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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
78
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Posted - 2014.01.18 10:32:00 -
[361] - Quote
double post, sry |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1093
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 10:58:00 -
[362] - Quote
All this whining over a piddling little 5% tracking cut? The tears when the Moros gets rebalanced are going to be amazing. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16552
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 13:08:00 -
[363] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Now, let's talk about this change in particular. I can understand why some people feel this change is coming out of left field, especially if their particular playstyle happens to be in areas where dreadnaughts are not seen as often. The initial trigger for thinking about making this change came from concerns raised about how the Tracking Computer buff would affect the area of the game where tracking fit Dreadnaughts are at their strongest, in wormhole PVP. This caused us to do some thinking about the specific interactions at play, and we determined that although the effect of the overheating change would be fairly minor, we could play it safe and make a fairly minor maintenance change to capital turrets at the same time.
That's exactly what this change is, a minor maintenance tweak. Making small, contained changes more rapidly is a very good method of balancing as you can fine tune attributes into the best possible state and watch the results without as many secondary effects. This change (as well as several of the other balance changes I announced yesterday) fall into that small contained iteration category.
It appears there are many people who seem to believe that this 5% will somehow crush Dreadnaughts or significantly decrease their use. I disagree, but I also welcome everyone to test these changes for themselves when SISI is next updated. As proven many times before, we are always open to adjusting or canceling proposed changes based on good solid feedback. So you nerfed tracking, because of some one off situations that could occur in WH space? Nice.
Let's face it, this 'minor maintenance' (lol) change will stick. I mean, you could have commented on the graphs and figures others have shown, but why bother? You have no intention of reversing it.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
126
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Posted - 2014.01.18 13:24:00 -
[364] - Quote
Can we get a 5% Reduction in Dread build mats too?
If we're getting 5% less damage application on a ship that only exists to do damage, might as well have to pay 5% Less for it too.
That sounds balanced to me. The Law is a point of View |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
258
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 14:05:00 -
[365] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Black Garius wrote:Fozzie you are a NOOB, go and play Lego instead.
In the other hand I like to congratulate to you for successfully NERFING the subscriber numbers AGAIN. Anyone that really LEAVES because of these TINY changes is really a coward or a baby.
Rather that you are the frog placed into a pot of water, which is slowly heated, until it boils you to death.
Others realize that the pot is starting to boil, and jump out before it kills them.
The kind of thinking that observes a situational possibility, but responds with a global, and, using his own posts, 'unnecessary' (hey, if it won't have any effect, it's, by definition, unnecessary) change, instead of altering the details of that specific situation, is (a) sloppy, (b) lazy, or (c) hiding something, none of which bode well for future efforts.
A 'mere 5% reduction' in DPS is most definitely NOT insignificant - would any pilot who flies, say, MARAUDERS, BATTLESHIPS, and TIER 3 BATTLECRUISERS, sit idly by and support a change exactly like this one?
You know damned good and well that wouldn't happen, so, why should Dread and Titan pilots blindly accept it?
As for the Dreadnaught Balance Pass, when it occurs, anyone who flies them understands that the Moros is unbalanced - that's why all fleet doctrines state that your FC's would prefer Moros>Nag>Rev>Bomber>Dictor>Velator>Phoenix.
So, yeah, we know that the ride will end, and we'll probably want to train into something else (I REALLY hope it's not the Phoenix). |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
24
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Posted - 2014.01.18 14:21:00 -
[366] - Quote
Goon story, bro. Again. |
May Ke
Watch It Burn The House Of Cards.
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:09:00 -
[367] - Quote
CCP:
You suck. Nerf Nerf Nerf Nerf Nerf. Tweak Tweak Tweak. Balance Balance Balance.
First: this is a terrible change. YET ANOTHER NERF TO CAPITALS.
Can you please do some EXPANDING in your next EXPANSION.
More players will leave after this latest failure.
P.S: You Suck.
Starcraft, anyone? EVE is being bummed by CCP. Who? Me? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 16:24:00 -
[368] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
If you could blap webbed players with your Moros before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could farm sleeper escalations using supported dreads before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could burn down a bounced supercarrier with your dread hotdrop before you'll still be able to do it. If you could alpha an orbiting Archon with your Omegafleet Nags before you'll still be able to do it. If you could hit those Omegafleet Nags with your titan guns before you'll still be able to do it. If you could mine veldspar with your Revelation before you'll still be able to do it.
