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Gang mechanics and ganking ppl (New tactic impossible to evade)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Istaklain	Posted - 2006.09.06 03:41:00 - [181] Exploit or not, its one hell of a lame tactic. Of course the only way to fix something like this is to abuse the heck out of it, forcing ccp to do something.
Helluin Caldari Crimson Wings Squadron	Posted - 2006.09.06 23:09:00 - [182] I'm one of the recent victims of Lofty's "tactic". It's a cheap as way to die, and it's pretty discouraging to be ganked because you wanted to help a newbie and watch weeks worth of hard work get crushed(after paying a ransom, too!) That said, coming to the forums to moan and cry after CCP already said this was a legit tactic is pretty useless. If you want him to stop, you have to make this tactic unprofitable for him. Hunt him down and beat him like a naughty puppy, force him to hole up in a station all night...whatever. Just don't come crying to the forums. You can hope CCP comes to their senses and fixes this, if you want, but I wouldn't count on it.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.09.06 23:17:00 - [183] "The only thing that bugs me about this is that new players will not get help from the more experienced. Thanks to the antics of lofty29, new players now are shunned when they ask for help. This is not exactly a good situation. " Agree the problem with this little loophole, is that left unchecked it just teaches people to be very unsocial and unhelpful, something that is not good for a game of this complexity.
BoinaAzul	Posted - 2006.09.06 23:22:00 - [184] When was EVE a friendly game?
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.09.06 23:23:00 - [185] Originally by: Hellspawn01 The lack of response from CCP says it all. hah, as if CCP staying silent has any import to this being an exploit or not...they have done the same before and only pronounced something as an exploit AFTER they fixed the game mechanic. I could claim that CCP's lack of response is because they are obviously busy changing the way the mechanic works and do not want the little lamer exploiters rushing to use it before it is gone...could be as true as your 'deedeedee' comment. FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The HippoKing spots a new post
Cmdr Baxter Caldari Skunk Works Corp. C O I N Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.06 23:29:00 - [186] Edited by: Cmdr Baxter on 06/09/2006 23:29:31 Thanks to the comments about the tactics that Lofty has been utilizing as of late, I'll just be yet another informed citizen of EVE, minding their business and trying to avoid becoming a victim of this tactic. My hat's off to everyone for keeping this thread up and going. Originally by: Helluin I'm one of the recent victims of Lofty's "tactic". It's a cheap as way to die, and it's pretty discouraging to be ganked because you wanted to help a newbie and watch weeks worth of hard work get crushed(after paying a ransom, too!) If Lofty is ganking people -after- they pay a ransom, it's going to start to affect pirates next. They'll be finding people unwilling to pay ransoms, and instead either (a) fleeing at the first sign of unknown ships, or (b), fighting the pirates, which can be costly to all parties involved. Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Major Death The only thing that bugs me about this is that new players will not get help from the more experienced. Thanks to the antics of lofty29, new players now are shunned when they ask for help. This is not exactly a good situation. Yep. Go lofty. Agreed. Newer players are going to have an ..... 'interesting' time if these tactics persist in high-security systems. But then again, who ever said space was a safe place? Commanding Officer S.W.V. Tiger
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.09.06 23:30:00 - [187] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "The only thing that bugs me about this is that new players will not get help from the more experienced. Thanks to the antics of lofty29, new players now are shunned when they ask for help. This is not exactly a good situation. " Agree the problem with this little loophole, is that left unchecked it just teaches people to be very unsocial and unhelpful, something that is not good for a game of this complexity. ] yep, great way to encourage teamwork is to allow mistrust and encourage gankage due to the exploit of a game mechanic! Oh yes, lets have them force us to use teamwork, force us to be dependant on others, and at the same time FORCE us to not trust anyone in the game because they could be using the FFFIng exploit to lure us into a gank.... TRUST NO ONE! KILL ALL NOOBS BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY TRYING TO GET YOU GANKED! NEVER HELP ANYONE BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY TRYING TO GET YOU GANKED! NEVER WORK AS A TEAM BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TRUST THEM! see where this leads...fix the damned game mechanic CCP, and declare the intentional misuse of the invite order as an exploit until it is fixed, or live with this mistrust and lack of team work it will bring (you want the noobs in 0.0 space, sorry we can't trust them...) FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The HippoKing spots a new post
Calynus Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.06 23:47:00 - [188] I would think I would be more pragmatic about it than CCP is being. What's better? Keeping a relatively small number of griefers subscriptions and the revenue they bring, or losing the accounts of some of the people that they are allowing to be the victims of the exploits used by these people? CCP should want to retain people and keep those people playing. I would imagine that the antics of lofty29 et al have encouraged more than a couple people to unsubscribe, costing CCP money. This is seen to be an exploit by the majority of the people posting here, but it's not being fixed. It gives the impression that CCP is in favor of exploits or can't program worth a damn or just plain doesn't give a crap. CCP's policy of non-interference in scams, etc, etc is fine, but allowing broken game mechanics and a poor UI implementation fo the Invite dialogue window to cost them subscriptions to keep a few griefers happy just isn't smart business.
