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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
613
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Posted - 2015.02.16 12:15:48 -
[61] - Quote
EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. So when you try to tack it on you run into the problem that CCP ran into - it serves no purpose. You can try to change aspects of EVE that would then make the game require interfacing via avatar. This is sure to upset a whole lot of people and possibly have disastrous results on established game play. Or you can make interfacing via avatar an option - request a lvl 4 mission as normal or do it via avatar by walking up to a mission-giving terminal for example. This is useless and no one will bother using the terminal for avatars because it will take longer. Why bother walking into a player-run clothing store rather than just buying their clothing off the market from the comfort of your space ship?
Sure, some EVE players might sometimes enjoy standing around in a bar chatting with each other in person. Does that justify the expense in time, money, and man hours to develop? Probably not. The existing team seems to already have their plates full. Updating and redesigning the spaceships is an ever ongoing task. Then there are all of the other objects in space, stations and gates and stuff. The stations all now need to be updated with PBR, and CCP wants to add activity around stations in busy systems for example. Avatar play would require the same constant updating over the years. Look at those early WiS videos. They seemed impressive back then, now they already look dated. They would at least require updated textures and lighting. There would need to be a team of artists and programmers focused just on maintaining WiS and all of its assets. Yet CCP has only been downsizing since Incarna. Two artists are left working on clothes, that is the WiS team now.
CCP can't just tack on a thrown together 3D chat room and forget about it. If it looks like crap or plays like crap then that reflects badly on all of EVE. When CQ starts looking dated I wouldn't be surprised to see it removed.
A WiS that is worth a crap would end up being its own game requiring its own budget and its own team. CCP realized this and so they did exactly that - put together a new team and made DUST. Unfortunately they didn't release it on the platform their player base is on. And it's a FPS, not particularly interesting, to me, and maybe not to the average EVE player either. Additionally it looks like they made it a PITA just like EVE, with skills and gear and money whatnot. That is not what I am looking for if I want to play a FPS. I'm guessing that is not what most FPS players are looking for. And a FPS in general is probably not what WiS advocates are looking for. Not sure who CCP was trying to cater to with DUST. Legion will be on PC at least but other than that it seems it will be the same game as DUST? It might have been cool to see a planet in Thera opened up for exploration on foot and ground vehicles. A massive open landscape free for all like DayZ on a MMO-sized world. Go down in a shuttle hunting for goods then try to slip them back to empire. It would have to be split up into multiple shards though. Instanced. Naughty word when it comes to EVE. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7934
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Posted - 2015.02.16 12:38:53 -
[62] - Quote
If only CCP would not go into WoD development and get everyone working on WiS and EVE altogether, it would be like SC but better.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9783
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:36:12 -
[63] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. So when you try to tack it on you run into the problem that CCP ran into - it serves no purpose. You can try to change aspects of EVE that would then make the game require interfacing via avatar. This is sure to upset a whole lot of people and possibly have disastrous results on established game play. Or you can make interfacing via avatar an option - request a lvl 4 mission as normal or do it via avatar by walking up to a mission-giving terminal for example. This is useless and no one will bother using the terminal for avatars because it will take longer. Why bother walking into a player-run clothing store rather than just buying their clothing off the market from the comfort of your space ship?
Sure, some EVE players might sometimes enjoy standing around in a bar chatting with each other in person. Does that justify the expense in time, money, and man hours to develop? Probably not. The existing team seems to already have their plates full. Updating and redesigning the spaceships is an ever ongoing task. Then there are all of the other objects in space, stations and gates and stuff. The stations all now need to be updated with PBR, and CCP wants to add activity around stations in busy systems for example. Avatar play would require the same constant updating over the years. Look at those early WiS videos. They seemed impressive back then, now they already look dated. They would at least require updated textures and lighting. There would need to be a team of artists and programmers focused just on maintaining WiS and all of its assets. Yet CCP has only been downsizing since Incarna. Two artists are left working on clothes, that is the WiS team now.
CCP can't just tack on a thrown together 3D chat room and forget about it. If it looks like crap or plays like crap then that reflects badly on all of EVE. When CQ starts looking dated I wouldn't be surprised to see it removed.
