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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3192
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:38:00 -
[211] - Quote
Ok lets try this a different way;
Im chasing Salvos through NPC null
I know there is a gatecamp that he has just passed through and I cant follow in my current ship
There's an inty on sale in this system but gasp its minmatar and I cant fly those because I havent trained Min Frig 5
Oh wait *BAM* drops $120 in PLEX into PLEX4SP
In 30 secs I learn it and after him again *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:38:00 -
[212] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:The proof is that he couldnt be wrong if THIS many people wnat to argue with him!
Argumentum ad publicum, and false implication as if I had ever stated the above.
Shame you won't voice comm. You could have recorded it and had me banned :D It is though, sincerely, my experience that talking helps resolve many written and literal misunderstandings. I know, for a FACT, that you are misreading what I have said. Possibly, I am yours as well. But as long as either of us insists in our misreading, there can be no way forward. ------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:40:00 -
[213] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:suggestion: ccp sends thugs to your house to mug you. you pay a subcription premium for this service What? it's just a new plex sink, for ccp to make more money i think we should support ccp
Well, go ahead and pay CCP to send thugs to your own or your mom's house then, if that's what you believe and think.
I think you are taking your trolling a little too far here. ------------ |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2840
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:40:00 -
[214] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: Kneejerk reactionists who haven't thought it through.
Shame really. EVE was supposed to have an intelligent community. kneejerk reactions with reasoning explained in full |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:41:00 -
[215] - Quote
Did you rage when alt-training on the same account was made possible? ------------ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20524
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:42:00 -
[216] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Did you rage when alt-training on the same account was made possible? Learn to read.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:43:00 -
[217] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: Kneejerk reactionists who haven't thought it through.
Shame really. EVE was supposed to have an intelligent community. kneejerk reactions with reasoning explained in full
Nope. No rational reasoning there.
Frankly this discussion reminds me of trying to convince a religious person that dinosaur bones weren't magically put there by some supernatural power. ------------ |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5747
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:44:00 -
[218] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: Kneejerk reactionists who haven't thought it through.
Shame really. EVE was supposed to have an intelligent community.
This is just projection.
What you are suggesting and defending here is basically the end of EVe as we know it and the beginning of an EVE that starts down the path that most unsuccessful/dead MMOs followed: pay to win. EVE has survived this long because (among other things) it doesn't give players those comfy "we as a game company care about you" short cuts that other games do.
I will never understand this drive you and folks like you have to turn EVE away from it's proven and successful path towards a way of doing things that has proven only that it fails. It doesn't make sense, it's almost as if you want to see EVE and CCP go under.
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Salvos Rhoska
1019
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:45:00 -
[219] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Did you rage when alt-training on the same account was made possible? Learn to read.
*looks at text* *reads it* It says "Learn to read".
Is that an answer to my question? Nope.
Everytime you do this Tippia, this categorical inability or refusal to answer simple and direct questions, I laugh, hard. And the funniest thing about it? Is you actually have the audacity to expect others to answer your questions, when you categorically are incapable or unwilling to do the same in reciprocation. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3192
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:45:00 -
[220] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:The proof is that he couldnt be wrong if THIS many people wnat to argue with him! Argumentum ad publicum, and false implication as if I had ever stated the above. Its a joke, son Eye Ball Keep your "Eye" on the "Ball"? Geddit? I say, do you geddit?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shame you won't voice comm. You could have recorded it and had me banned :D. Why? Would you have done something to try to make me wreck my stuff and call you a ******? Apparently thats how you get banned these days
Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is though, sincerely, my experience that talking helps resolve many written and literal misunderstandings.I know, for a FACT, that you are misreading what I have said. Possibly, I am yours as well. But as long as either of us insists in our misreading, there can be no way forward.