DrAtomic Polytope Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.07 10:45:00 - [189] Edited by: DrAtomic on 07/09/2006 10:46:18 New gang options are in development atm; so good timing to request a feature request with this topic in mind. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.07 11:37:00 - [190] Come on folks, this is CCP land where crime pays, where punishment slipped out the back door and did a runner, cos it's all like coolio and yarry and piratey and stuff just like real life, screw crime and punishment, simply victimise the victims eh CCP ? I want to die quietly in my sleep just like my dear old grandma, and not screaming in terror like her passengers!!
Liklin	Posted - 2006.09.07 11:37:00 - [191] Edited by: Liklin on 07/09/2006 11:37:44 alty walty smalty main posty bollox
Gunsnroses Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.07 12:19:00 - [192] This most def 100% exploit, just like log on traps. For some reason CCP wont deal with ethier.
Dragon Lord	Posted - 2006.09.07 12:26:00 - [193] Edited by: Dragon Lord on 07/09/2006 12:27:22 not a fair tactic imo but like ccp say within the game mechanics so not an exploit, however 2 things u can do to stop this happening. 1. Make sure u know who ur ganging with 2. if u dont ask in local about the player u are about to gang with if hes done it before someone will say somthing. but in general dont gang with people u dont know period, i think lofty nearly poped one of my corp mates once stupid corp mate he got a rosting for being so stupid lol
Jane Vladmir Gallente Warmongers	Posted - 2006.09.07 12:41:00 - [194] Why didn't he leave the gang?
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.07 13:16:00 - [195] I think the moment your aggressed you cannot leave the gang to avoid the aggression, if you do it still continues for 15 minutes. Click Me
Krexus Amarr Reunited	Posted - 2006.09.07 14:12:00 - [196] I feel a yarr coming up --------- yes i kill topics They never got me Originally by: Red Knight Your forum-foo is strong
Celero Incendium Fist of the Goat	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:37:00 - [197] I've only read about half of the thread, but it seems like the simplest solution would be to tell the noob that YOU wil be the gang leader and YOU INVITE THE NOOB, don't let him invite you. That way you can control who is added to the gang. If the noob complains, tell him sorry that's the only way you'll join. Pretty freakin' simple to be quite honest. I really don't see how or why this would be an exploit, you're given a warning that something bad may and could happen when you join any gang. If you chose to ignore that, who's fault is that? --ci
Resin Kadir Lexx Corp	Posted - 2006.09.16 11:10:00 - [198] I'm trying my hardest to figure out how you consider this an exploit. The only part I'm foggy on is how the noob was able to warp scramble you with being Concordokened, unless this was in a .4 or lower system. Otherwise, joining gangs other than your corp/alliances while you are at war is ALWAYS risky. I too agree it is well within game mechanics. Just because the noob sponsoring the game is a jerk doesn't mean it's an exploit. It's simply a cheap tactic to get your prey. Would I use this to get an enemy? Yes! Would I feel like a total idiot and laugh it off if it happened to me? Yes! In a similiar situation, I had a pirate gang warp me to a POS of his corps. The only reason I let him warp me, and I knew it was some kind of trap, was because I scaned beyond the range I was warping and didn't see any other ships or control towers. Little did I know, control towers weren't on the overview filter by default. It wasn't an exploit though I think a control tower shouldn't fire on a gang member; it was just a gang mechanic I got caught in. I'm sure I had the right to blame CCP for taking control towers off the default filter, but I didn't. So, I say suck it up and leave something that works well enough for everyone else alone.
