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Are you satisfied with the final Hybrid re-balance?

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ClusterFook Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.11.17 07:28:00 - [1] - Quote Just want to see how many people think CCP has made Hybrids a desirable weapon system with their finished changes basically if you think they did an acceptable job balancing them. They stated that the changes on Sisi will go live and will be revisited after a few months* to see if further tweaks are needed (so bacially they are done for a long time). Not looking for reasons or suggestions. +1 if you think CCP has done a good job balancing the hybrids -1 If you think the changes are not enough For those who dont know here are the final changes (tried to condense) : All hybrid turrets: Hybrid turret reload time will be 5 seconds. Hybrid ammo will be 50% smaller (and turret capacity reduced to keep same number of charges) -30% capacitor use -12% Powergrid usage. Exceptions: Light Electron Blasters, Light Ion Blasters, 125mm Railguns, 75mm Railguns XL Turrets: -5 CPU L Turrets: -3 CPU M Turrets: -2 CPU S Turrets: -1 CPU Exception: 75mm Railguns Tracking Speed Increase: Blaster tracking: +20% Railgun tracking: +5% Exception: XL turrets Damage Increase: Railgun railgun: +10% to Damage modifier Blaster damage +5% to Damage modifier Exception: XL turrets Tech II Ammo Javelin (all sizes): Removed cap penalty Javelin, Gleam and Quake (all sizes): Removed tracking speed penalty, added 25% tracking speed bonus Hail (all sizes): -25% falloff from -50% Hybrid turret ships: Max Velocity +10 on the following ships: Arazu, Astarte, Brutix, Catalyst, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Enyo, Eos, Falcon, Guardian-Vexor, Helios, Incursus, Ishtar, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant Max Velocity +5 on the following ships: Cormorant, Federation Navy Comet, Hyperion, Kronos, Sin, Vindicator Inertia Modifier -5% on the following ships: Adrestia, Arazu, Ares, Astarte, Atron, Brutix, Catalyst, Celestis, Cormorant, Daredevil, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Eagle, Enyo, Eos, Eris, Exequror Navy Issue, Falcon, Federation Navy Comet, Ferox, Guardian-Vexor, Harpy, Helios, Hyperion, Incursus, Ishkur, Ishtar, Kronos, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Merlin, Moa, Phobos, Raptor, Rokh, Sin, Taranis, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant, Vindicator, Vulture
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 1157	Posted - 2011.11.17 07:38:00 - [2] - Quote That's by far the largest boost I've ever seen applied since I started playing in 2006. I think it's enough for now. If CCP Tallest is genuinely committed to iterating on the issue, then what we're looking at is a pretty good starting point to go live with. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Zagdul Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 135	Posted - 2011.11.17 07:40:00 - [3] - Quote I'll take what I can get. Is it enough? Only time will tell. It's not Rocket Surgery
Shadow Lord77 Shadow Industries I 64	Posted - 2011.11.17 07:53:00 - [4] - Quote This looks quite good.
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 179	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:03:00 - [5] - Quote These changes are a good start, certainly an improvement over what we have to deal with currently on TQ. I especially welcome the tracking and the ship velocity updates. +1 For now. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
ACE McFACE Acetech Systems 90	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:23:00 - [6] - Quote These changes are good and will hopefully make blasters and railguns more viable for PvP +1 INB4 blasters should kill anything in 1 second crowd Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt!
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:23:00 - [7] - Quote I'm happy enough with it. Hybrids may not be wtfawesome, but I'll no longer feel like an idiot for choosing them over lasers or projectiles on droneboats like the Vexor and Dominix.
Handsome Hussein 106	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:31:00 - [8] - Quote +1 I started training Medium Hybrids V because I Believe. Actually, I just finished Medium Projectiles V and figured what the hell. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
Dunmur Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries 27	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:33:00 - [9] - Quote If pipe dreams help you sleep at night.
Roime Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 14	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:38:00 - [10] - Quote +1 I like this buff as it does not change the role of blaster boats, only makes them better in their style of fighting. Will blasters be the answer to fotm kiting? No, blaster pilots need to come up with new tactics, keep the game evolving. This is certainly not a too small buff, danger of overbuffing ships like Vexor, Myrm and Domi is real. Dominix especially might become a real beast this winter. Railguns will be very nice for PVE after the buff.

Opertone Signal 7 8	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:51:00 - [11] - Quote what about us caldari? We still have the ultimate optimal bonus on all of our ships, now we need the damage.
