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BKM Industries Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 18	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:20:00 - [91] - Quote @ Lucas Kell who is evil? I think you are a bit lost. I never said RvB is evil. Shoot I still have a bunch of people I talk to in RvB. Come back when you have your facts straight. type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Danalee EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 522	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:20:00 - [92] - Quote Mangala Solaris wrote: Mangala Solaris : (26 January 2014 - 07:15 PM) Im repricing on our kbs so may fix it may not be honestly idgaf 26th January? I was on my way back from the Winter Summit in Iceland at that stage. Stuck on a rail replacement bus till gone 8pm. So there is someone on the RVB shoutbox using your name? Or are you saying you didn't post that ever? Oh and, suddenly the shoutbox is restricted, coincidence, I'm sure. Sorry to be so hard on you, its a consequence of you being in the pants on fire hypocrit camp, I tend to paint those with the same brush. idgaf D.
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2561	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:22:00 - [93] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: @ Lucas Kell who is evil? I think you are a bit lost. I never said RvB is evil. Shoot I still have a bunch of people I talk to in RvB. Come back when you have your facts straight. Well this thread does. As apparently RvB are just goons in disguise, and goons are evil, thus RvB must be evil. You really aren't reading any posts are you? Not even the OP. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
BKM Industries Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 18	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:23:00 - [94] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: @ Lucas Kell who is evil? I think you are a bit lost. I never said RvB is evil. Shoot I still have a bunch of people I talk to in RvB. Come back when you have your facts straight. Well this thread does. As apparently RvB are just goons in disguise, and goons are evil, thus RvB must be evil. You really aren't reading any posts are you? Not even the OP. So you mean everyone posting here must agree so then you agree also. I guess you are not reading what you are saying. type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2561	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:26:00 - [95] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: @ Lucas Kell who is evil? I think you are a bit lost. I never said RvB is evil. Shoot I still have a bunch of people I talk to in RvB. Come back when you have your facts straight. Well this thread does. As apparently RvB are just goons in disguise, and goons are evil, thus RvB must be evil. You really aren't reading any posts are you? Not even the OP. So you mean everyone posting here must agree so then you agree also. I guess you are not reading what you are saying. No, but Gevlon is your leader. So you are surely supposed to follow his lead, right? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Khanh'rhh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2715	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:28:00 - [96] - Quote Gevlon Goblin wrote: Leto Thule wrote: This thread sucks. Goblin, even if your correct, and RVB are some massive goon puppet entity... who cares? And furthermore, the idea of it being some type of "scam" unto its own membership is just silly. TMK they dont pay to join RVB, and most of their pilots just wanna shoot something and have fun. Im not seeing where the "scam" part is. Let me simplify why is it a scam: what RvB offers The truth This is my very last appeal to your sanity. I urge you, to put an alt into RvB, and spend a day, maybe two, doing things with them. No, don't make some **** excuse like "Lolfrigates, why would I do that!" or anything else, just do it. In particular, have a look at how frequent the purple fleets are, and join in on one. In your mind, people are being forced into these fleets and are having a horrible time. In reality, they're entirely optional, people like joining them, and when they do they have a very good time. I know you won't do this. I know you will make up an excuse, and lean back on your fantasy that it's a horrible experience to support your narrative, and imagine anyone telling you otherwise is a Goon spy. I know this. However, you will slowly come to realise your **** narrative is complete fantasy, whether by joining in or self-realisation that you can't because it would prove my point. I hope you one day look back at this, and realise that you were just leaping around shouting about nonsensical fantasies that you had and are pretty embarassed, but I know you. You will deny ever being wrong and just keep on trucking in your crazy truck. One last appeal. Actually try to experience what you claim you are showing in your bizarre excel charts. If you had even an ounce of common sense, you would know quantitative data is utterly meaningless to define a qualitative state. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930
Khanh'rhh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2715	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:29:00 - [97] - Quote tl;dr - the very notion of the entity you're trying to bring down doesn't even exist. You're tilting at windmills. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930
Leto Thule Sons of Retribution 444	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:30:00 - [98] - Quote Pete Butcher wrote: Leto Thule wrote: Another post You're making him win! Im just hoping the ISD will come along and lock these. They arent even entertaining anymore! Killboard https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
Pete Butcher Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass 88	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:33:00 - [99] - Quote Leto Thule wrote: Pete Butcher wrote: Leto Thule wrote: Another post You're making him win! Im just hoping the ISD will come along and lock these. They arent even entertaining anymore! Even if this happens, Gevlon will surely start a new one. He is mentally unable to even remotely accept the possibility that he could be wrong. Therefore you can expect next batches of numbers and insane theories.