Written and literal mean the same thing *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
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Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2841
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:45:00 -
[221] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Frankly this discussion reminds me of trying to convince a religious person that dinosaur bones weren't magically put there by some supernatural power. go on |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:46:00 -
[222] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:False slippery slope argument
If CCP had thought like you did, they would have stopped development the very day EVE went live. Afterall, everything since has just been a slippery slope away from that original product. ------------ |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5747
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:48:00 -
[223] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Ok lets try this a different way;
Im chasing Salvos through NPC null
I know there is a gatecamp that he has just passed through and I cant follow in my current ship
There's an inty on sale in this system but gasp its minmatar and I cant fly those because I havent trained Min Frig 5
Oh wait *BAM* drops $120 in PLEX into PLEX4SP
In 30 secs I learn it and after him again
lol, I'd almost pay a plex to see that.
Basically what you're dealing with is someone who is so dishonest that they believe their own lies lol. No amount of reason is going to break through that wall.
So much so that these types won't understand that what they think is such a great idea for new players (notice the OP stating the the "new player-veteran gap" is a motivation for this idea) is actually only a great idea for older players who (unlike new players) can throw in game isk generated PLEXes at their problems. Malcanis' law strikes again. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3192
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:48:00 -
[224] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tippia wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Did you rage when alt-training on the same account was made possible? Learn to read. *looks at text* *reads it* It says "Learn to read". Is that an answer to my question? Nope. Everytime you do this Tippia, this categorical inability or refusal to answer simple and direct questions, I laugh, hard. And the funniest thing about it? Is you actually have the audacity to expect others to answer your questions, when you categorically are incapable or unwilling to do the same in reciprocation.
she did answer your question. You really didnt bother reading her answer, hence her asking you agian to L2R
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Did you complain like this when the "game mechanic" of only being able to train one character per account, was changed?
Tippia wrote: Since the mechanics for acquiring SP on your character didn't change, no. All characters are still subject to the same rules and the same mechanics that determine the acquisition speed. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:48:00 -
[225] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Written and literal mean the same thing I know.
I made the distinction for your benefit, to include that you are not only misunderstanding what I have written, but you are also misunderstanding its "literal" meaning. ------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:50:00 -
[226] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:she did answer your question. You really didnt bother reading her answer, hence her asking you agian to L2R
Where. I must have overlooked it.
She has an annoying and terrible tendency to bury her answers in a context or under a quotation to which they do not apply.
If I ask a direct and simple question, I expect a direct and simple answer. I provide the same myself, in reciprocation. ------------ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20525
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:53:00 -
[227] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Nope. No rational reasoning there.
Frankly this discussion reminds me of trying to convince a religious person that dinosaur bones weren't magically put there by some supernatural power. You mean in the sense that you just make baseless assertions without being able to offer more in the way of support than GÇ£because I believe soGÇ¥, and without being able to account for the inherent contradictions between your claims and reality, and without being able to account for the repercussions of your claims, and even a pretty silly appeal to GÇ£well, you can believe what you wantGÇ¥ reconciliation even though your part is still purely faith-based and unproven?
Yes, your argumentative style is very religion-like.
Quote:Is that an answer to my question? Nope. Yes it is. It tells you to go back and actually read the answer rather than skip over it like you always do. Just because you don't want to acknowledge an answer that was given long ago doesn't mean I refuse to answer it. I just refuse to repeat it to indulge your dishonesty.
So: learn to read. Once you've read my answer, please respond to it. The answer will not change just because you keep ignoring it, like you're hoping it will.
Quote:If CCP had thought like you did, they would have stopped development the very day EVE went live. No. If they did what he suggested, it would have arrived to where they are today, perhaps with a bit fewer mistakes along the road. What they certainly wouldn't do is follow your suggestion of implementing things that are unnecessary, self-defeating, and with no reasoning behind it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5747
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:54:00 -
[228] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:False slippery slope argument If CCP had thought like you did, they would have stopped development the very day EVE went live. Afterall, everything since has just been a slippery slope away from that original product.
See what I mean by dishonesty? This guy is so tied to this bad idea that he needs to find a way to dismiss all dissent?
