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korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:57:00 - [1] This thread is for the Devs only. If none answer the oh well, I guess back to Battlefield 2 or World of Warcraft. This thread is also not another Amarr complaint thread. If thats what it turns into then Ill delete it. Devs, Tux, I dont care who. Dont you even see anything going on in these forums? Or too busy making Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente better? What the **** is wrong with you? Theres only 4 races in the game. 1 of them is insanely good. 2 of them are fairly good and even better with higher skills. 1 of them also sucks so morbidly its rediculous. Do you not see this? I would like a response from the devs. Just 1 if thats all you can give. But answer these. Why do you respond when something insignificant needs fixing but when 1 WHOLE race is screwed you dissapear? And why hasnt someone even once, just 'Confirmed' that Amarr are terrible? Do you even fly amarr? Have you even looked at them in the last month? I can see, whether it bee Customer support or just game developement...Eve is not the game for me. Its fun but things that need fixing most just arent getting done.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:59:00 - [2] OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING Amarr had it good for years. Now things are getting balanced you're *****ing? LOL, just LOL. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:59:00 - [3] Edited by: Twilight Moon on 23/06/2006 15:00:14 Get used to it. Minmatar used to suck, its Amarr's turn now. Christ look at Gallante...they only just got their Blasters tweaked after 3 years. I hear next month the Caldari are going to give being crap a go. Oh, and btw....you cant ask, and expect only Dev's to reply in a public forum. The whole point is debate. --------------------- Sig to come soonish.
Exavier Macbeth	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:07:00 - [4] The reason the Devs don't reply to MOST threads about heated issues. (No i am not a Dev... for this game :P ) Basicly when it is a heated issue as soon as the devs post in the thread any further ideas that thread my have created goes out the window as it turnes into an "I love you/I Hate you for the changes" discussion. Feel free to look in any thread the devs posted in on any major topic. You will immediatly notice that the next 2-3 pages after dev post is complete garbage (even if its compliments its unconstructive). This was mentioned by Tuxford specificly in a Dev blog he did (or was it an actual thread i can't remember now). Whats sad is its true for any game. In My Opinion there are many aspecs of the game currently broke and some of them since release 3 years ago when i started playing. However I thank Tuxford for all his work. I think i have seen more positive looking changes in since he took over than i have in a long time. And at a rate that looks promissing. I will take minor changes every few weeks over 1 Major patch that usually breaks more than it fixes any day of the week. Ok i have said my peace.
Satomila Kunis	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Satomila Kunis on 23/06/2006 15:12:55 Edited by: Satomila Kunis on 23/06/2006 15:10:46 Originally by: korrey This thread is for the Devs only. If none answer the oh well, I guess back to Battlefield 2 or World of Warcraft. This thread is also not another Amarr complaint thread. If thats what it turns into then Ill delete it. Well this is some amount of irony. WoW has been the worst when it came to ping pong between which class was uber which patch. WoW's dev response? When have you EVER seen that on their forums? You normally only ever get the Community Managers on there. Quote: What the ** is wrong with you? Theres only 4 races in the game. 1 of them is insanely good. 2 of them are fairly good and even better with higher skills. 1 of them also sucks so morbidly its rediculous. Do you not see this? I would like a response from the devs. Just 1 if thats all you can give. But answer these. Why do you respond when something insignificant needs fixing but when 1 WHOLE race is screwed you dissapear? And why hasnt someone even once, just 'Confirmed' that Amarr are terrible? Do you even fly amarr? Have you even looked at them in the last month? If they're terrible, fly something else then. You're not locked down to flying JUST one race's ships. If you don't want to for whatever reason, then adapt. Being uber in EVE is defined by how quickly and how well you can adapt to your situation, opponent, etc. Not by how pwn-ish your ship is. Quote:** I can see, whether it bee Customer support or just game developement...Eve is not the game for me. Its fun but things that need fixing most just arent getting done. P.S. Enjoy a different game then. Please.
Kery Nysell	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:14:00 - [6] To the OP : have fun on WoW, can I have your stuff when you leave ? Hint : an aggressive post calling for a Dev answer will get you nothing.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:15:00 - [7] Minmatar are fine now. Caldari are fine now. Gallante are definately fine now. Amarr? Still horrible. Ok? So forget anything I wrote on the first post and think of this... Why are the Devs (And this has happened countless times before) working on fairly -none- important stuff when theres a whole RACE thats broken. And yeah maybe theres some 3 year old stuff that hasnt been fixed, but none of them are affecting thousands of players daily because there race cant do jack damage to armor and cant outtank any other ship in EVE. Besides maybe EMC but I wont go there.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:16:00 - [8] the problem is that you are wrong. if you were right - then it would be devs problem, but you not. sarmaul qft. __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Selak Zorander	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:22:00 - [9] Originally by: korrey Minmatar are fine now. Caldari are fine now. Gallante are definately fine now. Amarr? Still horrible. Ok? So forget anything I wrote on the first post and think of this... Why are the Devs (And this has happened countless times before) working on fairly -none- important stuff when theres a whole RACE thats broken. And yeah maybe theres some 3 year old stuff that hasnt been fixed, but none of them are affecting thousands of players daily because there race cant do jack damage to armor and cant outtank any other ship in EVE. Besides maybe EMC but I wont go there. First, yes they look at amarr too. Tachyons just got a slight damage increase or did you completely forget that part. Also, up until the last few months the ship advice has always been fly ravens or fly amarr. When I started, if you did not fly amarr then you supposedly had little clue about the game (i know that is not entirely true but amarr pilots tried to have everyone believe that). It all changed with the stancking penalty nerf a few patches ago when fitting more damage mods did not get you much (before after the 6th mod you actually started getting more bonus for each tech 2 damage mod you fit). Who could take advantage of that little nice thing? Why only the amarr mostly since they have the most low slots of anyone. Now that they have fixed a few things that were serious problems for other races, everyone that got use to how the amarr where are complaining because they are more closely balanced with everyone else. Besides, they still have the best armor tank abilities in game for their classes.
Angus McLein	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:24:00 - [10] Personally I think hes right. As follows. ...Do you fly Amarr wierda? Probably not. And if you do youve probably got amarr frigate 1 and thinks the Executioner pwns all. Seriously though, I fly caldari and Gallente up to BS so adapting isnt much of a problem. The problem is that numerous people eaech day are singing up to play EVE and at some of them choose amarr. So they get started in an amarr character, realize they suckr and either quite eve or if their smart, switch races. Not how you want you MMORPG to be played having people leaeve just because there main race is craptastic. And people have been paying $15 a month to spec in amarr with millions of sp in amarr ships and weapons...noly to find there many months of training and RL money were worthless. Again not a way you want your MMORPG to be played.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:29:00 - [11] After reading this I am ashamed of being an amarr
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:32:00 - [12] Best armor tank in the game? LOL how long have you been playing? Or at least when was the last time you logged on? Dominix vs Apoc. Dominix can EMC you to death, NOS you to death, drone you to death and STILL have the same tank as an apoc. Its gotten to the point where 'Who cant tank as good as amarr?' (Oh and btw give me one good amarr pvp ship besides curse and armageddon and ill give you another races equivalent that will murder it.) moving along. Omen vs Moa. Omen is supposed to be a gank ship. All damage. Moa is supposed to be a nice blasterboat. Moa can do more damage and STILL fit a better tank PLUS emc if the need be. Maller vs Thorax...Need I even talk about it? Well for fun I will. Ok mallers got a nice big 1600mm plate and some resistance plus a med rep...not bad. Oh wait...its got freakin frigate guns... Ok Thorax. Formidable tank and guess what? as a bonus is can even use Medium guns ...and NOS to kill the mallers tank. Apoc vs Tempest. Apocs tank is nice but doesnt do jack damage. Tempest has pretty much just as good of a tank and does amazing damage. Plus apoc gets nossed to death. Does no one notice that amarr cant even touch the waters of PVP without getting screwed over? Aside from the curse and Armageddon + a few (I mean a very FEW) t2 ships...amarr is retarded.
Stanis	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:32:00 - [13] I hope you all Ammar whiners just die.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Stanis I hope you all Ammar whiners just die. Dont worry...we are on the battlefield...
Kery Nysell	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Angus McLein Personally I think hes right. As follows. ...Do you fly Amarr wierda? Probably not. And if you do youve probably got amarr frigate 1 and thinks the Executioner pwns all. Seriously though, I fly caldari and Gallente up to BS so adapting isnt much of a problem. The problem is that numerous people eaech day are singing up to play EVE and at some of them choose amarr. So they get started in an amarr character, realize they suckr and either quite eve or if their smart, switch races. Not how you want you MMORPG to be played having people leaeve just because there main race is craptastic. And people have been paying $15 a month to spec in amarr with millions of sp in amarr ships and weapons...noly to find there many months of training and RL money were worthless. Again not a way you want your MMORPG to be played. Too good to resist : the Executionner needs Amarr Frigate 2 to be flown, seems like your grasp of Amarr ships is a bit lacking ... Anyway, on topic : I can fly on almost all T1 ships (still working on Min Cruiser 3 to 4 before Min BS), with their "racial" weapons ... before the "stacking penalty patch", I thought that the Amarr ships were grossly overpowered (in my humble, personnal opinion), the Gankaggedon with 8 Heat Sink IIs was a real nightmare, but since that patch I find them "just good" ... I'm a carebear, and I'm proud of being PvP-clueless, but I've never had a problem damaging the armor of the NPCs in my missions (lvl 1 to 4, juggling agents and Empires), even the ones with very high resistances ... the tank is solid enough, you just take a bit of time to munch through the armor.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Stanis I hope you all Ammar whiners just die. It is amarr. So you don't want the amarr whiners to die?
Exavier Macbeth	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:36:00 - [17] So much for this NOT turning into an Amarrian suck thread lol
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Sarmaul Now things are getting balanced You dropped out of high school didnt you? Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
killerco	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:37:00 - [19] Edited by: killerco on 23/06/2006 15:39:17 Originally by: korrey Minmatar are fine now. Caldari are fine now. Gallante are definately fine now. Amarr? Still horrible. Ok? So forget anything I wrote on the first post and think of this... Why are the Devs (And this has happened countless times before) working on fairly -none- important stuff when theres a whole RACE thats broken. And yeah maybe theres some 3 year old stuff that hasnt been fixed, but none of them are affecting thousands of players daily because there race cant do jack damage to armor and cant outtank any other ship in EVE. Besides maybe EMC but I wont go there. In the early days of eve (about the time the first BS-ses came too town) Armar had the best damage off all eve Tachyons fired like crazy on armarr BS. So they reduced that a while back. Don't be a great man just be a man
Decima Sapphire	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Decima Sapphire on 23/06/2006 15:41:12 wahhhh
Gaiam	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:39:00 - [21] Originally by: korrey Maller vs Thorax...Need I even talk about it? Well for fun I will. Ok mallers got a nice big 1600mm plate and some resistance plus a med rep...not bad. Oh wait...its got freakin frigate guns... beep beep beep ---> moron alert
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Selak Zorander .. Tachyons just got a slight damage increase or did you completely forget that part. To be honest id rather not get that boost and go back to the way things were pre RMR. That utter crap patch shafted Amarr hard! Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Kery Nysell	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:41:00 - [23] Originally by: korrey <snip> moving along. Omen vs Moa. Omen is supposed to be a gank ship. All damage. Moa is supposed to be a nice blasterboat. <snip> WRONG ! The Moa is supposed to be a sniping, long range RAILboat. And to have that "formidable tank" on the Thorax, you also need a 1600mm plate and frig guns. To me, that last post of yours proved how mis-informed you are, and nothing more. Oh, and drop the 'tude.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Gaiam Originally by: korrey Maller vs Thorax...Need I even talk about it? Well for fun I will. Ok mallers got a nice big 1600mm plate and some resistance plus a med rep...not bad. Oh wait...its got freakin frigate guns... beep beep beep ---> moron alert WARNING WARNING! IRONY OVERLOAD!!!! Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:42:00 - [25] Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 23/06/2006 15:41:54 Originally by: Tassi After reading this I am ashamed of being an amarr QFT. However I use any chance I get to whine these days, this thread is as good as anyother. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Selak Zorander .. Tachyons just got a slight damage increase or did you completely forget that part. To be honest id rather not get that boost and go back to the way things were pre RMR. That utter crap patch shafted Amarr hard! you can say that too to minmatar, and twice as hard. in addition to that "OMG AMARR SUCK OMG!" I reply with a big HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HA! ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:43:00 - [27] As an amarr specced pilot, I can assure you that amarr does not suck. Geddon was and still is a terrific mid-range ship. Curse is omgwtfpwn, to put it lightly. Arbitrator can be scary if used well, I regularly own thoraxs with it. Crusader is an awesome inty. Apoc is a long range beast, and coupled with nospoc is very scary indeed. Zealot is definitely one of the better HACs. Pilgrim is like a mini-curse, so is also pwn. Lasers do more DPS then any other weapon. I fail to see why people are whining. Probably because they're under the delusion that their megapulse geddon should get right up against that blasterthron, or other such nonsense. Here's an idea, the geddon can fit 5 heavy drones. Stick 4 beserker II's and a webber drone in there. Keep your quarry at 20-28km range (depending if you have nos or not), and slam his ass with 3 types of damage while he runs around like an idiot with his head cut off because his blasters couldn't hit a moon at that range. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:43:00 - [28] Yeah this is pretty much the thread I didnt want... As for a few posts up, Getting throug rats armor is amazingly easy. Were talking about ships with 80-90 resistance to Em and Thermal...our main damage type. And again for a few posts up. This *ISNT pre-rmr anymore so bringing back things about when Omens could fit doomsday guns on them dont help the situation. Those days are over...by far. And yes I agree taking amarr of its pedastal was a good idea, but not this far. Now we went from being one of the more feared races in eve to the : 'Hey! Its an amarr battleship lets outtank it with our tristans then kill him with our standard bloodclaw missiles and 2 50m railguns.'
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:43:00 - [29] Originally by: korrey Best armor tank in the game? LOL how long have you been playing? Or at least when was the last time you logged on? Dominix vs Apoc. Dominix can EMC you to death, NOS you to death, drone you to death and STILL have the same tank as an apoc. Ok this proves it, you're just a troll. Have fun playing possibly the worst mmo with the worst dev team, enjoy WoW you clown. As for amarr sucking? Maybee just on the cruiser level, and that is because people tend to forget that amarr are mid range fleet ships instead of solo pwnmobiles like gallente and minmatar. Pulse lasers are probably one of the best fleet weapons simple because of the ease of use. They have decent range with damage only surpased by blasters(maybee torps too) and have great tracking, stack a few assisting pulse laser ships and you are going to do pretty well in small scale engagments.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Selak Zorander .. Tachyons just got a slight damage increase or did you completely forget that part. To be honest id rather not get that boost and go back to the way things were pre RMR. That utter crap patch shafted Amarr hard! The tachyon boost is totally at the wrong place. Seriously, are the devs ALWAYS drunken? Even the most ebil pirates get sober from time to time, devs not?
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Grimpak you can say that too to minmatar, and twice as hard. Then you dont have a clue. You can armour tank better than before. And even though you cant fit your t2 howitzer temp with nothing but damage mods anymore you can still hit people hard. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:46:00 - [32] Your lack of knowledge about this game combined with your ego is stunning tbh. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Kery Nysell	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:48:00 - [33] Originally by: korrey Yeah this is pretty much the thread I didnt want... As for a few posts up, Getting throug rats armor is amazingly easy. Were talking about ships with 80-90 resistance to Em and Thermal...our main damage type. And again for a few posts up. This *ISNT pre-rmr anymore so bringing back things about when Omens could fit doomsday guns on them dont help the situation. Those days are over...by far. And yes I agree taking amarr of its pedastal was a good idea, but not this far. Now we went from being one of the more feared races in eve to the : 'Hey! Its an amarr battleship lets outtank it with our tristans then kill him with our standard bloodclaw missiles and 2 50m railguns.' Are you aware that some of the NPC rats that you can find in missions have resistances in the 80-90 range ? Did you even read my post, specifically the "even the ones with very high resistances" part ?.?
