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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Praenor
Eve University
The Big Blue
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:29:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Praenor on 27/07/2006 23:30:41
 Originally by: Tuxford
Scared? Scares the crap out of me too, and tbh I rather like more the indirect approach now. But anyway lets not derail this thread, on that just keep in mind that standard fleet ranges might not always be at +200km.
Tuxford requesting that a thread titled "Tuxford fooled us" not be derailed 
I, for one, am looking forward to the new ships!
And, yeah, a nerf of sensor boosters, or whatever will fix fleet ranges.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:56:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
What would be the point of the Tempest? It would be an inferior AC and Arty boat.
Tempest will almost always out damage the Maelstrom and it will use less ammo so its better for long term engagements.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Ketrin
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Posted - 2006.07.28 01:45:00 -
[183]
OMG NOT OLD AND NOT VALID!
/me shoots himself in the right leg pinky
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Cohkka
LoneWolf Mining
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.07.28 01:46:00 -
[184]
Appart from the Rokh I think the tier 3 ships are pretty much halfarsed, tbh. Tuxford had the option to introduce a new tier 1 or a tier 2 ship (bigger = better?, I don't think so). With the additional slot he's now trying hard to not make them overpowered and the other BS obsolete. What happened is that, appart from the Rokh, these ships didn't create any new niches, instead they do the jobs of the lower tier BS.
I mean, why do Gallente need a new Blasterboat if Megathron could do it either when the problems with cap and agility were fixed in first place? Why do Minmatar need an... is it an AC or an Artilery boat(?)... if the Tempest can do both? And why do Amarr need the Abaddon if they can do the same for much less isk with the Apoc and Geddon?
Yes, I'm pretty much frustrated about the "creativity" of our Devs...
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
GPerson
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.28 03:30:00 -
[185]
I have just one question. Where the frick are you guys getting all these detailed stats?
~
I highly recommend drunken posting. |
Vera Nosfyu
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 03:47:00 -
[186]
Some come from the dev blog. Relating to bonuses and such. Everything else is just hearsay and conjecture. And how we forum junkies love our hearsay and conjecture.
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"Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin |
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 06:20:00 -
[187]
Originally by: GPerson
I have just one question. Where the frick are you guys getting all these detailed stats?
Mine point of view comes str8 from the dev blog. Maelstron gets 1 RoF bonus and 8 turrets which will be out damaged by the 6 on teh tempest and its RoF and Damage bonus.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Ishana
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 07:16:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: GPerson
I have just one question. Where the frick are you guys getting all these detailed stats?
Mine point of view comes str8 from the dev blog. Maelstron gets 1 RoF bonus and 8 turrets which will be out damaged by the 6 on teh tempest and its RoF and Damage bonus.
That's not actually what Tux said.
Quote:
but Maelstrom's 8 turrets do outdamage Tempest's 6 turrets. When we factor in the two high slots that Tempest has it does outdamage the Maelstrom.
Which means that the Maelstrom doesn't outdamage the Tempest ONLY when the Tempest uses it's 7th and 8th slot for launchers. (probably cruise or siege)
BUT in fleet fights hardly anyone uses those slots for cruise or siege, so the Maelstrom actually does outdamage the Tempest in that role. (it also has a lot higher alpha strike)
Now in an AC situation the Tempest can outdamage the mealstrom, but I suspect that the Maelstrom's superior tank would make up for that.
Also the Maelstrom has an extra midslot, which could lead to people fitting an extra gyrostab in their lows, because they can use a mid for say a tracking computer instead of a tracking enhancer.
Also note that the Maelstroms drone bay is 25m3 larger then the Tempest, so it could take an additional heavy drone with it.
Overall I'd say the Tempest will become obsolete... 
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Gariuys
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.28 07:31:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Tuxford
I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them.
It's a revered EVE tradition, Tuxford. I'm glad you appreciate it.
Been happening for going on ( however long the testserver exists )
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Gariuys
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.28 07:35:00 -
[190]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Tuxford
I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them.
I think your blog is more reason to panic, and thats very recent. You don't need outdated stats to tell you they'll be replacing certain ships entirely, and screwing up fleet combat even moreso.
Now that is something else entirely. And I kindoff agree.
