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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
There is no current open thread on the forums with regards to this issue.
Any previous threads locked or that ran course pertaining to this subject matter are now obsolete or superceded by this one.
No answer to the questions asked previously have been provided so this topic can very much be considered still open and relevant.
No over zealous forum isd can use any legitimate rationale or discource to counter these facts without acting outwith their remit, on the instruction of CCP, or to confer outwith the rules set out by these forums.
CCP have basically green-lighted (assuming clarification) Somer Blink to commence rmt activities again almost one year after the last debacle.
Since there is currently no open thread pertaining to this issue, and given somer blink make the claim their current plex offering is CCP approved, this post is fact, not speculative.
tl:dr CCP have again enpowered Somer Blink to milk the eve playerbase for their own real life finacial gain.
Does it affect my eve? Nope
Do i care other making this post? Nope
Impartial as i am, something seems amiss.
Who hires the people who makes decisions? Crikey. Hire me instead. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8880
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bruce the Baker wrote: No answer to the questions asked previously have been provided so this topic can very much be considered still open and relevant.
Not true. They said to file a petition against Somer if you suspect foul play.
In before lock. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |

Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
142
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Im not sure what all the facts are but it is not surprising that CCP doesn't enforce their own rules. They have a history of doing it. Tippia the space lawyer will soon be here to inform you how wrong your are though. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23922
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Are they doing anything differently now compared to the variant that got smacked down a year ago? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bruce the Baker wrote: No answer to the questions asked previously have been provided so this topic can very much be considered still open and relevant.
Not true. They said to file a petition against Somer if you suspect foul play. In before lock. You seem confused as to the fact i am talking about the fact that somer will as of November start making rl money from the virtual currency that is isk |

Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1135
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Are they doing anything differently now compared to the variant that got smacked down a year ago?
Short version: No
Longer version: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23922
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Tippia wrote:Are they doing anything differently now compared to the variant that got smacked down a year ago? Short version: No Longer version: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Then report them for RMT and refer to the previous ruling. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5789
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
How does this crime against humanity affect your gameplay, OP?
Mr Epeen  There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Xinivrae
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
918
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Supposedly "Vetted and approved by CCP"
:ccp: |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yup, and at the same time other 3rd party service providers don't get to suckle on the same nectar.
Golden scorpians etc, it's a joke (albeit it's not). |
|

Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1199
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bruce the Baker wrote:Really poor decision making from CCP letting their playerbase down once again. I'm more often let down by other players causing my bottom expectations bar to go even lower. Might as well mail it to china to save some digging. |

GOB the Magician
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 00:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
too big to fail! |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
4263
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bruce the Baker wrote:Yup, and at the same time other community service providers don't get to suckle on the same nectar. Golden scorpians etc, it's a joke (albeit it's not). So this is really just a jealousy thread?
What a surprise. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3324

|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have removed a post discussing moderation.
In addition, we're going to leave this thread open so there's one thread about this supposed rumor about the issue. Please follow all the usual rules when posting. Thanks. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
347
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
I fail to see any difference between voluntarily paying an amount of isk over the market value of an item for that item and just giving isk. I'm sure RMTers everywhere would be happy to buy trit for a billion each if that makes it okay. Just perform an out of game service for them that gets them money and they'll give you a voucher to contract them trit for a billion, np. |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:I have removed a post discussing moderation.
In addition, we're going to leave this thread open so there's one thread about this supposed rumor about the issue. Please follow all the usual rules when posting. Thanks. ISD you can't make use of the word "rumour" when the somer blink website currently promotes they have CCP "approval". |

Torneach Structor
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bruce the Baker wrote: You seem confused as to the fact i am talking about the fact that somer will as of November start making rl money from the virtual currency that is isk
Explanation needed.
Links too. |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Torneach Structor wrote:Bruce the Baker wrote: You seem confused as to the fact i am talking about the fact that somer will as of November start making rl money from the virtual currency that is isk
Explanation needed. Links too. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2dtgvs/ccp_allows_somer_blink_to_rmt_at_19_dollars_per_1/ |

Xinivrae
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
919
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Torneach Structor wrote:Bruce the Baker wrote: You seem confused as to the fact i am talking about the fact that somer will as of November start making rl money from the virtual currency that is isk
Explanation needed. Links too. Here's a thing. Right now it looks like it's just somer claiming that this is all CCP approved. Apparently, The CSM is aware of it and talking to CCP about it. |

Torneach Structor
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thanks. |
|

Lothras Andastar
Associated North American Lovers of Dolphins
74
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:I have removed a post discussing moderation.
In addition, we're going to leave this thread open so there's one thread about this supposed rumor about the issue. Please follow all the usual rules when posting. Thanks. Rumour?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk Because the Legacy Code has too much Psssssssssssssssh, nothing will ever get fixed until CCP stop wasting money on failed sparkle MMOs and instead rewrite the entire backend of EvE from scratch. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11090
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Tippia wrote:Are they doing anything differently now compared to the variant that got smacked down a year ago? Short version: No Longer version: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Then report them for RMT and refer to the previous ruling. I petitioned the original scheme last October and the reply I got was, to paraphrase, that SOMER has not violated the EULA in any way, to their knowledge. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Lothras Andastar
Associated North American Lovers of Dolphins
74
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 01:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Simple solution is to get someone else to do it and see how long it takes for them to get banned. I should start a pool. I call dibs on 2 days. Because the Legacy Code has too much Psssssssssssssssh, nothing will ever get fixed until CCP stop wasting money on failed sparkle MMOs and instead rewrite the entire backend of EvE from scratch. |

Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xinivrae wrote:Torneach Structor wrote:Bruce the Baker wrote: You seem confused as to the fact i am talking about the fact that somer will as of November start making rl money from the virtual currency that is isk
Explanation needed. Links too. Here's a thing.Right now it looks like it's just somer claiming that this is all CCP approved. Apparently, The CSM is aware of it and talking to CCP about it.
So tell me, how is this any different then a website like, lets say TM.com, paying their writers in ISK, while the owner of said website makes real money off it? Thats RMT in its purest form, yet no complaints about that. |

GOB the Magician
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Xinivrae wrote:Torneach Structor wrote:Bruce the Baker wrote: You seem confused as to the fact i am talking about the fact that somer will as of November start making rl money from the virtual currency that is isk
Explanation needed. Links too. Here's a thing.Right now it looks like it's just somer claiming that this is all CCP approved. Apparently, The CSM is aware of it and talking to CCP about it. So tell me, how is this any different then a website like, lets say TM.com, paying their writers in ISK, while the owner of said website makes real money off it? Thats RMT in its purest form, yet no complaints about that.
It's completely different. If you put as much effort into reading what you quoted instead of creating an alt just to post in this thread, you'd see that.
Then again, never miss out on a grrrrr gooons opportunity :)
|

Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
881
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
I feel sorry for the other third party entities who actually give back to the community that don't receive the same *perceived* favouritism from CCP as Somer Blink do. Concord Approved Trader |

Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
GOB the Magician wrote:Ohkewl wrote:Xinivrae wrote:Torneach Structor wrote:Bruce the Baker wrote: You seem confused as to the fact i am talking about the fact that somer will as of November start making rl money from the virtual currency that is isk
Explanation needed. Links too. Here's a thing.Right now it looks like it's just somer claiming that this is all CCP approved. Apparently, The CSM is aware of it and talking to CCP about it. So tell me, how is this any different then a website like, lets say TM.com, paying their writers in ISK, while the owner of said website makes real money off it? Thats RMT in its purest form, yet no complaints about that. It's completely different. If you put as much effort into reading what you quoted instead of creating an alt just to post in this thread, you'd see that. Then again, never miss out on a grrrrr gooons opportunity :)
thanks for the explanation, oh wait..... its a bit hard ofc when its the same thing, lets start some namecalling, that always works |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11090
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Thats RMT in its purest form, yet no complaints about that. Clearly you've never been to /r/EVE.
And no, it's not RMT. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11090
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I feel sorry for the other third party entities who actually give back to the community that don't receive the same *perceived* favouritism from CCP as Somer Blink do. You mean the same actual favoritism?
Let's not forget who was gifted with rare ships on more than one occasion. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
881
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I feel sorry for the other third party entities who actually give back to the community that don't receive the same *perceived* favouritism from CCP as Somer Blink do. You mean the same actual favoritism? Let's not forget who was gifted with rare ships on more than one occasion. I've not forgotten. The fact that game makers "gift" players free **** in the first place while others, err get nothing. Totally legit, no sarcasm. Concord Approved Trader |
|

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1087
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
I had to read the Reddit post a couple of times before I understood how the scheme worked. Pretty clever, Somer...  eve is dying |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
the crux under the current business model is that ccp are empowering an external entity to prosper legally enabling actual in game currency conversion to real life currency while telling the rest of the eve community that this is against the eula while allowing them to do so? |

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1087
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bruce the Baker wrote:the crux being under the current business model ccp are empowering an external entity to prosper legally enabling actual in game currency conversion to real life currency while telling the rest of the community that is against the eula
As always, the devil is in the details. This is not cut-and-dried RMT. (Give me $20, I trade you 1b isk in-game). It is indirect and obfuscated. Is there anything stopping others from using this same scheme? Amazon sells plexes. All they need to do is implement a buy-back program, and they'd be doing the same thing as Somer. eve is dying |

X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
349
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
What it's going to come down to is whether you or I could set up the exact same scheme and do it too. If so then prepare for RMT to become commonplace. If not then CCP need to enforce it across the board. |

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1087
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:What it's going to come down to is whether you or I could set up the exact same scheme and do it too. If so then prepare for RMT to become commonplace. If not then CCP need to enforce it across the board. Actually, this would be extremely interesting. Probably not feasible for many would-be isk farmers to incur the overhead necessary for something like this. But just for kicks, imagine a 3rd party website dedicated to showing you which 3rd party will buy back your PLEX for the most ISK.
It'd be like Jita station trading IRL. isk-ception.

EDIT:
If there were enough people doing this, the competition between 3rd parties would heat up and the margins would get whittled down pretty quickly.  eve is dying |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:What it's going to come down to is whether you or I could set up the exact same scheme and do it too. If so then prepare for RMT to become commonplace. If not then CCP need to enforce it across the board. If somer have been approved to do it by CCP then i can see no reason why they would object to the rest of the community operating under the same provisos or considerations unless they weren't impartial to such matters i guess. |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Things never change. CCP seem to continue to make bad decsions that margionalise the community and benefit the few. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11093
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 02:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I've not forgotten. The fact that game makers "gift" players free **** in the first place while others, err get nothing. Totally legit, no sarcasm. It's not "free ****" if it has significant in-game value. That's why it was favoritism. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
884
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 03:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I've not forgotten. The fact that game makers "gift" players free **** in the first place while others, err get nothing. Totally legit, no sarcasm. It's not "free ****" if it has significant in-game value. That's why it was favoritism. I concur. Then again i've never been privvy to free stuff from game developers nor favouritism.
Eve devs informing an eve player he can milk other eve subscribed players for real life cash as i understand the agreed blink model :sigh:
Blink can rmt but others cant? Concord Approved Trader |

Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
644
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 03:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
GOB the Magician wrote:Ohkewl wrote:Xinivrae wrote:Torneach Structor wrote:Bruce the Baker wrote: You seem confused as to the fact i am talking about the fact that somer will as of November start making rl money from the virtual currency that is isk
Explanation needed. Links too. Here's a thing.Right now it looks like it's just somer claiming that this is all CCP approved. Apparently, The CSM is aware of it and talking to CCP about it. So tell me, how is this any different then a website like, lets say TM.com, paying their writers in ISK, while the owner of said website makes real money off it? Thats RMT in its purest form, yet no complaints about that. It's completely different. If you put as much effort into reading what you quoted instead of creating an alt just to post in this thread, you'd see that. Then again, never miss out on a grrrrr gooons opportunity :)
Ad revenue generated by visitors to tm website with no relation to CCP or eve online. Players write articles about the game they play.
Do I win something? |
|

DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
830
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 03:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Wait so someone buys a plex, then sells it to somer and he gives them more for it... not really sure hows that RMT, just like if i bought a plex and set the price of 1b and some sap bought it off the market.. i think i'm confused. but meh.
If you think it violates the EULA, petition it. CCP are the gods of eve, if they say its fine then well its fine In a room full of dumb blondes, EvE is the smart red head on the other side of the room.-á Lots of men like dumb blondes, and not everyone will like the smart red head, but she doesn;t need to change to be a dumb blonde.-á She is perfect how she is.-á Thats EvE vs other mmo's.-á You either like the red head, or you don't. |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 03:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Wait so someone buys a plex, then sells it to somer and he gives them more for it... not really sure hows that RMT, just like if i bought a plex and set the price of 1b and some sap bought it off the market.. i think i'm confused. but meh.
If you think it violates the EULA, petition it. CCP are the gods of eve, if they say its fine then well its fine You talk of in game eve mechanics not considering the real life consequence being real life money moving from one eve players account to another.
Playing this game in a certain manner could make others real money (it always could but always against the eula)(now ccp have potentially rubber stamped back door rmt) |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2093
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 03:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Wait so someone buys a plex, then sells it to somer and he gives them more for it... not really sure hows that RMT, just like if i bought a plex and set the price of 1b and some sap bought it off the market.. i think i'm confused. but meh.
If you think it violates the EULA, petition it. CCP are the gods of eve, if they say its fine then well its fine The trick is that you have to buy a PLEX from the SOMER affiliate to get the extra isk. So they're making money from the referral and paying you more isk for buying through them.
I can't see CCP letting this one go, but then again the only thing I find consistent about how CCP enforces it's rules is that it's always consistently confusing. |

Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
6360
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 03:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:As always, the devil is in the details. This is not cut-and-dried RMT. (Give me $20, I trade you 1b isk in-game). It is indirect and obfuscated. Is there anything stopping others from using this same scheme? Amazon sells plexes. All they need to do is implement a buy-back program, and they'd be doing the same thing as Somer. Carm, I think it's pretty cut and dried.
Quote:19.4 Dollars per 1 Billion ISK
I don't know how much more of a blatant EULA violation we can get here..
GOB the Magician wrote:too big to fail! This is exactly it.
CCP's policy on RMT is business driven (essentially like all EULA policies). If Somer's visibility is bringing cash to CCP's table, this would be a reason why an exception is made.
There are "haves" and "have-nots" in EVE, just like with anything else. The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) "So.. youre saying you cant create content.... because other people are out... creating content?" --United Arab Emirates |

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3413
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 04:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP's stated policy is that anyone involved in RMT selling will be permabanned and anyone involved in RMT buying will be temp banned and have the transactions reversed.
Time to invoke this. No ifs, no buts, buying PLEX for over market rates subject to an out-of-game purchase is RMT, every bit as much as it would be RMT if I said 'give me 200 USD IRL and I'll buy your Tritanium for 10b ISK'. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 04:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
After the dust and vampire write offs finances have taken a hit.
The onus is on the books to be balanced.
I'm impartial to somer blink under normal circumstances but I do believe alot is potentially wrong here with the proposed new offerings.
Unless CCP can clarify why Somer Blink are unique with their business model then I assume there will be no eula binding particulars which prevent every other tom, **** and harry doing indirect rmt without breaking any rules? |

GreenSeed
1113
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 04:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
if its approved, then its approved, there's nothing to discuss. and nothing to get upset about.
this same ******** discussion happened about 6 years ago with the TS servers and hosting for ISK. now days no one cares about it.
move on. |

X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
351
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 04:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:if its approved, then its approved, there's nothing to discuss. and nothing to get upset about.
this same ******** discussion happened about 6 years ago with the TS servers and hosting for ISK. now days no one cares about it.
move on. If it's approved then it's universally approved and I'll be making an affiliate account. |

Doctor Who-Dat
Stuff Direct Holdings Inc
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:GreenSeed wrote:if its approved, then its approved, there's nothing to discuss. and nothing to get upset about.
this same ******** discussion happened about 6 years ago with the TS servers and hosting for ISK. now days no one cares about it.
move on. If it's approved then it's universally approved and I'll be making an affiliate account.
Ditto on this. I think the thinking is that everyone in eve every day chooses to buy/sell items independently of the current market price based on non-market factors.
- Corp Chat: Hey pal, not using my orca any more - you want to buy it as is, 75% jita?
- Contract: WTB 2 Plex @ 1.6b (1,600,000m)
|

GreenSeed
1113
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:04:00 -
[50] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:GreenSeed wrote:if its approved, then its approved, there's nothing to discuss. and nothing to get upset about.
this same ******** discussion happened about 6 years ago with the TS servers and hosting for ISK. now days no one cares about it.
move on. If it's approved then it's universally approved and I'll be making an affiliate account. sure, go ahead. just like the 8693845 people who rented vent/TS servers to subrent on eve and two months later 2 providers remained. and now i think there's only one.
welcome to capitalism |
|

