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Moostang	Posted - 2006.06.04 22:11:00 - [1] Edited by: Moostang on 04/06/2006 22:11:33 Just bought a brand new Ishtar and started running agent 4's. First mission I received was Vengence. For those of you that do not know, it has a 2.5 mil bounty Boss NPC pirate in the last level. I have been doing agent 4's in a dominix for quite some time now and have had no issues what-so-ever doing them. The boss rat tends to take a while to kill with my current drone skills (in a domi) but is very killable with just my drones alone. Well, in my shiney new Ishtar, my drones cannot break the npc boss's tank. Ishtar has the same bonus as the domi to drone damage except it is based on the cruiser skill (lvl 5 required to pilot ishtar) and the domi is based on the Battleship skill (currently lvl 3). So, I decided to run some tests and this is what I found. ------------------------- First of all, my relavant skills: Drone Interfacing - lvl 4 Drone Navigation - lvl 3 Drone Sharpshooting - lvl 4 Drones - lvl 5 Heavy Drone Ops - lvl 3 Battleship - lvl 3 Cruiser - lvl 5 ------------------------- Ishtar Bonus: Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. Lvl 5 cruiser = 50% more drone damage. ------------------------- Dominix Bonus: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. Lvl 3 Battleship = 30% more drone damage. ------------------------- Test variables: I ran 3 tests in each ship. I used one EM Heavy drone (Praetor). I attacked for approximately one minute which ended up being 26 hits. Target is a dominix with 0 em resists (shield only). ------------------------- Ishtar Results: Damage - Ishtar test 1 Hits26 Attack Time1 minute Total1823.5 Average70.13461538 DPS30.39166667 Damage - Ishtar test 2 Hits26 Attack Time1 minute Total1937.2 Average74.50769231 DPS32.28666667 Damage - Ishtar test 3 Hits26 Attack Time1 minute Total1826.9 Average70.26538462 DPS30.44833333 ------------------------- Dominix Results: Damage - Dominix test 1 Hits26 Attack Time1 minute Total2252.1 Average86.61923077 DPS37.535 Damage - Dominix test 2 Hits26 Attack Time1 minute Total1821.3 Average70.05 DPS30.355 Damage - Dominix test 3 Hits26 Attack Time1 minute Total1924.2 Average74.00769231 DPS32.07 ------------------------- With my current skills, the Ishtar should be doing 20% more damage than the dominix. These tests show that the drone damages of the ishtar are not what they should be. Raw Data
Minyon	Posted - 2006.06.04 22:42:00 - [2] if you do the math it looks like your domi is doing about the right damage 1.15 (drone damage) x 1.15 (heavy skill) x 1.8 (interfaceing) x 1.3 (domi skill) x 24 = 74 Average But the dps does look lower than it should be if you get avreage hits of 74 every 2 seconds you should get 37 dps (maybe its your maths) But as you results show the ishtar doing the same damage as the domi for most of the time i dont see why you couldnt kill the Boss NPC maybe he was just tanking more than normal.
Miistang	Posted - 2006.06.04 22:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Minyon But the dps does look lower than it should be if you get avreage hits of 74 every 2 seconds you should get 37 dps (maybe its your maths) I was dividing the total damage for the one minute duration and dividing it by 60 (seconds). Originally by: Minyon But as you results show the ishtar doing the same damage as the domi for most of the time i dont see why you couldnt kill the Boss NPC maybe he was just tanking more than normal. I agree that the domi is doing about what it should be. But the ishtar should be doing 20% more damage than the domi, but it seems to be doing less, which is my problem.
Deva Blackfire	Posted - 2006.06.04 23:30:00 - [4] Actually only 15% more damage (1.5 divided by 1.3). Also dunno what you are killing but for PvE preators arent too good idea. Sansha/bloods - use thermal drones guristas - use kinetic angels - use explo (iirc) serpentis - kinetic or thermal (cant be bothered to ceck their resists atm) EM drones are worst in every case mostly because of their low dmg modifier.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.06.05 00:46:00 - [5] 26 hits may not be statistically significant enough to prove a deviation of the percentage you're looking to prove. Try groups of a few hundred hits, maybe? Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Moostang	Posted - 2006.06.05 00:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Actually only 15% more damage (1.5 divided by 1.3). Not sure what the 1.5 and 1.3 numbers you're talking about are but this is where I got 20% more. Ishtar bonus = 10% per level of cruiser Dominix Bonus = 10% bonus per level of battleship My skills Cruiser lvl 5 = 50% bonus Battleship lvl 3 = 30% bonus 50-30=20 20% difference bonus from the two ship types. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also dunno what you are killing but for PvE preators arent too good idea. EM drones are worst in every case mostly because of their low dmg modifier. I was not using praetors for pve, I was using them to test with since they do the only damage type that ships have a base 0% (shields). Originally by: Nyphur 26 hits may not be statistically significant enough to prove a deviation of the percentage you're looking to prove. Try groups of a few hundred hits, maybe? Perhaps so, which is why I did 3 sets of 26 for testing. I'll work on a more extensive test when I have more time. [CLS] Moostang Celestial Horizon "G" Spot Division Ascendant Frontier
Hub Quantum	Posted - 2006.06.05 00:58:00 - [7] In your domi test alone you have a deviation of more than 20% (Domi test 1 (37.535)/ domi test 2 (30.355) = 1.236) in your three sample tests which considering you're measuring a difference of 15% you should increase your population statistics (More samples). Increasing your population statistics and I'd wager you'd see things normalize and eventually give way to the ishtar.
Hub Quantum	Posted - 2006.06.05 01:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Moostang Originally by: Deva Blackfire Actually only 15% more damage (1.5 divided by 1.3). Not sure what the 1.5 and 1.3 numbers you're talking about are but this is where I got 20% more. Ishtar bonus = 10% per level of cruiser Dominix Bonus = 10% bonus per level of battleship My skills Cruiser lvl 5 = 50% bonus Battleship lvl 3 = 30% bonus 50-30=20 20% difference bonus from the two ship types. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also dunno what you are killing but for PvE preators arent too good idea. EM drones are worst in every case mostly because of their low dmg modifier. I was not using praetors for pve, I was using them to test with since they do the only damage type that ships have a base 0% (shields). Originally by: Nyphur 26 hits may not be statistically significant enough to prove a deviation of the percentage you're looking to prove. Try groups of a few hundred hits, maybe? Perhaps so, which is why I did 3 sets of 26 for testing. I'll work on a more extensive test when I have more time. 1.3 is the lowest value, you're not measuring from 100% but the already 130% you have on your domi. Therefore if you are using a drone which does 100 damage (with all other factors included), he now does 130, 20% on top of that would mean he would do 156, which he won't do, he will do 100*1.5 for 150. It's just over a 15% difference. And before someone corrects me, of course that 100 damage drone is entirely hypothetical and is going to be affected by other factors such as DI, but the fundamental difference between your gallente BS 3 and cruiser 5 in a hac is a 1.153 difference the 100 damage drone is to easily explain it.
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.06.05 01:09:00 - [9] Originally by: Moostang Originally by: Nyphur 26 hits may not be statistically significant enough to prove a deviation of the percentage you're looking to prove. Try groups of a few hundred hits, maybe? Perhaps so, which is why I did 3 sets of 26 for testing. I'll work on a more extensive test when I have more time. But its still only basing the percentage on the 26 hits, three times. Try it over maybe 150 hits and see whacha get :) Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
jamesw	Posted - 2006.06.05 01:17:00 - [10] who cares for specifics.... both ships are pwn -- NEW Vid: Watch Things Die
Leuthispar Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:10:00 - [11] Everyone wrote conclusions and what they though but i guess the didnt read the part when you typed it couldnt break the tank on the boss... hmmm Lack of Reading Comprehension FTL. LOL
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:13:00 - [12] dominix > ishtar everytime except perhaps in mobile fleets. dont know why anyone buys ishtar tbh except to ponce around in .
Benglada Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:30:00 - [13] Originally by: slothe to ponce around in . Thats pretty much the only reason =) --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Commander Thrawn Tarnak inc. Eternal Empire	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:40:00 - [14] just to make sure, are you fitting blaster on these ships or just nos?
KillmAll187	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:49:00 - [15] Edited by: KillmAll187 on 11/11/2006 04:51:05 I have noticed the same thing TBH. When I finished Drone Interfacing V, the Ishtar seemed to do LESS damage. I fly an Eos and can kill NPC's with drones only and it feels just as fast as the Ishtar. What gives?
