broken link. elaborate scam to gain page views?

Except that hisec corporations are skittish about letting 'new players' join because of hisec awoxing: griefers such as my own space-tribe joining a corporation and then murderzoning the membership through a loophole in Concord enforcement - you can join a corp and attack anyone in your own corporation, even in hisec. Here's another sacred cow to slaughter: hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies.

Mittani: Greifers drive away new players

Dave (edit: and Remedial) stop taking the bait. The guy is in Bastion, who's SRP comes from Mittens proverbial teat.

Plus, the title is about "greifers" not "griefers."

Hell must have frozen over, I find my-self in agreement with a goon...and not just any goon , but the arch goon. I will pinch myself to see if I am dreaming and check if my meds. have been spiked.

Same here.
But the big one is right- there are a whole bunch of game mechanics in EVE that are counter-intuitive for newbies and appear more like exploits or loopholes than actual game concepts.
And any game mechanic that disincentivizes players from actually playing the game (that is: socializing and pvp) is bad and should be removed.

So... who's going to make the F&I posts for the recommendations mentioned in the article?

Because I, for one, would like to see how CCP responds when all of the goons +1 an F&I suggestion.

So... who's going to make the F&I posts for the recommendations mentioned in the article?

Because I, for one, would like to see how CCP responds when all of the goons +1 an F&I suggestion.

Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.

Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.

Absolutely nothing. Same as almost everything that goes through F&I.

Hell must have frozen over, I find my-self in agreement with a goon...and not just any goon , but the arch goon. I will pinch myself to see if I am dreaming and check if my meds. have been spiked.

http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-newbie-zone

Not even a troll, honest.

Getting tips on improving the newbie experience from a Goonswam leader is like getting home security tips from Charles Manson.

Getting tips on improving the newbie experience from a Goonswam leader is like getting home security tips from Charles Manson.

... absolutely delicious, every last drop of this hypocritical AWOXER tear drama...

Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.

Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.

the npe is crap though, thats what we are discussing

The NPE drives away WoW carebear types, and has worked just fine in steadily increasing subs for CCP as long as nullsec had variety and action. Now that subs are dropping like crazy from nullsec stagnation, lets ask the Blue Donut Master himself how to fix the game.

(That 10% figure is comically overgenerous to the precious Eve Lore. Seriously, how do you make a fictional clash of space-empires such a snoozefest? Topic for another Traffic Control.)

Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.

Quick question;

As none of us are in charge, and none of us are NPs

Why is our input on NPE relevant?

Very few people's is relevant. Most of us can only offer what we ourselves would have enjoyed more of in the NPE when we first started.

Myself? I would have liked to skip it.

Of course, I only gave it serious attention many years ago, when it was more difficult

Quick question;

As none of us are in charge, and none of us are NPs

Why is our input on NPE relevant?

Quick question;
As none of us are in charge, and none of us are NPs

Why is our input on NPE relevant?

It's not, CCP gets ample feedback from real new players to work with.

It's worth poinintg out that, if the Goon-Lord and his merry band of Yes-Men really cared about new players and their experience, they could use their trillions in ISK assests to improve the new player experience themselves ... you know, like the real Goons of old used too, not work on Titan #300 and fine tune their content crushing BOTLORD agreements.

It's not, CCP gets ample feedback from real new players to work with.

It's worth poinintg out that, if the Goon-Lord and his merry band of Yes-Men really cared about new players and their experience, they could use their trillions in ISK assests to improve the new player experience themselves ... you know, like the real Goons of old used too, not work on Titan #300 and fine tune their content crushing BOTLORD agreements.

Quick question;

As none of us are in charge, and none of us are NPs

Why is our input on NPE relevant?

So now that the game has pretty much run out of actual noobs, they're considering to improve the NPE?

What will be next? They will improve PvE once the average mission runner would rather tear off his eyes than rescue the damsel for the thousandth time?

So now that the game has pretty much run out of actual noobs, they're considering to improve the NPE?

What will be next? They will improve PvE once the average mission runner would rather tear off his eyes than rescue the damsel for the thousandth time?

Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.

the NPE drives many people away, not just the wow carebears.

i doubt i'm the only one that made an account years ago and went "**** this ****" then came back some time later and gave it a second chance and just decided to trudge through the NPE like the **** filled bog that it is to see if there was anything on the other side.

you mean like showering new players with isk, and free tackle ships and double srp and... yeah they already do.

As the head of an alliance that has thrived mostly because we replace the garbage NPE with our own so our new recruits actually stay, I think Mitten's input on the NPE is exactly correct.

Highsec is too safe and lowsec is too dangerous. Lets just put it at that, and no I don't have a solution to fix it, and newbies don't have any way to learn but to figure it out themselfs. When I started I figured the game out, but watched so many people grab from baited cans and get slaughtered because they had no clue, regardless of rules.

Even after more than a few days into the game people still fall victim to game mechanics they do not yet understand.

They already DID you mean.

In the vast sea of allies, and nothing happening there isn't much to spend your ISK on, is there.

The Lord of the Bees always has an ulterior motive for what he writes.

Until I figure out what he's actually up to this time, I'll reserve comment on that weirdly out of character wall of words he posted.

Mr Epeen

Fixing in-corp awoxing does not need to go with making highsec safer: you could, for example, pair it with making corp-hopping to evade wardecs harder. But the fundamental problem is that EVE is a garbage game without other people most of the time, and highsec awoxing makes it just too difficult for good highsec corps to recruit new players. As a result, the only ones recruiting are the idiots who quickly get what's coming to them.

It's not, CCP gets ample feedback from real new players to work with.

It's worth poinintg out that, if the Goon-Lord and his merry band of Yes-Men really cared about new players and their experience, they could use their trillions in ISK assests to improve the new player experience themselves ... you know, like the real Goons of old used too, not work on Titan #300 and fine tune their content crushing BOTLORD agreements.

Highsec is too safe, lowsec is fine.

Highsec is too safe and lowsec is too dangerous. Lets just put it at that, and no I don't have a solution to fix it, and newbies don't have any way to learn but to figure it out themselfs. When I started I figured the game out, but watched so many people grab from baited cans and get slaughtered because they had no clue, regardless of rules.

Even after more than a few days into the game people still fall victim to game mechanics they do not yet understand.

Lowsec is a murderzone, you go there and your are guaranteed to die even if you are on ******* spam checking d,scan and locals.


Maybe if highsec wasn't so safe lowsec wouldn't be so dangerous. I honestly would like to see how a non concord empire would work. Too bad that won't happen. Most of the playerbase would leave.

I did once play a game almost 100% open pvp, but you didn't lose anything on death. It did have a usefull system though. It flagged you if you had combat with someone, and flaged them back if they attacked back. But if you killed someone who didn't defend themselves you were now red for a while and anyone could attack you without penalties and you couldn't use a teleporter. it would stack up if you continued and could only be waited out while online. Dunno that it would work in eve, if killing someone bared docking or running through gates for a more extended period.

That game also had a jail youd have to sit in or pay your way out of if you killed too many and managed to die. Course you only got jailed IF you died.

The best security information comes from convicts...just sayin'.

highsec is too safe.

No, wrong again. Lowsec is fine, highsec is too safe.

The Lord of the Bees always has an ulterior motive for what he writes.

Until I figure out what he's actually up to this time, I'll reserve comment on that weirdly out of character wall of words he posted.

Mr Epeen

makes his entire living off of it.

New Goons are told to get the hell out of hisec ASAP because hisec is terrible.

Ever consider that highsec, lowsec, w-holes, and NPC null isn't terrible, but that everyone in Goonswarm or in the other friend-enemy coalition is the terrible part? .. eh probably not.

Replenishing your meatshields, to crash nodes or terrible TiDi fights, doesn't impress anyone with an IQ over 3.

HOW DO I FIND THE BATTLE?

Gack! I can't.

There's a battle going on, I see smack in local.

But I don't know what to do to get to the battle........so,

The Lord of the Bees always has an ulterior motive for what he writes.

Until I figure out what he's actually up to this time, I'll reserve comment on that weirdly out of character wall of words he posted.

Mr Epeen

Wait what?

Getting tips on improving the newbie experience from a Goonswam leader is like getting home security tips from Charles Manson.

