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Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 162	Posted - 2014.10.12 06:31:00 - [871] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. No they teach them how to bot instead. Oh come on....I dislike Eve Uni as much as the next elite PvPer....but the are not some bot organization. They have a good repository of knowledge, and a lot of different campuses and activities. Is there a lot of lame hand holding? Sure. But it's still a much less toxic environment than the Goon scammers.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6331	Posted - 2014.10.12 06:37:00 - [872] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Mallak Azaria wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. No they teach them how to bot instead. Oh come on....I dislike Eve Uni as much as the next elite PvPer....but the are not some bot organization. They have a good repository of knowledge, and a lot of different campuses and activities. Is there a lot of lame hand holding? Sure. But it's still a much less toxic environment than the Goon scammers. You may not have been around at the time, but the CEO of E-Uni kicked up a stink on the forums because one of his best market instructors was banned for botting & even went so far as to defend the persons actions & teaching methods. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 20901	Posted - 2014.10.12 12:34:00 - [873] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: I managed to earn 500 mil in a month or so of mission running As a newbie, while you were still bumbling about in frigates and destroyers? Quote: and knew nothing about Goons, corporations, etc..... I would have been a prime candidate for scamming It's such a shame that you were never targeted by the Goons recruitment scam, the forums would have been better all round if you'd been driven out months ago. Quote: and that's not how the game should work. Ditto with the margin scams. That's how it does work, if you don't like it you can leave, make sure to close the door behind you Quote: Also....where is this disclaimer? The first hit i get is goonfleet.net which is a scam website. The search result may vary depending on your location, it's certainly the first result when using google.co.uk, http://www.eveinfo.net/wiki/index~17.htm The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2690	Posted - 2014.10.12 13:22:00 - [874] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Mallak Azaria wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. No they teach them how to bot instead. Oh come on....I dislike Eve Uni as much as the next elite PvPer....but the are not some bot organization. They have a good repository of knowledge, and a lot of different campuses and activities. Is there a lot of lame hand holding? Sure. But it's still a much less toxic environment than the Goon scammers. Your willful ignorance makes the west borough baptist church look reasonable. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 162	Posted - 2014.10.12 21:06:00 - [875] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: I managed to earn 500 mil in a month or so of mission running As a newbie, while you were still bumbling about in frigates and destroyers? Quote: and knew nothing about Goons, corporations, etc..... I would have been a prime candidate for scamming It's such a shame that you were never targeted by the Goons recruitment scam, the forums would have been better all round if you'd been driven out months ago. Quote: and that's not how the game should work. Ditto with the margin scams. That's how it does work, if you don't like it you can leave, make sure to close the door behind you. Both scams rely on the victim to be dumb and/or greedy. "A fool and his money are soon parted" is as true in Eve as it is in the real world. Quote: Also....where is this disclaimer? The first hit i get is goonfleet.net which is a scam website. The search result may vary depending on your location, it's certainly the first result when using google.co.uk. FYI it's here More nonsense from you, as usual. I sat in a battleship within a few weeks of playing, and ran L4s with friends. I was in a Mach before 2 months were out - and still a newbie yes. I'm sure you would have loved for your scammer friends to get me like they get other new players, luckily I was sharp enough to see through the lies and bs. I'm not planning on leaving the game, despite your best efforts to get me to. I'd rather stay in it and advocate for positive change on the forums, the kind that would end these scams and leave you miserable. The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game.
Casivek Andrard Carebear Expeditionary Force The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears 0	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:07:00 - [876] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game. The issue with this is that CCP says that this is the reality high sec is only meant as a place where people start out and others can still scam or make your ship go boom. Only difference is that you can't kill new players in predefined rookie systems, and the aggressor will lose the ship they used to attack the other player. On the note of scams it's rather simple ignore them and look things up before doing something blindly.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 10057	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:10:00 - [877] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game. No new player can afford to buy into that scam. It's as simple as that. Stop using new players as a smokescreen to hide your disgusting risk aversion. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaea Astridsson Yggdrasil Belators Dirt Nap Squad. 126	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:44:00 - [878] - Quote Seems this discussion been sidetracked. Last I checked title mentioned ganking and nothing about scamming. Only adjustment anywhere near reasonable to ask for in this case is may be a bigger hit on security status. Either way, bad security standings and kill rights are more than enough to allow retribution. Sure you'll probably not be able to exact the same amount of isk damage. But if you cannot take the loss. Don't fly it. Or do, but don't cry when it blows up. And if neither ganking nor scamming was allowed, game would be kinda dead in the water. Back when I tried running indy I got my kicks of knowing any moment all that hard work could be negated by a single well placed Antimatter charge.
