Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction...

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

Its a multiplayer game, dimbulb

The rewards are greater when you take more risk

More team-mates means more risk, you saavy?

If you dont want to play with others, theres plenty of single player space games out there.

I highly recommend any of the X series except Rebirth.

Meh.

From my perspective, it just makes sense if you want to get the job done right, that you do it with other people.

I don't really see CCP forcing anyone to do anything in particular. Your choice.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing.

also,
Why do you think this?
I use alts to facilitate my efficiency as part of a larger group, to essentially be two people in a group, not to replace anyone .
Everyone I know who dose this will have a similar reason.

You are totally missing the point which is there is a large portion of the player base that doesn't want to deal with name callers like yourself.

I have been scammed one too many times to see things this way. I am guessing as well you never had to wait a week to get some cynos lit because the guy who did it was in another time zone. when you wait for others you are paying CCP for nothing.

Maximum efficiency is you doing everything yourself at your own pace and in your own time

Out of my entire point, the one you fixated on was the one where I suggested I was doubtful of your intellect?

Sir, I call a spade a spade. If you stopped being so over-sensitive and read the rest of the reply, and could concentrate on answering what exactly is wrong with my own supposition, I could actually try to understand your point of view.

As it is, you seem to want EvE to stop being an MMO and become a single player game, and seem to be suggesting that the majority of people agree?

Is this a true reading of your OP?

I stopped reading or caring what you had to say after the name calling started. If you want to edit your post and try again I might as well.

You can-¦t avoid multiplayer aspects in a purely multiplayer game.

Plus if you are smart or just an average character, you won-¦t be scammed...

May not be able to avoid but can minimize interactions.

No it isnt

Otherwise the production line would not have replaced the craftsman in general manufacturing.

Why?

Meh.

From my perspective, it just makes sense if you want to get the job done right, that you do it with other people.

Here you go with the naughty words taken out;

The rewards are greater when you take more risk

More team-mates means more risk, you saavy?

If you dont want to play with others, theres plenty of single player space games out there.

I highly recommend any of the X series except Rebirth.

Ramona's Log SuppleMental: Why should those of us who like flying in attack wings in PvE and PvP bow to what loners want?

"Got a 10/10, anyone wanna come?"

"Sure, let me just get ship/fit ship/take dog out/feed baby/change the spare tyre....."

"Never mind.......*signup new account*"

When people could solo sites by orbiting beacons in frigs and getting pay days what risk was there really? More risk means more reward is just CCP catch phrase that actually isn't even true. There are all sorts of activities you can do in this game that are zero to little risk that have high pay outs.

I don't want to play other games, I like EVE I just don't want to be told non stop that I need to play with others, or have changes put in place that force me to have to. Essentially CCP is being you mom telling you to go play with the other kids when the other kids have behavioral issue like being compulsive liars, kleptomaniacs, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Sure they are people too just doesn't mean I have or want to be their friends.

i dont know if MMO is the key word here

Because you I don't want to deal with other people?

Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

What is the payout for the activity you have quoted? (Operating in Militia Space lowsec where there are other militia ships as well as pirates operating?)



Have you tried X? It has pretty much everything EvE has without the other people to interact with.

And what things are you being prevented from doing on your own?

then why are you playing the game that's famously driven by player interaction in literally every facet.

then why are you playing the game that's famously driven by player interaction in literally every facet.

Wrong.

Burner missions are entirely optional and there is no standing loss for declining them.

Also, obligatory Eve is a multiplayer game. Sure its a sandbox, but stop complaining when someone comes and throws sand in your face because you want to play alone.

Because MMO companies just don't seem to learn.


Might be because they want to lose more subscriptions.




Basically it comes down to this, if you have content that people can join in with but do not have to join a group to do it then more people seem to be happier with that. Warhammer Online was a good example with their RvR (realm v's realm), yes I know it's a dead game now but it wasn't because of the RvR, but more because of the uneven realm populations.

