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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:35:00 - [1] As most of you have noticed, we have had problems with Tranquility in the form of lag, nodes dropping and sometimes the whole cluster going down. To explain this we have a whole blog, everything isn't great, but things will improve and there is definately light at the end of the tunnel. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions

Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:38:00 - [2] Thanks for the info. good to see things are happening. Max --------------------
Witchking	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:41:00 - [3] Thanks for the information.
FFGR Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:43:00 - [4] Good thing you slated Kali release for Octomber, even though we can always wait a bit longer Good read in general _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:48:00 - [5] Thanks for the info, good read. -------- Sig removed, please keep your sig EVE related as per the forum rules, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus It was EVE related!!
PKlavins Caldari eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:52:00 - [6] w00tage good to see you guys are listening to us, and fixing up the lag etc...and making sure Kali comes onto a stable Tranquility instead of a 'wobbly' one... ONE FREE T3 SHIP TO MODS IN MY SIG!!! first -eris Woot right behind Eris \o/ - Xorus
robacz Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:53:00 - [7] Thanks for info and good luck. ___________ Buying/Selling: Implants, Cargo Expanders and more
Jonas Darkstar Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:56:00 - [8] Nice to see Some Official News :)
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.16 22:56:00 - [9] Don't worry, as long as Kali's out by november you won't need to wrry about PC gamer's ****up. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath For 50, you can have my goat:P- Tirg
Ater Angellus DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:00:00 - [10] He he we made it into a dev-blog. Good to hear that the issues are being addressed. We'll try not to crash the node too many more times.
ArchenTheGreat Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:11:00 - [11] "But as stated earlier, Dragon solved a lot of issues. We're seeing better performance on the servers and the client, a boatload of issues were fixed as we can see from our internal error log counters, but there is still some way to go." I am seeing it completely different. I have lower FPS (client lag is bigger), I have worse server lag (modules activate time went to 20-30s), I have lots of stability issues (client locks up during jumping when two clients are active) etc. I had no such issues before patch. I have no idea how you implement your error counters but maybe instead of this you should try to PLAY this game sometimes. I can get you on lvl4 mission in Tamo with me to show you how bad it is.

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:15:00 - [12] Originally by: ArchenTheGreat "But as stated earlier, Dragon solved a lot of issues. We're seeing better performance on the servers and the client, a boatload of issues were fixed as we can see from our internal error log counters, but there is still some way to go." I am seeing it completely different. I have lower FPS (client lag is bigger), I have worse server lag (modules activate time went to 20-30s), I have lots of stability issues (client locks up during jumping when two clients are active) etc. I had no such issues before patch. I have no idea how you implement your error counters but maybe instead of this you should try to PLAY this game sometimes. I can get you on lvl4 mission in Tamo with me to show you how bad it is. I'm sorry, but you are taking that out of context. The full blog explains that while dragon improved things, it also messed a bit with other things, which is why you don't see an improvement. Once we have those issues sorted out, you will notice the improvements. But this is just the really short version, you need to take in the whole blog. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions

