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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
566
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:10:00 -
[91] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Each team has four members, and each member has a specialty. The specialty can be broad, but with less bonus (for example Ship GÇô Small Class) or narrow and bigger bonus (like Ship GÇô Frigate). Team members cannot have the same specialty.
Does "Team members cannot have the same specialty." mean specialty can overlap if slightly different or not ? e.g. Using your example could one team have two members : 1st having - Ship GÇô Small Class 2nd having - Ship GÇô Frigate
and these two overlapping ( but not exactly the same ) specialties would both apply to someone manufacturing frigates at the same time?
Yes, the example you give is possible (and even quite likely). In this case, the bonuses are cumulative when using this team to manufacture a frigate. The maximum possible bonus is 7.5% to ME or 15% to TE (as the max bonus for a broad specialty is 2.5% ME/5% TE, double that for narrow specialty). |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
566
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Are we going to see any player Eve skills based around teams?
e.g. Team Relations - boosts team member specialization bonuses by 10% per level so a team that gave a 5% bonus would give a 7.5% bonus at skill level 5?
Numbers etc... only an example not a proposal. My question is will there be Eve skills related to this?
We're not planning any at this moment. Might add later if we feel the need. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
566
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Will there be an option to create teams for your own use through your PI (effectively university scholarships and the like)?
This is one of the things we might add in the future. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
566
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:11:00 -
[94] - Quote
handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated?
They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. |
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
395
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:12:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Is there a minimum markup when bidding on a team? And if so is it % or fixed value? The minimum is based on the distance between the team's home system and the system you're bidding for. The current numbers are 10,000 ISK per jump (this is easily adjustable).
What about bidding from wormholes? There is no jump range to home system. Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
438
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:12:00 -
[96] - Quote
Just a thought but isn;t null industry already clumped around very few outposts? Doesn't this make it very easy for the industrialists there to chip in small amounts that aggregate and guarantee the best teams (therefore best profits)? This pushes more S&I advantage into null i would think? |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
566
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:14:00 -
[97] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Are there any plans to bring standings, both faction and corporation based into the system? Tax reduction? Faction Teams? Carthum Inventors? Anything like that? Is there anything at all planned for standings or are they made more and more obsolete? +1
We've discussed having racial differences in teams, if we go for something like that standing can be added into it as well. But that is a future discussion, we're not aiming for this in the summer release. |
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
33
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:14:00 -
[98] - Quote
Ermm, so 10k Isk per jump, that-¦s how many billions for a WH?
Teams will also be a no-go for wormholers since having one is like a big sign "please invade me, I have lots of productionproducts around"
Will there be bonused teams for Supercapproduction?
And there really should be a hardcap for the amount of team per system, otherwise they will just get stacked to hell in a handful systems in Sov-0.0 and high.
Overall a bit disappointed with the entire teamconcept, it doesn-¦t seem to be really fun but just a bonus for rich groups and shanking everyone else. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7173
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:14:00 -
[99] - Quote
What are the sort of broad/narrow specialties when it comes to non-ships (or are ships the only thing that teams boost)? How narrow or broad are they (e.g. is narrow like "small lasers", "lasers" or "mega beam laser IIs only" and is broad like "mods", "armor mods" or "active armor taking mods")? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Johann Rascali
Crunchy Crunchy The Obsidian Front
95
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:15:00 -
[100] - Quote
I love the idea of specializing teams based on their local proficiencies and encourage its implementation in the future. It could cause nice lore-based changes (which I generally welcome) such as making drones cost less in Gallente space. That in turn would probably spur more import and export of finished goods. Welcome to our universe where cooldown timers are a mystery, the PLEX menu is just an advertisement, shrapnel bombs deal explosive force, concussion bombs are somehow kinetically penetrative, and who left all these prototype Inferno modules all over the place? |
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CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
315
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:17:00 -
[101] - Quote
DireNecessity wrote:Berluth Luthian wrote:What will happen to the effects from teams if their tenure is up part way through the completion of a job? I'm puzzled it wasn't covered in the Dev Blog - it is the obvious question
The job will continue and complete without issue. Any bonuses are applied on submitting the job, even if the Team retire (before the job is complete) the bonus has already been applied for the duration of the job.
Feel free to poke me on: Twitter |
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Olari Vanderfall
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
105
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:18:00 -
[102] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Olari Vanderfall wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Olari Vanderfall wrote:Time saving is pretty much irrelevant for most items I can see you are not a competent industrialist by this statement. I can see you don't have a concept of a real life. When my 10 run T2 BPC takes 12 hours or 13 doesn't matter. My friend, you are not a competent industrialist if you cannot see the value of time saving for manufacture limited BPs, for which there are a lot with much longer build times than the 13 hour example which you just picked out of thin air in an attempt to make your argument look valid.
