The coffin dust on this topic killed John Carter

I thought the film killed John Carter.

CCP declared this to be an exploit months ago.

Instead of creating a thread where lots of goons come and say how terrible and cruel CCP are ...

The hilarious bit is the ******** GM replies about "you cannot bridge without putting part of your titan outside the shields this is behaviour by design hurf blurf". Thus showing how many of them have ever opened a bridge.

Instead of creating a thread where lots of goons come and say how terrible and cruel CCP are, demanding that they answer your questions when you know full well they never will and about unfair life is, why not just use the tactic yourself but really really really use it.

After all CCP have made it quite clear now that this is not an exploit so get over it, get there and use and abuse it.

Regarding your tinfoil: I only see two goons so far, in support of the OP (and one against him) and we have not been called here. There just happen to be many of us interested in this game.

Except they've specifically said that it is an exploit.

Where?

Like I said before, this has happened 3 times now (to my knowledge) and a petition was raised on each occasion, each one being rejected.

If CCP have stated that this is indeed a exploit in a Dev Blog then I totally agree it is bollocks of the highest order and people who have lost their Titan should be reimburse and those involved should be banned.

None of the titans killed with this method have been reimbursed so it can't have been declared as exploit.

Here, hit CCP with this & get your silly spacewangs reimbursed,

Here, hit CCP with this & get your silly spacewangs reimbursed,

However my point still stands that the only way CCP will ever do anything is if the mechanic is abused on a large scale

GM Roulette strikes again. What are the odds?

Guys we all know there are many things CCP should and shouldn't do however CCP have a long history of not acting until somebody abuses a mechanic on a large scale.

We also know that when it comes to things like this all posting usually results in is a lot of threads being locked.

As I said, I completely agree its bullshit, hwever if you guys were to go a Titan killing spree then its a win win scenario.

If CCP do not relent then lots of dead enemy titans = Win

If CCP do relent you get your Titans reimburse and force CCP to acknowledge their own rules = Win

and then when they ban you for using a known exploit multiple times?

Yet apparently it is not an exploit otherwise the first Titan would of been reimburse, those using the exploit would of been banned and the 2 other Titans would not of died.

Even worse: This "creative use of game mechanics" (read: exploit) only hurts the small entities.

Exploit =/= Reimbursement

Its an exploit to bowl for the titan of you dont have the pos pw, But if its bridging with impunity logic dictates it should become a valid target.

I atleast hope ccp sees it that way.

an exploit does get you a ban though

That's the most nonsensical GÇ£think of the childrenGÇ¥ I've ever heard.
Exploits hurt everyone. If you think otherwise, you haven't actually made any thinking at all.

Oh, and exploits do not automatically lead to reimbursements (or bans), so that's not really any evidence in either direction.

This kind of exploit doesn't hurt everyone because who is going to drop 15 titans to bump out a NC. or CFC or PL titan?

If there are no bans or reimbursements from using an exploit then CCP must

It hurts everyone because it is an exploit.
It hurts everyone because exploits work the same for everyone.

It's really that simple.

GǪnothing. Exploits and any investigations thereof are entirely between CCP and the (supposed) exploiters.

I have some trouble understanding this so would you clarify.

Are you saying that using exploits is fine

Of course it's CCP's job to inform the playerbase if the players are doing something that is not allowed

Nromally I would agree that bumping a Titan that is within the shields in this manner should be an exploit. However if they are using the Titan Bridge it seems reasonable that there should be some risk in doing so.

Nromally I would agree that bumping a Titan that is within the shields in this manner should be an exploit. However if they are using the Titan Bridge it seems reasonable that there should be some risk in doing so.

Why should we care what seems reasonable to you?

Its an exploit to bowl for the titan of you dont have the pos pw, But if its bridging with impunity logic dictates it should become a valid target.

I atleast hope ccp sees it that way.

That's the most nonsensical GÇ£think of the childrenGÇ¥ I've ever heard.
Exploits hurt everyone. If you think otherwise, you haven't actually made any thinking at all.

Oh, and exploits do not automatically lead to reimbursements (or bans), so that's not really any evidence in either direction.

If that's the most nonsensical you've heard, you are blessed. I've had to put up with worse **** in real life.
Also thanks for the ad hominem, just because I have a different opinion.

