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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |
Vivi Udan
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
11
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:30:00 -
[421] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:The next in our line of Industry-focused dev blogs for the summer release takes a look at Industry Work Teams. These teams will become important parts of the new system, determining how efficient your industry works...
I assumed "Team Up" meant 'hey players, you should work together, especially because this is an MMO.'
I was wrong.
I'm very confused how adding an extra algorithm to industry tasks = "team work" You had a chance to increase player interaction, to increase the benefits of player interaction, to decrease the huge lack of an EVE-DUST connection, and you thought this was good enough?
I am so confused.
I wonder what the CSM said would happen, but we'll never know because CCP NDA's anything that comes within 1 AU of the CSM. The Mittani of House GoonWaffe,-áFirst of His name, King of the Goons and VFK,-áMaster of griefing,-áLord of the CFC, Warden of the West,-áand Protector of Deklein. |
Shinya Shazih
9
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:34:00 -
[422] - Quote
For a while I was hoping Teams would mean Player Teams.
All these changes do nothing for Co+¦peration within corporations, they just focus on solo play.
Wasn't this a Massive Multi Player Game?
For the past few years in Eve I have never hired NPC's to do stuff for me. I always hired players.... Mashiekh of Tleilax - Director of Industry-á |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
81
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:34:00 -
[423] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote: or it can be like PLEX: just because it's in the game doesn't mean you can afford it or have some unalienable human right to access.
As one of the few people left who won the T2 BPOs they produce with in the original lottery, I'm well aware of privilege, undue or not. We should avoid creating more systems that are too easy for those with wealth and power to wall off and claim as their own at the expense of others trying to start out or break in.
Not much point implementing a new element to a manufacturing system if it's out of the reach of the majority of manufacturers, after all. |
Ludacrys
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:37:00 -
[424] - Quote
To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.
They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel They are allowing for people to spend money on teams that give up to 5% ME, why would i spend ISK on something everyone can use? the answer is you wont unless you also control the system (0.0, WH, etc) Outposts on top of that have another 5% ME
Not to mention the changes to ore and mineral compression
CCP wants people in 0.0 but i think the problem is the blobbing system that always benefits the people with power, CCP really needs to boost asymmetrical warfare or people will never go to 0.0 unless they are renters or pets |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7197
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:46:00 -
[425] - Quote
Ludacrys wrote:To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.
They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel They are allowing for people to spend money on teams that give up to 5% ME, why would i spend ISK on something everyone can use? the answer is you wont unless you also control the system (0.0, WH, etc) Outposts on top of that have another 5% ME
Not to mention the changes to ore and mineral compression
CCP wants people in 0.0 but i think the problem is the blobbing system that always benefits the people with power, CCP really needs to boost asymmetrical warfare or people will never go to 0.0 unless they are renters or pets how in the blazes is doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel, something highsec doesn't use, a highsec nerf and a nullsec boost Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:51:00 -
[426] - Quote
As head of pubbie management, Weaselior, I was rather hoping you would be the one able to translate that for me. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:54:00 -
[427] - Quote
Ludacrys wrote:To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.
They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel They are allowing for people to spend money on teams that give up to 5% ME, why would i spend ISK on something everyone can use? the answer is you wont unless you also control the system (0.0, WH, etc) Outposts on top of that have another 5% ME
Not to mention the changes to ore and mineral compression
CCP wants people in 0.0 but i think the problem is the blobbing system that always benefits the people with power, CCP really needs to boost asymmetrical warfare or people will never go to 0.0 unless they are renters or pets
high sec nerf, nullsec boost? Let's see here...
50% increase in the consumption of jump fuel? Check - hurts nullsec more since the need to jump back and forth is more.
Teams that require mass numbers of players to bid in a combined way to attract teams to a single system? Check - bigger population in hisec allowing for more people to combine their bids.
Ore and minerals? Check: most construction ores/mins come from hisec
Seems pretty biased towards nullsec to me. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
217
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:59:00 -
[428] - Quote
Two Words: Very Confusing.
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
304
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:01:00 -
[429] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:(The end of auction message) lists the systems with the highest bid pools. When an auction ends, a notification is sent to those who made bids (both winners and losers), which includes a list of top contributing players to the system pool. Laendra wrote:but not a full list of winning bidders? CCP SoniClover wrote:Currently, it only lists top 5, to keep the notification from being very long in some cases. The intel gathering aspect of this is intended. If you (CCP) intends for the "end of auction" message to leak useful intel, then I believe you need to tweak things a bit.
First, I don't think the end of auction message should be sent only to bidders. That just encourages people who want the intel, but don't intend to use the teams in that system, to place a bunch of 1 ISK bids. Maybe the end of auction information for the last X days ( 7 < X < 60 ) should be available for general perusal somehow.