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 07:48:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Ishana
Which means that the Maelstrom doesn't outdamage the Tempest ONLY when the Tempest uses it's 7th and 8th slot for launchers. (probably cruise or siege)
BUT in fleet fights hardly anyone uses those slots for cruise or siege, so the Maelstrom actually does outdamage the Tempest in that role. (it also has a lot higher alpha strike)
come again? Tempest alphastrike has an equivalent of 7,5 turrets, while maelstroms aplhastrike has an equivalent of 8 turrets. Thats 0,5 turrets more or 6,25% higher alpha strike. Fo me thats not alot sorry :/
Also keep in mind that you have to actually have to be able to fire a full volley, to gaina higher alphastrike. Which often you wont be able to. (target dies too fast to get a full volley off, or lag for instance)
In this case the Tempest will the better sniper do to the higher dmg modifier of a single gun.
also the tempest has 2 free highslots for antitacklerdefense or additional dmg with cruise (higher dps than mael then)
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Millennium
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Posted - 2006.07.28 08:27:00 -
[192]
That is with BS lvl 5 which is a pretty big assumption in the first place.
I realize that a lot of people have that, but a lot MORE people have it at lvl 4. At lvl 4 the alphastrike of the Maelstrom is 11% higher than that of the Tempest. I think that's quite a bit for a ship that isn't supposed to obsolete the Tempest.
Then if you play with fittings a bit you can find out that the Maelstrom has room for a third Gyro whereas a fleet fitted tempest generally has only two and the Tempest' cards get worse and worse.
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Melkor Bloodaxe
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 08:28:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Melkor Bloodaxe on 28/07/2006 08:30:45
Tux,
We, Matari fanatics from TEAM Minmatar, are working on a serious proposal for a good and balanced Maelstrom. We however have one question: Do you and your fellow devs have a specific role in mind for the Mael? This way we can design it for such a purpose, so that we do not come up with an AC-platform while you had an Arty-boat in mind, or vice versa...
whaa it keeps eating my post...
____
"Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?" -HippoKing-
TEAM MINMATAR
- In Rust We Trust - |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 08:37:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
That is with BS lvl 5 which is a pretty big assumption in the first place.
I realize that a lot of people have that, but a lot MORE people have it at lvl 4. At lvl 4 the alphastrike of the Maelstrom is 11% higher than that of the Tempest. I think that's quite a bit for a ship that isn't supposed to obsolete the Tempest.
Then if you play with fittings a bit you can find out that the Maelstrom has room for a third Gyro whereas a fleet fitted tempest generally has only two and the Tempest' cards get worse and worse.
i give you that BS 4 argument for newer players, but balancing is still done around max skills, also i had 3 gyros on my fleetfitted tempest in 90% of the cases if not more, cant comment tough if 2 or 3 is more common in general
(besides we dont know the final fitting stats for mael yet so its hard to say if it would have room for 3 gyros)
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.07.28 09:39:00 -
[195]
6 med sltos for shield tanking is bad, but 3 max targets?? come on, my inty can handle more then that!
- It is much more efficient to talk to yourself in person than via the chat system.
Now imagine the unimaginable |
Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 10:31:00 -
[196]
fleettempest has 3 guyros 
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Ishana
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:43:00 -
[197]
Even so the point is that a mael could fit an additional gyro over the tempest. (so if you're using 3 on a Tempest now, you could probably use 4 on the mael)
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Angeldust
G.O.T.H.I.C
Omega Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.28 12:28:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: HippoKing
Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet?
If we're going for direct range nerf like frigates 1, cruisers 1.5 and battleship 2, then Rokh wouldn't really be the longest ranged ship would it  , Then again we might not do it anyway and it needs massive massive amount of testing.
Tbh, I do not think the Rokh is the problem with range, nor are the BS ranges, but long-range T2 ammo is.
T2 ammo needs a redesign in general, and range is one of the major parts of this.
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Corey Grim
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.26 23:36:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Corey Grim on 26/09/2006 23:38:59
Edited by: Corey Grim on 26/09/2006 23:37:23
Maelstorm is gonna be the most "crappy" of new tier 3 BS¦s by the looks of it, other way around it might be the most versatile also for you might fit it easily with long or short range. at least i hope that they do not add any "module bonuses" to it coz that would restirict its use (and when have minmatar¦s bigger ships have been restiricted ? )
Theres a couple of layouts + bonuses how it can compete the other tier 3 ships.