Forcing people to group to do content just doesn't work because, there's a lot of players that won't join corps/guilds anymore for various reasons. So if content becomes more group orientated all it will do is push more people away from the game.

It's a sandbox, developers shouldn't try to push players into playing the way they want them to play.


As for those that keep saying it's an MMO you should have to group, you're still living in the stone age . MMO communities are much more varied these days.

What I do is my own business and I'm not here to discuss ISK/hour. I am not trying to quantify anything, You are trying to make the point that more risk is more reward and I am saying no and even if it does it doesn't matter because I don't care. I just want to be able to play the game how I want to and how it is fun for me. My point is I don't think CCP should be investing time and resources in trying to push people together when they really don't want to be. It just creates bad feelings and bad Karma.

Driven yeah, but you don't have to group to play it. But if new content is all group orientated then those that don't group will just feel that their subscriptions are not wanted.

Plus it's not easy to group with this game, just finding a good corp is hard enough. Especially as corps in this game are so fussy and nosey.

In any alliance I have ever been in the majority of people do not get into fleets they just keep ratting or mining or if forced to it will log off. No one really wants to do fleets even the people that go to them.

Maximum efficiency is you doing everything yourself at your own pace and in your own time, thereby replacing the need for anyone, just saying.

I have been scammed one too many times to see things this way. I am guessing as well you never had to wait a week to get some cynos lit because the guy who did it was in another time zone. when you wait for others you are paying CCP for nothing.

No, what Im trying to do is have an informed discussion about the point that you brought up.

In order for you to convince people of your point of view, you need to support your suppositions with evidence, at least anecdotal evidence, otherwise no one has any reason to see how you came to your conclusion.

You can say you don't care what others think of your supposition all you like, but then why announce your point of view in a public forum if you dont want to either discuss the pros and cons of it, or convince others to support your cause?

What exactly is your purpose in suggesting somehting that the majority clearly dont believe in in the first place?

Are you so unsure of your position and your original supposition that you are unwilling to provide anything at all to support your point of view?

If so, then please do, I want to hear why you think that it is the way it is, and if its compelling, perhaps you will have me and others support your case.

If not, then it would be polite to back down with some dignity.

That is more indicative of the alliances you've been in. Another way of reading this thread is you need to be more careful about the people you choose to play with.

At worse case minority or people don't want all of these PVP corp or alliance interactions. You don't think these people deserve to have their views respected?

Now you are just being wordy for the sake of being wordy and trying to complicate something simple.

At worse case minority or people don't want all of these PVP corp or alliance interactions. You don't think these people deserve to have their views respected?

Now you are just being wordy for the sake of being wordy and trying to complicate something simple.

At worse case minority or people don't want all of these PVP corp or alliance interactions. You don't think these people deserve to have their views respected?

Burner missions are an example of a larger problem attitude that CCP has.

I am not complaining about sand being thrown in my face I am saying that CCP shouldn't be trying to force me to throw sand in someone else's face and trying to make me think I will some how enjoy it.

http://www.kadeshi.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=184272

I'm sure that guy is happy you were all there to help him. Look at all his "friends" who whored on the kill as well.

First of all, and I mean this in regard to post #34, you're completely nuts.

Second of all, they encourage multiplayer gameplay because this is an MMO, the second M stands for Multiplayer.

Pretty much the only way you can genuinely play an MMO wrong is by trying to bury your head in the sand and play it like a single player game. If you want that there are plenty more games out there that are happy to enable antisocial behavior.

And with all the solo games out there, why are these people thick skulled enough to play an MMO, where they cant do much alone, when they can be king of the world in some solo game. Seem to me they need to study the word MMO for a bit and find out what the 2 M's stand for... Why join a game and want to change it, just to annoy the people that already play and enjoy it, instead of just going with a solo game from the start?

I have been scammed one too many times to see things this way. I am guessing as well you never had to wait a week to get some cynos lit because the guy who did it was in another time zone. when you wait for others you are paying CCP for nothing.

