EVE Search - Gang mechanics and ganking ppl (New tactic impossible to evade)

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Gang mechanics and ganking ppl (New tactic impossible to evade)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:41:00 - [121] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Verus Potestas Extract from logs Yes, it does say that, but I have written confirmation from a GM that I am allowed to continue to use this method. I received it back in about april, after being petitioned for the first time. I was warned, and when I asked what the problem was with using it, the warning was retracted and I was allowed to use this method. Once CCP declares it an exploit, I will cease use. well it seems now that u advertised it there has been at least 6 different busy systems today where i have been ganged of course ive ignored them and blocked them but until we have a dev stand up in the forums apply a sticky and say its an exploit until we are working on a fix then it remains vaiale - should work to empty some of those lagged out 200 ppl in local systems tho
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:44:00 - [122] COLOURED TEXT MAKES THE BABY JESUS CRY, K? Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
DDaisy VentureCorp CORE.	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:45:00 - [123] TBH I could not be bothered reading this thread in its entirety as I was beginning to lose the will to live. My understanding of the gang invite process is that is does not include an option to leave the gang if someone joins who is at war with another member of the gang. This is where it QUITE CLEARLY is an exploit as the person who has innocently accepted the gang invite to HELP someone in the way that CCP SELLS this game as a COMMUNITY DRIVEN game, is then totally unaware that further gang members have joined who are in fact at war with each other. In order to counter this the original invitee would have to have the corporation section open all the time to observe the current wars and watch for members being invited. Hardly the way the game was intended to be played so therefore an exploit?
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:49:00 - [124] Originally by: Verus Potestas Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa Originally by: lofty29 An exploit is something that cannot be avoided. This can be avoided, quite easily. Sorry, but that's not the definition of an exploit. An exploit by definition is the use of ingame mechanics to obtain a result, other than that intended by the devs, for own gain. And buy that definition, as said before, Gate sniping, Jetcan mining, hell even putting a can at a gate with your corps info on it, is an exploit . Using a battleship to mine, or a dread / carrier, should be a bannable offence now? Poor Chribba Originally by: CCP's Definition # 12.1 What is an exploit? The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö Due to the ever-changing dynamics involved with maintaining a virtual, persistent world, it can sometimes be difficult or confusing to determine what might be considered an exploit. Though every effort is made to avoid glitches that enable exploits to be used, they are occasionally discovered. Players have the responsibility of understanding how the game works and keeping themselves informed about changes to the game in order to comprehend what is deemed as an exploit. Those who are charged with employing the use of exploits will be reprimanded, which may include temporary suspension or a permanent ban of the account. Professing ignorance that you didnÆt know you were using an exploit will not prevent the enforcement of this rule. # 12.2 How does CCP fix exploits? Exploits are investigated on a prioritized, case-by-case basis. As received, information pertaining to exploits is entered into a queue. Programmers then ascertain the level of urgency in addressing them and fix them accordingly. # 12.3 What are the punishments for using an exploit? We reserve the right to review cases involving exploits on an individual basis and take action as we deem necessary. For minor offenses, a formal warning may be issued. A second warning or a more serious offense may result in the suspension of the playersÆ account. Very serious violations or repeated offenses will lead to a permanent ban. We reserve the right in all cases to determine the seriousness of the offense. We also reserve the right to delete characters and/or items that were gained through the use of exploits. Note that any attempts at hacking the game or the game servers will be dealt with severely, up to û and including û legal action. # 12.14 How do I know whatÆs legal or illegal in the game? Using the game mechanics in any way to achieve an unintended game behavior is exploiting. Stay abreast of known issues and changes to the game. Employing the use of an unauthorized third party program is always illegal. Those who create, distribute, advocate or use unauthorized third party programs will be permanently banned from EVE. # 12.5 Do you consider it cheating if someone uses a known bug? Yes. The circumstances are irrelevant. All cases where a player manipulates the system or the game world, knowingly or otherwise, will be treated as exploiting and dealt with harshly. By the above I would say the rules are clear that its an exploit even if the Devs/GMs say different. The question now is: Who is right here? Ship lovers click here
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:53:00 - [125] Originally by: Sjoor Easy to avoid.. don't gang with unknown people or just make sure u are the gangleader. Invite the one that needs help and wait 15 minutes to clear all the previous aggro. Than u can do safely whatever u wanna do. Easy right.. don't ask for game mechanic change when u are too lazy to use the same game mechanics to be sure u can't get attacked like the op says. QFT I was about to say the same thing. IF a noob wants help,and you want to help, you initiate the gang, and warp to him in his mission. YOU have gang leadership, and YOU control who can and can't join. Akkarin Linkage Do not press this button <3 - Immy
lofty29 Gallente Tolarri Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:54:00 - [126] Originally by: Akkarin Pagan Originally by: Sjoor Easy to avoid.. don't gang with unknown people or just make sure u are the gangleader. Invite the one that needs help and wait 15 minutes to clear all the previous aggro. Than u can do safely whatever u wanna do. Easy right.. don't ask for game mechanic change when u are too lazy to use the same game mechanics to be sure u can't get attacked like the op says. QFT I was about to say the same thing. IF a noob wants help,and you want to help, you initiate the gang, and warp to him in his mission. YOU have gang leadership, and YOU control who can and can't join. Akkarin Too true. --------------------------- Originally by: inSpirAcy Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you.
