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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8578
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:53:00 -
[301] - Quote
You need a psychiatrist. My EVE Videos |
Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
112
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:58:00 -
[302] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Also seriously buff the Phoenix. Phoenix just got a buff by association - capital turret tracking nerf = missiles "seem" better.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8579
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:58:00 -
[303] - Quote
Or maybe you just need to graduate middle school. My EVE Videos |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
53
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:59:00 -
[304] - Quote
Inserting generic rage.
I also think this is unnecessary. It wasn't like people were jumping into dreads left and right before.
It would be nice to hear some of the thought process behind this dread nerf. What situation does this prevent? |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1060
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 16:11:00 -
[305] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote: I also think this is unnecessary. It wasn't like people were jumping into dreads left and right before.
Yes, its not like the largest coalition in the game was recently told to train everyone for naglafar. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16549
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:12:00 -
[306] - Quote
Well at least Fozzie has replied in this thread, regarding the badly thought out nerf and discussed changing it.
Edit: Damn sorry, wrong thread.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8581
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:18:00 -
[307] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Noxisia Arkana wrote: I also think this is unnecessary. It wasn't like people were jumping into dreads left and right before.
Yes, its not like the largest coalition in the game was recently told to train everyone for naglafar. I have it on good authority Mittens did so because of their stellar tracking. My EVE Videos |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
252
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:20:00 -
[308] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Khan Farshatok wrote:its an unfair boost unless you boost the passive boost of tracking links. Tracking links are receiving the same boost as tracking computers in 1.1, by gaining the ability to overheat.
Fozzie, do you or your friends somehow get a cut from the sale of nanite paste?
If you want to refer to something as a 'boost', but one that requires yet even more micromanagement, introduces even more damage to modules (can't overheat more modules without damaging all of them even more) in return for, at best, marginal short-term gains in most cases, and pay for it with reduced overall performance, your definition of the word 'boost' needs some rather serious revision.
May I refer you to your nearest dictionary, either paper or electronic, as well as a thesaurus - they really will help.
You can refer to it as 'a revision that suits MY playstyle', but to refer to this as a 'boost' just shows what an idiot you are when utilizing words to accurately describe something.
A 'boost' would be to leave a module's current performance 'as-is', but would introduce the option of overheating. If you want to limit the effectiveness of overheating, fine, but stop falling in love with 15%, 20%, etc., as the effective enhancement.
You're just being sloppy and lazy. What you're doing is figuring out what you want the end result to be, dividing by 0.85, and, hey, that's the new normal strength of 'Module X!' To hell with anyone who doesn't have Thermodynamics V trained, or have easy access to limitless supplies of nanite paste or a station with repair facilities!
Are you guys truly so desperate for Skill Point sinks that you'll make level V in three existing skills almost mandatory?
You really do have a limited imagination, don't you.
Also, you STILL haven't explained what was SO awful with overheated tracking modules that you felt it was necessary to further reduce a Dread's ability to hit anything smaller and more mobile than a station.
Additionally, get off your butts and FIX THE PHOENIX! I don't even fly Caldari capitals, and I know it needs to be done, could be easily done, could be quickly done, even if only to bring it slightly more in-line with other Dreads.
Oh, wait, that's going to have to wait until you get around to 'fixing' webs and painters, right? Can't rush into things, now, can we?
Unlike the bullshit work you're doing with drones.
Between these announcements and previous changes, you really HAVE shown that you truly don't give a damn about increasing Eve's playerbase, do you? Instead of making things more balanced, understandable, intuitive, and streamlined for better server performance, you're now introducing even more variables that will further increase server load.
Go get a cup of coffee, and spend ten minutes thinking about what I've written.
I'd really like to hear your thoughts. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
277
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:25:00 -
[309] - Quote
Isn't this going to add to the lag, swapping burnt out modules for fresh ones? |
Faxanadu Phantasm
On Par
0
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:26:00 -
[310] - Quote
As much as I dont really LIKE this change, it does actually allow for more tracking than before, IF you overheat... and you can do that as long as you want IF you accept the burden associated with that (lots of paste/spare modules)
So i mean, if we really want the extra tracking then ya, I guess we need to overheat
This expands on this idea of dynamic fitting mid-fight i guess
I guess thats good, it creates more degrees of separation between ok pilots and great pilots
but like... most pilots are not legendary pilots so it would probably be better if the change was made in a way that wasnt presented as a slap in the face to most people who dont see the change the way it was envisioned.
People are emotional and emotional people do silly things, like play other games..
So my constructive criticism would be...
Yes the people only think they know what they want, so you should give them what they need and not what they want.... BUT in doing so, please put some extra thought into how that can be achieved without alienating us? We love you, you should love us... dont slap us in the face and tell us its cake. or just ignore us... something is wrong if its come to that!
I believe that if a change towards a desired ideal cannot be made in a way that is widely accepted by the community as a positive change, then the end result certainly was not achieved with an appropriate means. (Whether the change improves game is a separate issue)
This means you need to go back to the drawing board, please. Give us a new module or new mechanic that still produces the desired result instead...