Except maybe for making Jove space Newbie zone because ~lore~. Otherwise, go for it. Make these changes and make them ASAP. It will only be better for the game.

Goonswarm are experts in new-player experience.
This is actually not a controversial statement at all and only ignorant people like you dispute it.

What Goons are actually good at is the cult like indoctrination of the low IQ nerdlings that think SA is the end game of the entire internet. Like any good cult leader, the king bee is charismatic and loved while at the same time enjoying the fruits of his willing slaves.

Sure. You can call it new player experience. And it is. Just not a good kind, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen

Goonswarm are experts in new-player experience.
This is actually not a controversial statement at all and only ignorant people like you dispute it.

And as for the lore, it isn't important on a day to day basis but it does set the tone of the universe, and what exists in it. Scrapping it for something as insulting as retooling the NPE to coddle people who will just quit in a month anyway is a truly insulting notion. Normally, I'm the first to defend the nullsec culture, but maybe if you named your stations something besides "TROLOLOL XOXO THIS GUY IS A PUBBIE LOLOLOL" you might understand.

Your name does a lot to support your position on that, friend

Think what you want, my points still stand.

Which I accept but so does mine

You are a hypocrit, sir

Hisec is terrible because of the many, confusing, somewhat contradictory, arbitrary, and capricious rules that a player has to learn to survive there. All these rules were made up to "protect" players from non-consensual PVP and instead are exploited endlessly, and hilariously, by more knowledgeable players. The ruleset governing all other areas of space is vastly simpler and therefore easy to grasp.

A politically charged Eve Thread on Saturday

What Goons are actually good at is the cult like indoctrination of the low IQ nerdlings that think SA is the end game of the entire internet. Like any good cult leader, the king bee is charismatic and loved while at the same time enjoying the fruits of his willing slaves.

Sure. You can call it new player experience. And it is. Just not a good kind, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen

I am not a role player, character names to not matter. However, there is a big difference between naming your character something stupid and naming an outpost

I am not a role player,

Not only that, but the denizens of highsec have no idea about the kind of sword that is dangling over their heads. After a decade of them handcuffing us and trying to tighten the noose, if our leash is slipped even slightly we are going to fall on them like the Fist of God. Because they've earned it.

Most of them have no idea what grief is.

*snip*

...if our leash is slipped even slightly we are going to fall on them like the Fist of God. Because they've earned it.

*snip*

No there isnt

How is your name within the lore?

Where is that IZ meme when you need it? Your quote here reminds me of "trained attack dogs." Lol.

Those carebears will get the "sternest telling off ever, non-violently, of course."

How is yours?

No, I actually have a pair, and I'm not a passive aggressive wuss, so I'll say what I mean.

How isnt it? Its a name with a proper surname, and proper forename and thousands years of entomological history behind it.

Please help masternerdguy to defend his in-lore name. First you can point to a culture in New Enden that doesnt capitalise give names

Then you can explain how the station he quoted is a worse name than his own, within the lore

But how is it in the lore? What about this name makes it valid in the EVE universe? Even today, people name their kids stupid stuff. And lots of people go by nicknames, callsigns, and other aliases later in life anyway, especially when involved in fancy stuff.

So... by that argument you can call a station anything you like, yes?

So... by that argument you can call a station anything you like, yes?

If we accept that both names are out of role play, then we can still see that one instance is clearly worse than the other.

I am curious, however, how this actually matters in the context of the original post? How does the way a character is named impact whether or not they are able to cope with the challenges in EVE?

Can you two take the RP discussion to PMs, please. While this thread is from the start a grievous (pun intended) misrepresentation and a false flag, talking about whose RP is more heinous than the other is completely off topic.

You're both equally awful, and God loves you both anyway.

Not objectively, no
I simply pointed out he was in no position to point fingers regarding silly names.

[quote=Ramona McCandless]

Objectively yes, it's just like there's a difference between say eating a grape you didn't pay for in the grocery store and stealing a car. Both are stealing, but I doubt most people will consider those to be the same tier of stealing.

How isnt it? Its a name with a proper surname, and proper forename and thousands years of entomological history behind it.

