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Woodman2
Templar Knights of EVE
2
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 18:06:08 -
[1] - Quote
I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
6028
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 18:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Woodman2
Templar Knights of EVE
2
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Posted - 2015.02.14 18:11:27 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks Abrazzar, makes sense. |
Vyl Vit
1049
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 19:18:05 -
[4] - Quote
I love seeing this subject line! Usually starts out kinda slow, then.... ...fizzles out altogether.
EDIT: Kinda like...WiS....wooOOOOoooOOOooooo.......
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7346
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:51:24 -
[5] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. It's a little more complicated than this.
The rundown...
- CCP spent more than a year developing it - While developing it, CCP basically ignored a whole bunch of "little" problems and imbalances throughout the game - the half-joking phrase "in 18 months" was coined from the above points (because that was how long we were told before CCP would get back to working on "other things") - CCP kept praising and hyping up WiS (Walking in Station) - Everyone hated the Dramiel.
- The Captain's Quarters was finally released. ------ We got one room (Minmatar) and no access to the rest of the station (because no content had actually been made). ------ It was both buggy and a major resource hog (some video cards overheated) ------ The Captain's Quarters was "not optional." In fact... the original station view was removed entirely. If you disabled the Captains Quarters you would be given a static image of your ship in the hanger (see: no station spinning). ------ The Captain's Quarters was revealed mostly to be a R&D thing for the future... and players were all being used as "beta-testers." - Microtransactions were introduced. - The Microtransaction items costed way more than "micro-amounts" (there was a Monocle that costed about $70 USD in PLEX... shirts and pants were no better). - A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game).
- Players revolted. ------ The forums were filled with flames and rage and ranting. ------ A "substantial" amount of players threatened to unsubscribe (I think it was 10% of the total playerbase) ------ Players went to Jita and began to shoot at a monument indefinitely to show their discontent. ------ The CSM was requested by CCP to come to Iceland and talk about the situation.
- CCP caved. ------- An apology was written by CCP's CEO himself (though, there are rumors that it may have been ghostwritten). ------- Players were promised that "gold ammo" type items would never become a thing. Microtransactions would be limited strictly to "vanity" stuff or things that were already available in some form (basically, "lateral benefits") ------- A new hanger view was made... just like the old one. ------- Captains Quarters could be disabled. ------- CCP promised to refocus their efforts on space related stuff and work on all the "little things" that players had been basically begging for for almost 2 years. - CCP silently put WiS on the backburner.
- The Crucible Expansion is released 6 months later. - Players rejoice. - Many things are fixed. - Some interesting things are introduced (i.e. Attack Battlecruisers) - Some old favorites were brought back (i.e. engine trails) - Subscriptions hit an all time high (at the time).
- Today... ------ WiS still brings up some bad memories. ------ It probably IS being worked on... somewhere in the background. ------ the biggest problem (that I see) is making it fit into the larger EVE universe without taking away from the space part of it.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7772
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 20:13:35 -
[6] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.
The arrogance of the forum people still astonishes me after all this time. If CCP caved every time you people had a tantrum this game would be radically altered on a daily basis.
The truth of the matter is that CCP developed a flawed system that was never going to be viable and used that particular player meltdown to back out of it with some dignity left. Much better to let the player base believe that they have some input in how the game should be than admit they wasted years developing a broken mechanic.
Win/win for CCP.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Serene Repose
2236
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 20:17:27 -
[7] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. The arrogance of the forum people still astonishes me after all this time. If CCP caved every time you people had a tantrum this game would be radically altered on a daily basis. The truth of the matter is that CCP developed a flawed system that was never going to be viable and used that particular player meltdown to back out of it with some dignity left. Much better to let the player base believe that they have some input in how the game should be than admit they wasted years developing a broken mechanic. Win/win for CCP. Mr Epeen The punchline is "certain" players still think they had something to do with it. YAY CSM! The one ring that binds us all!!!
Even if you take the above guy's "blow by blow" account (not you Sir Epeen) he's left out ship spinning was returned as an after thought. The "you can disable WiS" thing being slightly .... anyway, now it's digital legend.
Remember: CCP is a corporation. It doesn't make policy based on self-aggrandized meta-gamer egos. (read it and weep)
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Aston Martin DB5
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 20:19:50 -
[8] - Quote
They just didn't deliver what they promised many moons ago. What we received was one captain's quarter at the time (gallente if I recall) and when they first announced WIS they talked about social areas for players, bars, mini games etc etc. and the dev team was light years away from developing it. On top of that they just gave players CQ's instead of players earning through some game mechanic or purchasing it through in game isk. Poorly planned if you ask me but could of been amazing |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1980
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 20:24:54 -
[9] - Quote
Don't forget that they did develop and demo WiS tech that might not have been bad, but then threw it all away in favour of beta testing WoD. Incarna had nothing to do with WiS.
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Serene Repose
2236
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 20:27:52 -
[10] - Quote
Aston Martin DB5 wrote:They just didn't deliver what they promised many moons ago. What we received was one captain's quarter at the time (gallente if I recall) and when they first announced WIS they talked about social areas for players, bars, mini games etc etc. and the dev team was light years away from developing it. On top of that they just gave players CQ's instead of players earning through some game mechanic or purchasing it through in game isk. Poorly planned if you ask me but could of been amazing Could HAVE been amazing? People speculating on this forum isn't CCP saying they're doing something. All of the above talk was from this forum. There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen. NOR was the idea of purchasing the Officers Quarters ever mentioned or even considered. The idea, you think it's neat you buy something so you're special? Go play LOTRO.
All of this had to do with a few vocal idiots clamboring for something they think would be "cool" that most EVE players tried to slap down as silly, "Hey! Why can't we walk in stations?." It's the same people in LOTRO who want eagles for mounts, cause they saw a movie. "Hey. Devs OWE us THAT!" (Want an example of player suggestions leading a game to ruin, try LOTRO's mounted combat.) CCP never went THAT far. Geez. CCP brought in the new character creator, and toyed with the idea of expanding it - it never got off the drawing board.
Let's see, we have a few more mega-tons of bandwidth left for the revisionists of history. Y'all, what's the hold up?
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Hal Morsh
Icendus Corux Warp to Cyno.
253
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:28:35 -
[11] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:they wasted years developing a broken mechanic. Mr Epeen
I for one welcome our jovian overlords. Maybe they can figure out how to decontaminate the station for us.
CCP - Outpost code is scary.
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Cahir Ceallach
Jeb z Dzidy Northern Associates.
22
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:45:18 -
[12] - Quote
Maybe WIS is back, in this year we have 10 expansion in the year :) |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29872
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 22:41:20 -
[13] - Quote
We're getting WiS and it's called Legion. It's been sneaked under everyone's noses. Huzzah
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
491
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 23:46:49 -
[14] - Quote
Walking in stations. Waaaa haaaaa. Walking in stations. Funny.
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Dau Katari
Stormsong Scrapyards
20
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:19:25 -
[15] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Could HAVE been amazing? People speculating on this forum isn't CCP saying they're doing something. All of the above talk was from this forum. There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen.
. . .
Let's see, we have a few more mega-tons of bandwidth left for the revisionists of history. Y'all, what's the hold up?
These, from Fanfest 2008, should be under the weight limit.
Early Demo
CCP TorfiFrans Interview with MMORPG.com
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Aston Martin DB5
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 02:16:11 -
[16] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Aston Martin DB5 wrote:They just didn't deliver what they promised many moons ago. What we received was one captain's quarter at the time (gallente if I recall) and when they first announced WIS they talked about social areas for players, bars, mini games etc etc. and the dev team was light years away from developing it. On top of that they just gave players CQ's instead of players earning through some game mechanic or purchasing it through in game isk. Poorly planned if you ask me but could of been amazing Could HAVE been amazing? People speculating on this forum isn't CCP saying they're doing something. All of the above talk was from this forum. There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen. NOR was the idea of purchasing the Officers Quarters ever mentioned or even considered. The idea, you think it's neat you buy something so you're special? Go play LOTRO. All of this had to do with a few vocal idiots clamboring for something they think would be "cool" that most EVE players tried to slap down as silly, "Hey! Why can't we walk in stations?." It's the same people in LOTRO who want eagles for mounts, cause they saw a movie. "Hey. Devs OWE us THAT!" (Want an example of player suggestions leading a game to ruin, try LOTRO's mounted combat.) CCP never went THAT far. Geez. CCP brought in the new character creator, and toyed with the idea of expanding it - it never got off the drawing board. Let's see, we have a few more mega-tons of bandwidth left for the revisionists of history. Y'all, what's the hold up?
Slight overkill on the LOTRO analogy. And yes, they had pictures and even had a video of open areas and bars (social areas for players) when they first started talking about WIS and showed it to the players years ago. If I recall correctly they hinted at the idea of gambling with in-game isk with your so called 'game within a game' mechanic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E 2008 teaser vid all I could find. |
Kestrix
Industrial Renaissance
154
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 02:32:19 -
[17] - Quote
The PvP'ers in this game want to keep it small and have CCP pander totally to them. they are like spoilt children craving mummy's attention all the time and every time mummy tries to do some thing else they have a crying sissy fit until she mollifies them.
Walking in stations was something new, a breath of fresh air for eve online and an opportunity to make the game more appealing to a broader group of potential customers.
The people that objected to "walking in stations" are blind to the fact that making the game more appealing to a broader customer base swells the number of paying customers on the server both giving CCP increased revenue and them more characters to shoot.
I just hope that walking in stations was just put on hold and not canceled all together
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1476
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 02:40:29 -
[18] - Quote
CCP management has underestimated importance of RPG elements (avatars) while strategy/PvP part obviously isn't enough to keep players in EVE having 3+ competing spaceship games on the market. Each competitor either has avatars already or will add them during 2015 - EVE will be the only WiS-less spaceship game in 2016.
Could be nice to have even embryo form of WiS - common halls in stations with market and crafting terminals, direct trading interface between avatars, mission agents. |
Victoria Ramsay
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP Brave Collective
21
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 06:07:16 -
[19] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote: EVE will be the only WiS-less spaceship game in 2016. And only one with mandatory subscription fee.
Sad, but certainly the truth. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
922
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 06:13:42 -
[20] - Quote
At the least, CCP could allow people to invite each other into their captain's quarters.
Other than that, graphical assets could be uploaded by players and quality checked by CCP with the right tools in place.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Serene Repose
2244
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 06:18:34 -
[21] - Quote
Okay...was anybody in the loop when they did this to Sim City. Let our Sims visit each other...what do they do when they "get inside?" They "GET INSIDE"? Anybody in on that conversation when IT took place? What do we do when we "visit"? Wait, wait, wait....then we'll need items to display! Then, then...we'll need bookshelves, and hooks on the walls for trophies. I can already see people imagining their own holoreels showing on their coffee tables...that ship model does inspire, no?
This all sounds good. However, I'd rather play EVE. Thanks.
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Claud Tiberius
Fidelas Constans
96
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 06:47:41 -
[22] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. It's a little more complicated than this. The rundown... - CCP spent more than a year developing it - While developing it, CCP basically ignored a whole bunch of "little" problems and imbalances throughout the game - the half-joking phrase " in 18 months" was coined from the above points (because that was how long we were told before CCP would get back to working on "other things") - CCP kept praising and hyping up WiS (Walking in Station) - Everyone hated the Dramiel. - The Captain's Quarters was finally released. ------ We got one room (Minmatar) and no access to the rest of the station (because no content had actually been made). ------ It was both buggy and a major resource hog (some video cards overheated) ------ The Captain's Quarters was "not optional." In fact... the original station view was removed entirely. If you disabled the Captains Quarters you would be given a static image of your ship in the hanger (see: no station spinning). ------ The Captain's Quarters was revealed mostly to be a R&D thing for the future... and players were all being used as "beta-testers." - Microtransactions were introduced. - The Microtransaction items costed way more than "micro-amounts" (there was a Monocle that costed about $70 USD in PLEX... shirts and pants were no better). - A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game). - Players revolted. ------ The forums were filled with flames and rage and ranting. ------ A "substantial" amount of players threatened to unsubscribe (I think it was 10% of the total playerbase) ------ Players went to Jita and began to shoot at a monument indefinitely to show their discontent. - CCP stayed stubbornly (and infuriatingly) silent about the whole thing. ------ The CSM was requested by CCP to come to Iceland and talk about the situation. - CCP caved. ------- An apology was written by CCP's CEO himself (though, there are rumors that it may have been ghostwritten). ------- Players were promised that "gold ammo" type items would never become a thing. Microtransactions would be limited strictly to "vanity" stuff or things that were already available in some form (basically, "lateral benefits") ------- A new hanger view was made... just like the old one. ------- Captains Quarters could be disabled. ------- CCP promised to refocus their efforts on space related stuff and work on all the "little things" that players had been basically begging for for almost 2 years. - CCP silently put WiS on the backburner. - The Crucible Expansion was released 6 months later. - Players rejoice. - Many things are fixed. - Some interesting things are introduced (i.e. Attack Battlecruisers) - Some old favorites were brought back (i.e. engine trails) - Subscriptions hit an all time high (at the time). - Today... ------ WiS still brings up some bad memories. ------ It probably IS being worked on... somewhere in the background. ------ the biggest problem (that I see) is making it fit into the larger EVE universe without taking away from the space part of it. tldr; it was a whole combination of events that led to an explosion of frustration that had been building for some time. People are still touchy about the whole thing. The horror!!!
Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
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Flamespar
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
1292
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 08:10:23 -
[23] - Quote
Walking in stations was stopped as there were no obvious or announced plans for new gameplay.
Now excuse me whilst I look forward to being able to access new space via player built stargates for which there are no obvious or announced plans for new gameplay.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29897
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 10:05:24 -
[24] - Quote
I've bugged CCP Explorer on Twitter about making Aura an entity in CQ, who walks around and answers questions, perhaps narrates show info text. I think the talking head version of Aura is under developed. Obviously CCP intended to use that trope, of a holographic info-woman.
Without rehashing the WiS debate, would a physical Aura be acceptable to you?
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1479
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 10:34:48 -
[25] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Without rehashing the WiS debate, would a physical Aura be acceptable to you? No need to invent the wheel: out of all games the best holographic info-companion is in Defiance, it would be enough just to copy its behavior and outlook (hi-tech ghost). However I imagine it will be extremely expensive to create (by CCP's standards): it requires articulation and speech-related animations - not to trigger uncanny valley. |
Aston Martin DB5
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 16:10:15 -
[26] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Without rehashing the WiS debate, would a physical Aura be acceptable to you? No need to invent the wheel: out of all games the best holographic info-companion is in Defiance, it would be enough just to copy its behavior and outlook (hi-tech ghost). However I imagine it will be extremely expensive to create (by CCP's standards): it requires articulation and speech-related animations - not to trigger uncanny valley.
Just downloaded Defiance. Can't believe the game is 16GB |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
496
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 16:20:44 -
[27] - Quote
Walking in stations. I'm sure devs are leaping to read this, pen in hand! Gee. Let's have Aura show up in everybody's OQ. It'd only cost $25 mill, give or take. I'll bet Goonwaffle would just donate such a paltry amount! Chump change, right?
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Vyl Vit
1052
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Posted - 2015.02.15 16:24:35 -
[28] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Walking in stations. I'm sure devs are leaping to read this, pen in hand! Gee. Let's have Aura show up in everybody's OQ. It'd only cost $25 mill, give or take. I'll bet Goonwaffle would just donate such a paltry amount! Chump change, right? Now. Given that figure, just continue this thread so we all know who you are. And remember, donations ARE welcome. You do intend to pay for this ride....RIGHT? Hey man. It's an "entitlement."
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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DaReaper
Net 7
1785
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 19:21:24 -
[29] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Aston Martin DB5 wrote:They just didn't deliver what they promised many moons ago. What we received was one captain's quarter at the time (gallente if I recall) and when they first announced WIS they talked about social areas for players, bars, mini games etc etc. and the dev team was light years away from developing it. On top of that they just gave players CQ's instead of players earning through some game mechanic or purchasing it through in game isk. Poorly planned if you ask me but could of been amazing Could HAVE been amazing? People speculating on this forum isn't CCP saying they're doing something. All of the above talk was from this forum. There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen. NOR was the idea of purchasing the Officers Quarters ever mentioned or even considered. The idea, you think it's neat you buy something so you're special? Go play LOTRO. All of this had to do with a few vocal idiots clamboring for something they think would be "cool" that most EVE players tried to slap down as silly, "Hey! Why can't we walk in stations?." It's the same people in LOTRO who want eagles for mounts, cause they saw a movie. "Hey. Devs OWE us THAT!" (Want an example of player suggestions leading a game to ruin, try LOTRO's mounted combat.) CCP never went THAT far. Geez. CCP brought in the new character creator, and toyed with the idea of expanding it - it never got off the drawing board. Let's see, we have a few more mega-tons of bandwidth left for the revisionists of history. Y'all, what's the hold up?
Except as already noted, you are incorrect. In Fan Fest 07 they were showing the ambulation project, which had all kinds of neat ideas attached to it (make your own clothes and sell them, open bars, gambling placing, corp hangers where the ceo or alliance leader are recognized, holographic maps to help plan battles) the list went on but they scrapped it. WiS if tied into valk, and legion could work really well. But for now its dead.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9779
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 20:36:44 -
[30] - Quote
Victoria Ramsay wrote:Tarpedo wrote: EVE will be the only WiS-less spaceship game in 2016. And only one with mandatory subscription fee. Sad, but certainly the truth. If wis was any kind of important, EVE would have suffered years ago at the hands of SWG, SWTOR and Star Trek Online. Its not and never has been. "walking around" in an immersion factor, EVE for the most part isn't an "Immersion game" except for it's minority role players faction. It isn't just an EVE thing, sandbox games have always been less appealing to the RPG gamer types than themepark games have.
Personally I never really cared much about it till the WiS sycophancy started. The "WiS community" is for me a big reason why I think the whole thing is a bad idea. If you types would stop predicting the end of EVE because CCP isn't giving you something that you want, things might be different. |
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Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
711
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 22:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
You know what, I would love to see WIS become an actual thing as a technical achievement.
What i wouldn't want to see is the forum explosion form all the people that talk on everyone elses behalf. The primary issue is that if the WIS was on top of the usual updates no one would bat an eyelid if the resources used by CCP were transparent. |
Serene Repose
2248
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 22:30:30 -
[32] - Quote
Okay. Thanks for all the corrections. Not that I'd incite a riot just to get a barstool, noooooo. The trend I see here is a lot of folks that don't know the difference from presentations meant to impress the gaming world, and real life. Those of us who do are well aware of the Thunderthreads which follow every Fanfest. I'm a fan of those, as well as the game.
Hey....it's been four months now, and what they "promised" us at Fanfest....etc., etc. I thought there was a problem. My bad.
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Seven Koskanaiken
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1409
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 22:38:58 -
[33] - Quote
Why is this such a technical challenge? Hasn't "avatar in 3D environment" been the basis of pretty much all games since 1992? |
Sentry 10
Stellar Regional Survey
26
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 22:46:32 -
[34] - Quote
If this is a petition then consider it signed.
I want WiS |
Serene Repose
2248
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 22:54:29 -
[35] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Why is this such a technical challenge? Hasn't "avatar in 3D environment" been the basis of pretty much all games since 1992? Technical challenge? Nobody said it was a technical challenge. Do whuh??
Sentry 10 wrote:If this is a petition then consider it signed. I want WiS ROFL. It's a dead issue. Vote all you want. I want to own California!
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3755
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 23:14:50 -
[36] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:[quote=Aston Martin DB5](...) There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen. (...)
You missed the news, but that's exactly what CCP was saying and doing in 2007.
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/previews/2611-EVE-Online-War-on-the-Impossible-Part-3-Ambulation
(Everyone interested in WiS should) read that and cry. Cry if you still have any tear left to cry for Ambulation/WiS/Incarna/The game EVE will never last long enough to become.
Because that article still stands true. EVE still is a males-only game with little appeal to 90% of gamers, male and female, for no good reason since additional gameplay could be added as long as it didn't interfered with the FiS serious business -or could be developed to interfere with it in the same way as pew pew interferes with everything else.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Seven Koskanaiken
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1409
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 23:14:56 -
[37] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Why is this such a technical challenge? Hasn't "avatar in 3D environment" been the basis of pretty much all games since 1992? Technical challenge? Nobody said it was a technical challenge. Do whuh?? Sentry 10 wrote:If this is a petition then consider it signed. I want WiS ROFL. It's a dead issue. Vote all you want. I want to own California!
Well the way people speak it seems to take a hundred million dollars and 3 years of dev time. |
Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
5
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 00:59:22 -
[38] - Quote
I'd love to see walking in stations. It would a whole new layer to the multiplayer experience. It would be fun to trade with other players and actually see their avatars. Or to mingle with the fleet mates on teamspeak and see our avatars at the bar while we wait for the fleet to form up. A lot of players spend a lot of time in stations. I think walking in stations would be really good, as long as it is worked on in the background while other stuff is still being done up front. |
Allant Doran
Patriot Security Services New Signature
62
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 01:07:38 -
[39] - Quote
My only problem with WiS was that it was given SO much attention over all other things. If CCP said it was coming, bigger and better, but that they had a small team, working bit by bit on it, and that nothing else would be sacrificed to push WiS harder then I'd be totally okay with WiS.
Some people hate it just on the principal that it's cool to hate on WiS these days. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
17166
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 02:07:17 -
[40] - Quote
Honestly, I love the way EVE is going right now- especially story-wise and with current happenings.
If, instead of being the forefront of development, fun little extra WIS things could come to us bit-by-bit (more places, customization of the CQ with furniture [which has a section in the files!], meeting other pilots "in person" either in open areas, bars, in-person agents, AURA, visiting other CQs) there's a lot of possibility for fun while keeping the core of EVE at the helm.
Also, there seems to be a "jog" animation for us in the files, if I see it correctly.
But again- if WIS was a fun extra thing like ship painting and our clothes, then I'd be all for it- so long as it's never the "main" thing.
Also, the hate is unwarranted at this point- everyone's hopping on the train outright and it's very strange
A City made of Wood is built in the forest
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven.
Jovian Proverb GÖâ
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37681
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Posted - 2015.02.16 02:16:13 -
[41] - Quote
You and your files spying mastery. Please never change.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:everyone's hopping on the train outright and it's very strange Well, maybe not everyone, but yeah isn't it beautiful.
I think EVE's sociology regarding this topic has shifted dramatically over the past two years. There are still some die hard haters, but by and large much of the stigma attatched to things avatar-related has gone. Things are being fed to us slowly and gently, and it's evolving naturally as a result of growing interest. These days it's become okay to enjoy avatars a bit, whereas three years ago you'd be driven from the forums with torches and pitchforks for even mentioning it.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
17168
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 02:17:35 -
[42] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I think EVE's sociology regarding this topic has shifted dramatically over the past two years. There are still some die hard haters, but by and large much of the stigma attatched to things avatar-related has gone. Things are being fed to us slowly and gently, and it's evolving naturally as a result of growing interest. These days it's become okay to enjoy avatars a bit, whereas three years ago you'd be driven from the forums with torches and pitchforks for even mentioning it.
Exactly haha- as long there isn't another "greed is good" fiasco or it becomes too much of "the big thing", then there may not be too much of a problem
Also, not to suggest anything or say it'd be cost effective or anything: but it would have been really cool if the WoD developers had been turned to WIS after it closed down. Atlanta would have been the WIS HQ and Reykjavik would be the EVE HQ.
A City made of Wood is built in the forest
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven.
Jovian Proverb GÖâ
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
926
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 04:42:46 -
[43] - Quote
There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters:
1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! )
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37711
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 04:51:15 -
[44] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! ) Okay. With that post you've just got a spot on the ballot of my 10 accounts.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3147
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 05:04:14 -
[45] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. And now, WIS is itself an abandoned feature. Many are waiting for it to be iterated. After all, you can never fix everything else first, because we will never agree it's all been fixed. One player's fix is anothers big mistake. Maybe we need a little development balance.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1400
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 05:16:20 -
[46] - Quote
Hating on WIS at the time was justifiable it sucked.
Still hating on WIS 6 years later is seen by many players as a way to get Epeen and show what a leet hardcore PvP player they are.
I definitely know several female gamers that dismissed EVE the instant they realized you cannot really get out of your ship. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
927
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 05:50:40 -
[47] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! ) Okay. With that post you've just got a spot on the ballot of my 10 accounts. (Unless it's sarcasm, in which case I'll just stick to voting corbexx and no one else lol) It is playfulness mixed with a bit of common sense.
Relatively speaking, being able to spawn someone's avatar in your Captain's Quarters is pretty small, the assets all exists, it is just getting the avatars together and checking they are in the same station when the invitation is issued.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
446
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 06:45:09 -
[48] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I hate to be flippant about the topic, but the title of the article is correct: CCP declared war on the impossible and almost lost.
There is nothing wrong with the concept of WIS, the implementation of the system was awful enough to stop CCP dead in its tracks. Most companies are reticent to repeat previous mistakes and I doubt CCP will be keen to touch that hornets nest until they know their bottom line is secure for another few years.
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Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
446
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Posted - 2015.02.16 06:49:08 -
[49] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! ) Okay. With that post you've just got a spot on the ballot of my 10 accounts. (Unless it's sarcasm, in which case I'll just stick to voting corbexx and no one else lol) It is playfulness mixed with a bit of common sense. Relatively speaking, being able to spawn someone's avatar in your Captain's Quarters is pretty small, the assets all exists, it is just getting the avatars together and checking they are in the same station when the invitation is issued.
How much extra wok does a graphics card have to do if there are two avatars in the same captains quarters?
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3757
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Posted - 2015.02.16 07:54:07 -
[50] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! ) Okay. With that post you've just got a spot on the ballot of my 10 accounts. (Unless it's sarcasm, in which case I'll just stick to voting corbexx and no one else lol) It is playfulness mixed with a bit of common sense. Relatively speaking, being able to spawn someone's avatar in your Captain's Quarters is pretty small, the assets all exists, it is just getting the avatars together and checking they are in the same station when the invitation is issued.
My hunch feeling is that CCP doens't wnats to feed the WiSers. Give them multiplayer CQ, next will come demands for animations, emotes and God knows what else. And being frank, currently WiS' whole relevance for CCP is a team of TWO (2) developers... and some people oppose that formally in the CSM minutes.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29925
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 08:33:52 -
[51] - Quote
I want to believe Xander was joking when he said that bit about avatar development.
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Josef Djugashvilis
2884
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 08:35:30 -
[52] - Quote
Waliking in Stations, an idea without content.
This is not a signature.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29925
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Posted - 2015.02.16 08:40:02 -
[53] - Quote
not unlike your post
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Josef Djugashvilis
2884
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Posted - 2015.02.16 08:57:53 -
[54] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:not unlike your post
Perhaps you would care to list the content we missed out on from the binning of WiS?
My post has more content than WiS ever had
This is not a signature.
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37724
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 09:17:52 -
[55] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! ) Okay. With that post you've just got a spot on the ballot of my 10 accounts. (Unless it's sarcasm, in which case I'll just stick to voting corbexx and no one else lol) It is playfulness mixed with a bit of common sense. Relatively speaking, being able to spawn someone's avatar in your Captain's Quarters is pretty small, the assets all exists, it is just getting the avatars together and checking they are in the same station when the invitation is issued. My hunch feeling is that CCP doens't wnats to feed the WiSers. Give them multiplayer CQ, next will come demands for animations, emotes and God knows what else. And being frank, currently WiS' whole relevance for CCP is a team of TWO (2) developers... and some people oppose that formally in the CSM minutes. I think you're great, and not just because you're a fellow avatar lover, but why do you always have to post so pessimistically about the topic? It does get a little painful to see at times lol *hugz*
Avatar stuff is trickling in and doesn't look like stopping anytime soon. There are Devs dedicated to it, even if only a couple. And with folks like corbexx (and candidates like Jenshae) we are being represented and strides forward, no matter how small, have been made. They will keep being made if we vote for people like them who don't mind spending a little of their time taking this stuff seriously on our behalf. From what I've seen the Devs are receptive, we just need to keep those strides to a realistic distance.
Even just a shared CQ in the context Jen talks about would be an enormous step forward, and in itself a catalyst for more future change, so let's be optimistic instead, take baby steps and when we have opportunities like the CSM elections use our votes to put more pro-avatar development CSMs in office.
Good times.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
55
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Posted - 2015.02.16 09:21:23 -
[56] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:EVE will be the only WiS-less spaceship game in 2016. And only one with mandatory subscription fee.
EVE will be the only spaceship game making solid profits in 2016 - and the only one still around in 2020
If a game is good, people will pay to play it. If a game is less than good, only very few people will play it, even for free. Syncaine's challenge to name a succesful F2P MMO still stands. |
Vyl Vit
1055
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Posted - 2015.02.16 09:22:59 -
[57] - Quote
No one disputes it'd be an enormous step. Claiming it's "forward" is just your opinion. It isn't widely shared by THIS player base. OF the enormous steps that need to be taken, and should be taken, is this ONE of them? Not likely, no matter how dear to your heart it may be. You're the eye-candy fan? Fine. Info panels still rule this game. Praise be the text!
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37724
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Posted - 2015.02.16 09:30:43 -
[58] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:No one disputes it'd be an enormous step. Claiming it's "forward" is just your opinion. It isn't widely shared by THIS player base. OF the enormous steps that need to be taken, and should be taken, is this ONE of them? Not likely, no matter how dear to your heart it may be. You're the eye-candy fan? Fine. Info panels still rule this game. Praise be the text! Sure, vote for anti-avatar development CSMs then, as is your right.
Or anti-highsec, or wormhole, or faction war, or indy or whatever it is that hits your buttons in EVE.
I have been, and it's been fantastic to see results. That's what I call steps forward. While we're on the way forward I'll keep enjoying EVE as I love it right now, murdering folks in wormholes and spending my downtime writing and RPing. Praise be to the text!
I'll shout you a commiseratory beer in my CQ one day.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
471
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 10:41:06 -
[59] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! )
This and also reason I would love to have WiS and also because of immersion in that there's more then just a pod and a space ship in a 2 dimensional 3 dimensional world of submarines. However if WiS or the servers would actually support multiplayer in any easy to fit manner I think CCP would had done it by now and considering the way EVE is built on a top of an SQL-database I consider even the current WiS as a remarkable achievement.
They could however add some small things such a 'video conference' for that screen in the CQ or at least let you watch p**n err your own videos from it while you w**k I mean station trade all day long. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
727
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Posted - 2015.02.16 11:25:49 -
[60] - Quote
Walking in Stations is down and bleeding out, all the plasters in the world can't fix that shotgun wound to the gut. It either needs major surgery, or nailing into its box and dumping in the ground.
Since the Incarna debacle I've always maintained the WiS advocates would be better off campaigning for the Ambulation files to be fetched out of whatever bin or dusty basement they were stashed in, and everything to do with WiS set on fire and forgotten, than to pine for that life-saving surgery that isn't coming. Yes, its technologically arguably a step back, and people would have to stomoach their distaste of losing their hyper-detailed, but utterly worthless avatars. But instituting Ambulation, and using it as a base to bring things forward from, is better than fishing around hopefully in the spilled intestines of WiS looking for a miracle. |
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
613
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Posted - 2015.02.16 12:15:48 -
[61] - Quote
EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. So when you try to tack it on you run into the problem that CCP ran into - it serves no purpose. You can try to change aspects of EVE that would then make the game require interfacing via avatar. This is sure to upset a whole lot of people and possibly have disastrous results on established game play. Or you can make interfacing via avatar an option - request a lvl 4 mission as normal or do it via avatar by walking up to a mission-giving terminal for example. This is useless and no one will bother using the terminal for avatars because it will take longer. Why bother walking into a player-run clothing store rather than just buying their clothing off the market from the comfort of your space ship?
Sure, some EVE players might sometimes enjoy standing around in a bar chatting with each other in person. Does that justify the expense in time, money, and man hours to develop? Probably not. The existing team seems to already have their plates full. Updating and redesigning the spaceships is an ever ongoing task. Then there are all of the other objects in space, stations and gates and stuff. The stations all now need to be updated with PBR, and CCP wants to add activity around stations in busy systems for example. Avatar play would require the same constant updating over the years. Look at those early WiS videos. They seemed impressive back then, now they already look dated. They would at least require updated textures and lighting. There would need to be a team of artists and programmers focused just on maintaining WiS and all of its assets. Yet CCP has only been downsizing since Incarna. Two artists are left working on clothes, that is the WiS team now.
CCP can't just tack on a thrown together 3D chat room and forget about it. If it looks like crap or plays like crap then that reflects badly on all of EVE. When CQ starts looking dated I wouldn't be surprised to see it removed.
A WiS that is worth a crap would end up being its own game requiring its own budget and its own team. CCP realized this and so they did exactly that - put together a new team and made DUST. Unfortunately they didn't release it on the platform their player base is on. And it's a FPS, not particularly interesting, to me, and maybe not to the average EVE player either. Additionally it looks like they made it a PITA just like EVE, with skills and gear and money whatnot. That is not what I am looking for if I want to play a FPS. I'm guessing that is not what most FPS players are looking for. And a FPS in general is probably not what WiS advocates are looking for. Not sure who CCP was trying to cater to with DUST. Legion will be on PC at least but other than that it seems it will be the same game as DUST? It might have been cool to see a planet in Thera opened up for exploration on foot and ground vehicles. A massive open landscape free for all like DayZ on a MMO-sized world. Go down in a shuttle hunting for goods then try to slip them back to empire. It would have to be split up into multiple shards though. Instanced. Naughty word when it comes to EVE. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7934
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 12:38:53 -
[62] - Quote
If only CCP would not go into WoD development and get everyone working on WiS and EVE altogether, it would be like SC but better.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9783
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 13:36:12 -
[63] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. So when you try to tack it on you run into the problem that CCP ran into - it serves no purpose. You can try to change aspects of EVE that would then make the game require interfacing via avatar. This is sure to upset a whole lot of people and possibly have disastrous results on established game play. Or you can make interfacing via avatar an option - request a lvl 4 mission as normal or do it via avatar by walking up to a mission-giving terminal for example. This is useless and no one will bother using the terminal for avatars because it will take longer. Why bother walking into a player-run clothing store rather than just buying their clothing off the market from the comfort of your space ship?
Sure, some EVE players might sometimes enjoy standing around in a bar chatting with each other in person. Does that justify the expense in time, money, and man hours to develop? Probably not. The existing team seems to already have their plates full. Updating and redesigning the spaceships is an ever ongoing task. Then there are all of the other objects in space, stations and gates and stuff. The stations all now need to be updated with PBR, and CCP wants to add activity around stations in busy systems for example. Avatar play would require the same constant updating over the years. Look at those early WiS videos. They seemed impressive back then, now they already look dated. They would at least require updated textures and lighting. There would need to be a team of artists and programmers focused just on maintaining WiS and all of its assets. Yet CCP has only been downsizing since Incarna. Two artists are left working on clothes, that is the WiS team now.
CCP can't just tack on a thrown together 3D chat room and forget about it. If it looks like crap or plays like crap then that reflects badly on all of EVE. When CQ starts looking dated I wouldn't be surprised to see it removed.
A WiS that is worth a crap would end up being its own game requiring its own budget and its own team. CCP realized this and so they did exactly that - put together a new team and made DUST. Unfortunately they didn't release it on the platform their player base is on. And it's a FPS, not particularly interesting, to me, and maybe not to the average EVE player either. Additionally it looks like they made it a PITA just like EVE, with skills and gear and money whatnot. That is not what I am looking for if I want to play a FPS. I'm guessing that is not what most FPS players are looking for. And a FPS in general is probably not what WiS advocates are looking for. Not sure who CCP was trying to cater to with DUST. Legion will be on PC at least but other than that it seems it will be the same game as DUST? It might have been cool to see a planet in Thera opened up for exploration on foot and ground vehicles. A massive open landscape free for all like DayZ on a MMO-sized world. Go down in a shuttle hunting for goods then try to slip them back to empire. It would have to be split up into multiple shards though. Instanced. Naughty word when it comes to EVE.
Perfectly well said (I bolded the best part lol). Except you used the word "Instanced", that's -2 cool points lol.
Funny thing is, it's not Just EVE where this happens. I played TANKS for a while and would visit various player run forums and there was always that fringe "Why can't we have INFANTRY" group lurking around every corner (a group never satisfied with then answer "this is a tank game" lol).
In Mech 3, Mech4 and MWO (ie "MECH Games") the same group exists, but they aren't just screaming for Elementals, but also Tanks, Aerospace fighters and Dropships.
To each his own of course, but personally i've never seen the allure of playing as an 'avatar'. I AM an avatar. What I tend to like to doing in a game is play as things I'm not (Mechs, Tanks, Jet Fighters, Asymmetrical Space Submarines ...I mean spaceships in EVE, etc). When I want to do something involving legs I tend to ...go outside.. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
936
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 13:44:36 -
[64] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:No one disputes it'd be an enormous step. Claiming it's "forward" is just your opinion. It isn't widely shared by THIS player base. OF the enormous steps that need to be taken, and should be taken, is this ONE of them? Not likely, no matter how dear to your heart it may be. You're the eye-candy fan? Fine. Info panels still rule this game. Praise be the text! ... but think of the childr- - I mean the girls! ... and the G.I.R.L.S.
As to whether multiple avatars can be supported, largely that depends on your computer. If you are running around your CQ with max settings turned on then in all probability you can definitely have two avatars running around in low settings.
Our graphics cards have come about eight generations futher on since Incarna.
The problem was not that the database had a problem, there is hardly any data involved. The problem is the design of the avatars and the CQs. I suspect there are too many nodes, skeleton attachment points, the textures are too high, code not optimised and there is or was some flaw in the code that ran a loop, which over heated our graphics cards. (... and all the database tells your client is how you vary, e.g. make the nose 5% shorter and eyes 10 points smaller, it already has all the heavy lifting data on your computer).
I lost a GTX 8800 Nvidiot card to Incarna, I checked the heat and it was fine, came back a few hours later and it was dead. I am still oh just slightly, mildly irritated about that. Especially since they didn't acknowledge it in any way at the least.
However, we have better systems, with better cooling, there are tools to check your FPS, you can change your settings, maybe there needs to be some load detection involved where it turns settings down?
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
285
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 13:47:46 -
[65] - Quote
I never understand the whole WiS thing. It is like the argument i had with a SC guy about a space toilet in that game increasing immersion. Oh and it wasn't even a zero g toilet. Getting in and out of space ships and *waiting* always *waiting* to do the thing you want to do (ie get in a different one and undock or use the market) gets old very very fast (and going for a crap? really? and floating feckle matter? ). There will always be a lot of people that will want it turned off.
It is like learning to land in Elite dangerous. It completely destroys immersion because it is really stupid that in the future with space ships, its harder to land or use a autopilot than 60 years ago.
And someone a page or 5 back said something about free to play whatever. God please don't do free to play. They suck, and they are *not* free. And no a fixed price for life also doesn't work. Server and bandwidth cost per month and the only way to have single shard that is around for more than a few years is with subscriptions.
What Eve should be is the best *EVE* there is. There are plenty of other games out their that do that other stuff. They are not eve. That is fine. Lets just not try and make eve them.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9789
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 14:30:25 -
[66] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote: What Eve should be is the best *EVE* there is. There are plenty of other games out their that do that other stuff. They are not eve. That is fine. Lets just not try and make eve them.
NO! NEGATIVE!
There can not be a uniquqe sandbox set in space game. ALL must conform (thus letting us walk around to do stuff that for 12 years we could do just by sitting in our space ship and clikcing!!). Resistance is futile!
/sarcasm |
Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
5
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 14:57:36 -
[67] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind.
Eve was created over 10 years ago. There are likely countless things in the game right now that weren't in the original plans. Times are changing, and if EVE is going to stay relevant, it too, needs to change.
The rest of that was TL;DR |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16122
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:04:03 -
[68] - Quote
How many times does a question have to be asked and get the same answer before optimistic persistence turns into blind stupidity?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9793
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 15:10:11 -
[69] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:How many times does a question have to be asked and get the same answer before optimistic persistence turns into blind stupidity?
42 |
Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
5
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 15:10:52 -
[70] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:How many times does a question have to be asked and get the same answer before optimistic persistence turns into blind stupidity?
When were you when WIS was died?? |
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1984
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 15:14:41 -
[71] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:The PvP'ers in this game You mean... everyone?
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
616
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 15:47:40 -
[72] - Quote
Boozbaz wrote: Eve was created over 10 years ago. There are likely countless things in the game right now that weren't in the original plans.
There have been many things added, and they all revolve around spaceships and/or spreadsheets, and utilize the existing framework of the game.
The rest of my post which you didn't have the attention span to read stated that an avatar-based game would require its own dedicated team and budget if it were to be worth a damn. CCP seems to agree, having formed a dedicated team to create DUST, which didn't seem to be a critical hit exactly. They may be refactoring it on PC as Legion and allowing EVE players to jump into it, but I don't think this is the kind of game most WiS advocates want. I don't think most passionate WiS advocates even know what they want. Kind of hard for CCP to develop for that. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7781
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 16:34:01 -
[73] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind.
Oh, you kids and your lack of historical knowledge.
CCP had avatar play in mind for this game since before they started coding it. Since before they were CCP in fact. The only reason they took so long to implement it was due to the lack of software/ hardware.
Like WIS or hate it, it was an integral part of the vision for this game since it was an idea sketched on a napkin.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9797
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 16:48:27 -
[74] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. Oh, you kids and your lack of historical knowledge. CCP had avatar play in mind for this game since before they started coding it. Since before they were CCP in fact. The only reason they took so long to implement it was due to the lack of software/ hardware. Like WIS or hate it, it was an integral part of the vision for this game since it was an idea sketched on a napkin. Mr Epeen
He said "designed" not "in mind. Look at the technical hoops CCP had to jump through to get it work, and why CCP abandoned "atmospheric flight" as well. Even now CCP has to work around EVE's ancient and archaic code base.
I don't know why people expected a company (that then and now had almost insurmountable problems changing the way POSes work and who have spent the last 3-4 years building new tools (the new NPC creation system) to change PVe that hasn't been touched for 12 years) would be able to successfully retrofit walking in stations into this game. We were lucky to get wormholes and incursions with how hard EVE is to modify. |
Vyl Vit
1057
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 18:10:34 -
[75] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I'll shout you a commiseratory beer in my CQ one day. I see...deny the reality and you'll appear to be the only voice...avatar play? That term doesn't even make sense. As for "I'll shout you..." Neither does that. Then, with this level of thought, the sheer congruity of it means you must win! I'll have my TIME Magazine with George Bush on one cover and Vlad the Impailer on the other duke it out while I'm in the crapper....avatar play. Right.
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Aston Martin DB5
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 20:43:56 -
[76] - Quote
If everyone could imagine them finishing WISGäó and merged Dust514-« to the PC (hypothetically speaking)..... Talk about a bone-er!=ƒæ+=ƒæî=ƒÿÇ |
DaReaper
Net 7
1785
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 20:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
Honestly, i think there is a place for WiS in eve. I was excited for ambulation, that projected sounded awesome, but they bastardised it.
At this moment, i think it will only work with combining EVE, Valk and Legion, with WiS being either a seperate game that ties all together, or in eve that ties it all together. There are ways that it can be done and support it's self, be 100% optional, and up tot he type of experence that you want. Like I just want to play eve. Or i want to play eve and legion. Etc.
However, i think lots of other crap need to be fixed first. PI, POS, Sov, etc need to be addressed.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3760
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 20:56:39 -
[78] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! ) Okay. With that post you've just got a spot on the ballot of my 10 accounts. (Unless it's sarcasm, in which case I'll just stick to voting corbexx and no one else lol) It is playfulness mixed with a bit of common sense. Relatively speaking, being able to spawn someone's avatar in your Captain's Quarters is pretty small, the assets all exists, it is just getting the avatars together and checking they are in the same station when the invitation is issued. My hunch feeling is that CCP doens't wnats to feed the WiSers. Give them multiplayer CQ, next will come demands for animations, emotes and God knows what else. And being frank, currently WiS' whole relevance for CCP is a team of TWO (2) developers... and some people oppose that formally in the CSM minutes. I think you're great, and not just because you're a fellow avatar lover, but why do you always have to post so pessimistically about the topic? It does get a little painful to see at times lol *hugz*
Why I am pessimistic? I lost the WiS war, that's why.
I already was bitttervet in 2011, and the WiS disaster did nothing to improve my mood about EVE and CCP. Also didn't improved as CCP Seagull became EP and her plans began taking shape.
CCP Seagull is wrong for the right reasons. And so EVE is walking the wrong way, for the perfectly right reasons. That will not end well.
Think of this, anyway, and forgive me if it is a tad too real for your optimistic atitude: CCP had WiS in a functional form with WoD. Everything was there -animations, assets, and even having multiple Carbon avatars on screen. It was so done that it was about to go beta testing when it was scuttled because the game itself (not the WiS assets) was a wreck.
And was scrapped. The personnel was fired. The office was shut down.
CCP shot WiS in the head when they cancelled WoD. And that's exactly how much interested is CCP with WiS.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37808
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 23:36:51 -
[79] - Quote
You're doing it again.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37808
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 23:44:38 -
[80] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:I'll shout you a commiseratory beer in my CQ one day. I see...deny the reality and you'll appear to be the only voice...avatar play? That term doesn't even make sense. As for "I'll shout you..." Neither does that. Then, with this level of thought, the sheer congruity of it means you must win! I'll have my TIME Magazine with George Bush on one cover and Vlad the Impailer on the other duke it out while I'm on the crapper....avatar play. Right. Telling someone you'll shout them something is an Australian term meaning you'll buy them something.
Now you've learned something today.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
939
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 02:08:48 -
[81] - Quote
Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting.
(Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ)
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
5
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 04:56:10 -
[82] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ)
That would be so cool. |
Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
449
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 07:11:21 -
[83] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ)
But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak.
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
473
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 09:03:13 -
[84] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ) But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak.
Then it would be like the real political party where only the selected few are ever chosen to attend the fund raisers and the rest who do all the ground work never see the man in person. |
Cahir Ceallach
Jeb z Dzidy Northern Associates.
22
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 12:56:14 -
[85] - Quote
When we have WIS and Planet Walking integrate in EVE we can explore and fight against NPC to get nice faction stuff for our ship. |
Kinroi Alari
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno
39
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 22:10:27 -
[86] - Quote
Tangentially related: I do like the new clothing, even if only relevant for wear inside one's own CQ. (And I hate jump fatigue; win some and lose some, I guess!) |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
376
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 00:06:59 -
[87] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:At the least, CCP could allow people to invite each other into their captain's quarters. Um no...before you know it, people would be wanting mechanic changes so they could engage in all manner of disgusting displays of homosexual debauchery and demanding we could buy sheep at Jita... |
DaReaper
Net 7
1787
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 00:12:42 -
[88] - Quote
Kinroi Alari wrote: Tangentially related: I do like the new clothing, even if only relevant for wear inside one's own CQ. (And I hate jump fatigue; win some and lose some, I guess!)
if i was ccp this is how i'd pay for WiS work. Put out all the clothes we have that work, set reasonable or cheap prices. all the funds from that go to pay for a small team to add more WiS content. Which would sell more clothes, which would add more, etc. Essentially have the people interested in Space Barbie pay for it,
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
393548
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 02:41:22 -
[89] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Kinroi Alari wrote: Tangentially related: I do like the new clothing, even if only relevant for wear inside one's own CQ. (And I hate jump fatigue; win some and lose some, I guess!)
if i was ccp this is how i'd pay for WiS work. Put out all the clothes we have that work, set reasonable or cheap prices. all the funds from that go to pay for a small team to add more WiS content. Which would sell more clothes, which would add more, etc. Essentially have the people interested in Space Barbie pay for it,
I approve of this.
I need more clothes.
Unlock all the clothes || My Fanclub
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
950
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 07:03:26 -
[90] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ) But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak. Then it would be like the real political party where only the selected few are ever chosen to attend the fund raisers and the rest who do all the ground work never see the man in person. Hence, the inner circle comment.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
33500
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 07:43:29 -
[91] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:they wasted years developing a broken mechanic. Mr Epeen I for one welcome our jovian overlords. Maybe they can figure out how to decontaminate the station for us. SO MUCH THIS
Founder of the Graycember movement and LAGL's pet cat.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3766
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 07:52:51 -
[92] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Kinroi Alari wrote: Tangentially related: I do like the new clothing, even if only relevant for wear inside one's own CQ. (And I hate jump fatigue; win some and lose some, I guess!)
if i was ccp this is how i'd pay for WiS work. Put out all the clothes we have that work, set reasonable or cheap prices. all the funds from that go to pay for a small team to add more WiS content. Which would sell more clothes, which would add more, etc. Essentially have the people interested in Space Barbie pay for it,
Well, that would make sense and so it does not fit well to CCP...
I kinda expected that Tiamat had some more stuff for the NES, since Proteus had none (which I blamed on X-mas holiday for Our Two Devs), but now probably everything is on hold until CCP figures out the SKIN stuff.
Because you know, a new system for ships means that clothes can't be developed, at least in CCP land.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
953
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 14:26:55 -
[93] - Quote
All the ice and lack of trees makes them a little crazy?
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3766
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 14:40:42 -
[94] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:All the ice and lack of trees makes them a little crazy?
I have the theory that Icelandic winter harms the performance of foreign talent at least. The weakest expansions used to be summer expansions, conceived and developed during the Icelandic winter...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
463
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 16:47:02 -
[95] - Quote
When anyone mentions walking in stations i will always fondly remember this VERY OLD Gem of a video of some early work done on WIS and hated they started again from scratch and and did a whole new engine which is just gonna be a thing if they keep trying to use the latest with everything cause things are progressing so fast atm tech and software wise that they just need to say " we are going to use this and stick to it" so something can get done instead of wasting so much time and effort. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3769
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 21:11:21 -
[96] - Quote
That was in 2007. It still hurts to see it.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
311
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 21:42:27 -
[97] - Quote
WIS had/has alot of potential tbh
God im really hating that sentence in reference to Eve lol |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
837
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 21:57:12 -
[98] - Quote
Open the door
Step left to dust/legion cc and do your 12year old self a favor and shoot other mature teenegers in face in a enclosed enviroment.
Step right to (forgot the damn name) and shoot ppl in open space closed arena some more.
There wis galore all we need now are drunk vampires in bars playing poker and pants store in middle of station. |
Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
450
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 22:11:22 -
[99] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Baneken wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ) But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak. Then it would be like the real political party where only the selected few are ever chosen to attend the fund raisers and the rest who do all the ground work never see the man in person. Hence, the inner circle comment.
Do you really think that the leaders of any game alliance/coalition want to all log in, relocate to the same station, accept invites to enter a CQ more than once?
I can understand the novelty of an alliance "inner circle" selfie shot once. But screw the effort when everything can be done via external applications much more efficiently. |
Cpt Tirel
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
113
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 22:46:01 -
[100] - Quote
gief pls |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1409
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 02:49:06 -
[101] - Quote
I wants a unicorn for my CQ. One of those fluffy sorta pinkish ones with big eyes. |
Aston Martin DB5
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 03:07:58 -
[102] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:I wants a unicorn for my CQ. One of those fluffy sorta pinkish ones with big eyes.
Why would you need one in your CQ when we already have flying unicorns pretending to mine? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
954
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 03:53:29 -
[103] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Baneken wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ) But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak. Then it would be like the real political party where only the selected few are ever chosen to attend the fund raisers and the rest who do all the ground work never see the man in person. Hence, the inner circle comment. Do you really think that the leaders of any game alliance/coalition want to all log in, relocate to the same station, accept invites to enter a CQ more than once? I can understand the novelty of an alliance "inner circle" selfie shot once. But screw the effort when everything can be done via external applications much more efficiently. Don't be silly, alliance leaders are too busy for this. This image is for those smaller corps in an alliance. The ones that talk themselves up and go try start an alliance in the cold space of Null Sec.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5143
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 11:01:39 -
[104] - Quote
I really don't get the argument against WiS. People say "oh well they should work on the rest of EVE, that's more important", yet CCP are working on Valkyrie and legion, and that's not a problem. Surely once a team is freed up, working on a system like WiS wouldn't be an issue, and would certainly add a lot to the depth of EVE.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
110
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 11:17:49 -
[105] - Quote
WIS have a lot of potential, sadly CCP didnt invest enough time and assets in it.
EVE it's a game about spaceships and without any doubt that WIS it's not a priority but in my opinion it's still a valuable content to improve the immersion in this game. We just need to look at the recent space sims, Elite and Star Citizen have "WIS" feature already as a primary feature or it will be.
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Alcaman
Followers of Odin
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 12:25:23 -
[106] - Quote
I want WIS in this game so much, I personally would be willing to pay extra for it.
Why:
- I don't play EVE to just to fly spaceships. I play it because of the lore, because of the fantasy.
- Most of the gametime for people in EVE is spent in station anyways. Lets make it more exciting again.
- This could be the next natural step to improve the User Interface to make it more realistic. Lets have context based GUI where some User Interfaces are only available in certain situations. This could add a more "natural" feeling for new players. For instance GUI for station services could be more closely linked to "areas" inside the station.
- I always wanted to be able to walk aboard my ship. Starting WIS is a step in right direction.
- CCP might be able to attract a wider variety of players and therefore increase revenue.
Before people start blasting me:
- As a developer myself I know that it can be really inspirational to have side-projects like this. This could therefore be a side-project just like Valkyrie.
- It should be developed with even quicker iterations, than the current cycle. This will ensure that the quickest "development" route is taken and therefore we will experience "value" earlier rather than later.
Shields up! Now you can blast me :) |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38077
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 12:36:38 -
[107] - Quote
Alcaman wrote:Shields up! Now you can blast me :) *Sprays you with ... confetti*
Take that.
I don't even bother putting shields up these days. Don't really need shields to stop hot air and semantics.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Ravnik
Choke-Hold
13323
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 12:44:50 -
[108] - Quote
WIS will only work if you can walkup to ppl you are at war with and blast them in the face...and it gets included on your killboard. Otherwise...no thanks
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly..........
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1578
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 13:07:26 -
[109] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I really don't get the argument against WiS. People say "oh well they should work on the rest of EVE, that's more important", yet CCP are working on Valkyrie and legion, and that's not a problem. Surely once a team is freed up, working on a system like WiS wouldn't be an issue, and would certainly add a lot to the depth of EVE.
WiS is dead because in the end CCP could not find any meaningful gameplay for that.
On the other hand there was an concept of leaving your spaceship to search abandoned space stations/mining outposts where you could find resources (for implants perhaps) and would run ino other players so you probably end up fighting over the loot. That was shelved because it is/was? too big of a project to chew on for CCP. However with the new development cycle who knows if they aren't working on that right now and maybe, maybe we might someday board the new drifter stations.
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Nami Kumamato
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
524
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 13:44:47 -
[110] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:We're getting WiS and it's called Legion. It's been sneaked under everyone's noses. Huzzah
I so hope you're right on this one :)
" And now my ship is oh so cloaked and fit -
I never felt so good, I never felt so hid ! "
- Ramona McCandless, Untitled
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Nami Kumamato
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
524
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 13:59:26 -
[111] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP shot WiS in the head when they cancelled WoD. And that's exactly how much interested is CCP with WiS.
How do you people know so much about the inner workings of CCP still amazes me.
Are you sure that somewhere deep below CCP. in a poorly lit basement WiS is not being worked on - even if by only 2 guys? Looking at the latest release cycle and the way Seagull (which sorry to say is the lady and saviour of EVE) handles it - I wouldnt be surprised if latter down the road you'd see a patch note "CQs are now shareable and you may invite your friends".
WiS was not bad - it just came at a bad time and was handled poorly.
WiS is what would bring CCP more cash and, to all you bitter vets, more targets to shoot at. How is that a bad thing for either of the involved parties? :)
" And now my ship is oh so cloaked and fit -
I never felt so good, I never felt so hid ! "
- Ramona McCandless, Untitled
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Nami Kumamato
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
524
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 14:04:04 -
[112] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I really don't get the argument against WiS. People say "oh well they should work on the rest of EVE, that's more important", yet CCP are working on Valkyrie and legion, and that's not a problem. Surely once a team is freed up, working on a system like WiS wouldn't be an issue, and would certainly add a lot to the depth of EVE. WiS is dead because in the end CCP could not find any meaningful gameplay for that. On the other hand there was an concept of leaving your spaceship to search abandoned space stations/mining outposts where you could find resources (for implants perhaps) and would run ino other players so you probably end up fighting over the loot. That was shelved because it is/was? too big of a project to chew on for CCP. However with the new development cycle who knows if they aren't working on that right now and maybe, maybe we might someday board the new drifter stations.
I think that was mainly shelved because the mechanic itself (although fun in nature) would have raised more problems than it solved. (what happens to your ship while you're out of it? can I steal it? why run around the data shard when you can hack it's computer and have it jettison the cargo out ? would you still go in one if you saw that there is already someone in there? so basically you're saying I could lose my ship and clone because I stepped on a mine/got a bullet in my head? etc. etc.)
" And now my ship is oh so cloaked and fit -
I never felt so good, I never felt so hid ! "
- Ramona McCandless, Untitled
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
187
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 14:07:56 -
[113] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I really don't get the argument against WiS. People say "oh well they should work on the rest of EVE, that's more important", yet CCP are working on Valkyrie and legion, and that's not a problem. Surely once a team is freed up, working on a system like WiS wouldn't be an issue, and would certainly add a lot to the depth of EVE.
the way people complain about people jumping to npc corps during wardecs or to avoid them then a WiS system will bring nothing more than encouragement and something to do instead of going into space. soon eve becomes a "Space Sims" full of advertising and maybe microtransactions,
Valkyrie and legion are seperate things so possible to bring in a different income and if they are successful then the marketing alone would help the whole company, WiS system is just an addon which wouldnt really bring anything financially but more of a social interaction aspect, would it bring more subs? maybe, maybe not, even if it did would it create interaction in space or would they come to socialise in the space bar providing nothing to the actual gameplay, and would they pay the subscription costs for this feature alone?
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Josef Djugashvilis
2889
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Posted - 2015.02.19 14:09:11 -
[114] - Quote
Would it not be better to suggest some content for WiS to convince CCP to work on it, rather then demanding WiS wth no content?
This is not a signature.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
619
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Posted - 2015.02.19 14:32:20 -
[115] - Quote
various wrote: Imagine standing in a half circle, with your friends, around your CEO with his carrier floating in the bay behind him, while you are having a voice comms corp meeting. (Seeing your inner circle that can be loaded safely in one CQ)
But 200 people won't fit inside a CQ. 6000 people can fit in teamspeak. Then it would be like the real political party where only the selected few are ever chosen to attend the fund raisers and the rest who do all the ground work never see the man in person.
Hence, the inner circle comment.
Do you really think that the leaders of any game alliance/coalition want to all log in, relocate to the same station, accept invites to enter a CQ more than once? I can understand the novelty of an alliance "inner circle" selfie shot once. But screw the effort when everything can be done via external applications much more efficiently.
Don't be silly, alliance leaders are too busy for this. This image is for those smaller corps in an alliance. The ones that talk themselves up and go try start an alliance in the cold space of Null Sec.
So in summary CCP should spend resources on something that some people in some corps might use sometimes for a select few of their members who are of a certain rank within the corp and who also happen to have the hardware to handle multiple people standing around staring at each other in CQ, while they chat on Teamspeak. A useless feature devoid of actual gameplay, for a pretty narrow band of players. Great. Yeah, CCP should get right on that.
Lan Wang wrote: WiS is dead because in the end CCP could not find any meaningful gameplay for that.
On the other hand there was an concept of leaving your spaceship to search abandoned space stations/mining outposts where you could find resources (for implants perhaps) and would run ino other players so you probably end up fighting over the loot. That was shelved because it is/was? too big of a project to chew on for CCP. However with the new development cycle who knows if they aren't working on that right now and maybe, maybe we might someday board the new drifter stations.
This was the only time that WiS really seemed interesting. Probably because it was the only time that WiS actually had a point and wasn't just empty eye candy. But yeah, I guess CCP realized making a responsive and fun avatar-based game was hard and would basically amount to creating a whole new game. And it still wouldn't have been really adding anything new to EVE. We already gather items via exploration, hacking, and archaeology in our ships. Why would some items now require us to leave our ships for some reason? Still kind of reeks of trying to force a square peg into a round hole. But it could have been fun and contained some actual gameplay at least. Better than standing around staring at each other. |
Kinroi Alari
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno
39
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Posted - 2015.02.19 14:35:55 -
[116] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:WiS is dead because in the end CCP could not find any meaningful gameplay for that.
On the other hand there was an concept of leaving your spaceship to search abandoned space stations/mining outposts where you could find resources (for implants perhaps) and would run ino other players so you probably end up fighting over the loot. That was shelved because it is/was? too big of a project to chew on for CCP. However with the new development cycle who knows if they aren't working on that right now and maybe, maybe we might someday board the new drifter stations.
Though problematic (see Nami Kumamato's comments), I would love to see something that integrates avatar exploration of derelict stations / outposts with both capsuleer and DUST 514 / Legion infantry (albeit capsuleers would be outclassed by the infantry). Especially if capsuleers could mount a CRU module onto a ship to allow the rapid respawn of infantry and augmented capsuleer exploration clones. But then I'm one of those silly people who sometimes likes the hacking minigame.
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38137
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 14:45:29 -
[117] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:So in summary CCP should spend resources on something that some people in some corps might use sometimes for a select few of their members who are of a certain rank within the corp and who also happen to have the hardware to handle multiple people standing around staring at each other in CQ, while they chat on Teamspeak. A useless feature devoid of actual gameplay, for a pretty narrow band of players. Great. Yeah, CCP should get right on that. I'd pay for it. Just like I already pay for Devs to work on the rest of EVE's aspects that I don't care about or aren't involved in whatsoever. VoV
Strangely though, you won't find me in FW threads, in Indy threads, in incursion threads, in ship threads, in really anything other than the places I have fun. Really not sure why detractors love spending their time doing the opposite when it comes to anything related to a WiS concept. Unless of course you think spending Dev time on something that doesn't interest you is tantamount to heresy, in which case here's some ammo, the monument is that way ->
Quote:This was the only time that WiS really seemed interesting. To you.
Quote: Probably because it was the only time that WiS actually had a point and wasn't just empty eye candy. For you.
Quote:And it still wouldn't have been really adding anything new to EVE. For you.
Quote:We already gather items via exploration, hacking, and archaeology in our ships. Why would some items now require us to leave our ships for some reason? I dunno, maybe fun?
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38137
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 14:46:16 -
[118] - Quote
Quote:Still kind of reeks of trying to force a square peg into a round hole. To you.
Quote:But it could have been fun and contained some actual gameplay at least. It would, maybe just not for you though.
Quote:Better than standing around staring at each other. For you.
So what exactly are you doing here? Trying to save us all from ourselves?
BRB heading over to Warfare subforum to rant about Gallente Militia things that have nothing at all to do with anything I do in EVE or find remotely worth my time or money because that's what I do. After that it's onto AFK cloaking in null and maybe I'll go shitup some indy thread too.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
619
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 15:30:43 -
[119] - Quote
I'm actually not against EVE having some sort of avatar-based gameplay. I like my characters and wouldn't mind doing things as them rather than as ships all the time. This is a general discussion about WiS, why it was canned, and what it could have been or could be in the future. Yes, I am expressing MY thoughts on the matter. Duh. |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38157
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 15:46:12 -
[120] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:I'm actually not against EVE having some sort of avatar-based gameplay. I like my characters and wouldn't mind doing things as them rather than as ships all the time. This is a general discussion about WiS, why it was canned, and what it could have been or could be in the future. Yes, I am expressing MY thoughts on the matter. Duh. Nah, you're saying it's bad because you think it is. Very obvious when reading your posts and how you make your own views a general context, it took me to add the "you"s to demonstrate that. It's really the basis for every point you (try to) make.
But beyond my silliness, why was it canned? Well prolly already answered very accurately in the first page.
What could it have been? Gee I dunno, don't really want to waste my time thinking about that as it's pointless. I'd rather spend it looking forward to where it's going now. And we can already see that .. well, some of us can.
Otherwise I'm over these threads other than tossing in a random comment or rustling a britch or two. If I want WiS there are better ways to go about influencing it's development and I've already been pursuing those for quite a while.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5145
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 15:48:56 -
[121] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:WiS is dead because in the end CCP could not find any meaningful gameplay for that.
On the other hand there was an concept of leaving your spaceship to search abandoned space stations/mining outposts where you could find resources (for implants perhaps) and would run ino other players so you probably end up fighting over the loot. That was shelved because it is/was? too big of a project to chew on for CCP. However with the new development cycle who knows if they aren't working on that right now and maybe, maybe we might someday board the new drifter stations. Define meaningful. Arguably more of the game is the meta, it's what we do with the tools available to us. I always though that being able to have WiS, we could have other ways to socially interact beyond text and voice.
As for too big a project, on the side of EVE right now, they are working on a PC version of dust and a VR based combat flight sim. I'm sure once those are out they would easily have enough capacity to work on something like WiS.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5145
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 15:54:43 -
[122] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Valkyrie and legion are seperate things so possible to bring in a different income and if they are successful then the marketing alone would help the whole company, WiS system is just an addon which wouldnt really bring anything financially but more of a social interaction aspect, would it bring more subs? maybe, maybe not, even if it did would it create interaction in space or would they come to socialise in the space bar providing nothing to the actual gameplay, and would they pay the subscription costs for this feature alone? If WiS was an optional component, akin to a separate game, but directly accessible through EVE, allowing it to act as a separate area with minigames and conference halls and whatnot, then there's nothing stopping them charging for it. I'd pay a one off fee for the addition of WiS to my account to allow me to walk about the station and such. They could even do payments by PLEX. Like a PLEX unlocks an accounts ability to use WiS for example, though I'd say the existing CQs should allow access to a Corp or Alliance meeting room for free. As long as it's not adding anything that's directly beneficial to EVE and is purely a sidegame, I don't see any issues with it beyond the standard complaint that any change would get.
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
21230
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:58:15 -
[123] - Quote
The amount of people demanding meaningful game play in this thread, while simultaneous making a shitpost about it on the forums, is astounding.
I guess "meaningful" things that are enjoyable really is subjective afterall.
Hey, but ... doesn't that apply to every part of EVE?
MIND = BLOWN.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
289
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:23:35 -
[124] - Quote
If you want all this WiS that has no semantic bearing in the game. Why not boot up Star I want to take a dump in space Citizen and well take a dump? Or have a shower, in space.
I am being a bit serious here. If that is what your into what is wrong with perhaps playing more than one game? There are games out there with this sort of game play. I personally hate it, but if it is so important, perhaps give em a go.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5146
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 17:56:04 -
[125] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:If you want all this WiS that has no semantic bearing in the game. Why not boot up Star I want to take a dump in space Citizen and well take a dump? Or have a shower, in space.
I am being a bit serious here. If that is what your into what is wrong with perhaps playing more than one game? There are games out there with this sort of game play. I personally hate it, but if it is so important, perhaps give em a go. At the same time, whats wrong with CCP developing features you don't like? I have no intention of buying a Facebook rift or Valkyrie, but I appreciate they are making it for a section of the playerbase who will. If down the line CCP wanted to build a walkabout set of minigames and you just didn't play that bit, why should you care?
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
289
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:06:24 -
[126] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:If you want all this WiS that has no semantic bearing in the game. Why not boot up Star I want to take a dump in space Citizen and well take a dump? Or have a shower, in space.
I am being a bit serious here. If that is what your into what is wrong with perhaps playing more than one game? There are games out there with this sort of game play. I personally hate it, but if it is so important, perhaps give em a go. At the same time, whats wrong with CCP developing features you don't like? I have no intention of buying a Facebook rift or Valkyrie, but I appreciate they are making it for a section of the playerbase who will. If down the line CCP wanted to build a walkabout set of minigames and you just didn't play that bit, why should you care? And how well is Dust doing again? As a FPS its not doing well at all last i heard. That is good enough reason, if i wanted to spend money on SC i would have paid for it. I want eve and i don't want eve to become another SC or ED. And no you can't do that sort of development without spending a lot of real life ISKies.
Sure when everything else is fixed.. what in 2045 perhaps then they can have a look at a some minigame most of new eden will turn off.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
188
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:19:25 -
[127] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Valkyrie and legion are seperate things so possible to bring in a different income and if they are successful then the marketing alone would help the whole company, WiS system is just an addon which wouldnt really bring anything financially but more of a social interaction aspect, would it bring more subs? maybe, maybe not, even if it did would it create interaction in space or would they come to socialise in the space bar providing nothing to the actual gameplay, and would they pay the subscription costs for this feature alone? If WiS was an optional component, akin to a separate game, but directly accessible through EVE, allowing it to act as a separate area with minigames and conference halls and whatnot, then there's nothing stopping them charging for it. I'd pay a one off fee for the addition of WiS to my account to allow me to walk about the station and such. They could even do payments by PLEX. Like a PLEX unlocks an accounts ability to use WiS for example, though I'd say the existing CQs should allow access to a Corp or Alliance meeting room for free. As long as it's not adding anything that's directly beneficial to EVE and is purely a sidegame, I don't see any issues with it beyond the standard complaint that any change would get.
I guess it could work that way, similar to the character resculpt and dual training, but again it would bring a whole new section of wants and fixes which maybe would demand a team the size of eve to simply run it, maybe that alone is too much of a gamble, considering they dont know if it could increase subs or be another waste of time, what would be in the stations to make people want to be there and what would drive them to actually return to the station apart from your run of mill gambling things, if they say eve is broken something like this could make it even more broken.
Then again on the plus side they may hit gold and it would be successful and people would flock to the game, after that would it too hard to implement walking in ships also, to which extent it becomes more like a space sim like [insert space sim everyone is talking about here]
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5147
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 19:29:43 -
[128] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:And how well is Dust doing again? As a FPS its not doing well at all last i heard. That is good enough reason, if i wanted to spend money on SC i would have paid for it. I want eve and i don't want eve to become another SC or ED. And no you can't do that sort of development without spending a lot of real life ISKies.
Sure when everything else is fixed.. what in 2045 perhaps then they can have a look at a some minigame most of new eden will turn off. What relevance is the success of dust?
And if CCP want to put in WiS, why does it matter to you? Just don't use it and TADA, you don't have to see it. What possible effect do you think it would have on you that isn't simply "Dev time" which is an moot point since they are developing 2 games other than EVE right now?
