I still wonder if Greyscale got forced to make this JF change by someone higher up in CCP. It really doesnt fit with the rest of his vision at all and does substantially reduce the impact of the changes taken as a whole. In some of his replies he sounds pretty remorseful at having to compromise on this.

Jump freighter max range will be bumped up to 10LY, and they will keep the 90% fatigue-distance reduction. This represents a slight range reduction compared to TQ, so some cynos will need to be repositioned, but otherwise leaves them largely alone. Note that, because ranges multiply together for fatigue purposes, one 10LY jump is *substantially* less fatiguing (multiply by 11) than two 5LY jumps (multiply by 36).

If it's a Deep Space Transport (and you have Transport Ships 5, I think,) you can fit a packaged battleship inside its fleet hangar with about 10k to spare for modules and ammo.

Nevermind that they align and warp like pigs.

Actually, I do. :sun:

Okay, so it turns out the math is pretty easy if you have the power of GTS.



So to standardize the route (and keep it firmly in grr goons territory) we are going to use YA0 to F2O as our route. It covers a pretty good portion of the map.

CONTESTANT ONE: THE CRUSADER

Here's the route a crusader takes. Note that it might be a slightly larger number of gates due to GTS's feature for optimizing for warp distance at the cost of using more gates.

http://i.imgur.com/ahBf9Iq.png

Down at the bottom we see it's 49 jumps, taking 30 minutes. Note that GTS does not allow you to use implants or rigs to increase your warp speed, so this is a bog-standard, unfit interceptor.

CONTESTANT TWO: THE TRAVEL FIT WREATHE

Now, using our jump bridge network, a wreathe spends 16 minutes warping, but it has to take NINE jump bridges. Since you can't "blitz" this (the maximum number of jumps you can perform is six before your fatigue starts making your cooldown longer than five minutes,) this means that you spend a minimum of 45 minutes waiting for your fatigue to wear off. This means the wreathes take 1 hour to complete the same route.

I dunno about you, but I'll take half the time and immune to bubbles any day.

You can fit a T3 + fittings in pretty much any t1 industrial, including the fast ones. You'll be able to get your Ishtar into anything with equal or greater capacity than a badger. Just make sure you scout the gate.

Way to cave to the whining, now because you can have 9-10 jump clones around places and since you've made it even EASIER to move bulk freight around your collected power projection changes amount to ****, existing alliances will now be completely entrenched until you change the rest of sov, so instead of fixing the stagnation of 0.0, you're making it worse.

How can you screw this up so bad when you had it, you were so close, then Baaaw its not fair that EVERYBODY has to take gates so you trash all the progress you'd made and basically pitch underhanded.

"Let Down" doesn't begin to describe my reaction to reading this bullshit.

EDIT: And if you're so incredibly worried about Stain, how about just adding a gate to the game that connects stain to either NPC Delve or lowsec Aridia, (Venal needs this same gate) and then all your NPC sec would be easier access and you wouldn't need to soft hand these changes that the game needs.

The only thing he underestimated were the amount of null bear tears. That is the only reason the changes aren't being implemented right now.

Last time I checked you couldnt fit a packed megathron in the cargo bay of your interceptor.

Should be fun watching the killmails of all the T1 indy's with T3's in the hold :)

The fatigue is still pretty meaningful. A six jump blitz takes 15 minutes to execute, and leaves you with 77 minutes of fatigue to manage afterwards.

E: This also doesn't cover the travel time between jump bridges.

You can't fit one in a Wreathe either -- you need a DST to do that. Which, I hasten to add, aligns a lot slower, and has one less rig for boosting warp speed.

Despite your 'worst case scenario, a ceptor will still be slower than a hauler for things like, going say from 6VDT to Hophib, and that will be a fairly constant.

From the bowels of Dek to empire and back every day with no penalty at all, every day, in T1 haulers, still faster than ceptors

This example doesn't work either -- it takes 2 JBs to get to hophib with our current network and 5m of flight time (15m) and 9m38s by interceptor.

:shobon:

e: WHOOPS had GTS set to wreathe for the no-jb part, actual time drops from 13m to 9m38s

2 jbs, 1.5 minutes for the first, then take the second, i'm not sure where you get your numbers

EDIT: I suddenly think one of the two of us doesn't understand what that cooldown reduction does to T1 haulers and i think its you.

if you had to do 2 jbs, you would jump, wait 1.5 minutes, and jump again.

Not 5 minutes.

Your assumption is that you would always jump as soon as your cooldown is off,

Leaving the heart of any region should take 5 minutes and 2 gates - GSF Logistics team on proper force projection controls.

http://i.imgur.com/iJj6K92.png

Nothing wrong with this picture at all

Happy to discuss it, yes :)

9 LY lets jump freighters cover most of the regional gaps. Don't go all the way to 10.