Erotic Irony Sturm und Drang	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:29:00 - [13] In light of the (unsurprising) Kali delay, can OMGRAWR and devs coordinate for a dev-chat? Avon: For the love of all the is holy, do as the man says CCP.
Damon Ra	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:39:00 - [14] That has to be the most sincere and informative Dev blog we've had in quite a while. It is good to see Kali being delayed so that stability on TQ can be brought up to par.
The Economist	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:45:00 - [15] Cheers CCP, this is exactly what we like to see, real details on what's happening and what you're doing to try and sort it out; rather than "hi, i'm drunk, contracts will be coolÖ". Much Appreciated
Sakura Nihil Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:45:00 - [16] Thank you for finally putting out some info to us. We understand you're busy fixing things, but its nice to be told what's going on with our game albeit a tad later than expected . That, and the fact that you're focused on getting TQ stable pre-Kali. That's a good sign. Tharsis needs some !
Resolve	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Wrangler Once we have those issues sorted out, you will notice the improvements. But this is just the really short version, you need to take in the whole blog. Good PR job there. Let's just say I'll believe it when I see it. Since I've started nearly 3 years ago, each patch seems to be making lag worse and not better. I'm encouraged by the blog and info from CCP however, it's nothing new. Server performance has always been an issue and with the constant influx of players, I see CCP fixing (or putting in stop-gap measures like drone reduction, BM copying limits and queues) the current problem but not addressing the continuing growth that EVE has been experiencing. Yes, the 'fixes' may solve or at least reduce the current problems but it will all happen again when we reach 40/50k PCU, which will happen sooner rather than later. Constantly 'putting out fires' indicates a deeper problem. Yes, fix the current bugs but I'd also like to see a plan for the future. It's not an easy task by far, understood. Personally I think it's time to redirect resources to fix the current problems and put a serious effort into stopping this from happening in the future. It goes without saying that you're already on this but I also feel that more could be done in this area. Thanks again for the blog and info, very nice read and it gives me a nice fuzzy feeling inside to know that while we may not hear from you as often as some may like, you're working on it and acknowledge the issues that many of us are facing.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:55:00 - [18] I just ask for CCP to release the new ships for extensive testing (not at the same time as singularity is patched to Kali, mind you), and also for Tux to give out some more info on the new ships soon. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Laocoon Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.16 23:59:00 - [19] hope those hotfixes work - Lao Veto. Corp
Luric Vizjier The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.17 00:10:00 - [20] I don't know what people are talking about, but I rarely suffer from lag. Granted, when I do, it is horrible. But it almost never happens. -----------------------------------------------
Barwinius Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.17 00:11:00 - [21] Thank you for the update.
Onin Ra Trail of Tears	Posted - 2006.09.17 00:17:00 - [22] so.. what esle is new? --- First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
nightjackel BEAAC	Posted - 2006.09.17 00:26:00 - [23] Playing eve for the past 3+ years all I can say is , Yes there have been problems, yes it bugs you if your doing something at the time something bad happens. But with small problems that we as players encounter I have to say you at CCP are the best. This is not about sucking up but instead of saying thank you for all your hard work. Thanks for all the good and bad times in EVE. It says something of your hard work when you have people still playing a game since retail. These minor problems will get fixed just as they always do. NJ
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.17 00:33:00 - [24] Thx for your honesty and efforts. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.17 00:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Resolve Since I've started nearly 3 years ago, each patch seems to be making lag worse and not better. aye - but more features == more code == more lag... imagine if 'optimized' code was scaled back to castor complexity (simpler flagging, hitting, etc ruls) - it would prolly scream lol! again though - these are prolly the type of blogs we will need to see for next short bit (hopefully) till thing are back on track. with the exception of course that Tux really does need to release the tier 3 BS and teir 2 BC for balancing ASAP... we really need to make sure that they hit TQ right!! __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.17 00:50:00 - [26] Thanks for the honesty and info. Now get ready for even more *****ing about what you said from all the whiners...
acco Gallente X-Factor Industries	Posted - 2006.09.17 00:58:00 - [27] Woha, i can slightly imagine how it feels like - I'm also a sw developer. We'll be there nevertheless. if the day was not your friend, then it was your teacher.
Carabao Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.09.17 01:13:00 - [28] mmm now an excuse for lag srry too late > i helped reduce it and cancel subscription and hope 14999 others do too so and give other accounts the chance they can play lag free ... think as you like i'm saving it up for a real birthday present for my son hell who knows maybe in a few years later if eve will be online or offline > it's up to tha kid ...
Resolve	Posted - 2006.09.17 01:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Weirda Originally by: Resolve Since I've started nearly 3 years ago, each patch seems to be making lag worse and not better. aye - but more features == more code == more lag... imagine if 'optimized' code was scaled back to castor complexity (simpler flagging, hitting, etc ruls) - it would prolly scream lol! again though - these are prolly the type of blogs we will need to see for next short bit (hopefully) till thing are back on track. with the exception of course that Tux really does need to release the tier 3 BS and teir 2 BC for balancing ASAP... we really need to make sure that they hit TQ right!! I'm completely not saying that improvements have not been made. I recognize the effort CCP has put into developing the game. With Castor code and the current user base, the server would probably just puke and die. Many improvements have been made for sure, I wouldn't want to go back to Castor code at all. Having said that, with all the new features and whatnot overall server performance has been decreasing. More people are experiencing more lag/disconnects than I've seen in the past (I've seen a queue or two recently as well). If the servers can't handle the new content/code, don't deploy it. I do realize that they can't test for everything, especially with 30k PCU but I can see a more deliberate coding/patching process where the servers will at least perform as well as the currently running codebase. No, I don't expect miracles. It's part of the job to find and fix these problems. I do however suggest that more can be done to alleviate these problems (in testing or otherwise) before it gets released to the masses. IMHO, performance should stand Head and Shoulders above all other priorities, especially when you consider new players. If your 'n00b' starting system is at or near say a 'Jita', your experience will be terrible. Horrible lag and not too much impetus to continue playing if the rest of the game is like that. Older players know that avoiding high-traffic systems significanly reduce the lag, but the people we WANT to join will just be disheartened and probably quit. There are a lot of problems and solutions, dealing with them is a whole other can of worms. Easy, No. Time consuming, Yes. It's CCPs job to balance the two and IMHO, it's time CCP sucks it up and fixes the inherent problems, not just band-aid the symptoms.
Stockarian eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.17 01:31:00 - [30] Thanks for the blog. I would rather see all of Tranquility's issues fixed before any new "improvements" are put in her. I'm glad you guys come out with new material, but please fix the lag first. Please. Athelas Loraiel > "This isn't a fleet, we're only the appetizer." Cheers, Stock
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.09.17 01:53:00 - [31] If I'm understanding the situation correctly, we've basically just lost some long-term bottlenecks and gained some (hopefully) short-term ones. This means real-world performance is about the same right now, but if those new bottlenecks can be removed quickly (no obvious reason why they shouldn't) the absence of the other bottlenecks removed in Dragon should allow things to pick up a bit. Also, whatever was done to the D7 node after the emergency reset or whatever it was - Sharkbait mentioned "solo8" - it really worked. If anyone's doubting that Dragon can be a smooth experience, you should've been in D7-ZAC after that last reset. Everything was running smooth as silk, zero lag, zero module activation delay... if that quality of experience can be delivered to the entire cluster, I imagine most people would be very happy.
Shao Lee	Posted - 2006.09.17 02:01:00 - [32] I realize you are inundated with petitions but I have had one sitting with no reply other than it was forwarded to a senior GM to investigate which was on 8/31/06. I still don't have any response. With all the problems am I going to have to resubmit it? As far as Eve and CCP go with some exceptions... I played Everquest 2 before this and what killed that for me was the wait going from zone to zone. Which I am happy to say does not exist in Eve. Haven't experienced any more quirks or problems then I did in any other online game I played. So keep up the good work and hopefully resolve my issue soon.
Aliena Vesparis Gallente Krizalid	Posted - 2006.09.17 02:04:00 - [33] Well, I'm still a noob here, but I think its worth a delurk, in the hopes that SOME things can get clarified. 1) The major hauverhaul of code introduced by the Dragon patch has caused side effects. THOSE are causing the lag, not the Dragon Code. 2) Patches ARE tested thoroughly, but nothing - absolutely nothing - can replicates TQ for that purpose. Hence the nasty surprises. 3) As far as programming goes, more people on a task does NOT yield higher efficiency/faster results. 4) CCP does work on fixing bugs ASAP, but we're talking about some 2 millions line of codes of stackless Python, C, and some other thing we probably don't want to hear about. How could it not take some time ? This is for the technical side. If more comes to my mind (its quite late on my side of the world atm, my mind is a bit laggy itself - pardon the pun) I'll add it later. Before someone asks, what you can read above has been gathered from what devs said. Feel free to response in any way, but contents have highest value than pointless flame.
Resolve	Posted - 2006.09.17 02:25:00 - [34] Edited by: Resolve on 17/09/2006 02:27:42 Originally by: Aliena Vesparis Well, I'm still a noob here, but I think its worth a delurk, in the hopes that SOME things can get clarified. 1) The major hauverhaul of code introduced by the Dragon patch has caused side effects. THOSE are causing the lag, not the Dragon Code. Do you realize you're contradicting yourself? The 'dragon' code which was introduced is exactly the problem. They recoded things and came up with 'dragon', and since then problems are abundant, that is the problem. 'Dragon' didn't help much as far as a user is concerned, in fact it has worsened it. On all other points I agree completely. You can't test for every scenario. More CCP staff does not necessairly = better and it WILL take time to fix things. I suggest that the problems are inherent. As more patches and fixes come out (not to mention PCU), performance has decreased overall. Fixing the root cause is much better (especially in the long run) than patching the symptoms. Taking the reigns, facing the problem and coding for the future is what is needed, not necessairly what has been done. CCP needs to take a step back, evaluate what the core problems are (not symptoms) and even if it takes 6 months, when they're done they'll have a much more stable, scalable base that they can work with. Then they can stop fixing emergencies and focus on all the stuff players like - less bugs, better performance and more server reliability. Not to mention the content team which is separate from the server team. After the evaluation amd re-coding, everyone will (hopefully) have better tools to implement Cool ThingsÖ that we as players and customers love to see.
Red Ochre	Posted - 2006.09.17 02:38:00 - [35] nice info, thanks. .....and to ALL the EMO kids laying out the brand of trash that usually follows a game failure and the knee jerk reactions that inevitably follow EVERY single time without fail........ ...........byte my shiny metal @$$
Vanlade Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.09.17 02:41:00 - [36] Most excellent informative blog. Ignore the clueless flames, keep on doing a great job. - Vanlade
Gragnor Order of the Arrow	Posted - 2006.09.17 02:50:00 - [37] Thank you for the blog. I was in 9uy last night and the node collapsed. It was immensely frustrating. Please fix it as it makes Eve very unenjoyable. Please keep updating the Blog EVERY fortnight on your progress in resolving these issues.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.17 03:35:00 - [38] To address some of the things Resolve said: The big problem in Eve's history is that every time there's a major upgrade, either in hardware or code, the playerbase seems to skyrocket. Thus there's very little time to see how the new stuff is working before the system is pushed to its limits. Thus we're continually dogged by Eve's success. The devs just haven't had the time to optimize the game under a consistent load. We're constantly pushing the envelope on what the game can do, so there's no time to make it work well under one set of criteria before those criteria are thrown out the door and new ones have to be obtained. It would be nice if Eve could stagnate for a bit so that the devs can have the time and breathing room to get the job done right. This is the same problem with fleet battles. 100v100 may have almost worked at one time, but then there's an upgrade and everybody wants to do 300v300. They're like: "It's better, so let's push it to the max," instead of just having fun with what is reasonable. Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
