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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 12:05:09 I stole this from Chribba in another thread. Think it deserves its own thread. Screenshot Rokh - 8/7/5 Hyperion - 8/6/6 Maelstrom - 8/6/6 Abaddon - 8/4/8 This is just preliminary though. Looks like the Caldari took the slot layout I wanted for the Maelstrom. Go figure. Edit 1: However, the Maelstrom has shield recharge time 1500. The others 2000. Not sure how much that will help it. It might make a really good passive tank. Edit 2: The Maelstrom also have a 100 m3 drone bay together with Abaddon. Hyperion has 75 and Rokh 50. One heavy drone is 25 m3, so do the math. Edit 3: The speed of the ships are quite similar. 110 for Abaddon and Rokh, 115 for Maelstrom and 130 for Hyperion. Edit 4: Cargo space. The Hyperion gets a massive 675 cargo space. The Rokh is second with 625, and Maelstorm and Abaddon are left with 550 and 525. Not really sure of the reasons for the big differences here. I guess having bigger drone bays mean less cargo space. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:45:00 - [2] nooooo Maelstrom! why? join col ! now
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:45:00 - [3] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 11:43:04 I stole this from Chribba in another thread. Think it deserves its own thread. Screenshot Rokh - 8/7/5 Hyperion - 8/6/6 Maelstrom - 8/6/6 Abaddon - 8/4/8 This is just preliminary though. Looks like the Caldari took the slot layout I wanted for the Maelstrom. Go figure. bloody caldari, always ahve to get the best or the crying would drown everyone on the forums "waaaaaaaaa minmatar can't have more mids then us waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:52:00 - [4] and hyperion 8/6/6 wtf? thats rather weird
dabster Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:54:00 - [5] **** OFF CCP!! ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
Yarek Balear Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:56:00 - [6] Edited by: Yarek Balear on 27/07/2006 11:56:33 Originally by: Aloysius Knight and hyperion 8/6/6 wtf? thats rather weird Wierd isn't necessarily bad, just look at Wierchas
Greyshadow Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:56:00 - [7] Edited by: Greyshadow on 27/07/2006 13:04:22 That 8/6/6 is abit wierd I have to say considering its meant to shield tank. "Now you see me, now you don't!"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Aloysius Knight and hyperion 8/6/6 wtf? thats rather weird Once again, I think it would have been much better suited for minmatar instead. 6 medium slots on a blaster boat with that speed... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Melkor Bloodaxe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:57:00 - [9] If that are the real stats, I am gonna save some money for 8x 1400mm II A cargo of 550m3 is just not gonna work with AC's and a rof bonus... ____ "Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?" -HippoKing- TEAM MINMATAR - In Rust We Trust -
Chai N'Dorr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:57:00 - [10] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter nooooo Maelstrom! why? Indeed, I do hope it's not true but if it is, it's exactly what I expected CCP to do _ Short Story: Planetside
Tharrn Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:59:00 - [11] Cargo Expanders! ducks Now recruiting!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Melkor Bloodaxe If that are the real stats, I am gonna save some money for 8x 1400mm II A cargo of 550m3 is just not gonna work with AC's and a rof bonus... Hyperion also got more cargo space than Maelstrom, despite the fact that autocannons chew ammo like candy. But if its supposed to be a artillery boat, i guess it makes at least some sense. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Rodj Blake Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:01:00 - [13] My first impression of the Abaddon is that there's finally an Amarrian ship with decent CPU, but the cap will be a massive problem. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:01:00 - [14] Edited by: Severa Crest on 27/07/2006 12:04:15 TBH this is exactly what I was expecting for the Mael, and on first inspection it seems to suck. Dont really give a hoot about the others. Minmatar ships are supposed to be fast, agile, and flexible. This pile of steaming turd is none of the above. Edit - 3 locked targets??!! and we dont even have our usual racial blessing of the best scan res...
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:01:00 - [15] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 27/07/2006 12:01:50 Originally by: Yarek Balear Edited by: Yarek Balear on 27/07/2006 11:56:33 Originally by: Aloysius Knight and hyperion 8/6/6 wtf? thats rather weird Wierd isn't necessarily bad, just look at Wierchas um wtf ? edit: i ♥ u tho join col ! now
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:02:00 - [16] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Yarek Balear Edited by: Yarek Balear on 27/07/2006 11:56:33 Originally by: Aloysius Knight and hyperion 8/6/6 wtf? thats rather weird Wierd isn't necessarily bad, just look at Wierchas um wtf ? looks at Wierchas yeah i guess, but still GIVE MAELSTORM 7 MIDS FOR FUKS SAKE!
Tervaga	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:02:00 - [17] 8/6/6 for the Mael's shield tank seems fine to me. Considering the Raven is 8/6/5, and the Mael has better shield hp and recharge... And the Hyperion will prolly rely more on webs and tracking comps, burning more medium slots up.
Liisa	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:04:00 - [18] Edited by: Liisa on 27/07/2006 12:07:13 Well, if those stats stand, I forsee the Maelstorm becoming the new pirate ship of choice because of the 21000 pwg. 21000 pwg with engineering 5 that gives you 26250 pwg. Now, t2 1400s have a base fitting req. of 3575 pwg. With AWG at level 5 this is reduced by 10% to 3217,5 pwg. Eight of these bad boys on a ship means you need 25740 pwg. With AWG at level 4, eight t2 1400s need 26312 pwg. So either Mr. Sniper need no mod for his pwg, or he needs only 1. This leaves the nice 6 mids and 5 or 6 lows for tracking comps, sensor boosters, gyros and stabs. It might even make for a nice fleet ship, though that it something that I cannot really answer. edit I really think the Maelstrom will make for a very good mission runner however with t2 1200s, a shield tank, gyros, a dcu and t2 pdus for the extra cap and shield recharge, but that, ratting and sniping at lowsec gates is what this ship will be good at. ---------------------------------- I am free \o/ Sadly your sig is also slightly above the required limits of 400 x 120, total size not exceeding 24000 kbs - Cortes
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:06:00 - [19] Originally by: Liisa Well, if those stats stand, I forsee the Maelstorm becoming the new pirate ship of choice because of the 21000 pwg. 21000 pwg with engineering 5 that gives you 26250 pwg. Now, t2 1400s have a base fitting req. of 3575 pwg. With AWG at level 5 this is reduced by 10% to 3217,5 pwg. Eight of these bad boys on a ship means you need 25740 pwg. With AWG at level 4, eight t2 1400s need 26312 pwg. So either Mr. Sniper need no mod for his pwg, or he needs only 1. This leaves the nice 6 mids and 5 or 6 lows for tracking comps, sensor boosters, gyros and stabs. It might even make for a nice fleet ship, though that it something that I cannot really answer. Abaddon has more powergrid. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 11:43:04 I stole this from Chribba in another thread. Think it deserves its own thread. Screenshot Rokh - 8/7/5 Hyperion - 8/6/6 Maelstrom - 8/6/6 Abaddon - 8/4/8 This is just preliminary though. Looks like the Caldari took the slot layout I wanted for the Maelstrom. Go figure. bloody caldari, always ahve to get the best or the crying would drown everyone on the forums "waaaaaaaaa minmatar can't have more mids then us waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" BTW, 3 max locked targets for Maelstorm. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:07:00 - [21] This info means absolutly nothing, but go ahead and speculate and whine. KILROCK'S GIRLY SIDE / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:08:00 - [22] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski This info means absolutly nothing, but go ahead and speculate and whine. You expect everything about these ships to be totally different when they go live? I definently dont. But we'll see. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Tervaga 8/6/6 for the Mael's shield tank seems fine to me. Considering the Raven is 8/6/5, and the Mael has better shield hp and recharge... And the Hyperion will prolly rely more on webs and tracking comps, burning more medium slots up. you can't compare a teir 2 ship to a tier 3 rok (meh who cares what its called, its a caldardi POS) shiel recharge base 6800/2000 =3.4 maelstorm (yay!) 6400 /1500 = 4.2 and mael will need tracking comps i mean hello arty ?
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Liisa Well, if those stats stand, I forsee the Maelstorm becoming the new pirate ship of choice because of the 21000 pwg. 21000 pwg with engineering 5 that gives you 26250 pwg. Now, t2 1400s have a base fitting req. of 3575 pwg. With AWG at level 5 this is reduced by 10% to 3217,5 pwg. Eight of these bad boys on a ship means you need 25740 pwg. With AWG at level 4, eight t2 1400s need 26312 pwg. So either Mr. Sniper need no mod for his pwg, or he needs only 1. This leaves the nice 6 mids and 5 or 6 lows for tracking comps, sensor boosters, gyros and stabs. It might even make for a nice fleet ship, though that it something that I cannot really answer. Abaddon has more powergrid. Indeed abaddon with 8 tachs 4tw
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 11:43:04 I stole this from Chribba in another thread. Think it deserves its own thread. Screenshot Rokh - 8/7/5 Hyperion - 8/6/6 Maelstrom - 8/6/6 Abaddon - 8/4/8 This is just preliminary though. Looks like the Caldari took the slot layout I wanted for the Maelstrom. Go figure. bloody caldari, always ahve to get the best or the crying would drown everyone on the forums "waaaaaaaaa minmatar can't have more mids then us waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" BTW, 3 max locked targets for Maelstorm. omg and you get 8!!! ZOMG 7th MID!!!!! NOWWWWWWW
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jenny Spitfire BTW, 3 max locked targets for Maelstorm. omg and you get 8!!! ZOMG 7th MID!!!!! NOWWWWWWW No. please?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jenny Spitfire BTW, 3 max locked targets for Maelstorm. omg and you get 8!!! ZOMG 7th MID!!!!! NOWWWWWWW No. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jenny Spitfire BTW, 3 max locked targets for Maelstorm. omg and you get 8!!! ZOMG 7th MID!!!!! NOWWWWWWW No. please? No, not even with sugar on top. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jenny Spitfire BTW, 3 max locked targets for Maelstorm. omg and you get 8!!! ZOMG 7th MID!!!!! NOWWWWWWW No. please? No, not even with sugar on top. very well, then to further dreams of all minmatar you must now die good bye Mister Bond!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No, not even with sugar on top. You also got 6800 base shield, and of course, the 7 medium slots. Enjoy... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Trefnis Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Tervaga 8/6/6 for the Mael's shield tank seems fine to me. Considering the Raven is 8/6/5, and the Mael has better shield hp and recharge... And the Hyperion will prolly rely more on webs and tracking comps, burning more medium slots up. with raven you dont need to lose one mid for web and one for speed mod(even fighting bses)
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No, not even with sugar on top. You also got 6800 base shield, and of course, the 7 medium slots. Enjoy... Ta. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jerick Ludhowe Arcana Imperii Ltd. Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:18:00 - [33] Well looking at those stats I can say that the Megathron is a FAR better blaster platform than the Hyperion. What's the point of 8 turrets when you have 19062 grid, is the Hyperion supose to shield tank?.
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Well looking at those stats I can say that the Megathron is a FAR better blaster platform than the Hyperion. What's the point of 8 turrets when you have 19062 grid, is the Hyperion supose to shield tank?. at least you dont have to use the maelstrom, thats looking like a bigger steaming pile of crap by the minute.
Tervaga	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:21:00 - [35] Edited by: Tervaga on 27/07/2006 12:23:36 Originally by: Aloysius Knight you can't compare a teir 2 ship to a tier 3 rok (meh who cares what its called, its a caldardi POS) shiel recharge base 6800/2000 =3.4 maelstorm (yay!) 6400 /1500 = 4.2 and mael will need tracking comps i mean hello arty ? Yes yes, I know I compared a tier 2 to tier 3, but it still applies. A Tier 3 shield tank should probably be that little bit better than a Tier 2 shield tank right? Well it is. And considering how there have been whines here and there about how the Raven's tank is OTT sometimes... The Hyperion/tracking comp comment was purely directed towards the question of why it would need more medium slots than the Mega. Or more accurately, post #4 in this thread. I hadn't really thought about the Mael needing them though. I mean, I haven't quite gotten around to flying a Matar ship yet (working on it). And yay for the Mael's recharge rate ^_^ Quote: with raven you dont need to lose one mid for web and one for speed mod(even fighting bses) Is going fast necessarily a requirement for the Maelstrom if, say, you're not using autocannons? And the need for a web is maybe debateable, since you could have a friendly do the webbing for you. You could essentially say you required a target painter on a torp raven, but not everybody's going to use one.