Hori To Minmatar Rifter Corp	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:07:00 - [127] Edited by: Hori To on 04/09/2006 12:07:52 A good solution to people that want to help new players by ganging with them is to not use their t2/faction fitted rattlesnake, but rather an ordinary disposable ship. I'm wondering though, say I fall for loftys evil trick, can he pop my pod safely? this would be the lazy solution. As opposed to the one above.
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:11:00 - [128] Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/09/2006 12:11:55 I just wonder why ppl that are at war with eachother are allowed to gang up in the first place. Only use for that that I can see is for tactics like this.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:20:00 - [129] Originally by: Akkarin Pagan Originally by: Sjoor Easy to avoid.. don't gang with unknown people or just make sure u are the gangleader. Invite the one that needs help and wait 15 minutes to clear all the previous aggro. Than u can do safely whatever u wanna do. Easy right.. don't ask for game mechanic change when u are too lazy to use the same game mechanics to be sure u can't get attacked like the op says. QFT I was about to say the same thing. IF a noob wants help,and you want to help, you initiate the gang, and warp to him in his mission. YOU have gang leadership, and YOU control who can and can't join. Akkarin Indeed this is like beating on a dead horse..
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:25:00 - [130] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/09/2006 12:11:55 I just wonder why ppl that are at war with eachother are allowed to gang up in the first place. Only use for that that I can see is for tactics like this. Ask the dev that came up with this "brilliant" idea. Ship lovers click here
Rochel Hakiri Digital Horizons Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:27:00 - [131] Originally by: Pestillence Originally by: Rochel Hakiri if this happends to me, i would accept the gang invite. (knowing of this tactic) and when i saw them warping to me and starting to shoot I quickly leave the gang and watch them being concorked, grabbing their loot and started to smack in local.. never tried this, but it should be possible (?) Read the thread and revise your opinion? Aye you're right, so im not allowed to get shoot or dock, change systems, ah well then im gonna get lofty and co on my blocked list. First one evar! Your the man Loser erm Lofty i mean
Rochel Hakiri Digital Horizons Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:32:00 - [132] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/09/2006 12:11:55 I just wonder why ppl that are at war with eachother are allowed to gang up in the first place. Only use for that that I can see is for tactics like this. Ask the dev that came up with this "brilliant" idea. QFT
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:39:00 - [133] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Verus Potestas Extract from logs Yes, it does say that, but I have written confirmation from a GM that I am allowed to continue to use this method. I received it back in about april, after being petitioned for the first time. I was warned, and when I asked what the problem was with using it, the warning was retracted and I was allowed to use this method. Once CCP declares it an exploit, I will cease use. Its not very clear lofty but your ok was about doing it IF the warning was displayed or they had set it not to be shown. Now you are/have found a way to stop the warning from displaying no matter how the player has the warning display option configured? If thats the case you hiding behind "i checked 5 months ago" defense does not apply. The only way I can see that you got the ok was because the warning message is displayed unless the player has stopped it from appearing, now you seem to have ound a way to stop it from appearing even IF the player in question has not stopped it from appraering or would not ignore it, you are skating on VERY THIN ICE... SO the only question is did you include this variation in the question you asked the GMs 5 months ago? Because if you did not all the "I have GM clarfication" defense you are throwing out are nothing but bull****. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Feng Schui	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:44:00 - [134] aaah, good ole lofty29. the moron was trying to bait people to come out with ravens to kill a titan With martial valor, if one becomes like a revengeful ghost and shows great determination, though his head is cut off, he should not die.
