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Gang mechanics and ganking ppl (New tactic impossible to evade)

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Infinity Ziona Feet Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.04 05:27:00 - [61] Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Toki Asturias Originally by: Merin Ryskin NOT AN EXPLOIT: Inviting players to a gang with warring pilots to kill them. EXPLOIT: Setting the invitation order in a way that bypasses the intended "warring pilots in your gang" message. I agree with this. The warning is there to tell people information that is necasarry that could not be gathered otherwise. Circumventing this warning does not seem to be what was intended. Then again who's dumb enough to join some random person's gang with a faction ship? This does have the negative side effect of making it much harder to trust a real noob who is having difficulties. This can make Eve very hard to get into for new players. New players are necasarry for the continuing survival of any online game. solution 1: accept the invite, have your corpmates ready inside a bubble, make excuse that you cant seem to warp to them, and have them warp too you....kill the noob as soon as he shows regardless of who else shows up... solution 2: kill all noobs on site with suicidal gank squads. solution 3: BLOB the noob stations with Apocs full of smartbombs, killing anything using one Apoc at a time...(concord loot cans?) solution 4: distribute clue; trust nobody in a game like Eve...until they have earned it...and then trust them less... Obviously from the book - 'Impractical Ways for Psychic People to Deal with Exploiters' By Sum Darmarse. Click Me
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.09.04 05:54:00 - [62] Originally by: Hellspawn01 How is that not an exploit? It's not a bug or unintended feature. -Kal /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Striker IV Gallente Brother in Arms Corp	Posted - 2006.09.04 06:31:00 - [63] [[[ Just to be clear: NOT AN EXPLOIT: Inviting players to a gang with warring pilots to kill them. EXPLOIT: Setting the invitation order in a way that bypasses the intended "warring pilots in your gang" message.]]] i agree to this as well. a person should have the option to see whose getting invited Especially with warring members being invited. a new low lofty , glad to see your using up the GM's valueable time as well checking on " is this ok masta? you got 1 GM you consistantly talk to , cuz hes an idiot. Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.09.04 06:36:00 - [64] Originally by: DukDodgerz CCP encourages and wants you to use any means possible to gank and grief... why haven't the masses figured this out?? QFT! Main reasons I'm too bored to play currently. WoW offers me much more ENTERTAIMENT and FUN (Read those two words again and again, then add TO ME at the end. Then figure out what means "TO ME". Saying "TO ME" means that I get more bang for my bucks. I don't play EVE to please you or how you want me to play it aka. be your soft target). Unnerf Amarr! "Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
Hakera	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:10:00 - [65] ironically, the original changes to gangs and wars etc were brought in because of exactly this situation. A hostile corp you were at war with, would often have out of corp mates in gang who would be able to attack you the second you attacked him, you would be none the wise beforehand of these apparant neutrals.
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:33:00 - [66] Originally by: Hakera ironically, the original changes to gangs and wars etc were brought in because of exactly this situation. A hostile corp you were at war with, would often have out of corp mates in gang who would be able to attack you the second you attacked him, you would be none the wise beforehand of these apparant neutrals. Linkage Good everyone off to jita will mean no more suicide ganks (well for t2 BPOs) otherwise should be fun might empty the system out and a good anti macro miner tool as they also accept gang invites for some reason
Tao Han Caldari Crucial Electronics	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:39:00 - [67] The only sad thing about this is that ppl stop helping the real newbies. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes Leave my sigs alone *sob - Tao Han

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:54:00 - [68] Veldspar What is stupid though, is that all become wartargets, imo CCP should just allow gangs to fire on each other, problem solved since noone would accept a gang invite from an unknown by then. I for one per default do not accept gang invites unless its a must, and then by someone whom I do trust. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.04 08:13:00 - [69] Wow... This has gotten sad now... Normally I take the side of the pirates when it comes to suicide kills or gang kills because they help remove n00bs from EVE. Now this seems like an exploit to me! Killing a n00b who is too lazy to read the "Join Warring Gang" popup is fine, but doing it this way so they don't get the popup at all is just low... You have lost all respect now lofty!