Firebyrd Gallente Crooked River Productions	Posted - 2006.09.17 04:05:00 - [39] Every game has growing pains, even when they have been around for 3 yrs.... And i as many dont expect everything to run perfectly. as one who has been here for almost 3 yrs, have seen more improvement every patch over the one prior... And my experience with games both online and off is, sometimes the game doesnt load or work correctly every once in awhile, small glitches here and there, can make things look huge, and unplayable, now knowing that they reworked some major sections of the code with the Dragon release, how many actually removed the game, and did a fresh install of the entire game.. i did, and have had 0 problems... not saying thats it, but here is an example of a program not loading properly... Eve lost a cluster or Node about a week a go(temp shut down, booted everyone in Domain region kicked off server), start up screen comes up(where u enter account name, and P/W), the game loads badly, from missing stuff, to picture totally screwed up, and its always done this for 3 yrs, so when eve crashes, or kicks me off the server i do a total restart of the eve client, i dont bother trying to do an auto relog in... i also know not all lag comes from the CCP server sight, i see all the foreign routers it has to go thru to get to my PC.. But in all this i remember my 2+ years of playing another Game called EnB that was sharded, and when the shard hit 15-20% of server load, it was aweful, real awefull, imaging it taking 30+ min to warp from 1 gate to the other in Jita, and watching ur ship cover the same area 10 times, or aproach the gate 10 times before the lag caught up, and you could jump to new system.... We know there is lag sometime bad sometimes just minor spikes, but one thing that no MMO will ever be able to do is get rid of it totally, cause of the outside elements, (remember the chaos theory from jurassic Park movie, or the infamous Murphy's Law)... So for now we adapt to the problems and work around it till it can be fixed, Node drops and crashes r serious software, or hardware instabilities... but i think should above all remember they r trying to run a Business and Game on 3 yr old code(outdated for sure), and update that code while still letting us play it... Only other alternative for them to do as i see it, is take the entire game offline for 6+ months and do a total rebuild of this game, with a total rebuild of the code, not something i want, and niether do any of you other players, and neither do the Devs... So until things work themselves out(they may never find this or that bug) we Adapt to the state of the game and find work arounds, its what we have done for 3 yrs... remember this is the only game of this kind, no other game offers the amount of different play styles or open ended styles then Eve and CCP... and before u say anything about Paying for a work in progress, remember u pay for a doctor to practice on you, u pay a Lawyer to practice... and they cant get things right half the time either... i look forward to the future of Eve, and glad the game is better then it was 6,12, 24, 36 months ago ----------------------------------------------- In the End , there can be only 1 Learn from yesterday, that u may be stronger tomorrow
Thaylon Sen The Rat Pack	Posted - 2006.09.17 04:11:00 - [40] Thankyou Oveur
Diatom	Posted - 2006.09.17 04:30:00 - [41] I have read and re-read the blog and I don't see anything that is or will address the lag that is making the game basically unplayable. A Memory Leak on the server side is mentioned but not the Memory Leak that in the ExeFile.exe that starts out at an acceptable 168k and grows to over 500k in about 45 minutes of game play. Then Eve just does a CD an I have to reboot to get back the memory and relog in. I hope these two problems are going to be corrected. "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there"
Aliena Vesparis Gallente Krizalid	Posted - 2006.09.17 04:40:00 - [42] Resolve : I gathered from the devblogs that upgrades brought by the 'dragon' code put the spotlights on less tidier zone of the code, and it appears those are the current cause of problems. It's just that by starting cleaning the cruft, they found more under it... Odd behaviors and latent bugs not visible before, things like that, that keep TQ off its balance for now. You know, as I write this I realize it means that I basically agree with you on that point. So let's leave it at that :) Concerning your second point though, it's probably not a viable option for CCP. TQ must be up and running as close as possible from a 24/7 scheme for CCP to stay in business. Whatever people say, downing the server for, say, a week for debugging purpose would hurt more commercially than the current situation. And since CCP is doing something nobody has done before, it's probably difficult not to react to thing as they come - after all, they don't fully know what to expect... That's what they get for starting this crazy project : endless problems no one have faced before, and lots of people blaming 'em for those! Actually, besides the obvious issues plaguing TQ now, I'd wager that the part of Eve who needs the most attention is its client, suspected of generally poor performance for a loooong time already . Most players could do without memory leaking, at the very least (ate my whole gig of ram yesterday - it wasn't pretty). And we all know a good deal of the perceived lag is client side - Don't worry, it still means you can blame CCP for it! Anyway, I'm rambling more and more randomly, I think I really need some sleep... Keep the constructive comments up, that's what everyone needs the most right now!
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.17 04:52:00 - [43] Good Blog! Although I don't have any lag (even in Jita) I hope you guys find and fix the problem soon so that all the whiners STFU! Keep up the good work CCP!
Mordoc Caldari ThE CoVeN ParTnerShiP	Posted - 2006.09.17 05:25:00 - [44] Would just like to say Thank You for the blog and keep at it CCP, this is just what we needed. Incoming fire always has the right of way.
Edu Journeyman Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.17 06:09:00 - [45] I've being playing EVE 2-5 hours/day, 7 days/week for the last 9 months. Some say I'm addicted and I'm forced to agree. About the improvement of the performance, as I've played in the day Dragon was deployed, the day after, the week after, etc, I must declare that is TRUE. For the first time I've experienced playing EVE smothly, with no problems related to performance, I was very happy... But, after the patch to correct some of the bugs of Dragon was deployed, last week, I'm with the worst performance in all these 9 months. Dragon really worked in the performance improvement, but the path to correct the bugs in it, somewhat FUBARed what Dragon did. Lets hope we can have TQ stable and with all these issues solved. There are some client issues that the patch (to correct Dragon bugs) have initiated, fixing only the server code will not help too much (this IMHO, I'm not an expert in programing - some Assembler, Basic, VB a lot of years ago) Be your journeys long and prosperous. Treat the others as you like to be treated. Rude and fool are enemies.
Edu Journeyman Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.17 06:46:00 - [46] Originally by: Resolve Do you realize you're contradicting yourself? The 'dragon' code which was introduced is exactly the problem. They recoded things and came up with 'dragon', and since then problems are abundant, that is the problem. 'Dragon' didn't help much as far as a user is concerned, in fact it has worsened it. I'm forced to disagree with you. You need to know that we had 2 (two) patches in the last 20 days: 1- Dragon code - deployed and brought great improvement in the performance, but with some serious bugs (BPC/BPO in escrow, overview settings, etc) 2- Patch to fix Dragon bugs - deployed last week, corrected some of the bugs in Dragon, but FUBARed the performance and stability of the game, both server side and client side. Be your journeys long and prosperous. Treat the others as you like to be treated. Rude and fool are enemies.
DemonStar Supernova	Posted - 2006.09.17 07:08:00 - [47] "Mmmkay, flip off the Jita node. that should keep em distracted while we uh, 'fix it'. Now leave me alone, the beers getting warm." Eve is just too damn big not to have issues, we all understand. Do whatever you need to, but remember our patience once the entire market is scrambeling to find tier 3 bs's and theres no supply Thanks for the update, would love to hear more as it comes.
Barbicane The Gun Club	Posted - 2006.09.17 07:32:00 - [48] Originally by: Resolve Personally I think it's time to redirect resources to fix the current problems and put a serious effort into stopping this from happening in the future. It goes without saying that you're already on this but I also feel that more could be done in this area. I think they already did that - the Dragon rewrite. If you are SW engineer (which you come across as) you know that a major rewrite will solve some fundamental problems in the previous codebase but will also inevitably introduce a load of new bugs. It's those new bugs CCP is fixing now. I'm sure CCP knew there'd be new bugs with Dragon but I do think they underestimated the severity of them and it seems they just now realized they need to put some real focus on them. Better late than never. I just hope they learn something from this.
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.17 07:46:00 - [49] You forgot the other 3 node death on friday evening, and the 6h we spent watching the log in screen, not beeing able to log into a game while some of us were sitting in front of a deathstar And why do nodes die when POSes are at structure, and why they come back with 25% shield? From Dusk till Dawn
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.17 08:24:00 - [50] Quote: Thank you all for your patience and sticking with us through thick and thin, we will make it up to you in the near future. Thanks for the update - we really needed an official statement confirming our anguish..... but, ooooh, I wonder how they'll make it up to us? Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Mynas Atoch Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.17 08:35:00 - [51] This problem is wrecking the ongoing war in Providence between U'K+ISS+friends and the Establishment+Finite Horizon+Coallition of Carebear Killers+Ethereal Dawn+Veto+Muffins of Mayhem+friends. Lots of ship losses on both sides, a few POS down on both sides. But the real problem is in the serious battles at POS. So far the defenders have killed two capital ships and got two others into structure when on both occasions the node crashed. Instead of seriously attritting the attackers capital ships, server instability has resulted in battles ending with crashes, and the capital ship losses being reimbursed. Both sides are having a great time, so its not affecting our will to fight, but it is very dissatisfying when every time you are able to commit enough force to gank a capital ship in a set piece battle at a POS, it get handed back or escapes in structure as everyone lands back at their windows desktop. Mynas Atoch
ArchenTheGreat Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.09.17 08:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Wrangler I'm sorry, but you are taking that out of context. The full blog explains that while dragon improved things, it also messed a bit with other things, which is why you don't see an improvement. Once we have those issues sorted out, you will notice the improvements. But this is just the really short version, you need to take in the whole blog. Well, you can't blame me for this. I play (and pay for it) a game when error counters doesn't matter. What matters is lag, crashes and bugs. And unfortunately what I see at my (your client) end is patch which is horrible implemented. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your work, I love EVE and I wish you good luck with spanking bugs and all bad stuff. Just spare me the talk about how good things look from developer point of view. For me it's enough when you say: we know about lag/bugs/crashes and we are working hard to repair our badly written code.
Fantome Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.09.17 08:39:00 - [53] Edited by: Fantome on 17/09/2006 08:43:10 It was a weird view to see all stuff around POS without any force field after D7- node crash... (without speacking about how frustating were both side involved in fleet/POS battle before node's crash, each side thinking, obviously, he could win the fight ) We have got 5 node's crash in 2 days in D7- Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.09.17 08:48:00 - [54] Thank you for the nice blog in the middle of the weekend. Could you have your bughunters check if the logging procedure releases the used file handles for further use by the OS? I found that problem in a DB-management system forcing a reboot of their server every three days. Yes, logging was always the first process to go down there too. The memleak should not happen with stackless python, but some people can produce those if you only hand them a piece of paper and a pencil. You say that some of the 'new' problems are caused by Dragon code. Some are probably very old and resurrected bugs. At least you sold us Dragon as a network core redo. Loadbalancing is fancy stuff and very close to magic when you compare it to rocket science. --==*-- No Thread with this ID This thread does not exist. Go back One page \| Go back to forums
Befounder 202INC	Posted - 2006.09.17 08:55:00 - [55] thanks for the blog. i really want to ask for a timeline for the fixes but i know that's impossible, so good luck :) oh crap, i am out of reasons to whine... uhmm oh yes! why is there no dragon on the eve splash screen? isnt this the dragon code? i want a huge dragon picture on my eve splash screen! there is no worse death than the end of hope
Miss Winter	Posted - 2006.09.17 09:17:00 - [56] Well, that's solved my number 1 complaint with CCP at the moment, that they're not providing information about what's happening. Nice to see a little of the old CCP back when they'd have the guts to release information that could potentially harm their business. Anyhow, thanks CCP!
BigWhale Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.17 09:23:00 - [57] Originally by: Diatom A Memory Leak on the server side is mentioned but not the Memory Leak that in the ExeFile.exe that starts out at an acceptable 168k and grows to over 500k in about 45 minutes of game play. Of course you were talking about Mega Bytes not kilo Bytes, right? Because with 1.5GB of memory, I wouldn't worry too much about 500k ;) More on the subject, memory leaks on servers are most likely much bigger issues than memory leaking on client. When server node goes down it can take down hundred players with it. When a client goes down, well it's just you. ;) Patience is a virtue. I think CCP is doing a nice job.
