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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 38 post(s) |
Xorth Adimus
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
51
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 17:59:00 -
[871] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:David Magnus wrote:These do address some of the bigger concerns, thanks for taking the time to post about these! Have there been changes to death-clone camping, or did I miss that in a different thread? Death clone camping is handled by the new medical clone changes that are being implemented right now. The short version is that you'll always be able to intentionally revoke your clone contract somewhere and have it reset to your rookie system. wait what, where is this On Nullarbor's computer, currently. Also, to everyone who was wondering whether or not I listened, I read 4000 freaking posts by myself. Whether or not I agreed with the concerns was an open question, but I hope it was obvious from my posting that I was paying attention!
The proposed updates are very good and it is obvious you have listened.
Should be interesting to see how this all works on a large scale and how you guys implement it / check it.
Thanks for all the hard work reading all those posts and replying!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8530
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 17:59:00 -
[872] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:Lallante wrote:The idea that JFs are a friend to nullsec industry is a curious one - surely the ease of transport of materials from Jita in JFs is the single biggest reason there ISNT any nullsec industry? That statement kind of highlights the fact that your calling for harsh penalties to an area of EvE gameplay to which you know NOTHING about. You want to know why there isn't any nullsec industry? Because CCP spent the last 10 years DELIBERATELY making it this way. No region, or even group of nearby regions in game have all the resources for self sufficiency because CCP wanted you to go kick down the door of some region miles away to gain access to a resource your home regions lacked. That little idea in the name of providing PvP incentive is one of the reasons industry/logistics is the way it is. \
That's right, the problem with that is the same reason the 'anomalie nerf' didn't work and just create null space only worth renting.
CCP nerfed anomalies to 'give people a reason to fight' but what really happened is that lots of us just moved alts to other places to make pve isk (like high sec incursions).
Likewise, having no one region be able to achieve self sufficiency was the same kind of thinking. But rather than war happening, this just caused people to get rich supplying jita markets with stuff. 1st it was the Drone Region guys gun mining, now it's just people mining low ends in high sec.
The principle in both cases is this: NO ONE fights over things they can just buy or rent. fight comes with a chance of losing, spending cash generally doesn't. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
108
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:00:00 -
[873] - Quote
Perseus Kallistratos wrote:Alp Khan wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
It's almost as if you can't accept people from a player group are allowed to think for themselves, that makes me sad friend. Why would you fall for such a flawed view on life?
You should ask that question to yourself, because the group of players that bring up false-pretense ~concerns~ with how the logistics and industry jump changes were readjusted so that null logistics can still work are almost exclusively Pandemic Legion players, a group known for having miniscule numbers and having traditionally relied on being able to project capital and supercapital ships throughout all of New Eden. It's awfully looking like here that you bunch are all aware that PL's claim to being relevant in null is getting burned to ground here through the combat capital jump nerf, which is almost unanimously seen as a necessary change. In response, it looks like your group is trying to salvage at least some amount of it's relevance by making sure that they would at least be geographically isolated from other null entities, which rely on numbers, organization and logistics instead of combat supercapital and capital projection, therefore making sure that your group can able to brace the storm despite all of your disadvantages. Almost exclusively, your group of players claimed under this thread that somehow industrials would be used as shuttles, which is a hilariously silly idea that cannot work, as industrials are filmsy and unsurvivable, suspect to getting caught by bubbles, and better alternatives in the forum of travel interceptors without any vulnerabilies that can travel faster without bothering with any mechanics do exist. Furthermore, in contrast with the self-serving agenda PL is trying to push here, responses to Greyscale's original set of proposed changes which rightly highlighted how those would kill null logistics in it's tracks, and damage EVE economy as a whole, were bipartisan and overwhelming in numbers. Now, unless your group of players can't find a better and valid argument to be able to coerce the developers into making further changes to guarantee that PL can be isolated and able to make a difference with sub capitals, I suggest you stop reflecting your inability think for yourself and penchant for group think upon us, as by continuing to do so, you'll only be hindering your already diminishing credibility further. Actually the power projection is more of a recent thing. You should probably run with "PL are one of the best entities at rapid adaptation to new mechanics, mainly due to their constant need to farm tears from brain dead pubbies". Thanks for not disappointing.