Please help masternerdguy to defend his in-lore name. First you can point to a culture in New Enden that doesnt capitalise give names

Then you can explain how the station he quoted is a worse name than his own, within the lore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomology

Not to be confused with Etymology, the study of the history of words

sorry couldn't resist

Giving a character or item a silly name is the same as a federal crime?!

So your spaceship is real too?

Comically missing the point. The point is that even for real offenses (since we are treating being OORP as an "offense") there are different tiers.

For example, in your felony you have different classes representing severity with different punishments. The reasoning is that there are different "levels of severity" in doing something wrong.

That was the point, mate.

Ok, "mate"

I see that

But I still cannot see how being called "danieldaypoous" is to grape-stealing as a station called "Slags for sale" is to car-theft

You havent actually explained the difference, you simply stated that (you believe) there is one

You haven't stated why they aren't. Common sense suggests that one action is worse because it has a broader scope than the other.

As I've stated, the difference is in how localized the effects of the action is.

You are one suggesting they are, so you kinfd of need to provide supporting evidence for your hypothesis

Considering that Station names are not permanent but character names are, and you only see that station if theres a courier contract or you go there (or you own it) and stations cannot post on forums and characters appear in local, how would a station name be broader in scope than a player name?

Station names show up on the map. You are literally putting that stupid name on the map

Besides, devs change offensive character names all the time (Caldari Citizen 3243984798327 etc), but a fly-by in sov null will reveal plenty of station names that, if they were character names, would probably be removed.

And you just proved Ramona's point.

CCP knows that char names have a wider influence, hence why they are usually changed straight away.

Please tell me how often that happens with stations, if your argument holds true.

More than char names?

Or corp names?

You are literally arguing futility.

Walk away.

Besides, devs change offensive character names all the time (Caldari Citizen 3243984798327 etc)(1), but a fly-by in sov null will reveal plenty of station names that, if they were character names, would probably be removed.(2)

They don't change OORP names, they change names that break their EULA.

The point is that character names are not permanent either.

So your spaceship is real, is it?

How is your name within the lore?

the primary purpose of my OP was not to argue lore.

And yet thats the only point you made

Curious

If you shelter and protect new players in the way this article describes, all you are doing is postponing the inevitable. Facts are, as soon as these people hit "real EVE" something will happen that makes them quit. They just aren't suitable to play this game. I don't care how well they do in other MMOs, or how successful they are in the real world, surviving in EVE takes a special kind of resilience that quite frankly most MMO gamers do not have.

And most importantly, you have to learn that it is possible to do everything right and still lose. It's amazing how these real life lessons that most people never seem to learn are also so important in this game, and I believe it speaks volumes on the quality of the universe CCP have created.

To some, money is the only thing that matters. A game is successful because it makes tons of money. But EVE is more important than that. EVE is also an artistic vision, an experiment, and the facts are it has outlasted all the so-called EVE killing competition so far, and stolen players from them in the process. This game is a success by any measure.

Station names show up on the map. You are literally putting that stupid name on the map

Well, you've certainly put yours on the map now.

This is one of the dumbest discussions ever.

Well, you've certainly put yours on the map now.

This is one of the dumbest discussions ever.

How is that the only point I made?

You said quite clearly that MIttens point of view was invalid due to his alliance's non-lore stations

I dont really see how this can be read any other way

I guess I'd never name a station that way because I don't want to set that sort of tone for my organization. But that's just me, and as I've pointed out was far removed from the original point of my OP.

And that makes you a hypocrit, and we are back to square one.

It was an enjoyable game, adversary.

And yet thats the only point you made

Curious

The thing is, we are not back to square one. Because you are still wrong.
?

I didn't say non lore stations, I just pointed out how base the station names they use are. It's one of the few peeves I do have with nullsec culture.

I guess I'd never name a station that way because I don't want to set that sort of tone for my organization. But that's just me, and as I've pointed out was far removed from the original point of my OP.

Except by no measuring stick on the face of the planet does your criticism of someone else's choice of name as silly or inappropriate within the lore not make you hypocritical.

You dont have a counter because black =/= white

And yet thats the only point you made

Curious

Seems like a very strange line of discussion in this topic.

Please reread my post and explain how my points are only lore related.

Thank you.

