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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
450
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:55:00 -
[451] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Ludacrys wrote:To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.
They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel They are allowing for people to spend money on teams that give up to 5% ME, why would i spend ISK on something everyone can use? the answer is you wont unless you also control the system (0.0, WH, etc) Outposts on top of that have another 5% ME
Not to mention the changes to ore and mineral compression
CCP wants people in 0.0 but i think the problem is the blobbing system that always benefits the people with power, CCP really needs to boost asymmetrical warfare or people will never go to 0.0 unless they are renters or pets how in the blazes is doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel, something highsec doesn't use, a highsec nerf and a nullsec boost
A 50% (not doubled) increase in fuel requirements, will surely cripple the wallets of the null sec fat cats and put them in the bread lines. Also, there are no other changes taking place in the summer expansion. Only fuel requirement changes.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
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Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
34
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:57:00 -
[452] - Quote
Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? You would have to outbid everyone else, which, I'm sure, may become quite expensive quickly. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
443
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:58:00 -
[453] - Quote
Cultural Enrichment wrote:Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? You would have to outbid everyone else, which, I'm sure, may become quite expensive quickly.
Only on the few top teams and then exploit the hell out of the advantage for that month with preplanned job runs
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Shinya Shazih
11
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:04:00 -
[454] - Quote
Lost Hamster wrote:You know what I have liked in the industry? It's calculable. You give X in, you get Y out. With the recent plans to change the industry, it will be like a big black box. You put the X and some Z, and hopefully you get Y back. But your prices will fluctuate like hell. Good that my account expires in 5 day and 5 hours.. not sure if I want to play this industry anymore. See you at Star Citizen.
+1
I think I'll just wing it, calculate the most expensive way to produce, and price accordingly ... and stop producting anything ....
Mashiekh of Tleilax - Director of Industry-á |
Shinya Shazih
11
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:08:00 -
[455] - Quote
Cultural Enrichment wrote:Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? You would have to outbid everyone else, which, I'm sure, may become quite expensive quickly.
I don't mind driving up auction prices, there will be a message in the end of the auction telling me who I have been griefing >:) Mashiekh of Tleilax - Director of Industry-á |
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
122
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:08:00 -
[456] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:I like the idea of combining Master of Orion II gameplay elements with Eve Online. One day we will have actual ingame ship crew that have experience levels and tweak small stats like Warp Drive Speed, or Signature Size, etc
and it will cost one plex for each crew member, they will die in fire when the ship explode? WTS BPO : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=307169 |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7198
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:10:00 -
[457] - Quote
Markku Laaksonen wrote:A 50% (not doubled) increase in fuel requirements, will surely cripple the wallets of the null sec fat cats and put them in the bread lines. Also, there are no other changes taking place in the summer expansion. Only fuel requirement changes. go back and reread the post i quoted numbnuts Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
304
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:17:00 -
[458] - Quote
Nevermind. |
Dracnys
66
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:25:00 -
[459] - Quote
The calculation for an industrialist will be like this:
+ Value of team bonus (materials saved, or faster production) - Extra salary cost =Benefit from hiring team
if the first two make a positive number it will likely be rather small. That's for one job, so it gets multiplied with more jobs. So controlling more jobs (as an individual with alts, or as a corp or alliance) makes it more worth it to bid on a team.
So we have Benefit * jobs# - cost of winning auction
Very likely not worth it for individuals, unless they're using a dozen alts producing the same thing. The individual industrialist will also invite more people to his production system (=higher cost) and possibly make it easier for competitors to produce (who are freeriding and didn't pay bids).
If a highsec industry corp wins an auction for a juicy team they can be sure that many other industrialists will come to their system and make it more expensive to produce, also inviting competition.
Nullsec alliances will be able to make it work. They have lots of pooled ISK from their activities and they can control who can produce in their system and station.
Possible EVE-like solution: Entity that posed a bid can increase the extra salary cost by a percentage and effectively tax people for using the teams he acquired for the system. With multiple bidders the tax would be the weighted average (by % of winning bid made) of the tax rates set by each bidder and every bidder would receive a cut of the tax income according to his weight.
May be a very interesting game for the space-rich. With this system bidders have to consider: how much does it cost to win the team, what is the expected tax income and what is the best tax rate (too high and nobody will use the team).
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SpaceSaft
Sub Par. The East India Co.
