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Goonfleet- We knew it would happen

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Semkhet	Posted - 2006.07.04 14:44:00 - [151] Originally by: Shimpu I love the general concept of the Goonfleet to bring 'noobs' into 0.0 and PvP as I understand it. The major issue I have with the goons is their sheer numbers causing lag and lag and even more lag. It's just not funny anymore if you can't activate modules or be able to deactivate your mwd flying in the wrong direction for 3 minutes. The gooncommanders knowing the impact of their goons on a server node are using this effectively as a weapon. It's their main weapon and the reason they win fights at all. That can't be good. I also have the feeling that the goons are instructed/supported/influenced from some unknown entity. No idea if it's a single big spender or a alliance, but... Goons have lost 26 billion isk (1141 ships) since the 26 th of June when we started the XZH campaign. They are very dedicated and have impressive logistics... but still, where's that money coming from? Goonfleet is a wonderful idea but somehow has grown into a monster with the current server performance. I'll be a happy toon again when goon finally pulls out off xzh and I can fight other enemies again. I would respect Goon's tactic if the server could handle the load they throw at it. But since the Goons are the first ones to know that before they do anything in a system they have already lagged it to death, it's a pure and simple exploit IMO. That CCP atm allows it because they don't know how to handle such problem is not a justification. Maybe we should collect funds to pay a few hundred players from third world countries hooked on the internet with 56 Kbps modems and ask them to join the Goons. Their blobs would lag from the beginning.
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.07.04 14:49:00 - [152] d2 often outnumber GF
Shimpu	Posted - 2006.07.04 14:51:00 - [153] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Shimpu I also have the feeling that the goons are instructed/supported/influenced from some unknown entity. No idea if it's a single big spender or a alliance, but... Goons have lost 26 billion isk (1141 ships) since the 26 th of June when we started the XZH campaign. They are very dedicated and have impressive logistics... but still, where's that money coming from? lol, tinfoil hat? Oooops. Posting assumptions is only allowed from anonymous alts then? Because some of us are to cool for school? 2005 called. They want their joke back. btw: Are you that guy who's nick is 'eBayTolon'? Originally by: Seleene This is what happens when you eat the red M&M's
Bitter Vet	Posted - 2006.07.04 14:56:00 - [154] hey shimpu your comments about goons somehow exploiting lag would make a lot more sense if D2 didn't outnumber goons every single engagement in which they've lost a dread
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.07.04 14:58:00 - [155] Originally by: Shimpu Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Shimpu I also have the feeling that the goons are instructed/supported/influenced from some unknown entity. No idea if it's a single big spender or a alliance, but... Goons have lost 26 billion isk (1141 ships) since the 26 th of June when we started the XZH campaign. They are very dedicated and have impressive logistics... but still, where's that money coming from? lol, tinfoil hat? Oooops. Posting assumptions is only allowed from anonymous alts then? Because some of us are to cool for school? 2005 called. They want their joke back. btw: Are you that guy who's nick is 'eBayTolon'? No. It's kiaebay. And it's roots are as well grounded as your tinfoil covered accusations.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.04 15:04:00 - [156] 26 billion isk (1141 ships) = about 23m per ship. As they will generally be flying around in fully insurable T1 crap, they are only losing 1/3 of it, which is on average 6.9m per person. Now, you tell me how easy it is to make 6.9m in 0.0 - 2 triple-BS belts will sort you out. Of course there is also T1 equipment, but from what I've heard about GF they have good logistics and provide the basic crap for free. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
Bitter Vet	Posted - 2006.07.04 15:11:00 - [157] how much does d2s killboard report that they've lost since they've lost 9 capital ships in the last week
Antaris Xenal	Posted - 2006.07.04 15:13:00 - [158] Originally by: Shimpu Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Shimpu I also have the feeling that the goons are instructed/supported/influenced from some unknown entity. No idea if it's a single big spender or a alliance, but... Goons have lost 26 billion isk (1141 ships) since the 26 th of June when we started the XZH campaign. They are very dedicated and have impressive logistics... but still, where's that money coming from? lol, tinfoil hat? Oooops. Posting assumptions is only allowed from anonymous alts then? Because some of us are to cool for school? 2005 called. They want their joke back. btw: Are you that guy who's nick is 'eBayTolon'? I'm with you guys shimpu, I hope the goons get there asses handed to them, I think soon the goons will be backing out of xz. I have flown with a few D2 guys and they were cool and didnt kill me in 0.0. Goonfleet on the other hand attacks me any chance they get, to bad I always kill them on said occasion