Norris Neophitus Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:22:00 - [36] More targets and an extra mid slot or i'm never paying the massive price for one of these over rated lumps of junk + a bit more resistance might be nice + smallest cargo bay except for abadd and that dont even need ammo hmmmm CCP will pay for this Mark my words CCP will pay
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Tervaga Edited by: Tervaga on 27/07/2006 12:23:36 Originally by: Aloysius Knight you can't compare a teir 2 ship to a tier 3 rok (meh who cares what its called, its a caldardi POS) shiel recharge base 6800/2000 =3.4 maelstorm (yay!) 6400 /1500 = 4.2 and mael will need tracking comps i mean hello arty ? Yes yes, I know I compared a tier 2 to tier 3, but it still applies. A Tier 3 shield tank should probably be that little bit better than a Tier 2 shield tank right? Well it is. And considering how there have been whines here and there about how the Raven's tank is OTT sometimes... The Hyperion/tracking comp comment was purely directed towards the question of why it would need more medium slots than the Mega. Or more accurately, post #4 in this thread. I hadn't really thought about the Mael needing them though. I mean, I haven't quite gotten around to flying a Matar ship yet (working on it). And yay for the Mael's recharge rate ^_^ Quote: with raven you dont need to lose one mid for web and one for speed mod(even fighting bses) Is going fast necessarily a requirement for the Maelstrom if, say, you're not using autocannons? And the need for a web is maybe debateable, since you could have a friendly do the webbing for you. You could essentially say you required a target painter on a torp raven, but not everybody's going to use one. well then you ahve never seen how much arty miss, and that 7th mid turns the rok into a betta tanker the the mael if i think right you can wack a boost amp in there and bam your like the maelstorm but have more shields more resistances and more range
Kazaam Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:25:00 - [38] Edited by: Kazaam on 27/07/2006 12:39:05 Edited by: Kazaam on 27/07/2006 12:35:59 Being Caldari, Rokh doesn't seem that bad to fit 8x 425mm II : CPU = 690, with Electronics 5 = 862.5 Powergrid = 15500, with Engineering 5 = 19375 With BS 4 CPU : 77 x 8 = 616. Sounds fair. Powergrid : 2625 x 8 = 21000. K, already a bit of a problem here. Will need Adv. Weapon upgrades 3 or 4 to have some grid left for the rest. If it stays 8/7/5, I think i'd fit a fleet Rokh that way : High : 8x 425mm Railgun II [40x Spike L] (Ofc, pointless fitting something else here) Med : 2x Sensor Booster II 2x Tracking Computer II 1x Passive EM II 1x Passive Thermal II 1x Invul Field II Low : 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1x Tracking Enhancer II 1x 1600mm II 1x Damage Control Unit _________________________________________
Tervaga	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:27:00 - [39] Originally by: Aloysius Knight well then you ahve never seen how much arty miss No, I haven't. That's what I get for spending my time training to use a Raven, only to change my mind once I finally get there
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:27:00 - [40] ccp might as well replace the capacitor on the rohk UI with a giant IWIN button.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:32:00 - [41] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 12:35:32 The Hyperion has a speed of 130 currently, and 100.000.000 mass. So the Tempest is still a little faster with speed 140 and a mass of 102.500.000. However, seeing as the Hyperion has one extra medium slot over the Tempest, it will be very scary. I never thought I would see a fast and light blaster ship with more medium slots than a autocannon minmatar one. Dont really see the balance here... And yes, im comparing with a tier 2 ship here. The Maelstrom with its 115 base speed will probably never become successful as a autocannon platform. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Tervaga Originally by: Aloysius Knight well then you ahve never seen how much arty miss No, I haven't. That's what I get for spending my time training to use a Raven, only to change my mind once I finally get there \ yeah and also raven never miss's in reguards to shooting bs, if your in lockable range it will hit you for max damg everytime all the time, with typhoon tempest and maelstom you get under its range or move faster then there guns can hit you there boned
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:35:00 - [43] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 27/07/2006 12:43:52 If the maelstrom goes in like that, it will become the new old Typhoon. You cannot shieldtank a gunship properly with only 6 medslots (coz you got things like tracking any transversal which need to be countered with medslot items as opposed to missiles who don't need such support). I am sure that if you could do it, the Fleet Tempest would be a lot more popular. The extreme mass and slow speed will make it handle like a brick and is in no way justified if it does not get proper stats. And only being able to hold 3 must be a joke, right? Also, the lowered shield recharge time strikes me as stupid seeing how it gets a shield boost bonus, more or less requiring an active tank in order to use your bonus (hence the Typhoon similarity, might end up being fitted ignoring one bonus). Now if the Mael got the resistance bonus and the Rokh got the boost bonus, this would make more sense. It also has the lowest sensor strength of the bunch. All in all I don't see any reason to use the ship in that picture over a Tempest. The ship itself will likely be more expensive. You have to fork out more money for two additional guns that give you the same DPS as a tempest while losing your NOSes. You get a better alpha strike and 25m¦ more drones, but you lose versatility as ACs will really not be very feasible on that kind of brick. You will end up with the same armor tank as 6 medslots are not enough for a good shieldtank on a gunship. So you lose one bonus. And you get the abovementioned drawbacks. So what would be the point of getting a Mael? One more Multispec Jammer? I would not even mind if it had 8/7/4 slots and thus one less slot total than the others. But this 8/6/6 halfassedness really irks me. Then again the phoon is kinda useful now so I guess the Maelstrom HAS to suck :( --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Laboratus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 12:34:16 The Hyperion has a speed of 130 currently, and 100.000.000 mass. So the Tempest is still a little faster with speed 140 and a mass of 102.500.000. However, seeing as the Hyperion has one extra medium slot over the Tempest, it will be very scary. I was rather hoping it would be around 10% faster and 10% lighter than other close range ships. Oh, well. We all gotto learn to live with disapointments. Mind control and tin hats
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:38:00 - [45] Originally by: Laboratus I was rather hoping it would be around 10% faster and 10% lighter than other close range ships. Oh, well. We all gotto learn to live with disapointments. Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Aloysius Knight Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:40:00 - [46] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Laboratus I was rather hoping it would be around 10% faster and 10% lighter than other close range ships. Oh, well. We all gotto learn to live with disapointments. Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. no no no your using the wroung word, *****is more like it
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 12:35:32 The Hyperion has a speed of 130 currently, and 100.000.000 mass. So the Tempest is still a little faster with speed 140 and a mass of 102.500.000. However, seeing as the Hyperion has one extra medium slot over the Tempest, it will be very scary. I never thought I would see a fast and light blaster ship with more medium slots than a autocannon minmatar one. Dont really see the balance here... And yes, im comparing with a tier 2 ship here. The Maelstrom with its 115 base speed will probably never become successful as a autocannon platform. Indeed, the Hyperion has the best damage + it has the speed and agility to really bring it.
Galomier Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:41:00 - [48] The speed on the hyperion is laughable. An extra 5 m/s over the megathron, wow... wear a seat belt grandma... The hyperion is supposed to be much faster not marginally faster. I have a bad taste in my mouth of how this ship is going to turn out, with it being slower than a tempest. My feeling would be to bump it up to 140 or idealy 150, so it can serve its role as "get in and duke it out heavy hitter", not the "limp half way across the field to the future spot where your wreckage will lay."
Laboratus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:42:00 - [49] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Laboratus I was rather hoping it would be around 10% faster and 10% lighter than other close range ships. Oh, well. We all gotto learn to live with disapointments. Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. From what the devs said before, I got the impression the ship would be very fast and very light. So that it would be an agile blaster boat. Mind control and tin hats
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:42:00 - [50] Originally by: Galomier The speed on the hyperion is laughable. An extra 5 m/s over the megathron, wow... wear a seat belt grandma... The hyperion is supposed to be much faster not marginally faster. I have a bad taste in my mouth of how this ship is going to turn out, with it being slower than a tempest. My feeling would be to bump it up to 140 or idealy 150, so it can serve its role as "get in and duke it out heavy hitter", not the "limp half way across the field to the future spot where your wreckage will lay." Mega is already slower than tempest and it pwns it (albeit with broken t2 ammo)
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:42:00 - [51] Originally by: Galomier The speed on the hyperion is laughable. An extra 5 m/s over the megathron, wow... wear a seat belt grandma... The hyperion is supposed to be much faster not marginally faster. I have a bad taste in my mouth of how this ship is going to turn out, with it being slower than a tempest. My feeling would be to bump it up to 140 or idealy 150, so it can serve its role as "get in and duke it out heavy hitter", not the "limp half way across the field to the future spot where your wreckage will lay." look @ the mass...
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:43:00 - [52] Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Laboratus I was rather hoping it would be around 10% faster and 10% lighter than other close range ships. Oh, well. We all gotto learn to live with disapointments. Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. From what the devs said before, I got the impression the ship would be very fast and very light. So that it would be an agile blaster boat. Can you really see balance in having all that damage and being able to easily and quickly get into range?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:44:00 - [53] Originally by: SengH Originally by: Galomier The speed on the hyperion is laughable. An extra 5 m/s over the megathron, wow... wear a seat belt grandma... The hyperion is supposed to be much faster not marginally faster. I have a bad taste in my mouth of how this ship is going to turn out, with it being slower than a tempest. My feeling would be to bump it up to 140 or idealy 150, so it can serve its role as "get in and duke it out heavy hitter", not the "limp half way across the field to the future spot where your wreckage will lay." look @ the mass... Exacly. Dont forget the mass, its very important. A low mass is how minmatar used to have the most speedy, agile battleships before Hyperion. Its the combination of speed and mass that makes the ship act speedy. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ozzie Asrail Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:44:00 - [54] woa looks nice. The hype could do with a little more base speed i'd of thought, might not be too bad with the lighter mass i guess. The mwd bonus combined with the extra 1260 cap might actually mean it can get into a fight without using a whole reload of 800's. This thing is going to be great in pure gank. 8x neuts mwd, 7.5k, 20k, web, cap booster, tracking comp Lar, DCU, EAN, Magstab x 3 Rohk will be very nice for fleets but higher mass and slower speed than raven its gonna be painfull flying in small gangs. That cap looks a little low to work with 8 rails + active tank, gonna be passive all the way on this. Same recharge as raven yet +800 shields. Nice targetting range but sucky scan res as usual. 8x 425mm 2x Sensor booster, 1x Tracking Comp, 2x Invuln, 2x L Extender 2x Magstab, 2x Tracking Enhancer, 1x DCU Dont fly amarr or min yet so not sure about their fittings but the abadan will have a mean tank, possibly make most of resists and only a single large rep with gank and cap mods? Meal someting similar to the rohk with a xl booster and amp instead of the extenders and maybe another dmg mod in lows? -----
Omatje Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:44:00 - [55] I truly hope these stats are far off. barf@rapoc A Minmatar ship that handles like a pregnant cow on valium is soo very wrong hmm...
Stanis Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:44:00 - [56] Huh this is wierd
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:46:00 - [57] Edited by: Severa Crest on 27/07/2006 12:47:26 My Mael setup.. 8 x 800 autos mwd, various ew, 2 x cap booster 3 x LAR, 3 x hards or 8 x 800 autos mwd, xl sb, 2 x inv, web, scram 2 x gyro, 4 x nano
Jerick Ludhowe Arcana Imperii Ltd. Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:48:00 - [58] Originally by: Jim McGregor Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. Only because people will use standard 4 blaster Mids + 2x ECM and ecm Drones. 6 Low slots is not enough to armor tank effectivly so people will probably just Max gank it with Ions. Hurray for another Gallente ecm abuser. Anyhoo I'm still extremely sceptical that these stats will go live, they just look so unfinished and completely unballanced.
Laboratus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Severa Crest Can you really see balance in having all that damage and being able to easily and quickly get into range? The blaster boats suffer greatly from low falloff ranges, and as such it is much more crucial to get that agility than with autocannons. Thus, maybe. Oh well. Mind control and tin hats
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:49:00 - [60] Edited by: SengH on 27/07/2006 12:49:37 Originally by: Severa Crest Edited by: Severa Crest on 27/07/2006 12:47:26 My Mael setup.. 8 x 800 autos mwd, various ew, 2 x cap booster 3 x LAR, 3 x hards or 8 x 800 autos mwd, xl sb, 2 x inv, web, scram 2 x gyro, 4 x nano Run into Nosdomi or pretty much every other closeranged ship with nos = wallet blinking!
