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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Mysor McGuinness
Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two
1
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:16:00 -
[211] - Quote
Great changes, happy to see the iskboxing bombers life become a bit harder, if its not for the decloaking part then the decrease of agility can still hurt them.
Only thing that could worry me a little is that bomb runs will be a lot harder to do as you can no squad warp (will decloak us on landing) so individual pilots will need to position themselves. Then again, this is doable and bombing shouldnt be too easy!
Overall, good changes, keep it coming CCP! |
Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
6
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:16:00 -
[212] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Cloaked ships will once again decloak each other if they come within 2km.
:( Not sure at all about the logic behind this. |
Tray LiSans
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Unthinkables
0
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:17:00 -
[213] - Quote
Making cloaked ships uncloak each other again is really just an awful idea all around. It's already frustratingly common for some knuckledragger to accidentally uncloak friendlies.
Essentially what reverting this change will do is remove every covops fleet except multiboxers. |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
106
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:19:00 -
[214] - Quote
Yi Hyori wrote:... a very long, but well thought out, series of posts...
Everything you said about the current mechanics, and the pros/cons of armor/shield doctrine fleets is absolutely true. However, I have a very easy fix that follows a very old saying, "don't put all your eggs in one basket." Or, in eve terms, spread your fleets out. Have several anchors, and have those anchors be far enough away from each other that bombing runs hit a fraction of your fleet instead of everyone. This, btw, is also one of the best defenses against pipe bombing.
Bombs are area denial weapons, or pilot-density punishments, or both depending on how you look at it.
Go for the harder to fit and lesser damage doctrines that allow you to sit at farther ranges. Then the wings cover (overlapping fields of fire?) each other, make themselves less of a target, and make fleet combat more strategic for attackers and defenders. Have fast tackle orbiting at 30km with swarms of assisted drones instead of with the rest of the core so they can decloak or react quickly to decloaking bombers. Have cruisers orbiting (or if numbers are a problem, at likely bombing run vectors) at 15km with smartbombs ready to defend the squishy, delicious, center. There are many, MANY, counters to bomber fleets.
Adapt or die, can i have your stuff, and all that. (that last bit not directed at you personally, but to the whiners) I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic.
Please, for the love of the whatever you hold dear, stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".-á It is "uh-bad-in" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abaddon |
Suzuka A1
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
38
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:19:00 -
[215] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:Good job nerfing every single cloaking ship in the game Just because you (CCP) chose to allow the use of ISBoxer doesn't mean you need to nerf everyone else's game.
t0ny7 suggested on reddit that having an onlined bomb launcher could cause the decloak. Suggestion on Reddit.
It's not an appropriate solution to ISBoxer, but it's better than what you have proposed. Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H-á What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74
Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626 |
Dekyk
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:20:00 -
[216] - Quote
I am totally fine with all these changes except for cloaked ships de-cloaking each other. It is the worst idea I have seen in any patch since the Incarna fiasco and I can see that almost every response posted in this thread so far is in overwhelming agreement. This is a Ret**ded change and here's why:
- Firstly, CCP admitted it was a bug back when cloaked ships de-cloaking each other was first raised with them. So putting it back in and saying it used to be a feature is just plain stupid.
- Secondly, when you fixed the "bug" back then you did it with almost overwhelming support of the playerbase. So what the hell makes you think everyone suddenly changed their minds and is going to be happy with this da-shiang bao-tza shr duh lah doo-tze?!
- Finally, even if you disregard the first two points, it doesn't take away from the fact that this makes running all the other ships with cloaks a giant pain in the rectum without providing them any bonuses to offset the nerf.
Please retract this change.
Please.
Think of the children.
-Dek |
Kleb Zellock
Control-Space DARKNESS.
0
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:21:00 -
[217] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:This is a sad day to Cov op pilots and I was counting the days on when you will tackle black ops... pls don't touch black ops It seems any sense regarding how cov ops fleet works nor have the courage to ban ISBoxing and you took the easier route..GJ CCP.
This does touch BlOps. It's ALL cloaked ships. |
Vel'drinn
Sol Research and Development Aurora Foundation
39
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:21:00 -
[218] - Quote
August - Breeze wrote:I love these changes! Many more ship types will be flown now and that is a good thing for EVE! There were just to many ships that could not be flown in fleets because bombers would way to easily destroy them all. More varied fleets compositions can now legitimately be fielded. Battleship fleets are now more viable.