Give us something that we can be excited about that also moves the game in the direction you want it to go. |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8583
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 16:30:00 -
[311] - Quote
Faxanadu Phantasm wrote:As much as I dont really LIKE this change, it does actually allow for more tracking than before, IF you overheat... and you can do that as long as you want IF you accept the burden associated with that (lots of paste/spare modules) Really? Did you see the part where you have to overheat two tracking computers just to get the same effect as before?
My EVE Videos |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1484
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:30:00 -
[312] - Quote
I can't wait till they actually get to the cap/ supercap rebalance. This rage **** is hilarious. |
Faxanadu Phantasm
On Par
0
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:36:00 -
[313] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Faxanadu Phantasm wrote:As much as I dont really LIKE this change, it does actually allow for more tracking than before, IF you overheat... and you can do that as long as you want IF you accept the burden associated with that (lots of paste/spare modules) Really? Did you see the part where you have to overheat two tracking computers just to get the same effect as before?
I dunno.. what is it like 1.5%? yea its negligible but more is more and like i said, if you want more... you do more..
its whatever man
More effort more result
wholely negligible either way you go....
Really the biggest effect the change will have is the magnitude of the slap in the face the community receives as far as im concerned... |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1092
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Posted - 2014.01.17 16:38:00 -
[314] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I can't wait till they actually get to the cap/ supercap rebalance. This rage **** is hilarious.
It'll be hilarious when the optimal and falloff of capital blasters is halved. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
54
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Posted - 2014.01.17 17:05:00 -
[315] - Quote
Forget it.
The dreads have a niche role. This further reduces the roles they would be useful for. |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
119
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Posted - 2014.01.17 17:22:00 -
[316] - Quote
Well guys, it's a 5% decrease, not 10% or more...
If you want to hit a subcap with that, you're probably already webbing and target painting it, which means you wouldn't notice much of a difference, unless you're moving or exchanging shots with another cap, and one of you or both are moving. It's not like they just got tracking-disrupted.
I think capital escalations wil still be very viable. Just remember to web and paint, as you should be doing already.
Yeah it's not a very welcome change, but I don't think it's the end of the world. |
drencia holcolm
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:07:00 -
[317] - Quote
RESIGN NOW FOZZIE!!! |
Aleksander Calt
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
0
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:27:00 -
[318] - Quote
I will just leave this here: you can always increase both the signature radius of all capitals by 5% and the signature resolution (and explosion radius) of all xl weapons.
This way, keeping the current tracking value, dreads wont be able to track subcapitals, just as fozzie seems to want, but will be able to actually benefit from the new overheated tcs when trying to shoot other capitals while not being worse at that without two overheated tcs. Side effect is that any weapon smaller than xl will be hitting even easier capital ships but I dont think they ever had trouble with that. That aside, if you really dont mind missing subcaps this could be the way to go. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9019
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:32:00 -
[319] - Quote
Ok I'm done my meetings for the day, time for a longer reply post.
Firstly, thanks to everyone who has posted constructive feedback in this thread so far.
I also want to quickly clear up a few misunderstandings that I have been seeing in this thread, as well as on twitter and in evemails from some of you.
This proposal is for a 5% reduction in capital gun tracking. This is not reducing the tracking to 5% of their current value, which would be a 95% reduction and would indeed be a terrible idea. To make sure we're on the same page, here's the numbers (formatting isn't great, but I expect you can see the point): typeNameOldTrackingSpeedtrackingSpeed Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I0.00405120.00384864 Dual Giga Modal Laser I0.0022968750.002182031 Dual Giga Pulse Laser I0.00405120.00384864 Dual Giga Beam Laser I0.0022968750.002182031 Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I0.00460.00437 Dual 1000mm 'Scout' Accelerator Cannon0.0019250.00182875 Dual 1000mm Railgun I0.0019250.00182875 Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I0.00460.00437 Quad 3500mm Gallium Cannon0.00180.00171 6x2500mm Heavy Gallium Repeating Cannon0.004370.0041515 6x2500mm Repeating Cannon I0.004370.0041515 Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I0.00180.00171
Secondly, we have never suggested nerfing Tracking Computers along with this change. Tracking Computers are receiving the ability to overheat and are not losing any of their base strength, which is a straight buff. I think some people have been confused by the similarity in names between Tracking Disruptors (which are receiving a decrease to base strength in this proposal) and Tracking Computers, which will always be as good or better than before.
Thirdly, for anyone who hasn't noticed the update to the EW thread; we are not going forward with the originally proposed reduction in the base strength of Target Painters. They will keep the same base values and get the ability to overheat after Rubicon 1.1.
Now, let's talk about this change in particular. I can understand why some people feel this change is coming out of left field, especially if their particular playstyle happens to be in areas where dreadnaughts are not seen as often. The initial trigger for thinking about making this change came from concerns raised about how the Tracking Computer buff would affect the area of the game where tracking fit Dreadnaughts are at their strongest, in wormholes. This caused us to do some thinking about the specific interactions at play, and we determined that although the effect of the overheating change would be fairly minor, we could play it safe and make a fairly minor maintenance change to capital turrets at the same time.