Shimpu	Posted - 2006.07.04 15:15:00 - [159] Originally by: Bitter Vet hey shimpu your comments about goons somehow exploiting lag would make a lot more sense if D2 didn't outnumber goons every single engagement in which they've lost a dread I'm sorry if my posting looked like I'm attempting to wash our hands in innocence. Of course we bring our fleet into the battleground, too. The difference is that we don't have to rely on lag to win a engagement. I wasn't there when the dreads went 'poof', but from what I heard they weren't able to activate their modules. It's a great victory to down so much dreads (9!) anyway. It would most likely have not happened though without the extreme lag I experienced every day at xzh. Originally by: Seleene This is what happens when you eat the red M&M's
Bitter Vet	Posted - 2006.07.04 15:20:00 - [160] if by adapted you mean "we don't deploy dreads anymore and we've stopped trying to blow up goonfleet's POSs", then I agree. also who has sovereignty over xzh again

HippoKing	Posted - 2006.07.04 15:22:00 - [161] Bitter vet: you aren't helping anything Shimpu: the goons win by sheer weight of numbers. Lag hits them just as hard as you (arguably harder, given that small ships need more active control). The only things that don't lag are the POSes.
Bitter Vet	Posted - 2006.07.04 15:25:00 - [162] sorry it just bothers me when d2 come in and post about how they dont care about the system, then lose 9 dreads defending it and put up 6 pos, then gf puts up 10 pos and d2 say 'oh goons are leaving soon' which is just silly. let them have their system and bow out gracefully instead of taking it to the forums and pretending like your winning some great victory by losing sovereignty permanently.
PirateShampoo	Posted - 2006.07.04 16:14:00 - [163] I for 1 wish the Goonies luck, its good to c a new allaince giving these so called uber pvp allainces a kicking. And no allaince in the game is made up of 100% uber pvpers, its not hard to look uber when u have 150 of ur mates behind u and 1 guy calling primary. Hopefully Goonfleet will burst a few egos on there way of galaxy domination
DarkCEO	Posted - 2006.07.04 16:18:00 - [164] Well im purley an empire dweller but reading this makes me want to join a PvP corp and have some fun!! go goons
zerobubble	Posted - 2006.07.04 16:24:00 - [165] I hate to have to post here, but as far as the lag goes, when battle began all the goons spammed local with "fofofofo" simultaniously - this ended after a warning from a GM. But their cargo holds also had bms in them. All of the T1 frigs in the POS also deployed drones within the sheild... they were not trying to attack or defend with them, just trying to create lag. All of these tactics were used to induce lag. With out these tactics there would be respect. Using numbers to fight is a valad tactic, using lag is not. If there was no lag I believe this conflict would already be over (just my opinion). when the lag is manageble, the battles are great. As far as numbers go: The fleets build, usually us first, followed by the goons and are ALWAYS in the goons favor before any fleet combat happens. Again, without the lag, these would be the best battles in my 3 years in eve.
Co'balt	Posted - 2006.07.04 16:31:00 - [166] Originally by: zerobubble All of the T1 frigs in the POS also deployed drones within the sheild...
Tachy	Posted - 2006.07.04 16:41:00 - [167] Originally by: Co'balt Originally by: zerobubble All of the T1 frigs in the POS also deployed drones within the sheild... Don't laugh. The vigil has a drone bay with a volume of 5m¦! --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Bippa	Posted - 2006.07.04 16:50:00 - [168] Edited by: Bippa on 04/07/2006 16:51:17 Originally by: zerobubble I hate to have to post here, but as far as the lag goes, when battle began all the goons spammed local with "fofofofo" simultaniously - this ended after a warning from a GM. But their cargo holds also had bms in them. All of the T1 frigs in the POS also deployed drones within the sheild... they were not trying to attack or defend with them, just trying to create lag. All of these tactics were used to induce lag. Oh here we go again. This is same lies (yes it is lies) that got the other thread locked. So stop posting lies. Imagine in 200 on 200 battles, there are cans after a fight! How can that be? And anyone who has faced the goons know they only fofo after a major battle that they win. They don't do it randomly friend.