Stanis	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:48:00 - [34] huh I've seen many funny things here, and not many ppl replyed even! :D korrey : I hate ppl who whine. Yes you can't fit the same fit I use on my Thorax, but you can do other things. NOT EVERY SHIP SHOULD BE THE SAME. And all you whiners are just trying that. PLS give more this/that to Maller so it can be the same as Thorax/Moa/Whatever. Use YOUR ship ADVANTAGES. If you can't see them, your loss :P. I agree then Ammar need something atm to make them more in lines with other races, but it's not what you all whiner want so I hope you all die bcs I hate the forum spam I am seeing every day. Tux this, Tux that, can you look at my ass and ****. Nothing personal though, I love Ammarians :)
Angus McLein	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:49:00 - [35] The damage increase? Whats that like another 3 dps added to the apocs already 10dps? I would have rather dumped the bonus and lowered the fitting pre-reqs and we'll call it even.
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:50:00 - [36] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Grimpak you can say that too to minmatar, and twice as hard. Then you dont have a clue. You can armour tank better than before. And even though you cant fit your t2 howitzer temp with nothing but damage mods anymore you can still hit people hard. stacking mods nerfed alpha strike badly, together with the HP increase of all ships. and guess what was the main thing for the howitzers in minmatar ships? ah yes alpha strike is no longer that good. So now we have ships that can tank good, fire with a good ammount of damage in form of DOT and stuff (amarr), and you have ships that base themselves in hi-damage alpha strike weapons that can no longer do such thing as good as it was before (I miss the 2000 to 3000 dmg wrecking shots in tempest) and in the lack of tanking ability. ...wich one's better? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
blood red	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:51:00 - [37] Originally by: Bentguru Edited by: Bentguru on 23/06/2006 15:47:53 As an amarr specced pilot, I can assure you that amarr does not suck. Geddon was and still is a terrific mid-range ship. Curse is omgwtfpwn, to put it lightly. Arbitrator can be scary if used well, I regularly own thoraxs with it. Crusader is an awesome inty. Apoc is a long range beast, and coupled with nospoc is very scary indeed. Zealot is definitely one of the better HACs. Pilgrim is like a mini-curse, so is also pwn. Lasers do more DPS then any other weapon. I fail to see why people are whining. Probably because they're under the delusion that their megapulse geddon should get right up against that blasterthron, or other such nonsense. Here's an idea, the geddon can fit 5 heavy drones. Stick 4 beserker II's and a webber drone in there. Keep your quarry at 20-28km range (depending if you have nos or not), and slam his ass with 3 types of damage while he runs around like an idiot with his head cut off because his blasters couldn't hit a moon at that range. And look, now you have an extra mid slot to fit a multispec or ECCM in! So go shove that domi pwnmobiles noses and ECM up it's ass id bet alot of isk that this pilot does not run 1600mm plate or small guns on his amarr cruisers.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:52:00 - [38] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Grimpak you can say that too to minmatar, and twice as hard. Then you dont have a clue. You can armour tank better than before. And even though you cant fit your t2 howitzer temp with nothing but damage mods anymore you can still hit people hard. stacking mods nerfed alpha strike badly, together with the HP increase of all ships. and guess what was the main thing for the howitzers in minmatar ships? ah yes alpha strike is no longer that good. So now we have ships that can tank good, fire with a good ammount of damage in form of DOT and stuff (amarr), and you have ships that base themselves in hi-damage alpha strike weapons that can no longer do such thing as good as it was before (I miss the 2000 to 3000 dmg wrecking shots in tempest) and in the lack of tanking ability. ...wich one's better? The AC tempest with cap injector + tank and ECM.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:53:00 - [39] Its not even that amazing of a boost. But some ships dont even do there roll well. How many of you have tried fitting a maller after putting a 1600mm plate and an MARII? (*Korrey raises his hand) once you do that yes, youve got an amazing tank mixed with cruiser resistance bonuses. But damage? Your guns either ahve to be frigate guns or just crap ones. It just seems like amarr is very out of place. There main roll as taning is almost obsolete because everyone and there uncle can outtank an apoc or a maller now.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:57:00 - [40] Originally by: Tassi The AC tempest with cap injector + tank and ECM. Thanks, I couldnt be bothered. Im giving up. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:57:00 - [41] Originally by: Grimpak stacking mods nerfed alpha strike badly, together with the HP increase of all ships. and guess what was the main thing for the howitzers in minmatar ships? Yes maybe you dont hit for 3500 on one shot anymore, maybe you just hit for 1500. The horror! Quote: So now we have ships that can tank good, fire with a good ammount of damage in form of DOT and stuff (amarr), and you have ships that base themselves in hi-damage alpha strike weapons that can no longer do such thing as good as it was before (I miss the 2000 to 3000 dmg wrecking shots in tempest) and in the lack of tanking ability. ...wich one's better? Obviously you dont fly Amarr. Come back when you have experience, this is Amarr thread#32453653 and in every single one people like you with no or little experience spew your rubbish. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
blood red	Posted - 2006.06.23 15:58:00 - [42] hey korrey a 1600mm plate is a battelship module dummy. they are meant to gimp your cruiser. gimp!
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Bentguru Edited by: Bentguru on 23/06/2006 15:47:53 As an amarr specced pilot, I can assure you that amarr does not suck. Geddon was and still is a terrific mid-range ship. Curse is omgwtfpwn, to put it lightly. Arbitrator can be scary if used well, I regularly own thoraxs with it. Crusader is an awesome inty. Apoc is a long range beast, and coupled with nospoc is very scary indeed. Zealot is definitely one of the better HACs. Pilgrim is like a mini-curse, so is also pwn. Lasers do more DPS then any other weapon. I fail to see why people are whining. Probably because they're under the delusion that their megapulse geddon should get right up against that blasterthron, or other such nonsense. Here's an idea, the geddon can fit 5 heavy drones. Stick 4 beserker II's and a webber drone in there. Keep your quarry at 20-28km range (depending if you have nos or not), and slam his ass with 3 types of damage while he runs around like an idiot with his head cut off because his blasters couldn't hit a moon at that range. And look, now you have an extra mid slot to fit a multispec or ECCM in! So go shove that domi pwnmobiles noses and ECM up it's ass You showed the "good" amarr ships, very nice. Now do the same with our sucky ships please. I also want to ask you how you want to prevent your enemy from warping . If someone else is tackling for you, yeah geddon is supreme in groups. I want to see how you beat a decent domi pilot in your geddon, really I want to see, maybe I can learn something?
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:01:00 - [44] Yet if you post a 'How do I fit my mauler' thread on here you'll get a setup that involves frig guns and a 1600mm plate. Yet another non-Amarr pilot?
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:03:00 - [45] Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 23/06/2006 16:03:56 Originally by: blood red hey korrey a 1600mm plate is a battelship module dummy. they are meant to gimp your cruiser. gimp! QFT. But you wont be able to fit proper medium guns and a tank even if you dont fit that 1600 plate. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Angus McLein	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:03:00 - [46] Amen...or Id like to know how your omen beats ANY other tier 1 or tier 2 cruiser in pvp.
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:04:00 - [47] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Obviously you dont fly Amarr. thank the gods I don't. I prefer to think a bit more about my setups with gallente and minmatar tyvm ...oh and the only problem with amarr is the guns imho. I still want to fit 5 med beams in my retribution, altho my vengeance is a bit more painfull now. (yes I fly amarr, altho only the small ships) ...and Tassi, I have to concede that point. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:06:00 - [48] Are you really amarr? Originally by: Bentguru Edited by: Bentguru on 23/06/2006 15:47:53 As an amarr specced pilot, I can assure you that amarr does not suck. Geddon was and still is a terrific mid-range ship. mid range pvp? where is my 30km disruptor??(no expensive faction plz) Quote: Curse is omgwtfpwn, to put it lightly. nice a DRONE ship, hey and turrets? Quote: Arbitrator can be scary if used well, I regularly own thoraxs with it. another drone ship, omen and maller? huh? Quote: Crusader is an awesome inty. nice inty but taranis, claw and crow do it better Quote: Apoc is a long range beast, and coupled with nospoc is very scary indeed. Apoc nice for alpha strike in fleets but for sniping its much better a mega or tempest, more range and more damage Quote: Zealot is definitely one of the better HACs. yea its nice but its much better and ishtar, deimos, vagabond or even a cerberus Quote: Pilgrim is like a mini-curse, so is also pwn. yay another drone ship, did you said any time.. turrets? hello? Quote: I fail to see why people are whining. Probably because they're under the delusion that their megapulse geddon should get right up against that blasterthron, or other such nonsense. Here's an idea, the geddon can fit 5 heavy drones. Stick 4 beserker II's and a webber drone in there. Keep your quarry at 20-28km range (depending if you have nos or not), and slam his ass with 3 types of damage while he runs around like an idiot with his head cut off because his blasters couldn't hit a moon at that range. And look, now you have an extra mid slot to fit a multispec or ECCM in! So go shove that domi pwnmobiles noses and ECM up it's ass yay fight at 21-28km then if im in a ship i will just warp out ^^ , also i would love see how you put an ecm in the geddon, since usually there is very few cpu to use, and no... co-pro isnt a solution
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:06:00 - [49] Why is it us Amarr 'whiners' get ridiculed by everyone but it seems no one can prove any valid points against us? Hmm...my hunch is that were...I dont know, right?
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:07:00 - [50] Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 23/06/2006 16:07:52 Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Imperial Coercion Obviously you dont fly Amarr. thank the gods I don't. I prefer to think a bit more about my setups with gallente and minmatar tyvm Thanks, not get the **** out of this and any other Amarr thread. edit : I apolagize, I was too harsh. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:08:00 - [51] Originally by: korrey Dominix vs Apoc. Dominix can EMC you to death, Yeah, damnit, I hate it when those pesty Dominix's get all Einstein on my ass. --------------------- Sig to come soonish.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:09:00 - [52] Seings they cant win any reasnable argument they now revert to the humor.
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:11:00 - [53] Originally by: korrey Yet if you post a 'How do I fit my mauler' thread on here you'll get a setup that involves frig guns and a 1600mm plate. Yet another non-Amarr pilot? I agree, no other setups have ever been posted about the maller . Just because someone posts a setup on the boards and says it works well does not mean that a ship is best used with that setup, try a heavy duity resistance tank with focused pulse and I think you will not be disapointed. A rax may be able to break your tank while tanking your damage but outside of a select few super dps cruisers you should be ok, no ship is able to counter every ship.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:11:00 - [54] Now on to the point. Either: A- Give us an amarr ship that doesnt consist of drones or the armageddon, that will win in any sort of pvp. or B- Please leave the thread.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:12:00 - [55] Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Bentguru Edited by: Bentguru on 23/06/2006 15:47:53 As an amarr specced pilot, I can assure you that amarr does not suck. Geddon was and still is a terrific mid-range ship. Curse is omgwtfpwn, to put it lightly. Arbitrator can be scary if used well, I regularly own thoraxs with it. Crusader is an awesome inty. Apoc is a long range beast, and coupled with nospoc is very scary indeed. Zealot is definitely one of the better HACs. Pilgrim is like a mini-curse, so is also pwn. Lasers do more DPS then any other weapon. I fail to see why people are whining. Probably because they're under the delusion that their megapulse geddon should get right up against that blasterthron, or other such nonsense. Here's an idea, the geddon can fit 5 heavy drones. Stick 4 beserker II's and a webber drone in there. Keep your quarry at 20-28km range (depending if you have nos or not), and slam his ass with 3 types of damage while he runs around like an idiot with his head cut off because his blasters couldn't hit a moon at that range. And look, now you have an extra mid slot to fit a multispec or ECCM in! So go shove that domi pwnmobiles noses and ECM up it's ass You showed the "good" amarr ships, very nice. Now do the same with our sucky ships please. I also want to ask you how you want to prevent your enemy from warping . If someone else is tackling for you, yeah geddon is supreme in groups. I want to see how you beat a decent domi pilot in your geddon, really I want to see, maybe I can learn something? Admittedly amarr cruisers are generally weak, barring t2 variations. The omen and maller aren't very good, even when set up well. Personally I think the khanid ships are fine atm, but i'm biased simply because I like the color scheme. I just get irate when people color the Amarr as completely worthless. Because they're not. Our cruisers, baring the arb, are weak, our frigates and BS can still pwn. As to the domi, If you can keep it out of nos range with a webber drone your vastly improving your chances. Tanking the drones isn't particularly hard in and of itself, but it's impossible when your getting hit by 3 hvy nos as well. The ECM is annoying, but an ECCM goes a long way to beating 2 multi-specs, or you can put ECM of your own in the free mid slot. This isn't to say the domi isn't easy to kill, but it's certainly doable. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:13:00 - [56] Amarr do suck. I think the dev's decided to punish them for breaking PvP with gankageddons for so long.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:15:00 - [57] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Amarr do suck. I think the dev's decided to punish them for breaking PvP with gankageddons for so long. I reckon Amarr were powerful for so long because TomB was a minny pilot and he didn't want to be seen making his own ships uber. Now we have Tuxford he's free to nerf away. In fact, I would say Tux uses either Amarr or Caldari ships as Gallente and Minny are getting boosts :P TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Gaiam	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:17:00 - [58] tomb has a pilot in each race not just a minnie guy, he plays amarr ships too. i cant remember if he has said if he has a favorite race or not.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:18:00 - [59] Originally by: Stanis Edited by: Stanis on 23/06/2006 16:16:42 Hey I want my Thorax boosted bcs when I fit 1600mm plate I can't put all 5 Neutron Blaster but only 3. And this way my fit isn't realy nice looking and simetrical so I want boost. now. as in in 5 min. Hey I want your thorax nerfed. SO that you cant fit a full set of t2 guns and a tank. KTHNX(and hopefully)BYE! Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Angus McLein	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:19:00 - [60] Originally by: Stanis Edited by: Stanis on 23/06/2006 16:16:42 Hey I want my Thorax boosted bcs when I fit 1600mm plate I can't put all 5 Neutron Blaster but only 3. And this way my fit isn't realy nice looking and simetrical so I want boost. now. as in in 5 min. Funny. Too bad for some ungodly reason a thorax with an 800mm plate beats a maller with a 1600mm plate. How does that work I wonder?
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:21:00 - [61] Originally by: Bentguru Admittedly amarr cruisers are generally weak, barring t2 variations. The omen and maller aren't very good, even when set up well. Personally I think the khanid ships are fine atm, but i'm biased simply because I like the color scheme. I just get irate when people color the Amarr as completely worthless. Because they're not. Our cruisers, baring the arb, are weak, our frigates and BS can still pwn. As to the domi, If you can keep it out of nos range with a webber drone your vastly improving your chances. Tanking the drones isn't particularly hard in and of itself, but it's impossible when your getting hit by 3 hvy nos as well. The ECM is annoying, but an ECCM goes a long way to beating 2 multi-specs, or you can put ECM of your own in the free mid slot. This isn't to say the domi isn't easy to kill, but it's certainly doable. Our frigates suffer HEAVILY from the high powergrid requirements of small lasers! You want to tell me that your crusader is able to pwn decent crow/claw/taranis pilots? How much hp does this little Berserker SW-900 webber drone have(?), and how long will it take the decent (we dont calculate with noobs.) domi pilot to realise that he needs to kill this drone? If he does not jamm you all of the time and go in for the kill after your berserker SW- 900 popped, he will simply warp out because we are calculating that he is out of nos range, thus 20km+. You brought the points, I nuked them, bring me new ones.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:22:00 - [62] Originally by: Sniser lots of stuff ummm, since when were amarr drone ships not counted as amarr ships? This is a whine about amarr ships in GENERAL. Not "amarr laser-based ships suck" or "amarr ships suck to solo in" (which I do agree with), but an "OMG WTF AMARR SUCKS ** YOU DEVS!" My entire point is to PLAY TO AMARR STRENGTHS. Your geddon shot NOT be 5km away from that blasterthron. You should USE DRONES if you have the space. In every single one of these threads I hear people whining about how an amarr ship isn't able to win in some dumb ass overmatch situation that, tbh, it shouldn't be able to win in anyway. I love almost every single amarr whiner picks and chooses exactly what he wants to whine about and completely ignores the fact that amarr ships, like the curse, pilgrim, sader, geddon (especially in groups), etc will do **loads of damage if used correctly. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Shoele Lialos	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:23:00 - [63] Originally by: korrey This thread is also not another Amarr complaint thread. If thats what it turns into then Ill delete it. and Quote: Or too busy making Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente better? and Quote: Amarr are terrible? Do you even fly amarr?[\quote] How is this not another Amarr complaint thread from the get go?