Is a purely market trader playing the MMO in the way that you are thinking? I would say no.

In fact I would say a market trader playing against one of the many market bots in Jita is probably about as far removed from your idea of what an MMO is.

Of course there are going to be interactions, that is inescapable, all I am saying is CCP needs to not be trying to force me to have more interactions then I want to have or feel comfortable having.

all I am saying is CCP needs to not be trying to force me to have more interactions then I want to have or feel comfortable having.

No Im not. And I will not be drawn into insulting you because you don't want to read what I have written.

The majority of people who play EvE DO operate in Corps and Alliances and DO fleet up.

That is simply a fact and you can deny it if you like, but you are deluded or misled if you actually believe this.

Is a purely market trader playing the MMO in the way that you are thinking? I would say no. In fact I would say a market trader playing against one of the many market bots in Jita is probably about as far removed from your idea of what an MMO is. Of course there are going to be interactions, that is inescapable, all I am saying is CCP needs to not be trying to force me to have more interactions then I want to have or feel comfortable having.

I am not saying you can't play the game how you want. I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.

Because AI's are too predictable, solo games feel empty.

People that solo in MMO's still interact with others they just don't join corps/guilds/gangs. Even having other people running around helps breath life into a game. There's a lot of solo MMO players around.

I solo most of the time, reasons being, been in player corps/guilds didn't like the way they run. Also when I play a game I don't want to have to play it the way someone else wants me to play or have someone following me around nearly all the time. Plus in groups you seem to spend so much wasted time just waiting for them to get organised. I don't even use voice software because of all the crap people speak, which I don't really want to listen to.

I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.

Those two sentences mean the same thing.

You want group content taken away from other people because you don't want to do it yourself.

Your entitlement is appalling.

I just want to be able to play the game how I want to and how it is fun for me.

No I want CCP to take a more balanced approach. Sorry if you don't think I should be valued as a customer just as much as you.

I am pretty sure CCP's numbers indicate otherwise. In fact there have been whole patches dedicated to trying to get people out of high sec and in low and null.

You are also framing this in an us versus them fashion. I am not saying you can't play the game how you want. I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.

I also do not think it is fair for anyone to be making the argument that this is how the game is and you started to play so now you can't try and shape it in a way that you want it to be. I mean any bittervet could use that as an argument to not change anything ever.

And I dont think its fair that you should be able to shape it to your way without supporting your opinion with examples, citations or evidence for why you think it needs changed.

all I am saying is CCP needs to not be trying to force me to have more interactions then I want to have or feel comfortable having.

No I want CCP to take a more balanced approach. Sorry if you don't think I should be valued as a customer just as much as you.

I guess that is your opinion. I disagree. I find people in this game to be predictable in their back stabbing and why that is why I prefer a more solo experience.

EVE doesn't exactly foster a good community spirit, but I guess it's not designed to.

EVE doesn't exactly foster a good community spirit, but I guess it's not designed to.

You are so wide of the mark with this you aren't even wrong.

I'm talking about the community as a whole, not individual alliances.

That's a different matter.

It's a problem with EVE as backstabbing seems to be a way of life here. There's more paranoia in this game because of it.

EVE doesn't exactly foster a good community spirit, but I guess it's not designed to.


But AI's are certainly more predictable than people, even people that you think are predictable can surprise you sometimes.

Counter story -- some of my best contacts in this game are from these "back-stabbers" you speak of.
Granted, I don't trust them ultimately, but there's enough trust that we can get stuff done.

For example, I run an excellent unadvertised third party service, I have absolutely zero negative transactions.

but I bet if I talked to people, I could find ways to squeeze even more performance out of them ...

Well, you have to be Amarr for that. And it's less "talking" and more "forcing them into drug dependence to do your bidding".

EVE is pay to win after all.

Like, whipping the crew to make them work faster?

I imagine that's what "Overheat" is for Amarr ships.

Just read the OP and skipped to the end.