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:53:00 - [135] Originally by: lofty29 Ok, I admit that I may have found a >widdle tiny bit< of an exploit. Yes, CCP can change it if they wish, and I will cease use of it if it is declared an exploit. I play eve for fun, not to get banned. I have GM approval that what I am doing, or part of it, is within the game mechanics, but I have applied a bit of intellect to make it nigh-on untraceable until you're being shot. Put it this way - there is about 10 seconds between you warping in on my safespot, and me / my corpmate begining to shoot. LEAVE-THE-GANG. As soon as you do, we will either not shoot, or be concordokkened. It's simple, quite a few people have done it. What I think CCP should do, however, is add a warning when another member joins a gang, saying he / she is at war. UNLESS they are within your corp / alliance or have +5 or higher standings to you, so that alliances do not get spammed. Thanks for laying the cards on the table. Good to know leaving the gang works. Originally by: Sjoor Easy to avoid.. don't gang with unknown people or just make sure u are the gangleader. Invite the one that needs help and wait 15 minutes to clear all the previous aggro. Also very good point. And last point, uh, I try to use the right tools for the job, and flying into a noob mission in a T2 battleship just must be wrong. Fly far. -- When I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally. Thukkers do
DDaisy VentureCorp CORE.	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:07:00 - [136] Naturally demanding to be the gang leader is the most logical avoidance of this scenario but that still doesn't change the fact that when new people who are invited to the gang and are at war with each other, there is no warning message to current members of the gang who are given the immediate option to leave said gang. Using this "over-sight" to achieve one's piracy/griefing goals is IMO an exploit. Life in 0.0 is so much simpler. Empire gives me a raging headache can't wait to get out of that godforsaken place.
DrAtomic Polytope Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:35:00 - [137] It's lame, pathetic, griefing, subscription killing, killing the community due to removing gang play, sadly within current game mechanics and thus not deemed an exploit by CCP. One thing it certainly isn't is piracy. A true pirate ransoms people outside of a gang. If you're doing this you're nothing more then a sad skilless noob griefing pirate wannabee who likes to ruin peoples gaming experience. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Emily Spankratchet Minmatar Pragmatics	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:36:00 - [138] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Wrong. You get the message I posted earlier. Quote: No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war. However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first. If you do the reading thing you'll see the warning. Reading 4tw. Ahem. Lofty's tactic is to have people already at war join the gang. The warning says "...does go to war..." Nobody is going to war during the gank. People are already at war. Reading 4tw, anyone? Admittedly it's a small semantic difference, but the warning should mention that if someone who is at war joins the gang at a later time you will be at risk and you will not be notified when they join.
DrAtomic Polytope Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:39:00 - [139] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Akkarin Pagan Originally by: Sjoor Easy to avoid.. don't gang with unknown people or just make sure u are the gangleader. Invite the one that needs help and wait 15 minutes to clear all the previous aggro. Than u can do safely whatever u wanna do. Easy right.. don't ask for game mechanic change when u are too lazy to use the same game mechanics to be sure u can't get attacked like the op says. QFT I was about to say the same thing. IF a noob wants help,and you want to help, you initiate the gang, and warp to him in his mission. YOU have gang leadership, and YOU control who can and can't join. Akkarin Too true. And what exactly stops me from doing the exact same thing to the noob? ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
lofty29 Gallente Tolarri Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:40:00 - [140] Originally by: Feng Schui aaah, good ole lofty29. the moron was trying to bait people to come out with ravens to kill a titan Uhm, refresh my memory please --------------------------- Originally by: inSpirAcy Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you.
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:49:00 - [141] ok to make this easy even for the DEE DEE DEE groups. use the "tactic' yourself, go out in masses and make the "tactic" a sore spot for the GM's as their Q is flooded with complaints that they just had an exploit used on them... Either make them take notice, so an official response is declared and signed, or they will just be content to be flooded with a huge Q over the 'tactic' FYI; The forums will be ignored, if 5 pages over the subject haven't made it clear to you all. Do the nasty dead like those that are already doing it, and make it aan issue they HAVE to notice. FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The HippoKing spots a new post
Diggles Darkreign Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:54:00 - [142] the morale of the story is, "dont help noobs....ever!"
lofty29 Gallente Tolarri Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:59:00 - [143] Oh, and hellspawn, I just read your post again. You say that the noob scrambled your friend. Thats not true. I did. You say that 3 other pilots warped in? Nope, just me, and I was sitting where he warped to. He smartbombed my alt and concord got him . Concord always leave the best loot. Anyhow, Id just like to clarify that THE NEWBIE DIDNT AGRESS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. --------------------------- Originally by: inSpirAcy Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you.