I think you will all find that this change results in pretty much the same gameplay as before, and only serves as a very slight reduction in total effectiveness compared to the status quo. If you discover differently on SISI or potentially later on TQ, let us know in a calm and reasoned manner and we'll always be very open to reevaluating these kinds of attributes.
Did you intend to sound like you were promoting Obamacare? Because it sounds like you are intentionally mimicking the stunning success of that amazing plan. It does not increase confidence amongst your US players.
Why can't you put your analysis up front when you announce a change?
1. Here is the problem we have identified... This is our long-term goal or vision we are trying to achieve... 2. Here is our proposed solution... With charts, graphs, and rational argument. 3. Please give us constructive feedback. 4. Profit???
I am convinced that CCP is trying to reignite interest in the game by irritating as many people as possible. These collective changes are designed to recreate the stunning success of Incarna and end the stagnation in Eve. Well played, CCP. Well played. |
Baali Tekitsu
Herrscher der Zeit Test Alliance Please Ignore
612
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:05:00 -
[369] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
If you could blap webbed players with your Moros before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could farm sleeper escalations using supported dreads before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could burn down a bounced supercarrier with your dread hotdrop before you'll still be able to do it. If you could alpha an orbiting Archon with your Omegafleet Nags before you'll still be able to do it. If you could hit those Omegafleet Nags with your titan guns before you'll still be able to do it. If you could mine veldspar with your Revelation before you'll still be able to do it.
I think you will all find that this change results in pretty much the same gameplay as before, and only serves as a very slight reduction in total effectiveness compared to the status quo. If you discover differently on SISI or potentially later on TQ, let us know in a calm and reasoned manner and we'll always be very open to reevaluating these kinds of attributes.
Did you intend to sound like you were promoting Obamacare? Because it sounds like you are intentionally mimicking the stunning success of that amazing plan. It does not increase confidence amongst your US players. Why can't you put your analysis up front when you announce a change? 1. Here is the problem we have identified... This is our long-term goal or vision we are trying to achieve... 2. Here is our proposed solution... With charts, graphs, and rational argument. 3. Please give us constructive feedback. 4. Profit???
How about:
1.Make an almost meaningless tweak which in the end changes exactly nothing 2.See people go maad 3.harvest tears 4. repeat
And by god dont touch anything that really needs fixing because :effort: RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE |
Baali Tekitsu
Herrscher der Zeit Test Alliance Please Ignore
612
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:09:00 -
[370] - Quote
Also going by their current approach to "balancing" they should just take all dreads and nerf them completely beyond being **** to Phoenix level. See rapid light missiles. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE |
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sabastyian
Death By Design
17
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:26:00 -
[371] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ok I'm done my meetings for the day, time for a longer reply post. This proposal is for a 5% reduction in capital gun tracking.
Ok, so you think that just because we can overheat module means we want to overheat it and carry spares around just to get our pre-patch tracking? The Revelation and some moros fits wont have that option, the only dread that will really feel a boost is an armor nag with 2 sebo 2 tc 2 heavy cap booster. A rev has 1 tc, so it's tracking is still going to drop despite your plan to "make them better" In some hot drops or even capital fights, you aren't in range of a carrier and are to close to drop a mobile depot to refit, so overheating your modules for XXXXXX isnt an option. As a Titan pilot you may not want to carry 2-3 sets of faction tracking computers just so you can burn set after set to get your pre-patch tracking. Maybe reconsider your general overheating ideas to certain modules that the players never even wanted to get the overheat bonus. Sensor boosters, tracking computers and cap boosters, as a dread you now to overheat 2/3 of these just to continue shooting and to get your pre-patch tracking back, the amount of heat damage will go up and the time a pilot can overheat to get his pre-patch stats will decrease. As a dreadnought pilot, I really dont want to have to carry 2-3 sets of Cap booster, tracking computers and sensor boosters just incase we have a fight that lasts longer then 5-10 minutes.
|
Farnie Podiene
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:51:00 -
[372] - Quote
This is ******* BULLSHIT!!!!! |
Farnie Podiene
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:52:00 -
[373] - Quote
Frantico wrote:Oh joy making my titan even more ****. will i even be able to track a station now ? nope |
Angrod Losshelin
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
45
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 19:06:00 -
[374] - Quote
Lets review what has been stated previously:
Travasty Space wrote:Mr Hyde113 wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: If you could blap webbed players with your Moros before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could farm sleeper escalations using supported dreads before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could burn down a bounced supercarrier with your dread hotdrop before you'll still be able to do it. If you could alpha an orbiting Archon with your Omegafleet Nags before you'll still be able to do it. If you could hit those Omegafleet Nags with your titan guns before you'll still be able to do it. If you could mine veldspar with your Revelation before you'll still be able to do it.