I'm not making a slippery slope argument. A slippery slope argument would be : 'what Salvos wants would lead to pay to win'. That's not slippery slope, what I'm saying is '[b]you done fell off the cliff already/b] so screw a slope lol.
No one has said EVE should not progress, we're saying that what you believe would be a good thing would actually be bad and only good progress should be pursued.
'Stupid' (such as adding pay to win to a game that doesn't need it and that would die from it) is not progress. |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:54:00 -
[229] - Quote
Tippia, want to discuss it in voice?
Do you have the balls? ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3192
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:55:00 -
[230] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:she did answer your question. You really didnt bother reading her answer, hence her asking you agian to L2R Where. I must have overlooked it.
I quoted it for you. In the post that you replied to.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Written and literal mean the same thing I know. I made the distinction for your benefit, to include that you are not only misunderstanding what I have written, but you are also misunderstanding its "literal" meaning.
That is the single WORST, most appalling attempt to backpedal I have ever seen.
Congratulations. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20525
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:55:00 -
[231] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Where. I must have overlooked it. Wow. Twice in the same post. Learn to read, ffs!
Quote:She has an annoying and terrible tendency to bury her answers in a context or under a quotation to which they do not apply. You mean GÇ£in the context of directly replying to a section where you question is being quoted in fullGÇ¥? Yes, I do that a lot, because that's where the answer applies.
Quote:If I ask a direct and simple question, I expect a direct and simple answer. I provide the same myself, in reciprocation. GǪaside from your tendency to try to avoid answering simple questions as much as you can, in or out of context, and instead just stonewalling the discussion because you know that if you did provide an answer, it would completely sink the rhetoric point you were trying to make.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
1020
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:57:00 -
[232] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:That is the single WORST, most appalling attempt to backpedal I have ever seen.
Congratulations.
Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"? I even paused at that point when I was writing the post, and decided DELIBERATELY to include the "literal" part so that my statement would also carry the definitions of that word, additionally to "written".
You DO know that they are not the same word, right? And that their definitions carry nuances and specifics unique to each? ------------ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20527
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:58:00 -
[233] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"? Yes. Why would you be any more aware of that than you are of anything else? Consistency of this kind is very appealing to the mind. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
1020
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:59:00 -
[234] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"? Yes. Why would you be any more aware of that than you are of anything else?
What? Thats like saying "I saw an apple fall from that tree, therefore there must be no more apples left in that tree". I don't even.
Tippia circular logic again.
Will you take me up on my invitation to voice? You can freely record it and distribute it as you wish. ------------ |
Organic Lager
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
29
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:00:00 -
[235] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Organic Lager wrote:The second you introduce paying usd for anything non cosmetic in game, you are allowing pay-to-win. And that's the beauty of the PLEX system: it circumvents that problem by only making it an exchange of time. At no point do you get anything in-game that can't be had without cash GÇö no accelerated gameplay, no skipping of mechanics, no special rules, no GÇ£winGÇ¥ being obtained, nothing. Quote:The reason i don't see anything game breaking is because there isn't anything game breaking. So you don't consider the fact that normal game mechanics no longer apply to you as something game-breaking? If I suddenly could spawn ISK out of thin air rather than have to interact with NPCs in long-winded ways, that would not break the game? If I suddenly could always warp at will no matter what, that would not break the game? If I suddenly no longer took damage from anything, that would not break the game? Oh, and suddenly making the rules that regulate how characters progress over time different for those who pay for it would indeed instantly devalue the time spent on building every character in the game. Quote:I see your point of creating sp for usd but does that really matter? Yes. It matters because all forms of skipping game mechanics are inherently bad for the game GÇö there's a reason why it is normally strictly prohibited in games to the point of having companies bar you from all their games forever. Quote:Still don't see how it benefits old over new players, both would receive the same rate gains. Because of the reasons I listed: the new players will GÇö with perfect knowledge and equal access to support mechanics such as ISK and attributes and overall investment in the game (none of which they will have, due to being new) GÇö only at best maintain a status quo. For every little detail in which a new players deviates from that perfect scenario, old players will gain an advantage because they can leverage their knowledge, wallets, support structures, etc. So at best, the GÇ£benefitGÇ¥ a new player gets is that they're exactly where they would be without this idea, making it pointless; at worst, the only people who'd benefit are old players, which would reverse the intended purpose of the idea.