bunmastahflex Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.09.04 08:15:00 - [70] Originally by: Tao Han The only sad thing about this is that ppl stop helping the real newbies. they have a help channel.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 08:17:00 - [71] I'd say this should be disallowed because the victim receives zero warning, and it IS impossible to avoid if you want to use the gang mechanic with anyone but a corpmate. Incidentall, Lofty, you know you can shoot corpmates? I forsee "Loftycorp is recruiting" posts Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Mikal Drey Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.09.04 08:25:00 - [72] hey hey While i think its absolutly hilarious that people are still falling for that very old and lame trick and lame people are exploiting it to other peoples expense. I 100% believe that its preventing people from getting Geniune help. CCP should seperate war targets from gang mates. that would end it :) it used to be you could atack any gang mate . . nerfed cause of some griefing it became gangmates war=yours too . . . brought in due to some poor sportsman PvP tactics now players will use a neutral player then gang in the others which circumvents ANY warnings about a gang. - this is where lofty lost my respect. advice for the future - accept a gang from a neutral player but if someone joins the gang . . . leave. gangmates wars shouldnt be yours. and with the introduction of the overvies and the ability to select war targets only this will remove that old and lame PvP tactic. lofty29 : "An exploit is something that cannot be avoided. This can be avoided, quite easily" - not easily. The player doesnt get a candidate warning once hes in gang so I think you certainly found a newer way to grief/gank - shame on you "Uhhhm. I've been doing this for well over 5 months. It isnt new" -yup and im still suprised that some accept a gang invite from you - wait, they didnt you used a scam. unfortunatly this tactic has had bad side affects, still makes me laugh, but hopefuly CCP wont see the funny side and blast this tactic out the sky.
Daka Daka	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:10:00 - [73] Errr this may be a silly suggestion but can you not just leave the gang? Dak
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:11:00 - [74] Originally by: Daka Daka Errr this may be a silly suggestion but can you not just leave the gang? Dak well, you have to see them and be able to leave (which also requires that you haven't dock/undocked/jumped within 30seconds) and leave before they get a single shot in, which, unless you are religiously watching that gang chat, is not going to happen, and even then, probably won't. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
SurfinSeaOtter	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:19:00 - [75] Or here's a way to avoid it... dont gang up with peopel outside your corp unless they allies
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:22:00 - [76] Originally by: SurfinSeaOtter Or here's a way to avoid it... dont gang up with peopel outside your corp unless they allies CCP are going to take a while to fix this and it hasnt been declared an exploit and even then petitions are so far behind no one would get any response anywya, so i do encourage everyone to use this tactic even if to teach this lame noob corpers to get their buts into a player corp and or not to accept gang invites from peeps they dont trust
Vandervecken Smith Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:26:00 - [77] Put very simply: You get a warning that a member of the gang you are joining can make you a war target. You should therefore get a warning whenever a member joins your gang that makes you a target. Also, what is the rationale for limiting gang changes if you've jumped/docked/undocked recently?
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:30:00 - [78] The noob that invites you waits till you are near him, then he scrambles you and invites the others. This is bypassing the warning and the part that is the exploit. Ship lovers click here
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Hellspawn01 The noob that invites you waits till you are near him, then he scrambles you and invites the others. This is bypassing the warning and the part that is the exploit. If a senior GM says that it isn't ,it isn't .Maybe people could try not to gang with guys that they don't know about? And you say this newbie is your friend?Man then teach him not to accept gangs from everybody, i teach my friends that thing on their first day on eve. This tactic is some funny thing
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:36:00 - [80] Since its so easy to do, and affects a core mechanic of the game (i.e. if you allow its use, gangs in empire are effectively a gamble whether you get ganked or not), I would classify it as an exploit if I were CCP. Fortunately I don't live in Empire, so your chance of ever catching me with this little 'tactic' are just about 0.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:43:00 - [81] Originally by: Malachon Draco Since its so easy to do, and affects a core mechanic of the game (i.e. if you allow its use, gangs in empire are effectively a gamble whether you get ganked or not), I would classify it as an exploit if I were CCP. Fortunately I don't live in Empire, so your chance of ever catching me with this little 'tactic' are just about 0. God forbid that ,they could actually don't accept gang invite ?
Broglo	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:45:00 - [82] Is it griefing, hell yeah. BUT, a pirate is, by definition, a griefer. This what a pirate does. Finds an easy target and takes them out. They use deception, they cheat and they take advantage of every opportunity possible. This is why I think EVE is so neat. It is probably one of the few MMORPG's that really mirror the real world. Is it bad for newbs (i.e. no one will gang and help)... yes. BUT, how much help should you expect in a untamed wilderness of space. IS Loft and his crew a bunch of jerks who trick people, use game dynamics to avoid repercussions for their actions and take advantage of nice people? Yes. But, they are pirates. They are jerks, but I don't recall many history books that cover stories about really nice pirates. In sum, it sucks to be taken advantage of. Many times after getting toasted ona gate camp, or jumped in .4 space, i get a little frustrated. But, then I laugh. I rememebr the first time I got taken for a mission scam. I was a newbie, just got my first million, thought it wa s a big deal, saw a mission for 500k and was like, wow, this is great 50% profit and only two jumps. Grabbed the mission, money went bye bye and the cargo was not to be found. At first, I was very upset, but then I thought, "Hey, this game even allows dyamics for crooks. The only thing I wish is that there were some more dyanmics for getting back at these types of crooks. The only thing I think is wrong, id that lefty as his crew should be losing security rankings. That is the only part about this that I think is an exploit. There must be soem consequnce. I can imagine that they fooled Concord command into thinking it was an alliance war issue, but when the Victim came back to port and told COncord what happened, they could say, "Oh crap, we were duped, make a note in his permanent file." (You know your permanent file will follow you forever .