So then why all the moaning about industrials being used as taxis? PL will adapt better than anyone logged in, right? |
Dibble Dabble
Capital Assets Inc
68
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:04:00 -
[874] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Dibble Dabble wrote:I see that goons have a moan and CCP bends over and takes it up the bum.
I suppose it was to be expected we know who runs Eve and we wonder how many CCP Devs / Mods are in goons.
Its a shame CCP lack a pair of round spherical objects, not one single pair between the lot of them.
You bottled it CCP.
I'm not a goon and i moaned but I also have a lot of invested interests in this matter.
A lot of people moaned about the nerf to high sec industry but CCP ignored them but I suspect most were high sec carebears so CCP don't give a crap about them that's for sure.
I guess getting moon goo, minerals and the high end stuff from null to empire would have been more difficult with the netf. It would have hurt the renters and RMT players and we know what these mean to goons and other null sec alliances.
The ISK must flow. CCP bends over.
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Panther X
High Flyers The Kadeshi
20
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:06:00 -
[875] - Quote
Odelll wrote: Fix for jump drives + changed the name of jump drive to random improbability drive + random improbability drives or RID now jump you randomly to a location within max jump distance + this effects all jump mechanics including bridges
Fix for jita + added a tax scalable by your current standing on all market trading, 1 standing per 10% tax. -10 is 100% tax, 10 is 0% tax. - example of this, having 5 standings with Caldari will see a 50% tax on transactions in places like jita. - example 2 of this would be having -5 to a player alliance. Purchasing from their market would result in a 50% tax.
Fix for blops - Removed black ops portals, replaced with the ability to warp cloaked.
CCP can pay me my money now for "fixing" the game, tyvm.
Sorry you're fired.
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Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:08:00 -
[876] - Quote
So, here is my problem with this whole expansion.
Here is how I feel about different activities in Eve now...
- PvP = Fun, yay, what a rush.
- Logistics = Boring, but a necessary evil.
- PvE & Industry = Unbearably boring.
- Moving to a new deployment area = Boring, but at least we can get it over with quickly
Here comes Phoebe...
- PvP = It is very likely that the amount of PvP fights I personally am in will be less. The one thing in Eve I enjoy.
- Logistics = Still boring, but now takes longer and is more hassle due to no pod express, fatigue and 10 ly JF range.
- PvE & Industry = Still unbearably boring.
- Moving to a new deployment area = Still boring, now takes much longer.
Basically Greyscale, you are decreasing my "fun per hour" by making the boring parts of the game take longer and decreasing the frequency of what I consider to be the one and only fun part of the game. In fact the only reason I play the game in the fist place. |
Perseus Kallistratos
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
13
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:08:00 -
[877] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Perseus Kallistratos wrote:Alp Khan wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
It's almost as if you can't accept people from a player group are allowed to think for themselves, that makes me sad friend. Why would you fall for such a flawed view on life?
You should ask that question to yourself, because the group of players that bring up false-pretense ~concerns~ with how the logistics and industry jump changes were readjusted so that null logistics can still work are almost exclusively Pandemic Legion players, a group known for having miniscule numbers and having traditionally relied on being able to project capital and supercapital ships throughout all of New Eden. It's awfully looking like here that you bunch are all aware that PL's claim to being relevant in null is getting burned to ground here through the combat capital jump nerf, which is almost unanimously seen as a necessary change. In response, it looks like your group is trying to salvage at least some amount of it's relevance by making sure that they would at least be geographically isolated from other null entities, which rely on numbers, organization and logistics instead of combat supercapital and capital projection, therefore making sure that your group can able to brace the storm despite all of your disadvantages. Almost exclusively, your group of players claimed under this thread that somehow industrials would be used as shuttles, which is a hilariously silly idea that cannot work, as industrials are filmsy and unsurvivable, suspect to getting caught by bubbles, and better alternatives in the forum of travel interceptors without any vulnerabilies that can travel faster without bothering with any mechanics do exist. Furthermore, in contrast with the self-serving agenda PL is trying to push here, responses to Greyscale's original set of proposed changes which rightly highlighted how those would kill null logistics in it's tracks, and damage EVE economy as a whole, were bipartisan and overwhelming in numbers. Now, unless your group of players can't find a better and valid argument to be able to coerce the developers into making further changes to guarantee that PL can be isolated and able to make a difference with sub capitals, I suggest you stop reflecting your inability think for yourself and penchant for group think upon us, as by continuing to do so, you'll only be hindering your already diminishing credibility further. Actually the power projection is more of a recent thing. You should probably run with "PL are one of the best entities at rapid adaptation to new mechanics, mainly due to their constant need to farm tears from brain dead pubbies". Thanks for not disappointing. So then why all the moaning about industrials being used as taxis? PL will adapt better than anyone logged in, right?