Bruce the Baker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
Doctor Who-Dat wrote:X ATM092 wrote:GreenSeed wrote:if its approved, then its approved, there's nothing to discuss. and nothing to get upset about.
this same ******** discussion happened about 6 years ago with the TS servers and hosting for ISK. now days no one cares about it.
move on. If it's approved then it's universally approved and I'll be making an affiliate account. Ditto on this. I think the thinking is that everyone in eve every day chooses to buy/sell items independently of the current market price based on non-market factors.
- Corp Chat: Hey pal, not using my orca any more - you want to buy it as is, 75% jita?
- Contract: WTB 2 Plex @ 1.6b (1,600,000m)
You seem naive and oblivious to the eula breaking part of this where somebodies bank account outwith CCPs increases during this process.
|

Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
224
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
really they are only going to profit from people with mad gambling addictions.. who think it is a awesome idea to buy plex to play blink with..
Because when you give the plex to Somerblink, you are receiving Blink credit not actual isk |

Qalix
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
303
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:What it's going to come down to is whether you or I could set up the exact same scheme and do it too. If so then prepare for RMT to become commonplace. If not then CCP need to enforce it across the board. It's all about squeezing out the last of the $$$ before they turn off the lights. Assuming for a moment that CCP performed a review of this "process" at some point, the underlying conceit could not have escaped their notice.
It's in their interest to sell as many PLEX as possible, whatever the methodology. Who can blame them for succumbing to temptation? They're only human. |

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1087
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:19:00 -
[54] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:As always, the devil is in the details. This is not cut-and-dried RMT. (Give me $20, I trade you 1b isk in-game). It is indirect and obfuscated. Is there anything stopping others from using this same scheme? Amazon sells plexes. All they need to do is implement a buy-back program, and they'd be doing the same thing as Somer. Carm, I think it's pretty cut and dried. Quote:19.4 Dollars per 1 Billion ISK I don't know how much more of a blatant EULA violation we can get here.. GOB the Magician wrote:too big to fail! This is exactly it. CCP's policy on RMT is business driven (essentially like all EULA policies). If Somer's visibility is bringing cash to CCP's table, this would be a reason why an exception is made. There are "haves" and "have-nots" in EVE, just like with anything else.
Sib, I think the anti-RMT crusaders are being a bit sensationalistic by throwing out exchange rates like $19 per 1B. I'll admit I'm playing devil's advocate here. I don't personally know enough about the issue to take a stance on it. I'm certainly not qualified to argue the effect RMT has on the game on a macro scale.
However, I do personally see a difference between earning affiliate dollars by incentivizing your visitors to buy products using your referral links and selling 1b ISK on eBay for $20. eve is dying |

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
137
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
I can't really think of a reason how this could have gone so wrong again, after the professional management of the situation last time. I mean CCP Dolan made an official thread HALF A YEAR after the incident and silence from CCP, with the promise that the feedback on this thread would be used to form a policy about how CCP handles their relationship with third-party sites. Surely this policy exists by now after HALF A YEAR of feedback collection and processing?! Doesn't it? the Code ALWAYS wins |

Doctor Who-Dat
Stuff Direct Holdings Inc
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
Bruce the Baker wrote:Doctor Who-Dat wrote:X ATM092 wrote:GreenSeed wrote:if its approved, then its approved, there's nothing to discuss. and nothing to get upset about.
this same ******** discussion happened about 6 years ago with the TS servers and hosting for ISK. now days no one cares about it.
move on. If it's approved then it's universally approved and I'll be making an affiliate account. Ditto on this. I think the thinking is that everyone in eve every day chooses to buy/sell items independently of the current market price based on non-market factors.
- Corp Chat: Hey pal, not using my orca any more - you want to buy it as is, 75% jita?
- Contract: WTB 2 Plex @ 1.6b (1,600,000m)
You seem naive and oblivious to the eula breaking part of this where somebodies bank account outwith CCPs increases during this process.
So in game activity enriches someone who is not CCP out of game and you think this is new? Please, tell me more of how game streams with ads or articles written for isk don't meet your stringent "rmt" criteria.
To say someone who has a differing opinion than you is naive or oblivious is pretty trollish in its own right.
If I remember correctly from the FF econ panel, people continued to buy plex at pretty normal pace, which was after the "cut-off" date for Blink (or anyone elses) GTC/Plex purchase bonus, showing the influx of plex was independent of any bonus from anyone. To imply that the flow of plex was dependent on this at all is what's naive.
|

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3414
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:X ATM092 wrote:GreenSeed wrote:if its approved, then its approved, there's nothing to discuss. and nothing to get upset about.
this same ******** discussion happened about 6 years ago with the TS servers and hosting for ISK. now days no one cares about it.
move on. If it's approved then it's universally approved and I'll be making an affiliate account. sure, go ahead. just like the 8693845 people who rented vent/TS servers to subrent on eve and two months later 2 providers remained. and now i think there's only one. welcome to capitalism
X ATM is pretty well known as a multi-trillionaire market actor in EVE.
If this is universally approved, he could well make USD 50k (or much more, if he's worth many trillions, not just a couple) offering the same or similar RMT deals as Somer here.
The TS servers offered a way to dodge prohibitions against RMT ISK buying. The prohibitions against RMT selling are much more significant and much more important, as while RMT buyers are cheats and deserve derision, RMT sellers often do much more disruptive things, like credit card fraud, account hacking, and widespread botting. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |

Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
634
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:33:00 -
[58] - Quote
What's this thread have to do with nerfing sov?
. They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake. |

Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
6361
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Sib, I think the anti-RMT crusaders are being a bit sensationalistic by throwing out exchange rates like $19 per 1B. I'll admit I'm playing devil's advocate here. I don't personally know enough about the issue to take a stance on it. I'm certainly not qualified to argue the effect RMT has on the game on a macro scale.
However, I do personally see a difference between earning affiliate dollars by incentivizing your visitors to buy products using your referral links and selling 1b ISK on eBay for $20. Hi Carm,
The math is included in the Reddit link and the poster mentions that their estimate is conservative ($0.875 per PLEX referral). Do you think this is an exaggerated amount?
You're saying you "see a difference", but can you tell me what the difference is exactly? Somer is paying 45m ISK and he gets $0.875 as a result. Scale that to 1b ISK and he's getting $19.
What exactly is the difference between Somer's RMT, and the RMT some sap who gets banned is doing?
I see no fundamental difference, except that Somer's volume may be considered a nice windfall for CCP's PLEX sales. The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) "So.. youre saying you cant create content.... because other people are out... creating content?" --United Arab Emirates |

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4239
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 05:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
Don't worry guys, I have inside info that this will be fixed next update. |
|

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1090
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 06:08:00 -
[61] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Sib, I think the anti-RMT crusaders are being a bit sensationalistic by throwing out exchange rates like $19 per 1B. I'll admit I'm playing devil's advocate here. I don't personally know enough about the issue to take a stance on it. I'm certainly not qualified to argue the effect RMT has on the game on a macro scale.
However, I do personally see a difference between earning affiliate dollars by incentivizing your visitors to buy products using your referral links and selling 1b ISK on eBay for $20. Hi Carm, The math is included in the Reddit link and the poster mentions that their estimate is conservative ($0.875 per PLEX referral). Do you think this is an exaggerated amount? You're saying you "see a difference", but can you tell me what the difference is exactly? Somer is paying 45m ISK and he gets $0.875 as a result. Scale that to 1b ISK and he's getting $19. What exactly is the difference between Somer's RMT, and the RMT some sap who gets banned is doing? I see no fundamental difference, except that Somer's volume may be considered a nice windfall for CCP's PLEX sales.
The difference is that one way you sell ISK for RM. The other way you use ISK to get RM. It may seem like a petty/trivial distinction but it woudn't be the first time the "how" matters just as much if not more than the end result.
EDIT:
To be more clear (or maybe just more verbose). Somer is earning money like many other for-profit websites. Ads and/or affiliate/referral links. That is legitimately earned RM. How they incentivize people to click those links is a separate matter (or at least I think that's a reasonable way to look at it) eve is dying |

Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
6364
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 06:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:The difference is that one way you sell ISK for RM. The other way you use ISK to get RM. It may seem like a petty/trivial distinction but it woudn't be the first time the "how" matters just as much if not more than the end result.
EDIT:
To be more clear (or maybe just more verbose). Somer is earning money like many other for-profit websites. Ads and/or affiliate/referral links. That is legitimately earned RM. How they incentivize people to click those links is a separate matter (or at least I think that's a reasonable way to look at it) So I can incentivize someone to PayPal me $19 by sending them 1b ISK in game?
With my example, CCP will have lost** the exact same amount of money, and the exact same amount of ISK will have changed hands.
The difference would be the amount of money CCP would get to pocket.. about 17 PLEX worth (780m divided by 45m).
Should Jeff Bezos start incentivizing people with ISK to buy PLEX from Amazon?
Is what you're saying is that it's OK for referral partners to RMT?
**read: money from enduser that would normally go into CCP's pocket snatched by someone else The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) "So.. youre saying you cant create content.... because other people are out... creating content?" --United Arab Emirates |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2102
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 06:32:00 -
[63] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote: The difference is that one way you sell ISK for RM. The other way you use ISK to get RM. It may seem like a petty/trivial distinction but it woudn't be the first time the "how" matters just as much if not more than the end result.
EDIT:
To be more clear (or maybe just more verbose). Somer is earning money like many other for-profit websites. Ads and/or affiliate/referral links. That is legitimately earned RM. How they incentivize people to click those links is a separate matter (or at least I think that's a reasonable way to look at it)
You don't think incentivizing real money referral links with isk is RMT? |

Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
6364
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 06:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
I think what Carm is saying is:
When somebody pays ISK and gets RL money in return, this is RL money being taken away from CCP (since it would otherwise be used to purchase PLEX
When Somer pays ISK and gets RL money in return, this RL money is a sanctioned way to earn a percentage of a PLEX sale. In effect, the alleged RMTer (Somer, in this case) has "rendered unto Caesar" in the form of a referral contract
The small (45m or $0.875.. whatever you want to call it) RMT loss is insignificant to CCP, considering that they make a full PLEX sale in return.
That's my understanding anyway.. The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) "So.. youre saying you cant create content.... because other people are out... creating content?" --United Arab Emirates |

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1091
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:00:00 -
[65] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:So I can incentivize someone to PayPal me $19 by sending them 1b ISK in game? That would be against the EULA. Setting up affiliate links and then incentivizing someone to click on that link by sending them ISK may be a different story. Apparently, CCP seems to think it's ok. (Of course, it will be interesting to see where things stand after the dust settles.)
Sibyyl wrote:I think what Carm is saying is:
When somebody pays ISK and gets RL money in return, this is RL money being taken away from CCP (since it would otherwise be used to purchase PLEX
When Somer pays ISK and gets RL money in return, this RL money is a sanctioned way to earn a percentage of a PLEX sale. In effect, the alleged RMTer (Somer, in this case) has "rendered unto Caesar" in the form of a referral contract That's certainly more than I meant to imply, but your reasoning sounds good to me.
I think people on these forums see people using ISK in an indirect way to earn RM and declare it RMT. I've always been of the mindset that how you get from point A to point B is also important. Many of us are engaged in the process of making real money IRL. I'm sure that if I earned my RL income from an EVE site there'd be a million and one ways to make accusations of RMT since ISK is such an integral part of EVE. Again, a lot of this is just playing devils advocate. Sorry if I'm giving anyone a headache. eve is dying |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11094
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Apparently, CCP seems to think it's ok. Apparently CCP needs their heads examined because this **** is giving them a poor reputation. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20182
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:11:00 -
[67] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Apparently, CCP seems to think it's ok. Apparently CCP needs their heads examined because this **** is giving them a poor reputation. Giving? EA and Blizzard have a better reputation at this point in time.
Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine and into the brain, where they ferment. They then migrate to your keyboard via your fingers. That's where shiptoasts come from.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |

Lair Osen
99
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ok, so Somer wants to provide a service to it's loyal customers, so it implements a PLEX buying service. Now for this service to be good for the customers/useful it would have to offer more ISK to the person than they can get from selling it. Currently the Jita PLEX price is at 797 million and has been steadily rising. There are many PLEX sell orders in Jita atm over 830m. Given this it makes sense for a very small 4% price increase to ensure that Somer is not cheating their customers out of the ISK they could have gotten by selling a week or so later.
Also, with RMT you give away ISK and so your ISK goes down. Somer are trading ISK for PLEX. the value of PLEX is rising and will soon be at the 830m mark, at which point Somer can sell it and they won't have lost any ISK at all. This seems more like futures gambling than RMT to me. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2102
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
I'm not sure I understand how you can argue that this isn't RMT.
It's basically: I'll give you isk if you use this link that gives me money. |

Eadwig ofHelmsby
Asteroid Collection and Excavation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Somer is not just another legal out of game PLEX trader. He gives a **** about ingame mechanics. He skips the New Eden market. Because of that CCP should kick his ***.
Quote:
- No moving PLEX in shuttles and potentially getting ganked
- No need to waste a character slot on a Jita alt
- No market or trade skills needed to reduce taxes and fees
- No waiting for your PLEX to sell-- get ISK fast so you can play Eve
(http://cogdev.net/blink/docs/11/38)
|
|

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3416
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lair Osen wrote:Ok, so Somer wants to provide a service to it's loyal customers, so it implements a PLEX buying service. Now for this service to be good for the customers/useful it would have to offer more ISK to the person than they can get from selling it. Currently the Jita PLEX price is at 797 million and has been steadily rising. There are many PLEX sell orders in Jita atm over 830m. Given this it makes sense for a very small 4% price increase to ensure that Somer is not cheating their customers out of the ISK they could have gotten by selling a week or so later.
Also, with RMT you give away ISK and so your ISK goes down. Somer are trading ISK for PLEX. the value of PLEX is rising and will soon be at the 830m mark, at which point Somer can sell it and they won't have lost any ISK at all. This seems more like futures gambling than RMT to me.
Futures gambling would be posting market orders saying 'Buying PLEX from everyone for 830m/unit'. Ill advised (IMO) but perfectly legal. Or alternately a forum post saying 'Buying PLEX via private contact, 830m/unit, contract them to me, will decline the contracts when I run out of ISK'.
It's very different when you say 'Buying PLEX for 830m, but only if you spend RL money with me'.
If I put up an Ebay auction saying 'Buy this piece of toast for 200 USD, and if you have an EVE Online account, I'll buy a piece of Tritanium from you for 10 billion ISK', CCP would *rightly* permaban me, and seize the 10b from the buyer who would get a temporary ban. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
I'm at the point with Eve that I honestly couldn't give a ****.
|

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3392
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:36:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Apparently, CCP seems to think it's ok. Apparently CCP needs their heads examined because this **** is giving them a poor reputation. Giving? EA and Blizzard have a better reputation at this point in time.
Guess CCP is so desperate for cash, given the falling subs, they are willing to make deals with the devil, if it looks like it will increase the cash into CCP, regardless of the optics. If CCP thinks this will somehow increase plex sales, then I expect them to keep their mouths shut about this, for as long as they can, before the furor gets too great.
"RMT is bad, unless you are actually increasing CCP revenues at the same time." |

Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
579
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
If CCP is going to legitimize this style of RMT, why not cut out the middleman?
CCP could start their own plex referral program, and even build the isk kickback right into it. Give interested parties a referral link where they can set an isk bonus amount to be drawn from their character that will be paid out to buyers. CCP gets most of the money(more, since they cut out a middleman), the affiliate gets their kickback, and the buyer gets their bonus isk without fear of scams.
Or just keep RMT illegal and stop rewarding those trying to find loopholes. |
|

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
12626
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.
/c
|
|

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20183
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
Chribba wrote:No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.
/c Something is rotten in with the state of Denmark. Eve.
Even Chribba is jaded..... Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine and into the brain, where they ferment. They then migrate to your keyboard via your fingers. That's where shiptoasts come from.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
2054
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 07:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
So, they're essentially doing the same thing they did last time. To clarify, here is the specific racket this time around:
1) Buy plex through somer affiliate, off which somer earns $$. 2) "give" plex in-game back to somer for additional isk over market value. You gain additional isk.
In greater detail: A) Player starts with $$. B) Player buys plex via somer affiliate with $$. C) Player now has plex. D) Player gives plex to somer in exchange for extra isk. E) Player now has extra isk over what he would have gotten via plex sale to market. Somer now has $$.
So... somer earns $$, customers get extra isk. That is, by definition, RMT. Furthermore, this is also direct favoritism as CCP is only allowing somer blink to do this.....again.
CCP, if your going to allow this practice, you should allow it for everyone. I, for one, look forward to purchasing from the Goon/PL/NPC_Sh*tlord RMT shoppe.
Anything less is BLATANT favoritism. |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan
430
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:11:00 -
[78] - Quote
wat is summer blinck?
i quit blincking ages agoe becos i wuz doin it wile drivign
everi blinck increases yore risc of crashin "Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal |

Lair Osen
100
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:18:00 -
[79] - Quote
Honestly, the problem here is NOT the apparent RMT at all, but the fact that Somer provide a service only to people that have bought PLEX through them. It would not matter if the service was terrible and caused people lose ISK, there would still be complaints.
Any service in this game has an inherent cost, so any service that Blink provides to it's customers can be calculated and converted into RMT figures.
Thus the only way to solve this issue is for CCP to either stop affiliate referrers from providing any services to anyone, or just simply stop them from discriminating their service provision based on whether the person has used their referral.
The Customer Loyalty Program is the true issue here, the RMT complaints are an irrelevant sidetrack. |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4207
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:19:00 -
[80] - Quote
Posting in another SOMER hate thread that dismisses all the authorised PLEX dealers as RMT'ers and just picks on the one they lost too much of their isk playing. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
|