And they can do what they want, when they want. If they want to throw in a half-arsed attempt at space minecraft into a door from your CQ, they can do so. They don't actually need your permission, and I doubt many players who say they will quit will actually have the balls to biomass.
Lan Wang wrote:I guess it could work that way, similar to the character resculpt and dual training, but again it would bring a whole new section of wants and fixes which maybe would demand a team the size of eve to simply run it, maybe that alone is too much of a gamble, considering they dont know if it could increase subs or be another waste of time, what would be in the stations to make people want to be there and what would drive them to actually return to the station apart from your run of mill gambling things, if they say eve is broken something like this could make it even more broken.
Then again on the plus side they may hit gold and it would be successful and people would flock to the game, after that would it too hard to implement walking in ships also, to which extent it becomes more like a space sim like [insert space sim everyone is talking about here] I see your point, but would the additional work really be any different from what they will need to do for Valkyrie or Legion? And I doubt those will be where CCP stops. They are a business and they will grow to accommodate more and bigger projects where they can to generate revenue. It seems really strange to me that if CCP say "we're ging to add some avatar gameplay to stations", people lose their minds, but if they say "We're going to devote years of time to producing a VR combat flight simulator set in the EVE universe and possibly linked to EVE in the future" everyone's like "OK", as if they are going to get all the staff to support that from a magic dev pool, but the WiS ones would be all from core feature improvement teams.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
313
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:16:00 -
[129] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.
The end result was that we've still got the micro transactions without any of the cool content promised.
What a success!!
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
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DaReaper
Net 7
1794
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 20:19:16 -
[130] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:DaReaper wrote:Kinroi Alari wrote: Tangentially related: I do like the new clothing, even if only relevant for wear inside one's own CQ. (And I hate jump fatigue; win some and lose some, I guess!)
if i was ccp this is how i'd pay for WiS work. Put out all the clothes we have that work, set reasonable or cheap prices. all the funds from that go to pay for a small team to add more WiS content. Which would sell more clothes, which would add more, etc. Essentially have the people interested in Space Barbie pay for it, Well, that would make sense and so it does not fit well to CCP... I kinda expected that Tiamat had some more stuff for the NES, since Proteus had none (which I blamed on X-mas holiday for Our Two Devs), but now probably everything is on hold until CCP figures out the SKIN stuff. Because you know, a new system for ships means that clothes can't be developed, at least in CCP land.
Seems that way. I mean look at ll the topics on this, there are alot of people who really want the avatar game play. Even some who were part of the summer of rage that want it (i/m guessing cause the summer of rage and the release of Incarnia was so bad it made people who wanted it, like me, get pissed off) Honestly, like the pilot program with the ship painting, it would not be that difficult to release say 10 special edition outfits and maybe a hanger decoration, and see how well it sells and see if people actually want it. You also say "all the money from this sell will go to make more WiS environments if successful" so if it fails, then you wasted maybe a few days of dev time. But if it succeeds....
OFC ccp won't do it, but i think they should. It would be the perfect way to tie all there games together. and enable a big social aspect for each game too. And then the people who want to play space barbie and show off can.
I really should of followed through fully with my csm X campeange but stupid me forgot to san my passport, oh well.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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DaReaper
Net 7
1794
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:23:53 -
[131] - Quote
Alcaman wrote:I want WIS in this game so much, I personally would be willing to pay extra for it.Why:
- I don't play EVE to just to fly spaceships. I play it because of the lore, because of the fantasy.
- Most of the gametime for people in EVE is spent in station anyways. Lets make it more exciting again.
*snip*
I'll just touch on this point. i have ran two alliances in my eve carreer, both have died. But there is a main point to it, for a huge chunk of my time as an alliance leader, i either filled my corp pos' or sat in a station talking to my members, all day everyday. It would of been fun to walk to the station bar, pull up a chair, get a drink and chat that way. Or go to the station gambling hall, or just wander the halls as i was chatting up a corp about joining. Ship spining is fine and dandy but it gets old after a bit. And this would of at least given me a chance to do something interesting while i was working on building my alliance
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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DaReaper
Net 7
1794
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 20:30:17 -
[132] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
So in summary CCP should spend resources on something that some people in some corps might use sometimes for a select few of their members who are of a certain rank within the corp and who also happen to have the hardware to handle multiple people standing around staring at each other in CQ, while they chat on Teamspeak. A useless feature devoid of actual gameplay, for a pretty narrow band of players. Great. Yeah, CCP should get right on that.
Snip
This was the only time that WiS really seemed interesting. Probably because it was the only time that WiS actually had a point and wasn't just empty eye candy. But yeah, I guess CCP realized making a responsive and fun avatar-based game was hard and would basically amount to creating a whole new game. And it still wouldn't have been really adding anything new to EVE. We already gather items via exploration, hacking, and archaeology in our ships. Why would some items now require us to leave our ships for some reason? Still kind of reeks of trying to force a square peg into a round hole. But it could have been fun and contained some actual gameplay at least. Better than standing around staring at each other.
Honestly, my suggestion is sound. Make it so people who want it can pay for it. its that simple. Microtranactions go to pay for WiS development, which would increase microtransaction sales.
Having you explore dead stations should be in legion, i just thing we could come up with ways that wis would work for people who want to play. I mean how many times have you sat in a station system waititng for a fleet op, and you are ready to go but the rest of the guys take another 30 min. I think it would be more interesting to do something besides ship spin. But this is the idea of valk, play a quick game while you wait for the fleet to roll
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
450
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:30:35 -
[133] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. The end result was that we've still got the micro transactions without any of the cool content promised. What a success!!
The end result is more likely that Eve Online exists |
DaReaper
Net 7
1794
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 20:40:54 -
[134] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. The end result was that we've still got the micro transactions without any of the cool content promised. What a success!!
if the microtransaction are just for cosmetics in eve (i don;t care how valk or legion will handle this, and i occationally play dust so that don;t bother me either) and it went to pay for WiS development directly, then why woudl you have an issue? if you don;t use it, and ccp keeps eve going then why does it matter?
I understand the problem was they shifted too many resources to WoD and WiS, and we got a fizzle as opposed to a big bang for all the dev time. But times have changed, and they seem to be making better choices. One can aruge that dust is breaking even at least, but we can;t tell till the finical report is out, and even then thats still vegaue.
And to anyone who says "dur why don;t you pay for SC.." because *gasp* SC is not eve.
Its not that hard to understand. I play eve because i LOVE eve. I love the game play, the single server, the training system, the freedom, i absolutly LOVE eve. However, i can see room for eve to grow and improve. I don;t want eve to have a space toliet, but i'd love for eve to have dark avatar game play, from brothels to bars, to fight pits, to corp and alliance chambers, to other things to kill time while i wait for soemthing in space to happen.
This SC vs EVE argument is stupid. Beyond the fact that SC is vaporware, EVE and SC are not even in the same damn legue. There is no other game like eve out there, why can;t ti grow to become something better. WiS could ENHANCE the expereince, or add new game play elements. if its paid for by people who want it, like valk and dust and legion are, then why shoudl that bother you? If the microt transactions spill into eve play, i.e. golden ammo that does 1000X more damnage for the low price of $1 for 100 rounds, then yea f that. But if you can get a hat, cigar, glasses, clothes, or other stuff that changes nothing, then.. your issue is what?
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Aston Martin DB5
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 01:16:11 -
[135] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:WiS is dead because in the end CCP could not find any meaningful gameplay for that.
On the other hand there was an concept of leaving your spaceship to search abandoned space stations/mining outposts where you could find resources (for implants perhaps) and would run ino other players so you probably end up fighting over the loot. That was shelved because it is/was? too big of a project to chew on for CCP. However with the new development cycle who knows if they aren't working on that right now and maybe, maybe we might someday board the new drifter stations. Define meaningful. Arguably more of the game is the meta, it's what we do with the tools available to us. I always though that being able to have WiS, we could have other ways to socially interact beyond text and voice. As for too big a project, on the side of EVE right now, they are working on a PC version of dust and a VR based combat flight sim. I'm sure once those are out they would easily have enough capacity to work on something like WiS.
Are they truly working on a PC version of Dust514? If that is true that's awesome! I did voice my opinion with them launching it for playstation3 in favor of PC many moons ago. Hopefully they will aim small with maps and content allowing it to expand with popularity instead of something big filling in the holes. Hopefully they'll get rid of the training times to allow just plain fun with the FPS ground game while gaining Loyalty points and isk for FW players. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3775
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Posted - 2015.02.20 07:44:07 -
[136] - Quote
Meanwhile in other news, the improved opportunities based NPE will make the new players start in space.
I'll be shocked if the CQ becomes a part of the opportunities system. (Seriously: "Enter your Captain's Quarters -> Walk around your Captain's Quarters-> Sit on the couch -> Stand up again -> Congratulations!")
I'll be a little surprised if the CQ still is a part of the client by Fanfest 2016, too.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7934
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 09:09:16 -
[137] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Meanwhile in other news, the improved opportunities based NPE will make the new players start in space.
I'll be shocked if the CQ becomes a part of the opportunities system. (Seriously: "Enter your Captain's Quarters -> Walk around your Captain's Quarters-> Sit on the couch -> Stand up again -> Congratulations!")
I'll be a little surprised if the CQ still is a part of the client by Fanfest 2016, too.
I imagine Hilmar punching himself in the face repeatedly now.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
|
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
292
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 11:32:01 -
[138] - Quote
DaReaper wrote: Ship spining is fine and dandy but it gets old after a bit.
And all that other stuff will also get old real fast since it doesn't have any meaningful gameplay. A virtual bar with virtual beer is going to be no more interesting or relevant than a conversation in Jita local.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
104
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 11:48:58 -
[139] - Quote
Quote:Are they truly working on a PC version of Dust514? Dust for PC was named "Project: Legion". Here is the Fanfest 2014 presentation. |
Thonys Visser
Green Visstick High
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 12:00:38 -
[140] - Quote
I think it is still very strange i can not meet other players in station
to do trading meet other people socializing meet friends meet the enemy and talk it all over
just chat a bit
I want to make a call here.... for cccp to tell the community there point of view on this matter (i am not ranting, just asking)
it is such a missed opportunity |
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Josef Djugashvilis
2890
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 12:22:22 -
[141] - Quote
Jita levels of spam in a bar.
Something to look forward to...
This is not a signature.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9838
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 13:31:49 -
[142] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I really don't get the argument against WiS. People say "oh well they should work on the rest of EVE, that's more important", yet CCP are working on Valkyrie and legion, and that's not a problem. Surely once a team is freed up, working on a system like WiS wouldn't be an issue, and would certainly add a lot to the depth of EVE.
Once CCP finishes Legion and Phoenix, their is no need for WiS. People who want to walk around and do things can do so with their EVE character..in Legion. Same as what Wargamming is doing with Tanks/Warplanes/Warships (want to fly, play warplanes, like water, go to warships, want ground action, go Tanks, want Infantry, pay something else).
This is good because Wargamming (like CCP will be doing soon) isn't diluting any of their games to cater to the small fringe 'cross-over' types who always seem to want everything together in one package especially since others (battlefield, call of duty, planetside etc) already do all that combined arms stuff. If a person wants space ships and walking they can play Star Trek Online, SWTOR, Elite:D or SC when it comes out. EVE focuses on space ships and spreadsheets.
There is simply no need for walking around in EVE (and EVE is a pragmatic game for pragmatic players), there isn't a single gameplay aspect of EVE that gets enhanced if you let people walk to it with an avatar (yea, im so gonna walk to my agent for the next mission when i can just call him from my ships space-phone). Who needs legs when you can literally move faster than light? and Who needs a 'meeting in a hanger' when we have teamspeak/mumble/EVE-voice?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5151
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 14:08:58 -
[143] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Once CCP finishes Legion and Phoenix, their is no need for WiS. People who want to walk around and do things can do so with their EVE character..in Legion. Same as what Wargamming is doing with Tanks/Warplanes/Warships (want to fly, play warplanes, like water, go to warships, want ground action, go Tanks, want Infantry, pay something else).
This is good because Wargamming (like CCP will be doing soon) isn't diluting any of their games to cater to the small fringe 'cross-over' types who always seem to want everything together in one package especially since others (battlefield, call of duty, planetside etc) already do all that combined arms stuff. If a person wants space ships and walking they can play Star Trek Online, SWTOR, Elite:D or SC when it comes out. EVE focuses on space ships and spreadsheets.
There is simply no need for walking around in EVE (and EVE is a pragmatic game for pragmatic players), there isn't a single gameplay aspect of EVE that gets enhanced if you let people walk to it with an avatar (yea, im so gonna walk to my agent for the next mission when i can just call him from my ships space-phone). Who needs legs when you can literally move faster than light? and Who needs a 'meeting in a hanger' when we have teamspeak/mumble/EVE-voice?
That's not really the same. People want their character to be able to wander around mroe than a prison cell when they are docked up. Sure, they could just go play something else, but then that's not growing EVE if they do, is it? CCP wants to retain players not give them more reasons to play something else.
And no, there's no "need" for it, but it's something a lot of people would like. EVE is designed to be a virtual world, and there's no reason can't be expanded into other areas to give that further depth.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
293
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 14:56:18 -
[144] - Quote
And WiS won't retain players because there is no way in hell it will be as good as the games that focus on it.
that is why the statement about the popularity of DUST is relevant. It is not accepted generally by the FPS community because its not a good FPS game generally. And the WiS community is going to be disappointed with EVE WiS every time because they primarily are not that type of game and mostly don't have the in house expertise to become one.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9842
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 15:08:46 -
[145] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:That's not really the same. People want their character to be able to wander around mroe than a prison cell when they are docked up. Sure, they could just go play something else, but then that's not growing EVE if they do, is it? CCP wants to retain players not give them more reasons to play something else.
Sets my teeth on edge every time someone talks of 'growing' EVE. The best part of EVE is that it's not full of the sae kinds of people that infect other games. EVE is the nice little upscale boutique in a world full of Wal-marts.
Quote: And no, there's no "need" for it, but it's something a lot of people would like. EVE is designed to be a virtual world, and there's no reason can't be expanded into other areas to give that further depth.
That's /thread right there lol. The WiS crowd in EVE is exactly like the "Infantry crowd" in Tanks, rather than play the plethora of combined arms games out there now, they won't be happy till TANKS bends the knee to their wishes too.
(It's not unlike females who have plenty of choices of stable non-abusive mates yet consistently choose the abusive D-bags who are the opposite of what they say they want so that they can 'fix them' and have a trophy to show lord over their frenemies )
Depth is only important to "immersion" seeking role players. Despite the lore stuff, EVE is one of the more anti-RPG mmos ever (I know a guy who I play Star Trek Online with who left EVE just for that reason, in STO he can 'hail' someone else and have a nice role-play experience with a trekkie, in EVe all he ever got was shot at and laughed at. Mission accomplished/working as intended). While reading post in the OOPE section I came across this post: Val'Dore wrote:I'm an SC backer, and the primary draw for me is immersion. I want to feel like I'm in command of a 'living/breathing' ship. In EvE, you don't get that.
I couldn't help but think "good, there are plenty of games for role players, not many for anti-immersion people like me" (I don't pretend to be a goo-incased star ship captain, space ships are just the chess pieces on the board for folks like me). RPG fans should play RPG friendly games of which there are already many with one more (Star Citizen) coming soon and let us have at least this ONE 'pragmatic experience' game. |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 16:07:54 -
[146] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:Quote:Are they truly working on a PC version of Dust514? Dust for PC was named "Project: Legion". Here is the Fanfest 2014 presentation.
Awesome stuff! I Didn't know that they've been working on this. I only hope they don't create just large maps. Majority of the popularity with BF and MW are geared toward smaller maps: TDM, capture the flag, capture points, search and destroy, etc etc.
Does anyone know if they're implementing skill points like in dust? I'd prefer to unlock rewards and items by just enjoying the game instead. |
Reiisha
Dawn of Transcendence
704
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 16:14:34 -
[147] - Quote
I still want WiS. Check the 'A Future Vision' trailer for why.
EVE isn't purely about the spaceships. If it was people would rather keep on playing Homeworld, or just play X/Elite/Star citizen (whenever that last one comes). EVE is about cuttthroats, backstabbing, but also making a name for yourself, good or bad. There's no reason why avatar-based gameplay can't be a part of the same core game.
P3ps1 Max wrote:Damjan Fox wrote:Quote:Are they truly working on a PC version of Dust514? Dust for PC was named "Project: Legion". Here is the Fanfest 2014 presentation. Awesome stuff! I Didn't know that they've been working on this. I only hope they don't create just large maps. Majority of the popularity with BF and MW are geared toward smaller maps: TDM, capture the flag, capture points, search and destroy, etc etc. Does anyone know if they're implementing skill points like in dust? I'd prefer to unlock rewards and items by just enjoying the game instead.
The implementation is exactly the same, it's just Dust on PC, nothing more.
Do mind though that through playing you earn a lot of extra sp...
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 16:33:17 -
[148] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:I still want WiS. Check the 'A Future Vision' trailer for why. EVE isn't purely about the spaceships. If it was people would rather keep on playing Homeworld, or just play X/Elite/Star citizen (whenever that last one comes). EVE is about cuttthroats, backstabbing, but also making a name for yourself, good or bad. There's no reason why avatar-based gameplay can't be a part of the same core game. P3ps1 Max wrote:Damjan Fox wrote:Quote:Are they truly working on a PC version of Dust514? Dust for PC was named "Project: Legion". Here is the Fanfest 2014 presentation. Awesome stuff! I Didn't know that they've been working on this. I only hope they don't create just large maps. Majority of the popularity with BF and MW are geared toward smaller maps: TDM, capture the flag, capture points, search and destroy, etc etc. Does anyone know if they're implementing skill points like in dust? I'd prefer to unlock rewards and items by just enjoying the game instead. The implementation is exactly the same, it's just Dust on PC, nothing more. Do mind though that through playing you earn a lot of extra sp...
Well I only hope they remove SP with damage modifiers in dust... Be nice to see those SP only unlock new weapons and ships. That's a huge turn-off adding those skills to improve accuracy, reload time, damage of certain weapons ./sigh=ƒÿí
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16128
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 16:58:27 -
[149] - Quote
The current and previous EvE EP s have publicly said they have no plans to work on wis. I don't know how to make it simpler for you.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7934
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 17:14:54 -
[150] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:Damjan Fox wrote:Quote:Are they truly working on a PC version of Dust514? Dust for PC was named "Project: Legion". Here is the Fanfest 2014 presentation. Awesome stuff! I Didn't know that they've been working on this.
Recently nobody knows if they are still working on this. Nearly 150 days when we have seen last thing about it. As I advocated for it, and was full of hope, I will probably have to punch myself in the face repeatedly.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
|
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Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1117
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 18:44:48 -
[151] - Quote
I still aspire to one day open an avatar beauty boutique / salon in one of the available trade units in the main Plaza of Amarrs Emperor Family station.
I envisage a grand public transport hyper loop network augmented by interconnecting metro tunnels allowing for small, but powerful and speedy mechanised avatar mounts to travel along as a means to conveniently, and quickly commute between my CQ and desired destinations within the station environment.
Courting avatars might take scenic hand held walks along the main promenade at night, enjoying each otherGÇÖs company as they digest the visual splendour of the views from the observation domes offering magnificent vantage points of the planet below emanating with the solar glow from distant stars.
Those who enjoy a flutter might frequent the gambling booths with their hard-earned intersteller kredits. The double your isk slot machines will no doubt be rigged and best avoided however. Such establishments would require a contingent of burly security personnel to keep those who encounter misfortune from becoming unruly.
Thirsty capsuleers might sate their palates in one of the many mead taverns or refreshment parlours. Those of high esteem and wealth would likely gather at social establishments on the upper levels but nothing might rival the lively atmospheric buzz the rowdy common capsuleers could generate in the lower level musical dancing halls.
The midnight candle bistros or delicacies in alternative eateries would be a fine way to wind down and end an evening after having absorbed exhilarating entertainment at the grand Amarr Cineplex with all the spectacles it has to offer. The Gallente Girls Go-Go show no doubt would not be for those faint of heart or a prudish nature.
This is the vision, a glimpse of the future. Please make it a reality.
Concord Approved Trader
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7934
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 19:14:20 -
[152] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I still aspire to one day open an avatar beauty boutique / salon in one of the available trade units in the main Plaza of Amarrs Emperor Family station.
I envisage a grand public transport hyper loop network augmented by interconnecting metro tunnels allowing for small, but powerful and speedy mechanised avatar mounts to travel along as a means to conveniently, and quickly commute between my CQ and desired destinations within the station environment.
Courting avatars might take scenic hand held walks along the main promenade at night, enjoying each otherGÇÖs company as they digest the visual splendour of the views from the observation domes offering magnificent vantage points of the planet below emanating with the solar glow from distant stars.
Those who enjoy a flutter might frequent the gambling booths with their hard-earned intersteller kredits. The double your isk slot machines will no doubt be rigged and best avoided however. Such establishments would require a contingent of burly security personnel to keep those who encounter misfortune from becoming unruly.
Thirsty capsuleers might sate their palates in one of the many mead taverns or refreshment parlours. Those of high esteem and wealth would likely gather at social establishments on the upper levels but nothing might rival the lively atmospheric buzz the rowdy common capsuleers could generate in the lower level musical dancing halls.
The midnight candle bistros or delicacies in alternative eateries would be a fine way to wind down and end an evening after having absorbed exhilarating entertainment at the grand Amarr Cineplex with all the spectacles it has to offer. The Gallente Girls Go-Go show no doubt would not be for those faint of heart or a prudish nature.
This is the vision, a glimpse of the future. Please make it a reality.
And then one man with bomb strapped on to his belly walks into an Amarr shrine and detonates himself. http://i.imgur.com/3Tgq4Gx.gif
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5153
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 19:20:12 -
[153] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Sets my teeth on edge every time someone talks of 'growing' EVE. The best part of EVE is that it's not full of the sae kinds of people that infect other games. EVE is the nice little upscale boutique in a world full of Wal-marts. Well tough. EVE is just a game like any other, with it's target niche and it's desire to grow. AS time moves on, so do the ideals of the game and as it expands it attracts a larger variety of people. It's not your game, so whether you like it or not is irrelevant. CCP don't want to rely on hoping the existing playerbase never dies to keep itself going, because that's simply unrealistic.
Jenn aSide wrote:That's /thread right there lol. The WiS crowd in EVE is exactly like the "Infantry crowd" in Tanks, rather than play the plethora of combined arms games out there now, they won't be happy till TANKS bends the knee to their wishes too. Except it's not. We don't need the updated UI, we don't need prettier asteroid fields, we don't need ship skins and we don't need the new NPCs. Again it's about expanding the depth of the virtual world.
Jenn aSide wrote:I couldn't help but think "good, there are plenty of games for role players, not many for anti-immersion people like me" (I don't pretend to be a goo-incased star ship captain, space ships are just the chess pieces on the board for folks like me). RPG fans should play RPG friendly games of which there are already many with one more (Star Citizen) coming soon and let us have at least this ONE 'pragmatic experience' game. Well unfortunately, EVE wasn't really aiming to become anti-immersive. And again, players can play what they like, and if CCP decides to change EVE to better suit the newer players, that's just tough luck for you.
Further though, adding WiS wouldn't even affect you! You simply wouldn't click it, tada! No problems. I don't go to a cinema to watch an action film, then get put off because another screen is showing a romantic comedy. I just don't watch the films I don't like.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38513
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 19:29:28 -
[154] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:The current and previous EvE EP s have publicly said they have no plans to work on wis. I don't know how to make it simpler for you. Then they're lying because every little advance in avatar development, from clothes to character creator, really is a step ultimately towards a WiS-like feature. Natural evolution, really.
Just like the coming and going of exec producers.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38516
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 19:59:10 -
[155] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I still aspire to one day open an avatar beauty boutique / salon in one of the available trade units in the main Plaza of Amarrs Emperor Family station.
I envisage a grand public transport hyper loop network augmented by interconnecting metro tunnels allowing for small, but powerful and speedy mechanised avatar mounts to travel along as a means to conveniently, and quickly commute between my CQ and desired destinations within the station environment.
Courting avatars might take scenic hand held walks along the main promenade at night, enjoying each otherGÇÖs company as they digest the visual splendour of the views from the observation domes offering magnificent vantage points of the planet below emanating with the solar glow from distant stars.
Those who enjoy a flutter might frequent the gambling booths with their hard-earned intersteller kredits. The double your isk slot machines will no doubt be rigged and best avoided however. Such establishments would require a contingent of burly security personnel to keep those who encounter misfortune from becoming unruly.
Thirsty capsuleers might sate their palates in one of the many mead taverns or refreshment parlours. Those of high esteem and wealth would likely gather at social establishments on the upper levels but nothing might rival the lively atmospheric buzz the rowdy common capsuleers could generate in the lower level musical dancing halls.
The midnight candle bistros or delicacies in alternative eateries would be a fine way to wind down and end an evening after having absorbed exhilarating entertainment at the grand Amarr Cineplex with all the spectacles it has to offer. The Gallente Girls Go-Go show no doubt would not be for those faint of heart or a prudish nature.
This is the vision, a glimpse of the future. Please make it a reality. More than just a pretty face, Boom Boom.
But I already knew that.
Tbh though I already look at Amarr Emperor Family Station as your beauty salon. Saying hi in local is always my first priority and to get 5 mins of face-time with you Boom Boom, the true empress of Amarr, only goes to validate my status as Anoikin fashion elite.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
|
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1118
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 20:18:16 -
[156] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:More than just a pretty face, Boom Boom. But I already knew that. Tbh though I already look at Amarr Emperor Family Station as your beauty salon. Saying hi in local is always my first priority and to get 5 mins of face-time with you Boom Boom, the true empress of Amarr, only goes to validate my status as Anoikin fashion elite. Always making me blush Erica
Concord Approved Trader
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Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1120
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 20:28:07 -
[157] - Quote
It would still be nice to see something in the future.
Even if they used what they have initially to form part of an induction process for new players prior to their impending spcace careers.
Auro walks them about and talks with screens just like in our Quarters showing brief guides or short vidoes of things which they will likely encounter early in their space careers, or something along those lines to perk new player interest.
Concord Approved Trader
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38520
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 20:34:40 -
[158] - Quote
I think it's inevitable. When and in what form though? Who knows.
It'll head that way on it's own, and already is. Already the stigma is all but gone surrounding avatars, more people are getting involved (including current/candidate CSMs) now days we have people asking for more items quite regularly, more features with their avatars. We have public workshops on TS regarding avatar development, with Devs in attendance (thank you corbexx <3). It'll keep growing gently and eventually people will want to be able to do something with these things they've spent so much time and money on.
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:More than just a pretty face, Boom Boom. But I already knew that. Tbh though I already look at Amarr Emperor Family Station as your beauty salon. Saying hi in local is always my first priority and to get 5 mins of face-time with you Boom Boom, the true empress of Amarr, only goes to validate my status as Anoikin fashion elite. Always making me blush Erica For better or worse, Boom Boom, I just tell it like it is.
In the immortal words of my illustrious little assistant:
Candi LeMew > It doesn't have to make sense. It's just the way it is.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16129
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 20:48:20 -
[159] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Malcanis wrote:The current and previous EvE EP s have publicly said they have no plans to work on wis. I don't know how to make it simpler for you. Then they're lying because every little advance in avatar development, from clothes to character creator, really is a step ultimately towards a WiS-like feature. Natural evolution, really. Just like the coming and going of exec producers.
Yeah OK have fun denying reality.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9850
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 20:55:21 -
[160] - Quote
The rest of that is the usual drivel (as if you could speak for CCP), though I will say that it's funny that you say that CCP will do what it please (and suggesting we should all just accept that" when you spent who knows how many posts arguing about how the hyperdunking decision was wrong lol. That you have an internal double standard isn't surprising.
But this part is gold:
Lucas Kell wrote: Further though, adding WiS wouldn't even affect you! You simply wouldn't click it, tada! No problems. I don't go to a cinema to watch an action film, then get put off because another screen is showing a romantic comedy. I just don't watch the films I don't like.
This is EVE Online, a SINGLE SHARD game. Everything affects everyone. Freaking 'beauty salons' and people wasting server cycles having 'avatar meetings in hangers' in a game where 30 people jumping a gate causes TiDi damn well would affect all of us. This isn't even to mention the influx of undesirables who would most likely cling to high sec (as most of the MMO world is made up of the carebear type player) and add their 15 buck voices to the chorus demanding ever more protection.
No thanks. You can have your watered down experience if that's what you like, but I'll continue to advocate for better for this community.
|
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38521
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 21:03:31 -
[161] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Malcanis wrote:The current and previous EvE EP s have publicly said they have no plans to work on wis. I don't know how to make it simpler for you. Then they're lying because every little advance in avatar development, from clothes to character creator, really is a step ultimately towards a WiS-like feature. Natural evolution, really. Just like the coming and going of exec producers. Yeah OK have fun denying reality. That's funny, I was going to say the same thing to you.
Take a look around. When you try and simplify things for others it's often possible to lose sight of the bigger picture. You see the thing is something doesn't actually have to be on CCP's 'agenda' today for the player base to desire it and for it eventually come to fruition.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
753
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 21:07:04 -
[162] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I still aspire to one day open an avatar beauty boutique / salon in one of the available trade units in the main Plaza of Amarrs Emperor Family station.
I envisage a grand public transport hyper loop network augmented by interconnecting metro tunnels allowing for small, but powerful and speedy mechanised avatar mounts to travel along as a means to conveniently, and quickly commute between my CQ and desired destinations within the station environment.
Courting avatars might take scenic hand held walks along the main promenade at night, enjoying each otherGÇÖs company as they digest the visual splendour of the views from the observation domes offering magnificent vantage points of the planet below emanating with the solar glow from distant stars.
Those who enjoy a flutter might frequent the gambling booths with their hard-earned intersteller kredits. The double your isk slot machines will no doubt be rigged and best avoided however. Such establishments would require a contingent of burly security personnel to keep those who encounter misfortune from becoming unruly.
Thirsty capsuleers might sate their palates in one of the many mead taverns or refreshment parlours. Those of high esteem and wealth would likely gather at social establishments on the upper levels but nothing might rival the lively atmospheric buzz the rowdy common capsuleers could generate in the lower level musical dancing halls.
The midnight candle bistros or delicacies in alternative eateries would be a fine way to wind down and end an evening after having absorbed exhilarating entertainment at the grand Amarr Cineplex with all the spectacles it has to offer. The Gallente Girls Go-Go show no doubt would not be for those faint of heart or a prudish nature.
This is the vision, a glimpse of the future. Please make it a reality.
And what will be the design of the other 373 stations in Domain? |
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1120
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 21:08:01 -
[163] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The rest of that is the usual drivel (as if you could speak for CCP), though I will say that it's funny that you say that CCP will do what it please (and suggesting we should all just accept that" when you spent who knows how many posts arguing about how the hyperdunking decision was wrong lol. That you have an internal double standard isn't surprising. But this part is gold: Lucas Kell wrote: Further though, adding WiS wouldn't even affect you! You simply wouldn't click it, tada! No problems. I don't go to a cinema to watch an action film, then get put off because another screen is showing a romantic comedy. I just don't watch the films I don't like.
This is EVE Online, a SINGLE SHARD game. Everything affects everyone. Freaking 'beauty salons' and people wasting server cycles having 'avatar meetings in hangers' in a game where 30 people jumping a gate causes TiDi damn well would affect all of us. This isn't even to mention the influx of undesirables who would most likely cling to high sec (as most of the MMO world is made up of the carebear type player) and add their 15 buck voices to the chorus demanding ever more protection. No thanks. You can have your watered down experience if that's what you like, but I'll continue to advocate for better for this community. Putting a "skin" on a ship can be compared to an avatar visiting a "beauty salon".
Maybe you've never been pampered.
Not much fun if you're camped in Jita 4-4 during a war dec spinning your space vessel.
Wis would cater for additional recreational activities to mitigate against these unfortunate circumstances.
Concord Approved Trader
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Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1120
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Posted - 2015.02.20 21:16:05 -
[164] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I still aspire to one day open an avatar beauty boutique / salon in one of the available trade units in the main Plaza of Amarrs Emperor Family station.
I envisage a grand public transport hyper loop network augmented by interconnecting metro tunnels allowing for small, but powerful and speedy mechanised avatar mounts to travel along as a means to conveniently, and quickly commute between my CQ and desired destinations within the station environment.
Courting avatars might take scenic hand held walks along the main promenade at night, enjoying each otherGÇÖs company as they digest the visual splendour of the views from the observation domes offering magnificent vantage points of the planet below emanating with the solar glow from distant stars.
Those who enjoy a flutter might frequent the gambling booths with their hard-earned intersteller kredits. The double your isk slot machines will no doubt be rigged and best avoided however. Such establishments would require a contingent of burly security personnel to keep those who encounter misfortune from becoming unruly.
Thirsty capsuleers might sate their palates in one of the many mead taverns or refreshment parlours. Those of high esteem and wealth would likely gather at social establishments on the upper levels but nothing might rival the lively atmospheric buzz the rowdy common capsuleers could generate in the lower level musical dancing halls.
The midnight candle bistros or delicacies in alternative eateries would be a fine way to wind down and end an evening after having absorbed exhilarating entertainment at the grand Amarr Cineplex with all the spectacles it has to offer. The Gallente Girls Go-Go show no doubt would not be for those faint of heart or a prudish nature.
This is the vision, a glimpse of the future. Please make it a reality. And what will be the design of the other 373 stations in Domain?
I have no plans to roll out my initial salon / beauty boutique as a franchise so ultimately that's an open ended question to which i have no answer since I rarely leave my home system.
Concord Approved Trader
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
195
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Posted - 2015.02.20 21:48:55 -
[165] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The rest of that is the usual drivel (as if you could speak for CCP), though I will say that it's funny that you say that CCP will do what it please (and suggesting we should all just accept that" when you spent who knows how many posts arguing about how the hyperdunking decision was wrong lol. That you have an internal double standard isn't surprising. But this part is gold: Lucas Kell wrote: Further though, adding WiS wouldn't even affect you! You simply wouldn't click it, tada! No problems. I don't go to a cinema to watch an action film, then get put off because another screen is showing a romantic comedy. I just don't watch the films I don't like.
This is EVE Online, a SINGLE SHARD game. Everything affects everyone. Freaking 'beauty salons' and people wasting server cycles having 'avatar meetings in hangers' in a game where 30 people jumping a gate causes TiDi damn well would affect all of us. This isn't even to mention the influx of undesirables who would most likely cling to high sec (as most of the MMO world is made up of the carebear type player) and add their 15 buck voices to the chorus demanding ever more protection. No thanks. You can have your watered down experience if that's what you like, but I'll continue to advocate for better for this community. Putting a "skin" on a ship can be compared to an avatar visiting a "beauty salon". Maybe you've never been pampered. Not much fun if you're camped in Jita 4-4 during a war dec spinning your space vessel. Wis would cater for additional recreational activities to mitigate against these unfortunate circumstances.
And thats the issue, that would give that career less meaning by providing an entertaining alternative to undocking amd playing the space game
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5154
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 23:19:31 -
[166] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:This is EVE Online, a SINGLE SHARD game. Everything affects everyone. Freaking 'beauty salons' and people wasting server cycles having 'avatar meetings in hangers' in a game where 30 people jumping a gate causes TiDi damn well would affect all of us. This isn't even to mention the influx of undesirables who would most likely cling to high sec (as most of the MMO world is made up of the carebear type player) and add their 15 buck voices to the chorus demanding ever more protection.
No thanks. You can have your watered down experience if that's what you like, but I'll continue to advocate for better for this community. Ignoring your usual personal attacks...
If WiS were implemented, it would likely be on different nodes to the rest of the game, so no, no CPU cycles would be wasted on anyone.
And if that's how you feel, why aren't you freaking out about ship skins?
All this is is once again you whining on as if your vision for EVE is better than anyone else's. Those "undesirables" you are talking about, they are a growing segment of the population, and they have far more say in what the community wants than your single overly bittervet voice. I'm not saying CCP should go off and implement WiS, but if they did, I'd be right there supporting it, as it would add depth that many people obviously want without having to take anything away from the rest of the game. It's a win.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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ACESsiggy
University of Caille
29
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 00:48:49 -
[167] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:I still aspire to one day open an avatar beauty boutique / salon in one of the available trade units in the main Plaza of Amarrs Emperor Family station.
I envisage a grand public transport hyper loop network augmented by interconnecting metro tunnels allowing for small, but powerful and speedy mechanised avatar mounts to travel along as a means to conveniently, and quickly commute between my CQ and desired destinations within the station environment.
Courting avatars might take scenic hand held walks along the main promenade at night, enjoying each otherGÇÖs company as they digest the visual splendour of the views from the observation domes offering magnificent vantage points of the planet below emanating with the solar glow from distant stars.
Those who enjoy a flutter might frequent the gambling booths with their hard-earned intersteller kredits. The double your isk slot machines will no doubt be rigged and best avoided however. Such establishments would require a contingent of burly security personnel to keep those who encounter misfortune from becoming unruly.
Thirsty capsuleers might sate their palates in one of the many mead taverns or refreshment parlours. Those of high esteem and wealth would likely gather at social establishments on the upper levels but nothing might rival the lively atmospheric buzz the rowdy common capsuleers could generate in the lower level musical dancing halls.
The midnight candle bistros or delicacies in alternative eateries would be a fine way to wind down and end an evening after having absorbed exhilarating entertainment at the grand Amarr Cineplex with all the spectacles it has to offer. The Gallente Girls Go-Go show no doubt would not be for those faint of heart or a prudish nature.
This is the vision, a glimpse of the future. Please make it a reality.
You mad bruh?
Just think, all your mining efforts and moon gue will fund all these pet projects of yours. I've heard a rainbow design mining ship to be put on the AUR store.... can't wait to see the final product.
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
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Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1121
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 01:09:42 -
[168] - Quote
ACESsiggy wrote:
You mad bruh?
Just think, all your mining efforts and moon gue will fund all these pet projects of yours. I've heard a rainbow design mining ship to be put on the AUR store.... can't wait to see the final product.
Why would i be angry?
Why would you even ask?
Keep this thread on topic please.
There are rotten eggs in any given basket, this has yet to be one
Concord Approved Trader
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
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Posted - 2015.02.21 10:28:11 -
[169] - Quote
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf revelant and has former dev/gm dude opening talking about how ccp works on these things and great read about the death of the vampire mmo that blames incarnia (WiS)
All go read that who have never yet. It has a former dev/gm opening discussing a lot of the terrible business practices of ccp and why things like WiS actually killed the vampire MMO and almost killed Eve.
Also im sure Dust/valkiry/occulus rift are just repeating this history. Oh well you live and learn... or ya dont |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
5
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 10:53:47 -
[170] - Quote
Id rather have my vampire mmo some some ****** walking in stations barbie
Quote: The beginning of the end for WoD predictably didnGÇÖt have anything to do with that project at all. In June of 2011, CCP launched Incarna, one of EveGÇÖs regular expansions. Incarna was primarily focused on allowing players to interact with the world as their character avatars, rather than just their ships, for the first time. One of the key new additions was the GÇ£Captains QuartersGÇ¥, which allowed your avatar to leave their craft and wander around a limited section of the gameGÇÖs space stations. The system was underpinned by CCPGÇÖs Carbon framework, a technology designed to allow the sharing of code between games; this would facilitate the transfer of WoDGÇÖs character movement technology to the Eve project.
But development of Incarna was not going smoothly. GÇ£As little as a few weeks out from launch, the lead designers were still trying to add features to the CaptainGÇÖs Quarters,GÇ¥ says Blood. GÇ£But without the time or resources to properly do so, many things were left half-delivered, to be iterated upon later GÇô which never happened. CCP has an extensive track record of promising to return to features and never doing so. There was little discipline to the process.GÇ¥
Worst of all, according to Blood, the entire point of the expansion (walking around space stations) was let down by the Reykjavic officeGÇÖs art team; it took them nearly the entire development time to create one factionGÇÖs Captains Quarters. Yet again, the WoD team was asked to cross over in order to bail out an Eve expansion.
Our sources say it took them a fraction of the time to create the one room station interiors for the other three factions. Blood recalls the friction between the teams on this point. GÇ£While it certainly vindicated the WoD artists in terms of work ethic, I remember it was a sore point between the offices that the much vaunted Icelandic crew had been so demonstrably shown up.GÇ¥
Ccp is why we cant have nice things. Go read that article |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9861
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 20:37:09 -
[171] - Quote
I read it last June, damn good article. Reading that and knowing what happens to companies like CCP that get "too big for their britches" (which we have already experienced), it's hard to understand how people desire WiS or other thing that's aimed at making EVE 'bigger'.
CCP is a great little company, they've done one epic thing (EVE Online, a spaceship sandbox game). In the 'not so great' column is 'everything else they tried that wasn't EVE or Spaceships'.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22556
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 21:08:48 -
[172] - Quote
WiS is a prime example of trying to run before you can walk. Character Creator has 2 developers assigned to it. Think about that before you start shooting for the moon.
Unless there is a strong link between the EVE the game and WiS, CCP will not develop it in any way, shape, or form. This was clearly stated in the last conference call between CCP and players on this topic.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16136
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 21:51:27 -
[173] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I read it last June, damn good article. Reading that and knowing what happens to companies like CCP that get "too big for their britches" (which we have already experienced), it's hard to understand how people desire WiS or other thing that's aimed at making EVE 'bigger'. CCP is a great little company, they've done one epic thing (EVE Online, a spaceship sandbox game). In the 'not so great' column is 'everything else they tried that wasn't EVE or Spaceships'.
Valkyrie might be their breakout second product, but we will have to wait to see actual results there.
And, sad to say, it's about as far fro WiS as it's possible to get.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16136
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 21:56:13 -
[174] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Malcanis wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Malcanis wrote:The current and previous EvE EP s have publicly said they have no plans to work on wis. I don't know how to make it simpler for you. Then they're lying because every little advance in avatar development, from clothes to character creator, really is a step ultimately towards a WiS-like feature. Natural evolution, really. Just like the coming and going of exec producers. Yeah OK have fun denying reality. That's funny, I was going to say the same thing to you. Take a look around. When you try and simplify things for others it's often possible to lose sight of the bigger picture. You see the thing is something doesn't actually have to be on CCP's 'agenda' today for the player base to desire it and for it eventually come to fruition.
You're confusing "things I really want" with "things I'm ever going to get".
Senior CCP people have consistently said for the last 4 years or so "welp, WiS didn't work out, we're not going down that road any more".
People like you have consistently said "LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING I LIVE IN A GODDAMB DREAM WORLD WHERE I'LL GET WHAT I WANT BECAUSE I'LL CRY MAGIC FAIRY TEARS IF I DON'T".
Desiring things is great and fine. It's not the same as actually standing any chance of getting them. Just ask my nephew: today he wanted me to make him a pirate ship that can fly and has golden birds and can make monsters go away. He's 4 years old; what's your excuse?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16136
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 21:57:53 -
[175] - Quote
Please, for the sake of my sanity and my faith in humanity: please don't retort with an answer that boils down to "I'll hold my breath and scream and scream if I don't get what I want".
I'm asking nicely here.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Josef Djugashvilis
2892
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 22:32:17 -
[176] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Please, for the sake of my sanity and my faith in humanity: please don't retort with an answer that boils down to "I'll hold my breath and scream and scream if I don't get what I want".
I'm asking nicely here.
I was going to make a joke about Jenn A Whine, but cannot be bothered.
This is not a signature.
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Flamespar
WarRavens
1294
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 06:35:44 -
[177] - Quote
WiS didn't almost kill EVE. CCP did.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5166
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 10:23:00 -
[178] - Quote
I'ts a very one-sided article, and having been in companies where large layoffs have occured, ex-staff tend to be bitter and will say quite al ot of thing which stretch the truth at the very least.
At the end of the day, CCP had some staff, worked on some projects some didn't work out and they had to downsize to save cash. It happens every day. The funny thing is that often people who complain about things like this also complain about CCP trying to make EVE cater to a larger audience. So they want what? CCP to just sit there, let EVE slowly stagnate until they literally can't keep the company running on the funding they have and die as a company, just to keep EVE as it's always been? I doubt they plan on doing that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11877
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 10:27:52 -
[179] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: WiS didn't almost kill EVE. CCP did.
"The nuke didn't kill them, the fallout radiation did."
Yeah dude, WiS almost killed EVE. Because by wasting so much time, money, and development resources on Space Barbies, CCP earned themselves a technical debt that they will never be able to pay back.
Yes, it was their decision to engage in this folly that lead to it, but the root cause is the very concept of WiS ever being entertained in the first place.
Asking for it again is like asking Wile E. Coyote to tune up your car. It's not a matter of if he's going to **** it up, but how and just how badly it will hurt you.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5166
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 10:52:55 -
[180] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Flamespar wrote: WiS didn't almost kill EVE. CCP did.
"The nuke didn't kill them, the fallout radiation did." Yeah dude, WiS almost killed EVE. Because by wasting so much time, money, and development resources on Space Barbies, CCP earned themselves a technical debt that they will never be able to pay back. Yes, it was their decision to engage in this folly that lead to it, but the root cause is the very concept of WiS ever being entertained in the first place. Asking for it again is like asking Wile E. Coyote to tune up your car. It's not a matter of if he's going to **** it up, but how and just how badly it will hurt you. Lol? You can't honestly believe this, surely.
You believe out of all that has happened with CCP, that it was a decision to add avatars to EVE which caused their problems?
At the end of the day, WiS was a small project compared to something like Valkyrie, so why are you not off shooting a monument over that?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38840
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 11:21:46 -
[181] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Please, for the sake of my sanity and my faith in humanity: please don't retort with an answer that boils down to "I'll hold my breath and scream and scream if I don't get what I want".
I'm asking nicely here. Retort? Reading your colorful terms and embellishments tells me you're really not even worth a reply lol But I'll waste 5 mins of my time replying to you anyway because some people here have a modicum of respect for you.
Really, these days, the only "lalala"s or tears seem to be coming from people against a WiS-like concept. Avatar lovers? Well they're having a ton of fun with what's already here and enjoy talking about it and where it could go, it's exciting for those who're into it. That's all it is really. But that seems to irritate folks like you and you just won't stand for it, devoted to saving us from ourselves it seems.
Notice I use the term "WiS-like" and not "WiS", because I agree with you in the fact that the actual-WiS concept as we knew it before Incarna is gone. But I still believe we'll see something WiS-like at some point. So in the case of CCP are they talking about the old WiS concept? You seem to know, so you tell me. Or are they talking about every possible WiS-like concept?
So I guess essentially you're asking me, if I polish away the dirt from your posts, is why am I optimistic about it?
Well because over those 4 years that CCP have been saying they're not working on "WiS" they've still been quietly refining the avatar side of things, slowly releasing more items, engaging and taking the users seriously when we raise the topic (corbexx's TS workshop for instance). We're seeing the stigma vanish, we're regularly seeing enthusiastic or fun threads about avatars.
We're seeing more and more people enjoy it and CCP responding.
That's reason enough to be optimistic. But in addition of course in 1 or 2, maybe 5 or 10 years (who knows) time we'll see a ton of things changed or implimented here in EVE that aren't even on today's agenda or any agenda over the past 4 years or more.
I'm sorry if my optimism bugs you. But I play my EVE, not yours.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1582
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 12:40:39 -
[182] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:At the end of the day, CCP had some staff, worked on some projects some didn't work out and they had to downsize to save cash. It happens every day.
CCP tossed EIGHT (8!) years of work away and wrote of over 20 million.
"Some projects didn't work out". Holy moly, you sound like they build a sand castle on the beach on sunday and it washed away by high tide the next day and said "oh, well, **** happens."
EIGHT years, 8 long years and they where not able to come up with anything worthwhile. It was so nucking bad they had to kill it and with that in mind AND the incarna disaster, where CCP head quarters couldn't build 1 single room in a decent time frame, you must be living in fairytale land if you believe that CCP is in any near future able to create a meaningful* wis-like experience.
(*meaningful as in what CCP thinks is meaningful.) |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3776
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 13:02:42 -
[183] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I read it last June, damn good article. Reading that and knowing what happens to companies like CCP that get "too big for their britches" (which we have already experienced), it's hard to understand how people desire WiS or other thing that's aimed at making EVE 'bigger'. CCP is a great little company, they've done one epic thing (EVE Online, a spaceship sandbox game). In the 'not so great' column is 'everything else they tried that wasn't EVE or Spaceships'. Valkyrie might be their breakout second product, but we will have to wait to see actual results there. And, sad to say, it's about as far fro WiS as it's possible to get.
Valkyrie is a precious little problem, as It's based on some hardware which doesn't haves a release date... nor any known plans for getting one, actually.
Meanwhile competitor technologies aren't idling and the whole second wave of VR is aging before as much as being released...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11883
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 13:07:43 -
[184] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Valkyrie is a precious little problem, as It's based on some hardware which doesn't haves a release date... nor any known plans for getting one, actually.
Meanwhile competitor technologies aren't idling and the whole second wave of VR is aging before as much as being released...
I'll call it right now.
If they don't get that released by Holiday 2015, they are going to have to eat the production costs of Valkyrie.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3776
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 13:25:23 -
[185] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Valkyrie is a precious little problem, as It's based on some hardware which doesn't haves a release date... nor any known plans for getting one, actually.
Meanwhile competitor technologies aren't idling and the whole second wave of VR is aging before as much as being released...
I'll call it right now. If they don't get that released by Holiday 2015, they are going to have to eat the production costs of Valkyrie.
That's it... the road from greenlighting production to the hardware hitting the shelves is 6 months, roughly, and even longer if you need a serious massive production.
So in best case, in order to be ready for Xmas 2015, they need to grenlight the Rift no later than May 2015.
That's a mere 2 months from now. And if there's any hype on "Rrift is coming", I've missed it.
Now, if it's not for Xmas, when do you release such a product? Summer 2016? Unlikely. Xmas is the season. And so you have Valkyrie doing preciously nothing for a year...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 13:42:37 -
[186] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:If WiS was an optional component, akin to a separate game, but directly accessible through EVE, allowing it to act as a separate area with minigames and conference halls and whatnot, then there's nothing stopping them charging for it. I'd pay a one off fee for the addition of WiS to my account to allow me to walk about the station and such. They could even do payments by PLEX. Like a PLEX unlocks an accounts ability to use WiS for example, though I'd say the existing CQs should allow access to a Corp or Alliance meeting room for free. As long as it's not adding anything that's directly beneficial to EVE and is purely a sidegame, I don't see any issues with it beyond the standard complaint that any change would get.
For that matter WiS could actually be a separate game, i.e. a completely separate game client and subscription, with EVE integration on the same level as DUST. |
Feu dAstres
Nox Draconum Holding Corp Nox Draconum
5
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 14:10:08 -
[187] - Quote
Let's save the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth until after the last keynote of FanFest (only a month away), shall we? :-) |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
38842
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 14:22:49 -
[188] - Quote
Feu dAstres wrote:Let's save the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth until after the last keynote of FanFest (only a month away), shall we? :-) I'm not sure if we should expect anything or otherwise at FanFest, from either perspective.
For me it's merely a subject of interest and something I'm super-enthusiastic about. History has shown that things said or promised during FanFests don't always amount to much in the long run. Take this thread's very topic, for instance.
But I believe over time we'll see further avatar content here. No, I cannot quantify my optimism with a reference to anything CCP have said directly (sorry Malcanis), but I draw it instead from what I see going on around me right now ... and what CCP have been doing subtly.
Meantime I'm still having an absolute blast in EVE as things are, and am not demanding or screaming for anything at all.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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ACESsiggy
University of Caille
29
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 14:23:40 -
[189] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:At the end of the day, CCP had some staff, worked on some projects some didn't work out and they had to downsize to save cash. It happens every day.
CCP tossed EIGHT (8!) years of work away and wrote of over 20 million. "Some projects didn't work out". Holy moly, you sound like they build a sand castle on the beach on sunday and it washed away by high tide the next day and said "oh, well, **** happens." EIGHT years, 8 long years and they where not able to come up with anything worthwhile. It was so nucking bad they had to kill it and with that in mind AND the incarna disaster, where CCP head quarters couldn't build 1 single room in a decent time frame, you must be living in fairytale land if you believe that CCP is in any near future able to create a meaningful* wis-like experience. (*meaningful as in what CCP thinks is meaningful.)
I don't think they tossed it out completely. Hopefully if they do add WIS and build on what they've worked on in the past that they give it some meaning besides just socializing. Make certain things unique to WIS versus just docking up. Also what is important to me is how light it is on the video card. Currently in the CQ's my video card acts like I'm playing Modern Warfare or Battlefield4 game kicking it into overdrive with the fans.
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5168
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 17:17:48 -
[190] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:At the end of the day, CCP had some staff, worked on some projects some didn't work out and they had to downsize to save cash. It happens every day.
CCP tossed EIGHT (8!) years of work away and wrote of over 20 million. "Some projects didn't work out". Holy moly, you sound like they build a sand castle on the beach on sunday and it washed away by high tide the next day and said "oh, well, **** happens." EIGHT years, 8 long years and they where not able to come up with anything worthwhile. It was so nucking bad they had to kill it and with that in mind AND the incarna disaster, where CCP head quarters couldn't build 1 single room in a decent time frame, you must be living in fairytale land if you believe that CCP is in any near future able to create a meaningful* wis-like experience. (*meaningful as in what CCP thinks is meaningful.) Considering they've also built a first person shooter and a VR combat flight sim in recent years I see no reason to assume they'd be somehow too challenged by an avatar walkabout component for EVE. That said, I'm not suggesting they do actually make it, but if they were to choose to I'd be fine with it.
And what's released about what happened internally in CCP is hearsay by the way. Who knows how much actual work went into developing failed projects really. You can make assumptions that they must be terrible at developing if you want, but EVE's not exactly terrible, is it?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5168
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 17:20:05 -
[191] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:If WiS was an optional component, akin to a separate game, but directly accessible through EVE, allowing it to act as a separate area with minigames and conference halls and whatnot, then there's nothing stopping them charging for it. I'd pay a one off fee for the addition of WiS to my account to allow me to walk about the station and such. They could even do payments by PLEX. Like a PLEX unlocks an accounts ability to use WiS for example, though I'd say the existing CQs should allow access to a Corp or Alliance meeting room for free. As long as it's not adding anything that's directly beneficial to EVE and is purely a sidegame, I don't see any issues with it beyond the standard complaint that any change would get.
For that matter WiS could actually be a separate game, i.e. a completely separate game client and subscription, with EVE integration on the same level as DUST. They could, but the appeal to most players who like the idea is that it's another way to hang out in EVE.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9864
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 17:44:25 -
[192] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:At the end of the day, CCP had some staff, worked on some projects some didn't work out and they had to downsize to save cash. It happens every day.
CCP tossed EIGHT (8!) years of work away and wrote of over 20 million. "Some projects didn't work out". Holy moly, you sound like they build a sand castle on the beach on sunday and it washed away by high tide the next day and said "oh, well, **** happens." EIGHT years, 8 long years and they where not able to come up with anything worthwhile. It was so nucking bad they had to kill it and with that in mind AND the incarna disaster, where CCP head quarters couldn't build 1 single room in a decent time frame, you must be living in fairytale land if you believe that CCP is in any near future able to create a meaningful* wis-like experience. (*meaningful as in what CCP thinks is meaningful.)
There are indeed people who can't deal with the reality of a situation, who stuff their fingers in their ears and make noises to drown out the outside world lol. They exist in every aspect of life and in gaming, there is a reason I always bring up the "Infantry Crowd" in Tanks when talking about WiS people in EVE.
They don't really take the past in to account when thinking about something they want, so 8 years and 20 million dollars of failure (not to mention all the CAREERS of the actual human beings that were adversely affected by the whole Incarna Endeavor) doesn't mean anything to them. No, they want something and damn the realities and the real people involved. Personally, I don't dislike the WiS crowd because it's unrealistic, I dislike them because they are irresponsible,
The way they are kind of makes it futile to ask them "how many times do you have to hear the word no???" lol.
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Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 17:45:48 -
[193] - Quote
Youll see the same kind of posts in WiS threads that you see in conversations about highsec mining.
"It isn't the real EVE." "Everything in EVE is about shooting spaceships." "All ideas that don't involve exploding spaceships, specifically in highsec, are bad ideas." "You are less right when it comes to everything related to EVE because you don't focus 100% on things dying." "You deserve to be berated and insulted because you have preferences in the game that differ from mine."
etc. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9864
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 18:00:29 -
[194] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I'ts a very one-sided article, and having been in companies where large layoffs have occured, ex-staff tend to be bitter and will say quite al ot of thing which stretch the truth at the very least.
This is the part where someone is confronted with information counter to what they want to believe, and the 1st thing they do is attack the source. Now, it doesn't matter in the least to folks like this that they have NO counter-source saying otherwise (ie they have no reason to believe what they believe in the 1st place), all that matters is that they have a way to say "but look, he's probably not telling the truth because of reasons".
So Lucas, care to produce the article saying that everything was great and CCP is totally ready to shift gears into something else and this time it should work? We'll wait while you look that up, I suggest Google.
Quote: At the end of the day, CCP had some staff, worked on some projects some didn't work out and they had to downsize to save cash. It happens every day.
Step 2, minimize the reality of the actual disaster. That makes it look 'not so bad in the grand scheme' so eventually the thing they want to happen won't seem so impossible, even in their own brains.
Quote: The funny thing is that often people who complain about things like this also complain about CCP trying to make EVE cater to a larger audience. So they want what? CCP to just sit there, let EVE slowly stagnate until they literally can't keep the company running on the funding they have and die as a company, just to keep EVE as it's always been? I doubt they plan on doing that.
Step 3, EVE is dying. It will DIE if you don't give me this unreasonable, unrealistic something that a few of us think we want. It doesn't matter that it didn't die all these years despite people saying it would. NO THIS TIME FOR REAL.
(Step 4 is "OMFG that new game is coming, EVE better get it right before Star Trek Online, SWTOR SWG, Black Prophecy, Jumpgate, Elite:D Star Citizen comes out!!!!")
What do 'they' (we) want? CCP to keep doing EVE not space barbies. After Incarna CCP did what it shold have been doing, concentrating on EVE. Inadvertently, Incarna created a Golden Age of EVE online...for people who actually like EVE lol.
Saying the EVE will die or even stagnate without WiS is the same as saying "McDonalds better smarten up and start selling fried Squid and some kind of Spaghetti unless they want to lose everything". What 'we' are saying is "McDonalds should keep making hamburgers and fries and keep improving on that, screw the 'McSquid Deluxe with spaghetti fries'.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9864
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 18:02:22 -
[195] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:Youll see the same kind of posts in WiS threads that you see in conversations about highsec mining.
"It isn't the real EVE." "Everything in EVE is about shooting spaceships." "All ideas that don't involve exploding spaceships, specifically in highsec, are bad ideas." "You are less right when it comes to everything related to EVE because you don't focus 100% on things dying." "You deserve to be berated and insulted because you have preferences in the game that differ from mine."
etc.
Step 5, tell yourself nonsense things (basically lies) that make you feel better for ignoring the actual realities of the situation.
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
178
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 18:27:07 -
[196] - Quote
In my opinion, what the forumusers means, i dont think reflects the overall opinion of EVE players. Usually the negative voices kills the positive voices pretty fast, if they cant manage to kill the positive voices, they just get the thread locked :D It would be much more interesting to see what the players means With using a ingame voting for their opinion about WiS.... but again, i dont think that ever will happen anyways.
WiS... its like Atlantis, it died many ages ago... |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5168
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 22:48:57 -
[197] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:This is the part where someone is confronted with information counter to what they want to believe, and the 1st thing they do is attack the source. Now, it doesn't matter in the least to folks like this that they have NO counter-source saying otherwise (ie they have no reason to believe what they believe in the 1st place), all that matters is that they have a way to say "but look, he's probably not telling the truth because of reasons".
So Lucas, care to produce the article saying that everything was great and CCP is totally ready to shift gears into something else and this time it should work? We'll wait while you look that up, I suggest Google. Lol, OK, so I'm supposed to take the word of an employee that left the company because he disliked it during a time when heaps of people were being laid off as gospel? Sorry mate, but I've been employed too long and seen too many people who come out of that exact situation to simply believe what they are saying without some of it being exaggerated.
And no, there likely isn't an opposing article as often times current employees happy with their job are discouraged from commenting on the internals of the company. What I do know is that EVE is still here, still actively developed, not riddled with bugs and proceeding with content updated while 2 other games are in active development. That tells me that behind the scenes it's not all doom and gloom.
Jenn aSide wrote:Step 2, minimize the reality of the actual disaster. That makes it look 'not so bad in the grand scheme' so eventually the thing they want to happen won't seem so impossible, even in their own brains. Disaster? Get a grip. They had a section of the business that wasn't making money, needed to bring that in so they downsized. That's not disaster. When you're in a business where you turn up for work and have to wait for the stocks to open to see if you are still employed, that's a disaster. You say I'm minimizing the actuality of it? I'm saying you're overstating it.
Jenn aSide wrote:Step 3, EVE is dying. It will DIE if you don't give me this unreasonable, unrealistic something that a few of us think we want. It doesn't matter that it didn't die all these years despite people saying it would. NO THIS TIME FOR REAL.
(Step 4 is "OMFG that new game is coming, EVE better get it right before Star Trek Online, SWTOR SWG, Black Prophecy, Jumpgate, Elite:D Star Citizen comes out!!!!") I didn't stte EVE is dying, I asked what people like you expect CCP to do. The game is not really attracting new players and players are being lost to natural attrition. While that doesn't mean EVE is dying, it certainly means they need to look at how to improve player retention. You don't want that though. You want CCP to not change anything because it's all to precious.
And I didn't mention any other games, so you're pulling that on out of your ass.
Jenn aSide wrote:What do 'they' (we) want? CCP to keep doing EVE not space barbies. After Incarna CCP did what it shold have been doing, concentrating on EVE. Inadvertently, Incarna created a Golden Age of EVE online...for people who actually like EVE lol.
Saying the EVE will die or even stagnate without WiS is the same as saying "McDonalds better smarten up and start selling fried Squid and some kind of Spaghetti unless they want to lose everything". What 'we' are saying is "McDonalds should keep making hamburgers and fries and keep improving on that, screw the 'McSquid Deluxe with spaghetti fries'. And why can't EVE have both types of gameplay? It wouldn't affect you in the slightest. You care so much that everyone has to play exactly how you want them to play. Well some people like WiS, and if CCP ever decide to revisit it, that's a fair decision to make.
And if a lot of customers wanted the McSquid Deluxe and McDonalds could make it as well as all of it's existing products, why wouldn't they do both? The answer is pretty simple, they do in fact serve certain types of food in areas where it is favoured. So if a good protion of EVE players start wanting WiS, why not have it?
And further, how is it different from ship skins? People went out of their minds when people originally suggested ship skins, and yet now that it's in, noone seems to care. WiS would be the same. People like yourself will complain about basically every idea, but when it's in you'll realise "oh, this actually doesn't affect me" then carry on.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
12
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 23:06:45 -
[198] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:This is the part where someone is confronted with information counter to what they want to believe, and the 1st thing they do is attack the source. Now, it doesn't matter in the least to folks like this that they have NO counter-source saying otherwise (ie they have no reason to believe what they believe in the 1st place), all that matters is that they have a way to say "but look, he's probably not telling the truth because of reasons".
So Lucas, care to produce the article saying that everything was great and CCP is totally ready to shift gears into something else and this time it should work? We'll wait while you look that up, I suggest Google. Lol, OK, so I'm supposed to take the word of an employee that left the company because he disliked it during a time when heaps of people were being laid off as gospel? Sorry mate, but I've been employed too long and seen too many people who come out of that exact situation to simply believe what they are saying without some of it being exaggerated. And no, there likely isn't an opposing article as often times current employees happy with their job are discouraged from commenting on the internals of the company. What I do know is that EVE is still here, still actively developed, not riddled with bugs and proceeding with content updated while 2 other games are in active development. That tells me that behind the scenes it's not all doom and gloom. Jenn aSide wrote:Step 2, minimize the reality of the actual disaster. That makes it look 'not so bad in the grand scheme' so eventually the thing they want to happen won't seem so impossible, even in their own brains. Disaster? Get a grip. They had a section of the business that wasn't making money, needed to bring that in so they downsized. That's not disaster. When you're in a business where you turn up for work and have to wait for the stocks to open to see if you are still employed, that's a disaster. You say I'm minimizing the actuality of it? I'm saying you're overstating it. Jenn aSide wrote:Step 3, EVE is dying. It will DIE if you don't give me this unreasonable, unrealistic something that a few of us think we want. It doesn't matter that it didn't die all these years despite people saying it would. NO THIS TIME FOR REAL.
(Step 4 is "OMFG that new game is coming, EVE better get it right before Star Trek Online, SWTOR SWG, Black Prophecy, Jumpgate, Elite:D Star Citizen comes out!!!!") I didn't stte EVE is dying, I asked what people like you expect CCP to do. The game is not really attracting new players and players are being lost to natural attrition. While that doesn't mean EVE is dying, it certainly means they need to look at how to improve player retention. You don't want that though. You want CCP to not change anything because it's all to precious. And I didn't mention any other games, so you're pulling that on out of your ass. Jenn aSide wrote:What do 'they' (we) want? CCP to keep doing EVE not space barbies. After Incarna CCP did what it shold have been doing, concentrating on EVE. Inadvertently, Incarna created a Golden Age of EVE online...for people who actually like EVE lol.
Saying the EVE will die or even stagnate without WiS is the same as saying "McDonalds better smarten up and start selling fried Squid and some kind of Spaghetti unless they want to lose everything". What 'we' are saying is "McDonalds should keep making hamburgers and fries and keep improving on that, screw the 'McSquid Deluxe with spaghetti fries'. And why can't EVE have both types of gameplay? It wouldn't affect you in the slightest. You care so much that everyone has to play exactly how you want them to play. Well some people like WiS, and if CCP ever decide to revisit it, that's a fair decision to make. And if a lot of customers wanted the McSquid Deluxe and McDonalds could make it as well as all of it's existing products, why wouldn't they do both? The answer is pretty simple, they do in fact serve certain types of food in areas where it is favoured. So if a good protion of EVE players start wanting WiS, why not have it? And further, how is it different from ship skins? People went out of their minds when people originally suggested ship skins, and yet now that it's in, noone seems to care. WiS would be the same. People like yourself will complain about basically every idea, but when it's in you'll realise "oh, this actually doesn't affect me" then carry on.
Dude ITS A FACT ccp lost millions of dollars and man-hours with....
1) World of Darkness Vampire MMO 2) Incarnia/Walking in Stations 3) Dust
4) probably valkiry 5) probably any other non-internet spaceship sandbox thing they do
Ccp has admitted they lost millions on each of those first 3 dude. You deny it.
Also to all the Omg save thr newbros/retention so ccp will get more money so eve doesnt die/we get better stuff/etc If ccp gets more money, they will either funnel it to non-eve things or just totally waste it |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9871
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 23:17:43 -
[199] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And why can't EVE have both types of gameplay?
What we're talking about isn't 'gameplay'. And EVE can't have both types because the company that makes EVE cannot deliver it AND if they could it would be an attempt to bring to EVE the kinds of people who wouldn't have been attracted to it otherwise.
What you want would laterally amount to this 5 Star Restaurant adding a dollar menu just to get more people off the street.
The real problem you have is some kind of weird/funky egalitarian sensibility that doesn't allow you to understand why exclusivity is a good thing for a video game (or 5 star restaurant or night club etc). The funniest thing is that you don't realize that you'd probably be amongst the people that hated a more inclusive EVE and it's more inclusive community' lol, because you'd then understand why that is bad.
Quote: It wouldn't affect you in the slightest. You care so much that everyone has to play exactly how you want them to play. Well some people like WiS, and if CCP ever decide to revisit it, that's a fair decision to make.
And this is the part that demonstrates your emotional inability to see a truth you disagree with. I don't care about how people play. I play Star Trek Online and I don't sit around thinking "look at all these mofo waking around on feet, someone needs to put a stop to this MADNESS!!" STO has walking around the game was built with that in mind and it's find other than the slightly annoying session change/pause you get going from space game to avatar game.
EVE wasn't build for it, trying to tack it on to EVE was one the dumbest things CCP did, and if they decide to 'revisit' it means they have no institutional memory.
If you want to play a walking around game, most games do that. EVE doesn't so your 'I want to walk around in EVE" thing isn't a 'valid playstyle', it's delusional stupidity.
Quote: And if a lot of customers wanted the McSquid Deluxe and McDonalds could make it as well as all of it's existing products, why wouldn't they do both? The answer is pretty simple, they do in fact serve certain types of food in areas where it is favoured. So if a good protion of EVE players start wanting WiS, why not have it?
Listening to customer is always the exact right way to go. Always.
I sincerely hope that you are not In charge of a business that others rely on for their livelihoods, because your inability to see objective truth and willingness to cling to outdated and debunked wisdom wouldn't keep that business going for long.
Quote: And further, how is it different from ship skins? People went out of their minds when people originally suggested ship skins, and yet now that it's in, noone seems to care. WiS would be the same. People like yourself will complain about basically every idea, but when it's in you'll realise "oh, this actually doesn't affect me" then carry on.
Step 6, reach for a ridicules and extreme piece of BS rather than concede. The difference here my dear chap (damn, hanging around with Brits too much) that if anyone had a problem with ship skins or such, they were wrong, where as the actual history of EVE online means that "WiS skeptics' are right.
You (meaning the WiS crowd in general) can dislike the facts, and the truth (that CCP isn't doing WiS anytime soon, if at all). You can keep begging for CCP to forget it's past and gamble their real , actual pay checks so a fringe minority of video game players ca have avatar play (rather than just choosing a game that already has it, like I did with STO). But you aren't ever going to get anywhere, so it's your time wasted.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7817
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 23:31:44 -
[200] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: Dude ITS A FACT ccp lost millions of dollars and man-hours with....
1) World of Darkness Vampire MMO 2) Incarnia/Walking in Stations 3) Dust
If the Ivory soap company lost millions trying to develop salted pork scented soap that for some reason wasn't a hit with consumers, I wouldn't care. As long as they still had a reasonably priced basic product.
Same for this game. I don't give a **** how much they lost making other failed projects as long as EVE is a reasonably priced basic game.
Why people equate stagnation with quality is beyond me. If a company doesn't try to surpass itself, it will fail in the long run. If CCP wasn't bold and forward thinking, we'd never have seen EVE hit beta let alone be constantly improving over 11 years. That same bold thinking is what led to the creation attempt of these other CCP projects. Not every project will be successful, but it would be disappointing if they stopped trying.
