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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
643
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 01:45:00 -
[511] - Quote
Stampede McNabb wrote:Gnaw LF wrote:
First, I will continue using the condescending tone to you since you have problems comprehending the basic design principles behind EvE. Second, there is nothing wrong with being the aggressor, thats what this game is about.
You have an opinion, I have an opinion. You only have one opinion. I have one opinion. You don't hold the copyright on "what this game is about". It is about what I make it for me. Get over yourself.
That is not an opinion that is a fact from CCP. Guess why they are putting the deployable siphon units? I will give you a hint, its not so you and other bears can give each other hugs. |
NinjaTurtle
Carte Blanche. Trading
65
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 01:45:00 -
[512] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:NinjaTurtle wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:NinjaTurtle wrote:A town hall with this little information on a huge mechanic change would be completely pointless. Picture rolls of tinfoil being thrown across a packed room. It would be with current CSM members, who have discussed this topic with CCP. This idea has been floating around in CSM circles for a while... So they can surely add valuable information regarding mechanics. and the NDA will still prevent them from giving us anything of meaning, outside of anecdotal wisdom and gentle coddling if you're into that sort of thing. My primary concern is to make sure that if the overall majority of wormhole space doesn't want a certain change, the current CSM members are in line with this and that we don't get to see CSM members voicing a different opinion then what the actual community wants. Then CSM members would mis-represent the community, and that is unacceptable. We can have a discussion about this subject without breaking the NDA.
I do understand your concern and concur with the intent: a majority decision is always better. Unfortunately there is no existing quantitative metric for these kinds of things and tbh, townhalls tend to be much more 'qualitative' than a widely accessible forum post. Co-host and editor of Declarations of War Podcast http://declarationsofwar.com Twitter- @schertt |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
178
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 01:45:00 -
[513] - Quote
Gustava Risalo wrote:Senn Denroth wrote:You seem mad you noob. Nobody is immune, and that is what wormhole space should be like. Eg: http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=34504IMO what is should be changed to is 2-3 spawn timer for a K162 on the noob autoscanner. Or instant detection if you have probes out scanning, that way both the farmers are kept somewhat happy and the entities that roam like a wolf in the night are kept happy. Just as wormhole space should be. You're making upwards of 300m/hr so grow some testies. Your ships are never really safe because wormholes space is supposed to be the wild west of EVE, a true sandbox. If you are voicing these concerns purely from a farmers point of view we will come for you, and no amount of probes or noobscanner will save you. Whatever change you make Fozzie, I hope you consider it balanced for both parties like I have suggested above. This way the lazy people lose out, and those that are vigilant and activity playing the game will be kept on their toes. Listen up chucklefuck, I have heard this same kind of bs from many players in the years i have been playing eve. It is always the same. Local too strong can't warp in fast enough. Noobscanner saves them. Oh god they are using probes we can't get a fight. If you want pvp in eve ADAPT. ADAPT AND SURVIVE. Don't ***** to ccp that the game isn't fair. Maybe the 300mi/hour in isk you make hasn't sprouted your ********* yet. Perhaps when you hit 500mil/hour you might see them drop an inch. Until then keep your whiny **** to your private forums.
Are you mad? You seem mad?
I said upwards of 300m/hr. We do about 600m/hr. We do apart, I'm just trying to warn CCP of making a potential game breaking change because they listened to the voice of noobs like you which are the loudest. The best fairest choices in life are not always the most popular, you might learn this one day. |
Tyrant Scorn
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 01:50:00 -
[514] - Quote
NinjaTurtle wrote:I do understand your concern and concur with the intent: a majority decision is always better. Unfortunately there is no existing quantitative metric for these kinds of things and tbh, townhalls tend to be much more 'qualitative' than a widely accessible forum post.
Yeah, I agree it's hard to get a good insight but I think on this particular issue we can clearly see what the overall community thinks of a delay feature.
Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
643
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 01:53:00 -
[515] - Quote
Gustava Risalo wrote: Listen up chucklefuck, I have heard this same kind of bs from many players in the years i have been playing eve. It is always the same. Local too strong can't warp in fast enough. Noobscanner saves them. Oh god they are using probes we can't get a fight.
