| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 37 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Yuri Thorpe
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
   |
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:11:00 -
[331] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Fleet of 20 bombers warps into their target. 20 bombers land and decloak. Takes longer to align.
Epic game mechanics once again from fozzie. And thus, the point of these changes is revealed. Only took 7 pages, but this guy finally gets how this nerf is intended to work.
So tell me, what will the point of these ships be if they are not stealth bombers but free killmails? |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
548
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:15:00 -
[332] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
- A stat rebalance on the bombers themselves. Short version is significantly more HP, weaker agility, larger sig radius, more cargo (so that they can all carry 3 bombs), smidge more CPU, lower warp speed.
A lot of people seem to forget that bombers aren't only used in nullsec for bombing runs. I fly them extensively in Empire space, and they make a welcome DPS addition to roaming frigate gangs. But with the agility and warp speed changes, you've all but killed the utility of a bomber in those gangs. They will fly, align, and warp more like a destroyer now than a frigate, which undermines one of the inherent strengths of a roaming frigate gang, which is mobility. So now, frigate gangs have to choose: do we want to maintain our mobility, or do we want to actually have enough DPS to take down larger targets?
Was nerfing roaming frigate gangs really one of CCP's intentions with the bomber changes?
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Blastcaps Madullier
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
DARKNESS.
156
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:18:00 -
[333] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: If you want to discuss our policies surrounding isboxer that is fine, but there are other threads for that.
yet the changes your planning on making to SBs as announced to treat a problem which in this case your treating the symptoms NOT the problem, and that problem to put it bluntly IS ]THE USE OF ISBOXER ETC IN PVP ESPECIALY IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE USE OF SBs |
Keith Planck
Lazerhawks
935
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:20:00 -
[334] - Quote
I think I speak for everyone when I say there should be some way to see the location of cloaked fleet members with the new changes.
"Jack Miton liked your forum post:" |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
150
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:22:00 -
[335] - Quote
i need to ask is this the changes to SBs that built upon their unique game play that we were teased about at fan fest? because i don't see how this does that(other then the new bomb) |
Pretty Pony Princess
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:23:00 -
[336] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:I think I speak for everyone when I say there should be some way to see the location of cloaked fleet members with the new changes.
That would be a wonderful idea even without any changes to the cloak/decloak mechanics. |
Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:23:00 -
[337] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Fleet of 20 bombers warps into their target. 20 bombers land and decloak. Takes longer to align.
Epic game mechanics once again from fozzie. And thus, the point of these changes is revealed. Only took 7 pages, but this guy finally gets how this nerf is intended to work.
Stealth Bombers. |
progodlegend
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
177
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:27:00 -
[338] - Quote
Yes, you guys might not be able to warp down to a target at 30km and remained cloaked, and then pre-align your ships before decloaking and bombing.
The horror.
Or actually welcome to how every bombing run worked before the cloak changes. |
Leon Razor
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
26
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:28:00 -
[339] - Quote
CCP, I hope this isn't the final word for the bomber changes. You really missed the mark on this one. Seems like you are a bit better at listening to player feedback these days though so hopefully you rethink this ISBoxer buff. |
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
110
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:29:00 -
[340] - Quote
Anti-capital bomb needs a larger radius. Nothing silly, mind you, but more than 1m. I can definitely see missing the target completely because you released half a second early, especially since the overview rounds distances and they don't update in realtime. How about 500m or 1km?
Also, the warp speed. No way should a t2 frigate be slower than a t1 frigate.
Unless your intent is to reposition Stealth Bombers as t2 Destroyer-class vessels?
Also less-than-pleased about the decloak nerf. As noted by others, this only realistically hurts human players, not people running machine clients. |
Alexis Nightwish
47
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:31:00 -
[341] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Yes, you guys might not be able to warp down to a target at 30km and remained cloaked, and then pre-align your ships before decloaking and bombing.
The horror.
Or actually welcome to how every bombing run worked before the cloak changes.
Because leaving cloaking alone simply requiring the bombers to stay on grid or the bomb doesn't explode is a terrible idea. 
Power Projection: A Brighter Future: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5115336 |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
151
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:32:00 -
[342] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Yes, you guys might not be able to warp down to a target at 30km and remained cloaked, and then pre-align your ships before decloaking and bombing.
The horror.
Or actually welcome to how every bombing run worked before the cloak changes.
no i still can i just have to use ISBoxer rather then fly with friends but if that was the intent then.... |
Shuckstar
The Pack
Fidelas Constans
229
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:32:00 -
[343] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Yes, you guys might not be able to warp down to a target at 30km and remained cloaked, and then pre-align your ships before decloaking and bombing.
The horror.
Or actually welcome to how every bombing run worked before the cloak changes.
 I can't actually believe I am agreeing with you.
CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)" |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
844
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:35:00 -
[344] - Quote
Nys Cron wrote:
This is exactly what I meant earlier. For a larger entity like SSC having dedicated smartbombers or multiple carriers might be feasible but for smaller entities it isn't. They will simply lose one more option to have a chance against larger numbers.
For us on the other hand it could mean that we a guaranteed to win all fights against smaller entites relying on capitals because we can just bring a couple bombers (ideally multiboxed by a single person) and guarantee neuting out their carrier without risking expensive Bhaalgorns and such.
Indeed neuting out a capital should require fielding a bhaal or neut legions or whatever, being able to cap nuke them with bombers and hold em capped with 1-2 incidental neuts is just cheap and nasty.
I can see the intended application against apex forces, etc. but the knock on effect is potentially quite tragic. |
Pretty Pony Princess
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:35:00 -
[345] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Yes, you guys might not be able to warp down to a target at 30km and remained cloaked, and then pre-align your ships before decloaking and bombing.
The horror.
When I'm in a ship that goes *blap* if someone even glances at it, it actually is. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
Naquatech Syndicate
1576
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:37:00 -
[346] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Yes, you guys might not be able to warp down to a target at 30km and remained cloaked, and then pre-align your ships before decloaking and bombing.
The horror.
Or actually welcome to how every bombing run worked before the cloak changes.
Logic says they were bad otherwise CCP would no make them as they are now... and no thay going back. |
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Reckoning Star Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:44:00 -
[347] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Nys Cron wrote:
This is exactly what I meant earlier. For a larger entity like SSC having dedicated smartbombers or multiple carriers might be feasible but for smaller entities it isn't. They will simply lose one more option to have a chance against larger numbers.
For us on the other hand it could mean that we a guaranteed to win all fights against smaller entites relying on capitals because we can just bring a couple bombers (ideally multiboxed by a single person) and guarantee neuting out their carrier without risking expensive Bhaalgorns and such.
Indeed neuting out a capital should require fielding a bhaal or neut legions or whatever, being able to cap nuke them with bombers and hold em capped with 1-2 incidental neuts is just cheap and nasty. I can see the intended application against apex forces, etc. but the knock on effect is potentially quite tragic.
A base Archon has 65k cap and a 2.9k sig radius . Just that alone requires 7 bombers to cap out. At base cap assuming that the sig radius/explosion radius ratio for neut application is what I think it is. Even if it was doing full cap drain that's still 5 bombers unless I'm missing something that's not an inconsequential number of pilots to devote to the task...
|
Tral Karith
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:46:00 -
[348] - Quote
So lets all quit bringing 90 bombers to big fleet fights and fight like real men with guns and missiles
Maybe even some Rokhs and Maelstroms |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
152
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:47:00 -
[349] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:Rroff wrote:Nys Cron wrote:
This is exactly what I meant earlier. For a larger entity like SSC having dedicated smartbombers or multiple carriers might be feasible but for smaller entities it isn't. They will simply lose one more option to have a chance against larger numbers.
For us on the other hand it could mean that we a guaranteed to win all fights against smaller entites relying on capitals because we can just bring a couple bombers (ideally multiboxed by a single person) and guarantee neuting out their carrier without risking expensive Bhaalgorns and such.
Indeed neuting out a capital should require fielding a bhaal or neut legions or whatever, being able to cap nuke them with bombers and hold em capped with 1-2 incidental neuts is just cheap and nasty. I can see the intended application against apex forces, etc. but the knock on effect is potentially quite tragic. A base Archon has 65k cap and a 2.9k sig radius . Just that alone requires 7 bombers to cap out. At base cap assuming that the sig radius/explosion radius ratio for neut application is what I think it is. Even if it was doing full cap drain that's still 5 bombers unless I'm missing something that's not an inconsequential number of pilots to devote to the task...
7 bombers is the size of a wave not to mention that archon is not at full cap it will be repping up its friends probably balancing around 35-45% cap when the bombs hit |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1919
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:48:00 -
[350] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Yes, you guys might not be able to warp down to a target at 30km and remained cloaked, and then pre-align your ships before decloaking and bombing.
The horror.
Or actually welcome to how every bombing run worked before the cloak changes.
That is some great constructive feedback that will appease the players.
How about you stop making things worse and go get us an answer regarding cloaked ships showing to fleet mates?!
+1 |
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Reckoning Star Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:49:00 -
[351] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Obil Que wrote:Rroff wrote:Nys Cron wrote:
This is exactly what I meant earlier. For a larger entity like SSC having dedicated smartbombers or multiple carriers might be feasible but for smaller entities it isn't. They will simply lose one more option to have a chance against larger numbers.
For us on the other hand it could mean that we a guaranteed to win all fights against smaller entites relying on capitals because we can just bring a couple bombers (ideally multiboxed by a single person) and guarantee neuting out their carrier without risking expensive Bhaalgorns and such.
