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Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.18 16:51:00 - [421] Originally by: Kunming LMAO thats the most flawed logic I ever saw on these forums! No, you guys supporting this missile-amarr win, the rest of us lose by having half of the T2 ships of our race become useless and unenjoyable. You are kinda contradicting yourself here... The missile-khanid supporters win, yes. But you don't lose if Khanid ships become useless and unenjoyable because they already ARE useless and unenjoyable (Unless you are one of those people who enjoys flying a ship simply because noone else does, and then you should not be talking in a ship change debate imho) Originally by: Kunming I definetly dont want to see khanid ships become caldari-copycats, they should have their own unique concept and thats certainly not missile spamming armor tanker. The khanid I have in mind has decent drone bay, split weapon systems, no dmg bonus to either system, equal ammounts of mids and lows with EW bonus, decent speed, stronger shields than armor etc; and I dont argue the concept doesnt need tweaking, but Amarr are already too predictable and have too little access to EW, the missile using armor tanker is not much different than the laser using armor tanker and doesnt give amarr the vestality it desperetly needs. To understand what I mean, think about the curse, you can nano it, you can passive shield tank it with missiles, you can nos-drone-EW, you can active shield tank sustained with NOS and do dmg with drones, etc etc. Split weapons do. not. work. Period. And not because of ship bonuses, but because of damage mods. Give me damage mods that affect two weapon systems at the same time and I will embrace your split weapon slots. Otherwise, please go away with split weapons. And the Curse only works because it gets a +50% drone bonus. So you want every khanid ship to get that? How is gallentefying them better than caldarifying? I am sorry, but just repeating your arguments does not make them any more valid. Not to mention the opponents here don't seem to be a minority, they seem to be a singularity :P --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
Dopefish Amarr Quad and Fish	Posted - 2007.02.18 16:58:00 - [422] Originally by: Kunming The khanid I have in mind has decent drone bay, split weapon systems, no dmg bonus to either system, equal ammounts of mids and lows with EW bonus, decent speed, stronger shields than armor etc; and I dont argue the concept doesnt need tweaking, but Amarr are already too predictable and have too little access to EW, the missile using armor tanker is not much different than the laser using armor tanker and doesnt give amarr the vestality it desperetly needs. Your vision makes me think minmatar. Amarr are the brute force race, we dont need versatility. Where brute force is not enough we need more brute force.
Nylian Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:20:00 - [423] First time I've seen this post... and after having read the devblog it gave me goosebumps. I <3 Amarr, I <3 the sacrileage... and I even thought about putting missiles on it instead of lasers anyway! Totally agree on all points EXCEPT the cap bonus to lasers. Ya'll have said, and know it... eve is about specialization, cap use bonus on a Khanid missile ship seems a bit bass ackwards imo. (And in the opinion of others :) ) wewt! now I'll actually have more than 50k sp in missiles!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:27:00 - [424] Originally by: Nylian First time I've seen this post... and after having read the devblog it gave me goosebumps. I <3 Amarr, I <3 the sacrileage... and I even thought about putting missiles on it instead of lasers anyway! Totally agree on all points EXCEPT the cap bonus to lasers. Ya'll have said, and know it... eve is about specialization, cap use bonus on a Khanid missile ship seems a bit bass ackwards imo. (And in the opinion of others :) ) wewt! now I'll actually have more than 50k sp in missiles! Absent halving the cap use on lasers, it ensures that any free highs can still be fitted with extra turrets if the user so pleases. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Mr Peanut STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.18 20:55:00 - [425] Edited by: Mr Peanut on 18/02/2007 20:52:09 Originally by: Nylian First time I've seen this post... and after having read the devblog it gave me goosebumps. I <3 Amarr, I <3 the sacrileage... and I even thought about putting missiles on it instead of lasers anyway! Totally agree on all points EXCEPT the cap bonus to lasers. Ya'll have said, and know it... eve is about specialization, cap use bonus on a Khanid missile ship seems a bit bass ackwards imo. (And in the opinion of others :) ) wewt! now I'll actually have more than 50k sp in missiles! We have to have that cap bonus, unless we change the T1 variants of the ships, as well. In EVE, T2 ships have the skill-based bonuses for their T1 variant as well as new skill-based bonuses that are unique to themselves. Basically, unless you change the Maller, you're not removing that bonus from the Sacrilege. The same goes for punisher>vengeance, etc.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.18 21:27:00 - [426] Originally by: Mr Peanut Edited by: Mr Peanut on 18/02/2007 20:52:09 Originally by: Nylian First time I've seen this post... and after having read the devblog it gave me goosebumps. I <3 Amarr, I <3 the sacrileage... and I even thought about putting missiles on it instead of lasers anyway! Totally agree on all points EXCEPT the cap bonus to lasers. Ya'll have said, and know it... eve is about specialization, cap use bonus on a Khanid missile ship seems a bit bass ackwards imo. (And in the opinion of others :) ) wewt! now I'll actually have more than 50k sp in missiles! We have to have that cap bonus, unless we change the T1 variants of the ships, as well. In EVE, T2 ships have the skill-based bonuses for their T1 variant as well as new skill-based bonuses that are unique to themselves. Basically, unless you change the Maller, you're not removing that bonus from the Sacrilege. The same goes for punisher>vengeance, etc. Except the vengeane and retribution do not get a 5% resistance bonus. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Idara Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.18 21:28:00 - [427] You beat me there, I was just going to say that's total trash, because the Vengeance only gets the ****ty bonus of the Punisher, not the half-decent tanky one. ---
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.18 23:54:00 - [428] Originally by: Idara You beat me there, I was just going to say that's total trash, because the Vengeance only gets the ****ty bonus of the Punisher, not the half-decent tanky one. Though to be honest a optimal/resistance/damage retribution or vengeance might be a bit "over the top" as it were. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2007.02.19 00:22:00 - [429] Originally by: Goumindong We have to have that cap bonus, unless we change the T1 variants of the ships, as well. In EVE, T2 ships have the skill-based bonuses for their T1 variant as well as new skill-based bonuses that are unique to themselves. Basically, unless you change the Maller, you're not removing that bonus from the Sacrilege. The same goes for punisher>vengeance, etc. Except the vengeane and retribution do not get a 5% resistance bonus. More importantly, that's just a general guidline, not an absolute rule. All the AFs break it to some degree, from missing bonuses like the Vengeance to completely different bonuses like the Hawk. Or more importantly, the precedent of changing T1 gunboats into T2 missile boats. Lets look at them: Flycatcher: Loses hybrid optimal and tracking to gain missile velocity and precision. Nighthawk: Loses hybrid optimal for missile rate of fire. Hawk: Loses hybrid optimal for missile kinetic damage. So there's clear precedent for changing now-useless T1 bonuses if the T2 version of a ship uses different weapons.
Rania Serlia World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.02.19 00:32:00 - [430] Edited by: Rania Serlia on 19/02/2007 00:29:32 I find the idea of missile spewing khanid ships to be remarkably appealing. If they touch my curse(-nosrange, +misilerof or somesuch), I will cry. Always had a problem with the khanid ships that never seemed to know what they were, heretic, malediction, and to a lesser extent sacri...
