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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:38:00 -
[1]
yes boys and girls its pertiotion time, once again minmatar have been gimped (yeah i know no surprise really )
so here i was looking though the stats on sis when they first came out....
The Archon was commissioned by the Amarr Navy to act
as a personnel and fighter carrier. The order to create the
ship came as part of a bah bah bah we are noob ammarrs bah bah bah bah
Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Energy and Shield transfer range per level
5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range
mmm tankalisis
The ChimeraĘs design is based upon the Kairiola,
bah bah bah some random noob crap bah bah bahaahhaba bah
Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Energy and Shield transfer range per level
5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range
mmm again tankalisis
Sensing the need for a more moderately-priced version of
the Nyx, bah bah bah we are sexy man hoes bah bah bah
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Shield and Armor transfer range per level
10% bonus to deployed FightersĘ damage per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range
mmm gankalisis
Essentially a pared-down version of its big brother the
Hel, the Nidhoggur nonetheless displays the same austerity
of vision evident in its sibling. Quite purposefully created
for nothing less than all-out warfare, and quite comfortable
with that fact, the Nidhoggur will no doubt find itself a
mainstay on many a battlefield.
Minmatar Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Shield and Armor transfer range per level
5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per
level
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range
....oh dear lord *stab myself in the face 50 times*
"5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per
level"
yes this is what drove me to such despare, such a gimped bonus, i dear say since the typhoon
wtf were the deves thinking
Oveur "OH MY GOD GUYS WERE IS THE PATCH THE WHINING ON THE FORUMS IS STOPING ME FROM DRINKING!!!"
Dev team : we're almost there just need to finsih the minmatar carrier "
Oveur: "just put a random bonus in no one will notice" goes back to drunk forum horing
and so on...
we end up with this CRAPTASTIS bonus
the activation time on a Capital transver array is 10 seconds
so at carrier lvl 5 we're looking at a reduction of......about 1-2 sec
wow dear god someone touch me im so overweled by its coolness....oh wait no im not
for the love of god change it to SOMETHING WORTH HAVING!!!
like a 5% REDUCTION TO CAP USE OF ARRAYS PER LVL!!!
or how about staying close to the description?
"Quite purposefully created
for nothing less than all-out warfare"
...yeah so you give the galentie one the damg bonus 
*deep breath*
ok im calm now
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:49:00 -
[2]
Once again we get the short end of the stick, im sure gallente will find somethign to whine about tho
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Omatje
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:51:00 -
[3]
lol, they did it again...
it's almost as usefull as a targetpainter bonus
sig? |
Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:54:00 -
[4]
10% added jump range per lvl? Personally I think that fits the whole Minmatar theme.
~From the creator of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Final Main :p
C.E.N.S.U.S. Arrays - The key to Covert 0.0 |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:59:00 -
[5]
;),
id say the bonus has to b changed - clearly.
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Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:08:00 -
[6]
I agree minnies need a diff bonus , Thanatos needs to have its bonus changed to +5% fighters and then we have some sort of balance.
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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TheDevilsJury
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:11:00 -
[7]
what about a fighter speed bonus? That fits minmatar ships just fine. Not sure what % would be ideal though.
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A proud fan of Nanofibers + Afterburners. Speed Kills.
I'm a guy. Don't just look at the avatar and call me "she". |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:14:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: TheDevilsJury
what about a fighter speed bonus? That fits minmatar ships just fine. Not sure what % would be ideal though.
oh god no
would gimp us even more as our fighters would orbit to fast and then won;t hit crap 
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Acwron
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:20:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Acwron on 31/03/2006 07:19:02
Quote:
Gallente Battleship / Rank 8 / SP: 1509099 of 2048000
+Currently training to: level 5
+Time left: 4 days, 21 hours, 21 minutes, 45 seconds
Minmatar Battleship / Rank 8 / SP: 2048000 of 2048000
Even if they fix the Carrier (unlikly): Moros > Naglfar.
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:23:00 -
[10]
not the pertition!
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I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool.
Industrialists wanted |
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sun Ra
im sure gallente will find somethign to whine about tho
Yea... we get the ugly carrier =[
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My grandfather
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:30:00 -
[12]
Hmm what is so wrong with this one? It basically means your mates who will be flying with you will be repairing 5% faster on both armor and shield. That's not bad. All it does is make the minnie carrier more in need of a fleet, but making it a stronger fleet as a whole. I wouldn't call it gimped, it's just a matter of teamplay vs a more 'solo-suitable' bonus.
As a pilot in a fleet, I'd prefer having the minnie carrier near over the rest. Simply because for a fully skilled carrier-pilot, that means I can take 25% more damage :p
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: My grandfather
Hmm what is so wrong with this one? It basically means your mates who will be flying with you will be repairing 5% faster on both armor and shield. That's not bad. All it does is make the minnie carrier more in need of a fleet, but making it a stronger fleet as a whole. I wouldn't call it gimped, it's just a matter of teamplay vs a more 'solo-suitable' bonus.
As a pilot in a fleet, I'd prefer having the minnie carrier near over the rest. Simply because for a fully skilled carrier-pilot, that means I can take 25% more damage :p
i'll use a qutoe from another tread i posted on
"minmatar is the worst of them all, only train for this if your hardcore minmatar
as its the SUCKYEST....yes SCUKYEST Carrier of them all, anyone who tells you other wise is ether
a.on drugs
b.has never flown one
c.a moron
d. a troll
or my favote
e. all of the above"
to you
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 10:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
you have no idea
and btw
a.on drugs
b.has never flown one
c.a moron
d. a troll
e. all of the above
your a E
This is where I should have stopped reading.
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
short-term pvp engagement? wtf is a carrier doing there, thise puppys are for FLEET FIGHTS
And this is where I did.
Remember this?:
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
and who the **** tanks in a fleet battle?
If it's for a fleet battle, why is it a tanking/logistical specialist ship if nobody tanks in fleet battles? Ships are FOR whatever they're good at.
You're basically saying that this ship, which is good at tanking, is designed for fleet battles, in which (according to you), nobody tanks. You don't see the logical flaw there?
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.31 10:47:00 -
[15]
Ever tried to get a POS's shields back up?
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Remember this?:
[quote=Aloysius Knight
and who the **** tanks in a fleet battle?
If it's for a fleet battle, why is it a tanking/logistical specialist ship if nobody tanks in fleet battles? Ships are FOR whatever they're good at.
You're basically saying that this ship, which is good at tanking, is designed for fleet battles, in which (according to you), nobody tanks. You don't see the logical flaw there?
what flaw? most of the time in a fleet battle people will warp out after taking a few hits
me personaly i'll take it until i need to get out, but having someone you cna warp off to to be repaired then going bak into the fight, THATS what im talking about
BTW can you even fly them?
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
what flaw?
The huge, gaping logical contradiction.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
My grandfather
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:34:00 -
[18]
Edited by: My grandfather on 31/03/2006 11:37:04
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Nyphur
Remember this?:
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
and who the **** tanks in a fleet battle?
If it's for a fleet battle, why is it a tanking/logistical specialist ship if nobody tanks in fleet battles? Ships are FOR whatever they're good at.
You're basically saying that this ship, which is good at tanking, is designed for fleet battles, in which (according to you), nobody tanks. You don't see the logical flaw there?
what flaw? most of the time in a fleet battle people will warp out after taking a few hits
me personaly i'll take it until i need to get out, but having someone you cna warp off to to be repaired then going bak into the fight, THATS what im talking about
BTW can you even fly them?
ok, even in that case. That means you'll be repaired a lot faster at that safespot. How is that gimped?
oh and I don't fly them, no. Do you?
edit: fixed quote-bars
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 11:55:20
Originally by: My grandfather
ok, even in that case. That means you'll be repaired a lot faster at that safespot. How is that gimped?
oh and I don't fly them, no. Do you?
I don't.
To Aloysius:
I mean really, if you're flying off to get repaired and them flying back, wouldn't you rather the repairing be done in a third less time? If you're suggesting that the carrier safespot nearby and act as a repair base, it's a good idea but it totally nullifies your argument about the amarr and caldari ones being better than the minmatar as the amarr and caldari ones don't have a bonus that will help with the use you're describing while the minmatar one does. Why would you need to tank your own ship if you're at a safespot? Ignoring, of course, the fact that you can be probed and killed.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:50:00 -
[20]
yes i cam fly them
and how you think the curent bonus is fine well
1/3 faster? stop trying to make it seem its that good, its 2 seconds for gods sake!!!
2 seconds is crap compared to a damg bonus of 10% per lvl or reistance of 5% per lvl
so youd' rather be able to repair 2 secs faster instead of a reduction in cap use so u can use them longer??? 
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 11:52:52
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
1/3 faster? stop trying to make it seem its that good, its 2 seconds for gods sake!!!
I quoted figures in an earlier post. With a warfare link, a minlink implant and the 5% repair speed implant, it's over 1/3 faster. Over 36%, as I recall. And the fact is, it only gets that high by compounding with the already present 25% bonus.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 11:52:52
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
1/3 faster? stop trying to make it seem its that good, its 2 seconds for gods sake!!!
I quoted figures in an earlier post. With a warfare link, a minlink implant and the 5% repair speed implant, it's over 1/3 faster. Over 36%, as I recall. And the fact is, it only gets that high by compounding with the already present 25% bonus.
ohhh i see we have to use all that to get that sort of bonus
(are you suer that remore armour reps are even affected by the warfair links?)
what about the reistinse of the amarr carrer and the caldari when u factor in a warfare mod mindlink and a 8% to armour hp implant?
im not talking about when u have the whole thing pimped, im talking about when all you have is that 2 secound reduction
here i'll put it in big letter for you
AT MINMATAR CARRER 5 YOU ARE LOOKING AT A REDUCTION OF ABOUT 2 SECOUNDS ON A CAPITAL TRANSVER ARRAY
it drops the repair cycle from 10 secounds to aobut 8
its not enuff compared to the other carrers, its almost like not having a bonus in the first place
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Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:02:00 -
[23]
Seems like a fairly obvious argument. Irrespective of the situation, you simply can't run the reps long enough for the bonus to be significant. 25% to all res or 50% higher DPS are pretty clear bonuses. You know it's significant. A bonus which saves 2s only when you are using (ie active) a remote rep and using it constantly (otherwise effectively nil bonus) and it's only useful in gangs (not fleet battles) used on other ships. It's the only bonus to give zero benefit to the player flying the carrier. And that the bonus even for the gang is debatable shows the problem.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
ohhh i see we have to use all that to get that sort of bonus
(are you suer that remore armour reps are even affected by the warfair links?)
Yes, it works. Being a carrier pilot, I'm shocked you didn't know that. I'm also pretty surprised that you seem to think it's okay to fly a capital ship without having it "pimped out", as you say. Why would you put something that costly at risk without taking the time to make it the most effective you possibly can? It's not expensive to get a warfare link and a 3/5% repairer implant. And compared to the carrier, the mindlink implant isn't that expensive at all. If you can afford to throw money at a carrier, you can afford to buy a mindlink implant.
And when you say it drops it by 2 seconds, you're assuming you have the skill at level 4, not 5. At level 5, it's 7.5 seconds. At level 5 with the appropriate skills, implants, gang mods and it's about 6.3 and you have a 15% cap use reduction from one of the gang mods if you want it, plus 25% from the remote repairer skill (when you tested it in quickfit, you remembered to set that skill, right?). That's 36.25% less cap use over the base values and a 6.3 second repair duration.
And you use the roll emoticon far too much. It loses effect when it's in every post ;).
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Aloysius Knight on 31/03/2006 12:23:08
what i love to roll my eyes weeee look at them gooooooo
anyway since you seem to be good at maths (hey i suck at % eat me)
what would be the finaly reisitances on a amarr carrier with reisatne gang mod and so?
any what about one of the other carriers with all those mods on for remote arrays? whats the cap use and cycle time of them?
and u can't really say that youd rather have this bonus then something else right?
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Funboy
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Minmatar are the Ultimate Undeniable Underdogs of EVE, were meant to be crap. The Dev team arent stupid, this is the way it was designed. Im just used to it now :)
Revel in it.
DERP!!!
....
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:32:00 -
[27]
I'd rather have the Minmatar bonus than the Amarr one.
Yes, really. If I ever get a carrier (miles away atm) I have no intention of ever letting anyone shoot it. Why would you? It doesn't need to be in combat to use its firepower, why risk it? A remote rep/boost bonus, on the other hand, a) works great at a safe for rapid turn-around on damaged BS, and is absolutely invaluable if you're trying to get a POS back on its feet again. By contrast, if you ever reach the point where higher resists become useful (ie you're being shot at, scrambled and without a jump target), chances are you're dead anyway, and the extra seconds from resists won't make a difference. The only exception to this would be if you were actually trying to sustainably tank your carrier, and again in this case I ask why? The only possible reason I can see is to act as a decoy or weapons magnet. In that case yes, if you're willing to take the risk then the extra resists are useful. For general useage though, I'd be very tempted to go with the Matari design.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nyphur
What the hell are you doing fitting 5 capital repairers on a carrier and trying to run them all at once?
umm.... you know that carriers can not fit any weapons besides smart bombs right???
You also know that the reduced cycle time bonus and the 50% more range per lvl bonus only applies to the capital sized mods right??? (unless of course this was changed recently like after the BPO for the capital sized ones finally got seeded).
yeah i want to use a large remote armor rep with its whole 7500 meter range because that is oh so useful at being able to fix ships quickly when they warp to the carrier (if the carrier is not in the main fight which it should not be.)
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:40:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 12:41:03
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
what i love to roll my eyes weeee look at them gooooooo
anyway since you seem to be good at maths (hey i suck at % eat me)
what would be the finaly reisitances on a amarr carrier with reisatne gang mod and so?
and u can't really say that youd rather have this bonus then something else right?
The amarr/caldari carriers get the same resistance, 25% at level 5 plus 15% from a gang mod, which is a total of 36.25%. In practical terms, that follows the formula I posted earlier when determining by how much it raises their tanking ability, which ends up as a 56.86% increase. Your repair rate raises tanking done with the remote repairers by over 65% because you have an additional 5% implant. There is no 5% resistance implant. TBH, I'm not even sure if that 5% implant even works on remote repairers but I know the rest does.
A resistance bonus is nice but only if you're in the thick of things. That bonus is doing you no good sat at a safespot while the minmatar one looks like it will help speed things up a little, if only a little. The gallente one is by far the best, of course. The damage bonus on fighters you can have deployed when you are safespotted is great.
Here's a crazy idea. Take advantage of that big cargo bay and corp hanger. Fit the mids with Heavy electrochemical capacitor boosters, capital armour tank in the lows and remote reps in the highs. You get enough cap out of that to last a good 15 minutes of high usage before you have to kill the remote reps down to maybe 1 running and let it recharge. You could get stuck right into combat with that, running the remote reps at full blast while you do. If that doesn't push the odds in your favour, something's wrong.
EDIT: I assumed that the carrier bonuses applied to large remote reps too. Can anyone confirm that this is not the case?
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:48:00 -
[30]
so many th8ings put in this thread are only halfthoughtout, and would never work and end in a screwup
i read that u put weapons on those - u cant.
putting L, not capital, remoteson carriers doesnt help u either, no bonusses and a way too short on them, think its maximum 10km, where as it gotta b 50km or more to b somehow effective ina fleetfight, or more then 15 when u rep at a ss.
for repping at an ss u have the problem that it takes so long to lock the bses, and the captial rep will usually only have to cycle one time on a bs, so a faster remote rep is pretty much useless, as u have with 3 capital reps prolly plenty of time to wait for the cycles to end, well enough time that the 2 secs wont matter, or 3 or 4 even..
now for repping other capital ships or poses it could b useful - if they wouldnt kill ur capacitor so fast.
a caprial ship without cap is dead meat, especially a carrier, so forget repping in a big battle like that - resists are way better there.
now another bonus imo could be somethin like:
cap reduction,
fighter sig reduction,
jumprange or whatever.
btw, dont worry bout bnc not pimpin out their captials ;)
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Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:52:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
so many th8ings put in this thread are only halfthoughtout, and would never work and end in a screwup
i read that u put weapons on those - u cant.
Forgive my noobiness ^^;. Never flown one before. I'm learning a lot from this thread. I didn't know that they were best used repping at a SS, for example.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.31 13:17:00 -
[32]
TBH, I think their "best" use is sitting at a POS, because then they're pretty much invulnerable, and you can have replacement fighters sitting there too if you need to.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.03.31 14:24:00 -
[33]
"you can have replacement fighters sitting there too if you need to."
i think ive read in a carrier-bug thread that u cant replace em in a pos, too lazy to find it now tho ;)
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Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.31 14:35:00 -
[34]
Well... meh :P
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Aion Amarra
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Posted - 2006.03.31 14:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
"you can have replacement fighters sitting there too if you need to."
i think ive read in a carrier-bug thread that u cant replace em in a pos, too lazy to find it now tho ;)
Hope they fix that. Otherwise you'd be ****** with a mothership... since you... can't dock?
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 20:47:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
I'd rather have the Minmatar bonus than the Amarr one.
Yes, really. If I ever get a carrier (miles away atm) I have no intention of ever letting anyone shoot it. Why would you? It doesn't need to be in combat to use its firepower, why risk it? A remote rep/boost bonus, on the other hand, a) works great at a safe for rapid turn-around on damaged BS, and is absolutely invaluable if you're trying to get a POS back on its feet again. By contrast, if you ever reach the point where higher resists become useful (ie you're being shot at, scrambled and without a jump target), chances are you're dead anyway, and the extra seconds from resists won't make a difference. The only exception to this would be if you were actually trying to sustainably tank your carrier, and again in this case I ask why? The only possible reason I can see is to act as a decoy or weapons magnet. In that case yes, if you're willing to take the risk then the extra resists are useful. For general useage though, I'd be very tempted to go with the Matari design.
fin we'll swap im sure many people will have no problems with that
again im not talking about when you have all the uber gang mods implants voodoo dolls what ever
im talking about that at lvl 5 minmatar carrier your looking at a redcution of cycle .....2-2.5 sec
its crap, pure 100% crap compared to the other carrers, not if it had a reduction to cap use them it would be useful
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.31 21:45:00 -
[37]
Absolute numbers are irrelevant. It's a 25% reduction in cycle time, which is the same bonus you get for training repair systems V.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 21:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Absolute numbers are irrelevant. It's a 25% reduction in cycle time, which is the same bonus you get for training repair systems V.
wow you can say that with a strait face
wtf do you mean are irrelevant!?
so having
25% bonus to ristance for 2 carrers
50% bonnus to fighter damg for 1 carrer
and finaly 25% reduction cylce time for the gimp
2-2.5 secs of of a normal cycle of 10 sec
it badly needs a relook at the bonus
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.03.31 22:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Nyphur
5% increase in repairer speed is equal to a 5.26% increase in the tank of whatever it's remote repairing. At level 4, it's getting a 20% increase, which is a 25% increase in the tank of whatever it's repairing. at level 5, it's a 25% increase, which translates to a 33.33% increase in repair rate of remote repairers.
So are you telling me that a 1/3 increase in the maximum repair rate of your remote repairers and boosters is worthless in a fleet combat situation? Put two and two together here, guys. The Amarr and Caldari carriers are good at tanking themselves, the gallente one is a good damage dealer and the minmatar one is the best at high-end logistics. If that's what it's good for, that's what you should be using it for.
Does it matter all that much when each ship just gets 1-2 volley'd by 20 Tempests and Geddons?
With gallente your drones kill things 50% faster... I'd much rather have something like that....