73
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:27:00 -
[460] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: The cost scaling acts as a push - it encourages people to spread out. The teams encourage you to operate where the good teams are, so they act as a pull. Together it creates a dynamic landscape that changes over time. This was the goal. What it also does is reduce the predictability of the system. This is also intended.
Push and pull shake up the market leading to more volatility in prices, movement of assets which leads to more content for gankers, movers and industry guys.
What I don't understand is why the players have to create the pull? I mean If it's a star map -> production cost mapping, there is a natural minimum for people to go to. As such I don't really see what purpose the teams are supposed to fulfil? Paying for other people to get a bonus seems like a really weird idea not sure how this will play out. Putting them in random locations seems a better solution for this to me.
What I am going to say though is that this whole update is still missing:
-a multiplayer component ( Industry could be as well be a randomly generated single player game ) -a fix for the mess that is current POS access rights -contracting from and to POCOs -as far as I can see a solution to the problem of 1 hour long invention jobs being a pain to install -an overview over complex production chains involving multiple steps -Dust Industry integration -Adjustment of sales tax the same way production cost changes but scaled with trade volume
and that you're not taking the time to fully develop this feature before release. AGAIN
Push the release of "teams" back entirely until you can release it for science and industry. Everything else is BS and you know it. Noone wants it piecemeal. Noone.
How many features will you tackle and leave the important bits out of with the explanation "Oooooh nonono. That's part of the corp system, we didn't touch that and officially don't intend to."?
Ok rethoric questions are unfair.
That's all I have to say for now so I'll stop now.
I don't even know anymore what to think about CCP... |
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Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:32:00 -
[461] - Quote
Lost Hamster wrote:Seriously... Dear Devs, what have you smoked recently? I know that some of you can not handle Chilli You know what I have liked in the industry? It's calculable. You give X in, you get Y out. With the recent plans to change the industry, it will be like a big black box. You put the X and some Z, and hopefully you get Y back. But your prices will fluctuate like hell. Good that my account expires in 5 day and 5 hours.. not sure if I want to play this industry anymore. See you at Star Citizen.
Yeah, how's that Star Citizen industry expansion coming along? WTF. SC. Enjoy your ship and hangar. Have they implemented ship spinning yet?
You had me at the level of increased complication and uncertainty, some of it just to be complicated. But then you went full popsicle with the Star Citizen horseshite. C'mon man. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2864
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:34:00 -
[462] - Quote
Cultural Enrichment wrote:Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? You would have to outbid everyone else, which, I'm sure, may become quite expensive quickly.
Top teams will soon be going for hundreds of millions in an auction. Imagine how many T2 Battleships or Jump Freighters they can pump out out in 1 month in a single null sec station (edit, should have said POS, since they will be getting some bonus as well, and a POS in deep null is completely safe), maxed out in upgrades, but restricted to a small elite team of manufacturers, to keep slot costs at a fixed known rate.
Individuals / small high sec indy corps will be completely shut out of the process for top tier teams. But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force The Kadeshi
304
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:37:00 -
[463] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Riela Tanal wrote:So why are the teams NPCs instead of composed of players? Seems more like focusing more on solo work then a combined effort for industrial operations. I was envisioning more of the team aspect function in industry but I suppose I can wait and see. Cooperative gameplay in industry requires complete rewrite of the corp role system. Hopefully that will happen soon (you didn't read this here).
im so very glad you added this.
i find these changes interesting but i was left with the feeling that as a player there was little benefit to any coordinated team play. When I first saw there would be a dev blog on team play I had envisaged that there would be skills and benefits to grouping together on a corp or alliance level. Where each individual brings some unique characteristic that is combined with other industrialists. New industrial implants that wouuld work better when grouped with other players.
this is a first start, and although at first seeming a bit complex, i did not start eve because it was easy. In fact the appeal to me has always been the dynamic and complex industrial side. I look forward to testing this out on SiSi.