Selective Memory	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:02:00 - [144] If a 'noob' claims he needs help and invites someone who wants to help him into his gang, then waits until the warring friends he has are comming out of warp right on top of them to nvite them, the victim gets no warning. An unganged covert ops ship could make the warp possible, or simply make an appropiate bookmark beforehand. If a noob really does need help and a vetren (or whatever) decides to be the one to create the gang, the vetren and HIS warring friends can gank the noob. So you see, the gang system is slightly broken. I'm fine with how the mechanics of it work, but there needs to be a new pop up (with a skull and crossbones and text explaining） for when warring members join any gang you are in. Maybe even a 30 second "session change" type timer that gang members must wait before shooting eachother. This timer would not be damaging since not many people form gangs just so they can suddenly shoot one of the members... or some other simple yet effective method could be introduced so that there is proper warning. Not prevention, just warning. A lot of you guys said this "tactic" is ok because technically (if you already know it exists) there are ways you can avoid it. This does not mean it is OK. To be exposed to empire gankage of this scale a player should need to knowingly enter a dangerous situation, make a mistake which offends common sense, or fall for some sort of greedy too-good-to-be-true trick. A player joining the gang of a new guy who needs help with Worlds Collide does not fall under any of those catagories. The whole thing just smells wrong. A player who posted earlier summed it up very well: "Look, the reason it's an exploit is because the "a member of this gang is at war with blahblahblah" message only pops up if they're already in the gang when you join. The exploit is that you're evading the intended warning by bringing the warring player in AFTER the victim. The intent of the game mechanics is clear, a player is always given a warning if their gang members could be involved in concord-approved combat. The fact that you don't get one if the invites are sent in the wrong order is a loophole in the rules, and one that should be fixed. If the issue was just a player ignoring the warning, then it wouldn't be an exploit at all. Then it would just be Darwin at work again, and some lucky pirates. You saw the warning, you trusted the wrong people, learn from your mistakes. But this isn't the case, the victim never gets the warning message they're supposed to have.ô
lofty29 Gallente Tolarri Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:11:00 - [145] Originally by: Selective Memory If the issue was just a player ignoring the warning, then it wouldn't be an exploit at all. Then it would just be Darwin at work again, and some lucky pirates. You saw the warning, you trusted the wrong people, learn from your mistakes. But this isn't the case, the victim never gets the warning message they're supposed to have.ô There is a warning message in the regular gang invite. "No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war. However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first." Duh Read --------------------------- Originally by: inSpirAcy Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you.
Infinity Ziona Feet Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:21:00 - [146] Originally by: lofty29 Ok, I admit that I may have found a >widdle tiny bit< of an exploit. Yes, CCP can change it if they wish, and I will cease use of it if it is declared an exploit. I play eve for fun, not to get banned. You find it fun, as you have admitted above, to use an widdle tiny bit of an exploit to kill people who took the time out of their game play to try to help someone new to the game? What exactly do you find 'fun' about that Lofty? That a bunch of pre-pubes think your cool for being a *****? Technically since you have admitted here in this thread that you yourself consider this an exploit you should be banned or at least warned. Click Me
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:23:00 - [147] To solve this; If asked by a player to assist on a mission, ask him to invite you ONLY when you are immediately ready to go and help him. Accept the invite, and "Warp to" his location. Whilst in warp, leave the gang. You arrive where he is and can assist, but you don't share bounties. Equally, he doesn't have to share bounties with you. And no-one can attack you. If the guy genuinely wants your help, he won't push it. I've done this in my local system and no-one who genuinely wants help seems to mind. All you really lose is any benefits from any gang skills you may have. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:31:00 - [148] This why my mom tells me not to accept cookies (and gang invites) from strangers everytime I undock from AZN. - Gob [IXC] Admiral Goberius
Kharriga Caldari The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:32:00 - [149] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: lofty29 Ok, I admit that I may have found a >widdle tiny bit< of an exploit. Yes, CCP can change it if they wish, and I will cease use of it if it is declared an exploit. I play eve for fun, not to get banned. What exactly do you find 'fun' about that Lofty? That a bunch of pre-pubes think your cool for being a ****? He is 12 and feels all evil and cool while doing it? Gets his attention whoring on forums about it? Tbh i wouldnt be surprised if he initiated this whole thread in some way ( ie. its his alt/main opening, he paid someone off, its his friend etc ). However i dont pity the victims. Fly what you can afford to lose. Sht happens.
Turiya Flesharrower Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:33:00 - [150] Go lofty! On a vaguely unrelated note, I believe that a cool forum feature would be the following: If a thread contains the phrase "CCP should" then the player's forum access is revoked for a week after hitting the post button. -----

Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.