Resin Kadir Lexx Corp	Posted - 2006.09.16 11:21:00 - [199] Next thing you know, you guys are going to be saying "I picked up a small armor repairer from a can at a gate and this guy pwned me for no reason and concord just WATCHED! EXPLOIT!!!!!!" Read the rules and warnings people and shut up!
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.16 11:42:00 - [200] Originally by: Resin Kadir Read the rules and warnings people and shut up! I think you missed the point that was being made. The tactic being used prevents the "victim" from getting the "This gang is at war" warning. That is what people think is wrong with it. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Tommy Vercetti The Nexus Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.16 11:58:00 - [201] Originally by: Avon The tactic being used prevents the "victim" from getting the "This gang is at war" warning. That is what people think is wrong with it. The tactic does not prevent the "victim" from clicking "decline". Its that simple. Sure the tactic is low, but it can be avoided easily. It is possible to evade, dont click accept. And now its 7 pages of whinge, threats of leaving / mistrust and whatever hash anyone else has thrown in. Eve is a game of actions and consequences, stupid actions lead to big consequences, I dont know how else to put it. --------------------------------------------------- Tommy Vercetti A&E Director The Nexus Syndicate ---------------------------------------------------
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.16 12:13:00 - [202] Edited by: Avon on 16/09/2006 12:13:56 Originally by: Tommy Vercetti Originally by: Avon The tactic being used prevents the "victim" from getting the "This gang is at war" warning. That is what people think is wrong with it. The tactic does not prevent the "victim" from clicking "decline". Its that simple. Sure the tactic is low, but it can be avoided easily. It is possible to evade, dont click accept. And now its 7 pages of whinge, threats of leaving / mistrust and whatever hash anyone else has thrown in. Eve is a game of actions and consequences, stupid actions lead to big consequences, I dont know how else to put it. If the person joining the gang was not supposed to get a warning about that gang being involved in a war, CCP would not have gone to the effort to code that warning. Abusing game mechanics to deny the "victim" from seeing the intended message is the problem, nothing else. I have no problem with people being ganked because they ignored the message if they received it. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Terazuk Amarr Rogen's Heroes Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.16 12:19:00 - [203] Perhaps an opt out should be included in the gang mechanics if/when inimical parties join the gang for example a dialogue that says; 'A pilot has joined the gang which is currently at war with another of its members, do you wish to leave the gang? (YES) - (NO)' This would circumvent the method used to dupe said players from this 'exploit' All you need to do then is sit back and watch the fireworks as Concord Wtfpwn them all! "...Soon, all of us will have special names; names designed to cause the cathode ray tube to resonate." Videodrome
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.16 12:41:00 - [204] Disabling the mechanic to be in the same gang as your war target would solve this too. Ship lovers click here
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.16 13:20:00 - [205] Interestingly enough, lofty29 also has a habit of dishonouring 1v1s by ignoring the previously agreed (publicly on local) rules. The time I saw this, he had got someone to agree to a 1v1, by using the warring gang tactic, and both parties had agreed to a "no-ECM" rule. In public. Guess what lofty fitted? By the way, this was in Dodixie. I agree with all those who have said that one consequence of this bit of lameness is that genuine noobs who need a bit of help won't get it. Great for the long-term future of the game - not. Oh well, maybe a space MMORPG with less griefers will turn up sometime - maybe even one where griefers get kicked out forthwith. Unfortunately, I am not holding my breath. A bit of free advice, lofty - if you carry your attitude to previously made agreements, and to the law, over to RL, you are going to end up either in jail or in a rather small box, depending on who you tick off. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." ----------------------------------------------