This is true. So when CCP leaves such an obvious mechanic open to abuse, we have to protest. Only high-level sphere-level exploits should be allowed to sneak through.
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
108
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:12:00 -
[878] - Quote
Perseus Kallistratos wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Perseus Kallistratos wrote:Alp Khan wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
It's almost as if you can't accept people from a player group are allowed to think for themselves, that makes me sad friend. Why would you fall for such a flawed view on life?
You should ask that question to yourself, because the group of players that bring up false-pretense ~concerns~ with how the logistics and industry jump changes were readjusted so that null logistics can still work are almost exclusively Pandemic Legion players, a group known for having miniscule numbers and having traditionally relied on being able to project capital and supercapital ships throughout all of New Eden. It's awfully looking like here that you bunch are all aware that PL's claim to being relevant in null is getting burned to ground here through the combat capital jump nerf, which is almost unanimously seen as a necessary change. In response, it looks like your group is trying to salvage at least some amount of it's relevance by making sure that they would at least be geographically isolated from other null entities, which rely on numbers, organization and logistics instead of combat supercapital and capital projection, therefore making sure that your group can able to brace the storm despite all of your disadvantages. Almost exclusively, your group of players claimed under this thread that somehow industrials would be used as shuttles, which is a hilariously silly idea that cannot work, as industrials are filmsy and unsurvivable, suspect to getting caught by bubbles, and better alternatives in the forum of travel interceptors without any vulnerabilies that can travel faster without bothering with any mechanics do exist. Furthermore, in contrast with the self-serving agenda PL is trying to push here, responses to Greyscale's original set of proposed changes which rightly highlighted how those would kill null logistics in it's tracks, and damage EVE economy as a whole, were bipartisan and overwhelming in numbers. Now, unless your group of players can't find a better and valid argument to be able to coerce the developers into making further changes to guarantee that PL can be isolated and able to make a difference with sub capitals, I suggest you stop reflecting your inability think for yourself and penchant for group think upon us, as by continuing to do so, you'll only be hindering your already diminishing credibility further. Actually the power projection is more of a recent thing. You should probably run with "PL are one of the best entities at rapid adaptation to new mechanics, mainly due to their constant need to farm tears from brain dead pubbies". Thanks for not disappointing. So then why all the moaning about industrials being used as taxis? PL will adapt better than anyone logged in, right? This is true. So when CCP leaves such an obvious mechanic open to abuse, we have to protest. Only high-level sphere-level exploits should be allowed to sneak through.
Silva told us you guys are scurred. lol |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
156
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:13:00 -
[879] - Quote
Perseus Kallistratos wrote: This is true. So when CCP leaves such an obvious mechanic open to abuse, we have to protest. Only high-level sphere-level exploits should be allowed to sneak through.
So you're saying that if people were to use industrials to "quickly" move between regions, then you (the attacker) wouldn't be able to adapt and set up one bubble and completely annihilate the industrial train?
How are industrials with up to a 5 minute timer between jump bridges faster than any interceptor? |
snorkle25
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:18:00 -
[880] - Quote
A few suggestions I have:
1. Add a jump route planner function to the star map.
2. Change the Fatigue generation from 1+(LY traveled) to just (LY traveled). Increase fatigue degradation to .25/min. Add Jump Fatigue Compensation skill that increases fatigue reduction by .01/min per level so maxed out skill equates to -.3/min fatigue.
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Tal Redfield
Rowan's Crown Wormhole Kaleidoscope Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:18:00 -
[881] - Quote
Hopefully my maths is good so here goes on Black ops with 50% reduction in jump fatigue bonus.