If you want pvp in eve ADAPT. ADAPT AND SURVIVE. Don't ***** to ccp that the game isn't fair. Maybe the 300mi/hour in isk you make hasn't sprouted your ********* yet. Perhaps when you hit 500mil/hour you might see them drop an inch. Until then keep your whiny **** to your private forums.
You are not a very intelligent person. PvE is a very easy and straightforward implementation, it is literally a single player game with some server side code. In order to PvE the devs just need to give you a ship and put in some red crosses to shoot at. PvE and cooperative PvE is also among one of the most widely available MMO mechanics, you can PvE in pretty much every MMO. In many of those MMOs you can PvE without ANY risk.
EvE stands apart from all those MMOs in the way it does the PvP mechanics. That is what EvE is about, its about bringing two human parties into conflict. That portion of EvE is far more difficult to balance then PvE, its requires a lot of work and feedback from the users. CCP is constantly balancing the game in order to make it so that PvP cannot be avoided, or nearly avoided. So no, its not up to PvPers to adopt and survive, it is up for PvE players to do that because this is a PVP oriented game and no amount of temper tantrums on the official forums are going to change that. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 01:59:00 -
[516] - Quote
Just because Eve is different from other MMOs doesn't mean you get to say "You guys have to adapt to the game being how I want it"
There is a balance to be found and making it impossible for the defending party to get information is not that balance. |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:09:00 -
[517] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Just because Eve is different from other MMOs doesn't mean you get to say "You guys have to adapt to the game being how I want it"
There is a balance to be found and making it impossible for the defending party to get information is not that balance.
*sigh* it's not impossible it's a delay and you've had a delay before, it was how long it too your probes to complete your scan plus however long you waited between scans. All this would be is a longer rigid server side version of that. Nothing more. There is balance to be found and that balance is in removing the defenders massive advantage in having the K162 appear straight away in the scan window. The attacker gets NO information immediately, why should the defender.
Is it a terrible long way around fixing this massive defender advantage? yes. But as this is whats being put forth, chances are there's technical/time issues that prevent the correct fixes being implemented, namely K162's spawning when the attacker lands on grid/jumps the wormhole and signals only being shown via scan probes. |
DoToo Foo
Weaponised FuGu
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:12:00 -
[518] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:... Yo, not every person in corp/alliance is in need of ISK or interested in running sites for extended period of time. A group can have 5/6 pilots doing sites and 10 others who are online but are not participating. Not to mention that many groups use jabber/slack to ping their offline membership.
Not every wormhole corp has (or wants) dreads.
In our classes of wormholes (c1-c4), the fight is over before someone could even log in. The sole exception was when I lost my orca on a wormhole. I have never brought an orca back into WH space, so that is unlikely to occur again.
For higher end groups, using siege/bastion mode, the delay appears unnecessary. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:15:00 -
[519] - Quote
I would be entirely happy with having the wormhole spawn upon someone landing on grid, rather than warping (there are additional problems related to the propogation of K162 holes that would be presented if someone could see the show info box on a wormhole without creating the other side), in combination with requiring scan probes to be used. In my eyes that is a better balance than the proposal, and better than what we have now.
The delay of the probes completing their scan is also a decent way of balancing signatures because it promotes activity and also rewards somebody who trains the related skill. Having a minute or two minute or five minute delay during which you can't use your own scouts to get the same intel on the people who have rolled into you will unfairly punish people who would be interested in fighting but are instead forced to sit twiddling their thumbs while the timer ticks down. |
Phoenix Jones
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
429
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:31:00 -
[520] - Quote
Good grief this does not promote pvp.
There are better ways.
No delay, no sneaky hole, you want to promote more pvp, make more routes. People try to crit route, double it.
Each time you crit a wormhole (under 50%) a new wormhole spawns Each time you crit a wormhole (under 5%) a new wormhole spawns Each time you collapse a wormhole, a new one (the static) spawns.
What you wind up doing is killing your static, and generating 3 holes.
You could generate 200 holes, it won't make people fight. You start sieging, they pack up and leave. Damage... Done?