Two things,

1. Never tried them yet but from what I hear, it sounds like the risk doesn't properly match the reward with these missions. In other words, they're not worth doing.

2. You hit the nail on the head with alts. These will encourage the use of alt accounts. EVE is pay to win after all.

Yeah, fine, that ...


I mean stuff like "replace the DCU II with the M4, and you'll get just enough CPU freed up to fit [this other module] that gives enough resists to offset the loss from the DCU, and you still end up higher than with the DCU II"

I understand these words individually, but in this order they make no sense

2. You hit the nail on the head with alts. These will encourage the use of alt accounts. EVE is pay to win after all.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

Now you are just being wordy for the sake of being wordy and trying to complicate something simple.

At worse case minority or people don't want all of these PVP corp or alliance interactions. You don't think these people deserve to have their views respected?

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

That is poor customer service.

I'd say

PLEX is a form of pay-to-win, makes it easy to buy ships/skill books/implants although somewhat limited by what skills your character has trained.

Buying ready made characters via the bazaar is a form of pay-to-win.

Multiple accounts is also a form of pay-to-win, for obvious reasons, even CCP acknowledges this with their power of two adverts.



They're the only ones I can think of though.

Or y'know you can just make friends.

Im still having difficulty with this "win" concept you are talking about

Alts > real people in almost all PVE apart from incursions.

With real people the rewards are halved. With alts you get all rewards after the alt pays for itself. (In fact the alt is accruing value that can be sol on the bazaar later).

The only way to win an MMO is to fulfil your own personal goals.

I'd say

PLEX is a form of pay-to-win, makes it easy to buy ships/skill books/implants although somewhat limited by what skills your character has trained.

Buying ready made characters via the bazaar is a form of pay-to-win.

Multiple accounts is also a form of pay-to-win, for obvious reasons, even CCP acknowledges this with their power of two adverts.



They're the only ones I can think of though.

If you PLEX your accounts, then the reward is halved as well.

Only if you make < 2 PLEX a month, which you really shouldn't be. One decent DED site a month make it worthwhile.

If the alt is trained in AFKtar it can pay for itself while you pvp.

If you really enjoy real people rather than alts in PVE you should be hassling CCP to pull their finger out and do it right, because they aren't right now.

Wait, didn't OP have a thread a couple days ago saying that he hates people?

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

You don't even know what "PvP" means,
so you have no ground to have an opinion in the first place.

Someone kick that noob!

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

Seriously OP had this same diarrhea story a few days ago.

Also, his main interaction seems to be on the forums, so maybe leaving the forums would be a good step in your solo play agenda.

This is a multiplayer game. Even if you don't embrace the multiplayer aspect, other players want to work together for greater rewards. When it's just as easy to make X ISK/hr solo as it is with a group, then group play becomes a burden. This is the current state of mission PVE and CCP is trying to address that.

There's nothing wrong with not liking to play with other people, and there's not even anything wrong with wanting to solo an MMO like EVE. Just don't expect to have all the same opportunities as the group players do.

I know that killing capsules in high sec with suicide fits is pvp but... meh.

Nonsense, I play 15 bucks a month to play this game. According to crying white women on TV, that's enough money to feed several poor tropical countries for months AND adopt a homeless dog, but instead of feeding poor people I give my money to some Iceland guys so they damn well better give me everything I want despite the fact that I can't be arsed to ::effort:: for any of it!

And just like that, I summed up how every carebear in existence views EVE. You all are welcome.

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

I will start taking you and your blabla seriously,
as soon as you show even a tea spoon full of intelligence in your posts.


So ... never.

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

What on earth is a burner mission?

It's what people get when they are in the Navy and their ship docks in Bangkok.

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

The rewards are greater when you take more risk

More team-mates means more risk, you saavy?

I'd say

PLEX is a form of pay-to-win, makes it easy to buy ships/skill books/implants although somewhat limited by what skills your character has trained.

Buying ready made characters via the bazaar is a form of pay-to-win.

