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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
12
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Posted - 2014.01.07 04:40:00 -
[241] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Te more I think about the MSI the less I like it. It seems that it would be useful to a complex runner or ratter, but it is only good by the hundreds to make it impossible to chose the right one. From an offensive standpoint it is good as a trap, but then again it is too obvious a trap.
I'm not really sure the direction you were trying to go with this module. There is no direction. They obviously put about 5 minutes of thought into it and went "yeah sounds good we'll worry about balance later".
Every possible use of the scanning inhibitor that I can think of falls into at least one of these catagories; No advantage because both sides will do it, cheap traps, making isk grinding easier/safer, or causing unfun structure grinds for anyone who actually wants a decent fight. |
Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
224
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Posted - 2014.01.07 04:42:00 -
[242] - Quote
hmmm, might the MSI pave way for the often asked Cloaking Field deployable or ship module? Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW? No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too) |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
205
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Posted - 2014.01.07 04:43:00 -
[243] - Quote
Yeah, I'm not too fond of the MSI either. I could debate back and forth about it's questionable utility and who it'll empower the most (campers, probably) and whether it's needed, but...
I think this is just a big '**** you' to d-scan tools. Now the guys have to go away and work out a way to parse Overview output instead. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2714
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Posted - 2014.01.07 05:15:00 -
[244] - Quote
It's pointless trying to suggest improvements or variations, as the design for these is already set in stone. It's just a question of what extent they're going to screw with gameplay. Case in-point: Heavy assault cruisers, Marauders and the new Rapid light and heavy missile launchers. Constructive criticism will be conveniently ignored; negative feedback will be used as justification for ignoring the thread entirely... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2108
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Posted - 2014.01.07 05:18:00 -
[245] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:It's pointless trying to suggest improvements or variations, as the design for these is already set in stone. It's just a question of what extent they're going to screw with gameplay. Case in-point: Heavy assault cruisers, Marauders and the new Rapid light and heavy missile launchers. Constructive criticism will be conveniently ignored; negative feedback will be used as justification for ignoring the thread entirely... This is CCP Fozzie here, he tends to listen more. Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2714
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Posted - 2014.01.07 05:21:00 -
[246] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:This is CCP Fozzie here, he tends to listen more.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
45
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Posted - 2014.01.07 05:53:00 -
[247] - Quote
Powers Sa wrote:
This is massively broken if the radius is bigger than 15km (30km diameter), and the build cost needs to be that of like a t2 medium bubble or a t1 large bubble.
With a 30km radius you can hide capfleets and super fleets.
Isn't that kind of the point? Shaking up gameplay is fine as long as there's an effective counterbalance, and it seems like this structure's high visibility is an effective counter. The fact that you don't know what's in there when it's active makes it just as easy to turn it into a Mobile Bluffing Field. There's plenty of opportunities for shaking up traditional fleet gameplay by giving commanders more options, which is exactly what this will do.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8163
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Posted - 2014.01.07 05:54:00 -
[248] - Quote
An effective balance would be not being able to scan what's outside if you're inside, since nobody who's outside can scan what's inside. My EVE Videos |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
213
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:09:00 -
[249] - Quote
Morwennon wrote:The scan disruptor seems like it might be a bit overpowered in space that's behind an acceleration gate since there will be no way to get information on whatever it's concealing without exposing yourself whereas in normal space you'd have multiple options for dong so.
Whats stopping you from putting one in front of an acceleration gate and coming back with a bigger gang/better ships? Oh right nothing, your stupid. [Assuming they are placeable within deadspace which I personally hope so].
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Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
45
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:27:00 -
[250] - Quote
One of the common themes I'm seeing in this thread is about how bad this is going to be for w-space. I would like to reiterate the factoid that wormhole space, since its inception, was intended to be completely unscripted; the devs simply created it, and left it open to the players without any themes or instructions for how to do it. So it makes it harder to find pve cap fleets in them? Good! That means there's more ways for people to not only secure their home turf, just as it should be; the current system of pvp in w-space needs more ways for players to defend themselves, since it literally is the last frontier in this game; the more tools to defend your homestead, the better.
That being said, the MSI has ENORMOUS potential for abuse in factional warfare. While this has both advantages and disadvantages, if they end up allowing it in deadspace complexes it will be used more or less as a Mobile Bluffing Field or the like. I agree with a lot of people on this thread that introducing that kind of gameplay where you HAVE to warp into a specific area sets up the perfect formula for exploitation and ambush. That being said, I would love it if I was in the fleet using one, soooo.... |
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Sid Crash
47
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:39:00 -
[251] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:You should be very careful when introducing additional complexity onto a system that isn't quite understood in the first place, that you don't know the future to, and especially to a system that is way due for an overhaul.