First Drop; Fatique 0, Range 5ly Timer: (5 + 1) x 50%bonus = 3min New Fatique: 3
Return to origin; Fatique after 5min (3GÇô(5x0.1)) = 2.5, Range 5ly [Fatique < Minimum Timer] Timer: (5 + 1) x 50%bonus = 3min New Fatique: 3 x 2.5 = 7.5
Second Drop; Fatique after 30min (7.5-(30x0.1)) = 4.5, Range 7.5ly Timer: 4.5min New Fatique: 4.5 x ((7.5 + 1) * 50%bonus) = 19.125
Return to origin; Fatique after 5min (19.125GÇô(5x0.1)) = 18.625, Range 7.5ly Timer: 18.625min New Fatique: 18.625 x ((7.5 + 1) * 50%bonus) = 79.16
Third Drop: Fatique after 30min (79.16-(30x0.1)) = 76.16, Range 7ly Timer: 79.16min New Fatique: 79.16 x ((7 + 1) * 50%bonus) = 304.63
Return to origin; Fatique after waiting 80min (304.63 GÇô (80 x 0.1)) = 296.63, Range 7ly Timer: 296.63min / 4.9hours New Fatique: 296.63 x ((7 + 1) * 50%bonus) = 1186.5
Summary: GÇóAfter the third drop you have to wait approx. 1hour20min to jump back home. GÇóAfter returning home from third drop you will wait approx. 5 hours before being able to jump again GÇóThe accumulated fatigue after 3 drops will take 8.2 days to decay!!!!! GÇóYou are limited to a max of three drops when starting with zero fatigue, even less if you start with some fatigue already active.
Limiting Black Ops to 2 possibly 3 drops is definitely harming them in my opinion. The same applies to titan bridging gangs on a local basis which provides hours of fun and does nothing for power projection.
Base the bonus for Black Ops around the ORIGIN system, like a GÇ£Going homeGÇ¥ bonus, example; Johnny drops on a shiny ship 5ly away. He gets 3 fatigue. He jumps back to the home/origin system, the bonus kicks in and significantly reduces or negates fatigue for that jump.
Create a bonus for Titan bridging that originates in the same system so that local content does not get stifled which is what is about to happen. Your aims for these changes is to limit power projection, making local content harder to access does not have to be a side effect. Example: Johnny takes Titan Bridge to drop on shiny ship 5ly away. He gets 6 fatigue. He burns back to ORIGIN system and stacks back on the Titan. He bridges a second time from the same system into the same immediate vicinity, bonus kicks in and resets his fatigue back to 6 or whatever. However any other subsequent jump from any other system will incur normal fatigue penalties, which means your original idea for crippling long distance travel still applies for any movement away from the origin system.
So in closing please CCP come up with a bonus fatigue reduction system for Black Ops and Titan Bridges that take into account the ORIGIN/HOME system on subsequent jumps so as to not stifle local content.
Regards |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:22:00 -
[882] - Quote
theres a 10min base fatigue present for any distance jump atm |
Momma Yeti
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:31:00 -
[883] - Quote
CCP... I am still unclear how this is going to "help" break up these massive & dug-in super blocks in nullsec. Wont they just redeploy their assets & industries to compensate for this new mechanic before you deploy this new patch?
If the above is true, in the end the only people you are hurting is the whole of your subscription base in an attempt to lay a blow to the big supers?
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cecil b d'milf
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:35:00 -
[884] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Rather than nerfing everything into the ground up front, we'd rather catch the really obvious stuff first and then see how the game plays out.
Couldn't agree more. So why was the first devblog so focused on nerfing it all into the ground? Just to get a rise out of the community? Because now we have those who were happy with nerfing it into the ground being made to feel like you are "caving in", when in fact you are taking a logical, methodical approach. But before that we had to experience the threadnaught where those who saw it as unnecessarily aggressive were forced to point out a lot of very obvious issues. Glad you finally got to this point, but not sure it had to take this path
Considering how confused you are by CCP's initial direction with these changes, perhaps you ought to consider the more logical explanation that it was intentional and they did "cave in".
Occam's razor pal.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2472
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:35:00 -
[885] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:... I read 4000 freaking posts by myself. ... With that number you may apply for an entry level position in CCL. I other words: Hah! n00b.....