I understand the concept and agree that for longer build items it makes a difference. I should have stated it doesn't really affect me because I primarily deal with T2 module Bpcs, so time saving is mostly irrelevant. Certainly not worth my effort. |
Slumber
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
12
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:19:00 -
[103] - Quote
I've read the posts on the upcoming changes, as a wormhole person I think these changes are going in the wrong direction. Maybe start by fixing mining in WH space as that is now dead and gone ( you mine in wh space means you die) ... this basic fix will be the start of industry being able to move forward. fix whats broken folks instead of adding more bs. AHARM Recruiter |
DEFANDER
Taurus Quantum Technologies Taurus Quantum Dynamics
9
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:19:00 -
[104] - Quote
Man i would really love to have a Skype conference with Team Super Friends.
It looks to me like the players that have the "POWER" in the game ( military of economy ) call the shots.
Would like to know what the plans are for the next 1-2 years . |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1519
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:21:00 -
[105] - Quote
I think i like it
Good to hear about Inferno boosters again |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
567
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:21:00 -
[106] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:What are the sort of broad/narrow specialties when it comes to non-ships (or are ships the only thing that teams boost)? How narrow or broad are they (e.g. is narrow like "small lasers", "lasers" or "mega beam laser IIs only" and is broad like "mods", "armor mods" or "active armor taking mods")?
The teams cover everything possible to manufacture, the Ship type was just used as an example. To give you a bit better idea for the specialties, there are 135 of them total (40 broad, 95 narrow). An example is Armor, a broad specialty. It has three narrow specialties under it - Armor Active Modules, Armor Passive Expanders and Armor Passive Resistance. |
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DEFANDER
Taurus Quantum Technologies Taurus Quantum Dynamics
9
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:23:00 -
[107] - Quote
Slumber wrote:I've read the posts on the upcoming changes, as a wormhole person I think these changes are going in the wrong direction. Maybe start by fixing mining in WH space as that is now dead and gone ( you mine in wh space means you die) ... this basic fix will be the start of industry being able to move forward. fix whats broken folks instead of adding more bs.
Yeah well, i have been hoping for years now that they would fix WH and NULL industry as a hole.
Guess what ...
I have given up hope .
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Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:23:00 -
[108] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Weaselior wrote:What are the sort of broad/narrow specialties when it comes to non-ships (or are ships the only thing that teams boost)? How narrow or broad are they (e.g. is narrow like "small lasers", "lasers" or "mega beam laser IIs only" and is broad like "mods", "armor mods" or "active armor taking mods")? The teams cover everything possible to manufacture, the Ship type was just used as an example. To give you a bit better idea for the specialties, there are 135 of them total (40 broad, 95 narrow). An example is Armor, a broad specialty. It has three narrow specialties under it - Armor Active Modules, Armor Passive Expanders and Armor Passive Resistance.
Any chance we can get a complete table? |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
405
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Weaselior wrote:What are the sort of broad/narrow specialties when it comes to non-ships (or are ships the only thing that teams boost)? How narrow or broad are they (e.g. is narrow like "small lasers", "lasers" or "mega beam laser IIs only" and is broad like "mods", "armor mods" or "active armor taking mods")? The teams cover everything possible to manufacture, the Ship type was just used as an example. To give you a bit better idea for the specialties, there are 135 of them total (40 broad, 95 narrow). An example is Armor, a broad specialty. It has three narrow specialties under it - Armor Active Modules, Armor Passive Expanders and Armor Passive Resistance. Could you give us an example for ammunition? |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
567
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:24:00 -
[110] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:I think i like it Good to hear about Inferno boosters again
You'll like it more when you start feeding it to young science graduates eager to provide for their families. Not moral ambiguities at all |
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Berluth Luthian
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
187
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:24:00 -
[111] - Quote
So 4 team members, 6 different groups of teams (ship, mobile, structure, etc), (only manufacturing atm), 5 quality levels, 20-30ish sub specialties per member??...
So lets say you are shooting for a team that has decent production benefit for large shield modules and rigs. You would be satisfied with quality level 3-5, and around 5 of 30 different specialties, 1 of the 6 team types.
I'm curious what the chance would be to spawn a team that would be relavant for your market category...
If there are around 1,000 teams made during a week long bidding process, then my guess is that 10-12 teams during that time might be something you would want. So it'd be likely that you would see something useful at some point during the week, but depending on how competitive your market is you could have a hard time securing the folks.
