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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5363
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Posted - 2014.07.12 23:16:00 -
[181] - Quote
While the awox suggestion is nothing new, it would be very easy to implement and have a very positive effect for new players getting into this game. That change should happen ASAP. The Paradox |
Lila Merle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2014.07.12 23:20:00 -
[182] - Quote
I was in Uitra running career agent missions for repairing standings and I saw some activity which I did think was newbie unfriendly. Can baiting, duels between a 7month and a 1day character. I'm not sure whether these should be prohibited or just warned about in the missions. Perhaps an introduction to becoming suspect and to duels might be in order?
BTW, BNI or RvB. I can't decide. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5363
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Posted - 2014.07.12 23:22:00 -
[183] - Quote
Lila Merle wrote:BTW, BNI or RvB. I can't decide.
Do you like bubbles?
The Paradox |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1952
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Posted - 2014.07.12 23:23:00 -
[184] - Quote
People are deluded.
Nobody is going to play a 10 year old MMO widely known for griefing, backstabbing, and all kinds of asshattery because suddenly you'll have some anti-greifing protections.
The suggestion of WoW-ifying EVE would be mocked endlessly if anyone but the Bee-Keeper himself suggested it, but apparenly after making nullsec about as dull as possible, the goal is to do the same for the rest of the game. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1781
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:25:00 -
[185] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:People are deluded.
Nobody is going to play a 10 year old MMO widely known for griefing, backstabbing, and all kinds of asshattery because suddenly you'll have some anti-greifing protections.
The suggestion of WoW-ifying EVE would be mocked endlessly if anyone but the Bee-Keeper himself suggested it, but apparenly after making nullsec about as dull as possible, the goal is to do the same for the rest of the game.
Fortunately, a lot of people are mocking it. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10637
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Posted - 2014.07.12 23:33:00 -
[186] - Quote
Nobody's suggesting WoW-ifying EVE. If you think that's what he's saying then your reading comprehension sucks.
And null doesn't suck because we made it suck, null sucks because we've reached an inevitable end-state. It should have been evident from the very beginning that this sort of thing could happen, regardless of what alliances or what leaders inhabit nullsec. If you want content you have to provide a reason for that content, and in nullsec the only reason is conquest. Once any group has conquered a significant portion of nullsec (as will inevitably happen) they reach a point where they see no need to expand any further. Other groups come to the same point and soon you have stagnation. B0TLRD is not a cause, it is a symptom. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
328
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Posted - 2014.07.12 23:44:00 -
[187] - Quote
What we need is the flip side to eve university. A group of players who specifically target new players, destroy everything they have, and make it abundantly clear they are *not* safe. Then give them enough isk to get back on their feet(how many new players do we give isk to anyways?), and tell them they get this one as a freebie. If they have a problem they can either leave now, learn to evade, or come back and kill their "teacher" when they're ready. Not exactly griefers, as they openly give advice and help new players, but without any of the "safety" and care bear mindset of e-uni. No offense to e uni. they fulfill an important role, but every graduate I've seen has had to unlearn a lot of things. And e-uni teaches players to avoid fights and drop corp if they get wardecced.
I know most players I've met who really learned eve quickly did so in groups like brave newbies, rifterlings, suddenly ninjas, and a bunch of other pvp groups. Yeah the new players died a lot, but who cares? I still sometimes fit up ships and suicide into overwhelming odds because its fun. We should be teaching new players both how to survive and how to accept death, not just how to survive. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1953
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:45:00 -
[188] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nobody's suggesting WoW-ifying EVE. If you think that's what he's saying then your reading comprehension sucks.
And null doesn't suck because we made it suck, null sucks because we've reached an inevitable end-state. It should have been evident from the very beginning that this sort of thing could happen, regardless of what alliances or what leaders inhabit nullsec.
I couldn't disagree more. The current leaders of nullsec have asked people to hold their noses and ally with enemies, mindlessly shoot structures, sit through node crashes and TiDi, and deal with the endless sea of blue, for some future goal that apparenly would be better then what they had before.