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 The Conference Elite CODE. 487	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:28:00 - [879] - Quote I feel that with the semi-recent boosts to mining ship's EHP and lows on freighters that there should be a global reduction on the GCC to 5min. The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 20903	Posted - 2014.10.13 00:44:00 - [880] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: More nonsense from you, as usual. I sat in a battleship within a few weeks of playing, and ran L4s with friends. I was in a Mach before 2 months were out - and still a newbie yes. That is not the usual newbie experience and you know it; therefore my point still stands, most newbies, being newbies, don't have access to the kind of isk required to fall victim to the margin trading scam, or recruitment scams Quote: I'm sure you would have loved for your scammer friends to get me like they get other new players, luckily I was sharp enough to see through the lies and bs. See above, most newbies don't have anything worth scamming for. Quote: I'm not planning on leaving the game, despite your best efforts to get me to. I'd rather stay in it and advocate for positive change on the forums, the kind that would end these scams and leave you miserable. What you see as positive change others see as negative change. I've been caught by the margin trading scam myself, and the Phaser Inc. ponzi scheme, and you know who I blame for me getting caught by them? ME. Quote: The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game. If newbies were getting ripped off, and you want effective policing it is up to you to try and provide it, that's the joy of the sandbox. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 162	Posted - 2014.10.13 07:23:00 - [881] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game. No new player can afford to buy into that scam. It's as simple as that. Stop using new players as a smokescreen to hide your disgusting risk aversion. You do realize I've never been scammed right? I'm far too cynical and financially literate to ever get snookered by these jokers. I do feel for other players, many of them relatively new (and yes, month old players can comfortably make 25 mil an hour running SOE L4s with friends, and make 500 mil in 20 hours of mission running), who fall for these scams, lose all their stuff, and ragequit the game. I don't see any redeeming value in this garbage, and am especially concerned by the margin trading scam which uses the eve market to look credible (as opposed to isk doubling which is just an obvious scam, and should not garner much victim sympathy).
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 162	Posted - 2014.10.13 07:25:00 - [882] - Quote CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote: I feel that with the semi-recent boosts to mining ship's EHP and lows on freighters that there should be a global reduction on the GCC to 5min. Absolutely, the recent changes have made it virtually impossible to gank freighters. Even systems like Uedama are safe to autopilot through, and the only way to inject even a modicum of risk into highsec is to drastically reduce any impediments to ganking.
admiral root Red Galaxy 1650	Posted - 2014.10.13 07:35:00 - [883] - Quote Since when is autopiloting anything, anywhere supposed to be safe? No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 The Conference Elite CODE. 488	Posted - 2014.10.13 07:42:00 - [884] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote: I feel that with the semi-recent boosts to mining ship's EHP and lows on freighters that there should be a global reduction on the GCC to 5min. Absolutely, the recent changes have made it virtually impossible to gank freighters. Even systems like Uedama are safe to autopilot through, and the only way to inject even a modicum of risk into highsec is to drastically reduce any impediments to ganking. We should start a thread regarding this idea! The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 162	Posted - 2014.10.13 07:42:00 - [885] - Quote admiral root wrote: Since when is autopiloting anything, anywhere supposed to be safe? Personally I think that there should be enough negative consequences for ganking that it is safe to autopilot a 200k+ ehp empty freighter in highsec. Might it get killed once in a blue moon for lolz? Sure. Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way.
admiral root Red Galaxy 1650	Posted - 2014.10.13 08:00:00 - [886] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: admiral root wrote: Since when is autopiloting anything, anywhere supposed to be safe? Personally I think that there should be enough negative consequences for ganking that it is safe to autopilot a 200k+ ehp empty freighter in highsec. Might it get killed once in a blue moon for lolz? Sure. Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way. Then you're playing the wrong game. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Kaea Astridsson Yggdrasil Belators Dirt Nap Squad. 128	Posted - 2014.10.13 08:11:00 - [887] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way. If it is, it's because people have come together as a group to make it so. Never flown freighter but been told a webber friend get you around most often before any bumper gets you dead in the waters. Do you think a dedicated effort from a group should easily be countered by a single player?