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Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:38:00 -
[464] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Cultural Enrichment wrote:Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? You would have to outbid everyone else, which, I'm sure, may become quite expensive quickly. Top teams will soon be going for hundreds of millions in an auction. Imagine how many T2 Battleships or Jump Freighters they can pump out out in 1 month in a single null sec station (edit, should have said POS, since they will be getting some bonus as well, and a POS in deep null is completely safe), maxed out in upgrades, but restricted to a small elite team of manufacturers, to keep slot costs at a fixed known rate. Individuals / small high sec indy corps will be completely shut out of the process for top tier teams. But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
Oh man, he accused EVE devs of favoritism. *** EULA Alert ***
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Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
127
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:46:00 -
[465] - Quote
I'm looking forward to a corp getting bored and dropping a trillion isk to move all teams into their wormhole. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7200
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:51:00 -
[466] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
if we tattoed it on their foreheads they wouldn't be able to see it, now would they Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
443
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Posted - 2014.04.30 20:53:00 -
[467] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
if we tattoed it on their foreheads they wouldn't be able to see it, now would they
Well you could do it backwards so they can read it in the mirror ... but you're goons so you would do it forwards...probably slightly jumbled...in chinese... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
443
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:00:00 -
[468] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Cultural Enrichment wrote:Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? You would have to outbid everyone else, which, I'm sure, may become quite expensive quickly. Top teams will soon be going for hundreds of millions in an auction. Imagine how many T2 Battleships or Jump Freighters they can pump out out in 1 month in a single null sec station (edit, should have said POS, since they will be getting some bonus as well, and a POS in deep null is completely safe), maxed out in upgrades, but restricted to a small elite team of manufacturers, to keep slot costs at a fixed known rate. Individuals / small high sec indy corps will be completely shut out of the process for top tier teams. But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
Again the complained about fact of only a few (relatively) outposts in null works in the favour of those in null. They only need to guarantee outbidding on the best teams to fill the outposts for the pre-planned runs and they are automatically guaranteed to outproduce the opposition on whichever item they build since no-one else can compete with the remaining teams. Compound that with the 20% refining boost , outpost me boost and anything else I missed and this is looking good for null production.
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
450
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:00:00 -
[469] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Weaselior wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
if we tattoed it on their foreheads they wouldn't be able to see it, now would they Well you could do it backwards so they can read it in the mirror ... but you're goons so you would do it forwards...probably slightly jumbled...in chinese... its there to remind each other who their masters are, and who is owned in full. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
443
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:05:00 -
[470] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Weaselior wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
if we tattoed it on their foreheads they wouldn't be able to see it, now would they Well you could do it backwards so they can read it in the mirror ... but you're goons so you would do it forwards...probably slightly jumbled...in chinese... its there to remind each other who their masters are, and who is owned in full.
I just need a name badge to remind me of the spelling...
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1227
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:09:00 -
[471] - Quote
I have removed some posts that replied to edited out parts of the posts the where quoting. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
16
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:11:00 -
[472] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Top teams will soon be going for hundreds of millions in an auction. Imagine how many T2 Battleships or Jump Freighters they can pump out out in 1 month in a single null sec station (edit, should have said POS, since they will be getting some bonus as well, and a POS in deep null is completely safe), maxed out in upgrades, but restricted to a small elite team of manufacturers, to keep slot costs at a fixed known rate.
Individuals / small high sec indy corps will be completely shut out of the process for top tier teams. But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
Again the complained about fact of only a few (relatively) outposts in null works in the favour of those in null. They only need to guarantee outbidding on the best teams to fill the outposts for the pre-planned runs and they are automatically guaranteed to outproduce the opposition on whichever item they build since no-one else can compete with the remaining teams. Compound that with the 20% refining boost , outpost me boost and anything else I missed and this is looking good for null production.
[/quote]
I guess logistics is free, right? The 50% increase in jump fuel consumption doesn't kinda hurt nullsec producers just a little? Maybe? You think any real nullsec producer is going to be building battleships to sell in empire? I think you're pretty safe there. Carry on. |
Lunaleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises StarFleet.
33
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:17:00 -
[473] - Quote
Disapointed that teams are not a collaborative manufacturing process such as "corp leader installs titan job, each corp member build x parts until job is comple"
Interesting system nonetheless and sounds worthwhile.
Please rename to "contractor teams" as this more accurately describes the system.