Well the future is here. Having fun yet? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Alternative Splicing
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2014.07.12 23:48:00 -
[189] - Quote
Lost in the discussion somewhere is that a lack of content in the rest of the game causes some bored players to become griefers. There's nothing wrong with griefing, and there are lots of big easy kills to be made in hisec so it is quite natural to look there. What's really wrong with that picture is that he rest of the universe is so target poor, for many reasons. This ends up focusing lots of the griefers into hisec. If you want to build a better pirate/griefer, you have to build a world where there's actually things to pirate/greif outside of hisec. Actually making lowsec lucrative or making hisec slightly less lucrative would go a long way towards this. |
Remiel Pollard
The Vigilance Institute
3875
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Posted - 2014.07.13 00:03:00 -
[190] - Quote
Mittens and Feyd appear to both be thinking in parallel to something that I've seen brought up before and was well received - we don't need or want any more nerfs to high sec, instead we want to prepare new players better for the challenge they are going to face. It's not about getting rid of or nerfing the griefers, or buffing the shinies that new people want to jump into the very second they log in, it's about 'buffing' their understanding of what they've just logged into.
At the moment, CCP are advertising this game as an orange (metaphor for "come and join the biggest space battles in MMO history!!!"), but players are surprised when they bite into a grapefruit (metaphor for "oh ****, I'm losing everything and this is only my second day, how is this possible!?"). Those of you who think 'griefing' is the problem, or that's what Mittens and Feyd are talking about, are addressing only a symptom of the real problem.
That's assuming it is one, though. There's still the not-at-all minor factoid that there are hundreds of thousands of us that got through that stage just fine. I did it without even really meeting anyone for most of my first year in the game, and stuck around because I enjoyed the game proper just enough to overwhelm any 'qq' feelings. And so too will anyone that enjoys the game in this manner.
So now we're back to intended/likely audience, which is people like those that have stuck around beyond the NPE. I'm divided on this - on one hand, Mittens and Feyd are right about needing new tutorials. On the other, they're wrong about the extent those tutorials need to take - even with a full-on "this is EVE" tutorial like the ones they both suggest, there will still be plenty of people quitting the game within their trial period, and then many more that may sub and leave later. These players are the ones that were always going to leave, no matter what you do, because they are not the game's intended audience. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
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Felicity Love
Ka'ra Shabuir Inc.
2024
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Posted - 2014.07.13 00:08:00 -
[191] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote: Remember that in the military even the Cook and Radio guy knows how to use a machine gun.
At least until the cook poisons 200 guys with a box of warfarin in the "Sloppy Joe" or the radio guy brings down "Red Bag Eight" on his own grid ref.
No fresh clones for those guys, so your backasswards analogy tends to lose a bit of it's "ooomph" right about there.
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
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Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
328
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Posted - 2014.07.13 00:09:00 -
[192] - Quote
I kind of agree and disagree at the same time. I got into eve 3 times before I stuck. I did well for myself all 3 times. It wasn't the scary world that pushed me away, but the fact that I was mostly exposed to boring PvE. Its more than just arming the noobs and teaching them skills. Its also helping them to find their place. I enjoyed mining for about a week before I got fed up with it. I enjoyed missions for about 2 weeks. I enjoyed ninjaing, exploration, and evading gankers in low and null for 5 years and counting. Even players who understand and thrive in the eve universe may still be driven away by boredom if all they see is missions. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7815
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Posted - 2014.07.13 00:16:00 -
[193] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:While the awox suggestion is nothing new, it would be very easy to implement and have a very positive effect for new players getting into this game. That change should happen ASAP.
This point is the one that is the most useless.
There are plenty of reasons for someone to be suspicious of new players besides awoxing. Corp theft and spying being chief among them. Nevermind wormhole groups.
Opsec would not stop being a thing. So that helps nothing.
Furthermore, the assertion that it's even hard for new characters to get into a corp is completely false. I am a prolific awoxer, and I *maybe* find one corp in eight that actually turns me down for being too new. And most of those are because they had a skillpoint limit, which is entirely unrelated. New players do NOT have a problem getting into corps.
So the very premise is false. All it would do is add more safety to highsec, which does not need to happen, ever. If anything the opposite needs to take place. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10643
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 00:39:00 -
[194] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nobody's suggesting WoW-ifying EVE. If you think that's what he's saying then your reading comprehension sucks.
