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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Cylin Rath
13
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Posted - 2014.03.24 11:30:00 -
[301] - Quote
I like the idea! As for the delay I think it should be totally random within a set period.
Add more random variance to all the things:
- Mass limits on holes (Add a way to detect the total mass limit of a hole. Each wormhole class would have would have a range of sizes that a new static could be. Lets make 'hole control' interesting in a new way.)
- Ship allowances on holes (Ut oh, can't fit an Orca through this two bill hole, gotta use something else. Lets make 'hole control' interesting in a new way.)
- Random sleeper spawns near customs offices
- Make the percentage part of wormhole effects random within set ranges for each wormhole class.
- Make the size of sleeper spawns in anomalies more random
- More random wandering wormholes
- More random everything!
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Veskin Sentinel
Stay Frosty.
0
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Posted - 2014.03.24 11:30:00 -
[302] - Quote
Hey!
I'm not a wormhole resident (yet) but I find this very interesting and I think there should be some balance between both sides - aggressors and wormhole residents.
Maybe there should be some dynamic factors added to wormhole appearance on scan and overlay, depending on the wormhole type, the number of ships that pass through it, also the time during which the wormhole has been exposed to probe signals and whether there has been a cynosural field lighted near the wormhole.
So if a large group of ships suddenly pass through the wormhole, it should appear on scan and overlay sooner than if only one ship or a small group pass through. These dynamic factors should also include the ship signature radius, so when ships have larger signatures they should make the wormhole appear on scan sooner. In a lore concept this would mean that wormholes should be really sneaky when they appear, but when someone disrupts them by passing through them they would emit waves that can be easily detected.
This would bring some balance and make it fair for the wormhole residents when there is a large dangerous fleet coming to them.
Same with the cynos. When a cyno is lighted near a wormhole there should be a big delay but the wormhole would eventually appear on scan and overlay, but if a large group of ships suddenly jump in using the cyno, then this timer should be shortened significantly, depending on ship overall signature radius, or their mass, or their count - whatever applies better. This would meant that wormhole residents might be aware of the new wormhole before someone jump through.
Additionally if a wormhole has been scanned down multiple times - it should eventually appear in scan results and on overlay, maybe after a long while.
These dynamic factors should apply whether ships pass in large groups or smaller groups but continuously, meaning that if an aggressor group decide to split in smaller groups and pass through the wormhole one after the other to avoid imminent wormhole appearance on scan, they should not take that much advantage of that tactic and the wormhole would appear on scan after a large portion of their fleet has passed through, but it would still appear later than if they all pass through at the same time.
This would mean that if there is some really big danger to the wormhole residents, presented by some large fleet, they should be aware of it, but if there are smaller fleets, or just explorers/ small group of miners etc. there should be less indication of their arrival.
All these dynamic factors - one by one or combined - should bring some balance and make this fair game. I just hope things like this will be easy for the server to handle. :) |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores
Dominatus Atrum Mortis
16
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Posted - 2014.03.24 11:31:00 -
[303] - Quote
OK- my previous posts have been somewhat negative in tone (mainly due to the fact I think the idea is ill-considered) so here's my somewhat-more-considered opinion of what the "problem" is and how to fix it:
The problem at hand seems to be that folks want more fights in WH space and with the current mechanics it's almost impossible to hurt someone who runs for the pos shields (beyond a bit of inconvenience). Why is this? Because to take down fixed assets like POSs you have to do the grind which means committing ships to a stay longer than collapse of the wormhole that brought you to the system. Such sieges are slow, dull and logistically annoying.
So - what is to be done? Introduce content that encourages conflict rather than gimp the content that is there.
Basically we need stuff that is possible to profitably deploy in w-space but which can't be removed easily in the timescale in which it takes folks to get to it from an incoming wormhole.