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:24:00 - [64] Funny how the farther we go the less people post because they cant find somethng that actually works on our ships. Oh and to Angus Mclein, Thorax's dont even need an 800mm plate to kill a maller.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:25:00 - [65] Originally by: Tassi Our frigates suffer HEAVILY from the high powergrid requirements of small lasers! You want to tell me that your crusader is able to pwn decent crow/claw/taranis pilots? How much hp does this little Berserker SW-900 webber drone have(?), and how long will it take the decent (we dont calculate with noobs.) domi pilot to realise that he needs to kill this drone? If he does not jamm you all of the time and go in for the kill after your berserker SW- 900 popped, he will simply warp out because we are calculating that he is out of nos range, thus 20km+. You brought the points, I nuked them, bring me new ones. Notice the rather important part where I said IT WASN'T EASY BUT IT COULD BE DONE. You nuked nothing but your own intelligence. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:27:00 - [66] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Sarmaul In fact, I would say Tux uses either Amarr Common, youre smarter than that. (My sarcasm detector is broken I think, if so forgive me) Yes, I was being sarcastic :) TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:27:00 - [67] Originally by: Bentguru Originally by: Sniser lots of stuff ummm, since when were amarr drone ships not counted as amarr ships? You---------------------------the point Quote: My entire point is to PLAY TO AMARR STRENGTHS. Your geddon shot NOT be 5km away from that blasterthron. Lets all fit mwd then! Oh no.....wait. Quote: In every single one of these threads I hear people whining about how an amarr ship isn't able to win in some dumb ass overmatch situation that, tbh, it shouldn't be able to win in anyway. Overmatch...are you being dense on purpose? Quote: curse, pilgrim Good ships. Quote: sader Its CRUSADER. And they are good for flying past gate camps. Any proper fitted crow or taranis will pwn a crusader hands down. Quote: geddon (especially in groups), You----------------------------------------------the point Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Stanis	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:27:00 - [68] Originally by: Angus McLein Originally by: Stanis Edited by: Stanis on 23/06/2006 16:16:42 Hey I want my Thorax boosted bcs when I fit 1600mm plate I can't put all 5 Neutron Blaster but only 3. And this way my fit isn't realy nice looking and simetrical so I want boost. now. as in in 5 min. Funny. Too bad for some ungodly reason a thorax with an 800mm plate beats a maller with a 1600mm plate. How does that work I wonder? Bcs it has 800mm plate and med guns?
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:27:00 - [69] Originally by: Bentguru ummm, since when were amarr drone ships not counted as amarr ships? This is a whine about amarr ships in GENERAL. Not "amarr laser-based ships suck" or "amarr ships suck to solo in" (which I do agree with), but an "OMG WTF AMARR SUCKS ** YOU DEVS!" My entire point is to PLAY TO AMARR STRENGTHS. Your geddon shot NOT be 5km away from that blasterthron. You should USE DRONES if you have the space. In every single one of these threads I hear people whining about how an amarr ship isn't able to win in some dumb ass overmatch situation that, tbh, it shouldn't be able to win in anyway. I love almost every single amarr whiner picks and chooses exactly what he wants to whine about and completely ignores the fact that amarr ships, like the curse, pilgrim, sader, geddon (especially in groups), etc will do **loads of damage if used correctly. I agree Amarr drone ships are considered Amarr. The only reason we exclude the is because Curses and Pilgrims and Armageddons are the only ships that dont suck horribly at pvp. Therefore why discuss ships that are already pretty good as compared to ships that cant fight there way out of a paper bag?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:28:00 - [70] Christ even the Gallente fanbois don't cry as much as this. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:28:00 - [71] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Sarmaul In fact, I would say Tux uses either Amarr Common, youre smarter than that. (My sarcasm detector is broken I think, if so forgive me) Yes, I was being sarcastic :) I bow my head in shame Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Selak Zorander	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:28:00 - [72] Originally by: korrey Best armor tank in the game? LOL how long have you been playing? Or at least when was the last time you logged on? Dominix vs Apoc. Dominix can EMC you to death, NOS you to death, drone you to death and STILL have the same tank as an apoc. you say a domi can fit the same tank as an apoc huh? Find a set-up where a domi can fit ecm in the mids, and run a 2 large armor rep tank forever. note that it should be able to run all its ecm as well. An Apoc with skill can easily do that, and run its weapons to. Yes the apoc will have to turn weapons off to stop nos from killing its cap, but it would take 6 or more to actually kill its cap and as a beam ship, you keep out of nos range of said domi and you have no problems at all while the domi prolly needs the nos to keep all its stuff running. yes amarr has some ships that are not the greats but hey NEWS FLASH, every race has tech 1 ships that blow so dont think you are alone in that matter. Until the last patch, the Typhoon for instance sucked as a battleship and most people used a set-up that involved ignoring all the bonuses on it. I bet you dont fly any other ships at all, why dont you try anothers race's ships before you run to the forums crying "boo hoo my ships suck....mommy make my ships the uberest again so i can win." As for wierda, i know wierda is both Amarr and Minmatar specialized so i would be willing to bet that wierda knows a thing or two about amarr ships. As for minmatar ships having great tanks, maybe they can have one for short periods of time before they run out of cap boosters. otherwise they do not have the cap or the cap recharge to run a decent tank. So what if the weapons use no cap to fire, that still does not help when minmatar have the smallest cap size in game. While i will conceed that there are some ships that may suck royally in the amarr race, I will not conceed that amarr is the bottom of the ladder in terms of the four races in eve. Every race has its bad eggs and they all have their strong points.
Angus McLein	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:28:00 - [73] Originally by: Shoele Lialos Originally by: korrey This thread is also not another Amarr complaint thread. If thats what it turns into then Ill delete it. and Quote: Or too busy making Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente better? and Quote: Amarr are terrible? Do you even fly amarr?[\quote] How is this not another Amarr complaint thread from the get go? Unless youve got something to prove then leave.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:28:00 - [74] Originally by: Bentguru Notice the rather important part where I said IT WASN'T EASY BUT IT COULD BE DONE. You nuked nothing but your own intelligence. It is hard to kill a titan with an ibis, but it definitly could be done. Mhmmmmmm
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:31:00 - [75] Edited by: Bentguru on 23/06/2006 16:33:34 Originally by: Sarmaul Christ even the Gallente fanbois don't cry as much as this. It's embarassing really. Although it does help me in PVP, the more people thinking "Oh it's an amarr ship, it sucks, I'll try and kill it" the better. Less work tracking them down. @imperial: Show me where the OP said anything other than "omg amarr all suck." I find it utterly hilarious that you completely disregard every situation in which amarr ships excell, and instead focus on every worse case situation you can think of. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:32:00 - [76] I don't see what's wrong with Amarr...Exept Khanid ships. They got hevay tank, better damage types than Gallente (Kin/Therm=most tanked damage types EVER. Granted we get drones, but many Amarr ship have big drone bays too and unless the ship's a dorne carrier drones don't affect dps that much), NO AMMO, allmost no reload time, uber tankage, some great gank ships (geddon, Zealot), and a BS gun that's bigger than all other race's (Tachyons). Oh and did I allready mention NO AMMO? Yup...Really sucky...Please devs, give the Amarr some ranged nuclear weapons, XXL guns on every ship and lasergs that fart fire. They are the God's choosen rase after all. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
CardboardSword42	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:34:00 - [77] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Stanis Edited by: Stanis on 23/06/2006 16:16:42 Hey I want my Thorax boosted bcs when I fit 1600mm plate I can't put all 5 Neutron Blaster but only 3. And this way my fit isn't realy nice looking and simetrical so I want boost. now. as in in 5 min. Hey I want your thorax nerfed. SO that you cant fit a full set of t2 guns and a tank. KTHNX(and hopefully)BYE! It already can't. 5 Heavy Ion IIs MWD , Web Scram 3 Mag Field Stabs, a damage control and a Small armor rep There is a damage build for a thorax. Even if you dropped the 3 damage mods for 3 EANMs, you're still stuck with a small rep unless you use a fitting mod. You also can't fit a full rack of heavy neutrons and a mwd without a fitting mod. I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool But now I'm KOS and it's all about the manlove
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:35:00 - [78] Originally by: Bentguru @imperial: Show me where the OP said anything other than "omg amarr all suck." I dont belive thats what I said. Feel free to quote me. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Selak Zorander An Apoc with skill can easily do that, and run its weapons to. ---- Anything with 'skills' can do just about anything----- yes amarr has some ships that are not the greats.... ---You mean all off them save the armageddon curse and pilgrim?------ Until the last patch, the Typhoon for instance sucked as a battleship and most people used a set-up that involved ignoring all the bonuses on it. ------The tempest made up for that distance. During that period people didnt even remember that minmatar HAD 2 battleships. Thats how good the tempest was.------ I bet you dont fly any other ships at all, why dont you try anothers race's ships before you run to the forums crying "boo hoo my ships suck....mommy make my ships the uberest again so i can win." ------I fly caldari and Gallente BS. And tbh I like them more. You know why? Becuse amarr sucks. I love the megathron. I love the scorpion. I extra love the Dominix. I WISH i COULD love the amarr apoc but not until it gets a boost. ------------
Stanis	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:44:00 - [80] Edited by: Stanis on 23/06/2006 16:44:37 I think some ppl didn't get what I wanted to say bcs I kinda flamed. But I was trying to be sarcasting when I wrote the "5xneutron blasters+1600mm plate" post :). I agree Ammar need a sligth boost in maybe dmg, or cap or something that will make them better in some way but whining for change that will make it the same as other races ships is retarded and I'll always hope those kind of ppl die before they spamz0r the forum :P. edit : I just sawy that (me n00b :D) maller has 6-3-6 and more PG then Thorax and you ppl are whining? I bet a good Ammar pilot could take standard thorax down in his Maller anytime :P.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:44:00 - [81] Originally by: Bentguru Edited by: Bentguru on 23/06/2006 16:41:02 Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Bentguru @imperial: Show me where the OP said anything other than "omg amarr all suck." I dont belive thats what I said. Feel free to quote me. OP = Origional Poster. Not you. And thats exactly what he said, learn to read please. Hell, I never even quoted what you said in any of my points. Little self absorbed? I can read pretty well thanks. You claimed that I somehow tried to argue against Quote: Show me where the OP said anything other than "omg amarr all suck." Ball is in your court. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
blood red	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:44:00 - [82] bentguru imperial is korreys main im thinking. he may have got a bit confused.
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:45:00 - [83] Originally by: korrey Its not just 'what tommy said to do' its the universal understood thing to do on a maller. If you get a maller and put anything other than a 1600mm plate people will say 'wtf is wrong with you? thats a tanking ship.' And another example of being a broken race is the fact that the ABSOLUTE best setup I can come up with for a maller involves using Minmatar AC's. That in itself proves amarr are perfectly fine right? Ever try a cap injected dbl rep resistance setup? 1x MARII and 1x SARII, combine it with close to 80% resistance across the board and you are looking at a ship that is close to unkillable by most cruisers. By not using a plate you save enough grid to fit a rack of heavy an focused pulse lasers along with a small energy nuet, this allows you to hit targets more than 20k away with scorch and break 200 dps with conflag. Small energy nuet does not do a whole lot but does give you a hand when trying to break a tank.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:45:00 - [84] Thanks Bentguru. I would have said it myself to the noob but im going to make a pizza.
God forbid	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:46:00 - [85] Im Only amarr And Im allways thinking how lucky Im. Please ppl stop whining and start thinking out of the box.. Amarr Rule tbh.. Quote: "He did not know, Who he was ******* with."
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:46:00 - [86] Originally by: blood red bentguru imperial is korreys main im thinking. he may have got a bit confused. Thinking and beliving let alone speculating is something you can do while in church. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:48:00 - [87] Originally by: blood red bentguru imperial is korreys main im thinking. he may have got a bit confused. Lol and you must be TomB's alt. Too bad if you view other forums you'll find me and Imperium dissagreeing. That sounds like what someone with an alt would do to prove there point... Go to Jita and train Common sense to level 2 before coming back to this thread.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:48:00 - [88] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Bentguru OP = Origional Poster. Not you. And thats exactly what he said, learn to read please. Hell, I never even quoted what you said in any of my points. Little self absorbed? Well yes thats what I said so I apologize for that, let me re-state that... 'Apart from the Armageddon, Curse, and Pilgrim, Amarr sucks.' Any better? I'd disagree on a few other ships, like the arb, but I'd agree that in general amarr cruisers are fairly weak. And being locked into 2 damage types isn't the best. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:49:00 - [89] Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 23/06/2006 16:49:57 Originally by: Stanis Edited by: Stanis on 23/06/2006 16:44:37 I think some ppl didn't get what I wanted to say bcs I kinda flamed. But I was trying to be sarcasting when I wrote the "5xneutron blasters+1600mm plate" post :). I agree Ammar need a sligth boost in maybe dmg, or cap or something that will make them better in some way but whining for change that will make it the same as other races ships is retarded and I'll always hope those kind of ppl die before they spamz0r the forum :P. edit : I just sawy that (me n00b :D) maller has 6-3-6 and more PG then Thorax and you ppl are whining? If you felt flamed by me then I apolagize. Its just that there has been so many threads and so many poeple entering only to be smart asses so its hard to keep cool at all times. Quote: I bet a good Ammar pilot could take standard thorax down in his Maller anytime :P. Good thorax pilot>good maller pilot. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:54:00 - [90] Yeah Bentguru sorry I missed the arbi. I do agree the amarr drone ships are amaznig. But once we get into the em and thermal damage types and the omen and maller and so on, we realize that amarr cruiser and apoc and frigates need lots of ove to ever even think about pvp.
Stanis	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:56:00 - [91] np I got it, that's why I wrote this last post. Even I flamed :D I just want to point one thing to you about the Maller <-> Thorax thingy, though it isn't the subject of this topic. Maller has TWO more slot (one low, and one high) and more PG then Thorax. So basicly what you are saying is that two slot on a ships < 5 medium drones in Drone bay?
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:56:00 - [92] Originally by: God forbid Im Only amarr And Im allways thinking how lucky Im. Please ppl stop whining and start thinking out of the box.. Amarr Rule tbh.. We know that amarr are proud people. To say our ships may suck is like saying we have small ****s. But mate, this is a group therapy, you are allowed to whine here. Don't hide behind your pride, show us your tears.