Litus Arowar Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2007.02.19 00:35:00 - [431] I can see myself flying a lot more malediction and a lot less crusader if these changes go through... it'd really make that ship beautiful to fly, as beautiful as the crusader already is in the right hands the vengeance too could greatly benefit from this, becoming an even better takler due to its ability to shoot even when nossed when needed Albert Anastacia> Like they say, adapt or die. I adapted and now I get to Iwinbutton all over everyones face. Kraven Kor> When I lose a ship to lag / disco / cat-on-fire, well, I'm just @#$%ed.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.19 01:04:00 - [432] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Sarmaul Rule 7: Thou Shalt Try To Retain Thy's 50% Laser Cap Reduction Bonus Because some people are never happy, and most ships inherit that bonus anyway. I agree with most everything except this. It's just a waste, nobody is gonna use lasers on a Sac if these changes were to come in. I'm not too sure what should replace it, nothing too great. Perhaps a missile flight time or speed bonus. I would like to see the Khanid tankers drop the -10% laser cap use bonus per level and get a second tanking bonus instead. Let it be +10% to rep amount per level Let them be the toughest armor tankers in game period with the resist bonus AND the rep amount bonus. Resist bonus + rep amount bonus would give them a perfect niche for the Amarrian fleet while keeping them distinctly amarrian. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:35:00 - [433] They already are the toughest armor tankers in the game, with the largest number of low slots and a very strong resist bonus. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Selia Rain	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:37:00 - [434] Because surely a sacrilige with a +repamount(10%!), +resist, +launcherrof, +damage wouldn't be overpowered. Not in the least.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.19 14:49:00 - [435] Originally by: Goumindong They already are the toughest armor tankers in the game, with the largest number of low slots and a very strong resist bonus. Meh, I mistyped. My suggested bonus should be the same as the Gallente ships @ 7.5% per level. The issue lies in the fact that tanking is inherently weaker than ganking. Multiple friendly Tanks do not combine additively like gank ships, and defenses suffer from a "diminishing returns" effect that dps does not, i.e. they both have stacking penalties but resist boni also suffer from reduced effectiveness as your hardening trends upwards. A percent of a percent if you will. The armor amount bonus side steps this problem as it is the one defensive bonus that gets stronger the more rigs/mods are added that effect it. Adding the armor rep amount bonus with the armor resist simply creates a ship that A)Unique/Usefull and B) has survivability that is an equal tradeoff to the lessor dps it also posseses. And no, 5 launchers with a rof bonus combined with an armor resist and armor amount bonus wouldn't be overpowering on the Sac. It would make it interesting, unique, and usefull. Applied to the Damnation, it would almost make it worthwhile using over an Eos, Vulture, or Claymore. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Nylian Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.19 15:09:00 - [436] Originally by: Mr Peanut We have to have that cap bonus, unless we change the T1 variants of the ships, as well. In EVE, T2 ships have the skill-based bonuses for their T1 variant as well as new skill-based bonuses that are unique to themselves. Basically, unless you change the Maller, you're not removing that bonus from the Sacrilege. The same goes for punisher>vengeance, etc. And no, it doesn't HAVE to be there. Though it might make more sense. :) I'm not saying I wouldn't like it, but I don't think it would be necessary. Heck, by that logic just take it off the maller too. Considering the maller doesn't have a laser damage bonus I would never fit lasers on it anyway. I've always fit projectiles on my puni/maller/apoc, making the tank that much more effective, especially for lower sp's.
Danh	Posted - 2007.02.19 16:20:00 - [437] Originally by: Nylian Originally by: Mr Peanut We have to have that cap bonus, unless we change the T1 variants of the ships, as well. In EVE, T2 ships have the skill-based bonuses for their T1 variant as well as new skill-based bonuses that are unique to themselves. Basically, unless you change the Maller, you're not removing that bonus from the Sacrilege. The same goes for punisher>vengeance, etc. And no, it doesn't HAVE to be there. Though it might make more sense. :) I'm not saying I wouldn't like it, but I don't think it would be necessary. Heck, by that logic just take it off the maller too. Considering the maller doesn't have a laser damage bonus I would never fit lasers on it anyway. I've always fit projectiles on my puni/maller/apoc, making the tank that much more effective, especially for lower sp's. Yet, but if you're using projectiles, you'll benefit more from a ship that gets bonuses to them. So not much point in flying the maller (unless you're purposely trading the lower damage for a slightly better tank?). Now if lasers used less cap, there'd be no need for the laser cap bonus on amarr ships and we could get a bonus that makes using lasers appealing. And it would also make khanid weapon systems make more sense (because they could then have the tech1 bonus for lasers and the tech2 bonus for missiles or whatever).
Alpine 69 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.19 21:05:00 - [438] Hmmm im not an Amarr pilot, however i do love these ideas, as the khanid ships arent that good right now, ccp, listen to this man.