Small gang roams and gate camps are also heading towards getting boring as everything was getting too "cloaky" and "nullified". I am 100% in favor of a cloaked ship decloaking each other. This is a step in the right direction.
I like every one of these changes because I think they will make the game MUCH more diverse and healthy.
One option available is not packing hundreds of ships at a fixed point. You know, maybe spread out a little and fight multiple fronts.
This change will make bombers overly obtuse to use and require a lot of experience to fly effectively.
The time to setup warpins without decloaking everybody is going to be a nightmare even for a small gang.
With the added signature radius and proximity decloak there are going to be a lot of dead bombers no matter how good the warp in.
I'll echo the best comments I've seen so far by highlighting the need to see cloaked fleet members if this goes through. It won't matter how good your pilots are if they risk tripping over each other in space. All it takes is one error to cause a decloak chain reaction then you kiss your fleet goodbye. That's not skill, its random blind frustration. |
Aram Kachaturian
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
123
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:24:00 -
[219] - Quote
Could you please calm down people ?
CCP Fozzie has the hardcore almost impossible task to please everyone each time his team changes a game mechanic.
Back in the days, effective bomber fleets were rare and elite. When I was part of True Reign, we used to bomb Red Alliance & cie blobs. Setting up our bookmarks and warping hours before the fights, coordinating our moves to avoid decloaking each others. Despite the efforts, a successful bomb run meant something, it meant eliteness. Those were the days.
Nowadays, its way to easy and accessible. And please dont throw me the dictors bubbles shield around fleets or the lag, we had to manage it too in the past.
Godspeed CCP
Edit: More clothes on the market plz Official Poster:-áhttp://i.imgur.com/oTdKSTi.jpg (Limited stock, contact me to order) |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
226
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:24:00 -
[220] - Quote
Nys Cron wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:with the changes to bomb speed a few smart bombs are your counter So you either sacrifice two highslots on the Carrier (why are you even bringing one then?) or you have to position ships around it in all directions (you don't know where the bombs will come from). This would require a lot of ships and is not really feasible, especially in wspace.
What's that? You will have to use non-capitals to SUPPORT your caps? Inconceivable! |
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Black Canary Jnr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
121
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:24:00 -
[221] - Quote
Thank you for showing an appreciation for physics and not allowing 50 bombers to occupy the same space, while cloaked, whilst not being smushed into a ball of scrap.
Realism 1, Bomber fanboys 0 |
Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
704
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:25:00 -
[222] - Quote
"cloaked ships will now de-cloak at 2k again...."
:(
Restoring a bug doesn't seem like a great way to nerf ISboxing bomber fleets
That nerfs ALL cloaked ships working together not just bombers.
This means that all cloaked ships in warp together will likely de-cloak the whole fleet.
This is an inconvenience that doesn't need to exist and bringing it back right now, just doesn't make much sense. |
Kleb Zellock
Control-Space DARKNESS.
0
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:30:00 -
[223] - Quote
Aram Kachaturian wrote:Could you please calm down people ?
CCP Fozzie has the hardcore almost impossible task to please everyone each time his team changes a game mechanic.
Back in the days, effective bomber fleets were rare and elite. When I was part of True Reign, we used to bomb Red Alliance & cie blobs. Setting up our bookmarks and warping hours before the fights, coordinating our moves to avoid decloaking each others. Despite the efforts, a successful bomb run meant something, it meant eliteness. Those were the days.
Nowadays, its way to easy and accessible. And please dont throw me the dictors bubbles shield around fleets or the lag, we had to manage it too in the past.
Godspeed CCP
Edit: More clothes on the market plz
Not everyone has hours to spend getting ready for a fight that may or may not happen. Not to mention the incredible learning curve this adds to new players that may want to explore this aspect of the game, but won't be l33t enough to get to fly with most groups. Not a very social way to play an MMO. |
Pretty Pony Princess
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:31:00 -
[224] - Quote
Good job. Instead of fixing the real problem, which is isboxing, bombers and other covert fleets are made useless.
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Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
411
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:33:00 -
[225] - Quote
I understand the ISD points about ISBoxer. While it is relevant to the discussion and we wish to balance with it in mind, calls to ban it are definitely off topic and risk getting the thread shut down.