Indeed neuting out a capital should require fielding a bhaal or neut legions or whatever, being able to cap nuke them with bombers and hold em capped with 1-2 incidental neuts is just cheap and nasty. I can see the intended application against apex forces, etc. but the knock on effect is potentially quite tragic. A base Archon has 65k cap and a 2.9k sig radius . Just that alone requires 7 bombers to cap out. At base cap assuming that the sig radius/explosion radius ratio for neut application is what I think it is. Even if it was doing full cap drain that's still 5 bombers unless I'm missing something that's not an inconsequential number of pilots to devote to the task... 7 bombers is the size of a wave not to mention that archon is not at full cap it will be repping up its friends probably balancing around 35-45% cap when the bombs hit
Right. Thanks. I don't have EFT in front of me to see what the total cap might be on a typical carrier pilot but the tone of the criticism was making it seem like a less than full wave of bombers was going to decimate a cap fielded by a smaller group. If you're dropping a carrier on a group that can *also* send a wave of 7 bombers at you, maybe you made a bad decision to being with because if those pilots where in other ships, you'd probably be screwed too.
|
Herrin Asura
Covert Agency for Surreptitious Annihilation
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:49:00 -
[352] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:
Or actually welcome to how every bombing run worked before the cloak changes.
And EVERYONE was HAPPY that these times changed.
Why? Because Bombers sucked back then. |
Saisin
State War Academy
Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:50:00 -
[353] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Saisin wrote:
When doing a fleet warp, please keep the positions of all the members in the fleet relative to each others identical than what it was at the beginning of the warp, rather than making all of them warp randomly within a 2km bubble at the warp out point.
this would be amazing and not just for bombers use the person who initiated the fleet warp as a reference for where the "center" is when landing
Absolutely..
The person who initiated the warp fleet does land within a bubble 2km from the warp out point, like it does today, but all the other fleet members would land exactly in their original relative positions from the person who initiated the fleet warp.
I think it should be a new fleet warp option (Formation warp), rather than a replacement to the current fleet warp, as the current fleet warp as it is would still be useful to travel from gates to gates.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope
http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
4264
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:50:00 -
[354] - Quote
Cloaked ships de-cloaking other ships basically takes the fun out of bombers UNLESS you also make it possible to see cloaked ships in your fleet. |
fox targaryen
Nordwaffe
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:52:00 -
[355] - Quote
>Cloaked ships will once again decloak each other if they come within 2km.
you have killed real bomber fleets and buffed ISBoxer with this change |
Jean Leaner
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
97
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:52:00 -
[356] - Quote
The number of logical fallacies being used to justify people disliking this change is hilarious. |
Trey Kutoi
Nyarlthotep Holdings Ltd.
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:53:00 -
[357] - Quote
since bombs have constant velocity, can we give bombers cruises (and missiles in general) and make them useful by assigning them mass, then giving them an acceleration value?That way they have the option of projecting damage to targets without instablapping all the little stuff in between.
Also I like the idea of unguided weapons, perhaps creating 'true' rockets rather than 'lower range higher dps light missiles' or whatever.
As a new player, perhaps I don't understand the nuances behind interweaved mechanics, but from the littleI've seen so far, something feels missing with delayed damage weapon systems |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
152
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:56:00 -
[358] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:
Right. Thanks. I don't have EFT in front of me to see what the total cap might be on a typical carrier pilot but the tone of the criticism was making it seem like a less than full wave of bombers was going to decimate a cap fielded by a smaller group. If you're dropping a carrier on a group that can *also* send a wave of 7 bombers at you, maybe you made a bad decision to being with because if those pilots where in other ships, you'd probably be screwed too.
not really if you have a group of good pilots a single triage carrier can multiply your force to an extreme level but they would only need maybe 3-4 bombers and a curse to neut out an archon that is actively repping. just knocking an archon down below max recharge can kill it in triage.
now i'm not saying these bombs will destroy the chance of a small gang in every case i can see that and it may come to pass that they don't see wide use outside of ganking a ratting carrier or a supper fight however there is a chance that this could cripple small WH corps. On the flip side it can also make attacking a C1-C4 hole easier since you can now remove the home field cap advantage but that isn't quite as common |
Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
705
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 20:01:00 -
[359] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:I think I speak for everyone when I say there should be some way to see the location of cloaked fleet members with the new changes.
This. |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
320
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 20:07:00 -
[360] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:These changes are intended to make it easier for fleets to counter bombers (whether the bombers are isboxed or not) and to make organization of characters valuable again for bombing. Organization of pilots is made easier in a lot of ways with isboxer, but that has always been true and isn't some new phenomenon coming from these changes.
Umm... bombing has been completely viable- why do you think there's next to no shield BS used in null anymore? Hell, none of this ends the stifling effect bombers have on fleet comps. And it just is a further boon to isboxing bombers. |
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