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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
7824
   |
Posted - 2014.07.13 04:27:00 -
[211] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:It's the mittani, and this is general discussion
There's some puppetmastering and GD will root it out.
Having just now read his previous entry in the series, I now think it quite likely that he is the best troll ever.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Wildmouse X
Clan McLoud
Care Factor
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 04:34:00 -
[212] - Quote
I started playing 3 months ago, still figuring things out but enjoying the experience.... But this isn't the first open PvP sandbox MMO I had played, so I knew what to expect in regards to griefers and gankers and what not. In my experience's so far, Eve is very tame.. sure I was ganked 6 times, podded 4 day one, and just got ganked and podded tonight.. and yes I've seen all the isk traders wanting to scam me from my money.
You see, I had previous experience as a beta tester for 10/Six. Basically it was an empty planet full of gas and you get a plot of land to mine. there were 5 vents per plot, and your home plot can't be attacked until you first leave it. people would talk new players into leaving the plot if they wanted to come pick up a better gun within minutes of their first loading in. Most clans made their money by claiming all the land around a noob, and then offer to sell them one only to take both by force once they moved out.
one of the better ones we saw was there would be clans "dedicated" to protecting noobies. they'd get like 20 new players to agree to mutual defense - the leaders would come visit the noobs so they didn't have to leave and help they develop the land for max production....... but the 2-3 vet's that are running the clan are also part of a much larger clan - so when all the noobs go to defend the attack on their leaders - the leaders other clan comes and takes all the already developed, undefended land, then they plop down drones to defend it so the noobs can't take it back, and finish the whole thing off with their former leaders emailing them " I can't believe you fell for that" " dumbf@*#$" and so on. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
292
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 04:46:00 -
[213] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:It's the mittani, and this is general discussion
There's some puppetmastering and GD will root it out. Having just now read his previous entry in the series, I now think it quite likely that he is the best troll ever.
I for one missed Sins of a Solar Spymaster. I can't wait for a whole bunch of angry victims to quote lines from it at me when I destroy their ship/liberate their stuff. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
7824
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 04:53:00 -
[214] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:It's the mittani, and this is general discussion
There's some puppetmastering and GD will root it out. Having just now read his previous entry in the series, I now think it quite likely that he is the best troll ever. I for one missed Sins of a Solar Spymaster. I can't wait for a whole bunch of angry victims to quote lines from it at me when I destroy their ship/liberate their stuff.
No, I meant the post earlier this week about why he is going to start blogging again. There are one or two tongue in cheek references to it being a big troll.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Kudos12345
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 05:18:00 -
[215] - Quote
Like the blogger said, its the players that make the interesting content for this game, so it would be good if CCP gave us more paintbrushes. Some sort of a new player identification programme lets face it in a game where paranoia is considered a virtue, a newbie is more likely to be treated as a spy alt by vet players than anything else. Agree that the NPE sucks but having a higher high sec is not the solution ( you really want something even more boring than high sec?). |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7200
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 05:50:00 -
[216] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Arkady Romanov wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:It's the mittani, and this is general discussion
There's some puppetmastering and GD will root it out. Having just now read his previous entry in the series, I now think it quite likely that he is the best troll ever. I for one missed Sins of a Solar Spymaster. I can't wait for a whole bunch of angry victims to quote lines from it at me when I destroy their ship/liberate their stuff. No, I meant the post earlier this week about why he is going to start blogging again. There are one or two tongue in cheek references to it being a big troll.
I gathered that too. Hope it's all a troll lol.
If it isn't, it's wrong headed. When i started playing EVE was much harsher. Year after Year CCP has taken well intentioned but ultimately foolish steps aimed at 'openning up' the game and makign the new player experience better yada, yada. When it was a totally harsh universe of darkness it grew, now that there is all this hand holding crap (like safeties and multiple warning about jumping into unsafe space just to name a couple), the growth stops.
It's because there are 2 types of people, the kind that will like a game like EVE and those who won't. Change it to cater to those who won't and they STILL won't come or stay, while at the very same time you loose the loyal customer that actually liked EVE and was willing to keep paying for it.