I'm not 100% sure about the medium smartbombs change- I understand the desire to give more anti-bomb options, but the point of smartbombs is that they do AoE damage. Being able to take out a wave if bombs with a single med smartbombs pulse seems overpowered to me. Now, if you want an anti-bomb option for smaller ships that scales differently than a smartbombs, maybe we can resurrect something long left useless and unused by EVE players... Maybe we should bring back Defender missiles rebalanced to be anti-bomb munitions. |
Aram Kachaturian
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
123
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:36:00 -
[226] - Quote
Kleb Zellock wrote:
Not everyone has hours to spend getting ready for a fight that may or may not happen. [...) won't be l33t enough to get to fly with most groups. Not a very social way to play an MMO.
We are playing EvE, not World Of Warcraft.
We had enough contents added for the casual players by CCP. Official Poster:-áhttp://i.imgur.com/oTdKSTi.jpg (Limited stock, contact me to order) |
oodell
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:36:00 -
[227] - Quote
I mostly agree that these changes are needed. The agility and warp speed is one of the main things that tipped bombers over the top recently. Making them easier to defend against is good.
This does NOT address the huge imbalance of bombs against certain types of ships. The 100% dependence on sig radius is bad, in my opinion. Augoror Navy Issues can take around 112 shrapnel bombs with full boosts and heat. A shield rupture can barely take 7 - less with a MWD on. There are problems with the Megathron vs Rokh and battlecruisers as well.
You'd have to tweak the numbers, but why not drop the sig radius of bombs from 400 to ~250-300 (thus making sig tanking ships a bit easier to hit) while adding an explosion velocity attribute? If this was the case, fast-moving ships (read: shield ships which generally have higher mobility) would take less damage than today, assuming they're moving, but sig tanked ships like Augorors and Megathrons would actually be killable in certain situations. Shield ships can use their higher mobility to protect themselves, armor tanks can use their superior sig. I haven't run the numbers on this, but it seems a reasonable way to balance this problem out. It would also mean frigates which are moving at MWD speed may not take damage at all, unlike today where a fleet can be stripped of their light frigates quite easily.
The above could also potentially help shield BS, which are all but useless right now, and battlecruisers, which are vulnerable due to their sig.
Lockbreakers are still in a bad place and won't see any usage.
It looks like the Nemesis is still completely awful PGU wise, at least it isn't the slowest to align anymore.
At the same time, the cloaking change doesn't really do anything other than make life miserable for everyone, including blops drops, cloaky gatecamps and other roles. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
146
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:37:00 -
[228] - Quote
Excellent changes. I support the decloaking effect. Frankly, i support any mechanic that prevents fleets from being one thinking FC and a bunch of F1 mashers. Now that we have introduced the radical concept of individual piloting to SB fleets, can we also make it so that the more people orbiting the FC the higher everyone's sig radius gets?
Also, I am SOO happy about the extra CPU.
And the anti-cap bomb looks fun.
Great work once again. |
ulililillia
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:38:00 -
[229] - Quote
Suzuka A1 wrote:I was really looking forward to seeing more triage carriers used with 20-50 man gangs, but with ONE bomber being able to nuke 15k cap it's no longer a viable tactic.
[Q] Would you consider adding void bomb resists to cap batteries and maybe adding capital size cap batteries?
Or they could add a viable anti bombing mechanic/module, instead of doing these half assed changes |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
1300
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:39:00 -
[230] - Quote
Quote: Cloaked ships will once again decloak each other if they come within 2km. Stupid idea. Thank god I am no longer in WH space. DISCLAIMER : All of the above replies are not meant as any form of harassment. It's all SciFi. YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - ADAPT OR DIE - DELETE THE WEAK
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
772
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:39:00 -
[231] - Quote
oodell wrote:I mostly agree that these changes are needed. The agility and warp speed is one of the main things that tipped bombers over the top recently. Making them easier to defend against is good.
This does NOT address the huge imbalance of bombs against certain types of ships. The 100% dependence on sig radius is bad, in my opinion. Augoror Navy Issues can take around 112 shrapnel bombs with full boosts and heat. A shield rupture can barely take 7 - less with a MWD on. There are problems with the Megathron vs Rokh and battlecruisers as well.