I've been saying this before, wormholes have to matter. Currently they are being farmed just like any instanced dungeon in any other game. Ccp's solution to stop that... Secret gank hole? This does not require argument of debate, as anybody with even 5 cents worth of common sense sees that this is a completely game wrecking and BAD idea. It does not fix or enhance anything....
It was apparently brought up before, shot down with resounding applause.. And it's still here now with the greater support of current and former csm?
Some people have lost touch with the community they were once apart of. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
507
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:36:00 -
[521] - Quote
I'm applying real world mechanics here, but they actually make sense in this aspect.
If someones scanning for something, you can pick it up the moment it appears... Not before, not 30 seconds or a minute later. The very moment it appears.
The use of probes in Eve is exactly the same. If you have probes out and a new sig appears, you should be able to pick up that signature immediately. Not before, not 30 seconds or a minute later.
By all means remove it from the system scanner or overlay, but not from the probe scanner. That's just plain silly. And if this is going to be the case, how about we get a delayed "name show up in local" if we jump into a nullbear farming system??? Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Gustava Risalo
Sons of Sarah Kerrigan
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:46:00 -
[522] - Quote
Senn Denroth wrote:Gustava Risalo wrote:Senn Denroth wrote:You seem mad you noob. Nobody is immune, and that is what wormhole space should be like. Eg: http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=34504IMO what is should be changed to is 2-3 spawn timer for a K162 on the noob autoscanner. Or instant detection if you have probes out scanning, that way both the farmers are kept somewhat happy and the entities that roam like a wolf in the night are kept happy. Just as wormhole space should be. You're making upwards of 300m/hr so grow some testies. Your ships are never really safe because wormholes space is supposed to be the wild west of EVE, a true sandbox. If you are voicing these concerns purely from a farmers point of view we will come for you, and no amount of probes or noobscanner will save you. Whatever change you make Fozzie, I hope you consider it balanced for both parties like I have suggested above. This way the lazy people lose out, and those that are vigilant and activity playing the game will be kept on their toes. Listen up chucklefuck, I have heard this same kind of bs from many players in the years i have been playing eve. It is always the same. Local too strong can't warp in fast enough. Noobscanner saves them. Oh god they are using probes we can't get a fight. If you want pvp in eve ADAPT. ADAPT AND SURVIVE. Don't ***** to ccp that the game isn't fair. Maybe the 300mi/hour in isk you make hasn't sprouted your ********* yet. Perhaps when you hit 500mil/hour you might see them drop an inch. Until then keep your whiny **** to your private forums. Are you mad? You seem mad? I said upwards of 300m/hr. We do about 600m/hr. We do apart, I'm just trying to warn CCP of making a potential game breaking change because they listened to the voice of noobs like you which are the loudest. The best fairest choices in life are not always the most popular, you might learn this one day.
U MAD? HEY YOU SEEM MAD?
You sprout a terrible meme bring nothing new to the table and don't even try to refute my argument. At least Gnaw LF took a position.
Next time save me the trouble of reading your horrible posting.
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Gustava Risalo
Sons of Sarah Kerrigan
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:00:00 -
[523] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Gustava Risalo wrote: Listen up chucklefuck, I have heard this same kind of bs from many players in the years i have been playing eve. It is always the same. Local too strong can't warp in fast enough. Noobscanner saves them. Oh god they are using probes we can't get a fight.
If you want pvp in eve ADAPT. ADAPT AND SURVIVE. Don't ***** to ccp that the game isn't fair. Maybe the 300mi/hour in isk you make hasn't sprouted your ********* yet. Perhaps when you hit 500mil/hour you might see them drop an inch. Until then keep your whiny **** to your private forums.
You are not a very intelligent person. PvE is a very easy and straightforward implementation, it is literally a single player game with some server side code. In order to PvE the devs just need to give you a ship and put in some red crosses to shoot at. PvE and cooperative PvE is also among one of the most widely available MMO mechanics, you can PvE in pretty much every MMO. In many of those MMOs you can PvE without ANY risk. EvE stands apart from all those MMOs in the way it does the PvP mechanics. That is what EvE is about, its about bringing two human parties into conflict. That portion of EvE is far more difficult to balance then PvE, its requires a lot of work and feedback from the users. CCP is constantly balancing the game in order to make it so that PvP cannot be avoided, or nearly avoided. So no, its not up to PvPers to adopt and survive, it is up for PvE players to do that because this is a PVP oriented game and no amount of temper tantrums on the official forums are going to change that.