One of the best things about the Goons is that they RIP their (new to the game) newbs out of high sec/safety damn near the second they are 'born'. They do that so that the newb will see real EVE not the 'EVE-lite' protected space is. Sink or Swim has been used for centuries to wonderful effect.
The Spartans did it, sent young men out into the wild to earn their manhood. If the Spartans of old were like the Carebears of today, Leonidas would have been locked in a room with 2 blind and lame kittens "so he could ease his way into being a warrior without beng griefed by actually dangerous animals" lol.
Screw a newb safe zone. You want to improve the NPE, have people start in low sec so that real EVE isn't such a damn shock to them when they experience it. There is a reason my country's Marines are trained in San Diego and Paris Island instead of Beverly Hills and the Hamptons........ |
Haaranovor tenn
Trans Secunda
Nulli Secunda
9
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 05:51:00 -
[217] - Quote
Wow. Mittens. Have you lost your spaceballs or something?
Fixing the tutorials is one thing, but whole zones? **** that ****. When I first started I undocked my little imperator and saw a ******* abbadon warp off station and was like... ****! DA **** WAS THAT?! I WANT IT! I WANT IT NOW! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
10653
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 06:42:00 -
[218] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:One of the best things about the Goons is that they RIP their (new to the game) newbs out of high sec/safety damn near the second they are 'born'. They do that so that the newb will see real EVE not the 'EVE-lite' protected space is. Sink or Swim has been used for centuries to wonderful effect.
Sink or swim... while being showered in ISK, skillbooks, and free frigates. And when they move up the ladder to doctrine ships, those have ISK reimbursement (which Goonwaffe members get a special cut of, although other member corps are free to do this as well).
Goonwaffe's NPE is not one that the game is able to replicate on its own. If you were to make an actual sink-or-swim NPE you'd place the player in nullsec with pretty limited support. Can't give people isk - that would be abused pretty hard. Can't give people too many ships - that would be abused pretty hard. Can't really bring a player in with established social groups, because those that can do so are already doing so. Free skillbooks is about it. You dump new players into space with free-engagement and they're just going to get killed with impunity, and quit because they have no chance of fighting back. The same would happen even if you restricted this pvp to the new characters only, since there's no reliable way for the game to tell if a player of a new character is actually new themselves or not. You end up with the same situation.
Mittens could come out right now and say he's trolling. Wouldn't change any of what I've written here.
No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
10653
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 06:52:00 -
[219] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The Spartans did it, sent young men out into the wild to earn their manhood. If the Spartans of old were like the Carebears of today, Leonidas would have been locked in a room with 2 blind and lame kittens "so he could ease his way into being a warrior without beng griefed by actually dangerous animals" lol.
Quote:Any male who did not successfully pass through the agoge would be denied Spartan citizenship. At various times this selection process came to be seen as detrimental to Spartan society particularly when the number of free male Spartan citizens dwindled.
Huh.
No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2465
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 06:59:00 -
[220] - Quote
Whatever the problem, TiDi, disconnects, POS issues, losing that Titan etc, hi-sec is to blame.
This is not a signature. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
10653
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 07:02:00 -
[221] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Whatever the problem, TiDi, disconnects, POS issues, losing that Titan etc, hi-sec is to blame.
Is that your response to everything now?
No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Dave Stark
6595
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 07:21:00 -
[222] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Whatever the problem, TiDi, disconnects, POS issues, losing that Titan etc, hi-sec is to blame. Is that your response to everything now?
but those things are clearly so integral to the NPE. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 07:23:00 -
[223] - Quote
Garresh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:No because again you're missing the fact that this is the natural and inevitable progression of a broken sov system.
Our choices were entirely logical. To be fair, being 100% logical in any game is boring. I can't think of many games in which my experience was improved by excessive optimization. There's a point at which you must sacrifice success for fun.
Null as it is now is a result of choices made by basic human nature (protect what you have and share it only with the ones you love).