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.02.19 21:32:00 - [439] i want laser tracking/optimal bonuses on our ships cus we are ment to be mid-range fighters --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Mr Peanut STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.20 04:07:00 - [440] Originally by: Tisanta i want laser tracking/optimal bonuses on our ships cus we are ment to be mid-range fighters Yes pls.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.20 06:45:00 - [441] Originally by: Mr Peanut Originally by: Tisanta i want laser tracking/optimal bonuses on our ships cus we are ment to be mid-range fighters Yes pls. Which is why we get them on the Zealot and Retribution. Now if they were on the Absolution and Crusader that would be awesome. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.20 15:12:00 - [442] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Mr Peanut Originally by: Tisanta i want laser tracking/optimal bonuses on our ships cus we are ment to be mid-range fighters Yes pls. Which is why we get them on the Zealot and Retribution. Now if they were on the Absolution and Crusader that would be awesome. I have to agree, the optimal bonus for lasers on the Zealot makes is awesome and gives it a significant advantage over the Gallente short range boats. I was REALLY confused when I saw that the Absolution didn't get the same optimal bonus as the zealot. Why is that? Why don't the Sader and Absolution get an optimal bonus like the Zealot and Retri? It's such a perfect fit on Amarr gunships.........do they get something else in it's place? Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.20 15:47:00 - [443] Edited by: Goumindong on 20/02/2007 15:44:28 Sader gets: cap/damage sig/tracking Abso gets: Cap/Res rof/dmg Zealot gets Rof/cap Dmg/opt Retri gets: cap/null Opt/dmg In order to give the sader an opt bonus it would have to drop tracking[worth it!!!] and in order to give the abso an opt bonus it would have to drop damage or rof. ed: unless of course, the whole stupid "cap use" thing was nixed ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Deva Blackfire Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.21 14:22:00 - [444] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Mr Peanut Originally by: Tisanta i want laser tracking/optimal bonuses on our ships cus we are ment to be mid-range fighters Yes pls. Which is why we get them on the Zealot and Retribution. Now if they were on the Absolution and Crusader that would be awesome. I have to agree, the optimal bonus for lasers on the Zealot makes is awesome and gives it a significant advantage over the Gallente short range boats. I was REALLY confused when I saw that the Absolution didn't get the same optimal bonus as the zealot. Why is that? Why don't the Sader and Absolution get an optimal bonus like the Zealot and Retri? It's such a perfect fit on Amarr gunships.........do they get something else in it's place? Nyxus If you add an optimal range bonus to Abso... what would be a role of Zealot then? Maybe they should change all our bonuses to -10% cap use and +10% optimal on any ship? Absolution is fine as it is... Well, it is fine for Amarrian vessel I mean Dont even DARE to touch absolution. If it loses either rof or damage - plz transfer my lvl5 command ships into lvl5 of other skill. Trained it to get the "edge" (10% more damage) over ppl with commands4. Also - range on heavy pulses + scorch is OK (22+5km faloff). Only lasers that are a bit weak are small ones - IMO they should hit abt 13-14k with scorch... atm its abt 10-12k making it hard to sit outside of web range.
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2007.02.21 16:37:00 - [445] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Dont even DARE to touch absolution. If it loses either rof or damage - plz transfer my lvl5 command ships into lvl5 of other skill. Trained it to get the "edge" (10% more damage) over ppl with commands4. Actually, there is a 11.(1)% DPS increment on Absolution when progressing 4 lvl -> 5. Just compare 1.2/0.8 and 1.25/0.75
Deva Blackfire Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.21 17:22:00 - [446] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Originally by: Deva Blackfire Dont even DARE to touch absolution. If it loses either rof or damage - plz transfer my lvl5 command ships into lvl5 of other skill. Trained it to get the "edge" (10% more damage) over ppl with commands4. Actually, there is a 11.(1)% DPS increment on Absolution when progressing 4 lvl -> 5. Just compare 1.2/0.8 and 1.25/0.75 Meh - details :) (yeh i know 5% rof is not 5% damage - just posted more-less amount you gain) Still - dont touch it :) Fix khanids instead :)
Azver Deroven Amarr Laurifer Militis FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.02.25 23:53:00 - [447] Im aware its old, but damn... this is exactly what I would love to see, give this man a medal :) Stop the nanos!
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.26 08:26:00 - [448] S¦Did anyone mention or suggest the Apocalypse to get some more missile slots? I'm just casually looking at the suggestions and they aren't bad at all... at least amarr will get more diversity and perhaps strong lasers and non-cap select damage type missiles will be an awesome combo with the armor tanks...
Mrs Amadeus	Posted - 2007.04.07 18:40:00 - [449] Bump for the other good thread on fixing amarr /signed
Josh Causto Gallente Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.15 23:11:00 - [450] You sir are sexy.

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