Lesbos	Posted - 2006.07.04 17:41:00 - [169] Originally by: Bippa Edited by: Bippa on 04/07/2006 16:51:17 Originally by: zerobubble I hate to have to post here, but as far as the lag goes, when battle began all the goons spammed local with "fofofofo" simultaniously - this ended after a warning from a GM. But their cargo holds also had bms in them. All of the T1 frigs in the POS also deployed drones within the sheild... they were not trying to attack or defend with them, just trying to create lag. All of these tactics were used to induce lag. Oh here we go again. This is same lies (yes it is lies) that got the other thread locked. So stop posting lies. Imagine in 200 on 200 battles, there are cans after a fight! How can that be? And anyone who has faced the goons know they only fofo after a major battle that they win. They don't do it randomly friend. Yes, it's all lies! Lies!!! ...erm, wait Dronesploit! Cansploit! Bookmarksploit!
Ishen Villone	Posted - 2006.07.04 17:43:00 - [170] Notice that 90% of the inane flames (on both sides) come from alts. Just ignore them. Goonswarm is having a great time fighting D2 and friends and I'm sure our opponents feel the same.

Ishen Villone	Posted - 2006.07.04 17:43:00 - [171] Notice that 90% of the inane flames (on both sides) come from alts. Just ignore them. Goonswarm is having a great time fighting D2 and friends and I'm sure our opponents feel the same.
Trayk	Posted - 2006.07.04 17:53:00 - [172] Originally by: Traxio Nacho Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Chip2k3 Goonswarm are that...a swarm. They fight by numbers, and i bet 50 BoB or MC or other decent PvPers could take a 150man goonswarm fleet to pieces, just by tactics and better setups. You're probably right. But the 150 strong Goonswarm fleet is worth less than the half-dozen uber-fitted ships they manage to take down - and all of their ships, at least, can be fully insured. Your HACs, inties, and whatnot can't. How much harm are you doing them, exactly? Much though we hate RL analogies: think of the Soviet army in WWII. Stalin himself said it best: "Quantity has a quality all of its own." But when it comes down to it for morale losing 30 TI frigs in my opinion is worse than losing 1 HAC. The whole thing is economics. 30 T1Frigs @1mil per VS HAC @ 150-200 Mil...who lost? The Dead Parrot Shoppe: always hiring the intelligent/mature, ubernoob or vet. Experience we can give you; brains, we can't.
Pseudothei	Posted - 2006.07.04 18:21:00 - [173] Edited by: Pseudothei on 04/07/2006 18:21:50 Edited by: Pseudothei on 04/07/2006 18:21:30 GoonFleet exclusively fly Velators. http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/66/asfasfasfasfasf3bx7hx.jpg (That Ferox melted in seconds) Anyways, thus far I've wasted four ships on convoying and just trying to get in to XZH. D2 runs a mean gate camp for us Goons playing on eurotime. Good fights, everyone.
Mulletstation	Posted - 2006.07.04 18:33:00 - [174] I think what's most remarkable about this is that a majority of goonfleet is at least partially mentally handicapped. That we can band together and amazing is fight
Emeline Cabernet	Posted - 2006.07.04 18:33:00 - [175] Originally by: ***s Originally by:** Bippa Edited by: Bippa on 04/07/2006 16:51:17 Originally by: zerobubble I hate to have to post here, but as far as the lag goes, when battle began all the goons spammed local with "fofofofo" simultaniously - this ended after a warning from a GM. But their cargo holds also had bms in them. All of the T1 frigs in the POS also deployed drones within the sheild... they were not trying to attack or defend with them, just trying to create lag. All of these tactics were used to induce lag. Oh here we go again. This is same lies (yes it is lies) that got the other thread locked. So stop posting lies. Imagine in 200 on 200 battles, there are cans after a fight! How can that be? And anyone who has faced the goons know they only fofo after a major battle that they win. They don't do it randomly friend. Yes, it's all lies! Lies!!! ...erm, wait Dronesploit! Cansploit! Bookmarksploit! erm what?? i see d2 drones there too goons died around a gate? goons putting up cans to avoid coverts? what proof is this?
