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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2014.03.23 23:32:00 -
[121] - Quote
The big problem I have is that many WH sites are anoms. This basically gives the invader complete surprise so long as they act quickly. Even with a mass restriction they could just pop in with bombers for a quick kill.
Perhaps another approach, what if random signals popped up in WH space from time to time? When scanned down they would just be random materials that somehow emitted a signal. It is unknown WH space after all. These random signals would have similar difficulty and the same unknown status as WH's to scan down.
This would mean that each new signal might prompt the players to scan, but they wouldn't be sure if it was a K162 or a random anom.
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Laryk
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
10
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Posted - 2014.03.23 23:34:00 -
[122] - Quote
Forgot to mention. Like the idea of PVEing in PVP ships. Maybe this will bring that trend back. |
ROSSLINDEN0
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
225
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Posted - 2014.03.23 23:36:00 -
[123] - Quote
Intana Kreis wrote:ROSSLINDEN0 wrote:******** idea imo, it not showing on overlay is good but not being able to probe it is way too powerful to the person who opened it, i could scout the full system and see how many and what ships they have online and form a gank fleet in the time it takes for the sig to show.... and if they have too much, roll in the time it takes for the sig to show.
Yes, can we get people to these townhall meets who are willing to disagree with the crowd and not just agree to every **** idea shat out on the table |
Kristalll
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:37:00 -
[124] - Quote
Hmm, this seems to start fixing many problems CCP has been looking at and would greatly favor real w-space corps and live and die in W-space.
Specifically as a result of making the carebear types less safe, you'll end up with less farmers. This will translate into more valuable salvage and hacking loot for the combat w-space corps, as well as increase the cost of T3s, which is nearly a must with the current state of T3s being somewhat overpowered. If T3s started costing more again, then their rebalance won't be nearly as destructive. |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
244
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Posted - 2014.03.23 23:37:00 -
[125] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:I do agree with the idea as it would mean more htfu in wspace. Wspace people can make a lot of isk and the space does not have local. It should be mysterious and unknown. I do understand people position to farm in peace but i do not understand your spirit of wspace.
Please don't reduce this change to be something as simple as PvE vs PvP mindset,
There is no equality in this change, it allows a headstart for people who roll into others, they have a good X long headstart where (bar a lucky server tick where the scout is seen on dscan) there is no way to even proactively defend onself.
There is no fun in playing an unwinnable game, it is frustrating when you do something wrong yes, but you can take lessons away and learn from it.
Here we have a situation where by chance if RNGesus hates/loves you and you roll into or someone rolls into you, stuff will die.
Nothing to learn, nothing to improve,
Wheres the attraction in that? I enjoy the hunt, and agree currently things aren't in a perfect state but are we really going to go down the track where kills come from bad/good luck? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Finarfin
Reconfiguration Nation
24
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Posted - 2014.03.23 23:39:00 -
[126] - Quote
I am in favour in of this change as I personally find it way too easy to be almost completely secure in your own WH but I can understand the vehement critics of this proposed change.
I really liked the compromise posted earlier in this thread which would make K162 only appear once someone has jumped through or at least significantly shorten the delay (30secs max). |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2073
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:40:00 -
[127] - Quote
Overall I think the idea is also crap.
To recap as others have pointed out.
1. A PVP adverse group can easily roll their connection before you have a chance to scan them down. 2 You might as well remove grav sites as nobody in their right mind would ever mine again. Now I'm not a fan of Mining, but I respect those who do (and do enjoy occasionally running into them).
Now IMO a relatively easy comprimise is as follows. If I understand correctly the overlay scanner already only scans every 60 seconds? So at most there is a 1 minute delay. So just up the scanning interval. Say 15 minutes. You don't have to try and strip it out just for WH space, but it largely negates its use as a passive intel tool in all space.
And Mynnna, please keep your nose out of areas you have no understanding. A WH "ESS" is just a total BS idea given the nature of WH income to begin with. |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
244
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:41:00 -
[128] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:I think what this change will do is not bigger praying on the weaker but rather stopping the log off gangs in favor of rolling gangs.
Beacuase EvE players never take the easier option https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Aurora Fatalis
Stillwater Corporation
78
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Posted - 2014.03.23 23:42:00 -
[129] - Quote
Instead of instantly being revealed to the entire system at once, what if the data of a new K162 spawning propagated at some speed, say, 0.1 AU/s?
