http://imgur.com/FcEf4iG

What about the other items in our overview??

Mobile Scan Inhibitor

This is the structure that caused the biggest buzz from the recent round of Chaos observation, time for some details that I think will significantly change how you all see it.

This structure prevents anything inside its 30km radius from appearing on either DScan or Probe Scans. The Scan Inhibitor structure itself however does show up on both types of scan and is very easy to probe down. So you can prevent people from knowing what is inside it but you can't prevent people from knowing that something is there.

Players inside the radius of the structure will be able to scan as normal, except that they won't get scan results from anything that's right beside them inside the radius.

Another single use structure, no rescooping.
Current stats are 60s activation time, 2h lifetime, 45k ehp (once again mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of ~5m isk.
Like I said above, it has an effective radius of 30km, meaning that even if you're at the edge, someone warping to 0 on it can still catch you fairly easily, especially with inties.
Can't be deployed within 75km of gates or stations, or within 40km of control towers. Can't be deployed within 40km of another scan inhibitor so you can overlap them but you can never use one to mask the central structure of another.

This is massively broken if the radius is bigger than 15km (30km diameter), and the build cost needs to be that of like a t2 medium bubble or a t1 large bubble.

With a 30km radius you can hide capfleets and super fleets.

So... Lets get the MMJU train going. jump, spool, jump, spool, jump, spool, jump and I'm 400km away in 48 seconds.

Hmm, I think the price point is maybe still a bit too low for the scan inhibitor, but single use is absolutely correct. Please do consider turning them into beacons, not just making them easy to probe.

The MJU is... wow, was not expecting that.

Can cloaked ships use the MJD unit and and if yes remain cloaked while doing so?

Can HICs use it with their bubble up?

Questions needing answers

Please stop ruining the game just for the sake of piling new stuff on it. Thank you.

In its current iteration the answer to both is yes. We're not dead set on keeping that as is however.

In its current iteration the answer to both is yes. We're not dead set on keeping that as is however.

Since the only way to tell what's at one of the scan inhibitors is to warp onto its grid, how is it going to interact with bubbles, particularly if you then surround it with smartbombing BS just inside the inhibitor's radius?

The Mobile Scan Inhibitor could be cool but it should be a permanent structure than can be re-scooped IMHO.

The mobile micro jump unit sound interesting at first but i struggle to think of any good application for it other than letting ships avoid bombing fleets.

Three suggestions that immediately come to mind:

• Disable scan disruption unit use inside deadspace. Being forced to warp at zero into deadspace without any way of knowing what you're warping into is stupid, stupid, stupid.

What does the MSI do to a cyno lit inside of it? How does that appear on the overview and/or dscan?

Balance issues aside, its great that CCP is adding new mechanics to the game with these mobile structures. A think a lot of the hate in this thread is not necessary aimed at the mechanics themselves but at potential exploitation. The other mobile structures are seeing a fair amount of use and haven't totally broken the game yet, so I hope that trend will continue with these.

Hopefully CCP will err on the side caution and release them in a more underpowered state, then buff them later if they are unusable.

Can MMJDs work while in a bubble?

Can MMJDs work while in a bubble?

If you could just make wormholes immune to most changes in Eve, that would greeeeeeeeeeeeat.

Mobile Scan Inhibitor

This structure prevents anything inside its 30km radius from appearing on either DScan or Probe Scans. The Scan Inhibitor structure itself however does show up on both types of scan and is very easy to probe down. So you can prevent people from knowing what is inside it but you can't prevent people from knowing that something is there.

Players inside the radius of the structure will be able to scan as normal, except that they won't get scan results from anything that's right beside them inside the radius.

What are the mass restrictions on mobile jump thingies? will freighters and titans be able to use them?

"We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked."
Please no. If i'm bumping a freighter for ransom, and he drops one of these, then peaces out, then this will be just like a GM moved him.

Why do you hate w-space so much?

When the only intel we have in a system is what our probes or d-scan tell us, having that probe or d-scan intel is really freaking important. Allowing one side to have it and the other not significantly alters the environment to favour the defender.

Now when we enter a system, we'll have to scan and visit each and every MSI before we can ascertain if anyone is even in the system, and that's whilst anyone actually in the system and shielded by them sees our probes all over the place.

This is a really bad idea for w-space.