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20184
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
Billy McCandless wrote:wat is summer blinck?
i quit blincking ages agoe becos i wuz doin it wile drivign
everi blinck increases yore risc of crashin This is how I imagine Billy's driving.
Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine and into the brain, where they ferment. They then migrate to your keyboard via your fingers. That's where shiptoasts come from.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2102
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:22:00 -
[82] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Posting in another SOMER hate thread that dismisses all the authorised PLEX dealers as RMT'ers and just picks on the one they lost too much of their isk playing. You did a great job of reading absolutely none of the thread and then making a broad, incorrect generalization about it. |

Memrox
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:22:00 -
[83] - Quote
Good ole' Markee Dragon and Somer at it again! CCP's favorite RMT couple! |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4207
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Posting in another SOMER hate thread that dismisses all the authorised PLEX dealers as RMT'ers and just picks on the one they lost too much of their isk playing. You did a great job of reading absolutely none of the thread and then making a broad, incorrect generalization about it.
Except that I did read it, and made a correct assessment of the general tone of the thread. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4241
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:37:00 -
[85] - Quote
Chribba wrote:No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.
/c My face after reading quoted text. |

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
142
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
How about this guys:
EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
That just about sums it up for me.
TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2103
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:43:00 -
[87] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Posting in another SOMER hate thread that dismisses all the authorised PLEX dealers as RMT'ers and just picks on the one they lost too much of their isk playing. You did a great job of reading absolutely none of the thread and then making a broad, incorrect generalization about it. Except that I did read it, and made a correct assessment of the general tone of the thread. "dismisses all the authorized PLEX dealers as RMT'ers"
That's what you got from reading this thread? |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:49:00 -
[88] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Posting in another SOMER hate thread that dismisses all the authorised PLEX dealers as RMT'ers and just picks on the one they lost too much of their isk playing. You did a great job of reading absolutely none of the thread and then making a broad, incorrect generalization about it. Except that I did read it, and made a correct assessment of the general tone of the thread. "dismisses all the authorized PLEX dealers as RMT'ers" That's what you got from reading this thread?
No, what I got from this thread is that Somer Blink is bad, but we can forget about all the other authorised plex dealers because we didn't lose our money gambling on their websites and aren't butthurt about them.
Lrn2read, I shouldn't have to explain what I said, unless you're still learning basic English, in which case I apologise. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Yokai Mitsuhide
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5722
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:53:00 -
[89] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: No, what I got from this thread is that Somer Blink is bad
So proud of you, we knew you'd get there. |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:56:00 -
[90] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: No, what I got from this thread is that Somer Blink is bad
So proud of you, we knew you'd get there.
Patronising and quote mining.... are you a creationist by any chance?
If you're gonna have a problem with SOMER selling plex, then have one with Amazon too. And everyone else that sells plex and isn't CCP but is AUTHORISED by CCP at their discretion. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
|

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2104
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:56:00 -
[91] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:No, what I got from this thread is that Somer Blink is bad, but we can forget about all the other authorised plex dealers because we didn't lose our money gambling on their websites and aren't butthurt about them. Lrn2read, I shouldn't have to explain what I said, unless you're still learning basic English, in which case I apologise. Maybe you missed the point where SOMER is essentially paying isk to people buying through them? Which is a bit different than other dealers.
And for future reference, don't preface an insult about learning basic English with "Lrn2read". It looks incredibly stupid. |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 08:58:00 -
[92] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:No, what I got from this thread is that Somer Blink is bad, but we can forget about all the other authorised plex dealers because we didn't lose our money gambling on their websites and aren't butthurt about them. Lrn2read, I shouldn't have to explain what I said, unless you're still learning basic English, in which case I apologise. Maybe you missed the point where SOMER is essentially paying isk to people buying through them? Which is a bit different than other dealers. And for future reference, don't preface an insult about learning basic English with "Lrn2read". It looks incredibly stupid.
I didn't miss the attempted point. I did dismiss it as nonsense, since Somer credit =/= isk, unless you win. Which is a bit different from just handing over isk. You really have to be incredibly vexatious to try to twist it the way you are trying to, I can think of no other reason to do so other than hating on Somer.
As for me looking incredibly stupid, I don't really care how I look to someone who's incredibly stupid. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=310824&find=unread
CCP have not fixed this issue.
|

Yokai Mitsuhide
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5723
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:05:00 -
[94] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If you're gonna have a problem with SOMER selling plex, then have one with Amazon too.
No. |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:06:00 -
[95] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
If you're gonna have a problem with SOMER selling plex, then have one with Amazon too.
No.
Then your hypocritical outrage is irrelevant and not worth the typeface it's printed in. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Yokai Mitsuhide
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5723
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:10:00 -
[96] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
If you're gonna have a problem with SOMER selling plex, then have one with Amazon too.
No. Then your hypocritical outrage is irrelevant and not worth the typeface it's printed in.
It's not? :(
|

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2660
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:11:00 -
[97] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Somer credit =/= isk, unless you win.
Ehm, win what exactly? I might be lacking in reading comprehension but as far as I understand information provided on Somer's website it works like this: I buy PLEX with their affiliate link -> I get PLEX Credit(s) which I can "redeem" and contract my PLEX to Somer at "our great buying price!". Not exactly a lot of places to win anything here.
Invalid signature format |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2107
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I didn't miss the attempted point. I did dismiss it as nonsense, since Somer credit =/= isk, unless you win. Which is a bit different from just handing over isk. You really have to be incredibly vexatious to try to twist it the way you are trying to, I can think of no other reason to do so other than hating on Somer. As for me looking incredibly stupid, I don't really care how I look to someone who's incredibly stupid. You don't have to win anything to get the extra isk from them. You buy through their referral and then you use that credit to sell the plex to them for a higher price than it goes for in Jita. |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Somer credit =/= isk, unless you win. Ehm, win what exactly? I might be lacking in reading comprehension but as far as I understand information provided on Somer's website it works like this: I buy PLEX with their affiliate link -> I get PLEX Credit(s) which I can "redeem" and contract my PLEX to Somer at "our great buying price!". Not exactly a lot of places to win anything here. Oh, btw: they are not giving credits to use in their lotteries as they did before, they are giving "PLEX Credits" which allow you to offer them your PLEX at "great buying price!".
Yes, I just read the page. I'm not seeing any problem, and I will reiterate my position that those that think there is one remind me of those people that spy on neighbours they don't like just watching for them to make one "wrong move" (which may or may not be wrong) just for the sake of getting them in trouble. This is just another pathetic witch hunt, and you all need to let it go. You'll live longer. Seriously, chill the **** out. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2660
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:23:00 -
[100] - Quote
Well, pay me $1 of RL money and I will contract you 1 PLEX for free. But if you would like I could buy that PLEX back from you at Jita price + 10%. No problem here I guess... Invalid signature format |
|

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:27:00 -
[101] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Well, pay me $1 of RL money and I will contract you 1 PLEX for free. But if you would like I could buy that PLEX back from you at Jita price + 10%. No problem here I guess...
The difference is authorisation. Have you got CCP's authorisation to do that? If not, then no.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
271
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
This again? I'm sure CCP will get around to addressing the issues at hand,right after they finish preparing that community survey or whatever they promised us last year  |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2660
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:30:00 -
[103] - Quote
Difference is I don't have MD affiliate link for you to use but mechanism is the same. I have RL $1 you get more ISK than you would by selling PLEX on market.
I don't have to be CCP approved PLEX dealer to do it, I just need to apply to affiliate program of any of those approved dealers. Invalid signature format |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3802
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:32:00 -
[104] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Posting in another SOMER hate thread that dismisses all the authorised PLEX dealers as RMT'ers and just picks on the one they lost too much of their isk playing. You did a great job of reading absolutely none of the thread and then making a broad, incorrect generalization about it. Except that I did read it, and made a correct assessment of the general tone of the thread. you mean attacking the motivations of the people complaining instead of the complaint? misrepresenting the complaint? that's not an 'assessment', that's fallacious garbage. |

Lair Osen
100
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:33:00 -
[105] - Quote
What if Somer had decided to make the buy price equal to 0.01ISK below the current lowest sell order, would you still classify that as RMT? |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:36:00 -
[106] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Posting in another SOMER hate thread that dismisses all the authorised PLEX dealers as RMT'ers and just picks on the one they lost too much of their isk playing. You did a great job of reading absolutely none of the thread and then making a broad, incorrect generalization about it. Except that I did read it, and made a correct assessment of the general tone of the thread. you mean attacking the motivations of the people complaining instead of the complaint? misrepresenting the complaint? that's not an 'assessment', that's fallacious garbage.
Again, I understand it just fine, and it's no different from any other witch hunt I've been privy to. Fallacious garbage? Can you say "irony"? Because you just described the entire thread. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
257
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:39:00 -
[107] - Quote
Lair Osen wrote:What if Somer had decided to make the buy price equal to 0.01ISK below the current lowest sell order, would you still classify that as RMT?
Yes, the only way not to make RMT is to cut out the buying back of plex out of game:
Use a somer affiliate link, get plex ingame, sell plex on ingame market, get money, transfer money to your somer account.
How it is setup now is just a cheap way to RMT the isk blink makes.
Baddest poster ever |

Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
515
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:45:00 -
[108] - Quote
Who is the greater evil in this case - Somer or CCP? |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:...evil...
See? Witch hunt. Nothing but overreacting, sensationalising, and fist pumping. If you're going to jump to conclusions before CCP says anything on the matter, and assume "guilty" via trial by personal emotions, you're barely even worth the contempt I have for this kind of behaviour.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Lair Osen
100
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:48:00 -
[110] - Quote
handige harrie wrote:Lair Osen wrote:What if Somer had decided to make the buy price equal to 0.01ISK below the current lowest sell order, would you still classify that as RMT? Yes, the only way not to make RMT is to cut out the buying back of plex out of game: Use a somer affiliate link, get plex ingame, sell plex on ingame market, get money, transfer money to your somer account. How it is setup now is just a cheap way to RMT the isk blink makes.
Well then we can clearly see that the price of PLEX and the 'RMT'ing is not the issue at all here but the fact that the program is only available to Somer referal users.
So, what you are really unhappy with is that Somer is allowed to provide a service of any kind, even if it is not good, and discriminate the use of the service to it's customers. The RMT element is completely irrelevant. |
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23924
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 09:54:00 -
[111] - Quote
handige harrie wrote:Lair Osen wrote:What if Somer had decided to make the buy price equal to 0.01ISK below the current lowest sell order, would you still classify that as RMT? Yes, the only way not to make RMT is to cut out the buying back of plex out of game: Use a somer affiliate link, get plex ingame, sell plex on ingame market, get money, transfer money to your somer account. How it is setup now is just a cheap way to RMT the isk blink makes. More generally, the problem is in the GÇ£if GÇö and only if GÇö you use this affiliate link (read: if you give us real money) we will give you something in-gameGÇ¥ setup of the deal.
The actual value of the stuff given in-game is irrelevant. They could be giving away one trit and it would still be RMT since it's an exchange of out-of-game currency for in-game possessions. The only way for it not to be RMT is if the affiliate-link purchase only has out-of-game benefits. I don't know what that would be in Somer's caseGǪ high-priority server connections that responds to clicks faster or something?
If they were to under-price the payout rather than overprice it, it would still be a trade between out-of-game for in-game stuff on top of being a bad deal for the trader. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
515
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:00:00 -
[112] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Guttripper wrote:...evil... ... you're barely even worth the contempt I have for this kind of behaviour.
Remiel Pollard wrote:Patronising and quote mining.... are you a creationist by any chance? Practice what you preach or you above yourself? |

Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1835
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:01:00 -
[113] - Quote
'Pure' RMT would be: give me 1$ IRL and I'll give you 50 Million ISK in-game.
This scheme is: give CCP 20$ IRL and I'll give you 50 Million ISK in-game, because CCP will give 1$ IRL to me.
The difference is that CCP is the middleman in the RL cash transfer.
It's not a negligible difference, and if CCP says it's ok then it's ok.
But if CCP says it's ok, then logic would suggest:
1) anybody can do it, not just Somer
2) the PLEX buyback is completely unnecessary, anybody should be free to just give ISK, in-game assets, or both to players that buy PLEX from them
If 1) and 2) don't apply, then yes this is indeed shady.
On a side note, I think all lotteries are stupid and if everybody thought the same, Somer wouldn't even exist.  Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:03:00 -
[114] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Guttripper wrote:...evil... ... you're barely even worth the contempt I have for this kind of behaviour. Remiel Pollard wrote:Patronising and quote mining.... are you a creationist by any chance? Practice what you preach or you above yourself?
No, I wasn't quote mining. I was pointing out the use of the word. Just using it is overreacting. Genocide is evil. **** is evil. RMT? #Firstworldproblems
Quote mining is quoting a selection out of context. The word you used, evil, WAS the context. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3802
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Again, I understand it just fine, that's lovely. and i didn't say otherwise.
Remiel Pollard wrote:and it's no different from any other witch hunt I've been privy to. Fallacious garbage? Can you say "irony"? Because you just described the entire thread. Which I did read and assess correctly, and that includes examining Somer's Blink Credit page.
This is "Grr Somer". That's all this is. you attacked the motivations of the thread's participants twice and misrepresented the complaint twice before even acknowledging what you believe is a flawed premise, that blink credits can be equated to a real ingame isk value. |

Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1835
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:13:00 -
[116] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:a flawed premise, that blink credits can be equated to a real ingame isk value. I'm honestly unfamiliar with Somer Blink mechanics:
. Don't you need ISK to buy these credits?
. Can't you convert the credits back to ISK? If not, how do you 'win' ISK? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |

Steijn
Quay Industries
579
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:13:00 -
[117] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:'Pure' RMT would be: give me 1$ IRL and I'll give you 50 Million ISK in-game. This scheme is: give CCP 20$ IRL and I'll give you 50 Million ISK in-game, because CCP will give 1$ IRL to me. The difference is that CCP is the middleman in the RL cash transfer. It's not a negligible difference, and if CCP says it's ok then it's ok. But if CCP says it's ok, then logic would suggest: 1) anybody can do it, not just Somer 2) the PLEX buyback is completely unnecessary, anybody should be free to just give ISK, in-game assets, or both to players that buy PLEX from them If 1) and 2) don't apply, then yes this is indeed shady. On a side note, I think all lotteries are stupid and if everybody thought the same, Somer wouldn't even exist. 
its not the lottery thats shady/stupid, its the connection between the lottery and CCP that is shady. |

Victor Andall
710
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:15:00 -
[118] - Quote
The funniest part about this thread is the part where none of this **** matters. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4208
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:16:00 -
[119] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Again, I understand it just fine, that's lovely. and i didn't say otherwise. Remiel Pollard wrote:and it's no different from any other witch hunt I've been privy to. Fallacious garbage? Can you say "irony"? Because you just described the entire thread. Which I did read and assess correctly, and that includes examining Somer's Blink Credit page.
This is "Grr Somer". That's all this is. you attacked the motivations of the thread's participants twice and misrepresented the complaint twice before even acknowledging what you believe is a flawed premise, that blink credits can be equated to a real ingame isk value.
I gave the thread and its sensationalist posters the acknowledgement they deserved. I don't need to explain myself to you though. Who are you that I do? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |

Arec Bardwin
1499
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:25:00 -
[120] - Quote
On another note, why is Markee the only entity that is allowed to offer 30 day trial accounts? |
|

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3803
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:29:00 -
[121] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:a flawed premise, that blink credits can be equated to a real ingame isk value. I'm honestly unfamiliar with Somer Blink mechanics: . Don't you need ISK to buy these credits? . Can't you convert the credits back to ISK? If not, how do you 'win' ISK? yes, you use isk to buy credit no, you can't convert credit to isk, you need to win a lottery using the credit. it's reckoned that somer pays out eighty percent of the isk it makes
Quote:I gave the thread and its sensationalist posters the acknowledgement they deserved. I don't need to explain myself to you though. Who are you that I do? you entered the thread with fallacious comments and you're continuing to use them. you don't need to explain yourself to anyone... unless you want to be taken seriously. |

Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1836
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:45:00 -
[122] - Quote
Thanks, Benny. I need to correct my post then:
'Pure' RMT would be: give me 1$ IRL and I'll give you 45 Million ISK in-game.
This scheme is: give CCP 20$ IRL, give me that PLEX and I'll give you back on average 660 Million ISK (80% of a PLEX's ISK worth + 80% of 45 Mil) instead of just 625 Million ISK (80% of a PLEX's ISK worth). Additionally, CCP will also give 1$ IRL to me! Yay! I'm so smart, you're so dumb!
Hmmm... now my personal verdict (fwiw ) has changed.
This is not RMT, it sounds more like a scam actually. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11094
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 10:53:00 -
[123] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:no, you can't convert credit to isk, you need to win a lottery using the credit And when you can win every single lottery you play, this is a trivial distinction. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23927
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:02:00 -
[124] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thanks, Benny. I need to correct my post then: No, you had it right the first time. He's describing the actual lottery and the effects of the buy-out margins, not the PLEX buy-back scheme.
Yes, the lottery is a scam. All lotteries are GÇö that's how they make money. That's something quite separate from the affiliateGåÆcreditGåÆbuybackGåÆISK cycle though. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
300
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:09:00 -
[125] - Quote
The more people that buy PLEX the better it is for the game in my opinion. More real money injected into Eve is always a good thing. So personally I can see why CCP would approve of this scheme.
Also anyone can do it if it is legit, so there is no problem. |