Decairn Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.17 09:36:00 - [58] There are 3rd party tools to find memory leaks. Are those used at all or is the language causing the leaks not supported? --Decairn
Virida Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.09.17 09:43:00 - [59] The bubble has been gone before, actually. In the old war Imperium versus bob, the bubble vanished too, and, bob slaughtered imperium. Sometime,large battles is decided with crashes, bugs, and who gets reimbursed, or who crashes most.
Komen Gallente Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.17 09:55:00 - [60] Thank you Oveur for the informative blog. I had faith that the current problems were being addressed, and I am more than happy to see Kali delayed until Tranquility is stable and improved. Though if you could somehow do a mini-patch with the new battleships, I wouldn't mind that... :) A guy can hope, right? ___________________________________ Wielder of the Trout of Doom(tm)! ___________________________________
Womble God Gallente Compression Space Transport	Posted - 2006.09.17 10:11:00 - [61] Ive never played an online game before coming to EVE so for me all of this is still new. Ive been guilty of moaning from time to time about crashes and delays in petitions etc Then a good friend of mine took the time to explain in some detail the amount of work that CCP has put into developing EVE. It boggles the mind, honestly, the amount of work and effort these guys and girls have put into this game is astounding. I take my hat off to them all, despite the problems, they are doing an amazing job. Im also glad to see you have no problems further delaying the Kali patches in order to get Tranquility running at its best. Keep up the good work CCP, I hope to be here for years Will swap cAKe for sig
Zakalwe Puppets on Steroids iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.17 10:15:00 - [62] Thank you for the info. Oveur, Kali should be delayed the time you, devs, need to fix things. It's gonna take 6/8/12 months ? I dont care. It's better than get another extension and playing it in theses conditions. I think the majority of people of the game is thinking at the moment. Good luck guys. Hmmm...
Estelle Matsuko Caldari The Beiatch Corp Inc	Posted - 2006.09.17 10:27:00 - [63] Edited by: Estelle Matsuko on 17/09/2006 10:28:09 Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: ArchenTheGreat "But as stated earlier, Dragon solved a lot of issues. We're seeing better performance on the servers and the client, a boatload of issues were fixed as we can see from our internal error log counters, but there is still some way to go." I am seeing it completely different. I have lower FPS (client lag is bigger), I have worse server lag (modules activate time went to 20-30s), I have lots of stability issues (client locks up during jumping when two clients are active) etc. I had no such issues before patch. I have no idea how you implement your error counters but maybe instead of this you should try to PLAY this game sometimes. I can get you on lvl4 mission in Tamo with me to show you how bad it is. I'm sorry, but you are taking that out of context. The full blog explains that while dragon improved things, it also messed a bit with other things, which is why you don't see an improvement. Once we have those issues sorted out, you will notice the improvements. But this is just the really short version, you need to take in the whole blog. So. Gameplay wise, Dragon didnt improve EVE gameplay. That¦s what you seem to be saying there. That¦s certainly backed up by the continuous node crashes, lack of missions etc. This "Light at the end of the tunnel" I hear mentioned all the time? When exactly are we likely to "see" it? Lessy bloody expansions and more fixing/repairing of what we already have please.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.17 10:29:00 - [64] Fixing TQ while delaying Kali is good, when Kali comes in we'll have a healthy TQ
Sgt JoNeZ	Posted - 2006.09.17 10:30:00 - [65] Hi I am really happy that we finally got some information about the situation :) But to me it seems like it has improved a bit already. :)
VeNT Minmatar Freelancer Union Unaffiliated	Posted - 2006.09.17 10:36:00 - [66] how can we help? -------------------- Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet!
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.17 10:40:00 - [67] Originally by: Kunming Fixing TQ while delaying Kali is good, when Kali comes in we'll have a healthy TQ thats a good one From Dusk till Dawn
Tachy	Posted - 2006.09.17 11:09:00 - [68] Originally by: Zakalwe Thank you for the info. Oveur, Kali should be delayed the time you, devs, need to fix things. It's gonna take 6/8/12 months ? I dont care. It's better than get another extension and playing it in theses conditions. I think the majority of people of the game is thinking at the moment. Good luck guys. Oveur is the one pulling the levers. He decides if it is time for Kali (part 7) or not. Delayed in the past meant about one week to three months, often with partial implementations or patches. --==*-- No Thread with this ID This thread does not exist. Go back One page \| Go back to forums
Bratwurst0r Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.17 11:14:00 - [69] Originally by: Kunming Fixing TQ while delaying Kali is good, when Kali comes in we'll have a healthy TQ yea...and once its healthy, we cant play it, because then the new patch gets deployed and its all messed up again. I would love it to have 6 months of smoth gameplay for once...:( Originally by: Aquila Lightwielder I'm sorry CCP you are #200 in queue to use my credit card, please wait
Isyel Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.17 11:15:00 - [70] Edited by: Isyel on 17/09/2006 11:15:59 Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Kunming Fixing TQ while delaying Kali is good, when Kali comes in we'll have a healthy TQ thats a good one The community lately seems to have taken a plunge into the WoW depths. Some people really can't stop being asses no matter what. Oh and good luck with the fixing. I see what they meant with the "improvements" part. My module activation and movement lag is close to nothing even in very big fights. It's the fps and node crashes that ruin gameplay. P.S. Fix the UI while you're at it... halved fps with UI on is not good.
Zhaine B e l l u m	Posted - 2006.09.17 11:23:00 - [71] Nice blog. Cheers guys - - - - - - - - - - Quote: I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
Zaldo Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.09.17 11:28:00 - [72] Never doubted that your working hard on fixing all these problems,this is great info for us players thx Mining all day ^^
Maximillian Power	Posted - 2006.09.17 11:30:00 - [73] yup - glad to hear it is being worked on. I hope the debugging goes well. A simple informative post is all most of us needed to be sure that we were not throwing away our subscription fees. Thanks for the feedback and take care.
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.17 12:00:00 - [74] Good to see you guys are on the case. Now the only thing I am wondering is how can the two systems (China and World) be so diffrent... Would it not be wise to try and push to having the same codebase? Just wondering of course. Though I de recall a certain software developer ehm whats their name again, Microsoft or something doing the same with their products due to porting issues they had during development. They claimed it would cut cost and save time in development of much needed new things and improvments. Ah, never mind they must be crazy. They probably stoped existing by now. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.17 12:00:00 - [75] Nice blog. :) So a node can only hold the solarsystems from the same constellation? I thought a node could handle solarsystems from several different constellations... Reply to this and ill spread the word in the forums, when we talk about load balancing. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Audrea Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.09.17 12:13:00 - [76] Thanks for keeping us update, though I still think EVE needs more devs working on fixes, than new stuff :) Other than that, there is one thing I would like to get clarified: Originally by: Oveur We're also seeing an issue with ships within gangs being able to lock down a single solar system. Does that mean you want to change the way alliances currently lock down solar systems in preparation for dread assaults? I just want to know, as such change (meaning allowing fleet to jump in and not suicide by doing that) would significantly change the tactics of POS warfare. ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.
Caztra Tor	Posted - 2006.09.17 12:29:00 - [77] /Saaaaaalute Now that is what I am talking about. This is exactly why I will still be here when those w/ the negative whiney asshat attitudes are Loooooong Gone. If you "special folks" leave now, ummmmm, can I have your stuff? Thanks CCP for the info!
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.09.17 12:29:00 - [78] Originally by: Carabao mmm now an excuse for lag srry too late > i helped reduce it and cancel subscription and hope 14999 others do too so and give other accounts the chance they can play lag free ... think as you like i'm saving it up for a real birthday present for my son hell who knows maybe in a few years later if eve will be online or offline > it's up to tha kid ... LOL!!! You've cancelled your account and you STILL whine? HAHAHAHAHA Man, you've made my day.
Ben Hump Minmatar The Kru Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.09.17 12:33:00 - [79] Edited by: Ben Hump on 17/09/2006 12:33:40 nice to read that but can we have some info; patce notes on kali maybe create patch notes about what is settled and then just add in if more comes just so ppl can get a feeling for the size of kali and get maybe some news on SISI testing on kali because some ppl wait can't and good luck with the server btw :) May contain traces of irony "Yes Mister Tristan"
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2006.09.17 12:39:00 - [80] Okay all well and good, but what are you doing about the hideous problem of macro miners stripping empire systems bare or cycling back and forth from ice fields uncontested on a timer that I can set my clock by?
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.17 12:59:00 - [81] Quote: The current plan is to continue deploying server hotfixes, and to do more testing on Singularity. We'll also be putting in more optimizations in Kali, but as a release date for Kali goes, we're more focused on Tranquility these days and we'd be happy to see Tranquility in a good stable state and Kali well tested and deployed in October. It should be pointed out at this point that Kali isn't all "just new stuff", there are fixes, optimizations and improvements in there which couldn't make it into Dragon. Kali release can still shift since public testing of Kali has inevitably been delayed due to Singularity being used for Tranquility troubleshooting, we are sure you understand the reasons behind our decision, we want to improve EVE because that's what she deserves. Thats what the community said since the first addon tbh. I know you always mean it and the testing shows that. Quote: Thank you all for your patience and sticking with us through thick and thin, ... I¦m married with TQ Btw, would it help if you make a list with current bugs that need log files and testing so ppl can focus on Sisi on them to give BH¦s a hand? Would it help to take TQ down for just 1 day? GM¦s could work on their petitions without having more, even if its just for 1 day, Dev¦s could take a look at the server without risking to kick pilots from nodes etc.... Eve rocks and it always will. Dev blogs give me back faith in eve Ship lovers click here
Scall McLean	Posted - 2006.09.17 13:01:00 - [82] I'm just going to love EVE even more when all these people who are threatening to "Leave the game" finally do. We'll have a decently stable codebase... And I'll be able to do my filthy carebare mining in 0.0 space in relative peace, without having to worry about all the nasty semi-pirates and gank squads out there trying to bust a man making a living.
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.17 13:35:00 - [83] I realise you're all trying to fix the problems and I hope you'll take this as constructive criticism but right now, Eve feels like a bucket with a hole in. You keep topping it up with new subscriptions which is great - we've reached 30K PCU but I'm seeing an increasing number of your longer term subscribers - 3 yr plus players - leaving because quite frankly, they've had it up to the eyeballs with the lag, the constant reboots, not to mention the persistant delays to Kali (as well as splitting it into three parts, which just like Shiva, is concentrating on Empire dwellers at the expense of 0.0 Empire building). Eve right now feels like you (CCP,) having taken your eye off the ball for so long, are now frantically playing catch up. In short, alot of what you're talking about feels like closing the barn yard door after the horse has bolted... I just hope you never leave it this late again otherwise you're going to see a sizeable proportion of your long term member base upping and leaving because they've had enough. Make a Difference
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.17 13:41:00 - [84] Today we did the same thing as yesterday in D7-ZAC. 200 man fleetbattle at pos. Very little lag overall and probably the best fight in ages lasting over 30mins with total mayhem. Thank you ccp. with the cash you earn through this game perhaps you could get in ****loads of hardware and we'd have it solved. Sometimes it seems throwing money at a problem will work ;)
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.17 13:42:00 - [85] What's that you say? Kali delayed more? Really?! How surprising and unexpected!
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.09.17 13:56:00 - [86] GO GO GO GO OVEUR
Louisa Torres Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.17 13:57:00 - [87] Originally by: spurious signal What's that you say? Kali delayed more? Really?! How surprising and unexpected! You'd obvioulsy rather they just deployed it, damn the torpedos eh? Thanks for the update, Oveur. Originally by: Rodj Blake People have been complaining about the poor state of PvP since May 2003. That doesn't mean that it was hopeless then, and it doesn't mean that it's hopeless now.