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Commander Thrawn just to make sure, are you fitting blaster on these ships or just nos? since nos have limited effect it would make sense to fit guns of some kind.
Father Weebles RoadKill Pickup Services	Posted - 2006.11.11 05:02:00 - [17] Originally by: Moostang Edited by: Moostang on 04/06/2006 22:11:33Heavy Drone Ops - lvl 3 theres your problem "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
Mr. Orange Gallente Band of Freelancers	Posted - 2006.11.11 05:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Actually only 15% more damage (1.5 divided by 1.3). Also dunno what you are killing but for PvE preators arent too good idea. Sansha/bloods - use thermal drones guristas - use kinetic angels - use explo (iirc) serpentis - kinetic or thermal (cant be bothered to ceck their resists atm) EM drones are worst in every case mostly because of their low dmg modifier. Wrong, EM drones are used on Bloods and Sansha as their weakest Shield and Armor resistance is EM.
Linavin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.11 06:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Mr. Orange Wrong, EM drones are used on Bloods and Sansha as their weakest Shield and Armor resistance is EM. Compare the actual damage delt by the drones, the fact that praetors do a lot less dps than ogres make ogres more efficent vs sanshas and bloods. I personally think EM drones need boosting, right now they don't have any statistical specialty compared to other drones (speed goes to minmatar, damage goes to gallente, caldari have a mix of damage and speed but have the most hitpoints) The poor damage makes EM drones almost useless, not only is EM a poor damage type in the first place, but the lack of damage adds insult to injury. Back on topic, you should really get more results to prove conclusively that the damage bonus isn't being applied. Try domis at bs lvl 4 and 5 too. --- Quote: "Seleene is Primary." "She isn't here." "She's still primary."
Sabine Borgia Amarr Antares Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.11 08:40:00 - [20] well i use ishtar too and somehow with vespa II the dmg is reall low gainst serpentis in compare to my astartes 5 hobgobs II
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.11 08:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Sabine Borgia well i use ishtar too and somehow with vespa II the dmg is reall low gainst serpentis in compare to my astartes 5 hobgobs II Thats because Hobgoblins = Thermal, Vespas = Kinetic and Serpentis are weakest to Thermic. ----- Move along, nothing to see here...
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.11 09:53:00 - [22] Sure sounds broke to me. Do you have some extra guns or nos or something on your domi that could be making a diff? (I don't know if nos works on npc or not).
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2006.11.11 10:06:00 - [23] Few people appear to be missing the point from the OP... The issue isn't so much the NPC he's fighting, the issue is that the Ishtar should do a lot more damage (15% more) than the Domi and in the test it doesn't... Agree with a few of the guys who suggested longer more prolonged testing might be more effective in demonstrating your results for comparison, but even if you aggregate the three tests together you get 5587.6 over 3 minutes on the Ishtar and 5997.6 over 3 minutes on the Domi. There is no real explanation over that time on why a Domi should out-damage your Ishtar with the same drone against the same target under the same conditions, so I agree - looks like the Ishtar is borked and further supports the reason why there's no real benefit in flying the ship over the Insurable/Cheaper/Higher DPS domi.
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.11 10:19:00 - [24] If you pretend the ishtar's bonus is 5% instead of 10% per level it justifies these numbers, I think that you found a bug Moostang and should report it. domi bonus = 30% with yoru skills if ishtar has 25% (assuming your level 5 and they got the bonus wrong) we get: 1.3 / 1.25 = 1.07 and your test shows: 5997.6 / 5587.6 = 1.07 So... yeah, who's gonna file the bug report?
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2006.11.11 10:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Sir Bart If you pretend the ishtar's bonus is 5% instead of 10% per level it justifies these numbers, I think that you found a bug Moostang and should report it. domi bonus = 30% with yoru skills if ishtar has 25% (assuming your level 5 and they got the bonus wrong) we get: 1.3 / 1.25 = 1.07 and your test shows: 5997.6 / 5587.6 = 1.07 So... yeah, who's gonna file the bug report? Ooh, well spotted...
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:29:00 - [26] Edited by: dalman on 11/11/2006 11:31:48 Yes, it does indeed look like the ishtar only get 5% per level. 78 hits with each ship is more than enough to draw conclusions. You really don't even need that many: It's quite obvious that for the "excellent hits" the ishtar scores @ 94-102, the domi instead scores @ 100-108. So the ishtar bonus is surely 5% and not 10% per level. Personally I think that's a good thing, but anyway either the bonus or description should be changed... And "OMGWTHGETOUTOFHERE" @ the people who completely fail to read the op and instead talks random crap. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Kur'Dekaija Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.11.11 14:42:00 - [27] Edited by: Kur''Dekaija on 11/11/2006 14:44:15 OMG the Ishtar was nerfed without anyone knowing about it?!?!?!?!?!!?!??1111 but for real.. we need a dev or someone to clarify this EDIT: ups :P didnt read this edit 2 Wtf, someone necroed a 5 months old thread. Has already been fixed then...
Lilani Kuzma Gallente Brass Monkeys Society The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.11 15:12:00 - [28] The ideea is he may have fitted some item`s to help the drone`s on the dominix.... i mean the tracking part!! so therefore that may be .. the change!
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2006.11.11 16:11:00 - [29] I don't believe it's a "good thing" that the Ishtar only gets the 5%, because then it has been well and truly nerfed with the drone changes and gets significantly less damage than it did before the drone changes were made.
Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.11 16:21:00 - [30] Edited by: Farjung on 11/11/2006 16:22:09 "Easy" way to test definitively would be to wait until you get a wrecking hit in the logs from both ships, as wrecking hit is always 3 x damage mod x damage, so you'll be able to derive what the damage mod is. I'll try and get hold of a ishtar myself and give it a go. --- Wave of Mutilation 2
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.12 03:05:00 - [31] There's no need to further test, his test shows that the ishtar is getting only a 5% per level boost to drone damage, now who is going to do the bug report? -Bart
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.12 03:32:00 - [32] Okay you lazy lumps, I did the bug report.
Sabine Borgia Amarr Antares Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.12 09:19:00 - [33] mh bad about math but i feel same the drones from the ishtar do lesser dmg i use also drones in absolution and they deal way faster with ceptors and frigs then same drones in ishtar
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.12 10:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Chronus26 Thats because Hobgoblins = Thermal, Vespas = Kinetic and Serpentis are weakest to Thermic. Incorrect. An 1.25 mil serp BS has 45% kin and 55% thermal resistance, for example. Check here for example: http://eveinfo.com/missions/301/eve-online-ambush-the-convoy
Tar Miniatur	Posted - 2006.11.12 12:01:00 - [35] How do you fill a bug report ? I couldn't find it in the petition list :-/ I suggest everyone fill a bug report for that !
commander tycho Minmatar Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.12 12:34:00 - [36] People, look at the date of the first post!
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.12 13:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 11/11/2006 16:22:09 "Easy" way to test definitively would be to wait until you get a wrecking hit in the logs from both ships, as wrecking hit is always 3 x damage mod x damage, so you'll be able to derive what the damage mod is. Indeed, that's how I verified that my DI5 wasn't bugged. I used sentry drones at optimal btw., to avoid tracking / range issues.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.12 13:36:00 - [38] From the Database (courtesy of HippoKing, I claim no credit) Vexor Ishtar Let's play spot the difference kids! ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.12 13:45:00 - [39] Originally by: keepiru From the Database (courtesy of HippoKing, I claim no credit) Vexor Ishtar Let's play spot the difference kids! Oh oh oh, I know! I know! It's the sig radius! - EVE is sick.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.12 13:54:00 - [40] You win: a cookie ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2006.11.12 14:51:00 - [41] and the tech level, the warpspeed multiplier, the cap size, the sig res... oh... and i was to say the second bonus... but... that wouldnt be cool, ey?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.12 16:41:00 - [42] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 12/11/2006 16:41:49 Originally by: keepiru From the Database (courtesy of HippoKing, I claim no credit) Vexor Ishtar Let's play spot the difference kids! How old is this database? The latest QuickFit version shows shipBonusGC2 = 10 for the Ishtar, although the last DB I downloaded has: # grep shipBonusGC2 * dbo_dgmAttributeTypes.csv:"658";"shipBonusGC2";"5";... # grep Ishtar .csv dbo_invTypes.csv:"12.005";"358";"Ishtar";... # grep 12.005 \|grep 658 dbo_dgmTypeAttributes.csv:"12.005";"658";"";"5,00" So this bonus is 5.0 in the latest DB ... (therefore the description of the Ishtar seems to be wrong)
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.12 16:45:00 - [43] Ahahaha stealth nerfs 4tw _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.12 18:14:00 - [44] So they DID indeed nerf Ishtar? Nice! "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" PERVS \o/
White Ronin	Posted - 2006.11.12 18:32:00 - [45] So should the raise the bonus to 10%? Should they touch it at all given the success of the Ishtar? An additional 5%+ per level would seem to make the Ishtar a beast given that it is currently a very tough HAC to start with. So what to do....