Last time I looked at the VoC killboard you all had plenty of kills some from nullsec, some for lowsec and some from w-space. The claim has been made that the instant spawning of a k-162 is hampering the pvp in w-space so terrible that w-space is no longer risky enough to be worth the reward. You seem to be getting plenty of kills for your effort so clearly pvp in w-space is working.
PVE players have adapted as you claim and you get less ganks or pvp because they adapted. So then pvpers make the cry that a mechanic is hampering their chosen play style. Why is it you wish for the PVE players to adapt but the pvpers just get mechanics changed and the game rebalanced? |
Rain6637
Team Evil
13092
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:02:00 -
[524] - Quote
Fozzie, also consider why it's so hard to find a wormhole on SiSi. President of the-áCommissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Rainfleet Mk III |
Tyrant Scorn
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:04:00 -
[525] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Fozzie, also consider why it's so hard to find a wormhole on SiSi.
Its so hard because they don't get rotated. No one is in them on SiSi, so they stay in the same place and don't get "activated". Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Flash Phoenix
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:07:00 -
[526] - Quote
No delays on sigs.
Wormhole life has plenty of issues as is. Many aspects need work, such as pos for just one. please work on something that need done.
As a minor point, most of eve requires time, patience, even some work. It gets darn old to keep hearing the PvP crowd crying and whining that its to hard, requires to much time, to much effort, etc. There is no reason they should be able to jump into a wormhole, and insta warp to sites that now require no probing to attack site runners and miners with no effort from the PvP toon. The wormhole dwellers have usally invested effort and time into their wormhole occupation. The least the PvP toons can do is put a little work into attacking a mining ship or a PVE fit site runner.
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Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1289
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:10:00 -
[527] - Quote
Gustava Risalo wrote:
PVE players have adapted as you claim and you get less ganks or pvp because they adapted. So then pvpers make the cry that a mechanic is hampering their chosen play style. Why is it you wish for the PVE players to adapt but the pvpers just get mechanics changed and the game rebalanced?
It's not a matter of less ganks. it's a matter of free intel. We don't want free intel. Most wh pvpers don't want grav sites showing up at 100% either, and that definitely makes it harder to gank. No trolling please |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
178
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:11:00 -
[528] - Quote
Gustava Risalo wrote:Senn Denroth wrote:Gustava Risalo wrote:Senn Denroth wrote:You seem mad you noob. Nobody is immune, and that is what wormhole space should be like. Eg: http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=34504IMO what is should be changed to is 2-3 spawn timer for a K162 on the noob autoscanner. Or instant detection if you have probes out scanning, that way both the farmers are kept somewhat happy and the entities that roam like a wolf in the night are kept happy. Just as wormhole space should be. You're making upwards of 300m/hr so grow some testies. Your ships are never really safe because wormholes space is supposed to be the wild west of EVE, a true sandbox. If you are voicing these concerns purely from a farmers point of view we will come for you, and no amount of probes or noobscanner will save you. Whatever change you make Fozzie, I hope you consider it balanced for both parties like I have suggested above. This way the lazy people lose out, and those that are vigilant and activity playing the game will be kept on their toes. Listen up chucklefuck, I have heard this same kind of bs from many players in the years i have been playing eve. It is always the same. Local too strong can't warp in fast enough. Noobscanner saves them. Oh god they are using probes we can't get a fight. If you want pvp in eve ADAPT. ADAPT AND SURVIVE. Don't ***** to ccp that the game isn't fair. Maybe the 300mi/hour in isk you make hasn't sprouted your ********* yet. Perhaps when you hit 500mil/hour you might see them drop an inch. Until then keep your whiny **** to your private forums. Are you mad? You seem mad? I said upwards of 300m/hr. We do about 600m/hr. We do apart, I'm just trying to warn CCP of making a potential game breaking change because they listened to the voice of noobs like you which are the loudest. The best fairest choices in life are not always the most popular, you might learn this one day. U MAD? HEY YOU SEEM MAD? You sprout a terrible meme bring nothing new to the table and don't even try to refute my argument. At least Gnaw LF took a position. Next time save me the trouble of reading your horrible posting.