Multiple accounts is also a form of pay-to-win, for obvious reasons, even CCP acknowledges this with their power of two adverts.



They're the only ones I can think of though.

That's pretty much it.

Sure you can earn enough isk to plex your accounts however I see that as earning your "win" (term used loosely).

That means there is no P2W by the way. Paying doesn't offer any advantage over not paying, and if you're not getting any GÇ£winGÇ¥ for your GÇ£payGÇ¥, it can hardly count as P2W.

Anything you can pay for you can be had without paying for it. In fact, in order for you to be able to pay for it, it must already be available without paying for it because that's how the stuff in question comes into existence. At no point are you able to skip any mechanics or circumvent the normal order of production. All you can do is sponsor other players' game time in the hope that they'll give some of their earnings back to you.

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

EvE is a PvP game.

Getting out there in your ship fighting other people's ships (one of the ways to PvP in EvE) is considered practice/experience. Under normal circumstances, a person gets better the more they practice (the more experience they gain).

Person A practices the entire time they are online. Let's say 3 hours a night. They spend the entire time practicing because they just buy plex and sell it in game for the isk they need to afford practicing.
Person B practices only 1 hour a night because the other 2 hours is spent grinding isk to afford practicing.

Someone being able to practice 3 hours a night has an absolute advantage over someone who is only able to practice 1 hour a night.

Therefore person A was able to buy an advantage.

The "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" is a complete strawman

GǪand no amount of paying for it lets you win over the other player. Well, maybe if you count paying him off, but I think he'll call that a win on his end rather than on yours.

But it wasn't an advantage he bought.
It's an advantage he spent time on.

What you're describing is the exact opposite of P2W and the very reason why EVE isn't a P2W game. PLEX is not even remotely a requirement for what you describe GÇö that part is pure nonsense. What you need is time, not ISK. Selling PLEX does not let you skip over the time investment needed to win. If anything, you are giving away time by using PLEX the way you're describing: you're giving other people time that they can use on improving rather than doing it yourself.

That's a good reason why you shouldn't try to use it as an argument, then. vOv

Lining it out doesn't make it untrue.

But I could use a good laugh to so please explain who person A "spent time" on the advantage.

Oh and it was you who used "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" within your argument.

GǪand no amount of paying for it lets you win over the other player. Well, maybe if you count paying him off, but I think he'll call that a win on his end rather than on yours.

But it wasn't an advantage he bought.
It's an advantage he spent time on.

What you're describing is the exact opposite of P2W and the very reason why EVE isn't a P2W game. PLEX is not even remotely a requirement for what you describe GÇö that part is pure nonsense. What you need is time, not ISK. Selling PLEX does not let you skip over the time investment needed to win. If anything, you are giving away time by using PLEX the way you're describing: you're giving other people time that they can use on improving rather than doing it yourself.

That's a good reason why you shouldn't try to use it as an argument, then. vOv

No, but you're reading it backwards: I crossed it out because it isn't true. PLEX isn't even remotely a factor in how much you can train (wellGǪ at least not on the PLEX seller side GÇö the buyer obviously gets 30 days of play time which helps in letting them hone their skills). If you believe otherwise, you are not actually training, but pointlessly wasting money and not learning from your repeated mistakes.

GÇ£Person A practices the entire time they are online. Let's say 3 hours a nightGÇ¥ GÇö those are your exact words. Person A spent time on the advantage s/he has. That's all the advantage is: experience acquired by spending the required time.

No amount of PLEX spent will give you more time or more experience.

Oh and it was you who used "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" within your argument.

You are totally missing the point which is there is a large portion of the player base that doesn't want to deal with name callers like yourself.

I said

"Sure you can earn enough isk to plex your accounts however I see that as earning your "win" (term used loosely)"

For which you replied

"That means there is no P2W by the way"

Since I was saying that it's possible take more time to get the same results

So you say no advantage has been purchased.

Two new players
Player 1 just has 1 account and doesn't buy PLEX.
Player 2 buys an additional account, on that second account he buys a 25 Million sp character from the bazaar. He also buys 6 PLEX.