Andrea Jaruwalski	Posted - 2006.07.04 18:48:00 - [176] Originally by: Emeline Cabernet Originally by: ***s Originally by:** Bippa Edited by: Bippa on 04/07/2006 16:51:17 Originally by: zerobubble I hate to have to post here, but as far as the lag goes, when battle began all the goons spammed local with "fofofofo" simultaniously - this ended after a warning from a GM. But their cargo holds also had bms in them. All of the T1 frigs in the POS also deployed drones within the sheild... they were not trying to attack or defend with them, just trying to create lag. All of these tactics were used to induce lag. Oh here we go again. This is same lies (yes it is lies) that got the other thread locked. So stop posting lies. Imagine in 200 on 200 battles, there are cans after a fight! How can that be? And anyone who has faced the goons know they only fofo after a major battle that they win. They don't do it randomly friend. Yes, it's all lies! Lies!!! ...erm, wait Dronesploit! Cansploit! Bookmarksploit! erm what?? i see d2 drones there too goons died around a gate? goons putting up cans to avoid coverts? what proof is this? Can't believe there are people in this game that are actually this blind.
arkarsk	Posted - 2006.07.04 19:51:00 - [177] Edited by: arkarsk on 04/07/2006 19:52:10 Originally by: ***s Dronesploit! Happened once, we deployed them right after we finished warping incase your dreads were next to the shield again, in which case we would rush them. They were put back in bay a few minutes after they were released, and stayed so for hours between engagements. Show me a screenshot of this happening any other day. Originally by: *s Cansploit! Goons having a gatecamp in the middle of the picture. Cans in a circular formation around the gate. Why? Well, blame your snipers for forcing us to resort to tactics like that. We have no other truly effective counter. Originally by: *s Bookmarksploit! As i'm sure you know, logistics are an important part of any invasion. Insta's need to be distributed to all members participating in the invasion. You have found two kill mails with bookmarks. We have lost over 1000 ships. This is not a valid point. I'd honestly rather you ignore my post, as i dont wish to post in this thread any further and continue this senseless argument. Have a nice day! PS. I am not a director and thus all of my statements are personal opinions from my own personal perspective. My post is not to represent GoonSwarm in any official stature.**
Corbis Thalamar	Posted - 2006.07.04 20:18:00 - [178] Can we move past the idea that Goonfleet may or may not be using lag as an exploit? Personally I don't see evidence either way, but won't discount it either. Instead, what I find far more interesting to read about is how Goonfleet is effecting the game and using t1 frigates as a viable fighting strategy. I'd love to read more posts on this! 0.0 space being open for noobs strikes me as a far more interesting thing than whether cans did or did not get deployed into space on purpose.
zerobubble	Posted - 2006.07.04 20:54:00 - [179] My only reason for mentioning the lag stuff is the lag is the only reason dreads have died, and that to this point they have had the success they have againsts our fleets. If they do this without the lag tactics, then they become a very respected foe. Either way, this campaign so far has been great fun, and I must thank the goons for at least that.
Cefte	Posted - 2006.07.04 20:58:00 - [180] Come on kids, this was a good thread to start with. T1 frigates don't have dronebays (OK, yes, the Vigil has a dronebay. And our logistics guys don't produce vigils). I can appreciate the min-max game, having a gang of ten perfect players who can take on twice their number. That doesn't mean that having a larger gang is breaking the rules. We've been outnumbered in every defensive siege of a POS so far, though the POS guns do make defending easier, so to be called out for blobbing, and worse still to have our gang size called an exploit is just plain silly. There were gangs twice as large as this in the siege of EC (as some people should know damn well), and the server was fine. GoonSwarm reps have requested repeatedly for more resources for Prelle, seemingly to no avail. All we can do is jump in, guns blazing, and hope for the best.



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