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.12 19:18:00 - [46] Originally by: KillmAll187 I have noticed the same thing TBH. Same, when i switched to an ishtar missions seemed to take longer and ceptors NPC's seemed to take a lot longer to kill. I always figured it was me and that everything was just fine. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Vestah Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2006.11.13 11:23:00 - [47] Does this problem affect the other drone ships too? arbitrator curse pilgrim
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:19:00 - [48] Edited by: Yarek Balear on 13/11/2006 12:19:35 Originally by: White Ronin So should the raise the bonus to 10%? Should they touch it at all given the success of the Ishtar? An additional 5%+ per level would seem to make the Ishtar a beast given that it is currently a very tough HAC to start with. So what to do.... Good question... when I first read this I was in uproar, but in the cold light of day I'm not so sure. My argument used to be that it meant that a Domi out-damaged an Ishtar - but then a Geddon out-damages a Zealot... Then thought there was no real reason to fly one other than having a penchant for green, but the same goes for the Zealot/Geddon argument again... [EDIT: I know a zealot isn't green, but it's the pimp-factor I'm referring to really] Although I hate to admit it, it might just be more balanced the way it is
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:00:00 - [49] Originally by: Yarek Balear Edited by: Yarek Balear on 13/11/2006 12:19:35 Originally by: White Ronin So should the raise the bonus to 10%? Should they touch it at all given the success of the Ishtar? An additional 5%+ per level would seem to make the Ishtar a beast given that it is currently a very tough HAC to start with. So what to do.... Good question... when I first read this I was in uproar, but in the cold light of day I'm not so sure. My argument used to be that it meant that a Domi out-damaged an Ishtar - but then a Geddon out-damages a Zealot... Then thought there was no real reason to fly one other than having a penchant for green, but the same goes for the Zealot/Geddon argument again... [EDIT: I know a zealot isn't green, but it's the pimp-factor I'm referring to really] Although I hate to admit it, it might just be more balanced the way it is Ishtar does not have the same damage as a dominix with a 10% bonus as you neglect the 6 high slots. Just like a zealot, Ishtar doesnt do nearly as much damage as its big brother expecially if the dominix is set up for pure damage in which case its one of the 2 most powerfull BS in the game. If you use nos on your dominix this still applies ans a few heavy nos wipe away anything an Ishtar can do.
The Knight Gallente The Crucible Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:32:00 - [50] Originally by: Father Weebles Originally by: Moostang Edited by: Moostang on 04/06/2006 22:11:33Heavy Drone Ops - lvl 3 theres your problem Yup..noticed that also. Fix that and Hoborak Moon (the angel big bounty NPC version for Vengeance) will be calling you daddy. Also, the Ishtar is a much better mission ship than the Domi, hands down. Tech II resists coupled with the same drone DPS as the Domi makes the Ishtar and extremely efficient mission ship. In fact, because it takes less damage than the Domi you don't need to rep as much, which means you've got some spare mid-slots that would have been used for cap recharging...I fit drone damage mods and boost the drone DPS even more.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:30:00 - [51] WTF!!!WTF!!! they nerfed her?!?!?!? AAAARRRGGHHH!!!! what is thiss?!? im speechless...
Alpha Prime Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:32:00 - [52] This is just my opinion. But no matter what tech, NO cruiser should EVER be able to outDPS a frikkin Battleship. And dont gimme that "Hacs are more expensive", cuz we all know why they have reached a skyhigh price. I belive you¦re just whining because you just bought a ship for almost 3x the cost of Domi, and now you find out that the juice was not worth the squeeze. Having Tux fixing the blasterships is like having a blind man teaching you how to drive. Just wont work.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Alpha Prime This is just my opinion. But no matter what tech, NO cruiser should EVER be able to outDPS a frikkin Battleship. And dont gimme that "Hacs are more expensive", cuz we all know why they have reached a skyhigh price. I belive you¦re just whining because you just bought a ship for almost 3x the cost of Domi, and now you find out that the juice was not worth the squeeze. out damage a battle ship? where? ishtar vs dominix? u gotta be joking me. large nos? large blasters? 7 lows with massive hp? ccp its not fair... NOT FAİR AT ALL!!!
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:02:00 - [54] the issue is drone damage as this topic is talking about, if you make it 10% boost to med and light and 5% boost for heavy that will be a perfect fix for 7.5% boost all around, there problem solved
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Vincent Almasy the issue is drone damage as this topic is talking about, if you make it 10% boost to med and light and 5% boost for heavy that will be a perfect fix for 7.5% boost all around, there problem solved gallente bs lvl 5 = %50 drone damage gallente Cruiser lvl 5 = %50 drone damage ishtar never outdamaged dominix...
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:14:00 - [56] Edited by: Vincent Almasy on 13/11/2006 15:16:57 Originally by: Akiman Originally by: Vincent Almasy the issue is drone damage as this topic is talking about, if you make it 10% boost to med and light and 5% boost for heavy that will be a perfect fix for 7.5% boost all around, there problem solved gallente bs lvl 5 = %50 drone damage gallente Cruiser lvl 5 = %50 drone damage ishtar never outdamaged dominix... they are having an issue because the drone damage would match, mostly talking about the heavies being a BS kind of drone, so i offered to make a shift. Now that I look at a vexor it also has the 10% boost so making the HAC form weaker does not make any sence, I withdraw I idea formally stated. Next opion... Use rails on a domi, there damage settled.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:15:00 - [57] Is it a nerf or a bug? any info about this? and thanks to devs for not explaining anything!!!
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:19:00 - [58] Originally by: Vincent Almasy Originally by: Akiman Originally by: Vincent Almasy the issue is drone damage as this topic is talking about, if you make it 10% boost to med and light and 5% boost for heavy that will be a perfect fix for 7.5% boost all around, there problem solved gallente bs lvl 5 = %50 drone damage gallente Cruiser lvl 5 = %50 drone damage ishtar never outdamaged dominix... they are having an issue because the drone damage would match, mostly talking about the heavies being a BS kind of drone, so i offered to make a shift. its normal.There are many frigates using med shield extenders...thoraxes using small blasters...cruisers using 1600 plates...thats the flexibility of the game...if u can fit it there ya go.
The Knight Gallente The Crucible Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Alpha Prime This is just my opinion. But no matter what tech, NO cruiser should EVER be able to outDPS a frikkin Battleship. And dont gimme that "Hacs are more expensive", cuz we all know why they have reached a skyhigh price. I belive you¦re just whining because you just bought a ship for almost 3x the cost of Domi, and now you find out that the juice was not worth the squeeze. The Ishtar can't out damage a Domi, but its twice as good in missions as a Domi. In PvP, the Ishtar is amongst the best of HAC's...just a matter of personal choice on whether or not you want to use it.
Mo Minor	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:25:00 - [60] err sorry guys. this thread is neither about balance issues nor about what deals more OOMPH. its simply and strictly about the fact, that either the ishtars drone bonus OR its description is broken. ----- I don't care if you hate Alt-posting. I hate the behaviour of these forums.
The Knight Gallente The Crucible Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:41:00 - [61] Edited by: The Knight on 13/11/2006 17:41:26 Originally by: Mo Minor err sorry guys. this thread is neither about balance issues nor about what deals more OOMPH. its simply and strictly about the fact, that either the ishtars drone bonus OR its description is broken. Yer right...we're already on page 3 of this thread and we haven't even begun to transition or change the subject into what needs fixed on the Deimos! Gallente slackers!