In this case, intelligence (via local, dscan, probing) is definitely something that both the players and the devs know must eventually change. Do not try to fix a broken existing system or try to implement a bandaid solution without first completely understanding how intel should work on a massive scale because more often than not you will just end up causing more harm than good.
In short, create a vision of what you think the game would be like before implementing features like these, because it seems to me like this is another "wouldn't it be cool if" idea rather than what actually needs to be done.
Exactly this.
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Kane Fenris
NWP
140
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:41:00 -
[252] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello one and all. Happy New Year and I hope you all had an enjoyable and fulfilling holiday season.
Today we're updating Singularity with its first version of the patch that will one day become Rubicon 1.1. With it comes working versions of the first two of the 1.1 Mobile Structures that we're ready to tell you about and start collecting feedback for.
I'm very excited about both of these structures and the new creative options they will open up. Both were intentionally chosen to provide the most open ended gameplay possible.
The versions described in this thread and on SISI are of course still open to change, and it is very likely that a lot of specific stats will be tweaked between now and release. We will also be announcing more structures for 1.1 (and more for later patches) at later points.
Mobile Micro Jump Unit
This baby does pretty much exactly what the name implies. When active, any player within range can use it to launch their ship 100km in the direction that the ship is travelling when it makes use of the structure. It has no cooldown or limit to how many ships can use it at once, but it does have a spoolup time just like the MJD module. This spoolup duration is not modified by skills and on the base structure it is 12s (just like the MJD module would be if you could use it without skills).
The actual Micro Jump effect works exactly the same as the effect from the module. So during the cycle you go full throttle in one direction with a sig radius penalty, it can't be cancelled, scrams prevent you from jumping, it preserves speed on landing, all that jazz. You only have to be within range of the structure at the start of the micro jump cycle, not at the end. If the structure is destroyed during your spoolup time, you do not get launched. Since the MJU has no cooldown, a player can start the jump cycle from a Micro Jump module or MJU immediately after finishing a previous jump facilitated by a different MJU.
There will be mass restrictions to prevent caps and supercaps from using it, but everything else is fair game. We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked. Like I mentioned above, it is usable by everyone and is not restricted to the owner or their corp/fleet. This means you can feel free to use it to try and escape, but your assailant is also free to use it to follow you.
Like the Cynosaural Inhibitor and the Siphon Unit, the MJU is a single use structure. Once dropped it can never be scooped and will stay in space until it either gets blown up or finishes its lifetime.
Right now we have the base version set to 20s module activation time, 48hr lifetime, 25k ehp (mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of about 1m isk. Micro Jump spoolup is 12s like an unskilled MJD. Current activation range is 2500m but we're already leaning towards expanding that. It can't be placed within 20km of gates or stations, within 40km of a starbase tower or within 6km of another MJU.
Please note that the version on SISI at the time of this post has a few known defects, including the lack of a visual model in space and the lack of a working mass restriction.
im really dislike this one. i dont think this should exist without major disadvantages to the bs mjd like 20s+ spooltime or somewhat else of a disadvantage. |
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
56
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:44:00 -
[253] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote: The MSI is going to have a 5 mil build cost, so his idea is actually 250 million ISK per hour
250m isk/hour is quite cheap for making your c6 bearing ops so much safer
Which is why I'd only need to go to anomalies or data/relic sites(but no one does those anymore, or so I'm told). And with that 200mil of that is wasted. |
Demica Diaz
SE-1
119
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:51:00 -
[254] - Quote
I hope that in order to activate MMJ you dont need to right click it and then select from menu to jump. Add keybind or something that when you are in range you see Green Icon of that structure which tells you that you are in range. You hit "H" for example and your ship jumps. Otherwise its too cluncky and "old" EVE style which is slow and boring. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9965
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:52:00 -
[255] - Quote
yes let's give MJDs to every ship in the game short of caps (but let freighters have it!) because somebody at CCP found out about antimage, great idea
oh and a deployable that hides every ship within a ridiculously sized radius? brilliant! so not only do we effectively allow people to conceal an entire mining op or even a supercapital fleet by anchoring a disposable deployable, we give them another disposable deployable that lets them get to safety if the first plan didn't work out! immunity, woot~ Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-į |
stoicfaux
3800
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Posted - 2014.01.07 07:11:00 -
[256] - Quote
CCP Admiral Ackbar called, and he wants his MSI back, you ungrateful louts.
WASABI: -įWarp Speed Module
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1826
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Posted - 2014.01.07 08:22:00 -
[257] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:It's pointless trying to suggest improvements or variations, as the design for these is already set in stone. It's just a question of what extent they're going to screw with gameplay. Case in-point: Heavy assault cruisers, Marauders and the new Rapid light and heavy missile launchers. Constructive criticism will be conveniently ignored; negative feedback will be used as justification for ignoring the thread entirely... This is CCP Fozzie here, he tends to listen more.