What I meant to say though is that this exploit hurts small entities in particular. Our Titans are in no danger of being bumped by small entities, but the other way around very much. Also we have APEX FORCE (TM TMC) to provide at least a threat against bigger entities.

That's the most nonsensical GÇ£think of the childrenGÇ¥ I've ever heard.
Exploits hurt everyone. If you think otherwise, you haven't actually made any thinking at all.

Oh, and exploits do not automatically lead to reimbursements (or bans), so that's not really any evidence in either direction.

Videos explain this better than words so take a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7P8TS-s59U Pandemic Legion testing this way back in early 2013.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbDa446BUzs Pandemic Legion attempting this on a Solar titan also in early 2013 but Titan is able to jump out. This was the first and probably the only time PL tried to do this on TQ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5EcXko2vs NC. killing a Southern Federation Titan. In this one the titan gets bumped so hard that it bumps again from the POS structure to go outside of the shields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oaO0Wl0xGk Second angle from the same kill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqcID5PBLBk CFC testing this on Sisi. As you can see in the first bump the target titan is as deep inside the shields it can be to be able to still bridge out people who are outside the shields and that does not help him at all.

Two titans have been confirmed to being killed like this (the one above and Mister Vee's) and it's pretty much safe to assume a third one was done in by it as well but there's no solid proof of that.

The method is quite simple:

0) Wait until the target titan opens a bridge so he can't jump out.
1) Warp your cyno close to the shields near the target titan. The cyno will appear 5km away from the shields.
2) Jump in your own 15+ titans and hope one of them appears close enough to the target titan or is bumped towards the shields.
3) Target titan inside the shields gets hit by one or more of the titans that got lucky and gets bumped 3-4 km/s and will exit the shield within 10-15 seconds (fast enough so that if his bridge is up he can't jump out).
4) Titan is now outside the shields and you volley it with doomsdays.


CCP clearly isn't punishing people for doing this so are we all assuming this isn't an exploit then? This tactic has now been used numerous times on TQ with at least 3 successful titan kills and there has been no comment about it from CCP. This is not something that's new either, it has been public knowledge for about 2 years now. The only reason people were not using it from day one is because they realized that something like this shouldn't be allowed and were afraid of getting banned. This has now changed by CCP's inability to take action.


A titan that is 2500m from the shield edge inside a POS is not safe either. Cyno appears 5000m away from the shields and ships that jump to it appear in a sphere 2500m away from the cyno. This means the closest ship to the outside of the shields will be 2500m from the edge even if they don't get bumped on jump in.

The biggest Titans are 18 and 17.8km long. If a Leviathan gets a lucky jump in and appears 2500m from the shields it will penetrate 9000-2500 = 6500 meters inside the shields. That means if your titan inside a POS is less than 6500m away from the shield edge it is still theoretically possible to bump it. Of course it's starts to be more and more unlikely the more in to the shields you get which is why all these titans that have been killed have been at the "bridging position" or less than 2500m from the shield edge.

And by the way penetrating in to the shields has already been ruled as an exploit when people did it with 100mn MWDs in cruisers and going so fast that the were able to bump things inside shields before server realized what was going on and ejected them.

Worth noting is that CCP also reimbursed a titan that was bumped out from a small POS where it is physically impossible for a titan collision sphere to be fully inside the shields.


Note that moving the cyno spot 10km instead of 5km away from the shields would most likely not even solve this problem. In the first CFC test clip the Avatar that goes flying directly in to the shields would have bumped the target titan even if the cyno had been 10km away from the shields.

In simple terms this also means that it is impossible to safely use titan bridges now. Either you are too close to the shield edge that you risk getting bumped out or you are safe from the bumps but have to give out the POS password to your fleet.


Since CCP is so reluctant to answer if this is allowed or not I think it's safe to assume that if this thread gets locked or deleted they agree it's an exploit (because you are not allowed to post exploits on this forum). But if it stays open even without a CCP answer it's a legit tactic and we can all go bowling some titans together.

Edit: oh and just to add. This has been petitioned dozens if not over a hundred times over the 2 years it has been public knowledge. Petitions are not helping anymore, CCP needs to come out and say if this is allowed or not.

When we lose a titan to this it's no big deal because we have a few hundred that can take its place the next time.

Yes technically this mechanic can effect anybody with a Titan within a PoS.

Realistically the only groups it really effects are CFC, NC, PL and any other large group that has a number of Titans at their disposal.