A WiS that is worth a crap would end up being its own game requiring its own budget and its own team. CCP realized this and so they did exactly that - put together a new team and made DUST. Unfortunately they didn't release it on the platform their player base is on. And it's a FPS, not particularly interesting, to me, and maybe not to the average EVE player either. Additionally it looks like they made it a PITA just like EVE, with skills and gear and money whatnot. That is not what I am looking for if I want to play a FPS. I'm guessing that is not what most FPS players are looking for. And a FPS in general is probably not what WiS advocates are looking for. Not sure who CCP was trying to cater to with DUST. Legion will be on PC at least but other than that it seems it will be the same game as DUST? It might have been cool to see a planet in Thera opened up for exploration on foot and ground vehicles. A massive open landscape free for all like DayZ on a MMO-sized world. Go down in a shuttle hunting for goods then try to slip them back to empire. It would have to be split up into multiple shards though. Instanced. Naughty word when it comes to EVE.
Perfectly well said (I bolded the best part lol). Except you used the word "Instanced", that's -2 cool points lol.
Funny thing is, it's not Just EVE where this happens. I played TANKS for a while and would visit various player run forums and there was always that fringe "Why can't we have INFANTRY" group lurking around every corner (a group never satisfied with then answer "this is a tank game" lol).
In Mech 3, Mech4 and MWO (ie "MECH Games") the same group exists, but they aren't just screaming for Elementals, but also Tanks, Aerospace fighters and Dropships.
To each his own of course, but personally i've never seen the allure of playing as an 'avatar'. I AM an avatar. What I tend to like to doing in a game is play as things I'm not (Mechs, Tanks, Jet Fighters, Asymmetrical Space Submarines ...I mean spaceships in EVE, etc). When I want to do something involving legs I tend to ...go outside.. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
936
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:44:36 -
[64] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:No one disputes it'd be an enormous step. Claiming it's "forward" is just your opinion. It isn't widely shared by THIS player base. OF the enormous steps that need to be taken, and should be taken, is this ONE of them? Not likely, no matter how dear to your heart it may be. You're the eye-candy fan? Fine. Info panels still rule this game. Praise be the text! ... but think of the childr- - I mean the girls! ... and the G.I.R.L.S.
As to whether multiple avatars can be supported, largely that depends on your computer. If you are running around your CQ with max settings turned on then in all probability you can definitely have two avatars running around in low settings.
Our graphics cards have come about eight generations futher on since Incarna.
The problem was not that the database had a problem, there is hardly any data involved. The problem is the design of the avatars and the CQs. I suspect there are too many nodes, skeleton attachment points, the textures are too high, code not optimised and there is or was some flaw in the code that ran a loop, which over heated our graphics cards. (... and all the database tells your client is how you vary, e.g. make the nose 5% shorter and eyes 10 points smaller, it already has all the heavy lifting data on your computer).
I lost a GTX 8800 Nvidiot card to Incarna, I checked the heat and it was fine, came back a few hours later and it was dead. I am still oh just slightly, mildly irritated about that. Especially since they didn't acknowledge it in any way at the least.
However, we have better systems, with better cooling, there are tools to check your FPS, you can change your settings, maybe there needs to be some load detection involved where it turns settings down?
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
285
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:47:46 -
[65] - Quote
I never understand the whole WiS thing. It is like the argument i had with a SC guy about a space toilet in that game increasing immersion. Oh and it wasn't even a zero g toilet. Getting in and out of space ships and *waiting* always *waiting* to do the thing you want to do (ie get in a different one and undock or use the market) gets old very very fast (and going for a crap? really? and floating feckle matter? ). There will always be a lot of people that will want it turned off.
It is like learning to land in Elite dangerous. It completely destroys immersion because it is really stupid that in the future with space ships, its harder to land or use a autopilot than 60 years ago.
And someone a page or 5 back said something about free to play whatever. God please don't do free to play. They suck, and they are *not* free. And no a fixed price for life also doesn't work. Server and bandwidth cost per month and the only way to have single shard that is around for more than a few years is with subscriptions.
What Eve should be is the best *EVE* there is. There are plenty of other games out their that do that other stuff. They are not eve. That is fine. Lets just not try and make eve them.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9789
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:30:25 -
[66] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote: What Eve should be is the best *EVE* there is. There are plenty of other games out their that do that other stuff. They are not eve. That is fine. Lets just not try and make eve them.
NO! NEGATIVE!
There can not be a uniquqe sandbox set in space game. ALL must conform (thus letting us walk around to do stuff that for 12 years we could do just by sitting in our space ship and clikcing!!). Resistance is futile!
/sarcasm |
Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
5
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:57:36 -
[67] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind.
Eve was created over 10 years ago. There are likely countless things in the game right now that weren't in the original plans. Times are changing, and if EVE is going to stay relevant, it too, needs to change.