It's not about the money, Lebowski. It's about the product. And judging by the longevity of this game, the product is just fine.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Alcaman
Followers of Odin
1
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 23:32:04 -
[201] - Quote
So many people have so much invested emotions in this topic! I just want to add some sensibility with these wize words, that comes from Odin himself: "Aaaargh! stop the annoying bickering... You guys are taking this way toooo seriously"
So, people.. Give each other a hug and ..... But wait.. We need WiS station in order for that to happen!!
I guess WiS concept won! Wohoo!
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22830
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 23:40:19 -
[202] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: If the Ivory soap company lost millions trying to develop salted pork scented soap that for some reason wasn't a hit with consumers, I wouldn't care. As long as they still had a reasonably priced basic product.
In this particular case, the Ivory Soap Company tried to make a Bath Tissue product, and did so by neglecting their core product, in a way that brought on the ire of their soap customers.
Then, the Ivory Soap company bought someone else's Bath Tissue product and tried to make it an Ivory Soap Company product, but they had to scrap the whole thing and excise that part of the company.
If now someone brings up Bath Tissue again, do you think it's inappropriate that people bring up two previous failed attempts, one (or possibly both) of which had a detrimental effect on the core product?
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7818
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 23:52:17 -
[203] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Mr Epeen wrote: If the Ivory soap company lost millions trying to develop salted pork scented soap that for some reason wasn't a hit with consumers, I wouldn't care. As long as they still had a reasonably priced basic product.
In this particular case, the Ivory Soap Company tried to make a Bath Tissue product, and did so by neglecting their core product, in a way that brought on the ire of their soap customers. Then, the Ivory Soap company bought someone else's Bath Tissue product and tried to make it an Ivory Soap Company product, but they had to scrap the whole thing and excise that part of the company. If now someone brings up Bath Tissue again, do you think it's inappropriate that people bring up two previous failed attempts, one (or possibly both) of which had a detrimental effect on the core product? Like I said, I don't care as long as I can buy a bar of Ivory soap at a reasonable price. This I can, and have always been, able to do.
Just like EVE. I can, and have always been, able to play this game at a reasonable price. So why should I care what they're doing with their R&D funds.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22831
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 23:55:40 -
[204] - Quote
Yeah EVE has been EVE and it's still affordable (to me) and fun.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
178
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 23:59:29 -
[205] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:[quote=Carrie-Anne Moss] It's not about the money, Lebowski. It's about the product. And judging by the longevity of this game, the product is just fine. Mr Epeen
Actually, if the game was "just fine", i dont think there would be so much questions about changes or other forms of additions to the game.
In my opinion, i belive EVE would attract more players With WiS, which could give players a break from "just" flying in Space... or other additions that would expand the experience of EVE. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
935
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 00:05:08 -
[206] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. The arrogance of the forum people still astonishes me after all this time. If CCP caved every time you people had a tantrum this game would be radically altered on a daily basis. The truth of the matter is that CCP developed a flawed system that was never going to be viable and used that particular player meltdown to back out of it with some dignity left. Much better to let the player base believe that they have some input in how the game should be than admit they wasted years developing a broken mechanic. Win/win for CCP. Mr Epeen
It worked for Japan in 1945 too.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5168
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 00:24:34 -
[207] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Dude ITS A FACT ccp lost millions of dollars and man-hours with....
1) World of Darkness Vampire MMO 2) Incarnia/Walking in Stations 3) Dust
4) probably valkiry 5) probably any other non-internet spaceship sandbox thing they do
Ccp has admitted they lost millions on each of those first 3 dude. You deny it.
Also to all the Omg save thr newbros/retention so ccp will get more money so eve doesnt die/we get better stuff/etc If ccp gets more money, they will either funnel it to non-eve things or just totally waste it At no point am I saying they didn't lose on those. What I'm saying is swoppig on here knowing only that and having an article based on something an ex-employeed said doesn't condemn the company. They are professional developer running a successful MMORPG with constant updates.
And note, I'm not asking for WiS, what I'm saying is that CCP are competent enough to do it if they felt like it. I don't give a flying **** if you despise them so much you think they are incompetent.
Finally, what they spend their money on is none of your business. If you don't like what they are doing, stop funding them. If they want to spend it making a giant boat out of cake and sailing off into the ocean, that's their decision. Player retention is important to them because they are a business. I get that you don't care whether or not their business is successful but they probably do.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5168
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 00:29:27 -
[208] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:What we're talking about isn't 'gameplay'. And with that I'm done discussing this with you. All you ever do is troll, and to be quite honest I get tired of you being negative about every goddamn thing anyone suggests or does. You think the game is crap you think the direction CCP are going is bad and you think their developers are incompetent, so why the hell are you even still here?
My point is simple. If CCP want to make WiS they bloody well can and I'd be fine with it. If they ever do and you decide to quit because of it, well then they win twice, don't they?
And neither of those questions require an answer, since I can already tell you that nothing you write in response to them will be worth reading since they'll either just be more trolling, or desperate twisting of words.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9871
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 02:54:34 -
[209] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:What we're talking about isn't 'gameplay'. And with that I'm done discussing this with you. All you ever do is troll, and to be quite honest I get tired of you being negative about every goddamn thing anyone suggests or does. You think the game is crap you think the direction CCP are going is bad and you think their developers are incompetent, so why the hell are you even still here?
LOL psychological projection.
Of the two of us, I'm the one who LIKES CCP, what EVE is and actually likes the EVE community (I simply think CCP. If I have something negative to say about something, it's because it's a stupid idea, usually from someone who doesn't actually like EVE Online but rather than quit and play something else they stay and beg CCP to change an entire game (that I happen to like), in your case to 'be more inclusive'.
If you think telling the truth is a troll, then you need to do some soul searching friend. I'm not your problem, your incredibly foolish way of thinking is.
[/quote] My point is simple. If CCP want to make WiS they bloody well can and I'd be fine with it. If they ever do and you decide to quit because of it, well then they win twice, don't they?[/quote]
I don't like you and you don't like me, that's fine, but my dislike of you is based on your inability to see both reason and reality. That's a you problem.
CCP will do what they wish, I and others will simply tell them the truth about what they are doing instead of pretending that everything is ok like some sycophant.
Quote: And neither of those questions require an answer, since I can already tell you that nothing you write in response to them will be worth reading since they'll either just be more trolling, or desperate twisting of words.
It's can only be a liar who construes the truth as 'twisting of words'. Good day sir.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1928
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 03:51:59 -
[210] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: In this particular case, the Ivory Soap Company tried to make a Bath Tissue product, and did so by neglecting their core product, in a way that brought on the ire of their soap customers.
Then, the Ivory Soap company bought someone else's Bath Tissue product and tried to make it an Ivory Soap Company product, but they had to scrap the whole thing and excise that part of the company.
If now someone brings up Bath Tissue again, do you think it's inappropriate that people bring up two previous failed attempts, one (or possibly both) of which had a detrimental effect on the core product?
Except you are rewriting history. The ire was caused by 2 things. Firstly by peoples video cards that actually caught on fire or melted down from the super super laggy CQ at the time, because there were faults in the rendering somewhere that actually caused real hardware issues. Secondly, by the leaked greed is good memo.
The concept of WiS was nothing to do with the Jita riots, the protests or any of the rest of it. People liked the concept of WiS as it was meant to have been developed with game features. Not just pretty fluff.
But. If you want to insist on rewriting history, go right ahead, you obviously aren't interesting in listening to reason. |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
969
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 03:58:40 -
[211] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Meanwhile in other news, the improved opportunities based NPE will make the new players start in space. I'll be shocked if the CQ becomes a part of the opportunities system. (Seriously: "Enter your Captain's Quarters -> Walk around your Captain's Quarters-> Sit on the couch -> Stand up again -> Congratulations!") I'll be a little surprised if the CQ still is a part of the client by Fanfest 2016, too. I imagine Hilmar punching himself in the face repeatedly now. I think there is probably a self righting doll that looks like him in the CCP offices.
.... I wonder if they would do requests. Look all mangled in a wheel chair ... no flirting in the pub then.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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DaReaper
Net 7
1799
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 04:08:35 -
[212] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Once CCP finishes Legion and Phoenix,
whats phoenix?
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22856
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 04:30:12 -
[213] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: The ire was caused by 2 things. Firstly by peoples video cards that actually caught on fire or melted down from the super super laggy CQ at the time, because there were faults in the rendering somewhere that actually caused real hardware issues. Secondly, by the leaked greed is good memo.
The concept of WiS was nothing to do with the Jita riots, the protests or any of the rest of it. People liked the concept of WiS as it was meant to have been developed with game features. Not just pretty fluff.
But. If you want to insist on rewriting history, go right ahead, you obviously aren't interesting in listening to reason.
No rewrite. Aralyn provides a full summary of contributing reasons, the most agregious of which is:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:18 months - Set the stage by creating an undercurrent of neglect in EvE, and creating an expectation of WiS ("we better get something worth the loss of 18 months of EvE developement")
Ask anyone naysayer in this thread why they oppose WiS. This is the prime reason. Development of the main game elements losing ground because of shifted resources to an unrelated, unconnected aspect of the game is a legitimate concern. As far as I can tell, it is one of the reasons CCP isn't developing WiS right now.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
969
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 04:59:55 -
[214] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:WiS is a prime example of trying to run before you can walk. Character Creator has 2 developers assigned to it. Think about that before you start shooting for the moon. Unless there is a strong link between the EVE the game and WiS, CCP will not develop it in any way, shape, or form. This was clearly stated in the last conference call between CCP and players on this topic. Ever played with Morrowind world creator tool or done some design in Second Life? Making a spawn point for a character is hardly a new and huge piece of code. Invite people into your Captain's Quarters would be a big difference for a small effort. I don't actually understand why it is not implemented already.
(You pay micro transactions for items that change your appearance. You need to be able to stand around displaying those things and chatting about how marvellous you all look, to feel you got your value for money.)
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22856
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 05:13:33 -
[215] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ever played with Morrowind world creator tool or done some design in Second Life? Making a spawn point for a character is hardly a new and huge piece of code. Invite people into your Captain's Quarters would be a big difference for a small effort. I don't actually understand why it is not implemented already.
(You pay micro transactions for items that change your appearance. You need to be able to stand around displaying those things and chatting about how marvellous you all look, to feel you got your value for money.)
I can't say I have tried either of those. I've tried the character maker in Runescape, which was flexible enough for me to choose blue hair and a yellow jumpsuit. If options are available, as they are in EVE, I would be remiss not to experiment with them.
I'm not arguing that people don't want something like WiS, nor am I arguing that it is of no worth.. this is a game, after all, and 99% of what we do is a complete waste of time.
Any engineering project is requires time, resources, and money and never are all three available in plentiful supply. Do we want SOV changes? Then we can't have WiS. Do we want POS code to be fixed? Then we can't have WiS. This the reality, folks. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we can collaborate to drive meaningful, realistic changes in Character Creator instead of this stream of consciousness opium dream kitchen sink vision people keep referring to.
Seriously.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4287
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 05:29:35 -
[216] - Quote
what is soap |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
969
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 05:33:10 -
[217] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Making a spawn point for a character is hardly a new and huge piece of code. Invite people into your Captain's Quarters would be a big difference for a small effort. I don't actually understand why it is not implemented already. Any engineering project is requires time, resources, and money and never are all three available in plentiful supply. Do we want SOV changes? Then we can't have WiS. ... stream of consciousness opium dream kitchen sink vision people keep referring to. Seriously. I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations.
(Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.)
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Jishi Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 07:17:47 -
[218] - Quote
I want EVE to be an immersive SciFi universe. Dust 514, Valkyrie and Legion: all great ideas. All trying to appeal to different sections of SciFi fandom. It's not bad to try new things, but the way these have been implemented in the past have left the community discouraged.
Ever since Incarna when everyone was left speechless with how a great looking tech demo was launched as a single room that doubled as a morgue for spontaneously combusting graphics cards and ever since all of the promises we were given about connectivity between Dust and EVE was revealed to be nothing more than an occasional orbital strike the community has been skittish about side projects. Valkyrie has been garnering attention due to the advent of VR gaming and Legion will hopefully reconcile Dust 514 rather than simply cutting it off like a gangrenous arm.
It's clear the Devs aren't satisfied with just spaceships. Considering the EVE concept was to be a fleshed out scifi universe they really shouldn't be either. We have all of this cool lore and the potential to use it.
So, yes I want WiS to happen. I want the Devs to keep trying new things. I love the spaceships and would still spend most of my time out in one, but that doesn't mean we should stop at spaceships. We just need to have better interconnectivity between all of these cool things. That's where we go wrong.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5168
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 08:29:39 -
[219] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Of the two of us, I'm the one who LIKES CCP, what EVE is and actually likes the EVE community (I simply think CCP. If I have something negative to say about something, it's because it's a stupid idea, usually from someone who doesn't actually like EVE Online but rather than quit and play something else they stay and beg CCP to change an entire game (that I happen to like), in your case to 'be more inclusive'. Except your argument against WiS is that you think CCP are incompetent developers and will somehow ruin everything by adding avatars. I on the other hand have no problem with them putting in features even if I wouldn't use them as long as they don't affect the rest of the game - which WiS wouldn't.
And bear in mind EVE was designed to be an immersive virtual world. I'm all for changes which allow that to happen in more situations.
Jenn aSide wrote:I don't like you and you don't like me, that's fine, but my dislike of you is based on your inability to see both reason and reality. That's a you problem. Lol? I can't see reason? You don't want WiS because... what? It wouldn't affect you in the slightest. And yet you still complain. I don't actually think I've seen you ever agree with any idea before. I'm sure it must have happened, but the fact that people know you as someone that will automatically whine, surely that says something about your views and how reasonable they are?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5168
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 08:32:59 -
[220] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Ask anyone naysayer in this thread why they oppose WiS. This is the prime reason. Development of the main game elements losing ground because of shifted resources to an unrelated, unconnected aspect of the game is a legitimate concern. As far as I can tell, it is one of the reasons CCP isn't developing WiS right now. But that's already happening. Why aren't the same people who opposed WiS out there right now putting up complaint threads and shooting monuments because CCP is developing Valkyrie? That will shift resources too, so why is that not a problem but WiS would be if it were developed once Valkyrie was done?
Again, not saying they should, just I don't get why the argument only applies to one and not the other.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22870
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Posted - 2015.02.23 10:00:04 -
[221] - Quote
It's simple Lucas. We want CCP to sell another game. We want them to be really successful at it. At the same time, no one in thread has provided a cogent argument that EVE needs WIS for subs. EVE sells itself without WIS, always has. So why implement it? It's better, as the argument goes, to develop the core game which is what is bringing in subs in the first place.
Is anyone arguing that EVE is going to die if it never had WIS?
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations.
(Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.)
You are trivializing the development effort. Neither history, nor CCP's direct statements to us on this matter agree with you.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5169
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 10:29:21 -
[222] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:It's simple Lucas. We want CCP to sell another game. We want them to be really successful at it. At the same time, no one in thread has provided a cogent argument that EVE needs WIS for subs. EVE sells itself without WIS, always has. So why implement it? It's better, as the argument goes, to develop the core game which is what is bringing in subs in the first place. So why not sell WiS? If CCP released a separate game of walking around your avatar, I'd not buy it. Hell, I'm not going to buy Valkyrie either. But if they sold WiS as an additional component to EVE and it integrated into the game, I'd pay for that.
Then again, if it can be done in a reasonable amount of time, why not implement it? They've just rebuilt the way that ships are rendered to make it easier to do skins and such. That's a purely cosmetic change and won't bring in players any more than WiS would, yet that change is not argued against either.
At the end of the day, what all these types of changes do is add more depth and more style to EVE. WiS would do exactly the same.
Sibyyl wrote:Is anyone arguing that EVE is going to die if it never had WIS? Of course not. It's a nice to have rather than a need to have.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22870
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 10:47:36 -
[223] - Quote
I'd think that at that point it becomes a CCP marketing question. One could argue that WoD was WIS the game, and it encountered both development and marketing hurdles. Companies may also be reluctant to pursue an avenue marked by previous failures. It's just bad luck. People don't like to revisit what hasn't worked.
Also, as others have argued, most other MMOs are essentially WIS the game. These games are able to deliver a walking/3rd person experience at scale, with tens of characters on the same screen as a normal part of how they function.
Nice to have? There are many of these in EVE and in life. I like conversing in terms of can haves. Vastly reduce the product definition, account for the development resources at hand (in our case, 2 developers), and facilitate a dialog that doesn't involve complaining or whining. I think that's productive.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5170
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 11:35:27 -
[224] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Also, as others have argued, most other MMOs are essentially WIS the game. These games are able to deliver a walking/3rd person experience at scale, with tens of characters on the same screen as a normal part of how they function. They aren't, because they aren't EVE. It's not your EVE persona walking about in those games doing what you do in EVE, and that's what makes it different. You're flying around in your ship, hen you dock up and are going to chat to a few people do some marketing, maybe open a browser and play some poker or something. Being able to to that same thing in game would be considerably more fun.
Have you played Test Drive Unlimited 2 at all? It's a good open world racing game. In that though there's a casino you can go to and gamble, play cards, etc. I loved playing TDU2 because it gave that variety in play. Sure, I could just play another virtual gambling game, likely could find a dedicated one that is much better, but the ability to do it all in the one game made it that much better. That's the way I see WiS. It would add to the variety in EVE. It wouldn't need to be a full on game in it's own right, just a way to change how you escape within EVE.
Sibyyl wrote:Nice to have? There are many of these in EVE and in life. I like conversing in terms of can haves. Vastly reduce the product definition, account for the development resources at hand (in our case, 2 developers), and facilitate a dialog that doesn't involve complaining or whining. I think that's productive. Can haves and nice to haves do line up though. I'm a developer too, and we make changes all the time that aren't actually needed, but do improve the experience, so nice to have rather than need. We could just chuck those out and only do what is needed and everything would still work as intended, but then you're missing out on things that improve the user experience.
I see WiS the same way. Obviously the core game mechanics should come first, always. But if they chose to add to the WiS idea beyond your CQ, then I'd be all for it, since all it does is add to the user experience. Sure, some users might not use it, but many would, and they'd enjoy it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9872
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 13:25:20 -
[225] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Except your argument against WiS is that you think CCP are incompetent developers and will somehow ruin everything by adding avatars.
That's just you reading into my posts what you want to (and displaying that dishonesty trait again). Being realistic about what someone can do, along with actually looking at what happens in the past should inform one's opinion about the viability of something they want to see happen. This doesn't happen with you. and yet people who are realistic are somehow wrong.
Quote: I on the other hand have no problem with them putting in features even if I wouldn't use them as long as they don't affect the rest of the game - which WiS wouldn't.
You know it's not about 'features'. As long as you've been posting you've been in the 'eve needs more subs!!!" camp, and you've not display a great deal of liking for the EVE community. You like the idea of WiS because you think it will attract more of the kinds of people you like and less of the kinds you don't like. I don't expect you to admit to that, but your agenda is so transparent anyone with half an eye and a quarter of a braincell can see it.
Quote: And bear in mind EVE was designed to be an immersive virtual world. I'm all for changes which allow that to happen in more situations.
EVE was not designed to be anything of the sort, if it was it wouldn't be a multi-year pain the ass to change things like POSes and add new NPCs. EVE was envisioned to eventually be be an immersive virtual world, but designed to be a space ship game with a market (with the rest to come at some future point).
CCP tried. They tried with walking in stations, EVA exploration, Atmospheric flight. They tried with the EVE-DUST connect. For the most part they failed. It wasn't incompetence, it was overconfidence coupled with and unrealistic worldview. The same things you display.
Hopefully they've learned from the past (They've done pretty damn good since Incarna except for all the safety crap). Perhaps one day you will follow them.
Quote:Lol? I can't see reason? You don't want WiS because... what? It wouldn't affect you in the slightest. And yet you still complain.
I am an EVE Player. A thing doesn't need to 'affect me personally' for me to have an opinion on it. Which is a moot point because in EVE, everything affects everyone else in some way. And in influx of non-EVE players who just come for the space barbies (who will then need and demand support from CCP, a smallish Icleandic game company that has in the past not displayed the best customer service capabilities....). CCP would have to grow to accommodate such types, and we saw what happened the last time CCP got to big.
At the bottom of all this is your inability to percieve both reality and threats (to something you like, if you could perceive them the last thing you'd want is more MMO type gamers in EVE), which is a sympotom of over-optimistic personality types. I don't want the game I enjoy to get ghettoized like every single themepark MMO I've ever played.
Quote: I don't actually think I've seen you ever agree with any idea before. I'm sure it must have happened, but the fact that people know you as someone that will automatically whine, surely that says something about your views and how reasonable they are?
No, it says something about those people's inability to understand the world they live in. I've supported plenty of good things in EVE, it's just that damn near no one proposes good things in those forum and F&I, it's always BS like walking in stations, 'fix ganking/awoxxing/afk cloaking' or other nonsense.
Thats why history keeps repeating itself (in real life and in video games) because people don't pay attention to how things actually work, in the same way as YOU would repeat Incarna even if you did not intend to.
Idealism is great as long as you keep the ideas that come from them to yourself. Life demands a more pragmatic and practical approach (except in the West it seems, thus the term '1st world problems').
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
197
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 13:43:27 -
[226] - Quote
pretty much what i said, it would be a complete new game (DLC?) demanding ccp to probably double its workforce to accomodate new features and additions on top of eve's core game, it would affect gameplay for everyone because you are creating an alternative to flying a spaceship in space (fck ship spinning during wardec lets go walk around the station and do whatever you can do in the station), possibly destroying a lot of playstyles for others, next people will want facebook integration and isk for shares and trinkets.
where would it end with what you can do in the station and what would you do apart from alliance meetings and microtransactions?
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9872
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 13:50:33 -
[227] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:pretty much what i said, it would be a complete new game (DLC?) demanding ccp to probably double its workforce to accomodate new features and additions on top of eve's core game, it would affect gameplay for everyone because you are creating an alternative to flying a spaceship in space (fck ship spinning during wardec lets go walk around the station and do whatever you can do in the station), possibly destroying a lot of playstyles for others, next people will want facebook integration and isk for shares and trinkets.
where would it end with what you can do in the station and what would you do apart from alliance meetings and microtransactions?
The whole thing resembles discussions about Infantry in World of Tanks. The 'Infantry ideas' folks basically want a whole 'nother game (while steadfastly refusing to play the numerous other war games that have infantry lol, saying "BUT I LOVE WoT!, why should i have to play another game!!!!").
The folks telling them it's a dumb idea are telling them how it would negatively affect Wargamming (makers of WoT) and could lead to a universally crappy experience because WoT isn't designed for infantry. None of that matters to them, they want Infantry and (and i'm not kidding, they say this) "SO MANY MORE PEOPLE WILL PLAY WoT BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE LIKES JUST TANKS" lmao.
So it's not just an EVE thing, there are crazy people dissatisfied with what they got all over Earth lol. |
Kaleen Khadath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 13:58:33 -
[228] - Quote
Whether WiS is the way to go or not, I expect we'll know within a year. At this point, there's no sense in rocking the boat just yet.
Both, Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous are promising WiS as core gameplay at some point soon. I'm not sure when Elite plans to start delivering it, but Star Citizen's WiS module is supposed to be hitting beta late Spring or early Summer of this year. And release with the full game late in the year, or most likely this time next year. In short, we'll be able to see how well-received (or poorly-received) WiS will be in at least two other space sims. If people absolutely love it, it'll be a pretty clear sign that it should be revisited. If both those games fail to deliver, and/or it's poorly received, that'll also be a clear signal to avoid it.
Besides, with CCPs development speed, even if they did decide to do it, it would take a couple of years anyway, so might as well sit back and watch what happens with the other guys first.
One bad thing could happen though, if the mechanic is well-received. Namely, people may start to see this module as standard for this type of a game, and expect it. Only to be let down by EVE in this regard. What I mean is, both Elite and Citizen will have character creators. After character creation, you will presumably be dumped into a social module. As in, the character you created gets to walk around, see other characters, /wave at them, dance naked on the mailbox, whatever. And only then do you go and get into your ship and take off, with your identity in the game world as a full-fledged character firmly established. By comparison, EVE will still be in the middle ages. You'll create your character, press Play, and end up either ship-spinning in station, locked in a tiny cubicle alone, or in a ship in space, with no identity established, and no player-to-player interaction as of yet. So new players, who haven't tried EVE yet, but already cut their teeth under Elite and Citizen, may be quite disappointed by that. To the point that they may begin writing the game off as outdated and feature-incomplete. |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
197
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 14:14:38 -
[229] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Lan Wang wrote:pretty much what i said, it would be a complete new game (DLC?) demanding ccp to probably double its workforce to accomodate new features and additions on top of eve's core game, it would affect gameplay for everyone because you are creating an alternative to flying a spaceship in space (fck ship spinning during wardec lets go walk around the station and do whatever you can do in the station), possibly destroying a lot of playstyles for others, next people will want facebook integration and isk for shares and trinkets.
where would it end with what you can do in the station and what would you do apart from alliance meetings and microtransactions? The whole thing resembles discussions about Infantry in World of Tanks. The 'Infantry ideas' folks basically want a whole 'nother game (while steadfastly refusing to play the numerous other war games that have infantry lol, saying "BUT I LOVE WoT!, why should i have to play another game!!!!"). The folks telling them it's a dumb idea are telling them how it would negatively affect Wargamming (makers of WoT) and could lead to a universally crappy experience because WoT isn't designed for infantry. None of that matters to them, they want Infantry and (and i'm not kidding, they say this) "SO MANY MORE PEOPLE WILL PLAY WoT BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE LIKES JUST TANKS" lmao. So it's not just an EVE thing, there are crazy people dissatisfied with what they got all over Earth lol.
it just makes me instantly think of Mass Effect implementing such a thing, i just cant get my head round what people would want to do with WiS feature, it would get boring very quickly unless there was more interaction/missions with your character, eve already has everything setup to make communications easier, why would someone want to use a long way unless for rp purposes
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5170
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 14:14:51 -
[230] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:That's just you reading into my posts what you want to (and displaying that dishonesty trait again). Being realistic about what someone can do, along with actually looking at what happens in the past should inform one's opinion about the viability of something they want to see happen. This doesn't happen with you. and yet people who are realistic are somehow wrong. So to be completely clear, are you saying that you believe that realistically, CCP is incapable of developing avatar gameplay?
Jenn aSide wrote:You know it's not about 'features'. As long as you've been posting you've been in the 'eve needs more subs!!!" camp, and you've not display a great deal of liking for the EVE community. You like the idea of WiS because you think it will attract more of the kinds of people you like and less of the kinds you don't like. I don't expect you to admit to that, but your agenda is so transparent anyone with half an eye and a quarter of a braincell can see it. Its no secret that I believe most of the forum posting part of the community are incredibly toxic, but that has nothing to do with what's going on in this forum. Further, I don't like the idea of WiS and I've made that clear. I simply don't have a problem with the idea of CCP bringing it in, and can fully understand why some players like it. Would I use it if it were here? Sure I would, but it's certainly not going to make my list of "things I'd specifically like to see added to EVE".
Jenn aSide wrote:EVE was not designed to be anything of the sort, if it was it wouldn't be a multi-year pain the ass to change things like POSes and add new NPCs. EVE was envisioned to eventually be be an immersive virtual world, but designed to be a space ship game with a market (with the rest to come at some future point).
CCP tried. They tried with walking in stations, EVA exploration, Atmospheric flight. They tried with the EVE-DUST connect. For the most part they failed. It wasn't incompetence, it was overconfidence coupled with and unrealistic worldview. The same things you display.
Hopefully they've learned from the past (They've done pretty damn good since Incarna except for all the safety crap). Perhaps one day you will follow them. Prove it.
From the current website: "Cutting-edge graphics Graphics and audio are an important part of the virtual world experience. CCP is always updating sound and visuals to maintain the most modern, immersive sci-fi world."
From 2007: "About EVE Online Set tens of thousands of years in the future, EVE Online is a breathtaking journey to the stars, to an immersive experience filled with adventure, riches, danger and glory. Supported by a vast player-run economy, EVE offers professions to choose ranging from commodities trader to mercenary, industrial entrepreneur to pirate, mining engineer to battle fleet commander or any combination of these and much more. Your greatest asset is the starship, designed to accommodate your specific needs, skills and ambitions. Complementing its lethal arsenal are thousands of modules and components, allowing for countless customizations. From brokering business deals to waging war, you will have access to a diverse array of sophisticated tools and interfaces to forge your own destiny in EVE."
From that it would seem that even years back EVE was aiming to be immersive
Jenn aSide wrote:I am an EVE Player. A thing doesn't need to 'affect me personally' for me to have an opinion on it. Which is a moot point because in EVE, everything affects everyone else in some way. And in influx of non-EVE players who just come for the space barbies (who will then need and demand support from CCP, a smallish Icleandic game company that has in the past not displayed the best customer service capabilities....). CCP would have to grow to accommodate such types, and we saw what happened the last time CCP got to big. Yeah, I'm well aware that you'll have an opinion on everything. And I get it, you don't want to share your sandbox with the other kids. Well mate, some of us do and we have every bit as much of a right to state our opinions as you do. CCP certainly wants more players and the longevity of the game relies on picking up the player retention. Believe it or not, players aren't just going to suddenly start sticking around if the status quo never changes, so change one way or another is inevitable. Whatever CCP chooses to do you won't like it, since you seem to not really like change at all.
Jenn aSide wrote:No, it says something about those people's inability to understand the world they live in. I've supported plenty of good things in EVE, it's just that damn near no one proposes good things in those forum and F&I, it's always BS like walking in stations, 'fix ganking/awoxxing/afk cloaking' or other nonsense.
Thats why history keeps repeating itself (in real life and in video games) because people don't pay attention to how things actually work, in the same way as YOU would repeat Incarna even if you did not intend to. Have you not though maybe that if all of the people coming up with ideas are coming up with ones that you dislike, that perhaps you might be the problem there? Most of us are pretty happy with the changes going in and can be quite supportive of a vast array of ideas. Even if something hurts my playstyle, I support it if it's a good change overall. Hell, my playstyle is basically going to be removed when the sov changes come out, replaced by something totally different, and I'm OK with it as it's beneficial overall.
And no, I wouldn't repeat Incarna, I just think the main issue with Incarna was the idea of micro-transactions, not that they wanted to add avatars. I honestly believe that now they've moved to a new development style and improved their internal processes that WiS would be a pretty feasible development.
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3305
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Posted - 2015.02.23 14:16:05 -
[231] - Quote
Kaleen Khadath wrote:Whether WiS is the way to go or not, I expect we'll know within a year. At this point, there's no sense in rocking the boat just yet.
Both, Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous are promising WiS as core gameplay at some point soon. I'm not sure when Elite plans to start delivering it, but Star Citizen's WiS module is supposed to be hitting beta late Spring or early Summer of this year. And release with the full game late in the year, or most likely this time next year. In short, we'll be able to see how well-received (or poorly-received) WiS will be in at least two other space sims. If people absolutely love it, it'll be a pretty clear sign that it should be revisited. If both those games fail to deliver, and/or it's poorly received, that'll also be a clear signal to avoid it.
Besides, with CCPs development speed, even if they did decide to do it, it would take a couple of years anyway, so might as well sit back and watch what happens with the other guys first.
One bad thing could happen though, if the mechanic is well-received. Namely, people may start to see this module as standard for this type of a game, and expect it. Only to be let down by EVE in this regard. What I mean is, both Elite and Citizen will have character creators. After character creation, you will presumably be dumped into a social module. As in, the character you created gets to walk around, see other characters, /wave at them, dance naked on the mailbox, whatever. And only then do you go and get into your ship and take off, with your identity in the game world as a full-fledged character firmly established. By comparison, EVE will still be in the middle ages. You'll create your character, press Play, and end up either ship-spinning in station, locked in a tiny cubicle alone, or in a ship in space, with no identity established, and no player-to-player interaction as of yet. So new players, who haven't tried EVE yet, but already cut their teeth under Elite and Citizen, may be quite disappointed by that. To the point that they may begin writing the game off as outdated and feature-incomplete.
So, because the "cool kids" are doing it EVE does too?
Don't get me wrong, meaningful avatar gameplay in EVE would be cool. But, avatar gameplay isn't what makes EVE great. Player interaction in EVE already dwarfs what's available elsewhere. Avatar seems more like a "nice to have" than a necessity here.
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
756
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Posted - 2015.02.23 14:27:02 -
[232] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Even if something hurts my playstyle, I support it if it's a good change overall. You were very supportive of the isboxer nerf |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
197
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 14:29:29 -
[233] - Quote
Kaleen Khadath wrote:Whether WiS is the way to go or not, I expect we'll know within a year. At this point, there's no sense in rocking the boat just yet.
Both, Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous are promising WiS as core gameplay at some point soon. I'm not sure when Elite plans to start delivering it, but Star Citizen's WiS module is supposed to be hitting beta late Spring or early Summer of this year. And release with the full game late in the year, or most likely this time next year. In short, we'll be able to see how well-received (or poorly-received) WiS will be in at least two other space sims. If people absolutely love it, it'll be a pretty clear sign that it should be revisited. If both those games fail to deliver, and/or it's poorly received, that'll also be a clear signal to avoid it.
Besides, with CCPs development speed, even if they did decide to do it, it would take a couple of years anyway, so might as well sit back and watch what happens with the other guys first.
One bad thing could happen though, if the mechanic is well-received. Namely, people may start to see this module as standard for this type of a game, and expect it. Only to be let down by EVE in this regard. What I mean is, both Elite and Citizen will have character creators. After character creation, you will presumably be dumped into a social module. As in, the character you created gets to walk around, see other characters, /wave at them, dance naked on the mailbox, whatever. And only then do you go and get into your ship and take off, with your identity in the game world as a full-fledged character firmly established. By comparison, EVE will still be in the middle ages. You'll create your character, press Play, and end up either ship-spinning in station, locked in a tiny cubicle alone, or in a ship in space, with no identity established, and no player-to-player interaction as of yet. So new players, who haven't tried EVE yet, but already cut their teeth under Elite and Citizen, may be quite disappointed by that. To the point that they may begin writing the game off as outdated and feature-incomplete.
do elite and star citizen offer the things eve does? unlimited skillpoints (every char is unique) the ability to buy and sell chars and assets, being able to scam, the flexibility to do anything you want, various career paths, huge 1000+ player battles, and erm over 10 years of development.
No they dont so i wouldnt consider eve in the middle ages, im sure i heard elite is limited to 16 players in a system meh thats middles ages
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3785
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Posted - 2015.02.23 14:38:43 -
[234] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: It's simple Lucas. We want CCP to sell another game. We want them to be really successful at it. At the same time, no one in thread has provided a cogent argument that EVE needs WIS for subs. EVE sells itself without WIS, always has. So why implement it? It's better, as the argument goes, to develop the core game which is what is bringing in subs in the first place.
Is anyone arguing that EVE is going to die if it never had WIS?
2007-2011 was the last time EVE grew in absolute terms.
2011 was CCP's best year ever, and quite better than 2012-2014.
The road to 2011 was up, the road sicne 2011 is down.
I guess EVE is selling itself very well. Everybody who didn't gave a try since 2003 surely is queueing now that the game is exactly the same and CCP Seagull is making her best to change everything so everything stays the same... No.
EVE and CCP have stopped growing. They've dwindled, gone up a bit, stagnated and now are going down again.
Since EVE stopped growing, CCP tried the usual tricks in the bag.
First, increase revenue per customer. Multiple accounts, new monetarized services, microtransactions... Second, improve retention of old customers. User-oriented design and faster release pace do the trick, but both have counterproducitve side effects - notably burnout and not attracting new customers Third, remove monetary barriers, aka add free to play content (like, permadeath characters?). Guess we will see this in 2016 or 2017.
And that's it. EVE is not suit to go full F2P because of the single shard. Also isn't suit to live as a volunteer garage server.
TL;DR: no, EVE will not die because it does not have WiS. But certainly is not going to live without drawing in people who haven't been interested to play EVE for the last 12 years. And that includes current players who spend more time making up their characters than shooting player spaceships...
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
757
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Posted - 2015.02.23 14:40:25 -
[235] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: And no, I wouldn't repeat Incarna, I just think the main issue with Incarna was the idea of micro-transactions, not that they wanted to add avatars. I honestly believe that now they've moved to a new development style and improved their internal processes that WiS would be a pretty feasible development.
Sibyyl linked my view on why Incarna was what it was (thanks Sib, I couldn't have found that post anymore myself!) No, it wasn't just microtransactions - they played a part, but it was a storm of faliures that rubbed off each other.
You might be right, CCP has changed, and maybe their new system would mean less of a monumental embarrassment. But the fact is, we have seen what a CCP WiS looks like, and it was bad (and no-one can say it wasn't - if it hadn't been an awful soul-sucking disappointment, we wouldn't be having this discussion because we would have recieved it with Incarna like we all thought we were going to). We are going to be gunshy of any repeat effort, without some pretty damn solid assurances that the rest of the game isn't being left to go mouldy in the corner again.
And incidentally, is anyone even sure iterating on WiS is possible anymore... it's been a few years, and with all the WoD staff gone, its potentially legacy code at this point. Could very well be POSes all over again. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9875
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 14:48:24 -
[236] - Quote
Kaleen Khadath wrote:Whether WiS is the way to go or not, I expect we'll know within a year. At this point, there's no sense in rocking the boat just yet.
Both, Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous are promising WiS as core gameplay at some point soon. I'm not sure when Elite plans to start delivering it, but Star Citizen's WiS module is supposed to be hitting beta late Spring or early Summer of this year. And release with the full game late in the year, or most likely this time next year. In short, we'll be able to see how well-received (or poorly-received) WiS will be in at least two other space sims. If people absolutely love it, it'll be a pretty clear sign that it should be revisited. If both those games fail to deliver, and/or it's poorly received, that'll also be a clear signal to avoid it.
I don't see how Elite and Star citizen matter given that their are other space themed games right now that have it and no one mentions those.
This is what I mean by failing to take history into account. EVE was supposed to die a long time ago because of other space games (Black Prophecy, Jumpgate, SWG, SWTOR, STO). Those games came. NOTHING happened to EVE.
Why do people thing SC or Elite is any different? If anything those games are further away from EVE than SWTOR and STO are.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5170
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Posted - 2015.02.23 14:49:45 -
[237] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: Even if something hurts my playstyle, I support it if it's a good change overall. You were very supportive of the isboxer nerf I take it that's supposed to be sarcastic as I was obviously against it in it's proposed form.
I'll also take it that you missed the part where I'm not an ISBoxer user, and the part where I wanted game mechanics to instead be changed so PVE required unique (per screen) individual input which would make ISBoxing even less viable than it is. I don't want to drag this off topic, but my problem with the input multiplexing change is that it wasn't a change to the root cause of the problem, simply a new reason to ban players which would mean (and ultimately has meant) that manual multiboxers would end up getting caught in the crossfire.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9876
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Posted - 2015.02.23 15:01:57 -
[238] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So to be completely clear, are you saying that you believe that realistically, CCP is incapable of developing avatar gameplay?
Can't? maybe.
Shouldn't? Definitely. The best products (game or otherwise) are focused products. You would see EVE diluted in some insane bid to 'get more subs'. I would see EVE be EVE (and continue to grow in the direction of more EVE).
Quote: Prove it.
From the current website: "Cutting-edge graphics Graphics and audio are an important part of the virtual world experience. CCP is always updating sound and visuals to maintain the most modern, immersive sci-fi world."
This is why I say you are dishonest. You know what you posted there is MARKETING material. You know that, you know posting that is basically a lie, and then get mad when i call you dishonest.
Did I miss something? Did EVE start out with WiS then remove it for some reason (because that would prove that EVe was designed with WiS in mind)? Did you miss how CCP ihas spent the last few years making tools that will allow them to more easily add new NPCs. In your denial of the truth you're asking me to prove water is wet.
You are xpecting a company that has spent YEARS making those npc tools to basically tack on a whole now game (WiS) when the previous attempt crashed and burned. and you'r on a forum arguing with me about it lol.
Was going to respond to the rest but here is the truth. You like to argue (lol, in this case for something you claim to not like but wouldn't care if they added it ...l.o.l). You will continue to argue simply because I or others are posting about the realities of the situation. Feel free to, but the truth yous your worldview is too limited to see the realities here. So, think what you want, but you're wrong (about everything, but lets start with WiS).
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9876
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Posted - 2015.02.23 15:06:56 -
[239] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Sibyyl wrote: It's simple Lucas. We want CCP to sell another game. We want them to be really successful at it. At the same time, no one in thread has provided a cogent argument that EVE needs WIS for subs. EVE sells itself without WIS, always has. So why implement it? It's better, as the argument goes, to develop the core game which is what is bringing in subs in the first place.
Is anyone arguing that EVE is going to die if it never had WIS?
2007-2011 was the last time EVE grew in absolute terms. 2011 was CCP's best year ever, and quite better than 2012-2014. The road to 2011 was up, the road sicne 2011 is down. I guess EVE is selling itself very well. Everybody who didn't gave a try since 2003 surely is queueing now that the game is exactly the same and CCP Seagull is making her best to change everything so everything stays the same... No. EVE and CCP have stopped growing. They've dwindled, gone up a bit, stagnated and now are going down again. Since EVE stopped growing, CCP tried the usual tricks in the bag. First, increase revenue per customer. Multiple accounts, new monetarized services, microtransactions... Second, improve retention of old customers. User-oriented design and faster release pace do the trick, but both have counterproducitve side effects - notably burnout and not attracting new customers Third, remove monetary barriers, aka add free to play content (like, permadeath characters?). Guess we will see this in 2016 or 2017. And that's it. EVE is not suit to go full F2P because of the single shard. Also isn't suit to live as a volunteer garage server. TL;DR: no, EVE will not die because it does not have WiS. But certainly is not going to live without drawing in people who haven't been interested to play EVE for the last 12 years. And that includes current players who spend more time making up their characters than shooting player spaceships...
The mental gymnastics of the EVE is dying sect is unbelievable. It's like no new people have ever been born, so everyone who might like EVE has tried it already! I mean, it's not like CCP changed somethings to make multiple accounts less necessary leading to (along with things like plex prices) few accounts per actual human.
The problem wasn't that EVe stopped growing, it was that it was probably NEVER growing as much as CCP said (because of alts and how easy it was to plex when CCP added incursions and upgradable null sec systems which made earning income much easier, which has now caught up to us in the form of plex prices). So ignorant people look at EVE offline and conclude that EVE is dying when in fact EVE is actually probably as healthy as it's every been.
Some of you people are pure suckers if you buy what MARKETING people tell you.
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Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
946
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Posted - 2015.02.23 15:10:50 -
[240] - Quote
i agree on both sides. Is it worth to have 2 gameplay or is it not? Avatar game play and space combat. The first question is do we realy want a avatar game? or stay what we have now? Thats the question the rest is just a debate for any kind of people that love to debate on the looks and feels.
My person opinion is we don`t need avatar. But .... I like to try new stuff. And i dont mind to play with the avatar game play. So for me its 50/50 depend on the stuff the release with it. |
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5170
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 15:18:02 -
[241] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Sibyyl linked my view on why Incarna was what it was (thanks Sib, I couldn't have found that post anymore myself!) No, it wasn't just microtransactions - they played a part, but it was a storm of faliures that rubbed off each other. I was there for it, and to me the only part that was an issue was the microtransaction part and the "super secret" information about how far that would extend outside of vanity items.
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:You might be right, CCP has changed, and maybe their new system would mean less of a monumental embarrassment. But the fact is, we have seen what a CCP WiS looks like, and it was bad (and no-one can say it wasn't - if it hadn't been an awful soul-sucking disappointment, we wouldn't be having this discussion because we would have recieved it with Incarna like we all thought we were going to). We are going to be gunshy of any repeat effort, without some pretty damn solid assurances that the rest of the game isn't being left to go mouldy in the corner again. Honestly, beyond the fact that it took a bit of time I don't think it was as bad as people make out. Other features were still rolling out with it. The jump bridge changes were a pretty big part of that expansion too IIRC.
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:And incidentally, is anyone even sure iterating on WiS is possible anymore... it's been a few years, and with all the WoD staff gone, its potentially legacy code at this point. Could very well be POSes all over again. I don't see why it would be a problem. They've already got walking around the CQ working well, they've now got better separation for their service layers so interacting with non solarsystem stuff would be straight forward. They haven't lost the WoD stuff either, they didn't bin it or anything. They also have more experience with DUST now and hopefully with legion too, so I think it's a stretch to thing it's beyond their capabilities.
POS code is different because it's old core code they need to change without breaking the whole system. They stated last year at fanfest that POSes would in fact be easier if they just did new POSes that sat alongside the old ones and just phased out all old POSes, as adding new features is considerably easier than hacking old ones - but they didn't want to go that route.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5170
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 15:20:36 -
[242] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Black Prophecy lol, Black Prophecy. Anyone that played Neocron from start to finish could tell you that Black Prophecy was never going to be a competitor.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9876
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Posted - 2015.02.23 15:29:37 -
[243] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Black Prophecy lol, Black Prophecy. Anyone that played Neocron from start to finish could tell you that Black Prophecy was never going to be a competitor.
http://www.examiner.com/article/mmos-space-eve-online-jumpgate-evolution-and-black-prophecy
http://news.mmosite.com/content/2009-09-25/20090925064415805,1.shtml
it's funny reading those knowing what happened, (EVe, still here, BP dead, JGE never launched)
Bookmarked this post so I can post it in 5 years just with new links to SC, Elite and No man's Sky |
Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
7
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 15:36:10 -
[244] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Black Prophecy lol, Black Prophecy. Anyone that played Neocron from start to finish could tell you that Black Prophecy was never going to be a competitor.
OMG I loved Neocron. I also loved black prophecy. Was so disappointed when it was shut down. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5170
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 15:38:03 -
[245] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Can't? maybe.
Shouldn't? Definitely. The best products (game or otherwise) are focused products. You would see EVE diluted in some insane bid to 'get more subs'. I would see EVE be EVE (and continue to grow in the direction of more EVE). I would also like to see EVE be EVE, I just have no problem with them adding to what is EVE. They've added loads of new features over the years which didn't use to be EVE. They've even recently added the ability to fly your ships using keypresses, and I haven't seen you complain about that either. As long as it kept to the lore and improved the depth of the game, I'd have no issue with them expanding on the already existing CQ.
Jenn aSide wrote:This is why I say you are dishonest. You know what you posted there is MARKETING material. You know that, you know posting that is basically a lie, and then get mad when i call you dishonest. No, I simply don't believe that it is a lie. You're now trying to tell me that EVE was not designed to be immersive just because you say so. Prove it.
Jenn aSide wrote:Did I miss something? Did EVE start out with WiS then remove it for some reason (because that would prove that EVe was designed with WiS in mind)? Did you miss how CCP ihas spent the last few years making tools that will allow them to more easily add new NPCs. In your denial of the truth you're asking me to prove water is wet. It didn't start with WiS, but who knows how long that was in the design for. What I do know is that to a certain extent it's already in the game. I'm really not sure how new NPCs is relevant at all here.
Jenn aSide wrote:You are xpecting a company that has spent YEARS making those npc tools to basically tack on a whole now game (WiS) when the previous attempt crashed and burned. and you'r on a forum arguing with me about it lol. I'm not expecting anything. Well, that's a little unfair, I was expecting people who respond to actually read my posts but apparently you've not done that.
I'm sorry that I don't believe you are automatically right just because you say you are. I've played this game for 10 years and I'm entitled to my own opinions. If you don't like that and feel that everything I say is irrelevant, feel free to block me.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5170
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Posted - 2015.02.23 15:42:14 -
[246] - Quote
Wow, those are amazing :D
Reakktor, the developers of BP, they were incredibly terrible. Neocron completely fell apart though terrible design decisions and a seeming inability to write functioning code, so the chances of BP surviving were slim to say the least.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5170
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 15:43:28 -
[247] - Quote
Boozbaz wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Black Prophecy lol, Black Prophecy. Anyone that played Neocron from start to finish could tell you that Black Prophecy was never going to be a competitor. OMG I loved Neocron. I also loved black prophecy. Was so disappointed when it was shut down. Have you had a look at Neocron recently? The GMs and some of the community were given permission to take over and run it as free to play, so it's gradually improving now. The old sync issues are vastly improved.
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
14
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Posted - 2015.02.23 16:04:40 -
[248] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Can't? maybe.
Shouldn't? Definitely. The best products (game or otherwise) are focused products. You would see EVE diluted in some insane bid to 'get more subs'. I would see EVE be EVE (and continue to grow in the direction of more EVE). I would also like to see EVE be EVE, I just have no problem with them adding to what is EVE. They've added loads of new features over the years which didn't use to be EVE. They've even recently added the ability to fly your ships using keypresses, and I haven't seen you complain about that either. As long as it kept to the lore and improved the depth of the game, I'd have no issue with them expanding on the already existing CQ. Jenn aSide wrote:This is why I say you are dishonest. You know what you posted there is MARKETING material. You know that, you know posting that is basically a lie, and then get mad when i call you dishonest. No, I simply don't believe that it is a lie. You're now trying to tell me that EVE was not designed to be immersive just because you say so. Prove it. Jenn aSide wrote:Did I miss something? Did EVE start out with WiS then remove it for some reason (because that would prove that EVe was designed with WiS in mind)? Did you miss how CCP ihas spent the last few years making tools that will allow them to more easily add new NPCs. In your denial of the truth you're asking me to prove water is wet. It didn't start with WiS, but who knows how long that was in the design for. What I do know is that to a certain extent it's already in the game. I'm really not sure how new NPCs is relevant at all here. Jenn aSide wrote:You are xpecting a company that has spent YEARS making those npc tools to basically tack on a whole now game (WiS) when the previous attempt crashed and burned. and you'r on a forum arguing with me about it lol. I'm not expecting anything. Well, that's a little unfair, I was expecting people who respond to actually read my posts but apparently you've not done that. I'm sorry that I don't believe you are automatically right just because you say you are. I've played this game for 10 years and I'm entitled to my own opinions. If you don't like that and feel that everything I say is irrelevant, feel free to block me.
Lol so i will secede that over A DECADE AGO the great devs that make this game intended it to be totally immersive space game okay...... YET THEY HAVENT SUCESSFULLY complete their vision or plan orr dream or whatever you want to call it in ******* over 10years dude.
In fact, they have attempt many times to get more immersion/linkage/etc and have ******* completely failed at it.
But yeah sure, theyll get it right the next time and fulfill the prophecy right dude? Lmao suuuuure
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
762
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 16:10:38 -
[249] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: to me the only part that was an issue was the microtransaction part and the "super secret" information about how far that would extend outside of vanity items. Exactly, that was the problem for you. My problem was the 18 months and no gameplay. Other people had other issues with it, because there was so many issues with it. I can't imagine how a single person can put there hand up and say "No, I was perfectly happy with what we got with Incarna" (and if they do, well congratulations, you still have all you wanted!)
Quote:Honestly, beyond the fact that it took a bit of time I don't think it was as bad as people make out. A bit? I am still, to this day, angry about the minutes of the CSM 5 summit, where every single request, suggestion, and plead was met with "sorry, we are doing nothing on EvE til WiS is done". Every. Single. Request. Even then, it would have been forgivable had we recieved WiS, in any form what so ever. But that's the rub, we didn't. So, no, it didn't take a bit of time, simply because nothing ever got delivered. |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
15
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 16:15:56 -
[250] - Quote
PS we cant have our cake and eat it too
ECON 201. Opportunity Cost/no free lunch
They spent sooooo many millions and millions of dollars, soooo much dev time all wasted on vampire mmo, walking in stations
Think for one minute What if during all those years, ccp used those millions of R&D and devman hours and millions TO MAKE CORE EVE BETTER?
Youd maybe have your WoW level subs, they could have fixed POS code, they may have been able to send a satellite into orbit, who knows. All we know is core eve DID GET AFFECTED BY THIS because of opportunity cost dude. Think what potential we lost with all this waste. |
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Marsha Mallow
1961
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 16:19:35 -
[251] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I was there for it, and to me the only part that was an issue was the microtransaction part and the "super secret" information about how far that would extend outside of vanity items. If that was the core issue the NeX/NeS store would have been removed along with Aurum and the incident would have been brushed under the carpet. What we got was a company wide shift back to focusing on fixing the core game. And some fairly public grovelling and internal restructing/culling, which I'd imagine was fairly painful for senior management and only done out of necessity.
Sibyyl wrote:No rewrite. Aralyn provides a full summary of contributing reasons, the most agregious of which is: Aralyn Cormallen wrote:18 months - Set the stage by creating an undercurrent of neglect in EvE, and creating an expectation of WiS ("we better get something worth the loss of 18 months of EvE developement") Ask anyone naysayer in this thread why they oppose WiS. This is the prime reason. Development of the main game elements losing ground because of shifted resources to an unrelated, unconnected aspect of the game is a legitimate concern. As far as I can tell, it is one of the reasons CCP isn't developing WiS right now. ^ Yep. Regardless of the squawking over gold ammo and jeans, melted graphics cards and removing ship spinning, it was the announcement that there wouldn't be any FiS development for 18 months that ignited the playerbase. People across the game started muttering at various different stages, but the actual riots and 'to teh forums with yer pitchforks' call went out in null when that was announced. Those riots weren't accidental, and that threadnaught of 60 odd pages with people listing their unsubs wasn't an idle threat.
The people who came into game later or were less engaged at the time probably can't judge this easily (it's hard to tell if the zombie mission runners even noticed anything was going on), but the emergency summit meetings are on you-tube and they were not held purely to discuss microtransactions. There wouldn't have even been an emergency summit if it wasn't a massive issue. I can't believe people are ignorant about what an important flashpoint that was and still carp on about the uselessness of the CSM. It's one of the only times player reps went to development company and successfully pursuaded them to reverse a monumental series of mis-steps.
Lucas Kell wrote:Honestly, beyond the fact that it took a bit of time I don't think it was as bad as people make out. The Incarna riots were 2011. It's now 2015 and we still don't have a coherent, transparent roadmap for a sov revamp or a POS fix. EvE is dying, and has been since Dominion. Not because we don't get to gyrate in station, or new players can't be pursuaded to try the game. The spikes in new player accounts after the B-R/This is EvE vids demonstrate that new players can be attracted (and they don't come to play with the character creator). If nullsec dies, the game dies. Even if you don't play there, it's a mistake to underestimate how important sov space is.
Avatar gameplay might be viable for future development. It probably will attract players. But to implement it now with a broken core game would be as destructive as it was the first time round. At the end of it you might have a great 'Second Life in Space' cyber chat window, but it wouldn't be EvE. All of the EvE players would have left in disgust. It's not unreasonable for those of us who support the current FiS focus to defend it, although it must come as a real shock to those who do nothing but bleat at CCP over pretty much everything.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Josef Djugashvilis
2895
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 16:20:47 -
[252] - Quote
This is a dead thread about a dead topic.
This is not a signature.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16143
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 18:25:43 -
[253] - Quote
OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. CCP's now significantly reduced (from 2011 levels) resources are now wholly focused on what they know for sure works at bring in money in because they're unable to do anything else. Not saying CCP is dying, but they're certainly walking a tightrope, and every erg of dev resource they can muster is fully committed for a minum of 2 years.
It's a shame, but that's the evident truth. Making puppy eyes and saying in your cutest voice oh pwwwwease won't change that. Holding your breath. Won't change that. Throwing a tantrum won't change that.
There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7935
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 18:54:51 -
[254] - Quote
Quote:There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point.
Quote:The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is about what people want. Without it, there would be no threads like this.
Quote:The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops. Developing few games at the same time? I think the reason we can't have nice things is straining of resources, not the technical chops. And the disputable culture of directing the projects in direction that is efficient. There is article that is shining light on those matters and probably everyone here was reading it. CCP was basicaly treating other project as a spare resource for EVE, spare designers, and meanwhile completely changing conception for the WoD from time to time. Project director should always have clear idea from beginning what they are working on and how the game should look and feel in general, that idea should be realised furiously. That is how they should work, with passion, just like when EVE was in development.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4287
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 19:16:18 -
[255] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again. you never learn |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16144
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 19:25:05 -
[256] - Quote
Fine, I tried. Have fun beating your metaphorical faces against solid reality.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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DaReaper
Net 7
1800
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 19:28:59 -
[257] - Quote
Just some random comments:
CCP's stance on eve has changed a lot over the years. When Eve first started, they stated they would like to be the best scifi game ever. But they dropped the ball.
I think CCP's biggest issue was this need to keep moving forward. Add new stuff, get new players, add new stuff, get new players. The problem with this is they left a lot of stuff to be broken and fester, and by the time they swung back around to look at it, it was in a state that had no choice but to either leave it, or rip it out.
Then they started working on other projects and again lost focus.
CCP did not so much fail at making the best scifi game, i would argue, that for all of eve flaws and issues, she is still one of, if not the, sexiest game on the market. As i once said before, in a sea of Dumb fake blondes, eve is the smart red head by the bar. Sure not everyone likes her, sure she is difficult to get to know, sure she will chew you up and spit you out, but she is worth the risk.
I firmly believe CCP made the right choice to kill WiS when they did, and WoD. CCP has make huge strides to fix eve, and still there is more to go (pi, sov, pos, rebalances, etc) and the new comition coming to eve's party to stand by her in the bar, just makes eve want to be better and work harder.
WiS could enhance eve. I think there are lots of game play elements that can come form WiS, i also think it can tie in valk and legion nicely with eve. Though, i think there is stll a ton more work to be finished before this can be done. As i said already, my opinion is let the people who want that aspect of eve pay for it by buying clothing and other items. Then you cna have a team figure out what tools and things can be done with it. I'm sure something useful can come. But tbh, right now, the best use of WiS is with legion exploring stations or as a way to 'capture or destroy' player built ones. Anyway, yes there are other games out there with avatar play. But they are not eve. And i rather like eve. I just think we can do WiS better then it is. And letting people who want it pay ccp to make it, ala a kick starter but with microtransactions is not a bad way to do it. Anyway my 2 isk
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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DaReaper
Net 7
1800
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 19:37:49 -
[258] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. CCP's now significantly reduced (from 2011 levels) resources are now wholly focused on what they know for sure works at bring in money in because they're unable to do anything else. Not saying CCP is dying, but they're certainly walking a tightrope, and every erg of dev resource they can muster is fully committed for a minum of 2 years.
It's a shame, but that's the evident truth. Making puppy eyes and saying in your cutest voice oh pwwwwease won't change that. Holding your breath. Won't change that. Throwing a tantrum won't change that.
There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point.
I'll disagree slightly. I don;t think they don;t know what they are doing, i think they somehow got off the right track. If you look at Project Ambulation from 06/07/08 you will see a very dynamic, rich, player environment, with some killer ideas for how to make it work. The problem is, somewhere along the way, someone came along and said 'no, lets water this down, and make it crappy then we can charge out the ass for assets and make it better!" or "No, pc gaming is dead, console is the way to go, lets pour money into dust!" or "hey you know thous twilight movies are pretty popular, lets change WoD and avatar game play to be more what the teenagers will want! yea that's fantastic!"
I think ccp lost some people who had vision, and they got replaced with mediocre ideas. I think ccp CAN do avatar play well, hell they already proved it in the ambulation tech demo's. I just think someone, or somewhere along the way, ccp lost its vision and started seeing $$$.
I think ccp might be finally coming back to the correct track, and they seem to be picking up steam. If they do sov and pos changes in a good way.. then i think eve's competition is toast
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9877
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 19:48:31 -
[259] - Quote
DaReaper wrote: As i once said before, in a sea of Dumb fake blondes, eve is the smart red head by the bar. Sure not everyone likes her, sure she is difficult to get to know, sure she will chew you up and spit you out, but she is worth the risk.
Dear space-God, THIS! Some of these guys would be like "you really should dye your hair blonde, you'll get more men that way", to which EVE says "I like real men, not those squishy bastids that like fake Blondes" |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7935
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 19:58:12 -
[260] - Quote
Quote:pi, sov, pos, rebalances, etc Around the time new character creator lured me to watch some EvE videos on you tube, when I first played this game, I heard the same words from the players. "pi, sov, pos, rebalances, etc"
So, redesigning WiS completely and doing just one CQ took them few months, with the rest going soon after with help of the WoD team, and they dropped it, to work on what? pi, sov, pos, rebalances, etc..
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
|
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5172
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 20:08:23 -
[261] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Exactly, that was the problem for you. My problem was the 18 months and no gameplay. Other people had other issues with it, because there was so many issues with it. I can't imagine how a single person can put there hand up and say "No, I was perfectly happy with what we got with Incarna" (and if they do, well congratulations, you still have all you wanted!) It's not like the prior 18 months were starved of content because of it, you had the Dominion, Tyrannis and Incursion expansions. So nothing in those took your fancy, that doesn't mean nothing was added. But none of that mean that it was all the fault of WiS, so why is that what takes the blame?
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:A bit? I am still, to this day, angry about the minutes of the CSM 5 summit, where every single request, suggestion, and plead was met with "sorry, we are doing nothing on EvE til WiS is done". Every. Single. Request. Even then, it would have been forgivable had we recieved WiS, in any form what so ever. But that's the rub, we didn't. So, no, it didn't take a bit of time, simply because nothing ever got delivered. And yet they delivered plenty of changes and fixes in that time. You act like there was a blank sport where EVE ceased while they were writing WiS. It simply isn't true.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
99
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 20:25:01 -
[262] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:DaReaper wrote: As i once said before, in a sea of Dumb fake blondes, eve is the smart red head by the bar. Sure not everyone likes her, sure she is difficult to get to know, sure she will chew you up and spit you out, but she is worth the risk.
Dear space-God, THIS! Some of these guys would be like "you really should dye your hair blonde, you'll get more men that way", to which EVE says "I like real men, not those squishy bastids that like fake Blondes"
Yes except in this analogy EVE is the judgmental, raven haired hipster who's at a tea bar you haven't heard of. Oh and she doesn't kiss before the fifth date.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5172
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 20:25:55 -
[263] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:If that was the core issue the NeX/NeS store would have been removed along with Aurum and the incident would have been brushed under the carpet. What we got was a company wide shift back to focusing on fixing the core game. And some fairly public grovelling and internal restructing/culling, which I'd imagine was fairly painful for senior management and only done out of necessity. They agreed at that point to go with vanity items only. The biggest issue was the suggestion of microtransactions for gameplay improving items, which was what the leaked info was about. Honestly, I think most people overreacted. For the EVE community, that's no surprise.
Marsha Mallow wrote:The Incarna riots were 2011. It's now 2015 and we still don't have a coherent, transparent roadmap for a sov revamp or a POS fix. EvE is dying, and has been since Dominion. Not because we don't get to gyrate in station, or new players can't be pursuaded to try the game. The spikes in new player accounts after the B-R/This is EvE vids demonstrate that new players can be attracted (and they don't come to play with the character creator). If nullsec dies, the game dies. Even if you don't play there, it's a mistake to underestimate how important sov space is. I agree, there are more important things to do than WiS, I simply don't believe in using it as a scapegoat and writing it off.
Marsha Mallow wrote:Avatar gameplay might be viable for future development. It probably will attract players. But to implement it now with a broken core game would be as destructive as it was the first time round. At the end of it you might have a great 'Second Life in Space' cyber chat window, but it wouldn't be EvE. All of the EvE players would have left in disgust. It's not unreasonable for those of us who support the current FiS focus to defend it, although it must come as a real shock to those who do nothing but bleat at CCP over pretty much everything. I think once Legion and Valkyrie are out of the way they'd have capacity to extend WiS and with their new development model would be better positions to run it alongside FiS development. It wouldn't be like the core of EVE, but that would probably be a good thing. Many people know that EVE is spreadsheets in space, and that puts a lot of people off. Extending EVE's immersion could attract a bunch of players who had already considered and rejected EVE.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3785
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 20:51:43 -
[264] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. CCP's now significantly reduced (from 2011 levels) resources are now wholly focused on what they know for sure works at bring in money in because they're unable to do anything else. Not saying CCP is dying, but they're certainly walking a tightrope, and every erg of dev resource they can muster is fully committed for a minum of 2 years.
It's a shame, but that's the evident truth. Making puppy eyes and saying in your cutest voice oh pwwwwease won't change that. Holding your breath. Won't change that. Throwing a tantrum won't change that.
There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point.
CCP is like a ship that crashed on a reef in 2011. It's been taking water ever since, but so far they're succeeding to pump it out almost as far as it flows in. Yet they still are taking water, and the water is slowly rising, and they are in no shape to as much as bump on a tree trunk.
Maybe CCP had no other chance than die in the way they're dieing. But in the meanwhile, we could just get to spawn another player avatar in our CQ. CCP could just watch how much is used that feature. And it would return more money than Valkyrie, the game without a hardware nor a release date nor a crap worthy of whatever CCP has thrown into it rather than, say, let us bloody spawn another bloody player avatar in our bloody CQ.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
17
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 20:58:20 -
[265] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. CCP's now significantly reduced (from 2011 levels) resources are now wholly focused on what they know for sure works at bring in money in because they're unable to do anything else. Not saying CCP is dying, but they're certainly walking a tightrope, and every erg of dev resource they can muster is fully committed for a minum of 2 years.
It's a shame, but that's the evident truth. Making puppy eyes and saying in your cutest voice oh pwwwwease won't change that. Holding your breath. Won't change that. Throwing a tantrum won't change that.
There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point. CCP is like a ship that crashed on a reef in 2011. It's been taking water ever since, but so far they're succeeding to pump it out almost as far as it flows in. Yet they still are taking water, and the water is slowly rising, and they are in no shape to as much as bump on a tree trunk. Maybe CCP had no other chance than die in the way they're dieing. But in the meanwhile, we could just get to spawn another player avatar in our CQ. CCP could just watch how much is used that feature. And it would return more money than Valkyrie, the game without a hardware nor a release date nor a crap worthy of whatever CCP has thrown into it rather than, say, let us bloody spawn another bloody player avatar in our bloody CQ.
If we can have other toons come to our CQs i hope we can bang. Even if they have to blur it like in the sims. I have spent soooo many hours watching my sims bang. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22934
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 21:05:39 -
[266] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:2007-2011 was the last time EVE grew in absolute terms.
Could you tell me how you are so sure that Multiple Character Training and infinite skill queue is not reflected in your analysis? Both of these would drive lower number of accounts and lower concurrent users logged on without affecting EVE's profitability one bit.
It is safe to say that both of these features see use by an order or five of magnitude of more users than Captain's Quarters.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16145
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 21:19:47 -
[267] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. CCP's now significantly reduced (from 2011 levels) resources are now wholly focused on what they know for sure works at bring in money in because they're unable to do anything else. Not saying CCP is dying, but they're certainly walking a tightrope, and every erg of dev resource they can muster is fully committed for a minum of 2 years.
It's a shame, but that's the evident truth. Making puppy eyes and saying in your cutest voice oh pwwwwease won't change that. Holding your breath. Won't change that. Throwing a tantrum won't change that.
There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point. CCP is like a ship that crashed on a reef in 2011. It's been taking water ever since, but so far they're succeeding to pump it out almost as far as it flows in. Yet they still are taking water, and the water is slowly rising, and they are in no shape to as much as bump on a tree trunk. Maybe CCP had no other chance than die in the way they're dieing. But in the meanwhile, we could just get to spawn another player avatar in our CQ. CCP could just watch how much is used that feature. And it would return more money than Valkyrie, the game without a hardware nor a release date nor a crap worthy of whatever CCP has thrown into it rather than, say, let us bloody spawn another bloody player avatar in our bloody CQ.
Valkyrie is cheap as hell compared to Incarna. Last I heard the Valk team was less than 2 dozen developers. Compare that to the 18 full dev teams that CCP threw at Incarna, with so little to show for it.
And Valk is a game with a working software engine that you can actually play a game with. Yes I know it aint done, but after less than a year, it's several development steps ahead of where Incarna was after 4 years - and with 5x the resources thrown at it. And snark about hardware all you want - at least it hasn't set fire to any of the Occulus dev kits yet.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3786
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 21:21:02 -
[268] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:2007-2011 was the last time EVE grew in absolute terms.
Could you tell me how you are so sure that Multiple Character Training and infinite skill queue is not reflected in your analysis? Both of these would drive lower number of accounts and lower concurrent users logged on without affecting EVE's profitability one bit. It is safe to say that both of these features see use by an order or five of magnitude of more users than Captain's Quarters.
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/company/corporateinformation/financial-information
There's nothing funny with the last ones. CCP started publishing them in Icelandic once they noticed that players were using them to check on their financial health.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22935
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 21:27:56 -
[269] - Quote
The last financial update had a dip due to WOD related R&D. R&D dips are well known and temporary profit displacement phenomena for tech companies.
How are you extrapolating the slow demise of EVE from those numbers?
We're flying high, we're watching the world pass us by
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3786
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Posted - 2015.02.23 21:28:50 -
[270] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. CCP's now significantly reduced (from 2011 levels) resources are now wholly focused on what they know for sure works at bring in money in because they're unable to do anything else. Not saying CCP is dying, but they're certainly walking a tightrope, and every erg of dev resource they can muster is fully committed for a minum of 2 years.
It's a shame, but that's the evident truth. Making puppy eyes and saying in your cutest voice oh pwwwwease won't change that. Holding your breath. Won't change that. Throwing a tantrum won't change that.
There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point. CCP is like a ship that crashed on a reef in 2011. It's been taking water ever since, but so far they're succeeding to pump it out almost as far as it flows in. Yet they still are taking water, and the water is slowly rising, and they are in no shape to as much as bump on a tree trunk. Maybe CCP had no other chance than die in the way they're dieing. But in the meanwhile, we could just get to spawn another player avatar in our CQ. CCP could just watch how much is used that feature. And it would return more money than Valkyrie, the game without a hardware nor a release date nor a crap worthy of whatever CCP has thrown into it rather than, say, let us bloody spawn another bloody player avatar in our bloody CQ. Valkyrie is cheap as hell compared to Incarna. Last I heard the Valk team was less than 2 dozen developers. Compare that to the 18 full dev teams that CCP threw at Incarna, with so little to show for it. And Valk is a game with a working software engine that you can actually play a game with. Yes I know it aint done, but after less than a year, it's several development steps ahead of where Incarna was after 4 years - and with 5x the resources thrown at it. And snark about hardware all you want - at least it hasn't set fire to any of the Occulus dev kits yet.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26449690/wod/marchwalkthrough.pdf
It is easy to forget at which point in development was the WiS technology when it was shot dead by CCP...