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.31 22:14:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 31/03/2006 22:15:00
Absolute numbers are irrelevant.
If it was 2s off a 100s cycle then it'd be pointless. As it is it's 2s off a 10s cycle, which is a big difference. Without the bonus you rep 200/s, with it you rep 266/s. That's 66 more per second, 33% more than without the skill. That means with three of them running you're repping the same amount as four on any other carrier. And that's insignificant how?
{edit} The Gallente bonus is overpowered. I don't think that's up for debate.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.03.31 22:19:00 -
[41]
2 seconds off of 10 seconds is still negligable... its 2 seconds off at a safe spot, basically all that does is eliminate the lag from someone having to move their mouse over to activate the module. Thats. About. It.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 22:24:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Aloysius Knight on 31/03/2006 22:25:26
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 31/03/2006 22:15:00
Absolute numbers are irrelevant.
If it was 2s off a 100s cycle then it'd be pointless. As it is it's 2s off a 10s cycle, which is a big difference. Without the bonus you rep 200/s, with it you rep 266/s. That's 66 more per second, 33% more than without the skill. That means with three of them running you're repping the same amount as four on any other carrier. And that's insignificant how?
{edit} The Gallente bonus is overpowered. I don't think that's up for debate.
well its 250/sec (2000/8) at lvl 4 and 266 at lvl 5 and still is crap due to the massive amount of cap used
stop going on about how uber the bonus is, its 2 bloody secounds!! so u can rep just that little faster, but u still are faced with the other carriers out performing you
ether being able to take more damg or lay it on other ships with uber fighters
absolute numbers are everything, not some crap about %
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.03.31 22:53:00 -
[43]
the bonus is pretty much useless
if you boost POS shields, you use basilisks and ospreys
you cant repair on the battlefield, BS die before thy can even call for help
reparing at a warpout point is the only use of a carrriers highslots, 25% faster is nothing worth a bonus...
Jawas are lousy carebears :(
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Deros
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Posted - 2006.04.01 02:01:00 -
[44]
couldnt agree more tbh nafri,
with the gang mod bonii it appears for use on the battlefield, but tbh its going to die there, so :/
and if not, then the bonus doesnt really help :(
Deros
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.04.01 02:02:00 -
[45]
Minnies are not loved, get used to it 
--------------------------------
I am G and i am IRON - as we all are brothers in arms and times of need. |
Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.04.01 02:04:00 -
[46]
the bonus is just crap, i'd really like to know their reasoning for that bonus, besides: lets make one of them a logistic carrier
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.04.01 03:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nyphur
What the hell are you doing fitting 5 capital repairers on a carrier and trying to run them all at once? Fit some weapons, damnit
Wow, why are you guys complaining about the ship when she's the only carrier that can fit weapons? 
----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Deros
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Posted - 2006.04.01 03:59:00 -
[48]
i am sorry, i fail to see where it says that it has turret hardpoints to fit these guns you want us to use:
Nidhoggur
Tempest
Check the fittings section, one has hardpoints (Tempest used for reference) and one does not.
Deros
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Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.04.01 04:05:00 -
[49]
Maybe he has too much Ragnarok on the mind.
~From the creator of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Final Main :p
C.E.N.S.U.S. Arrays - The key to Covert 0.0 |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.01 04:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Foulis
Originally by: Nyphur
What the hell are you doing fitting 5 capital repairers on a carrier and trying to run them all at once? Fit some weapons, damnit
Wow, why are you guys complaining about the ship when she's the only carrier that can fit weapons?
must reisist....urge to flame....
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Mando Nessen
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Posted - 2006.04.01 08:51:00 -
[51]
Thought I'd add some numbers to this mess. Minnie bonus ONLY comes into play when repairing at a SS, all others are weird special cases. Situation: We have a carrier sitting at safe spot, the pilot has carrier 4, remote cap rep 4, 2x cap armor reps and 2x cap shield reps.
BS (sig radius 400) warps in with 0 armor and shields (wow that was lucky he got out when he did).
Lets see how long this SS repair Depot took to get him back in the action? Compare Gal and Minnie carrier.
GalMinnie
Requests rep5sec5sec
carrier begin targetting3sec3sec
carrier finish targetting8sec6.6sec
carrier starts rep2sec2sec
carrier finishes rep10sec8sec
align and warp back20sec20sec
Total Time48sec44.6sec
The minamater ship got its battleship back to the battle 7% quicker
course it used 4 cap reps to do it.
The Gal carrier used 768 cap/sec
The min carrier used 960 cap/sec
so the question is... was the bonus ,that ONLY applies in this senario, that got its ship back in the battle 7% faster equivalent to an always applicable 40% damage bonus? Also, I believe that I was rather generous when considering human reaction times and lag, as you can see the actual Rep time is a smallish part of the total time taken.
Heres hoping they change the bonus before I can fly one in 50 days.
Mando
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2006.04.01 08:58:00 -
[52]
This bonus indeed sounds retarded.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.04.01 10:28:00 -
[53]
the best suggestion yet:
reduce fuel need for jumping, making the minmatar a logistic monster
Jawas are lousy carebears :(
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.01 10:31:00 -
[54]
To be honest... I am more hurt that carrier bugs are still existant than a stupid worthless bonus. Get over it its not like it makes a difference. Just having a carrier in the system is better than nothing right now since they came pre-nerfed and pre-bugged.
It is the sexiest looking ship in the game next the the hel.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.01 10:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
To be honest... I am more hurt that carrier bugs are still existant than a stupid worthless bonus. Get over it its not like it makes a difference. Just having a carrier in the system is better than nothing right now since they came pre-nerfed and pre-bugged.
It is the sexiest looking ship in the game next the the hel.
BEEEGOONNNEEE TROLL!!!
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.01 11:01:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
To be honest... I am more hurt that carrier bugs are still existant than a stupid worthless bonus. Get over it its not like it makes a difference. Just having a carrier in the system is better than nothing right now since they came pre-nerfed and pre-bugged.
It is the sexiest looking ship in the game next the the hel.
BEEEGOONNNEEE TROLL!!!
why don't you try countering with some logic instead of trolling and flaming your own thread?
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.01 11:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Nafri
the best suggestion yet:
reduce fuel need for jumping, making the minmatar a logistic monster
That would make me a happy panda
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.01 11:03:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nafri
the best suggestion yet:
reduce fuel need for jumping, making the minmatar a logistic monster
Interesting.
(Just for the record, I'm not saying the bonus is uber, and I've already agreed that the Gal one is better - I'm just saying that compared to say the Amarr one it's actually not that bad.)
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.01 11:10:00 -
[59]
well i was think more along the line of a reduction of cap use for arrays if they want to keep it as a "logistic carrier"
or maybe giving it a damg bonus to drones seeing how its bult for "all out warfair"
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.04.01 11:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Nafri
the best suggestion yet:
reduce fuel need for jumping, making the minmatar a logistic monster
Interesting.
(Just for the record, I'm not saying the bonus is uber, and I've already agreed that the Gal one is better - I'm just saying that compared to say the Amarr one it's actually not that bad.)
well since the gallente one has a double bonus we could make it like this:
matari: 10% fuel need per lvl
amarr/cadalri: 5% resistances/5% fuel need
gallente: 10% damage
matari carrier will be the choice for a quick strike into enemy territory, and keeping logistics in enemy territory
amarr and caldari are a tanked version of the matari carrier, but not as jumpy
gallente carrier is best to defend your home, with pure damage but limited movement ability
Jawas are lousy carebears :(
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.01 12:06:00 -
[61]
Or better still, how about improved jump range?
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Deros
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Posted - 2006.04.01 12:25:00 -
[62]
i think the idea of a jumpdrive based bonus, be it range of fuel are both good ideas, the trick is to give it a unique role, which these would both do :)
Deros
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.01 12:40:00 -
[63]
yeah that sounds cool to me
10% reduction in fuel use per lvl
or 10% increase to jump range per lvl
mmmmm
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Corphus
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Posted - 2006.04.01 12:47:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Golan Trevize
I agree minnies need a diff bonus , Thanatos needs to have its bonus changed to +5% fighters and then we have some sort of balance.
gallente = best drone warfare race.
10% is cool since thanatos cant tank as awell as caldari or amarr...so ganking as much enemies as possible before the ship goes into structure is the only way of survival
(assuming u fly alone in ur carrier)
another point is the minmatar carrier. the bonus just sucks. really sucks monkeyballs. i mean the faster shield/armor transfer allows u to tank a friendly nearby vessel so that it can survive a lot of damage but the carrier itself doesnt have any effectivity bonus for attacking or defence if it gets aggroed. i could imagine that ccp wanted matari pilots to fly in groups of carriers which could tank each other but its strange that all other races get either self-defence or attack bonuses.
imo u should either give the minmatar a special drone related bonus such as less drone sig radius or more speed or faster drone rof. or give it a self-defence bonus like 5% less cap use for shieldboosters or a resistance thingy.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.01 13:09:00 -
[65]
If you're flying alone in your carrier you deserve to die. I don't see any way around the fact that the Gallente bonus is miles better than the bonuses of other carriers.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.04.01 13:30:00 -
[66]
what about an 10% to ship and corphangar per lvl,
that would make it pretty useful i think,
or jumprange, but one half hauler load more or less doesnt make up for 5% resistance bonus or 10% dmg bonus ont he other carriers.
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2006.04.01 14:32:00 -
[67]
every carrier should get 5% or 10% dmg per lvl to its racial fighters and gallente bonus switched to something else.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.01 16:39:00 -
[68]
Wow ists amaze me that some people are SO ignorant that they call minmatar bonus good
Minmatar carrier culd be as well without ANY bonuses as with this
This us useless bonus on OH so many levels its not even funy, as we all know how widly is remote repairin (aka priest class) is used in EVE, we can all predict the popularity of the bonus utilization = +-0%
Fact: That bonus blows.
Fact: It needs to be changed to something, hell even 10% to jumprange!
Fact: galentte bonus must be nerffed to 5% or give all other carriers 5% bonus to racials. And Galentte 5% to racial damage and 5% to omni damage.
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.01 17:03:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
what about an 10% to ship and corphangar per lvl,
that would make it pretty useful i think,
or jumprange, but one half hauler load more or less doesnt make up for 5% resistance bonus or 10% dmg bonus ont he other carriers.
A jump range bonus isn't about hauler loads at the beginning, it's about a combination of maximum unassisted range and increased one-jump strike range.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.01 22:09:00 -
[70]
well id love to get a dev respons on this.....please?
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.04.01 23:28:00 -
[71]
"A jump range bonus isn't about hauler loads at the beginning, it's about a combination of maximum unassisted range and increased one-jump strike range."
sry if it wasnt clear,
i meant that fuel reduction would safe maybe half an hauler, and is not so useful,
range would be tho.
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.01 23:30:00 -
[72]
Yes, a fuel use reduction would save half a hauler if you have a specific distance you want to travel which requires less fuel than your cargo bay can hold. However, it does mean that you can travel further on a "full tank" (ie cargo hold full of fuel), which for deep strikes could be very useful as it extends your "maximum operational range".
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.01 23:35:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Yes, a fuel use reduction would save half a hauler if you have a specific distance you want to travel which requires less fuel than your cargo bay can hold. However, it does mean that you can travel further on a "full tank" (ie cargo hold full of fuel), which for deep strikes could be very useful as it extends your "maximum operational range".
well a combination of the 2 would be great
incering your jump range and using less fuel to to so
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Madboy
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Posted - 2006.04.02 01:33:00 -
[74]
Give it a jump range bonus if nothing else..
But, I seriously doubt that will happen.
The Devs don't love us.
- MadBoy
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.02 01:48:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Yes, a fuel use reduction would save half a hauler if you have a specific distance you want to travel which requires less fuel than your cargo bay can hold. However, it does mean that you can travel further on a "full tank" (ie cargo hold full of fuel), which for deep strikes could be very useful as it extends your "maximum operational range".
Maybe. It's not hard to stash haulers full of fuel along the route tho, in POS preferably mind you, or some nasty person (me? NAH!  ) will scan them down and borrow the contents.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.04.02 01:49:00 -
[76]
Too bad all this good speculation and great suggestions are pointless because the devs never read 99% of the threads :/
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.02 03:09:00 -
[77]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Too bad all this good speculation and great suggestions are pointless because the devs never read 99% of the threads :/
so true....and if they do they grab ccp hammer and point and laugh at him
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Ravenal
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Posted - 2006.04.02 03:16:00 -
[78]
do the battlecruiser way on the carriers...
amarr and caldari have their resistances
gallente and minmatar should have their boost bonuses...
.
-Fate is what you make of it.
-Make your own fate using T2 items produced by The Fated
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.02 08:06:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ravenal
do the battlecruiser way on the carriers...
amarr and caldari have their resistances
gallente and minmatar should have their boost bonuses...
oh another good idea
7.5% bonus to armour and shield repare amout per lvl
so what say you tux? we gonna have to wait a year before you fix this?
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.02 09:49:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Yes, a fuel use reduction would save half a hauler if you have a specific distance you want to travel which requires less fuel than your cargo bay can hold. However, it does mean that you can travel further on a "full tank" (ie cargo hold full of fuel), which for deep strikes could be very useful as it extends your "maximum operational range".
Maybe. It's not hard to stash haulers full of fuel along the route tho, in POS preferably mind you, or some nasty person (me? NAH! ) will scan them down and borrow the contents.
If you know your route in advance and have time to set up a bunch of haulers deep in hostile space, yes. But if you don't have those things it well help - and even when you do, it makes the workload lighter.
As to fuel reduction, an increased range does give you an effective fuel use reduction, because you're jumping further for the same amount of fuel and thus going further per fuel unit.
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dabster
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Posted - 2006.04.02 09:53:00 -
[81]
I never looked closely at the stats before but WOW..the bonuses are such a*****up for Minmatar
The BC approach sounds really logical imo.
___________________________
Brutors Rule!
My Eve-vids; Click. |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.02 10:14:00 -
[82]
Originally by: dabster
I never looked closely at the stats before but WOW..the bonuses are such a*****up for Minmatar
The BC approach sounds really logical imo.
They actualy went that on minmatar carrier, only in reverse logick.
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Corphus
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Posted - 2006.04.02 14:13:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
If you're flying alone in your carrier you deserve to die. I don't see any way around the fact that the Gallente bonus is miles better than the bonuses of other carriers.
look at it this way:
gallente claim to be best drone carrier pilots = 10% bonus to drone dmg
amarr and caldari are know for their superior survivability in combat due to shield/armor tankage = 5% resistance per lvl
minmatar are know to be the best raider pilots and kings of guerilla warfare = wtf ?! wheres the right bonus ??
i would like to fly amarr and gallente carriers....since i could either setup myself to be a fleet carrier to crash into enemy forces and anihillate em with my fighters and support ships while compensating as much dmg as possible.
or i could act as heavy combat support for small ships by assingning my fighters to an ceptor gang which kills enemy forces while sitting at safe spot and concentrating on replacing fighter craft killed by the enemy and equip killed ceptor pilots with mods and ships...etc.
this is only my point of view concerning the tactics of carrier use of the different races (minmatar left out since i just cant imagine why it has a non-combat related bonus in one way or another).
it may sound arrogant but there a lot differences especially in the performance bonus sector of the races which make ppl think their race is underpowered or left out. anyway ppl are always free to train for the ship suiting their needs and tactics in eve.
sometimes a statement of ccp to its bonus decisions would help ppl to understand how to implement the new ships in their own ideas of tactics and strategy. thats the biggest problem in eve since the devs want to keep our minds busy.
but to state my opinion on the topic: i think minmatar deserve a boost regarding carrier bonuses or at least a practical proof for its current bonus value compared with the other 3 races.
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Aleis
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Posted - 2006.04.02 14:48:00 -
[84]
Please don't give it the Shield bost amount bonus that the BC has, i don't like the trend of trying to make Minmatar an all shield tank race, when half if not more of their ships Armor tank any way.
It goes against the versitility role they have for the Matari, even if that means we aren't awsome at any one thing.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.02 16:54:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Corphus
look at it this way:
gallente claim to be best drone carrier pilots = 10% bonus to drone dmg
amarr and caldari are know for their superior survivability in combat due to shield/armor tankage = 5% resistance per lvl
I understand the reason the bonuses were picked, I just think it makes the Gallente one by far and away the best carrier in most cases.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.03 07:27:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Aleis
Please don't give it the Shield bost amount bonus that the BC has, i don't like the trend of trying to make Minmatar an all shield tank race, when half if not more of their ships Armor tank any way.
It goes against the versitility role they have for the Matari, even if that means we aren't awsome at any one thing.
i was talking more of a bonus like this
7.5% to armour and shield repair mods per lvl (that includes remote reps)
so it becomes the "medic" of the carriers
but some how i think the devs don't care about this **** up, much rather have it swept under the carpet and not talked about
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.04.03 07:43:00 -
[87]
poor minnies, i actually feel sorry for them on this one. change bonus please.
-------------------------------------------
"Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.03 10:58:00 -
[88]
wow so a post about faction missiles gets a dev response wile one that points out a major imbalance in a ship class gets none
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.04.03 21:04:00 -
[89]
-92% to -100% cpu on covert ops cloaking devices. 
-------------------------------------------
"Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
Bob Biac
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Posted - 2006.04.04 07:13:00 -
[90]
/me sings "wheres the love... its not enough..... it makes the world go round and round aaaannd..."
oh an /bump
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.04 08:09:00 -
[91]
bump it up
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Thaylon Sen
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Posted - 2006.04.04 08:32:00 -
[92]
I know we play the underdog, but come on please... throw a dog a bone will ya
Peace Out |
cheese390
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Posted - 2006.04.04 08:36:00 -
[93]
personally, I'd like me a drone tracking bonus. It would be the first ever recorded event of matari guns actually hitting something TWICE in succession.
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.04.04 09:03:00 -
[94]
I've not read all the posts, but I don't think the bonus is that bad. Faster repair is a good thing, but if the 10 sec cycle time on Cap Remote Repper is correct, then it is allmost non-excistant. If on the other hand the cycle time were about 15-20 sec, then those 10% would be a good thing, imo.
And a bit off topic, whats that Amarr carrier bonus about. Bonus to shield transfer's.. what amarr ship uses shields?? Bloody Khanid insanity 
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.04.04 09:08:00 -
[95]
The only good about the minnie carrier is its awesome skin and look.
The rest sucks
--------------------------------
Darkness and humanity. |
Dimitri Tanan
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Posted - 2006.04.04 09:20:00 -
[96]
Though I don't fly a carrier, I fail to see how the Minmatar bonus is any crappier then the Amarr or Caldari bonus.
It's been fairly well agreed on, and is quite obvious, that you've got to be a huge idiot taking a carrier into direct combat. So while the repair bonus does may suck, it's certainly no worse then the other two resistance bonuses. Like someone said, those resists are just sitting there doing NOTHING when no one is shooting at you. Atleast with a repairer bonus you're speeding things up for people.
So in my eyes, all three races should be complaining about their crappy bonuses. You'll be more successful if you actually try and realize the whole problem, not just your own races issue.
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Tarri
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Posted - 2006.04.04 09:58:00 -
[97]
Minmatar have lots of speed and lots of weapon hardpoints, also mostly damage related bonuses so it's totally wrong to give that logistics bonus to the Nighoggur...
I think they wanted to make the amarr and caldari ones tanks and the gallente and minmatar ones damagedealers but then realised that carriers don't have weapon hardpoints....
Why don't give it a drone bonus, not a damage bonus but perhaps a tracking or signature reduction bonus?