Sorry, you are talking about some other dev. This guy's track record is the opposite of what you are thinking about. Fozzie trashed drone activity in PvE, completely ignoring the damage it would do. He was deeply involved in the destruction of the Marauder class.
He listens to no one. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1024
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Posted - 2014.01.07 08:53:00 -
[258] - Quote
The mobile Micro jump Unit: I do not like it. WHy? Because it takes away the SINGLE advantage that battleships had over other ship classes.
That again is HOMOGENIZATION! Its horrible for game and still ccp continue making everything the same.
If you gonna go trough with that, please think about boosting the MJD of the battleships a bit. These majestic class of ships deserve something for them!
The deployable Harry potter Invisibility Cloak is interesting, but maybe too powerful. IT affects the game so much that is fightening you touch that before dealign with local . "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1024
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Posted - 2014.01.07 08:58:00 -
[259] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Tasha Saisima wrote:More tools to help prey hide and get away. Not interested hahaha! suck it grief monkey! whats the matter, you don't like fair gameplay? I'm loving this change. My main gripe with this game is that hostiles take very few risks and have it easy, and I am very happy to see that changing.
Its not FAIR gameplay. Now you just have to not be afk to be 100% immune to ANY attempt to kill you in space.
Basically this HORRIBLE set of things leaves more and more GATES as the SINGLE place where PVP can happen.
No it is nto fair when one side will escape 100% of time even when the other side spends far far more skils, time and effort.
These set of changes in very few hours are makign me reconsidering if to continue payign for this game. .... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1024
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 09:03:00 -
[260] - Quote
Capqu wrote:so what you're saying is every ship gets a free module slot and in it is an mjd that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard Quote: It can't be placed within 20km of gates or stations, within 40km of a starbase tower or within 6km of another MJU.
probably the only reason it isn't completely and utterly stupid, but seriously whats the point? why put this in the game? if it's just for the cool another mobile thing i'm really not buying it
CCP is just making even more clear that they want to remove ALL pvp from open space liuek missions and belts. They are carebearing even more this stupid game that is loosing its identity!
It will be nearly impossible to get ANYONe inside a mission now.. really impossible. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1024
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Posted - 2014.01.07 09:17:00 -
[261] - Quote
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:Just had an interesting idea pop in my hide. Buy a few of MSI. Place few at random anywhere in a low or nullsec system. Everytime some1 or a know pirate pops in local , type "Marco!" in local...lol Now you can play hide and go seek in space... or catch me if you can.. lol So many possibilities to create mini games within game... Nice...
all that while you are cloaked in ANOTHER place :P "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4719
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Posted - 2014.01.07 09:19:00 -
[262] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: The desire to know everything simply means that many combat opportunities will pass without action because the scout wasn't in place to investigate the D-Scan ****** Upper in a reasonable time frame. Thus, while you expect overall combat to increase, I would expect it to actually decrease.
I'm surprised to see you say this, given you stated earlier you live in unknown space. If what you said is true, then the number of inhabitants in unknown space would be exactly zero. Given the fact that you don't have local and even if the direction scanner doesn't show any ships out there, there is no way to be 100% sure it is safe. There was even some hesitation to not include local with it was designed in fear no one would use, much less live in those types of conditions.
Guess what? Players did move in. It was literally a shot hear around the galaxy that said, "Yes, we will actually leave the safety of the POS shield to do things out there even though we are not 100% sure it is safe. So you see, players will use all tools and intel available to ensure their internet spaceships is safe. The issue is outside of unknown space they currently have access to the tools and intel to make sure their ship will be 100% safe.
Unknown space proved that players will still play the game, even if they can't get 100% on the safety. Perhaps I am crazy, but I believe it should not be possible to be 100% safe. While this direction scanner immobilizer thing is a bit rough right now, it is a step in the right direction to lower the safety below 100%. . |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1024
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Posted - 2014.01.07 09:29:00 -
[263] - Quote
I am impressed how people think the AOE cloak is the overpowered one. ITs power is nothing and illusory as long as local exist (because you know the location still).
ON the other hand the MDJ deployable its freaking powerful! Specially if marauders in bastion, cloaked ships, cyno ships all can use them.
To make that thing remotely balanced it needs to take more time in spool up.
Also the battleship ones now are nearly uselles and need a SERIOUS buff ( i think the one most people woudl rpefer woudl be allow a 50 km or a 150 km script .
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Jepp
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2014.01.07 09:32:00 -
[264] - Quote
Am I the only one that thinks that these new structures are completely stupid and would like them not to be added to the game? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1024
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Posted - 2014.01.07 09:52:00 -
[265] - Quote
Jepp wrote:Am I the only one that thinks that these new structures are completely stupid and would like them not to be added to the game?