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Marsha Mallow
1967
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Posted - 2015.02.23 21:35:43 -
[271] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:They agreed at that point to go with vanity items only. The biggest issue was the suggestion of microtransactions for gameplay improving items, which was what the leaked info was about. Honestly, I think most people overreacted. For the EVE community, that's no surprise. The hysteria over the Greed is Good memo was pretty funny as I recall. And yes, some of it was exaggerated. But the pricing issues with monocles and the $1000 jean remark suggested a very real disconnect between the playerbase and senior management. The fact that most of the community team were replaced (whether they were at fault is debatable) suggests senior management felt they dropped the ball in keeping up with community feedback. Communication appears to have improved massively since then, so at the least I'd chalk that one up as a win. Despite all of the bad press surrounding Incarna, a hell of a lot of good things have resulted from it, so I'm not sure there's any need to be all that bitter.
Lucas Kell wrote:I agree, there are more important things to do than WiS, I simply don't believe in using it as a scapegoat and writing it off. I'm not writing it off or treating Incarna as the root of all of the problems ingame. I don't think anyone reasonable is. Those claiming Incarna has demonised avatar based gameplay are WiSers playing the victim card to try dredge up some sympathy. All joking aside, avatar based gameplay would be an awesome addition. I'm not sure about standing around in bars semi nude with a bunch of RPers (WiSing) is an appropriate direction. I'd rather see interesting, immersive gameplay. Frankly, I can stand around in a bar with my **** out IRL but if I had to do it with EvE players ingame, I'd like a weapon.
It's entirely fair for those who support avatar based gameplay as a future development to talk about it, but for god's sake stop whining/lying/being so annoying. I would like to stop doing this everytime I have to deal with towers, sov warfare, corp/alliance management etc. You know, the really broken, annoying mechanics that we've been dealing with for years. The WiSers can bleat all they like, but a lot of them seem to be casuals who haven't really had to deal with this crap and genuinely don't get how broken it is.
Lucas Kell wrote:I think once Legion and Valkyrie are out of the way they'd have capacity to extend WiS and with their new development model would be better positions to run it alongside FiS development. It wouldn't be like the core of EVE, but that would probably be a good thing. Many people know that EVE is spreadsheets in space, and that puts a lot of people off. Extending EVE's immersion could attract a bunch of players who had already considered and rejected EVE. There's a lot of 'ifs' there, but yes, I agree. If Valk and Legion launch and are moderately successful I'd hope there would be further avatar development. There's still a hell of a lot of core EvE features to fix, and judging by direction the next strand of development will be directed at player built stargates and uncharted space.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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DaReaper
Net 7
1803
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Posted - 2015.02.23 21:42:27 -
[272] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:2007-2011 was the last time EVE grew in absolute terms.
Could you tell me how you are so sure that Multiple Character Training and infinite skill queue is not reflected in your analysis? Both of these would drive lower number of accounts and lower concurrent users logged on without affecting EVE's profitability one bit. It is safe to say that both of these features see use by an order or five of magnitude of more users than Captain's Quarters. http://www.ccpgames.com/en/company/corporateinformation/financial-information There's nothing funny with the last ones. CCP started publishing them in Icelandic once they noticed that players were using them to check on their financial health.
I don;t mean to sound rude, but do you have any idea how to read a finance sheet? I don;t but eve i noticed something.
in the 2013 report (2014 the full year is not out yet) CCP lost 20m. However, if you look at revenue, ccp was UP thats right UP 10m over 2012. That means they brought in more money in 2013 then 2012. CCP would of been very profitable except for the 90m RnD write off. So the financial report doesn;t prove eve is 'sinking' it shows the exact opposit.
The 6 month report has ccp down 2m or so from the same period last year. But that number is still UP from 2012.
Thats the problem. Everyone looks at the 90m loss and goes OMG CCP IS DYING! but they ignore the 10m they gained over the year. If the 90m is nothing but accounting magic for taxes, then ccp is in awesome shape.
Also, eve-offline.net only shows the average user on. it doesn;t show subs. For all you know there are 500k customer who set long stills and walked away. So this gives you no data.
Untill we see this years report, which will give a better picture (only if all the WoD write off is finished, and as they laid people off last april, i doubt its will be, then you don;t know what shape they are in.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Marsha Mallow
1968
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Posted - 2015.02.23 21:45:30 -
[273] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP is like a ship that crashed on a reef in 2011. It's been taking water ever since, but so far they're succeeding to pump it out almost as far as it flows in. Yet they still are taking water, and the water is slowly rising, and they are in no shape to as much as bump on a tree trunk.
Maybe CCP had no other chance than die in the way they're dieing. If anyone could be cited as responsible for demonising WiS and Incarna, it's you with these comments and the frankly poisonous attitude which you've smeared across every WiS thread I've ever stumbled across.
Indahmawar Fazmarai said in a whiny voice wrote:But in the meanwhile, we could just get to spawn another player avatar in our CQ. How about no, you silly perve. As soon as you get that I'll give it minutes before we get a demand for a pole, a disco ball and the ability to remove all of your clothes to 'role-play'. Can you not just put some **** on your CQ screen and heavy breathe at someone random in comms?
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3786
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Posted - 2015.02.23 21:53:01 -
[274] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:2007-2011 was the last time EVE grew in absolute terms.
Could you tell me how you are so sure that Multiple Character Training and infinite skill queue is not reflected in your analysis? Both of these would drive lower number of accounts and lower concurrent users logged on without affecting EVE's profitability one bit. It is safe to say that both of these features see use by an order or five of magnitude of more users than Captain's Quarters. http://www.ccpgames.com/en/company/corporateinformation/financial-information There's nothing funny with the last ones. CCP started publishing them in Icelandic once they noticed that players were using them to check on their financial health. I don;t mean to sound rude, but do you have any idea how to read a finance sheet? I don;t but eve i noticed something. in the 2013 report (2014 the full year is not out yet) CCP lost 20m. However, if you look at revenue, ccp was UP thats right UP 10m over 2012. That means they brought in more money in 2013 then 2012. CCP would of been very profitable except for the 90m RnD write off. So the financial report doesn;t prove eve is 'sinking' it shows the exact opposit. The 6 month report has ccp down 2m or so from the same period last year. But that number is still UP from 2012. Thats the problem. Everyone looks at the 90m loss and goes OMG CCP IS DYING! but they ignore the 10m they gained over the year. If the 90m is nothing but accounting magic for taxes, then ccp is in awesome shape. Also, eve-offline.net only shows the average user on. it doesn;t show subs. For all you know there are 500k customer who set long stills and walked away. So this gives you no data. Untill we see this years report, which will give a better picture (only if all the WoD write off is finished, and as they laid people off last april, i doubt its will be, then you don;t know what shape they are in.
The data for 2013 are tricky because they included the extra revenue ftom the 10th anniversary. As for the WoD derecognition, it was about 21 million USD iirc.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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DaReaper
Net 7
1803
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Posted - 2015.02.23 21:56:41 -
[275] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:DaReaper wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:2007-2011 was the last time EVE grew in absolute terms.
Could you tell me how you are so sure that Multiple Character Training and infinite skill queue is not reflected in your analysis? Both of these would drive lower number of accounts and lower concurrent users logged on without affecting EVE's profitability one bit. It is safe to say that both of these features see use by an order or five of magnitude of more users than Captain's Quarters. http://www.ccpgames.com/en/company/corporateinformation/financial-information There's nothing funny with the last ones. CCP started publishing them in Icelandic once they noticed that players were using them to check on their financial health. I don;t mean to sound rude, but do you have any idea how to read a finance sheet? I don;t but eve i noticed something. in the 2013 report (2014 the full year is not out yet) CCP lost 20m. However, if you look at revenue, ccp was UP thats right UP 10m over 2012. That means they brought in more money in 2013 then 2012. CCP would of been very profitable except for the 90m RnD write off. So the financial report doesn;t prove eve is 'sinking' it shows the exact opposit. The 6 month report has ccp down 2m or so from the same period last year. But that number is still UP from 2012. Thats the problem. Everyone looks at the 90m loss and goes OMG CCP IS DYING! but they ignore the 10m they gained over the year. If the 90m is nothing but accounting magic for taxes, then ccp is in awesome shape. Also, eve-offline.net only shows the average user on. it doesn;t show subs. For all you know there are 500k customer who set long stills and walked away. So this gives you no data. Untill we see this years report, which will give a better picture (only if all the WoD write off is finished, and as they laid people off last april, i doubt its will be, then you don;t know what shape they are in. The data for 2013 are tricky because they included the extra revenue ftom the 10th anniversary. As for the WoD derecognition, it was about 21 million USD iirc.
yea about 24m based on the other notices in he link. The point though is they had a strong showing in 2013, sure some of it was CE, but its still up. We will see in August when they release the year statement. Per the third notice on that link
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Anslo
Scope Works Overload Everything
29926
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Posted - 2015.02.23 22:15:07 -
[276] - Quote
I like WiS. I want WiS in Eve. But I also think these threads need to vanish. Literally zero point in debating this anymore.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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clonkrieger
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2015.02.24 01:21:56 -
[277] - Quote
Well... Whatever CCP has in-line for us, I look forward to it... but, whether people like it or not, EVE has to keep changing and deliver content otherwise, it'll wither away or become free-to-play. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
974
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Posted - 2015.02.24 02:06:07 -
[278] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations. (Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.)
You are trivializing the development effort. Neither history, nor CCP's direct statements to us on this matter agree with you. I am not. One half decent developer should be able to bang this out within two weeks. Let's run through some of the logic design from the top of my head.
Player A right click the name of someone (Player B) and clicks "invite to Captain's Quarters" A check is run to make sure that player B is docked in the same station. If rejected, a notice is sent back. If accepted, they then load the Captain's Quarters, only it is the same CQ as the invitee.
Redirecting to an instance before loading. If they feel a bit lost on how that works, they can go look at any gate and see how it direct you to load a ship in a particular system based on destination.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22955
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Posted - 2015.02.24 02:21:52 -
[279] - Quote
Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this.
I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ.
Fun! \o/
Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here..
We're flying high, we're watching the world pass us by
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Corwin Valour
Private Merc Mission Runners
0
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Posted - 2015.02.24 02:40:30 -
[280] - Quote
Walking in station is a good and bad thing.
From the stand point of Starcitizen it is all about imersion.
Take this video of the game: CitizenCon 2014: Persistent Universe Demo
As for Eve Online, I'm not sure it is needed as it doesn't really fit with the way the game has been designed.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9882
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Posted - 2015.02.24 05:32:29 -
[281] - Quote
Corwin Valour wrote:Walking in station is a good and bad thing. From the stand point of Starcitizen it is all about imersion. Take this video of the game: CitizenCon 2014: Persistent Universe Demo As for Eve Online, I'm not sure it is needed as it doesn't really fit with the way the game has been designed.
Well said.
That video proves that their are different kinds of gamers. I know people who experience pants creaming upon seeing the kind of things you see in that video... It simply doesn't do a damn thing for me. I look at it and think "man, that's a whole lot of time wasting there, I prefer to do it like EVE, dock, smash buttons, undock".
20 years ago (when I was, well, a 20 year old lol) that kind of thing would have made me turn flips, now it just seems like useless fluff. The same kind of useless fluff that a few people want to see in EVE for some reason.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9882
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Posted - 2015.02.24 05:34:56 -
[282] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations. (Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.)
You are trivializing the development effort. Neither history, nor CCP's direct statements to us on this matter agree with you. I am not. One half decent developer should be able to bang this out within two weeks. Let's run through some of the logic design from the top of my head. Player A right click the name of someone (Player B) and clicks "invite to Captain's Quarters" A check is run to make sure that player B is docked in the same station. If rejected, a notice is sent back. If accepted, they then load the Captain's Quarters, only it is the same CQ as the invitee. Redirecting to an instance before loading. If they feel a bit lost on how that works, they can go look at any gate and see how it direct you to load a ship in a particular system based on destination.
You can tell an idea is a bad one when someone describes how easy it would be for someone else to do something lol.
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Dave kazkade
Serenity Collective
9
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Posted - 2015.02.24 06:43:47 -
[283] - Quote
I bet no dev's will give any say on WiS, because there is probably no development going on with it, I think we have to accept the fact that no matter how cool WiS would be, it will be a feature that will never show up in eve, dev's have not stated anything about it. plenty of people are asking for it, but instead we get t3 destroyers and allot of useless things that would not change the game as well and WiS would experience wise. And this is saying something because I live in wormhole space were stations dont even exist, still, walking in stations would at least add a layer to gameplay that people would have wished ccp would have started working on sooner.
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Anslo
Scope Works Overload Everything
29998
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Posted - 2015.02.24 06:50:23 -
[284] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this. I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ. Fun! \o/ Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here.. Dude, ******* seriously? That's a p narrow minded view of this ****. How about not generalizing something people would like for say, RP, or EVA, or some ****, k thx BYE.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3788
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Posted - 2015.02.24 07:32:41 -
[285] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this. I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ. Fun! \o/ Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here..
This is how I spent one hour yesterday.
Find Unknown Structure. Warn friend. Fleet up. Explore the massive thing (is it like 200 km tall?). Look for the known "entry". Try what looks like a closed gate. It is closed. Find the known "entry". Get inside, carefully maneuvering at 50 m/s. Advance until colission detection stops your ship. Meet up with friend. Pictures!
One worthy hour indeed.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3789
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 07:49:18 -
[286] - Quote
Dave kazkade wrote:I bet no dev's will give any say on WiS, because there is probably no development going on with it, I think we have to accept the fact that no matter how cool WiS would be, it will be a feature that will never show up in eve, dev's have not stated anything about it. plenty of people are asking for it, but instead we get t3 destroyers and allot of useless things that would not change the game as well and WiS would experience wise. And this is saying something because I live in wormhole space were stations dont even exist, still, walking in stations would at least add a layer to gameplay that people would have wished ccp would have started working on sooner.
CCP has stated twice, through their Executive Producers, that WiS is not something they are interested with, and CCP Seagull was more specific stating that even if they did something like it, it would be as a separate game in the "franchise". And she was not talking about Legion but about some other game CCP wouldn't be able to develop until 6-8 years from now.
As facts speak louder than words (and very specially with CCP), they just wrote off the technology used for WiS, fired everyone who worked on it and all but closed the office working on it.
That of course doesn't changes the inconvenient fact that some players want more avatar content.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4288
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Posted - 2015.02.24 08:31:02 -
[287] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this. I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ. Fun! \o/ Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here.. i took my brother's furby on the trampoline and let go on the bounce upwards by accident
the guilt over my role in this terrible tragedy has imprinted its final words as it fell to its death into my mind forevermore. 'whee! doo-ay!'
the memories haunt me to this very day |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
39228
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Posted - 2015.02.24 08:46:00 -
[288] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this. I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ. Fun! \o/ Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here.. Dude, ******* seriously? That's a p narrow minded view of this ****. How about not generalizing something people would like for say, RP, or EVA, or some ****, k thx BYE. You seem surprised lol
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
765
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Posted - 2015.02.24 09:10:47 -
[289] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I am not. One half decent developer should be able to bang this out within two weeks. Let's run through some of the logic design from the top of my head.
Player A right click the name of someone (Player B) and clicks "invite to Captain's Quarters" A check is run to make sure that player B is docked in the same station. If rejected, a notice is sent back. If accepted, they then load the Captain's Quarters, only it is the same CQ as the invitee.
Redirecting to an instance before loading. If they feel a bit lost on how that works, they can go look at any gate and see how it direct you to load a ship in a particular system based on destination.
Despite my complete ignorance of coding (both my Mum and Brother are computer programmers), I have learned that nothing is ever simple. You have to remember that there are countless functions of even something as simple as the Captains Quarters, and that many of them might react "badly" to something you consider as straightforward as adding another character.
For a start, was the Captains Quarters ever meant to be a multiplayer environment? Sure, WiS in general was, but was the CQ? Just as easily as you assume it would "of course" be meant to allow other players in, I can imagine quite easily how the CQ could have been intended as a low-resource (Heh ) interface to the hanger ui (consider it a transition zone between space and station environments), and that you didn't enter the multiplayer environment until you loaded out the door (so purely ship-players dont get bogged down when trying to just get ships changed and get out in to space).
Which means, how will the Captains Quarters as it stands cope with an "invader" character. What happens when a visitor uses any of the CQ interactable elements? There is all manner of potential for hilarious and unexpected results.
Lets go with the simplest function, the undock control. What happens when a visitor presses the undock button in someone elses CQ? You might think it obvious that the visitor would undock in whatever ship they were in when they were ported over. But is it that obvious? There could be any number of hilarious ways CCPs code might interpret that command. You might undock in a pod (since the transfer might have resulted in you leaving your ship), or perhaps it might undock your host (since you've activated their undock process, the game might not be able to tell it was done by you and not him), or even better, you might undock in whatever ship your host was piloting (it could tell you were the one undocking, but the hosts ship is the one in the "ship ready to undock" position)! In the event of any of those ludicrous events, how does CCP alter that code. How long will that take. Would the simplest way be to disable hanger ui elements when there is a visitor. What potential issues does that then create?
Nothing is ever as simple as forum commentators claim when it comes to "simple" code changes. |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
199
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Posted - 2015.02.24 09:22:26 -
[290] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations. (Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.)
You are trivializing the development effort. Neither history, nor CCP's direct statements to us on this matter agree with you. I am not. One half decent developer should be able to bang this out within two weeks. Let's run through some of the logic design from the top of my head. Player A right click the name of someone (Player B) and clicks "invite to Captain's Quarters" A check is run to make sure that player B is docked in the same station. If rejected, a notice is sent back. If accepted, they then load the Captain's Quarters, only it is the same CQ as the invitee. Redirecting to an instance before loading. If they feel a bit lost on how that works, they can go look at any gate and see how it direct you to load a ship in a particular system based on destination.
you should apply to ccp for lead developer...
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Tillek
Waves of Aegir Novaku Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.02.24 10:22:24 -
[291] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.
Bunch of dumb jacktards like you ruining stuff that has been promised since launch because you can't see the bigger picture is what it sounds like.
Seriously Eve was supposed to be a SCI FI Simulator.. Not just Spaceship pew pew.. Want to see Ambulation happen and for real. With out a bunch of elitest jackasses whining because it's not the 1 new toy they want. |
Tillek
Waves of Aegir Novaku Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 10:48:14 -
[292] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. .
Let me stop you right there. I have here in my hand my manual I bought with the game back in 03.. Guess what is mentions.. Oh that's right A living breathing Sci Fi world with walking in stations atmospheric flight. All these things.. Eve was brought about with the intent that it would grow and be a true sci fi emulator. I believe when I bought into the game that it's original goal was awesome. It's what drew me into the universe. For it to be shut down by whinny little hipster nit wits and elitist who think Walking in stations would harm their precious epeen and ability to PVP is asinine. CCP needs to get thei rheads out of their butts and realize
. 1. PVP can never be balanced 100%. There is to much human element in it. People will always find that .001% edge in pvp. Then everyone will flock to that Flavor of the Month till it's nerfed or a new FOTM is discovered. 2. New players. The game is going to need them at some point. A lot of potential players polled said that is one thing keeping them away from the game is for the most part they are stuck in a big metallic hulk. 3. Fun. Yea EVE is fun. I enjoy the pvp myself. I love exploring worm holes or what not. But there is nothing wrong with getting your corp mates together to Hang out in a station for a night of BS. Roleplayers as well as others can enjoy it.
So all this hate on Ambulation to me is just narrow minded bull. A bunch of punks who can't stand something they don't agree with being added. I been in this game honestly since Beta when the ideas of it's future and growth were happening and being spoke about by the DEVS and I still have my manual which even states those plans. So to say it was never designed with that in mind? You're off your rocker.
If CCP is smart. They won't leave us in the dark this time and will actually begin doing some work on Ambulation. I have the feeling SC as well as other sci fi games on the horizon might steal EVE's corner on the Sci Fi market. |
Tillek
Waves of Aegir Novaku Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 10:53:10 -
[293] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Dave kazkade wrote:I bet no dev's will give any say on WiS, because there is probably no development going on with it, I think we have to accept the fact that no matter how cool WiS would be, it will be a feature that will never show up in eve, dev's have not stated anything about it. plenty of people are asking for it, but instead we get t3 destroyers and allot of useless things that would not change the game as well and WiS would experience wise. And this is saying something because I live in wormhole space were stations dont even exist, still, walking in stations would at least add a layer to gameplay that people would have wished ccp would have started working on sooner.
CCP has stated twice, through their Executive Producers, that WiS is not something they are interested with, and CCP Seagull was more specific stating that even if they did something like it, it would be as a separate game in the "franchise". And she was not talking about Legion but about some other game CCP wouldn't be able to develop until 6-8 years from now. As facts speak louder than words (and very specially with CCP), they just wrote off the technology used for WiS, fired everyone who worked on it and all but closed the office working on it. That of course doesn't changes the inconvenient fact that some players want more avatar content.
Can you give some links and citations on your quotes? |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11905
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 10:55:35 -
[294] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: this just sounds like a total waste of time, why on earth would you want another avatar in your cq? just sounds like a thing that would be used twice by a player then ignored
Exactly. It adds nothing but fluff, at the cost of development time.
Rejecting it is a no brainer.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Flamespar
WarRavens
1294
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 10:56:33 -
[295] - Quote
Personally I'd prefer the resources being spent on Legion being used to give us avatar gameplay in EVE
That was we can have our cake AND walk around it. Lol
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
|
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22960
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 11:20:05 -
[296] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:You seem surprised lol
EVE is very far from being the perfect RP platform. There are other games that are far better because people can more easily accept being an elf or a satyr or a fellow in a Star Trek uniform than they can accept being a spaceship. The nods to EVE's RP community are few and far between. Sure, there are exploding stars and Drifters which can be solo'd by Ventures, but none of those are particularly compelling enough in the whole. The RP experience is an afterthought and really only perpetuates itself because of the imagination and tenacity of that community.
That said, Jen's idea grossly underestimates the development effort. I get this from CCP's clothing workshop where something as trivial to us as a new hair model was a ton of work for a developer (I believe they are not exaggerating one bit).
Jen's idea also "opens" the CQ door without any modifications that would be a basis for immersion. Without a necessary amount of immersion the feature would not see widescale use.
I don't think jumping on any novelty idea is particularly good for the game, even if short term it might seem like a cool thing to you.
I support well formed ideas with a solid 30,000 foot view, not hacks conceived of on the back of a napkin without any long term value to the game.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
|
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22960
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 11:26:47 -
[297] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Dude, ******* seriously? That's a p narrow minded view of this ****. How about not generalizing something people would like for say, RP, or EVA, or some ****, k thx BYE.
Did you have any specific ideas which could be discussed?
If you don't agree with my evaluation of how poor the immersion would be for Jen's idea you should articulate the opposing viewpoint instead of shooting off expletives at me.
I'd only be making a generalization if I actually said I think everyone feels that way. I even qualified my post by mentioning how little experience I have with games typically used as MMO RP platforms.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11906
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 11:28:19 -
[298] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: I support well formed ideas with a solid 30,000 foot view, not hacks conceived of on the back of a napkin without any long term value to the game.
The game has too many of those already. *cough Alliance mechanics cough*
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22964
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 11:38:53 -
[299] - Quote
Yes well the Devs can and do implement napkin illustrations. Take the feature advertised by the blue banner on your launcher, for example..
*ducks*
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1583
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 12:00:11 -
[300] - Quote
Tillek wrote:
Can you give some links and citations on your quotes?
Took some digging but here's the link good read for everybody unaware of that tech demo.
|
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Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
466
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 15:38:29 -
[301] - Quote
Not reading this thread, but just wanted to say,
Walkers in Stations will probably encounter some copyright problems.
That is all.
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16145
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 19:15:09 -
[302] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Dave kazkade wrote:I bet no dev's will give any say on WiS, because there is probably no development going on with it, I think we have to accept the fact that no matter how cool WiS would be, it will be a feature that will never show up in eve, dev's have not stated anything about it. plenty of people are asking for it, but instead we get t3 destroyers and allot of useless things that would not change the game as well and WiS would experience wise. And this is saying something because I live in wormhole space were stations dont even exist, still, walking in stations would at least add a layer to gameplay that people would have wished ccp would have started working on sooner.
CCP has stated twice, through their Executive Producers, that WiS is not something they are interested with, and CCP Seagull was more specific stating that even if they did something like it, it would be as a separate game in the "franchise". And she was not talking about Legion but about some other game CCP wouldn't be able to develop until 6-8 years from now. As facts speak louder than words (and very specially with CCP), they just wrote off the technology used for WiS, fired everyone who worked on it and all but closed the office working on it. That of course doesn't changes the inconvenient fact that some players want more avatar content.
Indy, me old mate, it looks like you're finally winning out of the Depression stage, through to Acceptance.
CCP just announced 30 day trials. Why not start your RvB alt now?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3789
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 20:32:51 -
[303] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Dave kazkade wrote:I bet no dev's will give any say on WiS, because there is probably no development going on with it, I think we have to accept the fact that no matter how cool WiS would be, it will be a feature that will never show up in eve, dev's have not stated anything about it. plenty of people are asking for it, but instead we get t3 destroyers and allot of useless things that would not change the game as well and WiS would experience wise. And this is saying something because I live in wormhole space were stations dont even exist, still, walking in stations would at least add a layer to gameplay that people would have wished ccp would have started working on sooner.
CCP has stated twice, through their Executive Producers, that WiS is not something they are interested with, and CCP Seagull was more specific stating that even if they did something like it, it would be as a separate game in the "franchise". And she was not talking about Legion but about some other game CCP wouldn't be able to develop until 6-8 years from now. As facts speak louder than words (and very specially with CCP), they just wrote off the technology used for WiS, fired everyone who worked on it and all but closed the office working on it. That of course doesn't changes the inconvenient fact that some players want more avatar content. Indy, me old mate, it looks like you're finally winning out of the Depression stage, through to Acceptance. CCP just announced 30 day trials. Why not start your RvB alt now?
Hey, in the last months, I made my first PvP kill, and just three weeks ago, I podded someone!
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Serene Repose
2303
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 20:46:58 -
[304] - Quote
Okay. I'll spill the beans. We already walk around in stations. Only, our hikes are limited to our quarters. Why? All the station floors have just been mopped and we aren't allowed on them for insurance reasons.
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Anslo
Scope Works Overload Everything
30246
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 20:47:46 -
[305] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Okay. I'll spill the beans. We already walk around in stations. Only, our hikes are limited to our quarters. Why? All the station floors have just been mopped and we aren't allowed on them for insurance reasons. I actually lol'd IRL. I don't know why. But I did. thank you for this.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
39258
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 21:31:22 -
[306] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:That of course doesn't changes the inconvenient fact that some players want more avatar content. And getting it.
I like your yellow catsuit.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
39258
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 21:34:56 -
[307] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:You seem surprised lol
EVE is very far from being the perfect RP platform. There are other games that are far better because people can more easily accept being an elf or a satyr or a fellow in a Star Trek uniform than they can accept being a spaceship. The nods to EVE's RP community are few and far between. Sure, there are exploding stars and Drifters which can be solo'd by Ventures, but none of those are particularly compelling enough in the whole. The RP experience is an afterthought and really only perpetuates itself because of the imagination and tenacity of that community. That said, Jen's idea grossly underestimates the development effort. I get this from CCP's clothing workshop where something as trivial to us as a new hair model was a ton of work for a developer (I believe they are not exaggerating one bit). Jen's idea also "opens" the CQ door without any modifications that would be a basis for immersion. Without a necessary amount of immersion the feature would not see widescale use. I don't think jumping on any novelty idea is particularly good for the game, even if short term it might seem like a cool thing to you. I support well formed ideas with a solid 30,000 foot view, not hacks conceived of on the back of a napkin without any long term value to the game. I haven't even read those posts so have no idea what you're talking about.
I think you missed the context of my comment.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
|
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23035
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 21:49:30 -
[308] - Quote
Erica, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. And please go get some sleep
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
39261
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 21:52:01 -
[309] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Erica, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. And please go get some sleep Excuse me?
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16145
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 22:22:10 -
[310] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Indy, me old mate, it looks like you're finally winning out of the Depression stage, through to Acceptance.
CCP just announced 30 day trials. Why not start your RvB alt now?
Hey, in the last months, I made my first PvP kill, and just three weeks ago, I podded someone!
GÖÑ
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
178
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 22:31:51 -
[311] - Quote
So after 309 replies about this WiS, it seems the lack agreement never seems to suprice the forum.
And its not the first time this has been discussed, so its in my view, a doublestandard here. Usually redundant post are closed, why hasnt this been closed?
2nd... when a post gets so much replies and there are a endless rant back and fourth, With a no distant future of some agreement, CCP should really come With a statement to shut you People up. |
ACESsiggy
University of Caille
30
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 22:50:24 -
[312] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:So after 309 replies about this WiS, it seems the lack agreement never seems to suprice the forum.
And its not the first time this has been discussed, so its in my view, a doublestandard here. Usually redundant post are closed, why hasnt this been closed?
2nd... when a post gets so much replies and there are a endless rant back and fourth, With a no distant future of some agreement, CCP should really come With a statement to shut you People up.
Just like jump animation thread?
Thanks for adding something meaningful to this post lol
Hopefully they add "run" option for our characters (shift key) to make it feel more fluid getting around if they ever do create WiS.
Pretty complete game if you ask me if WiS was added with meaningful content and a dust 514 PC version for some FPS ground game action.
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3790
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 23:16:58 -
[313] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:So after 309 replies about this WiS, it seems the lack agreement never seems to suprice the forum.
And its not the first time this has been discussed, so its in my view, a doublestandard here. Usually redundant post are closed, why hasnt this been closed?
2nd... when a post gets so much replies and there are a endless rant back and fourth, With a no distant future of some agreement, CCP should really come With a statement to shut you People up.
A statement? CCP can state what they want. We also can state what we want... And my guess is that we are not alone outside of CCP, but within CCP there are also a few people who think like us.
Of course their opinion may have a crapton less doom and gloom than mine, and less wishful thinking than Erica's, but even after 4 years EVE still haves some nice avatars with lots of potential. They're real and WoD proved that they were functional.
CCP is on the wrong road, but they still can take another one. If they dare to.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
178
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 23:33:34 -
[314] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:So after 309 replies about this WiS, it seems the lack agreement never seems to suprice the forum.
And its not the first time this has been discussed, so its in my view, a doublestandard here. Usually redundant post are closed, why hasnt this been closed?
2nd... when a post gets so much replies and there are a endless rant back and fourth, With a no distant future of some agreement, CCP should really come With a statement to shut you People up. A statement? CCP can state what they want. We also can state what we want... And my guess is that we are not alone outside of CCP, but within CCP there are also a few people who think like us. Of course their opinion may have a crapton less doom and gloom than mine, and less wishful thinking than Erica's, but even after 4 years EVE still haves some nice avatars with lots of potential. They're real and WoD proved that they were functional. CCP is on the wrong road, but they still can take another one. If they dare to.
Well it would be interesting to actually see CCP comee With a comment about this issue or others With much attention.
|
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
451
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 23:39:45 -
[315] - Quote
To answer the question as to what happened to WiS, the final word on it, before being consigned to a very dusty shelf, is here:
CCP Unifex has the final, final word. The end. Period.
I am a pod pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
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DaReaper
Net 7
1808
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 00:03:14 -
[316] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Corwin Valour wrote:Walking in station is a good and bad thing. From the stand point of Starcitizen it is all about imersion. Take this video of the game: CitizenCon 2014: Persistent Universe Demo As for Eve Online, I'm not sure it is needed as it doesn't really fit with the way the game has been designed. Well said. That video proves that their are different kinds of gamers. I know people who experience pants creaming upon seeing the kind of things you see in that video... It simply doesn't do a damn thing for me. I look at it and think "man, that's a whole lot of time wasting there, I prefer to do it like EVE, dock, smash buttons, undock". 20 years ago (when I was, well, a 20 year old lol) that kind of thing would have made me turn flips, now it just seems like useless fluff. The same kind of useless fluff that a few people want to see in EVE for some reason.
yea unfortunately i look at a lot of SC video's and think '**** that looks boring." Walking to a ship, fliping your helmet, climbing in waititng for the ship be aligned, even if it takes 1-2 min... is 1-2 min less i can play. Just liek landing in planets, oo i can walk around my ship as my ship lands... it just taxes 5 min to land the damn thing.. and thats 5 min i could be playing... yea.. no.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16145
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 00:17:52 -
[317] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:So after 309 replies about this WiS, it seems the lack agreement never seems to suprice the forum.
And its not the first time this has been discussed, so its in my view, a doublestandard here. Usually redundant post are closed, why hasnt this been closed?
2nd... when a post gets so much replies and there are a endless rant back and fourth, With a no distant future of some agreement, CCP should really come With a statement to shut you People up. A statement? CCP can state what they want. We also can state what we want... And my guess is that we are not alone outside of CCP, but within CCP there are also a few people who think like us. Of course their opinion may have a crapton less doom and gloom than mine, and less wishful thinking than Erica's, but even after 4 years EVE still haves some nice avatars with lots of potential. They're real and WoD proved that they were functional. CCP is on the wrong road, but they still can take another one. If they dare to. Well it would be interesting to actually see CCP comee With a comment about this issue or others With much attention.
They have. They're not doing WiS. How much clearer can they possibly be short of writing "We're not doing WiS" on you front lawn with kerosene and lighting it on fire the day before your birthday?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
DaReaper
Net 7
1808
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 00:19:18 -
[318] - Quote
One more note:
I have heard that ccp might revieal a new product at fan fest (no i have no source, as i said its a roumer) and as they are not doing a dust/legion key note, and the eve keynote is on thurs... there is an awefully big spot to fill on Friday where a key note COULD be
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
22323
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 00:22:17 -
[319] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:So after 309 replies about this WiS, it seems the lack agreement never seems to suprice the forum.
And its not the first time this has been discussed, so its in my view, a doublestandard here. Usually redundant post are closed, why hasnt this been closed?
2nd... when a post gets so much replies and there are a endless rant back and fourth, With a no distant future of some agreement, CCP should really come With a statement to shut you People up. A statement? CCP can state what they want. We also can state what we want... And my guess is that we are not alone outside of CCP, but within CCP there are also a few people who think like us. Of course their opinion may have a crapton less doom and gloom than mine, and less wishful thinking than Erica's, but even after 4 years EVE still haves some nice avatars with lots of potential. They're real and WoD proved that they were functional. CCP is on the wrong road, but they still can take another one. If they dare to. Well it would be interesting to actually see CCP comee With a comment about this issue or others With much attention. According to some here they already have and it's the be all and end all.
But the thing is we already know the official stance on the old wis concept. But despite the no-wis position we're still seeing gradual yet tiny developments on the avatar side of things all the time. So where does that leave us?
It'd be like asking for CCP to give a statement saying they'll never close, never merge, never move offices. They just can't give a definitive or ultimate answer on the future like that, let alone a promise, only the present and a stone's thread ahead.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
corbexx for CSM X
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
178
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 01:14:47 -
[320] - Quote
In my opinion, or onion, I think EVE would been much more "healthier" With WiS. These days, aint many that really looking forward to the "NeXT big release"... Yeah some few, like some parts of the releases, but i fear that the majority of players couldnt care less. And the forum dont reflekt the hole playerbase of EVE. If all players had used the Forum, i belive there would be much more pro's than con's
|
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Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 08:31:49 -
[321] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:In my opinion, or onion, I think EVE would been much more "healthier" With WiS. These days, aint many that really looking forward to the "NeXT big release"... Yeah some few, like some parts of the releases, but i fear that the majority of players couldnt care less. And the forum dont reflekt the hole playerbase of EVE. If all players had used the Forum, i belive there would be much more pro's than con's
I also think the antiWiS attitiude of CCP is a knee jerk reaction to players crying about it. I mean theres more people that talk **** about mining than WiS, and yet we still have improvements to that. I get the idea that if mining wasnt introduced yet, CCP would call it a "mistake" and pull back on realeasing it on the basis of the CODE and Goon trolls crying. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23186
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 10:53:57 -
[322] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote: I also think the antiWiS attitiude of CCP is a knee jerk reaction to players crying about it. I mean theres more people that talk **** about mining than WiS, and yet we still have improvements to that. I get the idea that if mining wasnt introduced yet, CCP would call it a "mistake" and pull back on realeasing it on the basis of the CODE and Goon trolls crying.
Not sure the analogy works because mining has a role in the life cycle from resource to product. It forms a core part of the market (though not necessarily profitable in most ways).
WIS is not functional, like mining is. It is a luxury product. Something that is desirable by some.
EVE has been operating on basic rations for a while. The nice to haves have mostly been concentrated on the core product because that's what people have come to sub for.
I think mining and WIS are similar in one way:
For mining I don't think CCP has a solution to solve the problem of boredom and monotony associated with the activity. Many people have suggested ideas (ie: minigames, comets), but there isn't a single one that really clicks by making it interesting without losing mining's already dismal ISK/hr.
CCP by its own admission doesn't have a WIS solution either. How would it integrate into the game? How would it be compelling enough such that the larger percentage of EVE players use it such as to justify its development cost? I've yet to see a satisfying answer (or better yet, any answer) for these 2 questions. People always talk about why they might personally use it but that's not particularly compelling in and of itself.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
|
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23186
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:07:04 -
[323] - Quote
Sorry for the second post but it keeps timing out when I try to edit previous.
I wanted to add another thought about mining. CODE folks do have a point about mining which is an important criticism of the activity: Mining doesn't particularly integrate that well with the rest of EVE either. Fleet mining is a thing, but not particularly prevalent for the more lucrative mining resources, especially gas. The career lends itself to solo play and isolation, and typically doesn't come with the sort of tense moments you get with Explo. The skills you build (I don't mean training) with mining doesn't help you play the rest of the game.
It's sort of like its own black hole with Netflix or some other outside-of-EVE thing to keep you company. Quite like the CQ which you might be sitting alone inside.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
22386
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:09:08 -
[324] - Quote
I think Steppa was using the analogy from more of a social context. In which case it's very accurate.
As for compelling reasons to justify it's development you mention not having seen any answers, yet I can see one right now looking at your portrait. It's already generating revenue even without wis. Avatar items, accesories and features found in the NeX, for example. It's doing pretty well, these days it's almost become harder to spot an avatar in default clothes than it is to find one wearing an NeX item.
But right now all that stuff is just like buying a fancy sports car. Looks great, and that's enough for many people like me to spend the money on one anyway, even though there's no race track around to really drive it on and make proper use of it. Just imagine what happens NeXt to sales when CCP finally provide that "race track"...
$$$$
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
corbexx for CSM X
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11909
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:10:53 -
[325] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote: I also think the antiWiS attitiude of CCP is a knee jerk reaction to players crying about it.
That, or the fact that it very nearly killed their company.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23189
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:24:49 -
[326] - Quote
Candi LeMew wrote:As for compelling reasons to justify it's development you mention not having seen any answers, yet I can see one right now looking at your portrait. It's already generating revenue even without wis. Avatar items, accesories and features found in the NeX, for example. It's doing pretty well, these days it's almost become harder to spot an avatar in default clothes than it is to find one wearing an NeX item.
But right now all that stuff is just like buying a fancy sports car. Looks great, and that's enough for many people like me to spend the money on one anyway, even though there's no race track around to really drive it on and make proper use of it. Just imagine what happens NeXt to sales when CCP finally provide that "race track"...
$$$$
I have a lengthy answer for why I support character creator as a feature but not WIS but I think I'm going to have trouble writing it all down from the crowded environment where I am right now.
For me personally, WIS would break immersion. It has to do with the same viewpoint Sol has about WIS being a kind of "enemy of imagination".
I will write down these thoughts in a later post..
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
|
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
40
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:31:29 -
[327] - Quote
Jita local would invade every station
Your children would not thank you |
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
22386
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:37:36 -
[328] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Candi LeMew wrote:As for compelling reasons to justify it's development you mention not having seen any answers, yet I can see one right now looking at your portrait. It's already generating revenue even without wis. Avatar items, accesories and features found in the NeX, for example. It's doing pretty well, these days it's almost become harder to spot an avatar in default clothes than it is to find one wearing an NeX item.
But right now all that stuff is just like buying a fancy sports car. Looks great, and that's enough for many people like me to spend the money on one anyway, even though there's no race track around to really drive it on and make proper use of it. Just imagine what happens NeXt to sales when CCP finally provide that "race track"...
$$$$
I have a lengthy answer for why I support character creator as a feature but not WIS but I think I'm going to have trouble writing it all down from the crowded environment where I am right now. For me personally, WIS would break immersion. It has to do with the same viewpoint Sol has about WIS being a kind of "enemy of imagination". I will write down these thoughts in a later post.. Ah but you see each time you levy support for the character creator you're also levying support by default for an arena to use avatars in, even if unintentional. For potential profit margins for a concept such as wis where do you think CCP would look first?
Nex sales.
As for inmersion well likewise I wrote a lengthy piece in an EVE live events thread a while ago where I explained the concept of "immersion" is a vastly different beast for every individual. Me, I like to immerse myself into my character, who flies a spaceship in space. For me over time I've RP'd almost every situation conceivable in a station with others, to be actually able to see that, while freeing up more time for text, while sharing the experience with others adds to my immersion. A lot.
But that's just my immersion.
Your concept will depend on your playstyle and outlook, among dozens of other factors And so will Sol's. There is no black and white blanket viewpoints when talking about immersion.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
corbexx for CSM X
|
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
40
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:41:12 -
[329] - Quote
Candi LeMew wrote: I've RP'd almost every situation conceivable in a station with others, to be actually able to see that, while freeing up more time for text, while sharing the experience with others....
Im scared |
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
22386
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:42:29 -
[330] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Candi LeMew wrote: I've RP'd almost every situation conceivable in a station with others, to be actually able to see that, while freeing up more time for text, while sharing the experience with others....
Im scared Relax and enjoy.
If it feels good just roll with it baby.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
corbexx for CSM X
|
|
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
105
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:43:20 -
[331] - Quote
Quote:WIS is not functional, like mining is. It is a luxury product. I agree with that. Just like the CQ, walking in stations would be completely useless and unnecessary. CCP shouldn't spend any resources on that, if it doesn't add any relevant gameplay to the game. And i'm not talking about sitting in virtual bars, drinking virtual beer.
But that's where Project Legion comes in. EVE and Legion, merged together, could give WiS (this term is quite confusing, as i wouldn't limit it to just stations) the purpose it needs.
Just imagine, you fly around in your ship, doing some exploring. You find a hidden pirate base. After defeating the enemy ships you don't just fly to a structure and click "open cargo" to loot it, but you actually have to send down a landing party to infiltrate the structure, fight their way through the enemies and retrieve valuable loot. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23198
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:50:44 -
[332] - Quote
*snuggles Ma Baker*
The character portrait is like a logo, or a brand in many ways. It gives the player the option to choose what is presented and how it is presented. There are limitations to this of course and we'd like to change that, but that's a separate discussion.
A logo loses its value if you can take and change its colors to whatever you want or move it around in 3d. I've been told that my alts are easily recognizable as me simply because of the similarity in style. The portrait is a useful tool to express a feeling or thought using colors and light and other tools. A portrait can express personality.
Putting Sibs in 3d removes my ability to "fashion" the presentation of Sibs. It removes an element of my own personal identity, which is expressed through the portrait design, and makes a level playing field for anyone with a character. In that generic WIS rendering environment where we won't be able to choose lighting or colors or camera angles or atmosphere, your specific uniqueness is forfeit. In my opinion, there is an element of mystique in the portrait that WIS removes. It's like taking a cell phone video of the scene in an Ansel Adams painting.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
|
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
210
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:50:47 -
[333] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:Just imagine, you fly around in your ship, doing some exploring. You find a hidden pirate base. After defeating the enemy ships you don't just fly to a structure and click "open cargo" to loot it, but you actually have to send down a landing party to infiltrate the structure, fight their way through the enemies and retrieve valuable loot.
but can we still just open the can and loot it because that sounds easier, i mean after spending the time finding, scanning then hacking the last thing i want to do is 20mins playing a 3rd person shooter to find the loot, i just wanna move onto the next one
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
|
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
42
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:53:58 -
[334] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: *snuggles Ma Baker*
Its unorthodox, but Ill allow it
May God have mercy on us all |
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
22388
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 11:56:33 -
[335] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: *snuggles Ma Baker*
The character portrait is like a logo, or a brand in many ways. It gives the player the option to choose what is presented and how it is presented. There are limitations to this of course and we'd like to change that, but that's a separate discussion.
A logo loses its value if you can take and change its colors to whatever you want or move it around in 3d. I've been told that my alts are easily recognizable as me simply because of the similarity in style. The portrait is a useful tool to express a feeling or thought using colors and light and other tools. A portrait can express personality.
Putting Sibs in 3d removes my ability to "fashion" the presentation of Sibs. It removes an element of my own personal identity, which is expressed through the portrait design, and makes a level playing field for anyone with a character. In that generic WIS rendering environment where we won't be able to choose lighting or colors or camera angles or atmosphere, your specific uniqueness is forfeit. In my opinion, there is an element of mystique in the portrait that WIS removes. It's like taking a cell phone video of the scene in an Ansel Adams painting.
Fair enough and thanks for explaining what immersion means for you.
I feel differently as it's not something that would effect my experience in the way it would effect yours because I would use it differently. And so would the folks I spend much of my EVE time with.
Afterall, why bother with ship skins, or 3D space at all for that matter when we could just use dots on the screen and "imagine" the rest. Because at the end of the day we all want the experience to be as real or tangible as possible, and that's part of immersion for me.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
corbexx for CSM X
|
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
43
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 12:03:44 -
[336] - Quote
Candi LeMew wrote: Afterall, why bother with ship skins, or 3D space at all for that matter when we could just use dots on the screen and "imagine" the rest. Because at the end of the day we all want the experience to be as real or tangible as possible, and that's part of immersion for me.
Funny, I was making a similar point in another thread;
I was against buying characters as it dissolves RP, but then conversely I was also under the impression that not only was there almost none of this happenign anyway, but that the vast majority of players didnt even want it.
I was always under the impression it was a MMORPG.
Ive been informed by several people that it is not.
I hope they are not correct. |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
210
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 12:12:47 -
[337] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Candi LeMew wrote: Afterall, why bother with ship skins, or 3D space at all for that matter when we could just use dots on the screen and "imagine" the rest. Because at the end of the day we all want the experience to be as real or tangible as possible, and that's part of immersion for me.
Funny, I was making a similar point in another thread; I was against buying characters as it dissolves RP, but then conversely I was also under the impression that not only was there almost none of this happenign anyway, but that the vast majority of players didnt even want it. I was always under the impression it was a MMORPG. Ive been informed by several people that it is not. I hope they are not correct.
Im actually part of a RP lite corp, i do enjoy the rp side of things which is a whole new other game (soo much reading) but i dont know how the walking in stations would really benefit the roleplay side of things or even benefit the game, i keep asking what would be inside the stations apart from microtransactions (as much as the other topic said i actually dont like microtransactions whatsoever i think ruin a game if there is too much thrown in your face), walking in stations would have to be a more fast paced gameplay as people may get bored and get the wrong impression about the game
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
|
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
22389
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 12:20:53 -
[338] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Candi LeMew wrote: Afterall, why bother with ship skins, or 3D space at all for that matter when we could just use dots on the screen and "imagine" the rest. Because at the end of the day we all want the experience to be as real or tangible as possible, and that's part of immersion for me.
Funny, I was making a similar point in another thread; I was against buying characters as it dissolves RP, but then conversely I was also under the impression that not only was there almost none of this happenign anyway, but that the vast majority of players didnt even want it. I was always under the impression it was a MMORPG. Ive been informed by several people that it is not. I hope they are not correct. I think it's whatever you make it.
I make it a MMORPG. Spend my days in space murdering folks, nights writing and doing some RP. I love EVE *shrug* and dunno why people try to say there should be no RPG in our MMO. If there's none in their playstyle then cool, enjoy your EVE as you do.
Don't get me wrong though, my personal support for a wis like concept doesn't only come from being an RPer. I can also see it's potential for graphics which I love making and other ways to spend downtime ingame without logging. Others here who aren't RPers at all have pointed to many other uses for such a concept, whether practical or otherwise. We're all here to burn some time, escape or be entertained. In our own ways.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
corbexx for CSM X
|
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
179
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 12:21:12 -
[339] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Steppa Musana wrote: I also think the antiWiS attitiude of CCP is a knee jerk reaction to players crying about it.
That, or the fact that it very nearly killed their company.
The economy was fine in CCP when WiS got canceled in 2011, they wanted to develop World of Darkness and Dust 514. 2 years later the CCP economy took a beating, and they canceled the big developments. Alos there was rumours that CCP was cleaning up their expences to discuss a merge, or sale, to Sony.
So if they HAD implemented WiS, but stopped the "microtransactions" and the other stuff which was the reason to the massive complaints, EVE would been more healthy and attracted more players.
|
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
44
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 12:23:57 -
[340] - Quote
Candi LeMew wrote:
I make it a MMORPG. Spend my days in space murdering folks, nights writing and doing some RP. I love EVE *shrug* and dunno why people try to say there should be no RPG in our MMO. If there's none in their playstyle then cool, enjoy your EVE as you do.
Don't get me wrong though, my personal support for a wis like concept doesn't only come from being an RPer. I can also see it's potential for graphics which I love making and other ways to spend downtime ingame without logging. Others here who aren't RPers at all have pointed to many other uses for such a concept, whether practical or otherwise. We're all here to burn some time, escape or be entertained. In our own ways.
Fair enough.
Ive had to try to incorporate mine into financing space murder as much as possible as I couldnt find any anywhere |
|
Thonys Visser
Green Visstick High
5
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 13:17:12 -
[341] - Quote
I think it is still very strange i can not meet other players in station
to do trading meet other people meet friends meet the enemy and talk it all over
it is such a missed opportunity |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11913
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 13:29:26 -
[342] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote: So if they HAD implemented WiS, but stopped the "microtransactions" and the other stuff which was the reason to the massive complaints, EVE would been more healthy and attracted more players.
Citation needed.
Because I've never met anyone who would have started playing EVE Online, being what it is, just because it might have had Space Barbies.
The kind of player that is interested in such a fluff feature doesn't exactly mesh well with the kind of person who plays the actual game.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9896
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 13:39:07 -
[343] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote: So if they HAD implemented WiS, but stopped the "microtransactions" and the other stuff which was the reason to the massive complaints, EVE would been more healthy and attracted more players.
Citation needed. Because I've never met anyone who would have started playing EVE Online, being what it is, just because it might have had Space Barbies. The kind of player that is interested in such a fluff feature doesn't exactly mesh well with the kind of person who plays the actual game.
My personal dislike of the WiS idea is mostly because I find the idea (that tacking on some thing that is counter to the main theme and thrust of the game) to be stupid. That's most of it.
The rest of it is the WiS wanting forum community. I mean , has their ever been a more delusional crowd (other than the people who have been moaning about afk cloaking for the last 7 years)? Why would "more delusional people playing space barbie" be a good thing? They remind me greatly of LARPers I know.
Saying EVE Online needs more people like that is like saying "man, you know what this biker bar needs more of? Yuppies. Suit and tie yuppies, yea, that would fix this biker bar and make it a place bikers want to come to!!!!!!" |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
46
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 13:43:53 -
[344] - Quote
I agree with Jenn and Kaar, I always have and I probably always will
But reading this thread for the 30th-odd time is making me feel old in my very bones. |
ACESsiggy
University of Caille
30
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 13:53:44 -
[345] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote: So if they HAD implemented WiS, but stopped the "microtransactions" and the other stuff which was the reason to the massive complaints, EVE would been more healthy and attracted more players.
Citation needed. Because I've never met anyone who would have started playing EVE Online, being what it is, just because it might have had Space Barbies. The kind of player that is interested in such a fluff feature doesn't exactly mesh well with the kind of person who plays the actual game. My personal dislike of the WiS idea is mostly because I find the idea (that tacking on some thing that is counter to the main theme and thrust of the game) to be stupid. That's most of it. Saying EVE Online needs more people like that is like saying "man, you know what this biker bar needs more of? Yuppies. Suit and tie yuppies, yea, that would fix this biker bar and make it a place bikers want to come to!!!!!!"
How can you Dislike the idea of enriching the game through further immersion? How can further interaction within the game be stupid? We all have our own opinions but throwing down an analogy of a bikers' bar and not wanting to attract white collar workers is silly. I think you meant to say is this biker bar is controlled by Hellz Angels and no other gangs are allowed. =ƒÿë
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
|
Shelby Dusette
Isogen 5
9613
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:05:00 -
[346] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote: So if they HAD implemented WiS, but stopped the "microtransactions" and the other stuff which was the reason to the massive complaints, EVE would been more healthy and attracted more players.
Citation needed. Because I've never met anyone who would have started playing EVE Online, being what it is, just because it might have had Space Barbies. The kind of player that is interested in such a fluff feature doesn't exactly mesh well with the kind of person who plays the actual game. My personal dislike of the WiS idea is mostly because I find the idea (that tacking on some thing that is counter to the main theme and thrust of the game) to be stupid. That's most of it. The rest of it is the WiS wanting forum community. I mean , has their ever been a more delusional crowd (other than the people who have been moaning about afk cloaking for the last 7 years)? Why would "more delusional people playing space barbie" be a good thing? They remind me greatly of LARPers I know. Saying EVE Online needs more people like that is like saying "man, you know what this biker bar needs more of? Yuppies. Suit and tie yuppies, yea, that would fix this biker bar and make it a place bikers want to come to!!!!!!" Getting a bit angry there. Dat server downtime.
Don't Mind Us - Isogen 5 (Now Recruiting)
CCP Eterne: "Naked avatars for PLEX." =ƒÆï
Andrew Jester: "my posting brings all the bads to the yard, and they're like, I'm better than you"
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11914
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:10:40 -
[347] - Quote
ACESsiggy wrote: How can you Dislike the idea of enriching the game through further immersion?
The part where wasting years of dev resources on it in the first place almost killed the game.
Since I don't hate this game, I don't want WiS to happen, ever again.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9900
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:10:43 -
[348] - Quote
ACESsiggy wrote:
How can you Dislike the idea of enriching the game through further immersion?
There it is, the thing WiS types do not get or understand. Not everyone likes the same things
I am not an 'immersion' gamer. I'm not pretending that I'm some goo-cover immortal who is captaining a spaceship full of expendable 'normals' who were only born to do my bidding. I'm a gamer , sitting in front of a computer, having fun by making new fits and putting them into 'internet space' to see if I can make a ship kill NPCs faster while chatting with like minded folks over teamspeak.
EVE Online is the least 'immersive' game I've ever played. It's the least Role player friendly. Outside of high sec it's the least carebear friendly. It's a game for engineer types more than it is for dreamers who like to 'live' their fantasies (as evidenced by its VERY small RP community compared to other games).
It (for the most part) attracts and rough and ready type of gamer unlike the universal squishyness found in the communities of most MMOs. It's perfect for people like me while repelling the kinds of people we come to EVE to get away from in the 1st place (with the exception of high sec.....). Attempts to add to it's 'immersion' or 'broaden it's community' are no more than attempts to drive away the current unique community and replace it with types that would not have played the original form of EVE.
No thanks. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9900
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:12:57 -
[349] - Quote
Shelby Dusette wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote: So if they HAD implemented WiS, but stopped the "microtransactions" and the other stuff which was the reason to the massive complaints, EVE would been more healthy and attracted more players.
Citation needed. Because I've never met anyone who would have started playing EVE Online, being what it is, just because it might have had Space Barbies. The kind of player that is interested in such a fluff feature doesn't exactly mesh well with the kind of person who plays the actual game. My personal dislike of the WiS idea is mostly because I find the idea (that tacking on some thing that is counter to the main theme and thrust of the game) to be stupid. That's most of it. The rest of it is the WiS wanting forum community. I mean , has their ever been a more delusional crowd (other than the people who have been moaning about afk cloaking for the last 7 years)? Why would "more delusional people playing space barbie" be a good thing? They remind me greatly of LARPers I know. Saying EVE Online needs more people like that is like saying "man, you know what this biker bar needs more of? Yuppies. Suit and tie yuppies, yea, that would fix this biker bar and make it a place bikers want to come to!!!!!!" Getting a bit angry there. Dat server downtime.
Dat foolishness. I happen to not even be at home where I can play EVE this particular morning.
And if you think that's anger, you've never met an angry person. How can someone be angry over WINNING (CCP isn't doing any WiS stuff so that's victory).
|
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
46
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:15:38 -
[350] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: EVE Online is the least 'immersive' game I've ever played. It's the least Role player friendly.
Oh I have to disagree there Jenn.
Even without realising it, your goo-haver has a personality of her own.
Even if most people play the "Ha-ha RPers are all broney he-shes who use "RP" as an excuse to have what they call sex with each other", the best sides of EvE involve an immersive RP experience.
AIt all depends how meta you wanna get.
Pretty much any interaction with other players outside of my trusted circle of pals is an RP.
Each and every alt I have is a joy to use in a different way.
Convincing other players they know what to expect from you, then slitting their throats and emptying their corp coffers into yours would be impossible with out it. |
|
Shelby Dusette
Isogen 5
9613
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:23:01 -
[351] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Shelby Dusette wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote: So if they HAD implemented WiS, but stopped the "microtransactions" and the other stuff which was the reason to the massive complaints, EVE would been more healthy and attracted more players.
Citation needed. Because I've never met anyone who would have started playing EVE Online, being what it is, just because it might have had Space Barbies. The kind of player that is interested in such a fluff feature doesn't exactly mesh well with the kind of person who plays the actual game. My personal dislike of the WiS idea is mostly because I find the idea (that tacking on some thing that is counter to the main theme and thrust of the game) to be stupid. That's most of it. The rest of it is the WiS wanting forum community. I mean , has their ever been a more delusional crowd (other than the people who have been moaning about afk cloaking for the last 7 years)? Why would "more delusional people playing space barbie" be a good thing? They remind me greatly of LARPers I know. Saying EVE Online needs more people like that is like saying "man, you know what this biker bar needs more of? Yuppies. Suit and tie yuppies, yea, that would fix this biker bar and make it a place bikers want to come to!!!!!!" Getting a bit angry there. Dat server downtime. Dat foolishness. I happen to not even be at home where I can play EVE this particular morning. And if you think that's anger, you've never met an angry person. How can someone be angry over WINNING (CCP isn't doing any WiS stuff so that's victory). But do you pity the fool?
We really do need a killboard for all these competing-playstyles to keep track of who's "winning" and who's losing.
Why can't they all just get along?
.... and share a drink in station.
Don't Mind Us - Isogen 5 (Now Recruiting)
CCP Eterne: "Naked avatars for PLEX." =ƒÆï
Andrew Jester: "my posting brings all the bads to the yard, and they're like, I'm better than you"
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9900
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:30:17 -
[352] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: EVE Online is the least 'immersive' game I've ever played. It's the least Role player friendly.
Oh I have to disagree there Jenn. Even without realising it, your goo-haver has a personality of her own. And yes I know the sorts of things you like to do dont even involve PvP. Even if most people play the "Ha-ha RPers are all broney he-shes who use "RP" as an excuse to have what they call sex with each other", the best sides of EvE involve an immersive RP experience. AIt all depends how meta you wanna get. Pretty much any interaction with other players outside of my trusted circle of pals is an RP. Each and every alt I have is a joy to use in a different way. Convincing other players they know what to expect from you, then slitting their throats and emptying their corp coffers into yours would be impossible with out it.
I mean those terms in the 'traditional' sense. Immersion always meant 'being able to get away from the real world for a time'. I used to be an immersion player when i played mechwarrior games . Hours would fly by and I wouldn't realize it.
Role Playing always meant "I'm playing a fantasy role defined by the game". There were times playing WoW where I WAS a Night Elf Mage lol. I could turn into a mother %^&*# bear at will yo
That doesn't happen for me in EVE, which is exactly what I like in EVE and why EVE attracts folks like me. It's less fluff and more raw "you know you are playing with people, the space ships are just the chess pieces". When I wanna role play (less and less these days) I log in my Klingon Lieutenant General in STO .
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
47
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:37:27 -
[353] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I mean those terms in the 'traditional' sense. Immersion always meant 'being able to get away from the real world for a time'. I used to be an immersion player when i played mechwarrior games . Hours would fly by and I wouldn't realize it. Role Playing always meant "I'm playing a fantasy role defined by the game". There were times playing WoW where I WAS a Night Elf Mage lol. I could turn into a mother %^&*# bear at will yo That doesn't happen for me in EVE, which is exactly what I like in EVE and why EVE attracts folks like me. It's less fluff and more raw "you know you are playing with people, the space ships are just the chess pieces". When I wanna role play (less and less these days) I log in my Klingon Lieutenant General in STO .
Yeah fair enough. Though a pen and paper RPG's most defining factor is not its strict proscribing to a fictional backstory, but the character's ability to add to that backstory, change and manipulate it, to do anything they put their minds to do within it and have a chance to succeed.
To my mind, EvE is the ONLY online game that allows this.
WoW or STO just let you do a limited set of predestined things.
You can't even pick up a chair. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23288
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:40:51 -
[354] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:I agree with Jenn and Kaar, I always have and I probably always will
But reading this thread for the 30th-odd time is making me feel old in my very bones.
Um, but Ma.. you are old.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
47
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:42:53 -
[355] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:I agree with Jenn and Kaar, I always have and I probably always will
But reading this thread for the 30th-odd time is making me feel old in my very bones. Um, but Ma.. you are old.
Dangit |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11917
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:47:12 -
[356] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Dangit
I feel very disappointed that you didn't say "dag nabit" instead.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
48
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:53:47 -
[357] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Dangit
I feel very disappointed that you didn't say "dag nabit" instead.
Ban daggit |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11918
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:56:15 -
[358] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Dangit
I feel very disappointed that you didn't say "dag nabit" instead. Ban daggit
What did he ever do to you? I don't see a reason to ban him.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Maria Elena
6
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Posted - 2015.02.25 14:56:44 -
[359] - Quote
ACESsiggy wrote:
How can you Dislike the idea of enriching the game through further immersion? How can further interaction within the game be stupid? We all have our own opinions but throwing down an analogy of a bikers' bar and not wanting to attract white collar workers is silly. I think you meant to say is this biker bar is controlled by Hellz Angels and no other gangs are allowed. =ƒÿë
I totally agree.. the more fashion; the more immersion..
ok, ok.. and customizable skins for the ships too!
\o/
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
51
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:58:05 -
[360] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: Dangit
I feel very disappointed that you didn't say "dag nabit" instead. Ban daggit What did he ever do to you? I don't see a reason to ban him.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p154/kevoris/muffy1.jpg |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16150
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 15:04:57 -
[361] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote: So if they HAD implemented WiS, but stopped the "microtransactions" and the other stuff which was the reason to the massive complaints, EVE would been more healthy and attracted more players.
Citation needed. Because I've never met anyone who would have started playing EVE Online, being what it is, just because it might have had Space Barbies. The kind of player that is interested in such a fluff feature doesn't exactly mesh well with the kind of person who plays the actual game.
Actually there are quite a few people exactly like that. But by definition, people without EVE accounts don't post here.
Had the Incarna project been run remotely competently, it's quite possible that it wold have been extremely successful and popular. But we'll never know, because it was in fact a management disaster of epic proportions, and CCP lack the resources to repeat the experiment. Talking about it is about as useful as arguing about "what would have happened if the American Revolution never happened" or "What if the Black Death went east instead of West" or whatever.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11918
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 15:09:42 -
[362] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Actually there are quite a few people exactly like that. But by definition, people without EVE accounts don't post here.
You missed the point.
No one who would not have otherwise considered EVE, would have given it another go based on what Incarna turned out to be.
And anyone who does play EVE now does not do so because of what little Incarna brought. They play the game on it's own merits.
Incarna was, in all ways, a net loss that should never be repeated.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Zander Kumamato
Chaos Crusaders
41
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 15:24:37 -
[363] - Quote
I think they should have turned "world of darkness" into "Civilian districts" on the planet surfaces to extend the WIS into a third type of planet side game for Eve..
Derp. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16150
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 15:41:28 -
[364] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Malcanis wrote: Actually there are quite a few people exactly like that. But by definition, people without EVE accounts don't post here.
You missed the point. No one who would not have otherwise considered EVE, would have given it another go based on what Incarna turned out to be.
Your faith in human rationality is touching. How on earth have you maintained it?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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iforumizer Hamabu
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 15:59:41 -
[365] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: EVE Online is the least 'immersive' game I've ever played. It's the least Role player friendly.
Oh I have to disagree there Jenn. Even without realising it, your goo-haver has a personality of her own. And yes I know the sorts of things you like to do dont even involve PvP. Even if most people play the "Ha-ha RPers are all broney he-shes who use "RP" as an excuse to have what they call sex with each other", the best sides of EvE involve an immersive RP experience. AIt all depends how meta you wanna get. Pretty much any interaction with other players outside of my trusted circle of pals is an RP. Each and every alt I have is a joy to use in a different way. Convincing other players they know what to expect from you, then slitting their throats and emptying their corp coffers into yours would be impossible with out it. I mean those terms in the 'traditional' sense. Immersion always meant 'being able to get away from the real world for a time'. I used to be an immersion player when i played mechwarrior games . Hours would fly by and I wouldn't realize it. Role Playing always meant "I'm playing a fantasy role defined by the game". There were times playing WoW where I WAS a Night Elf Mage lol. I could turn into a mother %^&*# bear at will yo That doesn't happen for me in EVE, which is exactly what I like in EVE and why EVE attracts folks like me. It's less fluff and more raw "you know you are playing with people, the space ships are just the chess pieces". When I wanna role play (less and less these days) I log in my Klingon Lieutenant General in STO .
Quite interesting topic. I do think in fact that EVE manages to blend the line between Role Playing and Out-of-character Playing in a way that no other MMORPG does. This can be seen from nullsec politics to highsec ganking, where players feel like writing large pieces of manifestos and propaganda for the sake of legitimizing their in-game activities. Even the most mundane of EVE activities is seasoned with sci-fi RP-ish vocabulary.
The only difference between those other games you mention where you feel like role playing and EVE is that in EVE you're a spaceship. It's easier to identify yourself with a character than with a spaceship. And it will stay this way until CCP adds WiS.
Once upon a time, EVE was meant to be the ultimate sci-fi experience. It was real. They had this crazy vision about ambulation that they started showing more than half a decade ago, and WiS has been a part of EVE ever since. Starcitizen has proven that people embraces the idea of a game more than the game itself. |
Freelancer117
so you want to be a Hero
264
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 16:03:05 -
[366] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2bp2cp/i_am_andie_nordgren_ccp_seagull_the_new_executive/cj9jw51
Quote:I have no plans to add walking in stations features to the EVE Online client. If we do this, it will likely end up as a second game client - but no such plans are currently in development. CCP still holds the vision for the avatar experience, but all avatar based gameplay outside character creation and customization for EVE Online is on indefinite hold.
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
GÇÖChilde Roland to the Dark Tower came.GÇÖ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY3oMRLfArU
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
51
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 16:04:38 -
[367] - Quote
iforumizer Hamabu wrote: The only difference between those other games you mention where you feel like role playing and EVE is that in EVE you're a spaceship.
I dont look like a spaceship.
In World of Tanks, you are always a tank. But Im rarely in the same grid let alone the same systema s most people I interact with.
When I send an Evemail, they dont picture a Bestower. They picture my cheerful visage.
EDIT: Star Citizen proves that people will buy ice in the arctic. I dont see the appeal. |
Reiisha
709
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 16:08:20 -
[368] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Malcanis wrote: Actually there are quite a few people exactly like that. But by definition, people without EVE accounts don't post here.
You missed the point. No one who would not have otherwise considered EVE, would have given it another go based on what Incarna turned out to be. And anyone who does play EVE now does not do so because of what little Incarna brought. They play the game on it's own merits. Incarna was, in all ways, a net loss that should never be repeated.
Incarna was faulty, yes, but the concept for walking in stations isn't.
Rather than only seeing the failure of a tiny part (in no small part due to mismanagement i'm sure), try and see the possibilities for the future. Wouldn't you want to be able to gank people right in the kisser too? ;p
If EVE stays on 'just spaceships' forever it will be doomed to a niche - Yes, it will go on, but it will be a shadow of it's former self, especially in 10 years time when (i imagine) most MMO's support virtual worlds rather than just a screen in front of you. Besides, adding avatars properly also means more opportunities for adding to the spaceship gameplay: Boarding ships forcibly (always nice for pirates and gankers), ganking ships full of people that just wanted to get to the next station, etc etc.
I mean, if we should ditch ideas just because the first iteration was bad.... Look at the Audi C3 100 Avant Duo , one of the first hybrid cars. Didn't sell at all and had pitiful range. But well, people expanded on the idea over the years and now we have stuff like the LaFerrari or the McLaren P1 - Cars that still largely depend on their normal engines (spaceships) but use those electric motors for a really dramatic, added effect even though they technically represent a very minor part of the car (WiS).
At least, i see it that way. And all i see otherwise are people who are completely content with their Model T's and never ever ever want any change >_>
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
211
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Posted - 2015.02.25 16:19:52 -
[369] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Malcanis wrote: Actually there are quite a few people exactly like that. But by definition, people without EVE accounts don't post here.
You missed the point. No one who would not have otherwise considered EVE, would have given it another go based on what Incarna turned out to be. And anyone who does play EVE now does not do so because of what little Incarna brought. They play the game on it's own merits. Incarna was, in all ways, a net loss that should never be repeated. Incarna was faulty, yes, but the concept for walking in stations isn't. Rather than only seeing the failure of a tiny part (in no small part due to mismanagement i'm sure), try and see the possibilities for the future. Wouldn't you want to be able to gank people right in the kisser too? ;p If EVE stays on 'just spaceships' forever it will be doomed to a niche - Yes, it will go on, but it will be a shadow of it's former self, especially in 10 years time when (i imagine) most MMO's support virtual worlds rather than just a screen in front of you. Besides, adding avatars properly also means more opportunities for adding to the spaceship gameplay: Boarding ships forcibly (always nice for pirates and gankers), ganking ships full of people that just wanted to get to the next station, etc etc. I mean, if we should ditch ideas just because the first iteration was bad.... Look at the Audi C3 100 Avant Duo , one of the first hybrid cars. Didn't sell at all and had pitiful range. But well, people expanded on the idea over the years and now we have stuff like the LaFerrari or the McLaren P1 - Cars that still largely depend on their normal engines (spaceships) but use those electric motors for a really dramatic, added effect even though they technically represent a very minor part of the car (WiS). At least, i see it that way. And all i see otherwise are people who are completely content with their Model T's and never ever ever want any change >_>
car comparrison is pretty bad as the classic car market is pretty huge where people want the old basic stuff because it works and it works well and there is nothing better than raw power and basic to the point function and that market is probably bigger than the highend mclaren p1's.