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.04 10:03:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Tarri
Minmatar have lots of speed and lots of weapon hardpoints, also mostly damage related bonuses so it's totally wrong to give that logistics bonus to the Nighoggur...
I think they wanted to make the amarr and caldari ones tanks and the gallente and minmatar ones damagedealers but then realised that carriers don't have weapon hardpoints....
Why don't give it a drone bonus, not a damage bonus but perhaps a tracking or signature reduction bonus?
/mbe beats Tarris head in with a Nidhoggur
IT DOSN"T HAVE WEPON HARDPOINTS!!!!
and for the love of god look at the carriers before posting such missimfored crap
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Tarri
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Posted - 2006.04.04 10:14:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Tarri on 04/04/2006 10:17:01
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Tarri
Minmatar have lots of speed and lots of weapon hardpoints, also mostly damage related bonuses so it's totally wrong to give that logistics bonus to the Nighoggur...
I think they wanted to make the amarr and caldari ones tanks and the gallente and minmatar ones damagedealers but then realised that carriers don't have weapon hardpoints....
Why don't give it a drone bonus, not a damage bonus but perhaps a tracking or signature reduction bonus?
/mbe beats Tarris head in with a Nidhoggur
IT DOSN"T HAVE WEPON HARDPOINTS!!!!
and for the love of god look at the carriers before posting such missimfored crap
ouch, erm, I meant that as a DRONE BONUS as in giving the drones a better tracking or signature radius.....
and for the love of god don't hit people with carriers before reading their posts.
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2006.04.04 11:07:00 -
[100]
i Lub Minni ships, but when i saw the sux0r carrier bonus, i trained Gal BS 5. Not a hope in HEL was i gonna b caught in a ship with such a pants bonus. KK thnx.
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
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Jessica Lonbow
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Posted - 2006.04.04 11:18:00 -
[101]
5% bonus to agility per level perhaps
**
Jessica Lonbow, Public Relations
Infinite Style Incorporated |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.04 11:48:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Jessica Lonbow
5% bonus to agility per level perhaps
oh dear god you can't be for real
have you even FLOWN one of them!
thats even wrose then the cycle time reduction it has now
common Devs pull your finger out and at lest say your looking into it
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Jessica Lonbow
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Posted - 2006.04.04 12:45:00 -
[103]
5% bonus per level to forum whoring then?
**
Jessica Lonbow, Public Relations
Infinite Style Incorporated |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.05 07:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Jessica Lonbow
5% bonus per level to forum whoring then?
ohh now theres a idea
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.04.05 09:20:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Golan Trevize on 05/04/2006 09:24:54
Edited by: Golan Trevize on 05/04/2006 09:24:40
Edited by: Golan Trevize on 05/04/2006 09:22:41
A 5% jump range bonus....... well initially it sounds pretty good, but when i think about it would just make it even more horrible since it wouldent be able to coorperate with a mixed capital fleet(most are execpt CVA¦s)it would have to have its own Cyno field generators to use the extended range, and everyone who have moved a fleet of capital ships know that getting the cynos in place is tedious work( suddently some guy logs of cus his mum called).
So back in the thinktank.
Maybe a Cpu/Grid reduction for Cloning bay..... it would still be the worst carrier, but it could do something the others couldent and it would be a very skirmishy/Minmatari ship able to deploy 10 Terrorists and 10 figthers deep behind enemy lines.
Actually that would make me very envious , but it wouldent be too overpowered in my opinion.
Golan
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.05 10:31:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Golan Trevize
Edited by: Golan Trevize on 05/04/2006 09:25:06
A 5% jump range bonus....... well initially it sounds pretty good, but when i think about it would just make it even more horrible since it wouldent be able to coorperate with a mixed capital fleet(most are execpt CVA¦s)it would have to have its own Cyno field generators to use the extended range, and everyone who have moved a fleet of capital ships know that getting the cynos in place is tedious work( suddently some guy logs of cus his mum called).
So back in the thinktank.
Maybe a Cpu/Grid reduction for Cloning bay..... it would still be the worst carrier, but it could do something the others couldent and it would be a very skirmishy/Minmatari ship able to deploy 10 Terrorists and 10 figthers deep behind enemy lines.
Actually that would make me very envious , but it wouldent be too overpowered in my opinion.
Golan
The clone bay thing would only help mother ships not the small carriers
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wierchas noobhunter
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Posted - 2006.04.05 10:33:00 -
[107]
love to Minmatar Carriers
<3
wierchas 4tw |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.05 10:34:00 -
[108]
Mail Tuxford?
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.04.05 10:49:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Golan Trevize on 05/04/2006 10:50:39
The clone bay thing would only help mother ships not the small carriers
I Know but make the minnie CARRIER able to use a clone bay...that would make it unique.
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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Swethren
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Posted - 2006.04.05 11:18:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Swethren on 05/04/2006 11:18:32
Caldari Fighter - dragonfly
Shield: 3000
Armour: 2750
Amarr Fighter - templar
Shield: 2250
Armour: 3750
Gallente Fighter - firbolg
Shield: 2500
Armour: 3000
Minmatar Fighter - einherji
Shield: 2750
Armour: 3250
Notice how you the amarr fighters are the 2nd BEST in both shield AND armour and your better than Gallente on both fronts, not to mention your fighters are the fastest so should technically take less dmg
You get your carrie bonus, when you fighters take a nerf, mkay?
Swethren
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.04.05 11:37:00 -
[111]
How does that help when the fighters are orbiting too fast to hit things properly...
sgb
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Swethren
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Posted - 2006.04.05 11:39:00 -
[112]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
How does that help when the fighters are orbiting too fast to hit things properly...
sgb
Train the tracking skills for em?
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.05 11:53:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Swethren
Originally by: smallgreenblur
How does that help when the fighters are orbiting too fast to hit things properly...
sgb
Train the tracking skills for em?
or how about you get a clue before posting?
there is no skill to increse fighter tracking, and seeing how you can use any races fighters with any carrier makes you a troll with a nack for owning himself with every post mmmmk?
useing clone babys would be a uniek bonus for the carrier and alow for quick relocation of people, bar the fack carrirs can carry **** all ships and the limit for 1 jump per 24 hours
i highly recamend 5 to 7.5% to repair amount affecting both armour and shield reps
turning the minmatar carrier into the "Healer" of the carriers
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.05 12:02:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Golan Trevize
Edited by: Golan Trevize on 05/04/2006 10:50:39
The clone bay thing would only help mother ships not the small carriers
I Know but make the minnie CARRIER able to use a clone bay...that would make it unique.
well you would still need a bonus for the minmatar mothership as all MS get 99% reduction to cpu use for them anyway, see my other post for my surjested fix
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.05 12:09:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Swethren
Originally by: smallgreenblur
How does that help when the fighters are orbiting too fast to hit things properly...
sgb
Train the tracking skills for em?
i highly recamend 5 to 7.5% to repair amount affecting both armour and shield reps
turning the minmatar carrier into the "Healer" of the carriers
You do realise that, cap use aside, that's the exact bonus they have already, right?
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Hashi Lebwohl
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Posted - 2006.04.05 12:45:00 -
[116]
A builder's perspective.
We actually acquired another Thanatos print to meet demand and the Archon has been a good seller. The Chimera has performed ok but not brilliantly, but here we believe it has been the Phoenix, definitely the least popular dreadnaught, which has meant that training for Caldari capital ships has been set back.
The Nidhoggur does not have this excuse, as our Naglfar print is in continual production, and has performed the worst of any of the carriers. Since we commenced building carriers in February we have build only two Nidhoggur, one of which was for a character that only flies Minmatar ships (poor sap!).
Whatever the arguments advanced for this bonus it remains the fact that most carriers are purchased by individuals and very few, I feel, wish to spend 1 billion plus on being a safe spot healer.
I can safely predict that if TomB does a printout of Carriers in game in a year's time the wooden spoon will definitely be the Nidhoggur's by a large margin unless a more sellable bonus is given to the ship.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.06 07:17:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Swethren
Originally by: smallgreenblur
How does that help when the fighters are orbiting too fast to hit things properly...
sgb
Train the tracking skills for em?
i highly recamend 5 to 7.5% to repair amount affecting both armour and shield reps
turning the minmatar carrier into the "Healer" of the carriers
You do realise that, cap use aside, that's the exact bonus they have already, right?
you do realise your wroung right?
how is a reduction of 5% secs for the cycle time on arrays per lvl that same as
7.5% to amount repaired for remote and capital reps per lvl???
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.06 07:38:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 06/04/2006 07:41:11
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
turning the minmatar carrier into the "Healer" of the carriers
pleas no, ill rather stab myself in face than be a healer in carrier.
Ill sit in SS with 5 drone controlls and wish i trained for thanatos, rather than expose my ass in combat without any sufficient bonus to do so.
Damage or tracking bonus to MINMATAR CARRIERS!
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.04.06 08:08:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 06/04/2006 07:41:11
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
turning the minmatar carrier into the "Healer" of the carriers
pleas no, ill rather stab myself in face than be a healer in carrier.
Ill sit in SS with 5 drone controlls and wish i trained for thanatos, rather than expose my ass in combat without any sufficient bonus to do so.
Damage or tracking bonus to MINMATAR CARRIERS!
5% bonus to fighter tracking is a very good idea.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.06 11:44:00 -
[120]
well there all nice ideas but seeing as how the devs don't care i give up
COME HERE CRAPY BONUS, I WILL LOVE YOU!
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Hygelac
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Posted - 2006.04.06 13:17:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Hygelac on 06/04/2006 13:17:34
...
You can restrict this sort of behaviour to Carriers/Motherships and Titans by creating a module called 'Signature Masking Link' which can only be fitted on these ships (Hi-slot), without a Signature masking link the 'Signature Masking Emmiter' modules will not stack. So still a useful module, but only 1 reduction of 20% will ever be effective.
I'm belabouring the point here, but the gist of my argument is some sort of method of making Capital ships survive when called primary, except for other capital ships.
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Hygelac
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Posted - 2006.04.06 13:17:00 -
[122]
There is a lot of talk of 'all out war' in the description of the Carrier but I've not really seen a carrier used for anything other than Hauling or sitting at a POS. This one applies to all Carriers.
The problem is that if you send it in the middle of a Battleship fleet, it won't last very long when 50 battleships all focus fire on it. The result is that very few pilots will want to risk it in a large size conflict. Smaller skirmishes are a completely different story.
It's very clear that the Minnie bonus is wrong, there's no question about it and the reasoned arguments of this thread only serve to highlight that fact.
However I think the question should not be "OMGMinniBonusSuxx" but rather, 'How can these ships take an effective role in the centre of battle?'. Because right now these ships are glorified logistics ships and work better at a safespot/pos than in a fleet proper and having spent months training for the ship only to find that my best use is not fighting at all, I feel kind of empty inside.
I've a number of ideas that might change this:
Rework the bonuses to include armour/shield resistance bonuses?
Increasing the resists will make for a much more tankable ship, could such a vessel achieve greater longevity in a fleet fight? With greater native resistances, the ship would last a long longer in a fire-fight
Warhammer 'Command Rule'
When I was younger I played a lot of Warhammer including Warhammer Epic. In these games each army would have a command unit which was invulnerable to all but area effect weapons unless the troops it was commanding were all dead. I think a direct implementation of something like this would be waaaay to powerful and prone to exploitation though. Additionally I wonder if something like this would usurp the role of Tech2 Battlecruisers?
Make Carriers more difficult to 'lock'?
A variant of the Command rule would be to include some kind of native ability *not* to be targeted. Say something like a 50% likelihood of targeting failure with +5% per level. I.e. when another ship attempts to target the Carrier there's a % chance that 'Targeting Fails' or 'Target Invulnerable'. Of course, there's nothing preventing you from attempting lock again. Capital ships should be immune from this sort of thing.
Something like this would make it VERY difficult to insta-pop a carrier at the centre of the fleet. Eventually the enemy fleet will have a lock on the Carrier and be able to shoot it, but the time wasted while the whole fleet tries to relock the carrier will have a massive impact on the outcome of the combat.
Carrier 'invulnerability' modules
Another variant of preventing people from instantly taking down a Carrier, or any other command ship really. How about an Electronic Warfare module which you target on a Capital ship, which prevents other ships from locking it. For example. 5 Battleships in your fleet gimp their setup to fit a 'Remote Signature Masking Emitter', massive CPU and grid requirements means that these ships will have to sacrifice a large portion of their offensive and defensive capabilities.
The Fleet warps into engage the enemy, the 5 Battleships target the Carrier and activate the modules on the Carrier. Each of these modules reduces the Carrier's Signature radius by 20% without stacking penalty.
While these ships survive the Carrier has a Sig Radius of '0' and cannot be targeted. However, you take out one of these battleships and the signature radius is up to 80% of original. The Carrier can now be locked (eventually) and hit (to a degree).
Something along these lines would promote 'taking out the support' first, the Carrier would be a very survivable vessel. And the enemy fleet commander will need to take careful stock of the formation of the enemy ships, the ships closest to the carrier are more likely to be the ones masking the signature and will be the focus of fire.
...
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.06 14:12:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Swethren
Originally by: smallgreenblur
How does that help when the fighters are orbiting too fast to hit things properly...
sgb
Train the tracking skills for em?
i highly recamend 5 to 7.5% to repair amount affecting both armour and shield reps
turning the minmatar carrier into the "Healer" of the carriers
You do realise that, cap use aside, that's the exact bonus they have already, right?
you do realise your wroung right?
how is a reduction of 5% secs for the cycle time on arrays per lvl that same as
7.5% to amount repaired for remote and capital reps per lvl???
Do the math. The important number is damage repaired/s. A 5% bonus to the amount repaired per second gives you 25% extra damage repaired per second. On a capital remote rep doing 200/s normally, that gives you 250/s repair. A 5% reduction in cycle means you repair the same amount per cycle but each cycle is shorter. Rather than 2000HP/10s, you're getting 2000HP/7.5s, which works out as 266HP/s. A 5% cycle time reduction bonus allows you to heal more damage per second than a 5% boost in repair amount per cycle bonus would.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.06 14:36:00 -
[124]
but who wants to train for a carrier only to spend their lifes reping others thats no fun at all.
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Velius Donegal
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Posted - 2006.04.06 14:59:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Swethren
Edited by: Swethren on 05/04/2006 11:18:32
Caldari Fighter - dragonfly
Shield: 3000
Armour: 2750
Amarr Fighter - templar
Shield: 2250
Armour: 3750
Gallente Fighter - firbolg
Shield: 2500
Armour: 3000
Minmatar Fighter - einherji
Shield: 2750
Armour: 3250
Notice how you the amarr fighters are the 2nd BEST in both shield AND armour and your better than Gallente on both fronts, not to mention your fighters are the fastest so should technically take less dmg
You get your carrie bonus, when you fighters take a nerf, mkay?
Swethren
You realize that any carriers can use any fighters, right? Because the people I know who have Thanatos carriers use Einherjis.
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Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.04.06 15:12:00 -
[126]
You spin me right round
i am ***
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.07 08:04:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Spartan239
You spin me right round
i am ***
.....ok then 
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.08 01:20:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
but who wants to train for a carrier only to spend their lifes reping others thats no fun at all.
I would/amand i'll like it too.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.08 02:47:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 08/04/2006 02:52:54
how many of you who post in here that "remote repping boni is fine" have actualy flown a carrier in a fleet situation?
I happened to do so, in EC-P8R
I was one of the carriers taking on TRUST pos when abaut 40 G warpped on us.
there were abaut 8 dredds and 5 carriers, 3 Thanatoses, arcohn and silly me in nidhoggur.
Now, strictly from my personal experience, ther capital remote reppers dont repair nearly well to be actualy worth the cap drain.
Majority of us were fitted with heavy nosses.
Now there were no need for repping, as none of us were reciving anykind of critical damage. And in that situation, where we were workign in fast phased order, with molle giving us orders in TS is dont thaink anykind 5% remote repairing bonus whuld make any notabel diference.
Ability to repell 20% more damage or cause 40% of it more, served much more purpose in that situation, than piddly 20% to cycle rate (2 secs off cycle ).
The lag, locking time and many other factors just compleetly eradicates any benefit from it in combat situation! So much for battlefield repairing.
5 thanathosses whuld do much beter than 5 nidhoggurs;
they still can pack 1-2 repairer as just-in-case equipment to repair the primary target.
If the target is reciving firepower that requires repairing ability of more than 2x5=10 remote repairers, its simpply a gankkfleet, and remote repairing wont do you any good, as they can just change primary and instagibb it! That is, if you manage to lock and repair it from the first vollies wich is realy unlikely.
Adition to the repairing, the thanatos dishes out aprox 40% more raw DP/S on reasonable lvl 4 carrier. that means the 9 fighters (with fighter lvl 4) pretty much instagibs Battleships on sight.
Thats 40% more ability to remove damage dealing objekts, and less the repair stress on to your ships - so what is realy repairing beter
So unless it is somesort pre-calcuated sentry tankking scenario in 0.4, the bonus of nidhoggur serve little purpose - Also it drains your cap that much faster .
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.08 03:12:00 -
[130]
well it would be nice get a dev reply for this, but we all know they don't give a **** about it
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Kashre
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Posted - 2006.04.08 03:57:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Kashre on 08/04/2006 03:58:37
I didn't read this thread, because it makes me cry. But here's my 2 cents anyways:
Every carrier should have this as the bonus: +10% damage per level for racial fighter, +5% per level for other races fighters.
If changing the bonuses on all the fighters too much (and I can just hear the Gallente snarfing their escargot in outrage now) then I like the idea posted earlier for a jump range bonus. That would make them much more mobile but less combat effective, a tradeoff I could live with.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.08 05:42:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
well it would be nice get a dev reply for this, but we all know they don't give a **** about it
I highly doubt that. We don't know what they are doing atm except working on code and business infrastructure to keep EVE's future alive. But... lets just stop what they are doing to get one ship 10-20 people in EVE fly fixed.... right.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.08 06:01:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
well it would be nice get a dev reply for this, but we all know they don't give a **** about it
I highly doubt that. We don't know what they are doing atm except working on code and business infrastructure to keep EVE's future alive. But... lets just stop what they are doing to get one ship 10-20 people in EVE fly fixed.... right.
exatly **** everyone else and fix that ship please!!! 
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.08 09:01:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 08/04/2006 09:02:05
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
well it would be nice get a dev reply for this, but we all know they don't give a **** about it
I highly doubt that. We don't know what they are doing atm except working on code and business infrastructure to keep EVE's future alive. But... lets just stop what they are doing to get one ship 10-20 people in EVE fly fixed.... right.
exatly **** everyone else and fix that ship please!!!
yes pleas Frack everyone and fix our toys, we are paying customers...
But before that, look in mirrors, Devs, and think; what went wrong when you were choosing randomly bonuses to carriers, prolly drunk >__>
In future, try to avoid this kind of BS, and you wont have as many whining treads.
You fracekd over not only the minmatars pilots, but also the industrials who got the minmatar carrier/mothershios bpo's - sideways.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.08 11:13:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Kashre
Edited by: Kashre on 08/04/2006 03:58:37
I didn't read this thread, because it makes me cry. But here's my 2 cents anyways:
Every carrier should have this as the bonus: +10% damage per level for racial fighter, +5% per level for other races fighters.
If changing the bonuses on all the fighters too much (and I can just hear the Gallente snarfing their escargot in outrage now) then I like the idea posted earlier for a jump range bonus. That would make them much more mobile but less combat effective, a tradeoff I could live with.