I think you will all find that this change results in pretty much the same gameplay as before, and only serves as a very slight reduction in total effectiveness compared to the status quo. If you discover differently on SISI or potentially later on TQ, let us know in a calm and reasoned manner and we'll always be very open to reevaluating these kinds of attributes.
Then why bother at all? You're argument here counters itself. If a 5% nerf doesn't stop dreads from doing anything they currently do, then don't do it. I don't see any point in having even a 5% nerf to a ship that is expensive and puts itself at risk to fulfill its role Or you can consider the argument that they are happy with the effort it takes to dread blap stuff in wormholes and thus are nerfing dread guns to BALANCE the buff to tracking computer. The your numbers show that the nerf doesn't harm dreads and it isn't hard to carry a stack of tracking computers and and a couple mobile depots for when you don't have a carrier right there to swap them and you can have BETTER tracking then before. Your argument simply boils down to "OMG YOUR ARE NERFING MY THING! STOP IT!" instead of providing any good reason to not do so.
This nerf is directly the result of another nerf. Tracking computers getting heat, this is odd because heat is designed to make stuff better at the risk of destroying the module. So, instead of balancing the module's heat, you will nerf the most expensive ship that could possibly benifit from it. I am in complete agreement with the statment "Then why bother at all? You're argument here counters itself. If a 5% nerf doesn't stop dreads from doing anything they currently do, then don't do it. I don't see any point in having even a 5% nerf to a ship that is expensive and puts itself at risk to fulfill its role"
Quite simply yes, our argument boils down to dont nerf stuff with no logical reason. There is no proof that the nerf needs to be done, we have not been provided any substantial evidence that this nerf is required in any fashion.
We would be happy with any number that atleast point in a logical direction. You are correct, there is no evidence to not nerf the ship. There is only logic, simple as don't **** **** up without a good reason. Give me a good reason and most of us nay sayers will be happy.
It is a simple question that needs answers. I love climbing into holes! I train New Bro's in WormHoles! Check out my PodCast: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3704128#post3704128
Also checkout these other PodCasts: http://evepodcasts.com/ |
Angrod Losshelin
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
45
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 19:09:00 -
[375] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Black Garius wrote:Fozzie you are a NOOB, go and play Lego instead.
In the other hand I like to congratulate to you for successfully NERFING the subscriber numbers AGAIN. Anyone that really LEAVES because of these TINY changes is really a coward or a baby.
Na, most peeps will not leave over this change. However, alot of small issues like this take the fun out of flying ships that we work months and months to train. They are nerfing the reasons to get into capital ships, over and over. I love climbing into holes! I train New Bro's in WormHoles! Check out my PodCast: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3704128#post3704128
Also checkout these other PodCasts: http://evepodcasts.com/ |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2631
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 19:42:00 -
[376] - Quote
SIgh CCP.
Stop screwing up my capitals. I dont pay subs each month for interceptors online. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith
315
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 20:57:00 -
[377] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:If you could blap webbed players with your Moros before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could farm sleeper escalations using supported dreads before, you'll still be able to do it. If you could burn down a bounced supercarrier with your dread hotdrop before you'll still be able to do it. If you could alpha an orbiting Archon with your Omegafleet Nags before you'll still be able to do it. If you could hit those Omegafleet Nags with your titan guns before you'll still be able to do it. If you could mine veldspar with your Revelation before you'll still be able to do it.
So you admit that this is just another bad pointless Rubicon 1.1 change for the sake of change? Well at least you're more honest than CCP Soniclover.
|
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
184
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 00:13:00 -
[378] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Tasha Saisima wrote:Agreed. If it won't make a huge difference, then why waste time doing it? On the subject of time "wasted", these changes to one base attribute (on just 6 items in this case) are extremely fast to implement and test. This did not take time away from any other feature designs.
So researching and testing for such a pointless change doesnt take time? Maybe thats the reason some of your "balancing" doesnt work? |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
129
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 00:55:00 -
[379] - Quote
It's not quite so simple as just carry extra TC's. Heat spreads through the entire middle rack, not just the TC's. OH'ing the TC's will not only burn out the TC's, but also possibly the cap injector's and so forth.