The Scan Inhibitor structure itself however does show up on both types of scan and is very easy to probe down. So you can prevent people from knowing what is inside it but you can't prevent people from knowing that something is there.

Oh god that micro jump unit is gamebreaking! Havent we got enough in the cynojammer for gatecamps to be secure?

I know you guys want to add new stuff, but seriously in this case it seems like you add stuff just to add it. Have you considered the consequenses of these? We already got people refitting stabs when they get tackled in a carrier from the mobile units. We already got gatecamps you cannot kill because they are cynojammed and arent too lazy to scout. Now you add a cheap cyno jammer in the form of a module that lets you start micro jump when you see the cyno, and before the enemy jump through and manage to load and lock, you will be long gone - even if bubbled.

Everytime you add these structures, you add to the total number of people needed to catch lock down a single or a few ships. This will lead to nothing but larger gangs ganking even harder because you got to prepare for every single escape method the enemy would want. I thought you wanted to promote pvp, not do what you can to make people able to avoid it/leave when they commit to a fight.

Is there any chance of use seeing new ships like the asome SOE ones instead from some of the other factions? Would be way better than more gamebreaking structures!

I see a use for the scan inhibitor. Problem is its really hard to balance. Either you got to spam a system with it, or you can way too easy be probed down anyway. If you couldnt probe the structure it would be too powerful. This means its mainly gonna be for large groups capable of doing a lot in one system in a short time (large group in a wormhole for example). I see limited use for it, as it can end up doing the exact opposite of what its supposed to if you only place 1 or 2 in the system.

Now when we enter a system, we'll have to scan and visit each and every MSI before we can ascertain if anyone is even in the system, and that's whilst anyone actually in the system and shielded by them sees our probes all over the place.

12s spool up and bombs only have 10s flight time. It would be a tight squeeze when jumping.

Since the only way to tell what's at one of the scan inhibitors is to warp onto its grid, how is it going to interact with bubbles, particularly if you then surround it with smartbombing BS just inside the inhibitor's radius?

So... Lets get the MMJU train going. jump, spool, jump, spool, jump, spool, jump and I'm 400km away in 48 seconds.

so what you're saying is every ship gets a free module slot and in it is an mjd

The MSI has a lifetime of two measly hours. If you see one active, it's a safe bet that somebody is active and doing something at that location and it's something your scouts should be sniffing ASAP.

What are the mass restrictions on mobile jump thingies? will freighters and titans be able to use them?

"We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked."
Please no. If i'm bumping a freighter for ransom, and he drops one of these, then peaces out, then this will be just like a GM moved him.

Mobile Scan Inhibitor

Can't be deployed within 75km of gates or stations, or within 40km of control towers. Can't be deployed within 40km of another scan inhibitor so you can overlap them but you can never use one to mask the central structure of another.

By stations and control towers does this include the station/tower in a faction warfare plex? Because if so then this might not be as overpowered as it seems.

Why do you hate w-space so much?

When the only intel we have in a system is what our probes or d-scan tell us, having that probe or d-scan intel is really freaking important. Allowing one side to have it and the other not significantly alters the environment to favour the defender.

Now when we enter a system, we'll have to scan and visit each and every MSI before we can ascertain if anyone is even in the system, and that's whilst anyone actually in the system and shielded by them sees our probes all over the place.

This is a really bad idea for w-space.

The MSI has a lifetime of two measly hours. If you see one active, it's a safe bet that somebody is active and doing something at that location and it's something your scouts should be sniffing ASAP.

Its not "that" bad. We already scan / hunt with cloaky ships and we already hunt for cloaky ships. Scanning down the mobile unit doesn't seem hard, just get on grid and find out what they have. If anything, the opposing team just gave a time point away, someone was active in this hole max 2h ago. Any CovOps can find out in a minute whats inside, so there isn't much hiding.

Shoot it while it anchors? Bump him out of range before it onlines?

How do you plan to find out FAST at what site is the enemy farming fleet, when they are already at number 5 site for the evening, and at each site they have left an inhibitor?

And now add the smatbombing battleships in low sec you can no long see, that doesnt even need MJD anymore to get away. I have a really hard time seeing how these are gonna improve the game more than they damage it:-s

The mobile depot takes a minute to online, has barely any hitpoints in shields or armor and can't be used when reinforced. Maybe you need to prioritize your targets.

If you're warping gate to gate and it is 14AU+ warp, you wouldn't see them anyway.