All kidding aside, thanks for the effort involved. Fantastic work! I personally like these adjustments and the JF's on my playing account thank you and the team involved as well... ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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afkboss
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
43
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:35:00 -
[886] - Quote
While your tweaking so much can you please give the revelation a damage boost just to bring it closer to moros. I find it hard to believe you would ignore a ship that is the same colour as your beard |
cecil b d'milf
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:38:00 -
[887] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: - Battle rorqual -- Lots of cross-training for questionable value and the certainty that we'll nerf it anyway -- Reduced/removed drone bonus
just out of curiosity let us suppose the battle rorqual fleet was deployed how long do you think we'd have to play around with it before it got nerfed :sun: Depends how funny we found it, I think. I think we just found the new end boss on the forums
New end boss that tries to create new end game content and bottles it ?
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Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:48:00 -
[888] - Quote
I know, lets get rid of all capitals and ships with jump drives, all T2/T3 ships and T2 modules/rigs and go back to T1 subcaps online. There was nothing wrong with the game then was there? |
cecil b d'milf
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:48:00 -
[889] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: - Setting up caches of ships and jump cloning to them -- Difficulty and cost of setting up and maintaining caches of sufficient size and density -- Limit jump clone usage furtehr - Ascendancy capitals -- Risks involved, rarity of key items -- Reduce bonuses hyperspatial whatsamajigs give to supers - Battle rorqual -- Lots of cross-training for questionable value and the certainty that we'll nerf it anyway -- Reduced/removed drone bonus - T1 hauler redeployment -- Risk of moving your whole fleet in T1 haulers, bridging or no -- Nerf hauler fatigue bonus - Using JFs to move your fleet -- Requires everyone to train for and own a JF, requires you to fly round in an unescorted fleet of JFs -- We're going to nerf JFs evenutally, if we have to tackle this in the meantime we'll think of something - Blockade-runner/black ops fleet movement -- Need to have BO stationed everywhere to pull it off -- Nerf BR bonuses - Roaming fast-warp carrier gangs -- It's a gimmick, there's probably a good counter -- Delete carriers from game (kidding, unfortunately, but we'll think of something)
So basically what you're saying is, don't do anything that can give you an advantage or we will nerf it to the ground. Not much of a sandbox.
So people will not use the above tactics for fear that they may not be able to use the above tactics ? Or ... they will just use them until they can no longer use them ?
Which one of these makes more sense ?
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8533
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:52:00 -
[890] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:... I read 4000 freaking posts by myself. ... With that number you may apply for an entry level position in CCL. I other words: Hah! n00b..... .
You ain't be trolled till you been ISDtrolled!
In other news, ISD member confirmed to have sense of humor. Fired from ISD 13 seconds later by forum automation.
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Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:52:00 -
[891] - Quote
cecil b d'milf wrote:Drak Fel wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: - Setting up caches of ships and jump cloning to them -- Difficulty and cost of setting up and maintaining caches of sufficient size and density -- Limit jump clone usage furtehr - Ascendancy capitals -- Risks involved, rarity of key items -- Reduce bonuses hyperspatial whatsamajigs give to supers - Battle rorqual -- Lots of cross-training for questionable value and the certainty that we'll nerf it anyway -- Reduced/removed drone bonus - T1 hauler redeployment -- Risk of moving your whole fleet in T1 haulers, bridging or no -- Nerf hauler fatigue bonus - Using JFs to move your fleet -- Requires everyone to train for and own a JF, requires you to fly round in an unescorted fleet of JFs -- We're going to nerf JFs evenutally, if we have to tackle this in the meantime we'll think of something - Blockade-runner/black ops fleet movement -- Need to have BO stationed everywhere to pull it off -- Nerf BR bonuses - Roaming fast-warp carrier gangs -- It's a gimmick, there's probably a good counter -- Delete carriers from game (kidding, unfortunately, but we'll think of something)
So basically what you're saying is, don't do anything that can give you an advantage or we will nerf it to the ground. Not much of a sandbox. So people will not use the above tactics for fear that they may not be able to use the above tactics ? Or ... they will just use them until they can no longer use them ? Which one of these makes more sense ?
shh, don't give away our plans...
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8533
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 18:54:00 -
[892] - Quote
Momma Yeti wrote:CCP... I am still unclear how this is going to "help" break up these massive & dug-in super blocks in nullsec. Wont they just redeploy their assets & industries to compensate for this new mechanic before you deploy this new patch?