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
544
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:09:00 -
[126] - Quote
With all due respect, just don't play blink? Problem solved. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:13:00 -
[127] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:With all due respect, just don't play blink? Problem solved. That... doesn't solve the problem at all. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Kern Hotha
62
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:14:00 -
[128] - Quote
I wonder if is there an interested CCP employee with authority to influence this situation who understands why it is ethically wrong to support and encourage this kind of activity. I know of no other game company that shows such favoritism to a group of players who happen to make the game company a bit of extra money. The extra money that your pet gambling operation/PLEX dealer is bringing in should be weighed against what it does to your company's reputation. We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.
Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955) |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23927
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:15:00 -
[129] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:With all due respect, just don't play blink? Problem solved. Since the problem is with CCP and their preferential treatment, no, that doesn't really solve anything.
Ok, sure, if everyone did it and Somer went out of business so CCP couldn't do it any more, then yes, it would make the problem go away. It's still not really solved, though. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:17:00 -
[130] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vyktor Abyss wrote:With all due respect, just don't play blink? Problem solved. Since the problem is with CCP and their preferential treatment, no, that doesn't really solve anything. Ok, sure, if everyone did it and Somer went out of business so CCP couldn't do it any more, then yes, it would make the problem go away. It's still not really solved, though.
Why are CCP showing preferential treatment towards Somer?
Where has it been said that nobody else can do what they are doing?
Unless CCP have told somebody else to stop doing exactly what Somer are doing then no preferential treatment has been show.
By all means accuse CCP of preferential treatment if they are allowing Somer to do something when they have stopped others but if they haven't then you can't claim they are showing preferential treatment. |
|

Hra Neuvosto
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
293
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:20:00 -
[131] - Quote
The ride never ends |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23927
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:20:00 -
[132] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Why are CCP showing preferential treatment towards Somer? Well, setting the history of the matter aside, we have this interesting deal where somer is being allowed to receive cash in exchange for handing out ISK, something that is generally forbidden.
Quote:Where has it been said that nobody else can do what they are doing? Fair enough. The only place that suggests anything like that is the Somer website. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Memrox
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
120
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:22:00 -
[133] - Quote
The problem is partly down to CCP thinking that Somer doesn't have ulterior motives, where as they see everyone else as RMT insta bans.
One rule for Somer one for the rest of us.
One ring to rule them all.. |

Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1836
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:25:00 -
[134] - Quote
Tippia, James, I still fail to see the RMT part.
If I want to spend, say, 200$ to get in-game assets:
. CCP gives me 10 PLEX, that I can currently sell in Jita for 7,800 M ISK or so - in-game CASH . Somer gives me lottery credits worth 8,250 M or so, that I can then expect to convert to in-game CASH at a 80% rate: 6,600 M ISK
Sounds like a lousy deal to me.
If you're saying that Somer is allowed to give in-game incentives to buy PLEX from them while other websites aren't, then I do agree with the 'preferential treatment' part. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:26:00 -
[135] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Why are CCP showing preferential treatment towards Somer? Well, setting the history of the matter aside, we have this interesting deal where somer is being allowed to receive cash in exchange for handing out ISK, something that is generally forbidden.
No, that is your interpretation of what is happening. If CCP have given this the green light then they do not agree with your interpretation and whether we like it or not this is CCP product and they are judge and jury.
Quote:Where has it been said that nobody else can do what they are doing? Fair enough. The only place that suggests anything like that is the Somer website.[/quote]
Where does it suggest on their website that only they are allowed to do this? I've had a quick look and nowhere can I find anything that even comes close to Somer saying that they are the only people allowed to run this type of incentive scheme.
|

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:29:00 -
[136] - Quote
Memrox wrote:The problem is partly down to CCP thinking that Somer doesn't have ulterior motives, where as they see everyone else as RMT insta bans.
One rule for Somer one for the rest of us.
One ring to rule them all..
Again, where has it been stated by CCP that only Somer is allowed to run this scheme?
Who else has tried to do this and has been told stop by CCP?
If you do not agree with what somer is doing fine, if you think it is a form of RMT that is also fine, however you can not accuse of CCP having on rule for some and one rule for everybody else until CCP stop somebody else from running the same scheme. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3804
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:32:00 -
[137] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thanks, Benny. I need to correct my post then: No, you had it right the first time. He's describing the actual lottery and the effects of the buy-out margins, not the PLEX buy-back scheme. Yes, the lottery is a scam. All lotteries are GÇö that's how they make money. That's something quite separate from the affiliateGåÆcreditGåÆbuybackGåÆISK cycle though. i'd thought somer's 'plex credit' was used to swap the PLEX for somer isk credit to the value of jita PLEX price plus thirty million. it's actually swapped for actual isk. gosh. |

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:37:00 -
[138] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thanks, Benny. I need to correct my post then: No, you had it right the first time. He's describing the actual lottery and the effects of the buy-out margins, not the PLEX buy-back scheme. Yes, the lottery is a scam. All lotteries are GÇö that's how they make money. That's something quite separate from the affiliateGåÆcreditGåÆbuybackGåÆISK cycle though. i'd thought somer's 'plex credit' was used to swap the PLEX for somer isk credit to the value of jita PLEX price plus thirty million. it's actually swapped for actual isk. gosh.
This is what it is.
1. You visit Somers website and use his referral 2. You purchase plex from Markee Dragon 3. Enter your reference number on Somers Site 4. Redeem your credits 5. Log onto Eve, create a contract making sure that the contract contains the correct amount of PLEX, and that you are requesting the correct amount of money. 6. Receive 830mil isk for each plex |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:42:00 -
[139] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thanks, Benny. I need to correct my post then: No, you had it right the first time. He's describing the actual lottery and the effects of the buy-out margins, not the PLEX buy-back scheme. Yes, the lottery is a scam. All lotteries are GÇö that's how they make money. That's something quite separate from the affiliateGåÆcreditGåÆbuybackGåÆISK cycle though. i'd thought somer's 'plex credit' was used to swap the PLEX for somer isk credit to the value of jita PLEX price plus thirty million. it's actually swapped for actual isk. gosh. Yeah, I didn't even read anything because I assumed this was just the same **** that they were pulling the last time we had this scandal. This is actually worse. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23928
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:43:00 -
[140] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Tippia, James, I still fail to see the RMT part.
If I want to spend, say, 200$ to get in-game assets:
. CCP gives me 10 PLEX, that I can currently sell in Jita for 7,800 M ISK or so - in-game CASH . Somer gives me lottery credits worth 8,250 M or so, that I can then expect to convert to in-game CASH at a 80% rate: 6,600 M ISK
Sounds like a lousy deal to me. That's because that's not what is happening. Instead, compare and contrast these two options:
1. You give CCP $200 and get 10 PLEX in return. You go to the market and sell those for 7.8bn ISK. 2. You use Somer's referral link, spend $200 and get 10 PLEX from the retailer and 10 PLEX credits from Somer. Somer, in turn, gets ~$9 from the retailer. You then hand in the PLEX credits and the PLEX themselves to Somer in exchange for 7.8bn + 450M ISK (directly to your wallet since the PLEX transfer is a standard contract).
Key difference: By using the referral link, you ensure that Somer gets $9 and in exchange you get 450M ISK more than you otherwise would.
Quote:If you're saying that Somer is allowed to give in-game incentives to buy PLEX from them while other websites aren't, then I do agree with the 'preferential treatment' part. Pretty much.
Prince Kobol wrote:No, that is your interpretation of what is happening. It's not so much an interpretation as a matter of fact. It's how the PLEX repurchase system works. If it works otherwise, then Somer (and everyone who has tried it) is lying about how the program works.
The fact that CCP has supposedly given this a green light is the preferential treatment since it would be flagged as blatant RMT otherwise.
Quote:Where does it suggest on their website that only they are allowed to do this? The part where they say that this has been vetted and cleared by CCP. CCP has been very clear that anyone and everyone caught RMTing will get slapped hard. The Somer statement, if true, means they're not being treated like everyone else. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|

Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
402
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:46:00 -
[141] - Quote
very clever way of geting around the rules i say.
wrong maybe.....
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:49:00 -
[142] - Quote
The only proper resolution of this should be to ban all of Somerset Mahm's accounts permanently.
This crap will continue otherwise. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1836
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:52:00 -
[143] - Quote
Whelp, my bad for not checking the facts myself. 
If it's now ok (for anyone) to openly give ISK and/or other in-game assets to promote their PLEX reselling, CCP should indeed state it clearly. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |

Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
322
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:52:00 -
[144] - Quote
This is the greatest miscarriage of justice since the Casey Anthony trial.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:53:00 -
[145] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:No, that is your interpretation of what is happening. It's not so much an interpretation as a matter of fact. It's how the PLEX repurchase system works. If it works otherwise, then Somer (and everyone who has tried it) is lying about how the program works.
No, it is still your interpretation on how it works. You do not work for CCP, you can not speak on their behalf. The only interpretation that matters is CCP's. We can only guess what CCP's interpretation is on any given subject until they rule one way or another. In this instance it appears that they have ruled this not be RMT.
Tippia wrote:The fact that CCP has supposedly given this a green light is the preferential treatment since it would be flagged as blatant RMT otherwise. Prince Kobol wrote:Where does it suggest on their website that only they are allowed to do this? The part where they say that this has been vetted and cleared by CCP. CCP has been very clear that anyone and everyone caught RMTing will get slapped hard. The Somer statement, if true, means they're not being treated like everyone else.
No because nobody else has done what somer are doing.
I have no issue that you feel what is happening is wrong, I have no issue that you feel it is a form of RMT and it is your right and everybody else's right to discuss the matter, however until somebody does exactly what Somer is doing then you can not claim it is preferential treatment and that CCP have stopped anybody else doing what they are doing.
|

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:54:00 -
[146] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:The only proper resolution of this should be to ban all of Somerset Mahm's accounts permanently.
This crap will continue otherwise.
Or just set up something and do exactly what he is doing. |
|

CCP Falcon
7960

|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:58:00 -
[147] - Quote
Hey guys,
I'm just dropping a blue barred post in this thread, so that you know that we're not ignoring you.
I'm speaking with people internally to find out what's up with this, and myself and CCP Leeloo have already sat down this morning with the CSM for a preliminary meeting about what's gone on here.
I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers.
Sorry for the silence thus far, but I was only made aware of this late last night.
I'll have more for you guys once I'm up to speed 
- F CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:59:00 -
[148] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:The only proper resolution of this should be to ban all of Somerset Mahm's accounts permanently.
This crap will continue otherwise. Or just set up something and do exactly what he is doing. I don't have that capability. Not many people do. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Memrox
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
120
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 11:59:00 -
[149] - Quote
Ban Somer, stop these affiliate links and everything will be fair and square. I'd like to see Somer banned on the grounds of causing mass distress to the Eve population for the second time. Almost terr.... like lol |

Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
518
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:00:00 -
[150] - Quote
Just some wild thoughts for a moment, don't mind me...
Previous patch raised the cost of performing industrial related tasks as a whole while adding other ISK sinks like teams.
CCP (nearly) simultaneously had a plex sale.
A few weeks later, Somer is offering bonus ISK to buy your plex.
Coincidence or ideal timing? 
Edit: While posting, this thought arrived - will Somer buy any plex or only those purchased through Markee Dragon? If I am understanding the flow from what I have read on Mitten's site, then it is only that one route - from Markee. |
|

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:01:00 -
[151] - Quote
Just to raise one other point, if it transpires that Somer has lied about this scheme being authorised by CCP then I would expect CCP to perma ban all his accounts and to confiscate all isk and any items on those accounts.
Anything else would be disgraceful. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23929
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:02:00 -
[152] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:No, it is still your interpretation on how it works. So you're saying that Somer isn't describing their own procedures accurately?
Quote:We can only guess what CCP's interpretation is on any given subject until they rule one way or another. In this instance it appears that they have ruled this not be RMT. GǪand any such ruling is absurd given Somer's description of the procedure.
Quote:No because nobody else has done what somer are doing. You mean hand out ISK in exchange for referral bucks? Yes there is: Somer did it. They had to stop because it was blatant RMT when you untangled the transactions, and all PLEX retailers were required to alter their terms to no longer allow for the kind of in-game/out-of-game mixing Somer was into.
Quote:until somebody does exactly what Somer is doing then you can not claim it is preferential treatment and that CCP have stopped anybody else doing what they are doing. Sure I can, especially given the history of Somer getting (massive) preferential treatment.
Quote:We go back to the point that CCP have apparently ruled this is not a form of RMT which makes your last statement invalid. GǪand that would, itself, be a case of massive preferential treatment if true, since they have supposedly ruled a very obvious exchange of real money for ISK as GÇ£not RMTGÇ¥ in this single case. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:02:00 -
[153] - Quote
Memrox wrote:Ban Somer, stop these affiliate links and everything will be fair and square. I'd like to see Somer banned on the grounds of causing mass distress to the Eve population for the second time. Almost terr.... like lol
This is just a stupid idea.
Affiliate links are a great way of getting people/companies to sell products.
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:03:00 -
[154] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:No because nobody else has done what somer are doing. Nobody else has been told that this was acceptable to do. Even if it is and now everyone is allowed to do it, that alone indicates favoritism.
Prince Kobol wrote:We go back to the point that CCP have apparently ruled this is not a form of RMT which makes your last statement invalid. No, we're at the point where Somer says that CCP has ruled that this is not a form of RMT. If they're telling the truth then it's possible they got some rookie/careless/apathetic GM who gave them the green light, and this isn't actually a new direction in CCP's policy at all. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:07:00 -
[155] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:No, it is still your interpretation on how it works. So you're saying that Somer isn't describing their own procedures accurately? You have lost me here, sorry. Quote:We can only guess what CCP's interpretation is on any given subject until they rule one way or another. In this instance it appears that they have ruled this not be RMT. GǪand any such ruling is absurd given Somer's description of the procedure. You have the right to think that, I am not arguing that, what I am saying that it is your opinion which at the moment is the opposite of CCP's, and CCP's opinion is what matters as unfortunate as that might be. Quote:No because nobody else has done what somer are doing. You mean hand out ISK in exchange for referral bucks? Yes there is: Somer did it. They had to stop because it was blatant RMT when you untangled the transactions, and all PLEX retailers were required to alter their terms to no longer allow for the kind of in-game/out-of-game mixing Somer was into. Again apparently CCP feel that what they are doing this time is within what ever frame work they work to in regards to RMT. You might feel it isn't as is your right, but apparently CCP feel that it is. Quote:until somebody does exactly what Somer is doing then you can not claim it is preferential treatment and that CCP have stopped anybody else doing what they are doing. Sure I can, especially given the history of Somer getting (massive) preferential treatment.
Then give an example of somebody doing this and being stopped by CCP and I will whole heartily agree with you.
(god damn forum has messed up the quotes lol.. sorry) |

TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
849
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:07:00 -
[156] - Quote
Ah and still through Markee Dragon as well, the infamous RMT master of MMO land. Always finding cracks to exploit.
Guess the debate is back on again. I'll see you guys in one of the 20 topics that are undoubtedly going to sprout in the coming weeks. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2149
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:10:00 -
[157] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:...
Then give an example of somebody doing this and being stopped by CCP and I will whole heartily agree with you. Why would anyone do this? They would get banned. Somer, on the other hand, might get a slap on the wrist. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:12:00 -
[158] - Quote
Is it possible that Markee Dragon is the person behind Somerset Mahm? No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:13:00 -
[159] - Quote
It is blatant RMTing, as it was last time.
If CCP have authorised this scheme, as claimed by Somer, then CCP have opened the field for anyone and everyone to RMT as they are now saying it is ok. Questions must be asked of whoever in CCP authorised it- not a good start to Seagulls reign.
If CCP did not authorise the scheme or were duped by Somer then he should be banned and all accounts related to Somer should be deleted and banned.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23929
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:14:00 -
[160] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:You have lost me here, sorry. I'm saying that it's not an interpretation GÇö it's how the process is described by Somer. If I'm GÇ£interpretingGÇ¥ it wrong, it's because it is not being described correctly.
Quote:You have the right to think that, I am not arguing that, what I am saying that it is your opinion which at the moment is the opposite of CCP's, and CCP's opinion is what matters as unfortunate as that might be. GǪand thus we arrive at the preferential treatment: if CCP's opinion is any different in this case than in any other where people have offered in-game ISK in exchange for a series of transactions that net them real-life cash, then Somer is being held to a different standard than the official one.
Quote:Then give an example of somebody doing this and being stopped by CCP and I will whole heartily agree with you. The most obvious one is Somer themselves, a year ago.
All they've done is simplify the transactions and started dealing in actual in-game ISK rather than credits that have to be cashed out through the lottery. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:14:00 -
[161] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:No because nobody else has done what somer are doing. Nobody else has been told that this was acceptable to do. Even if it is and now everyone is allowed to do it, that alone indicates favoritism.
Has anybody ever asked?
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:We go back to the point that CCP have apparently ruled this is not a form of RMT which makes your last statement invalid. No, we're at the point where Somer says that CCP has ruled that this is not a form of RMT. If they're telling the truth then it's possible they got some rookie/careless/apathetic GM who gave them the green light, and this isn't actually a new direction in CCP's policy at all.
That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? |

Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
561
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:15:00 -
[162] - Quote
So theoretically-speaking, if this is made all above board (Heh ), lets say theoretically if I was in desperate need of isk, and a "friend" who was no longer interested in EvE had lots of isk he no longer wanted, he could get himself made an affiliate, and sell me Plex for CCP-price, and get a kickback for his trouble, which then if I had a "sudden and unexpected change of heart", I could then use his "patent and legit" buyback service that gives me 10% more isk than if I'd sold on market.
Then, lets say, I realised I actually really needed that Plex from him, I could buy it again, and he gets another sweet kickback, but get this, I'm like, really, really indecisive, so I let him buyback that same plex again, again for 10% more isk (he's such a swell guy!).
I think I'm good, but I take a "knock to the head", and forget why I didn't need that Plex, so I buy it off him yet again (that Plex is getting some mileage, and he's getting some kickback), but I "get better", and him being such a decent guy, lets me drop it though his buyback scheme again, and again I get that 10% for my trouble (he's too decent a guy obviously to only make me get it once, what a friend!). And again, and again. And this isn't RMT? 
[Edit - Heh, apologies, phone ] |

Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:16:00 -
[163] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:So theoretically-speaking, if this is made all above board (Heh  ), lets say theoretically if I was in desperate need of isk, and a "friend" who was no longer interested in EvE had lots of isk he no longer wanted, he could get himself made an affiliate, and sell me Plex for CCP-price, and get a kickback for his trouble, which then if I had a "sudden and unexpected change of heart", I could then use his "patent and legit" buyback service that gives me 10% more isk than if I'd sold on market. Then, lets say, I realised I actually really needed that Plex from him, I could buy it again, and he gets another sweet kickback, but get this, I'm like, really, really indecisive, so I let him buyback that same plex again, again for 10% more isk (he's such a swell guy!). I think I'm good, but I take a "knock to the head", and forget why I didn't need that Plex, so I buy it off him yet again (that Plex is getting some mileage, and he's getting some kickback), but I "get better", and him being such a decent guy, lets me drop it though his buyback scheme again, and again I get that 10% for my trouble (he's too decent a guy obviously to only make me get it once, what a friend!). And again, and again. And this isn't RMT? 
Dude, paragraphs please
If I get the gist of what you are saying, so long as CCP say its okay then sure, why not  |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23929
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:20:00 -
[164] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? I don't think anyone is blaming SomerGǪ much. The ire is over the preferential treatment such a ruling would confer. The largest portion of blame lies with CCP for not enforcing their rules properly.
Somer is just your average scoundrel stealing gambler's money. That's what gamblers are for. I suppose that some blame could be assigned for trying the same scheme twice, only it's much more simplified and blatant this time around, even though it got shut down hard last time.
e: way to prove me wrong.  vvv GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:24:00 -
[165] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? I'm blaming somer all I like. Try and stop me. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

Prince Kobol
2053
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:25:00 -
[166] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? I don't think anyone is blaming SomerGǪ much. The ire is over the preferential treatment such a ruling would confer. The largest portion of blame lies with CCP for not enforcing their rules properly. Somer is just your average scoundrel stealing gambler's money. That's what gamblers are for. I suppose that some blame could be assigned for trying the same scheme twice, only it's much more simplified and blatant this time around, even though it got shut down hard last time.
Unfortunately most of the posts on this forum is grr Somer when it should be aimed directly at CCP.
For a game where the community prides itself on cheating, scamming, meta play, stretching the rules to breaking point the amount of butt hurt towards Somer is staggering.
For me the blame should be solely at CCP's feet if they did indeed allow this. Also I do not believe for one moment a GM would take this kind of decision without consulting somebody higher up.
|

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4321
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:26:00 -
[167] - Quote
Now there's a hope that CCP will give a response that isn't just empty PR speak. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |

Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
1148
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:05:00 -
[168] - Quote
To ban Somer would make the banned RMT ISK graph take a nice little jump this month. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|

Clyde Barrows
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:25:00 -
[169] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:How about this guys:
EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
That just about sums it up for me.
I like this rule . Seems like it is being circumvented by CCP for Somer . |

Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:27:00 -
[170] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Now there's a hope that CCP will give a response that isn't just empty PR speak. There's a first time for everything. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
|

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4094
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:28:00 -
[171] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Then give an example of somebody doing this and being stopped by CCP and I will whole heartily agree with you. Did you miss this last year? Some had to stop because it was clearly a convoluted form of RMT. They try to mix it up as much as they can. btu the end result is that they give out isk and receive money. For that CCP forced them to stop. Around the same time, other people started rolling out the same thing as a form of protest and were also asked to stop. It seems like Somer have now managed to get a GM to say it's OK, which is likely against CCPs policy, so they can roll out the same thing.
Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? You most certainly can blame Somer for it. They know full well it's not allowed, as they were told to stop (though they milked out as much as they could by increasing the reward when they were given a deadline to stop it), and now they are back to the same trick with a slightly more confusing structure, as if we're not going to notice it's the same thing.
At this point, I'm all for Somer getting full RMTer treatment and being permabanned across the board. It's clear that they aren't interested in stopping and will continue to try to convert their scammed isk into real currency, so they should be treated the same as other RMTers. If CCP don't bring down considerably more decisive action this time round, there will be a great many people who will be, let's say less than pleased. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
139
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:29:00 -
[172] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: Again, I understand it just fine, and it's no different from any other witch hunt I've been privy to. Fallacious garbage? Can you say "irony"? Because you just described the entire thread. Which I did read and assess correctly, and that includes examining Somer's Blink Credit page.
This is "Grr Somer". That's all this is.
This has nothing to do with witch hunt or because we hate SOMER, maybe some do, but I certainly don't. I have made a lot of ISK with them (and I don't mean because I was lucky). They basically financed my ganking when I started before it became self sustaining (I am happy to give you details if you don't believe me). So I have no problem with their gambling service.
They always sold PLEX and made money from it, that is not the problem. The problem starts when they give you extra ISK when you purchase the PLEX from them and not from somewhere else. And that's what they do now, they try to obfuscate it a bit with this PLEX credit, but in the end it is pretty straight forward "if you buy PLEX from us you get additional ISK".
They claim this is CCP sanctioned, we will see about that. CCP Falcons response indicated that they are as surprised about this new service as everyone else.
If this is indeed CCP sanctioned then the question is can all the other PLEX resellers run a similar program and basically try to improve their PLEX sales by offering even more additional ISK for the buyer. It is not really hard to see that some dude with trillions of ISK would jump on this and basically sell his ISK stash for better PLEX sales and therefor more RL $ from the cut you get when you sell a PLEX.
If this is not CCP sanctioned then SOMER should face the consequences everyone else would face if they sell ISK for $ because in the end that is what it all boils down too. Of course this is CCPs decision and they already demonstrated a year ago that SOMER is basically a friend of the sheriff. Let's hope they have grown a bit (ahahahaha, yeah, that's not even funny). the Code ALWAYS wins |

Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
635
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:34:00 -
[173] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Is it possible that Markee Dragon is the person behind Somerset Mahm?
I was thinking the same thing. He's the type that makes his living RMT'ing MMO's. From what I've read online, he's caused a shitstorm in a few of the mainstream MMO's. Do a little googling around and you'll find lots to read.
o/
They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake. |

Victor Andall
710
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:36:00 -
[174] - Quote
Belt Scout wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Is it possible that Markee Dragon is the person behind Somerset Mahm? I was thinking the same thing. He's the type that makes his living RMT'ing MMO's. From what I've read online, he's caused a shitstorm in a few of the mainstream MMO's. Do a little googling around and you'll find lots to read. o/
Markee Dragon has been featured by CCP in the Community Highlights one.
THE PLOT!
SHE THICKENS! I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |

GreenSeed
1113
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:43:00 -
[175] - Quote
be nice, shes just big boned. |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4094
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:44:00 -
[176] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Again, I understand it just fine, and it's no different from any other witch hunt I've been privy to. Fallacious garbage? Can you say "irony"? Because you just described the entire thread. Which I did read and assess correctly, and that includes examining Somer's Blink Credit page.
This is "Grr Somer". That's all this is. It's not really a witch hunt at all. Somer pay people isk and receive money. That's RMT. Just because they use a convoluted method of receiving their funds doesn't make it any else RMT. Somer should receive the exact same punishment as any other RMTers. Somer have possibly got a GM to agree that it's OK this time round, which makes matters worse, since it's unlikely to be CCPs policy to allow RMT, meaning that Somer knowingly convinced a GM to put themselves in a bad position.
As for the resellers, there's no issues with the affiliate GTC programs if they are operating in the "normal" way, though it is not really a surprise that the reseller helping out Somer is run by a notorious RMTer for other games.
CCP really need to investigate Somer on a deeper level anyway, since it's been suggested before that they use shill accounts to "win" large amounts of isk, then that winning account later RMTs that isk and gets banned, with them losing nothing but a shill account in the process, and having deniability. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Faeana
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:54:00 -
[177] - Quote
In case some people didn't notice, click the bounty tab in game, guess who is at the top spot, no doubt bountied himself to take advantage of the free advertising - MarkeeDragon. |

Marsha Mallow
1437
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:01:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers. Thanks for responding to this promptly.
At this point the only statement worth making is that this practice has been suspended pending review with immediate effect.
Please don't allow Somer/MD another 14 day grace period. This systematic exploitation of the affiliate system might generate bursts of revenue for all involved, but it's costing CCP in lost player goodwill.
When high profile community figures start making statements like this it's about time to start paying attention. Nothing personal to Somer, but if I wanted to hear about someone earning 100k a year through monetised eve related services, it'd be Chribba. Not someone running a dodgy lotto scam site. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |

Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
402
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:04:00 -
[179] - Quote
Blanket ban on all somer accounts taking of all isk and assets closeing down of website the lot
and a nice detailed report from CCP on how many accounts where banned and how much isk was disposed of. |

De'Veldrin
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
2850
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:14:00 -
[180] - Quote
Shall we all stage laser battleships at the monument in preparation for the inevitable end to this discuission where nothing changes and we need to rageroll Jita to get CCP to pay attention? De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
|

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4321
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:17:00 -
[181] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:Blanket ban on all somer accounts taking of all isk and assets closeing down of website the lot
and a nice detailed report from CCP on how many accounts where banned and how much isk was disposed of. If anything you will get a statement that this way of dealing is considered RMT and a EULA violation and that appropriate action is taken against all offending accounts. Any details would violate CCP privacy policy. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |

Prince Kobol
2056
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:24:00 -
[182] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? You most certainly can blame Somer for it. They know full well it's not allowed, as they were told to stop (though they milked out as much as they could by increasing the reward when they were given a deadline to stop it), and now they are back to the same trick with a slightly more confusing structure, as if we're not going to notice it's the same thing. At this point, I'm all for Somer getting full RMTer treatment and being permabanned across the board. It's clear that they aren't interested in stopping and will continue to try to convert their scammed isk into real currency, so they should be treated the same as other RMTers. If CCP don't bring down considerably more decisive action this time round, there will be a great many people who will be, let's say less than pleased.
Then you are just as bad as all the other people going grr Somer and letting your hatred of Somer get in the way of rational thinking.
If Somer has indeed as they have stated been given permission by CCP to run this scheme then they have not broken any rules.
How can you blame a player for any action if they have first gone to CCP and then been given permission?
You can go grrr Somer all you like but if a player goes to CCP first and asks for their guidance / permission to do x and CCP gives them green light then the fault lies 100% with CCP not with the player.
No matter what you say and how against Somer you may be, you will never be able to escape the fact if what Somer has stated is true, CCP have given him their permission for this scheme. |

Prince Kobol
2056
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:29:00 -
[183] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote: They claim this is CCP sanctioned, we will see about that. CCP Falcons response indicated that they are as surprised about this new service as everyone else .
This is where things could very interesting.
Knowing CCP I would not be in slightest bit surprised if somebody with CCP has given Somer permission but has not informed everybody.
|

Rayo Atra
Aliastra Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:55:00 -
[184] - Quote
Blink is my isk faucet. Blink is just an extension of the eve meta at great scale. Eve should not be equal, even if this lack of equality kills it. Take a website creation class, have a solid idea and compete with them, or go home.
Quit yur whining go back to mining. Tell you what I do like though: A killer. A dyed-in-the-wool killer. Cold-blooded, clean, methodical and thorough.
-Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
|

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5789
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:57:00 -
[185] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote: They claim this is CCP sanctioned, we will see about that. CCP Falcons response indicated that they are as surprised about this new service as everyone else .
This is where things could very interesting. Knowing CCP I would not be in slightest bit surprised if somebody with CCP has given Somer permission but has not informed everybody. Anything is possible, people make mistakes.
If that is the case it shouldn't take too long to clear this up. If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á
Ranger 1 Presents https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents |

Prince Kobol
2056
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:01:00 -
[186] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote: They claim this is CCP sanctioned, we will see about that. CCP Falcons response indicated that they are as surprised about this new service as everyone else .
This is where things could very interesting. Knowing CCP I would not be in slightest bit surprised if somebody with CCP has given Somer permission but has not informed everybody. Anything is possible, people make mistakes. If that is the case it shouldn't take too long to clear this up.
Hehe, yeah but this is CCP, there not exactly know for there speedy response |

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1092
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:07:00 -
[187] - Quote
Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful? eve is dying |

Prince Kobol
2056
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:11:00 -
[188] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful?
People are mad that somebody is making RL money from Eve and apprently CCP are cool with this when there not |

Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
402
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:15:00 -
[189] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Lord LazyGhost wrote:Blanket ban on all somer accounts taking of all isk and assets closeing down of website the lot
and a nice detailed report from CCP on how many accounts where banned and how much isk was disposed of. If anything you will get a statement that this way of dealing is considered RMT and a EULA violation and that appropriate action is taken against all offending accounts. Any details would violate CCP privacy policy.
yer i know :) but wishful thinking i guess :) |

Rayo Atra
Aliastra Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:15:00 -
[190] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful?
Meh, most people here have an acknowledgement hangup. Anytime a little mob feels like they can be noticed whining in a way they feel is legitimate, they come out of the woodwork. The rest of just current RMT'ers that don't want anyone else cutting in on their action.
Also, blinked an ashimuu, fleet phoon, and obelisk this week with a 25 mil investment. :] Tell you what I do like though: A killer. A dyed-in-the-wool killer. Cold-blooded, clean, methodical and thorough.
-Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
|
|

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4097
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:21:00 -
[191] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Then you are just as bad as all the other people going grr Somer and letting your hatred of Somer get in the way of rational thinking.
If Somer has indeed as they have stated been given permission by CCP to run this scheme then they have not broken any rules.
How can you blame a player for any action if they have first gone to CCP and then been given permission? Because they know full well that it's not allowed. Them being able to convince a frontline GM to say something he shouldn't doesn't change the policy CCP laid out and chucked at them last time they did this. This just shows that they want to continue RMT, and they will go to any lengths to do so.
Undoubtedly they knew full well that CCP wouldn't let them continue this time round, but can make a mint off of the sales during this investigation period, and people like you saying "they did nothing wrong" are suggesting they should get away with it. If they just say "no Somer, we told you before, so stop it now!" and that's it, then they have once again managed to squeeze a bunch of RMT transactions through the system. At some point you have to turn around and take decisive action so they cannot and will not do it again, and to show others thinking of trying the same that it will not be tolerated. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
2055
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:25:00 -
[192] - Quote
Rayo Atra wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful? Meh, most people here have an acknowledgement hangup. Anytime a little mob feels like they can be noticed whining in a way they feel is legitimate, they come out of the woodwork. The rest of just current RMT'ers that don't want anyone else cutting in on their action. Also, blinked an ashimuu, fleet phoon, and obelisk this week with a 25 mil investment. :] And the rest are somer shills or gamblers that want more bang for their buck.  |

De'Veldrin
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
2851
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:26:00 -
[193] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful?
In general, RMTers tend to also be farmers and they tend to cut out people who are trying to play the game for the game's sake from certain content that is considered high value. (Think rare loot drops). It may be less of a problem in Eve because rare loot tends to make you explode more not less (due to the gank factor), but I don't have information to call that true or false.
I think the primary issue in this particular instance is not that RMT is bad, but that CCP says it's a bannable offense, yet they are (apparently) letting Somer get away with it without punishment, thereby creating an imbalance in the way the rules are applied (an us and them situation) which is just a bad way to run a business. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4097
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:30:00 -
[194] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful? Primarily because allowing RMT generally leads to people running accounts to make cash, and botting, account hacking and spam become pretty heavy. This has all the usual negative side effects including the collapse of the economy. EVE has a slightly different issue as well, which is that people buy a lot of plex to sell for isk. If RMT were allowed, that revenue stream would be cut down heavily.
RMT just doesn't work for MMOs. Pretty much every MMO that's had a serious problem with RMT has suffered. Diablo 3 tried to run legal RMT, and that collapsed in pretty short order. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

cpu939
Eternal Darkness. Get Off My Lawn
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:32:00 -
[195] - Quote
i use some blink not that much but some time for a bit of fun.
that said i too think this is RMT buy plex (rl money) give plex to somer blink get isk (in game money)
|