You could probe it down if your probe was lucky enough to be close to the spawn site, but one alt doing a system-encompassing scan would likely not. That leaves the counterplay of having scouts for advance warning, but doesn't make it ridiculously easy to pull off.
I know it's different from any other system in EVE, but now I kind of want Dscan to propagate at something like 1 AU as well... If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you? |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
244
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:43:00 -
[130] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Overall I think the idea is also crap.
To recap as others have pointed out.
1. A PVP adverse group can easily roll their connection before you have a chance to scan them down. 2 You might as well remove grav sites as nobody in their right mind would ever mine again. Now I'm not a fan of Mining, but I respect those who do (and do enjoy occasionally running into them).
Now IMO a relatively easy comprimise is as follows. If I understand correctly the overlay scanner already only scans every 60 seconds? So at most there is a 1 minute delay. So just up the scanning interval. Say 15 minutes. You don't have to try and strip it out just for WH space, but it largely negates its use as a passive intel tool in all space.
And Mynnna, please keep your nose out of areas you have no understanding. A WH "ESS" is just a total BS idea given the nature of WH income to begin with.
I think hes trolling a bit, because to be fair when Null complained about the ESS and its badness, some chaps decided to... "creatively" use it in Wspace https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society Affirmative.
303
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:45:00 -
[131] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:And Mynnna, please keep your nose out of areas you have no understanding. A WH "ESS" is just a total BS idea given the nature of WH income to begin with. The idea isn't _that_ bad tbh. You could explain it along the lines of.. "WH effects prevent the use of normal tractor devices" or something.. |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
244
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:49:00 -
[132] - Quote
Although, to be fair and not a moaning soul i will propose an idea that i think may help,
Scan probes currently have a fixed scanning time, if we were to alter this to have a probe that is scanning a 16 AU range take longer than a 0.5 AU range it would achieve a similar effect to what is happening here.
BUT it would leave the option for
- knowing signature mechanics and its effect on spawns, - having an option to find k162's if you are looking, - having a tradeoff between difficulty, effort and reward - still having a degree of stealth to attackers
edit- kill that stupid P.o.S discovery spinning crap https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2073
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:56:00 -
[133] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:And Mynnna, please keep your nose out of areas you have no understanding. A WH "ESS" is just a total BS idea given the nature of WH income to begin with. The idea isn't _that_ bad tbh. You could explain it along the lines of.. "WH effects prevent the use of normal tractor devices" or something..
No it is bad.
There is a major difference between WH income and 0.0 income.
If I get jumped in a Sanctum, I at least got bounties paid for all of my activity up until that point. (whatever the % is based on an ESS etc).
In WH space I make 0 isk running WH sites. (risk involved). In fact I make 0 isk collecting loot and salvaging (risk involved).
In fact in order to make ANY isk until I:
1. Run a site 2. Loot salvage a site 3. Safely store the loot (there is a risk however small of getting evicted) 4. Transport the loot through WH space 5. transport the loot thru k-space to a station for sale.
each step of the way has enough risk just to make the isk.
So no WH ESS is bad. Turn the blue loot into bounties maybe, but otherwise no. |
Kateryna I
Lords Of The Universe Exiled Ones
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:57:00 -
[134] - Quote
Quincy Thibaud wrote:This is good. I approve.
While you're at it, how about making ships that enter a null or low sec system from a WH in that system have a delayed appearance in local?
This, definitely would need to go in line with the fix. Also scaling the delay ie. C1 no delay, C6 big delay. Also mass dependant, ie one frig goes through and sig is still not visible for x time depending on WH class,three cruisers go through and it immediately shows up, again mass and time delay dependant on WH class.
There are some things this change can improve, but it will be all in the details as to not to spoil the fun for either groups of players. Polish PVP corp looking for members to have some fun together. Join me! Check our KB |
MadbaM
Hard Knocks Inc.
74
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:02:00 -
[135] - Quote
First of i like the idea, i think it is a good one that is a realistic and achievable way of balancing the filed. PVE in WH's as it stands is practically risk free if you have any sense what so ever. What staggers me is the ignorance of the current occupants in WH space as to the basic mechanics of the space there living in.
I'm torn between pointing out the glaringly obvious to all of the care bares and my desire to keep you ignorant so i can kill you more easily.
