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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Ortho Loess
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
29
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Posted - 2014.04.16 23:23:00 -
[271] - Quote
I don't really understand what CCP legal are trying to do here.
We (VOLT) have heard no more than anyone else reading this thread since the last post by Falcon. It's been a month and 6 days, as of this writing.
I was informed by legal counsel that in a dispute such as this over a claim to IP, if we give arguments that we own the IP and never get a response countering those arguments, that counts as CCP accepting our arguments and relinquishing their claim.
A big part of me wants to just stay quiet and let everything disappear, but I am posting this to make clear that we consider the IP ownership of the name "the Volition Cult" and our logo to not be held by CCP and that further silence from CCP will confirm this. CCP are good at not deleting forum posts, but I will of course take screen shots after posting this, as well as an archive copy of the page.
I do not expect this ever to result in litigation. We do not want to stop CCP or others from using our name or logo. We have expressly granted CCP rights to use our logo as they see fit, as well as our name. We have released the logo under creative commons, so that anyone can use it, and even we can't decide later to limit its use. (the CC release contained a special proviso that the version CCP use is under dispute, so could not be included, as CC may not be compatible with their internal policies. We are happy to discuss this in a sensible manner)
VOLT has never tried to monetise our logo or other IP, the charges on spreadshirt etc. have, so far, always been set at the minimum allowed by the service, meaning that we get nothing, all money goes to the service providing the product.
I would still like to have a response from CCP confirming that they accept this. I can think of no sane reason why anyone would have a problem with it. On the other hand, if they do not, our legal position is still assured, simply by the fact of their silence.
On a more legalistic note, having waited over 4 and a half months for a resolution, I require a response within 10 working days or the matter will be considered to be closed and for CCP to have agreed to all arguments made on this forum or in linked posts on the VOLT websites.
One further note: Another boilerplate response stating that the legal team are still thinking, will not be considered to count as a counter argument to any argument made here, so will not be considered to have met the time requirement.
Kind regards,
-Ortho Loess - On behalt of The Volition Cult Alliance and the owners of the disputed IP (CCP have my real name :) ) |
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CCP Falcon
6568
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Posted - 2014.04.25 09:54:00 -
[272] - Quote
Ortho Loess wrote:I don't really understand what CCP legal are trying to do here.
I can't speak for CCP legal of course, as they'll have to communicate with you directly.
I've released news today that's put alliance logo submission on hold until we get the issues resolved however.
I'm sorry I can't give more information right now, but there's literally no further info I can give you guys, as the issue out of my hands.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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It Maybeatrap
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.25 11:23:00 -
[273] - Quote
So I've read the topic and still don't understand how this issue is different from uploading to social network?
Is there a reason for CCP being unable to use the same solution facebook has been using for the past years regarding user content, without forced takeover of ownership?
ELI5 please |
Lair Osen
84
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Posted - 2014.04.25 11:51:00 -
[274] - Quote
Well i'd say it's probably because CCP have to include it in their game client which is downloaded into everyones computer and behind a paywall and they use it as part of their game. Facebook stays on the internet (on the user end) and is free to access. |
Aimy Maulerant
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
28
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Posted - 2014.04.25 11:53:00 -
[275] - Quote
i really dont see what the issue is, as long as something isnt advertised using the eve logo then what does it really have to do with ccp |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9439
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Posted - 2014.04.25 12:56:00 -
[276] - Quote
Exploring options. lol. You've been told exactly what it is we require from you. We're not being unreasonable. Your lawyers are. The fact that you think this is still going to be resolved with some internal lawyering is ridiculous. You need to open a dialogue with players, particularly those players who have knowledge of international copyright law. They've posted here in this thread. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7046
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Posted - 2014.04.25 13:20:00 -
[277] - Quote
remind your lawyers that plagiarism in the law is not only allowed, it is encouraged and usually the right answer: you should not be paying your lawyers by the hour to hem and haw over what legal terms you should be using when the correct answer is to just plagiarize one of the bazillion user agreements that do this properly Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
mkint
1153
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Posted - 2014.04.25 13:58:00 -
[278] - Quote
Theft by corporate policy. All hail the mighty $. All hail the 'hoping they forget about it' PR policy. Since nobody will sell them IP after the WoD failure, of course they are going to steal everything they can from now on. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3019
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Posted - 2014.04.25 14:09:00 -
[279] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Ortho Loess wrote:I don't really understand what CCP legal are trying to do here. I can't speak for CCP legal of course, as they'll have to communicate with you directly. I've released news today that's put alliance logo submission on hold until we get the issues resolved however. I'm sorry I can't give more information right now, but there's literally no further info I can give you guys, as the issue out of my hands.