And null doesn't suck because we made it suck, null sucks because we've reached an inevitable end-state. It should have been evident from the very beginning that this sort of thing could happen, regardless of what alliances or what leaders inhabit nullsec. I couldn't disagree more. The current leaders of nullsec have asked people to hold their noses and ally with enemies, mindlessly shoot structures, sit through node crashes and TiDi, and deal with the endless sea of blue, for some future goal that apparenly would be better then what they had before. Well the future is here. Having fun yet? I'm waiting for the part where you demonstrate that this isn't a natural and inevitable result of nullsec game mechanics. In other words, not entirely CCP's fault. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1953
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 00:55:00 -
[195] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm waiting for the part where you demonstrate that this isn't a natural and inevitable result of nullsec game mechanics. In other words, not entirely CCP's fault.
It's entirely your fault, and your choices, and anyone else that chose not to you ran over with your midinless blob bragging how you're going to make the game as un-fun as possible for your "enemies" because ~reasons~. Enjoy your glorius result. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7818
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Posted - 2014.07.13 00:56:00 -
[196] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm waiting for the part where you demonstrate that this isn't a natural and inevitable result of nullsec game mechanics. In other words, not entirely CCP's fault.
It's entirely your fault, and your choices, and anyone else that chose not to you ran over with your midinless blob bragging how you're going to make the game as un-fun as possible for your "enemies" because ~reasons~. Enjoy your glorius result.
Because anybody should bother being nice against a sworn enemy? Against people who have said the only reason they exist is to eradicate you?
Are you high? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1953
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 01:16:00 -
[197] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm waiting for the part where you demonstrate that this isn't a natural and inevitable result of nullsec game mechanics. In other words, not entirely CCP's fault.
It's entirely your fault, and your choices, and anyone else that chose not to you ran over with your midinless blob bragging how you're going to make the game as un-fun as possible for your "enemies" because ~reasons~. Enjoy your glorius result. Because anybody should bother being nice against a sworn enemy? Against people who have said the only reason they exist is to eradicate you? Are you high?
Hey like I said, enjoy your result.
Just do the rest of us having a blast in EVE a favor and don't screw up other areas with your ideas of what fun is.
P.S. If you want to get technical, you recruited most of your enemies. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7818
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Posted - 2014.07.13 01:19:00 -
[198] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm waiting for the part where you demonstrate that this isn't a natural and inevitable result of nullsec game mechanics. In other words, not entirely CCP's fault.
It's entirely your fault, and your choices, and anyone else that chose not to you ran over with your midinless blob bragging how you're going to make the game as un-fun as possible for your "enemies" because ~reasons~. Enjoy your glorius result. Because anybody should bother being nice against a sworn enemy? Against people who have said the only reason they exist is to eradicate you? Are you high? Hey like I said, enjoy your result. Just do the rest of us having a blast in EVE a favor and don't screw up other areas with your ideas of what fun is.
I'm not a Goon. I just have no idea why you think they would bother being nice to people who have made it their mission in life to go after them.
Honestly. It's backflipping stupid to think that you should be nice to your enemies. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Chewytowel Haklar
Dayman Industries
37
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Posted - 2014.07.13 01:30:00 -
[199] - Quote
It appears the Goons are the games biggest carebears with their glorious leader suggesting the exact opposite of everything most EVE players want, a safe little nerf padded playground for new players filled with rainbows and sunshine. I am beginning to suspect Goonswarm set sail for nullsec to merely create their own little cute carebear space for all to feel safe in and really aren't for the dangerous EVE CCP intended at all.
This clearly shows the Goons for what they really are. |
Remiel Pollard
The Vigilance Institute
3878
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Posted - 2014.07.13 01:38:00 -
[200] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:It appears the Goons are the games biggest carebears with their glorious leader suggesting the exact opposite of everything most EVE players want, a safe little nerf padded playground for new players filled with rainbows and sunshine. I am beginning to suspect Goonswarm set sail for nullsec to merely create their own little cute carebear space for all to feel safe in and really aren't for the dangerous EVE CCP intended at all.
This clearly shows the Goons for what they really are.
Do you even know what TM is suggesting or is the title of this thread the extent of your source material behind this comment? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
People complain about how 'empty' space is. Personally, I would be complaining if it were more 'full'.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10645
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Posted - 2014.07.13 02:01:00 -
[201] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm waiting for the part where you demonstrate that this isn't a natural and inevitable result of nullsec game mechanics. In other words, not entirely CCP's fault.