I could have saved you a wall of text. The titans arent fully inside the shields. They are sticking out just enough to be able to be bumped.

If that's the most nonsensical you've heard, you are blessed. I've had to put up with worse **** in real life.
Also thanks for the ad hominem, just because I have a different opinion.

What I meant to say though is that this exploit hurts small entities in particular. Our Titans are in no danger of being bumped by small entities, but the other way around very much. Also we have APEX FORCE (TM TMC) to provide at least a threat against bigger entities.

I could have saved you a wall of text. The titans arent fully inside the shields. They are sticking out just enough to be able to be bumped.

On the side of getting titan killmails, or getting titan lossmails?

Apparently you do sufficiently enough to quote and comment.

**QQ'ing**

I thought the film killed John Carter.

I thought the film killed John Carter.

Instead of creating a thread where lots of goons come and say how terrible and cruel CCP are, demanding that they answer your questions when you know full well they never will and about unfair life is, why not just use the tactic yourself but really really really use it.

After all CCP have made it quite clear now that this is not an exploit so get over it, get there and use and abuse it.

I am pretty sure after a few more (lots and lots) of titans go pop when they are with theirs PoS they will listen.

Of course the other option is that they also believe the mantra "Death to All Supers" so they couldn't care less , either way the best Titan is a dead Titan


DEATH TO ALL SUPERS

I thought 100 years of derivative science fiction killed John Carter.

I rarely put on a movie and not watch it till the end no matter how bad it is , but john carter is an exception to the rule .

I think there is something wrong with me because I liked it

I don't think it's absolutely necessary for CCP to come out with a definite statement, although it would be the most prudent thing to do.

However, what would be the worst possible course, is if CCP does nothing now, but then, later, after 20 dead titans (destroyed using the same "method"), CCP decides to ban players using the method on the 20th kill. That just shows CCP decided to avoid the problem--or deal with it just enough--until it was glaring them in the face, which is not a great way to deal with game issues.

I don't think it's absolutely necessary for CCP to come out with a definite statement, although it would be the most prudent thing to do.

However, what would be the worst possible course, is if CCP does nothing now, but then, later, after 20 dead titans (destroyed using the same "method"), CCP decides to ban players using the method on the 20th kill. That just shows CCP decided to avoid the problem--or deal with it just enough--until it was glaring them in the face, which is not a great way to deal with game issues.

I think there is something wrong with me because I liked it

What's the gameplay reason on allowing a titan to be invulnerable inside a POS forcefield while bridging a fleet? Wouldn't it make sense to force that titan to leave the shields itself?

Until CCP addresses a glaring problem, Titan owners need to have a couple of GTFO cyno's fired up at all times they are active.

The way things have happened with this, including forum activity, gives me the impression that CCP is simply apathetic to the whole situation, and wants it swept under the rug.

If you have been forced to ever watch the second ghost rider then yes, it wasn't bad.

But it'll take longer to burn back into POS on the one time per year I actually use my epeen for anything other than a ship catapult.

I'm also disappointed that the theme of the thread seems to be more 'pay me back for my loss' and less 'fix the problem.' Super pilots seem to think rule #1 of EvE no longer applies to them. Remember the rule of 'don't fly what you can't afford to lose?' Just because your ship costs 100bil isk doesn't mean you get to ignore this rule.

I think there is something wrong with me because I liked it

Look, if anything I should be arguing for the other side here however those people who have lost Titans in this manner are first and foremost asking CCP for clarification and reimbursement a distance second.

Also the whole if you cant afford you shouldn't fly it, that is fair enough, however when you lose a ship due to a exploit, why shouldn't that person demand there ship back, whether it be a frigate or Titan, its more the principle then the actual losing of the ship.

Because my opinion is that reimbursement should never be done, whether it be a frigate or a Titan. You undock, you take your chances, period. The fact that supers can't dock does not change this.

As to the clarification, the only thing that needs to be said by CCP is the remedy to the issue and some temp bans to those using the exploit.

me too, I thought it was a good popcorn flick, and I actually bought it

Since CCP is so reluctant to answer if this is allowed or not I think it's safe to assume that if this thread gets locked or deleted they agree it's an exploit (because you are not allowed to post exploits on this forum). But if it stays open even without a CCP answer it's a legit tactic and we can all go bowling some titans together.