Second, it is too easy to shield who the bidding industrialists are: they will simply use an unaffiliated alt to place the bid. So I think you're going to have to change the team bonus system so that only bidding characters get access to them.
Third, if you do change the team bonus system so that only bidders get access to them, then industrialists will place 1 ISK bids with their production alts, and place *winning* bids with an unaffiliated alt (so we're back to square one again). So I think that not only will the team bonus system need to be limited to bidding characters, but also the amount of team bonus will need to be in proportion to the amounts bid.
MDD
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
304
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:05:00 -
[430] - Quote
Ludacrys wrote:To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.
They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel Weaselior wrote:how in the blazes is doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel, something highsec doesn't use, a highsec nerf and a nullsec boost I had the same reaction. Plus, it's a 50% increase in jump drive fuel consumption, not a 100% (doubling). Cite: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4526547#post4526547
Frothing seems to impede logic.
MDD |
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Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:06:00 -
[431] - Quote
If you would take the seconds of your life it takes to sign your posts, MDD, to instead think about what you are typing - in what circumstance would anyone wish to conceal their identities from bidding? |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
304
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:11:00 -
[432] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:If you would take the seconds of your life it takes to sign your posts, MDD, to instead think about what you are typing - in what circumstance would anyone wish to conceal their identities from bidding? I suppose the simplest answer would be those circumstances where the bidder doesn't wish it known that he/she bid.
The slightly more complex answer could be in those circumstances where, if the winning bidder's identity were known, they might then become the object of unwanted attention, such as war declarations to their player corporation.
As for my signatures, why do you care how I spend my time? Are you trying to get me to play the forums like you play them? (By the way, that's a rhetorical question; no answer is actually expected.)
MDD |
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
19
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:13:00 -
[433] - Quote
Do you have any details on where and how the teams will spawn for auction?
For instance, will they always be in High Sec hubs; leaving low sec, null sec, and wormholes always at a disadvantage? Or do you plan on team auctions spawning randomly throughout all stations and outposts in New Eden without any regard to security status? |
Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
8
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:20:00 -
[434] - Quote
Very interesting possibilities with the teams, I like it.
Can we expect (ships) crews in the future with a similar-ish system like this?
-Ela |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:20:00 -
[435] - Quote
So if you want to bid on a team, you must do so on every single alt you want to use that team with? If you want war-deccers the option of picking juicy targets, would a better system not offer griefers the ability to use locator agents to see who is actually employing teams at any given time?
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2572
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:20:00 -
[436] - Quote
tbh as i read the blog post it strongly reminded me on FW mechanics. Where one set of people is crying "please donate i want to farm more" and the other set doesn't care about farming so it doesn't donate (conflict of interests). However it might work here better since there is no public "teams" chat channel :P and the difference between a bad team and a perfect team is probably not as extreme as the difference between FW tier 1 payout and tier 5.
Its more of an optimization than a reward multiplier. It might even spawn a new profession "nomadic industrialist" ;) eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
167
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:26:00 -
[437] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:If you would take the seconds of your life it takes to sign your posts, MDD, to instead think about what you are typing - in what circumstance would anyone wish to conceal their identities from bidding?
This is Eve. Tell me a situation where you would want to not conceal your identity when iskies are on the line. It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:31:00 -
[438] - Quote
Aaaarrggggh, threads grow too damn fast -.-
A little idea for the mentioned "those 2.5% material reduction will not affect my BPCs that only require like less than a dozen per ingredient" issue:
How about changing the final result of material modifiers from floor(magic math) to ceil(same magic math) ? Meaning that when there is at least one external factor that reduces materials (greater than 0%), it would always at least reduce those materials by 1. Of course with extra constraints, like never get below 1 of each mat after applying the modifier, or the modifier originating from a BPs ME level should remain in the current form.
Might be worth thinking about, or might be utter crap, but just came to my mind while reading the first few pages. |
Shinya Shazih
10
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:35:00 -
[439] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50.
So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? Mashiekh of Tleilax - Director of Industry-á |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
135
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:35:00 -
[440] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Are there any plans to allow DUST players to invade eve stations and kill the manufacturing teams? If there are, I'm not aware of them. Though we did discuss housing the teams in a structure in space that can be shot at.
I've been trying to follow these changes but there's only so much a lowly PVPer can understand about industry...but this caught my attention. I take this idea didn't go through, though I wonder why? I always want more to shoot at, esp. nerds doing research in space etc. |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
304
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:37:00 -
[441] - Quote
Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? The size of your wallet.
MDD |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
188
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:38:00 -
[442] - Quote
I like the idea of combining Master of Orion II gameplay elements with Eve Online.