Norris Neophitus Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:49:00 - [61] Ok wierd stat for you all, dont know if anyone noticed or cared but the maelstrom is the smallest ship by 250km3 yet it ways as much as the rest of them so? Did those pesky caldari and amarr steel all our sylramic fibers and replace them with lead
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:51:00 - [62] Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Severa Crest Can you really see balance in having all that damage and being able to easily and quickly get into range? The blaster boats suffer greatly from low falloff ranges, and as such it is much more crucial to get that agility than with autocannons. Thus, maybe. Oh well. That is the risk of using blasters though. You could fit rails for much better range, but you tradeoff the damage output. With the advent of the Hyperion, my ships wont be able to outdamage OR outrun your ship, hence you pwn me every time.
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:52:00 - [63] Originally by: SengH Edited by: SengH on 27/07/2006 12:49:37 Originally by: Severa Crest Edited by: Severa Crest on 27/07/2006 12:47:26 My Mael setup.. 8 x 800 autos mwd, various ew, 2 x cap booster 3 x LAR, 3 x hards or 8 x 800 autos mwd, xl sb, 2 x inv, web, scram 2 x gyro, 4 x nano Run into Nosdomi or pretty much every other closeranged ship with nos = wallet blinking! Yep it doesnt do anything better than the tempest, but I'm guessing we're gonna have to work with this lump.
Chode Rizoum Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:54:00 - [64] give the maelstrom 7 meds
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:54:00 - [65] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Jim McGregor Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. Only because people will use standard 4 blaster Mids + 2x ECM and ecm Drones. 6 Low slots is not enough to armor tank effectivly so people will probably just Max gank it with Ions. Hurray for another Gallente ecm abuser. Anyhoo I'm still extremely sceptical that these stats will go live, they just look so unfinished and completely unballanced. Yep.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:55:00 - [66] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Jim McGregor Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. Only because people will use standard 4 blaster Mids + 2x ECM and ecm Drones. 6 Low slots is not enough to armor tank effectivly so people will probably just Max gank it with Ions. Hurray for another Gallente ecm abuser. Anyhoo I'm still extremely sceptical that these stats will go live, they just look so unfinished and completely unballanced. Yep. Personally i think they will. Its definently not balanced in my opinion either, but I can definently see this being introduced anyway. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:55:00 - [67] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Jim McGregor Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. Only because people will use standard 4 blaster Mids + 2x ECM and ecm Drones. 6 Low slots is not enough to armor tank effectivly so people will probably just Max gank it with Ions. Hurray for another Gallente ecm abuser. Anyhoo I'm still extremely sceptical that these stats will go live, they just look so unfinished and completely unballanced. Thats what they said about tech 2 ammo....
Jerick Ludhowe Arcana Imperii Ltd. Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:57:00 - [68] Originally by: SengH Thats what they said about tech 2 ammo.... It's the beggining of the end
Rodj Blake Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:00:00 - [69] Originally by: Norris Neophitus Ok wierd stat for you all, dont know if anyone noticed or cared but the maelstrom is the smallest ship by 250km3 yet it ways as much as the rest of them so? Did those pesky caldari and amarr steel all our sylramic fibers and replace them with lead Minmatars are noted for being dense Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:01:00 - [70] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Jim McGregor Not sure why you are disappointed... the Hyperion will beat a AC tempest easily. Only because people will use standard 4 blaster Mids + 2x ECM and ecm Drones. 6 Low slots is not enough to armor tank effectivly so people will probably just Max gank it with Ions. Hurray for another Gallente ecm abuser. Anyhoo I'm still extremely sceptical that these stats will go live, they just look so unfinished and completely unballanced. Yep. Personally i think they will. Its definently not balanced in my opinion either, but I can definently see this being introduced anyway. well we are waiting for ecm nerf join col ! now
Melkor Bloodaxe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:09:00 - [71] Originally by: Norris Neophitus Ok wierd stat for you all, dont know if anyone noticed or cared but the maelstrom is the smallest ship by 250km3 yet it ways as much as the rest of them so? Did those pesky caldari and amarr steel all our sylramic fibers and replace them with lead Bit strange indeed: Tempest: 850.000 m3 and 102500000 kg Typhoon: 920.000 m3 and 100.000.000 kg Maelstrom: 850.000 m3 and 125.000.000 kg Mael seems a bit off if you look at it... ____ "Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?" -HippoKing- TEAM MINMATAR - In Rust We Trust -
Grimpak Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:34:00 - [72] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 12:05:09 I stole this from Chribba in another thread. Think it deserves its own thread. Screenshot Rokh - 8/7/5 Hyperion - 8/6/6 Maelstrom - 8/6/6 Abaddon - 8/4/8 This is just preliminary though. Looks like the Caldari took the slot layout I wanted for the Maelstrom. Go figure. Edit 1: However, the Maelstrom has shield recharge time 1500. The others 2000. Not sure how much that will help it. It might make a really good passive tank. Edit 2: The Maelstrom also have a 100 m3 drone bay together with Abaddon. Hyperion has 75 and Rokh 50. One heavy drone is 25 m3, so do the math. Edit 3: The speed of the ships are quite similar. 110 for Abaddon and Rokh, 115 for Maelstrom and 130 for Hyperion. Edit 4: Cargo space. The Hyperion gets a massive 675 cargo space. The Rokh is second with 625, and Maelstorm and Abaddon are left with 550 and 525. Not really sure of the reasons for the big differences here. I guess having bigger drone bays mean less cargo space. grimpak's take on the ships: 1 - If Maelstorm will be that sluggish, I would replace the ROF bonus for a dmg bonus. That way it would be more proficient at long range bombardment. Also give him the 7th med slot. And also could use a few more points in the sensor strenght. And only 3 max targets?? 2 - The Abbadon could use a bit more cap. 5800 cap is good? 3 - The Rohk seems pretty powerfull as it is. The speed and mass provides the counterbalance needed for avoiding it to become a blaster ship (wich is pretty much overpowered imho) 4 - Wtf is with the Hyperion? I would cut the meds down to 5 and give 1 more low and increase the grid to 16500. oh and btw: to the people saying that altho preliminary, this is the final config of the ships: BC's were changed before they went live. Actually, I think it was the worst pre-nerfing I ever saw, so don't say that they won't change the ships. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:39:00 - [73] Well those layouts look quite final and it kinda supports my worst expectations. Caldari tank >>>> minmatar tank caldari usefullness >>>>>>>>>>>>>> minmatar usefullness caldari >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others And I say this with caldari BS lvl5 From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Jojin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:49:00 - [74] It seems a lot of current methods of setup are being applied to the new ships and not working out too well. Perhaps we will get some insight from the developers as to how they intended the ships to be used and it might make more sense as to the setups. From what was stated the ships are necessarily supposed to be better than the others, but they are supposed to have a niche role in which they excel.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:21:00 - [75] Originally by: Jojin It seems a lot of current methods of setup are being applied to the new ships and not working out too well. Perhaps we will get some insight from the developers as to how they intended the ships to be used and it might make more sense as to the setups. From what was stated the ships are necessarily supposed to be better than the others, but they are supposed to have a niche role in which they excel. Well, I don't know about everybody else, but I know how to fit my Abaddon for PvE already. I don't know as yet if it'll be more effective than a Geddon/Apoc, but if it can be, I'll make it do it. Geddon struggles with cap, Apoc struggles with DPS, the new Abaddon, well, we shall see :) As for PvP, I generally speaking come up with my own setups. Sure lots of the time they come out very close to other peoples, but a lot of the fun in the game is trying to squeeze more out of your ship than the other guy, so when you start shooting him he ends up in a pod. I'm reserving judgement on the Abaddon until it comes out. Although the two things I'd like to see on it are the extra midslot over the Geddon (i.e. 8/4/8 rather than 8/3/8) and the ROF bonus changed to a damage bonus (don't worry, it won't beat the Tempest for alpha!).
Exiled One Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:25:00 - [76] Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Jojin It seems a lot of current methods of setup are being applied to the new ships and not working out too well. Perhaps we will get some insight from the developers as to how they intended the ships to be used and it might make more sense as to the setups. From what was stated the ships are necessarily supposed to be better than the others, but they are supposed to have a niche role in which they excel. Well, I don't know about everybody else, but I know how to fit my Abaddon for PvE already. I don't know as yet if it'll be more effective than a Geddon/Apoc, but if it can be, I'll make it do it. Geddon struggles with cap, Apoc struggles with DPS, the new Abaddon, well, we shall see :) As for PvP, I generally speaking come up with my own setups. Sure lots of the time they come out very close to other peoples, but a lot of the fun in the game is trying to squeeze more out of your ship than the other guy, so when you start shooting him he ends up in a pod. I'm reserving judgement on the Abaddon until it comes out. Although the two things I'd like to see on it are the extra midslot over the Geddon (i.e. 8/4/8 rather than 8/3/8) and the ROF bonus changed to a damage bonus (don't worry, it won't beat the Tempest for alpha!). It won't; FOR PVE - FORGET IT when you have to tank for more than 2 minutes you WON'T be able to run both tank and your turrets EVEN with 4 t2 cap rech in med slots.
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:34:00 - [77] Assuming those stats are at least somewhat accurate and what people have been saying about Abaddon and dual large electrochems and the stuff about Abaddon using cap charges as proverbial ammunition it seems like that Amarr is truly getting some odd "love": It can hold only 13 cap charge 800:s in its cargo hold while Rokh can have 15, Hyperion 16 and Maelstorm also 13. This forum misses the emoticon I'd like to now put here. It's the one that has really wacky looking irregular shaped eyes. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
Exiled One Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:37:00 - [78] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Assuming those stats are at least somewhat accurate and what people have been saying about Abaddon and dual large electrochems and the stuff about Abaddon using cap charges as proverbial ammunition it seems like that Amarr is truly getting some odd "love": It can hold only 13 cap charge 800:s in its cargo hold while Rokh can have 15, Hyperion 16 and Maelstorm also 13. This forum misses the emoticon I'd like to now put here. It's the one that has really wacky looking irregular shaped eyes. What? Cap boosters? EH? CANADA? WITH A ******* CARGO BAY OF 500M3? You can carry about 11 800s, so what? PVE with that setup?
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:41:00 - [79] Originally by: Exiled One Originally by: Ather Ialeas Assuming those stats are at least somewhat accurate and what people have been saying about Abaddon and dual large electrochems and the stuff about Abaddon using cap charges as proverbial ammunition it seems like that Amarr is truly getting some odd "love": It can hold only 13 cap charge 800:s in its cargo hold while Rokh can have 15, Hyperion 16 and Maelstorm also 13. This forum misses the emoticon I'd like to now put here. It's the one that has really wacky looking irregular shaped eyes. What? Cap boosters? EH? CANADA? WITH A ***** CARGO BAY OF 500M3? You can carry about 11 800s, so what? PVE with that setup? I assume this is a flame post...well anyways, I would NEVER fit a capbooster to any of my ships (I love my sustainable cap ) but it's just one of the things people have been yabbering about Abaddon's total gank fit. Spat out something like 1200dps for 60 seconds and then just died or smth like that. ________________________________________________ Originally by:** Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:42:00 - [80] omg look how much max targets Maelstrom has i think this is joke ..... join col ! now
Exiled One Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:45:00 - [81] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Exiled One Originally by: Ather Ialeas Assuming those stats are at least somewhat accurate and what people have been saying about Abaddon and dual large electrochems and the stuff about Abaddon using cap charges as proverbial ammunition it seems like that Amarr is truly getting some odd "love": It can hold only 13 cap charge 800:s in its cargo hold while Rokh can have 15, Hyperion 16 and Maelstorm also 13. This forum misses the emoticon I'd like to now put here. It's the one that has really wacky looking irregular shaped eyes. What? Cap boosters? EH? CANADA? WITH A ******* CARGO BAY OF 500M3? You can carry about 11 800s, so what? PVE with that setup? I assume this is a flame post...well anyways, I would NEVER fit a capbooster to any of my ships (I love my sustainable cap ) but it's just one of the things people have been yabbering about Abaddon's total gank fit. Spat out something like 1200dps for 60 seconds and then just died or smth like that. It wasn't a flame post I'm just a liiiiiiittle bit surprised what the amateurs did to tier 3, and clearly - THEY WERENT MADE BY OLD SKOOL DEVS; we know our moms and dads, but sadly, this is becoming into a: get as many players into the game, minimal staff, new ships, trinkets -- but but but -- PLAYER'S VIEW DOES NOT MATTER ANYMORE?.!?