The rest of that was TL;DR |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16122
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:04:03 -
[68] - Quote
How many times does a question have to be asked and get the same answer before optimistic persistence turns into blind stupidity?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9793
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:10:11 -
[69] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:How many times does a question have to be asked and get the same answer before optimistic persistence turns into blind stupidity?
42 |
Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
5
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:10:52 -
[70] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:How many times does a question have to be asked and get the same answer before optimistic persistence turns into blind stupidity?
When were you when WIS was died?? |
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1984
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:14:41 -
[71] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:The PvP'ers in this game You mean... everyone?
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
616
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:47:40 -
[72] - Quote
Boozbaz wrote: Eve was created over 10 years ago. There are likely countless things in the game right now that weren't in the original plans.
There have been many things added, and they all revolve around spaceships and/or spreadsheets, and utilize the existing framework of the game.
The rest of my post which you didn't have the attention span to read stated that an avatar-based game would require its own dedicated team and budget if it were to be worth a damn. CCP seems to agree, having formed a dedicated team to create DUST, which didn't seem to be a critical hit exactly. They may be refactoring it on PC as Legion and allowing EVE players to jump into it, but I don't think this is the kind of game most WiS advocates want. I don't think most passionate WiS advocates even know what they want. Kind of hard for CCP to develop for that. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7781
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Posted - 2015.02.16 16:34:01 -
[73] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind.
Oh, you kids and your lack of historical knowledge.
CCP had avatar play in mind for this game since before they started coding it. Since before they were CCP in fact. The only reason they took so long to implement it was due to the lack of software/ hardware.
Like WIS or hate it, it was an integral part of the vision for this game since it was an idea sketched on a napkin.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9797
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Posted - 2015.02.16 16:48:27 -
[74] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. Oh, you kids and your lack of historical knowledge. CCP had avatar play in mind for this game since before they started coding it. Since before they were CCP in fact. The only reason they took so long to implement it was due to the lack of software/ hardware. Like WIS or hate it, it was an integral part of the vision for this game since it was an idea sketched on a napkin. Mr Epeen
He said "designed" not "in mind. Look at the technical hoops CCP had to jump through to get it work, and why CCP abandoned "atmospheric flight" as well. Even now CCP has to work around EVE's ancient and archaic code base.
I don't know why people expected a company (that then and now had almost insurmountable problems changing the way POSes work and who have spent the last 3-4 years building new tools (the new NPC creation system) to change PVe that hasn't been touched for 12 years) would be able to successfully retrofit walking in stations into this game. We were lucky to get wormholes and incursions with how hard EVE is to modify. |
Vyl Vit
1057
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Posted - 2015.02.16 18:10:34 -
[75] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I'll shout you a commiseratory beer in my CQ one day. I see...deny the reality and you'll appear to be the only voice...avatar play? That term doesn't even make sense. As for "I'll shout you..." Neither does that. Then, with this level of thought, the sheer congruity of it means you must win! I'll have my TIME Magazine with George Bush on one cover and Vlad the Impailer on the other duke it out while I'm in the crapper....avatar play. Right.
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Aston Martin DB5
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2015.02.16 20:43:56 -
[76] - Quote
If everyone could imagine them finishing WISGäó and merged Dust514-« to the PC (hypothetically speaking)..... Talk about a bone-er!=ƒæ+=ƒæî=ƒÿÇ |
DaReaper
Net 7
1785
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Posted - 2015.02.16 20:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
Honestly, i think there is a place for WiS in eve. I was excited for ambulation, that projected sounded awesome, but they bastardised it.
At this moment, i think it will only work with combining EVE, Valk and Legion, with WiS being either a seperate game that ties all together, or in eve that ties it all together. There are ways that it can be done and support it's self, be 100% optional, and up tot he type of experence that you want. Like I just want to play eve. Or i want to play eve and legion. Etc.
However, i think lots of other crap need to be fixed first. PI, POS, Sov, etc need to be addressed.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3760
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Posted - 2015.02.16 20:56:39 -
[78] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! ) Okay. With that post you've just got a spot on the ballot of my 10 accounts. (Unless it's sarcasm, in which case I'll just stick to voting corbexx and no one else lol) It is playfulness mixed with a bit of common sense. Relatively speaking, being able to spawn someone's avatar in your Captain's Quarters is pretty small, the assets all exists, it is just getting the avatars together and checking they are in the same station when the invitation is issued. My hunch feeling is that CCP doens't wnats to feed the WiSers. Give them multiplayer CQ, next will come demands for animations, emotes and God knows what else. And being frank, currently WiS' whole relevance for CCP is a team of TWO (2) developers... and some people oppose that formally in the CSM minutes. I think you're great, and not just because you're a fellow avatar lover, but why do you always have to post so pessimistically about the topic? It does get a little painful to see at times lol *hugz*
Why I am pessimistic? I lost the WiS war, that's why.