I see we are at an impasse
1) if i trade real life dollars for in game items i wouldn't otherwise have, how is this not paying to win regardless of where the item came from. If i buy diablo 2 items off a third party web site is this not paying to win? The only way plex would make any difference is if game time it granted wasn't paid for with usd. Just because you add an extra step does not change the fact it's an exchange of usd for an in game item.
2) Sp is generated by 2 things time + usd all we are asking for is to have the time reduced and the usd increased, the ratio still stays the same. 4 + 1 = 5 the same way 2 + 3 = 5. We aren't adding or taking anything away just asking for a different distribution
3) Wrong sp are static meaning a vet can only go so far in one field. This would allow a new player to close the gap in a particular field much quicker. While still allowing the vet to branch out into a new field quicker, offering different benefits to both without hindering either . As far as personal bank balances go this is no more "cheating" then buying plex to sell for isk and 100% optional like the aforementioned plex for isk.
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3195
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:00:00 -
[236] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:That is the single WORST, most appalling attempt to backpedal I have ever seen.
Congratulations. Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"? I even paused at that point when I was writing the post, and decided DELIBERATELY to include the "literal" part so that my statement would also carry the definitions of that word, additionally to "written". You DO know that they are not the same word, right? And that their definitions carry nuances and specifics unique to each?
You are now officially considered both Troll and KOS target by myself, my corp and soon my Alliance
This is not a threat
This is not something that bothers me if you care about it or not
This is a fact
Be seeing you *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2842
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:01:00 -
[237] - Quote
can we talk about the definition of 'circular logic' next, please |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
564
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:02:00 -
[238] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tippia wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Those are fail reasons, and not "problems" whatsoever. How so? Please, are you joking? You genuinely can't grasp that if someone expends RL money or PLEX for accelerated SP, then he is spending MORE than someone who is skilling conventionally? It doesn't "break" any mechanic. Do you not even know what "mechanic" means, in terms of game design? Apparently you don't. Makes no difference to you, or me, whatsoever, if some third guy spends an additional PLEX or dollars per month for some % of accelerated training. No difference AT ALL. It makes no difference to anyone else in the game, what rate someone who spends money or PLEX on an accelerated rate, does. If you don't want to buy it, then don't. You can continue skilling at the same rate you always have. If some people expend an additional PLEX per month for an accelerated rate, or additional currency in addition to gametime, so what? Doesn't cause a problem in Bazaar either, because any character that is "grown" for sale through an accelerated SP rate, also incurs more costs in its production. So it will never be cheaper than a vanilla grown toon that takes longer. This is really elementary stuff that anyone with a modicum of objective perspective and capacity to fathom a simple abstract model and its repercussions, can easily comprehend.
LOL..the reason Tip cannot agree is because that would remove his reason to argue.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20527
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:02:00 -
[239] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:What? You have a long history of having a hard time understanding the differences (or lack thereof) between things. Why would your knowledge of the words GÇ£literalGÇ¥ and GÇ£writtenGÇ¥ be any different.
Quote:Tippia circular logic again. How so? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
564
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:03:00 -
[240] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:That is the single WORST, most appalling attempt to backpedal I have ever seen.
Congratulations. Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"? I even paused at that point when I was writing the post, and decided DELIBERATELY to include the "literal" part so that my statement would also carry the definitions of that word, additionally to "written". You DO know that they are not the same word, right? And that their definitions carry nuances and specifics unique to each? You are now officially considered both Troll and KOS target by myself, my corp and soon my Alliance This is not a threat This is not something that bothers me if you care about it or not This is a fact Be seeing you Ohhh noooos.....someone is getting beat up after school in the Piggly Wiggly parking lot. |
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