Or as someone stated before:
5% to racial fighter damage + 5% actual bonus.
Now on Chimerra and archon its 5% to racial fighters damage and 5% to resistances.
On thanatos its 5% to racial and 5% to all fighters damage = making it still 10% if it uses firablogs and 5% if it uses others, Not so RETARDETLY overpowered, comparing 10% on Einherjis, wich are considereblty best fighres, mixed with templars.
On nidhoggur, a 5% to racial fighter damage and 5% to all fighters tracking.
This whuld make 2 tankking Carriers, able to work in frontline, and 2 carriers that are beter to keep out of front line yet still do well.
Now we got one carrier to rule them all.
Oh and Stuff the remote repping in uranus allredy! Sideways!
Remote Repairing Is not AND never will BE viable in EVE unless you get;
A: 100km + Range on them
B: Instalock
C: Beter health managment systems to ACTUALY see who needs the repping.
D: Repairer repairs Before cycletime ends, and reloads acording it, not repairing only after the cycle ends.
E: All above
EVE =! yer olde goodly poo WoW where you can "white mage" peoples araund >__>
Whoever came up with remote repairing stuff in eve needs to go play the damn game and try it out.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.09 10:35:00 -
[136]
well still no dev reply
how about fixing all carriers?
Thanatos
5% bonus to fighter damg, 5% to racal figher damg per lvl
Archon
5% bonus to armour resistances per lvl, 5% bonus to racal fighter damg per lvl
Chimera
5% bonus to Sheild resistances per lvl, 5% bonus to racal fighter damg per lvl
Nighoggur
5% bonus to Fighter tracking per lvl, 5% bonus to racal fighter damg per lvl
hows that sound?
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Emno
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Posted - 2006.04.09 10:42:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
hows that sound?
balanced
tho caldari should be the ones doing loads of damage going by Linkage + Linkage
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:03:00 -
[138]
Just give the nidhoggur 5% damage per level and suddenly every minmatar will be happy. Well, I'll still train for a thanatos but meh.
It's not only the nidhoggur that needs fixing. I'd love to be able to use 4 freaking guns on the naglfar, and MAYBE have the ability to fit citadel torps if i wanted to use them.
Oh wait, too bad the new trend is to force everyone to train for stinking missile skills.
Originally by: KilROCK
I make sigs, evemail me if interested.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:10:00 -
[139]
ohhh thats another idea
add 4 turret slots to the Nidhoggur and 5 to the Hel
change the bouns to 7.5 reduction to rof per lvl
mmmmm
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:08:00 -
[140]
ffs, devs, say something
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.09 23:03:00 -
[141]
Isn¦t the naglfar one of most damaging dreads with his four highs?Honest question because i'am training for one 
As for the minmatar carrier its poo i will never train for that.
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Princess Beefcurtains
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Posted - 2006.04.10 03:33:00 -
[142]
I fly a Nid, and I say "Make it Uber Alles!" cause we need some love
I say... ehm... forget bonus completely and make it able to fit 2 turrets ftw j/k, but seriously, no matter what people say, its a totally pointless bonus as to keep even 2 going for any length of time you need to have like 5+ cap II fitted which means your lock time is **** so you actually loose more time than you gain cause it takes you like 10 sec to lock a bs. If for any reason you need to tank as well as transfer, you need all your mids for cap mods. maybe, just maybe, if you made the cap recharge a crapload faster or made the cap 3x bigger it could fit this 'role' its been supposedly given, which still leaves it the most vulnerable carrier by far.
To those who have never fought in fleet battles or large gang engagements, one thing that is sure is this: Targets are called out by the gang/squad leader, these targets then have fire concentrated on them. What ship the hostile leader chooses can be guessed but not known so with carrier in field the bonus is useless cause you cant be ready to rep every one and also concentrated fire = dead ship in next to no time anyways. Having the carrier at a SS to remote rep ships returning from battle is pointless also as 9/10 a ship thats been shot at is killed or scram and cant get out anyways so the only ones you get come back 9/10 are the guys who ran away and have no damage anyways. Which leaves us with repping other cap ships like other carriers... but why would you need to do that in a ss and how would that help in the least in battle when it means your left the most vuln target cause you use all your cap repping another ship which already has a bonus to protect itself.
The bonus is useless, there is no argument, its 100% pointless and in fact worstens the carrier if used.
FIN
UNHAXXORABLE TECH II SIG
OMGWTFh4xX0rPwn3dBBQ!!!111elevenone ~kieron |
Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.04.10 03:58:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Lonectzn on 10/04/2006 03:58:55
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
A: 100km + Range on them
B: Instalock
C: Beter health managment systems to ACTUALY see who needs the repping.
D: Repairer repairs Before cycletime ends, and reloads acording it, not repairing only after the cycle ends.
E: All above
Since I can't fly a carrier (yet) can't comment with much credibility. However that don't stop me commenting =)
A: Would be nice, doesn't need to be that high though
B: True, but better would be a way of repping without locking.
C: Hell yeah!!!
D: Or just reduce the cycle time (and other stats accordingly) to a couple seconds.
-----------------
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.10 05:56:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Pesadel0
Isn¦t the naglfar one of most damaging dreads with his four highs?Honest question because i'am training for one
As for the minmatar carrier its poo i will never train for that.
Not anymore,
Guess what happened since the release of sentry gun drones ;)?
Yes, the Moros can outdamage Nafglafar hands down, sideways.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Porro
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Posted - 2006.04.10 06:29:00 -
[145]
Just a tad offtopic but I thought id bite. The moros can't use its drones on a pos, which is what dreadnaughts are for; pos killing. They're not very useful/cost effective in a fleet battle.
and looking at the nidhoggur bonus it does seem a bit weird :(
----------------------------------------------------
(22:01:14) (Sangxianc) you, porro, have madder skillzors than i, sang, do
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.10 07:14:00 -
[146]
as far as i know you can use sentry drones on a pos
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Princess Beefcurtains
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Posted - 2006.04.10 07:16:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
as far as i know you can use sentry drones on a pos
you can but the pos will pop them soon as it switches target to them
UNHAXXORABLE TECH II SIG
OMGWTFh4xX0rPwn3dBBQ!!!111elevenone ~kieron |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.04.10 07:20:00 -
[148]
Moros > Naglfar, hands down.
CCP kinda owned most minmatar specced pilots by adding those stupid half/half turret/missile.
Just 5 ogre II with level 4 dread skill + level 5 drone skills and you do 977DPS.
The DPS of sentry drones might be lower, but it's still a huge chunk of 800DPS ++
Well, you can only have 20 heavy drones, oh yea... Only 
Originally by: KilROCK
I make sigs, evemail me if interested.
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.04.10 07:55:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Thanatos
5% bonus to fighter damg, 5% to racal figher damg per lvl
Archon
5% bonus to armour resistances per lvl, 5% bonus to racal fighter damg per lvl
Chimera
5% bonus to Sheild resistances per lvl, 5% bonus to racal fighter damg per lvl
Nighoggur
5% bonus to Fighter tracking per lvl, 5% bonus to racal fighter damg per lvl
hows that sound?
That is a super duper idea , Minnes get a usefull bonus , Thanatos is nerfed sllightly and the other carriers is brought in line with Thanatos.
Oh and i do not wanna sound like im sucking up to GM¦s, but they do read these boards so lets keep it civil and act like adults, we just continue to plead our case and eventually their eyes will open.
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.10 07:59:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Pesadel0
Isn¦t the naglfar one of most damaging dreads with his four highs?Honest question because i'am training for one
As for the minmatar carrier its poo i will never train for that.
Not anymore,
Guess what happened since the release of sentry gun drones ;)?
Yes, the Moros can outdamage Nafglafar hands down, sideways.
Why train for other carriers then?Because as i see it the moros kicks ass ,i knew it was going to be like this, now i feel depressed
I dont fly the dread yet but man ,do i feel i'am on a road to self destruction
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.04.10 08:03:00 -
[151]
Hmm, All fighters to the same DPS..
I think it would be a pretty lame idea to just make everyone have a Racial damage bonus and have the Gallente have still 2 damage bonus.
Gallente 'are' the drone race. This is about minmatar, not everything else.
I wouldn't use templar on a archon. Crappy damage types.
Originally by: KilROCK
I make sigs, evemail me if interested.
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Karazack
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Posted - 2006.04.10 09:48:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Karazack on 10/04/2006 09:50:15
sure, Gallente are the DRONE race but we are talking about
Fighters (= tiny manned spacecrafts) here, not drones
if anything, matari and caldari should have the extra damage bonus for fighters which would make more sense lore wise but still be unbalanced anyway
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.10 11:28:00 -
[153]
so what about changing the bonus to fighter tracking per lvl?
or turning the minnie carrier into a ....damn it whats the word starts with U
by alowing it to fit turrets?
4 XL turrets with a 5 or 7.5% bonus to rof per lvl?
would fit with this "Quite purposefully created
for nothing less than all-out warfare, and quite comfortable
with that fact"
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.04.10 11:59:00 -
[154]
if you want to make the minnie ship a hospital ship soo bad as the devs made it sound, give it a 10% locktime bonus per level. Tho i personally dont think it will really cut it.
Other options would be to add a jumprange bonus, a fuel conservation bunos, a caprecharge bonus (theoretically faster rejumping and better tanking but not really a minnie thing lorewise) or as other suggested get down with another fighter bonus but for the love of god, finally do something. Cant take a dev more then 1 hour to fix the boni to something else.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.10 12:29:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Princess Beefcurtains
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
as far as i know you can use sentry drones on a pos
you can but the pos will pop them soon as it switches target to them
stop talking out of your butt.
POS don lock drones!
Sentrydrones = 100km range
Moros, out damage anyother dredd in:
A: DP/S in general
B: Against smaller targets
Only thing that is moroses draw back, is Hybrid ammo consumption. Thats why relevaions are so popular for pos taking.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.10 12:32:00 -
[156]
Originally by: KilROCK
Hmm, All fighters to the same DPS..
I think it would be a pretty lame idea to just make everyone have a Racial damage bonus and have the Gallente have still 2 damage bonus.
Gallente 'are' the drone race. This is about minmatar, not everything else.
I wouldn't use templar on a archon. Crappy damage types.
They are fighters, acording RP Caldari got pilots with more teticuars than ghaylenttes.
So RP aside! Balance first!
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.10 12:35:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 10/04/2006 12:37:14
Originally by: Kcel Chim
if you want to make the minnie ship a hospital ship soo bad as the devs made it sound, give it a 10% locktime bonus per level.
I will satab anyone who mention stupid hospital ideas anymore with hot jagged glass shards!
To be able to crate WORKKING hospial ship, you need copleety rework UI and add so many difrent bonuses and change stats to modules.
Not gon work in current EVE build in million years, ever ever ever ever ever.
Stop even thinkking abaut hospital shps and minmatar in same consept!
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Nifel
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Posted - 2006.04.10 12:43:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Kcel Chim
if you want to make the minnie ship a hospital ship soo bad as the devs made it sound, give it a 10% locktime bonus per level. Tho i personally dont think it will really cut it.
Other options would be to add a jumprange bonus, a fuel conservation bunos, a caprecharge bonus (theoretically faster rejumping and better tanking but not really a minnie thing lorewise) or as other suggested get down with another fighter bonus but for the love of god, finally do something. Cant take a dev more then 1 hour to fix the boni to something else.
I'd rather see a reduction in cap use of capital shield/armor transfers as well as a cycle reduction of 10% per level. It'd still stay the same role but it'd be uber for repairing others and we'd finally have a healer type of ship that doesn't suck.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Terradoct
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Posted - 2006.04.10 13:42:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Nifel
I'd rather see a reduction in cap use of capital shield/armor transfers as well as a cycle reduction of 10% per level. It'd still stay the same role but it'd be uber for repairing others and we'd finally have a healer type of ship that doesn't suck.
To heal someone you need to lock it. Carrier locks BS around 10 second w/o SB, in fleet battle BS go dawn under 10 seconds. As was said earler, to make ideal healer-ship you need to rewrite the howl energy/armor/shield trasfer concept. It shouldn't requer a lock in fist, then it should have small cycle time and cap use redueced to match cap/sec usage, proper UI to display HP of your gang mats that you are supporting. Only after that we could talk about such bonuses, right now they are useless.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.10 15:40:00 -
[160]
Please, lets keep all Cariers equaly able to remote repair: Suck a it
If we try to create singe hospital ship wit current eve UI,
result will be 3 good carriers and one tat suck, (aka Nidhoggur)
Now i sall stab you with hot jagged glass for mentioning remoterepaifring bonuses and hospital ship.
All carrier got bonus to remote repairing. lets keep them equaly well repaing, and keep em combat worthy.
Other wice we get one to rule them all. Thanatos.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.11 07:00:00 -
[161]
And wtf this is doing in 4th Page?
I dont get it, devs mentality is, if 40% of EVE population dont use it, the problem does not exist?
Get your heads out of the beer keg and visit us in this tread pleas.
This way many peoples will atleast be happy to have official anwser of what will come.
By many i mean:
A; Minnie players.
B; Carrier builders.
And me!
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.11 07:10:00 -
[162]
and me!
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.04.11 08:22:00 -
[163]
Min carrier with a bonus to tracking would be sweet. It'd drop just about anything smaller rather quickly. Would be great as an escort for the heavy hitting dreads and the anti battleship carriers.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.11 09:28:00 -
[164]
I say make it 7.5% to Shield Boost efficiency per level and damage -OR- tracking to its racial fighters. That would make it very well suited as what it is intended for... All out war.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.11 09:35:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I say make it 7.5% to Shield Boost efficiency per level and damage -OR- tracking to its racial fighters. That would make it very well suited as what it is intended for... All out war.
ahem thats 7.5% to shield boost AND armour rep effieciency, some of us armour tank our carriers
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.11 09:48:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 11/04/2006 09:49:12
Originally by: Boonaki
Min carrier with a bonus to tracking would be sweet. It'd drop just about anything smaller rather quickly. Would be great as an escort for the heavy hitting dreads and the anti battleship carriers.
As we stated before, every carrier needs a bonus to racial fighter, to encourage using it as primary.
I realy hate the idea of thanathos getting 10% damage bonus on EM/Thermal Explosive /Kinetik damage combination, of what it get from Templar/Einherji combination.
I can live with idea of thanathos getting full 10% from Firablogs and 5% from others.
Also the 5% to tracking fits minmatars and einherjis realy well. After all, Minnie carrier dont deal nber damage, and it dont tank yber due to smallest cap.
Tankking bonuses are also fitting for caldari and Amarr, as they can preform much beter under heavy fire, and amarr can actualy use remote reppers due to its huge cap.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.11 10:18:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 11/04/2006 09:49:12
Originally by: Boonaki
Min carrier with a bonus to tracking would be sweet. It'd drop just about anything smaller rather quickly. Would be great as an escort for the heavy hitting dreads and the anti battleship carriers.
As we stated before, every carrier needs a bonus to racial fighter, to encourage using it as primary.
I realy hate the idea of thanathos getting 10% damage bonus on EM/Thermal Explosive /Kinetik damage combination, of what it get from Templar/Einherji combination.
I can live with idea of thanathos getting full 10% from Firablogs and 5% from others.
Also the 5% to tracking fits minmatars and einherjis realy well. After all, Minnie carrier dont deal nber damage, and it dont tank yber due to smallest cap.
Tankking bonuses are also fitting for caldari and Amarr, as they can preform much beter under heavy fire, and amarr can actualy use remote reppers due to its huge cap.
agreed
it makes perfect sense that you get a bonus to using your racel fighters over other ones
i mean amarr fighters on a minmatar carrier? yeah **** the whole backstory
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.11 12:36:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I say make it 7.5% to Shield Boost efficiency per level and damage -OR- tracking to its racial fighters. That would make it very well suited as what it is intended for... All out war.
ahem thats 7.5% to shield boost AND armour rep effieciency, some of us armour tank our carriers
ahem... no. Train tactical shield man. to 5 like all the rest of us. I will armor tank a Naglfar and shield tank a Nidhoggur. You should be used to dual skilling by now
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.11 12:40:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
i mean amarr fighters on a minmatar carrier? yeah **** the whole backstory
Me thinks you have a gross neglect of the ongoing story of EVE. There is a vast thing called 'open market' that is established that can inject itself into the 'history' of EVE. Your lack of imagination is the only thing ****ing on the backstory.
If pilots of Matar want to buy amarr ships they should do so. However, I do agree that ship bonus should not step on the storylines.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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SIGMA KAPPA
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Posted - 2006.04.11 13:05:00 -
[170]
I cant believe the devs are so quiet on this glaring imbalance.
In fact, the general amount of effort put into balance in this game is pathetic - we got dozens of different ships, weapons, modules, yet we usually see only two or three balance related fixes per patch...
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Saladin
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Posted - 2006.04.11 13:21:00 -
[171]
I think in this discussion we should just stick to the basic bonuses of the ships. It is stupid to argue that minnie carrier's bonuses are good when you have this mod or this implant installed. The other carrier pilots can get similar boosts to their bonuses through implants and links as well.
----
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.11 13:38:00 -
[172]
Originally by: SIGMA KAPPA
I cant believe the devs are so quiet on this glaring imbalance.
In fact, the general amount of effort put into balance in this game is pathetic - we got dozens of different ships, weapons, modules, yet we usually see only two or three balance related fixes per patch...
Who are you to say the effort is pathetic? Have you played the other MMOs recently? EVE is the most balanced game on the market and their development cycle is on par with any other MMO out there. Not only that... but player skill comes down to a lot of things in EVE. Ever have a Muninn owned by a SAC ? It can be done if the right person is at the helm. Ever have a vaga owned by a zealot? You'd think with the res stats on matari HACs would be unkillable by Amarr HACs but... if the right hands it can be done.
And next time... post with your main if you wanna make stupid comments about the development cycle of EVE.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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SIGMA KAPPA
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Posted - 2006.04.11 14:46:00 -
[173]
Quote:
Have you played the other MMOs recently? EVE is the most balanced game on the market and their development cycle is on par with any other MMO out there.
Just look at the patch notes of about any MMO, and youll see dozens of tweaks to this class and that module, this ability and this item etc.
Now, I agree that the great thing about EvE is that you are not restricted that much to a certain choice, so imbalances are less hurting.
In WoW we would have seen a forum riot if you actually had players that chose a typhoon as "character", in EvE players simply move on. This means that you can switch to vagabond and tempest and dont need to bother that much about the gimped munnin or the gimped phoon. Or about Minmatar carriers. Or sucky logistics ships in general. Or overpowered precision missiles, and underpowered Gallente CS.
So while I agree that in the short term fixing imbalances is not that urgent, I certainly believe that in the long term it greatly reduces fun and variety of gameplay, to the same extent as in those class based systems, where you would, in the long run, also diversify your choices by creating more characters.
I dont want to discuss every specific imbalance in the game. But the simple facts are
a) we have hundreds of modules
b) dozens of ships
c) constant additions and alterations to these choices
and yet we only see very few patch notices about buffs/nerfs.
We certainly have general overhauls at huge intervals. Nevertheless, even these overhauls introduce new imbalances and have very long response times. The Blasterthron is now finally being fixed after how long?
Instead of rushing in new content, like done now with the blatantly obvious Gallente drone bonuses, the devs should take a break and change it so that every ship and every module gets an important role in combat.
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Orvy
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Posted - 2006.04.11 15:18:00 -
[174]
Guys please don't feed the troll, lets stay on the topic.
I do agree that minnie carrier would be nice with a bonus to tracking. I don't have neither capability nor money to fly one yet but even so I can say that the current bonus is ridiculous comparing to other races counterparts.