I don't consider your psychotic ramblings an argument you nameless pet. |
eGO Wallrat
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:19:00 -
[529] - Quote
So I'm new to the forums but not to EVE and for the last several years I've been living in W-Space. I've learned to be paranoid. I've done some hunting myself and I've been hunted. As I'm reading this it would be a major change to the current WH dynamic IMO. Take the auto scanner away - but don't take away my ability to be vigilant.
BayneNothos wrote:[quote=Erasmus Phoenix]There is balance to be found and that balance is in removing the defenders massive advantage in having the K162 appear straight away in the scan window. The attacker gets NO information immediately, why should the defender.
The attackers can get information right away with the overlay. Ships on scan and one anom? I know where I'm heading. If I had to scan down the anom then the ratters / miners might see my probes before I get there - if they're vigilant.
By masking sigs it simply handicaps one side of equation.
I'm all for taking away the auto overlay and make us rely on our own actions to see what's out there. But it doesn't make sense for me to probe if I can't actually see what's there. |
Leah-Ayrn
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:29:00 -
[530] - Quote
Haven't read through all the thread yet but this was my first thoughts on this-
The old system favored the 'home' guys too much. Keep on D-scan and watch for probes meant the attackers were usually at a disadvantage. You could be caught, but you had a good window to see it coming and gtfo. If you got caught you were just lazy on D-scan.
The new system will favor the attackers too much. Just like the old system did the 'owners'. Lets assume the sig cant be seen for 2 minutes in the new system. 2 minutes is plenty enough time for a roam to D-Scan down what anom you are at and get the attack in motion. By the time the site runner even knows something is happening its too late. He hasn't really done anything wrong on his end. But he has no tools to help defend himself against this*.
I'm not trying to advocate for a carebear approach. But to make the most out of the situation everyone needs to consider both sides of this. Neither side deserves to have an advantage handed to them just because.
*And "bring more friends" is not always the retort to this. Usually all that does is escalate the fight lol. You shouldn't have to rely on 3-4-5 other people to run a site in a C1-2 just to help deter attackers. Bringing friends to SURVIVE an attack is one thing, bringing friends because you can't even see the attack coming is another.
I can't see them keeping the new sig hidden for less than 60 seconds. Anything less would just about defeat the point of it. But anything longer gives a big boost to the attackers too. I'm just in favor of a fair system. You catch me, you win. You mess up, I win. |
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sixfortyk
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:36:00 -
[531] - Quote
No much love for automatic scanny bizniz in UNKNOWN space. |
ROSSLINDEN0
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
227
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:40:00 -
[532] - Quote
Gustava Risalo wrote:Gnaw LF wrote:Gustava Risalo wrote:There is one inherent problem with all of this hurf blurf about Risk vs reward. You gain the ability to roll holes unannounced until you find a nice target you can kill then you have the suprise factor on your side for killing them.
Where is your risk?
You get to pick your targets so you aren't going to take on anything your gang can't handle. You aren't going to roll holes without having the majority of your fleet on standby and have a fairly accurate idea of fleet composition. So where is your risk? You get nothing but the rewards of the kills and the fact that you can make even more isk when you run sites.