So Tippia, you're saying Player 2 has no advantage over player one?

No, you crossing it out is simply you dismissing it. It still remains

What I was talking about (that you simply ignored since you couldn't refute it) was selling the plex on the market to get isk now vs spending hours playing the game to get the same amount of isk.

"Person A spent time on the advantage s/he has" LOL that was a good laugh. Certainly you can't be referring the the "advantage" I've been talking about all along? What advantage are you talking about?

So you must agree then that person A has a time advantage only made possible by selling a plex on the eve market.

Wrong and you even stated it above.

None that come simply from paying for it, no.

All 3 are being purchased via additional funds to the first subscription.

I don't care how many skillpoints you have in game, it's knowledge that makes a winner and a loser in EVE Online.

Someone buying a character in their first week won't help them at all if they don't know what to do with it.

So ok, from what you're saying gold ammo wouldn't be pay-to-win either. After all you're saying it's not what you use it's how you use it.

Although a player with a character with 25 million sp who has been playing for a week is going to do well against another character that's been playing for a week even with no experience.

So ok, from what you're saying gold ammo wouldn't be pay-to-win either. After all you're saying it's not what you use it's how you use it.


I don't agree with you on that of course in respect to what is pay-to-win. But yeah, experience does count.

Although a player with a character with 25 million sp who has been playing for a week is going to do well against another character that's been playing for a week even with no experience.

Well I disagree with you there.

PLEX you would buy, you have to sell them on the in-game market to convert them to isk (which isn't hard to do)

A character from the character bazaar, would come from isk generated by additional PLEX.

You're making a category error so big, that I am having trouble believing that you aren't just trolling.




And is going to get his ass handed to him by a player who has played through all 12.5 million of his own skillpoints, let alone against a veteran.

So, since I've been called a lot of psychological terms as an attempted insult by people on this forum, I figure I might take it up myself.

The OP is exhibiting antisocial personality disorder, with a side of persecution complex.

Did I do it right?

This is what happens when people try to pay to win.

[
You can-¦t avoid multiplayer aspects in a purely multiplayer game.

The issue is that you can circumvent multiplayer aspects by having a set of alts, because they are not a unique players, hence there is no multiplayer interaction.

The player who spends 3 hours training gets 3 hours worth of experience. PLEX does not alter how much time you can spend training.

No, what you were talking about was...[quote]

Stop right there, I stated what it is I was talking about plain and clear. I would know better than you what it was I was talking about since, you know, I'm the one talking about it.

[quote] I simply agree that a person with 3 hours worth of training has an advantage over one with only 1 hour. PLEX is not what makes that possible.

Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.

Because it's a multi player game.
And you are the content.

Plex absolutely does alter how much time can be spent practicing pvp. When you need isk to fund your PvP, time spent grinding PvE is time that could've went toward practicing PvP. Buying plex and selling it for 700m - 800m takes all of what? 10minutes tops? How many hours of PvE would it take to acquire that much isk? Well, those hours could've went to practicing PvP instead.

EvE is a PvP game.

Getting out there in your ship fighting other people's ships (one of the ways to PvP in EvE) is considered practice/experience. Under normal circumstances, a person gets better the more they practice (the more experience they gain).

Person A practices the entire time they are online. Let's say 3 hours a night. They spend the entire time practicing because they just buy plex and sell it in game for the isk they need to afford practicing.
Person B practices only 1 hour a night because the other 2 hours is spent grinding isk to afford practicing.

Someone being able to practice 3 hours a night has an absolute advantage over someone who is only able to practice 1 hour a night.

Therefore person A was able to buy an advantage.

The "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" is a complete strawman and does not invalidate the P2W concept. In fact, it's because of such a statement that it becomes P2W. If it took the same amount of time regardless if you pay or do it in game, then it would not be P2W as there wouldn't be any advantage to doing it one way over the other. So if person A had to sit in station for 2 hours in order to turn that plex into isk, and if person B could earn the same amount of isk in two hours as person A does by selling the plex, then it would not be a P2W situation as neither one gets an advantage.