BKM Industries Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 18	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:33:00 - [100] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: @ Lucas Kell who is evil? I think you are a bit lost. I never said RvB is evil. Shoot I still have a bunch of people I talk to in RvB. Come back when you have your facts straight. Well this thread does. As apparently RvB are just goons in disguise, and goons are evil, thus RvB must be evil. You really aren't reading any posts are you? Not even the OP. So you mean everyone posting here must agree so then you agree also. I guess you are not reading what you are saying. No, but Gevlon is your leader. So you are surely supposed to follow his lead, right? He is my leader? That is news to my whole alliance. Maybe you should get your facts right. You should do some reading and get caught up to speed. If everyone who paid for a war was our leader we would have tons of leaders. I even paid for wars guess I took over the alliance. Man I wish they would stop letting kids post on the forums who know nothing. type something here to make a cool sig!!!

Pete Butcher Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass 89	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:35:00 - [101] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: Man I wish they would stop letting kids post on the forums who know nothing. Where would Gevlon post then?
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2561	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:39:00 - [102] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: @ Lucas Kell who is evil? I think you are a bit lost. I never said RvB is evil. Shoot I still have a bunch of people I talk to in RvB. Come back when you have your facts straight. Well this thread does. As apparently RvB are just goons in disguise, and goons are evil, thus RvB must be evil. You really aren't reading any posts are you? Not even the OP. So you mean everyone posting here must agree so then you agree also. I guess you are not reading what you are saying. No, but Gevlon is your leader. So you are surely supposed to follow his lead, right? He is my leader? That is news to my whole alliance. Maybe you should get your facts right. You should do some reading and get caught up to speed. If everyone who paid for a war was our leader we would have tons of leaders. I even paid for wars guess I took over the alliance. Man I wish they would stop letting kids post on the forums who know nothing. Oh yeah, didn't you hear? Without Gevlon there, you guys are nothing. You couldn't afford your wars, so he enables your existence. You members all seem to be on board, even your corp CEO is backing what Gevlon is saying so it must be the truth. Since you are cooperating and he is supplying the isk that enables your kills, they are all his. You are his pets. Thank god he came along to save you guys. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Xaerael Endiel GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 110	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:40:00 - [103] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: He is my leader? That is news to my whole alliance. Maybe you should get your facts right. You should do some reading and get caught up to speed. If everyone who paid for a war was our leader we would have tons of leaders. I even paid for wars guess I took over the alliance. Man I wish they would stop letting kids post on the forums who know nothing. Your alliance accepted his employment terms. He's your employer. So yes, He's your boss. Your leader. Whether he allows other people to do the strategic calls doesn't change the fact. Congratulations for working for the mentally disadvantaged, maybe you see why we're all laughing at you now.
Professor Clio Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 349	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:43:00 - [104] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: @ Lucas Kell who is evil? I think you are a bit lost. I never said RvB is evil. Shoot I still have a bunch of people I talk to in RvB. Come back when you have your facts straight. Well this thread does. As apparently RvB are just goons in disguise, and goons are evil, thus RvB must be evil. You really aren't reading any posts are you? Not even the OP. So you mean everyone posting here must agree so then you agree also. I guess you are not reading what you are saying. No, but Gevlon is your leader. So you are surely supposed to follow his lead, right? He is my leader? That is news to my whole alliance. Maybe you should get your facts right. You should do some reading and get caught up to speed. If everyone who paid for a war was our leader we would have tons of leaders. I even paid for wars guess I took over the alliance. Man I wish they would stop letting kids post on the forums who know nothing. I personally dont mind marmite. I enjoy our wars and your forum posting (well not yours but toras and danalees) however it does seem like you're whoring yourselves out to a crazy person (even you must know that gevlon is a few cards short of a full deck) and thats a real shame to see you fall this low just for a free war with goons.