1. 8/6/6
5% tracking bonus per bs lvl
5% Rate of fire per bs lvl
about same amount of shields and armor so it can shield tank or armor tank and are not restiricted to other.
about 20 - 40 m/s more speed and about as light/versatile as typhoon. compared to other tier 3¦s a little weaker total hp.
little higher sensor resolution than other tier 3¦s
i think that setup would be usable in fleet fights as well in close range, it performs good in long range coz of tracking bonus + quite huge alpha strike.
it performs good in close range coz of its quite nimble and and can fit some ew and still armor tank effectively, it needs those "ew slots" coz encountering any nos based ships would screw things up without those.
number 2 would be the one that CCP implements i doubt it will be crap but i doubt it will be anything compared other tier 3¦s too.
mods: sorry for late posting in this thread but seems this is the one tux reads/readed and didnt want to start new one just coz of this.
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OrangeAfroMan
Suffoco Noctis
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.09.26 23:58:00 -
[200]
Thread... necromancy... head... hurts.....
Gronsak is Tux's angry alt. |
Corey Grim
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.27 00:05:00 -
[201]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Thread... necromancy... head... hurts.....
nice you have something usefull to say. i dont think i would call 2 months thread necromancy, especially now that kali 1 MIGHT hit the test server in couple of weeks.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.09.27 01:27:00 -
[202]
a bit necro even imo but anyway....
the ships where quite intensively discussed with graphs, speculation and much more...
problem of mael will be that close range it will have not enought mids to fit a decent tank
1 cap recharger, 1 scram, 1 webber and you have just 3 mid to shield tank (and a slow ship)
in gang it can work but so a tempest and probably will be even a bit more efficent (and cheap)
mael will have a better tank but it will be less fast/agile and quite vulnerable to nos.
consider in fact that a tempest do almost the same damage than a mael with 6 guns so 2 high slots are free for noses or even cruise for more dps, a mael will be forced to use all its 8 guns to be on par with a tempest damagewise.
we also don't know what is the drone capacity if more, equal or less than a tempest.
also for close range personally i prefer the phoon even if low pg and split weapon systems (bad bad bad) penalize a bit the ship.
also the new gallente ship will be especially designed to fight in close range so i will expect it to OMGWTFBBQ the mael (expecially considering that it will be probably quite slow compared to gall ship)
rokh will also have the same versatility of the mael if not more, with the ability to go even with a (probably strong) passive tank and good dps (better than a blasterthon)
for long range imo there is not much to say, if stats will be similar to the ones we suppose the rokh will simply outperform every other fleet ship, not to say if in future weapon range will be nerfed.
the new amarr BS imo can be another veeeeery good ship, expecially as damage suppor in mid and long range combat... but it can also turn out to be quite crappy... we will see.
so imo with the stats we suppose the mael will be a poor ship compared to the other 3, expecially caldari and maybe amarr.
and generally a ship too similar to the tempest that don't give clear benefits over the old minnie BS.
just my opinion of course and on stats not finalized and in part supposed.... we will see in some week
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.09.27 01:48:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: Tyler Lowe
I'm just pointing out that ship stats are not the only thing that may change. The relative importance of low vs mid slot may have changed, espescially with regard to specific ships and their roles. To say that a mod will just as easily fit on a ship with one less low isn't entirely true.
In a nutshell: It's pointless getting upset before you see the whole thing.
This is actually an excellent point. Some other channges will come in when the battleships come in. For exemple I've mentioned somewhere that we are looking at ECM, we're also looking into a range reduction, whether that will be by direct or indirect means is not for sure yet, but I hope we will stop seeing every ship with a +200km range. Also there is the new system scanning.
So you see there are a lot of interlinking features which you can't really connect properly together without "hands on" experience. Hopefully we will get SISI soon to play around with these new tweaks and features.
But, But, I have train caldari rails since I was born. Range is the only thing we have going for us.
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Blitzkrieg
The Older Gamers
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.27 03:07:00 -
[204]
So basically, in order to please the mass flying raven mission boats and bring a gun plateform to the caldaris, the devs had to create the tiers 3 bs.
Right, makes sense on a marketing stand point.
They could have tried a little harder to make the other 3 race tiers 3 bs a little less useless, as it is obvious the Minmatar and Amarr bring almost nothing to the plate 
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Roxanna Kell
Holy Jihad
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Posted - 2006.09.27 03:15:00 -
[205]
EVE is W**k , how the hek can a cerberus have more cargo space than the minmatar tier 3 Battleship.
Stats are so unbalanced. if is this got something to do with cap chargers.
jsut give the gadamn cap chargers bigger volume and give battleships the cargo they treuly deserve.
-
Quote:
"Don't touch the red button!"
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