lofty29 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.09.16 13:28:00 - [206] Originally by: vanBuskirk Interestingly enough, lofty29 also has a habit of dishonouring 1v1s by ignoring the previously agreed (publicly on local) rules. The time I saw this, he had got someone to agree to a 1v1, by using the warring gang tactic, and both parties had agreed to a "no-ECM" rule. In public. Guess what lofty fitted? ... A bit of free advice, lofty - if you carry your attitude to previously made agreements, and to the law, over to RL, you are going to end up either in jail or in a rather small box, depending on who you tick off. Firstly, yep, I dishonored the 1v1. Mainly because you decided to smack smack smack before even accepting to fight me. Secondly, Im a pirate, we break rules. And on the second part, I use the game as an outlet so I dont feel the need to do that IRL. I've never broken a major law and never intend to. I'm quite a trustworthy person actually, provided you dont ** me off Dont judge a book by its gank tactics. --------------------------- Originally by:** inSpirAcy Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you. I pwnz0r your sig, muahaha - Tirg Noes i got beat by a girl >.< - Xorus
Kassandra Tillman	Posted - 2006.09.16 13:34:00 - [207] while i would not use this tactic and have issues with those that would use it. I have to give lofty some credit, he is not hiding what his tactics are, he's even confirming ways to avoid it or escape him. best thing to do if your a vet that wants to help a newer player is to use a disposable ship and be careful. 1 question lofty, do u pod kill your victems or ransom there pods?
lofty29 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.09.16 13:40:00 - [208] Originally by: Kassandra Tillman while i would not use this tactic and have issues with those that would use it. I have to give lofty some credit, he is not hiding what his tactics are, he's even confirming ways to avoid it or escape him. best thing to do if your a vet that wants to help a newer player is to use a disposable ship and be careful. 1 question lofty, do u pod kill your victems or ransom there pods? Not usually, they've either left the gang by then, meaning i cant get an aggro on the pod, or I just cant be arsed. No point to it, tbh. --------------------------- Originally by: inSpirAcy Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you. I pwnz0r your sig, muahaha - Tirg Noes i got beat by a girl >.< - Xorus
Ixianus	Posted - 2006.09.16 14:25:00 - [209] Quote: I agree with this. The warning is there to tell people information that is necasarry that could not be gathered otherwise. Circumventing this warning does not seem to be what was intended. Then again who's dumb enough to join some random person's gang with a faction ship? This does have the negative side effect of making it much harder to trust a real noob who is having difficulties. This can make Eve very hard to get into for new players. New players are necasarry for the continuing survival of any online game. This is clearly an exploitive in nature, assuming its true. Ive ganged with new players on multiple occasions to help them run a mission or the like. Hearing about this ganking method would cause me to shy away from helping any new player. BTW, the people that respond to petitions are not gods, theyre just hired to try and solve problems theyve encountered before, game mechanics and a few other canned responces are pretty common occurances. This is clearly something that needs addressed as it hinders new players from interacting with older players. I met my first, and current corperation through a gang enviroment. I cant imagine why anyone would defend something like this, other than utter complacency and fanboy-ism. There are alot of things in Eve that need fixed or at least looked at, some of which are being addressed in Kali. I cant imagine the gang system was thought up as a way to gank hapless do-gooders.
Mr Popov Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.09.16 14:30:00 - [210] Originally by: Ixianus This is clearly an exploitive in nature, assuming its true. Ive ganged with new players on multiple occasions to help them run a mission or the like. Hearing about this ganking method would cause me to shy away from helping any new player. BTW, the people that respond to petitions are not gods, theyre just hired to try and solve problems theyve encountered before, game mechanics and a few other canned responces are pretty common occurances. This is clearly something that needs addressed as it hinders new players from interacting with older players. I met my first, and current corperation through a gang enviroment. I cant imagine why anyone would defend something like this, other than utter complacency and fanboy-ism. There are alot of things in Eve that need fixed or at least looked at, some of which are being addressed in Kali. I cant imagine the gang system was thought up as a way to gank hapless do-gooders. This is the best thing to come out of this thread. Everyone please get off your high horses and "reading gang warning 4tw" comments and understand the above.

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