Louis Robichaud Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 138	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:50:00 - [105] - Quote Danalee wrote: [quote=Mangala Solaris] Louis Robichaud, Thanks for the rebuttal, it looks to be in order. My inquiry has been answered. Now unless new old data proves the trend, I think we can close this thought process. D. Out The really frustrating thing here is how Gevlon, who profess to use quantified facts to prove his points, completely ignores the logical conclusions of these facts. For example. Gevlon has stated that RvB is risk adverse (wut?), since the average member loses only 370 ish millions isk per year. I told him that his numbers were wrong... But what would it means if they were right? If they are right, the average RvB member loses 30 mil per month (aprox) and since lemmings / marmites did 17% of that damage this month, that means about five millions... Which is completely pathetic. So either Gevlon 's math is wildly off, or the damage inflicted to us in this war is laughable. You would think that this warrants an explanation, perhaps even an admission of error. But nope, nothing for Gevlon.
BKM Industries Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 18	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:51:00 - [106] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Oh yeah, didn't you hear? Without Gevlon there, you guys are nothing. You couldn't afford your wars, so he enables your existence. You members all seem to be on board, even your corp CEO is backing what Gevlon is saying so it must be the truth. Since you are cooperating and he is supplying the isk that enables your kills, they are all his. You are his pets. Thank god he came along to save you guys. Where is your proof of this? I do not see any I just see some random guy making stuff up like mad in an attempt to look smart. Go look some stuff up then attempt to talk with the adults. @ Xaerael Endiel learn to troll better then come back. @ Professor Clio you may enjoy the wars but tons of your members do not. No worries if you do not like my post. I do not like my post ether cause its too easy to pick on people on here. I feel like I just beat up a teen after posting most times. type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Pete Butcher Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass 90	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:52:00 - [107] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Oh yeah, didn't you hear? Without Gevlon there, you guys are nothing. You couldn't afford your wars, so he enables your existence. You members all seem to be on board, even your corp CEO is backing what Gevlon is saying so it must be the truth. Since you are cooperating and he is supplying the isk that enables your kills, they are all his. You are his pets. Thank god he came along to save you guys. Where is your proof of this? I do not see any I just see some random guy making stuff up like mad in an attempt to look smart. Go look some stuff up then attempt to talk with the adults. Gevlon wrote: We can argue about Marmites all day, though I prefer to let this run for a few months and get data. But Lemmings exists for one and only reason: because I pay Marmite for its existence. Lemmings were found on that threadnought where I found Marmite members. Lemmings would cease to exist if I'd stop paying. So yes, I can take ALL the credit. What about the pilots who do the shooting? Without Lemmings they'd shoot random targets. They probably have similar magnitude of kills, probably in lowsec. But these kills would be totally random. I am solely responsible for turning these players against CFC and focusing their damage on CFC.