Examples (please accept that this hasn't been exhaustively considered for problems etc):
Gas-gathering deployable that can be dropped at a gas site and sucks in gas. Takes a while to un-anchor or to empty and can be scanned down readily. Shouts to its owners if someone else tries to take stuff from it or kill it. Give it enough HP for it to stick around a while when attacked and it becomes a point of conflict that is worth attacking for invaders and worth defending for locals. |
Phoenix Jones
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
422
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Posted - 2014.03.24 11:37:00 -
[304] - Quote
MadbaM wrote:This isn't about GOOD ******* FIGHTS, this is about risk reward!
This is about the wormhole community asking CCP for a dedicated TEAM to deal with and handle wormhole space.
This thread is a mish-mosh of issues with wormholes but it is all falling on deaf ears. So instead of having everybody just throw everything out there in every thread, how about just creating a internal CCP team to look at, review, compile and fix wormhole space as a whole?
Heck, announce it at Fanfest, even have a 4 hour sit-down with the wormhole community, write everything out, webcast it, take in questions, and have that team actually do some work on it.
That would appease the wormhole community MUCH more than suggesting the possibility of change, and you generate increased use of this half barren land.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Tsalaroth
BRG Corp
Ocularis Inferno
24
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Posted - 2014.03.24 11:48:00 -
[305] - Quote
I disagree that the "spamming of probes" made things "easier" in WH space. I agree that the sensor overlay DID make things easier, but to eliminate both is also eliminating the other send of your "spectrum of danger".
See, in the real world, if you analyze your risks and take steps to cover those risks, you can potentially profit greatly in a high-risk field.
A LOT of wormhole space is filled with folks like us, finding folks who DON'T d-scan, who DON'T use the overlay or DON'T use probes to look for K162's.
Either you're out of touch with what is REALLY going on in wormhole space, or you're listening to a small number of loud nerds.
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stierkobb
Hard Knocks Inc.
9
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Posted - 2014.03.24 11:49:00 -
[306] - Quote
Daemon Ceed wrote:I would support that K162's not show up on passive dscan immediately, but to delay them being detected by probes is a total no-go. Anyone that is actively scanning should be rewarded for their vigilance, while those who resort to detecting incoming enemies via d-scan overlay should be sacrificed to Bob.
This.
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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
18511
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Posted - 2014.03.24 12:13:00 -
[307] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The flipside is that actively hunting for pvp in wormholes should present more targets that have a slightly shorter notice to your arrival.
Arrival of hostile forces can always be almost instantly detected by using Directional Scans. there's more than one scanner.
I highly doubt that delaying the appearance of signatures can affect those who are constantly on their guard and currently there are a lot of people who do not use the directional scanner and get caught with their pants down. if you use all the tools at your disposal to detect incoming hostiles to their full potential, you won't get caught unprepared.
I would also like to point at the post above this one and second it.
tl;dr: Those who stay alert will still see incoming hostiles in time, whether the signature's appearance is delayed or not.
Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
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Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
355
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Posted - 2014.03.24 12:22:00 -
[308] - Quote
1) It is great that CCP is paying attention to WHs and want to make them better.
2) The immediate and automagical propagation of new signatures needs to go, at least in Wspace. This where the delay should be. They should still appear eventually, because its a nice user-friendly thing and we need that to increase the WH population, but they should not appear instantly.
3) Forced delay even when using probes is a bad idea because it prevents people from gathering information even through their own active endeavour. In sum: passive intel is bad, active intel is good. This is why we hate local so much - you dont need to do absolutely anything and it serves you perfect and up to date intel which cannot be avoided. And it is also why we respect combat scanning - its a learned skill that requires effort and patience and can be countered by vigilant victims, so the scanner actually needs to be good to succeed.
4) Delayed signature appearance would favour existing strong groups over smaller ones. WSpace should reward being sneaky and clever, not about getting advantage through numbers by arbitrary mechanics. This would also hurt groups in lower WH classes.
5) Proposed change would make seeding and quick defensive rolling uncounterable and usually even undiscoverable - again hurting active players. I'm especially worried about the rolling part. Engaging someone who just connected to our hole and wants to get rid of it is already very difficult and has very short time window. Preventing us from seeing it and scanning the connection altogether would make it nigh impossible and would make defensive rolling perfectly safe - which is very very bad. Wormohle pvpers do not find their content only in their static, we need incoming connections with which to interact as well.