Oveur	Posted - 2006.09.17 14:24:00 - [88] Originally by: Jim McGregor Nice blog. :) So a node can only hold the solarsystems from the same constellation? I thought a node could handle solarsystems from several different constellations... Reply to this and ill spread the word in the forums, when we talk about load balancing. :) We usually group solar systems by constellation as default, but individual solar systems are regularly pulled out of their constellation and distributed seperately, so a node can hold any mix of the above. Senior Producer EVE Online


Oveur	Posted - 2006.09.17 14:27:00 - [89] Originally by: Decairn There are 3rd party tools to find memory leaks. Are those used at all or is the language causing the leaks not supported? We have lots of them, but occasionally we get leaks which elude us. Especially since many of these tools can't be easily deployed to a live production environment like TQ. Senior Producer EVE Online


Oveur	Posted - 2006.09.17 14:28:00 - [90] Originally by: Ralitge boyter Good to see you guys are on the case. Now the only thing I am wondering is how can the two systems (China and World) be so diffrent... Would it not be wise to try and push to having the same codebase? Just wondering of course. Though I de recall a certain software developer ehm whats their name again, Microsoft or something doing the same with their products due to porting issues they had during development. They claimed it would cut cost and save time in development of much needed new things and improvments. Ah, never mind they must be crazy. They probably stoped existing by now. They have the same codebase. Dragon got it's name from being the first release to China. Senior Producer EVE Online


Oveur	Posted - 2006.09.17 14:36:00 - [91] Originally by: Audrea Thanks for keeping us update, though I still think EVE needs more devs working on fixes, than new stuff :) Other than that, there is one thing I would like to get clarified: Originally by: Oveur We're also seeing an issue with ships within gangs being able to lock down a single solar system. Does that mean you want to change the way alliances currently lock down solar systems in preparation for dread assaults? I just want to know, as such change (meaning allowing fleet to jump in and not suicide by doing that) would significantly change the tactics of POS warfare. This hasn't got anything to do with gameplay, this is a bug where nobody within the solar system can move at all. Remove the ship and everything goes back to normal. Senior Producer EVE Online

Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.17 14:41:00 - [92] TQ grew from a 5k to a 30k pilot server. How big can you make it? What are the estimated costs for doubling the current server size? What can you change to increase its size? Is that even possible? (Technical details welcome) Ship lovers click here
Quartex	Posted - 2006.09.17 14:43:00 - [93] Thanks for the update. It's great to know that you guys are on the case with the issues that we are experiencing. No-one is going to cancel a subscription because new content is delayed. Most experienced players get heavily involved in Fleet actions and it is these that are most affected by lag. We all claim to hate politics but lets face it; it's this and the big Alliance fights that write the history of this great game and brings us back. My opinion is that we should fix lag related stuff first and then move onto new shiney's and professions (unless those professions reduce the number of people who want to be involved in Fleet actions and therefore system load!). Everyone has a fistful of training to do, so delaying Kali to fix lag gives us time to catch up ~ no big deal there then. There is so much right in the game and the growing numbers of players bear testament to this. Losing a well set up ship to lag just feels unfair and negates the boring stuff you've done to pay for the ship in the first place! Good luck guys, the bottom line is that a future without logging into EvE is a scary empty thought. We all want you to succeed even if we give you a hard time sometimes. We are really one team in the pursuit of online excellence!
Wraithbane	Posted - 2006.09.17 14:52:00 - [94] Many thanks. Thats all many of us wanted, was some current information about the problem.
Snowpig United Alliance Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.09.17 15:08:00 - [95] ok, now experiencing the bug written in the blog. What to do? Sit there until next DT and hope nobody will blow up several hundred millions of POS structures away or will there be a restart of any kind?

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.09.17 15:11:00 - [96] i want to look at the tower, about to contact you in game. not wise you mention the location on the forums Spank You later

Spiderweb GENERIC RACE Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.17 15:19:00 - [97] the War for 9uy in Providence is getting unbearable. EVERY time we try to assault a POS, we get ridiculus lag and after a 1-2 minutes a node crash. Resulting in many deaths and a failed POS assault. This is really ruining EVE especially since EVE holds a competitive environment that where time matters a lot (pos reinforce, sovereinghty etc) I know Im not helping, but I had to give another report on the situation right now. ----------------------------------------------- "Light, in the Darkest of Hours..."

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.09.17 15:34:00 - [98] i have the server logs with me now, i have mailed the programmers and this issue is being looked into right now. i will try to keep you posted regarding it Spank You later