The Law is a point of View |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
315
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:10:00 -
[380] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Tasha Saisima wrote:Agreed. If it won't make a huge difference, then why waste time doing it? On the subject of time "wasted", these changes to one base attribute (on just 6 items in this case) are extremely fast to implement and test. This did not take time away from any other feature designs. So researching and testing for such a pointless change doesnt take time? Maybe thats the reason some of your "balancing" doesnt work?
Precisely. You don't exactly inspire confidence with your pronouncements. I am convinced that CCP is trying to reignite interest in the game by irritating as many people as possible. These collective changes are designed to recreate the stunning success of Incarna and end the stagnation in Eve. Well played, CCP. Well played. |
|
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
267
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:55:00 -
[381] - Quote
sabastyian wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Ok I'm done my meetings for the day, time for a longer reply post. This proposal is for a 5% reduction in capital gun tracking. Ok, so you think that just because we can overheat module means we want to overheat it and carry spares around just to get our pre-patch tracking? The Revelation and some moros fits wont have that option, the only dread that will really feel a boost is an armor nag with 2 sebo 2 tc 2 heavy cap booster. A rev has 1 tc, so it's tracking is still going to drop despite your plan to "make them better" In some hot drops or even capital fights, you aren't in range of a carrier and are to close to drop a mobile depot to refit, so overheating your modules for XXXXXX isnt an option. As a Titan pilot you may not want to carry 2-3 sets of faction tracking computers just so you can burn set after set to get your pre-patch tracking. Maybe reconsider your general overheating ideas to certain modules that the players never even wanted to get the overheat bonus. Sensor boosters, tracking computers and cap boosters, as a dread you now to overheat 2/3 of these just to continue shooting and to get your pre-patch tracking back, the amount of heat damage will go up and the time a pilot can overheat to get his pre-patch stats will decrease. As a dreadnought pilot, I really dont want to have to carry 2-3 sets of Cap booster, tracking computers and sensor boosters just incase we have a fight that lasts longer then 5-10 minutes.
This rather neatly sums up much of what is wrong with this proposal, specifically, and much of the proposals in this patch, in general.
It also indirectly points out that, hey, isn't CFC's Naglfar fit exactly like he describes? A quick check of the killboards for a Goonswarm Naglfar lossmail confirms that, why, yes, indeed, that IS precisely the fit of a CFC Naglfar.
Kinda makes one just a bit curious, does it not? |
Arcos Vandymion
The Advent of Faith Standing United.
25
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 14:21:00 -
[382] - Quote
mr passie wrote:Diivil wrote:What about giving a small buff to the worst tracking ammo to compensate though? I mean tremor from an artillery Nag doesn't currently even track an Archon perfectly if they are moving in the right direction and I can't see that being intended. Or just rather fix all of the ammo that have insane tracking penalties to be at least worth considering. wtb nag gun that fires tremor
Would be about damn time - still waiting for that 1GN Nano-Moros
|
Bosquit
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
54
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 13:12:00 -
[383] - Quote
Ok so this change isn't game breaking, or ruins capitals, but it does add to the continuous nerf of dread tracking, and it's stacking up (capital tracking is sort of at an alright place, overheating does not give a straight bonus, it gives a possible bonus for a short amount of time). My problem is how ill thought out the balancing is. Isn't the balancing of overheating things the fact that the modules eventually burn out, the balance is built into the mechanic. So at most you get a small bonus to something for a short amount of time and then you have to stop in order to avoid not being able to use the module at all. If you want to balance it you make the amount of heat damage it takes greater, limiting the time it can overheat, problem solved.
Also if the problem is wormholes, then adjust the wormholes. Make it so the tracking of capital guns in wormholes is 5% less, instead of balancing the ship, balance the environment in which the ship becomes "op".
It's not so much the nerf, its more how horribly thought out the solution to your "problem" actually is. It feels more like the lazy balancing solution, than one that actually improves the game. "Insert Philosophical Statement Here" |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 13:13:00 -
[384] - Quote
Angrod Losshelin wrote:
This nerf is directly the result of another nerf. Tracking computers getting heat, this is odd because heat is designed to make stuff better at the risk of destroying the module. So, instead of balancing the module's heat, you will nerf the most expensive ship that could possibly benifit from it. I am in complete agreement with the statment "Then why bother at all? You're argument here counters itself. If a 5% nerf doesn't stop dreads from doing anything they currently do, then don't do it. I don't see any point in having even a 5% nerf to a ship that is expensive and puts itself at risk to fulfill its role"
Quite simply yes, our argument boils down to dont nerf stuff with no logical reason. There is no proof that the nerf needs to be done, we have not been provided any substantial evidence that this nerf is required in any fashion.