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:45:00 - [82] Originally by: Exiled One It won't; FOR PVE - FORGET IT when you have to tank for more than 2 minutes you WON'T be able to run both tank and your turrets EVEN with 4 t2 cap rech in med slots. Dorry to burst your whining bubble. But here's the way I see it, my Apoc for my own personal use. Compare it to the Abba. (Yes, that's what it's going to be called, Mamma Mia) You gain 25% DPS. You gain 25% resists. You (might) gain 1 midslot. You gain some fitting. You gain some base cap. You lose 25% cap. You lose cap efficiency on lasers. I run my Apoc with 2 specific hardeners and 3 damage mods. I take the third damage mod off, counter that with the 25% damage bonus and I'm still doing more damage. I can now fit my tank (Core X type repper) and 8 mega beams since if it's got any extra powergrid at all it'll fit that, so I get a teensy wee damage boost. For tanking Guristas I use 2 kinetic hardeners, 55%ers, I've got officer ones somewhere, but they're overkill, 55ers do it fine. I get an unstacking penalised 25% boost to my kinetic resist, and to my thermal resist. Guess what I'm dropping, that's right, a hardener. So now I'm doing a touch more damage than the Apoc, and I have 3 free slots - and horrible cap. Assuming a modest 5% capacitor increase over the Apoc. (Less than the difference in base stats between the geddon and the apoc). I now have 105% apoc base cap - the apoc bonus takes it to 125% I then stick on 3 cap mods. 181% of the Apocs cap. Here's where my figures stop, I don't have any more. But I'm thinking that 181 compared to 125 makes up for the extra cap I use on my lasers.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:54:00 - [83] Well, the hyperion sucks more and more the more info I get. Atleast the other races gets interesting BSes (how good they are for PvP and PvE remains to be seen), but we already know by now that hyperion will be 100% sucky for missions and most PvE, and pretty sucky in PvP even for close range. Is there a reason why CCP gives Caldari every best ships, and nerf Gallente?
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.07.27 14:55:00 - [84] Edited by: Hydrian Alante on 27/07/2006 14:59:15 Edited by: Hydrian Alante on 27/07/2006 14:57:30 15250 grid on the Hype makes baby hydrian cry. LOL the Hyperion is the only BS which has a lower Powergrid compared to a lower tier one. CCP you must be kidding? Another Gallente ship which can¦t fit neutrons without gimping the whole setup. Why are neutron blasters in the game anyway? And with 6 crappy low slots you even can¦t fit the needed 2 RCU II. And the only Battleship which seems fine to me is the Caldari one. I just dislike the name. It should be called "Caldari 4tw" or "The-I-Win-Button" or "Pwnmobile" It is the only one in this whole lineup which has good damage, tank and range. All other ships have to make sacrifices.
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:01:00 - [85] These are just the placeholder stats that have been around forever, yes? If so they are probably nothing like the final figures and really isn't worth even discussing.
Callistus Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:03:00 - [86] Not sure about the Hyperion yet... I don't mind the slot layout; extra mids give room for a tracking computer on top of the standard mwd, web, scram injector and you still have one slot spare to add some flexibility. 6 lows is enough for a decent tank but it leaves little room for damage mods. The PG, which is slightly lower than the Megathron, means there's not much chance of fitting anything larger than ions and those lows mean sacrificing a damage mod if you want to maintain the same tank you'd have on the Mega. However the extra gun, plus the cpu to fit T2 ions without running into serious fitting issues could mean its not too bad. (Though I haven't yet done the maths to see if the cpu is enough to support those extra mids and T2 ions... it might actually be rather tight) -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Crux Australis MotorSaikol LadrUNZ	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:04:00 - [87] Lol at the new Typhoon. Seriously... just lol (if these are final stats ofc). - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Frezik Detaurus isn't a person. It's a state of mind.
Shayla Sh'inlux Millennium	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:05:00 - [88] That's what everyone said when t2 ammo was on the test server market. We're 8 months in the future and we still have that bullsh!t on Sisi. I wouldn't be surprised if these ships go live with the stats they have now.
Tonya Nastee Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:05:00 - [89] Well i hope those stats are far from finished or fitting the hyperion will be bloody impossible. after fitting 8 neutron blaster cannon II (with AWU lvl 5) MWD II heavy elec cap injector Large armor rep II you owe -3376,1 PG and have 179,25 cpu with 4 med slots + 5 low slots left to fill
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:05:00 - [90] Originally by: Azerrad These are just the placeholder stats that have been around forever, yes? If so they are probably nothing like the final figures and really isn't worth even discussing. Discuss NOW, or if you don't know ccp, discuss and whine after they will be released - but then, expect a bonus change/slot layout change in 9 months. Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:06:00 - [91] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 15:10:59 Originally by: Crux Australis Lol at the new Typhoon. Seriously... just lol (if these are final stats ofc). Maelstrom is not trying to replace Typhoon. Or Tempest. Its supposed to be different and good at something else than those ships. We just dont know what that is yet. I hope these stats are wrong. I mean, since Rohk has 7 mediums and a built-in invulnerability field, it just needs to fit a shield boost amplifier and look at that - same bonus as the maelstrom AND 25% resistances to everything. Still 6 med slots free. Cool ship. Not to mention it will be able to use better ammo at any given range than anyone else, adding to its damage very significantly. 8 turrets with that damage bonus will hit for some sick damage. There is no point at all in choosing the Maelstrom unless you have to because you dont have the skills for the Rohk. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Janus Ovellian Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:08:00 - [92] Edited by: Janus Ovellian on 27/07/2006 15:11:37 Those stats for the maelstrom are quite interesting, in progress or not. Basically, that ships a massive ***.er which was built to tank and isn't going anywhere in a hurry. It can only lock 3 targets at once which means its firepower is going to be incredibly focused. If attacked by multiple targets it's going to need to be able to sustain it's shields between switching targets. And yet it has 6 med slots... But just look at that recharge rate! Thats a 25% bonus over the other ships of the class. If it had the resistance bonus of the Rokh rather than the boosting bonus it does have that would have made it the platform for the passive setup to end all others. As it stands, I'm a little uncertain. Reserving judgement, but optimistic. If it gets the 7th med everyones clamouring for it will undoubtedly be a fine ship. Otherwise... I'll wait and see. Hell, I might even make the logical progression from command cruiser to BS. Edit: the cargo capacity could prove troublesome as well considering the amount of ammo and cap booster charges that its going to need to hold. Interesting times await...*
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:11:00 - [93] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Crux Australis Lol at the new Typhoon. Seriously... just lol (if these are final stats ofc). Maelstrom is not trying to replace Typhoon. Or Tempest. Its supposed to be different and good at something else than those ships. We just dont know what that is yet. I hope these stats are wrong. Like the devs said, the discussion on ships' name was more instence that the future of the ships itself. If they were going to release the stats to the public, then at least think before writing. And you lads think about the whole thing for a second and draw conclusions. I've made a few for myself. Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:19:00 - [94] Originally by: Epsilon 1 And you lads think about the whole thing for a second and draw conclusions. I've made a few for myself. You wont be laughing unless you are Caldari or Gallente if you are wrong and these ships make it to Tranquility in their current form. And then its too late to comment on the stats. I'd rather see we do it now, IF these stats are real. The minmatar boat is really bad currently. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:20:00 - [95] i am close to tears here maelstrom as a closerangeboat is dead Why?: 8/6/6 layout, too few midslots for a gunneryboat to shield tank Mass/speed: 125.000.000 mass /115m/s in comparison: tempest has 102.500.000 mass / 140m/s, raven 110.000.000 mass / 115m/s (it will handle worse than a ***** raven) Sig radius: 460sig (in comparison tempest has 340 sig) has to use all 8 highslots for guns, so no Nos small cargobay: 550m3 (tempest has 600 m3) and this while using 33% more ammo than tempest the only minor plus is a 100m3 dronebay compared to 75m3 on tempest take all this and maelstrom is dead as acboat oke it seems then its designed to be a pure artillery boat, fair enough, but lets look at it then under that perspective whats wrong 7,5% to shieldboost amount per level, who in his right mind actively tanks a sniper BS in fleetfights? 7,5% to shieldboost amount per level, we got a crazy guy who actively tanks a sniper BS, HELLO, i need sensorboosters and trackingcomps, if you have ever shot something with artillery you know how important tracking mods are, so what 2sensorboosters, 2 tracking mods, and 2 slots left shield tank? (optimal is rather bad on arties so 1 tracking comp and 2 enhancers wont cut it imo, need 2 tracking comps and 1 enhancer) max locked targets 3, WTF?? why, this hurts this ship alot if its designed to be a specialized sniper sensor strenght 21 (tempest 19) well this is in line but again i would have thought a specialized sniper would be less vulnerable to ecm scan resolution 90mm (tempest 100mm, raven 85mm), whatever lower dmg modifier: i try to explain this, tempest has a higher dmg modifier per gun due to the dmg bonus, this way a single gun of the tempest does more dmg than one of the maelstrom. How is that important? Simple, Ships often die before you can send a full volley, or lag only lets you activate a few guns (thopse with fleet experience now, what I am talking about) you switch between targets often without having fired full volleys if you factor in this wasted unfired shots, then you get more dmg out of a tempest than a mealstrom, practically making the tempest the more damaging sniper, despite the maelstrom having an extra 0,75 turret over the tempest in addition to that the tempest has 2 free slots to use for antitacklerdefense or cruise missiles (only fitting 1 cruise missile launcher already gives you a higher nominal dps) My fazit: The maelstrom utterly fails in every aspect, the only thing it might be good is as a pve ship only, and even there it will be still outclassed by missile ships or the rokh (which has better initial tracking and 1 more mid slot for tanking) fellow Minmatars prepare to bend over, they are coming to you, hard and without lube Originally by:** Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Laboratus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:23:00 - [96] Would a 7.5%/lvl more armor/shield hp be better in the maelstorm? Mind control and tin hats
Crux Australis MotorSaikol LadrUNZ	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:23:00 - [97] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 15:10:59 Originally by: Crux Australis Lol at the new Typhoon. Seriously... just lol (if these are final stats ofc). Maelstrom is not trying to replace Typhoon. Or Tempest. Its supposed to be different and good at something else than those ships. We just dont know what that is yet. I hope these stats are wrong. I don't mean that it is the new Typhoon because it is trying to replace it. I mean that it is the new Typhoon because, as you said "Its supposed to be different and good at something else than those ships. We just dont know what that is yet." Ok, so let's see: what would the use of this ship? AC platform? No. Arty platform? We already have the Tempest doing the job. Wtf, was it worth to introduce a new BS that has 0,5 (!!!11one) more normalized turrets than the Tempy, is slow/heavy as ** and is 'forced' (if you don't want to waste 50% of the bonuses of the ship) to be a shield tank (the "but it can fit loads of EW" argument does not hold water, because the EW system is going to be revamped) ? I, for one, would have loved a MISSILE/ARMOR TANK boat, not this pile of crap. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by:** Frezik Detaurus isn't a person. It's a state of mind.