If the above is true, in the end the only people you are hurting is the whole of your subscription base in an attempt to lay a blow to the big supers?
We still don't know what else they are going to do to null. But yes, this is exactly what has happened in the past when things have been done with specific intentions in mind. In this thread and the one in the information portal that precedes it you can find links to past dev blogs show as much.
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Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
740
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 19:02:00 -
[893] - Quote
Battle Rorquals are not a serious proposition. The drone bonus isn't a danger.
Per zkillboard, here are the last 10ish things involving rorquals.
Rorquals killed by: bombers and other subcaps carrier and a bunch of blops dread, couple battelships, other subcaps pair of proteuses dread, carrier, blops, arazu, frigate dread, 2 blops, bomber phantasm, 2 proteus Deimos and a shuttle (??) Two carriers and a domi Cruiser fleet with other subcaps 2 battleships, ishtar, harb, munnin, unknown
Rorqual kills: Small auto cannon battery (28 dudes) Archon (45) NAPOC (33) Archon (42) NAPOC (23) CHA (Solo kill!) Jump Bridge (Nearly solo!) Capsule (Solo!) Raptor (Solo!) Sabre (Solo, done by same dude, HOW?!?) Velator SBU (Part of 653) SBU (Part of 560)
Other than the solo kill of the sabre by the rorqual, I have no idea how one of these would be used in even a roaming fleet. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1498
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 19:05:00 -
[894] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:... I read 4000 freaking posts by myself. ... With that number you may apply for an entry level position in CCL. I other words: Hah! n00b..... All kidding aside, thanks for the effort involved. Fantastic work! I personally like these adjustments and the JF's on my playing account thank you and the team involved as well... Zing! |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
108
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 19:29:00 -
[895] - Quote
snorkle25 wrote:A few suggestions I have:
1. Add a jump route planner function to the star map.
2. Change the Fatigue generation from 1+(LY traveled) to just (LY traveled). Increase fatigue degradation to .25/min. Add Jump Fatigue Compensation skill that increases fatigue reduction by .01/min per level so maxed out skill equates to -.3/min fatigue.
DNS would not appreciate your insubordinate softening of the nerf. You have been reported to high command |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
108
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 19:35:00 -
[896] - Quote
cecil b d'milf wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Rather than nerfing everything into the ground up front, we'd rather catch the really obvious stuff first and then see how the game plays out.
Couldn't agree more. So why was the first devblog so focused on nerfing it all into the ground? Just to get a rise out of the community? Because now we have those who were happy with nerfing it into the ground being made to feel like you are "caving in", when in fact you are taking a logical, methodical approach. But before that we had to experience the threadnaught where those who saw it as unnecessarily aggressive were forced to point out a lot of very obvious issues. Glad you finally got to this point, but not sure it had to take this path Considering how confused you are by CCP's initial direction with these changes, perhaps you ought to consider the more logical explanation that it was intentional and they did "cave in". Occam's razor pal.
Considering he has done exactly what he should have done in the first place, I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what the logical route was. They have multiple tools they can use in order to effect their desired outcome. They didn't need to drop the unopened toolbox from a 10-story building onto the problem, and then step themselves back, giving the impression of caving in. The modifications they have now come out with, all generally sensible, would have been the original outcome if they had bothered to discuss details with the CSM they way they should have. Instead, they brought it directly to the rabble using a worst-case scenario. That is bad judgment. And now that they have half of the people happy they showed moderation by using a logical process of change and review, they now have dopes who think they caved in. I guess you'd prefer a bad outcome as long as it means they didn't cave in on your illogical ideas. Make sense. Thank you for your insight, and good day sir. |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
405
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 19:41:00 -
[897] - Quote
snorkle25 wrote:A few suggestions I have:
1. Add a jump route planner function to the star map.
2. Change the Fatigue generation from 1+(LY traveled) to just (LY traveled). Increase fatigue degradation to .25/min. Add Jump Fatigue Compensation skill that increases fatigue reduction by .01/min per level so maxed out skill equates to -.3/min fatigue.