We would be happy with any number that atleast point in a logical direction. You are correct, there is no evidence to not nerf the ship. There is only logic, simple as don't **** **** up without a good reason. Give me a good reason and most of us nay sayers will be happy.
It is a simple question that needs answers.
This. |
killerkeano
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
17
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 13:22:00 -
[385] - Quote
SO THATS WHY CFC JUST WHELPED 200 DREADS IN HED-GP
WHAT A JOKE!
A dread in siege can just about blap a BS with max skills drugs and hardwiring, And rightly so! a 3Bn ISK dread can 2 volley a 150mill dominix.. and? its like saying a BS shouldn't be able to track a cruiser... cruiser shouldn't be able to track a frig..
Another example of CFC whines at a ship they cant field properly, 2mill SP noobs in dreads cant hit as well as a 150Mill SP character in a properly fitted dread., A dread should be able to hit Battleships, Now supers are mostly used (by any self respecting alliance with less than 900 of them..) to bash SBU's TCU's stations, Before long A dreads only purpose will be to shoot a pos nothing more.
In next weeks nerf's Archon deployable drones to be limited to 5 and armor resist bonus removed.
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killerkeano
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
17
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 13:26:00 -
[386] - Quote
Im also curious if the people that decide on these changes actually play the game? And the TEST server doesn't count! |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
77
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 07:33:00 -
[387] - Quote
As for this change were did u get idea that we even want or need overheating on those modules? As a revelation pilot in PvP I may want do it from time to time, but clearly my support (lokis etc.) has much more impact on my tracking. In PvE however when I run 4-5 capital escalations in WH, do you expect me to overheat for 1 hour? I think not...
CCP Rise go home, you're drunk... |
Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
113
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 06:04:00 -
[388] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello again! This thread will cover the changes to the base tracking stats of all capital turrets alongside the expansion of heat to Tracking Computer modules. I advise reading the Heat Iterations post before this one. When expanding the ability to overheat to Tracking Computers, we investigated the effects that the change would have on different levels of turrets and the doctrines that use them. With the help of the CSM we have identified that the effects on Capital Turret tracking would be (slightly) negative so we're making a small tweak to them at the same time as the heat expansion. In Rubicon 1.1 the tracking speed of all Capital Turrets will decrease by 5%.This means tracking will be 5% down vs current TQ values when not overheating any TCs, about 2% down when overheating one T2 TC, and about 1.5% up when overheating two T2 TCs. Using higher meta TCs makes the crossover faster. These changes will be on SISI very soon for you to try out for yourself, and as always we look forward to hearing your feedback. Thanks! With the ability (need) to overheat 2 T2 TC's to get a whopping 1.5% better tracking than before. Was the amount of extra load on CCP's servers taken into account for large fights, where up to a few thousand ships on field at once are overheating then swapping out burnt modules.
With Tracking Computers and omni's having scripts swapped in and out, modules being burnt and swapped out, Is this likely to increase the possibility of Tidi and more lag situations?
Large fights are becoming more common and less fun for many, I'm just curious as to whether these changes will contribute further to the current state of things
|
De ZuuuberrMan
Wasted and Still Mining
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 13:20:00 -
[389] - Quote
while this indeed does sound like a terrible idea and that we should all be running alpha dhepra whlepo neaglflaws after said changes, with just gyros in the lows and tcs in the mids, why not just totally forget this idea ever happened.
Make Stacking a thing instead of encougaring it, make it muchmuch worse the more you fit since its "not" going to change anything afterwards anyway, and for the bads give them a skill to train so it makes it less bad, something only training accounts can inject,
also completly off topic make high sec incursions more like Sov, give the little bears some sort of insight into the ways of null/sov/politics by making them consume/anchor/destory stuctures things to reduce/increase payouts while also making certain things invulenerable give them more drama less tears mebe even some tidi |
sabastyian
Death By Design
20
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 15:07:00 -
[390] - Quote
Worth mentioning, all guns should be nerf'd 5% tracking speed to compensate for the "tracking computer buff" as most gun types use a tracking computer in one way or another in a fit to work at long range and as all ships can now become over powered. Large pulse need to be nerf'd espically as the apoc, apoc navy and abaddon use tracking computers alot in null-sec. They can now become completely overpowered. |
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