JackStraw56 Bayesian Motion Knights of Tomorrow 25	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:57:00 - [12] - Quote Still not sure medium hybrids will be viable, this does make large hybrids look nicer though.
Tore Vest Vikinghall 65	Posted - 2011.11.17 09:05:00 - [13] - Quote Hybrid re-balance can be good enough... time will tell.. Its blaster boates that needs a look over. Maby 10% more armor hitpoints so ship can survive on its way to optimal range ? I would love a afterburner speed boost... And some better sensor strength Dont take away gallentes drones
baltec1 195	Posted - 2011.11.17 09:08:00 - [14] - Quote I struggle to think of any issues that have not been fixed and very much look forwards to all of the ships that will now be viable. I have even started training rails so I am going to be having fun experimenting with new setups for months
DeLaBu FireStar Inc Curatores Veritatis Alliance 5	Posted - 2011.11.17 09:18:00 - [15] - Quote After last night painfully chipping away at a covops in my blaster ceptor (yeah, lol), I would say +1. Have enough been done to make the hybrid platforms that are supposed to carry them better at carrying them? Maybe not. But it's a good start. Just don't leave it there, and go wandering off after space barbies (too much), please CCP.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 2177	Posted - 2011.11.17 09:32:00 - [16] - Quote CCP have stated this is not the final, but an on going buff. Time will tell if it's enough, but I say no. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Dr Karsun Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor 1	Posted - 2011.11.17 09:52:00 - [17] - Quote I really love hybrids and find it awesome that finally my primary weapon will get a boost to be in par with others, but ther's one issue: Quote: -30% capacitor use If that is true, it's quite insane, since it'll bring all gallente battleships using those huge rails in par with minmatar non-cap using ships. I've checked on sisi and my fears were right. Even without any cap mods a pvp-sniper fitted megathron (which used to be quite cap-draining even with my maxed out cap skills) is stable and in fact, very well cap stable to the point where you could mwd and shoot for up to 15 minutes. Mind that I don't have maxed out mwd skills so I guess it could be stable with a lil' bit of work. And that's without cap rigs, without cap mods of any kind. Keeping the cap booster just for anti-neuting purposes seems silly especially in big fleets with guardians. In small gangs it'll still be in use but just as a precaution against neut fleets. The rest of the changes, imo, will finally bring the hybrids up to the level of all other primary weapons, so I'm not objecting to those. Not sure if the tracking boost for blastes is enough, but surely it'll make more people use them. "Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting!
Poetic Stanziel Arrakis Technology 305	Posted - 2011.11.17 10:02:00 - [18] - Quote +1 Are these changes making it into Crucible? I read something the other day that stated the hybrid changes were not going to be part of the Crucible update. It could have just been someone trolling. I was not able to find any post that stated either way with surety. Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk
non judgement Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance 149	Posted - 2011.11.17 10:15:00 - [19] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: +1 Are these changes making it into Crucible? I read something the other day that stated the hybrid changes were not going to be part of the Crucible update. It could have just been someone trolling. I was not able to find any post that stated either way with surety. They are making it into the expansion. They are the changes that are on sisi now, I believe. +1 should be interesting. Some of the ships having more cap recharge means freeing up some slots for other things instead of cap modules. I can't wait to see what happens when they hit TQ.
Onictus Legendary Knights Vorpal's Edge 31	Posted - 2011.11.17 10:21:00 - [20] - Quote For now there is no compelling reason to fly hybrids over projectiles. I will from time to time, but I do anyway. My frigates (that weren't broken anyway) just got a bit better, so that is nice, and playing with station huggers is going to be a bit easier. I'll still be in my canes or and stabbers and such a lot.

Elson Tamar Lion Investments 35	Posted - 2011.11.17 10:21:00 - [21] - Quote +1 for now, but until we have seen them in action its hard to tell.