If I've got this right this means that a nullsec ratter running anomalies can sit at 0 on an anomaly with scan inhib and MJU up, which blocks anyone that doesn't have a prober from doing anything to them and if something warps in you can just micro jump away.

Does the scan inhib block anomalies from showing up on the ship scanner?

If the railroad has already been laid, then yes. If you're laying it out yourself at each step, then it's 400 kilometers in 128 seconds. Placing a Mobile Micro Jump Unit requires waiting 20 seconds for it to come online before you can initiate the 12-second spool-up.
...

AND you NEED probes to find them, which gives the fleet ample opportunity to notice you and time to flee?

How do you plan to find out FAST at what site is the enemy farming fleet, when they are already at number 5 site for the evening, and at each site they have left an inhibitor?

I'd be interested to know if the Mobile Scan Inhibitor will be deployable inside of a Faction War plex.

I am really hoping this will not be the case, as easy probability and the ability to warp to the structure (once probed) at range to see who's hiding will not be applicable in the context of a plex. There would really be little counter except to suicide oneself inside to see who (and what) is there.

Hello sexy people.

Could we have clarification please if these scan inhibitors can be used inside of a faction warfare complex?

I sincerely hope they can, this has the potential to put an end to plex farmers. And that my friends is a very good thing.

yolo.

Please stop ruining the game just for the sake of piling new stuff on it. Thank you.

Just what we need, more things that make nullsec ratters even safer! Warp disruptors are now obsolete, better fit scrams on everything because even a ratting ship that doesn't fit an MJD can still MJD away!

Scrap both of these, they're ****.

What are the mass restrictions on mobile jump thingies? will freighters and titans be able to use them?

"We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked."
Please no. If i'm bumping a freighter for ransom, and he drops one of these, then peaces out, then this will be just like a GM moved him.

Mobile MJDs are one time use, NO SCOPING, and are going to cost ~5m. Per site. Carebears won't sacrifice their bottom line like that.

It still gives every single ship with 50m3 of cargo space available a free out against anything tackling them that doesn't have a scram fit.

MJDs or warp core stabs come with fitting compromises, this has no downside at all.

Terrible.

In its current iteration the answer to both is yes. We're not dead set on keeping that as is however.

Woo Rubicon brawler supremacy! Get tackled by a nano kiting ship in your brick tank 200m/s point blank blaster melee ship? Drop mobile MJD and peace out.

It still gives every single ship with 50m3 of cargo space available a free out against anything tackling them that doesn't have a scram fit.

MJDs or warp core stabs come with fitting compromises, this has no downside at all.

I wonder if you you will be able to stack activations. If already laid 6100m apart. You could pass thu multiple MMJU activating each as you go. Depending on speed you could easily activate 4-6 units before the first 12 second spoolup completed.

Gudpoast.

If you're going to post, make it quality. Explain your opinions. "Terrible" is not constructive, and is not at all helpful to making them not "terrible"

Thank you, do not come again.

1) Scatter 50 scan disruptors across the system.
2) Hide your fleet at one.
3) Laugh as the enemy probers spend an hour trying to figure out which.

If you manage to survive that long then yeah, but I doubt it you'll be on grid long enough for it to spool up. Also your ganker will be after you in a mere 12 seconds ;)

I'd love to see the scan inhibitor disable d-scan when people are within its area of effect.

CCP teaching noobs that learning how to dscan is not needed, just pop probes and do a 1 pass scan to find the fleet. Roll

If you could just make wormholes immune to most changes in Eve, that would greeeeeeeeeeeeat.

What is the size of these things?

Can you take 5 minutes in an interceptor to blanket every anom in your system with a MSI?

Is your intent really to require longpoint ships to do at least 1250 dps to stop a ship from anchoring a MMJD and jumping? Frigates should have to do over a thousand dps in order to not fight inside scram range?


MSI should be two way - people inside should not be able to dscan from outside. It should also not be deployable in deadspace, as to prevent wrecking FW.

The MMJD should have a longer online time, lower hp, and be large enough that carrying one in every single frigate you fly is not possible.

The number you are looking for is 781 dps, not 1250.

Can you take 5 minutes in an interceptor to blanket every anom in your system with a MSI?

Is your intent really to require longpoint ships to do at least 1250 dps to stop a ship from anchoring a MMJD and jumping? Frigates should have to do over a thousand dps in order to not fight inside scram range?