The people on the K162 side already have the advantage when it comes to detecting new signatures being that it shows up for them the second warp is initiated to the hole on the other side. So you have the time it takes possible aggressors to warp to a WH then book mark it, boat the 10-5k you land from the hole jump then finish session change, d-scan to see any potential gank-e's, then further D-Scan them to a specific 100% site or drop probes and find you.
Even the most competent on PVP groups rolling with aggressive intent, this process takes 1 maybe 2 minutes. Not taking into account more PVP like to have eyes on the PVE's before dropping the fleet on them another minute and that's assuming your at the warping if not you have to BM a wreck and wait for it to show up in shared book marks something that in on itself can take an age.
So in order for me to catch a capital in a site it has to be a minimum of 1 minute into its siege/triage timer, and that's with me doing everything perfectly.
So if you still haven't spotted on your probes the new sigg in your system then to be totally honest with you, your incompetent and have no business living in Bob's space.
I have lived in WH space since its introduction, i have spent the last 2 years in Hard Knocks running capital escalations 3 or 4 times a week. And we have never lost a PVE fleet, in fact as it stands the only conceivable way i can imagine loosing one is to be Blood Union'ed.
So yes please, I personally fully endorse encourage this idea, even if it ends up being boiled down to K162's only showing once you have jumped. Because the current state of PVE affairs in WH space is untenable.
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Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society Affirmative.
303
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:04:00 -
[136] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:In fact I make 0 isk collecting loot and salvaging (risk involved). Exactly because of that its not as much of an impact to WH than NS.. Instead of having the Noctis exposed you now have the "Salvage/Loot ESS". |
Intana Kreis
The Red Circle Inc.
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:05:00 -
[137] - Quote
I doubt if any of the complicated mechanisms a lot of players outlined above have a hope of ever being implemented. It'll turn out that a wormhole is actually a special case of some other object, doesn't have any of the properties needed to implement the necessary statistics, and adding in all the dependencies would be half a POS-rewrite worth of code. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:06:00 -
[138] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Sephira Galamore wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:And Mynnna, please keep your nose out of areas you have no understanding. A WH "ESS" is just a total BS idea given the nature of WH income to begin with. The idea isn't _that_ bad tbh. You could explain it along the lines of.. "WH effects prevent the use of normal tractor devices" or something.. No it is bad. There is a major difference between WH income and 0.0 income. If I get jumped in a Sanctum, I at least got bounties paid for all of my activity up until that point. (whatever the % is based on an ESS etc). In WH space I make 0 isk running WH sites. (risk involved). In fact I make 0 isk collecting loot and salvaging (risk involved). In fact in order to make ANY isk I have to: 1. Run a site 2. Loot salvage a site 3. Safely store the loot (there is a risk however small of getting evicted) 4. Transport the loot through WH space 5. transport the loot thru k-space to a station for sale. each step of the way has enough risk just to make the isk. So no WH ESS is bad. Turn the blue loot into bounties maybe, but otherwise no.
and 3.5 - spy can steal it
besides, killing farming fleet on site is not about getting their isk, is about getting the kills themself, who cares if i grab their loot or not if i kill their triage and dreads in the process Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:07:00 -
[139] - Quote
Kateryna I wrote:Quincy Thibaud wrote:This is good. I approve.
While you're at it, how about making ships that enter a null or low sec system from a WH in that system have a delayed appearance in local?
This, definitely would need to go in line with the fix. Also scaling the delay ie. C1 no delay, C6 big delay. Also mass dependant, ie one frig goes through and sig is still not visible for x time depending on WH class,three cruisers go through and it immediately shows up, again mass and time delay dependant on WH class. There are some things this change can improve, but it will be all in the details as to not to spoil the fun for either groups of players.
the moment the fleet jumped trough wh its already too late for defender Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:07:00 -
[140] - Quote
MadbaM wrote:First of i like the idea, i think it is a good one that is a realistic and achievable way of balancing the filed. PVE in WH's as it stands is practically risk free if you have any sense what so ever. What staggers me is the ignorance of the current occupants in WH space as to the basic mechanics of the space there living in.
I'm torn between pointing out the glaringly obvious to all of the care bares and my desire to keep you ignorant so i can kill you more easily.
The people on the K162 side already have the advantage when it comes to detecting new signatures being that it shows up for them the second warp is initiated to the hole on the other side. So you have the time it takes possible aggressors to warp to a WH then book mark it, boat the 10-5k you land from the hole jump then finish session change, d-scan to see any potential gank-e's, then further D-Scan them to a specific 100% site or drop probes and find you.