To developers: Guys if you chose Minmatar to be a versatile race with a stress on mixed weapons systems and speed please think twice about the ship's role/capabilities before releasing it into the game.
______________________________________________
Fighting for perfection of sweets recepies
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.11 15:27:00 -
[175]
I have played WoW, recently got rid of my 60 rouge. I have an active SWG subscription. I have 2 active City of Heroes/Villains subscriptions as well as 3 very active EVE accounts. I know a lot about how to gague changes in MMOs. I don't need to read patch notes to know what is going on in their minds. I know the DEVs are working becuase that is what they get paid to do. You want to talk about imbalance... look at WoW and City of Heroes. You want to look at the lack of foresight into game mechanics... look at SWG.
If you want to talk about constant tweaks then I think you are in the wrong game. When something is not working as intended it gets looked at once it is brought to the attention of the DEVs. Their lack of response imho means that they don't want to address *us* until they have something to say that will be constructive and thought out.
Look at it this way... Since EON issue 1 the capital ships have been in the lime light. They aren't broke. They work as intended, with initial nerfs. We don't play as intended. We make our case to the DEVs to meet us half way in a logical manor. A lot of the posts on carriers have been really just rants about how they aren't what the ranting pilot expected. They made an assumption on how it was to be used and the one they want doesn't work as planned and they can't be bothered to reshape the field of combat to the intended ship role so they whine here.
If you want to get down to brass... there is nothing wrong with the Nidhoggur's bonus. There is only the problem with those who want to use it the way other pilots can use the other races. There are really good ideas in this thread on how to make them all perform similar, yet distinctly different.
Implying the DEVs don't care and pointing to their lack of response is impatience in it's full form.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kedor
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Posted - 2006.04.11 17:17:00 -
[176]
What strike me as odd is that three of the carriers got a bonus that has use in most combat operations. Minmatar one is more situational.
In my mind. If a ship is given a situational ability it should be some what better that a general bonus, to even it out. But this one is just not up there.
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.04.11 21:55:00 -
[177]
kaylana, stop tuuting that horn too often, it gets tiresome.
While i think the devs are doing a good job and often have more important things on their hands than to fix this or that bonus it is obvious that some ships or guns were simply left broken because the devs cba.
As much as adding a deeper meaning or a metaphysical aura to a crappy ship/item might make you sleep at night it still doesnt justify not fixing it.
Just for minmatars there have been "the ugly bastardchilds" ever since and posts after posts have been made. Be it your hot loved typhoon, the jaguar, the munin or the bellicose and now the carriers / motherships.
Same applies to every race.
While im all for adding new content i think ccp should somewhere step on the break and fix existing stuff, especially after advertising "specialisations".
2 years ago with t1 and just megagear and cheap ships it didnt matter if the tempest got ubernerfed because frankly said in 2 weeks you were in an apoc with similar skills or whatever was the flavour of the month.
2 years down the road when u actually spend 3 months training just to find out that your new racial ships are a bad joke you get annoyed.
Balance is always easier if ppl can quickly switch and adapt but the longer a game like eve runs the harder balancing will get because ppl just dont like to pay "a few months" until their specialisations get unnerfed or buffed.
Note that im not bashing their designerteam or their efford, im just saying that their updates are often abit slow and that some stuff could be hotfixed aswell without major issues (like the jaguar or a single ship) which would in return ease alot of pain for the customers.
Tell a gall pilot about blasters and he will tell a painridden lifelong journey which might be fixed "soon tm". These chaps would be much happier if a hotfix would push things abit, maybe not "right down to perfect level" but atleast "some sunlight on the horizon".
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SIGMA KAPPA
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Posted - 2006.04.11 23:18:00 -
[178]
Edited by: SIGMA KAPPA on 11/04/2006 23:19:25
I think the allegation of "impatience" is a bit ironic when we look at some facts. The recent publication of the BS distribution revealed that imbalances with Minmatar BS/Minmatar large guns have already led to a significant reduction of people flying Minnie BS, out of proportion with the fact that Minmatarii are only the third most populous race in EvE. Only 1% of EvE's population fly Typhoons - why introduce a third BS under these circumstances.
Now I understand that Typhoon and Blasterthron get fixed, after almost two years. In my opinion, this timeframe is unacceptable, and well beyond "impatience".
It is not like recognizing and fixing these imbalances is rocket science. There are some imbalances on which most players agree - why not providing very small buffs/nerfs from patch to patch to remove them?
Thereby CCP would eliminated the risk of "overshooting", which is much more present with the general overhaul strategy.
Quote:
Look at it this way... Since EON issue 1 the capital ships have been in the lime light. They aren't broke. They work as intended, with initial nerfs. We don't play as intended. We make our case to the DEVs to meet us half way in a logical manor. A lot of the posts on carriers have been really just rants about how they aren't what the ranting pilot expected. They made an assumption on how it was to be used and the one they want doesn't work as planned and they can't be bothered to reshape the field of combat to the intended ship role so they whine here.
Don't underestimate the amount of effort and time EvE players put into this game. They provide intricate spreadsheets, they discuss for hours on forums and generally seem willing to squeeze the last bit out of their options.
This isnt about making some ships perform some nice, funny roles in some niche - this is only about efficiency and game theory. If adding a ship to a fight does not provide utility at least equal to that of other viable alternatives, then, in the long run, this ship wont be fielded. If the utilitiy of some bonuses is completely dominated by other alternatives, then only these alternatives will be taken.
That said, their is no "higher dev purpose" or other "intentions" for us that matter - the people playing the game assign the usefulness of an item to it, not those creating it.
We dont play as intended does not exist, at least not in the long run.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.12 07:35:00 -
[179]
Originally by: SIGMA KAPPA
Now I understand that Typhoon and Blasterthron get fixed, after almost two years. In my opinion, this timeframe is unacceptable, and well beyond "impatience".
It is not like recognizing and fixing these imbalances is rocket science. There are some imbalances on which most players agree - why not providing very small buffs/nerfs from patch to patch to remove them?
Thereby CCP would eliminated the risk of "overshooting", which is much more present with the general overhaul strategy.
Typhoon was once a king of damage in Tire 1 BS's
The good ol time when missiles took only 500k of SP
And while i agree that with overhauls, some ships were overlooked, the general balance is still best ever, if you look 2 years back.
Originally by: SIGMA KAPPA
Don't underestimate the amount of effort and time EvE players put into this game. They provide intricate spreadsheets, they discuss for hours on forums and generally seem willing to squeeze the last bit out of their options.
This isnt about making some ships perform some nice, funny roles in some niche - this is only about efficiency and game theory. If adding a ship to a fight does not provide utility at least equal to that of other viable alternatives, then, in the long run, this ship wont be fielded. If the utilitiy of some bonuses is completely dominated by other alternatives, then only these alternatives will be taken.
That said, their is no "higher dev purpose" or other "intentions" for us that matter - the people playing the game assign the usefulness of an item to it, not those creating it.
We dont play as intended does not exist, at least not in the long run.
Altho you are trolling in here, i agree compleetly with the poin that if some utility is beter than other in to wide field, no other than the "best" will be fieldet.
We'v seen that in NPC/agentrunning 3m SP ravens
Now we are seeing that in carriers. i dear to say that good half of all eves carriers are galentte...
And oh *gasp* first player build motherships are galentte ones... i WONDER why
Now, Back to the minmatar issue.
Beef Nidhoggur!
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.12 07:46:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
ahem thats 7.5% to shield boost AND armour rep effieciency, some of us armour tank our carriers
ahem... no. Train tactical shield man. to 5 like all the rest of us. I will armor tank a Naglfar and shield tank a Nidhoggur. You should be used to dual skilling by now
ohhhh so i have to train sheild skills to use it...why?
why can't i armour tank it, like all other minnie ships i fly
tempest typhoon, rupture, wolf, claw?
and its the fact that the bonus to the carrier is sooo crap compared to the other bonus that im complaining about it
**************
THE BONUS TO ARRAYS WITH MINMATAR CARRIER 5 IS A REDUCTION OF 2 SECONDS OUT OF 10!
**************
do i have to amke it any more clearer?
and add that to the crap lock time, low senser strengh, low reisatances and the way arrays work means it crap and should have never been given in the first place
"If you want to get down to brass... there is nothing wrong with the Nidhoggur's bonus. There is only the problem with those who want to use it the way other pilots can use the other races. There are really good ideas in this thread on how to make them all perform similar, yet distinctly different. "
don't go looking looking at % crap look at what the real about is....2 secs thats it 2 ******* **** seconds
now fine and dandie if they want it to be a medic carrier but ffs make it BETTA then the other carriers!
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.12 10:24:00 -
[181]
It's 33% more boost per second. It's four for the price of three. If you can't handle the mathematics of that... *shrug*
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Dampfschlaghammer
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Posted - 2006.04.12 10:32:00 -
[182]
Actually, as has been pointed out, its 11 for the price of 10.
If you want to use carriers for the role of the Minnie bonus, you have to look at all steps involved, not just one substep. In this substep, the bonus is 33%. The whole sequence, however, has merely a 10% reduction.
So, in a fleet, 10 Minnie carriers can do the job of 11 Gallente carriers. At the same time, however, they deal 50% less damage, and run out of cap much quicker...
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.04.12 10:33:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Golan Trevize on 12/04/2006 10:34:07
Minnie carrier will have a very hard time sustaining any form of remote repping with its weak cap.
And if the carrier will be hidden somewhere (boring if you ask me) fighters assigned , the ship in need can warp to it.......sorry but a BS called primary will prolly be tackled and dead before he can think about warping anywhere so again useless.
Supporting your fighters/tacklers with remote reps.......they will be dead before you have a lock.....useless.
So a healing ship isnt a option before you can instalock gang members/drones and the range of the thing is tweaked..
Golan
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.12 10:34:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
It's 33% more boost per second. It's four for the price of three. If you can't handle the mathematics of that... *shrug*
its still 2 seconds, in the grand plain of everything its crap complared to the other carriers bonus's
you ask any carrier pilot, who has flown a carrier in combat, if they think that bonus is worth it what would u think their answer would be?
its still 2 seconds anyway you try to spin it with "oh its 33% faster bahbahbah"
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.12 14:08:00 -
[185]
As I said... *shrug*. It's the same bonus you get for training repair systems V, which is obviously also totally useless - just ask any armour tanker...
As for sacrificing damage, yes of course you're right, by fitting remote shield boosters you're sacrificing high slots which you could load up with smart bombs.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.12 14:19:00 -
[186]
You think ccp would have something to say by now
At this stage i would take bouns to mining laser yeild
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Terradoct
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Posted - 2006.04.12 14:28:00 -
[187]
And if already on that can Dev's change description on all carriers and motherships from "XX% range bonus on shield/energy/armor trasfers array" to "XX% range bonus on capital shield/energy/armor trasfer arrays"
Thank you.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.12 14:53:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Dampfschlaghammer
Actually, as has been pointed out, its 11 for the price of 10.
If you want to use carriers for the role of the Minnie bonus, you have to look at all steps involved, not just one substep. In this substep, the bonus is 33%. The whole sequence, however, has merely a 10% reduction.
So, in a fleet, 10 Minnie carriers can do the job of 11 Gallente carriers. At the same time, however, they deal 50% less damage, and run out of cap much quicker...
WORD!
Tis man for dev!
finaly someone realized this
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Orvy
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Posted - 2006.04.12 15:50:00 -
[189]
I think when this thread gets 20 pages of replies we might persuade developers to devote some time to matari problems
______________________________________________
Fighting for perfection of sweets recepies
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.04.12 16:07:00 -
[190]
I'd be happy with 10% boost to shield resists per level, let the amarr have 10% armor resists, gal 10% damage, min 10% tracking per level.
Min would be able to kill everything.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
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VonKaplanek III
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Posted - 2006.04.12 16:54:00 -
[191]
WoW gReat thread!! but too long by now. I think the real question is "How are people going to be using these awesome ships" Are they going to be used mainly for pure fighter power? I suspect this is the mainstream way of thinking. Possibly they are going to be used as safespot vessels to be able to assign fighters and also be able to quickly repair gang mates....or are carriers gonna be mostly usd for tank/intimidation power and sit in grid during fights. As you can see we have 2 that are uber tankers, 1 with uber fighters and 1 with improved logistics(yes its needs tweaking). I think the classes are perfect! Its just a matter of getting lucky with what BS skill you trained and what your style of play is. All of the carriers rock, and for the most part, those tht are complaining have conflicting invested skills and styles of play.
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Lucas Smaise
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Posted - 2006.04.12 17:17:00 -
[192]
The Niddie needs something - Almost dont care what it is but that bonus is almost worthless to 95 % of Minnie Capital pilots.
This bonus almost makes me sad that I keept the char purely Minnie.
Vote For Nidhoggur!
Lucas Smaise
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.04.12 19:36:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
As I said... *shrug*. It's the same bonus you get for training repair systems V, which is obviously also totally useless - just ask any armour tanker...
As for sacrificing damage, yes of course you're right, by fitting remote shield boosters you're sacrificing high slots which you could load up with smart bombs.
let me guess you dont have a carrier char, no carrier, and you arent close to capitals ships in any way or form ?
Remote repping in eve does not work for some simple reasons.
Sadly they would fill another thread and ill leave you clueless for now.
Smartbombs or a carrier are pretty useless like remote reppers are aswell because the ship itself cant substain its own tank AND repping something else so no matter how you make it sounds the bonus is pointless.
Why do you think logistic ships actually never reached popularity of a hac ? The UI, gamemechanics and way how eve is played doesnt support a weak healership, hence the carrier concept as a "hospital" is flawed right from the start. As a conclusion it means that adding a "healer" bonus to a carrier equals out to just stating "minnie carrier has no bonus sorry".
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.04.12 19:47:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Kcel Chim on 12/04/2006 19:59:30
Originally by: VonKaplanek III
WoW gReat thread!! but too long by now. I think the real question is "How are people going to be using these awesome ships" Are they going to be used mainly for pure fighter power? I suspect this is the mainstream way of thinking. Possibly they are going to be used as safespot vessels to be able to assign fighters and also be able to quickly repair gang mates....or are carriers gonna be mostly usd for tank/intimidation power and sit in grid during fights. As you can see we have 2 that are uber tankers, 1 with uber fighters and 1 with improved logistics(yes its needs tweaking). I think the classes are perfect! Its just a matter of getting lucky with what BS skill you trained and what your style of play is. All of the carriers rock, and for the most part, those tht are complaining have conflicting invested skills and styles of play.
there is no !quick repairing gangm8s" with carriers and no i dont have conflicting skills. Healing does not work in eve unless it is in really really small gangs (where the damage taken gives enough time for the reppers to kick in and a healer can actually lock all gangm8s). Largescale battles, which would justify the use of a carrier neither give the carrier pilot those advantages needed to successfully influence the outcome nor does it give ppl enough time to even call for help / healing due to the huge amounts of instant dmg bashing in.
an onirosw with 2 large named reppers and 1 med nos t2 and 1 med named repper will prolly heal more efficient and quicker aswellm considering the locktime difference and with maxed out skills can support this tank repairs forever with just 4 caprechargers t2, a sensorbooster t2 and 4 rcu t2. Thats 1500 armor / 8 secs nonstop. far more efficent tbh.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.12 19:57:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 12/04/2006 20:00:43
[Stupid RL analogy]
Remote repairing works in EVE as well as it does in Real wars or WWII.
*hint* It doesen't
Like the Carrier repairing remotly the BB Arizona while japanes destroyers torpedet it!
Man that was tought tank to brake for japanese!
But eventyaly they figred that arizona was not tankked against Kawaii and loadet torps with hentai - Hence it sank.
[/Stupid RL analogy]
EvE is to fast phased game for anything like that!
Shure after combat even a Small armor repairer can pach up fully a BS, making carrier repairing even more redundant.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Deros
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Posted - 2006.04.12 21:01:00 -
[196]
i love that while the minmatar carrier is borked so so badly, and the gall/amarr carriers get resistances added on, and can tank to hell, they also have "racially" bigger caps due supposedly to the amount required for their "guns"
guns?? exactly, so why is there this huge difference on the capacitors of the carriers?
archon >> 43250
nidhoggur >> 35000
note that is pre skills, so add another 25% to each.
EVEN IF the bonus to reduce cycle time of the reps was useful on the nidhoggur, it would not matter, because they have a guy in a archon tanked better, and repping both his ship and his gang's ships for longer.
lovely
D
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.12 23:42:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
As I said... *shrug*. It's the same bonus you get for training repair systems V, which is obviously also totally useless - just ask any armour tanker...
As for sacrificing damage, yes of course you're right, by fitting remote shield boosters you're sacrificing high slots which you could load up with smart bombs.
let me guess you dont have a carrier char, no carrier, and you arent close to capitals ships in any way or form ?
Remote repping in eve does not work for some simple reasons.
Sadly they would fill another thread and ill leave you clueless for now.
Smartbombs or a carrier are pretty useless like remote reppers are aswell because the ship itself cant substain its own tank AND repping something else so no matter how you make it sounds the bonus is pointless.
Why do you think logistic ships actually never reached popularity of a hac ? The UI, gamemechanics and way how eve is played doesnt support a weak healership, hence the carrier concept as a "hospital" is flawed right from the start. As a conclusion it means that adding a "healer" bonus to a carrier equals out to just stating "minnie carrier has no bonus sorry".
All I'm saying that as a remote boost bonus it's not nearly as bad as people are making out. If you want to do remote shield boosting the bonus makes a big difference. If you don't, well, you don't, that's fine.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.13 07:42:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
As I said... *shrug*. It's the same bonus you get for training repair systems V, which is obviously also totally useless - just ask any armour tanker...
As for sacrificing damage, yes of course you're right, by fitting remote shield boosters you're sacrificing high slots which you could load up with smart bombs.
let me guess you dont have a carrier char, no carrier, and you arent close to capitals ships in any way or form ?
Remote repping in eve does not work for some simple reasons.
Sadly they would fill another thread and ill leave you clueless for now.
Smartbombs or a carrier are pretty useless like remote reppers are aswell because the ship itself cant substain its own tank AND repping something else so no matter how you make it sounds the bonus is pointless.
Why do you think logistic ships actually never reached popularity of a hac ? The UI, gamemechanics and way how eve is played doesnt support a weak healership, hence the carrier concept as a "hospital" is flawed right from the start. As a conclusion it means that adding a "healer" bonus to a carrier equals out to just stating "minnie carrier has no bonus sorry".
All I'm saying that as a remote boost bonus it's not nearly as bad as people are making out. If you want to do remote shield boosting the bonus makes a big difference. If you don't, well, you don't, that's fine.
wtf are you smoking!!!
its still 2 seconds, and thats at carrier 5!!!
how the **** can it make a big difference!?
its as bad as we are making it out to be!
"let me guess you dont have a carrier char, no carrier, and you arent close to capitals ships in any way or form ?"
thats you mate
1) locking time on a carrier sucks!
2) arrays only work after the set time
3) crap locking time
4) cap use, not enuff cap to run both your own tank and rep other people
5) lag
if you fail to see this you are ether
on drugs
a troll
or hate minmatar
that bonus isn't enuff, all the other bonus would be much more useful then this pos!
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.13 08:39:00 -
[199]
By the way, i dont get peoples thats keep flashing the odd 33% bonus.
Its actualy comes down to 10% on minmatar carrier lvl 5.