MSI should be two way - people inside should not be able to dscan from outside. It should also not be deployable in deadspace, as to prevent wrecking FW.

The MMJD should have a longer online time, lower hp, and be large enough that carrying one in every single frigate you fly is not possible. 1250 dps in order to fight outside scram range is way too high a bar.

50m3 - I highly doubt you could put that many into your intis cargohold

A free out? Scams would stop it, so any frigate or inty could stop it. It takes 20 seconds to anchor, it could be killed before that, or the person anchoring it could be bumped off and webbed. It could be killed in the 20 (32? If it's killed before spooling does the person still jump?) seconds before they jump.

It's about as much of a get-out-of-jail-free card as a cloak is, by which I mean it isn't.

This is what CCP are doing instead of fixing light missiles.

They may as well just introduce a deployable that gives +1 warp core strength to everything inside the radius because that's exactly what this thing does.

The scan inhibitor, on the other hand, will be broken in wormholes ...
All this is going to lead to is covops ships spamming fifty of these all over someone's wormhole, making sure they can't possibly check all of them before a fleet is formed up and ready. It's going to be hell getting information.

the scan inhibitor is 50 m3, a cheetah with 3 T2 expanders and 2 T1 rigs holds 548 m3. you'd have to risk your blockade runner to be a real nuisance.
also with 45k HP they will die to even small fleets quickly, like while the scanner is getting 100% on the rest of the inhibitors.

Of course you never know what is inside...

I think it will make some great content :D

Fozzie, get yourself an alt and join any decent wormhole alliance. Maybe that will let you know that your idea of the game is not always same with how people play and want to play it.

Its worse than that, since multiple longpoints dont stop it.

A much more reasonable set of stats for it would be a 45s online time and 5k ehp, similar to the mobile depot

No, it's fine as is. You won't be able to blast T1 frigs in a linked and snaked rlml Cerberus anymore, but brawling is viable again.

Adapt or die and all that

Mobile scan inhibitor should disable dscan or probe scanning for anyone inside of it.

You give away too much in w-space by dropping one of these in the first place for PvP... but this will make PVE extremely safe. Has this been factored into the thinking?

Mobile scan inhibitor should disable dscan or probe scanning for anyone inside of it.

The MMJD is alright I guess. Needs closer inspection. At first I thought it was a "get away free" tool for fleets but with the restrictions that you can't anchor two within 6 km, and it can't be used more than once every 20s renders that somewhat less overpowered.

The MMJD unit really, really needs to be suppressed by any and all forms of warp interdiction. Local bubbles, anchored bubbles, long points, scrams, infinite points - presently only two of these suppress the MMJD and all five should.

It's actually only one of out of five, the only way to prevent an MJD activation is a scram.

Or infinite point, right? Which is of course a bit of overkill but might happen from time to time.

Or am I wrong on that one?

Or infinite point, right? Which is of course a bit of overkill but might happen from time to time.

Or am I wrong on that one?

In terms of catching ratters, the MSI replaces a skill based mechanic (being good at scanning quickly) with a luck based mechanic (pick a random anom, and warp to it).


MSI spam could be fixed by reducing the duration of the module to something quite low, like 10 or 15 minutes.

If the fleet isn't densely packed, they can still extract a lot of ships with these.

Think in a 25 v 22 fight, where the 25 decide they are losing and want to extract. Presently, they order MJD ships to evacuate to sniper range and shoot at both anchored bubbles and ships with local bubbles, then they try to warp, and they lose 7 or 8 stragglers that get pointed or scrammed as well as the 7 or 8 ships that get popped while they are shooting bubbles and/or dictors, so perhaps 10 ships escape.

In the MMJD era, the 25 all drop MMJDs. 18 actually start anchoring (the others are too close), 13 MMJDUs actually anchor and 5 get popped while anchoring. Then those ships with local MJDs use those, then the remaining ships all use an MMJD if they can. Chances are you get a good 16 to 18 of your fleet out alive, a big increase on 10 in the first example.

I agree with your point that the MMJD should need more means of preventing its usage, but keep in mind again there is the fact that you have 12 second spool up for the MMJD, 8 seconds more until someone else can use it, and another 12 second spool up for that second person.

So assuming everyone activates as soon as they possibly can, that's 12 seconds it takes to jump for the first person on that MMJD, and 20 more seconds for the next person, 20 more for the next, etc.