And as for the lore, it isn't important on a day to day basis but it does set the tone of the universe, and what exists in it. Scrapping it for something as insulting as retooling the NPE to coddle people who will just quit in a month anyway is a truly insulting notion. Normally, I'm the first to defend the nullsec culture, but maybe if you named your stations something besides "TROLOLOL XOXO THIS GUY IS A PUBBIE LOLOLOL" you might understand.

Indeed.

Think my OP in the thread was the last valid argument weighing the pros and cons of Mittens article.

We have been on this station name nonsense for like an hour now.

Maybe more, maybe less. Time is kinda skewed at the moment.

Serious question here: how is the names of station in sov null relevant to the retention of new players?

This whole topic seems to have been started to focus on Mittens assertions about new player retention/conversion to paying customer.

There are very few new players that venture to sov null to be scared away from the game by the names of the starbases there. The names that veteran players give to starbases in sov null has very little relevance to the thoughts of Mittens (it's not like he names every single starbase established in CFC space anyway).

Seems like a very strange line of discussion in this topic.

Seems pretty clear to me

Serious question here: how is the names of station in sov null relevant to the retention of new players?

Seems like a very strange line of discussion in this topic.

Your right.

Im sorry, I shall stop now.

Im sick of arguing that a rock is a rock and not a sponge anyway

It certainly isn't you.

Literally everyone from you to me to James Amril to Scipio have kicked this facile argument in the stones.

Yet MNG continues on............................................................

Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.

Actually, I'm done now too.

I really take it.more of a sign of mittani being a more effective spokesperson and csm than the last two sets combined. This is after being impeached and humiliated for.an out of turn comment that cost.him his seat on the csm itself.

There's so little transparency right now between the devs and the playerbase that people are looking at community leaders for answers instead of officials. In the real world this would be very dangerous for any ruling class but here I guess people will just unsub and quitely disappear and be forgotten.

But AWOXing is not absurd or dumb, it is a part of this game. It is the risk you take when you want to make a corp. Good corps can deal with them. Not to mention it allows for a level of espionage and black ops that most MMOs would never consider.

I wrote that in there because of the article's blatant desire to dump all the backstory to increase new player retention, which I did find distasteful, even if you aren't a roleplayer that is still part of the game's personality. But if you'll reread my OP all preceding points are unrelated, that thing is pretty much just tacked on the end.

I don't get that same interpretation from the article.

I think you are looking at it from a gamers perspective (which is fine), while Mittens was looking at it from more of a business focus, which in terms of improving CCPs terrible new player retention figures (from their own data presented at Fanfest) seems to be needed.

Mittens even offered a way to include lore if that was really needed, but I think he was more asserting that decisions about fixing the NPE should be based on what is good to retain new players, rather than what is traditional in terms of the lore. I agree with that personally, but there are many options that could be discussed too.

If you think keeping the lore is important, then what alternative ideas (other than a Jove based safe zone for new players) would you propose to fix the NPE?

But AWOXing is not absurd or dumb, it is a part of this game. It is the risk you take when you want to make a corp. Good corps can deal with them. Not to mention it allows for a level of espionage and black ops that most MMOs would never consider.

witch hunt

Well, for one thing why do they have to be Jove of all things

More seriously, I would increase new player retention by trying to funnel players into player corps and alliances as quickly as possible. Ideally, all new players should be in a corp by week 2 (aka end of trial). Player should be taught that there are good corps and bad corps and that they should be a careful shopper.

I would also put more emphasis on the dangerous outer reaches of space beyond the empires (or however you want to word it) but keep reinforcing that it is dangerous to go there alone. Reinforce the idea that these dangers can be overcome by teamwork and cooperation (which is true).

I prefer to help people by giving them the tools to help themselves, not by spoon feeding them.

It is part of the game, but it currently hurts the NPE, which hurts us all. If taking it away is what needs to be done fine. I would prefer to see NPC corps perform a useful role with NPE like it should be doing.

By forcing players to head to lowsec and nullsec (my interpretation of what you mean by more emphasis on dangerous outer space), doesn't that risk losing many new players that could otherwise also learn about the city building aspects of the game?

As for gated newbie areas.....