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
142
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:34:00 -
[196] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful? There is RMT like PLEX and there is EULA breaking RMT like purchasing ISK for $.
The first one isn't really a problem, because the ISK can only be traded for game time. You basically pay some guy his game time and he uses part of it to work for you (by generating ISK). Of course there is the ingame market in between. One can make an argument that this is p2w, but that is just for people who think ISK matters..
The second one tries to establish a real world business by generating revenue out of game money. This may not be a big difference for you as buyer of ISK, but on the other end it changes from a game to a real world industry. Which is probably irrelevant because some people already play this game like a job anyway.
Also CCP makes ISK from the first kind of transaction but not from the second one, so it is in their interest to ban the second kind from their game. Because it's custom on GD to not give a **** or care at all but post anyway we can simply ignore that.
But then there is always that question about how can I sell off my own trillion ISK stash and make $ out of it and if SOMER is alowed to do it, may I do it as well with better conditions so I get all the money and not SOMER? Maybe we can ignore that too because like many others said we are just jealous and SOMER should be privileged by CCP.
So in the end its CCP's decision if they want to treat everyone equally and ban the SOMER guys for a violation of the EULA or if they make exceptions for their friends like they did before and which was not received well by the community.
I think they should have banned this guys a year ago, but that is just my opinion. the Code ALWAYS wins |

E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
670
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:36:00 -
[197] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful? People are mad that somebody is making RL money from Eve and apprently CCP are cool with this when there not Look at the prices of items on the Chinese server where RMT is allowed and then develop your own opinion. |

Prince Kobol
2056
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:39:00 -
[198] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Then you are just as bad as all the other people going grr Somer and letting your hatred of Somer get in the way of rational thinking.
If Somer has indeed as they have stated been given permission by CCP to run this scheme then they have not broken any rules.
How can you blame a player for any action if they have first gone to CCP and then been given permission? Because they know full well that it's not allowed. Them being able to convince a frontline GM to say something he shouldn't doesn't change the policy CCP laid out and chucked at them last time they did this. This just shows that they want to continue RMT, and they will go to any lengths to do so. Undoubtedly they knew full well that CCP wouldn't let them continue this time round, but can make a mint off of the sales during this investigation period, and people like you saying "they did nothing wrong" are suggesting they should get away with it. If they just say "no Somer, we told you before, so stop it now!" and that's it, then they have once again managed to squeeze a bunch of RMT transactions through the system. At some point you have to turn around and take decisive action so they cannot and will not do it again, and to show others thinking of trying the same that it will not be tolerated.
Lets go with the assumption that Somer did indeed go to CCP first and CCP agreed.
First we have no idea whether it was a GM or whether it was somebody higher up who gave the go ahead.
Secondly, to presume that a GM would just give the go ahead without consulting anybody else consider what happened previously with Somer, and presuming that a GM is weak minded enough that they would let themselves be convinced doing something which is against the rules is insulting at best.
I am not sure why you have such a low opinion of the GM's, I personally think they do a great job. Sure they make the odd mistakes but they are human and we all make mistakes from time to time.
After what happened last time it would make sense that Somer approach CCP first. For all we know Somer and CCP have been discussing this for days / Weeks / Months.
You, Me and everybody else has no idea what discussions have taken place if any.
You can get your panties in a twist all you like but you can not change the fact that If Somer did indeed get the okay from CCP then your anger is completely misplaced. |

Prince Kobol
2056
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:40:00 -
[199] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful? People are mad that somebody is making RL money from Eve and apprently CCP are cool with this when there not Look at the prices of items on the Chinese server where RMT is allowed and then develop your own opinion.
I was just kidding, we all know why RMT is bad but the amount of butt hurt directed towards Somer and not CCP is laughable. |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
106
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:43:00 -
[200] - Quote
I talked with Somer last night and he said he got approval from CCP Legal department. It probably never went to GM or game design people, this is purely a legal issue. |
|

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4322
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:47:00 -
[201] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote: this is purely a legal issue. Or a matter for internal affairs.
Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1092
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:48:00 -
[202] - Quote
I appreciate all the genuine replies to my inquiry regarding why RMT is not good for the game.
You've turned me into a believer
+1 eve is dying |

Cherry Yeyo
52
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 15:52:00 -
[203] - Quote
So this is basically the same thing they did last year with a couple extra steps to bypass whatever the last ruling was, creating another GTC monopoly and pushing out other GTC retailers by offering perks no one else can match, correct?
All the while converting isk from inside EVE Online the game into real life income dollars. CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |

Prince Kobol
2056
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:01:00 -
[204] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:So this is basically the same thing they did last year with a couple extra steps to bypass whatever the last ruling was, creating another GTC monopoly and pushing out other GTC retailers by offering perks no one else can match, correct?
All the while converting isk from inside EVE Online the game into real life income dollars.
Kind off.
The part about offering perks no one else can match is not true as so far nobody else has tried this method. At the moment there is nothing to stop somebody doing exactly the same.
The rest is pretty much spot on. |

Cherry Yeyo
52
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:04:00 -
[205] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:At the moment there is nothing to stop somebody doing exactly the same Haha no one else has the liquidity of Somer after years of being promoted by CCP to pay more than Jita prices for a PLEX
CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |

Ms Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:06:00 -
[206] - Quote
Here's what you do: If your account is up on Somerblink, quit and don't ever do it again. If your account is down on Somerblink, quit and don't ever do it again.
Problem solved.
Also CCP, you had a CASINO button in station services back in 2003. Bring it back and put Somerblink out of business. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
604
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:07:00 -
[207] - Quote
POPCORN ANYONE
|

Archibald Thistlewaite III
551
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:09:00 -
[208] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote: POPCORN ANYONE 
Didn't you sell your character  |

Ritsum
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
284
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:10:00 -
[209] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:Here's what you do: If your account is up on Somerblink, quit and don't ever do it again. If your account is down on Somerblink, quit and don't ever do it again.
Problem solved.
Also CCP, you had a CASINO button in station services back in 2003. Bring it back and put Somerblink out of business.
mmm WiS Casino would be sweet. Play EvE how you want to play it and do not let others dictate how you play. Evolve your playstyle to protect yourself from others! Even in "PVE", "PVP" is there, lurking in the shadows. |

Tyrendian Biohazard
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
333
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:14:00 -
[210] - Quote
Ritsum wrote:Ms Forum Alt wrote:Here's what you do: If your account is up on Somerblink, quit and don't ever do it again. If your account is down on Somerblink, quit and don't ever do it again.
Problem solved.
Also CCP, you had a CASINO button in station services back in 2003. Bring it back and put Somerblink out of business. mmm WiS Casino would be sweet.
Who are you kidding. We know you're waiting on the WiS brothels. My twitch stream to help new players: http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51
|
|

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
604
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:15:00 -
[211] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:DNSBLACK wrote: POPCORN ANYONE  Didn't you sell your character 
No i was stop due to it being a EULA and TOS. What I should have done was sold it legally on the forums then RMT the isk using the plex system somer is showing us. I just have to find a third party plex seller to give me a cut of his profits. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
604
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:33:00 -
[212] - Quote
Honestly I am cheering for Somer this time. If this model is legal think of what the large isk holders in the game can do with it. This will open the door for groups like the Goons, PL,NC,Nulli to make real money for thier ship replacement program, rental empire and super cap sales. I tried to get Dotlan maps to run the same program by offering a plex memebers only section on his maps. Truly I am getting a huge laugh out of this.
The key element for for anyone to run the same program is to have a means of massing large pools of isk. You can do this in game or use a site like somer out of game. I am still waiting for the first **** site that offers membership using plex.
As for it being CCP approved. Speaking from first hand knowledge CCP has a problem in communication and the right hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. The fact the CSM wasnt informed speaks volumes to this truth. |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2665
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:38:00 -
[213] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:I am still waiting for the first pHorn site that offers membership using isk or plex.
As for it being CCP approved. Speaking from first hand knowledge CCP has a problem in communication
I can write on my 'adult entertainment' website CCP approved its content and encourages PLEXing membership but it won't mean they did and do.
Invalid signature format |

Prince Kobol
2056
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:39:00 -
[214] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Honestly I am cheering for Somer this time. If this model is legal think of what the large isk holders in the game can do with it. This will open the door for groups like the Goons, PL,NC,Nulli to make real money for thier ship replacement program, rental empire and super cap sales. I tried to get Dotlan maps to run the same program by offering a plex memebers only section on his maps. Truly I am getting a huge laugh out of this.
The key element for for anyone to run the same program is to have a means of massing large pools of isk. You can do this in game or use a site like somer out of game. I am still waiting for the first pHorn site that offers membership using isk or plex.
As for it being CCP approved. Speaking from first hand knowledge CCP has a problem in communication and the right hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. The fact the CSM wasnt informed speaks volumes to this truth.
I mostly agree.
IF CCP have deemed this to be legal then the only way to show them how wrong they are is for people to go to town with it. The more people / groups taking advantage of it the better.
As for the CSM not knowing about it, come on, you really think CCP runs everything by the CSM? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23944
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:44:00 -
[215] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:So this is basically the same thing they did last year with a couple extra steps to bypass whatever the last ruling was, creating another GTC monopoly and pushing out other GTC retailers by offering perks no one else can match, correct?
All the while converting isk from inside EVE Online the game into real life income dollars. Actually, it's the same thing they did last year with fewer steps and dealing directly with ISK rather than go the roundabout way of giving GÇ£store creditGÇ¥ that had to be checked out through the lottery system. In the old system they tried to hide it behind GÇ£oh, but we're just giving you bonus credits to gamble withGÇ¥. Now, they're trying to hide it behind GÇ£oh, but it's just a regular PLEX sale via contractGÇ¥. As if the direct connection between $$$-áto Somer and ISK to the customer would go away.
That's what makes it so baffling: it's even more blatant, direct, and obvious than the old system that got shut down.  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
684
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:44:00 -
[216] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: As for the CSM not knowing about it, come on, you really think CCP runs everything by the CSM?
If Falcon is to be believed (and I believe him) CCP didn't tell the CSM because most of CCP didn't know. I'm guessing random GM who didn't read the petition closely is the only guy who was in the loop here. |

Cherry Yeyo
52
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:45:00 -
[217] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:Here's what you do: If your account is up on Somerblink, quit and don't ever do it again. If your account is down on Somerblink, quit and don't ever do it again.
Problem solved.
Also CCP, you had a CASINO button in station services back in 2003. Bring it back and put Somerblink out of business. I've never had a blink account or played blink, but I also dont wanna play a game where theres greasy RMT deals going on either.
If we are meant to be able to make a real life income playing EVE Online then somebody setup a tutorial or walkthrough for that so I can get started! CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
687
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:46:00 -
[218] - Quote
I look forward to whatever I'm going to spend my thousands of irl dollars I make off Honest Retar Aveymones's Officially Not A RMT Operation Plex Sales and Kickbacks. |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4099
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:48:00 -
[219] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lets go with the assumption that Somer did indeed go to CCP first and CCP agreed.
First we have no idea whether it was a GM or whether it was somebody higher up who gave the go ahead. Well from CCPs and the CSMs response it seems like it was not widely discussed, so it's unlikely to have been a dev decision.
Prince Kobol wrote:Secondly, to presume that a GM would just give the go ahead without consulting anybody else consider what happened previously with Somer, and presuming that a GM is weak minded enough that they would let themselves be convinced doing something which is against the rules is insulting at best.
I am not sure why you have such a low opinion of the GM's, I personally think they do a great job. Sure they make the odd mistakes but they are human and we all make mistakes from time to time. No, you take it as an insult, and you suggest I have a low opinion of them, which isn't the case. I simply understand, like you have suggested, that GMs are human, and can be manipulated into making a mistake.
Prince Kobol wrote:After what happened last time it would make sense that Somer approach CCP first. For all we know Somer and CCP have been discussing this for days / Weeks / Months.
You, Me and everybody else has no idea what discussions have taken place if any.
You can get your panties in a twist all you like but you can not change the fact that If Somer did indeed get the okay from CCP then your anger is completely misplaced. So if it turns out they raised a petition, and a single GM said it was OK, you think Somer should just get away with it? They know full well it's not allowed, and you shouldn't be able to get away with disregarding the rules whenever you can convince a GM to say "that sounds fine".
It's strange that you would defend someone who is clearly engaging in RMT. You can say it's whining all you want, but they sell ISK for money. That's not allowed. They should be punished. End of story. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Cherry Yeyo
52
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 16:58:00 -
[220] - Quote
I would like to take this opportunity to introduce Cherry Yeyos House of Discount TimecodesGäó coming soon
I promise to pay more isk for your PLEX that you purchase from my referral link than Somer!
Markee Dragon contact me to get in on this action CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
|

Prince Kobol
2057
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:05:00 -
[221] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Well from CCPs and the CSMs response it seems like it was not widely discussed, so it's unlikely to have been a dev decision.
So the CSM didn't know.. shock, and so far only CCP Falcon has replied, also no disrespect to CCP Falcon but he is the EVE Community Manager, why would he know about this?
Also as many people have pointed about, we are talking about CCP here, communication is not their strong suite.
Lucas Kell wrote: No, you take it as an insult, and you suggest I have a low opinion of them, which isn't the case. I simply understand, like you have suggested, that GMs are human, and can be manipulated into making a mistake.
This is on the presumption that a GM was even involved. I do not why people seemed to think that any GM was involved on this matter. I mean you wouldn't even go via the petition system for this kind of thing.
Also as I said before, I give the GM's a lot more credit then you do. I do not believe that any GM would simply just okay this.
Lucas Kell wrote: ]So if it turns out they raised a petition, and a single GM said it was OK, you think Somer should just get away with it? They know full well it's not allowed, and you shouldn't be able to get away with disregarding the rules whenever you can convince a GM to say "that sounds fine".
It's strange that you would defend someone who is clearly engaging in RMT. You can say it's whining all you want, but they sell ISK for money. That's not allowed. They should be punished. End of story.
If this was the case, then yes I do because at the end of the day he was given the go ahead by somebody who works for CCP.
You can not punish a player acting on the advice given to him by somebody who was employed by CCP. To say that a player can be retrospectively punished for doing anything after a CCP employee has said it was okay is well quite frankly stupid.
If a player petitions to see if a certain activity is legal and a CCP Employee says yes, then you can not turn around x number of days later because of a few players out of 100,000's says it bad and then expect that player to be punished. Sure CCP can say actually we were wrong and that activity is no longer legal, but they can not punish the player, no matter who much you may hate him.
Your right, I do not agree with what he is doing, If CCP gave this the green light I think that this is a disgrace and to me shows me that CCP will do anything to earn a few extra quid and they have simply gone back to "greed is good" to do this shows a new level of desperation to try and earn a few extra bucks.
However, unlike you my issue is not with Somer in this instance. I say this because I am going on the presumption that he was given the green light by CCP. That is the most important aspect of this situation.
I couldn't care less if it was Somer, Goons, DNS Black or anybody else, that fact is as far as we are aware, CCP said this was okay. That is the Problem here. |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2665
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:08:00 -
[222] - Quote
Prince, contract all your assets to me, please. CCP totally said you should do it. Invalid signature format |

Prince Kobol
2057
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:10:00 -
[223] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Prince, contract all your assets to me, please. CCP totally said you should do it.
lol.. it wouldn't be worth very much, I am very poor  |

Rayo Atra
Aliastra Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:13:00 -
[224] - Quote
Play eve or dont
play blink or dont.
really that's the end of the conversation.
The idea that anyone cares is hysterical. Sound like ol water-cooler biddies at my work. Yipping full of conviction, on deaf ears. i mean 2 quadrillion isk lol. No idea what that turns into as far as plex sales, but i bet its enough to make a corporation not give a damn about self righteous, "its not fair!" people.
play or dont, and accept your fate. Tell you what I do like though: A killer. A dyed-in-the-wool killer. Cold-blooded, clean, methodical and thorough.
-Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
|

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2665
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:13:00 -
[225] - Quote
Doesn't matter, I cannot let CCP's approval go to waste. Do it, do it now! Invalid signature format |

Prince Kobol
2057
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:19:00 -
[226] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Doesn't matter, I cannot let CCP's approval go to waste. Do it, do it now!
Contract Up  |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2665
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:24:00 -
[227] - Quote
Oh no you didn't!
Frakk, he did...
WTF am I supposed to do with Helium Isotopes? Invalid signature format |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5805
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:28:00 -
[228] - Quote
So much stupid in this thread.
If it really bothers you then delete your Somer bookmark and go to therapy for your gambling addiction. The only reason Somer is able to do this in the first place is because of all you people that want to get something for nothing.
Stop using the site, FFS! Problem solved.
Mr Epeen  There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:38:00 -
[229] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So much stupid in this thread. If it really bothers you then delete your Somer bookmark and go to therapy for your gambling addiction. The only reason Somer is able to do this in the first place is because of all you people that want to get something for nothing. Stop using the site, FFS! Problem solved. Mr Epeen  It this thread bothers you then don't read it.
Stop commenting on this thread, FFS! Problem solved.
Ima Wreckyou  the Code ALWAYS wins |