Khanh'rhh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2716	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:59:00 - [108] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: So when we brought a 10 man BS death fleet to your guys home system and it took almost an hour for you guys to muster 40+ and the FC kept saying on coms he will not fight till you guys had 40+ with 20+ BS's and logi that teaches people how to not be afraid? How does a FC who is afraid to lose a fight cry's on coms for overwhelming numbers teach people to not be afraid? Oh hey, I missed this post skimming through. Could you estimate the DPS required to break the reps of your cloud of neutral logi? I'm thinking 40 BSes might take down one, perhaps get another in low armour, before you dock. If you play docking games with neut logi, expect this every time. Your bed, you made it. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE. 251	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:00:00 - [109] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Mr Goblin, you have been exposed as a Goon spy! You know, I've been trying to figure out what Mr. Goblin's actual game is for awhile. While he does seem like the sort of person that can't comprehend spending isk to have fun, and instead focuses on it as some sort of high score, this latest set of endeavors seem particularly ill-conceived and futile. Sabriz's explanation seems almost plausible. Mr. Goblin. If you really want to hurt the goons, don't focus on killing them in high sec. Focus on breaking up CFC through betrayal's of trust and the breakdown of non-aggression pacts. I believe you are intelligent enough to spin the external propaganda necessary to break bonds while running heists. Pretending that goonswarm will fall just because a few of its members can't go shopping, or it loses some POCO's that were only added to the game last November just makes you look stupid. Baseless accusations against RVB are even worse. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á
BKM Industries Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 18	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:01:00 - [110] - Quote Pete Butcher wrote: BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Oh yeah, didn't you hear? Without Gevlon there, you guys are nothing. You couldn't afford your wars, so he enables your existence. You members all seem to be on board, even your corp CEO is backing what Gevlon is saying so it must be the truth. Since you are cooperating and he is supplying the isk that enables your kills, they are all his. You are his pets. Thank god he came along to save you guys. Where is your proof of this? I do not see any I just see some random guy making stuff up like mad in an attempt to look smart. Go look some stuff up then attempt to talk with the adults. Gevlon wrote: We can argue about Marmites all day, though I prefer to let this run for a few months and get data. But Lemmings exists for one and only reason: because I pay Marmite for its existence. Lemmings were found on that threadnought where I found Marmite members. Lemmings would cease to exist if I'd stop paying. So yes, I can take ALL the credit. What about the pilots who do the shooting? Without Lemmings they'd shoot random targets. They probably have similar magnitude of kills, probably in lowsec. But these kills would be totally random. I am solely responsible for turning these players against CFC and focusing their damage on CFC. "Lemmings" "Lemmings" "We can argue about Marmites all day, though I prefer to let this run for a few months and get data." "Lemmings" "Lemmings" See I am Marmite. We have been around long before Lemmings. But nice try at stretching the facts. type something here to make a cool sig!!!

BKM Industries Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 18	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:03:00 - [111] - Quote Khanh'rhh wrote: BKM Industries wrote: So when we brought a 10 man BS death fleet to your guys home system and it took almost an hour for you guys to muster 40+ and the FC kept saying on coms he will not fight till you guys had 40+ with 20+ BS's and logi that teaches people how to not be afraid? How does a FC who is afraid to lose a fight cry's on coms for overwhelming numbers teach people to not be afraid? Oh hey, I missed this post skimming through. Could you estimate the DPS required to break the reps of your cloud of neutral logi? I'm thinking 40 BSes might take down one, perhaps get another in low armour, before you dock. If you play docking games with neut logi, expect this every time. Your bed, you made it. We had 0 neutral logi and you may want to learn more about the game. You can not dock while sitting at a gate. So to answer the DPS question 0 DPS was needed to counter the 0 neutral logi. Might want to re-think your logic. type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Pete Butcher Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass 91	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:05:00 - [112] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: "Lemmings" "Lemmings" "We can argue about Marmites all day, though I prefer to let this run for a few months and get data." "Lemmings" "Lemmings" See I am Marmite. We have been around long before Lemmings. But nice try at stretching the facts. Maybe to you there's a difference somewhere, but not to the rest of us. Especially when: Gevlon wrote: But Lemmings exists for one and only reason: because I pay Marmite for its existence. He's your god now. Deal with it.