Not all alliances are in those places. And, after the industry revamp, I have a feeling industry in nullsec is going to improve a lot. I mean, even now they could join a renter alliance that literally never PVPs and just rats and does industry and docks up when someone is in local.

My bigger idea is that they need to be funneled into places they will make friends, and fast. NPC corp chats are toxic to new players. I was one once.

As for risk aversion, CCP can't change that because it is a mentality. For every locked down, risk averse, corp there is one that is not (at least in my experience, after all isn't that why AWOXing is even possible).

There are huge industrial and PVE riches in nullsec and lo sec and wormholes too, PVP is just a risk.

And, something nobody else is mentioning, why not teach self defense?

Just because you want to be a miner doesn't mean you can't handle yourself in a sticky situation. Even if you are just trying to avoid PVP, there are lots of defensive tips that would allow them to survive in the less safe regions. These same tips will reduce their chances of being AWOXed, and will help new players in a war dec.

Instead of coddling them, embrace the danger and show them how to defend themselves. Remember that in the military even the Cook and Radio guy knows how to use a machine gun.

See, if we forget all about our earlier scuffle, we have a lot we agree on

+1 again

The problem is, we come back to the issue of giving an inch and taking a mile.

At some point, they have to be exposed to these things. And, unfortunately, these are hard lessons that people are only going to learn when it happens (or maybe not even after it happens, some people never learn). Scrapping features because they might scare off a new player is a bad idea because where do we draw the line?

The NPE should be about informing new players of the dangers of the universe, telling them that none of them cannot be overcome by teamwork and cooperation, and showing them where they can find corps to join.

I wouldn't even be opposed to allowing large alliances (# players > 500? we can talk about that) to run periodic in-game circulars that would be sent to trial accounts and / or accounts below a certain age via in-game mail.

But above all, new players need to understand this is a team effort, and that by going it alone they are handicapping themselves. And they should understand that their actions have consequences.

But beyond that, people need to be allowed to succeed or fail on their own merits.

Ok, then to come back to the first question in my previous post:

How would this exactly work in your view?

What are the mechanics of this?

What is the NPE going to look like to achieve that?

Where are these places they'll make friends and how do you protect those places from people who only want to pretend to be friends?

While I agree with what you say about new players needing to be exposed to these thing eventually I think the issue is when is that time. New players need a chance to learn things like fitting, basic isk making, and basic mechanics before they are thrown to the wolves. Also as I mentioned before I would rather see things like awoxing say, it makes eve eve. The thing is, if it stay at the cost of new players... There is no more eve.

BTW, BNI or RvB. I can't decide.

People are deluded.

Nobody is going to play a 10 year old MMO widely known for griefing, backstabbing, and all kinds of asshattery because suddenly you'll have some anti-greifing protections.

The suggestion of WoW-ifying EVE would be mocked endlessly if anyone but the Bee-Keeper himself suggested it, but apparenly after making nullsec about as dull as possible, the goal is to do the same for the rest of the game.

Feyd's take on NPE seems particularly relevant here..

Nobody's suggesting WoW-ifying EVE. If you think that's what he's saying then your reading comprehension sucks.

And null doesn't suck because we made it suck, null sucks because we've reached an inevitable end-state. It should have been evident from the very beginning that this sort of thing could happen, regardless of what alliances or what leaders inhabit nullsec.

Remember that in the military even the Cook and Radio guy knows how to use a machine gun.

While the awox suggestion is nothing new, it would be very easy to implement and have a very positive effect for new players getting into this game. That change should happen ASAP.

I couldn't disagree more. The current leaders of nullsec have asked people to hold their noses and ally with enemies, mindlessly shoot structures, sit through node crashes and TiDi, and deal with the endless sea of blue, for some future goal that apparenly would be better then what they had before.

Well the future is here. Having fun yet?

I'm waiting for the part where you demonstrate that this isn't a natural and inevitable result of nullsec game mechanics. In other words, not entirely CCP's fault.

It's entirely your fault, and your choices, and anyone else that chose not to you ran over with your midinless blob bragging how you're going to make the game as un-fun as possible for your "enemies" because ~reasons~. Enjoy your glorius result.

Because anybody should bother being nice against a sworn enemy? Against people who have said the only reason they exist is to eradicate you?

Are you high?