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:26:00 - [98] Swap the mael and rokh plzthanks.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:27:00 - [99] Originally by: Tiuwaz i am close to tears here Compare it to the Rohk and Hyperion and you will cry. Even the Abaddon looks like a pure ganker. If its supposed to be a artillery boat, it needs DMG bonus to make it a really good alpha strike boat. Also the boost bonus should be to armor. Noone shield tanks a artillery boat. Sorry to troll every thread, but this "balance" is just not acceptable. I cant find a single purpose for this ship that some other ship doesnt do better. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:28:00 - [100] 1) The Maelstrom needs 7 mids, if it's going to use either arty or ac's with a shield tank. 2) I hope 3 max locked targets is a joke 3) I have no issues with it being slower and fatter, but if it's going to have out usual drawbacks of low cap and hp totals compared to same tier ships, why are we slower and fatter with poor scan res too? I thought these were meant to balance eachother out, but now it seems we're getting the worst of both worlds, at least in these stats. Originally by: Lord Violent EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid being catered to by devs, as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:32:00 - [101] Oh ******* God I just looked at the Mael's speed and mass. That thing is never EVER having ACs
LukaG	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:32:00 - [102] Not impressed, hard to see what the Hyperion does better then the Mega. It can't tank as well and it doesn't come even close in terms of dmg, just seems to go faster. This needs some work but its just not going to happen is it. The Caldari ship seems good but no suprises there. I don't know, I hope these aren't the final stats tbh
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:33:00 - [103] Originally by: HippoKing Oh ******* God I just looked at the Mael's speed and mass. That thing is never EVER having ACs We know. Its supposed to be a slow artillery boat it seems. Also have a look at Hyperion mass and speed. Then compare it to Tempest. Then cry. Hyperion is the ship that minmatar should have gotten tbh. Faster, lighter with good damage. But since we got this boat im trying to find a purpose for it. Its not going too well. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:35:00 - [104] Why does Rokh have one more slot than the others? Thats a slot over the fracking Navy raven
Jaabaa Prime Dental Drilling Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:36:00 - [105] Who's idea was it to put a Burst targetting computer in a Maelstrom ?? Max 3 locked targets on a tier 3 BS If it's supposed to be a shield tank, then why only 6 mid slots ? Once again the Minmatar have been given a ship that is a master of nothing, and this one isn't even fast or agile I've always kept to Minmatar ships, but I think I'll have to finally bite the bullet and train one of the other race's BSs and weapons to lvl 5 -- Mini Skill Planner
Crux Australis MotorSaikol LadrUNZ	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:41:00 - [106] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime I've always kept to Minmatar ships, but I think I'll have to finally bite the bullet and train one of the other race's BSs and weapons to lvl 5 I am tempted as well, but I am not going to give up. I am investing bloody months into mastering the Typhoon in all of its aspects and may I be damned and forced to play WoW for the eternity if I don't do it! P.S. It's not like you'll have to spend hours brainstorming about which race's ships to fly (hint -> what race has almost all of the best of everything?)
Kazaam Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:44:00 - [107] Some of you really makes me laugh... yeah really... those are only PREMATURE stats, not the release ones... and you're already thinking of training a whole set of skills for another BS ? This is completely silly tbh... Rokh has been made to give a gunship to Cald to save pilots from taking a 2-week training for Megathron (99% of the cases). Wait the final stats before taking such decisions. And for the blockheads which will for sure go on whining, "QQ more idiots". _________________________________________
Rockpounder	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:53:00 - [108] The maelstrom with 3-4 nosses and a good shield tank is going to be a bit of trouble to take down. Could be fun for blaster pilots to try.
Xantina Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:54:00 - [109] I think I figured out the Maelstrom - it's a logical step up from the BELLICOSE cruiser which fills no role. So Bellicose pilots can now upgrade to a battleship that fills no role
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 15:55:00 - [110] Originally by: Kazaam Some of you really makes me laugh... yeah really... those are only PREMATURE stats, not the release ones... and you're already thinking of training a whole set of skills for another BS ? This is completely silly tbh... Rokh has been made to give a gunship to Cald to save pilots from taking a 2-week training for Megathron (99% of the cases). Wait the final stats before taking such decisions. And for the blockheads which will for sure go on whining, "QQ more idiots". you werent around when t2 ammo got released, werent you? Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Lumel Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:07:00 - [111] It might be that these were stats that Devs were kicking around at some point, but I'd personally believe that the screen shots must have been a joke designed to ellicit the responses they've gotten. As mentioned, the Caldari ship seems to have all the good stuff and the Minmatar one seems to have nothing going for it at all. Surely it's just a joke on the stereotypes that everyone slings around.. right? --- Knowledge won't help us understand
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:07:00 - [112] Maelstrom is not supposed to be an AC boat nor is it supposed to be used solo, get that through your head people. 7 mids with a tank bonus and weapons that use no cap are you people crazy? Caldari - BS idea
Tyler Lowe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:09:00 - [113] Not to break up the pity party or anything, because the Mael does rather look like a steaming dung heap given the preliminary stats, but aren't several modules being looked at/nerfed/fixed? I mean Nos, ECM, and several of the "useless" modules in game are supposed to be changing. Not that I am blindly optimistic, but if things like inertial stabs and flux coils are going to become useful in a way we haven't seen yet, who's to say this ship won't benefit from fitting them? If flux coils were reversed, say, and the ship were able to take a 10% hit on recharge and grab a 20% boost in shield strength (1650 recharge, 7680 base shields) It's still crap, but that's one mod with a theoretical change only. People keep saying, without NOS, this thing is toast. Sure, right now if you don't fit Nos, you're done. What if post Kali, the best Nos can do is throw someone into max regen? Finally, who is to say that the Caldari pilots won't be screaming that they want the extra low post change, and that a 7th mid instead isn't fair? That last is probably a reach, but I'm trying to make a point. Testy had it right in his thread. We're not seeing the whole picture, and that goes for more than ship stats. There are a great many things changing, not just these ships coming out. The framework in which they are being viewed is skewed by current mechanics. I don't know if the changes will be enough. I'm in wait and see mode. J.A.F.O.
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:15:00 - [114] Man Rokh is one fat *****. Caldari - BS idea
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:16:00 - [115] Originally by: Tyler Lowe Not to break up the pity party or anything, because the Mael does rather look like a steaming dung heap given the preliminary stats, but aren't several modules being looked at/nerfed/fixed? I mean Nos, ECM, and several of the "useless" modules in game are supposed to be changing. Not that I am blindly optimistic, but if things like inertial stabs and flux coils are going to become useful in a way we haven't seen yet, who's to say this ship won't benefit from fitting them? If flux coils were reversed, say, and the ship were able to take a 10% hit on recharge and grab a 20% boost in shield strength (1650 recharge, 7680 base shields) It's still crap, but that's one mod with a theoretical change only. People keep saying, without NOS, this thing is toast. Sure, right now if you don't fit Nos, you're done. What if post Kali, the best Nos can do is throw someone into max regen? Finally, who is to say that the Caldari pilots won't be screaming that they want the extra low post change, and that a 7th mid instead isn't fair? That last is probably a reach, but I'm trying to make a point. Testy had it right in his thread. We're not seeing the whole picture, and that goes for more than ship stats. There are a great many things changing, not just these ships coming out. The framework in which they are being viewed is skewed by current mechanics. I don't know if the changes will be enough. I'm in wait and see mode. All the coming module improvements will be available to every other race as well. I dont think its fair to minmatar pilots to sit and hope for some fixed module to come and give their ship a purpose. Well, we'll see. Maybe this is just a joke after all and I will feel stupid for complaining about it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Synapse Archae Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:21:00 - [116] Why does the blaster boat need 6 mids? What will it do with that other than 1 cap recharger and 5 scramblers? Maybe scram 3 ships and web 2? seems a bit insane to me. --------------------------------------------- http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=349194&page=1Redo Fleets[/ur
Renox Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:24:00 - [117] I agree on much said in this thread and think they need a bit more thought, but it's mostly a good starting point. I fail to see the reason for the HUGE sig radius of the ships. They range from 460 to 500. As I fly mostly gal ships the Hyperions sig of 485 (second highest) far too large. It hurts that ship a lot because it's meant to go in close where that will start to matter quite a bit together with the tracking of your opponents guns. A Rok 250km out doesn't really have a disadvantage of having a 500m sig as anything that can shoot that far can track it due to the low speed, but at 3 km or 4 km the hyperions sig will make a difference. But I think the sig rad of the whole bunch should be looked at and possibly lowered. TheJay > grrr slow stupid garlic eating surrender monkeys
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:33:00 - [118] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. It's a revered EVE tradition, Tuxford. I'm glad you appreciate it. ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here! Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:34:00 - [119] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. It would help if you could give us some updated stats to panic over. :)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:34:00 - [120] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 16:34:46 Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. No offense, but why dont you post some real info about them then, instead of sitting back and laughing at us. How are we supposed to know how old these stats are? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
EvilNate Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:35:00 - [121] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 16:34:46 Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. No offense, but why dont you post some real info about them then, instead of sitting back and laughing at us. How are we supposed to know how old these stats are? Cause it's more fun to watch ppl panic Hell, it's fun for us to start watching you panic too. Nate.
Crux Australis MotorSaikol LadrUNZ	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:36:00 - [122] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. tech 2 ammo? QFMFT
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:36:00 - [123] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. So its sure we wont see the mealstrom as it was on Testserver? From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:36:00 - [124] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. tech 2 ammo? Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:36:00 - [125] Originally by: Synapse Archae Why does the blaster boat need 6 mids? What will it do with that other than 1 cap recharger and 5 scramblers? Maybe scram 3 ships and web 2? seems a bit insane to me. what is isane to you opens possibilities to other ppl . LIke 2 sensor boosters, 1 web, 1 disrupter, cap battery , mwd. or 1 sendor booster, 1 web, 1 tracking comp, 1 disrupter / scrambler, cap battery , mwd. 6 mids is perfect
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:38:00 - [126] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. Then give us something better. After the introducton of t2 ammo in RMR, I'd rather whine and at least be able to say "Told you so...."
Melkor Bloodaxe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:38:00 - [127] Edited by: Melkor Bloodaxe on 27/07/2006 16:38:48 Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. Can you give us some up-to-date stats to whine about, Tux? lol... ____ "Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?" -HippoKing- TEAM MINMATAR - In Rust We Trust -

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:39:00 - [128] I would if it was finished, or more finished. Also with SISI not up to date I think its kind of pointless. The blog was mostly about the designs not about stats. The thing is instead of assuming stats and then panic about them you should actually be thinking about what kind of stats they need to have to be balanced. I'm confident that the design the way it is can be balanced, although Abaddon still scares the crap out of me. Some bonuses might be changed, or at least me and Hammer aren't terribly fond of the Hyperion MWD bonus, its basically apoc's cap bonus but only works some of the time. _______________


Tuxford	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:40:00 - [129] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. So its sure we wont see the mealstrom as it was on Testserver? Double rate of fire bonus, I don't think so. _______________

Idara Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:42:00 - [130] Edited by: Idara on 27/07/2006 16:44:09 Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. Oh thank ******* god... That would've been quite the load of crap to have the stats actually be even close to the ones in the screenshot. Originally by: Tuxford I would if it was finished, or more finished. Also with SISI not up to date I think its kind of pointless. The blog was mostly about the designs not about stats. The thing is instead of assuming stats and then panic about them you should actually be thinking about what kind of stats they need to have to be balanced. I'm confident that the design the way it is can be balanced, although Abaddon still scares the crap out of me. Some bonuses might be changed, or at least me and Hammer aren't terribly fond of the Hyperion MWD bonus, its basically apoc's cap bonus but only works some of the time. TRACKING BONUS DAMMIT! PLEASE FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY AND SWEET!
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:43:00 - [131] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: HippoKing Oh ******* God I just looked at the Mael's speed and mass. That thing is never EVER having ACs We know. Its supposed to be a slow artillery boat it seems. Also have a look at Hyperion mass and speed. Then compare it to Tempest. Then cry. Hyperion is the ship that minmatar should have gotten tbh. Faster, lighter with good damage. But since we got this boat im trying to find a purpose for it. Its not going too well. you and many others dont seem to get it Minmatar got a NPC ship now. as it has working PVP ships allready. Well that is how I see it anyways.
Melkor Bloodaxe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:43:00 - [132] Originally by: Tuxford snip The thing is instead of assuming stats and then panic about them you should actually be thinking about what kind of stats they need to have to be balanced.[/b] snip I think we can bring Sarmaul to the front for our Maelstrom ____ "Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?" -HippoKing- TEAM MINMATAR - In Rust We Trust -
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:44:00 - [133] Obviously people have never worked before. If you spend all your time communicating and checking with everyone that everything is ok you will get NOTHING done. Then you'd complain about the time its taking to release them. I hope Tux didn't waste time reading all the whine threads. Thank you for confirming that these arn't the stats so we can tell people to stfu complaining about a no-existant ship. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:45:00 - [134] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. So its sure we wont see the mealstrom as it was on Testserver? Double rate of fire bonus, I don't think so. come on please :D and I wont moan about minmatars for the next month, promised or wait when you dont do it I will snipe 1000 starters in rancer with the rokh to sacrifice their frozen corps to compensate for my sadness From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Crux Australis MotorSaikol LadrUNZ	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:45:00 - [135] Originally by: Tuxford I would if it was finished, or more finished. Also with SISI not up to date I think its kind of pointless. The blog was mostly about the designs not about stats. The thing is instead of assuming stats and then panic about them you should actually be thinking about what kind of stats they need to have to be balanced. The Maelstrom needs to have 3/4 mids, have 8/7 lows, lose both of its bonuses and gain a 5%/lvl bonus on cruise and torps damage and a 7,5%/lvl bonus on TP efficiency. Here it is.