Even the most competent on PVP groups rolling with aggressive intent, this process takes 1 maybe 2 minutes. Not taking into account more PVP like to have eyes on the PVE's before dropping the fleet on them another minute and that's assuming your at the warping if not you have to BM a wreck and wait for it to show up in shared book marks something that in on itself can take an age.
So in order for me to catch a capital in a site it has to be a minimum of 1 minute into its siege/triage timer, and that's with me doing everything perfectly.
So if you still haven't spotted on your probes the new sigg in your system then to be totally honest with you, your incompetent and have no business living in Bob's space.
I have lived in WH space since its introduction, i have spent the last 2 years in Hard Knocks running capital escalations 3 or 4 times a week. And we have never lost a PVE fleet, in fact as it stands the only conceivable way i can imagine loosing one is to be Blood Union'ed.
So yes please, I personally fully endorse encourage this idea, the best iteration suggestion so far is that the K162's only showing once you have jumped. Because the current state of PVE affairs in WH space is untenable.
I get the point that you're making here, and I do agree that a shift to only showing the sig on the other side once the jump has been made would improve things for a lot of people doing a lot of different things, without really having too serious a negative downside. I absolutely don't agree with the change as originally proposed. |
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Karen Galeo
Sin Factory Infinite Anarchy
17
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Posted - 2014.03.24 00:08:00 -
[141] - Quote
Right, lots of thoughts in this thread already. One of my favorites:
[quote[And that just re-emphasizes how "you can't get this intel no matter what you do" is a problem.[/quote]
I absolutely think that the new sigs should not show up on the overlay, and I would be fine with a 30 - 45 second delay before the K162 is probable - time for the scout who scanned down the named side to warp to it, jump through, and hold their cloak. Any longer than that (the aforementioned 5 mins +/- 2 that someone brought up, or the 15 min someone said, or the 20 minutes it'd take for the sig to propagate at .1 AU/s across a 120 AU system) and things tilt far too far in favor of the people who opened the hole.
This will affect more than just the 'targeted' cap escalation fleets - especially if the delay is higher (!) for a bigger threat, like a larger hole. Author of the Karen 162 blog. Karen Galeo is running for CSM9! |
Spillrag
Lazerhawks
13
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Posted - 2014.03.24 00:11:00 -
[142] - Quote
please yes |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:12:00 -
[143] - Quote
Intana Kreis wrote:I doubt if any of the complicated mechanisms a lot of players outlined above have a hope of ever being implemented. It'll turn out that a wormhole is actually a special case of some other object, doesn't have any of the properties needed to implement the necessary statistics, and adding in all the dependencies would be half a POS-rewrite worth of code.
who said it will be wh specific? I'm pretty sure it will work for ALL k162 in the game and not only in wh Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2074
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:16:00 -
[144] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:besides, killing farming fleet on site is not about getting their isk, is about getting the kills themself, who cares if i grab their loot or not if i kill their triage and dreads in the process
And here lies one telltale issue.
Something like this is going to make it far more dangerous to make isk in WH space. That being said while WH income is good, it really doesn't get "great" until C5+
C1-C4 income can get pretty decent, but when you factor in all of the "extra" stuff the isk/hr really isn't amazing. You have the logistics/cost of a POS. You have the logistics of getting loot to market, manually splitting isk between members (since it isn't bounty based). You have lots of static rolling to hope to keep isk flowing vs respawning 0.0 anoms and unlimited missions.
Bottom line is something this drastic will likely empty out much of C1-C4 space. I roam around a fair amount and it is already empty enough. I want more groups to come live in WH space, not fewer.
What I still don't get is what is the goal? I don't recall people really complaining hard about this issue until the overlay came about. So fix the overlay issue. Either disable it in WH space or make it scan at such a low frequency it is not viable as a passive intel tool. Why is there suddenly a need to swing the pendulum farther? |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:17:00 -
[145] - Quote
Karen Galeo wrote:Right, lots of thoughts in this thread already. One of my favorites: Quote:And that just re-emphasizes how "you can't get this intel no matter what you do" is a problem. I absolutely think that the new sigs should not show up on the overlay, and I would be fine with a 30 - 45 second delay before the K162 is probable - time for the scout who scanned down the named side to warp to it, jump through, and hold their cloak. Any longer than that (the aforementioned 5 mins +/- 2 that someone brought up, or the 15 min someone said, or the 20 minutes it'd take for the sig to propagate at .1 AU/s across a 120 AU system) and things tilt far too far in favor of the people who opened the hole. This will affect more than just the 'targeted' cap escalation fleets - especially if the delay is higher (!) for a bigger threat, like a larger hole.
i kind of agree that defenders indeed have few extra secionds due to warp time and jump time scanner have to perform.