Also don't feed me the bs about how you will engange anything or you won't pick a fight you won't win. Thats a load of garbage. Yeah, pvpers never risk their ships by warping into a sleeper site full without full knowledge of their opponent. When you try to kill someone in sleeper site you don't know how many people they have logged off in their system, you don't know how many capital ships they can bring in on a moments notice. Yes, ganks will still happen but to say that pvp oriented players don't have a risk when they initiate a fight is ridiculous. This is amazing logic. Holy crap lets take a moment to appreciate this. You are Verge of Collapse amongst the most well known pvp entities in wormholes. You claim that you risk that some fleet you gank might just have enough people logged off waiting for you to jump them without the slightest hint or warning it would happen to you? Maybe I have spent too much time sizing up my enemy but every time I jump into a wormhole and see hostiles, I check their corp/alliance their killboard, and some limited history before making decisions. Are you telling me that one of the most well known and bigger pvp groups in w-space doesn't do some active intel gathering of someone they might potentially gank before trying to kill them? http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=57587Let me guess that BR was a surprise oh we risked a lot to get a few kills we didn't know what they would log on? Smell that? Yep its bull ****. Oh surprise coming from you. You can have a full amount of intel gathered before you start a fight regardless of log off traps. If you choose not to gather intelligence its your own fault you lose ships. Don't come at me with your weak arguments. What is ridiculous is that ccp is even considering giving any entity any sort of intel advantage from active intel gathering sources just so you can have your gank and call it f pvp. Take your whiny elitist bull**** and shove it straight where the sun don' t shine.
It wasnt our op you ******* spastic, we had an exit near by and nut invited us along for some cap km's |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:44:00 -
[533] - Quote
eGO Wallrat wrote:So I'm new to the forums but not to EVE and for the last several years I've been living in W-Space. I've learned to be paranoid. I've done some hunting myself and I've been hunted. As I'm reading this it would be a major change to the current WH dynamic IMO. Take the auto scanner away - but don't take away my ability to be vigilant. BayneNothos wrote:[quote=Erasmus Phoenix]There is balance to be found and that balance is in removing the defenders massive advantage in having the K162 appear straight away in the scan window. The attacker gets NO information immediately, why should the defender. The attackers can get information right away with the overlay. Ships on scan and one anom? I know where I'm heading. If I had to scan down the anom then the ratters / miners might see my probes before I get there - if they're vigilant. By masking sigs it simply handicaps one side of equation. I'm all for taking away the auto overlay and make us rely on our own actions to see what's out there. But it doesn't make sense for me to probe if I can't actually see what's there.
We're talking about different times here. The defender knows about the incoming K162 at my warp initialisation + however long it takes the discovery scanner to refresh itself/manually be refreshed. This can be as short as a second or as long as however long the auto refresh rate on the discovery scanner window is. The attacker doesn't get any info from the new wh until he's aligned, warped to it, flown up to it, jumped, loaded the new system and clicked dscan. If it's a short warp, he's in a fast boat and he lands on top of the wh that can be a short time, 10-20 seconds. If the WH is the other end of the system, if he's in a fat scan boat like an Armour T3, if the cosmic anomaly is far off the WH entity itself it can be double or even longer than that.
This is why I'm in favour of a short delay (or a proper fix via WH spawning on gridland) it equals up both sides. |
Abs Sciuto
Diesel Corporation Intercom.
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:52:00 -
[534] - Quote
please, don't do this thing. you have killed wh at all when moved asteroid plexes into anomalies.
and this thing will kill everything at all. carebear ships couldn't fight 10 t3 cruisers at all and will de destroyed in any case. if you really want to do something, do it with wh as system. |
Tyrant Scorn
126
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:52:00 -
[535] - Quote
BayneNothos wrote: (or a proper fix via WH spawning on gridland)
I can see this being the only agreeable change, it makes sense. I think people need to be careful when they use the term delay. Some people are thinking of a 5 minute black out period or a 5 minute Probe scan delay, which is completely insane.
I think, if a change has to be made, the spawn of a new WH connection once you arrive on grid, is the only agreeable change CCP should consider. Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
643
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 04:19:00 -
[536] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Just because Eve is different from other MMOs doesn't mean you get to say "You guys have to adapt to the game being how I want it"
There is a balance to be found and making it impossible for the defending party to get information is not that balance.