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 162	Posted - 2014.10.13 10:14:00 - [888] - Quote Kaea Astridsson wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way. If it is, it's because people have come together as a group to make it so. Never flown freighter but been told a webber friend get you around most often before any bumper gets you dead in the waters. Do you think a dedicated effort from a group should easily be countered by a single player? Not at all - I just don't think that CONCORD should sit idly by and let Uedama degenerate into the war torn streets of Somalia. I expect the police to take real action against repeat offenders, and to attempt to protect the residents of highsec. I reject the view that Eve is some sort of dystopian society where the police are wholly incapable of punishing those who deserved to be punished, and are additionally incapable of imposing enough deterrence to bring a measure of safety and security to highsec.
admiral root Red Galaxy 1653	Posted - 2014.10.13 10:18:00 - [889] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: I expect the police to take real action against repeat offenders, and to attempt to protect the residents of highsec. As a player, this would be your role. Concord only exists to shoot you if you do certain things. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 10058	Posted - 2014.10.13 10:22:00 - [890] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: I don't see any redeeming value in this garbage, and am especially concerned by the margin trading scam which uses the eve market to look credible I thought you said you were financially literate? Half or more of the game's economy revolves around that skill. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 20903	Posted - 2014.10.13 11:19:00 - [891] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: I reject the view that Eve is some sort of dystopian society where the police are wholly incapable of punishing those who deserved to be punished, and are additionally incapable of imposing enough deterrence to bring a measure of safety and security to highsec. That's akin to arguing that black is in fact white, despite all the evidence to the contrary. You keep bleating, we'll keep laughing at your ignorance and pathetic attempts to change a formula that has worked well for the last 11 years. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 20903	Posted - 2014.10.13 11:28:00 - [892] - Quote oops double posting derp The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2693	Posted - 2014.10.13 12:09:00 - [893] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaea Astridsson wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way. If it is, it's because people have come together as a group to make it so. Never flown freighter but been told a webber friend get you around most often before any bumper gets you dead in the waters. Do you think a dedicated effort from a group should easily be countered by a single player? Not at all - I just don't think that CONCORD should sit idly by and let Uedama degenerate into the war torn streets of Somalia. I expect the police to take real action against repeat offenders, and to attempt to protect the residents of highsec. I reject the view that Eve is some sort of dystopian society where the police are wholly incapable of punishing those who deserved to be punished, and are additionally incapable of imposing enough deterrence to bring a measure of safety and security to highsec. Okay then CONCORD should kill all miners that deplete a belt, kill all mission runners that shoot one of the four empires NPCs in their missions, kill anyone that does not clean up their space trash after a mission, and kill frieghters that have not paid the proper tax for hauling those goods. They're taking real action against repeat offenders. Also you have brain problems if you reject the dystopian society idea, that's literally in the advertising material for the game. You highsec pubbies are so busy squabbling over the tiniest of things, like being aware while hauling, that there is no society. No one works together and instead lives in their own little bubble until someone comes along to invade it. Then they whinge endlessly on the forums about how they are right and this needs to change now and how no you other people with differing opinions are never right because I can't possibly ever be wrong. Contrast that with nullsec where we do work together to create some semblance of safety, yet are rewarded far less than you in highsec are when you are given safety. We even work with people we don't like coughSMAcough in order to maintain this. If anything its time for highsec to get rebalanced and put back where it belongs. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Revis Owen 40	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:20:00 - [894] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: I reject the view that Eve is some sort of dystopian society . . . Then, my friend, pick up the tools that CCP provides to all of us and pursue your view. Be the anti-villain! Stop whining for CCP to provide you a risk-free experience. Gather some friends, mark off your spot in space, and do what you need to do employing the tools available to create yourself a (relatively) risk-free area. That's what EvE is about. Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Trixie Lawless Reasonable People Of Sound Mind 81	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:57:00 - [895] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Trixie Lawless wrote: I'm really surprised this thread is still going. Veers... If I ran a massive organization like the goons, you bet I would use a scam for recruitment. The ones that fell for it would be considered too stupid to get in. Period. Alot of this game is meta. If you arent intelligent enough to apply some common sense to your play it isn't the game for you. Once again...if you autopilot all over the place in a shuttle then you are a dingaling. All over the internet ganking, scamming, and unexpected chaos is mentioned with EVE. Its not exactly a secret. If you want a game to hold your half and keep you safe while you accumulate massive amounts of currency then play WoW or one of the other many rehashed mmos that exist. You say that people leave the game because of it's harshness, and some may, but 10x that many will leave if this becomes Teletubbies in space. No harsher punishments need to incur, people need to quit being a wuss and realize the glory that is EVE. Well, that says something about your moral values. Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. Waffles (and trust me, I'm not a fan) doesn't scam new players. Being a nasty and miserable person isn't part of the "meta," it's just, well...pathetic. How dare you question my morals based off of hypothetical actions in a video game. People like you are what's wrong with gaming. You associate gameplay with reality way too much.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 20906	Posted - 2014.10.13 15:20:00 - [896] - Quote Trixie Lawless wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Trixie Lawless wrote: I'm really surprised this thread is still going. Veers... If I ran a massive organization like the goons, you bet I would use a scam for recruitment. The ones that fell for it would be considered too stupid to get in. Period. Alot of this game is meta. If you arent intelligent enough to apply some common sense to your play it isn't the game for you. Once again...if you autopilot all over the place in a shuttle then you are a dingaling. All over the internet ganking, scamming, and unexpected chaos is mentioned with EVE. Its not exactly a secret. If you want a game to hold your half and keep you safe while you accumulate massive amounts of currency then play WoW or one of the other many rehashed mmos that exist. You say that people leave the game because of it's harshness, and some may, but 10x that many will leave if this becomes Teletubbies in space. No harsher punishments need to incur, people need to quit being a wuss and realize the glory that is EVE. Well, that says something about your moral values. Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. Waffles (and trust me, I'm not a fan) doesn't scam new players. Being a nasty and miserable person isn't part of the "meta," it's just, well...pathetic. How dare you question my morals based off of hypothetical actions in a video game. People like you are what's wrong with gaming. You associate gameplay with reality way too much. Veers appears to be of the "your actions in a video game are a reflection of you in real life" school of thought, which IMHO makes him one of those people that have problems differentiating between fantasy and real life. If you tie that in with his arrogance, despite his evident ignorance, and sense of entitlement there's a while smorgasbord of words we could use to describe him, most of which appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and other medical publications. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Trixie Lawless Reasonable People Of Sound Mind 83	Posted - 2014.10.13 15:22:00 - [897] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Trixie Lawless wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Trixie Lawless wrote: I'm really surprised this thread is still going. Veers... If I ran a massive organization like the goons, you bet I would use a scam for recruitment. The ones that fell for it would be considered too stupid to get in. Period. Alot of this game is meta. If you arent intelligent enough to apply some common sense to your play it isn't the game for you. Once again...if you autopilot all over the place in a shuttle then you are a dingaling. All over the internet ganking, scamming, and unexpected chaos is mentioned with EVE. Its not exactly a secret. If you want a game to hold your half and keep you safe while you accumulate massive amounts of currency then play WoW or one of the other many rehashed mmos that exist. You say that people leave the game because of it's harshness, and some may, but 10x that many will leave if this becomes Teletubbies in space. No harsher punishments need to incur, people need to quit being a wuss and realize the glory that is EVE. Well, that says something about your moral values. Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. Waffles (and trust me, I'm not a fan) doesn't scam new players. Being a nasty and miserable person isn't part of the "meta," it's just, well...pathetic. How dare you question my morals based off of hypothetical actions in a video game. People like you are what's wrong with gaming. You associate gameplay with reality way too much. Veers appears to be of the "your actions in a video game are a reflection of you in real life" school of thought, which IMHO makes him one of those people that have problems differentiating between fantasy and real life. If you tie that in with his arrogance, despite his evident ignorance, and sense of entitlement there's a while smorgasbord of words we could use to describe him, most of which appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Couldn't we just refer to him as a lawyer?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 20906	Posted - 2014.10.13 15:23:00 - [898] - Quote Trixie Lawless wrote: Couldn't we just refer to him as a lawyer? That might be going too far I lol'd btw. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Roche Pso Deltole Research Labs 1	Posted - 2014.10.13 19:31:00 - [899] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Well, that says something about your moral values. Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. Waffles (and trust me, I'm not a fan) doesn't scam new players. Being a nasty and miserable person isn't part of the "meta," it's just, well...pathetic. How you play a game says nothing about your moral values. Ganking someone in EVE is no different to bankrupting them in monopoly or checkmating them in chess. In fact, it is not as bad as those two things as it does not put them out of the game it simply returns them to the station where they can pick up and carry on When you play other games do you always let your opponent win?
Revis Owen 40	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:24:00 - [900] - Quote Roche Pso wrote: How you play a game says nothing about your moral values. Ganking someone in EVE is no different to bankrupting them in monopoly or checkmating them in chess. The types of people who can't separate game from RL often also have trouble understanding or at least accepting as fact that others can. It literally is apart from their experience. As the saying goes: if you're at the point of having to explain it, he won't understand. Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.

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