Then the other concern would be that if you would want to scroll through 1000 active, biddable teams, the search interface should be as easy to use as possible. Potentially a useful thing to have a CREST endpoint for! |
Eurynome Mangeiri
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:25:00 -
[112] - Quote
ok, so i just read all the devblogs:
congratulations, you are just ruining the game, within the six months after this update, say goodbye to eve.
i already have 3 indus corp CEO who contacted me asking if i want to buy there stuff since they are quitting and shutting down their corps (we are talking about 20+ player leaving within two weeks), and we are talking about ppl building mass T2 components, they just don't see the point of playing anymore, so do i.
what are you hoiping, having 12k players or less? cause by september, that is what will happen |
Don Aubaris
113
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:25:00 -
[113] - Quote
A boost on your job in exchange for money...fine, although it should only be a speed-boost. More people will usually not bring down material costs.
Auctioning teams to get them in a particular system : bad idea. This just means that, once again, you as devs can't resist to manipulate the sandbox. People must and shall play in heavily used systems apparantly.
Making this auctioned team available for the whole system for no charge : really bad idea. A resource payed by one (or a few) is freely available to the general public. What kind of socialistic crap is that in this capitalistic game? So I'm sponsoring my competitors and every freeloader in the game? Bringing a team to a system should be an investment. Yes you can make it available to all. But then one should get at least part of the money people pay to add to those teams to their jobs.
PS. I wonder how long it will take before all teams are in null-sec...
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
567
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:25:00 -
[114] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Weaselior wrote:What are the sort of broad/narrow specialties when it comes to non-ships (or are ships the only thing that teams boost)? How narrow or broad are they (e.g. is narrow like "small lasers", "lasers" or "mega beam laser IIs only" and is broad like "mods", "armor mods" or "active armor taking mods")? The teams cover everything possible to manufacture, the Ship type was just used as an example. To give you a bit better idea for the specialties, there are 135 of them total (40 broad, 95 narrow). An example is Armor, a broad specialty. It has three narrow specialties under it - Armor Active Modules, Armor Passive Expanders and Armor Passive Resistance. Any chance we can get a complete table?
I'll try to get it out to you at some point, maybe in a separate dev blog. We're still tweaking and tuning it. Should be good in a week or two. |
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Raketefrau
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Fatal Ascension
34
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:26:00 -
[115] - Quote
You people are insane. Srsly.
I guess there weren't yet enough complexities in the manufacturing chain. There just weren't enough calculations on which you might miss something and lose isk, so a new system needed to be invented to add multiple new layers of complexity to the process. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
567
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:27:00 -
[116] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Weaselior wrote:What are the sort of broad/narrow specialties when it comes to non-ships (or are ships the only thing that teams boost)? How narrow or broad are they (e.g. is narrow like "small lasers", "lasers" or "mega beam laser IIs only" and is broad like "mods", "armor mods" or "active armor taking mods")? The teams cover everything possible to manufacture, the Ship type was just used as an example. To give you a bit better idea for the specialties, there are 135 of them total (40 broad, 95 narrow). An example is Armor, a broad specialty. It has three narrow specialties under it - Armor Active Modules, Armor Passive Expanders and Armor Passive Resistance. Could you give us an example for ammunition?
Right now it is Ammo as the broad specialty, with Bombs, Crystals, Hybrid Ammo, Missiles & Rockets and Projectile Ammo as the narrow specialties. We could break it out further (like have separate narrow specialties for tech I and tech II ammo), but we're trying to keep the total number not too high |
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1509
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:28:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Quintessen wrote:Two major concerns:
1) How is this not simply going to go to whomever has the most coordinated effort to attract them and who already has the most money (major null-sec alliances).
2) When a team arrives people will likely shift production to their specialties for that system? How is that not likely to produce an oversupply for all involved meaning that using a team actually means less profit and not more? One of my first instincts is going to be seeing if using teams actually hurts a local system. Valid concerns, the way to aim to address both is by having a lot of teams active. As there are only so many teams you need, lots of teams mean more people have access to them. As for people shifting production based on team availability, I don't think this will be a major issue, as this assumes you already have the blueprints and the logistic chain setup to take advantage of the new team. I don't think this will be the case all that often.
Or you know, someone could lock up all the teams of a given type to monopolize margin of a specific market. This is a fun use case though so I don't see it as a negative thing. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
80
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:29:00 -
[118] - Quote
What is CCP trying to achieve with all the changes?
Some of the goals I think I get: : Risk versus reward - reward riskier manufacture in low and 0 space with higher rewards. Fine, has needed addressing for a long while now. UI changes - to reduce the Eve client UI complexity barrier to entry for players to get involved in industry and improve quality of life ( in theory :) ). Great no issues with the concept proof will be in the pudding.
What confuses me a little: This team thing sounds fun - but I'm getting mixed messages from CCP. Some changes seem designed to encourage spreading out of players, other changes seem to be designed to do directly the opposite and clump players together. Which is it you are trying to encourage? Or are you trying to encourage a more dynamic map? A map that shifts and changes over time, as players are continually adjusting trying to chase optimal conditions for profit?