Yes, with carrier lvl 5, nidhoggur repair *gasp* 10% more than others.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Darax Thulain
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Posted - 2006.04.13 09:20:00 -
[200]
Well imo the Nidhoggur should lose the crappy bonus and get a new one that resembles their philosphy. Dunno if it has been suggested before(didnt have time to read whole thread) but here goes.
5% fighter velocity/level instead. At least that is semi useful and fighters could do good with more speed.
Darax
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.13 09:53:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
By the way, i dont get peoples thats keep flashing the odd 33% bonus.
Its actualy comes down to 10% on minmatar carrier lvl 5.
Yes, with carrier lvl 5, nidhoggur repair *gasp* 10% more than others.
Can nobody here do maths? I know Alyosius can't handle this chain of reasoning, but I thought he was alone in that.
You get a 5% reduction in cycle time per level. This mean at level 5 you get a 25% reduction in cycle time. This is how bonuses have always worked.
So how does that become a 33% bonus? With and without the bonus, the amount boosted per cycle is the same. However, with the bonus, the cycle is shorter. Therefore, with the bonus you run more cycles (and fractional cycles) in the same time period. Let's say the normal cycle length is 100. The cycle length with bonus is 100-25=75. Therefore, in the time it takes to do a cycle without the bonus (100), you're doing a full cycle and then another 25 of another cycle. 25 is 1/3 of 75, or 33%. So you will indeed find that, in the time you were doing one cycle, you're now doing 1.33 cycles. Hence 33% more repaired per second.
But "ZOMG IT'S ONLY TWO SECONDS", right?
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.04.13 10:32:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
By the way, i dont get peoples thats keep flashing the odd 33% bonus.
Its actualy comes down to 10% on minmatar carrier lvl 5.
Yes, with carrier lvl 5, nidhoggur repair *gasp* 10% more than others.
Can nobody here do maths? I know Alyosius can't handle this chain of reasoning, but I thought he was alone in that.
You get a 5% reduction in cycle time per level. This mean at level 5 you get a 25% reduction in cycle time. This is how bonuses have always worked.
So how does that become a 33% bonus? With and without the bonus, the amount boosted per cycle is the same. However, with the bonus, the cycle is shorter. Therefore, with the bonus you run more cycles (and fractional cycles) in the same time period. Let's say the normal cycle length is 100. The cycle length with bonus is 100-25=75. Therefore, in the time it takes to do a cycle without the bonus (100), you're doing a full cycle and then another 25 of another cycle. 25 is 1/3 of 75, or 33%. So you will indeed find that, in the time you were doing one cycle, you're now doing 1.33 cycles. Hence 33% more repaired per second.
But "ZOMG IT'S ONLY TWO SECONDS", right?
It doesn't matter, it's still pretty much useless. The Cal and Amarr carriers can tank, very well. They can get all their resists to over 80% and the Chimera with a shield boost amp and a cap shield booster can get roughly 8000ish shield boost. That's an 800 DPS tank.
The best anti-capital BS is a raven with rage torps and tech 2 drones, max skills it rates in at 1110 DPS agsint 0 resists on a carrier. With a tech 2 shield resists it drops down to 260 dps, a tech 2 tempest with emp does 100 DPS, arma 136 DPS. So it takes 5-8 battleships to break the tank of a Chimera.
Same type of shield tank on the Nid you have 10% less resists across the board, meaning that rage raven does 377 DPS on a Nid vs 260 DPS on the Chim with less cap and less shield hp's.
If you'd like to take DPS into account. Here's one...
Good skills on a Than give about 1800 DPS, good skills on a Nid gets about a 1000 DPS depending on resists.
With the targeting time on a carrier, it's next to impossible to use the bonus to any length in fleet combat. By the time you target someone and begin remote repping it's dead or warped out.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.13 10:33:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
But "ZOMG IT'S ONLY TWO SECONDS", right?
Yep its still **** and utterley usless
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.13 13:36:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 13/04/2006 13:40:46
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 13/04/2006 13:38:52
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
By the way, i dont get peoples thats keep flashing the odd 33% bonus.
Its actualy comes down to 10% on minmatar carrier lvl 5.
Yes, with carrier lvl 5, nidhoggur repair *gasp* 10% more than others.
Can nobody here do maths? I know Alyosius can't handle this chain of reasoning, but I thought he was alone in that.
You get a 5% reduction in cycle time per level. This mean at level 5 you get a 25% reduction in cycle time. This is how bonuses have always worked.
So how does that become a 33% bonus? With and without the bonus, the amount boosted per cycle is the same. However, with the bonus, the cycle is shorter. Therefore, with the bonus you run more cycles (and fractional cycles) in the same time period. Let's say the normal cycle length is 100. The cycle length with bonus is 100-25=75. Therefore, in the time it takes to do a cycle without the bonus (100), you're doing a full cycle and then another 25 of another cycle. 25 is 1/3 of 75, or 33%. So you will indeed find that, in the time you were doing one cycle, you're now doing 1.33 cycles. Hence 33% more repaired per second.
But "ZOMG IT'S ONLY TWO SECONDS", right?
Are you retardet?
It stills repair ONLY 20% more than any other carrier on lvl 5
5 reppers, with 10 sec of rof repairing 1000 cycle
vs
5 reppers with 8 sec rof repairing 1000 cycle
now do the maths
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Dampfschlaghammer
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Posted - 2006.04.13 14:02:00 -
[205]
Quote:
Can nobody here do maths? I know Alyosius can't handle this chain of reasoning, but I thought he was alone in that.
Can you read the posts in this thread before replying the same nonsense again and again?
The relevant thing is how long it takes to repair a BS, not how long some isolated sub sequence takes.
I dont know how often it has to be repeated. In the whole sequence, the advantage is only 10%, and not 33% and THIS is what matters. People who actually fly Mimatar carriers in combat have pointed out that you already need almost half a minute lock time only. Even in the rare occasion that there is no lag existant, the whole repair process takes a minute. And this simply means that the 2.5 seconds reduction does not matter.
And to obtain roughly 10-15% bonus requires factoring in the higher scan resolution. This is a general bonus of Minmatar ships paid for dearly by things like lower cap (which is a very very bad deal for carriers).
So the observation remains that the bonus sucks under perfect circumstances, is gradually being reduced by things like lag, and stands in no comparison to bonuses other races receive.
So next time, please address these arguments and dont repeat things that have already been refuted pages ago...
Unless, of course, that you have a Minne alt with carrier skills, that simply wants to keep this thread "going" to get more dev attention .
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.13 14:52:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Dampfschlaghammer
The relevant thing is how long it takes to repair a BS
I'm not arguing that point. It is marginal at best in a fleet situtation. I'm just pointing out that the maths being used by some people is wrong.
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 13/04/2006 13:40:46
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 13/04/2006 13:38:52
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
By the way, i dont get peoples thats keep flashing the odd 33% bonus.
Its actualy comes down to 10% on minmatar carrier lvl 5.
Yes, with carrier lvl 5, nidhoggur repair *gasp* 10% more than others.
Can nobody here do maths? I know Alyosius can't handle this chain of reasoning, but I thought he was alone in that.
You get a 5% reduction in cycle time per level. This mean at level 5 you get a 25% reduction in cycle time. This is how bonuses have always worked.
So how does that become a 33% bonus? With and without the bonus, the amount boosted per cycle is the same. However, with the bonus, the cycle is shorter. Therefore, with the bonus you run more cycles (and fractional cycles) in the same time period. Let's say the normal cycle length is 100. The cycle length with bonus is 100-25=75. Therefore, in the time it takes to do a cycle without the bonus (100), you're doing a full cycle and then another 25 of another cycle. 25 is 1/3 of 75, or 33%. So you will indeed find that, in the time you were doing one cycle, you're now doing 1.33 cycles. Hence 33% more repaired per second.
But "ZOMG IT'S ONLY TWO SECONDS", right?
Are you retardet?
It stills repair ONLY 20% more than any other carrier on lvl 5
5 reppers, with 10 sec of rof repairing 1000 cycle
vs
5 reppers with 8 sec rof repairing 1000 cycle
now do the maths
Ok, let's do some maths.
First, 5% a level at level 5 is 25%. 5*5=25. This is not rocket science. This is very very basic mathematics.
25% from 10s is 7.5s
Now, the next bit. 5 lots of 10 second cycles doing 1000 a cycle vs 5 lots of 7.5 second cycles doing 1000 a cycle.
In ten seconds the ship without bonuses does 5000 repair.
In ten seconds the ship with bonuses does 5000 repair in 7.5s and then sits around for two and a half seconds. No, wait, it starts on the next cycle.
In the remaining 2.5s it does a third of a cycle. 7.5/2.5 = 1/3. A third of a cycle is 1000/3 is 333. Multiplied by five reps this is 1666.
In ten seconds the ship with bonuses does 6666 repair.
6666/5000 = 1.3332, ie 33% more. The raw effect of the bonus is that, just taking repairing into account, the minnie carrier with carrier V does 33% more repair per second over time than the other carriers. This is the only point I am making here: the math being employed by some people in this thread is straightforwardly inaccurate.
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Orvy
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Posted - 2006.04.13 14:58:00 -
[207]
Just to make it clear for people who can't bother to read the whole post - problem is not whether a pilot can repair 10% or 33% with a single repairer, problem is that the bonus in general is useless because:
1. You need to lock the target which is taking damage (the target will almost surely die before you even lock it)
2. You need to wait for the repairing cycle to finish (if your target didn't die while u were locking it, it'll die at this phase)
In combat situation this bonus is useless. Once again I don't have a carrier myself, but i do only fly matari ships and i aim to get one in the future. The reasoning behind the argument is not practical experience - its common sence.
Another thing makes me very sad - minmatar's philosophy of war has always been pure offence and speed, and developers deprive our carrier of both and make it a logistic-ship-wannabe heap of scrap metal.
______________________________________________
Fighting for perfection of sweets recepies
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dabster
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Posted - 2006.04.13 15:13:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Darax Thulain
Well imo the Nidhoggur should lose the crappy bonus and get a new one that resembles their philosphy. Dunno if it has been suggested before(didnt have time to read whole thread) but here goes.
5% fighter velocity/level instead. At least that is semi useful and fighters could do good with more speed.
Darax
Well no it would only harm them, fighters dont need speed because they already struggle with hitting cruisers sometimes, and are a waste of time to try and kill frigs with. Making them go faster would make their tracking even worse.
___________________________
Brutors Rule!
My Eve-vids; Click. |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.13 15:24:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 13/04/2006 15:29:49
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Ok, let's do some maths.
First, 5% a level at level 5 is 25%. 5*5=25. This is not rocket science. This is very very basic mathematics.
25% from 10s is 7.5s
Now, the next bit. 5 lots of 10 second cycles doing 1000 a cycle vs 5 lots of 7.5 second cycles doing 1000 a cycle.
In ten seconds the ship without bonuses does 5000 repair.
In ten seconds the ship with bonuses does 5000 repair in 7.5s and then sits around for two and a half seconds. No, wait, it starts on the next cycle.
In the remaining 2.5s it does a third of a cycle. 7.5/2.5 = 1/3. A third of a cycle is 1000/3 is 333. Multiplied by five reps this is 1666.
In ten seconds the ship with bonuses does 6666 repair.
6666/5000 = 1.3332, ie 33% more. The raw effect of the bonus is that, just taking repairing into account, the minnie carrier with carrier V does 33% more repair per second over time than the other carriers. This is the only point I am making here: the math being employed by some people in this thread is straightforwardly inaccurate.
ok, ill go back go school, but while you are at it, can you calculate quikkly me some Thanathos DP/S numbers?
Oh, and as i mentioned before, even if nidhoggur repairs 33% faster it still useless due to oh so many limitations.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.13 15:33:00 -
[210]
Originally by: dabster
Originally by: Darax Thulain
Well imo the Nidhoggur should lose the crappy bonus and get a new one that resembles their philosphy. Dunno if it has been suggested before(didnt have time to read whole thread) but here goes.
5% fighter velocity/level instead. At least that is semi useful and fighters could do good with more speed.
Darax
Well no it would only harm them, fighters dont need speed because they already struggle with hitting cruisers sometimes, and are a waste of time to try and kill frigs with. Making them go faster would make their tracking even worse.
Thanathos: 5% to omni fighter damage, 5% to firablogs
Archon: 5% to resistances 5% to templar dp
Chimerra: 5% resistances 5% Draonflyes dp
Nidhoggur: 5%(7,5%?) to trckking of fighters 5% to einherji dp
Suddenly we have use for all carrirs
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
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Xelios
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Posted - 2006.04.13 16:52:00 -
[211]
It's already been pointed out, but to reiterate the whopping 2.5 seconds saved at level 5 means jack ****. Friend starts taking heavy damage, you lock him, 40 seconds later he finally sees some armor. Either this boost of armor comes in time to save him or he's already dead, the fact that the next cycle will come 2.5 seconds quicker has little bearing on the situation. If he could hold out the 40 seconds until the first cycle he can surely wait the full cycle time of 10 seconds to the next dose of armor.
It's a useless bonus, especially for a Carrier, and especially for a Carrier designed for "all out warfare".
Signature removed. -Zhuge ([email protected])
Woot.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.13 17:38:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Oh, and as i mentioned before, even if nidhoggur repairs 33% faster it still useless due to oh so many limitations.
*possibly* but then again... are you trying to fit a square peg in a round peg hole? Just once will morons on this forum think about other people than the status quo? Just seems to me that people want to Zerg with carriers. Shenanigans to the lot of you. Other people *do* play this game other than the blobbing lemmings.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.13 18:06:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 13/04/2006 18:10:11
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 13/04/2006 18:06:21
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Oh, and as i mentioned before, even if nidhoggur repairs 33% faster it still useless due to oh so many limitations.
*possibly* but then again... are you trying to fit a square peg in a round peg hole? Just once will morons on this forum think about other people than the status quo? Just seems to me that people want to Zerg with carriers. Shenanigans to the lot of you. Other people *do* play this game other than the blobbing lemmings.
stop trolling and taunting other experienced PVP:ers who actualy FLY THE DAMN THINGS!
I, and i bet, abaut all other minmatar players didint train a F**K LOAD of skill just to be a half arsed "hospital" ship without proper UI or game mechanic support, and may be useful once in blue moon!
While all other carriers find practical applications for theye bonuses every damn time they go in action. (aka tank or gank)
Yes my dear, current eve revolves araund DPS and tankability, and some halfassed atempt on creation of hospital ship is not gona change it.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Nifel
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 18:14:00 -
[214]
You guys need to stop thinking about repping bs and start thinking about repping other carriers around you.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Scalor Valentis
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 18:25:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Nifel
You guys need to stop thinking about repping bs and start thinking about repping other carriers around you.
Can be done with... umm any other carriers too, you forget that other carriers can repair too.
And i might add, that 5% to resistances lowers the need for repairing more than 5% to cycling can ever, ever ever ever repair
Also saves cap and, well, generealy is 100134123 times more useful bonus.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 01:19:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Nifel
You guys need to stop thinking about repping bs and start thinking about repping other carriers around you.
Can be done with... umm any other carriers too, you forget that other carriers can repair too.
And i might add, that 5% to resistances lowers the need for repairing more than 5% to cycling can ever, ever ever ever repair
Also saves cap and, well, generealy is 100134123 times more useful bonus.
AMEN BOTHER!
and to this
"*possibly* but then again... are you trying to fit a square peg in a round peg hole? Just once will morons on this forum think about other people than the status quo? Just seems to me that people want to Zerg with carriers. Shenanigans to the lot of you. Other people *do* play this game other than the blobbing lemmings."
WTF are you smoking, carriers are for FLEET FIGHTS
in any case the bonus is utter crap compared to the other carriers
2 of them get 25% to resisants
and one of them out damnges it by 50%
how about just once the monron torlls get a clue
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:19:00 -
[217]
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Wilfan Ret'nub
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Posted - 2006.04.14 16:38:00 -
[218]
Would be remote repping / shield boosting usefull if lock time was 0 when locking gangmates?
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.14 16:58:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Wilfan Ret'nub
Would be remote repping / shield boosting usefull if lock time was 0 when locking gangmates?
Well, that and;
Proper UI that displays gangmates healt in REAL TIME, without odd 10 seconds lagg - like in gangwindow right now.
50+ KM range on remote repairers, preferably 100 + km if you ask me.
The crapairer repairs it Before cycle ends, not after.
and, even if all this is done, minmatar bonus is still usueless as other carriers can repair almost as well and can do many other things beter
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 03:36:00 -
[220]
now if the minnie carrier is gonna be the logistics carrier, why dosn't it follow the same bonus as the Logistic cruser
Basilisk
Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Shield Transfer Array capacitor use and 10% reduction in Energy
Transfer Array capacitor use per level
Guardian
Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Energy Transfer Array capacitor use and 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use per level
Oneiros
Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer capacitor use and 3.5% bonus to Tracking Link
efficiency per level
Scimitar
Logistics Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Link efficiency and 10% reduction in Shield Transfer Array capacitor
use per level
well would you look at that, none of them have a redution in cycle time, all have a reduction in cap use which, no matter how much you try to spin it is 10x betta
it allows you to run the arrays longer and also run your own tank!
while changing the bnous will help,
there still needs to be changes to gangs alowing insta-locking of gang mates and changing it so that arrrays work at the start of the cycle, not the end
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xeom
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Posted - 2006.04.15 04:19:00 -
[221]
Didn't read the whole thread but.
How about 5% to drone speed and sig reduction per level?
Not sure how usefull that would make it,but it seems to be leaning towards the hole minmatar idealogy
----------------------
O Snapz! |
Aloysius Knight
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 05:14:00 -
[222]
Originally by: xeom
Didn't read the whole thread but.
How about 5% to drone speed and sig reduction per level?
Not sure how usefull that would make it,but it seems to be leaning towards the hole minmatar idealogy
maybe to mwd speed, but if you make them orbit faster, fighters will miss alot more
and the sig redution would apply to the carrier? would still be usless as anything can still hit you easly
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xeom
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Posted - 2006.04.15 05:53:00 -
[223]
No way dude sig on drones..
----------------------
O Snapz! |
Scalor Valentis
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 06:39:00 -
[224]
All cariers shuld have dual comba bonuses, period.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 08:25:00 -
[225]
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
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Scalor Valentis
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 09:32:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Pesadel0
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 10:36:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
Because they are pretty?
Give minmatar some love
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.15 11:40:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
Let's all pull numbers out of our arse that are so hypothetical thy make baby jeebus cry.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
|
Scalor Valentis
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 12:16:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 15/04/2006 12:16:57
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
Let's all pull numbers out of our arse that are so hypothetical thy make baby jeebus cry.
up the shut feck, troll.
Allerdy carrier manufactorers, like Oberon incorporated and all manufactorers from my alliances report over 60% rate on thanathos from all manufactored carriers.
Its only matter of time before all other train ghaylentte BS lvl 5 and go thanathos if this stupid situation continues.
Also, i took 80% as a hypotetical number cause i was referring "in future" tence. Hense sarcastcly discribing conditios under wich devs might consider reworkking carriers.
Now begone, troll.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 12:42:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Hashi Lebwohl
A builder's perspective.
We actually acquired another Thanatos print to meet demand and the Archon has been a good seller. The Chimera has performed ok but not brilliantly, but here we believe it has been the Phoenix, definitely the least popular dreadnaught, which has meant that training for Caldari capital ships has been set back.
The Nidhoggur does not have this excuse, as our Naglfar print is in continual production, and has performed the worst of any of the carriers. Since we commenced building carriers in February we have build only two Nidhoggur, one of which was for a character that only flies Minmatar ships (poor sap!).