Prince Kobol
2057
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:39:00 -
[230] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Oh no you didn't!
Frakk, he did...
WTF am I supposed to do with Helium Isotopes?
I haz a plan: I shall become isotopes tycoon and build my empire upon those 1667 units!
HA!
Lol.. told you I was poor |
|

Prince Kobol
2057
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:40:00 -
[231] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So much stupid in this thread. If it really bothers you then delete your Somer bookmark and go to therapy for your gambling addiction. The only reason Somer is able to do this in the first place is because of all you people that want to get something for nothing. Stop using the site, FFS! Problem solved. Mr Epeen 
Here is the thing, you do not have to gamble one isk to get your isk. There is no gambling at all involved this RMT enterprise. |

Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:41:00 -
[232] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:So much stupid in this thread. If it really bothers you then delete your Somer bookmark and go to therapy for your gambling addiction. The only reason Somer is able to do this in the first place is because of all you people that want to get something for nothing. Stop using the site, FFS! Problem solved. Mr Epeen  It this thread bothers you then don't read it. Stop commenting on this thread, FFS! Problem solved. Ima Wreckyou 
Does the letters R v B give you nightmares? |

Rayo Atra
Aliastra Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:44:00 -
[233] - Quote
" It this thread bothers you then don't read it.
Stop commenting on this thread, FFS! Problem solved.
Ima Wreckyou"
Nothing like some side step logical fallacy work to move things along.
It appears that CCP, Somer, and a decent amount of the community are voting with their wallets. Its the only kind of vote that counts. I'd guess once this knowledge settles in, the small groups of dissenters will generally scatter faster than CODE in a tourny environment Tell you what I do like though: A killer. A dyed-in-the-wool killer. Cold-blooded, clean, methodical and thorough.
-Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
|

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1175
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:45:00 -
[234] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Tippia wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Tippia wrote:Are they doing anything differently now compared to the variant that got smacked down a year ago? Short version: No Longer version: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Then report them for RMT and refer to the previous ruling. I petitioned the original scheme last October and the reply I got was, to paraphrase, that SOMER has not violated the EULA in any way, to their knowledge.
At the time you made your petition, my sig was in the EULA. They KNOW the rules were being broken. The is NO QUESTION. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4100
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:49:00 -
[235] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:If this was the case, then yes I do because at the end of the day he was given the go ahead by somebody who works for CCP.
You can not punish a player acting on the advice given to him by somebody who was employed by CCP. To say that a player can be retrospectively punished for doing anything after a CCP employee has said it was okay is well quite frankly stupid. Tell that to everyone who pushed for Erotica 1 to be banned. Prior to that case multiple petitions had been filed from both sides and scamming people and trolling them on teasmspeak was always allowed since it wasn't in game and the player could at any point disconnect. Cue a rage post, and rules get made then applied retroactively.
That said, this is slightly different, since there's no ambiguity, RMT is not allowed. If you give away isk and in return receive money, that's simply not allowed.
Prince Kobol wrote:Your right, I do not agree with what he is doing, If CCP gave this the green light I think that this is a disgrace and to me shows me that CCP will do anything to earn a few extra quid and they have simply gone back to "greed is good" to do this shows a new level of desperation to try and earn a few extra bucks.
However, unlike you my issue is not with Somer in this instance. I say this because I am going on the presumption that he was given the green light by CCP. That is the most important aspect of this situation.
I couldn't care less if it was Somer, Goons, DNS Black or anybody else, that fact is as far as we are aware, CCP said this was okay. That is the Problem here. I don't disagree that I CCP sanctioned it then they are at fault and will lose a lot of faith for that. But at the same time, it's clearly an act of RMT. People shouldn't even be trying to engage in that, since it's highly damaging to the game, and if they do, they should be punished, no matter who they are. If this was the first time, then fair enough, benefit of the doubt and all that. But it's not. Swing that banhammer and make sure they, and anyone else considering it, gets the message.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:53:00 -
[236] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:[Does the letters R v B give you nightmares? That's a bit off topic, but I am just looking for a legit was to make real $ from the billions they payed us. Please cry about this in the other thread, thx the Code ALWAYS wins |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5805
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 17:54:00 -
[237] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:So much stupid in this thread. If it really bothers you then delete your Somer bookmark and go to therapy for your gambling addiction. The only reason Somer is able to do this in the first place is because of all you people that want to get something for nothing. Stop using the site, FFS! Problem solved. Mr Epeen  Here is the thing, you do not have to gamble one isk to get your isk. There is no gambling at all involved this RMT enterprise.
Where do you suppose they got the trillions of liquid ISK to overpay for PLEXes with?
If it weren't for the pathetic dweebs that blow all their ISKies on rigged lottos, none of this would be happening now. Somer as a business would not exist.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
145
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:01:00 -
[238] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Where do you suppose they got the trillions of liquid ISK to overpay for PLEXes with? If it weren't for the pathetic dweebs that blow all their ISKies on rigged lottos, none of this would be happening now. Somer as a business would not exist. Mr Epeen  You don't need a lot of ISK if the ratio is 19$/1bil ISK as mentioned elsewhere on this thread. The issue has nothing to do with SOMERS lottery. There are a lot of other players ingame who sit on heaps of ISK and they would gladly jump on such a ISK->$ mechanism if this was legit. the Code ALWAYS wins |

Prince Kobol
2059
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:06:00 -
[239] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Tell that to everyone who pushed for Erotica 1 to be banned. Prior to that case multiple petitions had been filed from both sides and scamming people and trolling them on teasmspeak was always allowed since it wasn't in game and the player could at any point disconnect. Cue a rage post, and rules get made then applied retroactively.
That said, this is slightly different, since there's no ambiguity, RMT is not allowed. If you give away isk and in return receive money, that's simply not allowed.
E1 was never banned retrospectively or for any in game activity. He was banned because he posted the recordings of those who he scammed in order to humiliate them, plan and simple. As far as CCP was concerned, he broke the EULA/TOS in regards to harassment. Yes you can argue that those rules are vague, yes you can argue that it happened out of game, however he was not banned retrospectively.
Lucas Kell wrote: I don't disagree that I CCP sanctioned it then they are at fault and will lose a lot of faith for that. But at the same time, it's clearly an act of RMT. People shouldn't even be trying to engage in that, since it's highly damaging to the game, and if they do, they should be punished, no matter who they are. If this was the first time, then fair enough, benefit of the doubt and all that. But it's not. Swing that banhammer and make sure they, and anyone else considering it, gets the message.
Of course people are going to try and engage in RMT, just like people will always push the rules to breaking point and will happily break rules.
You can not have a game like Eve and not expect people to break the rules and try and get away with it.
Even if CCP made it so that if you are caught involved in RMT you will receive a lifetime ban on all of your accounts, people will still do it.
You can not say that if you approach CCP with an idea and they consider it to be a method of RMT that you will banned. If anything you want to encourage people to go to CCP in the first instance to see if their idea is okay. In this instance it appears that this is the case.
|

Rayo Atra
Aliastra Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:07:00 -
[240] - Quote
Mostly i enjoy being on the other side of an argument, and i enjoy crapping on what people feel strongly about, and enjoying the look on their faces when they realize in almost any environment, how they "feel" about something is usually irrelevant. In real life this is terrible, in eve it is appropriate.
Rules are meant to be broken by people with great ideas. :]
Really though, i do take issue with "rigged" and "losing all the iskies"
I am currently 928.75% ahead of my initial investment over the last 12 months. Tell you what I do like though: A killer. A dyed-in-the-wool killer. Cold-blooded, clean, methodical and thorough.
-Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
|
|

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5808
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:09:00 -
[241] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Where do you suppose they got the trillions of liquid ISK to overpay for PLEXes with? If it weren't for the pathetic dweebs that blow all their ISKies on rigged lottos, none of this would be happening now. Somer as a business would not exist. Mr Epeen  You don't need a lot of ISK if the ratio is 19$/1bil ISK as mentioned elsewhere on this thread. The issue has nothing to do with SOMERS lottery. There are a lot of other players ingame who sit on heaps of ISK and they would gladly jump on such a ISK->$ mechanism if this was legit.
CODE LOL!
Shouldn't you be learning how to shoot things that shoot back or something? Or have you bailed out of the AT completely?
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
146
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:15:00 -
[242] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Shouldn't you be learning how to shoot things that shoot back or something? Or have you bailed out of the AT completely? Out of arguments? Are you mad? Was there an Antimatter incident involved? Just remember the CODE always wins and please cry about this topic in the relevant thread, you don't have to derail this one with your tears. thx the Code ALWAYS wins |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4100
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:18:00 -
[243] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:E1 was never banned retrospectively or for any in game activity. He was banned because he posted the recordings of those who he scammed in order to humiliate them, plan and simple. As far as CCP was concerned, he broke the EULA/TOS in regards to harassment. Yes you can argue that those rules are vague, yes you can argue that it happened out of game, however he was not banned retrospectively. Which wasn't against the EULA/ToS. Technically, it still isn't. the EULA/ToS does not extend beyond the bounds of the game, and people post things ALL the time to humiliate people. Not to mention that the other people involved in producing and recording that (afaik, E1 didn't even record or post it) were not banned. He was banned after the fact, with even the victim calling for him to be left alone. THAT was a witch hunt. A guy RMTing, getting told to stop, then RMTing again is certainly not.
Prince Kobol wrote:Of course people are going to try and engage in RMT, just like people will always push the rules to breaking point and will happily break rules.
You can not have a game like Eve and not expect people to break the rules and try and get away with it.
Even if CCP made it so that if you are caught involved in RMT you will receive a lifetime ban on all of your accounts, people will still do it.
You can not say that if you approach CCP with an idea and they consider it to be a method of RMT that you will banned. If anything you want to encourage people to go to CCP in the first instance to see if their idea is okay. In this instance it appears that this is the case. If they don't get banned, all that shows is that if you can come up with a convoluted way to run RMT, then the rules don't apply to you and it doesn't matter that the act of RMTing itself is against the rules. That's really not the type of thing I would expect to see from a serious MMO developer. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4103
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:27:00 -
[244] - Quote
Rayo Atra wrote:Really though, i do take issue with "rigged" and "losing all the iskies"
I am currently 928.75% ahead of my initial investment over the last 12 months. You realise that being rigged doesn't mean noone ever wins from the system, right? They run shill accounts, accounts that take credit out of the excess pool. These accounts will win more often than the average player, then extract that isk. If previous claims are to be believed, they then RMT the isk from some shill accounts, burning the shill account in the process and maintaining a degree of separation.
Actual players being actual winners are a requirement, as that's how they sell themselves. Amusingly they show the total isk won vs total deposited to confuse the idiots into thinking they've won more than they have, since they reinvest their winnings, so a 100m deposit might win billions of isk, yet only pay out 80m, since it was cycled. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5808
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:32:00 -
[245] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:E1 was never banned retrospectively or for any in game activity. He was banned because he posted the recordings of those who he scammed in order to humiliate them, plan and simple. As far as CCP was concerned, he broke the EULA/TOS in regards to harassment. Yes you can argue that those rules are vague, yes you can argue that it happened out of game, however he was not banned retrospectively. Which wasn't against the EULA/ToS. Technically, it still isn't. the EULA/ToS does not extend beyond the bounds of the game, and people post things ALL the time to humiliate people. Not to mention that the other people involved in producing and recording that (afaik, E1 didn't even record or post it) were not banned. He was banned after the fact, with even the victim calling for him to be left alone. THAT was a witch hunt. A guy RMTing, getting told to stop, then RMTing again is certainly not. Prince Kobol wrote:Of course people are going to try and engage in RMT, just like people will always push the rules to breaking point and will happily break rules.
You can not have a game like Eve and not expect people to break the rules and try and get away with it.
Even if CCP made it so that if you are caught involved in RMT you will receive a lifetime ban on all of your accounts, people will still do it.
You can not say that if you approach CCP with an idea and they consider it to be a method of RMT that you will banned. If anything you want to encourage people to go to CCP in the first instance to see if their idea is okay. In this instance it appears that this is the case. If they don't get banned, all that shows is that if you can come up with a convoluted way to run RMT, then the rules don't apply to you and it doesn't matter that the act of RMTing itself is against the rules. That's really not the type of thing I would expect to see from a serious MMO developer.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people try to draw parallels between a sick psychopath and a clever businessman. Still, it's scrapping the bottom of the desperation barrel.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Prince Kobol
2060
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:35:00 -
[246] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Which wasn't against the EULA/ToS. Technically, it still isn't. the EULA/ToS does not extend beyond the bounds of the game, and people post things ALL the time to humiliate people. Not to mention that the other people involved in producing and recording that (afaik, E1 didn't even record or post it) were not banned. He was banned after the fact, with even the victim calling for him to be left alone. THAT was a witch hunt. A guy RMTing, getting told to stop, then RMTing again is certainly not.
As far as CCP were concerned what he did was against the EULA/TOS. Sure they are vague and can be interpreted a number of different ways, but they are meant to be like that for a reason.
That is why he was not banned after the fact. It could only be after the fact if CCP changed the EULA/TOS in a direct response to what he did and as far as I am aware, they haven't.
I do agree that it was a witch hunt and as much as I dislike the guy, he should not of been banned. The right course of action would of been for CCP to speak to him and tell him that he could continue with his in game activities but not to post the recordings.
I must admit I do find it slightly ironic you talking about a witch hunt when this thread is also starting to be a witch hunt as well.
Lucas Kell wrote: If they don't get banned, all that shows is that if you can come up with a convoluted way to run RMT, then the rules don't apply to you and it doesn't matter that the act of RMTing itself is against the rules. That's really not the type of thing I would expect to see from a serious MMO developer.
Once again, you can not ban somebody when you have given him permission. The part you keep missing is that if Somer is to be believed, he was given the okay by CCP. What you should of written is
"all that shows is that if you can come up with a convoluted way to run RMT and get CCP's permission"
It is total crap but it is 100% CCP's fault. I would be totally against any player receiving any type of punishment when CCP have given them clearance simply because you are setting one hell of a precedent.
I have never heard of any developer ever punishing a player when they have explicitly told them the action they are taking is okay.
Of course if this isn't the case and CCP did not give him the okay then they better had ban all of his account and confiscate everything on all those accounts including any wallet he has access to. |

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
148
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:35:00 -
[247] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people try to draw parallels between a sick psychopath and a clever businessman. Still, it's scrapping the bottom of the desperation barrel.
Yes, Ero was a clever businessman and a talented show master. But it is a bit far fetched to call the SOMER guys psychopaths the Code ALWAYS wins |

Prince Kobol
2060
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:42:00 -
[248] - Quote
The thing is Mr Epeen, which ever way you swing it, its RMT. Sure it maybe a great idea, but it is still RMT.
Now apparently CCP do not think so which I completely disagree with.
The problem is it now it gives a license to anybody with a large amount of isk, of which there is plenty, to effectively RMT it all.
Its a dream come true to the likes of Goons, PL. NC.Dot and many individuals who have trillions of isk in their wallets to turn it into RL legitimately. |

epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
1065
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:42:00 -
[249] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Shouldn't you be learning how to shoot things that shoot back or something? Or have you bailed out of the AT completely? Out of arguments? Are you mad? Was there an Antimatter incident involved? Just remember the CODE always wins and please cry about this topic in the relevant thread, you don't have to derail this one with your tears. thx
Other people just seem to have a different definition of winning, poor deluded fools
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |

Dr Bluntman
Automata Labs
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:48:00 -
[250] - Quote
Gambling is bad anyway |
|