"Yo Playerzzz,
If you submit a logo, you are granting CCP a worldwide, irrevocable license to use it in any format both present and future conceived. But we totes don't actually own the logo, that would be silly and unnecessary.
Lorra love,
CCP legal"
Please give me a big cheque for sorting this out for you. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3019
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Posted - 2014.04.25 14:13:00 -
[280] - Quote
Or if you need to say the same thing in 5000 words and 180 paragraphs and subsections, do what Weaselior said. It's why 99% of all EULAs use the exact same wording. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
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Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1883
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Posted - 2014.04.25 16:12:00 -
[281] - Quote
So, we're never going to see Alliance Logos again?
/surprised I hope everyone voted in the CSM elections! Thank you to those who actually supported my campaign! Even if I don't get elected in, I hope that the CSM that do, and Devs actually use my ideas somewhere! |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1519
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Posted - 2014.04.25 18:45:00 -
[282] - Quote
Then how many years will we wait |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9453
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Posted - 2014.04.26 06:34:00 -
[283] - Quote
Why are we still talking about this? I mean, really. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Zinzanella
CRY.NET Nihilists Social Club
0
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Posted - 2014.04.27 11:24:00 -
[284] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Why are we still talking about this? I mean, really.
thats because some of us are still waiting for the new batch of logos to be seeded in TQ, but now the Logos that are all in process are now put in hold.
tbh I think the proper way to do this is to clear the queue first (aka logos that were already submitted and already on 2nd or final stage) should be added to TQ first, as those submission were submitted under the original and old agreement.
then all the NEW or recently submitted logos after the ToS changes should be put on Hold, or just disable the submission process first.
but hey, instead CCP just cuts everyone off |
RDevz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
189
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Posted - 2014.04.27 11:47:00 -
[285] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Ortho Loess wrote:I don't really understand what CCP legal are trying to do here. I can't speak for CCP legal of course, as they'll have to communicate with you directly. I've released news today that's put alliance logo submission on hold until we get the issues resolved however. I'm sorry I can't give more information right now, but there's literally no further info I can give you guys, as the issue out of my hands. "Yo Playerzzz, If you submit a logo, you are granting CCP a worldwide, irrevocable license to use it in any format both present and future conceived. But we totes don't actually own the logo, that would be silly and unnecessary. Lorra love, CCP legal" Please give me a big cheque for sorting this out for you.
You need the words "non-exclusive" and "royalty-free" in there. Other than that, that works, and this was suggested over two months ago on page 2 of this thread. ~ |
JSSix
CRY.NET Nihilists Social Club
3
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Posted - 2014.05.06 07:15:00 -
[286] - Quote
I'd still like to know how CCP managed to decide to hold all logos that are currently being processed (already submitted).
I mean can they not just process this logos like they used to while they develop the new submission process. Only thing they have to do is close the submission process and halt any possible new logos being submitted while they clean up the queue and process those through the old system.
Besides the fact that once they implement their changes it will affect all logos, etc.
bit unfair when some ppl already waited for months prior to the whole Alliance Logo fiasco thing then suddenly they're being told that their logo are put on hold |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9745
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Posted - 2014.05.13 06:50:00 -
[287] - Quote
Three months later, this bullshit is still unresolved. Absolutely ridiculous. This misunderstanding (i.e. everything your lawyers told you) should have been cleared up in a matter of days. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2965
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Posted - 2014.05.20 08:58:00 -
[288] - Quote
Another week of silence, on top of the previous three months.
Either they are deliberately doing nothing in hopes of making us forget their idiotic policies - which simply aren't legal in a number of countries - or the lawyers are taking CCP for a ride. Imagine 3 months of lawyer bills over something so simple, and which has had a known solution for decades and which is widely employed by countless other similar companies. |
Ortho Loess
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
38
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Posted - 2014.05.20 10:46:00 -
[289] - Quote
Now the topic seems to not be sticky anymore.
Anyone going try and pretend CCP's plan isn't to hope everyone will forget this, so that they can just push the same crap later, but more quietly?
The EULA states that all legal disputes must happen in Iceland, under Icelandic law. Maybe the American lawyers, who appear to have no understanding at all of any non-US law are a bad idea...
On the bright side, since Falcon quoted from my last post, I have confirmation that it has been received. No response has been made to the points it contains, either on or outside the forum. Therefore I consider the legal question of the VOLT name and logo ownership to be completely resolved in our favour.