6) This gets me to the overall aim of the proposal. It seem to be tailored towards ganking c5/c6 escalation runners but it is very narrow and without consideration to both other activities and to other WH classes. Imho the real problem of the often mentioned ease of avoiding pvp in wspace is NOT seeing the new connection (esp. if their automagical apperance on the overlay gets fixed) but how easy it is to get rid of it.
Rolling wormholes with capitals is just too safe, too risk-free. This is what I think needs adjusting. People who want to avoid pvp can currently simply isolate their system from other players and prevent interaction. And even if new connection spawns, unless its already bubbled (which shows enemy presence and removes any surprise) they can simply warp their rolling fleet to 0, jump in, jump out, and its done. Only possible counters are cloaky carrier and/or crossjumping T3 blob and getting trapped, which is less than ideal and highly disproportional.
Wormholes need more interaction between all kinds groups, not giving one of them advantage. We need more connections between all classes and we need those connections to be more risky (but not more difficult) to sever. We need it to be more difficult to isolate yourself, not to actively defend yourself from people you might meet. There were already suggestions for multiple static C4s, more roaming connections, making K162 sides spawn automatically without the need to warp to the sig, even spawing extra connections to wormholes with current sleeper kills. Add to that some new mechanic for riskier rolling (like the warp-in deviation increasing with ship mass I suggested earlier, or anything else) and you have a very good WH shakeup. All these would I think be much better for fixing the "pvp avoidance issue" without collaterally screwing someone or something else up.
W-Space Realtor |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores
Dominatus Atrum Mortis
16
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Posted - 2014.03.24 12:30:00 -
[309] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
Arrival of hostile forces can always be almost instantly detected by using Directional Scans. there's more than one scanner.
No argument there.
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
I highly doubt that delaying the appearance of signatures can affect those who are constantly on their guard and currently there are a lot of people who do not use the directional scanner and get caught with their pants down. if you use all the tools at your disposal to detect incoming hostiles to their full potential, you won't get caught unprepared.
Precisely -if you're willing to do a tedious, simple, manual task then the new mechanic won't have any effect on your gameplay.
Yay \o/ let's make EVE more tedious - that's what it needs.
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
tl;dr: Those who stay alert will still see incoming hostiles in time, whether the signature's appearance is delayed or not.
Those who are willing to put up with added tedium will be fine. Those that don't will migrate elsewhere (possibly out of the game).
This isn't a realistic solution. Tedium rarely solves problems.
On the other hand - we _could_ add things to realistically fight over rather than making existing gameplay less enjoyable for someone? Is that too radical an idea? |
Winthorp
1391
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 12:33:00 -
[310] - Quote
Axloth Okiah wrote:1) It is great that CCP is paying attention to WHs and want to make them better.
2) The immediate and automagical propagation of new signatures needs to go, at least in Wspace. This where the delay should be. They should still appear eventually, because its a nice user-friendly thing and we need that to increase the WH population, but they should not appear instantly.
3) Forced delay even when using probes is a bad idea because it prevents people from gathering information even through their own active endeavour. In sum: passive intel is bad, active intel is good. This is why we hate local so much - you dont need to do absolutely anything and it serves you perfect and up to date intel which cannot be avoided. And it is also why we respect combat scanning - its a learned skill that requires effort and patience and can be countered by vigilant victims, so the scanner actually needs to be good to succeed.
4) Delayed signature appearance would favour existing strong groups over smaller ones. WSpace should reward being sneaky and clever, not about getting advantage through numbers by arbitrary mechanics. This would also hurt groups in lower WH classes.
5) Proposed change would make seeding and quick defensive rolling uncounterable and usually even undiscoverable - again hurting active players. I'm especially worried about the rolling part. Engaging someone who just connected to our hole and wants to get rid of it is already very difficult and has very short time window. Preventing us from seeing it and scanning the connection altogether would make it nigh impossible and would make defensive rolling perfectly safe - which is very very bad. Wormhole pvpers do not find their content only in their static, we need incoming connections with which to interact as well.