That's exactly what this change is, a minor maintenance tweak. Making small, contained changes more rapidly is a very good method of balancing as you can fine tune attributes into the best possible state and watch the results without as many secondary effects. This change (as well as several of the other balance changes I announced yesterday) fall into that small contained iteration category.
It appears there are many people who seem to believe that this 5% will somehow crush Dreadnaughts or significantly decrease their use. I disagree, but I also welcome everyone to test these changes for themselves when SISI is next updated. As proven many times before, we are always open to adjusting or canceling proposed changes based on good solid feedback.
I think after people try out these changes they'll find that their old uses for Dreadnaughts all continue to apply. There is no magical threshold that 5% tracking can cross to make Dreads useless. There's no hidden trap within the tracking formula that makes the turrets in the game act differently than an informed player should expect. This will simply be a small (generally less than 5%) reduction in average applied damage when not using heated TCs, and a small increase in average applied damage for the players who push the limits with their tactics and fittings.
If you could blap webbed players with your Moros before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could farm sleeper escalations using supported dreads before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could burn down a bounced supercarrier with your dread hotdrop before you'll still be able to do it. If you could alpha an orbiting Archon with your Omegafleet Nags before you'll still be able to do it. If you could hit those Omegafleet Nags with your titan guns before you'll still be able to do it. If you could mine veldspar with your Revelation before you'll still be able to do it.
I think you will all find that this change results in pretty much the same gameplay as before, and only serves as a very slight reduction in total effectiveness compared to the status quo. If you discover differently on SISI or potentially later on TQ, let us know in a calm and reasoned manner and we'll always be very open to reevaluating these kinds of attributes. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
492
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:36:00 -
[320] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: If you could blap webbed players with your Moros before, you'll still be able to do it.
Fix when? |
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Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
226
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:37:00 -
[321] - Quote
I love how people still arent getting the point that you can keep a stack of tracking computers in your dread, constantly overheat them, and then swap them out when they burn. Repair cost isn't much compared to guzzling strong drop/frentix all day, and what you end up is a net boost to tracking dreads.
Titans wont notice the change since everything that their guns actually damage is either a capital or a structure; the state of titans is an easy place to build your complaint around but the turth is that titan guns have the same level of uselessness as before.
(Sorry wormholers, the 5% nerf to tracking is far less important than the 5% nerf to null bounties, so you get screwed even less than the rest of us.) |
Isbariya
Thundercats The Initiative.
78
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:38:00 -
[322] - Quote
While you're at it, care to buff the phoenix a bit or capital missles in general ? |
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
33
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:40:00 -
[323] - Quote
drencia holcolm wrote:RESIGN NOW FOZZIE!!!
This ten-day-old account who recently left Khan Farshatok's corporation is surely an accurate representation of the player base's opinions, and not a sock puppet. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
867
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:41:00 -
[324] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: If you could blap webbed players with your Moros before, you'll still be able to do it.
Yeah sadly :D
Also I can understand why they didn't change Dread blapping yet... See how much reaction a -5% reduction AND the possibility to buff if to +2% for a limited time have made players react.
If they happened to nerf dread blapping... Oh my god, people would KILLTHEMSELVES ! Yet it wouldn't be worse than a Phoenix I'm signature tanking !
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Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
341
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:42:00 -
[325] - Quote
Isbariya wrote:While you're at it, care to buff the phoenix a bit or capital missles in general ? This is a buff for the Phoenix--the Phoenix isn't getting its tracking nerfed. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2609
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:51:00 -
[326] - Quote
"If you could mine veldspar with your Revelation before you'll still be able to do it."
Excellent http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
drencia holcolm
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:55:00 -
[327] - Quote
Aebe Amraen wrote:drencia holcolm wrote:RESIGN NOW FOZZIE!!! This ten-day-old account who recently left Khan Farshatok's corporation is surely an accurate representation of the player base's opinions, and not a sock puppet.
i would like to point out that i am indeed a 10day char with 10mil sp. I have done the impossible and have hacked eve to the point that im making 1mil sp a day. I am the super eve player.
P.S. RESIGNATION LETTER NOT FOZZIE. |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
226
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:55:00 -
[328] - Quote
Isbariya wrote:While you're at it, care to buff the phoenix a bit or capital missles in general ?
I suspect the plan is to wait until the other dreads get rebalanced in general. Easier to just do them all at once instead of applying a half-assed fix right now and having to reevaluate it in a few months when the capital changes come about.
In any case, it's not an easy fix and should be considered carefully instead of something that's not thought through well. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8590
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:56:00 -
[329] - Quote
So 3% more dps with two overheated TCs was too alarming to allow unchecked, yet 4.6% nerf to base DPS before TC overheat and requiring two overheated TCs just to mitigate that loss isn't a big deal.
Uh... okay.
Have fun dealing with refit lag in your next null battle. My EVE Videos |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8590
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:58:00 -
[330] - Quote
Aebe Amraen wrote:drencia holcolm wrote:RESIGN NOW FOZZIE!!! This ten-day-old account who recently left Khan Farshatok's corporation is surely an accurate representation of the player base's opinions, and not a sock puppet. Closer to 10 months. My EVE Videos |
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