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
979
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 16:47:28 -
[370] - Quote
Tillek wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:EVE wasn't designed with avatar play in mind. . Let me stop you right there. I have here in my hand my manual I bought with the game back in 03.. Guess what is mentions.. Oh that's right A living breathing Sci Fi world with walking in stations atmospheric flight. Quoted for emphasis.Jenn aSide wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:One half decent developer should be able to bang this out within two weeks. You can tell an idea is a bad one when someone describes how easy it would be for someone else to do something lol. Except, I am actually a developer, so I can already imagine the sort of code structures involved.
I didn't say they can slap this out in an hour or a day, I said they can do this in two weeks because it will probably take him a week to make the first iteration of it and then get colleagues to have a look over his work. Run some tests and polish it during the second week.
Sibyyl wrote:Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about ... How people play table top games, how the first 3D games worked. You can just put in a representation, an anchor for the imagination and the player does the rest.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
179
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 16:50:03 -
[371] - Quote
OKAY.....
-----> Make an online survey, just YES or No for WiS. (Online Surveys can easly be made With no cost)
------> Put link to the survey in local cghat, ally chat, get others to distribuate the link... send to corps, alliances.
Get others than forumusers to give their opinion.
Put result for the vote in the forum. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9903
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 16:58:46 -
[372] - Quote
iforumizer Hamabu wrote:
This can be seen from nullsec politics to highsec ganking, where players feel like writing large pieces of manifestos and propaganda for the sake of legitimizing their in-game activities.
The people who are writing 'manifestos' aren't trying to legitimize anything. They are writing those because they know that the people they are aiming at will read those, and because they don't understand they are being screwed with, they will take it at face value and think that it's real.
It's still amazing to me after all these years observing the internet how guillible people can be (not you, just saying in general). I've had people post links to that 'miner bumping' site on this forum as proof that they are 'serious' and I'm like "you can't be that stupid, you don't see that it's your tears that is fueling this?".
Quote: The only difference between those other games you mention where you feel like role playing and EVE is that in EVE you're a spaceship. It's easier to identify yourself with a character than with a spaceship. And it will stay this way until CCP adds WiS.
This is kind of what I'm talking about when I talk about different gamers and their styles/needs. I'm not a space ship. When I'm playing EVE that ship on the screen (if I'm not zoomed all the way out, which I usually am, my computer has all the power of a wounded Atari 2600) is a TOOL, it's not 'me'. I don't need to 'identify' with it any more than I identify with my hammer when I'm pounding a nail on my deck lol.
That's one of the draws of EVE (for people like me), it doesn't force you to pretend anything (you can, I knew one dude who was an FC and instead of saying 'launch drones' he's command us to 'launch vipers' like his name was Adama or something lol). Some of us don't like being 'immersed' in a game and losing track of time or sense of self, we aren't running from real life, when we play a game (like EVE) it's a kind of mental excercise, not an 'escape'.
The conflict (for me) comes up when people want CCP to push EVE more into the 'immersion/escape' category. I say that if you want that, go play one of the 100s of existing games that do that rather than take away from what EVE is to cater to people that do't want EVE in the 1st place.
Quote: Once upon a time, EVE was meant to be the ultimate sci-fi experience. It was real. They had this crazy vision about ambulation that they started showing more than half a decade ago, and WiS has been a part of EVE ever since. Starcitizen has proven that people embraces the idea of a game more than the game itself.
Which is why it's good that people have a choice. Play EVE (a not-so RPG type MMO) if you liek spaceships and spreadsheets and 'no nonsense gameplay' or play a game like SC or Elite and spend 5 minutes walking around your ship looking out windows while you are on final descent to a planetary surface.
The 'ultimate sci-fi experience' may have been the original idea for EVE, but that's not what it became and that's generally not the kind of community it spawned.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
623
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 16:59:37 -
[373] - Quote
Zander Kumamato wrote:I think they should have turned "world of darkness" into "Civilian districts" on the planet surfaces to extend the WIS into a third type of planet side game for Eve..
Assuming multiple characters could ever even function properly in WoD. All they ever showed us was a fly through of some city scene assets. No players anywhere to be seen. It was probably pretty much like CQ. Nothing to do and runs like crap. CQ is the same tech as WoD and it makes my graphics card sound like a vacuum cleaner with just myself standing around in one room.
If CCP were to give WiS another go I wouldn't be surprised if it makes more sense to start over from scratch using Unreal or something.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9903
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 17:01:48 -
[374] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:OKAY.....
-----> Make an online survey, just YES or No for WiS. (Online Surveys can easly be made With no cost)
------> Put link to the survey in local cghat, ally chat, get others to distribuate the link... send to corps, alliances.
Get others than forumusers to give their opinion.
Put result for the vote in the forum.
You didn't finish your post. The last sentnece should have been:
"Then whatever the vote result is, DO THE OPPOSITE"
Quote:Back in 2009, Walmart surveyed its customers and asked GÇ£Would you like Walmart to be less cluttered?GÇ¥ They said yes. So Walmart cleared out space and reduced inventory and customer satisfaction shot up. However, same-store sales plummeted, by Phil TerryGÇÖs estimate, by $1.85 billion, and now Walmart has fired the team that put the idea into place and is spending hundreds of millions to undo what they spent hundreds of millions doing.
People don't know what they want, asking them it thusly stupid.
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
179
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 17:08:07 -
[375] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:OKAY.....
-----> Make an online survey, just YES or No for WiS. (Online Surveys can easly be made With no cost)
------> Put link to the survey in local cghat, ally chat, get others to distribuate the link... send to corps, alliances.
Get others than forumusers to give their opinion.
Put result for the vote in the forum. You didn't finish your post. The last sentnece should have been: "Then whatever the vote result is, DO THE OPPOSITE" Quote:Back in 2009, Walmart surveyed its customers and asked GÇ£Would you like Walmart to be less cluttered?GÇ¥ They said yes. So Walmart cleared out space and reduced inventory and customer satisfaction shot up. However, same-store sales plummeted, by Phil TerryGÇÖs estimate, by $1.85 billion, and now Walmart has fired the team that put the idea into place and is spending hundreds of millions to undo what they spent hundreds of millions doing. People don't know what they want, asking them it thusly stupid.
Well, the situsation here is kinda the opposite, players want more clutter, ergo players are smarter and not stupid as you say they are... not Nice of you to label People as stupid ;) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9903
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 17:09:56 -
[376] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:OKAY.....
-----> Make an online survey, just YES or No for WiS. (Online Surveys can easly be made With no cost)
------> Put link to the survey in local cghat, ally chat, get others to distribuate the link... send to corps, alliances.
Get others than forumusers to give their opinion.
Put result for the vote in the forum. You didn't finish your post. The last sentnece should have been: "Then whatever the vote result is, DO THE OPPOSITE" Quote:Back in 2009, Walmart surveyed its customers and asked GÇ£Would you like Walmart to be less cluttered?GÇ¥ They said yes. So Walmart cleared out space and reduced inventory and customer satisfaction shot up. However, same-store sales plummeted, by Phil TerryGÇÖs estimate, by $1.85 billion, and now Walmart has fired the team that put the idea into place and is spending hundreds of millions to undo what they spent hundreds of millions doing. People don't know what they want, asking them it thusly stupid. Well, the situsation here is kinda the opposite, players want more clutter, ergo players are smarter and not stupid as you say they are... not Nice of you to label People as stupid ;)
That sound you heard behind you was the sound a point makes when it flies completely past you without you noticing. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
623
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 17:11:39 -
[377] - Quote
Tillek wrote:I have here in my hand my manual I bought with the game back in 03.. Guess what is mentions.. Oh that's right A living breathing Sci Fi world with walking in stations atmospheric flight.
Are you serious? CCP sold the game advertizing features that do not exist? Yikes. That is pretty shady.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16151
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 22:01:28 -
[378] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:OKAY.....
-----> Make an online survey, just YES or No for WiS. (Online Surveys can easly be made With no cost)
------> Put link to the survey in local cghat, ally chat, get others to distribuate the link... send to corps, alliances.
Get others than forumusers to give their opinion.
Put result for the vote in the forum. You didn't finish your post. The last sentnece should have been: "Then whatever the vote result is, DO THE OPPOSITE" Quote:Back in 2009, Walmart surveyed its customers and asked GÇ£Would you like Walmart to be less cluttered?GÇ¥ They said yes. So Walmart cleared out space and reduced inventory and customer satisfaction shot up. However, same-store sales plummeted, by Phil TerryGÇÖs estimate, by $1.85 billion, and now Walmart has fired the team that put the idea into place and is spending hundreds of millions to undo what they spent hundreds of millions doing. People don't know what they want, asking them it thusly stupid.
Counterpoint "Watch what they do, not what they say" thinking worked out even worse for CCP.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7935
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 22:36:05 -
[379] - Quote
Quote:Back in 2009, Walmart surveyed its customers and asked GÇ£Would you like Walmart to be less cluttered?GÇ¥ They said yes. So Walmart cleared out space and reduced inventory and customer satisfaction shot up. However, same-store sales plummeted, by Phil TerryGÇÖs estimate, by $1.85 billion, and now Walmart has fired the team that put the idea into place and is spending hundreds of millions to undo what they spent hundreds of millions doing. Cluttered, was a way to make money. If people have to go thru whole store and search what they want, it is more probable, that they will buy more, something more could catch their attention. With that in mind, CCP should add WIS to make it more cluttered, in opposition to WiS haters.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23417
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 23:18:26 -
[380] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about ... How people play table top games, how the first 3D games worked. You can just put in a representation, an anchor for the imagination and the player does the rest.
I think meaningful content as described by CCP, and something I agree with:
Quote:Meaningful in this instance meant that there was some core gameplay that really required you to be an avatar rather than having stuff that occurs whilst your avatar just happens to be stood around.
Tabletop doesn't have graphics at all. You are looking out at the other players across the table and imagining the entire scene. My experience with it twice did not include miniatures or maps or anything of the sort. It was all verbal description, expressions, and so on.
The first 3d games were in and of themselves trend setting. We could accept those limitations because we were getting something cutting edge. It is safe to say that though Carbon is quite capable and good looking, in terms of capabilities and performance it is not the best example of a 3d graphical multiplayer environment in present day.
Not only do we not have a core EVE game related reason for many players to use the feature, we are discussing release of an engine that has trouble with physically rendered cloth and hair and suffers from performance defects with multiple players present.
I can appreciate the vision, the dream of a sci fi world that is "complete", but I think there is some denial here about the technical state of the solution and the amount of effort that would be required to realize that dream. WIS would not be "low hanging fruit" by any definition of software project management.
Guess what, low hanging fruit is the most productive type of ideas to discuss for Character Creator. This is CCP's own suggestion. I don't want to tell you guys not to dream stuff up.. by all means do that.. but you are letting those get in the way of meaningful expectations in this space.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
57
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 07:39:46 -
[381] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:OKAY.....
-----> Make an online survey, just YES or No for WiS. (Online Surveys can easily be made With no cost)
------> Put link to the survey in local chat, ally chat, get others to distribute the link... send to corps, alliances.
Get others than forum users to give their opinion.
Put result for the vote in the forum.
And.. what?
What do you expect this utter waste of time to accomplish? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4290
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 08:12:16 -
[382] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:People don't know what they want, asking them it thusly stupid.
in the example case it's less about what people want and more about the difference between what people want versus what influences us to buy. the loss of profit doesn't indicate that people didn't want or like the change
the lesson learned is not 'people don't know what they want', it's about considering the store's needs as well as the customers' desires
an open yes or no form on wis is way too simple to gauge what people actually want, though, and is a terrible basis for drawing a conclusion
the question is also entirely moot considering wis is just not going to happen. maybe one day the door will open and we'll get an antechamber with wis' last words written on the mirror in blood |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4290
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 08:28:57 -
[383] - Quote
unfortunately the antechamber's three extra square metres of space doubles the cq's computational resource requirement |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
57
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 08:34:45 -
[384] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: an open yes or no form on wis is way too simple to gauge what people actually want, though, and is a terrible basis for drawing a conclusion
I know what you mean.
Do you want WiS?
To non-WiSSers this means "Would you like lots of money and time spent to develop a corridor and a room with chairs in it, emoticons and hats?"
To WiSSers this means " A whole different aspect to the game with opening chests and swinging on ropes and cutting people's hair and keying in secret codes to find crystal skulls and then going to round to your enemy's CQ and caving their head in with said skull"
I dont really want either tbh |
erg cz
Tribal Core
141
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 08:39:55 -
[385] - Quote
Capsuler strength is ability of a capsule to transfer consciousness in the moment of death. No capsule = you death is the end. Walking in stations mean you can lose all your skills and start new char if someone kills you. |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
57
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 08:41:38 -
[386] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Capsuler strength is ability of a capsule to transfer consciousness in the moment of death. No capsule = you death is the end. Walking in stations mean you can lose all your skills and start new char if someone kills you.
What?
That cant be right.
So what, they destroy all your saved clones if you die in a horrible station accident? |
erg cz
Tribal Core
141
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 08:45:28 -
[387] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
So what, they destroy all your saved clones if you die in a horrible station accident?
Clones stay, but there is no way to get your consciousness into them. So they are useless. And will be biomassed, I supposed. So the answer is yes. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1934
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 08:59:53 -
[388] - Quote
erg cz wrote: Clones stay, but there is no way to get your consciousness into them. So they are useless. And will be biomassed, I suppose. So the answer is yes.
My understanding of the lore is that isn't true. You can do manual backups which take longer. So you 'could' in theory under the current lore lose 30 minutes of time or something. But not permanent. Also the lore is heading towards Gurista's cracking the code for porting into different kinds of clones, so you could use the dust type implants on station to instant back up also. |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
57
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 09:04:32 -
[389] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
So what, they destroy all your saved clones if you die in a horrible station accident?
Clones stay, but there is no way to get your consciousness into them. So they are useless. And will be biomassed, I suppose. So the answer is yes.
Conciousess? Like a soul?
The clones wake up with the last memories I had when I was last uploaded.
If no record exists of how I met my fate, then they wake up missing the last week or whatever.
There is no magic "spark" of a soul.
We are not robots and clones are not empty shells. |
Alcaman
Followers of Odin
1
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 10:25:11 -
[390] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: an open yes or no form on wis is way too simple to gauge what people actually want, though, and is a terrible basis for drawing a conclusion
I know what you mean. Do you want WiS? To non-WiSSers this means "Would you like lots of money and time spent to develop a corridor and a room with chairs in it, emoticons and hats?" To WiSSers this means " A whole different aspect to the game with opening chests and swinging on ropes and cutting people's hair and keying in secret codes to find crystal skulls and then going to round to your enemy's CQ and caving their head in with said skull" I dont really want either tbh
I can't speak for anybody else, but here are the reasons to why i want WiS:
- Improvement to the GUI. GUI could be less cluttered if you allowed for certain functionality to be used in certain areas in the station. This could therefore be a step towards improving the user interface.
- People spend most of the time docked and chatting. If we had a place where these people could see each others avatar it would bring immersion. This would be as "simple" as extending the current captains quarter with essentially one more room and allow to see other visitors on the station.
Nothing more.. nothing fancy.. just a small step from where we are today...
- Alcaman Hunter of dustbunnies
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
214
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 10:41:36 -
[391] - Quote
the reasons why i dont really want it/cant see any useful purpose is,
the argument of being able to see people when chatting, this is usually done in corp chat etc or even on teamspeak so i see this feature only being used maybe once then everyone will get bored and revert to the easier way (chat chanel, ship spinning and possibly undocking for solo stuff out of boredom).
it demands a whole new team of developers who would have to be focussed only on the wis feature meaning double workload and whole lot more feature requests/broken stuff which needs fixed.
the only real feature i see pro-wis coming up with is being able to see people while talking or invite people to cq for whatever it is they intend to do with some other avatar (i dread to think)
the server load of having 1600 people in jita is already pretty high, imagine adding the wis in jita with even more interaction than is currently available
i cant see trade ever being a thing in wis as the market is player driven and the amount mods people buy for ships would be a huge time wasting operation running around a station to buy everything from traders.
giving people even more reason to stay docked, im not a fan of wardeccers wardeccing miners but giving miners this alternative to undocking is ruining a good amount of careers within the game. (not just miners, all non-combat players)
would it affect the market? maybe if more people are not undocking because they are having much fun in the station.
so based on the above reasons i would say wis would be bad for the game and i would vote NO
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
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Alcaman
Followers of Odin
1
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 11:01:18 -
[392] - Quote
And I totally respect your opinions.. You have valid points and I must admit that I am a sucker for everything that can add to the immersion :)
I just hope that this is something that CCP can consider..
But lets get rid of the thought that it needs a whole team of developers. This is a myth and certainly not necessary to start developing in this area.
As I understand the developers at CCP have a 80/20 or 90/10 allocation. This means that 80% of your time goes to your team and 20% goes to your "dream" project that you as a developer decide on.
WiS could therefore be a "dream" project for one or more developers, this would therefore not be draining any real resources from the actual development of the core game mechanics.
Oh and... in software development there is NO 1 to 1 correlation between hours spent developing and "value" created. Therefore saying that if you work 8 hours you get more features than working 4 hours is not necessarily true.
- Alcaman
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Thonys Visser
Green Visstick High
5
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 11:19:10 -
[393] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:ACESsiggy wrote:
How can you Dislike the idea of enriching the game through further immersion?
There it is, the thing WiS types do not get or understand. Not everyone likes the same things I am not an 'immersion' gamer. I'm not pretending that I'm some goo-cover immortal who is captaining a spaceship full of expendable 'normals' who were only born to do my bidding. I'm a gamer , sitting in front of a computer, having fun by making new fits and putting them into 'internet space' to see if I can make a ship kill NPCs faster while chatting with like minded folks over teamspeak. EVE Online is the least 'immersive' game I've ever played. It's the least Role player friendly. Outside of high sec it's the least carebear friendly. It's a game for engineer types more than it is for dreamers who like to 'live' their fantasies (as evidenced by its VERY small RP community compared to other games). It (for the most part) attracts and rough and ready type of gamer unlike the universal squishyness found in the communities of most MMOs. It's perfect for people like me while repelling the kinds of people we come to EVE to get away from in the 1st place (with the exception of high sec.....). Attempts to add to it's 'immersion' or 'broaden it's community' are no more than attempts to drive away the current unique community and replace it with types that would not have played the original form of EVE. No thanks.
I have a solution for ++our anger " and yes only for you perhaps WiS only in high sec ? perhaps your are happy now
remember you are not the only guy/girl in this game.. it seems you forget that all the time... |
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
179
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 11:57:37 -
[394] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:OKAY.....
-----> Make an online survey, just YES or No for WiS. (Online Surveys can easily be made With no cost)
------> Put link to the survey in local chat, ally chat, get others to distribute the link... send to corps, alliances.
Get others than forum users to give their opinion.
Put result for the vote in the forum. And.. what? What do you expect this utter waste of time to accomplish?
This will give a more Complete Picture of what the users of EVE think about it, and not the the few forum fanatics opinion. what you think cant be counted as what all EVE players thinks. To me, it appears that some forumusers belive that what they mean, reflexts ALL players in EVE.
Ergo would a survey make much better argument than 20 forumusers bickering page up and page Down, each one more stubborn than the other. |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
62
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 12:28:46 -
[395] - Quote
Alcaman wrote: I can't speak for anybody else
Alcaman wrote:People spend most of the time docked and chatting.
Now that is out of the way...
Alcaman wrote: Improvement to the GUI. GUI could be less cluttered if you allowed for certain functionality to be used in certain areas in the station. This could therefore be a step towards improving the user interface.
If the GUI is cluttered (and I dont feel it is), it is only so in space. In dock you either have a single bar (which you can minimise and isnt essential) reflecting the Station Services or the Neocom, or you have the CQ interface. Given most of the people I have heard voice an opinion dont use CQ, the Station bar is used the most of all the options. As it is a bank of large easy to click icons, it would seem the most efficient method. |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
62
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 12:29:51 -
[396] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote: This will give a more Complete Picture of what the users of EVE think about it, and not the the few forum fanatics opinion. what you think cant be counted as what all EVE players thinks. To me, it appears that some forumusers belive that what they mean, reflexts ALL players in EVE.
Ergo would a survey make much better argument than 20 forumusers bickering page up and page Down, each one more stubborn than the other.
And what makes you think CCP would care any more about it in that form than any other so far for the last 3 years?
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4292
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 13:23:05 -
[397] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:erg cz wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
So what, they destroy all your saved clones if you die in a horrible station accident?
Clones stay, but there is no way to get your consciousness into them. So they are useless. And will be biomassed, I suppose. So the answer is yes. Conciousess? Like a soul? The clones wake up with the last memories I had when I was last uploaded. If no record exists of how I met my fate, then they wake up missing the last week or whatever. There is no magic "spark" of a soul. We are not robots and clones are not empty shells. clones are made to look like the owner and contain no actual brain, just enough nerves to keep the body alive the brain cavity is filled with special gel the same size as the capsuleer's brain. connected to the gel is ftl communications and nervous reproduction hardware a scanner mounted in the pod automatically detects the position of every atom in the brain when a pod breach is detected. this scan is very intensive and will kill the person inside. the pod's ftl communications transmit the information to the waiting clone which replicates the brain at the time of death
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Capsule_and_the_Clone https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Cloning https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Transneural_burning_scanner |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 13:26:34 -
[398] - Quote
This is the worst thought out techno-guff I have ever read.
Goo that turns into brains indeed.
Scanners that replicate every atom in the human mind.
Clearly its nonsensical propaganda.
If this technology existed, why waste time with an organic body at all!
A tiny armoured box filled with goo wired into a crewless ship would be far more workable.
You cannot defeat the West with srime. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4292
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 13:34:48 -
[399] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:This is the worst thought out techno-guff I have ever read. didn't read* |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 13:41:46 -
[400] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:This is the worst thought out techno-guff I have ever read. didn't read*
I obviously did read it, I referenced your "facts" directly in my reply. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11924
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 13:50:41 -
[401] - Quote
You know, I was going to make a lengthy post, posing the question as to why this pathetic, glorified tech demo has enraptured a minority of diehards who want it at all costs, including the potential death of it's parent game...
And then I realized that Chris Roberts has made a fortune scamming exactly that kind of person.
Best of luck to all of you.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4293
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 13:54:29 -
[402] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:This is the worst thought out techno-guff I have ever read. didn't read* I obviously did read it, I referenced your "facts" directly in my reply. why is 'facts' in scare quotes
are you disputing my summary? because you still haven't read the articles |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 13:59:06 -
[403] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:This is the worst thought out techno-guff I have ever read. didn't read* I obviously did read it, I referenced your "facts" directly in my reply. why is 'facts' in scare quotes are you disputing my summary? because you still haven't read the articles
The word facts is in inverted commas because I don't accept that is how it does, would or could work. It is an implied tone.
Additionally, facts in fiction are by definition not facts.
I'm disputing your assertion than I didn't read your post because I obviously did. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3796
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:08:17 -
[404] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Zander Kumamato wrote:I think they should have turned "world of darkness" into "Civilian districts" on the planet surfaces to extend the WIS into a third type of planet side game for Eve.. Assuming multiple characters could ever even function properly in WoD. All they ever showed us was a fly through of some city scene assets. No players anywhere to be seen. It was probably pretty much like CQ. Nothing to do and runs like crap. CQ is the same tech as WoD and it makes my graphics card sound like a vacuum cleaner with just myself standing around in one room. If CCP were to give WiS another go I wouldn't be surprised if it makes more sense to start over from scratch using Unreal or something.
WoD was about to go beta testing in March 2014. Guess they had that multiplayer aspect ironed out in the 2+ years of further development which WoD enjoyed over the CQ in EVE.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4293
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:13:24 -
[405] - Quote
Quote:The word facts is in inverted commas because I don't accept that is how it does, would or could work. It is an implied tone.
so, scare quotes
Quote:I'm disputing your assertion than I didn't read your post because I obviously did.
you can click on the orange words in my post at any time. after having read the articles, you can say 'thankyou, benny, for taking the time to look up the evelopedia and write a summary for me. i'm sorry for insulting your efforts and for not having thanked you sooner' |
maCH'EttE
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
144
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:14:56 -
[406] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left. I would rather have CCP focus on more of the BROKEN things in Eve than having the pleasure of walking through a hallway or my captains Q. |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:29:51 -
[407] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:scare quotes
No, inverted commas. That's what those little things are actually called.
Benny Ohu wrote:you can click on the orange words in my post at any time. after having read the articles, you can say 'thankyou, benny, for taking the time to look up the evelopedia and write a summary for me. i'm sorry for insulting your efforts and for not having thanked you sooner'
As I already believe you when you say you have made a summary, I was able to tell that's what you had written without needing to read more about it.
If your summary was unacceptable, why would the same thing written in CCP's awful prose from 12 years ago be any more interesting? |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23456
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:33:16 -
[408] - Quote
Alcaman wrote:1. Improvement to the GUI. GUI could be less cluttered if you allowed for certain functionality to be used in certain areas in the station. This could therefore be a step towards improving the user interface.
Have you ever used Captain's Quarters? All the Station Services are provided inside.
This is a great example because accessing Station Services in hangar view is super quick. Accessing them in CQ means you have to watch your pilot slow walk to the console. Which option do you think people overwhelmingly choose?
Quote:2. People spend most of the time docked and chatting. If we had a place where these people could see each others avatar it would bring immersion. This would be as "simple" as extending the current captains quarter with essentially one more room and allow to see other visitors on the station.
CCP should never, ever implement a feature that encourahes someone not to undock. It runs counter to every other change they make to the game.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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erg cz
Tribal Core
141
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:40:25 -
[409] - Quote
Thank you. I could not wrote better. Apparently Ma'Baker McCandless do not want to read - it wants to write. Which makes any discussion with this character senseless.
Simple truth is mortal: if you die out of pod without DUST 514 equipment - you are done. Completely.
No clone preserves your consciousness (soul, mind records or individuality - pick yourself) in any "saved" form of any "last uploaded" moment of time. I have 4 jump clones. If each of them would posess exact copy of my memories at the certain time - there could be 4 times me if all those jump clones would awake due to some accident. |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:42:16 -
[410] - Quote
erg cz wrote: Simple truth is mortal: if you die out of pod without DUST 514 equipment - you are done. Completely.
And yet when it happens in game, you can respawn.
It happens.
Deal with it. |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9909
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:48:27 -
[411] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You know, I was going to make a lengthy post, posing the question as to why this pathetic, glorified tech demo has enraptured a minority of diehards who want it at all costs, including the potential death of it's parent game...
The answer is pretty easy actually. The kinds of people enraptured by that the demo aren't exclusive to EVE, they are all over the place (in games and out. Whether it's the "I want infantry" crowd in Tanks, "I want Elementals, Aerospace Fighters, Tanks and Drop ships" in every MechWarrior game since the original, or "I want avatars with light sabers in this game, I don't care ifthe name is 'X-wing vs Tie Fighter!!'", they are always the same.
They are the 'immersion' crowd and they want to 'live' their video games. They also tend to be adamant that this thing MUST happen in 'their' game so it did not (nd does not) matter that alternative exist. It doesn't matter to the infantry crowd that they can play Battlefield or CoD if they want combined arms.. It did not matter to the players of MechWarrior 3 and MechWarrior 4 that Starsiege (that at least had Tanks as well as mecha) existed, and to the WiS crowd, Star Trek Online and SWTOR might as well be rumors. No, THIS game must comply as well.
Contrast them with people like me who prefer those kinds of 'minimalist' games of just spaceships (and spreadsheets)or just tanks or just mechs or just X-wings and Tie fighters. We'll never see eye to eye because our fundamental gaming wants and needs are different. EVE as it is is enough for me.
Since it's a facet of a specific kind of unrealistically optimistic personality, it's not something that argument or reason can address. CCP could do an Incarna II that actually killed are seriously wounded the game and the WiS crowd would cling to "they didn't do it right" rather than admit "ok, it was a mistake to try to tack this kind of thing onto an old game".
Quote: And then I realized that Chris Roberts has made a fortune scamming exactly that kind of person.
Best of luck to all of you.
Many businesses do that. Alcohol , tobacco, fast food etc etc are all directly targeted at the must susceptible, and most gullible. Beyond that, companies and real life scammers make fortunes preying on the elderly who start to lose their sense of caution as they age.
Game companies (intentionally or unintentionally) design games to cater to the most unrealistic expectations of players, this is why Chris Roberts is rolling in the doe for something that hasn't been produced yet.
This is also why an Icelandic game maker could promise a 'living breathing sci-fi universe' 12 years ago and yet only deliver on 'spaceships and spreadsheets' but still be making money off the backs of....optimistic...people who believe "WiS is right around the corner" LOL. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23457
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:53:44 -
[412] - Quote
Why is everyone debating pod mechanics? CCP broke their own lore by trying to account for Incarna and Capsuleers wearing Gap jeans and America n Apparel tees.
We should be untanned, goo-stained ghosts with cables protruding out and breathing masks. In order to interact with the rest of humanity, the Calvin Klein model projection is used.. so we don't scare the kids.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
398304
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:55:40 -
[413] - Quote
Unless you can shoot people in the face, make ISK, lose ISK and possibly effect flying in space stuff, I don't really see much of a point in WiS. And even then it's still kinda iffy.
If its made purely for social interaction 'immersion' then its a total waste of time when you should be socializing in space by blowing **** up anyway. Anything that slows you down for fitting ships, moving items around in your hangar, missions and market would be terrible.
I'm about ready to say the best thing to do is to just remove all traces of portraits and avatars in Eve so we never have to deal with this stuff ever again. Would be good for the new players too, they wont get the impression that there might be avatar play.
I have also saw that Elite: Dangerous wants some sort of WiS aspect too. I wish them the best of luck but I dont see it being as cool or usefull as the also promised landing on planets.
Unlock all the clothes || My Fanclub
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
215
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 14:59:24 -
[414] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:I'm about ready to say the best thing to do is to just remove all traces of portraits and avatars in Eve so we never have to deal with this stuff ever again. Would be good for the new players too, they wont get the impression that there might be avatar play.
gotta keep the kodak spaceship barbies. hiya o/
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23461
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 15:02:09 -
[415] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:Unless you can shoot people in the face, make ISK, lose ISK and possibly effect flying in space stuff, I don't really see much of a point in WiS. And even then it's still kinda iffy.
If its made purely for social interaction 'immersion' then its a total waste of time when you should be socializing in space by blowing **** up anyway. Anything that slows you down for fitting ships, moving items around in your hangar, missions and market would be terrible.
I'm about ready to say the best thing to do is to just remove all traces of portraits and avatars in Eve so we never have to deal with this stuff ever again. Would be good for the new players too, they wont get the impression that there might be avatar play.
I have also saw that Elite: Dangerous wants some sort of WiS aspect too. I wish them the best of luck but I dont see it being as cool or usefull as the also promised landing on planets.
I think I've learned to spot a Kate troll when I see one.
In Opposite Day today are we?
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
398306
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 15:04:42 -
[416] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Commissar Kate wrote:Unless you can shoot people in the face, make ISK, lose ISK and possibly effect flying in space stuff, I don't really see much of a point in WiS. And even then it's still kinda iffy.
If its made purely for social interaction 'immersion' then its a total waste of time when you should be socializing in space by blowing **** up anyway. Anything that slows you down for fitting ships, moving items around in your hangar, missions and market would be terrible.
I'm about ready to say the best thing to do is to just remove all traces of portraits and avatars in Eve so we never have to deal with this stuff ever again. Would be good for the new players too, they wont get the impression that there might be avatar play.
I have also saw that Elite: Dangerous wants some sort of WiS aspect too. I wish them the best of luck but I dont see it being as cool or usefull as the also promised landing on planets. I think I've learned to spot a Kate troll when I see one. In Opposite Day today are we?
Haha, I'm dead serious about the WiS part.
Maybe went a little too far with the portrait thing though.
Unlock all the clothes || My Fanclub
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4294
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Posted - 2015.02.26 15:13:27 -
[417] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:scare quotes No, inverted commas. That's what those little things are actually called. EDIT: They are also sometimes called Quotation Marks, but they are not _quotes_. Benny Ohu wrote:you can click on the orange words in my post at any time. after having read the articles, you can say 'thankyou, benny, for taking the time to look up the evelopedia and write a summary for me. i'm sorry for insulting your efforts and for not having thanked you sooner' As I already believe you when you say you have made a summary, I was able to tell that's what you had written without needing to read more about it. If your summary was unacceptable, why would the same thing written in CCP's awful prose from 12 years ago be any more interesting? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes
now you can say 'thankyou, benny, for taking the time to look up the evelopedia and write a summary for me. i'm sorry for insulting your efforts and for not having thanked you sooner. additional thanks for teaching me a new phrase i hadn't heard before and was too lazy to google!'
i noticed you're still trying to be critical of something you've never seen for yourself |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 15:16:45 -
[418] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes now you can say 'thankyou, benny, for taking the time to look up the evelopedia and write a summary for me. i'm sorry for insulting your efforts and for not having thanked you sooner. additional thanks for teaching me a new phrase i hadn't heard before and was too lazy to google!' i noticed you're still trying to be critical of something you've never seen for yourself
I dont accept colloquialisms as being actual english. Try looking up the definition of a quote and maybe you might educate yourself.
And you can pat yourself on the back for pointlessly linking something that I didnt need to read because you had summarised it.
Maybe the thrid time Ive said this will be the time you actually could try understanding it instead of reading whatever it is you feel like reading and not whats written. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4294
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 15:25:01 -
[419] - Quote
[quote=Ma'Baker McCandless]I dont accept colloquialisms as being actual english.[quote] ahahaha sure thing i'm totally convinced of your non-dumbarseary
'thankyou, benny, for taking the time to look up the evelopedia and write a summary for me. i'm sorry for insulting your efforts and for not having thanked you sooner. additional thanks for teaching me a new phrase i hadn't heard before and was too lazy to google!' |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 15:28:20 -
[420] - Quote
I'm sure somehow this attempted semantic nightmare you have instigated will convince me that the pod-theory you mentioned isn't a big pile of guff.
I can't imagine how, so in that you must be the smart one here.
However, guff or not, it still doesn't actually happen in the game like that, so.... yeah there you go. |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4294
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 15:28:23 -
[421] - Quote
or should that be non-dumbarsery i aint not fully learned on my english |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4294
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 15:32:44 -
[422] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:I'm sure somehow this attempted semantic nightmare you have instigated what
what happened here today is that i tried to do something nice, and i still haven't been thanked
hint hint |
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 15:35:53 -
[423] - Quote
No, that hasn't made how your explanation of how cloning works any more likely or actual either. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4294
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 17:25:10 -
[424] - Quote
please continue to describe for me in specific detail the problems you've found in the fictional article you didn't read which was kindly linked for you by a certain selfless forums poster
who still hasn't been thanked for his most modest contribution
who is named me
say 'thankyou, benny', as any human being with a basic sense of decency would when done a favour |
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
181
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 17:47:25 -
[425] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote: This will give a more Complete Picture of what the users of EVE think about it, and not the the few forum fanatics opinion. what you think cant be counted as what all EVE players thinks. To me, it appears that some forumusers belive that what they mean, reflexts ALL players in EVE.
Ergo would a survey make much better argument than 20 forumusers bickering page up and page Down, each one more stubborn than the other.
And what makes you think CCP would care any more about it in that form than any other so far for the last 3 years?
i can easily see why CCP dont care about this thread, or others for that matter, when some forumusers clogging up the post With bickering, ranting and no productive answers. (and its for me a big mysterium that the ISD's hasnt locked this post many many pages unless there is something going on in the shadows)
With a vote from the majority of the active playerbase of EVE, they cant just ignore it, but they can ofcourse reject a proposal for "change". But at some point, if they keep rejecing and ignoring their playerbase voices, they will at some point end up in trouble.... (the jita incident) |
Marsha Mallow
1974
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 18:07:19 -
[426] - Quote
Quote:Clones are manufactured using biomass. Modern methods allow pretty much any kind of biomass to be used. The best clones are constructed from human cadavers, but anything from animal carcasses to organic soups can be used. Wait, WHAT?
Quote:Clone composition:
Certified human cadavers (Grade A+) [37%] Uncertified human cadavers (Grade A) [32%] Animal carcasses (Grade B) [23%] Organic materials (Grade C) [8%]
'Thankyou, benny' for selflessly linking lore articles which were clearly written by a giggling dev huffing some sort of narcotic.
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:i can easily see why CCP dont care about this thread, or others for that matter, when some forumusers clogging up the post With bickering, ranting and no productive answers. That's not true. Devs pop up on the forums all the time to point and laugh at the playerbase. They're our elite trolls. You're not exactly helping promote a serious and constructive discussion with that name btw.
I think this thread should be moved to F&I and be stickied along with the AFK cloaking and SP thread. Imagine what it'll look like in a year or two if it's left to run...
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
181
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 18:55:54 -
[427] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Quote:Clones are manufactured using biomass. Modern methods allow pretty much any kind of biomass to be used. The best clones are constructed from human cadavers, but anything from animal carcasses to organic soups can be used. Wait, WHAT? Quote:Clone composition:
Certified human cadavers (Grade A+) [37%] Uncertified human cadavers (Grade A) [32%] Animal carcasses (Grade B) [23%] Organic materials (Grade C) [8%] 'Thankyou, benny' for selflessly linking lore articles which were clearly written by a giggling dev huffing some sort of narcotic. Goatman NotMyFault wrote:i can easily see why CCP dont care about this thread, or others for that matter, when some forumusers clogging up the post With bickering, ranting and no productive answers. That's not true. Devs pop up on the forums all the time to point and laugh at the playerbase. They're our elite trolls. You're not exactly helping promote a serious and constructive discussion with that name btw. I think this thread should be moved to F&I and be stickied along with the AFK cloaking and SP thread. Imagine what it'll look like in a year or two if it's left to run...
To make my char name a point of discussion is just childish.
And i agree it should be moved to F&I even tho the OP just asked what happend to WiS, the thread has evolved into more a F&I post yes. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4295
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 18:58:09 -
[428] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:'Thankyou, benny' for selflessly linking lore articles which were clearly written by a giggling dev huffing some sort of narcotic. oh it's no big deal don't even mention it |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
986
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 03:19:36 -
[429] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:CCP should never, ever implement a feature that encourages someone not to undock. It runs counter to every other change they make to the game. Edit: Grr, spelling. Autocomplete why did you abandon me? I applaud the sentiment but I am less inclined to undock the more that time goes by. Jenn aSide wrote:When I'm playing EVE that ship ... is a TOOL, it's not 'me'. ... .... Some of us don't like being 'immersed' in a game and losing track of time or sense of self, we aren't running from real life, when we play a game (like EVE) it's a kind of mental excercise, not an 'escape'. That sounds like a very casual mentality for a non casual game.Commissar Kate wrote:If its made purely for social interaction 'immersion' then its a total waste of time when you should be socializing in space by blowing **** up anyway. . Why do I care about these other ships that are blowing up to repair them or helping ships to blow up other ships? Hint: Showing more of a "human" side to each other.Sibyyl wrote:Guess what, low hanging fruit is the most productive type of ideas to discuss for Character Creator. This is CCP's own suggestion. I don't want to tell you guys not to dream stuff up.. by all means do that.. but you are letting those get in the way of meaningful expectations in this space. Nothing stopping meaningful but a few small steps forward that make big changes would help in the short to mid-term.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1462
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 05:20:01 -
[430] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Quote:Clones are manufactured using biomass. Modern methods allow pretty much any kind of biomass to be used. The best clones are constructed from human cadavers, but anything from animal carcasses to organic soups can be used. Wait, WHAT?
Yes, I remember CCP Falcon comparing them to spam at one point during one of these threads. So the paint has been passed around liberally for years.
Marsha Mallow wrote:I think this thread should be moved to F&I and be stickied along with the AFK cloaking and SP thread. Imagine what it'll look like in a year or two if it's left to run...
There's a parallel thread in Assembly Hall.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
67
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 09:48:33 -
[431] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote: With a vote from the majority of the active playerbase of EVE, they cant just ignore it, but they can ofcourse reject a proposal for "change". But at some point, if they keep rejecing and ignoring their playerbase voices, they will at some point end up in trouble.... (the jita incident)
Yes they can. They can do as they wish.
When you say the "Jita Incident", I assume you mean the dropping of subs, and not the nonsense that happened in Jita.
As far as I remember that was about the jeans memo, not about WiS
You also assume the vote would go your way. |
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
181
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 09:59:20 -
[432] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote: With a vote from the majority of the active playerbase of EVE, they cant just ignore it, but they can ofcourse reject a proposal for "change". But at some point, if they keep rejecing and ignoring their playerbase voices, they will at some point end up in trouble.... (the jita incident)
Yes they can. They can do as they wish. When you say the "Jita Incident", I assume you mean the dropping of subs, and not the nonsense that happened in Jita. As far as I remember that was about the jeans memo, not about WiS You also assume the vote would go your way.
Im well aware of that they can do what they want, but igoring the players the players too lobg, may have a bad effect in the long run.
I dont really care how the vote goes, my point of view is more objective which i want to see a more Complete Picture of what the playerbase desires and not what the forumusers belives is the best for the playerbase to desire
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
67
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 10:04:55 -
[433] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote: Im well aware of that they can do what they want, but igoring the players the players too lobg, may have a bad effect in the long run.
I dont really care how the vote goes, my point of view is more objective which i want to see a more Complete Picture of what the playerbase desires and not what the forumusers belives is the best for the playerbase to desire
How long is too long? You seem to believe there is enough support to warrant a vote in the first place, and yet CCP have ignored that for three years.
Why don't you start polling users if you think that its a good idea? |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9919
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 13:15:00 -
[434] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:When I'm playing EVE that ship ... is a TOOL, it's not 'me'. ... .... Some of us don't like being 'immersed' in a game and losing track of time or sense of self, we aren't running from real life, when we play a game (like EVE) it's a kind of mental excercise, not an 'escape'. That sounds like a very casual mentality for a non casual game.
What does 'casual' or hardcore have to do with what i said? (rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer is 'nothing'). Being an 'immersion' player or a 'mental challenge' player is separate from how much or how seriously you play. |
Alexei Stryker
Steiners Erben
50
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 21:44:22 -
[435] - Quote
This is walking in station |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1465
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 21:59:34 -
[436] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You know, I was going to make a lengthy post, posing the question as to why this pathetic, glorified tech demo has enraptured a minority of diehards who want it at all costs, including the potential death of it's parent game... The answer is pretty easy actually.
Indeed: Unlike with any of the games you've mentioned, CCP has promised this for EVE more or less from the get-go, and they continue to hint at it ("A Future Vision," "The Prophecy"). There have been two internal projects to deliver it, although both were during the bad old days when CCP had no development discipline, and when they suffered from a greatly exaggerated sense of their own invincibility.
They even tasked a team to develop a new kind of avatar gameplay (exploration in abandoned stations) and pronounced the resulting experiment a success.
It's not a priority now, for entirely understandable reasons. It may not ship in the current EVE client, also for understandable reasons. But EVE is not X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. It's not Elite: Dangerous, either. Avatar gameplay in EVE has been promised for years. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there are players who'd like a delivery on that promise.
Nothing's impossible, right? I mean, they're refurbishing their game engine *and* looking into replacements for POSes *and* fixing sov. The "War on the Impossible" is over, and the work on updating the game is progressing nicely.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9982
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 23:46:21 -
[437] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You know, I was going to make a lengthy post, posing the question as to why this pathetic, glorified tech demo has enraptured a minority of diehards who want it at all costs, including the potential death of it's parent game... The answer is pretty easy actually. Indeed: Unlike with any of the games you've mentioned, CCP has promised this for EVE more or less from the get-go, and they continue to hint at it ("A Future Vision," "The Prophecy"). There have been two internal projects to deliver it, although both were during the bad old days when CCP had no development discipline, and when they suffered from a greatly exaggerated sense of their own invincibility. They even tasked a team to develop a new kind of avatar gameplay (exploration in abandoned stations) and pronounced the resulting experiment a success. It's not a priority now, for entirely understandable reasons. It may not ship in the current EVE client, also for understandable reasons. But EVE is not X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. It's not Elite: Dangerous, either. Avatar gameplay in EVE has been promised for years. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there are players who'd like a delivery on that promise. Nothing's impossible, right? I mean, they're refurbishing their game engine *and* looking into replacements for POSes *and* fixing sov. The "War on the Impossible" is over, and the work on updating the game is progressing nicely.
How do you have time to post, shouldn't you be enjoying that ocean front property you bought in Nebraska. I mean the guy you spoke to over the phone with the middle eastern accent who said his name is "Jeff" promised it, so it's got to be there right?
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
996
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 03:50:33 -
[438] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:When I'm playing EVE that ship ... is a TOOL, it's not 'me'. ... .... Some of us don't like being 'immersed' in a game and losing track of time or sense of self, we aren't running from real life, when we play a game (like EVE) it's a kind of mental excercise, not an 'escape'. That sounds like a very casual mentality for a non casual game. What does 'casual' or hardcore have to do with what i said? (rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer is 'nothing'). Being an 'immersion' player or a 'mental challenge' player is separate from how much or how seriously you play. ... and so you make my point. Whether they have WiS mentality or not doesn't mean you need to come and trample over them.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11943
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 04:08:05 -
[439] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Whether they have WiS mentality or not doesn't mean you need to come and trample over them.
It definitely does, actually. Trying to restart a program that just about killed the game and left CCP with a half decade technical debt they will never repay is absolutely unconscionable.
But since Space Barbie cultists never seem to be stamped out entirely, eternal vigilance against this sedition must be exercised.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
750
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 04:12:44 -
[440] - Quote
I'm sure they'll get back to this non-feature after they:
Break SOV Fix SOV Nerf Ishtar Remove drone assist Buff Ishtar to make up for the drone assist removal Nerf Titans again Rebalance T3 cruisers Add T3 everything else to make up for nerfed T3 cruisers Remove bombs Add mines back in to make up for lost bombs New snowball launcher effects More types of fireworks 14 more wacky deployables Invent a laser that can write "Buy EvE Online" on the moon
...and player made stargates that go to Jove space
See you in 2020 |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9986
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 04:40:19 -
[441] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:When I'm playing EVE that ship ... is a TOOL, it's not 'me'. ... .... Some of us don't like being 'immersed' in a game and losing track of time or sense of self, we aren't running from real life, when we play a game (like EVE) it's a kind of mental excercise, not an 'escape'. That sounds like a very casual mentality for a non casual game. What does 'casual' or hardcore have to do with what i said? (rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer is 'nothing'). Being an 'immersion' player or a 'mental challenge' player is separate from how much or how seriously you play. ... and so you make my point. Whether they have WiS mentality or not doesn't mean you need to come and trample over them.
Telling the truth and speaking about the reality of the situation isn't trampling over anyone. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11943
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 05:00:23 -
[442] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Telling the truth and speaking about the reality of the situation isn't trampling over anyone.
Except for the people who want to believe a lie.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4295
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 09:21:03 -
[443] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Telling the truth and speaking about the reality of the situation isn't trampling over anyone. maybe if you were a particularly clumsy elephant with poor social skills trying to communicate using sign language to a crowd of a thousand inside a broom closet during an earthquake |
Varathius
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
158
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 10:32:47 -
[444] - Quote
Man, would have been nice to breach into someone else's quarter and throw him/her down into the abyss:
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7066
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 11:18:23 -
[445] - Quote
I fell through the hangar while in Captain's Quarters.
Just remember, whenever you see a Carrier die to a Drifter... well....
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Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
277
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 14:13:09 -
[446] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:Unless you can shoot people in the face, make ISK, lose ISK and possibly effect flying in space stuff, I don't really see much of a point in WiS. And even then it's still kinda iffy.
If its made purely for social interaction 'immersion' then its a total waste of time when you should be socializing in space by blowing **** up anyway. Anything that slows you down for fitting ships, moving items around in your hangar, missions and market would be terrible.
I'm about ready to say the best thing to do is to just remove all traces of portraits and avatars in Eve so we never have to deal with this stuff ever again. Would be good for the new players too, they wont get the impression that there might be avatar play. While Commissar Kate here might be trolling here, the funny part is, that is exactly the course CCP has consciously taken. Except that the character portraits won't go away - they are still a minor source of vanity microtransactions from the few hapless barbie cultistsGäó who have to be milked before they are driven away from the game.
There is a certain core player base that CCP aims to satisfy, and that core thinks like this:
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You know, I was going to make a lengthy post, posing the question as to why this pathetic, glorified tech demo has enraptured a minority of diehards who want it at all costs, including the potential death of it's parent game... The answer is pretty easy actually. The kinds of people enraptured by that the demo aren't exclusive to EVE, they are all over the place (in games and out. Whether it's the "I want infantry" crowd in Tanks, "I want Elementals, Aerospace Fighters, Tanks and Drop ships" in every MechWarrior game since the original, or "I want avatars with light sabers in this game, I don't care ifthe name is 'X-wing vs Tie Fighter!!'", they are always the same. They are the 'immersion' crowd and they want to 'live' their video games. They also tend to be adamant that this thing MUST happen in 'their' game so it did not (nd does not) matter that alternative exist. It doesn't matter to the infantry crowd that they can play Battlefield or CoD if they want combined arms.. It did not matter to the players of MechWarrior 3 and MechWarrior 4 that Starsiege (that at least had Tanks as well as mecha) existed, and to the WiS crowd, Star Trek Online and SWTOR might as well be rumors. No, THIS game must comply as well. Contrast them with people like me who prefer those kinds of 'minimalist' games of just spaceships (and spreadsheets)or just tanks or just mechs or just X-wings and Tie fighters. We'll never see eye to eye because our fundamental gaming wants and needs are different. EVE as it is is enough for me. Since it's a facet of a specific kind of unrealistically optimistic personality, it's not something that argument or reason can address. CCP could do an Incarna II that actually killed are seriously wounded the game and the WiS crowd would cling to "they didn't do it right" rather than admit "ok, it was a mistake to try to tack this kind of thing onto an old game". Quote: And then I realized that Chris Roberts has made a fortune scamming exactly that kind of person.
Best of luck to all of you.
Many businesses do that. Alcohol , tobacco, fast food etc etc are all directly targeted at the must susceptible, and most gullible. Beyond that, companies and real life scammers make fortunes preying on the elderly who start to lose their sense of caution as they age. Game companies (intentionally or unintentionally) design games to cater to the most unrealistic expectations of players, this is why Chris Roberts is rolling in the doe for something that hasn't been produced yet. This is also why an Icelandic game maker could promise a 'living breathing sci-fi universe' 12 years ago and yet only deliver on 'spaceships and spreadsheets' but still be making money off the backs of....optimistic...people who believe "WiS is right around the corner" LOL.
Period.
The line here, like in many other places (and games since Ultima Online) is not pro-Wis and anti-WiS.
It's pro-immersion and anti-immersion.
And CCP has long ago made the choice.
So please stop with the WiS threads already. Leave the undead horse alone to graze on the astral fields of Equestria. Don't you all have more important things to do, like comparing spreadsheets, padding killboards and hyperdunking for tears? By not undocking, you are depriving people of content!
Good luck, CCP.
Hehe |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
998
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 15:04:48 -
[447] - Quote
They had a video like this, where some guy is ordering a strike on a planet with Dust players and then he gets assassinated by someone in his quarters.
It could be another betrayal mechanic. I support this.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23520
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 15:13:30 -
[448] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote: The line here, like in many other places (and games since Ultima Online) is not pro-Wis and anti-WiS.
It's pro-immersion and anti-immersion.
I had described a bit earlier why WIS would be detrimental for my own personal immersion.
I get very deep in concentration when I'm flying around in a hostile situation, or if I'm doing a roam and someone is teaching me how to fight. Maybe it is the wrong definition, but I find myself with total tunnel vision during those times and hyperaware of what is happening around my ship. I am.. immersed.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Tyanshe
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 15:32:53 -
[449] - Quote
Vote for CSM candidates that support WiS. Too bad most of the well known candidates are firmly against. |
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
398313
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 15:44:33 -
[450] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:Commissar Kate wrote:Unless you can shoot people in the face, make ISK, lose ISK and possibly effect flying in space stuff, I don't really see much of a point in WiS. And even then it's still kinda iffy.
If its made purely for social interaction 'immersion' then its a total waste of time when you should be socializing in space by blowing **** up anyway. Anything that slows you down for fitting ships, moving items around in your hangar, missions and market would be terrible.
I'm about ready to say the best thing to do is to just remove all traces of portraits and avatars in Eve so we never have to deal with this stuff ever again. Would be good for the new players too, they wont get the impression that there might be avatar play. While Commissar Kate here might be trolling here, the funny part is, that is exactly the course CCP has consciously taken. Except that the character portraits won't go away - they are still a minor source of vanity microtransactions from the few hapless barbie cultistsGäó who have to be milked before they are driven away from the game.
Was not trolling here.
I was gonna say something else about the subject but **** it, its not worth it.
Unlock all the clothes || My Fanclub
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23523
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 15:47:19 -
[451] - Quote
Tyanshe wrote:Vote for CSM candidates that support WiS. Too bad most of the well known candidates are firmly against.
If this is your particular interest, Mike and corbexx have been active in related spaces.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
|
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
22745
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 15:50:58 -
[452] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:I was gonna say something else about the subject but **** it, its not worth it. Pretty much this lol
**** this thread and a good 50% of the people posting here.
If you're like me and take the topic seriously you'll be here fighting off trolls and simple fuckwits all day long.
Not worth it. Especially when I'm already very happy with the way I see avatar development gently heading in EVE.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
corbexx for CSM X
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1471
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 18:18:45 -
[453] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:How do you have time to post, shouldn't you be enjoying that ocean front property you bought in Nebraska. I mean the guy you spoke to over the phone with the middle eastern accent who said his name is "Jeff" promised it, so it's got to be there right?
Well, you have time to respond despite frantically moving your goal posts around in your buggy whip factory, so clearly where there's a will there's a way.
At any rate, whether it works depends more on execution than on concept, so we'll see what comes when.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7830
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 18:34:52 -
[454] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: I have no top on.
Great. Now all I can think about is your inviting nakedness. How am I supposed to function as a forum warrior with that image pushing all rational thoughts out of my head?
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23525
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 19:17:03 -
[455] - Quote
That is not even an actual quote, gosh.
-_-'
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4296
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 19:46:06 -
[456] - Quote
/emote awkward_fake_laugh |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7830
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 20:06:34 -
[457] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: That is not even an actual quote, gosh.
-_-'
I know, right?
But it's what I saw. It's crazy what you do to my libidinous little mind.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Alexei Stryker
Steiners Erben
54
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 13:59:09 -
[458] - Quote
Walking in station... Required for strip clubs in stations!
+100000000
Walking in station
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ACESsiggy
University of Caille
33
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 23:33:08 -
[459] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[quote] And then I realized that Chris Roberts has made a fortune scamming exactly that kind of person.
Best of luck to all of you.
Many businesses do that. Alcohol , tobacco, fast food etc etc are all directly targeted at the must susceptible, and most gullible. Beyond that, companies and real life scammers make fortunes preying on the elderly who start to lose their sense of caution as they age. Game companies (intentionally or unintentionally) design games to cater to the most unrealistic expectations of players, this is why Chris Roberts is rolling in the doe for something that hasn't been produced yet. This is also why an Icelandic game maker could promise a 'living breathing sci-fi universe' 12 years ago and yet only deliver on 'spaceships and spreadsheets' but still be making money off the backs of....optimistic...people who believe "WiS is right around the corner" LOL.
Best laugh thus far. Especially the part of the most susceptible and gullible.
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
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jurgen b
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 18:37:03 -
[460] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Candi LeMew wrote: Afterall, why bother with ship skins, or 3D space at all for that matter when we could just use dots on the screen and "imagine" the rest. Because at the end of the day we all want the experience to be as real or tangible as possible, and that's part of immersion for me.
Funny, I was making a similar point in another thread; I was against buying characters as it dissolves RP, but then conversely I was also under the impression that not only was there almost none of this happenign anyway, but that the vast majority of players didnt even want it. I was always under the impression it was a MMORPG. Ive been informed by several people that it is not. I hope they are not correct. Im actually part of a RP lite corp, i do enjoy the rp side of things which is a whole new other game (soo much reading) but i dont know how the walking in stations would really benefit the roleplay side of things or even benefit the game, i keep asking what would be inside the stations apart from microtransactions (as much as the other topic said i actually dont like microtransactions whatsoever i think ruin a game if there is too much thrown in your face), walking in stations would have to be a more fast paced gameplay as people may get bored and get the wrong impression about the game
WIS, should involve possible to kill other players in the station with space guns, ofcourse in high sec with concord police guy's killing you afterwards since they walk around in the station as well, and a other player can loot the corpses afterwards ( loot wallet) and blink yellow in the station so free to get shot as well. even suicide gankers should be able to bind SB's on there head running in the station and explode themself :) ofcourse when you die not in a ship nor pod your clone dies insta means insta implants lost inc when shot by concord if it is inside the station. you even should be possible killed by a spai you invite in CQ as well and be looted and your assets get stolen then because he is in your CQ and has acces to it because you let him in gave him a free pass to enter mechanic. and when that is finnished we go to ***. i can imagine the pile of clone corps will be found in a station and so on |
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Syrilian
Astartes' Guardians
37
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 19:45:11 -
[461] - Quote
I dont necessarily need WiS, but it would be cool to have some station activities, like gambling and small things like that. |
Valkin Mordirc
676
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 19:58:15 -
[462] - Quote
WiS isn't anything needed in EVE, Imo.
WiS Keeps people docked. If you give them mini-games that let them earn isk, it mean less time outside.
Keeping people docked, removes risk. Removing one of the core elements in EVE. Even if I could kill someone in station, what's the point? They respawn, no SP loss, no nothing? Oh boy,
Working on WiS Takes time away from actual time that would be beneficial, like reworking Sov, T3 reworking, and add more content that fits in the EvE universe.
EVE is a game about Spaceships, not a gambling hall, not a dance animations, not 'virtual bars'.
I would rather be given a new ship type, then opening the door past the CQ, for these reasons.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Serina Cache
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 21:40:46 -
[463] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:WiS isn't anything needed in EVE, Imo.
WiS Keeps people docked. If you give them mini-games that let them earn isk, it mean less time outside.
Keeping people docked, removes risk. Removing one of the core elements in EVE. Even if I could kill someone in station, what's the point? They respawn, no SP loss, no nothing? Oh boy,
Working on WiS Takes time away from actual time that would be beneficial, like reworking Sov, T3 reworking, and add more content that fits in the EvE universe.
EVE is a game about Spaceships, not a gambling hall, not a dance animations, not 'virtual bars'.
I would rather be given a new ship type, then opening the door past the CQ, for these reasons.
A lot of people never undock as it is. I bet half the people in Jita have never left the station. Eve is not a game about spaceships according to CCP. It's an economic simulator that features ships prominently. There are a lot of reasons to not want WIS, but yours are just born from ignorance and small minded thinking. Take a deep breath, turn on your brain, and try again. Or just keep being the sheeple cheerleader that you are posting like. Whatever.
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1475
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 21:44:56 -
[464] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: Keeping people docked, removes risk.
Currently, yes, it does, because the only station gameplay is trading.
The whole point of avatar gameplay is to increase the amount of gameplay in stations. Why is it so hard to imagine that avatar gameplay in a sandbox MMO would resemble... gameplay in a sandbox MMO?
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Valkin Mordirc
677
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 22:03:13 -
[465] - Quote
Quote:A lot of people never undock as it is. I bet half the people in Jita have never left the station. Eve is not a game about spaceships according to CCP. It's an economic simulator that features ships prominently. There are a lot of reasons to not want WIS, but yours are just born from ignorance and small minded thinking. Take a deep breath, turn on your brain, and try again. Or just keep being the sheeple cheerleader that you are posting like. Whatever.
Just because my opinions don't fall in line with yours doesn't mean I'm the Sheeple Cheerleader, My opinions are from me, and not influenced by anyone else. Sorry to disappoint you in that regard, I am a functioning person with full capabilities.
People are not Sheeple just because they agree with each other. If you think that, you are idiot.
And ignorance? In what? A PvP based Sandbox? What does it a, PvP Sandbox, need when it comes to WiS? Like really, what does Minigames which is majority of thing requested for WiS belong in it?
Your Arrogance is laughable.
Also posting with an alt does nothing but ruin your own reputation for giving a considerable post. Most would just figure you for a troll. Which obviously you probably are.
Also please, EvE is a competitive PvP game. The Free-Market is merely a awesome thing that was apart of the game as a whole. If it was just a Economic Sim. Spaceships wouldn't be needed. It could be MLP Online and still be a Economic sim
To Dersen.
If People can come up with something that makes Avatar based gameplay in station meaningfull to the EVE sandbox, I would support it. But the only thing I see people asking for, either ways to make isk while staying docked. Or silly "Second-Life" crap. Something that I personally would not want in EVE.
If something could be suggested to change WiS into something better then a "Walk around and be social" idea, I would be for it. Until then.
O7 to it
#DeleteTheWeak
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1034
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 22:23:50 -
[466] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are three simple reasons allow us to invite each other into our Captain's Quarters: 1) Role-Players 2) Weirdos that don't find rubbing ships together good enough. 3) $$$ - think people want to buy clothes to show to no one? ( I bet trousers and shoes are flying off the shelves! ) Actually, CCP can you comment out the code that stops us taking our shoes and pants off?
Then all the people who find WiS silly can take them off, have great profile pictures and show how useless the rest is as it stands, now.
This should make for an interesting graph and a fair bit of publicity, "CCP asks EVE players to vote by taking their pants off"
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23607
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 22:37:05 -
[467] - Quote
Portraits and WIS are not the same. Portraits are under active development and CCP is "happy" with the side income the accessories provide. WIS development was halted, CCP has no compelling ideas that would justify resources to be assigned, and the company has no plans to develop it.
Don't mix the two. They are very different.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Marsha Mallow
1987
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 22:47:19 -
[468] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Then all the people who find WiS silly can take them off, have great profile pictures and show how useless the rest is as it stands, now. Funnily enough if they allowed older players to discard the new avatars and use the pre-Incarna alts, I reckon there would be a stampede.
Possibly to signal a rejection of Incarna, but more likely out of nostalgia for their old pic. We loved our old backgrounds and hats. Chribba just doesn't look the same anymore. If he pops up and shouts "HELLO" in response to that, don't blame me.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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The Golden Serpent
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 23:15:27 -
[469] - Quote
I can tell things got weird in this game in the past.
I like the captain's quarters it's pretty cool, but yeah it would be nice if you could walk around with everyone else inside of just the captain's quarters.
My PC wouldn't break a sweat.
Isn't CCP based in Iceland? Must be hard to get talent there in large numbers or to get people to move there. Blizzard in located in Cali for a reason yknow. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3822
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 23:23:05 -
[470] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: Portraits and WIS are not the same. Portraits are under active development and CCP is "happy" with the side income the accessories provide. WIS development was halted, CCP has no compelling ideas that would justify resources to be assigned, and the company has no plans to develop it.
Don't mix the two. They are very different.
Both are avatar content. Maybe you're happy with a logotype, but we didn't needed any legs to walk into this situation...
We didn't needed to have permanently high-heeled feet. Didn't needed to be everybody of the same height (well, there's two heights: male height and female height).
I wonder until when we, not CCP, but WE, will bear with the schizoid situation of buying shoes nobody can see because a piece of code was not finished four years ago. Or seeing how CCP invites us to cosplay at Fanfest but keeps our avatars alone in our CQs.
I smirk at thinking that, thanks to CCP, the only place we can see other player's "Outlaw" boots is in RL. If *that* is not the definition of nonsense...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Marsha Mallow
1988
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 23:32:09 -
[471] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:We didn't needed to have permanently high-heeled feet. Didn't needed to be everybody of the same height (well, there's two heights: male height and female height).
I smirk at thinking that, thanks to CCP, the only place we can see other player's "Outlaw" boots is in RL. If *that* is not the definition of nonsense... I tried Second Life in the months leading upto Incarna to check their player made economy (the Linden side looked interesting). Funnily enough the only female characters I spoke to told me off because I'd rez'd the shoes wrong and my heels were sticking out. Then they went on a massive lecture on how to fix this. Luckily I'd bought a sword by then (and a waggle sword emote) before they invited me to an orgy. Only had to chase them about for a bit until they ran off. They still mailed me later to join a cyber orgy. Me and my mum watched and howled in the most undignified way.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23610
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 23:33:56 -
[472] - Quote
The primary reason why I match my shoes to my dress is for my own sanity. If someone else looks at them, then fine.. but it is not the reason for me. I choose the same thing for Barbies I've had or for Sibs in the game. Somewhere in the back of my head I know that this behavior must be some sort of evolutionary social imperative.. is it?
Then again I have a fondness for yellow, which might not be socially acceptable at all, but I don't consider that to be discouraging at all.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3188
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 00:09:03 -
[473] - Quote
One odd thing is CCP has not removed what little we have of WiS. We know they are willing to remove parts of the game that see little use. A recent example is industry teams.
So why do we still have any form of Incarna, unless it is, at some level, doing something for the game? Every patch CCP has to do regression tests on CQ, just to make sure something did not get broken. That's extra work they could avoid if they just dropped the entire thing. It must be relevant in some way. If it is doing something for the game, would completing the feature do more for the game?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Minas' Morgul
Puppet Industries
8
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 00:17:44 -
[474] - Quote
I know I'm always hanging out in the quaters when I'm not in space. I'd like the opportuity to mingle with players on a station, it would cool to be in a bar while having the station services up so I can interact and work at the same time. But, thats just me. I thought think it would hurt much to add on to whats alredy there |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7837
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 00:28:23 -
[475] - Quote
Minas' Morgul wrote:I know I'm always hanging out in the quaters when I'm not in space. I'd like the opportuity to mingle with players on a station, it would cool to be in a bar while having the station services up so I can interact and work at the same time. But, thats just me. I thought think it would hurt much to add on to whats alredy there
Thing is, CCP would have to lease an engine that actually allowed more then one character on the screen without melting your graphics card. Meaning scrapping what they've done to date and starting over.
While I'm fine with that since I'm not going anywhere in the near future and I still have secret dreams of teabagging some fool in a player run bar, most FISers would have a total meltdown over it. Ships or nothing, right guys? Though reading the front page today (or any day, for that matter) all I'm seeing is whining over ships. So I guess since y'all are going to cry anyway, CCP might just as well finish what they started and give us a fully interactive Science Fiction simulator.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
14054
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 06:59:49 -
[476] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Then all the people who find WiS silly can take them off, have great profile pictures and show how useless the rest is as it stands, now. Funnily enough if they allowed older players to discard the new avatars and use the pre-Incarna alts, I reckon there would be a stampede. Possibly to signal a rejection of Incarna, but more likely out of nostalgia for their old pic. We loved our old backgrounds and hats. Chribba just doesn't look the same anymore. If he pops up and shouts "HELLO" in response to that, don't blame me. Hello.
I totally would walk around with my old avatar if I could - even if I was a 2D face.
/c
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3826
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 07:51:52 -
[477] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:One odd thing is CCP has not removed what little we have of WiS. We know they are willing to remove parts of the game that see little use. A recent example is industry teams.
So why do we still have any form of Incarna, unless it is, at some level, doing something for the game? Every patch CCP has to do regression tests on CQ, just to make sure something did not get broken. That's extra work they could avoid if they just dropped the entire thing. It must be relevant in some way. If it is doing something for the game, would completing the feature do more for the game?
Well, I would be shocked if we still had the CQ next year. Once CCP finishes the new NPE, the CQ will be just a useless piece of legacy code.
CCP says "no to avatars". And tha'ts what they've been doing. Some time ago, they started spawning new players randomly at the CQ an the hangar, to check -literally- whether the CQ had an effect on player retention. Back then I figured they were considering to remove the CQ, and now that the NPE starts again in space, and it's been improved with the opportunities system, the CQ has already run its course.
Maybe CCP feels a bit uneasy about removing it and fear some kind of backlash, but the fact is that CCP shall not fear such backlash. By neglecting avatars, they've reached their purpose of removing most WiS players (another of my prediction). Without avatar content, avatar lovers are mostly gone and only a few nuts still want them, and most of us are pre-Incarna players. Post-Incarna players never experienced the WiS fiasco and to them the avatars are, literally, the CQ and the character creator. They're in it for the pew pew spaceships, and that's what matters to CCP.
Sidetrack is that the pew pew spacships crowd is dwindling and there's not enough new players born each year to cope with the burnout of the niche, but CCP likely are in a better position to expand the game with more spaceships content, than with avatar content. Or just expand their business leaving EVE behind and trying their luck with new games.
So, weather forecast for avatars is: expect to see the CQ gone, more microtransactions for your portraits and maybe some way to show up your FBA (Full Body Avatar) by other means than the client preview.
WiS, as has been said, is dead. IMHO CCP killed the future of EVE along with it, but, who am I? I stay subscribed hoping that some day CCP would do for hisec and PvE what they're doing for nullsec and Sov. Most of what I do in EVE is forum stuff. And as long as my bitterness stays at acceptable levels, I will keep playing EVE.
Aside of that, CCP can pretty much burn in hell.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4298
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 08:17:51 -
[478] - Quote
Serina Cache wrote:Eve is not a game about spaceships according to CCP. if this is true, ccp is wrong
Quote:Then again I have a fondness for yellow, which might not be socially acceptable at all saw someone ejected from the pub for the colour of their socks |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4298
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 08:21:57 -
[479] - Quote
they spent the next ten minutes trying to convince the bouncer the socks were actually light goldenrod. as if anyone was going to believe that |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10033
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 13:39:04 -
[480] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:One odd thing is CCP has not removed what little we have of WiS. We know they are willing to remove parts of the game that see little use. A recent example is industry teams.