It's entirely your fault, and your choices No because again you're missing the fact that this is the natural and inevitable progression of a broken sov system.
Our choices were entirely logical. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
329
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Posted - 2014.07.13 02:23:00 -
[202] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm waiting for the part where you demonstrate that this isn't a natural and inevitable result of nullsec game mechanics. In other words, not entirely CCP's fault.
It's entirely your fault, and your choices No because again you're missing the fact that this is the natural and inevitable progression of a broken sov system.Our choices were entirely logical.
To be fair, being 100% logical in any game is boring. I can't think of many games in which my experience was improved by excessive optimization. There's a point at which you must sacrifice success for fun. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Zero Sum Gain
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM Silent Requiem
56
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Posted - 2014.07.13 02:25:00 -
[203] - Quote
I first tried EVE in 2006. I don't recall any particular reason why I quit but I don't really remember a reason why I would have kept playing either.
I tried it then because I kept hearing how it was the ultimate pvp game.
I remember flying around to gates and all being weird and not understanding why what happened in combat was happening. After a while I didn't really care enough to learn more. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10645
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Posted - 2014.07.13 02:38:00 -
[204] - Quote
Garresh wrote:To be fair, being 100% logical in any game is boring. I can't think of many games in which my experience was improved by excessive optimization. There's a point at which you must sacrifice success for fun. We've had fun. It's been fun. Sure, we could reset all our allies and have fun shooting them, but after a time we'd reach equilibrium again, only this time without space and without friends (so even worse than now). No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
tu beeshvat
parr voloko corp
0
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Posted - 2014.07.13 03:21:00 -
[205] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:While the awox suggestion is nothing new, it would be very easy to implement and have a very positive effect for new players getting into this game. That change should happen ASAP. This point is the one that is the most useless. 1) There are plenty of reasons for someone to be suspicious of new players besides awoxing. Corp theft and spying being chief among them. Nevermind wormhole groups. Opsec would not stop being a thing. So that helps nothing. 2) Furthermore, the assertion that it's even hard for new characters to get into a corp is completely false. I am a prolific awoxer, and I *maybe* find one corp in eight that actually turns me down for being too new. And most of those are because they had a skillpoint limit, which is entirely unrelated. New players do NOT have a problem getting into corps. So the very premise is false. All it would do is add more safety to highsec, which does not need to happen, ever. If anything the opposite needs to take place. 1) No, there aren't. Not for new player high-sec corps which is the obvious focus of this discussion. They have no reason to care about spies as they don't own any space or assets that can be taken in such a manner. Corp theft is entirely preventable, that is to say they can invite 1,000 new players, have them all play each day for a full year, with none of them ever having access to something to steal.
2) Yes, they can get into idiot corps with a CEO that belongs in WoW. The point is that established groups that would otherwise accept newbros by the dozen will not, because they are smart enough not to.
So no, the idea is not worthless. The ability to shoot your own corpmates in high-sec is cowards PvP, and the enjoyment of a few cowards does not matter.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6228
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Posted - 2014.07.13 03:35:00 -
[206] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Garresh wrote:To be fair, being 100% logical in any game is boring. I can't think of many games in which my experience was improved by excessive optimization. There's a point at which you must sacrifice success for fun. We've had fun. It's been fun. Sure, we could reset all our allies and have fun shooting them, but after a time we'd reach equilibrium again, only this time without space and without friends (so even worse than now). Can the great northernassociatesdot sacrifice some space for fun, thanks ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10649
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Posted - 2014.07.13 03:39:00 -
[207] - Quote
Cowardly or not it's a legitimate form of PVP. And if you had asked me over three years ago when I was a highsec newbie with his corp full of other newbies who didn't know much about the game at all, when we were awoxed by a player who destroyed our orca plus several battleships (at that time worth quite a lot to us), I would have said the same thing. So would my corpmates. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6228
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Posted - 2014.07.13 03:41:00 -
[208] - Quote
suddenly, delegitimization via game mechanics
in our next patch ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
675
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Posted - 2014.07.13 03:47:00 -
[209] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:suddenly, delegitimization via game mechanics
in our next patch CCP, shaking the ant farm, to see what the ants do next. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6228
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Posted - 2014.07.13 04:12:00 -
[210] - Quote
It's the mittani, and this is general discussion
There's some puppetmastering and GD will root it out. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
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