CardboardSword42	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:57:00 - [93] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: CardboardSword42 It already can't. 5 Heavy Ion IIs MWD , Web Scram 3 Mag Field Stabs, a damage control and a Small armor rep There is a damage build for a thorax. Even if you dropped the 3 damage mods for 3 EANMs, you're still stuck with a small rep unless you use a fitting mod. You also can't fit a full rack of heavy neutrons and a mwd without a fitting mod. Oh the luxury of fitting t2 guns, web, scram, damage mods AND mwd. Omen: 4 Med Pulse IIs MWD II, Web Scram 3 Heat Sink IIs, Medium armor Rep, Adaptive Nano Plating II Maller: 5 Med Pulse II, Med Nos MWD II, web scram 3 Heat Sink IIs, Med Armor Rep, Adaptive Nano II, Reactive II I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool But now I'm KOS and it's all about the manlove
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:57:00 - [94] Edited by: Bentguru on 23/06/2006 16:59:18 Originally by: Imperial Coercion Ball is in your court. ummm, no? Where exactly have you said anything other than varitions on "WAAA WAAA WAAA!!! I WANT ATTENTION!!! WAAA! WAAA!" Please, prove me wrong. QUOTE ME a post in this thread where you have actually said anything about how amarr are weak in any area. Anything pertaining to how an amarr ship is lacking in a department. The only thing you've said that comes remotely close is a variation on "crusader sucks." There's isn't a ball in my court, there isn't a ball at all. Try actually making a post beyound the mental intelligence of a 5 year old crying because somebody took his candy and maybe I'll pay attention to it. You continually make allusions to "The Point" when you've contributed absolutely nothing to this thread other than more whining from idiot amarrs without the intelligence needed to fly their ships effectively. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:01:00 - [95] Edited by: Tassi on 23/06/2006 17:01:49 @Bentguru: there is already a thread on the first page with some amarr discussion and a couple of good points http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=355283
CardboardSword42	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:02:00 - [96] I do agree with the Amarr whines on two points: Omen needs a damage improvement over the maller Frigate guns need to have their fitting looked at. I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool But now I'm KOS and it's all about the manlove
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:08:00 - [97] Originally by: Bentguru ummm, no? Where exactly have you said anything other than varitions on "WAAA WAAA WAAA!!! I WANT ATTENTION!!! WAAA! WAAA!" FFS, youre a total troll. Here you go You : Quote: @imperial: Show me where the OP said anything other than "omg amarr all suck." ME : Quote: I dont belive thats what I said. Feel free to quote me. You : Quote: OP = Origional Poster. Not you. And thats exactly what he said, learn to read please. Hell, I never even quoted what you said in any of my points. Little self absorbed? Me : Quote: I can read pretty well thanks. You claimed that I somehow tried to argue against that You see, here I was forced to use a * because you have problems with a simple thread timeline. Quote: mmm, no? Where exactly have you said anything other than varitions on "WAAA WAAA WAAA!!! I WANT ATTENTION!!! WAAA! WAAA!" You posted rubbish, I quoted you and posted arguements against your ill informed rubbish. If you cant see this then I will petition to have your parents credit card blocked. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:13:00 - [98] Well im back...I can see everything went well. Oh and A maller with 4 Medium Pulse II's and with your low slot setup would get murdered by a thorax or just about any other cruiser.
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:16:00 - [99] I honestly think the only class of amarr ships that needs to be looked into are cruisers. The apoc has arguably the strongest tank of any BS, and the Geddon is one of the best mid range or long range fleet ships available in the game. Both the Omen and Maller have issues however I think people tend to make their problems seem far more game breaking than they actually are. The Maller is the most durable of any cruiser, and the omen is an excelent mid range dps platform, it also works well as a long range anti frig platform as well. Personally I think the only changes that are needed are a small cpu increse on the maller (no more than 10%), and a little bit more grid on the omen.
Cruz	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:18:00 - [100] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe I honestly think the only class of amarr ships that needs to be looked into are cruisers. The apoc has arguably the strongest tank of any BS, and the Geddon is one of the best mid range or long range fleet ships available in the game. Both the Omen and Maller have issues however I think people tend to make their problems seem far more game breaking than they actually are. The Maller is the most durable of any cruiser, and the omen is an excelent mid range dps platform, it also works well as a long range anti frig platform as well. Personally I think the only changes that are needed are a small cpu increse on the maller (no more than 10%), and a little bit more grid on the omen. Please tell me what makes the Apocs tank any better then a dominixs? Or a Megathrons? Or an Armageddons? The CAP? Use a cap booster and your cap regen is worthless. Apoc should get its cap bonus switched to a resist bonus imo. --------------------------- For the glory of the empire!
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:23:00 - [101] Originally by: Bentguru Originally by: Sniser lots of stuff ummm, since when were amarr drone ships not counted as amarr ships? lots of stuff nice the problem is with amarr gun ships? ^^ boo boo eanm t2 , fitting issues etc?
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:23:00 - [102] And the Omen, or as you call it 'mid range dps beast' couldnt PvP an osprey with Miner II's. The ship isnt any DPS cruiser its a worthless support cruiser that is no good unless youve got at least a gang of 5 and a tanking ship.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:27:00 - [103] Originally by: Tassi Edited by: Tassi on 23/06/2006 17:01:49 @Bentguru: there is already a thread on the first page with some amarr discussion and a couple of good points http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=355283 yeah, i know, i've generally kept out of it because I agree with the good points. And Yes, I'm a huge troll. Look at imperials well reasoned first post in this thread! Originally by: Imperial You dropped out of high school didnt you? And my, completely obvious flamebait. Originally by: Bentguru As an amarr specced pilot, I can assure you that amarr does not suck. Geddon was and still is a terrific mid-range ship. Curse is omgwtfpwn, to put it lightly. Arbitrator can be scary if used well, I regularly own thoraxs with it. Crusader is an awesome inty. Apoc is a long range beast, and coupled with nospoc is very scary indeed. Zealot is definitely one of the better HACs. Pilgrim is like a mini-curse, so is also pwn. Lasers do more DPS then any other weapon. I fail to see why people are whining. Probably because they're under the delusion that their megapulse geddon should get right up against that blasterthron, or other such nonsense. Here's an idea, the geddon can fit 5 heavy drones. Stick 4 beserker II's and a webber drone in there. Keep your quarry at 20-28km range (depending if you have nos or not), and slam his ass with 3 types of damage while he runs around like an idiot with his head cut off because his blasters couldn't hit a moon at that range. And look, now you have an extra mid slot to fit a multispec or ECCM in! So go shove that domi pwnmobiles noses and ECM up it's ass Yes, I cannot believe I wrote something so-non helpful and flamey! Lets add these gems too. Originally by: Imperial Coercion Overmatch...are you being dense on purpose? You----------------------------------------------the point Yep Imperial was being nice the entire time! Why, he even corrected me on my distance from the point without ever saying what it was! And commented on my mental density too! Seriously imp. Your not argueing. Your posts are all varitions of "you're an idiot." I'm not a troll, I didn't start by insulting people. That was your terratory from the beginning. If anybody is being intentionally dense it's you since your acting like your actually making arguements and refuting my points when your only using the standard "No.. You Suck!" approach I last saw in middle school. My challenge still stands, quote me where you reasoned out why amarr was lacking in any area. Seriously, show me where you actually said something along the lines of "I disagree, XXX ship sucks because it doesn't have enough XXX compared to XXX.. etc etc." Quote it and i'll leave. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:28:00 - [104] Edited by: Grimpak on 23/06/2006 17:30:07 ok ok lots of flamage going on (in part my fault too. I apologise for that). to the amarr guys that want changes in the amarr ships: backup them with numbers and a VALID and CLEAR reason about it. oh and FYI, this is just a few facts from my experience: - amarr are supposed to be laser ***s with big tanks and low versatility (read: few mids), or so I learned in my 2 and half years of eve. - lasers already have built-in damage mods. now with those 2 points start discussing with some backing up please (my attempt to be civil omg!) ------- Originally by:** Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
CardboardSword42	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:29:00 - [105] Originally by: korrey Well im back...I can see everything went well. Oh and A maller with 4 Medium Pulse II's and with your low slot setup would get murdered by a thorax or just about any other cruiser. I was using that to show that you can fit t2 guns, a mwd, damage mods and a better tank than the thorax. It doesn't get a damage bonus so there are better builds that play to its strengths. The thorax cannot gank and tank. Imperial responded by saying it was some sort of miracle that it could fit t2 guns, a mwd and damage mods. These builds show that amarr cruisers are capable of doing the same. I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool But now I'm KOS and it's all about the manlove
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:29:00 - [106] Edited by: Grimpak on 23/06/2006 17:29:32 wtf? DP! ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:29:00 - [107] Do any of these thread starters consider the fact that they're just wrong? --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:32:00 - [108] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 23/06/2006 17:30:07 ok ok lots of flamage going on (in part my fault too. I apologise for that). to the amarr guys that want changes in the amarr ships: backup them with numbers and a VALID and CLEAR reason about it. oh and FYI, this is just a few facts from my experience: - amarr are supposed to be laser *****s with big tanks and low versatility (read: few mids), or so I learned in my 2 and half years of eve. - lasers already have built-in damage mods. now with those 2 points start discussing with some backing up please (my attempt to be civil omg!) amen to this post. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:35:00 - [109] brb. Im going to the test server, using your setup. and im going to duel a thorax (about as much sp as I have and see what happens).
Kyozoku	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:46:00 - [110] What the hell does a 3 month old character know about game balance? He's a member of isdf to boot! I'd wager the only thing he knows about pvp is being on the recieving end of it.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:46:00 - [111] Originally by: Bentguru Yep Imperial was being nice the entire time! Why, he even corrected me on my distance from the point without ever saying what it was! Because it has been repeated a trillion times in 3 seperate, no make that 4 seperate threads. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:47:00 - [112] Originally by: Kyozoku What the hell does a 3 month old character know about game balance? Wow......amazing. Are you new to EVE? Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:49:00 - [113] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Because it has been repeated a trillion times in 3 seperate, no make that 4 seperate threads. Ever heard of that saying about assuming? I'm talking about this thread, and this thread only. Contrary to to popular opinion I don't forum ***** much. So if your trying to make a point, actually post or link to it, else I'm going to assume you're a moron and treat you as such. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:49:00 - [114] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/06/2006 17:51:28 Hmm. 5 pages in less than 3 hours . --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Kery Nysell	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:50:00 - [115] Edited by: Kery Nysell on 23/06/2006 17:51:59 Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Do any of these thread starters consider the fact that they're just wrong? Of course not After reading all five pages (and I'm sure much more will follow), I think it's a case of "WAAAAAAAA I want an Amarr I-WIN Button WAAAAAAA" ... but the Devs have repeatedly stated that they don't want such things in their game. EDIT : damn, new page while I was typing ...
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.23 17:54:00 - [116] Originally by: korrey This thread is for the Devs only. If none answer the oh well, I guess back to Battlefield 2 or World of Warcraft. This thread is also not another Amarr complaint thread. If thats what it turns into then Ill delete it. Devs, Tux, I dont care who. Dont you even see anything going on in these forums? Or too busy making Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente better? What the ** is wrong with you? Theres only 4 races in the game. 1 of them is insanely good. 2 of them are fairly good and even better with higher skills. 1 of them also sucks so morbidly its rediculous. Do you not see this? I would like a response from the devs. Just 1 if thats all you can give. But answer these. Why do you respond when something insignificant needs fixing but when 1 WHOLE race is screwed you dissapear? And why hasnt someone even once, just 'Confirmed' that Amarr are terrible? Do you even fly amarr? Have you even looked at them in the last month? I can see, whether it bee Customer support or just game developement...Eve is not the game for me. Its fun but things that need fixing most just arent getting done. A newbie/faceless alt doesn't really have the grounds to complain so harshly, and for the record, amarrr are/were fine. Maybe you never got hit by a gangageddon, but it wasn't very plesant, hell tach-gank setups can still hurt like a ***. If they were going to make Caldari better, they'd have given the Hawk a ROF bonus, instead of making it a niche ship with one, and only one purpose, and that's fighting inties, because any other AF is going to break it, and that boost bonus won't save them from an anti frig cruiser.
Bob Niac	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:00:00 - [117] i ask that this tread be /clicked thank you ICSC Sales Forum
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:18:00 - [118] Originally by: Bentguru Ever heard of that saying about assuming? Sayings is for old wimen. And you obviously. Quote: I don't forum ***** much You should. It might stop you from coming of as a complete ignoranus. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:23:00 - [119] Originally by: Angus McLein Personally I think hes right. As follows. ...Do you fly Amarr wierda? Probably not. And if you do youve probably got amarr frigate 1 and thinks the Executioner pwns all. Seriously though, I fly caldari and Gallente up to BS so adapting isnt much of a problem. are you joking? yes - weirda specialize in amarr AND minmatar. so don't make assumptions. have been doing it for longer too - so probably why understand that you just have to MAKE a ship class work for you (it have NEVER done that on it own). the reason that this is crap, is that weirda have killed armor tanked Minmatar HAC since stacking nerf SOLO (actually it was weirda vs HAC AND their tackler - killed them both)... and not just once either (that happened to be the sweetest one though). and weirda was in NPC setup (LOL) - though always npc with a scrambler just in case... these were highly skilled pilots too, look it up if you want (not going to name/shame because that is not weirda's game... weirda didn't post those kills, they did). Quote: The problem is that numerous people eaech day are singing up to play EVE and at some of them choose amarr. So they get started in an amarr character, realize they suckr and either quite eve or if their smart, switch races. Not how you want you MMORPG to be played having people leaeve just because there main race is craptastic. And people have been paying $15 a month to spec in amarr with millions of sp in amarr ships and weapons...noly to find there many months of training and RL money were worthless. Again not a way you want your MMORPG to be played. this is where you are wrong. all that these whine post do is contribute to people thinking that they suck when they don't. when weirda signed up as minmatar just before they changed tracking (which hit minmatar hardest btw)... suddenly forum was awash with this kind of crap. honestly - seeing post about this or that suck, just make weirda want to try harder. as any good pilot will. now you have a lot of ppl being convinced that 'amarr ships sucks' when really they don't. tbh - that is the biggest advantage you can have in split second combat. too many pilot fly the flavour ship/setup of the month/week/year and jump from ship to ship like... well not gonna post bannable analogy... they wonder why they can only get cheap kills. they fish out of water every time they board their ship. if you are young, and you are amarr - stick with it. forum noise != reality on TQ. __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Red Six	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:25:00 - [120] Why does everyone want a solo pwnmobile? Someone has as their signature a quote from Oveur that states something about battleships should not be that. Yet everytime one of these threads come around that is what everyone starts whining about. I can't beat X with Y solo. So what? Get a gang and work together. Domi got you NOS'd to death? Get an interdictor friend to bubble him up drop a few web drones on him and sit out in a tachageddon and BBQ him. No ship is perfect neither is a single race perfect. Some do better in fleets, I'm sure Krystal will scream if you mess up here Apoc, she's number 2 or 3 on the BoB killboard for all time kills and she flies an Apoc for the most part. She's very good at using a SnipApoc to roast people. It's not a Tempest but the SnipApoc has a good Alpha strike and decent rate of fire. Slap a gang together around them and you'll do just as well as if you had the same number of Tempests. You know what I really find funny is the lack of complaints in this thread from the Amarr roleplayer corps. If anyone knows how to setup and fly these ships they do and yet where are their complaints. When there have been issues with things they do come here and make their opinions know and they have not come in to complain. Mind you I haven't read all the Amarr is broken threads but the ones I have I don't recall seeing CVA or AM pilots in them, think on that for a second or two.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:38:00 - [121] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Bentguru Ever heard of that saying about assuming? Sayings is for old wimen. And you obviously. Quote: I don't forum ***** much You should. It might stop you from coming of as a complete ignoranus. And having 2 brain cells might prevent you from being a complete idiot. Oh woe to me, I actually have a life outside of the eve-forums and don't read every single thread! Seriously, do you even have a job? Go outside, have a life, do something other than forum whoring. Like a class on arguementative structure for example... -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:39:00 - [122] Originally by: korrey Yet if you post a 'How do I fit my mauler' thread on here you'll get a setup that involves frig guns and a 1600mm plate. Yet another non-Amarr pilot? you will not see anything on weirda amarr cruiser except medium (heavy) guns thank you (well, except the arbi). beginning to think fly a lot more amarr then the OP. stop looking for cookie cutter forum setup... look at the ship, and fit it. it pretty easy to tell the setup that is 'intended' for almost every ship in game. funny part is that the cookie cutter setup generally ignore that. try that. the 1600mm plate (duramaller) is a mission/npc setup ffs... of course it sucks for pvp. you want setups - find them youself. it not that hard... (not talking about on the forums either). __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
steveid	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:49:00 - [123] TBH i dont know what your talking about. the apoc is still the best tanker in the game, the geddon still does silly damage, you got the crusader thats decent, the curse thats IMO the best force recon in the game. The arbitrator rocks, but the maller and omen arn't bad either. The prophecy is a great ship, as its its t2 version, and so i really am missing your point. Amarr isn't perfect. No race will ever be perfect, but when you compare it to minmetar for instance who's cruisers frigates bc's and there t2 versions pretty much suck i dont think your right. The claymore just cant compare to the other races, the huggin is so bad that most threads on how to set it up tell you not to bother, and the only ship thats widely used id the tempest (and maybe the rupture). The vaga is a good ship .. but so's the zealot. If you dont like amarr .. train another race, or sell your char on the forums and get yourself a new one. I'm amarr (and do use its ships) but i primarily use gallante cos i like em. And last thing, ofc this game will never be perfectly balanced. There will always be an i-win button, and at the moment people seem to think its caldari (altho imo its gallante). If it is caldari, i'd rather it stay that way, as there are far more caldari players than any other race, and so its MORE balanced than it would be if another race was uber. Oh, and heres a tissue.