The +1 is there to put a lower bound on the formula. Without it, jumps of under 1LY would actually reduce fatigue as it would be multiplied by a decimal value. |
Momma Yeti
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.10.10 19:53:00 -
[898] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Momma Yeti wrote:CCP... I am still unclear how this is going to "help" break up these massive & dug-in super blocks in nullsec. Wont they just redeploy their assets & industries to compensate for this new mechanic before you deploy this new patch?
If the above is true, in the end the only people you are hurting is the whole of your subscription base in an attempt to lay a blow to the big supers?
We still don't know what else they are going to do to null. But yes, this is exactly what has happened in the past when things have been done with specific intentions in mind. In this thread and the one in the information portal that precedes it you can find links to past dev blogs show as much.
It will be curious to see what happens to the below graphs after the patch.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
But so far the trend (Past Year) hasn't been a positive one...
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cecil b d'milf
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.10.10 20:00:00 -
[899] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:cecil b d'milf wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Rather than nerfing everything into the ground up front, we'd rather catch the really obvious stuff first and then see how the game plays out.
Couldn't agree more. So why was the first devblog so focused on nerfing it all into the ground? Just to get a rise out of the community? Because now we have those who were happy with nerfing it into the ground being made to feel like you are "caving in", when in fact you are taking a logical, methodical approach. But before that we had to experience the threadnaught where those who saw it as unnecessarily aggressive were forced to point out a lot of very obvious issues. Glad you finally got to this point, but not sure it had to take this path Considering how confused you are by CCP's initial direction with these changes, perhaps you ought to consider the more logical explanation that it was intentional and they did "cave in". Occam's razor pal. Considering he has done exactly what he should have done in the first place, I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what the logical route was. They have multiple tools they can use in order to effect their desired outcome. They didn't need to drop the unopened toolbox from a 10-story building onto the problem, and then step themselves back, giving the impression of caving in. The modifications they have now come out with, all generally sensible, would have been the original outcome if they had bothered to discuss details with the CSM they way they should have. Instead, they brought it directly to the rabble using a worst-case scenario. That is bad judgment. And now that they have half of the people happy they showed moderation by using a logical process of change and review, they now have dopes who think they caved in. I guess you'd prefer a bad outcome as long as it means they didn't cave in on your illogical ideas. Make sense. Thank you for your insight, and good day sir.
Considering I was referring to what CCP intended to do and not making a comment about what they ought to have done, your lengthy explanation actually supports my point. It is far more reasonable to assume that CCP fully intended to drop the nerfquake and then backed away in the face of the tear tsunami that resulted. Your own confusion at why CCP would go about things in such an odd way if these tweaks were the original desired end point points to the more simple explanation that it never was the the desired end point. They were not "leaving themselves open to accusations of caving in"... they actually did cave in.
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Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
139
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Posted - 2014.10.10 20:21:00 -
[900] - Quote
I haven't read the 45 pages of replies, but I think this update gives me everything I need to continue to do logistics in 0.0. The 10LY range on the JF is actually quite liberal. I am a big Rorqual advocate but I think keeping the 5 LY range on the Rorq will be fine. Basically, it won't be such a useful hauler to get ore from high sec out to factories. However, the philosophy of the ship as a deep space industrial base does not exactly need it to be able to zip back to Jita all the time. So a 10 LY range on the JF and a 5 LY range on the Rorq with both keeping a 90% fatigue reduction will basically keep null sec indy going, keep the moon goo market going, and enable smaller alliances to be active in more remote areas of space. Overall, these updates fix logistics.
I hadn't been paying so much attention to the BLOPs aspect, but I do think that following the logistics crowd the BLOPs crowd had the most valid objections and it looks like they've been addressed with buffs.
The additions do not change the state of the non-BLOPs capital ships. In my opinion the fatigue and timers and range nerf were appropriate to begin with. In my experience this fatigue idea is better than all the hard controls that players have been recommending for a while. There was one idea that could help cap fleets adjust to the new mechanics, though. If a FC has access to a pilot's fatigue through the fleet window he can kick people who won't be able to jump or who won't be able to make it home.
Basically I think CCP has done a lot of thinking and talking and receiving feedback and has addressed everything and I am happy about these changes as they are. If there is time, though, adding fatigue and jump timer information to the FC view of the fleet window might be an update to consider. |
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