Gudpoast.

If you're going to post, make it quality. Explain your opinions. "Terrible" is not constructive, and is not at all helpful to making them not "terrible"

Thank you, do not come again.

If a shiny new thing is far enough along in development to get an F&ID thread they will never ever scrap it so I look forward to having these new deployables forced on us with few (if any) changes.

With 2-3x the anchoring time and 10-20% the hp, the MMJD thing would be pretty balanced.

Seriously?

What a waste of dev resources.

I cant see the point in either of these modules.

I'm sure I have never seen the community clamouring for these ...ever.

pointless waste.

It clearly states in the OP that there is no limit on how many people can use it at once and no cooldown, so I'm not sure where you're getting this 20 second thing from.

Scramming the MMJD itself should block it from being used, that's my genius idea.

It is a game designer's job to be visionary.

-Liang

Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons.

Both of these things need to be stopped from being able to anchor in FW plexes, since they will essentially stop a lot of PvP from happening - who is seriously going to enter an FW plex that is scan cloaked unless they are in a blob?

so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.

MSI + Bubble = Nuli-T3 only effective combat probing platform.

just a thought:
wouldn't it be more interesting if the MMJD would define the direction where the ship will jump? Like a micro acceleration gate.

With 2-3x the anchoring time and 10-20% the hp, the MMJD thing would be pretty balanced.

so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.

I'm wondering to myself exactly which direction those ships will be propelled in?

Add-on: Do you really want to make the extremely expensive to fit Expanded Probe Launcher mandatory for intel gathering? Because that's what I'm getting here: an implication that solo pilots, or small gangs who cannot afford to sacrifice one of their pilots to tow around a scanning ship can... well... get dunked.

Yeah, with 3 times the anchoring time and 10% the ehp it will only require 41 dps to kill it before it anchors, making it pretty balanced*


*useless in every use case

yes I agree.

But even with one or more dedicated prober... It's not relevant:

I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times.

So will be something:

1. time consuming and boring like hell
2. uneffective
3. Even if you success (after 1-2 hours of pure boredom) in finding somoene will be most likely a trap and you'll run in a blob

Go figure...

People will give up even only to try.

so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.

I suppose what I am trying to say is I dont quite understand how this mobile structure helps him so much, if he warps away from it as you warp to it then you can see him on D. If he is cloaked then nothin matters.

Stop making more MJD related stuff, it's just another weird funky thing that'll be impossible to balance once ppl start using it in ways you never thought possible.

I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times.

where their nose points to?

How long do you think it will take you to lay down 100 MSI's around the system?

If you're assuming 20 seconds for him to warp - you're either talking about 10AU and up distance between them in a frigate.. right? Or did you mean shorter distances and assume he's in something more like a cruiser?

Well, first of all, to carry 100 MSIs, you're probably going to need an industrial (unless you plan to stop and pick up more from station), which warps as slow as a cruiser, so even a 1,000,000km warp (less than 1AU) will take you 21 seconds to warp. Let's also assume that you have bookmarks set up around the system, so you don't have to create your own.

So dropping off all 100 MSIs will take you, in that industrial, with perfect timing and no pit stops or bookmark making... half an hour to make.

That leaves you an hour and a half to do your ratting before they start disappearing and you need to replace them. Then you get to do it all over again with 100 more MSIs (at a cost of 100 million).

Meanwhile, the guy hunting you is using a covops (as fast as an interceptor) to find you. It takes less effort on his part to find you than it does for you to go through the motions of laying them all out.

Terrible idea is terrible.

I can't help but wonder where my Mobile Local Disruptor is. One could argue it would be more useful than the directional scanner thing.

This is massively broken if the radius is bigger than 15km (30km diameter), and the build cost needs to be that of like a t2 medium bubble or a t1 large bubble.

With a 30km radius you can hide capfleets and super fleets.

So you can hide cap and supercap fleets? That's the point I think. Too much information from D-Scan and local for too long makes you think that's a bad idea. Its a good idea actually. Dynamic combat > knowing everything and blueballing unless you know you have huge numerical superiority.

So you can hide cap and supercap fleets? That's the point I think. Too much information from D-Scan and local for too long makes you think that's a bad idea. Its a good idea actually. Dynamic combat > knowing everything and blueballing unless you know you have huge numerical superiority.