I already was bitttervet in 2011, and the WiS disaster did nothing to improve my mood about EVE and CCP. Also didn't improved as CCP Seagull became EP and her plans began taking shape.
CCP Seagull is wrong for the right reasons. And so EVE is walking the wrong way, for the perfectly right reasons. That will not end well.
Think of this, anyway, and forgive me if it is a tad too real for your optimistic atitude: CCP had WiS in a functional form with WoD. Everything was there -animations, assets, and even having multiple Carbon avatars on screen. It was so done that it was about to go beta testing when it was scuttled because the game itself (not the WiS assets) was a wreck.
And was scrapped. The personnel was fired. The office was shut down.
CCP shot WiS in the head when they cancelled WoD. And that's exactly how much interested is CCP with WiS.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37808
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Posted - 2015.02.16 23:36:51 -
[79] - Quote
You're doing it again.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37808
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Posted - 2015.02.16 23:44:38 -
[80] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:I'll shout you a commiseratory beer in my CQ one day. I see...deny the reality and you'll appear to be the only voice...avatar play? That term doesn't even make sense. As for "I'll shout you..." Neither does that. Then, with this level of thought, the sheer congruity of it means you must win! I'll have my TIME Magazine with George Bush on one cover and Vlad the Impailer on the other duke it out while I'm on the crapper....avatar play. Right. Telling someone you'll shout them something is an Australian term meaning you'll buy them something.
Now you've learned something today.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
939
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Posted - 2015.02.17 02:08:48 -
[81] - Quote
Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting.
(Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ)
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
5
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Posted - 2015.02.17 04:56:10 -
[82] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ)
That would be so cool. |
Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
449
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Posted - 2015.02.17 07:11:21 -
[83] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ)
But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak.
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
473
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:03:13 -
[84] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ) But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak.
Then it would be like the real political party where only the selected few are ever chosen to attend the fund raisers and the rest who do all the ground work never see the man in person. |
Cahir Ceallach
Jeb z Dzidy Northern Associates.
22
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Posted - 2015.02.17 12:56:14 -
[85] - Quote
When we have WIS and Planet Walking integrate in EVE we can explore and fight against NPC to get nice faction stuff for our ship. |
Kinroi Alari
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno
39
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Posted - 2015.02.17 22:10:27 -
[86] - Quote
Tangentially related: I do like the new clothing, even if only relevant for wear inside one's own CQ. (And I hate jump fatigue; win some and lose some, I guess!) |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
376
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Posted - 2015.02.18 00:06:59 -
[87] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:At the least, CCP could allow people to invite each other into their captain's quarters. Um no...before you know it, people would be wanting mechanic changes so they could engage in all manner of disgusting displays of homosexual debauchery and demanding we could buy sheep at Jita... |
DaReaper
Net 7
1787
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Posted - 2015.02.18 00:12:42 -
[88] - Quote
Kinroi Alari wrote: Tangentially related: I do like the new clothing, even if only relevant for wear inside one's own CQ. (And I hate jump fatigue; win some and lose some, I guess!)
if i was ccp this is how i'd pay for WiS work. Put out all the clothes we have that work, set reasonable or cheap prices. all the funds from that go to pay for a small team to add more WiS content. Which would sell more clothes, which would add more, etc. Essentially have the people interested in Space Barbie pay for it,
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
393548
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Posted - 2015.02.18 02:41:22 -
[89] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Kinroi Alari wrote: Tangentially related: I do like the new clothing, even if only relevant for wear inside one's own CQ. (And I hate jump fatigue; win some and lose some, I guess!)
if i was ccp this is how i'd pay for WiS work. Put out all the clothes we have that work, set reasonable or cheap prices. all the funds from that go to pay for a small team to add more WiS content. Which would sell more clothes, which would add more, etc. Essentially have the people interested in Space Barbie pay for it,
I approve of this.
I need more clothes.
Unlock all the clothes || My Fanclub
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
950
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Posted - 2015.02.18 07:03:26 -
[90] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ) But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak. Then it would be like the real political party where only the selected few are ever chosen to attend the fund raisers and the rest who do all the ground work never see the man in person. Hence, the inner circle comment.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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