6) This gets me to the overall aim of the proposal. It seems to be tailored towards ganking c5/c6 escalation runners but it is very narrow and without consideration to both other activities and to other WH classes. Imho the real problem of the often mentioned ease of avoiding pvp in wspace is NOT seeing the new connection (esp. if their automagical apperance on the overlay gets fixed) but how easy it is to get rid of it.
Rolling wormholes with capitals is just too safe, too risk-free. This is what I think needs adjusting. People who want to avoid pvp can currently simply isolate their system from other players and prevent interaction. And even if new connection spawns, unless its already bubbled (which shows enemy presence and removes any surprise) they can simply warp their rolling fleet to 0, jump in, jump out, and its done. Only possible counters are cloaky carrier and/or crossjumping T3 blob and getting trapped, which is less than ideal and highly disproportional (we usually dont mind getting collapsed in, many actually love going balls deep, the issue is that even if you're willing to commit to this highly risky "maneuver" it still is difficult to time it right and requires luck/ignorance).
Wormholes need more interaction between all kinds groups, not giving one of them advantage. We need more connections between all classes and we need those connections to be more risky (but not more difficult) to sever. We need it to be more difficult to isolate yourself, not to actively defend yourself from people you might meet. There were already suggestions for multiple static C4s, more roaming connections, making K162 sides spawn automatically without the need to warp to the sig, even spawing extra connections to wormholes with current sleeper kills. Add to that some new mechanic for riskier rolling (like the warp-in deviation increasing with ship mass I suggested earlier, or anything else) and you have a very good WH shakeup. All these would I think be much better for fixing the "pvp avoidance issue" without collaterally screwing someone or something else up.
This guy gets it.
(Insert witty signature here) |
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Peter Drakon
Independent Traders and Builders
Chained Reactions
10
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Posted - 2014.03.24 12:37:00 -
[311] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:...and we think it may be a very good opportunity to shake up wormhole life and further encourage the best parts of the wormhole experience...
When you wrote the best parts of the wormhole experience what did you mean exactly?
For me, this is the unknown, the exploration, the boldly go where no man has gone before part of wormhole life. Every wormhole is a new unknown, a new chance to explore, to find richness, enemies or friends. But this does not include the PvP, because that is everywhere in EvE, from the moment you log in into the game, wormholes are not a special PvP place, at least not any more special than any other game parts.
In my experience in the best games there are no one rules them all kind of win-buttons, but the mechanics are based on a rock-scissors-paper-lizard-spock meta game.
EvE is such a game: every action has a counter, every attack a possible defense. In high there is CONCORD and manual piloting, in low and null there is the local channel, and in wormholes there is the dscan and the probes. Every one of those things needs a player action to work, and any AFK playing is what surely will send someone back into a station to wake up in a fresh clone.
Your proposal tries to make more conflict without any chance to counter it, offering no rock to beat the scissor. I can accept that in your opinion at the moment it is too easy to escape from an attack, though I donGÇÖt agree with it, as it needs the defender player to be active, to play, to watch, to scan. If you have to change this, then I would like to ask for a mechanic that involves some action, that has a counter to the scissorGÇÖs attack.
Thinking about this problem this is the best I came up:
Make the dscan and the sensor overlay linked, neither automated, but the actual scan triggered from the press of the scan button, and make the scanning precision affected by the scanning skills.
For example the Astrometric Acquisition skill can change how fast a scan can happen after the button was pressed, so when you press the scan button the scan done is not instantaneous, but actually takes a few seconds to finish. Also, the sensor overlay should not be done instantly and automated, but the scan button should be pressed for an update. Maximum dscan range could be affected by the Astrometric Rangefinding (it could be 14AU only with maximum skills) and the distance and signature types shown in the description could be affected by the Astrometric Pinpointing skill (if low skill then a farther object would be "unkown").