You'd have to tweak the numbers, but why not drop the sig radius of bombs from 400 to ~250-300 (thus making sig tanking ships a bit easier to hit) while adding an explosion velocity attribute? If this was the case, fast-moving ships (read: shield ships which generally have higher mobility) would take less damage than today, assuming they're moving, but sig tanked ships like Augorors and Megathrons would actually be killable in certain situations. Shield ships can use their higher mobility to protect themselves, armor tanks can use their superior sig. I haven't run the numbers on this, but it seems a reasonable way to balance this problem out. It would also mean frigates which are moving at MWD speed may not take damage at all, unlike today where a fleet can be stripped of their light frigates quite easily.
The above could also potentially help shield BS, which are all but useless right now, and battlecruisers, which are vulnerable due to their sig.
Lockbreakers are still in a bad place and won't see any usage.
It looks like the Nemesis is still completely awful PGU wise, at least it isn't the slowest to align anymore.
At the same time, the cloaking change doesn't really do anything other than make life miserable for everyone, including blops drops, cloaky gatecamps and other roles.
You are correct that shield fleets need to be addressed a little vs bombs. Yaay!!!! |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1328
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:40:00 -
[232] - Quote
Jessica Danikov wrote:I'm fine with cloaked ships decloaking each other, but it has to be done with fleet members able to see other cloaked fleet members, otherwise this change is dumb as hell
100% true.
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:43:00 -
[233] - Quote
Pritovsky Pootis wrote:Great. Another wide sweeping change from fozzie that once again fails to take in the big picture. Just because some people use bombers via isbot in nullsec and someone cried that their fleets died doesn't mean you have to nerf every single cloaked ship in the game. Terrible idea to have cloaked ships decloak each-other (without even letting you SEE other fleet members). Like some have said this effectively kills ALL fleet warps of cloaked ships, even non bombers eg. T3s.
In WH space where cloaked ships are pretty much essential this feels like a big middle finger to us especially after the mass changes (and the ignored feedback). I can only hope, probably in vain, that this time you might actually change your mind.
Tear bears in the blue doughnut cry, fozzie jumps. |
Kleb Zellock
Control-Space DARKNESS.
0
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:44:00 -
[234] - Quote
Aram Kachaturian wrote:Kleb Zellock wrote:
Not everyone has hours to spend getting ready for a fight that may or may not happen. [...) won't be l33t enough to get to fly with most groups. Not a very social way to play an MMO.
We are playing EvE, not World Of Warcraft. We had enough contents added for the casual players by CCP.
So in your Eve only players with years of experience and no job or family to get in the way of their play time are worthy of strapping themselves into a pod? All the other peasants should find there way to an instanced foam covered themepark rather than dirty up your tear farming utopia? |
Arkon Olacar
Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective
426
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:45:00 -
[235] - Quote
The changes are good, but only if combined with a blanket ban on ISBoxer. Right now there is no point in running bombing fleets, and bombing has just become completely monopolised by one dude multiboxing. Warping to zero |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2894
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:46:00 -
[236] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: We'll be watching these changes very carefully on SISI, and if this hits bombers too hard we can easily make adjustments. .
no sure if SISI will give you any usable data for balancing SBs. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
145
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:48:00 -
[237] - Quote
Suzuka A1 wrote:I was really looking forward to seeing more triage carriers used with 20-50 man gangs, but with ONE bomber being able to nuke 15k cap it's no longer a viable tactic.
[Q] Would you consider adding void bomb resists to cap batteries and maybe adding capital size cap batteries?
It would be great if they went back over and looked at batteries give them stronger resists to neuts so that their is a reson to use them over rechargers |
Aram Kachaturian
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
126
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:49:00 -
[238] - Quote
Kleb Zellock wrote: All the other peasants should find there way to an instanced foam covered themepark rather than dirty up your tear farming utopia?
You read in my mind, good job.
Hardcore players need contents to show their eliteness and flatter their ego.
By the way, im getting laid multiple times by week.
Official Poster:-áhttp://i.imgur.com/oTdKSTi.jpg (Limited stock, contact me to order) |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3398
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:51:00 -
[239] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: We'll be watching these changes very carefully on SISI, and if this hits bombers too hard we can easily make adjustments. .
no sure if SISI will give you any usable data for balancing SBs.
Of course it won't. Using a poorly provisioned test server that has an average daily population of a couple hundred except on the days they give away play SP is one of the worst things I have ever seen as far as QA goes. "i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
437
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:52:00 -
[240] - Quote
Even though these changes to decloaking might be a bit too harsh, I'm too much enjoying the tears in this thread to formulate anything more complicated. |
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