That's the whole point behind plex though. The fact you can sell it for isk in a fraction of the time it would take you to go out and earn that isk in game. If this advantage didn't exist, then there wouldn't be any point to even sell plex in the first place.

.....In order for you to convince people of your point of view, you need to support your suppositions with evidence, at least anecdotal evidence, otherwise no one has any reason to see how you came to your conclusion.....

....What exactly is your purpose in suggesting somehting that the majority clearly dont believe in in the first place?....

#1. "EVE is a pvp game" is used here in such a way that it suggests 'ship v ship' combat. When people say EVE is a pvp game, they mean that EVE is a game of interaction and much of that interaction is conflict. For example, As an explorer I 'pvp' against every other explorer as I endeavor to find valuable items then trade those items for other things (like isk). Same with market pvp, competition between builders and such.

#2. The above quoted post seems suppose that there are only 2 ways to get isk, 'grinding' or buying plex. It's as if the various totally passive isk generation methods don't exist at all lol. Very many PVPrs I know use these passive methods in order to spend all their time PVPing. In fact, it's only a foolish PVPr that 'grinds' anything, shooting rats or rocks are the poor man's way of earning isk.

PLEX offers zero benefit over and above smart game play, where as in a p2w game paying trumps EVERY other possible advantage.

Even the gold ammo in WoT (which is considered P2W) gets trumped by smart game play. Comparing one to the other is not a proper comparison.

Plex absolutely does alter how much time can be spent practicing pvp.

Stop right there, I stated what it is I was talking about plain and clear.

Thanks for agreeing with me with that first sentence.

You know that saying that "practice makes perfect"? The person who can spend more of their game time practicing PvP will become the better player at PvP.

Not in the slightest, actually. Nothing PLEX offers makes any difference in how much time you have. Again, your entire idea rests on the nonsensical notion that you need vast amounts of ISK to practice.

GǪand you were wrong. Fancy that. It's called moving the goal posts and it's a bad thing. I don't care what you were thinking about. I care about what you actually said.

You know that saying that "practice makes perfect"? The person who can spend more of their game time practicing PvP will become the better player at PvP.

I must have missed something. What content that you can easily do solo did they remove?

It doesn't need to be "vast" amounts of isk. It simply needs to require isk.

Time spend earning isk in game (any amount) is time not PvPing.

Don't confuse your incapability to grasp the message with me not stating what I was thinking.

Not "training" if you mean character training. Practicing.

Which has everything to do with selling Plex for isk. For most, it'll cost isk to replace lost ships and fits (and maybe even implants) when PvPing.

Essentially CCP is being you mom telling you to go play with the other kids when the other kids have behavioral issue like being compulsive liars, kleptomaniacs, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Sure they are people too just doesn't mean I have or want to be their friends.

ccp figured out solo players are more likely to quit the game is why

I am not complaining about sand being thrown in my face I am saying that CCP shouldn't be trying to force me to throw sand in someone else's face and trying to make me think I will some how enjoy it.

Why does a corp need to have my full API? Only reason really is so they can track and know everything about me. You get into some of these corporation and they turn out to either be right wing bible thumpers or left wing nuts. You disagree even a little with them and they are holding you and your assets hostages. Have you ever been stalked in game because you didn't agree with someone's views on health care or gun control in the USA? Not a fun place to be in.

Oh, it's not about that. It's about them having the sheer, unmitigated gall to offer something to a playstyle that isn't semi afk solo PvE.

The nerve. Wrath and outrage and rabble!

nonsense...

Why do people buy plex to sell on the market?

Why do people buy plex to sell on the market?

well sure it is. The only way CCP could really force players to work together would be to remove content that could be done solo. As far as I can tell the soloable content is just as viable as it was last week.

Generally, to get ISK.

Why would they do that when they can get it both passively and actively just by playing the game?