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Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:38:00 - [121] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Bentguru Ever heard of that saying about assuming? Sayings is for old wimen. And you obviously. Quote: I don't forum ***** much You should. It might stop you from coming of as a complete ignoranus. And having 2 brain cells might prevent you from being a complete idiot. Oh woe to me, I actually have a life outside of the eve-forums and don't read every single thread! Seriously, do you even have a job? Go outside, have a life, do something other than forum whoring. Like a class on arguementative structure for example... -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:39:00 - [122] Originally by: korrey Yet if you post a 'How do I fit my mauler' thread on here you'll get a setup that involves frig guns and a 1600mm plate. Yet another non-Amarr pilot? you will not see anything on weirda amarr cruiser except medium (heavy) guns thank you (well, except the arbi). beginning to think fly a lot more amarr then the OP. stop looking for cookie cutter forum setup... look at the ship, and fit it. it pretty easy to tell the setup that is 'intended' for almost every ship in game. funny part is that the cookie cutter setup generally ignore that. try that. the 1600mm plate (duramaller) is a mission/npc setup ffs... of course it sucks for pvp. you want setups - find them youself. it not that hard... (not talking about on the forums either). __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
steveid	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:49:00 - [123] TBH i dont know what your talking about. the apoc is still the best tanker in the game, the geddon still does silly damage, you got the crusader thats decent, the curse thats IMO the best force recon in the game. The arbitrator rocks, but the maller and omen arn't bad either. The prophecy is a great ship, as its its t2 version, and so i really am missing your point. Amarr isn't perfect. No race will ever be perfect, but when you compare it to minmetar for instance who's cruisers frigates bc's and there t2 versions pretty much suck i dont think your right. The claymore just cant compare to the other races, the huggin is so bad that most threads on how to set it up tell you not to bother, and the only ship thats widely used id the tempest (and maybe the rupture). The vaga is a good ship .. but so's the zealot. If you dont like amarr .. train another race, or sell your char on the forums and get yourself a new one. I'm amarr (and do use its ships) but i primarily use gallante cos i like em. And last thing, ofc this game will never be perfectly balanced. There will always be an i-win button, and at the moment people seem to think its caldari (altho imo its gallante). If it is caldari, i'd rather it stay that way, as there are far more caldari players than any other race, and so its MORE balanced than it would be if another race was uber. Oh, and heres a tissue.
Cruz	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:51:00 - [124] Originally by: steveid TBH i dont know what your talking about. the apoc is still the best tanker in the game Best PVE tanker maybe, otherwise no it's not. --------------------------- For the glory of the empire!
steveid	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:53:00 - [125] Originally by: Cruz Originally by: steveid TBH i dont know what your talking about. the apoc is still the best tanker in the game Best PVE tanker maybe, otherwise no it's not. that goes back to the bob guys point about wanting a ship that does everything. Trouble with that is if everyone had one the game would be dull. Each ship is good in its own niche.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:57:00 - [126] Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 23/06/2006 18:57:00 Originally by: Bentguru Oh woe to me, I actually have a life outside of the eve-forums Incase you didnt know this, this is about game balance. And if youre going to spout your silly little comments you should atleast be up to date. Clearly you are not. Quote: Seriously, do you even have a job? Go outside, have a life, do something other than forum whoring. Like a class on arguementative structure for example... I suspect youre merely a child that dont get enough attention from mom and dad and I have no desire in arguing with you any further. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:59:00 - [127] Amarr stop crying to your God for uber weapons and grow some Balls . With that said. CCP is always trying to Balance... There will always be a ship that out pawns all others. At this time some have come to believe that Amarr are the ones that are down and out. Maybe so but your ships are excellent at what they do, and I'm sure they will be uber once again for a short time before getting nerfed again. I believe I saw in a post some where that a zealot was soloing the frist lvl of a 10/10, maybe I'm thinking of another ship though. As for your weapons. Yes they only do 2 damage types however they do more damage than projectiles, not Alpha but DSP and Dot. Him what matter most here??? Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... I think thatÆs all that need to be said. Reading this forum has been fun. I'm glad the Amarr feel there precious God is neglecting them.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:59:00 - [128] Originally by: steveid TBH i dont know what your talking about. the apoc is still the best tanker in the game False. Well ok, it MIGHT be the best tanker as long as you dont activate any guns. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:01:00 - [129] Originally by: steveid the huggin is so bad that most threads on how to set it up tell you not to bother You lost all credibility with this quote. Try thinking outside the box... A huggin is not designed to be flown like the other recons, nor is it to be flown like a conventional tech 1 cruiser. You kite with it and pop inties, it has a role in gangs and it performs that role almost perfectly. I pretty much agree with the rest of your post. However I think you make minmatar out to be far worse than they actually are.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:05:00 - [130] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Incase you didnt know this, this is about game balance. And if youre going to spout your silly little comments you should atleast be up to date. Clearly you are not. Actually yes, the idea had occured to me. Which is why I have asked you repeatedly to state your view and/or reasoning, which you have failed to do over and over. I, on the other hand, have actually said something about the balancing. Originally by: Imperial Coercion I suspect youre merely a child that dont get enough attention from mom and dad and I have no desire in arguing with you any further. Translation: I'm loosing this arguement quickly and am trying to salvage what little self-esteem i have by trying to take the high moral road. You began flaming before i even entered the thread, fact. You flame me for my opinions saying, amoung other things, that I'm missing a "point" that you never produced, fact. You flame me when I take the only logical explanation to your responses (the point being the origional post) and point out how it is wrong, fact. So just go ahead and run away. To be honest I've tired of this converstaion myself, it's remarkably like headbutting a brick wall. I'm under no illusions that my posts will ever overcome your massive case of denial. I just have fun argueing with idiots. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM

Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:05:00 - [131] Originally by: Red Six Edited by: Red Six on 23/06/2006 18:29:45 Why does everyone want a solo pwnmobile? Someone has as their signature a quote from Oveur that states something about battleships should not be that. Yet everytime one of these threads come around that is what everyone starts whining about. I can't beat X with Y solo. So what? Get a gang and work together. Domi got you NOS'd to death? Get an interdictor friend to bubble him up drop a few web drones on him and sit out in a tachageddon and BBQ him. No ship is perfect neither is a single race perfect. Some do better in fleets, I'm sure Krystal will scream if you mess up here Apoc, she's number 2 or 3 on the BoB killboard for all time kills and she flies an Apoc for the most part. She's very good at using a SnipApoc to roast people. It's not a Tempest but the SnipApoc has a good Alpha strike and decent rate of fire. Slap a gang together around them and you'll do just as well as if you had the same number of Tempests. You know what I really find funny is the lack of complaints in this thread from the Amarr roleplayer corps. If anyone knows how to setup and fly these ships they do and yet where are their complaints. When there have been issues with things they do come here and make their opinions know and they have not come in to complain. Mind you I haven't read all the Amarr is broken threads but the ones I have I don't recall seeing CVA or AM pilots in them, think on that for a second or two. Edit: For the record I use Amarr BC and BS. I have a Tachageddon and a SnipeApoc in my hangar alongside my Tempests and Typhoon. I actually prefer the Prophecy over the Cyclone. Good points, more than worth a reply. The problem with the "Battleships shouldn't be solopwnmobiles" quote is that certain races recieve such "solopwnmobiles" but certain races don't. I think you get the point right? However, if the quote is "Amarr Battleships shouldn't be solopwnmobiles" I will just shut up. Some dude from PIE (Rod Blake, spelling?) already posted his views on the topic in the other thread, I would really advice you to read the other thread. Much better stuff in there. As of the people that say we should come up with numbers. Why should I do the work of the dev team? Tell me a reason? I just get me a gallente/caldari alt. Saves much hassle and you use the same tools like the other jerks and wtfpwn everything in your nosdomi. I play this game to have fun. Not to tell the developers how they should do their work. Most amarr issues are obvious, if you want a more detailed version you should look in the other thread I already linked to in another reply. Here some calculations from a really stupid guy: 1. EANM t2 tank increases your EM resists to approximatly to 80%, this reduces the dmg you do with EM by 50%. Cool eh? I don't think a graph is needed here. 2. Omen powergrid. If you fit 4x heavy pulse t2 you have grid for an afterburner. Increase by 200 - 250 and it could be a decent ship! 3. Small laser powergrid use: Some random AC on a claw: 2 powergrid, Gatling pulse t2 (lowest tier) 6 powergrid. Medium beam t2 uses 18 powergrid. 4 of those on your crusader = 72 powergrid, you get 50 pg with your sader and engineering V. 4. Crap t1 ships (this goes with 2. the omen powergrid): thorax/caracal/vexor/rupture are all better than the maller or the omen. I would chose one of the other cruiser over a omen/maller all the time. I don't know how I should make this up with calculations?! 5. T2 crystal cost: You have to carry 24 mill just on t2 crystals in your geddon. Absurd? Hell, yeah! 6. Damage types (goes with 1. EANM t2 tank): Lasers do to much EM damage, lasers also have Radio crystals (+60% optimal) which does only EM damage, pretty decent for fleet fight eh?