Regards,
Peter |
MaxDEL
Quantum Explosion
E X P L O S I O N
14
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Posted - 2014.03.24 12:56:00 -
[312] - Quote
-É -+-+-¦-¦-é -Ç-¦-+-Ç-¦-¦-+-é-ç-+-¦-+ -â-¦-¦ -+-¦-ç-+-â-é -¦-â-+-¦-é-î -+-¦-¦ -¦-+-+-¦-¦ -¦-+-+-Ç-¦-+-+-¦-+-î-+-ï-+ -+-+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦-+ -¦-+-Ç-+-à-+-+-+-¦, -¦-+-¦-¦-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦-+ -+-+-¦-ï-à -ü-+-ü-é-¦-+, -¦-+-+-+-¦-+-+-¦, -¦-+-+-+-+-¦-+-+-ü-é-¦-¦ -+-¦-Ç-¦-¦-+-é-¦-¦ -+ -Ç-¦-+-+-+-+-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-Å -+-¦-+, -¦ -+-¦ -ü-+-+-¦-¦-¦-¦-é-î -é-¦-+-ï -ä-+-Ç-â-+-¦ -Ç-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-ü-â-¦-¦-¦-+-+-Å -¦-¦-¦-+-¦--é-+ -¦-+-â-+-+-ü-é-+. |
alex 121
Quantum Explosion
E X P L O S I O N
0
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:00:00 -
[313] - Quote
-Æ-¦-Ç-à-â-ê-¦-â -+-+-ë-¦-¦-+-¦ -å-¦-+-+-ç-¦-+ -Æ-Ñ -+-¦-+-+-+-¦-¦-é -Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-+-¦ -ü-+-+-¦-ë-¦-ü-é-¦-+. -í-+-ï-ü-+-¦ -ç-é-+ -é-+ -+-¦-ü-â-¦-¦-¦-é-î -é-â-é, -ü -é-¦-+-+ -¦-é-+ -¦-+-¦-¦-é -¦ -ü1--ü3 -+-¦-é |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
32
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:02:00 -
[314] - Quote
spaceghost69 wrote:Bjurn Akely wrote:That's the point he is making. You say 'OUR CAPITAL...'. There needs to be a solution that solves the problem for all classes of holes not just the ones you fly in. Well ok, just remove this bullshit of overlay everywhere in nullsec and go back to the previous system, i have no problem with that... Are we ok ?
Yeah, that's my suggestion anyway.  |
Rainbow Eyes
Sora no Otoshimano
0
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:12:00 -
[315] - Quote
I think it`s not good idea! If K162 will be detected with delay, when you scan with Probes
It`s awesome nerf of PvE and awesome bust of Covro gangs. For total nerf PvE in WH you must give prop subsystem with InterdictionLauncher&WarpDisraptionField!
In WH no Local, if you do this, WH resedent will be WILD paranoid... This is not normal game, it would be sheer misery. -óhis will cause a decline in popularity WH, if you want it, do it. It not so much will make life in WH more dangerous, how many will force players to suffer, that is. There will be an outflow of players.
If you are not satisfied with the current state of affairs in WH, you can do old system, when K162 see only with Probes. I living in WH and can say: at the moment there is very dangerous and no one will even 50% guarantees that next to you is not a pirate declock.
PS^ Sorry for my eng... |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Awakened.
1449
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:17:00 -
[316] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ali Aras wrote:Is "appears on probe scans but not sensor overlay" not possible? Yes, it's very possible, but (as talked about at the summit) it doesn't potentially handle the problem as comprehensively as this. To clarify, delaying the appearance in just the overlay and delaying it in both the overlay and probe scans would likely take a similar amount of development time.
Delaying the appearance of a new signature for the discovery scanner is fine and the way it should but also having a delay with scan probes would be a mistake.
If there is a signature in the system, you should be able to scan it down regardless of how long ago it spawned.
+1 |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
312
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:18:00 -
[317] - Quote
The core issue seems to be the binary nature of scanning- every signature of interest appears, thus when a new one comes into existence, be it a site or a wormhole, its existence is immediately apparent and only its position is uncertain (which can be rectified by probing).