Isyel Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.17 15:45:00 - [99] Originally by: Sharkbait i have the server logs with me now, i have mailed the programmers and this issue is being looked into right now. i will try to keep you posted regarding it That referring to Spiderweb's post? shameless hopefulness
Dane Hur Caldari DaHOOD Communication	Posted - 2006.09.17 16:33:00 - [100] thanks for the info, its nice to be able to find info on the current problems. The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. - Wilfred Owen
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.17 16:44:00 - [101] D7-ZAC is so playable today, I could've cried for joy. Let's hear it for chucking hardware at a problem ;D Fingers crossed for no nodecrash before DT.
Nev Clavain Wise Guys	Posted - 2006.09.17 18:02:00 - [102] Nice blog - exactly what was needed in my opinion. ________________________________________________ A Journey....
DiamondX	Posted - 2006.09.17 18:04:00 - [103] As a developer myself I can understand exactly what you're going through. People have to realize that programming is a huge logic problem and when some parts of the logic are changed it can affect other parts of the logic in unexpected ways. You will get bugs with any piece of software you have and the only way to minimize these to an unnoticeable level is with manpower and extensive testing. Just take a look at Windows Vista, Microsoft has an army of developers and Testers to make sure that the Windows operating system is very solid when it comes out, but you STILL have to install update patches every month when you buy it. Even at that though, Microsoft has delayed Windows Vista countless times and for up to a year. The problem with MMORPGs over something like Windows is that the developers have to continually support a living breathing system that is continually updated. Good luck to the developers on their debugging efforts.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.09.17 18:35:00 - [104] Nice to hear the problems are actually fixable and will just take some time.. Originally by: Dev Blog Thank you all for your patience and sticking with us through thick and thin, we will make it up to you in the near future. Complementary WCS II for everyone? ducks [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" :-p
Elrich Zann Minmatar Hidden Agenda	Posted - 2006.09.17 19:16:00 - [105] Sometimes it's hard to tell who loves Eve more, the players or the Devs. Obviously both sides want to see a stable Tranquility server. Thanks for the update guys, and good luck in the bug hunt.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.17 21:21:00 - [106] Just a piece of information and a couple of questions. I run missions for the best agent for Caldari Navy in safe space...yes, you guessed it, I'm Toras Egassuo's ***. But she's a hard woman to please, and I'm not her only loyal servant. There are a HELL of a lot of us in Motsu. Since the latest patch, I've noticed very erratic performance. It often seems to be that the LAST spawn of a multi-spawn complex will very suddenly lag up...I'm talking the normal 60 seconds until you can turn on (or off, which can be just as critical) your Gist X-type Extra Large Shield Booster...those panicked moments of screaming "Oh for *'s sake DO something" at the screen that every mission runner dreads. Now, from reading the blog I'm assuming that this is one of the issues that Dragon has made worse...whilst there WAS lag before the patch, it was consistent...if you logged on and it was okay, then it would STAY okay, or at worst, slowly degrade giving you time to make a decision on whether to continue playing or not. These very sudden "lag spikes" are something new, and are hell to contend with. And just for the PVPer's amongst you, no I'm not about to come and find your gatecamp anytime soon. I'm a wuss, I don't want to fight you. Deal with it. On to the questions; 1. Is there ANY acceptance amongst the dev team that it was a bad idea to have only ONE agent in safe space who was of markedly higher quality than all the others? 2. If so, are there any plans to do anything about it (i.e. create another (or several, even) agents with equivalent quality to Toras who NEVER send you into 0.4 and lower? --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Skrypt Gallente Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.17 21:51:00 - [107] Simply wow. Thank you for your hard work and devotion. I'm very glad to have my EVE subscription and in the midst of all these quirks. ___________
Tas Devil JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.09.17 23:08:00 - [108] Thanks Oveur, As always you have an uncany way to express what the community wants to hear, and it always comes accross as genuinely believable. Its always refreshing and informative to read your blogs. Tas The best Laugh ever ... Credit goes to Killer8 for this ! This includes bad language... so beware
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.18 05:31:00 - [109] Wow that certainly was alot of issues, hope you manage to fix them without too much headache. Good call on delaying the patch. Recruitment
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.18 05:47:00 - [110] Originally by: Sharkbait i want to look at the tower, about to contact you in game. not wise you mention the location on the forums Now, how many games have devs like this?????? Please try to name one. Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.18 05:50:00 - [111] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Ralitge boyter Good to see you guys are on the case. Now the only thing I am wondering is how can the two systems (China and World) be so diffrent... Would it not be wise to try and push to having the same codebase? Just wondering of course. Though I de recall a certain software developer ehm whats their name again, Microsoft or something doing the same with their products due to porting issues they had during development. They claimed it would cut cost and save time in development of much needed new things and improvments. Ah, never mind they must be crazy. They probably stoped existing by now. They have the same codebase. Dragon got it's name from being the first release to China. To clarify what Oveur said: as he mentioned in a blog, or a forum post, Dragon worked very well in China since it was built from the ground up with Dragon. TQ had been running the old system for over three years when Dragon was added to it. If you've ever installed a new version of Windows on a machine by doing an upgrade instead of a clean install, then saying "** it, I'm reformatting," you'll see how this can have an enormous impact on how the system runs. Originally by:** DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.18 07:09:00 - [112] Edited by: Garia666 on 18/09/2006 07:11:37 Edited by: Garia666 on 18/09/2006 07:10:14 Story of my EVE.. I hope you guys fix things soon. Every time a patch comes out its been said that it should improve the speed of EVE online. And mabe it is when you keep in mind that there are more people playing EVE online everyday. The lagg remains the same.
ManiSto	Posted - 2006.09.18 07:26:00 - [113] Nice to hear that something is actually happening behind the scene... You talk about making it up for us in the near future... How about making it up by releasing large(r) tractor beams?
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.18 07:39:00 - [114] WOW finaly a good blog. Thanks Good to hear what's going on with server code and testing. We know that you are working on it, just such information could be posted like each month. Not that it helps us much, but at least we are feeling better informed AND will *** around the problems less. So far I get you learned one lesson. One point stands open for me. There is no notice about backend database changes/optimisations. From what I see in the blog, you are mainly dealing with load balancing on the frontend (connection, cluster and computation load balancing). I'd like to see some information about backend database development. Object handling and updating IS done mainly by the backend database and I think there are some major bottlenecks (loading corp hangar for up to 2 minutes, bm copying issues etc.). Would like to see information about that. So keep up the good work and keep us informed :-) Originally by:** JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Zarch AlDain Friends of Everyone	Posted - 2006.09.18 09:24:00 - [115] Originally by: Grey Area Just a piece of information and a couple of questions. I run missions for the best agent for Caldari Navy in safe space...yes, you guessed it, I'm Toras Egassuo's ***. But she's a hard woman to please, and I'm not her only loyal servant. There are a HELL of a lot of us in Motsu. Since the latest patch, I've noticed very erratic performance. It often seems to be that the LAST spawn of a multi-spawn complex will very suddenly lag up...I'm talking the normal 60 seconds until you can turn on (or off, which can be just as critical) your Gist X-type Extra Large Shield Booster...those panicked moments of screaming "Oh for *'s sake DO something" at the screen that every mission runner dreads. Now, from reading the blog I'm assuming that this is one of the issues that Dragon has made worse...whilst there WAS lag before the patch, it was consistent...if you logged on and it was okay, then it would STAY okay, or at worst, slowly degrade giving you time to make a decision on whether to continue playing or not. These very sudden "lag spikes" are something new, and are hell to contend with. And just for the PVPer's amongst you, no I'm not about to come and find your gatecamp anytime soon. I'm a wuss, I don't want to fight you. Deal with it. On to the questions; 1. Is there ANY acceptance amongst the dev team that it was a bad idea to have only ONE agent in safe space who was of markedly higher quality than all the others? 2. If so, are there any plans to do anything about it (i.e. create another (or several, even) agents with equivalent quality to Toras who NEVER send you into 0.4 and lower? I run missions there too - the main problem I am seeing is not on Motsu itself though - it is in Oichiya and maybe one of the other neighbouring systems. Even though those systems generally have less than 50 people in. I am turning down any mission to those systems now.. As a side note you need to look at agent info more closely. She is only the best agent if you are running for Caldari Navy itself. Several other Caldari corps have agents as good or better (same quality, lower sec) - and I am currently in the process of moving over to one of those. (Just waiting for a decent offer from the Motsu agent). Zarch AlDain
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.18 09:44:00 - [116] Dear Oveur, We have been screaming "fix stuff first before introducing new stuff" for ages and you seem to be doing just that now. Thank you very much and I wish you the best of luck PS Memory leaks that increase over time and shut down char after 1 hour to 3-4 hours after logging in seem ti happen directly after every patch deployment and then slowly go away over time. Sometime when you are not doing anything better let us know what causes this phenomenon/a which I personally find ... fascinating (?).
Naran Darkmood Gallente MC Cubed Inc	Posted - 2006.09.18 10:19:00 - [117] Edited by: Naran Darkmood on 18/09/2006 10:25:22 Originally by: Kunming Fixing TQ while delaying Kali is good, when Kali comes in we'll have a healthy TQ better: Fixing TQ while delaying Kali is good, before Kali comes in we'll have a healthy TQ -----------------------------------------------
Snowpig United Alliance Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.09.18 10:37:00 - [118] I have been at the tower when the constellation was restarted. After restart i found myself 38AU away from my position. Made a BM of that spot, if that helps.
Hehulk 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.18 10:43:00 - [119] So, when you say making it up to us soon, what do you mean? And thanks alot for what CCPs GMs did in 9UY yesterday. And for the blog, and the game, and well, lots of stuff. ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin
Hehulk 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.18 11:04:00 - [120] They can only manually node balance when the servers are down, and even then they don't like doing it as it can really **** things up. ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin
Gragnor Order of the Arrow	Posted - 2006.09.18 11:04:00 - [121] I was wondering would it be easier for GM's etc if we sent in an urgent petition within 15 mins of a POS assault - so you can push more resources onto the node before we all go on a rampage? Would that help in the short term?
DrAtomic Polytope Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.18 11:34:00 - [122] Kali is Mr. Murphy's middlename imho... :D ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Umbriele Gallente Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.18 11:52:00 - [123] 1) Remove lag causes 2) Fix old and new bugs 3) Deploy Kali 4) Remove lag causes 5) Fix old and new bugs..
Senechal Kapouillax	Posted - 2006.09.18 11:59:00 - [124] Good luck with that guys. Still, I can't believe people can still be stuck with memory leaks these days...
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.18 12:15:00 - [125] Originally by: Senechal Kapouillax Good luck with that guys. Still, I can't believe people can still be stuck with memory leaks these days... The trouble is it might not be a memory leak as such. A true memory leak is when the code has lost track of a resource and can no longer clean it up. Think of a coin dropping behind the cushions of your sofa. This may just be a resource eating problem where the code keeps allocating more and more memory because it needs it. These can be harder to track down sometimes because memory checkers might not see anything wrong. This is more akin to hording cash. Dealing with these usually involves some form of caching with older data being pushed out to disk. Unfortunately getting such systems running well can be a nightmare and might explain the inconsistent performance one poster mentioned. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.18 12:29:00 - [126] thanks for the info, it's claming just to know help is on its way Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida. My sig is blue not pink although i can't argue with the slave part - Xorus wth whats this blue stuff all of a sudden? Did I miss a mail? -eris Bwahahahaha!11 Immy was here
Wilma Cox	Posted - 2006.09.18 12:53:00 - [127] Originally by: Andrue A true memory leak is when the code has lost track of a resource and can no longer clean it up. Think of a coin dropping behind the cushions of your sofa. Thanks sir, it's my RL job to track this stuff, so I have a pretty good idea of what it means :) It's a pretty good description for the non tech people around though! Originally by: Andrue This may just be a resource eating problem where the code keeps allocating more and more memory because it needs it. These can be harder to track down sometimes because memory checkers might not see anything wrong. This is more akin to hording cash. Dealing with these usually involves some form of caching with older data being pushed out to disk. Unfortunately getting such systems running well can be a nightmare and might explain the inconsistent performance one poster mentioned. Resource leaks can be tracked in a similar manner, provided you use the adequate constructs (listeners, ref counting, logging, per resource logging, etc...) and don't occur when you use automatic tracking adapters. Well, So, in a nutshell, it's the oldest problem of programming science, it's not that hard to fix it before it occurs and I'm still amazed at how common I can find that stuff around.
Senechal Kapouillax	Posted - 2006.09.18 12:54:00 - [128] Originally by: Wilma Cox So, in a nutshell, it's the oldest problem of programming science, it's not that hard to fix it before it occurs and I'm still amazed at how common I can find that stuff around. That was me BTW, stupid forums :)
Tia Kohi	Posted - 2006.09.18 14:28:00 - [129] Just sounds like more CCP bull****. I'll believe it when I see it.
Crazygsimo	Posted - 2006.09.18 14:30:00 - [130] yes CCP is looking to fix the problems we all have in the last days, but u guys didn¦t think ccp should us give some free days Game Time for the problems we had???
Hehulk 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.18 14:59:00 - [131] Originally by: Tia Kohi Just sounds like more CCP bull****. I'll believe it when I see it. Post with your main or STFU ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin
Centauris Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.18 15:06:00 - [132] Give me another game that does what CCP does in the form of letting you know whats happneing, shows you that you are getting your moneis worth. They could just say stfu to everyone but no they come through admitt mistakes and so forth. So to all those moners and whinners, STFU, like to see you do better. Making ISK is the name of the game. Those who say otherwise are either poor bastards or liars! "Kill, Collect, Sell"
Lorn Cholaxu Gallente Monadyne	Posted - 2006.09.18 15:47:00 - [133] I'm very curious whether the EVE development team has any sort of automated unit, integration and regression testing in place for their system? I know that in terms of architecture, reproducing the traffic that EVE sees galaxy-wide isn't something that's affordable for you guys. However, you should be able to isolate and hammer away at model nodes. I'm a software testing specialist, with experience in the ASF and many publications for Veritas, O'Reilly and Sun Microsystems. I know you guys don't use Java but neither do I anymore, really (I'm all about Mathematica these days--I only use Java to develop my rule engine). The principles of automated testing are the same whatever language you use. We had a lot of the same problems testing systems running in OpenEJB that you guys seem to have with EVE--the difficulty of simulating real time user traffic foremost among those problems. I think that full scale testing should be possible at the node level, and creating environments capable of simulating constellation-wide user behavior isn't at all beyond the realm of possibility if you use a rule engine. Perhaps you could configure a way to roll out changes for testing to specific constellation or system nodes, and let it be known that although opportunities above the average abound for capsuleers in these systems and constellations, they are chronically plagued with interference and temporal-distortion rifts due to spatial singularies arising from collapsed neutron stars. Or something like that. Basically, a few constellations become a known-in-advance permanent testing ground. I don't know if that's practical or possible because I know so little about your system architecture, but it's a thought. I never sweat the downtimes, but I do want to see you guys overcome these problems and have a good fire-hardened system for us to pwn each other on, without forcing the users to risk it all as beta-testers. Automated Testing FTW, -- Lorn
Taedrin	Posted - 2006.09.18 16:28:00 - [134] Memory leaks? OUCH. You have my deepest sympathy - here's to hoping you have enough caffeine to keep you up long enough to find them. I also hope that these aren't the type of memory leaks that only cause a problem hundreds of lines of code after the leak happens - those are especially nasty.
EzSnake Caldari Cereal Killerz	Posted - 2006.09.18 17:43:00 - [135] I'm not here to knock CCP or it's Dev's...and I'm not that technical on these aspects of coding etc. All I can tell you is, this game ran a hell of alot better 2 yrs ago on a machine w/ half the specs of my current machine. Since newest patch, the problems have gotten WORSE, NOT BETTER. (yeah I know you said, the patch also created more problems etc etc).. THAT IS THE PROBLEM --- Each and every patch, for a long time, has always created more problems and resolved fewer than it created... Do you not have proper testing techniques? Because that sure does sound arse backwards to me. Why should we have to be your guinea pigs on TQ?? and continue to have to pay you for gameplay that gets worse and worse?!?!?! Prior to latest patch my eve took up 200-400MB RAM and never went far over 400, even after 12hrs play. Since your latest patch it takes 500 at startup and will work it way up to eat ALL of my 1GB RAM, then work its way to eat up all 4GB of virtual RAM?!?!?! and it does this within 1hr of gameplay. (WTH!!) Making the game so laggy, I couldn't fight a Ibis and win, due to the lag outs!!!! While I do appreciate your efforts and honesty (if being that honest, I believe there's ALOT more your NOT tellin us). It is MOOT if you keep sending out patches that fix a handfull of bugs, but creates a basket full of more... Do what you need, delay Kali if you must, just get the game working right and stop being such a resource HOG!!
Raven DeBlade Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.09.18 18:03:00 - [136] Thanks for great info as usual CCP =) "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
MrBreaker Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.18 18:12:00 - [137] Fixing TQ while delaying Kali is good, before Kali comes in we'll have a healthy TQ This is a dilemma... spend ages fixing TQ, only to have more problems which will NO doubt surface once Kali goes live or release Kali sooner with new bugs going over code with unfixed bugs, leading to potentially loads of bugs. Get Kali onto Singularity ASAP and keep it under test for longer than normal... and somehow do a full mirror of TQ so everyone can log on. I really want you guys to get this right, and hopefully see eve hitting 50k online one day
Svenjabi Xiang Gallente Dark Matter Collective	Posted - 2006.09.18 20:10:00 - [138] Being new to Eve, but not to IT, I wish you all the best. I enjoy the game such as has been presented, and only hope to see it grow and continue. Having lived through many failures and performance issues in IT (over 14 years and counting), I think, if your asking, that you should probably spend as little time getting the existing TQ code to "snuff" as can be done to address the concerns the system is currently having (or had last night anyway). After having addressed the most glaring issues, please then spend the time instead combing the Kali expansion, carrying over existing code after it has been reviewed and model tested. It is ever so frustrating to spend a great deal of time poring over code only to be throwing out that code in a very short period of time. Get the code that you will be using right, stress test the product that you are going into right, and monitor/preserve the existing community as much as you have to in the interim. If you do this, you'll have a good product going forward instead of "chasing your tail" and you'll be spending the time most constructively to get the Eve community into a release that is stable AND has more features. It doesn't have to be a "zero sum" game of features vs. stability. Great game, btw Svenjabi Xiang
Tia Kohi	Posted - 2006.09.18 20:22:00 - [139] Originally by: Hehulk Originally by: Tia Kohi Just sounds like more CCP bull****. I'll believe it when I see it. Post with your main or STFU No. I'll post with any of the many characters I play in this game. I have a better idea. Why don't you fly to Iceland and suckoff the devs at ccp since you are so in love with them.
Hehulk 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.18 20:31:00 - [140] Originally by: Tia Kohi Originally by: Hehulk Originally by: Tia Kohi Just sounds like more CCP bull****. I'll believe it when I see it. Post with your main or STFU No. I'll post with any of the many characters I play in this game. I have a better idea. Why don't you fly to Iceland and suckoff the devs at ccp since you are so in love with them. If it's all the same to you, I'll fly about and pimp my epeen some more ganking silly war targets than do that. Everyone has faults. Mine is my stuborness, your seems to be a willingness to accept things as they are. ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin
Tia Kohi	Posted - 2006.09.18 20:37:00 - [141] Originally by: Hehulk Originally by: Tia Kohi Originally by: Hehulk Originally by: Tia Kohi Just sounds like more CCP bull****. I'll believe it when I see it. Post with your main or STFU No. I'll post with any of the many characters I play in this game. I have a better idea. Why don't you fly to Iceland and suckoff the devs at ccp since you are so in love with them. If it's all the same to you, I'll fly about and pimp my epeen some more ganking silly war targets than do that. Everyone has faults. Mine is my stuborness, your seems to be a willingness to accept things as they are. Ok that just made no sense. How am I accepting things the way they are? The only thing I accept is the devs are running EVE into the ground.