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:14:00 - [62] A couple points: 1) train the combat drone specialization skill 2) You can't calculate dps from actual hits logged because lots of them won't show up in logs. Shamis
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:27:00 - [63] Have you even read the OP? - combat drone spec is pretty meaningless because it a) does not effect heavy drones and b) even if it would it would effect both ships equally. - the ishar has an 5% (instead 10%) bonus also in the database (links at 2nd page)
Caerula Sanguis Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:53:00 - [64] So CCP basically lied about the ship's effectiveness. I bought Ishtar thinking that it'd have 10% to drone dmg/mining yeild per level. I got scammed by CCP. Do you think I can file a petition for this exploit?
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.14 01:00:00 - [65] I really hope that this nerf wasn't intentional! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.14 06:04:00 - [66] Someone should file a BR =P ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:05:00 - [67] So still we dont know anything and no one explains what is it right? can moderators or devs take a look at this?!?please?!?
Bellatrix VanFeldt	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:31:00 - [68] I'm working toward HAC skills right now to fly an Ishtar so I'd love a response from CCP on this issue.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:02:00 - [69] CCP Please wake up and answer this thread. Especially if it only affects Ishtar and none of the other drone boats this is RIDICULOUS. There... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.15 12:28:00 - [70] Dear CCP... We are not trying to flame anything. We just want to know what actually happened?... Waiting for your reply..
trimdonite	Posted - 2006.11.15 13:02:00 - [71] Originally by: commander tycho People, look at the date of the first post! indeed.. is this still an issue? or has it been sorted?
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.15 13:19:00 - [72] Originally by: trimdonite Originally by: commander tycho People, look at the date of the first post! indeed.. is this still an issue? or has it been sorted? yup. We dont know whats going on about anything but still no support.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:11:00 - [73] Bump. I'd like a confirmation on this, as myself and a buddy plan to be flying Ishtars pretty soon.
Karma Coma	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:28:00 - [74] Bump... waiting for a ccp comment
thoradh E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.15 22:25:00 - [75] Interesting, I'm a Domi driver mostly, excellent drone boat etc, and was thinking its about time to train up for Gall HAC's...there was a dude running a plex the other day, in an Ishtar, and was having mucho trouble with the final stage, like 3-4 times warp in/out to finish it...well, the Domi of doom runs through it as Bricktop would say 'like a hot knife through BUTTAH!!!' Now, how come the Ishtar driver was having so much trouble? This 5% silent nerf of the Ishtar bonus (if it is as it appears) means, no way in hell I'm training for Gall HAC's until the Ishtar gets its stated cruiser bonus i.e. 10% per level (not 5%) and the Deimos gets some mucho needed attention... Whats the story Devs > > Noli illegitimi carborundum! >
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:58:00 - [76] Originally by: thoradh Interesting, I'm a Domi driver mostly, excellent drone boat etc, and was thinking its about time to train up for Gall HAC's...there was a dude running a plex the other day, in an Ishtar, and was having mucho trouble with the final stage, like 3-4 times warp in/out to finish it...well, the Domi of doom runs through it as Bricktop would say 'like a hot knife through BUTTAH!!!' Now, how come the Ishtar driver was having so much trouble? This 5% silent nerf of the Ishtar bonus (if it is as it appears) means, no way in hell I'm training for Gall HAC's until the Ishtar gets its stated cruiser bonus i.e. 10% per level (not 5%) and the Deimos gets some mucho needed attention... Whats the story Devs my thoughts too, the only hac i was interested in was the ishtar....now im having second thoughts
Rastigan	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:37:00 - [77] Same here, I enjoy the Dominix and the Vexor and was working my way to the Ishtar. It doesnt make sense to lower the bonus to 5% since every HAC has the same first set of bonuses and the cruisers they were based on...
Rastigan	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:45:00 - [78] Since the Drone HP and Damage bonuses are linked, has someone tried doing the following. Shooting a drone with a fixed damage weapon, like a rocket and see what the difference is in drone HP (ie, how many rockets it takes to blow a drone up) between the Vexor/Ishtar/and Domi..
Derrios Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:48:00 - [79] coming from a fellow ishtar pilot who has thought the same thing. They are very very similar in damage. ----------------------------------------------- <3 conspiracy theories. Originally by: Omeega We (aAa) could do this - did this? /me hands the DBP paycheck with the small note - Please bbq AXE
FourFourTwo Gallente Wise Guys	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:03:00 - [80] Originally by: tyrol Originally by: thoradh Interesting, I'm a Domi driver mostly, excellent drone boat etc, and was thinking its about time to train up for Gall HAC's...there was a dude running a plex the other day, in an Ishtar, and was having mucho trouble with the final stage, like 3-4 times warp in/out to finish it...well, the Domi of doom runs through it as Bricktop would say 'like a hot knife through BUTTAH!!!' Now, how come the Ishtar driver was having so much trouble? This 5% silent nerf of the Ishtar bonus (if it is as it appears) means, no way in hell I'm training for Gall HAC's until the Ishtar gets its stated cruiser bonus i.e. 10% per level (not 5%) and the Deimos gets some mucho needed attention... Whats the story Devs my thoughts too, the only hac i was interested in was the ishtar....now im having second thoughts I just bought one. I want my money back!
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:36:00 - [81] Bump, we realy need an answer from tux on this one.
Commander Nikolas Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.11.17 03:18:00 - [82] Edited by: Commander Nikolas on 17/11/2006 03:18:25 After reading this thread we ran some tests... your right. The Ishtar had it's damage bonus halved and the wrecking's are alot lower then that of a Domi. If they keep doing this to the other Gallente ships, maybe someone will fly the Hyperion until they train up another races ship skills... Do the Mega next! Maybe forces it's drones to attack itself when they are launched? Another quiet un-explained nerf to Gallente ships... Thank you Tux!
Mandabar Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.11.17 03:19:00 - [83] Ditto.
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:37:00 - [84] Originally by: Mo Minor err sorry guys. this thread is neither about balance issues nor about what deals more OOMPH. its simply and strictly about the fact, that either the ishtars drone bonus OR its description is broken. /signed Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.17 07:22:00 - [85] ****, So this is true.. Odd. You don't exactly pay attention to this kind of details but CCP seem to be pretty good at this kind of crap. How many months did people moan about the thanatos doing 10% damage per level more than all of the other carrier? It went on for months and months till tuxford went "OUPS! We had a description error!". Seriously, i want to know if this is intended, or just another lame kick in the balls for no reason caused by excessive ammounts of moaning about the ishtars in the past. WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
FourFourTwo Gallente Wise Guys	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:15:00 - [86] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski ****, So this is true.. Odd. You don't exactly pay attention to this kind of details but CCP seem to be pretty good at this kind of crap. How many months did people moan about the thanatos doing 10% damage per level more than all of the other carrier? It went on for months and months till tuxford went "OUPS! We had a description error!". Seriously, i want to know if this is intended, or just another lame kick in the balls for no reason caused by excessive ammounts of moaning about the ishtars in the past. If it's intended, then it's nothing short of deceit. If they want to nerf the Ishtar then for God's sake stand up and tell us rather than leading us to believe the ship offers something that it actually does not. No, I think it's just a mistake but it kinda makes you wonder what other mistakes are active and going unnoticed out there. CCP - Fix this immediately! - Please.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:43:00 - [87] It's rather disappointing that CCP doesn't want to answer this. Has anyone filed a petition about the wrong description and got an answer?
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:50:00 - [88] Originally by: Pan Crastus Has anyone filed a petition about the wrong description and got an answer? Please don't start saying that. It's a bug, not a wrong description
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:05:00 - [89] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Pan Crastus Has anyone filed a petition about the wrong description and got an answer? Please don't start saying that. It's a bug, not a wrong description No sympathy for Gallente ships from me, I fly Minmatar (including a Nidhoggur with completely useless bonus in a few weeks). :-/
Tadis Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:29:00 - [90] CCP did you nerf my favourite ship without even sending me a card? Im not happy at you now, your not getting a X-mas card from me! Tbh though... might as well fly 20 x vexors now rather than 1 x ishtar heh. ___________________________________
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:41:00 - [91] As a further test, you might want to see how many (let's choose light missiles) it takes to kill a drone from a dominix, and then see how many for an ishtar. If the 10% damage is infact only 5% on the ishtar, then perhaps the drone hp bonus is incorrect aswell.
Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:00:00 - [92] Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: Sabine Borgia well i use ishtar too and somehow with vespa II the dmg is reall low gainst serpentis in compare to my astartes 5 hobgobs II Thats because Hobgoblins = Thermal, Vespas = Kinetic and Serpentis are weakest to Thermic. Since we're all just waiting for CCP to answer, figured I'd correct this. No. Wrong. Serps have lowest kinetic resists. It makes sense. Gallente guns are hybrids. Hybrids deal more kinetic than thermal. Thermal bonuses on Gallente ships are pretty much nonexistant, so even though it's their racial damage type, they really don't show it much. If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a better browser.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:40:00 - [93] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 17/11/2006 16:45:22 Hmmm, interesting. Could we please get some dev input on this, is +5% or +10% what it should really be? If it's now +5%, has it always been that way or has there been a stealth nerf? Oh well, maybe the prices of Ishtars will drop a bit now. In any case, could we please get a fix on this ship so that the info agrees with the actual stats (whatever they are)? Added: if it really is +5%, then I see the Myrmidon in a new light. I still don't think it's very good, but it might not be quite as crappy as I thought compared to the Ishtar. We'd have 4 heavies with +50% damage bonus vs 5 heavies with +25% damage bonus (with max skills), making it 6 vs 6.25 "effective" drones... Ishtar still more drone DPS, but not that much, and Myrmidon with more gun firepower.
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:52:00 - [94] Yes please some official word on this.
Varia Net	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:21:00 - [95] Being Caldari, I trained Gallente ship skills up to battleship, to fly the Rattlesnake. I already had training for Cerberus; and was considering Gallente cruiser lvl 5, for an Ishtar, as it appeared superior, compared to Dominix. I must say that I won't be doing it now, and actually do like the actual 5% compared to Domi's 10%. It just didn't make sense that a HAC would do as much drone damage as a bs, while having much better resists. -Assuming that drones (and nosferatus) are much more important than guns to droneboats.- Noone complains about the Cerberus, yet it doesn't have the dps output of a Raven or CNR. The resists and speed are their main strength, while the dps output isn't exactly low either. My 2c.
Commander Nikolas Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:42:00 - [96] It needs to be put back to 10%... it has the drone DPS of the Domi... but the Domi can fit heavy NOS, Electron II's... you ever try to put guns on an Ishtar? This is a low blow and needs to be fixed.
Mandabar Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:44:00 - [97] Originally by: Varia Net Being Caldari, I trained Gallente ship skills up to battleship, to fly the Rattlesnake. I already had training for Cerberus; and was considering Gallente cruiser lvl 5, for an Ishtar, as it appeared superior, compared to Dominix. I must say that I won't be doing it now, and actually do like the actual 5% compared to Domi's 10%. It just didn't make sense that a HAC would do as much drone damage as a bs, while having much better resists. -Assuming that drones (and nosferatus) are much more important than guns to droneboats.- Noone complains about the Cerberus, yet it doesn't have the dps output of a Raven or CNR. The resists and speed are their main strength, while the dps output isn't exactly low either. My 2c. The Problem with this comment is, the vexor (t1 version of Ishtar (if you really didn' know...)) has a 10% bonus.. that is in effect.
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:20:00 - [98] Originally by: Miklas Laces Yes please some official word on this. Its clearly a bug, no way would this have gone unnoticed for so long. You expect a dev reply to simple bugs now? Bug report ftw
Iroquois	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:27:00 - [99] Originally by: Nir Originally by: Miklas Laces Yes please some official word on this. Its clearly a bug, no way would this have gone unnoticed for so long. You expect a dev reply to simple bugs now? Bug report ftw If a dev happens to read this thread, then yeah, I expect him to comment. How fricken hard can it be to level with the people who pay for this service? Bug reports or not, Devs sometimes reply in many threads in this forum.
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:39:00 - [100] ^^^ I just cringe everytime I see a thread with the suffix "OMG TUXFORDZZZZ READ DIZ NOWWWW!!!!11" or similar. Its getting to the point where everyone expects a one on one with a developer of their choice. I apologize for coming across so anal. :p
Commander Nikolas Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:51:00 - [101] I would expect soomone who knows what is going on... to explain what is going on (i.e. devs) when there are questions about game content... Honestly given how much CCP explains about game mechanics you can hardly tell what is a bug/error and what is intentional these days. Hyperion... could have swore to god when I saw it's stats it was an error... Then the devs said... "no, that is the ship less than a megathron but twice as expensive"
Vladimir Norkoff Crimson Knights Trade Federation	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Mandabar The Problem with this comment is, the vexor (t1 version of Ishtar (if you really didn' know...)) has a 10% bonus.. that is in effect. Yes, but a Vexor can't carry a full complement of 5 Heavy Drones... Plus another full complement of 5 Heavy Drones... Plus a full complement of 5 Medium Drones... Plus another full complement of 5 Medium Drones... And.. plus a full complement of 5 Light Drones... See a slight difference there? Something about 375m3 drone bay vs a mere 75m3??.. Small balance issue? Maybe?
Rastigan	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:55:00 - [103] Yes, its called the third and fourth bonus, every HAC has them, the Ishtars happens to be +50m3 drone capacity per level. This is not about what you think is balance, this is about a broken part of the game, which people would like a dev response to. Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: Mandabar The Problem with this comment is, the vexor (t1 version of Ishtar (if you really didn' know...)) has a 10% bonus.. that is in effect. Yes, but a Vexor can't carry a full complement of 5 Heavy Drones... Plus another full complement of 5 Heavy Drones... Plus a full complement of 5 Medium Drones... Plus another full complement of 5 Medium Drones... And.. plus a full complement of 5 Light Drones... See a slight difference there? Something about 375m3 drone bay vs a mere 75m3??.. Small balance issue? Maybe?
Vladimir Norkoff Crimson Knights Trade Federation	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:59:00 - [104] Originally by: Rastigan This is not about what you think is balance, this is about a broken part of the game, which people would like a dev response to. Hmmm... Enlighten me, please.. What is the broken part?.. Is it that a HAC only gets a 5% bonus to drone damage, hp, etc to it's battleship size drone bay?.. Or is it the fact that they put in a stealth nerf and we are just finding out about it now?.. Note - I'm currently training up for Ishtar atm, so it's not like I'm against Gallente.. But honestly, a HAC should NOT do BS class damage..
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.17 23:30:00 - [105] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: Rastigan This is not about what you think is balance, this is about a broken part of the game, which people would like a dev response to. Hmmm... Enlighten me, please.. What is the broken part?.. Is it that a HAC only gets a 5% bonus to drone damage, hp, etc to it's battleship size drone bay?.. Or is it the fact that they put in a stealth nerf and we are just finding out about it now?.. Note - I'm currently training up for Ishtar atm, so it's not like I'm against Gallente.. But honestly, a HAC should NOT do BS class damage.. Well that's certainly a nice opinion you have there, unfortunately it's fully irrelevant. Two reason why: 1) you don't matter 2) the ship bonus is displayed as 10%, it is not recieving its full damage bonus, it is thusly broken
Vladimir Norkoff Crimson Knights Trade Federation	Posted - 2006.11.17 23:53:00 - [106] Originally by: nexvis Well that's certainly a nice opinion you have there, unfortunately it's fully irrelevant. Two reason why: 1) you don't matter 2) the ship bonus is displayed as 10%, it is not recieving its full damage bonus, it is thusly broken Well thankyou for your very valid, and (might I add) very well thought out response!.. I particularly like the way you so skillfully and logically rebutted my comments.. Furthermore, your ability to so succintly and accurately answer the question at hand truly amazes me.. You sir, are an orator and debator of the top rank.. I bow to your wisdom and excellence in all things.. /mockery So to sum up your idiocy, you are basically saying that you are upset that the description says 10% bonus when in actuality it is only 5%, and thus a cruiser is not doing battleship class damage with a battleship size dronebay??.. That about sum it up ace?.. That's great.. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your definition of the word "broken"?.. CCP stealth nerfed us, get used to it.. Throwing a pouty little tantrum isn't going to help..