So why do we still have any form of Incarna, unless it is, at some level, doing something for the game? Every patch CCP has to do regression tests on CQ, just to make sure something did not get broken. That's extra work they could avoid if they just dropped the entire thing. It must be relevant in some way. If it is doing something for the game, would completing the feature do more for the game? Well, I would be shocked if we still had the CQ next year. Once CCP finishes the new NPE, the CQ will be just a useless piece of legacy code. CCP says "no to avatars". And tha'ts what they've been doing. Some time ago, they started spawning new players randomly at the CQ an the hangar, to check -literally- whether the CQ had an effect on player retention. Back then I figured they were considering to remove the CQ, and now that the NPE starts again in space, and it's been improved with the opportunities system, the CQ has already run its course. Maybe CCP feels a bit uneasy about removing it and fear some kind of backlash, but the fact is that CCP shall not fear such backlash. By neglecting avatars, they've reached their purpose of removing most WiS players (another of my prediction). Without avatar content, avatar lovers are mostly gone and only a few nuts still want them, and most of us are pre-Incarna players. Post-Incarna players never experienced the WiS fiasco and to them the avatars are, literally, the CQ and the character creator. They're in it for the pew pew spaceships, and that's what matters to CCP. Sidetrack is that the pew pew spacships crowd is dwindling and there's not enough new players born each year to cope with the burnout of the niche, but CCP likely are in a better position to expand the game with more spaceships content, than with avatar content. Or just expand their business leaving EVE behind and trying their luck with new games. So, weather forecast for avatars is: expect to see the CQ gone, more microtransactions for your portraits and maybe some way to show up your FBA (Full Body Avatar) by other means than the client preview. WiS, as has been said, is dead. IMHO CCP killed the future of EVE along with it, but, who am I? I stay subscribed hoping that some day CCP would do for hisec and PvE what they're doing for nullsec and Sov. Most of what I do in EVE is forum stuff. And as long as my bitterness stays at acceptable levels, I will keep playing EVE. Aside of that, CCP can pretty much burn in hell.
In one nonsensical sentence (where you would condemn to 'hell' the actual human beings of CCP because they didn't deliver the space barbie only a few fringe types wanted), you summed up the entire reason I dislike the "WiS community" and thus WiS itself. WiS would attract MORE HATEFUL/ENTITLED PEOPLE LIKE THIS, no WiS in the foreseeable future is a pure blessing.
The last piece of Irony is the fact that if CCP ticks you off to the point where they need to burn in hell, why are you still paying them in some form (either cash or plex). and you ARE paying them, as evidenced by your posting privileges You are actually paying people you don't like to make a game you are disappointed with.. WTF is wrong with you? |
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
759
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 13:59:49 -
[481] - Quote
CCP never did abandon the walking avatar stuff. What could have been used with Incarna is called DUST (or whatever vaporware they are peddling these days). Valkyrie could have been the planetary flight part to get down to the planets minus the headset that requires Dramamine to use. All of it could have been tied to something useful like PI or implants.
But that is the new CCP for ya. Follow the trends, milk every penny and half-ass all of it. |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
768
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 13:59:49 -
[482] - Quote
CCP never did abandon the walking avatar stuff. What could have been used with Incarna is called DUST (or whatever vaporware they are peddling these days). Valkyrie could have been the planetary flight part to get down to the planets minus the headset that requires Dramamine to use. All of it could have been tied to something useful like PI or implants.
But that is the new CCP for ya. Follow the trends, milk every penny and half-ass all of it. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3190
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 14:36:31 -
[483] - Quote
I was just on the latest sisi build. For some reason the fps in CQ is way up. I wonder why they would improve the performance of avatars and CQ.....
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Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
282
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 14:44:14 -
[484] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:But that is the new CCP for ya. Follow the trends, milk every penny and half-ass all of it. More like "Try to follow the trends and milk some cash, fail miserably, scrap everything "
As opposed to the old CCP who simply deleted your boot.ini. |
Noriko Mai
2088
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 14:47:47 -
[485] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I was just on the latest sisi build. For some reason the fps in CQ is way up. I wonder why they would improve the performance of avatars and CQ..... FPS are much better everywhere in the game. And the seem to have fixed the frame stuttering.
EDIT: And there's a new FPS monitor... or let's better say it was tweaked
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iforumizer Hamabu
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 20:52:03 -
[486] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I was just on the latest sisi build. For some reason the fps in CQ is way up. I wonder why they would improve the performance of avatars and CQ.....
The new download-on-demand client may or may not be another hint. I guess we'll have to wait until fanfest. |
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
398630
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 21:01:44 -
[487] - Quote
iforumizer Hamabu wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:I was just on the latest sisi build. For some reason the fps in CQ is way up. I wonder why they would improve the performance of avatars and CQ..... The new download-on-demand client may or may not be another hint. I guess we'll have to wait until fanfest.
Please deposit your hopes and dreams for WiS in the box.
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1484
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 21:31:19 -
[488] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I was just on the latest sisi build. For some reason the fps in CQ is way up. I wonder why they would improve the performance of avatars and CQ.....
Well, they do have a whole team working on the engine. It wouldn't shock me to discover that they're making progress.
"Valkin Mordirc" wrote:If something could be suggested to change WiS into something better then a "Walk around and be social" idea, I would be for it. Until then.
They have a suggestion, which was approved by the top dogs at CCP: exploration of derelict stations, which aren't instanced, so you can have multiple teams exploring, and PVP between the teams. They're just not committing a team to it yet because they have a whole lot of technical debt to retire first, and some upgrades to the underlying engine that they need to implement.
That said, I am continually amazed at the hostility to social functions in a fundamentally social game. EVE could do much, much more than it currently does to allow people to interact, and I'm not at all just talking about avatars.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe
398634
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 22:54:20 -
[489] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I was just on the latest sisi build. For some reason the fps in CQ is way up. I wonder why they would improve the performance of avatars and CQ.....
It's still the same FPS for me.
Unlock all the clothes || My Fanclub
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1043
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 23:54:33 -
[490] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:CCP never did abandon the walking avatar stuff. What could have been used with Incarna is called DUST .... Just imagine you see Dust players smashing on the door of your quarters, so you run into your hanger bay and hop in a ship. As they come through looking for you, you send a missile into the quarters, blow them away and pay silly little fee for replacing the room.
Think of it if they put the economy in our favour, where we send the Dust players down to planets in our systems to herd and shoot the worms so that our spice will flow better? (Say 100 ISK for a whole lot of shooting and to them that is tons of ammo and a helmet or something)
Imagine Dust players being part of SOV? A carrier of them landing outside, them boarding our station, our own troops jump cloning over to fight them.
There are so many ways that we could have a living breathing, fully integrated Dust + EVE.
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Asura Vajrarupa
Sanguis Inceptum
33
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 01:51:34 -
[491] - Quote
Honestly, I would be fine with Incarna as it is if I could pick a home station and then decorate the room with trophies or corpses or something. As it is now it is a hotel room, and doesn't even serve that function; truly it serves in its present state no purpose.
Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1044
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 02:55:57 -
[492] - Quote
Asura Vajrarupa wrote:...truly it serves in its present state no purpose. Interesting corp name. "Blood's beginning"?
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Whittorical Quandary
The Asteroid is Depleted
20
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Posted - 2015.03.05 04:00:24 -
[493] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote: That said, I am continually amazed at the hostility to social functions in a fundamentally social game. EVE could do much, much more than it currently does to allow people to interact, and I'm not at all just talking about avatars.
It's a social hostility based game.
Any gameplay or WiS that does not allow you to put on a gun and shoot the person next to you because they talked about how bad your mom playes eve, is bound to fail.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Flamespar
WarRavens
1299
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 06:55:07 -
[494] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. CCP's now significantly reduced (from 2011 levels) resources are now wholly focused on what they know for sure works at bring in money in because they're unable to do anything else. Not saying CCP is dying, but they're certainly walking a tightrope, and every erg of dev resource they can muster is fully committed for a minum of 2 years.
It's a shame, but that's the evident truth. Making puppy eyes and saying in your cutest voice oh pwwwwease won't change that. Holding your breath. Won't change that. Throwing a tantrum won't change that.
There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point.
Except they're not "wholly focused on what they know for sure works", they have one other game (dust) and two other games in development (Legion and Valkarie)
WiS will never happen in EVE because of CCP. CCP fooled us all into thinking they were this great innovative company with grand dreams for the ultimate space simulator, encouraged us to give them money to help them get there, and then failed to deliver.
They failed with EVE/WiS, they failed with Dust, they failed with WoD.
CCP have exactly one success, and it's EVE, and it's despite their many many mistakes and false promises.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3826
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 07:50:34 -
[495] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. CCP's now significantly reduced (from 2011 levels) resources are now wholly focused on what they know for sure works at bring in money in because they're unable to do anything else. Not saying CCP is dying, but they're certainly walking a tightrope, and every erg of dev resource they can muster is fully committed for a minum of 2 years.
It's a shame, but that's the evident truth. Making puppy eyes and saying in your cutest voice oh pwwwwease won't change that. Holding your breath. Won't change that. Throwing a tantrum won't change that.
There comes a point where persistent optimism in the face of obstacles becomes blind stupidity in the face of obvious facts. The WiSwhine threads have long since past that point. Except they're not "wholly focused on what they know for sure works", they have one other game (dust) and two other games in development (Legion and Valkarie) WiS will never happen in EVE because of CCP. CCP fooled us all into thinking they were this great innovative company with grand dreams for the ultimate space simulator, encouraged us to give them money to help them get there, and then failed to deliver. They failed with EVE/WiS, they failed with Dust, they failed with WoD. CCP have exactly one success, and it's EVE, and it's despite their many many mistakes and false promises.
Shall we remember at this point, that the company has never been owned nor run by professional videogame developers...
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8052
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 08:06:11 -
[496] - Quote
"Professional Videogame Developers"
What a term.
Just remember, whenever you see a Carrier die to a Drifter... well....
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
311
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 14:01:32 -
[497] - Quote
Considering the list of mega funded failures out of some of the biggest game houses in the world. CCP is not doing to bad. In fact with EVE is doing bloody well.
Death and Glory!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3828
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 14:49:22 -
[498] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:"Professional Videogame Developers"
What a term.
Free tip: developing videogames is a profession.
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8090
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 14:56:46 -
[499] - Quote
Blanking this.
No point in arguing trivial matters. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1048
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 15:11:07 -
[500] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:WiS will never happen in EVE because of CCP. CCP fooled us all into thinking they were this great innovative company with grand dreams for the ultimate space simulator, encouraged us to give them money to help them get there, and then failed to deliver. They failed with EVE/WiS, they failed with Dust, they failed with WoD.CCP have exactly one success, and it's EVE, and it's despite their many many mistakes and false promises. Sadly true, let's hope they work to bridge Dust and EVE
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10070
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 15:41:23 -
[501] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: CCP fooled us all into thinking they were this great innovative company with grand dreams for the ultimate space simulator, encouraged us to give them money to help them get there, and then failed to deliver. ]
CCP didn't fool anyone. What a good scam artist knows is that people are prone to fool themselves, all the scammer has to do is facilitate their already existing condition.
Note, I'm not saying CCP scammed anyone. I'm saying CCP is a business. Its like fast food, you see a commercial with this DELICIOUS looking burger and incredible golden french fries and a damn chalice of elixir-like soda next to it all. What you get from the actual fast food restaurant is....less visually pleasing lol.
The business is trying to sell a product to you and do that by 'over-promising' at every turn while delivering something that is at least useable. ALL businesses do that.
Mature, responsible, realistic adult consumers know this and know to temper their expectations. But the gullible dreamer types take companies at their word and take marketing material at face value and always end up disappointed and bitter.
TL;DR ,it's not CCPs fault that you imagined EVE was (or was going to be) something it's not, it's your fault as a bad and unaware consumer for believing it in the 1st place.
IMO what it boils down to is the base personality of the EVe players involved. I am a realist and have a pessimistic view of life. Because of this, I take things as they come and don't expect any more than that. it's why I wake up in the morning and once I realize I'm still alive I'm happy as all hell. it's why I log in every night to a game I've played for almost 8 years and when good things happen I'm pleasantly surprised, while I shrug off anything bad that happens because, well, bad things happen.
Then you have the 'optimistic' crowd. The think human beings are 'good by nature' (and are thus surprised when someone kills them in a video game 'just because'). They expect things to go well and to improve day by day (and are constantly disappointed). They have highly unrealistic expectations about everything and will not let go of them no matter how many time CCP says they aren't working on WiS ( lol ). They think they are the good guys but they are really bitter, judgmental curmudgeons looking for any excuse to pin their personal short-coming on anyone or anything else.
And they will probably die before me lol. |
Asura Vajrarupa
Sanguis Inceptum
35
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 17:10:13 -
[502] - Quote
Dust itself wasn't the failure, making it PS exclusive instead of PC was the failure. The second they abandon this failure Dust will start flying. So really it is a question of what does CCP as a company love more, pride or money. Personally I think the latter will ultimately win out.
Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
|
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1490
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 23:40:42 -
[503] - Quote
It look like characters have started to breathe in captain quarters - it's very noticeable on female toons due to anatomy.
Perhaps air beyond the door is being conditioned after all. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1054
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 14:06:23 -
[504] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:It look like characters have started to breathe in captain quarters - it's very noticeable on female toons due to anatomy. I am just thinking about that.
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CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1054
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 14:58:13 -
[505] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Chribba just doesn't look the same anymore. If he pops up and shouts "HELLO" in response to that, don't blame me. Hello. I totally would walk around with my old avatar if I could - even if I was a 2D face. /c So, Chribba what if we burn Rens until they make you a hat?
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Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Pyralissa
Kite Co. Space Trucking
8
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Posted - 2015.03.09 08:45:14 -
[506] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:It look like characters have started to breathe in captain quarters - it's very noticeable on female toons due to anatomy.
Certain female characters I'm sure.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1083
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Posted - 2015.03.09 14:14:02 -
[507] - Quote
Pyralissa wrote:Tarpedo wrote:It look like characters have started to breathe in captain quarters - it's very noticeable on female toons due to anatomy. Certain female characters I'm sure. Fixed.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
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DaReaper
Net 7
1851
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Posted - 2015.03.12 19:30:23 -
[508] - Quote
bump cause people don;t know how to search
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Felicity Love
Imperium Galactic Navy
2215
|
Posted - 2015.03.12 20:33:35 -
[509] - Quote
Bump... because some people take things too literally and need to have a sense of humour rudely implanted, preferably through an orifice.
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1097
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Posted - 2015.03.13 00:30:11 -
[510] - Quote
Ooooooo ..... left nostril with your bare finger!
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Kaleen Khadath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.03.13 00:38:53 -
[511] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:TL;DR ,it's not CCPs fault that you imagined EVE was (or was going to be) something it's not, it's your fault as a bad and unaware consumer for believing it in the 1st place.
I'm not sure I agree that the blame on this lies with players. CCP did say and show quite a lot of stuff. Remember the mock-ups of mission planning table, the bar with dancers, etc? The "A Future Vision" video from one of the FanFests, which featured avatar gameplay. Etc., etc. Remember CCP saying how their vision ("from day one", no less!) was to have EVE be a full sci-fi sim, not just spaceships. They talked a big game, but delivered virtually none of it. Just like they talked a lot about how Dust and EVE would interact, and here we are half a decade later, and the interaction is still not there. Or a bunch of other stuff they talked about and showed that never materialized, there's a pretty big list of that stuff. Before I quit the last time, a few years back, I remember that the next big thing was going to be mining fleets and ring mining, that was around 2011-2012 IIRC, how's that coming along, now that it's 2015?
So you see, it's not like CCP is totally blameless in this, and it's the players that had unrealistic expectations and blew things out of proportion. CCP did a lot to spur that along, letting their mouths write checks their ass couldn't cash. To me, CCP stands right there with Peter Molyneux in credibility. It's not necessarily malicious behaviour, but the end result is still the same.
Having said all that, it'll be interesting to see what will be happening with EVE once avatar gameplay becomes standard for sci-fi spaceships. Case in point, both Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous are promising social avatar modules for their games. Whether they'll deliver or not remains to be seen, but the drive towards it is definitely there. I'm hoping that if those two games can deliver, and it is well-received, CCP will pull its head out of wherever it is (for the warmth, it's Iceland, I don't blame them) and do it too.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1097
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Posted - 2015.03.13 00:42:53 -
[512] - Quote
Kaleen Khadath wrote:.... it's the players that had unrealistic expectations ... Go and read about how the World of Darkness team made three Captain's Quarters in a fraction of the time it took the EVE team to model one.
CSM Ten movement for change.
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Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3844
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 07:53:06 -
[513] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Kaleen Khadath wrote:.... it's the players that had unrealistic expectations ... Go and read about how the World of Darkness team made three Captain's Quarters in a fraction of the time it took the EVE team to model one.
Exactly. All the nonsense about the inability to deliver is beaten by the fact that the technology behind Incarna and the CQs was functional enough to go beta testing right before being abandoned.
CCP fired all that talent and that's a fact that speaks loud on the state of avatars in EVE. They're legacy, period.
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
244
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Posted - 2015.03.13 09:36:02 -
[514] - Quote
sometimes things change when ideas become too tedious to implement and show no advantage to the game itself or no financial gain, how fun would eve be if the majority of the players just spent time walking around the station doing "rp" things or whatever people want to do in stations, how many mercs would quit if people just stayed docked and had fun during wardecs? and all the other stuff, you could kill any pvp with walking in stations
wis stations could easily kill eve
maybe the technology was there for captains quarters but thats just the start of it, how would you implement wis in jita during peak time of 1600+ players?
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-á
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Adela Talvanen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
123
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Posted - 2015.03.13 13:23:59 -
[515] - Quote
So long as we eventually get WiS, I don't worry about the delay. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3220
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 13:31:02 -
[516] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:sometimes things change when ideas become too tedious to implement and show no advantage to the game itself or no financial gain, how fun would eve be if the majority of the players just spent time walking around the station doing "rp" things or whatever people want to do in stations, how many mercs would quit if people just stayed docked and had fun during wardecs? and all the other stuff, you could kill any pvp with walking in stations
wis stations could easily kill eve
maybe the technology was there for captains quarters but thats just the start of it, how would you implement wis in jita during peak time of 1600+ players? The players who enjoy PvP and the players who would enjoy WiS are two completely different groups. This is not an issue. Someone who enjoys PvP will not be sitting in a station during a war dec.
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2Sonas1Cup
36
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Posted - 2015.03.13 13:35:36 -
[517] - Quote
I just hope CCP implement the "run" and "jump" feature, or else it wont be as fun. |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
245
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Posted - 2015.03.13 13:36:11 -
[518] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Lan Wang wrote:sometimes things change when ideas become too tedious to implement and show no advantage to the game itself or no financial gain, how fun would eve be if the majority of the players just spent time walking around the station doing "rp" things or whatever people want to do in stations, how many mercs would quit if people just stayed docked and had fun during wardecs? and all the other stuff, you could kill any pvp with walking in stations
wis stations could easily kill eve
maybe the technology was there for captains quarters but thats just the start of it, how would you implement wis in jita during peak time of 1600+ players? The players who enjoy PvP and the players who would enjoy WiS are two completely different groups. This is not an issue. Someone who enjoys PvP will not be sitting in a station during a war dec.
ofcourse they wont but those who dont enjoy pvp ie miners, mission runners, incursion runner can still enjoy the game without having to to undock and deal with wardecs (so this kills wardecs which is a sort of pvp between 2 different groups), thats bad because you are giving people an alternative undocking in the game, im yet to hear anything positive or constructive which you could do in these stations while walking around, like mentioned it provides no content to the game, just something pretty to look at when your bored
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-á
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7940
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 21:25:27 -
[519] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: ofcourse they wont but those who dont enjoy pvp ie miners, mission runners, incursion runner can still enjoy the game without having to to undock and deal with wardecs (so this kills wardecs which is a sort of pvp between 2 different groups), thats bad because you are giving people an alternative undocking in the game, im yet to hear anything positive or constructive which you could do in these stations while walking around, like mentioned it provides no content to the game, just something pretty to look at when your bored
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119995
Technical Support
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3845
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Posted - 2015.03.13 21:35:03 -
[520] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Lan Wang wrote: ofcourse they wont but those who dont enjoy pvp ie miners, mission runners, incursion runner can still enjoy the game without having to to undock and deal with wardecs (so this kills wardecs which is a sort of pvp between 2 different groups), thats bad because you are giving people an alternative undocking in the game, im yet to hear anything positive or constructive which you could do in these stations while walking around, like mentioned it provides no content to the game, just something pretty to look at when your bored
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119995
Oh my, that thread is still alive! (Which is more than we can say about poor Chloe)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1098
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 03:11:41 -
[521] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:sometimes things change when ideas become too tedious to implement and show no advantage to the game itself or no financial gain, how fun would eve be if the majority of the players just spent time walking around the station doing "rp" things or whatever people want to do in stations, how many mercs would quit if people just stayed docked and had fun during wardecs? and all the other stuff, you could kill any pvp with walking in stations
wis stations could easily kill eve
maybe the technology was there for captains quarters but thats just the start of it, how would you implement wis in jita during peak time of 1600+ players? Hmmm .... this makes me think that an EVE roleplaying sim in Second Life might be a great idea.
CSM Ten movement for change.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
3460
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 05:52:52 -
[522] - Quote
If I ever found anyone in my Captain's Quarters, I would be shocked. After I get over that shock and compose myself, measures would be taken to extract any useful biomatter from the intruder and then bid them adieu as they exit poste haste through the airlock.
But I'm not a violent person. Or a person, at all.
Call me Joe.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7943
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Posted - 2015.03.14 05:58:37 -
[523] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:sometimes things change when ideas become too tedious to implement and show no advantage to the game itself or no financial gain, how fun would eve be if the majority of the players just spent time walking around the station doing "rp" things or whatever people want to do in stations, how many mercs would quit if people just stayed docked and had fun during wardecs? and all the other stuff, you could kill any pvp with walking in stations
wis stations could easily kill eve
If the majority of players spent all their time walking in stations then it would seem to me to be the best endorsement CCP could have for implementing it in the first place.
It's not that WIS would kill EVE. Quite the contrary in fact. What it would kill is your EVE. But your game hardly matters when, according to you, what everyone actually wants is to be in the station.
Of course that's a load of crap being spewed by you and the others with a fear that they might lose the ability to force people to play thier way instead of the sandbox way. If people want to hang in a station then God bless them. It's up to them what they want to do in the sandbox. As it is now, probably 10% of the playerbase never undock. Might as well give them something to do between monitoring their market bots and scamming in local.
If you are so afraid that if WIS was offered then no one would fly in space, it's a sad indictment from you on the state of the game.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3397
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 08:15:43 -
[524] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Lan Wang wrote:sometimes things change when ideas become too tedious to implement and show no advantage to the game itself or no financial gain, how fun would eve be if the majority of the players just spent time walking around the station doing "rp" things or whatever people want to do in stations, how many mercs would quit if people just stayed docked and had fun during wardecs? and all the other stuff, you could kill any pvp with walking in stations
wis stations could easily kill eve
If the majority of players spent all their time walking in stations then it would seem to me to be the best endorsement CCP could have for implementing it in the first place. It's not that WIS would kill EVE. Quite the contrary in fact. What it would kill is your EVE. But your game hardly matters when, according to you, what everyone actually wants is to be in the station. Of course that's a load of crap being spewed by you and the others with a fear that they might lose the ability to force people to play thier way instead of the sandbox way. If people want to hang in a station then God bless them. It's up to them what they want to do in the sandbox. As it is now, probably 10% of the playerbase never undock. Might as well give them something to do between monitoring their market bots and scamming in local. If you are so afraid that if WIS was offered then no one would fly in space, it's a sad indictment from you on the state of the game. Mr Epeen
The funny part for EVE is that currently there are WAY more non-players who would walk in stations, than non-players willing to pee-v-pee spaceships. The former niche has never been exploited by CCP, the later has been exploited until depletion and the arrival of competition.
Incarna was a unabated wreck. But also was the future for EVE. Now we are left with the stasis of a forever present.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
|
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
246
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 08:50:24 -
[525] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Lan Wang wrote:sometimes things change when ideas become too tedious to implement and show no advantage to the game itself or no financial gain, how fun would eve be if the majority of the players just spent time walking around the station doing "rp" things or whatever people want to do in stations, how many mercs would quit if people just stayed docked and had fun during wardecs? and all the other stuff, you could kill any pvp with walking in stations
wis stations could easily kill eve
If the majority of players spent all their time walking in stations then it would seem to me to be the best endorsement CCP could have for implementing it in the first place. It's not that WIS would kill EVE. Quite the contrary in fact. What it would kill is your EVE. But your game hardly matters when, according to you, what everyone actually wants is to be in the station. Of course that's a load of crap being spewed by you and the others with a fear that they might lose the ability to force people to play thier way instead of the sandbox way. If people want to hang in a station then God bless them. It's up to them what they want to do in the sandbox. As it is now, probably 10% of the playerbase never undock. Might as well give them something to do between monitoring their market bots and scamming in local. If you are so afraid that if WIS was offered then no one would fly in space, it's a sad indictment from you on the state of the game. Mr Epeen
well eve doesnt exactly have a massive playerbase does it, it peaks at max 40k players which includes alts etc, may be a different story if it had a playerbase the size of wow, im not saying nobody will fly in space im saying it gives people an alternative to undocking, it doesnt ruin my eve personally i undock because im bored of spinning ships then i die because i undocked and i provided content for someone else, ofcourse give me something to do within a station and i wouldnt undock so then im not dying and giving others content, thats a win for me, and i guess thousands of other people will just sit in station and play poker with corp mates instead of going out and risking ships in space because its more fun than ship spinning right?
10% of players never undock so may as well give them something to do?, why would you create in theory a whole new game for a 10% playerbase to simply check market orders or scam in local? if a player is doing any of these things they are using the already faster way which is supplied to them in spreadsheet form. how would they be able to use wis to check market orders or scam in local anyway? if you mean they can have something else to look at then why dont these players sit in cq on the sofa and look at the screen?
of this 10% playerbase how many of these are actual players and how many are just throwaway scam alts, market alts or scout / cyno alts of other players? which login for maybe 10-20minutes a day/week
and the state of the game comment, if there was any sort of advantage wis would provide to the game then ccp would have implemented it, maybe they see that the cons overrun the pros for this sort of thing.
im against walking in stations because it doesnt create any new cool content for the game which encourages people to risk things
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1099
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 14:19:35 -
[526] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Of course that's a load of crap being spewed by you and the others with a fear that they might lose the ability to force people to play their way ... Mr Epeen *If* I win a seat on CSM can I kidnap you into a channel that I use as a sounding board to reign in my more insane "feedback" ideas to CCP?
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
3482
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 16:38:43 -
[527] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:
If you are so afraid that if WIS was offered then no one would fly in space, it's a sad indictment from you on the state of the game.
It may seem self serving for me to agree with your statement, since we have a lot in common above the eyebrows, but it is an excellent point.
If EVE is so good, then WIS would hardly be a threat. If WIS were a threat, then perhaps EVE is not as interesting as everyone makes it out to be.
Call me Joe.
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P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 17:19:11 -
[528] - Quote
I'd love to Enter my CQ and not have to walk 30 seconds each time from my ship just to get inside..... just sayin' brah |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1099
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 18:02:30 -
[529] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:I'd love to Enter my CQ and not have to walk 30 seconds each time from my ship just to get inside..... just sayin' brah Could have a right click for "Set spawn point here"
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7948
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 18:19:24 -
[530] - Quote
P3ps1 Max wrote:I'd love to Enter my CQ and not have to walk 30 seconds each time from my ship just to get inside..... just sayin' brah
I'd like to finish my breakfast and not have to walk 30 seconds to the garage every morning. But that's just the way things are. Life takes time and CCP has chosen to model this.
It's called immersion, my impatient fellow capsuleer. Live it. Love it.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2015.03.14 18:47:24 -
[531] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:P3ps1 Max wrote:I'd love to Enter my CQ and not have to walk 30 seconds each time from my ship just to get inside..... just sayin' brah I'd like to finish my breakfast and not have to walk 30 seconds to the garage every morning. But that's just the way things are. Life takes time and CCP has chosen to model this. It's called immersion, my impatient fellow capsuleer. Live it. Love it. Mr Epeen
RL issue -- I'm sorry to hear that is a struggle.
In reference to the game: Does it look cool? Yes. Immersion points i'd tend to disagree. This is mainly the reason I don't use my CQ very often.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2241
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 19:23:44 -
[532] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:
If you are so afraid that if WIS was offered then no one would fly in space, it's a sad indictment from you on the state of the game.
It may seem self serving for me to agree with your statement, since we have a lot in common above the eyebrows, but it is an excellent point. If EVE is so good, then WIS would hardly be a threat. If WIS were a threat, then perhaps EVE is not as interesting as everyone makes it out to be. WIS was never a threat to EvE which is why it began to be implemented. Unfortunately at the time WIS was coming out CCP made some serious PR mistakes, Greed is good and microscamsations. There was always a small vocal but close to CCP group of players who were totally against WIS fearing it would distract their plebs from the mindless structure grinds and CTA's and WIS was thus sacrificed to placate those particular stupid but politically important (in terms of alliances and CTA) people.
Of course then there was the actual WIS implmentation, which was pretty awful at release. I think if CCP had kept the emphasis on EvE (a proven and unique product) they could have used WIS as a modular social platform (completely separate from the EvE system) to plug in other products such as Dust as well as run the WIS component.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
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Kaleen Khadath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.03.14 19:51:23 -
[533] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:wis stations could easily kill eve
I would argue that not implementing WiS is more likely to kill EVE. Look at player activity in the last 3 years, is it going up or down? Well, it's down, actually. In fact, when I came back in December, after more than 2 years away, I was shocked. Last time I played, it was normal to see 60k players online at primetime. Now, we don't even hit 40k most of the time. And I've seen off-primetime numbers as low as below 20k. Considering how many people in this game are running multiple alt accounts, that's a pretty sad number.
And these numbers are after over almost 3 years of uninterrupted ships-only development. After Incarna, WiS was abandoned, and since then it's been spaceships, spaceships, spaceships. Which would be fine, if that meant the game grew, or at least stayed stable. But it didn't. It's slowly dying. Common sense dictates that if CCP continues to focus on spaceships and doesn't drastically alter what they're doing, the game will die sooner rather than later.
Now, don't get me wrong, spaceship changes are nice and needed. The upcoming Sov overhaul is needed, and time will tell whether it's nice or not. Heck, arguably Sov has the potential to kill EVE too. But leaving it as it is isn't a solution.
The way I see it, EVE right now needs serious surgery. Yes, surgery has risks, and could kill it. But without surgery, it's a certain death either way.
Also consider the simple fact that by this time next year, there will likely be at least one sci-fi spaceship game with a social WiS element to it, namely Star Citizen. There's high possibility that another sci-fi spaceship game will also have WiS, namely Elite: Dangerous. These are the major ones, but there's more on the way. Now, when all these games begin to come out with WiS, players will get used to WiS and expect it as "the norm". It will therefore get very, very difficult for EVE to attract new players after that.
Picture this. You fire up Star Citizen, you create your char. You then get to walk your char around the planet, high-five other chars, trade with them, talk with them, and finally walk into your hangar, climb into your ship and fly off. Neat. Now, this same player decides to try EVE Online after that. Logs in, so far, so good. Creates his character. Again, so far, so good. And then? Finds himself locked in a room, with no meaningful gameplay, and from there he never sees his character again? Can you really picture new players sticking around after that? Imagine if someone released an MMO today where after character creation, you're playing as a "box", rather than the character you created. Would such an MMO have a hope in hell of survival? Not likely, right? But that's EVE, and that's where it's headed.
The way I see it, right now, EVE has nothing to lose. If they don't shake it up in a major way (and no, sov/null alone isn't going to do it, only about 20% of EVE's population are in null, 60% are in high sec and don't give a hoot about sov), it's already dead. They have nothing to lose. And they have precious little time to do it.
Quote:maybe the technology was there for captains quarters but thats just the start of it, how would you implement wis in jita during peak time of 1600+ players?
Same way all other MMOs do it - phasing, instancing, sizing, etc. There's plenty of tech to deal with that stuff. Tech isn't the problem. Besides, if you stop and think about it, there's a reason why there's 1600+ chars in Jita at peak. That reason is game design. If the market was designed differently, to support more decentralized trading, market hubs such as Jita wouldn't be needed or as frequented. Heck, I bet you if EVE simply started booting AFK people after 15-30 minutes, the same way 99% of other MMOs do, that 1600+ in Jita would suddenly get a LOT smaller. It's all manageable, it just needs to be managed. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2243
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 20:42:11 -
[534] - Quote
Kaleen Khadath wrote:Lan Wang wrote:maybe the technology was there for captains quarters but thats just the start of it, how would you implement wis in jita during peak time of 1600+ players? Same way all other MMOs do it - phasing, instancing, sizing, etc. There's plenty of tech to deal with that stuff. Tech isn't the problem. Besides, if you stop and think about it, there's a reason why there's 1600+ chars in Jita at peak. That reason is game design. If the market was designed differently, to support more decentralized trading, market hubs such as Jita wouldn't be needed or as frequented. Heck, I bet you if EVE simply started booting AFK people after 15-30 minutes, the same way 99% of other MMOs do, that 1600+ in Jita would suddenly get a LOT smaller. It's all manageable, it just needs to be managed. Besides, even with the current system, Jita often gets locked so you can't jump into it or log in if you logged off there (without being transported to a nearby system). So even the current implementation is already "forced" and broken. You don't even need to implement WIS with 1600+ players in Jita. You could transfer players onto a different cluster to run WIS. You dock. You're in station. You click to enter WIS environment. Server hands you off from the EvE cluster to the WIS cluster. Could still be connected to market, chat channels in the same way Dust is. Its basically just an interactive lobby environment that can log you into EVE.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
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Marsha Mallow
2017
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 20:43:29 -
[535] - Quote
Welcome back
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Relax, it is only a game and elections work on popularity, not competence.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2244
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 21:12:31 -
[536] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Welcome back Thanks :) Interested in the new changes made, being made soon.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
|
Kresh Malik
The Dutch East India Company Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 21:32:34 -
[537] - Quote
I'm still waiting for them to let me walk around my ship. |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
246
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 21:35:44 -
[538] - Quote
Kaleen Khadath wrote:Lan Wang wrote:wis stations could easily kill eve I would argue that not implementing WiS is more likely to kill EVE. Look at player activity in the last 3 years, is it going up or down? Well, it's down, actually. In fact, when I came back in December, after more than 2 years away, I was shocked. Last time I played, it was normal to see 60k players online at primetime. Now, we don't even hit 40k most of the time. And I've seen off-primetime numbers as low as below 20k. Considering how many people in this game are running multiple alt accounts, that's a pretty sad number. And these numbers are after over almost 3 years of uninterrupted ships-only development. After Incarna, WiS was abandoned, and since then it's been spaceships, spaceships, spaceships. Which would be fine, if that meant the game grew, or at least stayed stable. But it didn't. It's slowly dying. Common sense dictates that if CCP continues to focus on spaceships and doesn't drastically alter what they're doing, the game will die sooner rather than later. Now, don't get me wrong, spaceship changes are nice and needed. The upcoming Sov overhaul is needed, and time will tell whether it's nice or not. Heck, arguably Sov has the potential to kill EVE too. But leaving it as it is isn't a solution. The way I see it, EVE right now needs serious surgery. Yes, surgery has risks, and could kill it. But without surgery, it's a certain death either way. Also consider the simple fact that by this time next year, there will likely be at least one sci-fi spaceship game with a social WiS element to it, namely Star Citizen. There's high possibility that another sci-fi spaceship game will also have WiS, namely Elite: Dangerous. These are the major ones, but there's more on the way. Now, when all these games begin to come out with WiS, players will get used to WiS and expect it as "the norm". It will therefore get very, very difficult for EVE to attract new players after that. Picture this. You fire up Star Citizen, you create your char. You then get to walk your char around the planet, high-five other chars, trade with them, talk with them, and finally walk into your hangar, climb into your ship and fly off. Neat. Now, this same player decides to try EVE Online after that. Logs in, so far, so good. Creates his character. Again, so far, so good. And then? Finds himself locked in a room, with no meaningful gameplay, and from there he never sees his character again? Can you really picture new players sticking around after that? Imagine if someone released an MMO today where after character creation, you're playing as a "box", rather than the character you created. Would such an MMO have a hope in hell of survival? Not likely, right? But that's EVE, and that's where it's headed. The way I see it, right now, EVE has nothing to lose. If they don't shake it up in a major way (and no, sov/null alone isn't going to do it, only about 20% of EVE's population are in null, 60% are in high sec and don't give a hoot about sov), it's already dead. They have nothing to lose. And they have precious little time to do it. Quote:maybe the technology was there for captains quarters but thats just the start of it, how would you implement wis in jita during peak time of 1600+ players? Same way all other MMOs do it - phasing, instancing, sizing, etc. There's plenty of tech to deal with that stuff. Tech isn't the problem. Besides, if you stop and think about it, there's a reason why there's 1600+ chars in Jita at peak. That reason is game design. If the market was designed differently, to support more decentralized trading, market hubs such as Jita wouldn't be needed or as frequented. Heck, I bet you if EVE simply started booting AFK people after 15-30 minutes, the same way 99% of other MMOs do, that 1600+ in Jita would suddenly get a LOT smaller. It's all manageable, it just needs to be managed. Besides, even with the current system, Jita often gets locked so you can't jump into it or log in if you logged off there (without being transported to a nearby system). So even the current implementation is already "forced" and broken.
no people wont assume walking in stations is the norm, do people assume driving millitary vehicles in a war game is the norm? you can on battlefield but not in cod and both still have a huge number of players, world of tanks do you have infantary or is it just tanks? racing games such as forza and gran turismo, can you walk around the garage? no but you can in test drive. just because you can do something in 1 does not mean that it needs to be in every game.
eve does have something to lose, the remainder of the players and if it implements wis and it doesnt work people will just leave the game, yes eve does need surgery but it needs to sort its core game before introducing another pile of issues that people will complain about with wis
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1100
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 00:32:18 -
[539] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:no people wont assume walking in stations is the norm, People used to assume that online games would be text ones like MUDs
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Feu dAstres
Nox Draconum Holding Corp Nox Draconum
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 01:11:10 -
[540] - Quote
Text ... like the massive amount of time spent here in the forums, writing and reading text? |
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
181
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 01:30:43 -
[541] - Quote
i have mentioned it before, but ill repeat myself abit.... im really supriced that this post hasnt been closed... its clearly redundant, too much offtopic and littered With trolls.... something smells fishy... it counterdict the behavior of the ISD. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1104
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 01:33:18 -
[542] - Quote
Feu dAstres wrote:... Eve Valkyrie looks like perhaps the next extension of possibilities. Don't know why but I can never see the hidden image in those 3D posters we used to have. I can't use 3D glasses they ones that look like they are made for a solar eclipse just make me cry constantly and don't seem to work. VR also just messes with my eyes and looks really weird.
I could use low refresh rate CRTs and hardly see the scanning. So, I don't think it is anything along those lines.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3847
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Posted - 2015.03.15 10:44:45 -
[543] - Quote
Kaleen Khadath wrote:(nice points were raised)
The failure to implement Incarna put CCP in a very tough position.
Afterwards, they needed to:
1- fix broken and disfunctional content (paying the "development debt") 2- update the functioning content to keep the player base interested 3- expand the game content to reach players not interested in the existing content
But only have the time and resources for TWO of those... barely.
Failing to do 1 would had killed CCP every year since 2011 Failing to do 2 could kill them in a couple of years Failing to do 3 will kill them for sure but the date is uncertain
So they hope to finish 1 while doing 2 in order to still have time left to perform 3... but that's impossible.
CCP had a small chance to perform 2 & 3 if they had kept working on WiS... but they didn't. Relevant people in the orgnization had spoiled it big time and others were vindicated and shot WiS dead (FAI, the very influential Art team). They went to upgrading EVE's core spaceships game and by doing that they lost all chances to retain and draw in players who weren't interested in such core spaceships game.
And now those players have got better things to do than play EVE's core spaceships game. It's no longer "play EVE or F2P crap".
I've said that CCP Seagull is the right person to do what needs to be done, even if it's wrong and will kill EVE. I had hopes that she could save the farm, but that's impossible at this point. What can be done, she's doing it nicely. But as Ripard Teg put it, she's performing EVE's last run to the fences, and they won't make it.
The colonization of new space beyond player built gates in new sovereignty space is too little, too late, and fails to adress the nastiest truth in EVE Online:
EVE Online is being paid by people who still don't know that they don't like it.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Aragoni
Black Talon Command Mercury Seven
186
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 10:55:39 -
[544] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:EVE Online is being paid by people who still don't know that they don't like it.
And here you are.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3847
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 11:30:40 -
[545] - Quote
Aragoni wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:EVE Online is being paid by people who still don't know that they don't like it. And here you are.
Funny, isn't it? It's like coffee. I don't like it, but I like milk alone less than milk with instant coffee. So, here I am, buying coffee...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
605
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 12:14:12 -
[546] - Quote
Aren't these people who want 3D avatars to wander around stations amongst each other (with emotes they also badgered CCP into "introducing") going to be really surprised when they discover they comprise such a limited minority of the playerbase (no matter how loudly they screech otherwise) that they barely merit the bandwidth this and other WiS posts are sopping up?
Imagine, playing WoW and having that hippodragonpanda emoting such fabulous things as *sob* or *cheer*, then coming over here to discover EVE only has spaceships! Spaceships? Is that ALL???? It must be quite a shock. Believe me, we'd sympathize, but you need to show us some sign of brain function so we know we're not shouting into an empty cavern.
[insert flame here]
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1596
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 12:28:57 -
[547] - Quote
Aragoni wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:EVE Online is being paid by people who still don't know that they don't like it. And here you are.
Me too, skill training online waiting for "I haven't got a clue*". -.-
Edit: *That's not walking in stations, dancing... fake drinking bree... etc. |
Vyl Vit
1091
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 16:18:53 -
[548] - Quote
Maybe we should be honored. We're in the presence of a psychological condition specific to internet gaming. It doesn't even have a name! (Maybe would could get around to this.) What are the symptoms?
1.) Games on the internet (simple, naturally.)
2.) Is easily bored with games, but just doesn't know why.
3.) Thinks he/she is real good at any game he/she has an account with, regardless of his/her actual game play.
4.) Wanders to "other" games to spread this "expertise."
5.) Invades their forums to tell the "fools already there" just how to make "the perfect game."
6.) The perfect game is inevitably his/her favorite game he/she has an account for but is bored with already.
7.) Repeats procedure ad infinitum succeeding only in compiling a long list of games he/she "plays."
8.) Measures success in gaming with the length of said list.
So glad you found us. Therapy is coming soon. Until then, go back to playing with your bellybutton lint. We'll let you know.
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
608
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 16:24:59 -
[549] - Quote
Yo. Vyl. How do you spell "contempt"?
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Marsha Mallow
2031
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 17:35:17 -
[550] - Quote
For all the people whittering on about how Star Citizen and ED will kil EvE, there's a comment here from a dev that's worth taking into consideration. I'm inclined to agree that more sci-fi games on the market is a good thing. You could see it as a chance for other companies to invest the resources into testing gameplay mechanics and proving which ones work/don't rather than something to be worried about.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Relax, it is only a game and elections work on popularity, not competence.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1107
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 02:04:46 -
[551] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:For all of the people whittering on about how Star Citizen and ED will kill EvE, there's a comment here from a dev that's worth taking into consideration. I'm inclined to agree that more sci-fi games on the market is a good thing. You could see it as a chance for other companies to invest the resources into testing gameplay mechanics and proving which ones work/don't rather than something to be worried about. WiS is part of the original design.Pok Nibin wrote:Aren't these people who want 3D avatars to wander around stations amongst each other (with emotes they also badgered CCP into "introducing") going to be really surprised when they discover they comprise such a limited minority of the playerbase (no matter how loudly they screech otherwise) that they barely merit the bandwidth this and other WiS posts are sopping up?
Imagine, playing WoW and having that hippodragonpanda emoting such fabulous things as *sob* or *cheer*, then coming over here to discover EVE only has spaceships! Spaceships? Is that ALL???? It must be quite a shock. Believe me, we'd sympathize, but you need to show us some sign of brain function so we know we're not shouting into an empty cavern.
[insert flame here] I would be happy with the ability to invite people into the Captain's Quarters. I don't know, pretty weird of me but I would rather "see" who I am talking to during a meeting than stroke my phallic ship.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
316
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 02:11:05 -
[552] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Feu dAstres wrote:... Eve Valkyrie looks like perhaps the next extension of possibilities. Don't know why but I can never see the hidden image in those 3D posters we used to have. I can't use 3D glasses they ones that look like they are made for a solar eclipse just make me cry constantly and don't seem to work. VR also just messes with my eyes and looks really weird. I could use low refresh rate CRTs and hardly see the scanning. So, I don't think it is anything along those lines.
Probably an interocular distance thing. I can take two photos from a slightly different place then hold them up crossing my eyes and see 3-D. |
Healthy Mary
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.03.16 04:19:57 -
[553] - Quote
Forget walking... when do we get to strut, gambol, or sashay in stations? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7955
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 04:31:46 -
[554] - Quote
Healthy Mary wrote:Forget walking... when do we get to strut, gambol, or sashay in stations?
I think if you did anything but slowly shuffle, you'd not only be a danger to those around you, but would likely have black eyes all the time. Those things thrusting from your chest are lethal weapons when not respected. Never strut or sashay when equiped with triple Ds.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1107
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 04:35:11 -
[555] - Quote
Healthy Mary wrote:Forget walking... when do we get to strut, gambol, or sashay in stations? I proceed. Others shuffle along in half bows, eyes averted.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
649
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Posted - 2015.03.16 06:13:39 -
[556] - Quote
First and foremost I think EvE's population has slightly dropped in recent days since I started playing (around 2010) - that being said I do not think that the game itself is actually dying. More so cleansing things like BOTs etc. Once the primary re-balancing passes have been completed (to the point where it isn't solely Ishtars or any other ship) and new content is implemented I would not be surprised to see the numbers start to come back up.
The notion that WIS would kill EvE is silly though in my opinion - unless you add a degree of violence to the whole ordeal. Many people will always want to Pew-Pew with other people in game. Those who would stay in station would most likely be newer players (More people paying) or people who already do not undock. Assuming role-players are there; a course of action is layed out, hair frizzled and people pissed off. Now what? Words now need to be put into action.
Regardless, I do hope that walking in stations becomes implemented and that CCP adds a large amount of gambling activities and other things for players to do. Implementing it with Dust Bunny Slaves and Legion Master Race players will also be fantastic - as it will allow us to coordinate with them and actually bring forth meaningful impact. Currently the only way to do this is out of game (for the most part) making it to meta reliant. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2248
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 20:20:01 -
[557] - Quote
It's not dying its stagnating. CCP failed to diversify its player base. Instead of implementing content to satisfy all the major segments of its player base PvP, PvE and Industry / Trade they focused exclusively on a subsection of PvP (alliances) and largely ignored PvE, PvP (solo, small gang), PvE, industry and trade. They also failed to implement proper moderation of exploits / unintended game mechanics (a good example is the Lofty exploit that was allowed to persist for years).
Another great example is CCPs inabilty to properly react to increasely larger blobs and the associated lag. One of the consequences of CCPs poor design decisions is the ability to defeat an enemy by bringing more ships. It doesn't take a genius to figure that without a consequence to numbers, each party to a conflict will over time seek to bring greater and greater numbers.
Instead of implementing a system of deminished returns on numbers they bandaid the symptoms and fail to address the disease.
Games are sold largely due to word of mouth (or typing fingers) not how many ships you can stream fighting at 1 fps before your servers crash.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1492
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 20:20:27 -
[558] - Quote
By the way: EVE may become less relevant soon as I see another potential competitor is emerging, from direction opposite to spaceship game - from "WiS". The game is focused on avatars at the moment and this part is actually very good (toons have same quality as in EVE, if not better) - but I'm 100% sure they'll add spaceships long before 2017, it's the next logical step: multiple planets are visible within the game right now and previous MMO game by the same devs had combat ships.
Interesting times. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3849
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Posted - 2015.03.16 20:40:06 -
[559] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:By the way: without WiS EVE may become even less relevant soon as I see another potential competitor is emerging, from direction opposite to spaceship game - from "WiS". The game is focused on avatars at the moment and this part is actually very good (toons have same quality as in EVE, if not better) - but I'm 100% sure they'll add spaceships long before 2017, it's the next logical step: multiple planets are visible within the game right now and previous MMO game by the same devs had combat ships. And unlike many others - "kickstarted" - competitors this game does not look like naive semi-amateur project but somewhat expensive development ($15-20M probably) + it's created by experienced team with multiple successful games behind them.
Interesting times.
Could you evemail me the name of that game?
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Serene Repose
2404
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 22:09:07 -
[560] - Quote
I somehow sense there are people who think if they just keep saying it over and over "WiS...WiS...WiS..." while clicking the heels of their ruby slippers, the man behind the curtain is going to be hypnotized into making it happen....visit somebody in their quarters...in a game about spaceships. One can only hope that during this annoyingly repetitive process, they talk themselves into loading a game where they can go visit each other in their quarters. Isn't that Sim Somethin' or Other.?
This takes "delusional" to an entirely new level, which in itself is interesting, I guess. Maybe these are the same people who, when trudging across a desert, point to the horizon and say, "Look! A lake!" Then, wander off never again to be seen.
One can only hope.
PRO TIP: When trudging across a desert with empty canteens the first to say, "I'm thirsty," dies.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34819
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 22:18:32 -
[561] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Healthy Mary wrote:Forget walking... when do we get to strut, gambol, or sashay in stations? I proceed. Others shuffle along in half bows, eyes averted. You're not on the CSM yet.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10184
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 22:19:23 -
[562] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:It's not dying its stagnating. CCP failed to diversify its player base. Instead of implementing content to satisfy all the major segments of its player base PvP, PvE and Industry / Trade they focused exclusively on a subsection of PvP (alliances) and largely ignored PvE, PvP (solo, small gang), PvE, industry and trade. They also failed to implement proper moderation of exploits / unintended game mechanics (a good example is the Lofty exploit that was allowed to persist for years).
Another great example is CCPs inabilty to properly react to increasely larger blobs and the associated lag. One of the consequences of CCPs poor design decisions is the ability to defeat an enemy by bringing more ships. It doesn't take a genius to figure that without a consequence to numbers, each party to a conflict will over time seek to bring greater and greater numbers.
Instead of implementing a system of deminished returns on numbers they bandaid the symptoms and fail to address the disease.
Games are sold largely due to word of mouth (or typing fingers) not how many ships you can stream fighting at 1 fps before your servers crash.
ROTFLMAO (old I know, but nothing else fits)
Well look who slinked back after failing in the campaign to get people to not play this game (by going to every possible website complaining about EVE).
And here you are, with posting right demonstrating that in one way or another, you just paid CCP ( a company you HATE) for access, after swearing you wouldn't come back.
ROTFLMAO again. I'm honestly sitting at the keyboard crying it's so damn funny. How is it possible that people exist that swear something is dying while they themselves keep paying to keep it on life support. Hot damn this is epic.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12149
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Posted - 2015.03.16 22:21:30 -
[563] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: And here you are, with posting right demonstrating that in one way or another, you just paid CCP ( a company you HATE) for access, after swearing you wouldn't come back.
Not just swearing they wouldn't come back.
Making five threads about it here, then making a thread on mmorpg.com about it, defaming the game and everyone who plays it.
I am in stitches.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10186
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 22:28:05 -
[564] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Aragoni wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:EVE Online is being paid by people who still don't know that they don't like it. And here you are. Funny, isn't it? It's like coffee. I don't like it, but I like milk alone less than milk with instant coffee. So, here I am, buying coffee...
The most supreme Irony is that the people like you defeat your own goals. If you left and didn't come back and enough disappointed people did the same, you might actually get what you wanted (the near death of EVE that forces CCP to mainstream it with crap like WiS). But it's YOUR SUBS (or your use of plex that pours even more money into CCPs coffers) that keeps EVE a spaceship only game. Thanks for that btw.
It's incredible, you left and swore to not come back, IZ did the same and yet here are both of you in this very thread paying a company you hate to make a game that disappoints you.
It's not the fact that you do this incredibly screwed up thing, it's your 15 bucks go crazy, some people pay women in leather to beat them like they are step-children lol. The problem is how in every discussion with you types you act like it's US (regular people) who are somehow cracked. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12152
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 22:32:12 -
[565] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: It's not the fact that you do this incredibly screw up thing, it's your 15 bucks go crazy, some people pay women in leather to beat them like they are step-children lol. The problem is how in every discussion with you types you act like it US (regular people) who are somehow cracked.
Hey now, don't knock bondage as a profession. It's a good career starter and income source for aspiring young actresses, and it's far more respectable than going on Springer or some such.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
769
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Posted - 2015.03.16 22:44:43 -
[566] - Quote
Heh, a walking in stations thread.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
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Tykari
The Observatory Celestial Imperative
163
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:35:58 -
[567] - Quote
Personally I have never had anything against the idea of WiS content. The idea of being to walk around in the stations and perhaps even on the surface of planets does have a certain appeal and there is potential to add other components of gameplay. That said, the way CCP handled WiS was terrible and even worse it seemed to actually get in the way of fixing and maintaining the spaceships part of the game. If CCP had the resources to do both in a good fashion so one doesn't interfere with the other I'd be all for it. It would be a good way to expand EVE a little more into the ultimate scifi game, provide some new aspects to the game without forcing anyone into them and likely draw in some new players. EVE isn't just one play style, every player has their preference, I don't see why WiS couldn't be just another area of the game people choose to play.
In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23977
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Posted - 2015.03.17 00:18:40 -
[568] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: It's not the fact that you do this incredibly screwed up thing, it's your 15 bucks go crazy, some people pay women in leather to beat them like they are step-children lol. The problem is how in every discussion with you types you act like it's US (regular people) who are somehow cracked.
$15 is an order of magnitude off for the going rate for a service like this. For those whom I've helped experience this, I have been told that it's an incredibly cathartic experience and worth every penny. The difference here is that the experience comes with its own physical and emotional release.. which justifies the price of entry.
Folks hung up on WIS on the other hand are not paying for release.. they are experiencing something that admittedly gives them no pleasure..
#afkleadership -óߦªß¦ç-ó
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7968
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 00:53:33 -
[569] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: It's not the fact that you do this incredibly screwed up thing, it's your 15 bucks go crazy, some people pay women in leather to beat them like they are step-children lol. The problem is how in every discussion with you types you act like it's US (regular people) who are somehow cracked.
$15 is an order of magnitude off for the going rate for a service like this. For those whom I've helped experience this, I have been told that it's an incredibly cathartic experience and worth every penny. The difference here is that the experience comes with its own physical and emotional release.. which justifies the price of entry. Folks hung up on WIS on the other hand are not paying for release.. they are experiencing something that admittedly gives them no pleasure..
WIS, nerf highsec, get rid of NPC corps, make Bluesec a God mode area, nerf ganking, remove bumping, etc.
We see that **** all day long in here. Everyone is hung up on something. They want what they want and don't care how it will affect game balance. So they cry and they cry in every thread that's even remotely close to their pet cause.
But since they pay their subs, it''s fully acceptable for them to whine all day every day, even though any thinking person knows CCP is not stupid enough to pander to their incessant mewling. Nothing will come of most of these deceased equines because to implement them would be game breaking.
Here's the thing about WIS, though. It would not be game breaking. It would be a good addition that would likely multiply the player base many fold. The people with the WASD phobia will keep to their ships and the massive influx of a whole new demographic will hang out in stations. It's a win/win. More players, more money for CCP, more new people to try and recruit into player corps.
So, even though I don't see it happening any time soon, I'll not begrudge people for not letting it go. It's a great dream to have. One that CCP shares with those that want to see some implementation of avatar gameplay.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2248
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 01:54:10 -
[570] - Quote
I don't recall saying I wasn't coming back. I recall saying I was leaving. Anyways I do what I like, its a human condition to change ones mind and I missed Walrus and the other sad lonely souls that live to troll these forums.
I would have been back sooner but I bought a gym and have been busy with that.
I noticed the majority of the things I suggested (cooldowns on supers, sov changes to make sov taking easier, the issue with extraordinary amounts of isk coming from null pve) have both been confirmed, implemented or soon to be implemented.
So I thought I'd come back and try them out....
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
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Paranoid Loyd
4217
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:56:12 -
[571] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I don't recall saying I wasn't coming back. I recall saying I was leaving. Anyways I do what I like, its a human condition to change ones mind and I missed Walrus and the other sad lonely souls that live to troll these forums. I would have been back sooner but I bought a gym and have been busy with that. I noticed the majority of the things I suggested (cooldowns on supers, sov changes to make sov taking easier, the issue with extraordinary amounts of isk coming from null pve) have both been confirmed, implemented or soon to be implemented. So I thought I'd come back and try them out.... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=337649
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2248
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 02:01:30 -
[572] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:... Anyways I do what I like, its a human condition to change ones mind and I missed Walrus and the other sad lonely souls that live to troll these forums.
I'm back, deal with it :)
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4318
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 03:47:08 -
[573] - Quote
given the whopping libelous fibs you spread about the eve community, individual players and ccp, i assume you've been working on an apology |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2249
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 04:22:15 -
[574] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:given the whopping libelous fibs you spread about the eve community, individual players and ccp, i assume you've been working on an apology Its not libel if its substantially true and its for the benefit of the public rather than to harm the person or company being discussed. So no, no apology forthcoming.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1113
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 04:42:32 -
[575] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Healthy Mary wrote:Forget walking... when do we get to strut, gambol, or sashay in stations? I proceed. Others shuffle along in half bows, eyes averted. You're not on the CSM yet. "Yet?" I found a believer! Quick! Get the medics!
Thing is, that the stations are cosmetic. So, players can submit graphical assets and CCP can accept, reject or request modifications. They can be paid in AUR and sign something.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12156
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 11:48:55 -
[576] - Quote
Kaarous called it when he said wrote: The third rule of being Infinity Ziona:
"Convictions are only there for as long as they are useful to me personally".
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10193
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 12:27:13 -
[577] - Quote
In other words, we know what we always knew, the guy is full of........it (lol). All good, what's a forum without a laughingstock?
But there is a greater point here, which is why it's so incredibly special that this IZ person is also a WiSer. WiS fans are so out of touch with the realities of EVE and and so delusional in their advocacy (even in the face of indefinite "NO") that they end up reminding me of these people.. The last paragraph of that link should be required reading for every WiSer. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1116
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 16:23:34 -
[578] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:http://www.salon.com/2013/09/26/study_everyone_hates_environmentalists_and_feminists_partner/ To everyone in general, if you paste the link into Google you can click a little down arrow " v " and see it cached, adds a little safety to browsing random stuff from people.
(It looks like a tabloid)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2258
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 03:15:52 -
[579] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:In other words, we know what we always knew, the guy is full of........it (lol). All good, what's a forum without a laughingstock? But there is a greater point here, which is why it's so incredibly special that this IZ person is also a WiSer. WiS fans are so out of touch with the realities of EVE and and so delusional in their advocacy (even in the face of indefinite "NO") that they end up reminding me of these people.. The last paragraph of that link should be required reading for every WiSer. indefinite "no's" require challenge. Stopping WIS was amateur and foolish. Someone competent might one day start to listen to what players want rather than just pandering to a failed group of gamers whose aim it is to turn games to crap for lolz.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10213
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 03:30:12 -
[580] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: indefinite "no's" require challenge.
If it's someone who owes you such consideration (like a government), maybe. But CCP is a private company and as evidenced by it's continued existence (funded even by the likes of people who dislike what they to, the game they ade and the community it spawned....like you )they are pretty much doing things right.
You (and folks like you, many of whom are participants in this thread) are amazing to me both in game and out, you live in a world of frustration, a world in which you experience so much, I guess the word is , 'friction' as you try to bend reality to your will, even to the point of FUNDING people who do the opposite of what you want in the slim and unrealistic hope that one day, someone will change their minds and give you what you want.
That sir, is simply a batshit crazy way to be IMHO. It's literally wasting the one and only thing human beings have that's worth anything. Time.
Of course, it's your time to waste.
Quote: Stopping WIS was amateur and foolish. Someone competent might one day start to listen to what players want rather than just pandering to a failed group of gamers whose aim it is to turn games to crap for lolz.
Who wants to turn the game into crap for lolz? Other than goons, but their is more to this community than goons. |
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2258
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 06:41:38 -
[581] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: indefinite "no's" require challenge.
If it's someone who owes you such consideration (like a government), maybe. But CCP is a private company and as evidenced by it's continued existence (funded even by the likes of people who dislike what they to, the game they ade and the community it spawned....like you )they are pretty much doing things right. You (and folks like you, many of whom are participants in this thread) are amazing to me both in game and out, you live in a world of frustration, a world in which you experience so much, I guess the word is , 'friction' as you try to bend reality to your will, even to the point of FUNDING people who do the opposite of what you want in the slim and unrealistic hope that one day, someone will change their minds and give you what you want. That sir, is simply a batshit crazy way to be IMHO. It's literally wasting the one and only thing human beings have that's worth anything. Time. Of course, it's your time to waste. Quote: Stopping WIS was amateur and foolish. Someone competent might one day start to listen to what players want rather than just pandering to a failed group of gamers whose aim it is to turn games to crap for lolz. Who wants to turn the game into crap for lolz? Other than goons, but their is more to this community than goons. I have plenty of time. I don't hate CCP or EvE. On the contrary it's my love of this game that causes me to come back every once in a while in the hope they'll wise up and get rid of the toxic environment they have deliberately fostered.
If they clean the turds out of the sandbox it might become attractive once again to people wanting to play rather than game the game.
When I criticise CCP it's because I saw what a great game they had prior too Ovuer leaving and I've watched as it and it's reputation was demolished by subsequent lead devs.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
726
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 16:24:35 -
[582] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: indefinite "no's" require challenge.
If it's someone who owes you such consideration (like a government), maybe. But CCP is a private company and as evidenced by it's continued existence (funded even by the likes of people who dislike what they to, the game they ade and the community it spawned....like you )they are pretty much doing things right. You (and folks like you, many of whom are participants in this thread) are amazing to me both in game and out, you live in a world of frustration, a world in which you experience so much, I guess the word is , 'friction' as you try to bend reality to your will, even to the point of FUNDING people who do the opposite of what you want in the slim and unrealistic hope that one day, someone will change their minds and give you what you want. That sir, is simply a batshit crazy way to be IMHO. It's literally wasting the one and only thing human beings have that's worth anything. Time. Of course, it's your time to waste. Quote: Stopping WIS was amateur and foolish. Someone competent might one day start to listen to what players want rather than just pandering to a failed group of gamers whose aim it is to turn games to crap for lolz. Who wants to turn the game into crap for lolz? Other than goons, but their is more to this community than goons. I have plenty of time. I don't hate CCP or EvE. On the contrary it's my love of this game that causes me to come back every once in a while in the hope they'll wise up and get rid of the toxic environment they have deliberately fostered. If they clean the turds out of the sandbox it might become attractive once again to people wanting to play rather than game the game. When I criticise CCP it's because I saw what a great game they had prior too Ovuer leaving and I've watched as it and it's reputation was demolished by subsequent lead devs.
Infinity,
Great to see you back, it is rather frustrating to see the toxicity left to run amok, however its best to just keep plugging away to try to lesson this aspect of Eve.
The walking in stations was to add to the immersion in the game and it is a shame that it was put on hold, personally I would enjoy that part of the game, however I like some of the event driven stuff being created by CCP recently, the lore seems to be getting some loving, so there is hope.
Have fun and I will check up with you in game.
Ella's Snack bar
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4322
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 07:31:44 -
[583] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:given the whopping libelous fibs you spread about the eve community, individual players and ccp, i assume you've been working on an apology Its not libel if its substantially true and its for the benefit of the public rather than to harm the person or company being discussed. So no, no apology forthcoming. you can post your apology in your mmorpg thread anytime you're ready. the one titled 'don't play eve', posted right ater you ragequit, with the fibs about ccp and eve online players in it
a reasonable person would also amend the op to issue corrections |
Sophie Mahler
Hedion University Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 08:22:38 -
[584] - Quote
rather than walking in stations, I'd love to see walking in spaceships, much like SWG did back in the days with multiplayer spaceships, one would handle navigation, another would deal with missiles, others with turrets, another with repairs within the ships, we could imagine players dealing with EW stuff etc...
a class of multiplayer ships
we don't "have to" actually walk in the ship but it'd be nice.
they could also be used as places for councils meetings and whatnot.
and I'd love to see my toon walking the ship and watching outside.
it'd just be, IMO, more immersive
probably useless, but I like immersion |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30898
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 11:44:00 -
[585] - Quote
HMDs are going to force WiS to happen.
Help, I can't download EVE
|
Flamespar
WarRavens
1303
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 12:29:48 -
[586] - Quote
So it turns out they can't open the door cause they are spending resources on VR gimmicks.
Yay. Something that only 2% of players will ever use.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3860
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 13:56:38 -
[587] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:So it turns out they can't open the door cause they are spending resources on VR gimmicks.
Yay. Something that only 2% of players will ever use.
Unless the Rift is greenlighted on May (as much) it will miss the Xmas season and thus will need to be pushed back to 2016. And the nicer thing is that ATM if you owe a Rift and fancy internet spaceships, Elite: Dangerous is the game to play.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4324
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 14:25:16 -
[588] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:So it turns out they can't open the door cause they are spending resources on VR gimmicks.
Yay. Something that only 2% of players will ever use. to be fair the hinges are probably pretty rusty by now and opening it might be hard
i think more people are going to be excited about valk than would have been over walking in stations
i saw a flamespar raging in the twitch chat about how boring they thought valk was |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1119
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 14:40:20 -
[589] - Quote
With player generated assets, we could have walking in stations and walking in ships and walking on planets.
It is all just cosmetic, therefore not game breaking and would need CCP to moderate and assemble.
As for the ship with multiple people playing it .... that could be the new Supers and Titans.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Erin Naskingar
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 14:45:47 -
[590] - Quote
But we're Pod pilots, we don't walk around in our ships. We sit in a pod full of goo. |
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1119
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 14:48:12 -
[591] - Quote
Erin Naskingar wrote:But we're Pod pilots, we don't walk around in our ships. We sit in a pod full of goo. Even when docked? You do love that womb feel, don't you?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
892
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 14:50:57 -
[592] - Quote
Erin Naskingar wrote:But we're Pod pilots, we don't walk around in our ships. We sit in a pod full of goo.
Tsk, tsk, you should know by now, roleplayers don't let silly little things like the lore and background of the setting get in the way of a little cybering.
|
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
252
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 14:53:32 -
[593] - Quote
Sophie Mahler wrote:rather than walking in stations, I'd love to see walking in spaceships, much like SWG did back in the days with multiplayer spaceships, one would handle navigation, another would deal with missiles, others with turrets, another with repairs within the ships, we could imagine players dealing with EW stuff etc...
a class of multiplayer ships
we don't "have to" actually walk in the ship but it'd be nice.
they could also be used as places for councils meetings and whatnot.
and I'd love to see my toon walking the ship and watching outside.
it'd just be, IMO, more immersive
probably useless, but I like immersion
wtf would you want walking in ships? your a pod pilot, and immortal capsuleer as long as you have the clones. even in the lore there was 1 ship with a gantry built inside the ship and it made the ship cost more than a super carrier. Walking in station is fine, except everyone want star wars so they can run around and kill people in station. Lets also notice it takes the pod to save your skills, if you die outside of your pod what would be used for activating your new clone? the clone updates are already gone, so you would still need to refresh a skill save or you lose sp/skills from the last time the clone was refreshed. Yeah I want WIS and all but I see no need for the people that want to run around in station also killing everything, itll become as useless as THERA, god forbid if docking and going to WIS like the captain quarters was mandatory, people couldn't want to dock in some places like hek and such, imagine Jita.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
|
Gaellia Bonaventure
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2908
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 15:58:07 -
[594] - Quote
I want to walk in stations and eat corn dogs and buy shoes. Is that so wrong?
Bring your possibles.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8001
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 16:00:40 -
[595] - Quote
Gaellia Bonaventure wrote:I want to walk in stations and eat corn dogs and buy shoes. Is that so wrong?
Nothing in the least bit wrong with that. Well...except for the corn dog thing. That's not even food, for Christ's sake!
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2263
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 19:22:03 -
[596] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:given the whopping libelous fibs you spread about the eve community, individual players and ccp, i assume you've been working on an apology Its not libel if its substantially true and its for the benefit of the public rather than to harm the person or company being discussed. So no, no apology forthcoming. you can post your apology in your mmorpg thread anytime you're ready. the one titled 'don't play eve', posted right ater you ragequit, with the fibs about ccp and eve online players in it a reasonable person would also amend the op to issue corrections Everything I wrote in that post was correct in my mind. So, no definitely no apology forthcoming. CCP doesn't just have a responsibility, they have an obligation to deal with the harassment that I experienced.
They also have an obligation to allow players to vent their frustrations here on the forums - because we pay a fee to access these forums, they're not free to post or public. Had they allowed that to happen they wouldn't have players taking the only option available - creating posts on 3rd party sites.
So CCP likely owes me, and the other players who in good faith paid CCP fee's over the years and were then denied fair access to protection from harassment and posting privileges.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1507
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 19:33:54 -
[597] - Quote
Erin Naskingar wrote:But we're Pod pilots, we don't walk around in our ships. We sit in a pod full of goo.
And that will never change. The technology will never evolve. Because you know, it's sci-fi.
Seagull has already established a goal of allowing us to transfer our consciousness between EVE, DUST and Valkyrie clones Real Soon Now(TM), so they can have the lore writers work up an appropriate justification for whatever direction they want to take the technology.
Also, holograms are a thing in EVE.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6458
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 19:50:51 -
[598] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I don't recall saying I wasn't coming back. I recall saying I was leaving. Anyways I do what I like, its a human condition to change ones mind and I missed Walrus and the other sad lonely souls that live to troll these forums. I would have been back sooner but I bought a gym and have been busy with that. I noticed the majority of the things I suggested (cooldowns on supers, sov changes to make sov taking easier, the issue with extraordinary amounts of isk coming from null pve) have both been confirmed, implemented or soon to be implemented. So I thought I'd come back and try them out....