You can go ahead and be Karl Marx and invent some idea of better angels that humanity is not, but give any random assortment of humans the same resources that Goonswarm has and you will get a big, blue donut.
.. when everything else is gone .. |
HighSec Content Creator
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 07:54:00 -
[224] - Quote
This thread is interesting only because one forum troll almost made peace with another, a rare event worth celebrating because people actually got back to discussing the topic.
Apart from that watching BlueSec Nullbears trying to kill HighSec yet again is boring.
Dear Nullbears, go play your other games!
You've "won" this game now let "us" (the people who actually login and play the game) get on with it... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
7826
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 08:22:00 -
[225] - Quote
HighSec Content Creator wrote:
You've "won" this game now let "us" (the people who actually login and play the game) get on with it...
Botting, or pretending to be a bot, doesn't count as playing the game.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Dave Stark
6595
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 08:29:00 -
[226] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:HighSec Content Creator wrote:
You've "won" this game now let "us" (the people who actually login and play the game) get on with it...
Botting, or pretending to be a bot, doesn't count as playing the game.
*looks at all the ishtars in null sec anoms*
Moving swiftly on... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
7826
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 08:35:00 -
[227] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:HighSec Content Creator wrote:
You've "won" this game now let "us" (the people who actually login and play the game) get on with it...
Botting, or pretending to be a bot, doesn't count as playing the game. *looks at all the ishtars in null sec anoms* Moving swiftly on...
Meh. Killed a bunch of those guys recently on another toon of mine. If they're bots, they're tremendously ****** bots to not run away when local spikes by two. I think they're more likely a consequence of the lamewad drone mechanics that let your drones defend your ship for you.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
231
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 08:38:00 -
[228] - Quote
insert one of the 20,000 snotshots Goons would throw at anyone else who even tried to suggest that maybe player behavior is at the root of a shrinking EVE. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
889
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 09:43:00 -
[229] - Quote
Mittani suggests a fenced off newbie area to improve NPE.
Cites WOW success as example.
Illustration of how money eats everything. Business needs to be balanced or you end up with the bland theme park.
Leader of big coalition does not qualify you as game designer or business manager. It's like listening to a great dancer talk about his ideas about how to vamp up the disco scene.
BESIDES, newbro area would be griefed by exactly those baby eaters that are wasting miners around jita. So that flushes that idea entirely.
Across the world people are spending slightly less on fun things. Best NPE in the world does badly when customers aren't spending.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
7826
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 09:46:00 -
[230] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:
BESIDES, newbro area would be griefed by exactly those baby eaters that are wasting miners around jita. So that flushes that idea entirely.
Children are the future... of fine dining. 
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Prince Kobol
1968
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 09:52:00 -
[231] - Quote
Eve by its very nature will always make a large proportion of new players quit and nothing you do to the NPE will change that.
CCP advertises Eve as a place where stealing, cheating, back stabbing and basically acting like a total douche bag is a must, so this in turns attracts a certain type of person.
One of the most commonly pieces of advice given to new players by the Eve community is never trust anybody ever.
Most Corps / Alliances are in a state of constant paranoia. Any new character must be a spy and if not a spy then a noob so an opportunity to be scammed.
When you put all this together is it no wonder that most new players leave never to return? |
Inir Ishtori
Perkone
Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 09:59:00 -
[232] - Quote
You can be griefed in newbie zones of WoW in about the same way as you will in EvE, btw. In both cases it is enough to use some common sense to avoid it almost entirely.
Penalty-free same corp awoxing should be removed/looked into - that's a good suggestion, though. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
2060
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 10:06:00 -
[233] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:When you put all this together is it no wonder that most new players leave never to return?
Nope, no wonder and from my perspective it's perfectly fine.
Seems to me there are 2 ways to increase the number of new paying players:
1. Increase the rate at which players convert (ie. fix NPE to give greater appreciation/safety of the game); or
2. Get more people to try the game so that more of life's 'scumbags'** try the game
There is room in the game for both city builder type players and for pvpers, but people in both groups need the maturity to realise that this is a niche game that challenges and rewards people who generate their own fun rather than waiting for the game to feed it to them.