If you are going to try and encourage a more nomadic moving lifestyle among the players you're going to have to look at how players work. I'm as small a minnow as you could probably get inventing and manufacturing T2 in high sec. If you made the system next door 10% cheaper I might consider moving - but moving is a massive job. When all these exciting changes land, I am most likely to stay where I am because I have so much stuff and moving it all would be a nightmare. Even with significant financial incentive I doubt I could be bothered to move more than once a year. I'm not criticizing, I like the look of a lot of the stuff on the horizon, some I know I don't understand, and some I am a bit sceptical of, but I will give it a proper chance before making my mind up. I just think IF CCP is trying to make us chase our cheese around Eve, bear in mind for some of us, moving might not be worth the effort in a practical sense.
One last thing - For the love of all the gods please please test all this stuff properly, and then test it some more, before rolling it out. It sounds exciting but CCP can do some real damage if all this new shiney stuff is riddled with bugs when it lands. The opportunity to cause long lasting damage to Eve here is huge. |
Berluth Luthian
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
187
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:30:00 -
[119] - Quote
I feel like the spawn engine for teams, seeding based on 'the amount of manufacturing/research jobs performed per broad category' might be good.
if you had each of the 6 team groups spawn an equal amount, you're likely going to get an abundance of strucutre teams, and too few ship/equipment teams. |
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:31:00 -
[120] - Quote
You are paying extra money down, to increase material and time efficiency. This is basically converting the minerals saved, into liquid ISK spent for job installation, directly at the UI menu. Basically an option of, do you want to pay more minerals or do you want to pay more liquid ISK for whatever you are building. Liquid ISK > ship production anyone? I find this facet disturbing about the system. Any comment on that?
See, I would applaud this system if it meant, the winning system gets the team at no extra cost than the basic salary team *because* you have already paid for them by winning the bid for the system. This may affect you, or others, but then to additionally pay more to use the benefits is not really a benefit is there?
For people not looking to make a profit and just powering through the game, profit doesn't really matter and I feel this is the half that this system is going to benefit. It's not really honest. You have to acknowledge that at some stage, it is beneficial to trade off profit for speed and mass manufacturing advantage because in the end, this means overpowering your opposing alliance economically by fielding more ships than they can, even if you lose more ships. There are people who do this, and you have to acknowledge that PLEXING is built into the game, and on a level that is okay, but when it becomes punishing to others who don't use it, I feel it is unfair.
That is what I mean by dishonest.
If it was honest, you would take into account the *fact* that you have already, taken into account for labor workforce and the cost of needing to pay additional money in a system if the workforce is in high demand. This already implies specialized labor because the wages are different from one system to another.
So when you bid, say 10m on a team to get them to work in a system, and then you pay them even more to actually work, it doesn't make any sense except from a PLEX > power gaming perspective. You have already won them, you have paid for them one way or another and the system activity will go up. At least the person who bought them, will use them for extensive manufacturing, which means whether or not you decide to use them or not, your installation job costs, your wages for the default team will still go up and this makes no sense. You are implying the default team somehow does not exist or does not consist of workers by asking to pay extra for a team of workers. Yes, they are specialized, yes, they are on boosters, made to set them up for life in a short time span, but this is accounted for by the winning bid for a system - this goes to the team, does it not?
When they go to work, they still replace regular Joe, who has been working there in the system to feed his family at the same job. You wouldn't pay a specialized team, that has already been paid extra for their 'burnout' style of working, a higher wage because they are still say, flipping burgers... They may be better at flipping burgers, but you made sure of that when you hired them. Does this make sense? You've already paid them to work there, and as work rises because quality of work rises, the wages rise. So... They are paid fairly just by being treated as regular workers and by ironically, generating more work, they gain more than poor Joe would working there, even as he has already been replaced.
The cost for specialized teams is already built into the system, before you actually double pay for the specialized team. Better workers implies more work, which implies higher salaries and this is the default behavior with the labor system just explained in previous dev blogs. So I ask again, what are you paying for?
Goes back to my original point, you are paying liquid ISK for convenience, not necessarily profit. I think once people start to realize this by running actual math through their spreadsheets, this is not going to be a very exciting feature.
I like the idea, but not the way it is implemented.
Furthermore, I like the legacy, team ownership and PI training ideas. They should be in the game not because it helps or are not necessarily because your goals for landscape shaping have been met, but because they are very technically sound.
Unfortunately I think they come from different camps. The camp working to make the game more profitable and the camp actually working to make the game more fun and non-generic. It doesn't seem to me that they have met at a happy medium here, at least for the non-powering gamer.
I would be very excited about this system if not for the 'double-down' ISK sink, which is favoring a particular style of play, while assuming everyone is plexing. Dare I say, if I am not PLEXING, am I still not paying a subscription for the same game? Or is my subscription worth less because I am not plexing, I mean a "specialized worker"? Hmm. |
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