Welcome back.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2270
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 19:57:29 -
[599] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:I don't recall saying I wasn't coming back. I recall saying I was leaving. Anyways I do what I like, its a human condition to change ones mind and I missed Walrus and the other sad lonely souls that live to troll these forums. I would have been back sooner but I bought a gym and have been busy with that. I noticed the majority of the things I suggested (cooldowns on supers, sov changes to make sov taking easier, the issue with extraordinary amounts of isk coming from null pve) have both been confirmed, implemented or soon to be implemented. So I thought I'd come back and try them out.... Welcome back. Thanks and hi :)
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1457
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 20:04:19 -
[600] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:given the whopping libelous fibs you spread about the eve community, individual players and ccp, i assume you've been working on an apology Its not libel if its substantially true and its for the benefit of the public rather than to harm the person or company being discussed. So no, no apology forthcoming. you can post your apology in your mmorpg thread anytime you're ready. the one titled 'don't play eve', posted right ater you ragequit, with the fibs about ccp and eve online players in it a reasonable person would also amend the op to issue corrections Everything I wrote in that post was correct in my mind. So, no definitely no apology forthcoming. CCP doesn't just have a responsibility, they have an obligation to deal with the harassment that I experienced. They also have an obligation to allow players to vent their frustrations here on the forums - because we pay a fee to access these forums, they're not free to post or public. Had they allowed that to happen they wouldn't have players taking the only option available - creating posts on 3rd party sites. So CCP likely owes me, and the other players who in good faith paid CCP fee's over the years and were then denied fair access to protection from harassment and posting privileges.
You're so full of it.
The Tears Must Flow
|
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3860
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 20:07:38 -
[601] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Erin Naskingar wrote:But we're Pod pilots, we don't walk around in our ships. We sit in a pod full of goo. And that will never change. The technology will never evolve. Because you know, it's sci-fi. Seagull has already established a goal of allowing us to transfer our consciousness between EVE, DUST and Valkyrie clones Real Soon Now(TM), so they can have the lore writers work up an appropriate justification for whatever direction they want to take the technology. Also, holograms are a thing in EVE.
Why should I want to transfer my consciousness to a PS game (don't own a PS) or a Rift game (can't use VR devices at all)?
Why oh WHY should I feel happy to do that, instead of being able to play as my avatar in the game I'm paying?
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-'" " " " " " " " " "``~., . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ."-., . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ":, . . . . . . . .. .. /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ., . . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,} . . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.} . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:". . . ./ . . . . . . . /. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./ . . . . . . . /__.(. . ."~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./ . . . . . . /(_. . "~,_. . . .."~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/ . . . .. .{.._$;_. . ."=,_. . . ."-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~"; /. .. .} . . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . ."=-._. . .";,,./`. . /" . . . ./. .. ../ . . . .. . .`~,. . .."~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../ . . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-" . . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . / . . . . . . `~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....,__ ,,_. . . . . }.>-._. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-, . .. `=~-,__. . . `,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `. . . . . . ..__ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==`` . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3236
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 20:14:01 -
[602] - Quote
In the keynote, an odd statement was made. Some artwork developed for Wis was shown, and the statement was "This has not found it's way into the game, yet."
Yet. Like, it has not been totally discounted inside all of CCP.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2270
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 22:26:48 -
[603] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:given the whopping libelous fibs you spread about the eve community, individual players and ccp, i assume you've been working on an apology Its not libel if its substantially true and its for the benefit of the public rather than to harm the person or company being discussed. So no, no apology forthcoming. you can post your apology in your mmorpg thread anytime you're ready. the one titled 'don't play eve', posted right ater you ragequit, with the fibs about ccp and eve online players in it a reasonable person would also amend the op to issue corrections Everything I wrote in that post was correct in my mind. So, no definitely no apology forthcoming. CCP doesn't just have a responsibility, they have an obligation to deal with the harassment that I experienced. They also have an obligation to allow players to vent their frustrations here on the forums - because we pay a fee to access these forums, they're not free to post or public. Had they allowed that to happen they wouldn't have players taking the only option available - creating posts on 3rd party sites. So CCP likely owes me, and the other players who in good faith paid CCP fee's over the years and were then denied fair access to protection from harassment and posting privileges. You're so full of it. Yeah I'm bursting with so much truth I might be jesus.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
862
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 01:19:02 -
[604] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: I have plenty of time. I don't hate CCP or EvE. On the contrary it's my love of this game that causes me to come back every once in a while in the hope they'll wise up and get rid of the toxic environment they have deliberately fostered.
If they clean the turds out of the sandbox it might become attractive once again ...
Well it happened, toxic players left the game.. but looks like one of them is back now... will you threaten us in RL with your dog again?
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12177
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 01:24:10 -
[605] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: I have plenty of time. I don't hate CCP or EvE. On the contrary it's my love of this game that causes me to come back every once in a while in the hope they'll wise up and get rid of the toxic environment they have deliberately fostered.
If they clean the turds out of the sandbox it might become attractive once again ...
Well it happened, toxic players left the game.. but looks like one of them is back now... will you threaten us in RL with your dog again?
Soon to be followed by the sternly worded letter.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2271
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 01:41:21 -
[606] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: I have plenty of time. I don't hate CCP or EvE. On the contrary it's my love of this game that causes me to come back every once in a while in the hope they'll wise up and get rid of the toxic environment they have deliberately fostered.
If they clean the turds out of the sandbox it might become attractive once again ...
Well it happened, toxic players left the game.. but looks like one of them is back now... will you threaten us in RL with your dog again? Nah I had him put down as he was no longer of use to me. I left security and bought a gym.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1121
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 01:56:47 -
[607] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:In the keynote, an odd statement was made. Some artwork developed for Wis was shown, and the statement was "This has not found it's way into the game, yet."
Yet. Like, it has not been totally discounted inside all of CCP. I think CCP might be leaning toward combining their games. I really hope they are. Proper Dust deployments and using those players to further things in EVE would add so much depth to the game.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6466
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 16:16:10 -
[608] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:In the keynote, an odd statement was made. Some artwork developed for Wis was shown, and the statement was "This has not found it's way into the game, yet."
Yet. Like, it has not been totally discounted inside all of CCP. I think CCP might be leaning toward combining their games. I really hope they are. Proper Dust deployments and using those players to further things in EVE would add so much depth to the game.
But depth means nothing to the hordes of aspergian min-maxers with one eye on their killboards or wallets shouting "muh ISK" or "muh stats" every time some change is proposed.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
900
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 16:24:09 -
[609] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:In the keynote, an odd statement was made. Some artwork developed for Wis was shown, and the statement was "This has not found it's way into the game, yet."
Yet. Like, it has not been totally discounted inside all of CCP. I think CCP might be leaning toward combining their games. I really hope they are. Proper Dust deployments and using those players to further things in EVE would add so much depth to the game.
This here, is what is commonly referred to as "setting yourself up for disappointment".
C'mon guys, we do this every year at Fanfest; usually we are let down by fully explained features that never show up, but stretching an overly optimistic interpretation of a completely innocent phrase, is just hurting yourself.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1124
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 16:28:18 -
[610] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:In the keynote, an odd statement was made. Some artwork developed for Wis was shown, and the statement was "This has not found it's way into the game, yet."
Yet. Like, it has not been totally discounted inside all of CCP. I think CCP might be leaning toward combining their games. I really hope they are. Proper Dust deployments and using those players to further things in EVE would add so much depth to the game. This here, is what is commonly referred to as "setting yourself up for disappointment". C'mon guys, we do this every year at Fanfest; usually we are let down by fully explained features that never show up, but stretching an overly optimistic interpretation of a completely innocent phrase, is just hurting yourself. http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/6/5682670/eve-united-ccp-fanfest
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10262
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 16:55:27 -
[611] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Erm, ok, so why did you link that? At this point it's pretty clear that other than a DUST style link between EVE and Legion and a single launcher (and thus character), the 3 games look to remain seperated.
This can most clearly be seen with they way Legion is introducing 'fighters' that aren't available in EVE and that do things differently than can be done in EVE. These games will at best have the "Based in the EVE universe" tag.
Aralyn is right, you types really do set yourself up for disappointment. I live firmly in the "that might be nice, I'll believe it when I see it" camp and thus am overall less disappointed and frustrated with EVE than almost every WiS type i know. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
901
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 17:57:50 -
[612] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote: This here, is what is commonly referred to as "setting yourself up for disappointment".
C'mon guys, we do this every year at Fanfest; usually we are let down by fully explained features that never show up, but stretching an overly optimistic interpretation of a completely innocent phrase, is just hurting yourself.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/6/5682670/eve-united-ccp-fanfest
Given that article is a year old, I'd call that proving my point, not detracting from it
You have to look at what CCP as a whole is doing, not what an isolated comment from a probably drunk developer, in the middle of a fanfest high says.
I mean, we have all evidence immediately on hand with the sov revamp on the table. Take a look at it, does even a single element of the sov revamp move nearer or further away from Dust/Legion and Valkyrie involvement? It's further. I don't know about you, but when people talked about Dust/Legion integration, I was visioning assault teams capturing planets and stations while the ships battled on the undock to cut off or reinforce the ground teams... 'freeport' modes and random nodes popping up in adjacent systems doesn't strike me as setting a stage for that. No, its a purely EvE spaceship mechanic; I doubt even a single developer said "is it worth making a system that we can substitute Dust/Legion battles for down the line". I bet it wasn't brought up, or even thought of long enough to be dismissed.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1132
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 02:02:20 -
[613] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote: This here, is what is commonly referred to as "setting yourself up for disappointment".
C'mon guys, we do this every year at Fanfest; usually we are let down by fully explained features that never show up, but stretching an overly optimistic interpretation of a completely innocent phrase, is just hurting yourself.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/6/5682670/eve-united-ccp-fanfest Given that article is a year old, I'd call that proving my point, not detracting from it You have to look at what CCP as a whole is doing, not what an isolated comment from a probably drunk developer, in the middle of a fanfest high says. I mean, we have all evidence immediately on hand with the sov revamp on the table. Take a look at it, does even a single element of the sov revamp move nearer or further away from Dust/Legion and Valkyrie involvement? It's further. I don't know about you, but when people talked about Dust/Legion integration, I was visioning assault teams capturing planets and stations while the ships battled on the undock to cut off or reinforce the ground teams... 'freeport' modes and random nodes popping up in adjacent systems doesn't strike me as setting a stage for that. No, its a purely EvE spaceship mechanic; I doubt even a single developer said "is it worth making a system that we can substitute Dust/Legion battles for down the line". I bet it wasn't brought up, or even thought of long enough to be dismissed. They might be approaching this from a Dust dev team perspective. Also, they might have it dedicated as 20% time (1/5 days a week) to one of the smaller teams.
The new way they are developing stuff, it can all be happening concurrently.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23288
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 10:19:20 -
[614] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I have plenty of time. I don't hate CCP or EvE. On the contrary it's my love of this game that causes me to come back every once in a while in the hope they'll wise up and get rid of the toxic environment they have deliberately fostered. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Your posting history, both here and on external sites, says otherwise.
Quote:If they clean the turds out of the sandbox it might become attractive once again to people wanting to play rather than game the game. When you lied about quitting, one of the biggest turds in the game flushed itself down the pan, like any persistent turd you've managed to finagle yourself back around the U-bend and now we're being haunted by a stinking, lying floater.
Quote:When I criticise CCP it's because I saw what a great game they had prior too Ovuer leaving and I've watched as it and it's reputation was demolished by subsequent lead devs. Bollocks, you criticised CCP because they wouldn't pander to your wants over the the needs of their business model.
Quote:Everything I wrote in that post was correct in my mind. So, no definitely no apology forthcoming. CCP doesn't just have a responsibility, they have an obligation to deal with the harassment that I experienced.
They also have an obligation to allow players to vent their frustrations here on the forums - because we pay a fee to access these forums, they're not free to post or public. The harassment you suffered only existed in your addled little mind, as such CCP had no obligation at all beyond possibly recommending that you seek help.
Partially correct, you have to be subbed to post, but the forums themselves are publicly accessible regardless of being subbed or not, albeit in read only form.
Quote:Had they allowed that to happen they wouldn't have players taking the only option available - creating posts on 3rd party sites.
So CCP likely owes me, and the other players who in good faith paid CCP fee's over the years and were then denied fair access to protection from harassment and posting privileges. CCP owe you nothing, your posting on third party sites was nothing more than sour grapes on your part.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3863
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 11:14:57 -
[615] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:In the keynote, an odd statement was made. Some artwork developed for Wis was shown, and the statement was "This has not found it's way into the game, yet."
Yet. Like, it has not been totally discounted inside all of CCP.
It's not been discounted because otherwise they should write it off their financial statements, as they did with WoD. So far WiS is "something we spent money on and we think it may give us money someday so it's not a loss -and prove us wrong if you dare", but as long as they stop using it and agree it's a wreck (say, by removing the CQs) it becomes "something we spent our money and lost it all so there go our yearly profits (again)".
Financially speaking, CCP won't derecognize the WiS assets for as long as they can avoid to.
For everything else, it's facts, not words, what speak the truth.
I'm still processing and waiting for additional Fanfest content (i.e. roundtables), but so far it looks as we are not an issue, in every sense. CCP can live without us and that's exactly what they are doing.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1147
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:18:35 -
[616] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I'm still processing and waiting for additional Fanfest content (i.e. roundtables), but so far it looks as we are not an issue, in every sense. CCP can live without us and that's exactly what they are doing. Yup, other priorities.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3863
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:50:50 -
[617] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I'm still processing and waiting for additional Fanfest content (i.e. roundtables), but so far it looks as we are not an issue, in every sense. CCP can live without us and that's exactly what they are doing. Yup, other priorities.
I was looking for a word and eventually I've found it:
Expendable.
WiS was expendable. Avatars are expendable. We are expendable.
And so we are spent.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1494
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 00:11:14 -
[618] - Quote
I guess we can finally bury and forget idea of WiS in EVE after mehfest where the "uber announce" - unsurprisingly - was structures redesign (which is still almost a year away).
Fortunately, new sci-fi game start in Thursday and avatars there have quality comparable to Incarna so for me waiting is almost over \o/
(no, you cant have my stuff yet but when I'll be sure - in couple months - then maybe) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10314
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 00:36:06 -
[619] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:In the keynote, an odd statement was made. Some artwork developed for Wis was shown, and the statement was "This has not found it's way into the game, yet."
Yet. Like, it has not been totally discounted inside all of CCP. It's not been discounted because otherwise they should write it off their financial statements, as they did with WoD. So far WiS is "something we spent money on and we think it may give us money someday so it's not a loss -and prove us wrong if you dare", but as long as they stop using it and agree it's a wreck (say, by removing the CQs) it becomes "something we spent our money and lost it all so there go our yearly profits (again)". Financially speaking, CCP won't derecognize the WiS assets for as long as they can avoid to. For everything else, it's facts, not words, what speak the truth. I'm still processing and waiting for additional Fanfest content (i.e. roundtables), but so far it looks as we are not an issue, in every sense. CCP can live without us and that's exactly what they are doing.
And yet, here you still are, looking at the rest of us like WE are crazy after YEARS of pointing out the exact same ting lol. CCP isn't doing walking in stations in the foreseeable future, and they aren't doing so not only because it's the right development course for EVE right now (since they are doing an EVE based game for people who want to walk, called Legion), but also because a lot of them are telling them (in some cases to their faces at fanfest) that concentrating on the core game is what they should always be doing.
How you can possibly be better about something someone has been telling you for years is just impossible to understand.
Tarpedo wrote:I guess we can finally bury and forget idea of WiS in EVE after mehfest where the "uber announce" - unsurprisingly - was structures redesign (which is still almost a year away).
Fortunately, new sci-fi game start in Thursday and avatars there have quality comparable to Incarna so for me waiting is almost over \o/
(no, you cant have my stuff yet but when I'll be sure - in couple months - then maybe)
YEARS lol.
And I have no more fervent wish than to see WiS fans go play something they actually like rather than being delusional about EVE. If history is the judge though, it won't matter, the same people made the same claims about the Star Wars games (SWG and SWTOR) and Star Trek Online, and yet here they still are in EVE despite the fact that sci-fi MMOs with walking avatars already exist.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1147
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 02:21:43 -
[620] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:YEARS lol.
"Hi CCP.
Remember this feature? Well, I am interested in it and look, some others are also. Maybe now that it has been years we can revisit it and get it right? I even have a little bandaid mechanics that would takes us a big step forward, not to mention and idea to get us to work for you - for free to flesh this feature out.
Yours with hope,
Jen."
Jenn aSide: "Hurr hurr, it is not being taken seriously or developed! lol lol rolflmaololocopterzzz!!1!"
"We know. Now run along and find another thread to spam with verbose inane tripe."
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10332
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 03:34:25 -
[621] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:YEARS lol. "Hi CCP. Remember this feature? Well, I am interested in it and look, some others are also. Maybe now that it has been years we can revisit it and get it right? I even have a little bandaid mechanics that would takes us a big step forward, not to mention and idea to get us to work for you - for free to flesh this feature out. Yours with hope, Jen." Jenn aSide: "Hurr hurr, it is not being taken seriously or developed! lol lol rolflmaololocopterzzz!!1!" "We know. Now run along and find another thread to spam with verbose inane tripe."
And that's the problem with you people. How is objective reality "tripe"? did you read the posts I was applying to, they both expressed frustration and SURPRISE at the fact that at fanfest the company that said years ago and several times since that they were no plans for WiS...has no plans for WiS.
Your reply is the exact thing I was just saying, you act like I'M the one that's crazy when I'm not the one in denial about anything. I mean, that in and of itself bloody crazy, so bloody crazy that's it's enough to get me using the word Bloody as If I weren't one of them 'Colonials" lol.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1148
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 03:47:08 -
[622] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:... so bloody crazy that's it's enough to get me using the word Bloody as If I weren't one of them 'Colonials" lol.
Here is an example of where you spew out useless words.Quote:... so bloody crazy that is it is enough to get me using the word Bloody as If I weren't one of them "Colonials" lol. I am going to guess and pressume that you are trying to say the following:
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4345
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 04:54:17 -
[623] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:I guess we can finally bury and forget idea of WiS in EVE after mehfest where the "uber announce" - unsurprisingly - was structures redesign (which is still almost a year away). you can't bury and forget the idea of avatar gameplay because it was dead, buried and cremated a long time ago |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12241
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 04:57:08 -
[624] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tarpedo wrote:I guess we can finally bury and forget idea of WiS in EVE after mehfest where the "uber announce" - unsurprisingly - was structures redesign (which is still almost a year away). you can't bury and forget the idea of avatar gameplay because it was dead, buried and cremated a long time ago
The problem is that we haven't undertaken the quest to strike it's name from the Book of Remembrance, where the gods record all things known by Mankind. If we can defeat the seven Celestial Guardians on the Deific Stairway, we can obtain the jewel encrusted tome and finally lay this great evil to rest once and for all.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3863
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 07:42:26 -
[625] - Quote
As a side note, was there any news on Project Legion?
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16182
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 08:17:59 -
[626] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:In the keynote, an odd statement was made. Some artwork developed for Wis was shown, and the statement was "This has not found it's way into the game, yet."
Yet. Like, it has not been totally discounted inside all of CCP. It's not been discounted because otherwise they should write it off their financial statements, as they did with WoD. So far WiS is "something we spent money on and we think it may give us money someday so it's not a loss -and prove us wrong if you dare", but as long as they stop using it and agree it's a wreck (say, by removing the CQs) it becomes "something we spent our money and lost it all so there go our yearly profits (again)". Financially speaking, CCP won't derecognize the WiS assets for as long as they can avoid to. For everything else, it's facts, not words, what speak the truth.I'm still processing and waiting for additional Fanfest content (i.e. roundtables), but so far it looks as we are not an issue, in every sense. CCP can live without us and that's exactly what they are doing.
Well that's exactly what I've been trying to get across to you for the last few years now, but well done for stubbornly and painfully insisting on working it out on your own, I guess.
Well, let's get into the Mysterymobile and start working on the next puzzle. You can drive!
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1602
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 08:33:08 -
[627] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:As a side note, was there any news on Project Legion?
Round table about Dust (whatisthat?) was completely void of any Project Legion noise let alone news. (Someone filmed that round table) |
per
Terpene Conglomerate
45
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 09:32:23 -
[628] - Quote
you reminded me this video with your link ;o) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pg1dzAvL2M |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3863
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:08:48 -
[629] - Quote
Meh. You should see what video does CCP have at their corporate site:
No kidding, retrieved March 23rd 2015
With a pair.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1152
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 18:56:50 -
[630] - Quote
per wrote:ITTigerClawIK wrote:When anyone mentions walking in stations i will always fondly remember this VERY OLD Gem of a video of some early work done on WIS and hated they started again from scratch and and did a whole new engine which is just gonna be a thing if they keep trying to use the latest with everything cause things are progressing so fast atm tech and software wise that they just need to say " we are going to use this and stick to it" so something can get done instead of wasting so much time and effort. you reminded me this video with your link ;o) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pg1dzAvL2M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aRor905cCw
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
|
Gevlin
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
261
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 22:09:19 -
[631] - Quote
The only way I see WIS happening would be through the VR Labs first starting with the exploring your own ship and working out from there.
Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again.
|
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 00:01:43 -
[632] - Quote
I'm no fan of WiS. I played starttrek online for a few months and all the walking drove me insane. The most exciting thing that happened was a dude trying to kill me in station. Since you cant do that, I decided to play along and return the favor. We "danced" for about 10 minutes. All I could think about was how another game allowed me to just click on a few buttons, buy stuff and be on my merry way creating mayhem and chaos
HOWEVER
CARBON
I'd want to put that in my game too. They should have asked some of the people on this forum to make the avatars tho.
As far as I'm concerned, yay for Carbon, yay for keeping the door closed. |
Kenn
McKae Industries and Research
1
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 04:50:07 -
[633] - Quote
From what I gathered and from what came next I assumed walking in stations became dust 514 which is a slap in the face to Eve Online players. I read news posts of the revolt which had a lot more to do with charging for content aka squeezing players for more money and less to do with the actual content introduced though it was a part of it.
Regardless of what happened or why Eve Online is about to get a shake up. A lot of players (myself included) play this for the sci fi aspect of it. To me the game is so "distorted" that it lost it's appeal as a sci fi game. That's my personal issue and does not reflect the opinions of other players who play.
Now Star Citizen is on the scene and will be opening it's doors soon along with a few other titles coming out. Players who "put up with" eve online for lack of a better alternative are going to migrate and membership is going to drop. The game will be left with a lot of PvP players who really like the game mechanics and maybe a few traders who like the market while the rest vacate their accounts. A membership drop like that will be bad for Eve Online so CCP has to step up their game here and offer more.
For those of you who don't know what I am talking about type Star Citizen into google and check out what is up and coming. This is a kickstarter game that has serious potential. The game mechanics are radically different. There is a lack of a skill based system for example or they will minimize any skills required. So Star Citizen is NOT Eve Online. But you can pilot a capital ship and have players join your crew carrying out different functions aboard ship. Seriously there will be a heck of a draw to it.
There are other titles too I haven't checked out yet but I heard they were good and they will add to the competition to a market Eve Online dominated for over a decade. If they don't step up their game that competition will roll right over them.
Walking in stations and the hoopla that was supposed to go with it would be a great direction for keeping the player base. Adding that interactive immersive experience will go a long way in retaining accounts and drawing new players and maybe even old ones who left a while ago. But it may be too little too late. I don't know. Many who are fanatical about this game say no way. I think they underestimate the potential of these new titles. There is some very impressive stuff coming up that blows Eve Online away in it's current form.
I would like to go back in time and point out the way Eve Online arrived. I was playing a game called "Earth and Beyond" at the time which was a big deal when it ran. Eve Online showed up and players flocked from one title to the other. The game retained a dedicated base of players but then the Devs quit and decided to close it. Eve Online had a lot to do with that games demise. These new titles could repeat history here unless the Devs at CCP get their act together and start putting out the features they announced years ago and stop "Tweaking " the game to death.
When carriers came out and super carriers where whispers in player factories fighters were the thing to train for. A player could have up to 10 or 15 fighters I think the way the skills and ship bonuses were set up. Then the Devs nerfed it saying players can't use all those fighters they were too powerful so they came up with the absurd system of assigning fighters to other players to allow full deployment as along as the player who launched them wasn't in control.
Just now they removed that assignment capabiltity in the Scylla update. It is changed over to the drone options of assist. I haven't used it but it sounds like "No One" is controlling the drone or it just does a script. It may be a fantastic feature I don't know but either they screwed it up even more or they basically went back to the same thing they had in the beginning and wasted a lot of time and resources doing it. Super carriers became ever more distorted (some say useless) in the process over the years. They could have just left that alone and gotten to work on other more pressing issues and or developing new features and content.
And it is this cyclical idiocy that is killing Eve Online.
Granted this is my opinion. I know many will disagree and I am only calling it as I see it. I am an avid gamer and I know good stuff from bad. I stuck with Eve Online based on it's potential and for lack of a better game that could seriously compete with it as no one seemed to even try. Well now a few companies are trying and seriously making headway. I see a lot of not just good stuff but better stuff coming. Unless CCP gets on the ball I don't see a future for Eve Online. The times ahead it faces will not be like the past it enjoyed. Based on this latest update my impression is that the Devs don't seem worried or they don't care.
Let's hope I am completely wrong about all of this.
|
Jadek Kin
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
5
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 05:55:57 -
[634] - Quote
Kenn wrote:From what I gathered and from what came next I assumed walking in stations became dust 514 which is a slap in the face to Eve Online players. I read news posts of the revolt which had a lot more to do with charging for content aka squeezing players for more money and less to do with the actual content introduced though it was a part of it. And part of that experience is the Event Horizon Lounge on PlayStation Home which is closing one week from now (March 31st). |
Brutus Le'montac
249
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 06:30:39 -
[635] - Quote
why walk in stations when you can:
Walk on sunshine?:)
Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!
|
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
252
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 09:26:48 -
[636] - Quote
Kenn wrote:From what I gathered and from what came next I assumed walking in stations became dust 514 which is a slap in the face to Eve Online players. I read news posts of the revolt which had a lot more to do with charging for content aka squeezing players for more money and less to do with the actual content introduced though it was a part of it.
Regardless of what happened or why Eve Online is about to get a shake up. A lot of players (myself included) play this for the sci fi aspect of it. To me the game is so "distorted" that it lost it's appeal as a sci fi game. That's my personal issue and does not reflect the opinions of other players who play.
Now Star Citizen is on the scene and will be opening it's doors soon along with a few other titles coming out. Players who "put up with" eve online for lack of a better alternative are going to migrate and membership is going to drop. The game will be left with a lot of PvP players who really like the game mechanics and maybe a few traders who like the market while the rest vacate their accounts. A membership drop like that will be bad for Eve Online so CCP has to step up their game here and offer more.
For those of you who don't know what I am talking about type Star Citizen into google and check out what is up and coming. This is a kickstarter game that has serious potential. The game mechanics are radically different. There is a lack of a skill based system for example or they will minimize any skills required. So Star Citizen is NOT Eve Online. But you can pilot a capital ship and have players join your crew carrying out different functions aboard ship. Seriously there will be a heck of a draw to it.
There are other titles too I haven't checked out yet but I heard they were good and they will add to the competition to a market Eve Online dominated for over a decade. If they don't step up their game that competition will roll right over them.
Walking in stations and the hoopla that was supposed to go with it would be a great direction for keeping the player base. Adding that interactive immersive experience will go a long way in retaining accounts and drawing new players and maybe even old ones who left a while ago. But it may be too little too late. I don't know. Many who are fanatical about this game say no way. I think they underestimate the potential of these new titles. There is some very impressive stuff coming up that blows Eve Online away in it's current form.
I would like to go back in time and point out the way Eve Online arrived. I was playing a game called "Earth and Beyond" at the time which was a big deal when it ran. Eve Online showed up and players flocked from one title to the other. The game retained a dedicated base of players but then the Devs quit and decided to close it. Eve Online had a lot to do with that games demise. These new titles could repeat history here unless the Devs at CCP get their act together and start putting out the features they announced years ago and stop "Tweaking " the game to death.
When carriers came out and super carriers where whispers in player factories fighters were the thing to train for. A player could have up to 10 or 15 fighters I think the way the skills and ship bonuses were set up. Then the Devs nerfed it saying players can't use all those fighters they were too powerful so they came up with the absurd system of assigning fighters to other players to allow full deployment as along as the player who launched them wasn't in control.
Just now they removed that assignment capabiltity in the Scylla update. It is changed over to the drone options of assist. I haven't used it but it sounds like "No One" is controlling the drone or it just does a script. It may be a fantastic feature I don't know but either they screwed it up even more or they basically went back to the same thing they had in the beginning and wasted a lot of time and resources doing it. Super carriers became ever more distorted (some say useless) in the process over the years. They could have just left that alone and gotten to work on other more pressing issues and or developing new features and content.
And it is this cyclical idiocy that is killing Eve Online.
Granted this is my opinion. I know many will disagree and I am only calling it as I see it. I am an avid gamer and I know good stuff from bad. I stuck with Eve Online based on it's potential and for lack of a better game that could seriously compete with it as no one seemed to even try. Well now a few companies are trying and seriously making headway. I see a lot of not just good stuff but better stuff coming. Unless CCP gets on the ball I don't see a future for Eve Online. The times ahead it faces will not be like the past it enjoyed. Based on this latest update my impression is that the Devs don't seem worried or they don't care.
Let's hope I am completely wrong about all of this.
TL;DR check out star citizen which is going to kill eve because you can walk around.
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2284
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 10:04:35 -
[637] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:YEARS lol. "Hi CCP. Remember this feature? Well, I am interested in it and look, some others are also. Maybe now that it has been years we can revisit it and get it right? I even have a little bandaid mechanics that would takes us a big step forward, not to mention and idea to get us to work for you - for free to flesh this feature out. Yours with hope, Jen." Jenn aSide: "Hurr hurr, it is not being taken seriously or developed! lol lol rolflmaololocopterzzz!!1!" "We know. Now run along and find another thread to spam with verbose inane tripe." And that's the problem with you people. How is objective reality "tripe"? did you read the posts I was applying to, they both expressed frustration and SURPRISE at the fact that at fanfest the company that said years ago and several times since that they were no plans for WiS...has no plans for WiS. Your reply is the exact thing I was just saying, you act like I'M the one that's crazy when I'm not the one in denial about anything. I mean, that in and of itself bloody crazy, so bloody crazy that's it's enough to get me using the word Bloody as If I weren't one of them 'Colonials" lol. The surprise is likely based on CCP's inability to understand its pandering to a negative sum segment of its player-base. Seem to have a love for the cancer that's slowing damaging their game and subsequently subscriptions numbers.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
118
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 10:04:36 -
[638] - Quote
Kenn wrote:For those of you who don't know what I am talking about type Star Citizen into google and check out what is up and coming. This is a kickstarter game that has serious potential. You really think there are EVE players, who haven't heard about Star Citizen yet? |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
252
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 10:40:04 -
[639] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:Kenn wrote:For those of you who don't know what I am talking about type Star Citizen into google and check out what is up and coming. This is a kickstarter game that has serious potential. You really think there are EVE players, who haven't heard about Star Citizen yet?
sounds like a scammy marketing stunt
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4352
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 12:01:49 -
[640] - Quote
swtor is the eve online killer |
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
328
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 12:10:11 -
[641] - Quote
Brutus Le'montac wrote:why walk in stations when you can:
Walk on sunshine?:)
WOOOOO O!
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Gaellia Bonaventure
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2922
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 12:38:17 -
[642] - Quote
Kenn wrote:
For those of you who don't know what I am talking about type Star Citizen into google and check out what is up and coming. This is a kickstarter game that has serious potential. The game mechanics are radically different. There is a lack of a skill based system for example or they will minimize any skills required. So Star Citizen is NOT Eve Online. But you can pilot a capital ship and have players join your crew carrying out different functions aboard ship. Seriously there will be a heck of a draw to it.
Chris Roberts, please go.
Bring your possibles.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3410
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 14:11:45 -
[643] - Quote
Brutus Le'montac wrote:why walk in stations when you can:
Walk on sunshine?:)
Haw haw haw
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1155
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 02:02:32 -
[644] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Brutus Le'montac wrote:why walk in stations when you can: Walk on sunshine?:) Haw haw haw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BglEyv5O2Y
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3412
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 07:34:25 -
[645] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Brutus Le'montac wrote:why walk in stations when you can: Walk on sunshine?:) Haw haw haw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BglEyv5O2Y
Come on CCP.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1156
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 13:29:20 -
[646] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Brutus Le'montac wrote:why walk in stations when you can: Walk on sunshine?:) Haw haw haw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BglEyv5O2Y Come on CCP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soa3gO7tL-c
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10412
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 13:30:42 -
[647] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L0MK7qz13bU#t=64 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3414
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 13:55:20 -
[648] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Oh, but you can't.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1158
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 17:05:31 -
[649] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L0MK7qz13bU#t=64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fdcIwHKd_sIshtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHRyMcH6WMM
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Golden Member
Abstergo Systems
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 18:33:33 -
[650] - Quote
I personally feel WiS could be used to bridge the gap between the VR and Dust/Liegon zones with the eve online universe. Imagine being able to brief your soliders before battle from inside eve. You could be a hologram inside of the room being streamed in. It's sounding a tad off but the idea would be to bridge WiS into the EVE Universe so that everyone feels they are part of the same shard.
Just an idea. Not sure if it's any good..
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
264
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 19:37:15 -
[651] - Quote
Golden Member wrote:I personally feel WiS could be used to bridge the gap between the VR and Dust/Liegon zones with the eve online universe. Imagine being able to brief your soliders before battle from inside eve. You could be a hologram inside of the room being streamed in. It's sounding a tad off but the idea would be to bridge WiS into the EVE Universe so that everyone feels they are part of the same shard.
Just an idea. Not sure if it's any good..
I dunno what your bridging, that feature would be logical to be featured with either valkyrie or legion, not eve because it doesnt provide anything content related
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1158
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:43:24 -
[652] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Golden Member wrote:I personally feel WiS could be used to bridge the gap between the VR and Dust/Liegon zones with the eve online universe. Imagine being able to brief your soliders before battle from inside eve. You could be a hologram inside of the room being streamed in. It's sounding a tad off but the idea would be to bridge WiS into the EVE Universe so that everyone feels they are part of the same shard. Just an idea. Not sure if it's any good..
I dunno what your bridging, that feature would be logical to be featured with either valkyrie or legion, not eve because it doesnt provide anything content related There is huge potential to add layers of depths to all three games by linking them.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3416
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 07:35:31 -
[653] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Some aren't born to fit.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1162
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 10:37:09 -
[654] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1FrqwZyKw
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Mike Whiite
Geuzen Inc
372
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 10:44:41 -
[655] - Quote
A public observation deck, would be a useful addition to EVE on man levels.
an area that overviews undocking or even better 360 degrees from a stations tower.
it would redefine docking games, it will make forming and joining corporations easier for new players, or anyone actually, because you have the ability to see who is there and has time to speak with you.
I would remove local or delay local to docked/ undocked players from each other.
Being docked up because of war for example where one of the most boring sessions I ever had, especially in smaller corpses and alliances where whole time zones became of limited because one corp had his peak in that particular time zone almost killed the game for me.
being able to see (though not know for certain, due to delayed local to stations) to go out or meet people while waiting for corp mates would have had me logged in longer during those wars.
not to mention the intel that it could bring by just observing the docking habits of players
and it's a nice screen saver :P
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
266
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 10:51:24 -
[656] - Quote
how do you watch fleets of 50-100+ undocking when fc says "fleet undock" its not like undocking is qeued
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
969
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 10:51:46 -
[657] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:A public observation deck, would be a useful addition to EVE on man levels.
an area that overviews undocking or even better 360 degrees from a stations tower.
Because the Captains Quarters doesn't melt graphics cards enough
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Mike Whiite
Geuzen Inc
372
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 11:34:23 -
[658] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Mike Whiite wrote:A public observation deck, would be a useful addition to EVE on man levels.
an area that overviews undocking or even better 360 degrees from a stations tower.
Because the Captains Quarters doesn't melt graphics cards enough
not mine, and that one isn't even considered new, you could tone your graphics down by the way.
Lan Wang wrote: how do you watch fleets of 50-100+ undocking when fc says "fleet undock" its not like undocking is qeued
aside from seeing them actually undock? should you be given more? you could do something with a undock log if you really wanted to, though maybe you should leave that kind of intel to the covert ops guys in grid.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3417
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 14:04:15 -
[659] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Just as it comes.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1162
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 20:22:48 -
[660] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: While showering ... to my CQ
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3418
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 21:05:50 -
[661] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
It's not the taking, it's the giving. I voted you with 2 acounts.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1175
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 00:33:52 -
[662] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ivkM0ChSo don't bother next year. The elections are rigged amongst a minority. The majority I spoke with have no clue their even is a CSM.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Keyer
STERNENGARDE
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 17:47:46 -
[663] - Quote
I would like to see Walking in Stations, as other mentioned, it adds a layer of depth to the game. Eve is a Special game because there are so many small things that makes Eve a pleasure to play. It also gives the RP community a boost. I Imagine things like:
Sitting in the bar with a Mate to drink a beer after a hard fight. Meeting someone new just because he is sitting next to you or something like this.
I think they should give it a try. |
Hal Morsh
Fruidian Logic Dramatic Exit.
274
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 00:09:50 -
[664] - Quote
Jadek Kin wrote:Kenn wrote:From what I gathered and from what came next I assumed walking in stations became dust 514 which is a slap in the face to Eve Online players. And part of that experience is the Event Horizon Lounge on PlayStation Home which is closing one week from now (March 31st).
What?? Walking in stations existed?..... But not in EVE?
That's just cruel CCP...
Maybe they should just toss those assets into EVE for those new corporate hub structures. To maybe test it's actual popularity instead of leaving it to (us) the forum minority babbling at each other to indicate.
It's also funny, the argument given for no walking in stations is it wouldn't add meaningfull gameplay. Also the bigger argument about it is they would waste development time. but heres the kicker 'They already did".
So CCP wasted development time according to the anti-WiS crowd and the WiS crowd didn't get it. So both sides just lost. I'm sad.
ISD Dorrim > Hey, a fedo!
Thread closed.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1177
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 01:29:37 -
[665] - Quote
Keyer wrote:Sitting in the bar with a Mate to drink a beer after a hard fight.. Mmmm.... yum these virtual drinks taste fantastic! Oooo ... my head is spinning from too many 0s and not enough 1s!
Go has been scripted into Second Life by amateurs. I bet Chess is open source by now.
Imagine sitting in a station, discussing your next war strategy while playing Chess with your FC and all the pieces are mini ships.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Lienzo
Amanuensis
63
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 05:21:53 -
[666] - Quote
If stations were ever phased out, would there be a use for planetary ports? Would you want to see the mothballed bridge of your ship, pay a visit to vast refineries and vaster warehouses, or gaze out of the deck of an extraction operation on a gas planet?
It would be quite something if Legion was a complex economic simulator with fps as a module within it. Their economies are already linked, so we can really only go deeper down the rabbit hole at this point.
Exploiting the EVE voice abilities in shared environments, where our avatars can meet face to face, could very likely lead to emergent content the likes of which have no comparison in any existing virtual world. I remember when Planetside 2 prox chat let us taunt or commiserate with the enemy at the release, but it just seemed to go downhill after that was removed. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3437
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 12:49:38 -
[667] - Quote
Lienzo wrote:If stations were ever phased out, would there be a use for planetary ports? Would you want to see the mothballed bridge of your ship, pay a visit to vast refineries and vaster warehouses, or gaze out of the deck of an extraction operation on a gas planet?
It would be quite something if Legion was a complex economic simulator with fps as a module within it. Their economies are already linked, so we can really only go deeper down the rabbit hole at this point.
Exploiting the EVE voice abilities in shared environments, where our avatars can meet face to face, could very likely lead to emergent content the likes of which have no comparison in any existing virtual world. I remember when Planetside 2 prox chat let us taunt or commiserate with the enemy at the release, but it just seemed to go downhill after that was removed.
Well, unless I'm mistaken, there wasn't any news on Legion at the Fanfest. And I don't even know who is supposed to be developing it. CCP Shanghai, maybe? Inhouse at Reykjavik? Newcastle is making Valkyrie. San Francisco and Atlanta are... well, don't know what they are, maybe something related to White Wolf. Also there is a new office in Akureyri, accidentally the place where Dr. Eyjogg went to work at the local university.
But as long as I (we) know, Project Legion could be a PR stunt to soothe the investors after derecognizing WoD.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
|
tasman devil
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
42
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 16:15:03 -
[668] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Jadek Kin wrote:Kenn wrote:From what I gathered and from what came next I assumed walking in stations became dust 514 which is a slap in the face to Eve Online players. And part of that experience is the Event Horizon Lounge on PlayStation Home which is closing one week from now (March 31st). What?? Walking in stations existed?..... But not in EVE? That's just cruel CCP... Maybe they should just toss those assets into EVE for those new corporate hub structures. To maybe test it's actual popularity instead of leaving it to (us) the forum minority babbling at each other to indicate. It's also funny, the argument given for no walking in stations is it wouldn't add meaningfull gameplay. Also the bigger argument about it is they would waste development time. but heres the kicker 'They already did". So CCP wasted development time according to the anti-WiS crowd and the WiS crowd didn't get it. So both sides just lost. I'm sad. WOW That video!
I seems to me, that most of the code was already there. Why on Earth (pun intended) did they witheld these in then EVE client is beside me.
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10509
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 16:25:22 -
[669] - Quote
tasman devil wrote: WOW That video!
I seems to me, that most of the code was already there. Why on Earth (pun intended) did they witheld these in then EVE client is beside me.
Why, so they could end up shutting it down? Sony already took care of that. So no WiS (Walking in stations) in eve, and no more WiPS (Walking in PLAYstattions) either lol.
The comments section summed it up
Quote:Dogswithguns Jan 14, 2015
Bring back home, plz... so I can hangout with people,, but make it better. ----snip---- cainetao11 Feb 26, 2015
@Dogswithguns There is a better version. Its called "go outside" |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
135
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 16:37:48 -
[670] - Quote
Title of this thread reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK5YGWS5H84
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
|
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tasman devil
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
43
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 16:44:05 -
[671] - Quote
I first read that as WANKING in station... so I go curious and boy was I surprised!
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
|
Aston Martin DB5
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 19:06:30 -
[672] - Quote
Keyer wrote:it adds a layer of depth to the game. This layer you're referring to is important. Adding stations just to walk around wouldn't suffice with players. It would be interesting to see how they generate content. The obvious and probably the easiest is mission runners: Go speak to "xyz at xyz station, you'll find him at the bar."
Also purchasing a drink will give you -20% velocity but +10 percent armor for 1hour.=ƒì+=ƒì+=ƒì¦=ƒì+
That is of course WIS ever comes back to the table for discussion there at CCP.
Edit: iPhone Siri facepalm |
Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
19
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 19:36:12 -
[673] - Quote
Perhaps this has been touched upon in the past:
Is anyone else seeing just how much CCP can do now with the Download-on-Demand feature? Specifically for the possibility of WiS and downloading dynamic assets as they appear? (Lots of capsuleers milling about with various clothes).
Best part is might be that all those that absolutely despise WiS wouldn't have a whole lot to complain about because, well, technically, WiS wouldn't be loaded on their computer (as long as they didn't go into that mode).
Throw in some of the PoS changes CCP discussed at the 2015 conference and WiS could be quite interesting indeed.
*Dream* Player-controlled POS with customizable-layout/floorplan + adding from a plethora of assets, such as plants/slavers that anyone could dock and walk around in. Throw in some mumble (program) hooks for audio positioning and distance. */dream*
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1178
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 21:23:01 -
[674] - Quote
Those clunky turns and cameras. Consoles are always so disappointing. CCP ... why didn't you stick to PCs? Aston Martin DB5 wrote: It would be interesting to see how they generate content. "Go and whip the scientists to improve your researching speed by 1% for the next 24 hours."
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Ticondrius
Void Regulation
23
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 05:24:24 -
[675] - Quote
I neither hate nor love WiS these days. I was very interested in it at the time, having come from Westwood Studios' Earth & Beyond as EA forcibly sunset the game in order to repurpose the devs for The Sims Online (Yeah, THAT went well). In E&B trading and shops were all done in station out of your ship. There simply was no hangar view in the way we think of it. It was much more like your CQ at the end of the catwalk. You could look at your ship in the docking bay.
That said, I can't see any way to make WiS useful in EVE. Even the backstory makes it clear we are "above" the normal people that inhabit the stations and planets. We are, for better or worse, gods incarnate. As long as we stay in our pods (and CQs), we are immortal. We are all of us incredibly wealthy (a few hundred ISK could buy a city). We aren't really human anymore. We are...ships...with a human mind. We prefer the company of a fleet to the company of other humans at a bar.
In pure game design terms, I could see perhaps opening the interior to the EVE Store, where you spend Aurum on what is essentially NPC generated items. Maybe some of the more functional ideas we saw, like a board room for corporations with offices in the station.
I think the one idea I have that could work well with WiS was inspired by their "Future Vision" video. Add an aspect of Dust 514/Legion into a strategy game for EVE pilots where we pay a corporation to fight for us on the battlefield, and nominally under our command. Anyone remember Tribes 2?
TL/DR; WiS as originally envisioned, sucked and doesn't really work with EVE. There are some ways it could work, but NOT as a casual social feature. Subfeatures (e.g. Corp boardroom, EVE Store, interconnecting gameplay...) of WiS MUST be useful. |
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
304
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 09:46:54 -
[676] - Quote
Quote:*Dream* Player-controlled POS with customizable-layout/floorplan + adding from a plethora of assets, such as plants/slavers that anyone could dock and walk around in. Throw in some mumble (program) hooks for audio positioning and distance. */dream*
This thread lacks some proper roleplaying.
*cough*
*puts on a wizard hat fake beard, complete with bits of food stuck in it. Wipes the greasy fingers with the beard.*
...No. Because No. EVE is a game about spaceships, is it that hard to understand? The barbie lovers like you are the cancer that kills MY game. Go back to WoW, Second Life or whatever hellhole with pets, furries and cybersex that spawned your ilk.
I'll tell you what, young man. I don't need your friggin' "immersion" in my game. I do serious things here and don't have time for your stupid fluff, and neither does and any sane person in EVE who isn't a furry roleplayer freak. Why must I "walk" somewhere if it is faster just to browse a spreadsheet and click a button? What undock animation? I am fine with a loading bar and I'd turn it off right away, and everyone will. When I was your age, we had Nethack and Dwarf Fortress, and ASCII was just fine. Why CCP don't make an ASCII EVE client so serious people like me don't have to endure the idiocy of your kind? EVE doesn't need people like you. In fact, it doesn't need people at all, in 2003 we had 500 peak online and it was okay. "More" is not "better"...
brb, bubble on the gate caught something
...a day old shuttle. He was just "exploring". Idiots. You don't "explore" in EVE. Every day this game gets more and more idiots who refuse to live in reality, and they, and you, turn it into a Hello Kitty Online and Teletubbies crossover...
*incoherent ramblings*
*Beard falls off.* |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
45
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 10:01:51 -
[677] - Quote
Im addicted to porno-graphy |
Flamespar
WarRavens
1315
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 10:03:05 -
[678] - Quote
"players of EVE online see only a fraction of the possible configurations of the captains' quarters which are now featured in the game"
Quote from EVE: Universe book
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3440
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 13:01:17 -
[679] - Quote
So... according to CCP, their playerbase has been classified into these five groups:
30% of Professionals who do everyhting 25% of Entrepreneurs who stick to PvE and industry/trade, but occassionally PvP 25% of Traditionals who play EVE as a traditional MMO 12% of Social who play Skillqueue Online as they communicate with other players 8% of Agressors who just PvP
That's 37% of players who would be interested in *any* WiS, plus 25% who would be interested if it was good for their profits, plus 30% who would join in if everybody else was doing it.
And then there's the fringe 8% who make so much noise in every thread about highsec, PvE or WiS.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
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Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
305
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 13:33:21 -
[680] - Quote
...And if we add an opportunity of meaningful PvP as a part of WiS, or, god forbid, unconsensual PvP in public areas with system security limitations, then, those 8% also can grab a gun or a knife and enjoy their share of the gank.
Which leaves us with purebreed forum trolls, the people who think that any kind of immersion is bad, and the PvPers who won't use WiS and are afraid that it will cut their supply of targets in space. I guess that's about 2%. |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10524
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 13:41:13 -
[681] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So... according to CCP, their playerbase has been classified into these five groups: 30% of Professionals who do everyhting 25% of Entrepreneurs who stick to PvE and industry/trade, but occassionally PvP 25% of Traditionals who play EVE as a traditional MMO 12% of Social who play Skillqueue Online as they communicate with other players 8% of Agressors who just PvP That's 37% of players who would be interested in *any* WiS, plus 25% who would be interested if it was good for their profits, plus 30% who would join in if everybody else was doing it. And then there's the fringe 8% who make so much noise in every thread about highsec, PvE or WiS.
This is why you (and WiS types) will always be disappointed with the realities of any given situation but especially this one. You spend too much energy trying to see things they way you want instead of how they are. In this case, this is anohter example of "the people who don't want WiS are jsut pvp types who want people in space so they can blow them up"
That is a lie.
I'm not in that 8% group at all and I think WiS would make for a poorer overall game (if CCP reverted to type and made it mandatory like they did in the beginning when you couldn't opt out of the captain's quarters). I think Sony's experience with Playstation Home (as i linked above) is a lesson CCP has already learned (that useless Second Life-esque fluff is a useless money pit).
I think CCP actually started to learn this lesson when they got the backlash not just from Incarna, but also from the fact that they made WiS (via the captains quarters) MANDATORY. At 1st you couldn't opt out (ie you had to start in the captains quarters, you could start with a simple hanger view).
I can't speak for others (unlike what you WiS types do all the time in saying "people want this!!"), but I know that I myself prefer the spartan/minimalist approach that EVE is best known for. If you make me walk to talk to an agent instead of the very simple "right click-start convo" way I have right now, I wouldn't care for that. And for those that say "you wouldn't have to use it", it would still be detrimental because it would shift CCPs EVE core development away from real EVE (even just a little, 2 devs working on WiS is too much).
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10525
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 13:50:00 -
[682] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:...And if we add an opportunity of meaningful PvP as a part of WiS, or, god forbid, unconsensual PvP in public areas with system security limitations, then, those 8% also can grab a gun or a knife and enjoy their share of the gank.
Which leaves us with purebreed forum trolls, the people who think that any kind of immersion is bad, and the PvPers who won't use WiS and are afraid that it will cut their supply of targets in space. I guess that's about 2%.
Example number 2 of how denial warps a persons brain. There is no correlation what-so-ever between PVP play style and disliking the idea of EVE being contaminated by useless avatar play.
WiS PVP would be completely detrimental to the game even if gankers could gank. In space, gankers ganking ships helps the economy by helping create and maintain need for the things PVE players produce (minerals to build more ships, modules to fit on to newly built ships etc). How would WiS pvp beneift the game, by making people go "oh wow, need a new shirt because this one is bloody, better get some Aurum"?
What you want would screw people like me (mission runners and anomaly farmers) who depend on the demand created by PVP (including gankers). And for what, so you can pretend to drink a beer while sitting in a virtual space station looking out a window at a virtual planet? At the bottom of all of this is the WiS advocates' unending selfishness.
You can't seem to understand that some people don't play games for the same reason you do. You want to be 'immersed' in something and that's fine. I don't , for the same reasons I don't like VR and won't be playing Valkyrie (I like to know what world I am actually occupying at all times).
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1514
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 14:11:24 -
[683] - Quote
Whittorical Quandary wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote: That said, I am continually amazed at the hostility to social functions in a fundamentally social game. EVE could do much, much more than it currently does to allow people to interact, and I'm not at all just talking about avatars.
It's a social hostility based game.
That's odd. I don't remember much social hostility on comms. Maybe your corp is different than any of mine have been.
It's a fundamentally social game. Unlike a lot of "social" games, it includes the full spectrum of possible social reactions, including shooting that guy in the face because you don't like his mom.
Whittorical Quandary wrote:Any gameplay or WiS that does not allow you to put on a gun and shoot the person next to you because they talked about how bad your mom playes eve, is bound to fail.
I find it telling that the majority of the opposition to WiS is based on the assumption that an extension to the successful and durable EVE gameplay model would in no way resemble the successful and durable EVE gameplay model. How easy it must be to imagine that the same people who are currently overhauling the spaceship game--somehow, without including a single instance or any space pandas!--will then turn around, pitch all of that, and do something totally different.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Dots
Center for Advanced Studies
5
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 14:26:35 -
[684] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I find it telling that the majority of the opposition to WiS is based on the assumption that an extension to the successful and durable EVE gameplay model would in no way resemble the successful and durable EVE gameplay model. How easy it must be to imagine that the same people who are currently overhauling the spaceship game--somehow, without including a single instance or any space pandas!--will then turn around, pitch all of that, and do something totally different.
The primary objection to WIS is that CCP does not have the resources to implement it, without cannibalizing resources from spaceship violence development.
All other arguments are philosophical, and have no bearing in the realm of realistic changes we can expect in the game. You want to wish for a unicorn sighting? Fine. Just don't expect someone to take it seriously.
Edit: clarified my first statement.
everything is better with ߦêߦÆߦù-ó on it
New Player Opportunities: a gallery
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Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
305
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 14:43:44 -
[685] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:WiS PVP would be completely detrimental to the game even if gankers could gank. In space, gankers ganking ships helps the economy by helping create and maintain need for the things PVE players produce (minerals to build more ships, modules to fit on to newly built ships etc). How would WiS pvp beneift the game, by making people go "oh wow, need a new shirt because this one is bloody, better get some Aurum"?
What you want would screw people like me (mission runners and anomaly farmers) who depend on the demand created by PVP (including gankers). And for what, so you can pretend to drink a beer while sitting in a virtual space station looking out a window at a virtual planet? At the bottom of all of this is the WiS advocates' unending selfishness. You do realize, that there'd be a large market for WiS equipment, such as guns, vehicles, protective suits, etc., etc? Look at the DUST 514 market section. Now imagine all that stuff could be produced and sold by the actual players.
Dots wrote:The primary objection to WIS is that CCP does not have the resources to implement it, without cannibalizing resources from spaceship violence development. I'd start with cannibalizing what's left of Dust, and then Valkyrie, because it's the next Dust, and looked closer at the Fanfest budgets and other nice things, like monuments in Iceland, cubesats, etc. But there's no way that's going to happen.
Quote:All other arguments are philosophical, and have no bearing in the realm of realistic changes we can expect in the game. You want to wish for a unicorn sighting? Fine. Just don't expect someone to take it seriously. Exactly, it's pure medieval theology at that point. We're counting the fly's legs and argue whether there are six or this is an impaired fly that lacks two extra legs, because Aristotle saw 8.
WiS is not even an undead horse, it's an undead eight-legged fly by this point. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10526
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 14:53:51 -
[686] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:You do realize, that there'd be a large market for WiS equipment, such as guns, vehicles, protective suits, etc., etc? Look at the DUST 514 market section. Now imagine all that stuff could be produced and sold by the actual players.
So, lets copy what a failed game did (DUST) instead of sticking with what we know is a winning and sustainable (for more than a decade) formula (EVE).
That idea is brilliant, when didn't we think of that earlier? Also, how many player made plasma rifles will it take to equal the loss of one player made Rifter?
If WiS types were the more realistic sort, you all might have been able to make a cogent and compelling argument that would have not only swayed skeptics like me, but also CCP. That you cannot demonstrates that the biggest roadblock to WiS isn't folks like me, or CCP, or even financial and technical reality, but rather the unrealistic and denial-ridden people who currently support it.
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Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
305
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 15:14:36 -
[687] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:If WiS types were the more realistic sort, you all might have been able to make a cogent and compelling argument that would have not only swayed skeptics like me, but also CCP. That you cannot demonstrates that the biggest roadblock to WiS isn't folks like me, or CCP, or even financial and technical reality, but rather the unrealistic and denial-ridden people who currently support it.
/thread |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1188
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 15:26:36 -
[688] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:If WiS types were the more realistic sort, you all might have been able to make a cogent and compelling argument that would have not only swayed skeptics like me, but also CCP. That you cannot demonstrates that the biggest roadblock to WiS isn't folks like me, or CCP, or even financial and technical reality, but rather the unrealistic and denial-ridden people who currently support it. /thread No. Jenn aSide steadfastly sticks to what ever they perceive as more macho or in their own interests. Their ego prevents them from accepting the many arguments set forth in this and many other threads.
They are here to make a lot of words and feel self important, not actually achieve anything. "Forum PVP" is their purpose of writing here and as such I pretty much always ignore them and often read the others posts more throughly. They are like a barometer, if they are replying to someone then there is probably something good that is being trolled.
So, not /thread at all.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
305
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 15:38:40 -
[689] - Quote
Quote:"Forum PVP" is their purpose of writing here That's exactly what I meant. The whole discussion about WiS had long ago devolved into a meaningless forum PvP, and because we'll probably never see actual full-scale implementation of WiS (even Legion starts to look unlikely), it's double extra meaningless. The above quote by Jenn was just a good example of a masterful trolling at which we as well may close the thread as redundant. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10526
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 15:56:36 -
[690] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:Quote:"Forum PVP" is their purpose of writing here That's exactly what I meant. The whole discussion about WiS had long ago devolved into a meaningless forum PvP, and because we'll probably never see actual full-scale implementation of WiS (even Legion starts to look unlikely), it's double extra meaningless. The above quote by Jenn was just a good example of a masterful trolling at which we as well may close the thread as redundant.
Look at yourself, i mean really. You accuse me of "trolling" (ie being not genuine aka lying in order to get an emotional response from someone for the purpose of self entertainment) simply because I'm telling you the truth when you don't want to hear it.
The truth here is that I am winning already, even if I were prone to trolling I wouldn't need to lol, CCP is firmly not doing "in EVe WiS" now or in the foreseeable future. I'm not telling you this so that you feel bad. I telling you this because it's true, I don't get any jollies from the idea that some human being with internet access that I will probably never meet is sitting at a computer being mad because a game company won't modify their software in a way he desires lol.
TL;DR, I'm not the crazy one here, it's you lot. |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1188
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 15:59:06 -
[691] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:TL;DR, I'm not the crazy one here, it's you lot. This is what you relish saying over and over again.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10526
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 16:00:15 -
[692] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jade Blackwind wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:If WiS types were the more realistic sort, you all might have been able to make a cogent and compelling argument that would have not only swayed skeptics like me, but also CCP. That you cannot demonstrates that the biggest roadblock to WiS isn't folks like me, or CCP, or even financial and technical reality, but rather the unrealistic and denial-ridden people who currently support it. /thread No. Jenn aSide steadfastly sticks to what ever they perceive as more macho or in their own interests. Their ego prevents them from accepting the many arguments set forth in this and many other threads. They are here to make a lot of words and feel self important, not actually achieve anything. "Forum PVP" is their purpose of writing here and as such I pretty much always ignore them and often read the others posts more throughly. They are like a barometer, if they are replying to someone then there is probably something good that is being trolled. So, not /thread at all.
If it makes you feel better to ignore what I'm telling you and pretend that it's trolling, feel free. But deep down you know you're lying about it.
Oh and on a side note, a sense of responsibility and self reliance (even in a video game), and not believing that people who voluntarily choose to play a video game are some how 'victims' of something isn't being 'macho', it's being an adult. You may give it a swing someday, you might even get the less than 150 account holder (out of 400,000 potential supporters) who voted for you for CSM to help you.
Yes that last part was an intended swipe, can't lie about that |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10526
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 16:02:13 -
[693] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:TL;DR, I'm not the crazy one here, it's you lot. This is what you relish saying over and over again.
I relish speaking the truth? Who would have figured that?
Again, if blaming me for your self inflected problem helps you, I am happy to serve. Hell, we may even meet in some form of EVE WiS one day, at which point I will sever your avatars head with my plasma sword while I'm wearing a kilt, for there can only be one (Jen).
Hashtag HighlanderReference. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1188
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 16:53:36 -
[694] - Quote
Kids.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10527
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 17:06:25 -
[695] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Kids.
Lol, I'm most likely older than you. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1189
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 17:08:27 -
[696] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Kids. Lol, I'm most likely older than you. Not mentally.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10527
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 17:14:53 -
[697] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Kids. Lol, I'm most likely older than you. Not mentally.
It's the height of delusion that you actually believe that, when it's you who can't accept the reality that not only is WiS not happening (it is not, as far as CCP has continued to indicate) but that WiS might actually be something that is bad for a game like EVE online (a game that attracts minimalist anti-immersion gamers, such as myself).
You'd be an asset to this community were it not for your internal personality issues. It's only those issues that hold you back (which is actually true off most people, it's not "the man keeping the people down", it's people not facing their personal problems). Face those issues and hell, I'd vote for you for the next CSM. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1189
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 17:18:48 -
[698] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Kids. Lol, I'm most likely older than you. Not mentally. (Going around the mulberry bush again) I'd vote for you for the next CSM. You can go dig up the post, I said before the results were announced that I will not run again next year win or lose. The Fozzie Logic SOV that is on the table with feedback being ignored I am glad to have no part of that.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Balthasar Dorian
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 07:06:47 -
[699] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote: A WiS that is worth a crap would end up being its own game requiring its own budget and its own team. CCP realized this and so they did exactly that - put together a new team and made DUST. Unfortunately they didn't release it on the platform their player base is on. And it's a FPS, not particularly interesting, to me, and maybe not to the average EVE player either. Additionally it looks like they made it a PITA just like EVE, with skills and gear and money whatnot. That is not what I am looking for if I want to play a FPS. I'm guessing that is not what most FPS players are looking for. And a FPS in general is probably not what WiS advocates are looking for. Not sure who CCP was trying to cater to with DUST. Legion will be on PC at least but other than that it seems it will be the same game as DUST? It might have been cool to see a planet in Thera opened up for exploration on foot and ground vehicles. A massive open landscape free for all like DayZ on a MMO-sized world. Go down in a shuttle hunting for goods then try to slip them back to empire. It would have to be split up into multiple shards though. Instanced. Naughty word when it comes to EVE.
Project Legion would be incredible if it took the current avatars and gave us a planet to walk/roam around on. Maybe even a third person fighting mechanic similar to the way spaceships fight in EVE? If it needed to be launched from an entirely separate folder to prevent it from being a resource hog then so be it.
Would be amazing to see your wallet and assets in game as well to give a sense of continuity. Then launch collected goods up to the customs office just like how planetary interaction functions in EVE. Then after a few hours of fighting on foot, you can log out of Legion and then log back into EVE to collect the good via spaceship. Slightly annoying but probably a lot less technically demanding than what they tried with WiS.
I'd also like to see exploring and fighting inside derelict spaceship hulls but that might require direct connection to Tranquility server.
If Legion is the same game as DUST then they are wasting their time. That game appeals to a completely different type of player and wouldn't interest their already sizable EVE fanbase. The MMO must grow!! |
Balthasar Dorian
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 07:13:33 -
[700] - Quote
Cahir Ceallach wrote:When we have WIS and Planet Walking integrate in EVE we can explore and fight against NPC to get nice faction stuff for our ship.
Maybe even special materials that can only be found exploring specific locations planetside. That way the walking and shooting becomes economically meaningful. |
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Balthasar Dorian
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 07:19:07 -
[701] - Quote
Ravnik wrote:WIS will only work if you can walkup to ppl you are at war with and blast them in the face...and it gets included on your killboard. Otherwise...no thanks
That would be pretty awesome. Though there would still need to be concord protected non-pvp zones or we could NEVER go afk without logging out |
Luna Le Fey
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:06:15 -
[702] - Quote
I don' t know if this thread has just gotten to the point where everyone is just trolling or if they really expect pvp in WiS.
All I wanted was a place to do something while waiting for a fleet to form, or sell/buy orders to complete ect, like gamble or some mini games, instead I'm supposed to be content with ship spinning. Although I've all but given up ever expecting to see WiS, instead ccp seems determined to invest in things that either will obviously be failures or have no impact on the eve universe at all Dust, oh yes cause we totally needed another shooter, I couldn't have been less interested in anything when the last big shooter came out, so why would I be interested in Dust ? And now Valkyrie, sure I'll admit it looks neat, but that's it, it will almost certainly still be a failure not only because it will have no impact on this universe but more the fact that hardly anyone owns a Rift.
Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. |
Lan Wang
Aliastra Gallente Federation
305
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:10:11 -
[703] - Quote
Luna Le Fey wrote:I don' t know if this thread has just gotten to the point where everyone is just trolling or if they really expect pvp in WiS.
All I wanted was a place to do something while waiting for a fleet to form, or sell/buy orders to complete ect, like gamble or some mini games, instead I'm supposed to be content with ship spinning. Although I've all but given up ever expecting to see WiS, instead ccp seems determined to invest in things that either will obviously be failures or have no impact on the eve universe at all Dust, oh yes cause we totally needed another shooter, I couldn't have been less interested in anything when the last big shooter came out, so why would I be interested in Dust ? And now Valkyrie, sure I'll admit it looks neat, but that's it, it will almost certainly still be a failure not only because it will have no impact on this universe but more the fact that hardly anyone owns a Rift.
Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.
iwantisk, evebet, crink, eve poker, teamspeak, mumble etc etc, hardly anyone owns a rift because they are not mainstream available yet :/
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Luna Le Fey
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:16:49 -
[704] - Quote
Yea true, and I get that the team working on something like Valkyrie is only a tiny one so they're not taking anything away from eve, but even so, they could at least put a small team on WiS as well, from what I understand they've just stopped working on it completely.
I guess I just find it odd how eve has become this game that I play while doing something else, like playing another game or watching a film. |
Lan Wang
Aliastra Gallente Federation
305
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:22:01 -
[705] - Quote
there is so much to do from even the links ive added above which does not require wis because it would bring no advantage to the game, only rp, everything in game can be done via quicker methods and people would realise this a couple of days after wis and revert back to the old ways leaving wis mostly a waste of time.
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Chibi Katana
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
254
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:27:49 -
[706] - Quote
Luna Le Fey wrote:I don' t know if this thread has just gotten to the point where everyone is just trolling or if they really expect pvp in WiS. Reached that point a loooong time ago. Though PVP in WiS is a seperate issue imo.
Honestly not even worth trying to respond to stuff in a thread like this. It's just people who cannot stand to allow others to get excited about a concept they're not into. They'll spend hours trying to beat you up over it here, saving you from yourself, because that's what they like to do while waiting for fleets to form etc.
Luna Le Fey wrote:Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. I agree with your 2 cents.
µä¢ c-++¦-¦+¦-+-à
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Luna Le Fey
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:31:31 -
[707] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:there is so much to do from even the links ive added above which does not require wis because it would bring no advantage to the game, only rp, everything in game can be done via quicker methods and people would realise this a couple of days after wis and revert back to the old ways leaving wis mostly a waste of time.
Yea I guess you're right, as much as I'd like to rp in this game (and i know there's corps and alliances out there that do) it's just not going to get to that point, oh well. |
Lan Wang
Aliastra Gallente Federation
305
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:35:09 -
[708] - Quote
Chibi Katana wrote:Luna Le Fey wrote:I don' t know if this thread has just gotten to the point where everyone is just trolling or if they really expect pvp in WiS. Reached that point a loooong time ago. Though PVP in WiS is a seperate issue imo. Honestly not even worth trying to respond to stuff in a thread like this. It's just people who cannot stand to allow others to get excited about a concept they're not into. They'll spend hours trying to beat you up over it here, saving you from yourself, because that's what they like to do while waiting for fleets to form etc. Luna Le Fey wrote:Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. I agree with your 2 cents.
you cannot stand that people do not like your concept
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Luna Le Fey
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:36:20 -
[709] - Quote
lol everyone can dream can't they ! *runs of crying* |
Chibi Katana
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
263
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:40:03 -
[710] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Chibi Katana wrote:Luna Le Fey wrote:I don' t know if this thread has just gotten to the point where everyone is just trolling or if they really expect pvp in WiS. Reached that point a loooong time ago. Though PVP in WiS is a seperate issue imo. Honestly not even worth trying to respond to stuff in a thread like this. It's just people who cannot stand to allow others to get excited about a concept they're not into. They'll spend hours trying to beat you up over it here, saving you from yourself, because that's what they like to do while waiting for fleets to form etc. Luna Le Fey wrote:Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. I agree with your 2 cents. you cannot stand that people do not like your concept Not at all. I enjoy discussing it.
Just don't see the point in wasting my time sitting around arguing with folks who display your logic.
EVE's about fun, and that's not fun for me. Might be for you though.
µä¢ c-++¦-¦+¦-+-à
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10663
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:50:11 -
[711] - Quote
Chibi Katana wrote: It's just people who cannot stand to allow others to get excited about a concept they're not into.
That is a very self serving way to look at it, but it's not true. No one cares what you are into (even if it is silly as hell, i reemeber someone posting in this thread about how cool it would be to have a 'hanger briefing' or some such, what would that evne look like, a bunch of eggs (pods) rolled up next to each other in a hanger?)
We care how this basically tiny "one real IP" game company spends it's time doing. Some of us lived through the BS that was incarna and the 18 month flying in space development black hole that preceded it, and simply don't want anything like that to ever happen again.
The idea the CCP should risk (even in a tiny way, 1 DEV working on WiS is too much) doing that again so that some RP type can drink a beer he can't taste in a bar that doesn't exist is a real BS way to think IMO. |
Chibi Katana
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
265
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 13:52:59 -
[712] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Chibi Katana wrote: It's just people who cannot stand to allow others to get excited about a concept they're not into. That is a very self serving way to look at it, but it's not true. No one cares what you are into (even if it is silly as hell, i reemeber someone posting in this thread about how cool it would be to have a 'hanger briefing' or some such, what would that evne look like, a bunch of eggs (pods) rolled up next to each other in a hanger?) We care how this basically tiny "one real IP" game company spends it's time doing. Some of us lived through the BS that was incarna and the 18 month flying in space development black hole that preceded it, and simply don't want anything like that to ever happen again. The idea the CCP should risk (even in a tiny way, 1 DEV working on WiS is too much) doing that again so that some RP type can drink a beer he can't taste in a bar that doesn't exist is a real BS way to think IMO. Ok.
µä¢ c-++¦-¦+¦-+-à
|
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1518
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 14:07:16 -
[713] - Quote
Luna Le Fey wrote:I don' t know if this thread has just gotten to the point where everyone is just trolling or if they really expect pvp in WiS.
I'm not trolling. It fits the general theme, and the last avatar gameplay prototype that CCP mocked up featured PVP.