No you are not.
Things somewhat based on them could be cool. But as they are presented they are really detrimental to several activities.
Deploying such powerful structures should take at LEAST 1 minute. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty.
34
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Posted - 2014.01.07 09:53:00 -
[266] - Quote
I am particularly concerned with the mobile dscan disruptor in FW plex.
Effectively this is like a cloaking device without any penalty. With cloak, at least there is penalty in scan resolution and sensor calibration delay. Although the opponent may decloak, you will have time to decide whether the engagement is 'fair' or lopsided.
With dscan disruptor, you effectively need to jump in blind - and your opponent can immediately react to you. Alternatively, you have a 'throwable scout alt' to check on each of the site prior to jumping into FW plex. So much for solo roaming...
Please consider some sort of 'penalty' for deploying the mobile dscan disruptor either: 1. pilot inside the dscan disruptor bubble cannot use dscan, or 2. similar to cloaking module, there is penalty to the scan resolution and some sort of targettng delay
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1024
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 09:56:00 -
[267] - Quote
Ciba Lexlulu wrote:I am particularly concerned with the mobile dscan disruptor in FW plex.
Effectively this is like a cloaking device without any penalty. With cloak, at least there is penalty in scan resolution and sensor calibration delay. Although the opponent may decloak, you will have time to decide whether the engagement is 'fair' or lopsided.
With dscan disruptor, you effectively need to jump in blind - and your opponent can immediately react to you. Alternatively, you have a 'throwable scout alt' to check on each of the site prior to jumping into FW plex. So much for solo roaming...
Please consider some sort of 'penalty' for deploying the mobile dscan disruptor either: 1. pilot inside the dscan disruptor bubble cannot use dscan, or 2. similar to cloaking module, there is penalty to the scan resolution and some sort of targettng delay
all these changes are made clearly nerfing solo (or near solo as I call a pair of pilots).
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
G'host Warrot
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
2
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Posted - 2014.01.07 09:58:00 -
[268] - Quote
Well, I can imagine some really nasty tactics with this "not"-so mighty tool for mining ops in Low-Sec.
Need definitly to try those out.
Afais they aren't senseless. They will block ur mighty D-Scan. Enough for me. Because atm. the only way to "counter" this tool, was Cloaking. And afaik u can go and take a look. So far looks fine for me.
Greetings |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1024
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 10:01:00 -
[269] - Quote
G'host Warrot wrote:Well, I can imagine some really nasty tactics with this "not"-so mighty tool for mining ops in Low-Sec.
Need definitly to try those out.
Afais they aren't senseless. They will block ur mighty D-Scan. Enough for me. Because atm. the only way to "counter" this tool, was Cloaking. And afaik u can go and take a look. So far looks fine for me.
Greetings
you mean you will warp into the very common group of Battlehsipw with smartbombs waiting for you?
or how will you get a marauder that cannot be scrammed in bastion but that can continuously deploy a hundred of those MJD devices and move like a mad untackable butterfly until you loose your patience? "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Delarian Rox
S. B. INC.
14
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Posted - 2014.01.07 10:09:00 -
[270] - Quote
Ok thets my ideas as a mostly solo\small scale pilot D-scan disruptors: - they should be at least 200m3 volume if not 300+ To prevent them from being spammed in anomalies, i know this whouldn't work, but still. - d scan disruptors should prevent mobile disruptors from being anchored in range or at least they should not cover them. We already have cloaky distors, thats enough. - there should be beacons on d-scan disruptors Because you can't afford to fit probes if you're alone or at least fit them fast enough with mobile depot, not to mention scanning will take time. - they shouldn't be placed in areas where you can't control your warp distance Any plex pockets come to mind immediately - they shouldn't be placed near wormholes same as gates i doubt that they should work in wormholes at all but thats mostly about entrances to w-space They act like gates so they should follow the same rules for the same reasons - they shouldn't work in w-space at all Wormholes about d-scan thats all it is. - they maybe should be targetable by NPCs and there fore they should have far less hitpoints to prevent their usage as a buffer If you want to prevent the whole system from being spammed with them and allow only strategical use NPCs sould pick them off ASAP, otherwise you can just jump into amomaly with your 2 days alt and place d-scan disruptor in each or at least in most of them.
MMJD: - there should be cooldown on MJD if MMJD used Otherwise BS can get 200 KM away in no time - cloaky ships shouldn't be able to use it, except covert cloaked ones But anyway it's broken because you can place it within 100 KM from anomaly and then MJD your Naga 200 KM away still being able to hit whatever will come to you, being nearly uncatchable by most of the ships. And it again can be done on a frigate. |
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