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:11:00 - [132] Originally by: Jet Collins Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... Exept both gallente and caldari have (useable) ships which use drones or missles as PRIMARY attack system, from frigates up to the BS lvl. Amarr have there the Arbitrator and thats about it. Unless you want to count the still gimped khanid ships. If those were made into actually useful missle specced ships we would be able to switch to other ships when we want/need to deal something else than em/therm, but right now this is not the case.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:31:00 - [133] Originally by: Bentguru I just have fun argueing with idiots. You must argue with yourself alot then. Because you are the biggest idiot here. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:34:00 - [134] Originally by: Jet Collins Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... The problem isn't the amount of damage types, it's the types themselves. EM has a natural 60% resist acroess ALL ships. It's like an active hardener that is always on. It royally screws over amarr frig vs frig combat and makes it absurdly easy to tank most amarr ships. All you need is an EAN and your up around 70ish resist to half the amarr damage. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:36:00 - [135] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Bentguru I just have fun argueing with idiots. You must argue with yourself alot then. Because you are the biggest idiot here. Again, the classic "No.. YOU suck" comeback. Either contribute to the thread or leave. You're only making yourself look worse. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Kyguard	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:37:00 - [136] Originally by: Red Six Why does everyone want a solo pwnmobile? We just want to be "equal" to other races. Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar have solopwnmobiles. But I guess I can understand this, most people aren't looking for game balance, but to see their race overpowered. === God is on the side with the best arti
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:39:00 - [137] Originally by: Bentguru Again, the classic "No.. YOU suck" comeback. Either contribute to the thread or leave. You're only making yourself look worse. Oh the irony. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:40:00 - [138] nearly ALL of this post is full of crap, total bull**. Amarr are a gimped race, they have problems at ALL T1 levels, and the amarr ships that are deemed good are drone boats more than laser boats [ie curse, arbitrator ect] the only one good t1 laser ship is the armageddon and that is crap solo, near impossible! if id known about amarr problems 9months ago id of pressed for amarr fix insted of blasters, the blasters/ac problems where nothing compaired to the amarr problems! -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent ***s
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:41:00 - [139] and can people who have never flown an amarr ship fitted with t2, or who have never sat down and looked at it on paper not post, which is basicly nearly all of you! -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:45:00 - [140] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Bentguru Again, the classic "No.. YOU suck" comeback. Either contribute to the thread or leave. You're only making yourself look worse. Oh the irony. dear god, please, keep going, say something else. I haven't had this much fun since I got in an arguement with a die-hard creationist. BTW: My challenge to you is still standing. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM

Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:45:00 - [141] Originally by: Bentguru Originally by: Jet Collins Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... The problem isn't the amount of damage types, it's the types themselves. EM has a natural 60% resist acroess ALL ships. It's like an active hardener that is always on. It royally screws over amarr frig vs frig combat and makes it absurdly easy to tank most amarr ships. All you need is an EAN and your up around 70ish resist to half the amarr damage. Ture and this maybe the disrepency with Ammar in PvP because most ships in PVP armor tank do to using its mids for EW. However I do not think it grants a change. The main reason (to my belive)that Ammar has these damage types is that they never have to reload thier weapons and they do significant damage compaired to other "guns". And come on they are Lasers after all :) you really expect a laser to do Kin or Explosive damage . But has I said and will stand by this and this will be my last post in this thread. CCP is always "trying" to balance. Every race has this time. At this time it jsut so happens its not Amarrs time. I have a felling once Kali comes it may change again though so just be patient.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:48:00 - [142] Originally by: Bentguru BTW: My challenge to you is still standing. Line em up and ill tear em down. so far we have you started by throwing subtile insults 'can you read' and me replying. Then when you get some of your own medicine you start crying and accusing me of flaming. Dont even bother replying, since my opinion of you have already been stated. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Asuzke Mitsugi	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:49:00 - [143] \0/ Page Six! OP : you are so wrong you don't even know it. Amarr is alive and well.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:51:00 - [144] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Dont even bother replying, since my opinion of you have already been stated. Lol I don't know why you even bothered talking to that guy in the first place. Clearly hes a nutter. Ignore him.