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:46:00 - [136] Originally by: Tuxford I would if it was finished, or more finished. Also with SISI not up to date I think its kind of pointless. The blog was mostly about the designs not about stats. The thing is instead of assuming stats and then panic about them you should actually be thinking about what kind of stats they need to have to be balanced. I'm confident that the design the way it is can be balanced, although Abaddon still scares the crap out of me. Some bonuses might be changed, or at least me and Hammer aren't terribly fond of the Hyperion MWD bonus, its basically apoc's cap bonus but only works some of the time. Make the Hyperion MWD bonus so that MWD wont reduce the overall cap amount at all , or usage of mwd requires 50% less cap or something. So hyperion pilots dont need to worry about using it. And lets keep it as a pvp ship . we have enough of mission running ships allready. thanks . Keep up the good work Tux
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:48:00 - [137] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 27/07/2006 16:49:31 I am not terribly fond of the shieldboosting bonus, but then i am not a dev ;P i am well aware that currrently you are still working on it and that some things might change or not, but the important point is, will we actually get to see the final stats and enough time to comment on them before they go live? i seriously dont want another typhoon for which we have to wait 2-3 years before it gets changed You want comments on how to balance them, then i'd like a biut more calrification on the maelstrom's role plz will it be designed for longrange, closrrange or able to do both, just 'good at tanking' is a bit of vague for the other 3 i think we know somehow what roles they gonna fit (caldari and gallente got very specific roles, amarr seems to be hard to incorporate the intended vision) but for maelstrom i have little idea what its supposed to do besides tank well :/ (for this post i now ignored completely the stats in screenie and went with tux's devblog) Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Lowa Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:50:00 - [138] This is all speculations since the finished product is far from ready. The Rohk will be a very nice fleet boat. You will find your self with: - A direct fire ship (damage output in fleets are not important, no. of guns is) - That can have 6 or even 7 slots of Electronic Warfare. Instant damage with the possibility of rendering your enemy targetless. Lowslots for a small passive tank and power/cpu. I see good stuff here. Not that it matters since "these are not the stats we are looking for." Cheers, Lowa NSN - Forcing EVE reviewers to mine since 2003!
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:55:00 - [139] Originally by: Glarion Garnier Make the Hyperion MWD bonus so that MWD wont reduce the overall cap amount at all , or usage of mwd requires 50% less cap or something. So hyperion pilots dont need to worry about using it. And lets keep it as a pvp ship . we have enough of mission running ships allready. thanks . Keep up the good work Tux Large MWD use way to much cap as it is. A 10% reduction in MWD cap use would be a much more useful bonus than a reduction to the MWD penalty ever would.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 16:57:00 - [140] Stats were fake. Let the thread die. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tyler Lowe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 17:06:00 - [141] Originally by: Jim McGregor All the coming module improvements will be available to every other race as well. I dont think its fair to minmatar pilots to sit and hope for some fixed module to come and give their ship a purpose. Well, we'll see. Maybe this is just a joke after all and I will feel stupid for complaining about it. That's not really what I'm getting at. What if they've decided that tracking enhancers ought to have the better range enhancement and very little tracking benefit, while tracking computers offer better tracking, but much less range? You'd be obliged when stacking mods to run a mid and a low, not two mids in order to be most effective with artillery. Tux just said in essence, take the stats with a grain of salt, because things have changed. I'm just pointing out that ship stats are not the only thing that may change. The relative importance of low vs mid slot may have changed, espescially with regard to specific ships and their roles. To say that a mod will just as easily fit on a ship with one less low isn't entirely true. In a nutshell: It's pointless getting upset before you see the whole thing. J.A.F.O.

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.07.27 17:14:00 - [142] Originally by: Tyler Lowe I'm just pointing out that ship stats are not the only thing that may change. The relative importance of low vs mid slot may have changed, espescially with regard to specific ships and their roles. To say that a mod will just as easily fit on a ship with one less low isn't entirely true. In a nutshell: It's pointless getting upset before you see the whole thing. This is actually an excellent point. Some other channges will come in when the battleships come in. For exemple I've mentioned somewhere that we are looking at ECM, we're also looking into a range reduction, whether that will be by direct or indirect means is not for sure yet, but I hope we will stop seeing every ship with a +200km range. Also there is the new system scanning. So you see there are a lot of interlinking features which you can't really connect properly together without "hands on" experience. Hopefully we will get SISI soon to play around with these new tweaks and features. _______________

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 17:19:00 - [143] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Tyler Lowe I'm just pointing out that ship stats are not the only thing that may change. The relative importance of low vs mid slot may have changed, espescially with regard to specific ships and their roles. To say that a mod will just as easily fit on a ship with one less low isn't entirely true. In a nutshell: It's pointless getting upset before you see the whole thing. This is actually an excellent point. Some other channges will come in when the battleships come in. For exemple I've mentioned somewhere that we are looking at ECM, we're also looking into a range reduction, whether that will be by direct or indirect means is not for sure yet, but I hope we will stop seeing every ship with a +200km range. Also there is the new system scanning. So you see there are a lot of interlinking features which you can't really connect properly together without "hands on" experience. Hopefully we will get SISI soon to play around with these new tweaks and features. I do agree about the relative importance of slots. But this thread is filled with crap now, so I think we need new ones. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 17:21:00 - [144] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Tyler Lowe I'm just pointing out that ship stats are not the only thing that may change. The relative importance of low vs mid slot may have changed, espescially with regard to specific ships and their roles. To say that a mod will just as easily fit on a ship with one less low isn't entirely true. In a nutshell: It's pointless getting upset before you see the whole thing. This is actually an excellent point. Some other channges will come in when the battleships come in. For exemple I've mentioned somewhere that we are looking at ECM, we're also looking into a range reduction, whether that will be by direct or indirect means is not for sure yet, but I hope we will stop seeing every ship with a +200km range. Also there is the new system scanning. So you see there are a lot of interlinking features which you can't really connect properly together without "hands on" experience. Hopefully we will get SISI soon to play around with these new tweaks and features. Well, Tux, I know there's been a whole lot of ****e posted, but there's been a lot of good stuff posted about the proposed Tier 3 battleships. I hope it's enough to give you some food for thought as you finalise the slot layouts and final stats on em. But if not, evemail me and I'll tell you exactly what to do :P
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.07.27 17:35:00 - [145] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. Although Im a proponent of 'wait and see', you have to admit, there's plenty of precedent for us to worry about things for this reason. /me pokes T2 ammo Originally by: Lord Violent EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid being catered to by devs, as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Xantina Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.07.27 17:40:00 - [146] Edited by: Xantina on 27/07/2006 17:40:29 Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. Could it be they're ... let's see, we have July 27 ... that they're 117 days out of date ?
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:13:00 - [147] Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet?
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:17:00 - [148] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 27/07/2006 18:20:48 Originally by: HippoKing Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet? They introduced high damage ammo when they were nerfing stacking, including damage mod stacking, and precision missiles were introduced after the whole rebalancing of missiles... so it's not that odd, maybe even consistent in some ways... I'd not be worried about the range bonus of the rokh as long as t2 ammo is as it is, anyway. NB.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:18:00 - [149] Originally by: HippoKing Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet? Kind of yeah. But on the other hand this ship goes way past the 250KM barrier. So if they were for example to half ranges then it'd still be viable, as the longest range ship.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:27:00 - [150] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. Tux, I love you to death and all... But.... I really, really, really hope you make sure the synergy between the ship stats, slots and weapon systems work in tandem. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:28:00 - [151] Originally by: HippoKing Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet? If we're going for direct range nerf like frigates 1, cruisers 1.5 and battleship 2, then Rokh wouldn't really be the longest ranged ship would it , Then again we might not do it anyway and it needs massive massive amount of testing. _______________

Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:29:00 - [152] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: HippoKing Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet? If we're going for direct range nerf like frigates 1, cruisers 1.5 and battleship 2, then Rokh wouldn't really be the longest ranged ship would it , Then again we might not do it anyway and it needs massive massive amount of testing. Tuxford, PLEASE don't do that. ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here! Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:30:00 - [153] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: HippoKing Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet? If we're going for direct range nerf like frigates 1, cruisers 1.5 and battleship 2, then Rokh wouldn't really be the longest ranged ship would it , Then again we might not do it anyway and it needs massive massive amount of testing. It would indeed. Might be interesting to see, and would help with the short-warp phenomenon as well. You would have to change EVERYTHING along with it though: lock range, agility, tracking, sentry range, comparative other module ranges (scrams/webs/EW). Good luck with it
Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:32:00 - [154] Originally by: Tuxford If we're going for direct range nerf like frigates 1, cruisers 1.5 and battleship 2, then Rokh wouldn't really be the longest ranged ship would it , Then again we might not do it anyway and it needs massive massive amount of testing. ? Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:37:00 - [155] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: HippoKing Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet? If we're going for direct range nerf like frigates 1, cruisers 1.5 and battleship 2, then Rokh wouldn't really be the longest ranged ship would it , Then again we might not do it anyway and it needs massive massive amount of testing. Tuxford, PLEASE don't do that. Scared? Scares the crap out of me too, and tbh I rather like more the indirect approach now. But anyway lets not derail this thread, on that just keep in mind that standard fleet ranges might not always be at +200km. _______________

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:39:00 - [156] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 18:40:03 Originally by: Tuxford But anyway lets not derail this thread You are not... its actually about talking to you now. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:42:00 - [157] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: HippoKing Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet? If we're going for direct range nerf like frigates 1, cruisers 1.5 and battleship 2, then Rokh wouldn't really be the longest ranged ship would it , Then again we might not do it anyway and it needs massive massive amount of testing. Tuxford, PLEASE don't do that. Scared? Scares the crap out of me too, and tbh I rather like more the indirect approach now. But anyway lets not derail this thread, on that just keep in mind that standard fleet ranges might not always be at +200km. Why not just change T2 ammos into T1 ammos + something special? T2 ammos + Tier 3 BS = Insta-torpedo. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:50:00 - [158] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. I think your blog is more reason to panic, and thats very recent. You don't need outdated stats to tell you they'll be replacing certain ships entirely, and screwing up fleet combat even moreso. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Nova Strikes STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:53:00 - [159] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No, not even with sugar on top. You also got 6800 base shield, and of course, the 7 medium slots. Enjoy... Ta. Im a Caldari pilot, not currently in game but even i a hated caldari see this as unfair. Give the Maelstrom a ressistance bonus to shields or something, or instead just give them an armor tanker like they want. Im guessing they want a counter to the gellente up close blaster monster, if they want it then let em have it. The temp can stay as the fleet arty. Oh and im happy with the look of the tier 3 cali
madaluap Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 18:55:00 - [160] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. I think your blog is more reason to panic, and thats very recent. You don't need outdated stats to tell you they'll be replacing certain ships entirely, and screwing up fleet combat even moreso. Yep, allthough tier 3 ammar uses a lot of cap, it still is a armageddon with +25% resistances and 8 guns... the tier 3 gallente totally replaces the megathron, mega will only pwn for sniping now. tier 3 caldari is fine tier 3 minmatar, i dont know. Most people think its role will be useless. Thats my main problem: the lack of roles. I only see the BS we have now replaced by better ships... Give dampening some love and make a -7.5% bonus to each damp/lvl tier 3 gallente bs make a ammarian dronecarrier with some extra medslot, but less tank in low minmatar get targetpainting bonus offcourse _________________________________________________
Laboratus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 19:04:00 - [161] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Why not just change T2 ammos into T1 ammos + something special? T2 ammos + Tier 3 BS = Insta-torpedo. Yea, something along the lines of warp distruption or cap damage or random module deactivations, or ecm effect, or something like that. Could be cool. Say ECM effect with scramble str1. This would encourage spreading fire around, instead of concentrated fire. 2 birds with 1 stone. Mind control and tin hats
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.27 19:12:00 - [162] TBH, my major issue is with the hyperion making the AC tempest obsolescent. It already cannot stand against a blasterthron thanks to reaction time and lag without either letting the blasterthron into range or letting it get out of scramble range (assuming the blasterthron pilot is competent, anyway), but now there will be a ship that can match or exceed the tempest's speed, making it flat-out impossible to hold the distance open. This does not even take Null L into account, which changes the dynamics even further. To me, this spells the death of the AC tempest - any of the three gallente battleships will own it in a 1-v-1, and Gallente ships are the most popular for solo work atm. In any case, all I can ask is that you rethink the hyperion's speed and MWD bonus, and that you also look into the ACs-vs-blasters balance in your copious free time. Oh, and do something about arty, too, please - it doesn't hit hard enough since the ship hitpoint increase. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
FireLord Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 19:14:00 - [163] Originally by: Xantina I think I figured out the Maelstrom - it's a logical step up from the BELLICOSE cruiser which fills no role. So Bellicose pilots can now upgrade to a battleship that fills no role wait a minute. . .theres someone out there that actually flies a bellicose?