The only way existence can be made uncertain is to a) stop all signatures auto-magically appearing (perhaps based on strength), b) have a way to confirm a 'weak' signature, but most importantly c) have false positives that must be cleared. A dedicated scanner that keeps bopping false positives is likely to detect a genuine new signature a lot faster, which favours those who put in effort.
Add to this a dynamic signature strength based on, perhaps, expended mass-limit (which could push it above the auto-magical limit), then you have a nice continuum between hard-to-locate unknown signatures and obvious incursions. |
Rainbow Eyes
Sora no Otoshimano
0
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:29:00 -
[318] - Quote
And most importantly, you will make it impossible farm for single pilots, while, as a group of pilots will be farmed almost unchanged... |
Kristalll
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
19
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:32:00 -
[319] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Sephira Galamore wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:And Mynnna, please keep your nose out of areas you have no understanding. A WH "ESS" is just a total BS idea given the nature of WH income to begin with. The idea isn't _that_ bad tbh. You could explain it along the lines of.. "WH effects prevent the use of normal tractor devices" or something.. No it is bad. There is a major difference between WH income and 0.0 income. .... So no WH ESS is bad. Turn the blue loot into bounties maybe, but otherwise no.
Cause apparently you're too stupid to recognize the point was about the structure that notifies locals of player activity. THAT was the point. It had nothing to do with how wormholers make money.
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Two step
Aperture Harmonics
No Holes Barred
4504
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:33:00 -
[320] - Quote
Schwa Nuts wrote:So far the bulk of the people I see supporting this change are the large w-space PVP corps -- the likes of AHARM, No Holes Barred, Verge of Collapse, and Sleeper Social Club. This is, of course, expected. All it does is give them an advantage. Hilariously, some of them even want a delay in appearing in local when exiting a wormhole into k-space -- an advantage no other area of New Eden gets.
No, the hilarious part is the nullsec farmers coming out and complaining about losing ships to logoff gangs.
I'd say the split is pretty clearly:
folks who have been in w-space for more than say 2 years: In favor
newer folks: opposed
All the complaints about w-space PVE being boring and terrible is also hilarious, since this would change that.
CSM 7 Secretary
CSM 6 Alternate Delegate
@two_step_eve on Twitter
My Blog
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Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
5
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:40:00 -
[321] - Quote
Two step wrote:
folks who have been in w-space for more than say 2 years: In favor
In favour of what ? Reading the thread there seem to be a fair number of veterans of w-space who in favour of a pre-odysessy situation where the delay only applies to the sensor overlay (in fact it just going on the first 10 pages it would appear to be a majority opinion).
Quote:
All the complaints about w-space PVE being boring and terrible is also hilarious, since this would change that.
Well, it would give additional reasons why PVE is 'terrible'. |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
359
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:43:00 -
[322] - Quote
alex 121 wrote:-Æ-¦-Ç-à-â-ê-¦-â -+-+-ë-¦-¦-+-¦ -å-¦-+-+-ç-¦-+ -Æ-Ñ -+-¦-+-+-+-¦-¦-é -Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-+-¦ -ü-+-+-¦-ë-¦-ü-é-¦-+. -í-+-ï-ü-+-¦ -ç-é-+ -é-+ -+-¦-ü-â-¦-¦-¦-é-î -é-â-é, -ü -é-¦-+-+ -¦-é-+ -¦-+-¦-¦-é -¦ -ü1--ü3 -+-¦-é http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mDTLphIVY
W-Space Realtor |
mechform
Obstergo
Red Coat Conspiracy
21
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:46:00 -
[323] - Quote
I am a fan of K162 not appearing on passive scan, but i think it should be appear on scan if a player is actively scanning.
Black Power - Brotha's in space unite! |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland
Test Alliance Please Ignore
596
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:51:00 -
[324] - Quote
I haven't read all 17 pages. So apologies if this has already been mentioned.
But why not have the delay be based off of system class? A K162 is the destination end of a static wormhole iirc. How about 1 minute per class, with class 1s having no delay? So like this:
- Class 1 - No delay
- Class 2 - 1 minute
- Class 3 - 2 minutes
- Class 4 - 3 minutes
- Class 5 - 4 minutes
- Class 6 - 5 minutes
tbh though, this doesn't stop someone from coming into your hole (pardon the pun) from your static or a roaming hole before you go probe it out. So honestly, I don't see how this changes anything in a significant way. If you're going to do something like this, make it apply to all wormholes, not just K162s.