Ludi Tomina BALKAN EXPRESS Nulli Secunda 2	Posted - 2011.11.17 10:44:00 - [22] - Quote + 1 of course. All aspects(ships AND guns) of fighting with hybrid weapons got buffed, as we can see in nicely done OP. Maybe it's not enough, but CCP has done it's part in providing us with a new batch of sand for our sandbox. It's up to players to see what can be built with it (or in this case, teared down )
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 10:50:00 - [23] - Quote Malcanis wrote: That's by far the largest boost I've ever seen applied since I started playing in 2006. Well that's not true. The Minnie buff (who weren't awful to begin with) got the ammo type changes and sudden falloff bonuses due to TE/TC, without the DEVS giving it some thought if that wouldn't be slightly OP if they'd leave the ships as is, which they did. CCP is still not fearless enough to actually tackle the real problem; pulse+scorch and projectiles, instead they give hybrids some buff that sounds good but changes nothing in regards to their possible strategies. It changes nothing. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront 147	Posted - 2011.11.17 11:05:00 - [24] - Quote Malcanis wrote: That's by far the largest boost I've ever seen applied since I started playing in 2006. I think it's enough for now.... It is very similar to what they did to projectiles in scope, essentially rewriting the usage patterns. Apart from the reload change it is exactly what I and others suggested be done .. big tracking boost with a slight damage boost on top. Should serve to make them viable on off-race hulls without breaking balance completely (like what happened with projectiles). Would suggest that first round of iterations focus on hulls and their usage of the hybrids since I don't think the guns can be buffed much more without breaking them irreparably and no one is interested in a FoTM as omni-potent as the minnie turned out to be. Looking forward to seeing what the Mega's can do with god tracking
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 149	Posted - 2011.11.17 11:13:00 - [25] - Quote on the rails case, you could get further but it seems good. the main issue still lingers which is the uselessnes of an optimal bonus on ships that don't need to shoot further than 150km away. on the blastes case, while any change is a good change, there is still no compelling reason to use them instead an AC or pulse boat, unless you don't have any SP invested beyond hybrids. (cruiser and battleship) blaster ships still lack the mobility and the damage boost they received isn't that special at all. frigate-level blasters didn't needed a boost at all, since the staple frigate blaster ship, the taranis was already great, and the DD was even better. with these changes, coupled with the dram nerf, it is possible that the DD is now bordering on OP status. in sum, the changes were half-assed, much more on blasters, but much less on rails. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Daedalus Arcova Havoc Violence and Chaos BricK sQuAD. 119	Posted - 2011.11.17 11:44:00 - [26] - Quote -1 Blasters still aren't good enough in their niche. They need higher DPS at short range to make up for all the time wasted, and damage received while getting into range. Hybrid pilots still lack a weapon system that is competitive at mid-range. Rails are still pointless compared to other weapon systems, particularly the 150mm-250mm calibers. Crap dps, insignificant alpha, and only start to gain superiority at suicidal warp-to ranges. A weapon in want of a role.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 109	Posted - 2011.11.17 12:18:00 - [27] - Quote It's a pretty big buff, but I don't believe that it's made blasters worth using in small-scale combat in a world where AC and Minmatar hulls haven't been changed, or made rails worth using in fleet where Scorch, Tachyons, artillery, the Apoc's range bonus and the 150 km soft cap and 250 km hard cap range limits apply. Blasterboats are still slower and less agile, and with much less range, than AC hulls. Sniping beyond 150 km is still irrelevant and rails at less than 150 km are still much inferior to other weapons. The new rail Naga is a model for what rails should be. It has a substantial DPS advantage over the other t3 BCs beyond about 80 km, which is deserved because of its deficiencies in mobiity, sig, scan res and alpha. The tachyon Oracle will have good tracking and great DPS close up; the 1400mm Tornado has mobility, alpha and selectable damage; the Naga has raw DPS at range. As for blasters, well, AC hulls are a model for what blasterboats should look like. Fast hulls able to get to optimal where they can apply lots of DPS. If you cut AC falloff down to blaster level, then you'd have a good idea of what working blaster hulls would look like.