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.07.27 19:29:00 - [164] We all know you hate Amarr Tuxford. But would it cause you THAT much pain to reply to the Amarr thread? Game balance ftw
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.27 19:38:00 - [165] Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. well we are on the internet, what did you expect? ___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile.
Emperor D'Hoffryn Low Grade Ore HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:07:00 - [166] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. I think your blog is more reason to panic, and thats very recent. You don't need outdated stats to tell you they'll be replacing certain ships entirely, and screwing up fleet combat even moreso. Yep, allthough tier 3 ammar uses a lot of cap, it still is a armageddon with +25% resistances and 8 guns... the tier 3 gallente totally replaces the megathron, mega will only pwn for sniping now. tier 3 caldari is fine tier 3 minmatar, i dont know. Most people think its role will be useless. Thats my main problem: the lack of roles. I only see the BS we have now replaced by better ships... Give dampening some love and make a -7.5% bonus to each damp/lvl tier 3 gallente bs make a ammarian dronecarrier with some extra medslot, but less tank in low <-------OH GOD YES minmatar get targetpainting bonus offcourse null why oh why cant amarr get something different that lots of guns, weak sensors, no ecm Battleships? It time for something different, not an Arma replacement. Apoc doesnt even register for comparison, unless we are talking about mining, and even then, with the resist bonus, the abaddon will be better for solo 0.0 mining that the apoc. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Xiliath JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:15:00 - [167] I'm gonna comment on all the 4 since i could fly them all and would like to see them balanced. Maelstrom I would seriously die for 7 mid slots on the Maelstrom instead of six, I like shield tanking much more than armor tanking and would like a dedicated shield tank minmatar BS, and to use it as a long range artillary boat it'll need it for fitting sensor boosters and tracking computers. Hyperion I didn't really like the MWD Bonus on the Vindicator and don't think it'd be very good on this ship. A 8/6/6 slot layout would be an interesting thing to test out, give gallente flyers some new things to try, but I think maybe a ROF and Damage bonus would be nice, I mean with 6 mids and 6 lows you're versatile but not really any kind of dedicated tanker, so maybe giving it more damage would balance it out. Abaddon This ship I can honestly say I have nothing I'd like to change about it, I like it as an 8/4/8 with the ROF and 5% resist per lvl bonuses. Rokh I think the proposed 10% optimal and 5% resist bonuses are great, and I think an 8/7/5 layout is nice, I thought for a bit maybe a 8/6/6 slot setup would be a nice change for caldari fliers and give them enough low slots to fit damage mods and any thing else they may see necessary for low slots but i think that may bring it a half-step lower then the rest.
Traderguy	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:21:00 - [168] Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 11:43:04 I stole this from Chribba in another thread. Think it deserves its own thread. Screenshot looking at the screenie I see that "Capacitor" is spelled "Capacity" anyone explain that? or am i missing something, is this just a players edited graphics of what he wants the new ships to be?
Spuki Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:27:00 - [169] Rokh I think the proposed 10% optimal and 5% resist bonuses are great, and I think an 8/7/5 layout is nice, I thought for a bit maybe a 8/6/6 slot setup would be a nice change for caldari fliers and give them enough low slots to fit damage mods and any thing else they may see necessary for low slots but i think that may bring it a half-step lower then the rest. I think 7 mids are fine, as we will need a few of them for sensor boosters to make use of our range bonus and a few of them for shield tanking stuff as well. Otherwise we wont be able to take advantage of at least one ship bonus.
Shadowsword Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:29:00 - [170] Originally by: Tuxford I would if it was finished, or more finished. Also with SISI not up to date I think its kind of pointless. The blog was mostly about the designs not about stats. The thing is instead of assuming stats and then panic about them you should actually be thinking about what kind of stats they need to have to be balanced. I'm confident that the design the way it is can be balanced, although Abaddon still scares the crap out of me. Some bonuses might be changed, or at least me and Hammer aren't terribly fond of the Hyperion MWD bonus, its basically apoc's cap bonus but only works some of the time. Scare you in what way? For a potential to become the new "OMG 600 DPS in your face at 180 clicks" fleet ship, or because it's voracious cap hunger could make it almost unused? And as I see it the "panic" is caused in part because of a feeling of time pressure, as we all know that when an unbalanced thing goes live, there's no telling how long it will take to be corrected. Anyway, back on topic. You want a debate over the ship concepts, so here's my input: give the Abaddon 4 missile slots. The design is basically made to have two modes: - full damage: 8 laser guns and each of the 8 weapons benefits for the damage mods fitted. - full tank: but the problem is that tank without at least some semi-decent damage is virtually useless, so it need to still do some semi-decent damage. One answer is to fit a full rack of hybrids or projectile guns. With damage mods on top of that, I guess you could easily get an apocalypse-like DPS level, while your tank would be a little better. More resists, but less sustainability because of the lack of cap bonus. That would make it a good ship for pve farming and the like, and give amar players some damage versatility, the one thing Amarrs need most, imho. The second answer, the one I favor, would be a mix of lasers and missiles. More in line with the background, more damage versatility, limited fof capability, and the damage still wouldn't be anything to write home about. And by mixed weaponry, you cut a lot of the temptation to fit damage mods for non-laser weapons and still reach the nice-DPS/good tank combo you wish to avoid. ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy.
Xiliath JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:34:00 - [171] I suppose you're right Spuki, I figured you might be able to take advantage more from an extra low, because you already have excellent tracking. But I see no problem with an 8/7/5, i think it's well in line with the others.
Laboratus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:41:00 - [172] Originally by: Xiliath Hyperion I didn't really like the MWD Bonus on the Vindicator and don't think it'd be very good on this ship. A 8/6/6 slot layout would be an interesting thing to test out, give gallente flyers some new things to try, but I think maybe a ROF and Damage bonus would be nice, I mean with 6 mids and 6 lows you're versatile but not really any kind of dedicated tanker, so maybe giving it more damage would balance it out. Even though a ROF bonus is more in line with Amarrian/Minmatari way of thinking, a Blaster boat with both damage and ROF boni. Now that would be something. As Blaster boats traditionally suffer from chronic cap problems, we could have a ship that dashes out 1600 to 1800 dps for a whole 40 to 120 secs before finally running out of cap. Would be cool, I have to admit. I'd love to see one in action, but to be honest, having a one shot ship, that in ideal conditions survives a bit over a minute, that costs around 160 to 250M with fittings, is a wee bit too much for my wallet. Love the idea though. Mind control and tin hats
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.07.27 20:57:00 - [173] Originally by: Xiliath I suppose you're right Spuki, I figured you might be able to take advantage more from an extra low, because you already have excellent tracking. But I see no problem with an 8/7/5, i think it's well in line with the others. IMO, 8/6/6 would give the Rokh much greater fitting flexibily. That extra low slot provides the option of armor tanking, allow for fitting both damage mods for split weapon configs, allow for sig amps to be used (freeing up a sensor booster mid slot), etc. In an 8/7/5 config, the Rokh gets constricted to the role of a shield tanking, rail mounting, long range engagement platform. Having a 6th low slot will allow the Rokh some role flexibility and that is more valuable than having a super shield tank. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
Taurgil Balanced Unity	Posted - 2006.07.27 21:31:00 - [174] Edited by: Taurgil on 27/07/2006 21:31:42 Originally by: Tuxford Some bonuses might be changed, or at least me and Hammer aren't terribly fond of the Hyperion MWD bonus, its basically apoc's cap bonus but only works some of the time. Yarr, good news. Saved my day.
Ithildin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 21:38:00 - [175] Originally by: Tuxford Some bonuses might be changed, or at least me and Hammer aren't terribly fond of the Hyperion MWD bonus, its basically apoc's cap bonus but only works some of the time. So, it's a battleship. It's the size of a small city already. How about a 5% reduced MWD penalties period. (i.e. at level 5 you experience a ~4% reduction in capacitor and a ~4% increase in sig radius) Adds a bit of a flare since it's not like there's many weapons it'd srew over compared to if a cruiser got the same bonus. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 21:44:00 - [176] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Tuxford Some bonuses might be changed, or at least me and Hammer aren't terribly fond of the Hyperion MWD bonus, its basically apoc's cap bonus but only works some of the time. So, it's a battleship. It's the size of a small city already. How about a 5% reduced MWD penalties period. (i.e. at level 5 you experience a ~4% reduction in capacitor and a ~4% increase in sig radius) Adds a bit of a flare since it's not like there's many weapons it'd srew over compared to if a cruiser got the same bonus. Would kinda like that. It helps the hyperion to approach, and not to get raped by rage torps once in range From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 22:22:00 - [177] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. You lost all right to use that excuse with T2 ammo . Originally by: Melkor Bloodaxe Originally by: Tuxford snip The thing is instead of assuming stats and then panic about them you should actually be thinking about what kind of stats they need to have to be balanced.[/b] snip I think we can bring Sarmaul to the front for our Maelstrom o/ 8/7/4. Lets it run a 3 slot tank (XL Booster, Twin Invul) and the shield boost bonus will give it an extra 7.5% over an XL Booster + Boost Amp + Twin Invul setup, it can fit a cap injector, web, scrambler and speed mod (the vitals for close-range battleships). It can fit 3 damage mods and a damage control, but the difference is that it can't fit 2 nos like the pest unless it kills it's damage output. I would rather like the ship to be able to fit a MWD with Dual 425mm IIs and an AB with Dual 650mm IIs and 800mm IIs (much like the tempest). Anything less than 7 midslots and it will suck, unless you are planning on giving battleship guns frigate tracking in the near future. Sarm, can you check out my post in the "Maelstrom: What bonuses should have been" post. Its on page 2 and im trying to analyze exacly why it needs 7 mediums. Please comment on that one, specially since i took the Tempest sniping setup from you. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
LORD ROB	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:03:00 - [178] w000t, another useless minnie ship!
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:12:00 - [179] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. You lost all right to use that excuse with T2 ammo . Originally by: Melkor Bloodaxe Originally by: Tuxford snip The thing is instead of assuming stats and then panic about them you should actually be thinking about what kind of stats they need to have to be balanced.[/b] snip I think we can bring Sarmaul to the front for our Maelstrom o/ 8/7/4. Lets it run a 3 slot tank (XL Booster, Twin Invul) and the shield boost bonus will give it an extra 7.5% over an XL Booster + Boost Amp + Twin Invul setup, it can fit a cap injector, web, scrambler and speed mod (the vitals for close-range battleships). It can fit 3 damage mods and a damage control, but the difference is that it can't fit 2 nos like the pest unless it kills it's damage output. I would rather like the ship to be able to fit a MWD with Dual 425mm IIs and an AB with Dual 650mm IIs and 800mm IIs (much like the tempest). Anything less than 7 midslots and it will suck, unless you are planning on giving battleship guns frigate tracking in the near future. What would be the point of the Tempest? It would be an inferior AC and Arty boat. Caldari - BS idea
Zanon Xiu	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:26:00 - [180] ok i admit i skimmed the posts but i belive no one said it all 3 ships will make perfect mining ships runs and hides
Praenor Eve University The Big Blue	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:29:00 - [181] Edited by: Praenor on 27/07/2006 23:30:41 Originally by: Tuxford Scared? Scares the crap out of me too, and tbh I rather like more the indirect approach now. But anyway lets not derail this thread, on that just keep in mind that standard fleet ranges might not always be at +200km. Tuxford requesting that a thread titled "Tuxford fooled us" not be derailed I, for one, am looking forward to the new ships! And, yeah, a nerf of sensor boosters, or whatever will fix fleet ranges.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:56:00 - [182] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol What would be the point of the Tempest? It would be an inferior AC and Arty boat. Tempest will almost always out damage the Maelstrom and it will use less ammo so its better for long term engagements. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ketrin	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:45:00 - [183] OMG NOT OLD AND NOT VALID! /me shoots himself in the right leg pinky
Cohkka LoneWolf Mining R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:46:00 - [184] Appart from the Rokh I think the tier 3 ships are pretty much halfarsed, tbh. Tuxford had the option to introduce a new tier 1 or a tier 2 ship (bigger = better?, I don't think so). With the additional slot he's now trying hard to not make them overpowered and the other BS obsolete. What happened is that, appart from the Rokh, these ships didn't create any new niches, instead they do the jobs of the lower tier BS. I mean, why do Gallente need a new Blasterboat if Megathron could do it either when the problems with cap and agility were fixed in first place? Why do Minmatar need an... is it an AC or an Artilery boat(?)... if the Tempest can do both? And why do Amarr need the Abaddon if they can do the same for much less isk with the Apoc and Geddon? Yes, I'm pretty much frustrated about the "creativity" of our Devs... Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
GPerson Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:30:00 - [185] I have just one question. Where the frick are you guys getting all these detailed stats? ~ I highly recommend drunken posting.