Norma Stitz	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:47:00 - [83] Just a question: once the noob has scrambled you, is leaving gang whilst he is inviting the gankers a defence? i.e. can those gankers then engage you ?
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:48:00 - [84] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Sergio Ling impossible to evade? now THAT'S bullcrap just dont gang with people you don't know Exactly why it isnt an exploit Honorable tactic, certainly not. Whithin game mechanics, most definatly. Stop whinning, the gang text specifically warns you about this risk when you join, reading 4tw. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:54:00 - [85] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Sergio Ling impossible to evade? now THAT'S bullcrap just dont gang with people you don't know Exactly why it isnt an exploit Honorable tactic, certainly not. Whithin game mechanics, most definatly. Stop whinning, the gang text specifically warns you about this risk when you join, reading 4tw. I clearly stated that there was no warning at first place. Ignorance 4tw. Ship lovers click here
Flitz Farseeker Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:55:00 - [86] If the noob scrambles you, can you then fire on him? It's obviously a setup at that moment and you can at least send the alt home in a pod (or to the clone vats). Quitting the gang (if possible) so that you can get Concord involved would be an even better option
Calprimus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:55:00 - [87] Originally by: Broglo Is it griefing, hell yeah. BUT, a pirate is, by definition, a griefer. This what a pirate does. Finds an easy target and takes them out. They use deception, they cheat and they take advantage of every opportunity possible. This is why I think EVE is so neat. It is probably one of the few MMORPG's that really mirror the real world. Is it bad for newbs (i.e. no one will gang and help)... yes. BUT, how much help should you expect in a untamed wilderness of space. IS Loft and his crew a bunch of jerks who trick people, use game dynamics to avoid repercussions for their actions and take advantage of nice people? Yes. But, they are pirates. They are jerks, but I don't recall many history books that cover stories about really nice pirates. In sum, it sucks to be taken advantage of. Many times after getting toasted ona gate camp, or jumped in .4 space, i get a little frustrated. But, then I laugh. I rememebr the first time I got taken for a mission scam. I was a newbie, just got my first million, thought it wa s a big deal, saw a mission for 500k and was like, wow, this is great 50% profit and only two jumps. Grabbed the mission, money went bye bye and the cargo was not to be found. At first, I was very upset, but then I thought, "Hey, this game even allows dyamics for crooks. The only thing I wish is that there were some more dyanmics for getting back at these types of crooks. The only thing I think is wrong, id that lefty as his crew should be losing security rankings. That is the only part about this that I think is an exploit. There must be soem consequnce. I can imagine that they fooled Concord command into thinking it was an alliance war issue, but when the Victim came back to port and told COncord what happened, they could say, "Oh crap, we were duped, make a note in his permanent file." (You know your permanent file will follow you forever . Agree. a) That tactic should be reviewed by the devs. b) If allowed, consequences must hit the jer.... ahem the pirates. c) No team up to unkonw players. That means, no potential way to make new friends, to help new players (the real ones) in enjoing this game. Go CCP, go.... By the way, and this is important clarification, real pirates were living outside the law, protected by noone except themselves, continuosly hunted by, well, almost anyone. Do us a favour, don't call yourself a pirate and do the "yarr" thing. You just a scammer, a lame one.....
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2006.09.04 09:57:00 - [88] No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war. However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first. That seems to make it pretty clear. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 10:02:00 - [89] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Malachon Draco Since its so easy to do, and affects a core mechanic of the game (i.e. if you allow its use, gangs in empire are effectively a gamble whether you get ganked or not), I would classify it as an exploit if I were CCP. Fortunately I don't live in Empire, so your chance of ever catching me with this little 'tactic' are just about 0. God forbid that ,they could actually don't accept gang invite ? Yes an option, but that means that gang invites in Empire, outside of your own corp can't be used anymore? Personally, I would consider the consequence of accepting this such a big blow to a core element of gameplay (ganging with people) that I would not allow it if I were CCP.
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 10:07:00 - [90] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war. However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first. That seems to make it pretty clear. Apparently you dont really get it. THERE WAS NO WARNING ABOUT AN ONGOING WAR WHEN HE GOT INVITED. Ship lovers click here

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