One day we will have actual ingame ship crew that have experience levels and tweak small stats like Warp Drive Speed, or Signature Size, etc Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Shinya Shazih
11
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:39:00 -
[443] - Quote
Gamer4liff wrote:Not much point implementing a new core element to a manufacturing system if it's out of the reach of the majority of manufacturers, after all.
New eve profession: grief by driving up auctions
Mashiekh of Tleilax - Director of Industry-á |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
443
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:40:00 -
[444] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:Ludacrys wrote:To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.
They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel Weaselior wrote:how in the blazes is doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel, something highsec doesn't use, a highsec nerf and a nullsec boost I had the same reaction. Plus, it's a 50% increase in jump drive fuel consumption, not a 100% (doubling). Cite: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4526547#post4526547Frothing seems to impede logic. MDD
One thing though...wouldn't the jump freighter thing be a shortish to medium term problem if more people move to null and create markets for goods? If goons are planning years ahead then the early losses in jump fuel would be trivial compared to long term domination. |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
450
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:41:00 -
[445] - Quote
Could these specialized NPC work teams (that could potentially be player trained via PI) possibly serve as some kind of interaction for DUST's planet side activities? i.e. attacking a team in training, in transit, on site, defending, extracting, sabotaging, etc.? DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
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Albert Spear
Non scholae sed vitae
47
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:41:00 -
[446] - Quote
This comment is across all of the industry related blogs.
This is probably the least specific set of Dev Blogs I have seen in the last 2 years.
That makes it hard to evaluate the total impact of the changes.
It may be that the changes are wonderful, and it maybe that they are horrible. I can't judge.
Some real world worked examples - typical of most of the dev blogs - would be most helpful in figuring out how I feel.
Right now, I am inclined to build all I can in the way of things I want and set on them. Stockpiling and holding production out of the market until after the Summer release. My gut feelings tell me that the costs and prices will increase significantly after the release.
Without the specifics I just don't know what to think about it.
Please across the 7 blogs give us some worked examples so we can be better informed, it maybe that this is the best change ever, only real data will tell us. |
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
121
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:43:00 -
[447] - Quote
you add a nice amount of **** in cycle production...meanwhile pos and sov code still waiting to be rework?
WTS BPO : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=307169 |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
304
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:50:00 -
[448] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:Ludacrys wrote:To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.
They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel Weaselior wrote:how in the blazes is doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel, something highsec doesn't use, a highsec nerf and a nullsec boost I had the same reaction. Plus, it's a 50% increase in jump drive fuel consumption, not a 100% (doubling). Cite: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4526547#post4526547Frothing seems to impede logic. MDD One thing though...wouldn't the jump freighter thing be a shortish to medium term problem if more people move to null and create markets for goods? If goons are planning years ahead then the early losses in jump fuel would be trivial compared to long term domination. You still need to ship foreign moon goo in. So, other than the marketplace of T2 goods, your thoughts are valid.
MDD |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
398
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:51:00 -
[449] - Quote
After taking a day to re-think it, I'm still concerned about the idea where teams will create production consolidation which increases risk to the industrialist.
Teams will be purchased because there is enough interest in them for that system to beat out everyone else. That implies that a non-trivial number of people are interested in making that class of thing. I would imagine that given the price differential, we're looking at people trying to pick up both the broad and narrow specialties. That further implies that more things will be made using the broad and narrow specialties as people decide to take advantage of the team while it's there.
Now, not all items are popular in a given area. There tend to be regional preferences. So we're increasing the chance that people will be creating similar things. It's already reduced by regional preference, then further reduced by chasing opportunity. Costs go up for raw components for demand to produce while the market is glutted with items of a certain class. Say small-scale/frigates. While I don't expect everyone to target that one thing I do expect that teams will end up being a net-negative in terms of a profitability of the people trying to make the most use of them -- unless they end up shipping their stuff far away.
So I expect to see a couple of percentage points of profitability trimmed off of a lot T1 goods where the blueprints are common enough to have a non-trivial number of people having them in reserve. T2 components will be less effected, may end up glutting the market in much the same way. It seems that sitting on inventory is going to be even more critical than it has before. This may end up hurting small-scale and low-skill industrialists.
(That said, overall the expansion is incredibly good for low-skill industrialists from the removal for the need for ME reducing skills meaning they can compete right away and not having to wait for months for skill slots in popular high-sec). |
Lost Hamster
FREE GATES Nulli Secunda
132
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:54:00 -
[450] - Quote
Seriously... Dear Devs, what have you smoked recently? I know that some of you can not handle Chilli
You know what I have liked in the industry? It's calculable. You give X in, you get Y out. With the recent plans to change the industry, it will be like a big black box. You put the X and some Z, and hopefully you get Y back. But your prices will fluctuate like hell. Good that my account expires in 5 day and 5 hours.. not sure if I want to play this industry anymore. See you at Star Citizen. |
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