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2562	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:07:00 - [113] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Oh yeah, didn't you hear? Without Gevlon there, you guys are nothing. You couldn't afford your wars, so he enables your existence. You members all seem to be on board, even your corp CEO is backing what Gevlon is saying so it must be the truth. Since you are cooperating and he is supplying the isk that enables your kills, they are all his. You are his pets. Thank god he came along to save you guys. Where is your proof of this? I do not see any I just see some random guy making stuff up like mad in an attempt to look smart. Go look some stuff up then attempt to talk with the adults. Read Gevlon's blog. He quite clearly stated that you guys were too poor to afford the wardecs, so he pays for them for you. Funnily enough, there's as much if not more evidence for what I am saying on Gevlon's blog as he has presented for these ridiculous RvB accusations. And adults? Coming from the guy who's "NOT READING YOUR POSTS LALALALALALA" Seriously guy. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
BKM Industries Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 18	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:09:00 - [114] - Quote Pete Butcher wrote: BKM Industries wrote: "Lemmings" "Lemmings" "We can argue about Marmites all day, though I prefer to let this run for a few months and get data." "Lemmings" "Lemmings" See I am Marmite. We have been around long before Lemmings. But nice try at stretching the facts. Maybe to you there's a difference somewhere, but not to the rest of us. Especially when: Gevlon wrote: But Lemmings exists for one and only reason: because I pay Marmite for its existence. He's your god now. Deal with it. Not sure if your comment is meant to make you look like an idiot or make you look funny. Either one works fine I guess. type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2562	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:14:00 - [115] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: "Lemmings" "Lemmings" "We can argue about Marmites all day, though I prefer to let this run for a few months and get data." "Lemmings" "Lemmings" See I am Marmite. We have been around long before Lemmings. But nice try at stretching the facts. This was in fact posted on the Marmite january breakdown however. Not the lemmings one: Oh and: Gevlon wrote: Marmite does NOT use to keep these alliances wardecced, because every single wardec costs 2.2B/month. Keeping all of them decced would cost 30B/month (RvB war is free if you shoot GSF POCOs). Marmite simply doesn't have this money. When they have some, they wardec some nullsec alliances. When they run out of ISK, they let the wars lapse. I can make these wars run forever. You are poverty stricken peasants. Gevlon is your benefactor. Without him you have to go back to scraping by on the few wardecs you can afford. There's like hundreds of these. Go for a peruse. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
BKM Industries Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective 18	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:15:00 - [116] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: BKM Industries wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Oh yeah, didn't you hear? Without Gevlon there, you guys are nothing. You couldn't afford your wars, so he enables your existence. You members all seem to be on board, even your corp CEO is backing what Gevlon is saying so it must be the truth. Since you are cooperating and he is supplying the isk that enables your kills, they are all his. You are his pets. Thank god he came along to save you guys. Where is your proof of this? I do not see any I just see some random guy making stuff up like mad in an attempt to look smart. Go look some stuff up then attempt to talk with the adults. Read Gevlon's blog. He quite clearly stated that you guys were too poor to afford the wardecs, so he pays for them for you. Funnily enough, there's as much if not more evidence for what I am saying on Gevlon's blog as he has presented for these ridiculous RvB accusations. And adults? Coming from the guy who's "NOT READING YOUR POSTS LALALALALALA" Seriously guy. Another child found the caps lock key joy. type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Khanh'rhh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2716	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:16:00 - [117] - Quote BKM Industries wrote: We had 0 neutral logi and you may want to learn more about the game. You can not dock while sitting at a gate. So to answer the DPS question 0 DPS was needed to counter the 0 neutral logi. Might want to re-think your logic. Ahhahahahah Aren't you precious. You have metric ****-tons of neutral logi, whether you're showing them on the field or not. Literally no-one is dumb enough to think you would undock without it. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930
Khanh'rhh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2716	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:18:00 - [118] - Quote I remember in Burn Jita 2 you guys had ~15 neut logi rep a single Proteus that got in trouble and some more were panic-logging in. You also used them on every engagement near a gate. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930
Kristopher Rocancourt Auto Erotic Decapitation 346	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:18:00 - [119] - Quote Gevlon Goblin wrote: Could you imagine an alliance recruiting thousands of people, just to use them for wars they didn't mean, for a master they don't even like? A pet alliance without SRP, without good killboard, without ratting space? That would be some serious scam. ! Marmite? < /winks at Tora> https://zkillboard.com/character/91143676/ https://killalliance.co.uk/tears/tears-holeysheet/
Khanh'rhh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2716	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:18:00 - [120] - Quote "0" Hehhhh "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930



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