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:12:00 - [107] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: nexvis Well that's certainly a nice opinion you have there, unfortunately it's fully irrelevant. Two reason why: 1) you don't matter 2) the ship bonus is displayed as 10%, it is not recieving its full damage bonus, it is thusly broken Well thankyou for your very valid, and (might I add) very well thought out response!.. I particularly like the way you so skillfully and logically rebutted my comments.. Furthermore, your ability to so succintly and accurately answer the question at hand truly amazes me.. You sir, are an orator and debator of the top rank.. I bow to your wisdom and excellence in all things.. /mockery So to sum up your idiocy, you are basically saying that you are upset that the description says 10% bonus when in actuality it is only 5%, and thus a cruiser is not doing battleship class damage with a battleship size dronebay??.. That about sum it up ace?.. That's great.. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your definition of the word "broken"?.. CCP stealth nerfed us, get used to it.. Throwing a pouty little tantrum isn't going to help.. classic either the description or the bonus is not correct, this isn't a difficult concept to wrap your dense little head around. Your opinion on the damage output of a HAC has no bearing in this discussion, get over yourself; as I said, you and your asinine little opinion simply do not matter. Either the description or the bonus needs to be changed. /debate
Vladimir Norkoff Crimson Knights Trade Federation	Posted - 2006.11.18 01:22:00 - [108] Originally by: nexvis classic either the description or the bonus is not correct, this isn't a difficult concept to wrap your dense little head around. Your opinion on the damage output of a HAC has no bearing in this discussion, get over yourself; as I said, you and your asinine little opinion simply do not matter. Either the description or the bonus needs to be changed. /debate LOL.. Got some hate issues there? Sorry if I popped you, or sorry if you're just an angry kid.. It's amazing, you're basically agreeing to everything I'm saying - the bonus is no longer what is listed and CCP stealth nerfed us.. Not quite sure why that requires the personal flamage, but whatever.. Sure it'd be nice to have CCP change the description from 10% to the 5% it actually is.. And it woulda been nice if they told us up front.. But it certainly isn't something to get overly fired up about.. And it's certainly a change that made sense.. P.S. You can update your corp and alliance info fairly easily.. I'm sure you're not the type of person to hide behind an alt..
Rastigan Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.18 01:45:00 - [109] Before you compare the Ishtar to the Dominix, you do know the Ishtar can only mount 3 turrets , compared to 6 turrets for the Dominix, heck even the T1 Vexor can mount 4 turrets. Not to mention the CPU and Powergrid of the Ishtar is craptastic at best. The Ishtar is much more drone dependant on damage than the Dominix.
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.18 02:13:00 - [110] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: nexvis classic either the description or the bonus is not correct, this isn't a difficult concept to wrap your dense little head around. Your opinion on the damage output of a HAC has no bearing in this discussion, get over yourself; as I said, you and your asinine little opinion simply do not matter. Either the description or the bonus needs to be changed. /debate LOL.. Got some hate issues there? Sorry if I popped you, or sorry if you're just an angry kid.. It's amazing, you're basically agreeing to everything I'm saying - the bonus is no longer what is listed and CCP stealth nerfed us.. Not quite sure why that requires the personal flamage, but whatever.. Sure it'd be nice to have CCP change the description from 10% to the 5% it actually is.. And it woulda been nice if they told us up front.. But it certainly isn't something to get overly fired up about.. And it's certainly a change that made sense.. P.S. You can update your corp and alliance info fairly easily.. I'm sure you're not the type of person to hide behind an alt.. Actually I've never heard of you nor your corp. Remember that thing about you not mattering? You asked me to reevaluate my definition of 'broken,' citing the ship's damage output as your reasoning, all while missing the entire point of my post with the eloquence and self-satisfaction of a fat chick eating a stick of butter. Thus, the "personal flamage." And by the way, if I could log my main in, I wouldn't be posting with an alt. Many thanks to the powerful software backbone of the eve-o forums.
Vladimir Norkoff Crimson Knights Trade Federation	Posted - 2006.11.18 03:21:00 - [111] Originally by: nexvis Rabble rabble rabble. Nexvis, stop being an angry little troll.. Pretty visual imagery is not an adequate defense for your point.. Your point being that the description says 10% bonus and you think it should be 10%.. You offer no other reasons than "it says 10%".. CCP apparently disagrees.. Deal with it.. Originally by: Rastigan Before you compare the Ishtar to the Dominix, you do know the Ishtar can only mount 3 turrets , compared to 6 turrets for the Dominix, heck even the T1 Vexor can mount 4 turrets. Not to mention the CPU and Powergrid of the Ishtar is craptastic at best. The Ishtar is much more drone dependant on damage than the Dominix. Yep, and those 3 turrets usually end up being small rails/blasters (ie. useless) thanks to the craptastic grid as you already pointed out.. (And we'll ignore the fact that the Vexor has the same exact problem despite it's 4 turret slots).. The Ishtar is absolutely dependent on drones for damage. No argument there.. And no, obviously it's not going to do the same damage as a full gank-fitted Domi with 6x T2 Neutrons etc.. But most Domis aren't fitted full-gank.. Most like to live thru fights, so you end up seeing Dual 250s or ions mixed with nos, and stuff like armor and reppers in the lows.. So most domis currently still do a good proportion of their damage from drones (about 400 dps from drones and 200 dps from guns in most common set-ups - max skills).. If an Ishtar were getting the 10% bonus too, it'd come in on the very low end of battleship level damage, just without the big guns.. With a 5% bonus the Ishtar still comes in on the very high side of HAC damage.. Downside being that drones can be destroyed..
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.18 03:54:00 - [112] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Nexvis, stop being an angry little troll.. Pretty visual imagery is not an adequate defense for your point.. Your point being that the description says 10% bonus and you think it should be 10%.. You offer no other reasons than "it says 10%".. CCP apparently disagrees.. Deal with it.. My god, how can you be so entirely oblivious? My point, again, is that either the description or the bonus need to be changed. 10% is displayed, 5% is given, entirely regardless of what you think it should be to be balanced, there is an error that needs to be fixed. Be it the description, or the bonus. I never once said what I thought the bonus should be, because that has no bearing on this thread. All I said is that it's not recieving it's full damage bonus, which is displayed as 10%. It doesn't matter, not one little bit, what you think CCP thinks, it's not recieving the displayed bonus.
Morbain	Posted - 2006.11.18 04:25:00 - [113] The bickering isn't helping the issue. The Ishtar is stated as having a 10% bonus. In reality is is shown to have a 5% bonus. Either that is an error in the description or that is an error in the stat. Either way we, and possibly CCP are being mislead by this. To get this post looked at by the devs requires you to stop bickering and state the facts. Don't bother responding to my post, I will likely not read this thread again. <!-- STOP READING HERE IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT --> My personal belief is that the Ishtar is a tech 2, "completely dedicated drone carrier," and therefore should be treated as such. The Dominix is a battleship, a tech 1 and also the only place in the description where it mentions drones is the bonus. From that I conclude, my opinion here, that the Ishtar is a drone carrier and deserves the drone bonus... Plus I want one. /greed
FraXy Caldari Devils Rejects	Posted - 2006.11.18 06:05:00 - [114] Good thing i sold my Ishtar because i couldn`t use T2 drones. No wait, /emote looks at Drone Interface 5 that is 60% done....... ERROR!!! Can we please get a Dev confirmation on the Ishtar or do i have to swim over to Iceland and knock on ur doors at 4am? This is my lazy attempt to make an uber-signature, please go away!
FraXy Caldari Devils Rejects	Posted - 2006.11.18 06:07:00 - [115] Originally by: Rastigan Before you compare the Ishtar to the Dominix, you do know the Ishtar can only mount 3 turrets , compared to 6 turrets for the Dominix, heck even the T1 Vexor can mount 4 turrets. Not to mention the CPU and Powergrid of the Ishtar is craptastic at best. The Ishtar is much more drone dependant on damage than the Dominix. Not to mention if u actually are looking to fit a tank fitting guns is like fitting Shield Power Relays on a Claymore with 3 gang-links and XL II fitted. This is my lazy attempt to make an uber-signature, please go away!