Also, I told you [CCP] how putting grav sites into no-scan-required anoms would screw miners. But no one listened.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Veskin Sentinel
Stay Frosty.
0
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:52:00 -
[325] - Quote
Actually I'm starting to dislike this idea of delayed wormhole appearance on probe scan and overlay.
One good question about that is: What will happen when current wormhole exits collapse and new ones appear? They should be able to be scanned immediately or else people would be stuck in there.
I'm pretty sure that the current mechanics work good enough. |
Angux Thermopyle
Negative Density
24
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:55:00 -
[326] - Quote
Terrible idea.
I've lived in WH space for over 3 years and my primary role is PvP.
WH's should reward the vigilant and punish the lazy. Return the mechanics to pre-Odyssey.
Current mechanics reward the lazy.
Suggested mechanics punish even the vigilant.
Pre-Odyssey is the correct balance.
Wormhole income in the lower classes has already been greatly reduced and this change will make them unlivable. I can be on grid with a fleet running sites under a minute after I jump into the system and the fleet behind me...on them in under two. The people running the sites would have less than three seconds to detect me on D-scan as I enter their system. No warning I am there until I decloak to tackle... and by then the rest of my fleet is in warp. Imagine if you are a lowerclass Wormhole dweller and you are having to replace a tengu every week and taking the SP hit. You never get ahead. This is not a good change. Its not about protecting the carebears, its about rewarding the vigilant and punishing the lazy.
If the code is borked and you can't restore the previous mechanics then just leave it alone.
Can we please just do something about POS's and corp roles and stop screwing with stuff that isn't broke. Jeez. |
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
68
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:55:00 -
[327] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: or even one that is variable depending on the amount of mass that passes through the wormhole
This please. Fits well with the rest of EvE.
A lone scout can thus be sneaky and useful. But if a fleet is moving in to engage, the local dwellers are notified.
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls
No Response
67
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:56:00 -
[328] - Quote
Veskin Sentinel wrote:Actually I'm starting to dislike this idea of delayed wormhole appearance on probe scan and overlay.
One good question about that is: What will happen when current wormhole exits collapse and new ones appear? They should be able to be scanned immediately or else people would be stuck in there.
I'm pretty sure that the current mechanics work good enough.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here... If someone's trapped in a wormhole after a connection closes, it's either a K162 or wandering connection which will not be replaced in the hole that they are in, or a static connection which will reappear immediately even with the proposed changes... |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls
No Response
67
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:58:00 -
[329] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Sephira Galamore wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:And Mynnna, please keep your nose out of areas you have no understanding. A WH "ESS" is just a total BS idea given the nature of WH income to begin with. The idea isn't _that_ bad tbh. You could explain it along the lines of.. "WH effects prevent the use of normal tractor devices" or something.. No it is bad. There is a major difference between WH income and 0.0 income. .... So no WH ESS is bad. Turn the blue loot into bounties maybe, but otherwise no. Cause apparently you're too stupid to recognize the point was about the structure that notifies locals of player activity. THAT was the point. It had nothing to do with how wormholers make money.
Except someone then decided to claim that it was a good idea to have a wormhole ESS that takes part of your income in exchange for increased security. The original point is irrelevant because people WERE suggesting something a lot more like the ESS. |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Affirmative.
308
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Posted - 2014.03.24 14:08:00 -
[330] - Quote
Two step wrote:No, the hilarious part is the nullsec farmers coming out and complaining about losing ships to logoff gangs. Not a nullseccer, never lost a ship via a logoff gang.
Two step wrote:I'd say the split is pretty clearly:
folks who have been in w-space for more than say 2 years: In favor
newer folks: opposed
I'd say you have trouble reading.. :p
I've lived in wspace for in fact over 2 years, in 3 different systems. All <= C4 (and I have no interest in moving up). |
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