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:52:00 - [145] Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi \0/ Page Six! OP : you are so wrong you don't even know it. Amarr is alive and well. Insted of posting bull like that, tell us what *** amarr ship pawns and give us a setup u moron the amarr have the gedden, a great group ship, total crap solo then they have the arbitrator which is a DRONE ship, not lasers so does that even count! other than that, all their t1 ships are as usefull as the noob ships! -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:53:00 - [146] Originally by: Jet Collins Originally by: Bentguru Originally by: Jet Collins Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... The problem isn't the amount of damage types, it's the types themselves. EM has a natural 60% resist acroess ALL ships. It's like an active hardener that is always on. It royally screws over amarr frig vs frig combat and makes it absurdly easy to tank most amarr ships. All you need is an EAN and your up around 70ish resist to half the amarr damage. Ture and this maybe the disrepency with Ammar in PvP because most ships in PVP armor tank do to using its mids for EW. However I do not think it grants a change. The main reason (to my belive)that Ammar has these damage types is that they never have to reload thier weapons and they do significant damage compaired to other "guns". And come on they are Lasers after all :) you really expect a laser to do Kin or Explosive damage . But has I said and will stand by this and this will be my last post in this thread. CCP is always "trying" to balance. Every race has this time. At this time it jsut so happens its not Amarrs time. I have a felling once Kali comes it may change again though so just be patient. Nope, don't really expect it to, and I'm not advocating it either. Tbh my only though is maybe a possible nerf, down to 50% or so, to natural EM resistance in armor. Or maybe a greater nerf to the stat and a boost to sheild resists. To be honest the deal is like this: Minmatar don't have this problem because they can do all damage types by the nature of proj ammo (as a hypothetical the whining that would result from minnies only doing explo and kin for instance would be hilarious), Gal have a good deal of drone ships so it's not an issue for them, caldari have missles 'nuff said. Apart from the few amarr drone ships, we're locked into 2 damage types. To make it slightly worse, lasers are made with large optimals based on the idea that they're a mid-range weapon (obviously there are exceptions), but you can only dictate range out to 20km usually in solo fights seeing as thats the farthest you can scramble somebody without very expensive mods. Thats usefull with anything that doesn't have tons of NOS on their ship, and seeing as lasers take up large amounts of grid it's hard for amarr ships to counter-nos effectively without gimping their setup. It's alot of little things that make it hard to solo. Amarr ships are still very nice in gangs though. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:55:00 - [147] Originally by: Imperial Coercion so far we have you started by throwing subtile insults 'can you read' and me replying. Then when you get some of your own medicine you start crying and accusing me of flaming. Dont even bother replying, since my opinion of you have already been stated. You need a cat scan. I never directed a post at you or quote one of your's until you did and flamed me. Seriously, get checked. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
O'Sirius	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:01:00 - [148] I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. Its just like in other mmorgs. Some classes are better solo, some are better in groups. For example in EQ Necromancers could solo, warriors could not. But those Nercomancers weren't really all that useful in group, while warriors were because you needed a tank. Its impossible to make everyone equal, because if you do, there's absolutly no variation between the classes or in our case, ships. Now Amarr have their own solo ships(Curse/Pilgrim for example). So its not like we're locked in the gang only role.
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:02:00 - [149] Edited by: Aramendel on 23/06/2006 20:03:00 Originally by: Jet Collins Ture and this maybe the disrepency with Ammar in PvP because most ships in PVP armor tank do to using its mids for EW. However I do not think it grants a change. The main reason (to my belive)that Ammar has these damage types is that they never have to reload thier weapons and they do significant damage compaired to other "guns". Actually lasers do pretty similar dps compared to other guns withthe shipboni included. Compare a 250 rail with +25% damage with a heavy beam with -50% cap and you'll see that the dps and cap/sec of the rail is actually slightly better. Add ocassional reloading to it (although you do not necessarily need to use it every combat) and the effeciency of both weapons in pretty much identical. Quote: And come on they are Lasers after all :) you really expect a laser to do Kin or Explosive damage . Don't force me to go into physics, otherwise Godar Marak will flame me again. Let me just say this: I'll give you 100 mil if you can prove to me how lasers could do anything which couldcount as "EM damage". Or what allows beams to work with full effeciency the first 50 km and then suddenly stops them alltogether. Lasers are right now very unrealistic compared to RL. Originally by: O'Sirius I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. Believe it or not, you can fly a mega with the same skill you need for the Domi.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:03:00 - [150] Originally by: O'Sirius I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. I beive the whole point is that most races has ships for all roles. amarr doesnt even have a proper solo battleship let alone cruisers.



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