Justice Bringer Minmatar United Univers	Posted - 2006.11.18 10:46:00 - [116] At the end of the day all that matters is what the description states, and not people's opinions on what the descriptions should be interpreted as. From the Vexor the description states: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield per skill level. From the Ishtar the description says: Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. From the Vexor Navy Issue it says: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield per skill level. From the Guardian Vexor it states: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and +1 extra Drone controlled per level. This is not my opinion, these are the descriptions as I've copied them from the different ships. They all share the same hull design and after Cold War patch the only one that remained unchained was the Guardian Vexor in its ability to field the extra drone. The 3 other Vexor class ships all received the increase to drone damage and hitpoints, and you will take note that the Ishtar doesn't receive the mining drone yield. Now that would be a waste of a ship . So for those people that think that the Ishtar out damages the Dominix, then you're missing the point. Dominix has 6 large turret slots to Ishtar 3 med turret slots. So (6 large + 5 heavy) >>> (3 med + 5 heavy) period. Prsonally I don't mind if the actual damage is only half that of the Vexor, but then they should change the description and re-instate the +1 drone because as it stands the Ishtar puts out less damage with its medium drones than the Vexor which is wrong. If that's not the case, then the damage done by the drones should do exactly as it says on the tin. Consider this: Moa: Special Ability: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range per level and 5% bonus to shield resistance per level. Eagle: Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range per level and 5% bonus to shield resistances per level. Now consider the scenario where the Eagle says it has the 5% resists and the 10% optimal, but actually only has 2.5% resists and 5% optimal. Now where would you all sit with that one? Cerberus - Caracal, Zealot - Omen, Deimos - Thorax.........!!!!!!!! Justice
FourFourTwo Gallente Wise Guys	Posted - 2006.11.18 11:20:00 - [117] Originally by: Justice Bringer At the end of the day all that matters is what the description states, and not people's opinions on what the descriptions should be interpreted as. From the Vexor the description states: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield per skill level. From the Ishtar the description says: Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. From the Vexor Navy Issue it says: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield per skill level. From the Guardian Vexor it states: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and +1 extra Drone controlled per level. This is not my opinion, these are the descriptions as I've copied them from the different ships. They all share the same hull design and after Cold War patch the only one that remained unchained was the Guardian Vexor in its ability to field the extra drone. The 3 other Vexor class ships all received the increase to drone damage and hitpoints, and you will take note that the Ishtar doesn't receive the mining drone yield. Now that would be a waste of a ship . So for those people that think that the Ishtar out damages the Dominix, then you're missing the point. Dominix has 6 large turret slots to Ishtar 3 med turret slots. So (6 large + 5 heavy) >>> (3 med + 5 heavy) period. Prsonally I don't mind if the actual damage is only half that of the Vexor, but then they should change the description and re-instate the +1 drone because as it stands the Ishtar puts out less damage with its medium drones than the Vexor which is wrong. If that's not the case, then the damage done by the drones should do exactly as it says on the tin. Consider this: Moa: Special Ability: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range per level and 5% bonus to shield resistance per level. Eagle: Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range per level and 5% bonus to shield resistances per level. Now consider the scenario where the Eagle says it has the 5% resists and the 10% optimal, but actually only has 2.5% resists and 5% optimal. Now where would you all sit with that one? Cerberus - Caracal, Zealot - Omen, Deimos - Thorax.........!!!!!!!! Justice Amen. - Fix it now!!
Demoria Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.18 11:20:00 - [118] CCP scammed me!! ------------------------------------------ i am the flying moo ham edd
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:15:00 - [119] BTW., this is another fine example why the part of the ship descriptions with the bonuses needs to be generated from the actual bonus values and types in the DB and not hand-written ...
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:22:00 - [120] Originally by: Justice Bringer So for those people that think that the Ishtar out damages the Dominix, then you're missing the point. Dominix has 6 large turret slots to Ishtar 3 med turret slots. So (6 large + 5 heavy) >>> (3 med + 5 heavy) period. Prsonally I don't mind if the actual damage is only half that of the Vexor, but then they should change the description and re-instate the +1 drone because as it stands the Ishtar puts out less damage with its medium drones than the Vexor which is wrong. besides, whoever heard of a HAC doing battleship class damage? Hell, I have T1 cruisers in my hangar that outdamage the ishtar by a significant margin. /me hides the miracle that is the 600dps gank-ion thorax
Valerian	Posted - 2006.11.18 14:31:00 - [121] Does this also affect other drone boats (Curse-Pilgrim)?
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 15:12:00 - [122] pffft come back when you have done a real statistical test. your 2 tests show a laughable close to 10% difference between them. Come back when you have compiled a Db of a few thousand hits.
dralid Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.18 15:51:00 - [123] Devs please can you test this and let us know? -- Do YOU know, the Whirlwind? HERE
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:05:00 - [124] Originally by: Max Hardcase pffft come back when you have done a real statistical test. your 2 tests show a laughable close to 10% difference between them. Come back when you have compiled a Db of a few thousand hits. It's all fun to look though on the forums and all. Unfortunately for you, you just looked like an *****. You only need 2 hits, if you manage to get 2 wrecking hits. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:05:00 - [125] A better test would be 5 light drones to a plated BS with TPs on it moving at 0 ms. Measure time from start armor damage to 0% armor.
Commander Nikolas Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:31:00 - [126] Alright here are a list of replies to the following questions: "Do more tests... test this... test that" All you need to do is compair 2 wrecking hits! End of story... Read farjungs earlier post in this thread.... "Why should a cruiser do BS damage??" The Ishtar is NOT the Dominix... Stop posting about this... Even with 10% Drone damage it does not do BATTLESHIP DAMAGE... Stop posting this... The Ishtar with the drone bonus barely does HAC damage (400DPS... compaired to other HACs 500-700DPS)... When you cut the bonus in half that drops dwon from 400DPS to around 300DPS making in the weakest grid, hp, cpu, and dps HAC out there... so stop posting this...
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.19 11:43:00 - [127] the next time i'm on TQ i'm gunna test, thn offcially bug report this... I suggest you do the same. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
RoDs84	Posted - 2006.11.19 19:27:00 - [128] Just checked and confirmed the bug of the Ishtar drone bonus myself, and then sent a bug report about it. Acolyte got 69.9 wrecking damage to 0% resist shield of a battlecruiser of my friend, where my drone int. is 4 and combat drone int. is 4. 69.9 / 7.5 (acolyte EM base damage) / 1.15 (acolyte damage multiplier) / 1.2 (combat drone int) / 1.8 (drone int) / 3 (wrecking hit) = 1.25 ( 5 x 5% ) where it should obviously be 1.5 ( 5 x 10% ) since cruiser level is already 5. I think they will correct this one with the next minor patch.
Mr Bondy Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 22:44:00 - [129] After reading the majority, and browsing the rest of this thread, and seeing many arguments for/against the ishtar haveing the same drone DPS as a domi it seems one argument has not come up. If i remember correctly the ishtar (pre patch) could use a maximum of 15 heavy drones = same as the dominix. Surely this is a significant indication that this amount of damage was both considered and factored into the ship by the Devs to maintain balance. So if it was origially supposed to have the same drone dps as a domi, then one could conclude that the bonus post-patch should remain the same as the dominix I for one feel that this is allmost certainly a bug and not just a re-balence MrB - appologies if this point has been raised before
Caerula Sanguis Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:31:00 - [130] Edited by: Caerula Sanguis on 21/11/2006 19:31:39 Bump, for the love of drones. Has any GM talk about this issue? Ishtar only gets 5% drone dmg and hp ~!
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.22 01:02:00 - [131] Originally by: Commander Thrawn just to make sure, are you fitting blaster on these ships or just nos? Irrelevant for the point of the post. To sum it up for those too dense to read the whole post: Using nothing but drones, an Ishtar should do the same damage as a domi with BS level 5. But an NPC he has no problems killing with domi (using only drones) he cant kill in Ishtar. THAT would be a huge problem, if it wasnt just some fluke thing. Now, one possible explanation for this, is that some NPCs go into a sort of "uber tank" mode in certain situations. For example, the Strain mother (final boss in lvl 5 drone complexes) goes into insane tanking mode if any hostile gets within 50k or so of it, including drones. Im not familiar with the NPC you said you were trying to down, but its possible it has a similar effect, but maybe only dependent on ship range (so maybe you got too close in ishtar and triggered uber tank, but in the domi you never did because of its slower speed ?) ?? This signature space for rent
RoDs84	Posted - 2006.11.22 01:04:00 - [132] bump, I'm sure this is an in-game fault, the description is true this time (unlike Thanathos' situtation :) If admins see this, I'm sure it will get fixed asap with a minor patch.
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.11.22 20:51:00 - [133] would be really nice to get a dev response on this...
Scarlett Yo'Mason	Posted - 2006.11.23 01:30:00 - [134] Bump for GM response?
Mara Fenris	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:23:00 - [135] Edited by: Mara Fenris on 23/11/2006 17:23:24 if i remember correctly the ishtar got the 10% damage bonus to compensate for the halved drone bay. half drone bay but tougher and stronger drones. If they stealth nerf it to only 5% then the current ishtar would be a lot weaker than the previous one.