We do remain happy to grant CCP any non-exclusive licence that may be required (subject to it not being a complete **** take this time)
-Ortho
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10002
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Posted - 2014.05.20 18:29:00 -
[290] - Quote
Hey CCP. We're still here, waiting on your answer. We're going to keep bugging you until you give us one. Of course whether we stop or not depends entirely on the nature of your answer. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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JSSix
CRY.NET Nihilists Social Club
6
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Posted - 2014.05.21 09:16:00 -
[291] - Quote
like i said... the least ccp can do is clear the queue (all pending logos that already went to the 2nd stage(artistis))
then try to get a solution whatever that may be |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10082
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Posted - 2014.05.24 21:42:00 -
[292] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hey CCP. We're still here, waiting on your answer. We're going to keep bugging you until you give us one. Of course whether we stop or not depends entirely on the nature of your answer.
"Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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David Laurentson
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
96
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Posted - 2014.05.26 22:07:00 -
[293] - Quote
Ortho Loess wrote:Now the topic seems to not be sticky anymore.
Anyone going try and pretend CCP's plan isn't to hope everyone will forget this, so that they can just push the same crap later, but more quietly?
The EULA states that all legal disputes must happen in Iceland, under Icelandic law. Maybe the American lawyers, who appear to have no understanding at all of any non-US law are a bad idea...
On the bright side, since Falcon quoted from my last post, I have confirmation that it has been received. No response has been made to the points it contains, either on or outside the forum. Therefore I consider the legal question of the VOLT name and logo ownership to be completely resolved in our favour.
We do remain happy to grant CCP any non-exclusive licence that may be required (subject to it not being a complete **** take this time)
-Ortho
Well, at least some good has come of this! |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2968
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Posted - 2014.05.29 12:24:00 -
[294] - Quote
Whats the bet that this thread eventually quietly gets locked without any updates or resolutions.
Extremely poor show, ccp |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
160
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Posted - 2014.05.30 04:07:00 -
[295] - Quote
I think it would be an excellent idea to re-sticky this thread because we still haven't gotten an answer, and I'm sure CCP doesn't want to be seen as a company who might try to sweep it under the rug and hope we just forget about it. |
Neliel Oderschvank
CRY.NET Nihilists Social Club
2
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Posted - 2014.05.31 05:15:00 -
[296] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:I think it would be an excellent idea to re-sticky this thread because we still haven't gotten an answer, and I'm sure CCP doesn't want to be seen as a company who might try to sweep it under the rug and hope we just forget about it.
i have the feeling some does.... |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
104
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Posted - 2014.06.02 06:37:00 -
[297] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:I can't speak for CCP legal of course, as they'll have to communicate with you directly. Is there any reason to believe they will at any point in time? Because right now, it looks more like you decided to take your toys (the logo submission program) and go home.
Why? Originally your reason for changing the rules were to make it possible for players to use alliance logos on merchandise. And now that your proposed changes meet legal concerns, instead of keeping the old rules in place, which I assume have at some point in time been cleared with CCP legal, you completely shutter alliance logo submissions? What kind of knee-jerk reaction is this?
I'd like to, again, point out the date of the original post in this thread: February 13. Three and a half months have passed since then, and more than a month since your last post. Maybe you should go to your legal department and ask them what you're even paying them for. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
RDevz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
189
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Posted - 2014.06.03 17:36:00 -
[298] - Quote
I love how the sheer number of sticky threads in this forum that noone has posted in in literally forever has pushed this thread, in which we're still awaiting answers to questions posed nearly four months ago, off the front page.
Well played, CCP, well played. ~ |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2981
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Posted - 2014.06.11 10:56:00 -
[299] - Quote
The lawyers fees must be building up if they're still working on this.
Not a great time to be incurring such costs, eh ccp?
Maybe you could, you know, just quickly use the standard agreements everyone else uses? |
Alexander Thorsen
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.06.16 12:53:00 -
[300] - Quote
Something that's not been brought up. I don't suppose it's occurred to CCP that an alliance or corp might not want their IP used in public when they have no creative control over how it's portrayed? Because, to use the CFC example, under US IP and copyright law, the CFC has the legal right to sue the absolute **** out of CCP if they feel their brand has been unfairly maligned or grossly mischaracterized.
Also, given previous statements by long time players of how CCP's modus operandi is to go silent and do it anyway in a quiet manner at a later date, think real hard about whether you want to do that, CCP. I'm not sure how civil IP/CC law and wire fraud (or a similar internet fraud law) correlate, if they do in the US, but maybe it's best not to dance with the devil. |
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