Cruz	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:51:00 - [124] Originally by: steveid TBH i dont know what your talking about. the apoc is still the best tanker in the game Best PVE tanker maybe, otherwise no it's not. --------------------------- For the glory of the empire!
steveid	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:53:00 - [125] Originally by: Cruz Originally by: steveid TBH i dont know what your talking about. the apoc is still the best tanker in the game Best PVE tanker maybe, otherwise no it's not. that goes back to the bob guys point about wanting a ship that does everything. Trouble with that is if everyone had one the game would be dull. Each ship is good in its own niche.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:57:00 - [126] Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 23/06/2006 18:57:00 Originally by: Bentguru Oh woe to me, I actually have a life outside of the eve-forums Incase you didnt know this, this is about game balance. And if youre going to spout your silly little comments you should atleast be up to date. Clearly you are not. Quote: Seriously, do you even have a job? Go outside, have a life, do something other than forum whoring. Like a class on arguementative structure for example... I suspect youre merely a child that dont get enough attention from mom and dad and I have no desire in arguing with you any further. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:59:00 - [127] Amarr stop crying to your God for uber weapons and grow some Balls . With that said. CCP is always trying to Balance... There will always be a ship that out pawns all others. At this time some have come to believe that Amarr are the ones that are down and out. Maybe so but your ships are excellent at what they do, and I'm sure they will be uber once again for a short time before getting nerfed again. I believe I saw in a post some where that a zealot was soloing the frist lvl of a 10/10, maybe I'm thinking of another ship though. As for your weapons. Yes they only do 2 damage types however they do more damage than projectiles, not Alpha but DSP and Dot. Him what matter most here??? Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... I think thatÆs all that need to be said. Reading this forum has been fun. I'm glad the Amarr feel there precious God is neglecting them.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 18:59:00 - [128] Originally by: steveid TBH i dont know what your talking about. the apoc is still the best tanker in the game False. Well ok, it MIGHT be the best tanker as long as you dont activate any guns. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:01:00 - [129] Originally by: steveid the huggin is so bad that most threads on how to set it up tell you not to bother You lost all credibility with this quote. Try thinking outside the box... A huggin is not designed to be flown like the other recons, nor is it to be flown like a conventional tech 1 cruiser. You kite with it and pop inties, it has a role in gangs and it performs that role almost perfectly. I pretty much agree with the rest of your post. However I think you make minmatar out to be far worse than they actually are.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:05:00 - [130] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Incase you didnt know this, this is about game balance. And if youre going to spout your silly little comments you should atleast be up to date. Clearly you are not. Actually yes, the idea had occured to me. Which is why I have asked you repeatedly to state your view and/or reasoning, which you have failed to do over and over. I, on the other hand, have actually said something about the balancing. Originally by: Imperial Coercion I suspect youre merely a child that dont get enough attention from mom and dad and I have no desire in arguing with you any further. Translation: I'm loosing this arguement quickly and am trying to salvage what little self-esteem i have by trying to take the high moral road. You began flaming before i even entered the thread, fact. You flame me for my opinions saying, amoung other things, that I'm missing a "point" that you never produced, fact. You flame me when I take the only logical explanation to your responses (the point being the origional post) and point out how it is wrong, fact. So just go ahead and run away. To be honest I've tired of this converstaion myself, it's remarkably like headbutting a brick wall. I'm under no illusions that my posts will ever overcome your massive case of denial. I just have fun argueing with idiots. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:05:00 - [131] Originally by: Red Six Edited by: Red Six on 23/06/2006 18:29:45 Why does everyone want a solo pwnmobile? Someone has as their signature a quote from Oveur that states something about battleships should not be that. Yet everytime one of these threads come around that is what everyone starts whining about. I can't beat X with Y solo. So what? Get a gang and work together. Domi got you NOS'd to death? Get an interdictor friend to bubble him up drop a few web drones on him and sit out in a tachageddon and BBQ him. No ship is perfect neither is a single race perfect. Some do better in fleets, I'm sure Krystal will scream if you mess up here Apoc, she's number 2 or 3 on the BoB killboard for all time kills and she flies an Apoc for the most part. She's very good at using a SnipApoc to roast people. It's not a Tempest but the SnipApoc has a good Alpha strike and decent rate of fire. Slap a gang together around them and you'll do just as well as if you had the same number of Tempests. You know what I really find funny is the lack of complaints in this thread from the Amarr roleplayer corps. If anyone knows how to setup and fly these ships they do and yet where are their complaints. When there have been issues with things they do come here and make their opinions know and they have not come in to complain. Mind you I haven't read all the Amarr is broken threads but the ones I have I don't recall seeing CVA or AM pilots in them, think on that for a second or two. Edit: For the record I use Amarr BC and BS. I have a Tachageddon and a SnipeApoc in my hangar alongside my Tempests and Typhoon. I actually prefer the Prophecy over the Cyclone. Good points, more than worth a reply. The problem with the "Battleships shouldn't be solopwnmobiles" quote is that certain races recieve such "solopwnmobiles" but certain races don't. I think you get the point right? However, if the quote is "Amarr Battleships shouldn't be solopwnmobiles" I will just shut up. Some dude from PIE (Rod Blake, spelling?) already posted his views on the topic in the other thread, I would really advice you to read the other thread. Much better stuff in there. As of the people that say we should come up with numbers. Why should I do the work of the dev team? Tell me a reason? I just get me a gallente/caldari alt. Saves much hassle and you use the same tools like the other jerks and wtfpwn everything in your nosdomi. I play this game to have fun. Not to tell the developers how they should do their work. Most amarr issues are obvious, if you want a more detailed version you should look in the other thread I already linked to in another reply. Here some calculations from a really stupid guy: 1. EANM t2 tank increases your EM resists to approximatly to 80%, this reduces the dmg you do with EM by 50%. Cool eh? I don't think a graph is needed here. 2. Omen powergrid. If you fit 4x heavy pulse t2 you have grid for an afterburner. Increase by 200 - 250 and it could be a decent ship! 3. Small laser powergrid use: Some random AC on a claw: 2 powergrid, Gatling pulse t2 (lowest tier) 6 powergrid. Medium beam t2 uses 18 powergrid. 4 of those on your crusader = 72 powergrid, you get 50 pg with your sader and engineering V. 4. Crap t1 ships (this goes with 2. the omen powergrid): thorax/caracal/vexor/rupture are all better than the maller or the omen. I would chose one of the other cruiser over a omen/maller all the time. I don't know how I should make this up with calculations?! 5. T2 crystal cost: You have to carry 24 mill just on t2 crystals in your geddon. Absurd? Hell, yeah! 6. Damage types (goes with 1. EANM t2 tank): Lasers do to much EM damage, lasers also have Radio crystals (+60% optimal) which does only EM damage, pretty decent for fleet fight eh?
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:11:00 - [132] Originally by: Jet Collins Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... Exept both gallente and caldari have (useable) ships which use drones or missles as PRIMARY attack system, from frigates up to the BS lvl. Amarr have there the Arbitrator and thats about it. Unless you want to count the still gimped khanid ships. If those were made into actually useful missle specced ships we would be able to switch to other ships when we want/need to deal something else than em/therm, but right now this is not the case.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:31:00 - [133] Originally by: Bentguru I just have fun argueing with idiots. You must argue with yourself alot then. Because you are the biggest idiot here. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:34:00 - [134] Originally by: Jet Collins Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... The problem isn't the amount of damage types, it's the types themselves. EM has a natural 60% resist acroess ALL ships. It's like an active hardener that is always on. It royally screws over amarr frig vs frig combat and makes it absurdly easy to tank most amarr ships. All you need is an EAN and your up around 70ish resist to half the amarr damage. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:36:00 - [135] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Bentguru I just have fun argueing with idiots. You must argue with yourself alot then. Because you are the biggest idiot here. Again, the classic "No.. YOU suck" comeback. Either contribute to the thread or leave. You're only making yourself look worse. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Kyguard	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:37:00 - [136] Originally by: Red Six Why does everyone want a solo pwnmobile? We just want to be "equal" to other races. Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar have solopwnmobiles. But I guess I can understand this, most people aren't looking for game balance, but to see their race overpowered. === God is on the side with the best arti
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:39:00 - [137] Originally by: Bentguru Again, the classic "No.. YOU suck" comeback. Either contribute to the thread or leave. You're only making yourself look worse. Oh the irony. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:40:00 - [138] nearly ALL of this post is full of crap, total bull**. Amarr are a gimped race, they have problems at ALL T1 levels, and the amarr ships that are deemed good are drone boats more than laser boats [ie curse, arbitrator ect] the only one good t1 laser ship is the armageddon and that is crap solo, near impossible! if id known about amarr problems 9months ago id of pressed for amarr fix insted of blasters, the blasters/ac problems where nothing compaired to the amarr problems! -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent ***s
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:41:00 - [139] and can people who have never flown an amarr ship fitted with t2, or who have never sat down and looked at it on paper not post, which is basicly nearly all of you! -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:45:00 - [140] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Bentguru Again, the classic "No.. YOU suck" comeback. Either contribute to the thread or leave. You're only making yourself look worse. Oh the irony. dear god, please, keep going, say something else. I haven't had this much fun since I got in an arguement with a die-hard creationist. BTW: My challenge to you is still standing. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:45:00 - [141] Originally by: Bentguru Originally by: Jet Collins Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... The problem isn't the amount of damage types, it's the types themselves. EM has a natural 60% resist acroess ALL ships. It's like an active hardener that is always on. It royally screws over amarr frig vs frig combat and makes it absurdly easy to tank most amarr ships. All you need is an EAN and your up around 70ish resist to half the amarr damage. Ture and this maybe the disrepency with Ammar in PvP because most ships in PVP armor tank do to using its mids for EW. However I do not think it grants a change. The main reason (to my belive)that Ammar has these damage types is that they never have to reload thier weapons and they do significant damage compaired to other "guns". And come on they are Lasers after all :) you really expect a laser to do Kin or Explosive damage . But has I said and will stand by this and this will be my last post in this thread. CCP is always "trying" to balance. Every race has this time. At this time it jsut so happens its not Amarrs time. I have a felling once Kali comes it may change again though so just be patient.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:48:00 - [142] Originally by: Bentguru BTW: My challenge to you is still standing. Line em up and ill tear em down. so far we have you started by throwing subtile insults 'can you read' and me replying. Then when you get some of your own medicine you start crying and accusing me of flaming. Dont even bother replying, since my opinion of you have already been stated. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Asuzke Mitsugi	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:49:00 - [143] \0/ Page Six! OP : you are so wrong you don't even know it. Amarr is alive and well.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:51:00 - [144] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Dont even bother replying, since my opinion of you have already been stated. Lol I don't know why you even bothered talking to that guy in the first place. Clearly hes a nutter. Ignore him.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:52:00 - [145] Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi \0/ Page Six! OP : you are so wrong you don't even know it. Amarr is alive and well. Insted of posting bull like that, tell us what *** amarr ship pawns and give us a setup u moron the amarr have the gedden, a great group ship, total crap solo then they have the arbitrator which is a DRONE ship, not lasers so does that even count! other than that, all their t1 ships are as usefull as the noob ships! -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:53:00 - [146] Originally by: Jet Collins Originally by: Bentguru Originally by: Jet Collins Have you ever noticed Rail only do 2 damage types as well but you don't see them whining. Plus if you really want the other damage types you have some ships that have drones or missiles. Woot!! there is your other damage type... The problem isn't the amount of damage types, it's the types themselves. EM has a natural 60% resist acroess ALL ships. It's like an active hardener that is always on. It royally screws over amarr frig vs frig combat and makes it absurdly easy to tank most amarr ships. All you need is an EAN and your up around 70ish resist to half the amarr damage. Ture and this maybe the disrepency with Ammar in PvP because most ships in PVP armor tank do to using its mids for EW. However I do not think it grants a change. The main reason (to my belive)that Ammar has these damage types is that they never have to reload thier weapons and they do significant damage compaired to other "guns". And come on they are Lasers after all :) you really expect a laser to do Kin or Explosive damage . But has I said and will stand by this and this will be my last post in this thread. CCP is always "trying" to balance. Every race has this time. At this time it jsut so happens its not Amarrs time. I have a felling once Kali comes it may change again though so just be patient. Nope, don't really expect it to, and I'm not advocating it either. Tbh my only though is maybe a possible nerf, down to 50% or so, to natural EM resistance in armor. Or maybe a greater nerf to the stat and a boost to sheild resists. To be honest the deal is like this: Minmatar don't have this problem because they can do all damage types by the nature of proj ammo (as a hypothetical the whining that would result from minnies only doing explo and kin for instance would be hilarious), Gal have a good deal of drone ships so it's not an issue for them, caldari have missles 'nuff said. Apart from the few amarr drone ships, we're locked into 2 damage types. To make it slightly worse, lasers are made with large optimals based on the idea that they're a mid-range weapon (obviously there are exceptions), but you can only dictate range out to 20km usually in solo fights seeing as thats the farthest you can scramble somebody without very expensive mods. Thats usefull with anything that doesn't have tons of NOS on their ship, and seeing as lasers take up large amounts of grid it's hard for amarr ships to counter-nos effectively without gimping their setup. It's alot of little things that make it hard to solo. Amarr ships are still very nice in gangs though. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.23 19:55:00 - [147] Originally by: Imperial Coercion so far we have you started by throwing subtile insults 'can you read' and me replying. Then when you get some of your own medicine you start crying and accusing me of flaming. Dont even bother replying, since my opinion of you have already been stated. You need a cat scan. I never directed a post at you or quote one of your's until you did and flamed me. Seriously, get checked. -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
O'Sirius	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:01:00 - [148] I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. Its just like in other mmorgs. Some classes are better solo, some are better in groups. For example in EQ Necromancers could solo, warriors could not. But those Nercomancers weren't really all that useful in group, while warriors were because you needed a tank. Its impossible to make everyone equal, because if you do, there's absolutly no variation between the classes or in our case, ships. Now Amarr have their own solo ships(Curse/Pilgrim for example). So its not like we're locked in the gang only role.