RoDs84	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:14:00 - [136] I think its out of question they stealth nerf it, its a bug, since Vexor (tech1 version) also has the 10% bonus as well as an Amarr recon, on the drones. Ishtar is a drone oriented HAC, with avarage (not all skilss maxed out) DPS of 420, which is not to be considered high with long time skill training for T2 heavies. Btw, has anyone tested Vexor if it got the same bug, or Curse and Pilgrim if they realy have the true 10% bonus?
Rastigan Caldari Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:40:00 - [137] I got an in game response to my petition, it was a canned message saying blah blah blah we have our hands full on Kali, is your petition really that important ? Wow, things are looking pretty good for the Ishtar
Havegrillen	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:50:00 - [138] Originally by: Rastigan I got an in game response to my petition, it was a canned message saying blah blah blah we have our hands full on Kali, is your petition really that important ? Wow, things are looking pretty good for the Ishtar thats utterly bs if they give you such a response, it doesnt take 5-20 people to look into this issue, just 1 person to correct the database issue if this truely is a bug. same person can test if this truely is the case and multiple people have bug reported it, so whats going on there, or is it just an auto response from the customer support? :P /havegrillen
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:57:00 - [139] Maybe after kali has been out for a couple weeks we'll have more luck with a responce. Seems to me all we need is a dev to look at the appropriate place in the code and change a 5 to a 10. When I filed my bug report, I did not specify it as a Kali bug so I suspect that was a good way to fast track it into the recycle bin. -Bart
Matthew Trakand	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:15:00 - [140] I thought my ishtar was a bit low on DPS. I switched to it from a domi expecting a 1.5/1.4 increase in damage, yet it felt like less. (I am using these ships for isk making atm) Cant wait for my free 1.5/1.25 damage bonus For all those ***** trolls that say the isktar shouldnt do BS damage, it never will. It can hardly fit 3 medium e-blasters, whereas a domi can easily fit 6 heavy n-blasters, 6 d-250mm rails, or 6 mega e-blasters. BTW, the drone damage of the isktar is ~485 DPS with max skill. Other HACs do that with their primary weapon, so quit your *** ***ing and gimme my %10 bonus per level!
RoDs84	Posted - 2006.11.25 13:57:00 - [141] I assumed it will be fixed with Kali 1, but seems to be later, hope it won't take long...
Zubus Amarr CCCP INC	Posted - 2006.11.26 06:45:00 - [142] Fear not ishtar lovers, just got back from sisi, and can confirm that the bonus is now 10%. Ogre 2's against a tanked abaddon corpie, myrmidon and domi (BC and BS both @4) got 89.6 wrecking, ishtar got 95.8. Now i know that's probably not the best way of testing, shoulda used EM drones against shields, but still, the ishtar seems to get it's 10%/lvl bonus as per description!
Caerula Sanguis Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.11.27 20:08:00 - [143] Darn it, GMs. It's one thing to hide your mistake, but if you have fixed it, at least state in the patch notes~!
Sir Howard Gallente Infinity Aeronautics EntroPraetorian Aegis	Posted - 2006.11.27 21:20:00 - [144] I'm going to assume that since we are talking about the 10% bonus to drones dmg and hitpoints that this not only effects the Ishtar and Domi but also the Vexor....which i currently fly. "This is a bad idea wrapped in a horrible plan and shipped in a retarded box"
Havegrillen	Posted - 2006.11.29 05:48:00 - [145] nothing wrong with the vexor or dominix, the "correct" damage bonus is left out on the ishtar :)
Havegrillen	Posted - 2006.11.29 05:48:00 - [146] nothing wrong with the vexor or dominix, the "correct" damage bonus is left out on the ishtar :)
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.29 05:51:00 - [147] Originally by: Havegrillen nothing wrong with the vexor or dominix, the "correct" damage bonus is left out on the ishtar :) Actually as of 3 hours ago it there is nothing wrong with the Ishtar either. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.29 05:51:00 - [148] Originally by: Havegrillen nothing wrong with the vexor or dominix, the "correct" damage bonus is left out on the ishtar :) Actually as of 3 hours ago it there is nothing wrong with the Ishtar either. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Havegrillen	Posted - 2006.11.29 06:25:00 - [149] joy! , then i havent wasted weeks of training
Vestah Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2006.11.29 08:07:00 - [150] Originally by: Justice Bringer The 3 other Vexor class ships all received the increase to drone damage and hitpoints, and you will take note that the Ishtar doesn't receive the mining drone yield. Now that would be a waste of a ship . My mining Ishtar dreams are crushed.
Percolator	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:52:00 - [151] Perhaps the application of a the Domi NOS versus the Ishtar NOS is affecting the calculations? If I recall (and I could very well be wrong)... I seem to remember reading somewhere that NOSing an enemy NPC will lower its tank, instead of killing its ability to use its weapon systems. Again, I could be wrong, but I know that information had to have come from somewhere. I'm too retarded to think of that on my own. Percolator
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.12.09 15:42:00 - [152] Looks like this stealth nerf was stealth revoked, according to http://eve.coldfront.net/db/search?q=ishtar (now updated with Revelation data export), the " shipBonusGC2 10" indicates that the drone bonus is +10% per level again.
Kiaara Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.10 01:14:00 - [153] Originally by: Mr Bondy After reading the majority, and browsing the rest of this thread, and seeing many arguments for/against the ishtar haveing the same drone DPS as a domi it seems one argument has not come up. If i remember correctly the ishtar (pre patch) could use a maximum of 15 heavy drones = same as the dominix. Surely this is a significant indication that this amount of damage was both considered and factored into the ship by the Devs to maintain balance. So if it was origially supposed to have the same drone dps as a domi, then one could conclude that the bonus post-patch should remain the same as the dominix I for one feel that this is allmost certainly a bug and not just a re-balence MrB - appologies if this point has been raised before It's been a year, and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how a 10% bonus is supposed to give equivalent damage to the way things were before RMR. 15 drones' damage mashed into 5 means each drone is doing 3x damage (200% total bonus). 5x the 20% bonus from drone interfacing is 100%, add in 5x the 10% bonus on dominix for BS V is 50%, comes to 150% bonus for drones. So unless there's a hidden bonus somewhere, the droneboats're already 16.7% of their old best and this whole discussion is just moot :p
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.12.10 02:24:00 - [154] Originally by: Kiaara junk 21.5=3 it's not 100% + 50%. It's +100% +50%, which is 2*1.5=3= +200% Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
MellaRinn Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.15 03:39:00 - [155] Originally by: Pan Crastus Looks like this stealth nerf was stealth revoked, according to http://eve.coldfront.net/db/search?q=ishtar (now updated with Revelation data export), the " shipBonusGC2 10" indicates that the drone bonus is +10% per level again. JOY OF LIFE!!! you win eve today for me, mate :D Click
Caerula Sanguis Stellar Nursery Society	Posted - 2006.12.21 00:21:00 - [156] bump for drones sake.
Nybbas Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:20:00 - [157] has anyone tested this yet then? to see if it REALLY is fixed?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:55:00 - [158] Originally by: Kiaara It's been a year, and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how a 10% bonus is supposed to give equivalent damage to the way things were before RMR. 15 drones' damage mashed into 5 means each drone is doing 3x damage (200% total bonus). 5x the 20% bonus from drone interfacing is 100%, add in 5x the 10% bonus on dominix for BS V is 50%, comes to 150% bonus for drones. So unless there's a hidden bonus somewhere, the droneboats're already 16.7% of their old best and this whole discussion is just moot :p D = RMR drone damage Old: 15 x D New: 5 x D x 2 (= +100% due to Drone Interfacing) x 1.5 (= BS5 on Domi) = 15 x D
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:58:00 - [159] Originally by: Nybbas has anyone tested this yet then? to see if it REALLY is fixed? It's easy to test. Take an Ishtar and a Curator (EM sentry drone). Shoot a buddy (with 0% EM resists and in 0.0 please) in the drone's optimal range until he sees a wrecking hit in his log. Divide the damage in this hit by 3 => this is the "normal" per hit damage of the drone. Verify that the bonus works with Quickfit, or compare with a Vexor.
Neon Neya	Posted - 2006.12.22 08:43:00 - [160] It's fixed after Kali patch.

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