But i would take no more than 20 seconds into consideration (if the goal is to just balance the time scanner need to actually appear in system)
Covert ops (t3 are in disadvantage here) need less than 10 sec to land on wh (unless huge system) and another 5 -10 seconds to load new system after clicking jump. period. t3's need few more seconds of warp. so in avarage from the moment scaner calls warp to the moment he is in the system its 20 secs, give or take 5 sec. Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:18:00 -
[146] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Intana Kreis wrote:I doubt if any of the complicated mechanisms a lot of players outlined above have a hope of ever being implemented. It'll turn out that a wormhole is actually a special case of some other object, doesn't have any of the properties needed to implement the necessary statistics, and adding in all the dependencies would be half a POS-rewrite worth of code. who said it will be wh specific? I'm pretty sure it will work for ALL k162 in the game and not only in wh
Uh... I'm pretty sure the're referring to the actual wormholes, not wormhole space. All K162s are one side of a wormhole, that hole just doesn't necessarily go to or from an Anoikis system. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:20:00 -
[147] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Max Kolonko wrote:besides, killing farming fleet on site is not about getting their isk, is about getting the kills themself, who cares if i grab their loot or not if i kill their triage and dreads in the process And here lies one telltale issue. Something like this is going to make it far more dangerous to make isk in WH space. That being said while WH income is good, it really doesn't get "great" until C5+ C1-C4 income can get pretty decent, but when you factor in all of the "extra" stuff the isk/hr really isn't amazing. You have the logistics/cost of a POS. You have the logistics of getting loot to market, manually splitting isk between members (since it isn't bounty based). You have lots of static rolling to hope to keep isk flowing vs respawning 0.0 anoms and unlimited missions. Bottom line is something this drastic will likely empty out much of C1-C4 space. I roam around a fair amount and it is already empty enough. I want more groups to come live in WH space, not fewer. What I still don't get is what is the goal? I don't recall people really complaining hard about this issue until the overlay came about. So fix the overlay issue. Either disable it in WH space or make it scan at such a low frequency it is not viable as a passive intel tool. Why is there suddenly a need to swing the pendulum farther?
exactly - the overlay is the problem, so i think the overlay - at least for k162 - should be delayed (no need for delaying other sugnals as they are not imidiate threat that attacker can exploit) but leave probes as they are right now. Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
607
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:50:00 -
[148] - Quote
Aurora Fatalis wrote:Instead of instantly being revealed to the entire system at once, what if the data of a new K162 spawning propagated at some speed, say, 0.1 AU/s?
You could probe it down if your probe was lucky enough to be close to the spawn site, but one alt doing a system-encompassing scan would likely not. That leaves the counterplay of having scouts for advance warning, but doesn't make it ridiculously easy to pull off.
I know it's different from any other system in EVE, but now I kind of want Dscan to propagate at something like 1 AU as well... This is interesting. A signature spawns and begins to announce it's presence gradually, like a water ripple effect, starting at 1 AU and increasing in size untill it is seen from anywhere in the system.
This adds some interesting mechanics because depending on where the signature spawned different parts of the system would be notified of it at different times.
I wonder if it is even possible to implement or how it would've behaved in very large/small systems. CSM9 Candidate: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326853 Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/asayanami Twitter: https://twitter.com/Asayanami
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Nox52
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:50:00 -
[149] - Quote
Against the proposed implementation. If I do something active I should have a result for it. I click on guns, I shoot something. I press dscan I get a result. If I probe something I should get a sig result not empty space.
Change it to how it was before if a sig spawns don't show it on overlay until it gets scanned. And really wh shouldn't spawn on he far side until something went through.
It's just silly. If someone rolls into me I should be able to scan their hole down put a scan though it and get intel so I can put a good fleet comp on the hole or their system.
If it does go through how about we also take the opportunity to introduce delayed local for those entering k space from whs. About 5 minutes should do it right? |
A Research Alt
Perkone Caldari State
146
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 01:01:00 -
[150] - Quote
I'd be all over this as soon as AFK cloaking wasn't a thing anymore.
(this is a dumb, bad idea) |
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