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:02:00 - [149] Edited by: Aramendel on 23/06/2006 20:03:00 Originally by: Jet Collins Ture and this maybe the disrepency with Ammar in PvP because most ships in PVP armor tank do to using its mids for EW. However I do not think it grants a change. The main reason (to my belive)that Ammar has these damage types is that they never have to reload thier weapons and they do significant damage compaired to other "guns". Actually lasers do pretty similar dps compared to other guns withthe shipboni included. Compare a 250 rail with +25% damage with a heavy beam with -50% cap and you'll see that the dps and cap/sec of the rail is actually slightly better. Add ocassional reloading to it (although you do not necessarily need to use it every combat) and the effeciency of both weapons in pretty much identical. Quote: And come on they are Lasers after all :) you really expect a laser to do Kin or Explosive damage . Don't force me to go into physics, otherwise Godar Marak will flame me again. Let me just say this: I'll give you 100 mil if you can prove to me how lasers could do anything which couldcount as "EM damage". Or what allows beams to work with full effeciency the first 50 km and then suddenly stops them alltogether. Lasers are right now very unrealistic compared to RL. Originally by: O'Sirius I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. Believe it or not, you can fly a mega with the same skill you need for the Domi.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:03:00 - [150] Originally by: O'Sirius I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. I beive the whole point is that most races has ships for all roles. amarr doesnt even have a proper solo battleship let alone cruisers.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:05:00 - [151] Originally by: O'Sirius I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. Its just like in other mmorgs. Some classes are better solo, some are better in groups. For example in EQ Necromancers could solo, warriors could not. But those Nercomancers weren't really all that useful in group, while warriors were because you needed a tank. Its impossible to make everyone equal, because if you do, there's absolutly no variation between the classes or in our case, ships. Now Amarr have their own solo ships(Curse/Pilgrim for example). So its not like we're locked in the gang only role. The only reason you see apocs in fleets is becase the people who use them have no choice, if u have spent 20mil sp in amarr skills u cant just use a megathron or a tempest ur stuck with those skills. the gedden is a better sniper in most cases and its true, some races are better solo, some better in fleets, some better in this and that but there is no reason to use amarr t1 ships [bar the apoc]. the reason is that a t1 gun kitted thorax or rupture is better than a t2 gun kitted maller or omen -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Asuzke Mitsugi	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:07:00 - [152] Edited by: Asuzke Mitsugi on 23/06/2006 20:08:46 Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi \0/ Page Six! OP : you are so wrong you don't even know it. Amarr is alive and well. Insted of posting bull like that, tell us what *** amarr ship pawns and give us a setup u moron You should practice that speach on yourself before you post... you might get a clue.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:08:00 - [153] Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi You should practice that speach on yourself before you post... you might get a clue. Not really. and thats the worst comeback I have EVER read. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
O'Sirius	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:08:00 - [154] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: O'Sirius I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. I beive the whole point is that most races has ships for all roles. amarr doesnt even have a proper solo battleship let alone cruisers. Arbitrator is fine for soloing. As for BS, we'll see once tier III battleships are out. Anyway, BS isn't really a good ship to fly solo. At least in 0.0, you're just too slow and too vulnerable to gank squads.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:10:00 - [155] Originally by: O'Sirius Arbitrator is fine for soloing. As for BS, we'll see once tier III battleships are out. Anyway, BS isn't really a good ship to fly solo. At least in 0.0, you're just too slow and too vulnerable to gank squads. I agree with Godar. But I also agree with you on the tier 3 bs. But then again I doubt a tier 3 will changed the problems Amarr pilots have today. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Asuzke Mitsugi	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:11:00 - [156] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi You should practice that speach on yourself before you post... you might get a clue. Not really. and thats the worst comeback I have EVER read. As if I care? I'll keep flying amarr tech, so will my other amarr account.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:14:00 - [157] Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi Edited by: Asuzke Mitsugi on 23/06/2006 20:08:46 Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi \0/ Page Six! OP : you are so wrong you don't even know it. Amarr is alive and well. Insted of posting bull like that, tell us what *** amarr ship pawns and give us a setup u moron You should practice that speach on yourself before you post... you might get a clue. again i see u posting, yet no setups to show us your uber pawning amarr ships! gimme a good non gedden or arbitrator setup and ill stop asking for the devs to look into amarr ships/weapons now if ur imbarrised that you ened to fit small neutron blasters to your apoc to use it then what can i say, lol -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Bubba1977	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:15:00 - [158] Only thing amarr needs is a little variety in damage types. Give us some more crystals, with more thermal than em damage, and another T2 with explosive. Everything else is fine. __________________________________________________ 2006.01.24 06:13:19 Your Tachyon Beam Laser II perfectly strikes Amarr Control Tower [TSBS]<TSDS>, wrecking for 1528.7 damage.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:15:00 - [159] Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi As if I care? I'll keep flying amarr tech, so will my other amarr account. Why dont you concentrate of your signature. Your avatar is blatantly cut and paste.
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:15:00 - [160] @Asuzke Mitsugi: Any trained monkey can write "this is so", the trick is the trick is to acually support a claim with arguments. If you do not have any you are only wasting your time and that of others. @Imperial Coercion: I am sure starting a flamewar with everyone who disagrees will help a lot to win support and will help the thread to stay focussed.
Asuzke Mitsugi	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:15:00 - [161] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: O'Sirius I agree with the BoB guy, sure some races are better then soloing, but some races are better at ganging up. For example, ever seen many Dominixes in a fleet? Quite a number of Apocs in fleets however. Its just like in other mmorgs. Some classes are better solo, some are better in groups. For example in EQ Necromancers could solo, warriors could not. But those Nercomancers weren't really all that useful in group, while warriors were because you needed a tank. Its impossible to make everyone equal, because if you do, there's absolutly no variation between the classes or in our case, ships. Now Amarr have their own solo ships(Curse/Pilgrim for example). So its not like we're locked in the gang only role. The only reason you see apocs in fleets is becase the people who use them have no choice, if u have spent 20mil sp in amarr skills u cant just use a megathron or a tempest ur stuck with those skills. the gedden is a better sniper in most cases and its true, some races are better solo, some better in fleets, some better in this and that but there is no reason to use amarr t1 ships [bar the apoc]. the reason is that a t1 gun kitted thorax or rupture is better than a t2 gun kitted maller or omen So what you are saying is that amarr as a whole is totally wasted XP and, despite the megathrons problems with blasters for the past 2 years and the typhoons continuing struggle to be useful with its bonues or the scorpions one trick pony existance, the amarrian ships which make you hand over fist in PvE, damn good fleet ships as well as some of the best small gang ships in the game are rubbish? You must smoke stupid cigars.
William Alex	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:18:00 - [162] Oh man, a crystal that did more thermal than em... I'm sure a lot of amarr would love to get their hands on that. Originally by: G.W. Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:20:00 - [163] Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi So what you are saying is that amarr as a whole is totally wasted XP and, despite the megathrons problems with blasters for the past 2 years and the typhoons continuing struggle to be useful with its bonues or the scorpions one trick pony existance, the amarrian ships which make you hand over fist in PvE, damn good fleet ships as well as some of the best small gang ships in the game are rubbish? You must smoke stupid cigars. im galante spec u moron and the blaster problems was NOTHING in comparision to the amarr ship/weapon problems, the typhoon is one ship, and id say the amarr only have one good t1 ship! the AC boost/fix again is nothing in comparision to the current situation of amarr ships/weapons combination! good npc ships u say? who gives a ** about agent *s? good fleet ships you say, wait how many good fleet ships, TWO, the apoc and the gedden, waht other amarr ship do u say omg im glad we got one of these in our fleet! and im sure u never fly amar, u dont even know about amarr. give me a good maller setup *, or stay the moron of the week in my eyes -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent ***s
Bubba1977	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:27:00 - [164] Originally by: William Alex Oh man, a crystal that did more thermal than em... I'm sure a lot of amarr would love to get their hands on that. Well gleams do that now, but they're rather expensive and nerfs your tracking. We need a T1 version of gleams (and no, multifrequencies are not it...they do more em). __________________________________________________ 2006.01.24 06:13:19 Your Tachyon Beam Laser II perfectly strikes Amarr Control Tower [TSBS]<TSDS>, wrecking for 1528.7 damage.
O'Sirius	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:28:00 - [165] Originally by: Gronsak give me a good maller setup *****, or stay the moron of the week in my eyes Yeah, I'm sure you'll be asking for good Auguror setups next. Some ships suck. Deal with it.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:38:00 - [166] You know, I don't see how hybrids don't get shafted as much if not more than lasers in dmg types, I mean, when you look at T2 ships, caldari, amarr, and especially gallente ALL 3 get elevated kinetic resist.. usually somewhere between 64-88% base. Only race that doesn't, is Minmatar. I don't think i've seen any buhu from Minmatar and EMP or any buhu from Gallente or even people flying Caldari ships that focus on hybrids (harpy, eagle, ect), so why whine about EM? Honestly in PvP i don't think resists mean that much, and when I say that I mean in general, most ships have pretty balanced resistances only a few % points apart, other than T2 ships. ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
Fuujin	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:39:00 - [167] Edited by: Fuujin on 23/06/2006 20:41:31 It's posters like the OP and gronsak that discredit my firm belief that the majority of people in EVE are more mature on the whole. You guys really should have just flammed him and let him and people like gronsak get back on the short bus and go back to WoW. The incompitent community there will welcome them with open arms. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:44:00 - [168] Originally by: Fuujin Edited by: Fuujin on 23/06/2006 20:41:31 It's posters like the OP and gronsak that discredit my firm belief that the majority of people in EVE are more mature on the whole. You guys really should have just flammed him and let him and people like gronsak get back on the short bus and go back to WoW. The incompitent community there will welcome them with open arms. I remember a warrior in WoW named Fuujin by the way. Spanked him every time with my mage. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:45:00 - [169] Originally by: Gronsak and can people who have never flown an amarr ship fitted with t2, or who have never sat down and looked at it on paper not post, which is basicly nearly all of you! if this is what you want - why you keep ignoring weirda? fly them - check posted setups (on another thread) - yes check - ~400dps, non-maxed skill OMEN that weirda fly on TQ right now which uses medium guns, and has a much better tank then a thorax doing that kind of dmg - ~230dps Maller Setup, using medium guns which will again tank a HELL of a lot better then other t1 ships doing the same damage. having said that, have killed armor tanking minmatar HAC (the crux of the WHOLE FRIGGING THREAD is the em resist, and these are the biggest offenders IN GAME) with t1 heavy beams (before even had the medium spec). this was AFTER RMR (tanking/stacking/etc changes). nobody listens when people who do fly them (daily) and do fine with them (daily) post - only insults are slung, and you wonder why (re-read you own post and see how offensive it is to someone like Weirda who is trying to bring any sort of sense to thread). stated before, the 1600mm plate setup is a freeking duramaller pve setup, no freeking wonder it blow at PvP. no disagreeing with you there, stop using that PVE setup to prove how crappy a ship is when it is not even a PVP setup. yeah a mission whoring 350mm rail mega blows at PVP too (solo) - so the whole line is ******? that seem to be you argument again and again and again... this is getting tiresome. looking for someone to actually read what weirda have written instead of just bickering like children and flinging insult that no one who fly amarr is posting etc etc etc... congrats for you Gronsak. you are uber... maybe you and Ginger Magician can go form a corp together (if he is not your minmatar alt...) __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Wodin Drukvik	Posted - 2006.06.23 20:55:00 - [170] Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi So what you are saying is that amarr as a whole is totally wasted XP and, despite the megathrons problems with blasters for the past 2 years and the typhoons continuing struggle to be useful with its bonues or the scorpions one trick pony existance, the amarrian ships which make you hand over fist in PvE, damn good fleet ships as well as some of the best small gang ships in the game are rubbish? You must smoke stupid cigars. Ugh. I wanted to stay out of this thread because of the antagonistic tone and the rather beligerent nature of both sides, but I felt that I needed to comment on this point. The difference between the situations you outlined above, and the situation Amarr pilots now find themselves in, is the scope of the problem. Even when it was basically impossible to fit the Megathron as a blasterboat, blasters were still a viable pvp choice on a Thorax or Taranis. Likewise, the Typhoon is an example of a single ship: yes, it's schitzoid, but the general "flavor" of a fast ship that fit autocannons and ran rings around the opponent was preserved by other Minmatar pvp choices. The Scorpion is a one-trick pony, yes, but that trick is vitally important and I'd be hard-pressed to find another ship better at it. The Amarr problem is systemic: a generic ship that attempts to fill the "racial role" by equipping appropriately tiered lasers (frigate guns on frigates, cruiser guns on cruisers) and a strong armor tank will be much less effective than the equivalently fitted and geared ship of the same tier but different race. This problem can be bypassed by focusing on an ultraspecific role where Amarr performance can perform equivalently to other races(sniping with Tachs), or bypassing the primary racial mechanic by focusing on drone boats such as the Arbitrator and Curse that can be fitted more effectively for pvp. Many intelligent Amarr players approach and solve the problem in this way, but it has a chilling effect on the relatively new Amarr player. They need to train laser skills to be successful in day-to-day, but this training has no effect on their actual success or failure in pvp until they hit extremely specialized goals(T2 Tachs) or focus on non-standard skills like drones whose utility varies greatly depending on ship. Imagine the poor newbie who wants to pvp in an Arbitrator, but run missions in a Maller. That problem is a microcosm for the dilemma facing Amarr as a whole. As has been mentioned in other threads, there really isn't an effective solution to this problem. Giving Amarr varied damagetypes through thermal or explosive primary crystals violates flavor and poses balance issues. Going back to basics and revamping every Amarr ship in the post-RMR environment is a mountain of work given the delicate balance that must be struck. Across-the-board changes to the mechanics of lasers are equally fraught with peril. The best Amarr pilots can do is present the problems in a reasonable fashion, and hope that the developers are listening. Saurmauls graph earlier in the thread was actually a good illustration of the problem, in an odd way. From a purely numeric sense - equivalent numbers of weapons and damagemods - it's completely correct. But in reality, the effective difference between the seeming equality of that graph and what happens out in space is huge. Fleet engagements happen in the 200-250 range, where the Amarr damage output drops precipitously, and the Amarr snipers ships are relative. Claiming that it's only at "extreme" ranges where Amarr are outdamaged neglects the reality of the situation - that a vast majority of those encounters do occur in that window, and this has the expected balance consequences.
sgt spike	Posted - 2006.06.23 21:20:00 - [171] Originally by: korrey This thread is for the Devs only. If none answer the oh well, I guess back to Battlefield 2 or World of Warcraft. This thread is also not another Amarr complaint thread. If thats what it turns into then Ill delete it. Devs, Tux, I dont care who. Dont you even see anything going on in these forums? Or too busy making Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente better? What the **** is wrong with you? Theres only 4 races in the game. 1 of them is insanely good. 2 of them are fairly good and even better with higher skills. 1 of them also sucks so morbidly its rediculous. Do you not see this? I would like a response from the devs. Just 1 if thats all you can give. But answer these. Why do you respond when something insignificant needs fixing but when 1 WHOLE race is screwed you dissapear? And why hasnt someone even once, just 'Confirmed' that Amarr are terrible? Do you even fly amarr? Have you even looked at them in the last month? I can see, whether it bee Customer support or just game developement...Eve is not the game for me. Its fun but things that need fixing most just arent getting done. 1 word FOOL can you put a price on peace? Join Sicarri
Montero	Posted - 2006.06.23 21:23:00 - [172] why isn't this thread locked yet?
steveid	Posted - 2006.06.23 21:25:00 - [173] I still think the prophecy is a good ship gronsak. Its better than the cyclone, at least as good as the fox and can give the brutix a run for its money. As for the cruisers, IMO its only gallante that has better cruisers. When your very skilled all of these ships can be really good. A maller can tank really well for a cruiser, better than most ships. I understand the concerns, but i'm still of the opinion i'd rather be amarr than mini.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.23 21:25:00 - [174] Originally by: Montero why isn't this thread locked yet? grosnak is a dev... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 21:25:00 - [175] Oh gee that helps...thanks for teh constructive post, I think Amarr is fixed now. My word, I come back from work and ive got people killing each other. (And another 3 pages added). So lets leave it at this. 'I' think Amarr sucks. Apparently so do 500 OTHER amarr players. So instead of getting 'Amarr doesnt suck joor just a dumii11 heads' posts from people who cant even fly t2 frigates, I would like to know 'WHY' Amarr DOESNT suck. As you can clearly read theres 7 pages on why they DO. Anyone like to give a ship from amarr besides the Armageddon and 2 Recon ships that are good at pvp? And not in a flaming way. We'll get your post on why you think amarr doesnt suck and we'll tell you why we think it does. Ok? Im tired of all this fighting were just trying to prove a point that is a rather large problem in the game right now.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.23 21:35:00 - [176] Originally by: Weirda posted setups (on another thread) - yes check - ~400dps, non-maxed skill OMEN that weirda fly on TQ right now which uses medium guns, and has a much better tank then a thorax doing that kind of dmg - ~230dps Maller Setup, using medium guns which will again tank a HELL of a lot better then other t1 ships doing the same damage. having said that, have killed armor tanking minmatar HAC (the crux of the WHOLE FRIGGING THREAD is the em resist, and these are the biggest offenders IN GAME) with t1 heavy beams (before even had the medium spec). this was AFTER RMR (tanking/stacking/etc changes). nobody listens when people who do fly them (daily) and do fine with them (daily) post - only insults are slung, and you wonder why (re-read you own post and see how offensive it is to someone like Weirda who is trying to bring any sort of sense to thread). How much faction loot on that omen? Must be some kind of joke. With 4x t2 heavy pulses (which is required for this dmg) you wont have a tank AT ALL. Don't spit out lies weirda, send me the setup ingame if you want, else I am not going to buy this. Maller needs 3 heat sinks + RCU to fit heavy pulses t2 and get 300 dps, crap tank tho. With 5x focused t2 medium pulses you shouldn't be able to get 230dps without heat sinks. Either you have AWESOME skills or your just lieing. Just because it is possible that an ibis can kill a Titan it does not mean it's an nber ship. Of course you can kill everything with everything (except shutte ^^) but what does this prove? Nothing? Mail me the setups or post them here, or do you still practise the lost art of keepin a secret?