Whatever the arguments advanced for this bonus it remains the fact that most carriers are purchased by individuals and very few, I feel, wish to spend 1 billion plus on being a safe spot healer.
I can safely predict that if TomB does a printout of Carriers in game in a year's time the wooden spoon will definitely be the Nidhoggur's by a large margin unless a more sellable bonus is given to the ship.
hey would ya look at that, even the biulders are complaing!
man im geting a feeling they should've called the Nidhoggur, Typhoon Mk2 now 3x more gimped!
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.15 13:47:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Hashi Lebwohl
A builder's perspective.
We actually acquired another Thanatos print to meet demand and the Archon has been a good seller. The Chimera has performed ok but not brilliantly, but here we believe it has been the Phoenix, definitely the least popular dreadnaught, which has meant that training for Caldari capital ships has been set back.
The Nidhoggur does not have this excuse, as our Naglfar print is in continual production, and has performed the worst of any of the carriers. Since we commenced building carriers in February we have build only two Nidhoggur, one of which was for a character that only flies Minmatar ships (poor sap!).
Whatever the arguments advanced for this bonus it remains the fact that most carriers are purchased by individuals and very few, I feel, wish to spend 1 billion plus on being a safe spot healer.
I can safely predict that if TomB does a printout of Carriers in game in a year's time the wooden spoon will definitely be the Nidhoggur's by a large margin unless a more sellable bonus is given to the ship.
hey would ya look at that, even the biulders are complaing!
man im geting a feeling they should've called the Nidhoggur, Typhoon Mk2 now 3x more gimped!
But hay, acordong some einsteins in this forums its ok!
I mean, its good to have variety, and minmatar bonuses are atualy best in game and all; honesty, its best bonus ever
It like, remote repairs; AWESUME 33% less cycletime for allredy prettymuch useless and underused module in game!
/sarcasm off
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Pesadel0
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:28:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
Let's all pull numbers out of our arse that are so hypothetical thy make baby jeebus cry.
kay do you really think that our opinions about the minie carrier are that far off?
Are you training for the minmatar carrier?And if soo for what advantage versus the other races ?
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Nifel
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Posted - 2006.04.15 14:43:00 -
[233]
It's fun to be smacked by my own alliance members :|. NOT...
If you guys had bothered to read up a bit you'd see I proposed a joint bonus for the minmatar carrier where it got a bonus of cap reduction needs required to run the remote reps/transfers that matched the reduction cycle bonus. I'd also like to see it boosted to 10% reduction per level for a nice 50% reduction in cycle time and cap needed to run the remote reps/transfers.
Next time... don't flame and spam so much but present a clear and consistent argument instead. Jeez...
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Scalor Valentis
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:49:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
Let's all pull numbers out of our arse that are so hypothetical thy make baby jeebus cry.
kay do you really think that our opinions about the minie carrier are that far off?
Are you training for the minmatar carrier?And if soo for what advantage versus the other races ?
Actualy, kaylana is claiming that she owns one(minmatar), and "like the bonuses" etc.... and that just increases my doubht abaut her statements.
If you ask me, i think shes just trolling.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Cmd Woodlouse
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:55:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
Let's all pull numbers out of our arse that are so hypothetical thy make baby jeebus cry.
actually its pure fact, and it makes ME cry when i see nearly all my minmatar capship mates training gheylente BS to 5 now...
--------------------------------
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.15 15:04:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 15/04/2006 15:05:51
Originally by: Nifel
It's fun to be smacked by my own alliance members :|. NOT...
If you guys had bothered to read up a bit you'd see I proposed a joint bonus for the minmatar carrier where it got a bonus of cap reduction needs required to run the remote reps/transfers that matched the reduction cycle bonus. I'd also like to see it boosted to 10% reduction per level for a nice 50% reduction in cycle time and cap needed to run the remote reps/transfers.
Next time... don't flame and spam so much but present a clear and consistent argument instead. Jeez...
You dont get it, do you. In how many Fleet ops that you participated, prolly even with me in some, did we ever ever ever used anykind of remote repairing IN COMBAT? (granted, we do remote repairing after batttle with s reppys)
And realy, with the envoirment; Lag lag lag lag lag, you shuld know beter to even begin to sugjest something like that.
Now, if you had sugjested something like this: carrier can remotly repair a guye from SS anywhere in system, just like you assing drones, thats other thing
So lets keep this simpple
No UI and lock interface support:
- No proper Health managment display for 50+ gangmenbers
- No instalock for gangmembers
Module is not balanced for what its intendet:
- Piddly 15km range will not do, you need atleast 100+km range to be any use in fleet.
- Remote repair module's needs to repair instantly and have cooldown period, not at the end of cycle.
Servers arent optimized for this:
- A severe healt displaying lag is still present if ship is taking fire from more than 10 ships, render useless anykind of remote repping.
You need have realtime display of healt if you plan being monk in EVE
 solution to serverside lag is that ships dont explode instantly after Healt = 0, instead you have ~10 seconds time to "save it" by remote repairing, while its in"abaut to explode" mode. This also means that armor repairers also shuld repair strukture.
 This ofcorse, can potetntioaly tunr EVE fleetbattles into WoW like "rez! Rez! heal! omfg HEALz0r plizz" game. But thats what devs want since they are so horny for remote repping
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 15:19:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Nifel
It's fun to be smacked by my own alliance members :|. NOT...
If you guys had bothered to read up a bit you'd see I proposed a joint bonus for the minmatar carrier where it got a bonus of cap reduction needs required to run the remote reps/transfers that matched the reduction cycle bonus. I'd also like to see it boosted to 10% reduction per level for a nice 50% reduction in cycle time and cap needed to run the remote reps/transfers.
Next time... don't flame and spam so much but present a clear and consistent argument instead. Jeez...
well we can't but feel ****ed off over this
this should have never happend in the first place
it really feels like the devs just slaped the carriers together to get RMR out, i remeber seeing that moive of the fanfest or what ever, with ovuer going "they will also have XL turrerts" oh look no turrets.
and also when you get morons going on about how "Good" the bonus is, tends to make me see red
we've also made many serjestions to fixing the bonus
bonus to drone tracking
reducion in cap use for arrays
reduction in cap use for cap arrays and cap reps
increced jump range
reduction in fuel use
adding wep hard points ( hey we can dream right?)
id take any of them on the current bonus
there also needs to be changes in the way arrays work and instalocking of gangmates before u may see "medics" durring a fleet fight
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.15 16:35:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
Let's all pull numbers out of our arse that are so hypothetical thy make baby jeebus cry.
kay do you really think that our opinions about the minie carrier are that far off?
Are you training for the minmatar carrier?And if soo for what advantage versus the other races ?
Actualy, kaylana is claiming that she owns one(minmatar), and "like the bonuses" etc.... and that just increases my doubht abaut her statements.
If you ask me, i think shes just trolling.
If that is the case then .
The devs will look into it but in a longggggggg time ,i mean just look at the phoon ..
Quote:
If you guys had bothered to read up a bit you'd see I proposed a joint bonus for the minmatar carrier where it got a bonus of cap reduction needs required to run the remote reps/transfers that matched the reduction cycle bonus. I'd also like to see it boosted to 10% reduction per level for a nice 50% reduction in cycle time and cap needed to run the remote reps/transfers.
What is the remote armor transfer range?The Xlarge ones i mean common..
Quote:
It's fun to be smacked by my own alliance members :|. NOT...
Well maybe because the trully minmatar pilots are tired of being the test race?Armor rep bonus to a carrier ?When all the races carriers got pretty bonus we were shafted with some kind of drunken experiment of the devs?ye rigth..
We should dance the kumbayala ,and drink quafe until we reach 90 years..
About them smaking ya ..I can smak ya if you want
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.15 21:28:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 15/04/2006 13:41:22
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
Now begone, troll.
Its easy to call someone a troll who is just trying to play devils advocate for people who might not agree with the way you are describing combat in EVE. What is said here is not the full picture yet you paint it like it is. So stfu and stop throwing names at people or you are the troll that can emote die m'kay?
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 21:37:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 15/04/2006 21:42:03
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah would be nice, but no cares anyway
maybe in 2 years we'll get it fixed
yea, when 80% of eve carrier pilots will be flying thanathos.
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
Let's all pull numbers out of our arse that are so hypothetical thy make baby jeebus cry.
kay do you really think that our opinions about the minie carrier are that far off?
Are you training for the minmatar carrier?And if soo for what advantage versus the other races ?
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it because I trained up dread skills first for a naglfar. Will never use it like you all seem to say it needs to be used. Am training my 2nd account for an Archon and will never use it like you all claim they need to be used.
I don't think your oppinions are that far off in many cases, never said otherwise. I just don't think throwing out absolutes about EVE combat as well as hyperbolic future case scenarios isn't very productive when relaying ideas to the DEVs. Who is to say how the future holds, since obviosly not everyone will fly a Thanatos in a years time. Combat could easily change radically overnight and it is well on its way to another shift as it is.
Sure, if you can get another damage bonus or logistics bonus, or even a Shield Bonus akin to the Cyclone on it then more power to you. But kicking the devs in the box while they are fixing the game, gearing up Kali the true RMR patch, fixing my typhoon, and getting the Chineese servers up to generate more real life ISK just because a ship has a broken or lackluster bonus, however you feel about it... its just stupid.
Getting flamed and called a troll for tossing about a counter argument is pretty funny none the less.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.15 23:30:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it because I trained up dread skills first for a naglfar. Will never use it like you all seem to say it needs to be used. Am training my 2nd account for an Archon and will never use it like you all claim they need to be used.
I don't think your oppinions are that far off in many cases, never said otherwise. I just don't think throwing out absolutes about EVE combat as well as hyperbolic future case scenarios isn't very productive when relaying ideas to the DEVs. Who is to say how the future holds, since obviosly not everyone will fly a Thanatos in a years time. Combat could easily change radically overnight and it is well on its way to another shift as it is.
Sure, if you can get another damage bonus or logistics bonus, or even a Shield Bonus akin to the Cyclone on it then more power to you. But kicking the devs in the box while they are fixing the game, gearing up Kali the true RMR patch, fixing my typhoon, and getting the Chineese servers up to generate more real life ISK just because a ship has a broken or lackluster bonus, however you feel about it... its just stupid.
Getting flamed and called a troll for tossing about a counter argument is pretty funny none the less.
so how about telling us how you would use it?
enlighten us who know not the correct path
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:09:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it
this is when i stopped reading.
Now please come back in 2 months, and you will have something solid to back your "visions" of new and wonderful EVE with Monks and palladins.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Nifel
|
Posted - 2006.04.16 00:54:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 15/04/2006 15:05:51
Originally by: Nifel
It's fun to be smacked by my own alliance members :|. NOT...
If you guys had bothered to read up a bit you'd see I proposed a joint bonus for the minmatar carrier where it got a bonus of cap reduction needs required to run the remote reps/transfers that matched the reduction cycle bonus. I'd also like to see it boosted to 10% reduction per level for a nice 50% reduction in cycle time and cap needed to run the remote reps/transfers.
Next time... don't flame and spam so much but present a clear and consistent argument instead. Jeez...
You dont get it, do you. In how many Fleet ops that you participated, prolly even with me in some, did we ever ever ever used anykind of remote repairing IN COMBAT? (granted, we do remote repairing after batttle with s reppys)
And realy, with the envoirment; Lag lag lag lag lag, you shuld know beter to even begin to sugjest something like that.
Now, if you had sugjested something like this: carrier can remotly repair a guye from SS anywhere in system, just like you assing drones, thats other thing
So lets keep this simpple
No UI and lock interface support:
- No proper Health managment display for 50+ gangmenbers
- No instalock for gangmembers
Module is not balanced for what its intendet:
- Piddly 15km range will not do, you need atleast 100+km range to be any use in fleet.
- Remote repair module's needs to repair instantly and have cooldown period, not at the end of cycle.
Servers arent optimized for this:
- A severe healt displaying lag is still present if ship is taking fire from more than 10 ships, render useless anykind of remote repping.
You need have realtime display of healt if you plan being monk in EVE
solution to serverside lag is that ships dont explode instantly after Healt = 0, instead you have ~10 seconds time to "save it" by remote repairing, while its in"abaut to explode" mode. This also means that armor repairers also shuld repair strukture.
This ofcorse, can potetntioaly tunr EVE fleetbattles into WoW like "rez! Rez! heal! omfg HEALz0r plizz" game. But thats what devs want since they are so horny for remote repping
You get 55km range with carrier 5 iirc. Given that carriers have enough hp not to get instaganked by a semilarge fleet they can remote rep each other to their hearts content. That's what I belive CCP envisioned for them given the fact that only the carriers can control all of the drones, they have quite a bit of hp and a locking time that's only really fit for other capital ships.
But yes... the minmatar carrier bonus sucks donkey ****. Another reason I'm not bothering with capital ships on minnie. Which is a shame because they actually have the coolest looking capital ships :(.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.04.16 01:45:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it because I trained up dread skills first for a naglfar. Will never use it like you all seem to say it needs to be used. Am training my 2nd account for an Archon and will never use it like you all claim they need to be used.
I don't think your oppinions are that far off in many cases, never said otherwise. I just don't think throwing out absolutes about EVE combat as well as hyperbolic future case scenarios isn't very productive when relaying ideas to the DEVs. Who is to say how the future holds, since obviosly not everyone will fly a Thanatos in a years time. Combat could easily change radically overnight and it is well on its way to another shift as it is.
Sure, if you can get another damage bonus or logistics bonus, or even a Shield Bonus akin to the Cyclone on it then more power to you. But kicking the devs in the box while they are fixing the game, gearing up Kali the true RMR patch, fixing my typhoon, and getting the Chineese servers up to generate more real life ISK just because a ship has a broken or lackluster bonus, however you feel about it... its just stupid.
Getting flamed and called a troll for tossing about a counter argument is pretty funny none the less.
so how about telling us how you would use it?
enlighten us who know not the correct path
There is no one correct path. Welcome to the world of EVE Online. Enjoy your stay now that you have the secret to the universe.
And If I told you I'd have to kill you.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:48:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it
this is when i stopped reading.
Now please come back in 2 months, and you will have something solid to back your "visions" of new and wonderful EVE with Monks and palladins.
25 days is less than 1 month and I am smart enough and been playing EVE enough to know how to use my ships before I step into them. It is a mobile POS despite the bugs and not much more. If you want to use it as a battleship that is your perogative but don't expect everyone to to swallow that pill.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:53:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it because I trained up dread skills first for a naglfar. Will never use it like you all seem to say it needs to be used. Am training my 2nd account for an Archon and will never use it like you all claim they need to be used.
I don't think your oppinions are that far off in many cases, never said otherwise. I just don't think throwing out absolutes about EVE combat as well as hyperbolic future case scenarios isn't very productive when relaying ideas to the DEVs. Who is to say how the future holds, since obviosly not everyone will fly a Thanatos in a years time. Combat could easily change radically overnight and it is well on its way to another shift as it is.
Sure, if you can get another damage bonus or logistics bonus, or even a Shield Bonus akin to the Cyclone on it then more power to you. But kicking the devs in the box while they are fixing the game, gearing up Kali the true RMR patch, fixing my typhoon, and getting the Chineese servers up to generate more real life ISK just because a ship has a broken or lackluster bonus, however you feel about it... its just stupid.
Getting flamed and called a troll for tossing about a counter argument is pretty funny none the less.
so how about telling us how you would use it?
enlighten us who know not the correct path
There is no one correct path. Welcome to the world of EVE Online. Enjoy your stay now that you have the secret to the universe.
And If I told you I'd have to kill you.
pffft
face the truth, the bonus sucks and needs to be changed
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:53:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
25 days is less than 1 month and I am smart enough and been playing EVE enough to know how to use my ships before I step into them. It is a mobile POS despite the bugs and not much more. If you want to use it as a battleship that is your perogative but don't expect everyone to to swallow that pill.
are you dim?
every frekking carrier can do it.
Why chooe the worst to do this?
What are you trying to say here? that that odd 2,5 sec with max skills gona do any good anywhere
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.17 07:59:00 -
[248]
my god, i can't beleave no one cares about
is this the replacement of the typhoon?
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.17 08:58:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it
this is when i stopped reading.
Now please come back in 2 months, and you will have something solid to back your "visions" of new and wonderful EVE with Monks and palladins.
25 days is less than 1 month and I am smart enough and been playing EVE enough to know how to use my ships before I step into them. It is a mobile POS despite the bugs and not much more. If you want to use it as a battleship that is your perogative but don't expect everyone to to swallow that pill.
Kay i still remember you from the typhoon threads doing the devil advocate saying that the phoon is uber and ****.
I dont mean to flame here but if you don¦t tell us concrete facts for why the minie carriers are better than the galente,caldari or amar,in anny situation i don't relly see the point in doing this crusade to say that the minie carriers kick ass.
Fact is no one is training the minie carrier unless they are masochist like you and me
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.17 09:15:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
my god, i can't beleave no one cares about
is this the replacement of the typhoon?
The new "fixed" phoon will be nothing more than a toy for Veterans.
It will have dual bonuses, forsing to train 2 if not 3 (drones) weponsystems to be par with geddon and domi. who cna baisikly cope with 1 (domi may be 2 if you insist on hybrids istead vanilla nos)
As i see it, typ0hoon will be either toy for a 3+ year old pilots or another noss mobile with 4 heavy nosses and 4 missile launchers.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.17 09:27:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
my god, i can't beleave no one cares about
is this the replacement of the typhoon?
The new "fixed" phoon will be nothing more than a toy for Veterans.
It will have dual bonuses, forsing to train 2 if not 3 (drones) weponsystems to be par with geddon and domi. who cna baisikly cope with 1 (domi may be 2 if you insist on hybrids istead vanilla nos)
As i see it, typ0hoon will be either toy for a 3+ year old pilots or another noss mobile with 4 heavy nosses and 4 missile launchers.
its sad but true
at lest after all that training it'll be something to fear
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.17 10:39:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
my god, i can't beleave no one cares about
is this the replacement of the typhoon?
The new "fixed" phoon will be nothing more than a toy for Veterans.
It will have dual bonuses, forsing to train 2 if not 3 (drones) weponsystems to be par with geddon and domi. who cna baisikly cope with 1 (domi may be 2 if you insist on hybrids istead vanilla nos)
As i see it, typ0hoon will be either toy for a 3+ year old pilots or another noss mobile with 4 heavy nosses and 4 missile launchers.
its sad but true
at lest after all that training it'll be something to fear
No i'am getting about all my ships.
/me hops in the claw and goes to syndicate..
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:28:00 -
[253]
anything fromt he devs would be good
like "we know"
or we're looking into it
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.04.17 13:49:00 -
[254]
I'm not saying this bonus is good but thinking about it in this way might be more useful:
2x carriers take on a small fleet of bs. One carrier is called primary. The other 'useless' one immediately begins to remote repair him.
I know all carriers could do this but the minmatar one would do it better. On the other hand, this bonus still sucks donkey balls and should be changed.
Moving onto the phoon, i've managed to fit dual reps, injector, afterburner, 4 x 425mms and 4 cruise launchers on. Just gonna wait for the patch to calculate dps but i reckcon it will still be rubbish. Plus the phoon needs roughly 1.5k more pg to fit all that as t2.
CCP please either stop gimping minmatar or give us something to work with.
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.17 14:05:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
anything fromt he devs would be good
like "we know"
or we're looking into it
or even "carriers are fine"
so we wont hold our breaths and train galentte like rest of EVE
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Simlife
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Posted - 2006.04.17 14:21:00 -
[256]
I'm sure by now the devs are well aware of the situation concerning the carriers. I knew when I bought a carrier that it had bugs but I also know that at some point they will be fixed at least to a working status, anything else is a bonus to me.