And I agree that players should control the seeding of teams, having a new profession based on training teams (and eventually training ship crews as well) sounds so awesome. |
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
34
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:20:00 -
[474] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Cultural Enrichment wrote:Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? You would have to outbid everyone else, which, I'm sure, may become quite expensive quickly. Top teams will soon be going for hundreds of millions in an auction. Imagine how many T2 Battleships or Jump Freighters they can pump out out in 1 month in a single null sec station (edit, should have said POS, since they will be getting some bonus as well, and a POS in deep null is completely safe), maxed out in upgrades, but restricted to a small elite team of manufacturers, to keep slot costs at a fixed known rate. Individuals / small high sec indy corps will be completely shut out of the process for top tier teams. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. First, top team (XL ship/titan specialization) will go for billions.
Second, any "small but elite" group of industrialists in nullsec will be bidding against the combined weight of "small but elite" highsec industrialists groups, to which adds every other random player.
What a lot of people dont seem to realize is the shift from planning (finding your productio niche and feeding it week after week) to decision-making. You are leaving a system involving (rather simple) optimisation problems to a system focusing on (complex by nature) competitive cooperation problems. If this doesnt makes you feel good about all the idiots you'll be able to **** over, you're an idiot yourself.
edit: P.S: this change is VERY related to teamwork in industry, as a coordinated effort will ensure a larger rate of bid-winning while sharing the costs. If you were hoping on some sort of forced-multi-player producing, you're underestimating how easy that would get gamed by multi-accounts producers. |
ElectronHerd Askulf
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
3
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:26:00 -
[475] - Quote
Cultural Enrichment wrote: edit: P.S: this change is VERY related to teamwork in industry, as a coordinated effort will ensure a larger rate of bid-winning while sharing the costs. If you were hoping on some sort of forced-multi-player producing, you're underestimating how easy that would get gamed by multi-accounts producers.
I think a lot of people were basically looking for the game to help them manage their alts.
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Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:26:00 -
[476] - Quote
Cultural Enrichment wrote: What a lot of people dont seem to realize is the shift from planning (finding your productio niche and feeding it week after week) to decision-making. You are leaving a system involving (rather simple) optimisation problems to a system focusing on (complex by nature) competitive cooperation problems. If this doesnt makes you feel good about all the idiots you'll be able to **** over, you're an idiot yourself.
edit: P.S: this change is VERY related to teamwork in industry, as a coordinated effort will ensure a larger rate of bid-winning while sharing the costs. If you were hoping on some sort of forced-multi-player producing, you're underestimating how easy that would get gamed by multi-accounts producers.
Bravo sir. Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privalage.-á |
Adunh Slavy
1371
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:29:00 -
[477] - Quote
350125GO wrote: This change is very bad for the small industrialist/small corps, and especially bad for new players that may be interested in industry.
Maybe not. Small corps and solo players tend to be rather nimble. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
450
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:30:00 -
[478] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:350125GO wrote: This change is very bad for the small industrialist/small corps, and especially bad for new players that may be interested in industry. Maybe not. Small corps and solo players tend to be rather nimble.
at walking away fromt he game Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5617
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:41:00 -
[479] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:350125GO wrote: This change is very bad for the small industrialist/small corps, and especially bad for new players that may be interested in industry. Maybe not. Small corps and solo players tend to be rather nimble. at walking away fromt he game ... and yet the player base continues to grow, year after year... To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
655
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:41:00 -
[480] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Lilliana Stelles wrote:Invention details PLEASE. Does the ME bonus apply to invention jobs? Does it reduce datacores required or does it boost the ME output of the copy? Invention teams are coming later in a point release, so we haven't nailed down how they will work. They might work similar (or even replace) decryptors.
Quoted for posterity. Teams do for manufacturing exactly what decryptors do for invention.
On another note, I have to agree with those saying that this is making industry more complex. Whether this is good or bad is a matter of individual opinion.
Personally, I think its a PITA, and will require an entirely new UI aspect for the bidding process. I'm certainly not going to quit over it, and I sure as Hell won't be chasing teams across New Eden. I will simply use the best possible team available and I will likely never bid on them.
The fact that all bids within a solar system are pooled together means that the systems with the most successful manufacturers will always get the best teams. Whether that system happens to be Jita, Nonni, VFK, or some random system remains to be seen.
Since all players can see where those teams are operating, it will eventually come out where the best teams are operating (can you say EveMaps?) and some players will move there to take advantage of those excellent teams. But that will increase congestion, raising the installation fees of jobs. Griefers and suicide gankers will also use this information to find targets. Perhaps next year Burn Jita won't actually be in Jita.
I'm looking forward to see how the dynamics of this new system play out.
GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
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