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4104
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 19:03:00 -
[251] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people try to draw parallels between a sick psychopath and a clever businessman. Still, it's scrapping the bottom of the desperation barrel. Everyone that trolls people in a game is a sick psychopath. True story bro.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Cherry Yeyo
53
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 19:11:00 -
[252] - Quote
Dr Bluntman wrote:Gambling is bad anyway Gambling is a treatable addiction just like diabetes, alcoholism or schizophrenia. The people that prey upon gamblers and their weaknesses are the scum of the earth. Talking about casinos and websites like Somer Blink. Shameful CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
688
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 19:15:00 -
[253] - Quote
Quote:My take? If CCP is actually going to allow players to offer bonus isk kickbacks to purchase PLEX from a given affiliate, then they should just throw the gates open and dispense with all the tortured casuistry - the new Somer 'plex credit' scheme is a fig leaf that everyone can see through. Also, this new policy should be available to every player, not a CCP-granted monopoly which Somer lucked into due to various devs enjoying isk gambling too much. I'm sure that the blocs could do a better job than Somer in a heartbeat, and we'd be absolutely delighted to get in on this action. http://themittani.com/content/mittens-mailbox-blinky-battlemints
well that's sure interesting |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4105
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 19:18:00 -
[254] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:As far as CCP were concerned what he did was against the EULA/TOS. Sure they are vague and can be interpreted a number of different ways, but they are meant to be like that for a reason.
That is why he was not banned after the fact. It could only be after the fact if CCP changed the EULA/TOS in a direct response to what he did and as far as I am aware, they haven't.
I do agree that it was a witch hunt and as much as I dislike the guy, he should not of been banned. The right course of action would of been for CCP to speak to him and tell him that he could continue with his in game activities but not to post the recordings.
I must admit I do find it slightly ironic you talking about a witch hunt when this thread is also starting to be a witch hunt as well. Well rules didn't exist, or more accurately, the rules explicitly excluded third party services. Then CCP made a post that it's no allowed, then he was banned... Seems pretty retroactive.
In this case, no matter what other facts there are, this is RMT. The only way it could be a witch hunt is if RMT was allowed, which clearly it isn't. Are you saying it is? Even is someone at CCP gave misinformation, the fact is still that RMT is against the rules.
Prince Kobol wrote:Once again, you can not ban somebody when you have given him permission. The part you keep missing is that if Somer is to be believed, he was given the okay by CCP. What you should of written is Sure you can. They can ban whoever they want. And I literally don;t care who said it was OK. It's RMT. That is simply not OK.
Prince Kobol wrote:It is total crap but it is 100% CCP's fault. I disagree. RMT is never OK. The end. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Indahmawar Fazmarai
2717
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 19:26:00 -
[255] - Quote
Chribba wrote:No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.
/c
And this is exactly as low as CCP can fall to players' eyes. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |

Anslo
Scope Works
7075
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:18:00 -
[256] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Chribba wrote:No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.
/c And this is exactly as low as CCP can fall to players' eyes.
Confirming that **** is going down when Chribba is taking a jab. Holy crap 
|

Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
110
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:23:00 -
[257] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers.
Since apparently you weren't talking about the afternoon of August 18, which date should we expect? Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |

Anslo
Scope Works
7075
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:24:00 -
[258] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers.
Since apparently you weren't talking about the afternoon of August 18, which date should we expect?
Why give a deadline for a response that'll be a rushed product when you can take your time to craft a logical response based on all the facts? I'd rather wait and get quality then rush just to get something.
|

Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:27:00 -
[259] - Quote
For the SECOND time now.....
We will see if CCP does more than talk this time around. Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |

Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
110
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:27:00 -
[260] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Why give a deadline for a response that'll be a rushed product when you can take your time to craft a logical response based on all the facts? I'd rather wait and get quality then rush just to get something. I'd rather get a quality response as well, but my experience from the Alliance Logo thread leads me to believe that it's more likely we'll get no response at all. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
|

Anslo
Scope Works
7075
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:28:00 -
[261] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Anslo wrote:Why give a deadline for a response that'll be a rushed product when you can take your time to craft a logical response based on all the facts? I'd rather wait and get quality then rush just to get something. I'd rather get a quality response as well, but my experience from the Alliance Logo thread leads me to believe that it's more likely we'll get no response at all.
I dunno dude vOv they said they're working on it, not much more they can rush. While CCP has issues responding to crap like this, I agree, Eve's player base can be pretty demanding at times. Unrealistically so.
|

TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
265
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:29:00 -
[262] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Chribba wrote:No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.
/c And this is exactly as low as CCP can fall to players' eyes. Confirming that **** is going down when Chribba is taking a jab. Holy crap 
CCP, you really needs to step up. Chribba just took a jab at you! That's like a Jedi saying someone deserved to be raped.
Honestly, I am looking for a new game, might buy a $40 ship in Star Citizen to see what it's like. Too much ****** up around here. I love Eve, but damn so much is just wrong and being boring on top does not help.
It is time to drop the "will not tell other players about issues", we want you guys to be open. we want to know why they are able to do what they do, we want to know why they get what they do. I want my free **** too! |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1132
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:33:00 -
[263] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote: Honestly, I am looking for a new game, might buy a $40 ship in Star Citizen to see what it's like. Too much ****** up around here. I love Eve, but damn so much is just wrong and being boring on top does not help.!
Can I have your stuff? |

Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:40:00 -
[264] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, I'm just dropping a blue barred post in this thread, so that you know that we're not ignoring you. I'm speaking with people internally to find out what's up with this, and myself and CCP Leeloo have already sat down this morning with the CSM for a preliminary meeting about what's gone on here. I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers. Sorry for the silence thus far, but I was only made aware of this late last night. I'll have more for you guys once I'm up to speed  - F
Was community consulted about this at all ahead of time?
|

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4106
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:40:00 -
[265] - Quote
Final Fantasy 14 is pretty good :D And console! Woop woop! *waits for trolls* The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|

Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1099
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:41:00 -
[266] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, I'm just dropping a blue barred post in this thread, so that you know that we're not ignoring you. I'm speaking with people internally to find out what's up with this, and myself and CCP Leeloo have already sat down this morning with the CSM for a preliminary meeting about what's gone on here. I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers. Sorry for the silence thus far, but I was only made aware of this late last night. I'll have more for you guys once I'm up to speed  - F Was community consulted about this at all ahead of time?
He said he was just made aware of it late last night. What exactly did you expect to be consulted on? eve is dying |

Anslo
Scope Works
7077
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:42:00 -
[267] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:He said he was just made aware of it late last night. What exactly did you expect to be consulted on?
All of my this.
|

TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
265
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 20:58:00 -
[268] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Final Fantasy 14 is pretty good :D And console! Woop woop! *waits for trolls*
played it for 2 months, not my type of game, i love sandbox games where you are not grinding for gear. Eve you can play for 4 years, you still use Tech 1 stuff. I will stay with eve until some other game comes along that is actually worth it.
Anyways to keep this on topic, I hope CCP does something to Reinforce a positive standing with the player-base. I hope for Eve, i really do, but 10 years makes it an old dog and bad rep is not helping. |

Qalix
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
303
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 21:06:00 -
[269] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Final Fantasy 14 is pretty good :D And console! Woop woop! *waits for trolls* played it for 2 months, not my type of game, i love sandbox games where you are not grinding for gear. Eve you can play for 4 years, you still use Tech 1 stuff. I will stay with eve until some other game comes along that is actually worth it. Anyways to keep this on topic, I hope CCP does something to Reinforce a positive standing with the player-base. I hope for Eve, i really do, but 10 years makes it an old dog and bad rep is not helping. in eve you don't grind for new gear, you grind to keep repurchasing the old gear. six in one hand, half dozen in the other. |

Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 21:16:00 -
[270] - Quote
Thanks for posting this OP.
DNSBLACK are you going to do version 2 of your lottery if CCP rules this as fair and acceptable to the ToU and legal stance on RMT? -- Fang |
|

Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
889
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 21:26:00 -
[271] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Chribba wrote:No worries, even if CCP decides this is wrong and tells Somer to stop, I'm sure they'll give them some unique ships as a consolidation for lost revenue. I mean CCP can't let Somer go empty handed out of this, that would just be wrong.
/c And this is exactly as low as CCP can fall to players' eyes. Confirming that **** is going down when Chribba is taking a jab. Holy crap  Confirming Chribba is right with his sarcastic undertones.
CCP have a proven track record of continually letting their playerbase down with poor decisions and bad communication and yet once again they demonstrate the inability to adapt or change.
I wouldn't even say the playerbase is surprised, just disappointed once again.
How many times do CCP want or need to show blatant favouritism towards a third party entity?
One or two eggs going "off" in a basket is acceptable, but when the majority of the basket seems to be "rotting" then you know that something is indeed wrong. Concord Approved Trader |

Wollari
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
76
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 21:28:00 -
[272] - Quote
Just my 2 cents copied from twitter
Quote:Players should choose the affiliate link based on which site they want to support, not where they could get the best revenue.
Quote:The moment players choose their affiliate link for GTCs based on best revenue the system is broken and it hurts all 3rd party sites
IMHO the new developer license should be updated and get an additional point: The player should not get any benefits by using a service that creates revenue for the developer (click on banner ads, affilate links, etc). DOTLAN EveMaps-á| Your out-of-game map, navigation toolset, sov database, etc. since 2008 |

Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
195
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 21:52:00 -
[273] - Quote
Here is my opinion (whether you want to hear it or not):
1. I don't mind using youtube although a bunch of video stars gets rich from this. 2. I don't mind watching streams on twitch though some people can make a living from it. 3. I would really not mind if some people got rich through EVE although they don't work for CCP. (they could do it by uploading great EVE videos on youtube or streaming a famous roaming channel or whatever on twitch anyway)
What would really not be cool was if CCP enforced the EULA on different players in different ways. Confronted with ever new fringe cases made up from the ever creative EVE community, they are really in trouble. If they really sanction this, a lot of people will copy it.
I believe that the only way to permanently get rid of these issues would be to have some mechanism that allows people to somehow burn their ISK for real cash. (e.g. CCP buying back PLEXes)
Of course, people will argue that PLEX prices would then ultimately would go through the roof... but, who knows? Maybe a lot of new players would be attracted by the news that you can make a real fortune by blowing up pixel spaceships. And maybe new players tend to buy more PLEXes since they are not yet as spacerich as the vets?
More players for EVE, some cash for the vets and more revenue for CCP... sounds too good to be true, hm? |

Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
1046
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:06:00 -
[274] - Quote
If you guys weren't addicted to gambling blink would have never gotten this far. You know the real problem!
(I'm being facetious, hope any RMT stuff is prevented.) |
|

ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
171

|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:14:00 -
[275] - Quote
A few gentle reminders:
Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
Quote:23. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
Quote:27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
A few off topic posts have been removed. Please stay on topic and be respectful. Thanks! ISD Decoy Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|

Tiberius Zol
27
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:16:00 -
[276] - Quote
I had in mind that everyone, involved in rmt would be banned. The active part permanent, the passive for just a time. How can it be, that Somer is doing this the second time and it's still one of the richest (in my mind) player here? Other player involved in some smaller offense were banned for lifetime and lost all their stuff forever..
Why the double standards? |

Clolo
Origin. Black Legion.
23
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:26:00 -
[277] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, I'm just dropping a blue barred post in this thread, so that you know that we're not ignoring you. I'm speaking with people internally to find out what's up with this, and myself and CCP Leeloo have already sat down this morning with the CSM for a preliminary meeting about what's gone on here. I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers.Sorry for the silence thus far, but I was only made aware of this late last night. I'll have more for you guys once I'm up to speed  - F
I think it's a little past afternoon time (guessing Iceland time) and no update. Even a "i didn't get enough information from the team, we're still working on it", would have been a good a good response. |

Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
195
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:26:00 -
[278] - Quote
Tiberius Zol wrote:I had in mind that everyone, involved in rmt would be banned. The active part permanent, the passive for just a time. How can it be, that Somer is doing this the second time and it's still one of the richest (in my mind) player here? Other player involved in some smaller offense were banned for lifetime and lost all their stuff forever..
Why the double standards?
Because A) technically no one except Somer and Marquee Dragon will ever know whether Somer got indeed real money. It could be sort of a RMT-like scheme, but no one can prove it. B) if it is designed to trade ISK for real cash, then it's very carefully designed to NOT violate the EULA, because each individual step of the whole thing is perfectly ok. You advertise someone else's website. You pay more than market value in ISK for some PLEXes. What's wrong with that? (a LOT of people advertises this in Jita Local :-D) |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11112
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:26:00 -
[279] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers. Well it's almost 10:30 PM in Reykjavik... No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
605
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:34:00 -
[280] - Quote
Belinda HwaFang wrote:Thanks for posting this OP. DNSBLACK are you going to do version 2 of your lottery if CCP rules this as fair and acceptable to the ToU and legal stance on RMT? -- Fang
1. Would sell DNSBlack properly on the forums and according to CCP rules.
2. Find a third party willing to give me a cut for plex references.
3. Run the Somer Plex Contract model as much and as often as I can until the isk is gone. I may eve scam a few people along the way just cause I can cause CCP is not over seeing this program. If the conversion is correct at 1 bil = 19 dollars then my isk and charcter may net me around 5000 dollars.
4. The key to you being able to do this is based on your isk pool. If you liquidate everything to isk you can RMT it.
The sad part is we are currently having our eve world cup and yet again we have a player who hasn't been trending for the last year get a lot of free advertising by the player base. He is exploiting the good will of our community and CCP. If he is doing this with CCP approvel "Kati Bare the Door" Alex is licking his chops and will do it much better then Somer. If Somer is found in violation then, we can only hope that CCP ends his playing days and takes the isk pool away and begins to manage the game rules equally.
What I find sad is this is a community issue and by Falcons response he was not in the loop. If he was and didn't inform the CSM then egg on his face. If he wasn't then there is another CCP employee going to get his ass chewed for hanging him out to dry. |
|

DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
189
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:43:00 -
[281] - Quote
Currently discussing this on www.eve-radio.com Live on Eve Radio Sundays 18:00 GMT with me & friends blabbering on about Eve and stuff-áFollow me on twitter http://twitter.com/WigglesGRN, like me on facebook http://facebook.com/wigglesGRN Or check the show page http://show.gamingradio.net
|

Lord BryanII
38
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:44:00 -
[282] - Quote
I don't see where any rule was broken. Can Somer not buy back the PLEX? |

Cherry Yeyo
53
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 22:55:00 -
[283] - Quote
Lord BryanII wrote:I don't see where any rule was broken. Can Somer not buy back the PLEX? Last year when they were going all in with this rmt stuff the ruling was: you may not offer in game incentives to entice people to use your referral link vs. another
Now they are offering the in game incentive of: we will buy your plex for 30m more than whatever Jita is paying if you use our referral link- which generates affiliate fees for Somer (real life money US Dollars) and lots of it CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |

Qalix
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
303
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Posted - 2014.08.18 22:56:00 -
[284] - Quote
Clolo wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, I'm just dropping a blue barred post in this thread, so that you know that we're not ignoring you. I'm speaking with people internally to find out what's up with this, and myself and CCP Leeloo have already sat down this morning with the CSM for a preliminary meeting about what's gone on here. I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers.Sorry for the silence thus far, but I was only made aware of this late last night. I'll have more for you guys once I'm up to speed  - F I think it's a little past afternoon time (guessing Iceland time) and no update. Even a "i didn't get enough information from the team, we're still working on it", would have been a good a good response. I don't think they ever actually posted their final response to the previous Somer incident. It was all reported second hand. |

Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3766
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Posted - 2014.08.18 22:57:00 -
[285] - Quote
I guess CCP needs the revenue... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4106
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:10:00 -
[286] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:Because A) technically no one except Somer and Marquee Dragon will ever know whether Somer got indeed real money. It could be sort of a RMT-like scheme, but no one can prove it. B) if it is designed to trade ISK for real cash, then it's very carefully designed to NOT violate the EULA, because each individual step of the whole thing is perfectly ok. You advertise someone else's website. You pay more than market value in ISK for some PLEXes. What's wrong with that? (a LOT of people advertises this in Jita Local :-D) A. We know they do, that's how the affiliate program works. It's not a secret. B. All they've done is add extra steps to make a convoluted method of trading isk for cash. It doesn't stop it being RMT, and if it did, it would just open up the floor to a flood of isk sellers. This was demonstrated last time they did it. If you need to see a good explanation of what they do, you can do so here.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5336
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:17:00 -
[287] - Quote
What's this like once a year now? Bring back DEEEEP Space! |

Alastair Ormand
Running With Scissors. Apocalypse Now.
76
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:19:00 -
[288] - Quote
People are earning an income by selling stuff? Shocking! We can't have this!!!! Don't run with a stick in your mouth.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3422
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:23:00 -
[289] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:Tiberius Zol wrote:I had in mind that everyone, involved in rmt would be banned. The active part permanent, the passive for just a time. How can it be, that Somer is doing this the second time and it's still one of the richest (in my mind) player here? Other player involved in some smaller offense were banned for lifetime and lost all their stuff forever..
Why the double standards? Because A) technically no one except Somer and Marquee Dragon will ever know whether Somer got indeed real money. It could be sort of a RMT-like scheme, but no one can prove it. B) if it is designed to trade ISK for real cash, then it's very carefully designed to NOT violate the EULA, because each individual step of the whole thing is perfectly ok. You advertise someone else's website. You pay more than market value in ISK for some PLEXes. What's wrong with that? (a LOT of people advertises this in Jita Local :-D)
B) is not accurate.
If I buy a single unit of Tritanium from someone for ten billion ISK, and I select who to buy that Tritanium from based upon RL money changing hands, I'm an RMT seller and my account should be permabanned.
No ifs, no buts.
Jita trade offers (both 'honest' bad deals and 'dishonest' actual scams) do not involve RL currency changing hands, or the provision of RL services*.
* - there are exceptions for some RL services that are EVE-related like killboard hosting; if it's not a KB hosting, voice comms server, website hosting or EVE news article writing, ask GM permission before even discussing it with a client. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
384
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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:29:00 -
[290] - Quote
Down with Somer Blink.
Bunch of scammers. |
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CCP Falcon
7986

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Posted - 2014.08.18 23:45:00 -
[291] - Quote
Hey guys,
Cheers for the patience on this.
I've dropped a new thread on general discusion here, with a prelimiary response in it. I can't give a huge amount of detail right now, but hopefully we'll have something more for you soon.
Locking this thread to take discussion over to the announcement thread.
Cheers,
- F CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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