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.09.18 21:02:00 - [142] just letting you know, we have 3 possible fixes for the current problems. we will be testing them on sisi over the next few days and hope to get them to TQ asap. this also includes a fix for the Tower problem that papasmurf fixed this afternoon. altho we think we have fixes, the problems are still being looked into, we are also looking into the way the server uses it's ram in hopes of improving it as much as possible. again, i will keep you posted as i get information Spank You later

ParMizaN Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.18 21:41:00 - [143] We just knocked down a tower in empire with roughly 40 people, lag was quite bearable but there was no resistance. 0.1 system if it helps, and defences were not firing. sig edited for lack of pink really PINK -eris Pink is overrated, yellow is the new pink - Xorus XORUS!!1 HEATHEN KILLKILLKILLKILLKILL - Immy

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:20:00 - [144] if you do find a tower with no forcefield, please don't kill it. just leave it alone and report the issue to a GM via the petition system. Spank You later

Tas Devil JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:30:00 - [145] Originally by: Wilma Cox Originally by: Andrue A true memory leak is when the code has lost track of a resource and can no longer clean it up. Think of a coin dropping behind the cushions of your sofa. Thanks sir, it's my RL job to track this stuff, so I have a pretty good idea of what it means :) It's a pretty good description for the non tech people around though! Originally by: Andrue This may just be a resource eating problem where the code keeps allocating more and more memory because it needs it. These can be harder to track down sometimes because memory checkers might not see anything wrong. This is more akin to hording cash. Dealing with these usually involves some form of caching with older data being pushed out to disk. Unfortunately getting such systems running well can be a nightmare and might explain the inconsistent performance one poster mentioned. Resource leaks can be tracked in a similar manner, provided you use the adequate constructs (listeners, ref counting, logging, per resource logging, etc...) and don't occur when you use automatic tracking adapters. Well, So, in a nutshell, it's the oldest problem of programming science, it's not that hard to fix it before it occurs and I'm still amazed at how common I can find that stuff around. Are you pitching for a job at CCP ? or are you telling us you are god's answer to memory leaks ? Not quite sure what your contribution is here... Tas The best Laugh ever ... Credit goes to Killer8 for this ! This includes bad language... so beware
Tas Devil JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:35:00 - [146] Originally by: Tia Kohi Originally by: Hehulk Originally by: Tia Kohi Just sounds like more CCP bull****. I'll believe it when I see it. Post with your main or STFU No. I'll post with any of the many characters I play in this game. I have a better idea. Why don't you fly to Iceland and suckoff the devs at ccp since you are so in love with them. Right so I get a 72hrs ban for suggesting the devs should spend less time telling us about their drinking habits and more about the game... but this guy can troll and insult everyone without consequence... And you say the moderation on here is fair and not targeted at all... Tas The best Laugh ever ... Credit goes to Killer8 for this ! This includes bad language... so beware
GoldHorn Venture Capital Incorporated	Posted - 2006.09.18 23:51:00 - [147] Originally by: Tas Devil Originally by: Tia Kohi Originally by: Hehulk Originally by: Tia Kohi Just sounds like more CCP bull****. I'll believe it when I see it. Post with your main or STFU No. I'll post with any of the many characters I play in this game. I have a better idea. Why don't you fly to Iceland and suckoff the devs at ccp since you are so in love with them. Right so I get a 72hrs ban for suggesting the devs should spend less time telling us about their drinking habits and more about the game... but this guy can troll and insult everyone without consequence... And you say the moderation on here is fair and not targeted at all... There u go... another 72h for u .
Altraz	Posted - 2006.09.19 00:36:00 - [148] Whoohoo!! "Thank you all for your patience and sticking with us through thick and thin, we will make it up to you in the near future." Devs - Does that mean free EXTRA GAMETIME for all those downtime we've had to bear? (Wishful thinking)
Resin Kadir Lexx Corp	Posted - 2006.09.19 12:08:00 - [149] As always I have no doubt CCP will overcome the issues. We all cried for the first 3 days after RMR came out but it got better. With bigger leaps come bigger bruises but they all go away. Thank you for the update. We asked for it and you delivered. //applause.
Lazuran	Posted - 2006.09.19 12:16:00 - [150] Originally by: Sharkbait just letting you know, we have 3 possible fixes for the current problems. I presume that the first of these 3 is "out" (rollback due to a hotfix deployed at downtime ...). ;-) "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Raider Zero Minmatar Federation	Posted - 2006.09.19 12:44:00 - [151] Edited by: Raider Zero on 19/09/2006 12:44:49 Well, here I go off to work. Without being able to change skills because the hotfix was broken and the roll-back somehow broke the boot-up procedure. At least one of my accounts will not lose any time, but c'mon. Guys, I love the game, but this is torturous and now I'm gonna lose way to much training time to not say something about it. Hope things get fixed and sorted out soon.
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.19 13:25:00 - [152] well i have a 25 day skill training atm so wont be loosing any SP on this

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.09.19 14:11:00 - [153] there was a problem with the startup scripts. this wasn't anything to do with the hotfixes, but they have been fixed anyways. i will keep you updated Spank You later

Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.20 01:15:00 - [154] so whats the next step sharky if u can inform us
Resolve	Posted - 2006.09.20 01:32:00 - [155] Edited by: Resolve on 20/09/2006 01:35:27 Originally by: Sharkbait there was a problem with the startup scripts. this wasn't anything to do with the hotfixes, but they have been fixed anyways. i will keep you updated Thanks for the updates Sharkbait and Oveur. It is most appreciated. Personally, I love to see it and by seeing a lot of posts on the boards, I'd say most people would love this type of update when Things Go BadÖ. Small posts just to update the playerbase would be optimal, instead of waiting for a dev blog to explain it all. A centralized place for people to get info from devs (even a "Dev Post Finder ala eve-search.com) would be a HUGE plus. Having to go from this forum to that forum, this post to that post is tiresome, monotonous and not time-feasable for many (including me, though I try to keep up-to-date), just to get some piece of info to see what's really going on. The info is usually there, just not remotely readily-accessible. Part of communication is accessibility. This topic is stickied ATM but will eventually be relegated to the Nth page of the forums. Again, love the info and keep it coming! I always like to see devs replying, acknowledging issues and letting us know that it is not just being ignored, people appreciate that. A more central place to access these tid-bits of megacyte would help with the (relatively)recent player unrest would be...Super-DuperÖ.
Sazumaan Johnza	Posted - 2006.09.20 04:23:00 - [156] To all the moaners can I please ask you to appreciate three things: 1. Direct DEV feedback is usually unheard of. Developers never talk to the end-users, it's usually done via "communications managers" (a.k.a marketing / PR / "community updates" etc etc). We have a real priviledge here so respect that. Can't believe how rude some of you are just go STFU morons. 2. Long term strategy. CCP is obviously in it for the long haul and I am sick and tired of all the moaners complaining about the current issues. They have limited resources with limited time so just accept the fact that they are working on the issues and that they will be resolved in time. When have you been outside last? Yes, EVE is your life as it is mine but please get some long-term perspective. 3. Shareholder value. Don't be under any illusion that CCP is here to have fun. At the end of the day they are here to make money and if their core and only product causes a loss of subscriptions they will do everything to minimise such loss. Ever thought about the fact that they need a stable sexy product more than we do? Keep up the good work CCP and we're looking forward to continued excellent communication and better stability. - Sazu
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.09.20 07:15:00 - [157] Edited by: Phoenix Lonestar on 20/09/2006 07:19:40 Edited by: Phoenix Lonestar on 20/09/2006 07:17:49 Conservative estimates put CCP's income from EVE (using CCP's own numbers) at around $43,000US/day. More liberal estimates are pegged at $75,000US/day. Surely the CUSTOMERS who provide this income are allowed to *****, moan, and gripe as much as they want, without being heckled by fanboys. There was a thread already posted in the General forums that was moved to the Known Issues and Workarounds section in an attempt to make it fade into obscurity. At this point it's 10 pages long and wasn't answered (and still isn't, if you read the text of Oveur's post, and it's conspicuous omission of any mention of lag, and its insistence that Dragon was the greatest thing to happen to EVE since the yarrrrdware upgrade), until 8 days after the thread began. The PR on this mess has been horrible, but at least I see some interaction and acknowledgement occurring in this thread. I must thank CCP for that, but at the same time, I wonder if you guys play the game anymore. You look at your numbers for memory and CPU usage on your end, but you ignore the playability on the client end. Just because your monitoring software says CPU usage is down overall, doesn't mean that everyone who is experiencing lag is imagining things. And the one thing that REALLY got under my skin was that the post said we'd all be rewarded for our patience. We won't. We all know we won't. Don't say it if you don't mean it. I fear the "reward" will be the release of Kali. Our reward is a planned expansion, that will more than likely introduce new bugs and performance issues for weeks? Not much of a reward. Though a way to do a respec would be awfully nice =D. Those extra 500k-1mil SP that I don't need for anything would be welcome in other skill branches. Just a thought, hehehe. Or even skill queuing! Now that would be FANTASTIC.

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.09.20 09:48:00 - [158] Originally by: Miss Overlord so whats the next step sharky if u can inform us hmm. good question. the startup scripts was the problem with the hotfix. it's something that should have popped up sooner but for some strange reason didn't. the hotfix with the debugging stuff was put out, but there was a problem with the memory debugging feature that was added. not sure what the problem was, i just know it was working fine on a local host and the 5 days it was on sisi before it went to TQ. so i guess the next step is for Porkbelly to fix that. Once he has fixed that he will be looking into the memory problems. Richard thought the fix for the pos problem most probably wouldn't work, so Papasmurf roled the fix back (from sisi, it never made TQ) and started working on it again yesterday morning. he got a fix in the morning, but our only problem is that we have been unable to reproduce this on either sisi or local test servers. So looks like we are going to have to test that on TQ. but i have full faith in Papasmurf Valar is looking into the current node death problem, not sure the details on it as there is nothing i can do to help him really and i've been doing other stuff. but it's being looked into. Mike is now working on the memory leak problem for the market nodes and generally looking for leaks. We took some fresh market data from TQ which he is looking at and once the memory debugging is fixed, then he can watch the memory useage while it's live. it's all go atm Spank You later

Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.20 11:10:00 - [159] very informative as always sharkbait - thanks for the heads up so tonights dt might just be worth going to bed i think expect 2-3 hours but all good as long as things are attempting to being fixed im happy to wait
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.21 17:31:00 - [160] Sharkbait...that was a very clear update...but I refer to my earlier suggestion...why don't you put this kind of stuff into a "Service Status" thread where everyone knows where to find it - we (players) don't need to post there, we just need YOU LOT (devs) to use it to keep us up to date. Everyone would know where to look, and there'd be no more "Oh, TQ isn't up, I don't know what the prolem is, so I'll have a whine on the forums". --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."

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