I am not saying you have to adapt to how I want it, I am saying that the sig spawning when you warp to it gives the PvE crowd an early warning system. Because the time it takes to warp + jump + load grid + cloack + d-scan + warp + drop on someone all the while trying to get the fleet ready to jump in is ridiculous. I have time and time argued for why there should be a delay and instead of providing conclusive counter points all I hear is that "sigs need to be scanned when probes are dropped". However no one is willing to construct a valid argument for why that should be the mechanic and why "it was not broke" before odyssey. Because it was obviously broken. |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
643
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Posted - 2014.03.25 04:23:00 -
[537] - Quote
Gustava Risalo wrote:
Last time I looked at the VoC killboard you all had plenty of kills some from nullsec, some for lowsec and some from w-space. The claim has been made that the instant spawning of a k-162 is hampering the pvp in w-space so terrible that w-space is no longer risky enough to be worth the reward. You seem to be getting plenty of kills for your effort so clearly pvp in w-space is working.
PVE players have adapted as you claim and you get less ganks or pvp because they adapted. So then pvpers make the cry that a mechanic is hampering their chosen play style. Why is it you wish for the PVE players to adapt but the pvpers just get mechanics changed and the game rebalanced?
Look at KB as much as you want, my argument is that defenders get an early warning system, they can POS up and wait to see who opened into them. That is not high risk, high reward PvE. It should be changed and this is a reasonable solution. Simple as that. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1290
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 04:33:00 -
[538] - Quote
ROSSLINDEN0 wrote: It wasnt our op you ******* spastic, we had an exit near by and nut invited us along for some cap km's
But......but.....killmails! No trolling please |
Gustava Risalo
Sons of Sarah Kerrigan
18
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Posted - 2014.03.25 04:52:00 -
[539] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Gustava Risalo wrote:
Last time I looked at the VoC killboard you all had plenty of kills some from nullsec, some for lowsec and some from w-space. The claim has been made that the instant spawning of a k-162 is hampering the pvp in w-space so terrible that w-space is no longer risky enough to be worth the reward. You seem to be getting plenty of kills for your effort so clearly pvp in w-space is working.
PVE players have adapted as you claim and you get less ganks or pvp because they adapted. So then pvpers make the cry that a mechanic is hampering their chosen play style. Why is it you wish for the PVE players to adapt but the pvpers just get mechanics changed and the game rebalanced?
Look at KB as much as you want, my argument is that defenders get an early warning system, they can POS up and wait to see who opened into them. That is not high risk, high reward PvE. It should be changed and this is a reasonable solution. Simple as that.
I agree the current system heavily favors the defenders. However a 2 minute complete lack of notice for a hostile force for being in your wormhole is not reasonable. That tips the favor to the attacker. Do we need the nuetered local that we have now with the k162 showing up on the overlay. Hell no its a terrible design. Should I still be able to spam probes to find a new signatures. Yes.
Personally of all the suggestions posted here landing on grid with the wh spawning the k162 is a fairly valid and reasonable position giving both sides fair footing to either make the gank happen or safe up. |
Baby Dady
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
42
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Posted - 2014.03.25 04:59:00 -
[540] - Quote
Hello,
My name is Baby Dady, I am a bad person, I am bad at EVE.
I gank people in Wormholes. That is my sole activity in this game. I fly solo in c1-c4 wormholes blowing up PI Haulers, Site Runners, and Miners. All I do is gank people doing PVE in Wormhole space. Since the change proposed in the OP falls directly into what I do, I will contribute to the discussion.
Initially this looks like a great idea, but upon further deep thought this has to be the worst idea since GÇÿwormhole stabilizersGÇÖ. This will drive all small groups from doing PVE in Wormhole space entirely. CCP just announced the best incentive for new small groups to move into w-space that I have heard recently, with the ore compression module thingy. This will completely offset that and de-incentivize any small new group from wanting to go into W-space entirely.
I do not have the perspective to comment on how this would impact C5/C6 Capital Escalation bears or their hunters, but it would turn low class systems into barren deserts of endless empty systems.
This change would give me (the bad person who is bad at eve and only shoots defenseless ships) a significant advantage.
I whole heartedly agree that there are issues that need to be addressed. But this change alone is not the solution. There are a few good ideas already out there such as duel statics in C4GÇÖs, fixing Black Holes, and fixing POSGÇÖs. I would suggest we start there.
Praise BOB!
BD
Ps. glad to see devs looking at w-space, just donGÇÖt eff it up! |
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