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 21:39:00 - [177] Do this Wierda. Give me a Maller setup T1 only. No named just T1. Then ill fit a thorax, have a friend fit a Maller exactly to your specifications and see who wins.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 21:43:00 - [178] And I reply to trolls more often than setups because there are plenty of people here who think amarr is horribe just as much as I do that can take care of the argument for me while I take care of nub trollers. Im tired of this 'Moron' or 'Fool' one word posts. All they prove is either A: you have no oratory skills and have no prove to back it or B: your just bored. Either way it proves your life is meaningless.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:00:00 - [179] Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Weirda posted setups (on another thread) - yes check - ~400dps, non-maxed skill OMEN that weirda fly on TQ right now which uses medium guns, and has a much better tank then a thorax doing that kind of dmg - ~230dps Maller Setup, using medium guns which will again tank a HELL of a lot better then other t1 ships doing the same damage. having said that, have killed armor tanking minmatar HAC (the crux of the WHOLE FRIGGING THREAD is the em resist, and these are the biggest offenders IN GAME) with t1 heavy beams (before even had the medium spec). this was AFTER RMR (tanking/stacking/etc changes). nobody listens when people who do fly them (daily) and do fine with them (daily) post - only insults are slung, and you wonder why (re-read you own post and see how offensive it is to someone like Weirda who is trying to bring any sort of sense to thread). How much faction loot on that omen? Must be some kind of joke. With 4x t2 heavy pulses (which is required for this dmg) you wont have a tank AT ALL. Don't spit out lies weirda, send me the setup ingame if you want, else I am not going to buy this. Maller needs 3 heat sinks + RCU to fit heavy pulses t2 and get 300 dps, crap tank tho. With 5x focused t2 medium pulses you shouldn't be able to get 230dps without heat sinks. Either you have AWESOME skills or your just lieing. will send you both setup - in game. they are posted elsewhere in another amarr thread on this forum, but better to be safe then sorry. no faction ** at all, weirda is a cheap minmatar. will send to korrey too. got to get home from work though... Quote:** or do you still practise the lost art of keepin a secret? again, nothing magical about them (just what the ship are designed to do), but 'lost art of keeping a secret' is a Queens of the Stone Age song after all. __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:04:00 - [180] Alright ill get my friend and we'll await your amazing setup. Then test it against a real ship, as im sure you use it to fight of rats fairly well.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:11:00 - [181] Originally by: korrey Alright ill get my friend and we'll await your amazing setup. Then test it against a real ship, as im sure you use it to fight of rats fairly well. weirda is a pvp pilot. period. ask around, just because Weirda doesn't call anyone who doesn't pvp 23/7 a muppet doesn't mean you should go talking like that. geesh, wish some curse pilot (enemies) would jump in here and at least speak to that... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Yodohime Kibagami	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:14:00 - [182] Amarr vs gallente DPS comparisons are so delightful. Amarr is obviously overpowered against cans, demand nerfbat.
Red Six	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:30:00 - [183] Tassi - Just went through the big thread looking for Rodj Blake's comments and didn't see any from him however I did see alot from Forsch and several other Amarr roleplayers. I think Forsch is on to something and I'll get to that in a sec. I also took a look at a lot of the numbers posted. Next I came back here to look at things again and this thread was summed up by one poster stating that the rest of the races have solo pwnmobiles, Domi, Raven and Tempest(I guess it is personally it's my fleet ship) and the Amarran's want one too. With that I think I better understand some of the points being posted, I had been avoiding the big thread because, well, that was a lot to wade through. Some things I agree should happen such as reducing the fitting requirements for Medium, Heavy and Tachyon Beams. That has always been a problem. It was a problem for Blasters for, well, ever so start the campaign for fitting of those. It also appears that the Heavy Pulse could use a slight fitting improvement too although I think the Omen would do better fitting Focused Medium Pulse just like a Stabber fits 220 AC not 425 AC. The biggest issue though is short range small group fights where typically tanking does make a difference. With the new armor tanking skills it is very easy to get high EM resists. Forsch has stated to solve all the Amarr damage issues simply reversing the percentages for thermal and EM. I'm not sure that's 100% requrired however on short range crystals, those that have a -x.x% range bonus, I think that reversing EM/Thermal might make the Megapulse Geddon/Apoc better. That still gives you good shield damage and good armor damage, Eve math isn't my strong suit as I don't know all the formulaes so I'll let someone who does know them all tell me if that's a dumb suggestion or not. Long range is fine as is I think. Also someone said that a 2.5% increase in cap usage reduction bonus would significantly help laser users. That would have to be tested on Sisi but that couldn't hurt either. The issue is you can't reduce cap usage on the lasers directly or you'll wind up with everyone and I mean everyone fitting Tachyons again. At one point in the game everyone fit Tachyons to their battleships, even Tempests. So to maintain the individuality the Amarr cap usage bonus came into being and I think if any changes to laser cap usage are done it needs to be through that bonus. The Apoc should be the king of the tanks but I'm not sure how to fix that except to maybe make the Capacitor capacity bonus 10% instead of 5%. That should hopefully give the Apoc a monster sized capacitor and reduce reliance on Cap Booster 800s giving you another mid slot for use. I've let my experiences in flying in large fleets color my percptions some, which is why I've changed my position on some items. I hadn't thought about it from a small fleet fight as I typically am in a cruiser or battlecruiser for those. That being said I still don't think any battleship should be a solo pwnmobile. Frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers (T1/T2) should be your solo artists. That's just my opinion.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:41:00 - [184] The main problem with the Apoc is this. It can tank really well. Then again after all these patches, so can any other ship. So my thing is the Apoc should have a resistance bonus like the Maller. Something that would be more useful than cap which can be sucked dry. Then once you get the resistance up high the apoc will be far more used I think. The cap bonus as it stands is this. Cap can be sucked faster than a Mercedes. Almost every ship has a bonus that cant be deterred (I.E. you can necesarilly take away the damage of a ship forever, and you cant make the ROF of a geddons turret slow down.) But cap? You can throw it with the wind and then your bonus is meaningless. Resistance on the other hand cant be taken away. Oh and the other problem with the apoc is yeah sure it can tank. But not long enough for its crappy damage to kill its opponent. Especially not if its nos's.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:42:00 - [185] When Gronsak takes up your cause you've got no chance. I'm glad I keep him as an enemy on the forums ;P I haven't yet seen one well thought-out argument based on truth, one comparison graph, one rational responce (besides a select few such as Weirda) or anything else that would warrent a dev looking at this topic, let along replying to it. As has been stated before, Amarr were top of the game for years. Yes, years. This was mainly down to the old stacking system where Amarrian ships could load up with 7 heat sinks, the best guns and kill the target before it had a chance to align for warp. Combined with having one of the highest DPSes in game made for some very unbalanced ships. The primary reason the stacking penalty changes were brought in were to counter this kind of gank combat and the change has been for the better. Amarr ships can't do extreme gank anymore. Well, I hate to break it to you but neither can any other race of ships. The 1400mm artillery tempest was feared with it's 6 damage mods. Then the new stacking penalty came in (along with the hitpoint increase) and it wasn't as good. The alpha strike was lowered, and it's ROF is now even worse than it was before. Compare that with Tachyons where they have the second highest alpha strike (90% of an arti tempest) and far far higher DPS. "But Sarrrrr, the Apoc and Geddon will be facing 60% EM resistances". Guess what, Minmatar have the fastest lock time and will generally be shooting a ship when it's on shields. Oh look, 60% explosive resistances. The next argument I hear is "but people fit plates in fleet combat, so more time will be spend shooting at a 60% EM Resistance. Well, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. With base armour resistances factored in, the Armageddon, Tempest and Megathron do virtually identical DPS. Yes that's right, virtually idendical. The Apoc is a little behind, but it's a tanking/cap machine not a gank ship. Mega: 356 DPS with 3xMF II Geddon: 354 DPS with 3xHS II Tempest: 344 DPS with 3xGyro II It's the main reason why I've stopped bothing to try and get 1400mms boosted (well another 10 dps would be nice) - theyre perfectly balanced with the other guns in fleet. Their insane volley damage is countered by their poor ROF, much like Tachyon's insane damage output is countered by a 60% EM armour resistance. Another issue I keep seeing as "we don't have enough midslots unlike the other 3 races". Well, you have virtually the same amount of midslots as Gallente and more low slots for fitting tank/cap/wcs/damage mods. Every midslot you use for something other than shield modules hurts a Caldari tank, and the Minmatar ships with midslots generally have pathetic tanks due to lacking lows. The exception are the dedicated shield tankers, but then it falls into the same trap as Caldari. The problem is that electronic warfare is overpowered, not that Amarr suck due to their lack of midslots. The only reason you want those midslots is so you can jam someone before they jam you which indicates that the system is fubar and needs redoing, not that Amarr need a gazillion more midslots. Next the "my guns use cap". Yes, your guns use cap. You also have huge capacitors, and your guns don't use as much cap as blasters. Blaster ships have awful cap to begin with. Combine with a MWD being manditory (goodbye 25% cap) and the cap usage on blasters and Amarr gets it pretty good. For the first time in EVE's history Amarr players are having trouble killing other ships without much effort. Welcome to the real world guys, it's how everyone else has been playing since... well, forever. I will agree that certain ships could do with a slight boost (anything Khanid + Zealot), but besides that all that's happening is you're getting the short stick when it comes to overpowered game mechanics which need to be fixed as everyone is having trouble with them. Finally, not everyone runs EANM tanks. A select few battleships do, everyone else still uses hardeners. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:43:00 - [186] And no you don't need higher thermal damage crystals or explosive/kinetic ones either - use your drone bay and missile points ffs. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:51:00 - [187] Originally by: Sarmaul And no you don't need higher thermal damage crystals or explosive/kinetic ones either - use your drone bay and missile points ffs. Yeah, my armageddon and apoc will pwn if I use those. Oh wait, only apoc has missile slot but it wont matter for the outcome when 1vs1. Id really wish you would get some 1st hand experience Sauroman. It would be so much easier to take you seriously Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:53:00 - [188] Originally by: Sarmaul And no you don't need higher thermal damage crystals or explosive/kinetic ones either - use your drone bay and missile points ffs. So what your saying is on top of the 4 mil sp ive spent on lasers I now need to get 'Drones' to do any damage at all? I dont remember Caldari having to train for 2 weapon systems to win a fight. Lousy excuse. Period. And Amarr has very few drone ships and the ones that have hold big enough are already gun platforms. So now we need to train for Drones on our Omens to be 'effective'?
Fuujin	Posted - 2006.06.23 22:57:00 - [189] Originally by: Sarmaul When Gronsak takes up your cause you've got no chance. QFT _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:01:00 - [190] Edited by: Sarmaul on 23/06/2006 23:02:04 If your ship had a drone bay, use them for versatility. Are you honestly complaining about having to train more than just lasers and armour tank when: Caldari: Missiles, Hybrids, Shield Tank, Drones Gallente: Missiles (yes some Gallente ships are missile based), Blasters, Hybrids, Armour Tank, Drones Minmatar: Missiles, Projectiles, Drones, Shield Tank, Armour Tank You seem to use the excuse that "amarr don't have many dedicated drone ships so why should we train drones". Minmatar have what, 2 dedicated missile ships yet we still need them. We don't have a single dedicated drone ship yet we still need them. The drone bay is the easiest option to vary your damage types. If you don't wish to take advantage of that fact then more fool you. Imperial Coercion, I'm surprised you haven't been banned for all the trolling and personal insults your doing in the Amarr threads. The moment someone disagrees with your point of view instead of telling them why and point out their errors you tell people to "go get some 1v1 experience". You have no idea about my combat experience, much like you know ** all about anyone else in this thread. Quote:** So what your saying is on top of the 4 mil sp ive spent on lasers I now need to get 'Drones' to do any damage at all? I dont remember Caldari having to train for 2 weapon systems to win a fight. Lousy excuse. Period. And Amarr has very few drone ships and the ones that have hold big enough are already gun platforms. So now we need to train for Drones on our Omens to be 'effective'? Welcome to how everyone else has to play the game. We all have to train drones. 4 million skillpoints in gunnery is nothing. More and more of us are being forced to train missiles. I can understand bypassing the missile skills as you have so few launcher points (and nos is generally more effective - same reason why I use them on my minny ships instead of launchers) but if you're honestly refusing to train drones then you deserve to get blown up. The Amarrian players seem to be sitting in this hazy bubble where they think all you should need are good laser skills to compete. Wrong, wrong wrong. Get a reality check, learn how the other races play and then come back with a better understanding of the game. Edit: As for caldari missile ships not needing drones, seeing as torps and crusier do F/A damage to frigates and limited damage to cruisers, they damn well better be training drones. Adapt, train or die. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:03:00 - [191] Edited by: Grimpak on 23/06/2006 23:04:34 forums are realy **** up these days ------- Originally by:** Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:04:00 - [192] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Sarmaul And no you don't need higher thermal damage crystals or explosive/kinetic ones either - use your drone bay and missile points ffs. Yeah, my armageddon and apoc will pwn if I use those. Oh wait, only apoc has missile slot but it wont matter for the outcome when 1vs1. Id really wish you would get some 1st hand experience Sauroman. It would be so much easier to take you seriously Sarmaul just gave you numbers and cold hard facts. Counter his statement with the same weapons and people will start to see you more seriously. Untill then you look more and more like a refined whiner with replies like that. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:10:00 - [193] Originally by: Sarmaul Are you honestly complaining about having to train more than just lasers and armour tank I fly Amarr, Caldari and Minmatar. Thanks. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:11:00 - [194] Originally by: Grimpak e] Sarmaul just gave you numbers and cold hard facts. Counter his statement with the same weapons and people will start to see you more seriously. Untill then you look more and more like a refined whiner with replies like that. lol x100 Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:14:00 - [195] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Grimpak e] Sarmaul just gave you numbers and cold hard facts. Counter his statement with the same weapons and people will start to see you more seriously. Untill then you look more and more like a refined whiner with replies like that. lol x100 I meant "put up or shut up" in case you didn't understand. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Andreask14	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:17:00 - [196] Edited by: Andreask14 on 23/06/2006 23:22:24 You ppl must be kidding me, saying that its justified that the laser-ships of the amarr are sucking quite bad right now, and that i should adapt by training more. Isnt it ok, that i want to fly competitive t1 ships with lasers? No? K. On the other hand, it was stated that the ships do equal damage, thanks to equal DPS on one side of the equation and a dozen meaningless factors that cancel eachother out, on the other side, effectively negating racial differences. So why do the amarr need to fit additional RCUs then, and get to eat their own tank up, if they do equal DPS now ? IN CONCLUSION What you have said is, that specialisation kills you. Didnt know that, but now that you mentioned it, it seems obvious, and its a nasty side-effect of balance. Instead of actually creating niches, it came to be that you have to be a jack of all trades to be competitive. Very strange indeed, and partly a reason for the whines, scince I know that I really miss the outrageous damage of the amarr. ________________________________________________ Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are.
korrey	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:30:00 - [197] Edited by: korrey on 23/06/2006 23:31:13 An Omen with 2 heavy pulse lasers and 2 Focused Medium pulse lasers and 2 heat sinks does less than 139dps (Yes to fit ANYTHING at all youve got to mix heavies with meds) . Some great 'Raw DPS' ships amarr have. Instead a moa with also a formidable tank does more. And its not even supposed to be a damage dealing ship. A maller with 4x Fouced medium pulse lasers does jack dps. And its tank can be overrun by any well setup ship. A thorax with an 800mm plate and blasters? It can outtank a Maller THEN kill it with raw damage. Amazing how our Tier 2 Cruiser gets raped by any other races Tier 2 cruiser.