We don't need to create a WoW-like area to attract more WoW-like players, but that may not be the best language to use to express that.
** By scumbags, I mean mature people able to separate life from a game and recognise that internet space toys are there to be destroyed and stolen
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
512
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 10:43:00 -
[234] - Quote
Sisohiv wrote:insert one of the 20,000 snotshots Goons would throw at anyone else who even tried to suggest that maybe player behavior is at the root of a shrinking EVE.
So what you are saying is you agree with his comments completely, but because the sentiment is coming from a Goon, you can't say that, and since you can't disagree (since it aligns with your own opinion) you are just going to make a snarky comment.
And people think we are the problem.
|
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
232
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 11:20:00 -
[235] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Sisohiv wrote:insert one of the 20,000 snotshots Goons would throw at anyone else who even tried to suggest that maybe player behavior is at the root of a shrinking EVE. So what you are saying is you agree with his comments completely, but because the sentiment is coming from a Goon, you can't say that, and since you can't disagree (since it aligns with your own opinion) you are just going to make a snarky comment. And people think we are the problem.
HTFU?
Can I haz your stuff?
Go back to WoW?
Don't let the door smack you in the ass?
Adapt or die?
I agree with someone on this forum. Mr. Epeen.
I trust you guys about as far as I can throw you. |
Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
2024
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 11:28:00 -
[236] - Quote
Well, if it's going to be "WoW" ( egads and gadzooks ! ) as an example of how to do things, then I guess EVE either needs a separate "realm" where no PVP is allowed, or PVP is only allowed by express consent. Twiddle the targeting mechanics so that those who have NOT consented to PVP can not be targeted, or are simply "invulnerable".
Should do wonders for that sacred NPE.
Besides, we've got duelling --- so we're already headed down that slippery slope --- but hey, there's still time to rename Jita to "Warsong Gulch" and get this whole charade over with.
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
|
Alastair Ormand
Running With Scissors.
Apocalypse Now.
69
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 11:52:00 -
[237] - Quote
I'm agreeing with that article 100%.
The player base says it's about "throwing people in the deep end" and making them learn the game themselves and being better for it. But this seems to be a very bad approach, especially with games like WoW offering a more relaxed and easy approach to getting started, it becomes a case of "Hmm should I play the easy to follow and learn game that helps you get to know the game and ease into it" or the "HOLY **** WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING?, UNDOCK BUTTON. THE **** IS THAT, IM DEAD, WHAT JUST HAPPENED?" game that gives you next to no instruction on how a lot of the simple mechanics work.
I'm pretty sure the casual gamer would chose the first option. A game can't keep driving away customers and expect to survive. They need these new players to stay and if it means changing something drastically that has been an almost "tradition" if you will, then so be it. More players = more content! Ease people into the cruel universe that is Eve Online and after that let them decide if they want to continue with this brutal, brutal game further.
I almost quit this game myself as it was incredibly difficult to learn how to play, the starter tutorial was awful and I had to ask for so much help from the rookie channel it was ridiculous.
But I persisted and here I am. 1 year later (to the day I think, wowser) with 6 accounts and apart of a great alliance.
Don't run with a stick in your mouth.
|
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
8
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 12:02:00 -
[238] - Quote
You know I find it hard to believe that the guys who were killing 1day old miners in newbie system whine about npe griefing and awoxing.Its quite obvious we're not gonna turn into wow, its up to the players to not drive new players away, but most ppl prefer to be mean ingame cuz that gives them a piece of joy at the expense of others which is what most of eve is about anyway |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
232
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 12:14:00 -
[239] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Null as it is now is a result of choices made by basic human nature (protect what you have and SHARE IT ONLY WITH THE ONES YOU LOVE).
Basic human nature? What kind of human being are you, exactly, that that is your basic nature? . . . Oh, wait! Duh. You're an EVE player. That might help to illuminate why EVE has the new player experience that it has. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
512
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 12:20:00 -
[240] - Quote
Doublepost fail |
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