Vera Nosfyu Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:47:00 - [186] Some come from the dev blog. Relating to bonuses and such. Everything else is just hearsay and conjecture. And how we forum junkies love our hearsay and conjecture. ----------------------------------------------------------- "Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 06:20:00 - [187] Originally by: GPerson I have just one question. Where the frick are you guys getting all these detailed stats? Mine point of view comes str8 from the dev blog. Maelstron gets 1 RoF bonus and 8 turrets which will be out damaged by the 6 on teh tempest and its RoF and Damage bonus. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ishana Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 07:16:00 - [188] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: GPerson I have just one question. Where the frick are you guys getting all these detailed stats? Mine point of view comes str8 from the dev blog. Maelstron gets 1 RoF bonus and 8 turrets which will be out damaged by the 6 on teh tempest and its RoF and Damage bonus. That's not actually what Tux said. Quote: but Maelstrom's 8 turrets do outdamage Tempest's 6 turrets. When we factor in the two high slots that Tempest has it does outdamage the Maelstrom. Which means that the Maelstrom doesn't outdamage the Tempest ONLY when the Tempest uses it's 7th and 8th slot for launchers. (probably cruise or siege) BUT in fleet fights hardly anyone uses those slots for cruise or siege, so the Maelstrom actually does outdamage the Tempest in that role. (it also has a lot higher alpha strike) Now in an AC situation the Tempest can outdamage the mealstrom, but I suspect that the Maelstrom's superior tank would make up for that. Also the Maelstrom has an extra midslot, which could lead to people fitting an extra gyrostab in their lows, because they can use a mid for say a tracking computer instead of a tracking enhancer. Also note that the Maelstroms drone bay is 25m3 larger then the Tempest, so it could take an additional heavy drone with it. Overall I'd say the Tempest will become obsolete... _________________________________________________________
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 07:31:00 - [189] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. It's a revered EVE tradition, Tuxford. I'm glad you appreciate it. Been happening for going on ( however long the testserver exists )
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 07:35:00 - [190] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. I think your blog is more reason to panic, and thats very recent. You don't need outdated stats to tell you they'll be replacing certain ships entirely, and screwing up fleet combat even moreso. Now that is something else entirely. And I kindoff agree.
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 07:48:00 - [191] Originally by: Ishana Which means that the Maelstrom doesn't outdamage the Tempest ONLY when the Tempest uses it's 7th and 8th slot for launchers. (probably cruise or siege) BUT in fleet fights hardly anyone uses those slots for cruise or siege, so the Maelstrom actually does outdamage the Tempest in that role. (it also has a lot higher alpha strike) come again? Tempest alphastrike has an equivalent of 7,5 turrets, while maelstroms aplhastrike has an equivalent of 8 turrets. Thats 0,5 turrets more or 6,25% higher alpha strike. Fo me thats not alot sorry :/ Also keep in mind that you have to actually have to be able to fire a full volley, to gaina higher alphastrike. Which often you wont be able to. (target dies too fast to get a full volley off, or lag for instance) In this case the Tempest will the better sniper do to the higher dmg modifier of a single gun. also the tempest has 2 free highslots for antitacklerdefense or additional dmg with cruise (higher dps than mael then) Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Shayla Sh'inlux Millennium	Posted - 2006.07.28 08:27:00 - [192] That is with BS lvl 5 which is a pretty big assumption in the first place. I realize that a lot of people have that, but a lot MORE people have it at lvl 4. At lvl 4 the alphastrike of the Maelstrom is 11% higher than that of the Tempest. I think that's quite a bit for a ship that isn't supposed to obsolete the Tempest. Then if you play with fittings a bit you can find out that the Maelstrom has room for a third Gyro whereas a fleet fitted tempest generally has only two and the Tempest' cards get worse and worse.
Melkor Bloodaxe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 08:28:00 - [193] Edited by: Melkor Bloodaxe on 28/07/2006 08:30:45 Tux, We, Matari fanatics from TEAM Minmatar, are working on a serious proposal for a good and balanced Maelstrom. We however have one question: Do you and your fellow devs have a specific role in mind for the Mael? This way we can design it for such a purpose, so that we do not come up with an AC-platform while you had an Arty-boat in mind, or vice versa... whaa it keeps eating my post... ____ "Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?" -HippoKing- TEAM MINMATAR - In Rust We Trust -
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 08:37:00 - [194] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux That is with BS lvl 5 which is a pretty big assumption in the first place. I realize that a lot of people have that, but a lot MORE people have it at lvl 4. At lvl 4 the alphastrike of the Maelstrom is 11% higher than that of the Tempest. I think that's quite a bit for a ship that isn't supposed to obsolete the Tempest. Then if you play with fittings a bit you can find out that the Maelstrom has room for a third Gyro whereas a fleet fitted tempest generally has only two and the Tempest' cards get worse and worse. i give you that BS 4 argument for newer players, but balancing is still done around max skills, also i had 3 gyros on my fleetfitted tempest in 90% of the cases if not more, cant comment tough if 2 or 3 is more common in general (besides we dont know the final fitting stats for mael yet so its hard to say if it would have room for 3 gyros) Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.07.28 09:39:00 - [195] 6 med sltos for shield tanking is bad, but 3 max targets?? come on, my inty can handle more then that! - It is much more efficient to talk to yourself in person than via the chat system. Now imagine the unimaginable
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 10:31:00 - [196] fleettempest has 3 guyros From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Ishana Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 11:43:00 - [197] Even so the point is that a mael could fit an additional gyro over the tempest. (so if you're using 3 on a Tempest now, you could probably use 4 on the mael) _________________________________________________________
Angeldust G.O.T.H.I.C Omega Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.28 12:28:00 - [198] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: HippoKing Am I the only one who finds it odd that they are talking about reducing range, in the same patch they introduce the longest range ship yet? If we're going for direct range nerf like frigates 1, cruisers 1.5 and battleship 2, then Rokh wouldn't really be the longest ranged ship would it , Then again we might not do it anyway and it needs massive massive amount of testing. Tbh, I do not think the Rokh is the problem with range, nor are the BS ranges, but long-range T2 ammo is. T2 ammo needs a redesign in general, and range is one of the major parts of this.
Corey Grim FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:36:00 - [199] Edited by: Corey Grim on 26/09/2006 23:38:59 Edited by: Corey Grim on 26/09/2006 23:37:23 Maelstorm is gonna be the most "crappy" of new tier 3 BS¦s by the looks of it, other way around it might be the most versatile also for you might fit it easily with long or short range. at least i hope that they do not add any "module bonuses" to it coz that would restirict its use (and when have minmatar¦s bigger ships have been restiricted ? ) Theres a couple of layouts + bonuses how it can compete the other tier 3 ships. 1. 8/6/6 5% tracking bonus per bs lvl 5% Rate of fire per bs lvl about same amount of shields and armor so it can shield tank or armor tank and are not restiricted to other. about 20 - 40 m/s more speed and about as light/versatile as typhoon. compared to other tier 3¦s a little weaker total hp. little higher sensor resolution than other tier 3¦s i think that setup would be usable in fleet fights as well in close range, it performs good in long range coz of tracking bonus + quite huge alpha strike. it performs good in close range coz of its quite nimble and and can fit some ew and still armor tank effectively, it needs those "ew slots" coz encountering any nos based ships would screw things up without those. number 2 would be the one that CCP implements i doubt it will be crap but i doubt it will be anything compared other tier 3¦s too. mods: sorry for late posting in this thread but seems this is the one tux reads/readed and didnt want to start new one just coz of this.
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:58:00 - [200] Thread... necromancy... head... hurts..... Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Corey Grim FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.27 00:05:00 - [201] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Thread... necromancy... head... hurts..... nice you have something usefull to say. i dont think i would call 2 months thread necromancy, especially now that kali 1 MIGHT hit the test server in couple of weeks.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.09.27 01:27:00 - [202] a bit necro even imo but anyway.... the ships where quite intensively discussed with graphs, speculation and much more... problem of mael will be that close range it will have not enought mids to fit a decent tank 1 cap recharger, 1 scram, 1 webber and you have just 3 mid to shield tank (and a slow ship) in gang it can work but so a tempest and probably will be even a bit more efficent (and cheap) mael will have a better tank but it will be less fast/agile and quite vulnerable to nos. consider in fact that a tempest do almost the same damage than a mael with 6 guns so 2 high slots are free for noses or even cruise for more dps, a mael will be forced to use all its 8 guns to be on par with a tempest damagewise. we also don't know what is the drone capacity if more, equal or less than a tempest. also for close range personally i prefer the phoon even if low pg and split weapon systems (bad bad bad) penalize a bit the ship. also the new gallente ship will be especially designed to fight in close range so i will expect it to OMGWTFBBQ the mael (expecially considering that it will be probably quite slow compared to gall ship) rokh will also have the same versatility of the mael if not more, with the ability to go even with a (probably strong) passive tank and good dps (better than a blasterthon) for long range imo there is not much to say, if stats will be similar to the ones we suppose the rokh will simply outperform every other fleet ship, not to say if in future weapon range will be nerfed. the new amarr BS imo can be another veeeeery good ship, expecially as damage suppor in mid and long range combat... but it can also turn out to be quite crappy... we will see. so imo with the stats we suppose the mael will be a poor ship compared to the other 3, expecially caldari and maybe amarr. and generally a ship too similar to the tempest that don't give clear benefits over the old minnie BS. just my opinion of course and on stats not finalized and in part supposed.... we will see in some week
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.09.27 01:48:00 - [203] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Tyler Lowe I'm just pointing out that ship stats are not the only thing that may change. The relative importance of low vs mid slot may have changed, espescially with regard to specific ships and their roles. To say that a mod will just as easily fit on a ship with one less low isn't entirely true. In a nutshell: It's pointless getting upset before you see the whole thing. This is actually an excellent point. Some other channges will come in when the battleships come in. For exemple I've mentioned somewhere that we are looking at ECM, we're also looking into a range reduction, whether that will be by direct or indirect means is not for sure yet, but I hope we will stop seeing every ship with a +200km range. Also there is the new system scanning. So you see there are a lot of interlinking features which you can't really connect properly together without "hands on" experience. Hopefully we will get SISI soon to play around with these new tweaks and features. But, But, I have train caldari rails since I was born. Range is the only thing we have going for us.
Blitzkrieg The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.27 03:07:00 - [204] So basically, in order to please the mass flying raven mission boats and bring a gun plateform to the caldaris, the devs had to create the tiers 3 bs. Right, makes sense on a marketing stand point. They could have tried a little harder to make the other 3 race tiers 3 bs a little less useless, as it is obvious the Minmatar and Amarr bring almost nothing to the plate
Roxanna Kell Holy Jihad	Posted - 2006.09.27 03:15:00 - [205] EVE is Wk , how the hek can a cerberus have more cargo space than the minmatar tier 3 Battleship. Stats are so unbalanced. if is this got something to do with cap chargers. jsut give the gadamn cap chargers bigger volume and give battleships the cargo they treuly deserve. - Quote:** "Don't touch the red button!"

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