I don't care if they give no responce because the problems are rather noticable enough already. After all it is quite cool watching people undock from a station to take a peek.
When it is fixed up after a patch I'm sure our alliance will make good use of it, untill then... ahh wait we already are. :)
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:09:00 -
[257]
An official "they are meant to be like this " is good to me i only save time.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.17 21:51:00 -
[258]
still no officle, word My this is poor
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.17 22:00:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
still no officle, word My this is poor
devs are taking "put our heads in the sand" method on this. if we dont recodnise it, there is no problem.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.17 22:05:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
still no officle, word My this is poor
devs are taking "put our heads in the sand" method on this. if we dont recodnise it, there is no problem.
There is no spoon ,comon tux give us a missile bonus here dammit
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Jurushy
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Posted - 2006.04.17 23:28:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Jurushy on 17/04/2006 23:35:23
Edited by: Jurushy on 17/04/2006 23:29:49
well i am a mine carrier pilot an the specel bonus sux really :/
my opinion is why dont give any carrier ther racial figter as bonus for 5% or 10%
(remember fighter are not really drones becouse Drones are unmanned and fighter have pilotes (look at the firebolg*****pit) which has famalies and childrends and so on )
normally carrier are use at a safe point not direckt in battle (first target carrier from 20-30 BS will brack every tank)
they delegate the fighter to gangmates and repair ships which could warp out of the fight
but my favorit bonus for the mine carrier would be
CAN USE STARGATS LIKE NON CAPITAL SHIPS
or
can fit one XL turret per level
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slip66
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Posted - 2006.04.18 03:13:00 -
[262]
what do you expect from a bunch of brainless slaves? A high tech ship? I think the primatives did ok considering how dumb they are.
Originally by: StOrM ViPeR
Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2006.04.18 07:18:00 -
[263]
Thanatos seems to be an all-around better Carrier than any of the others too. 50% to fighter damage output at lvl 5?! I'd gladly take that over 25% to resistances. I can fit 1 Invunerability field II for more effect than that.
Then take into account that compared to the Chimera, the Thanatos has 55% more powergrid, is 15% faster, has more 5000 more hit points, has 25% more drone bay, 11% faster lock times, less mass, more cargo bay, smaller signature radius and more capacitor.
I mean, cmon, the Pheonix is a pretty gimped dread (especially compared to the Moros), so I was kinda hoping for a better Carrier too.
And yes, despite my complaining about the Chimera in comparison to the Thanatos, the Minmatar did indeed get an even shorter end of the stick.
My suggestion: tone down the Thanatos slightly (or at least give the Archon and Chimera stats that keep them from just being all-around worse than it) and definately buff the Nidhoggur's bonus, that's kinda lousy. Its stats are at least somewhat decent, but that bonus is a huge blow to what would otherwise be a decent carrier.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 08:18:00 -
[264]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Thanatos seems to be an all-around better Carrier than any of the others too. 50% to fighter damage output at lvl 5?! I'd gladly take that over 25% to resistances. I can fit 1 Invunerability field II for more effect than that.
Then take into account that compared to the Chimera, the Thanatos has 55% more powergrid, is 15% faster, has more 5000 more hit points, has 25% more drone bay, 11% faster lock times, less mass, more cargo bay, smaller signature radius and more capacitor.
I mean, cmon, the Pheonix is a pretty gimped dread (especially compared to the Moros), so I was kinda hoping for a better Carrier too.
And yes, despite my complaining about the Chimera in comparison to the Thanatos, the Minmatar did indeed get an even shorter end of the stick.
My suggestion: tone down the Thanatos slightly (or at least give the Archon and Chimera stats that keep them from just being all-around worse than it) and definately buff the Nidhoggur's bonus, that's kinda lousy. Its stats are at least somewhat decent, but that bonus is a huge blow to what would otherwise be a decent carrier.
all carriers have the same cap recharge rate (base)
and tbh sig rad and speed means **** all really, your so big the even minmatar guns can hit you , even with 40 more sig
but your still way betta off then minmatar
common tux if a post about cover ops gets a reply from you wtf do we have to do to get one here?
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 08:20:00 -
[265]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
I'm not saying this bonus is good but thinking about it in this way might be more useful:
2x carriers take on a small fleet of bs. One carrier is called primary. The other 'useless' one immediately begins to remote repair him.
I know all carriers could do this but the minmatar one would do it better. On the other hand, this bonus still sucks donkey balls and should be changed.
Moving onto the phoon, i've managed to fit dual reps, injector, afterburner, 4 x 425mms and 4 cruise launchers on. Just gonna wait for the patch to calculate dps but i reckcon it will still be rubbish. Plus the phoon needs roughly 1.5k more pg to fit all that as t2.
CCP please either stop gimping minmatar or give us something to work with.
sgb
true maybe in a small fleet it could work, but think what if you have 2 amarr or calldarie carrier? -25% to damg means a ****load more then reping 2 seconds faster
and yes the phoon needs more grid
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2006.04.18 08:59:00 -
[266]
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 09:05:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
you can't be serious
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Xthril Ranger
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Posted - 2006.04.18 09:32:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
I bet it got something to do with that gallente dreadnought pilots is those with the least amount of skill training to do before jumping into a carrier. They have all the skills required to fly capital ships and use tech 2 drones. They just needed some leadership skills and was good to go. I still think most carrier pilots will choose gallente though.
To me it look like the minmatar carrier is made to not be primary and caldari/amarr is made to be tankable (and the thanatos to assign drones from afar ).
If the nidhoggur is not primary 33% more repaired is good. I am not the most experienced player here , but to me it looks like it might work in small scale fights. Engage the enemy at your own terms (isnt that the minmatar way?) and keep everyone in your gang alive.
The caldari and amarr is more for when you can't dictate when and how the fight is done and you need to struggle to keep these centerpieces alive.
Right now I tend to think that most carrier pilots use their ship from safespot , making thanatos the natural choice.
you'll never jump alone |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 09:46:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
I bet it got something to do with that gallente dreadnought pilots is those with the least amount of skill training to do before jumping into a carrier. They have all the skills required to fly capital ships and use tech 2 drones. They just needed some leadership skills and was good to go. I still think most carrier pilots will choose gallente though.
To me it look like the minmatar carrier is made to not be primary and caldari/amarr is made to be tankable (and the thanatos to assign drones from afar ).
If the nidhoggur is not primary 33% more repaired is good. I am not the most experienced player here , but to me it looks like it might work in small scale fights. Engage the enemy at your own terms (isnt that the minmatar way?) and keep everyone in your gang alive.
The caldari and amarr is more for when you can't dictate when and how the fight is done and you need to struggle to keep these centerpieces alive.
Right now I tend to think that most carrier pilots use their ship from safespot , making thanatos the natural choice.
small scale fights and carriers do not mix
moving something around with a jump drive needs huge amout of logisitcs to work
33% faster is a load of bull****, its 2 secounds, your take more damg then the amarr and caldarie carriers and the gehylentie does more damg then you
ffs im just asking for a reson to use the minnie carrier other then the others, atm its pure ****
and "To me it look like the minmatar carrier is made to not be primary " wtf are you talking about!?
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.18 10:03:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.18 10:40:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
please, present something to back the frak up your statements.
If you feel its best bonus, while we have done some numbers and flyed the thing in action, dont make your statment anything else but flaimbait.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.18 10:45:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
I bet it got something to do with that gallente dreadnought pilots is those with the least amount of skill training to do before jumping into a carrier. They have all the skills required to fly capital ships and use tech 2 drones. They just needed some leadership skills and was good to go. I still think most carrier pilots will choose gallente though.
To me it look like the minmatar carrier is made to not be primary and caldari/amarr is made to be tankable (and the thanatos to assign drones from afar ).
If the nidhoggur is not primary 33% more repaired is good. I am not the most experienced player here , but to me it looks like it might work in small scale fights. Engage the enemy at your own terms (isnt that the minmatar way?) and keep everyone in your gang alive.
The caldari and amarr is more for when you can't dictate when and how the fight is done and you need to struggle to keep these centerpieces alive.
Right now I tend to think that most carrier pilots use their ship from safespot , making thanatos the natural choice.
Small scale fights (5 or less BS + some support) = Thanathos can own em solo
Medium scale fights (10+ Bs + equal amount of support) = Thanathos whuld be beter than niddhoggur. Dropping enemy BS 50% faster removes need for repairing, and thanathos can still remote repair.
LArge scale battles (sheadload of stuff) = you cant even say "repair me" in TS, no one cares. LAg LAg LAg
Honestly, only plase where remote repairing workked is in strikly pre determined situation; like caldari championship
Not normal everyday PVP.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Vathar
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Posted - 2006.04.18 10:55:00 -
[273]
It's been posted before, but the repair time is NOT the deciding factor when it comes to repairing non capital ship ... locking time is much longer, which means that you don't gain much ...
____________
Space Shaman
Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 12:03:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Vathar
It's been posted before, but the repair time is NOT the deciding factor when it comes to repairing non capital ship ... locking time is much longer, which means that you don't gain much ...
well yes and no
its the mix of locking time AND the arrays only working after the cycle
im not asking for a uber bonus that makes the minmatar carrier the 1win button
i just want to have a reson why i would want to fly it over they other carriers besides the fact its teh sex
10% reduction to cap use per lvl for armour and shield arrays combined with the changing of how arrays work, making them start at the begining of there cycle and having instalock for gangmates
or making it 5%-10% to fighter tracking per lvl
if one of them all happend, THEN you would have a carrier, not that current craptastic sh!tbox we have now
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 12:44:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Jurushy
well i am a mine carrier pilot an the specel bonus sux really :/
my opinion is why dont give any carrier ther racial figter as bonus for 5% or 10%
(remember fighter are not really drones becouse Drones are unmanned and fighter have pilotes (look at the firebolg*****pit) which has famalies and childrends and so on )
normally carrier are use at a safe point not direckt in battle (first target carrier from 20-30 BS will brack every tank)
they delegate the fighter to gangmates and repair ships which could warp out of the fight
but my favorit bonus for the mine carrier would be
CAN USE STARGATS LIKE NON CAPITAL SHIPS
or
can fit one XL turret per level
I would love to sue stargates and save all that fuel
After all the Charon has a mas off 1200000000 kg where as the Nidhoggur Has a mass off 922500000 kg which is a lot smaller.
So I see no reason to not let them use gates, I know previousley, devs have stated that they would only be aloud in to 05+ if the ability to give away controle of fighters was removed in high sec as there was no way for concord to responed to suside kestrals killing with fleets of remote figters.
The carriers are smaller by far than frighters so saying they are to big is just nonsense really.
----------------------------------------------
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.18 15:53:00 -
[276]
HUm use stargates would pretty cool ,it would make the minie carrier a fast ,flexible carrier .
Before someone says that they would become too overepowered,don¦t ,cause the mine carrier as a crappy bonus and half of the DPS :)
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.18 15:57:00 -
[277]
whuld fit in the mobility and gurellia warefare doctrine...
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.18 17:27:00 -
[278]
Minies rise up and try to win the war for the carriers bonus.
This thread shall not die .
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.18 17:40:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
please, present something to back the frak up your statements.
If you feel its best bonus, while we have done some numbers and flyed the thing in action, dont make your statment anything else but flaimbait.
What makes anything you say less frak then ours? Nothing... so quit refuting counter arguments and oppinions with your own absoultes and outlook of EVE.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.04.18 18:11:00 -
[280]
I have to admit that as a Nidhoggur pilot (yes i own it and i have flown it), that bonus means nothing to me.
With a lock time that is slower than just about anything in eve (i can fit three sensor boosters and a pilot in a tech 1 cruiser with no signature analysis skill can lock faster than me), the only place i get enough time to lock any major ship to remote rep it is at a POS or safe spot. Being on the actual battlefield is not the best idea as the thing does not tank all the well.
These are expensive ships and they are new ships. Just like any other new expensive ship, the instant the enemy fleet sees it in space, it will be called primary. Dread pilots would understand that. I can think of only one place to use a carrier that does not involve being at a safe spot or at a friendly POS. The bonus that the minmatar carrier provides could be more useful there provided that the carrier pilot can keep the cap recharge up to make it useful.
As for the suggestions, I think that all carriers should get two 5% combat bonuses. One being +5% to fighter damage, and the other 5% being something that helps along racial lines.
In terms of that the Gallante, Amarr, and Caldari would be set (+5% damage on the gallante one, +5% to armor resists on amarr, and +5% shield resists on Caldari). The issue would be what to give the minmatar carriers as the second 5% bonus. Suggestions of +5% to fighter tracking per lvl or maybe make them unique with a -5% fighter signature resolution per lvl. Obviously whatever the bonus was it can't be too powerful but it should be powerful enough to make the bonus useful.
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2006.04.18 23:36:00 -
[281]
yet another thread that makes me wish I hadn't strayed into minnie ships....
Ison's notches |
Aleis
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Posted - 2006.04.19 01:58:00 -
[282]
Edited by: Aleis on 19/04/2006 02:01:30
In an enlightened stand point and rational responce.
I agree that the bonus needs to be changed but for a different resone than just "Stop shafting Matari"
Although i don't fly Carriers I do Fly logistics, Both Logistic ships and logistic style set-up on Battleships and below, and all in Minmatr ships.
And there is only one thing that ever makes a difference in this role CAPACITOR In all the ships Battleship, Even in my Logistic ship for me to make use off all it's high slots for Repping I have to Dedicate Every Mid and low slot to further cap modules. and still only using up about half of the high slots for repping.
Cycle time has never been an issue with these setups.
Even if the Matari ship has the cap to sustain the transfers, Remember the other Carriers can also use remote Repairers. So if you talk about two Carriers doing a circle heal so can the others. So ask you self is that 2.5 seconds enough of a difference?
(2.5 seconds at Carrier lvl 5, keep in mind this is a Rank 14 skill. So more realisticly it will be only a 1.5 - 2 second bonus, in actualy practice.)
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.19 06:25:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
please, present something to back the frak up your statements.
If you feel its best bonus, while we have done some numbers and flyed the thing in action, dont make your statment anything else but flaimbait.
What makes anything you say less frak then ours? Nothing... so quit refuting counter arguments and oppinions with your own absoultes and outlook of EVE.
Because there is abaut every minmatar pilot par some trolls agree with me in here?
There is no smoke without fire, right?
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.19 06:56:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
please, present something to back the frak up your statements.
If you feel its best bonus, while we have done some numbers and flyed the thing in action, dont make your statment anything else but flaimbait.
What makes anything you say less frak then ours? Nothing... so quit refuting counter arguments and oppinions with your own absoultes and outlook of EVE.
eh? we tell people the real numbers (please note, % doesn't mean jack crap with out also telling the real numbers as well)
you just flamebait, typhoon threads anyone?
offer constructive counter arrguments to our surjests or STFU TROLL
"so quit refuting counter arguments and oppinions with your own absoultes and outlook of EVE"
Hi pot, im kettle, nice to meet you
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.19 20:59:00 -
[285]
What is this, somone moan abaut CPU on covert ops, and Tuxford is all over it.
we got 10+ pages of minmatar stuff and its kept ignored. atleast you culd say hi.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Ecnav
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Posted - 2006.04.19 21:16:00 -
[286]
RABBLE
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I don't have a sig |
Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.19 21:46:00 -
[287]
/me is Tux in disguise :
Hello we decided that the minie carrier was an experience so we will give it a sig radius on the figthers have fun .
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.20 06:36:00 -
[288]
WERE IS THE LOVE CCP!
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.04.20 06:42:00 -
[289]
I don't fly the ship, but I do think they need a better bonus, and I would like a reply from CCP (as well as the poor sobs that fly it)
signature removed - please email us if you want to know why - Oldmailman([email protected])
Oldmailman? I want one of the known mods to edit my sig, not some nobody! |
Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:43:00 -
[290]
I feel so leaft out .
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Kedor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:51:00 -
[291]
Tuxford mention this thread in here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326150&page=1#12
Just hang tight, he will look into this somewhere down the road.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:52:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Kedor
Tuxford mention this thread in here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326150&page=1#12
Just hang tight, he will look into this somewhere down the road.
Thanks for the link, I guess i can be sort of happy now.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:59:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
please, present something to back the frak up your statements.
If you feel its best bonus, while we have done some numbers and flyed the thing in action, dont make your statment anything else but flaimbait.
What makes anything you say less frak then ours? Nothing... so quit refuting counter arguments and oppinions with your own absoultes and outlook of EVE.
Because there is abaut every minmatar pilot par some trolls agree with me in here?
There is no smoke without fire, right?
Been a Minmatar Pilot happily since 2003. So don't kid yourself to think someone who has fought for our ships more than you could ever hope is just trolling for the sake of trolling. I am telling you that other people may play, may eventually play, and combat may change from how YOU play and the people that agree with you play. Your circle of blobs or wolfpacks doesn't == EVE Combat.
That said, I have made it very clear I don't disagree with a bonus being changed. Just how you cry babies go about doing it.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Falke Chasseur
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Posted - 2006.04.21 09:28:00 -
[294]
Everyone needs to play nice. Leave the judgement of who is trolling and who is not to CRC, and keep it courteous. I wouldn't temp Tux to use that new nerf-bat of his in a way you might regret ;)
-Falke
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tHe bOmB
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Posted - 2006.06.06 22:03:00 -
[295]
So how long has it been since carriers have been out? And how many people have trained for them? I know of quite a few that fly them alreadyą and its shame that very few ppl will ever consider the minmatar one because of the obvious bonus issue, and that is a shame the devĘs should have been on this right awayą I guess it didnĘt hurt for them to give something that is over powered like the gal fighter bonusą but for some reason giving a total crap bonus wasnĘt eitherą so either it wasnĘt thought out which by now I think it should have beeną and changing drastically either nerfing or unnerfing the minmatar one will sure sture up even more whiningą
I just donĘt see why it hasnĘt been fixed up so that people would say well its been looked into, and at least they have changed it.. and even if its not the best its better then it wasą but as of now nothing has been done yet
Seriously a number of other bonusesą either recharge rate reduction in shields or capą or even reduced % in cap usage would have been a nice optioną a % hp bonus?
And im sure many others have thought out many other optionsą here are a lot of ideas im sure in this and other threads yet nothing really has been talked about or proposed/presented as a major alternative before the players
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.08.18 00:07:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
Originally by: Kedor
Tuxford mention this thread in here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326150&page=1#12
Just hang tight, he will look into this somewhere down the road.
Thanks for the link, I guess i can be sort of happy now.
Can we get an update please dear tux?
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Madboy
Minmatar
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.18 03:34:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
Originally by: Kedor
Tuxford mention this thread in here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326150&page=1#12
Just hang tight, he will look into this somewhere down the road.
Thanks for the link, I guess i can be sort of happy now.
Can we get an update please dear tux?
You still haven't trained for a Gal carrier? :P
lol, yeah a update would be nice..
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.08.18 08:24:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Madboy
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
Originally by: Kedor
Tuxford mention this thread in here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326150&page=1#12
Just hang tight, he will look into this somewhere down the road.
Thanks for the link, I guess i can be sort of happy now.
Can we get an update please dear tux?
You still haven't trained for a Gal carrier? :P
lol, yeah a update would be nice..
hehe ;) call me a madman but i'am training for a minie carrier :)
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Wizie
Minmatar
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.04 05:50:00 -
[299]
any changes?
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Sig removed by some noob |
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