Alzion	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:36:00 - [198] Originally by: Weirda Originally by: korrey Alright ill get my friend and we'll await your amazing setup. Then test it against a real ship, as im sure you use it to fight of rats fairly well. weirda is a pvp pilot. period. ask around, just because Weirda doesn't call anyone who doesn't pvp 23/7 a muppet doesn't mean you should go talking like that. geesh, wish some curse pilot (enemies) would jump in here and at least speak to that... As a fellow PvP pilot and a Amarr/Gallente specialist I have to say that your claim is utterly ubserd. I'll get on test server later and test out a pure gank omen setup, but I don't think i'll get 400 dps or be able to do anything besides fire my guns. --------------------------------------------- I hear Linux can cure cancer and raise your sperm count. - Dionysus Davinci
CardboardSword42	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:53:00 - [199] Edited by: CardboardSword42 on 23/06/2006 23:53:18 Originally by: korrey Edited by: korrey on 23/06/2006 23:31:13 An Omen with 2 heavy pulse lasers and 2 Focused Medium pulse lasers and 2 heat sinks does less than 139dps (Yes to fit ANYTHING at all youve got to mix heavies with meds) . Some great 'Raw DPS' ships amarr have. Instead a moa with also a formidable tank does more. And its not even supposed to be a damage dealing ship. A maller with 4x Fouced medium pulse lasers does jack dps. And its tank can be overrun by any well setup ship. A thorax with an 800mm plate and blasters? It can outtank a Maller THEN kill it with raw damage. Amazing how our Tier 2 Cruiser gets raped by any other races Tier 2 cruiser. 1) 1 Heavy Pulse with 2 heat sinks on an Omen and Congflag does 92 DPS, and a Medium does 80 DPS. With 2 Heavy Pulses and 2 Medium Pulses that is 344 Damage. Hahahaha at the Moa. The moa has complete and utter **** for DPS. It gets no damage bonus, and hybrids don't have a built in damage bonus like lasers do. Also the Moa doesn't get a formidable tank going with only 4 meds. The moa and the maller are both tier 3 cruiesers. Neither gets a damage bonus. The maller has 5 turret slots to which it does get a bonus, the moa has 4. Laser turrets have a built in damage mod, hybrids don't. The moa only has 4 slots to tank the shields it gets a bonus to. The maller has 6 lows to make use of its bonus to armor resist. A thorax is not going to outtank a maller. Maller has better cap, it has 6 lows to tank with and it gets a bonus to armor resists. I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool But now I'm KOS and it's all about the manlove
O'Sirius	Posted - 2006.06.23 23:55:00 - [200] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Oh wait, only apoc has missile slot but it wont matter for the outcome when 1vs1. Where do you find these 1vs1 battles you keep referring to?
CardboardSword42	Posted - 2006.06.24 00:00:00 - [201] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Sarmaul And no you don't need higher thermal damage crystals or explosive/kinetic ones either - use your drone bay and missile points ffs. So what your saying is on top of the 4 mil sp ive spent on lasers I now need to get 'Drones' to do any damage at all? I dont remember Caldari having to train for 2 weapon systems to win a fight. Lousy excuse. Period. And Amarr has very few drone ships and the ones that have hold big enough are already gun platforms. So now we need to train for Drones on our Omens to be 'effective'? Hybrids are locked to kinetic and thermal damage. Should we allow hybrids to change damage types as well because some guys have trained 4 million skillpoints in Hybrids? Also as a caldari pilot you have to train both missiles and hybrids or you can only use about 1/2 of the caldari line of ships. You have the drone bays already on your ships, use them I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool But now I'm KOS and it's all about the manlove
Kyguard	Posted - 2006.06.24 00:04:00 - [202] Originally by: Sarmaul Adapt, train or die. Should be quite easy for you to say now that minmatar are getting the boosts. It's obvious you don't fly amarr or even if you do, you enjoy minnie more or something. I should have told you that when you were whining about minmatar. === God is on the side with the best arti
CardboardSword42	Posted - 2006.06.24 00:23:00 - [203] What would you guys think of adding a middle class of weapons? There are electron, ion and neutron blasters A thorax can't even fit 5 neutron blaster IIs without a reactor control, but it can go 'gank' and fit a rack of ions and a mwd Autocannons have dual 180s, 220s, and 425s Pulse lasers have Medium Pulses and Heavy Pulses Omen needs a RCU like the Thorax to fit a rack of Heavy Pulses as well as a MWD. This is in line as it is the highest tier of the medium pulses. However it doesn't have the option of ion blasters as there is no laser equivalent. Add a middle class and that should fix things up I think Thoughts? I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool But now I'm KOS and it's all about the manlove
Karazaan	Posted - 2006.06.24 00:28:00 - [204] Originally by: korrey This thread is for the Devs only. If none answer the oh well, I guess back to Battlefield 2 or World of Warcraft. This thread is also not another Amarr complaint thread. If thats what it turns into then Ill delete it. [...] I can see, whether it bee Customer support or just game developement...Eve is not the game for me. Its fun but things that need fixing most just arent getting done. If I were you, I would avoid WoW for a few days unless you want to ban another game from your personnal list. WoW patch adds and breaks features
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.24 00:42:00 - [205] Originally by: O'Sirius Where do you find these 1vs1 battles you keep referring to? Rarer than ever. Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Alzion	Posted - 2006.06.24 01:02:00 - [206] Looks like im getting 297 dps with a full gank setup omen using top level named mods. The Omen was crap when I tested it before and its still crap. A thorax can outdamage a gank Omen setup with electron blasters. There is no contest. --------------------------------------------- I hear Linux can cure cancer and raise your sperm count. - Dionysus Davinci
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.24 01:51:00 - [207] Originally by: Alzion Looks like im getting 297 dps with a full gank setup omen using top level named mods. The Omen was crap when I tested it before and its still crap. A thorax can outdamage a gank Omen setup with electron blasters. There is no contest. now throw t2 + conflagration drones and ml on there and you will have about 400. that is pretty damn impressive for named mods tbh. do you have cruiser V? medium weapon V? weapon spec III? if so, you will get ~400dps with focused medium pulse II and very light tank in low. sheesh. weirda was lucky to pull 100dps with the rupture back in the day... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Alzion	Posted - 2006.06.24 02:36:00 - [208] Sorry Weirda, I was under the impression that you were using T1 since you mentioned that your skills weren't maxed. But, this does bring up another question. If you were quoting a gank setup, why did you say that it would have a better tank than a thorax doing that damage? You can fit a plate and repper while doing over 400 dps with a rax. In the end it dosen't change the fact that omen and maller can't compete with thorax/rupture/vexor/caracal. --------------------------------------------- I hear Linux can cure cancer and raise your sperm count. - Dionysus Davinci
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.24 03:03:00 - [209] Originally by: Alzion Sorry Weirda, I was under the impression that you were using T1 since you mentioned that your skills weren't maxed. But, this does bring up another question. If you were quoting a gank setup, why did you say that it would have a better tank than a thorax doing that damage? You can fit a plate and repper while doing over 400 dps with a rax. In the end it dosen't change the fact that omen and maller can't compete with thorax/rupture/vexor/caracal. no surgical string V and no spec V (or even IV) - when you spec minmatar and amarr you don't have time for that extra 7% dmg unfortunately (especially if you a ship junkee) weirda have melted all those ships (with competent pilot no less) in omen as well... unfortunately certain cough pirate alliances don't post their losses too often... and weirda killboard is private. a 2 slot tank (medium repper) with cap injector eats that thorax. caracal tend to do bad enough dmg to matter and that leave the rupture, which is probably it toughest opponent. dont' fly gallente trash - but under the impression that it not gonna have an easy time fitting much in its lows with a decent gank blaster setup... have read small rep from place to place, and dmg mod/ean2 from here to there. bottom line is that you are going to be doing 200dps to their armor and through it in 10-15 sec which is hardly time for rep cycle. either way - shoot weirda evemail on tq... will fight. if you use ECM/Amarr specific hardener that fine, but just prove the point that you don't think you can beat it without setting up for it. honor is everything you sig rocks btw - funny stuff __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Alzion	Posted - 2006.06.24 03:50:00 - [210] Edited by: Alzion on 24/06/2006 03:54:53 Could you post or mail me the setup your talking about? Im having a tough time figuring out how that will beat a thorax. Quote: you sig rocks btw - funny stuff thanks, linux fanboys go overboard alot --------------------------------------------- I hear Linux can cure cancer and raise your sperm count. - Dionysus Davinci
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.24 04:02:00 - [211] Edited by: Sniser on 24/06/2006 04:02:15 Originally by: Sarmaul Compare that with Tachyons where they have the second highest alpha strike (90% of an arti tempest) and far far higher DPS. "But Sarrrrr, the Apoc and Geddon will be facing 60% EM resistances". Guess what, Minmatar have the fastest lock time and will generally be shooting a ship when it's on shields. Oh look, 60% explosive resistances. The next argument I hear is "but people fit plates in fleet combat, so more time will be spend shooting at a 60% EM Resistance. Well, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. With base armour resistances factored in, the Armageddon, Tempest and Megathron do virtually identical DPS. Yes that's right, virtually idendical. The Apoc is a little behind, but it's a tanking/cap machine not a gank ship. Mega: 356 DPS with 3xMF II Geddon: 354 DPS with 3xHS II Tempest: 344 DPS with 3xGyro II It's the main reason why I've stopped bothing to try and get 1400mms boosted (well another 10 dps would be nice) - theyre perfectly balanced with the other guns in fleet. Their insane volley damage is countered by their poor ROF, much like Tachyon's insane damage output is countered by a 60% EM armour resistance. ok they may have nearly the same damage, now give me the range of megathron or tempest :D also their easy fit for taych ^^
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.24 04:52:00 - [212] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Asuzke Mitsugi So what you are saying is that amarr as a whole is totally wasted XP and, despite the megathrons problems with blasters for the past 2 years and the typhoons continuing struggle to be useful with its bonues or the scorpions one trick pony existance, the amarrian ships which make you hand over fist in PvE, damn good fleet ships as well as some of the best small gang ships in the game are rubbish? You must smoke stupid cigars. im galante spec u moron and the blaster problems was NOTHING in comparision to the amarr ship/weapon problems, the typhoon is one ship, and id say the amarr only have one good t1 ship! the AC boost/fix again is nothing in comparision to the current situation of amarr ships/weapons combination! good npc ships u say? who gives a ** about agent *s? good fleet ships you say, wait how many good fleet ships, TWO, the apoc and the gedden, waht other amarr ship do u say omg im glad we got one of these in our fleet! and im sure u never fly amar, u dont even know about amarr. give me a good maller setup *, or stay the moron of the week in my eyes another ban worthy post by you... this is getting rediculous. Originally by:** "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.24 05:02:00 - [213] Originally by: Weirda Originally by: korrey Alright ill get my friend and we'll await your amazing setup. Then test it against a real ship, as im sure you use it to fight of rats fairly well. weirda is a pvp pilot. period. ask around, just because Weirda doesn't call anyone who doesn't pvp 23/7 a muppet doesn't mean you should go talking like that. geesh, wish some curse pilot (enemies) would jump in here and at least speak to that... QFT if I want advice on how to PvP the buck stops here on any ship. Not personally met a better PvPer in this game in all my days. If anyone wants to insult Weirda they better be willing to back it up on Tranquility against her. And if you want to keep insulting her integrity then you are are insulting Team Minmatar as well and that isn't a wise decision. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Frank Horrigan	Posted - 2006.06.24 05:39:00 - [214] Edited by: Frank Horrigan on 24/06/2006 05:42:50 I donno why people think amarrians suck.. mabye i just maxed all the amarrian skills.. I had a machariel.. sold that crap load for an apoc again. my zealot pwns anything it locks... thats about all I fly really.. a brutix is preety cool too though .. hmm.. bored... wanders out of topic Oh I will add, amarr have terrible DPS compaired to anything else.. My t2 zealot gets something like 275 dps.. with maxxed skills in nearley everything.. and implants.. however..a brutix can easily get more then that, and a better tank.. actuily.. a brutix can.. preety much tank a zealot.. as I learned on test server when one atacked me unexpectedly and I was preety much 50/50 with it.. but we have our ups.. we could use a 25% dps increase across the board really.. otherwise.. no complaints.. actily one.. we need FIVE armor repairer catagorys.. not 3.. we need small, medium, medium-large, large, Extra Large.. beucase theres a spot between 1 armor rep, and dual rep tank on both apoc and zealot that ***es me off.. becuase 2 reps and its a little too much tank, but not enough gained for the pg and other slot.. however its NESSISARY to recover some hp per second.. same with apoc.. but I guess that would put amarr ontop of everything else again. sigh* ballencing sucks..
Andreask14	Posted - 2006.06.24 06:01:00 - [215] Thing is: Amarr lost its DPS advantage. Loses the ECM war. Has always had the worst choices when ratting. Doesnt have any fancy toys on any t1 ships, and only a handful of good t2. BUT: Is still difficult to fit. Still locked to two 2 damage types. Still low sensor strength. Still eats its own ammo when tanking well enough. YOU SEE t2 ammo on other races might gimp your tank, or speed or something, with amarr EVERY AMMO gimps your tank. ________________________________________________ Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.24 07:06:00 - [216] Originally by: Andreask14 You ppl must be kidding me, saying that its justified that the laser-ships of the amarr are sucking quite bad right now, and that i should adapt by training more. Isnt it ok, that i want to fly competitive t1 ships with lasers? No? It never has, and it never will be. Drones are secondary weapons on virtually every ship and need to be trained to stay ahead of the game. I hate training drone skills but it needs to be done. Like I said, if you honestly think this is something new and unfair on Amarr, look at the other races first. The fact that you managed to get along with so few skillpoints shows you how unbalanced Amarr really were. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Andreask14	Posted - 2006.06.24 07:09:00 - [217] I dont have less skillpoints than anybody else, and i do have drones trained. ________________________________________________ Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are.
ParMizaN	Posted - 2006.06.24 07:49:00 - [218] I'm a diehard amarr pilot, dreadnaught and all. Amarr aren't "broken." Yes they have their problems but so do ever race and i would still consider the minmatar to be the underdogs. BDCI Recruitment Officersig edited for lack of pink really PINK -eris
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.24 08:11:00 - [219] Originally by: Weirda but 'lost art of keeping a secret' is a Queens of the Stone Age song after all. O rly? @Sarmaul: You never sat in a geddon right? FFS wtf are you spitting out here? Of course you need to use your drone bay for versatility, but versatility in this game is ECM so I use ECM drones. We don't need high thermal lasers? How would you like to not be able to break a bs's tank in your geddon because he tanks with EANM t2's? Why don't you read the points I made up? No way to nuke them eh? Maybe these are really the issues? I really can't understand why there are minnies posting and 50% of it is bullcrap anyway. Get a geddon, fit it, try to kill domi's/ravens/tempests/megas with it. You will get kills, of course, but you will get raped if they have ECM or EANM t2 tank

Jacques Archambault	Posted - 2006.06.24 09:04:00 - [220] This thread has gone far enough. Locked for flamebait. If you would like to bring something to a Dev's attention it helps to formulate a post/thread in a polite and constructive manner. Email [email protected] if the thread is being flamed/hijacked and we will take care of it. -Jacques' forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website! Want to be an EVE-Online forum moderator? click here!


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