Jerick Ludhowe Shadow Legion Industries Dark Phoenix Rising. 20	Posted - 2011.11.17 12:37:00 - [28] - Quote I've gotten a chance to log at least 15+ hours of blaster testing on Sisi thus far. At this point I must say that the changes have made a significant improvement most specifically in regards to fitting issues and cap consumption however the changes to tracking, reload, and the 5% dmg buff are most certainly noticeable. While these "Fixes" are a step in the right direction I do think CCP has a fair amount of work to do; more specifically focused at the ship hulls themselves rather than the weapons. I'd like to take a moment and share my findings with the community and hopefully CCP. Ships: Enyo - While not a terrible ship this AF has been in the shadow of it's more bad ass cousin the Ishkur since conception. The Enyo trades a mid slot and the capability to field 4 more drones in favor of a turret, and another low slot. While this may sound reasonable on paper it's less than underwhelming in actual practice. The main problem I see with the Enyo at this point is that it does not have enough CPU to take full advantage of that 4th low and is more or less forced to fit a mag stab to reach dps levels close to that of the Ishkur. This results in a ship that has worse damage projection, a worse tank, and the inability to effectively tackle on its own. It's time to bring the Enyo inline with it's big brother. Suggestion - +25 CPU and + 10m/s The increased CPU will allow a pilot to take full advantage of that 4th low in the form of an explosive hardener allowing it to tank on par with the Ishkur or a 2nd Mag stab making it the quintessential AF DPS platform for point blank melting (as it should be). The speed increase would make it slightly faster than the Ishkur slightly improving the ships overall damage projection and survivability. Brutix - Again this is not a terrible ship by any means however due to the introduction of the Naga the Brutix's most useful role (shield buffer gank) will become obsolete due to the significantly increased Dps, Dmg projection, Shield buffer, speed, and alpha that the Naga provides. Essentially the Blaster Naga will do everything the shield gank Brutix does but much much better. Because of this shift I'd like to see the Brutix returned to it's originally intended role, small gang warfare through the use of a powerful active armor tank relative to it's class. For this to happen it is imperative that the slot layout of the ship be addressed as well as a look at the ships current fitting capabilities. Suggestion - +1 Low slot, +35 Grid. The additional low slot is obviously to allow for more flexibility in double rep tank setups. Currently if you are to take advantage of the rep bonus you will find that it is pretty much guaranteed that you use all 5 lows if you intend to tank even 1 semi ganky BC. The problem with this is that you have no room for a MFS essentially forcing a trade off between an eanmII/hardener or MFS. W/O the MFs you're going to barley be breaking 550 dps at optimal with void (applied dmg will be much lower), and w/o the extra EANM II or Hardener your tank is going to break against single BCs that are not even that ganky. If this ship could engage and apply dmg at 20km I would see no problem with the current numbers however it's ideal range is realistically sub 5km. As for the grid increase I propose; I believe that this ship should be capable of fielding a full rack of Medium Ion Blasters as well as a double rep tank + support mids. With these improvements the Brutix will retain all it's weaknesses to kiting/focus fire/cap warfare however will actually be a significant threat in small gangs now once inside it's small engagement envelope. Astarte Ahh the Astarte, one of my favorite ships of all time. While my testing of this ship on Sisi has been extremely successful I still think that the ship could use some small improvements. The ship has been performing very well in hyper specific situations, namely 1v1s with good warp ins however outside of that somewhat unrealistic niche you're better off taking a BS nearly 100% of the time. While I think this ships Achilles heel should be a weakness to alpha the introduction of the tier3 have made this weakness far more apparent. Again, I feel that this ships issues would be best addressed through a change to slots as well as slight fitting improvements. Suggestion - +1 Low slot, +25 Grid. Essentially the same reasoning for the changes to the Brutix. The addition of another low slot will improve the ships flexibility as an active armor tanker. The increased grid will allow for an all neutron, double rep setup w/o the need for expensive grid implants. As stated above for the Brutix, I believe that the Naga will even outclass the Astarte as a shield gank platform simply due to the increased alpha, range, and slot configuration. Because of this I think the Astarte needs to be one of the most ferocious ships available for point blank range small gang warfare as it will never be as good as the Absolution or Sleipnir for larger scale fights. Alright folks that's all I have for you now however I intend to address a few more ships in the near future. Namely the Hyperion and to a lesser extent the Deimos and Thorax. -Jerick
Autonomous Monster Paradox Interstellar 27	Posted - 2011.11.17 13:06:00 - [29] - Quote Pretty happy with it. At least, I think if there are any remaining problems, they need to be addressed elsewhere- projectiles, scorch, hulls, etc. Jerick: nice post. Eagerly awaiting your next one. (I think the Enyo could do with dropping that launcher slot for another turret, myself).
Bubanni SniggWaffe 17	Posted - 2011.11.17 13:46:00 - [30] - Quote I think it's great changes to blasters and rails, and their stats look decent now :P so personly I don't think they need to tweak them much The ships however could still use more tweaking, this might even be tweaks in fundemental stuff like how armor rigs effect your ships (maybe instead of a speed penalty, they could do something else? like use powegrid, or something less severe like shield rigs) And armor plates should be effect the speed and agility "LESS!!! MUCH LESS" :3



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