I'm also OK with things like corporate areas and bars (though, the seedier the bar the higher the chance of PVP, right? ;-)), but corporate areas in particular would need a whole bunch of extra work in order to be useful enough to justify. If it's just a bunch of avatars sitting in a room around a table running through their default animation cycle, that's not terribly interesting, is it? And if it's like the CQ, where it's actually harder to access services than it is outside the CQ and for some reason they made it difficult to sit on a couch, then it will be the niche-iest of niche features.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Dextrome Thorphan
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 14:52:10 -
[714] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:The PvP'ers in this game want to keep it small and have CCP pander totally to them. they are like spoilt children craving mummy's attention all the time and every time mummy tries to do some thing else they have a crying sissy fit until she mollifies them.
Walking in stations was something new, a breath of fresh air for eve online and an opportunity to make the game more appealing to a broader group of potential customers.
The people that objected to "walking in stations" are blind to the fact that making the game more appealing to a broader customer base swells the number of paying customers on the server both giving CCP increased revenue and them more characters to shoot.
I just hope that walking in stations was just put on hold and not canceled all together
Players had nothing to do with CCP screwing up WiS... everyone was waiting patiently for an asburd long time and all they were working on was a new character creator, which is nice don't get me wrong, but it didn't contribute to gameplay in any way.
And then they dropped the whole thing and started developping 3 other games :p |
Velarra
359
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 14:53:50 -
[715] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left.
More serious question...what happened to the Ambulation project Torfie was promoting and talking about with videos and impressive demo's a little while ago? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1240
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 15:28:22 -
[716] - Quote
(Going off a page back) There is a possible drawback. CCP might decide to use Dust engine including movement mechanics and then push that into WiS and Legion, so we would have this awful jerky motion with weak camera following to compensate for a controller that we do not use.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
926
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 15:37:03 -
[717] - Quote
What WiS really will bring doesn't seem to strike anyone:
Rule 34 wrote:No exceptions.
Most people dkn't even consider the idea of how much power WiS will put into the hands of a few people ...
... and how prostitution would flourish!
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1240
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 16:00:24 -
[718] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:... and how prostitution would flourish! *Sigh* Closet Second Lifers and their obsessions.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25066
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 16:22:27 -
[719] - Quote
Velarra wrote:More serious question...what happened to the Ambulation project Torfie was promoting and talking about with videos and impressive demo's a little while ago? GǣA little while agoGǥ was 7 years agoGǪ
It was unceremoniously trashed and restarted from scratch (twice) due to massive scope creep, lack of planning, and abysmal management. Then the entire staff was laid off and the whole idea abandoned.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1241
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 16:33:02 -
[720] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Velarra wrote:More serious question...what happened to the Ambulation project Torfie was promoting and talking about with videos and impressive demo's a little while ago? GǣA little while agoGǥ was 7 years agoGǪ It was unceremoniously trashed and restarted from scratch (twice) due to massive scope creep, lack of planning, and abysmal management. Then the entire staff was laid off and the whole idea abandoned. Good thing too! It needed more .... pssszzztttt!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
|
Bill Lane
Military Gamers FUBAR.
94
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 16:47:30 -
[721] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
The idea the CCP should risk (even in a tiny way, 1 DEV working on WiS is too much) doing that again so that some RP type can drink a beer he can't taste in a bar that doesn't exist is a real BS way to think IMO.
Yes because everybody else is flying in spaceships that obviously exist...
I'm not into RP but come on, Eve could use something to draw in more players and there is a large RP community out there. And not only RP folks would enjoy WiS. Time to broaden some horizons, add some truly new stuff like walking in stations, docking on a carrier or titan and being able to ride in it, etc. Add some new material never before seen in Eve. The competition has it and it looks great. Why CCP can't seem to get it right is beyond me, but the idea should not be shelved, even if it's devs working on it on their off-time for fun.
Not to mention more players means more money, CCP could probably afford to grow a bit and have more devs.
http://www.militarygamers.com/
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10667
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 16:50:11 -
[722] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Velarra wrote:More serious question...what happened to the Ambulation project Torfie was promoting and talking about with videos and impressive demo's a little while ago? GǣA little while agoGǥ was 7 years agoGǪ It was unceremoniously trashed and restarted from scratch (twice) due to massive scope creep, lack of planning, and abysmal management. Then the entire staff was laid off and the whole idea abandoned.
He's talking about Extra Vehicular Activity from 2-3 years ago . I still enjoy reading this thread and the WiSr tears it invoked. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10667
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 17:00:51 -
[723] - Quote
Bill Lane wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
The idea the CCP should risk (even in a tiny way, 1 DEV working on WiS is too much) doing that again so that some RP type can drink a beer he can't taste in a bar that doesn't exist is a real BS way to think IMO.
Yes because everybody else is flying in spaceships that obviously exist... I'm not into RP but come on, Eve could use something to draw in more players and there is a large RP community out there. And not only RP folks would enjoy WiS. Time to broaden some horizons, add some truly new stuff like walking in stations, docking on a carrier or titan and being able to ride in it, etc. Add some new material never before seen in Eve. The competition has it and it looks great. Why CCP can't seem to get it right is beyond me, but the idea should not be shelved, even if it's devs working on it on their off-time for fun. Not to mention more players means more money, CCP could probably afford to grow a bit and have more devs.
I took the liberty of underlining the arguments WiS types have clanged to for years while resisting the realities of the situation.
EVE needs new players who like EVE, not something EVE. And yes 'the competition' has this stuff and yet you don't see people fleeing EVE for it (proving that it's not needed in EVE, it would end up just another playstation home like thing that would prove to be the same kind fo waste of time).
But the last part (money) is the biggest reason why WiS should never happen. Say CCP did it and it drew in all those new players, CCP would have to get bigger and bigger to accommodate them and they'd adopt the same 'expansionist' culture that almost killed CCP and EVE just a very few years ago.
CCP as a smaller , more focused company has provided one of the best and most enduring MMOs in history. CCP that tried to be a bigger company brought us such hits as:
"World of Darkness: And we MEAN Darkness , so dark it doesn't exist"
"Incarna: Death to all Video Cards"
and
"(get left in the) DUST (by every real shooting game) 514......
I know which company I prefer CCP to be lol.
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4407
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 17:04:23 -
[724] - Quote
i liked the announcement of work on gameplay for avatars, but i hate what that thread became |
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
952
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 17:07:04 -
[725] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:... and how prostitution would flourish! *Sigh* Closet Second Lifers and their obsessions. Ooohhhhh nonono.
I'm not talking about extreme escapism. I'm talking about power!
Power OVER these second lifers. I'm no fan of them either!
I have written numerous posts about how I do not want these people around here, but I will damn sure do whatever I can to put them to good use and make em pay!
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1241
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 17:19:23 -
[726] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Do whatever I can to put them to good use and make em pay! Quite a lot of them like paying. Why do you think there are so many virtual shops? If you mean metaphorically, then a lot of them enjoy that also. With Second Lifers, if there is a stroke then there is a folk.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1241
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 17:25:45 -
[727] - Quote
Bill Lane wrote:... docking on a carrier or titan and being able to ride in it, etc... There is a problem. There are too many stations and ships. The imagination fills in all these people crewing your ships or doing important things to keep your ship running but once you start walking around in stations or ships and only see some token NPCs with very few players then you will feel that the game is empty and you are less important to your own story.
Which is one reason that I keep mentioning ideas to integrate Dust and Valkerie, pool all the players in the social areas.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25066
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 17:39:31 -
[728] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Tippia wrote:It was unceremoniously trashed and restarted from scratch (twice) due to massive scope creep, lack of planning, and abysmal management. Then the entire staff was laid off and the whole idea abandoned. He's talking about Extra Vehicular Activity from 2-3 years ago . I still enjoy reading this thread and the WiSr tears it invoked. Ah, fair enough. Not that it really qualifies as GÇ£a little while agoGÇ¥ anyway, and the answer is pretty much spot on in that case too GÇö just replace GÇ£ambulationGÇ¥ with GÇ£WiSGÇ¥.
EVA was just WiS Rev 2 (still dead), after allGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
961
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 18:02:25 -
[729] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:Do whatever I can to put them to good use and make em pay! Quite a lot of them like paying. E x a c t l y !
*snickers xD*
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
|
PsiMin
The Warp Core Stabilizers Tactical Narcotics Team
41
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 11:57:12 -
[730] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left.
they lost the keys to the door that leads you to the station, so they gave up due to the expense, it will never happen so ive put a poster over my door |
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1250
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 12:01:26 -
[731] - Quote
PsiMin wrote:Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left. they lost the keys to the door that leads you to the station, so they gave up due to the expense, it will never happen so ive put a poster over my door I've turned my ship. Going to blow away my Captain's Quarters and see the void on the other side.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Boseo
Azure Horizon
76
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 19:12:42 -
[732] - Quote
Just wanted to point out to people who keep that Dust 514 is a failed project and is a waste of resources. You do realize its is now seen as profitable by ccp now right? Here is the article and nice quote
Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson wrote:"I will share that Dust is a profitable business for CCP,"
Take it as you will just wanted to point that out to people using Dust as an example of a failed project.
Sorry but file Gǣforumsig.GIFGǥ is currently unavailable please come back laterGǪGǪ like in a year or so.
|
Bill Lane
Military Gamers FUBAR.
94
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 22:06:50 -
[733] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Bill Lane wrote:... docking on a carrier or titan and being able to ride in it, etc... There is a problem. There are too many stations and ships. The imagination fills in all these people crewing your ships or doing important things to keep your ship running but once you start walking around in stations or ships and only see some token NPCs with very few players then you will feel that the game is empty and you are less important to your own story. Which is one reason that I keep mentioning ideas to integrate Dust and Valkerie, pool all the players in the social areas.
Well I'm just thinking of carriers doing what their name implies, I don't think people should actually be able to crew positions. I would concede though that crewed positions would be asked for to improve defenses when their ship is onboard. But really I think at least a titan should be able to carry a limited fleet around, both ships and their pilots. Could give them an outside view of the ship, or a stationary internal view like in stations with CQ turned off. Would just be a different, smaller design.
http://www.militarygamers.com/
|
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
376
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 09:07:14 -
[734] - Quote
Boseo wrote:Just wanted to point out to people who keep that Dust 514 is a failed project and is a waste of resources. You do realize its is now seen as profitable by ccp now right? Here is the article and nice quote Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson wrote:"I will share that Dust is a profitable business for CCP," Take it as you will just wanted to point that out to people using Dust as an example of a failed project. This likely means that Legion is in development limbo until PS3 gives up the ghost, and that'd take years. A pity.
Eve Solecist wrote:I'm not talking about extreme escapism. I'm talking about power!
Power OVER these second lifers. I'm no fan of them either!
I have written numerous posts about how I do not want these people around here, but I will damn sure do whatever I can to put them to good use and make em pay! Imagine your success in content creaton if you were just a bit more covert about this
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
85
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 11:42:30 -
[735] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:I'm not talking about extreme escapism. I'm talking about power!
Power OVER these second lifers. I'm no fan of them either!
I have written numerous posts about how I do not want these people around here, but I will damn sure do whatever I can to put them to good use and make em pay! Imagine your success in content creaton if you were just a bit more covert about this
Its common thing about every self respecting Master of Evil that he will announce his evil plans beforehand.
http://issuu.com/gregory45/docs/roles role icons for new corporation window
|
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1282
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 11:54:03 -
[736] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Jade Blackwind wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:I'm not talking about extreme escapism. I'm talking about power!
Power OVER these second lifers. I'm no fan of them either!
I have written numerous posts about how I do not want these people around here, but I will damn sure do whatever I can to put them to good use and make em pay! Imagine your success in content creaton if you were just a bit more covert about this Its common thing about every self respecting Master of Evil that he will announce his evil plans beforehand. As if these people knew how to use google...
Sheesh what a day today. -.-
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
343
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 17:18:17 -
[737] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Bill Lane wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
The idea the CCP should risk (even in a tiny way, 1 DEV working on WiS is too much) doing that again so that some RP type can drink a beer he can't taste in a bar that doesn't exist is a real BS way to think IMO.
Yes because everybody else is flying in spaceships that obviously exist... I'm not into RP but come on, Eve could use something to draw in more players and there is a large RP community out there. And not only RP folks would enjoy WiS. Time to broaden some horizons, add some truly new stuff like walking in stations, docking on a carrier or titan and being able to ride in it, etc. Add some new material never before seen in Eve. The competition has it and it looks great. Why CCP can't seem to get it right is beyond me, but the idea should not be shelved, even if it's devs working on it on their off-time for fun. Not to mention more players means more money, CCP could probably afford to grow a bit and have more devs. I took the liberty of underlining the arguments WiS types have clanged to for years while resisting the realities of the situation. EVE needs new players who like EVE, not something EVE. And yes 'the competition' has this stuff and yet you don't see people fleeing EVE for it (proving that it's not needed in EVE, it would end up just another playstation home like thing that would prove to be the same kind fo waste of time). But the last part (money) is the biggest reason why WiS should never happen. Say CCP did it and it drew in all those new players, CCP would have to get bigger and bigger to accommodate them and they'd adopt the same 'expansionist' culture that almost killed CCP and EVE just a very few years ago. CCP as a smaller , more focused company has provided one of the best and most enduring MMOs in history. CCP that tried to be a bigger company brought us such hits as: "World of Darkness: And we MEAN Darkness , so dark it doesn't exist" "Incarna: Death to all Video Cards" and "(get left in the) DUST (by every real shooting game) 514...... I know which company I prefer CCP to be lol.
The company that tries to do new things and fails due to bad management, or the company that never does anything new and has a game that is so completely boring it requires the players to create content for them?
Yea, good options. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1269
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 17:21:06 -
[738] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:The company that tries to do new things and fails due to bad management, or the company that never does anything new and has a game that is so completely boring it requires the players to create content for them? Yea, good options. Why did you have to bring EA into this?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
34770
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 17:41:16 -
[739] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Kuronaga wrote:The company that tries to do new things and fails due to bad management, or the company that never does anything new and has a game that is so completely boring it requires the players to create content for them? Yea, good options. Why did you have to bring EA into this? oi
there's a difference between "boring" and "broken".
also there's a former EA employee working in CCP if I'm not mistaken.
Critically Preposterous is recruiting! Join the fight!
I am a cat.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10699
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 17:44:26 -
[740] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:
The company that tries to do new things and fails due to bad management, or the company that never does anything new and has a game that is so completely boring it requires the players to create content for them?
Yea, good options.
This statement here demonstrates incompatibility with a sandbox environment. The thing I like the best about EVE is that it's an environment where players need to make their own content rather than simply consuming "canned" content from the developer . It's like how in my state, night clubs that say "BYOB" are ALWAYS more fun than establishments that have a liquor license and serve drinks (because with those liquor licenses come a whole bunch of restrictive rules about how bar tenders can serve drinks, and how often).
"Content" in other games means you (the player) experiencing and defeating some writer's (or group of writer's) fantasies turned intocontent by some coder, it's like watching a movie only slightly more interactive. Most people like that which is why most MMOs are 'themeparks'.
In a sandbox game, the world is an interactive backdrop and you yourself MAKE the story/movie.
When you succeed in a multiplayer sandbox, you are succeeding against REAL PEOPLE , some of whom might even actively be trying to stop you (like gankers, or gate campers etc). For example, null sec wars, incursion contests and drama, faction warfare, and CCP run player events that are still player content because players are pitted against each others.
So that's the difference, some of us like the sandbox and don't need some game developer guy to inflict his idea of "fun" on us, we just need a backdrop...and teamspeak.
|
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1269
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 17:50:13 -
[741] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:When you succeed in a multiplayer sandbox, you are succeeding against real people , ... ... or you might have found a quiet corner where you can build your sand castle and ignore they exist. If they come and kick it down then just quietly go over to another corner, (jump clones well placed in advance with sets of ships)
The great potential about Walking in Stations is that it can be a different, more social type of game or not even a game but a setting to get away from the game but still be in contact with the people that you like from the game. To do something different.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12587
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 17:56:36 -
[742] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The great potential about Walking in Stations is that it can be a different, more social type of game or not even a game but a setting to get away from the game but still be in contact with the people that you like from the game. To do something different.
So, the forums?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1270
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 18:32:24 -
[743] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The great potential about Walking in Stations is that it can be a different, more social type of game or not even a game but a setting to get away from the game but still be in contact with the people that you like from the game. To do something different.
So, the forums? More selective.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12587
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 18:35:49 -
[744] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: More selective.
And also much more expensive.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1270
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 18:40:31 -
[745] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: More selective. And also much more expensive. Most of the structure already exists. Two relatively small investments in effort would be: - The ability to invite someone to your Captain's Quarters. - Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
376
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 19:19:20 -
[746] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:- Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment. Well, I'd risk singing along with the Immersion Haters Club here, but please no.
Alliance logos, 0.0 outpost names, and countless RacialCitizens1234567 (while they still retain the original names until someone reports them) are bad enough.
If you give a player an ability to enter any text or upload any graphic asset into the game, it's countdown to *****. Pink Thorax, I mean.
Also, that idea is literally Second Life. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1270
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 19:58:46 -
[747] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:- Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment. Well, I'd risk singing along with the Immersion Haters Club here, but please no. Alliance logos, 0.0 outpost names, and countless RacialCitizens1234567 (while they still retain the original names until someone reports them) are bad enough. If you give a player an ability to enter any text or upload any graphic asset into the game, it's countdown to *****. Pink Thorax, I mean. Also, that idea is literally Second Life. That was the short version, the longer version that I have writen at an earlier point in time detailed that it would be a resource for CCP employees to draw upon when assembling interiors. Hence, CCP would be automatically moderating, using, rejecting or sending back feedback for improvements.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12587
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 20:39:53 -
[748] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Most of the structure already exists. Two relatively small investments in effort would be: - The ability to invite someone to your Captain's Quarters. - Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment.
Both are impossible with the present setup. And the structure does not already exist, the glorified tech demo called the CQ already exists, and all it does is ape the hangar functionality, now that it's not burning up graphics cards with poorly optimized textures.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Velarra
359
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 21:23:43 -
[749] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Velarra wrote:More serious question...what happened to the Ambulation project Torfie was promoting and talking about with videos and impressive demo's a little while ago? GǣA little while agoGǥ was 7 years agoGǪ It was unceremoniously trashed and restarted from scratch (twice) due to massive scope creep, lack of planning, and abysmal management. Then the entire staff was laid off and the whole idea abandoned.
MMhmmm.
See, the following videos finally made me decide to subscribe to eve:
Ambulation!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzy7DG8VR2s
I was especially excited by Torfie's talk here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t1SKhdCkHM
And then there was this absolutely fantastic Fanfest demo here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeanIPs0yws
---
If only as a newb someone had explained early on what "soon" really meant as it relates to Eve. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1919
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 21:47:26 -
[750] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Tippia wrote:Velarra wrote:More serious question...what happened to the Ambulation project Torfie was promoting and talking about with videos and impressive demo's a little while ago? GǣA little while agoGǥ was 7 years agoGǪ It was unceremoniously trashed and restarted from scratch (twice) due to massive scope creep, lack of planning, and abysmal management. Then the entire staff was laid off and the whole idea abandoned. MMhmmm. See, the following videos finally made me decide to try for the first time, and ultimately subscribe to eve: Ambulation!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzy7DG8VR2s I was especially excited by Torfie's talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t1SKhdCkHM And then there was this absolutely fantastic Fanfest demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeanIPs0yws --- If only as a newb someone had explained early on what "soon" really meant as it relates to Eve. It feels like yesterday, and will not be forgotten.
The 2007 fan fest video for ambulation... such awesome stuff that got scrapped
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1270
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 23:52:14 -
[751] - Quote
Occasionally, I feel that WiS has been shelved for so long because CCP doesn't handle critism well, that they are sulking and punishing the player base for the Jita riots.
I am fairly sure that is not the case and they still hold ambitions of making an all in one universe, possibly by linking games like Dust better and Valkerie in the future.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 00:00:36 -
[752] - Quote
WiS was meant to extend eve-¦s reality, a role Dust acheives now in a different but better way as combat is not limited to a range of plastic spoons
already dead, just haven-¦t fallen over yet....
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1270
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 00:03:13 -
[753] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:WiS was meant to extend eve-¦s reality, a role Dust acheives now in a different but better way as combat is not limited to a range of plastic spoons Does not include batteries. Does not run on PC. Is not fully integrated. Please read the instructions and keep away from small children.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 00:17:08 -
[754] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Occasionally, I feel that WiS has been shelved for so long because CCP doesn't handle criticism well, that they are sulking and punishing the player base for the Jita riots.
I am fairly sure that is not the case and they still hold ambitions of making an all in one universe, possibly by linking games like Dust better and Valkerie in the future.
Running with that..... they (CCP Seagull and Co) could actually make it an option on the extra large Administrative Headquarters eventually. It is the solution to binding together the Dust and eve players in a common lobby type environment (also imagine sharing the same WiS space with Dust and eve players in Valkerie.. .awesome with extra sauce). CCP have lots of development code and assets already that are currently just wasted time, it also being a limited option should keep the server load acceptable, keeping the hamsters happy.
CCP, you gave us bodies, shame we all are going to die virgins in our solitary confinement.
already dead, just haven-¦t fallen over yet....
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25075
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 01:15:49 -
[755] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FwRSRfpPDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsWa57RusUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0dzM9msrRw
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1270
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 01:49:42 -
[756] - Quote
Tippia wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0dzM9msrRw To highlight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0dzM9msrRw&t=22m15s "In one morning"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Hal Morsh
Fruidian Logic Dramatic Exit.
277
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 01:57:11 -
[757] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Occasionally, I feel that WiS has been shelved for so long because CCP doesn't handle criticism well, that they are sulking and punishing the player base for the Jita riots.
I am fairly sure that is not the case and they still hold ambitions of making an all in one universe, possibly by linking games like Dust better and Valkerie in the future. Running with that..... they (CCP Seagull and Co) could actually make it an option on the extra large Administrative Headquarters eventually. It is the solution to binding together the Dust and eve players in a common lobby type environment (also imagine sharing the same WiS space with Dust and eve players in Valkerie.. .awesome with extra sauce). CCP have lots of development code and assets already that are currently just wasted time, it also being a limited option should keep the server load acceptable, keeping the hamsters happy. CCP, you gave us bodies, shame we all are going to die virgins in our solitary confinement.
Best option. Null headquarters with (optional) station environments. Those doors staying closed might become an issue unfortunately.
CCP already has a bunch of station assets. Look at that dust PS3 station hangout for example, and you can't forget the minmatar dancers.
ISD Dorrim > Hey, a fedo!
Thread closed.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
703
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 02:12:07 -
[758] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jade Blackwind wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:- Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment. Well, I'd risk singing along with the Immersion Haters Club here, but please no. Alliance logos, 0.0 outpost names, and countless RacialCitizens1234567 (while they still retain the original names until someone reports them) are bad enough. If you give a player an ability to enter any text or upload any graphic asset into the game, it's countdown to *****. Pink Thorax, I mean. Also, that idea is literally Second Life. That was the short version, the longer version that I have writen at an earlier point in time detailed that it would be a resource for CCP employees to draw upon when assembling interiors. Hence, CCP would be automatically moderating, using, rejecting or sending back feedback for improvements.
I like what Valve does with its "workshop" items for some of its games. Creators submit characters and whatnot for approval. If they look good, meet technical specs and work with the engine properly, and meet established design language, then they are added to a shop for RL cash. The creator gets a cut of all profits from the sale of their items.
The EVE player base is rather small though, so creatives wouldn't stand to make as much money as they do off of Dota2 or TF2. I think creators are also able to test out their models in-engine with Valve games, which we have no way of doing with EVE at the moment.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1270
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 02:27:59 -
[759] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jade Blackwind wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:- Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment. Well, I'd risk singing along with the Immersion Haters Club here, but please no. Alliance logos, 0.0 outpost names, and countless RacialCitizens1234567 (while they still retain the original names until someone reports them) are bad enough. If you give a player an ability to enter any text or upload any graphic asset into the game, it's countdown to *****. Pink Thorax, I mean. Also, that idea is literally Second Life. That was the short version, the longer version that I have writen at an earlier point in time detailed that it would be a resource for CCP employees to draw upon when assembling interiors. Hence, CCP would be automatically moderating, using, rejecting or sending back feedback for improvements. I like what Valve does with its "workshop" items for some of its games. Creators submit characters and whatnot for approval. If they look good, meet technical specs and work with the engine properly, and meet established design language, then they are added to a shop for RL cash. The creator gets a cut of all profits from the sale of their items. The EVE player base is rather small though, so creatives wouldn't stand to make as much money as they do off of Dota2 or TF2. I think creators are also able to test out their models in-engine with Valve games, which we have no way of doing with EVE at the moment. Player submissions could be rewarded with something cosmetic, such as a certain arm tattoo that has an increasing number of dots, snake heads, flower heads and so forth or the player selects one of those tattoos. The increments show how many contributions they have given andwere used by CCP.
(It would also have a defineable number of fairly small textures and make the system fairly simple, while giving people public recognition).
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Albert Madullier
Pan Intergalactic Industries
19
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 10:59:23 -
[760] - Quote
i'd like to see WOS completed, it would be good to walk around and have traders open up their own shops etc etc, dunno how it would work as there'd then be loads of shops, but most shops would specialize in certain stuff |
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
88
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 13:41:25 -
[761] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jade Blackwind wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:- Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment. Well, I'd risk singing along with the Immersion Haters Club here, but please no. Alliance logos, 0.0 outpost names, and countless RacialCitizens1234567 (while they still retain the original names until someone reports them) are bad enough. If you give a player an ability to enter any text or upload any graphic asset into the game, it's countdown to *****. Pink Thorax, I mean. Also, that idea is literally Second Life. That was the short version, the longer version that I have writen at an earlier point in time detailed that it would be a resource for CCP employees to draw upon when assembling interiors. Hence, CCP would be automatically moderating, using, rejecting or sending back feedback for improvements. I like what Valve does with its "workshop" items for some of its games. Creators submit characters and whatnot for approval. If they look good, meet technical specs and work with the engine properly, and meet established design language, then they are added to a shop for RL cash. The creator gets a cut of all profits from the sale of their items. The EVE player base is rather small though, so creatives wouldn't stand to make as much money as they do off of Dota2 or TF2. I think creators are also able to test out their models in-engine with Valve games, which we have no way of doing with EVE at the moment.
There was a time, when CCP made competitions for designing spaceships, so many were done, so many good designs. Maybe if they could announce something like that for clothing, or places behind doors... but I am afraid there is no will in CCP to do something like that, because of current "plan".
Las Vegas for example could be a good place to do that.
http://issuu.com/gregory45/docs/roles role icons for new corporation window
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1518
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 13:52:16 -
[762] - Quote
So what do I get for the tights then? :p
I sincerely doubt CCP has enough people for this ... ... and I'm sure after the 100th Avatar (titan) sextoy they'd be full of it.
.....
*badum tish*
Exit, stage left.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
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Jaiden Solo
Air The Initiative.
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 17:37:23 -
[763] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Aston Martin DB5 wrote:They just didn't deliver what they promised many moons ago. What we received was one captain's quarter at the time (gallente if I recall) and when they first announced WIS they talked about social areas for players, bars, mini games etc etc. and the dev team was light years away from developing it. On top of that they just gave players CQ's instead of players earning through some game mechanic or purchasing it through in game isk. Poorly planned if you ask me but could of been amazing Could HAVE been amazing? People speculating on this forum isn't CCP saying they're doing something. All of the above talk was from this forum. There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen. NOR was the idea of purchasing the Officers Quarters ever mentioned or even considered. The idea, you think it's neat you buy something so you're special? Go play LOTRO.
This game needs Sparkleponies.
And cowbell....
...this definitely needs more cowbell. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2301
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 21:18:13 -
[764] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Most of the structure already exists. Two relatively small investments in effort would be: - The ability to invite someone to your Captain's Quarters. - Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment.
Both are impossible with the present setup. And the structure does not already exist, the glorified tech demo called the CQ already exists, and all it does is ape the hangar functionality, now that it's not burning up graphics cards with poorly optimized textures. Hardly impossible. In fact extremely easy to implement. Plenty of examples out there where single programmers have created environments where multiple players can interact. that greatly improves upon the CQ.
And don't go all spaghetti code on me Walrus, the code to host a station environment is easily plugged in and doesn't need to be connected to EvE code, it just needs a module to securely transfer EvE data from the EvE servers to the WiS servers and back again.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12594
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 21:58:20 -
[765] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Hardly impossible. In fact extremely easy to implement.
And you'd know that, with your fake legal degree and side job as a bar bouncer giving you so much experience with video game engines.
I might not know a goddamned thing about fixing a carburetor, but at least I don't have the pretension to tell the guy I pay to fix it how easy I think his job is.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1533
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 22:31:50 -
[766] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Hardly impossible. In fact extremely easy to implement.
And you'd know that, with your fake legal degree and side job as a bar bouncer giving you so much experience with video game engines. I might not know a goddamned thing about fixing a carburetor, but at least I don't have the pretension to tell the guy I pay to fix it how easy I think his job is. In all seriousness and honesty ... ... could I create a topdown ascii version on windows easily in a day or two ... ... using the eve infrastructure and SSO, so without 3rd party servers ...
... and build up on that ...
... but the dev said "I can not let you do that, Sol" ... ... because I do mean things in ways they were not intended to be done. :(
On the upside, though, is it a funny situation. ^_^ More for me, but still. xD
You know I'm not on IZs side or anyone's mostly anyway ... ... but in general is it really not hard or complicated to throw something working together ... ... and then building up on it.
Nonetheless is this topic so pointless, I could as well count dustgrains and try to remember their individual surface patterns.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1533
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 22:34:52 -
[767] - Quote
Oh wow look at this one, it looks like a snowflake........ :O
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1535
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 22:38:51 -
[768] - Quote
This one looks almost like a pickup truck ! O:
I loved that show with that stuntman and his cool pickup and jumps and all and I even had a c64 game about this with the same music and it was SUPERHARD! :D
Anyway I'm out again. Keep on talking, everyone, because that's working as intended. :)
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
26885
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 23:04:31 -
[769] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I might not know a goddamned thing about fixing a carburetor, but at least I don't have the pretension to tell the guy I pay to fix it how easy I think his job is. I know a lot about carburetors. They're not so complicated.
Chances are I'm charging twice as much as I should while I fix it too.
Also, why are you still even driving a car that has one?
Eve Solecist wrote:Oh wow look at this one, it looks like a snowflake........ :O Checking in.
Bringing Barghest.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
400418
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 23:05:57 -
[770] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Hardly impossible. In fact extremely easy to implement.
And you'd know that, with your fake legal degree and side job as a bar bouncer giving you so much experience with video game engines. I might not know a goddamned thing about fixing a carburetor, but at least I don't have the pretension to tell the guy I pay to fix it how easy I think his job is. In all seriousness and honesty ... ... could I create a topdown ascii version on windows easily in a day or two ... ... using the eve infrastructure and SSO, without 3rd party servers involved at all ... ... and build up on that ... ... but the dev said "I can not let you do that, Sol" ... ... because I do mean things in ways they were not intended to be done. :( (but having half posable, almost naked chicks is okay. *snickers xD*)On the upside, though, is it a funny situation. ^_^ More for me, but still. xD You know I'm not on IZs side or anyone's mostly anyway ... ... but in general is it really not hard or complicated to throw something working together ... ... and then building up on it. Especially when underlying technology is mostly developed already anyway. ^_^ Nonetheless is this topic so pointless, I could as well count dustgrains and try to remember their individual surface patterns.
I'd play top down ASCII WiS, that would be hot ****!
Topdown stuff especially shooters are awesome.
-k8
My Fanclub
|
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1541
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 23:19:06 -
[771] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Hardly impossible. In fact extremely easy to implement.
And you'd know that, with your fake legal degree and side job as a bar bouncer giving you so much experience with video game engines. I might not know a goddamned thing about fixing a carburetor, but at least I don't have the pretension to tell the guy I pay to fix it how easy I think his job is. In all seriousness and honesty ... ... could I create a topdown ascii version on windows easily in a day or two ... ... using the eve infrastructure and SSO, without 3rd party servers involved at all ... ... and build up on that ... ... but the dev said "I can not let you do that, Sol" ... ... because I do mean things in ways they were not intended to be done. :( (but having half posable, almost naked chicks is okay. *snickers xD*)On the upside, though, is it a funny situation. ^_^ More for me, but still. xD You know I'm not on IZs side or anyone's mostly anyway ... ... but in general is it really not hard or complicated to throw something working together ... ... and then building up on it. Especially when underlying technology is mostly developed already anyway. ^_^ Nonetheless is this topic so pointless, I could as well count dustgrains and try to remember their individual surface patterns. I'd play top down ASCII WiS, that would be hot ****! Topdown stuff especially shooters are awesome. You'd see ascii characters only. Well... at first.
Castle Adventure was a wonderfull game! http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/72970-castle-adventure-dos-screenshot-a-demonic-encounters.png
Ask yourself if you would actually pay for someone creating it. Then ask me per mail what I need. And ask me about LOOM! XD
(who doesnt get that one needs to play Monkey Island I and not talk to me before he is through with it and told me how he felt when he reached that stump. I was eight years old and cried.... BUT IT'S ONLY SEVEN DISKS D: .... XD)
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
Ron Gilbert made me cry.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25079
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 23:47:08 -
[772] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Both are impossible with the present setup. And the structure does not already exist, the glorified tech demo called the CQ already exists, and all it does is ape the hangar functionality, now that it's not burning up graphics cards with poorly optimized textures. Hardly impossible. In fact extremely easy to implement. Plenty of examples out there where single programmers have created environments where multiple players can interact. that greatly improves upon the CQ. And don't go all spaghetti code on me Walrus, the code to host a station environment is easily plugged in and doesn't need to be connected to EvE code, it just needs a module to securely transfer EvE data from the EvE servers to the WiS servers and back again. In other words, pretty much impossible with the current setup, and no amount of irrelevant hobby projects will change this.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1555
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 00:43:24 -
[773] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Both are impossible with the present setup. And the structure does not already exist, the glorified tech demo called the CQ already exists, and all it does is ape the hangar functionality, now that it's not burning up graphics cards with poorly optimized textures. Hardly impossible. In fact extremely easy to implement. Plenty of examples out there where single programmers have created environments where multiple players can interact. that greatly improves upon the CQ. And don't go all spaghetti code on me Walrus, the code to host a station environment is easily plugged in and doesn't need to be connected to EvE code, it just needs a module to securely transfer EvE data from the EvE servers to the WiS servers and back again. In other words, pretty much impossible with the current setup, and no amount of irrelevant hobby projects will change this. Well I guess it's time....
There is a lot we can do with CQ as a base.
We take all of the CQ stuff. Code, meshes, sounds.
Then we trash that.
Now we have a great base to start with. There... someone else do the rest, I feel exhausted.
Anyway, a Hobby Project (HANDS OFF THAT NAME) is the most likely way to make it happen. Not with this playerbase of course, but it's the most likely one.
Nope. Not with these players who want it.
Because.... and let me be very clear about this ......
All of you who want WiS simply do not deserve it. Not one bit. None of you. No one.
You did literally NOTHING to even try to make it happen. NULL! NICHTS! Whining on the forums does not count!
It's not a productive activity! You people can't even get **** done on the forums. I showed more power alone on these forums than all of you combined.
All of you combined! I feel ashamed about you people! You are so obsessed with your worthless tiny selfs, desperately screaming for an even better way to escape your sad lives!
Of course not all of you are like that, and I apologise honestly to those who have to suffer from the vast majority of this tiny minority of the eve playerbase!
So to make absolutely sure this is being understood:
There is hopefully no chance in hell you will ever get this and it is ABSOLUTELY YOUR OWN FAULT!
And now let me explain it to you.
Any halfwit would have been able to come up with something. Something! It would not have mattered! Hook it to the API. (lololol) Create ANYTHING! Even an ascii based ****** whatever!
All it needs is a point to be made. Once the point is being made, it can be built upon.
It would not have mattered, as long as people would have used it!
All you ****** consumers ever did, though, is whine! In your delusional state you believe that matters! Like children! Whine enough and it happens!
No one ever lifted a single finger to do anything for WiS. 99.9% of you never did ANYTHING for avatars either!
ZERO!
And yet I bet many of you wear tights, bottomless dresses or catsuits. Or other new apparel. It's what you got because others made an effort for it!
Others. Not you. You are just the slaves who pay and consume! You are DEPENDENT on others to do the work for you, yet you always behave as if what you say matters!
Sadly most of you are losers who do not get anything together.
You deserve exactly what you put into it!
NOTHING AT ALL! And that's why I do not support WiS, which - for those who "get it" - actually makes a huge difference.
I have no sympathy for you lot, because you brought this upon your self.
I pray for CCP to never implement WiS, just so you people get exactly what you deserve.
The one intelligent person that might wake up from his sad life ... ... and realises that there are things that can be done to achieve something ...
.... hahaha who am I kidding??
You will just keep talking ... ... and it's working as intended.
You get out what you put into it.
Nothing!
*kinks*
*walks off*
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
Ron Gilbert made me cry.
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Keyer
STERNENGARDE
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 00:44:06 -
[774] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Tippia wrote:Velarra wrote:More serious question...what happened to the Ambulation project Torfie was promoting and talking about with videos and impressive demo's a little while ago? GǣA little while agoGǥ was 7 years agoGǪ It was unceremoniously trashed and restarted from scratch (twice) due to massive scope creep, lack of planning, and abysmal management. Then the entire staff was laid off and the whole idea abandoned. MMhmmm. See, the following videos finally made me decide to try for the first time, and ultimately subscribe to eve: Ambulation!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzy7DG8VR2s I was especially excited by Torfie's talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t1SKhdCkHM And then there was this absolutely fantastic Fanfest demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeanIPs0yws --- If only as a newb someone had explained early on what "soon" really meant as it relates to Eve. It feels like yesterday, and will not be forgotten.
I totally agree with you there were great ideas and good demos. And if i see how many players are interested in WiS maybe they will consider to give us WiS or just some Parts of it. Like "Invite someone to your CQ" it would boost the RP in Eve :)
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Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 01:12:50 -
[775] - Quote
We have Eve, Dust and with Valkyrie coming soon I see a game where hopefully we can shift back and forth between one or other of the gameplay types (if Dust ever comes to PC that is)
Personally I'd love to walk around my pos, walk down to the blueprint room and over to a console to find the blueprint I want to research/build from, then look up and see out of the window my ship moored at a docking pad.
Sadly I fear this is another decade from becoming a reality, I think CCP don't want another custerfuck like what was the 1st WiS release, which incidentally melted my graphics card. |
Flamespar
WarRavens
1315
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 04:47:41 -
[776] - Quote
people blaming everything on incarna seem to forget the millions of dollars and dev hours that was put into world of darkness.
If that money wasn't wasted on WoD and put into EVE I think things would have turned out very differently.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
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Captain Davison
Malachi Keep Detachments
23
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 05:16:22 -
[777] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote: *Snip lots of rambling, kind of kooky crazy-person ranting and raving.*
Well, uh, okay.
I guess that's your opinion man, but take a bit of a chill pill. If you can't take a chill pill, take a chill strip. Pull one out, put it on the tongue, chill.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
706
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 07:13:11 -
[778] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:people blaming everything on incarna seem to forget the millions of dollars and dev hours that was put into world of darkness.
If that money wasn't wasted on WoD and put into EVE I think things would have turned out very differently.
It kind of was put into EVE. WiS uses tech developed for WoD, and the WoD team was regularly pulled off of WoD to work on WiS.
Maybe this is why so many of us look like vampires. |
Miallia
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
1268
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 08:04:05 -
[779] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Maybe this is why so many of us look like vampires. Pics or it ain't true.
EVE System > Subspace communication beacon unreachable. Channel list unavailable.
|
Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
75
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 11:20:12 -
[780] - Quote
Miallia wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Maybe this is why so many of us look like vampires. Pics or it ain't true. Undeniable proof.
On the other hand, if you look through the portraits that are featured on a site like New Eden Faces, too many Eve characters look rather like psychopaths, which is not too far from vampires, i guess. |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1281
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 20:02:38 -
[781] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Most of the structure already exists. Two relatively small investments in effort would be: - The ability to invite someone to your Captain's Quarters. - Tools to upload graphical assets to CCP to help them make this aesthetic and non-game altering environment.
Both are impossible with the present setup. And the structure does not already exist, the glorified tech demo called the CQ already exists, and all it does is ape the hangar functionality, now that it's not burning up graphics cards with poorly optimized textures. Hardly impossible. In fact extremely easy to implement. Plenty of examples out there where single programmers have created environments where multiple players can interact. that greatly improves upon the CQ. And don't go all spaghetti code on me Walrus, the code to host a station environment is easily plugged in and doesn't need to be connected to EvE code, it just needs a module to securely transfer EvE data from the EvE servers to the WiS servers and back again. To clarify or attempt to do so at least: - I am not talking about code per se, where players upload directly into the game and start animating furniture. - I am talking about a seperate resource where players can dump assets into a "bin" for the developers to use.
Set up correctly and the developer can press a key to "reject" or another to "accept" an asset they want to use. If there is something close but they want it improved, they can "reject" it and add a note on how they want it improved. They can also just cursor key past it and leave it for someone else to use. During upload the players could categorise these assets and there could even be a layer where players can browse the assets for inspiration, to improve things or make things to add to them in the same theme. They could also do a "suggestion" moderation where enough people saying that an object should be more from "walls" to "furniture" would then move that asset into that category. Another form of player moderation could be flagging "that is phallic" and enough of those flags brings it to a GM's attention who can delete it without it even being seen by or exasperating a developer. (There would also be subcategories, weighing off the efficiency of finding something quickly to use by going to the right subcategory vs going through a huge pile of stuff would have to be done CCP side)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
|
Kellie Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
10496
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:44:37 -
[782] - Quote
Inir Ishtori wrote:Miallia wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Maybe this is why so many of us look like vampires. Pics or it ain't true. Undeniable proof.On the other hand, if you look through the portraits that are featured on a site like New Eden Faces, too many Eve characters look rather like psychopaths, which is not too far from vampires, i guess. This one make for very many true. This psychosis in a capsuleers very many much common.
This from a environment, space for make a lonely sometime, need a WiS.
Kellie for support a WiS. Lose arm in a station accident one time, but make manage for get over it, still want a walk in a station. Kellie can lose arm and still want for walk then you can want it too, make for a get over it and get for walking.
Collect all 3 Dusette Sets
(Now available in Thukker Tribe Edition)
Basic Edition | Catcember Edition | Forum Edition
|
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
282
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 13:33:18 -
[783] - Quote
I recently learned that there is site where you can gather money for different kind of projects. That gave me idea: How about crowd funding operation to make Incarna reality?
I was very disappointed when Incarna was cancelled. It was so exciting project. I could gamble ISK on smoky establishments and perhaps create establishment myself. No more ship spinning!
Comments are welcome for my idea!
Wikipedia article about this crowd funding site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiegogo
Link to crowd funding site: http://www.indiegogo.com/
Mikhem
Link library to EVE music songs.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31976
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:08:42 -
[784] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:OK I'll try again.
The issue isn't about what people want. I personally would be delighted to see meaingful avatar gameplay added to EVE, The possibilities of literally adding a new dimension to the game are enormous. Done right, it would pull EVE to the next level.
The issue is that CCP clearly lacks the technical chops, the the organisational talent and above all the financial resources to produce WiS done right. My assessment of the state of things is the same. If it's true, then the hype, i.e. ImagineGäó are lies. In some ways, new subscribers are subject to a bait and switch.
My expectations for EVE have been adjusted a lot over the years, and at this point I've stopped judging. I've accepted EVE as it is.
My expectations for EVE will not change until the company has dev locations in cities that attract talent. In the US, it's cities like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Austin, Atlanta. It's just what real companies do, for the sake of the quality of the product.
Because in practical terms, it's much easier to get people to agree to work at a company if it doesn't involve uprooting themselves, and there are certainly more attractive locations besides Reyk'.
Including me. I don't assume I would get hired, but I would definitely try if it didn't involve moving to Iceland.
I plan to move near Austin anyway, my favorite city of my home state. If CCP had a branch there, I would keep trying to get in and also work for peanuts. I have a simple lifestyle, and art -plus- enjoyment is important to me. **** I'd do it for free but I have one or two annoying expenses like food and shelter and clothing.
But yeah, no, not Iceland. As an artist and an avid EVE player, I wonder why a US location hasn't opened up. A talent pool as big as the US, and it's untapped really. Right now, it looks like nationalism, shrewdness, and bare necessity.
Yes I meant nationalism: patriotism's uglier, irrational brother.
My dev name has to be CCP Sucks. Or, if that's taken, CCP Blows. If they're unwilling to acknowledge player culture, deal is off.
Mikhem wrote:I recently learned that there is site where you can gather money for different kind of projects. That gave me idea: How about crowd funding operation to make Incarna reality? I was very disappointed when Incarna was cancelled. It was so exciting project. I could gamble ISK on smoky establishments and perhaps create establishment myself. No more ship spinning! Comments are welcome for my idea! Wikipedia article about this crowd funding site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiegogo Link to crowd funding site: http://www.indiegogo.com/ I had an F&I thread about this, crowdfunding Incarna, but it was closed by ISD for trolling.
I wasn't trolling, but apparently I was.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I Triumvirate.
875
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:14:55 -
[785] - Quote
Mikhem wrote:I recently learned that there is site where you can gather money for different kind of projects. That gave me idea: How about crowd funding operation to make Incarna reality? I was very disappointed when Incarna was cancelled. It was so exciting project. I could gamble ISK on smoky establishments and perhaps create establishment myself. No more ship spinning! Comments are welcome for my idea! Wikipedia article about this crowd funding site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiegogo Link to crowd funding site: http://www.indiegogo.com/
doubt ccp need any crowd funding and i doubt they are holding off on this because of funding, you can gamble isk on many out of game sites we dont need anything within station to gamble
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11628
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:17:53 -
[786] - Quote
I'll donate money to a crowdfunding site if the objective is to raise enough money to have the word "Incarna" stricken from any and all languages. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31976
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:18:39 -
[787] - Quote
The difference is gambling run by CCP is an ISK sink.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I Triumvirate.
876
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:19:44 -
[788] - Quote
imagine ccp running gambling within the station, buy a plex - lose said plex gambling on ccp system - kick up a fuss because they are scamming you out of rl cash. :/
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31976
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:20:49 -
[789] - Quote
Around here, that's perfectly acceptable and we laugh about it.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1678
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:32:50 -
[790] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:My expectations for EVE will not change until the company has dev locations in cities that attract talent[, ] like [...] Atlanta.
Oh, irony.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
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Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
563
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:35:33 -
[791] - Quote
Didn't this thread have over 80 pages already? |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31976
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:38:04 -
[792] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Rain6637 wrote:My expectations for EVE will not change until the company has dev locations in cities that attract talent[, ] like [...] Atlanta. Oh, irony. That's not irony, it's tragedy.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Eliana Eros
Neon Incorporated 404 Alliance Not Found
32891
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:38:50 -
[793] - Quote
I mean i live in Austin, and would work for them 3 days a week for nothing but gas money and an plex a month. Other 4 days would have to have another job.
Then i could conspire with Rain on how best to sneak Kate and Selene into naughty outfits.
GÖÑ's and Glomps for everyone...well almost everyone.
Ze Goggles
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31976
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:41:23 -
[794] - Quote
Shhhhhhhhhhh damn, stfu
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
404741
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:52:52 -
[795] - Quote
Eliana Eros wrote:I mean i live in Austin, and would work for them 3 days a week for nothing but gas money and an plex a month. Other 4 days would have to have another job.
Then i could conspire with Rain on how best to sneak Kate and Selene into naughty outfits.
Wat?
All you have to do is just ask.
-k8
My Fanclub
|
Eliana Eros
Neon Incorporated 404 Alliance Not Found
32892
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:54:03 -
[796] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:Eliana Eros wrote:I mean i live in Austin, and would work for them 3 days a week for nothing but gas money and an plex a month. Other 4 days would have to have another job.
Then i could conspire with Rain on how best to sneak Kate and Selene into naughty outfits. Wat? All you have to do is just ask.
But, but ummmmmm can you redstar with goggles on and the boots.
GÖÑ's and Glomps for everyone...well almost everyone.
Ze Goggles
|
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
404741
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 15:00:17 -
[797] - Quote
Eliana Eros wrote:Commissar Kate wrote:Eliana Eros wrote:I mean i live in Austin, and would work for them 3 days a week for nothing but gas money and an plex a month. Other 4 days would have to have another job.
Then i could conspire with Rain on how best to sneak Kate and Selene into naughty outfits. Wat? All you have to do is just ask. But, but ummmmmm can you redstar with goggles on and the boots. Sure, I'll have to see if I can dig those out.
-k8
My Fanclub
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31986
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 15:36:07 -
[798] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J3vgcE5i2o
Every thread is a k8 thread.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
DaReaper
Net 7
2252
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 16:31:17 -
[799] - Quote
They still have the office in Atlanta, but atm i have no idea what they are doing there.
I'll say what i said a few months ago in this thread. I think WiS could add stuff tot he game, and should be looked at again.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31988
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 16:32:32 -
[800] - Quote
Accounting, last I heard. The Georgia peach icon in the launcher? After asking about it on Twitter, I was told it is there for the sake of qualifying for tax breaks in Georgia.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1997
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 16:33:18 -
[801] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left. *gets large popcorn* This thread should be interesting.
When a thing has been said and well, have no scruple. Take it and copy it.
- Anatole France
A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought.
- Dorothy L. Sayers
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davet517
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 16:53:32 -
[802] - Quote
It's dead, Jim.
It uses tech that CCP wasted millions on trying to create a vampire game for teenaged girls. There probably aren't even any devs at CCP who know how it works anymore. Enjoy your captain's quarters. That's all you're going to get. |
Ilandrin Yona
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 17:06:30 -
[803] - Quote
davet517 wrote:It's dead, Jim.
It uses tech that CCP wasted millions on trying to create a vampire game for teenaged girls. There probably aren't even any devs at CCP who know how it works anymore. Enjoy your captain's quarters. That's all you're going to get.
I seems to me that the fact that captains quarters haven't been removed indicates that CCP still hopes to one day implement walking in stations. If they didn't why keep the captains quarters? They are completely useless in their current state.
Or is removing them really such a hassle that it's easier to leave them in?
... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... .......
My Eve Biography:
Ilandrin Yona
|
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
590
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 17:58:38 -
[804] - Quote
davet517 wrote:It's dead, Jim.
It uses tech that CCP wasted millions on trying to create a vampire game for teenaged girls. There probably aren't even any devs at CCP who know how it works anymore. Enjoy your captain's quarters. That's all you're going to get. About 80% probability that the poster above is right.
Forget about WiS, in any case it won't be around until most of the current Eve players have moved on. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3466
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 18:21:46 -
[805] - Quote
Ilandrin Yona wrote:davet517 wrote:It's dead, Jim.
It uses tech that CCP wasted millions on trying to create a vampire game for teenaged girls. There probably aren't even any devs at CCP who know how it works anymore. Enjoy your captain's quarters. That's all you're going to get. I seems to me that the fact that captains quarters haven't been removed indicates that CCP still hopes to one day implement walking in stations. If they didn't why keep the captains quarters? They are completely useless in their current state. Or is removing them really such a hassle that it's easier to leave them in? Removing them would be easier than keeping them. Every update, they have to do regression testing to insure they did not somehow break a feature. They have to tests with both CQ on and CQ off. Getting rid of CQ would reduce testing.
CCP has removed features that have proven useless. Remember production teams? They were so little used that CCP decided that the effort to maintain the feature was not worth the effort. But, with CQ, they have decided it IS worth keeping the feature.
Why?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Hendrick Kion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 18:32:22 -
[806] - Quote
I like staring at myself in the CQ mirror while eating bacon. |
davet517
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 18:39:33 -
[807] - Quote
Ilandrin Yona wrote:davet517 wrote:It's dead, Jim.
It uses tech that CCP wasted millions on trying to create a vampire game for teenaged girls. There probably aren't even any devs at CCP who know how it works anymore. Enjoy your captain's quarters. That's all you're going to get. I seems to me that the fact that captains quarters haven't been removed indicates that CCP still hopes to one day implement walking in stations. If they didn't why keep the captains quarters? They are completely useless in their current state. Or is removing them really such a hassle that it's easier to leave them in?
It's a self-contained engine that renders differently from the rest of Eve. Its interfaces to the rest of the game code are pretty thin. I doubt that they do any serious regression testing on it before a release. We're the regression testers. Even some change in the rest of Eve broke it, we'd be slow to notice, and wouldn't really care much.
Removing it wouldn't be a hassle. All they'd have to do is disable a button on the UI, and remove the actual code at their leisure, if ever. No real reason to though. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2252
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 19:29:16 -
[808] - Quote
Jade Blackwind wrote:davet517 wrote:It's dead, Jim.
It uses tech that CCP wasted millions on trying to create a vampire game for teenaged girls. There probably aren't even any devs at CCP who know how it works anymore. Enjoy your captain's quarters. That's all you're going to get. About 80% probability that the poster above is right. Forget about WiS, in any case it won't be around until most of the current Eve players have moved on.
not really. Most of the summer of rage had nothing to do with incarnia.
It had to do with the other three factors plus incarnia. Players got more mad that time was wasted and we were lied to,
CCP coudl easily do more wiht WiS, and that code they wasted millions on is not just thrown away, its just not being worked on.
I think there will be stuff with the CQ coming in the future, unless ccp has again changed gears on the all eve on pc thing
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
338
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 20:01:30 -
[809] - Quote
Mikhem wrote:I recently learned that there is site where you can gather money for different kind of projects. That gave me idea: How about crowd funding operation to make Incarna reality? I was very disappointed when Incarna was cancelled. It was so exciting project. I could gamble ISK on smoky establishments and perhaps create establishment myself. No more ship spinning! Comments are welcome for my idea! Wikipedia article about this crowd funding site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiegogo Link to crowd funding site: http://www.indiegogo.com/
You have awaken from hibernation few years later than you should.
Somehow ISD dont closed this thread? Funny. They usually close everyone and don't even redirect you to any proper one. Dude, how did you found this thread? I searched it by this crippled forum search and got only locked ones. Did you make some excavations with actual clicking thru the whole GD history? There is no google results that are even close to this thread, as if someone tagged it as "midgets zquizing their hairy nipples porn" or "japanese babes with a baloon sized feet fetish". |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
567
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 21:31:41 -
[810] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Mikhem wrote:I recently learned that there is site where you can gather money for different kind of projects. That gave me idea: How about crowd funding operation to make Incarna reality? I was very disappointed when Incarna was cancelled. It was so exciting project. I could gamble ISK on smoky establishments and perhaps create establishment myself. No more ship spinning! Comments are welcome for my idea! Wikipedia article about this crowd funding site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiegogo Link to crowd funding site: http://www.indiegogo.com/ You have awaken from hibernation few years later than you should. Somehow ISD dont closed this thread? Funny. They usually close everyone and don't even redirect you to any proper one. Dude, how did you found this thread? I searched it by this crippled forum search and got only locked ones. Did you make some excavations with actual clicking thru the whole GD history? There is no google results that are even close to this thread, as if someone tagged it as "midgets zquizing their hairy nipples porn" or "japanese babes with a baloon sized feet fetish". Now YOU are a real sunshine, aren't you? |
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Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
284
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 22:20:41 -
[811] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:You have awaken from hibernation few years later than you should. Somehow ISD dont closed this thread? Funny. They usually close everyone and don't even redirect you to any proper one. Dude, how did you found this thread? I searched it by this crippled forum search and got only locked ones. Did you make some excavations with actual clicking thru the whole GD history? There is no google results that are even close to this thread, as if someone tagged it as "midgets zquizing their hairy nipples porn" or "japanese babes with a baloon sized feet fetish". Thanks for finding this thread goes to ISD Ezwal. I made search with word Incarna in topic section and third answer is made by ISD Ezwal.
Here is link for this search: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&topic=incarna
This is official Incarna thread! Incarna For The Win! The best computer game plan ever made. I wish it could become reality!
Mikhem
Link library to EVE music songs.
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Lulu Lunette
Custodes Olim United Systems of Aridia
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 22:27:06 -
[812] - Quote
I love Captains Quarters.
@lunettelulu7
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31998
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 06:51:50 -
[813] - Quote
Ok, I wasn't completely forthcoming. I would mostly work for CCP to find out for myself what is really going on. I have a feeling I would leave after one too many times when a discussion is terminated with "well I disagree" with no logic to support the sentiment.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10559
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 07:51:00 -
[814] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Jade Blackwind wrote:davet517 wrote:It's dead, Jim.
It uses tech that CCP wasted millions on trying to create a vampire game for teenaged girls. There probably aren't even any devs at CCP who know how it works anymore. Enjoy your captain's quarters. That's all you're going to get. About 80% probability that the poster above is right. Forget about WiS, in any case it won't be around until most of the current Eve players have moved on. not really. Most of the summer of rage had nothing to do with incarnia. It had to do with the other three factors plus incarnia. Players got more mad that time was wasted and we were lied to, CCP coudl easily do more wiht WiS, and that code they wasted millions on is not just thrown away, its just not being worked on. I think there will be stuff with the CQ coming in the future, unless ccp has again changed gears on the all eve on pc thing That's more or less what he said right there, you are agreeing with him. Really to define it, they quit working on EVE for months and months and months and months and months to develop Carbon so they can market a new magic bullet for other developers to license - and to make WoD with it as well (which was a total failure). EVE was left to rot, broken, for a very long time, only to reveal some broken catwalk system. I don't think they ever managed to license Carbon out to anyone either.
Ontop of that, "greed is good" was exposed along with the crazy microtransaction pricing on barbie doll apparel (monoclegate), for a game we already paid for and still pay by subscription, even if spaceships were just left to rot. I canceled my sub for I think 8mos not sure if I'd ever come back. Didn't until they started fixing the game anyway.
All the "we want WiS" griping after all this time is still amusing though, keep up the good work It's not even a "back burner" project, that team was disbanded long ago, CCP has restructured. Maybe you should be looking into SC Online if you are still so upset? hehehaha
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1776
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 13:07:08 -
[815] - Quote
WiS another dead limb of CCP's development that could still produce fruit.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Eliana Eros
Neon Incorporated 404 Alliance Not Found
32910
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 14:15:37 -
[816] - Quote
Came back to see Kate update pictures. Sadly no links or in game mails.
Now i have to comment on this again...something something....WiS where you could sit on couch with a neighbor and watch the wanted members of eve update...something promiscuous Kate.
GÖÑ's and Glomps for everyone...well almost everyone.
Ze Goggles
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Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1683
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 14:35:28 -
[817] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Really to define it, they quit working on EVE for months and months and months and months and months to develop Carbon so they can market a new magic bullet for other developers to license - and to make WoD with it as well (which was a total failure). EVE was left to rot, broken, for a very long time, only to reveal some broken catwalk system. I don't think they ever managed to license Carbon out to anyone either.
No, but they did manage to totally overhaul the way it handled messages, speeding up the game and making Time Dilation possible. It was not a wasted effort, it just fell short of the (admittedly ambitious) mark.
And really, "one engine to rule them all" is the sort of thing that only sounds good in a corporate suite. Engines are tools. You use whatever's appropriate for the job.
Webvan wrote:edit: oh and just to mention, the new/restructured CCP has done a good job with Carbon, improving the space ship part of the game over the years. Still lots to do, but would not even be close to where they are at today if WiS had continued. Likely CCP would have closed down years ago.
You mean they started work again in earnest after taking a couple of years off to work on the rest of the game and investigate the feasibility of the improvements they wanted to make. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all, but burying the considerable amount of work that went into CARBON messaging because you don't like WiS is dumb.
Webvan wrote:They will only maintain WiS, not build on it, more or less just a platform to launch into these other games. Lots of vids to watch, get cracking.
Maintaining it isn't free. Just ask the guys who are tasked with keeping the Mac client running. Also, the character creator is the first part of the game that new players are exposed to. If it doesn't look good, EVE doesn't look good. So they have people who work on it. Not very many, granted, but it's not being ignored.
The sad part is that if WiS had been trusted to the Atlanta team we might very well have it. They had some really slick tools for rapidly developing beautiful areas.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Svenja Timofeyeva
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
146
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 15:19:46 -
[818] - Quote
CCP had no intention to license off their engine. They explicitely stated so.
Simple google for "carbon engine license ccp" shows any claim of contrary is wrong. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
465
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 17:02:59 -
[819] - Quote
davet517 wrote:It's dead, Jim.
It uses tech that CCP wasted millions on trying to create a vampire game for teenaged girls. .
Again I love it how people who know jack **** about World of Darkness run their mouth off about it. It was in the works long before Twilight became a thing, and they were obligated to work on the MMO as part of the CCP / White Wolf merger. White Wolf kept its end of the bargain by making the EVE Online CCG (Collectible Card Game), CCP did not. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1776
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 19:42:25 -
[820] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: wrote:Ilandrin Yona]Or is removing them really such a hassle that it's easier to leave them in? Removing them would be easier than keeping them. Every update, they have to do regression testing to insure they did not somehow break a feature. They have to tests with both CQ on and CQ off. Getting rid of CQ would reduce testing. Poor code design if this is the case. Disregarding the user interface it is almost a separate game. The code should reflex that. Calling upon the exact same libraries and not having two sets creates the work that you speak of. Apart the CQ can remain unchanged indefinately.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
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Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1684
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 20:09:34 -
[821] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Poor code design if this is the case.
Only if you assume that they never make any changes to the code, and only if you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, and regression testing is necessary to make sure that no changes to WINE have broken CQ. It's not an academic concern; for a long time, CQ and vanilla WINE didn't get along at all.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Disregarding the user interface it is almost a separate game. The code should reflex that.
Should, yes. But this is the EVE codebase we're talking about, where literally every object in space knows how to be a drone and a pirate.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10564
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 23:36:08 -
[822] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:No, but they did manage to totally overhaul the way it handled messages, speeding up the game and making Time Dilation possible. It was not a wasted effort, it just fell short of the (admittedly ambitious) mark. All that came later, after they quit playing with dolls. They have done a lot of work with the Carbon system (as I already said), but back then it was all about Barbie, not the spaceship game. People were friggin fuming, which brought on the reiteration phase eventually (the point I came back). It's not the first time they upgraded the engine, I remember the one before that. But that one, they didn't abandon the spaceship game to make avatars while leaving EVE broken and failing.
CCP now, well, look to things like Legion if you want that avatar play. If that door ever "opens" you'll likely load into another game. Much more realistic long-term plan. I don't think any spaceship game that has used avatars had an easy time with it. Not current mmo games and not past mmo games (e.g. EnB & SWG). CCP had even a harder time doing it, not even reaching the basic interaction as EnB did... which btw was very basic in that regard and never went further, in fact the game wound up being abandoned sadly... for EA Land funding (i.e. what they renamed from SIMS Online) boo. For SWG, the hit was to the spaceship game, delayed release and core game was a very dirty and buggy release due to it, one of the worst mmo launches in history. They had to push spaceships back until the later expansion as having ships and avatars was so complicated they could not launch it together but had to go back and recode it all over again. And because of the technical limitations of the two, spaceship remained sort of meh in that game.
Current games doing this are struggling, especially after they pump out so much hype about it then fail to deliver. But if they study history, maybe they wouldn't repeat those mistakes of promising so much where the norm is technically a very difficult road by example. I think even CCP has come to terms with history at this point, having already been an unfortunate victim of it's own history though. |
Commissar Rain
Team Evil
563
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 01:15:22 -
[823] - Quote
They just need to get it over with and completely wipe out all traces of avatars from the game.
Member of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1777
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 01:54:49 -
[824] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ... CCP don't. They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only. Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10566
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 02:54:07 -
[825] - Quote
Commissar Rain wrote:They just need to get it over with and completely wipe out all traces of avatars from the game. Well we know they are not going to do that, the avatars are suppose to be part of some bridge between games. Also AUR sales for apparel I think is sufficient to maintain the existing avatar system how it is. Oh wait, sorry, I know, it's about the tears Yup! Couldn't agree moar, get rid of 'em!!
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
401
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 10:36:16 -
[826] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ... CCP don't. They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only. Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds. Well officially yes. However unofficially they support stock standard wine pretty well. We very rarely have a problem that is not resolved in under a week. I have had probably a total of 9 days i couldn't log on with stock wine in the almost 3 years of playing eve.
I suspect at least a few devs use wine. Since i havn't used windows for 10 years and won't buy a mac, if wine stops working i will be unlikely to keep playing. If that is some lame WiS dependency for some second life irrelevant game play. Doubly so on not subbing.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1793
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 09:47:48 -
[827] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ... CCP don't. They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only. Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds. Well officially yes. However unofficially they support stock standard wine pretty well. We very rarely have a problem that is not resolved in under a week. I have had probably a total of 9 days i couldn't log on with stock wine in the almost 3 years of playing eve. EVE used to run natively on Linux
I feel that the timing was poor luck. The Linux gaming community is burgeoning. More and more people are using the OS because there is such mouse happy, user friendly flavours such as Ubuntu.
When Valve converted their games to run natively on Linux, they discovered that all this time Nvidia had a hardware fault and DirectX was working around it. As a result this caused a lot of graphical problems with ATI / AMD cards. They also found that their games run far, far better on Linux now.
So, I wonder ... would some work in Linux maybe uncover better ways to render our avatars so that a number of them can be rendered without melting the average user's graphic's card?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
614
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 09:51:50 -
[828] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ... CCP don't. They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only. Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds. Well officially yes. However unofficially they support stock standard wine pretty well. We very rarely have a problem that is not resolved in under a week. I have had probably a total of 9 days i couldn't log on with stock wine in the almost 3 years of playing eve. EVE used to run natively on LinuxI feel that the timing was poor luck. The Linux gaming community is burgeoning. More and more people are using the OS because there is such mouse happy, user friendly flavours such as Ubuntu. When Valve converted their games to run natively on Linux, they discovered that all this time Nvidia had a hardware fault and DirectX was working around it. As a result this caused a lot of graphical problems with ATI / AMD cards. They also found that their games run far, far better on Linux now. So, I wonder ... would some work in Linux maybe uncover better ways to render our avatars so that a number of them can be rendered without melting the average user's graphic's card? Like using OpenGL instead?
omg i need to redo my picture!
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1793
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 11:09:32 -
[829] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Like using OpenGL instead? Is suspect you are teasing. However, Personally, I would go for OpenGL because I support operating system independence. (One reason that I love Wurm Online is that it is done in Java and can run on almost anything)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
614
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 11:23:55 -
[830] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Like using OpenGL instead? Is suspect you are teasing. However, Personally, I would go for OpenGL because I support operating system independence. (One reason that I love Wurm Online is that it is done in Java and can run on almost anything) No, I'm not teasing. OpenGL simply is the better choice for many reasons, including compatability, features and ease-of-use.
omg i need to redo my picture!
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1793
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 15:51:22 -
[831] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:... No, I'm not teasing. OpenGL simply is the better choice for many reasons, including compatability, features and ease-of-use. +1 Now the important question: Would it render mammaries better for young newbies?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Raven Null
Jarlhettur's Drop
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 03:40:10 -
[832] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. It's a little more complicated than that. The rundown... - CCP spent more than a year developing it - While developing it, CCP basically ignored a whole bunch of "little" problems and imbalances throughout the game - the half-joking phrase " in 18 months" was coined from the above points (because that was how long we were told before CCP would get back to working on "other things") - CCP kept praising and hyping up WiS (Walking in Station) - Everyone hated the Dramiel. - The Captain's Quarters was finally released. ------ We got one room (Minmatar) and no access to the rest of the station (because no content had actually been made). ------ It was both buggy and a major resource hog (some video cards overheated) ------ The Captain's Quarters was "not optional." In fact... the original station view was removed entirely. If you disabled the Captains Quarters you would be given a static image of your ship in the hanger (see: no station spinning). ------ The Captain's Quarters was revealed mostly to be a R&D thing for the future... and players were all being used as "beta-testers." - Microtransactions were introduced. ------ The Microtransaction items costed way more than "micro-amounts" (there was a Monocle that costed about $70 USD in PLEX... shirts and pants were no better). - A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game). - Players revolted. ------ The forums were filled with flames and rage and ranting. ------ A "substantial" amount of players threatened to unsubscribe (I think it was 10% of the total playerbase) ------ Players went to Jita and began to shoot at a monument indefinitely to show their discontent. - CCP stayed stubbornly (and infuriatingly) silent about the whole thing. ------ The CSM was requested by CCP to come to Iceland and talk about the situation. - When CCP made their first public statement about the whole thing they attempted to rationalize it. ------ Players got angrier. - CCP acquiesced. ------- An apology was written by CCP's CEO himself (though, there are rumors that it may have been ghostwritten). ------- Players were promised that "gold ammo" type items would never become a thing. Microtransactions would be limited strictly to "vanity" stuff or things that were already available in some form (basically, "lateral benefits") ------- A new hanger view was made... just like the old one. ------- Captains Quarters view was made "optional." ------- CCP promised to refocus their efforts on space related stuff and work on all the "little things" that players had been basically begging for for almost 2 years. - CCP silently put WiS on the backburner. - The Crucible Expansion was released 6 months later. - Players rejoice. - Many "little" things are fixed and/or polished. - Some interesting things are introduced (i.e. Attack Battlecruisers) - Some old favorites were brought back (i.e. engine trails) - The current ship rebalancing efforts more or less started here. - Subscriptions hit an all time high (at the time). - Today... ------ WiS still brings up some bad memories. ------ It probably IS being worked on... somewhere in the background. ------ the biggest problem (that I see) is making it fit into the larger EVE universe without taking away from the space part of it. tldr; Walking in Station was delayed/shelved due to a whole combination of events (poor planning, poor investments, poor execution, poor public relations) that led to an explosion of frustration among the playerbase (which had been building for some time). People are still sensitive about the whole thing.
Do you think WiS will ever become a thing? I really like the idea and would love to see it one day... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16738
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 04:12:18 -
[833] - Quote
It's not going to happen.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11368
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 04:49:28 -
[834] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:It didn't happen. ftfy
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3849
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 06:50:44 -
[835] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:It's not going to happen.
PCU rising back from 2007 to 2011 levels is something that's not going to happen neither.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16739
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 07:25:26 -
[836] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's not going to happen. PCU rising back from 2007 to 2011 levels is something that's not going to happen neither.
Why don't you post that in the 40 page thread where I claimed it would.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Tyler Startide
Furor Teutonicus Lux Aetherna
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 07:37:26 -
[837] - Quote
Why do people want this at all? I don't get it. It doesn't add any form of gameplay and it's just a worse interface than the standard station interface. It might be nice once to walk around a little bit but after that it's just a fancy, but worse interface that doesn't add anything to the game and takes a lot of resources to develop. |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
142
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 08:49:30 -
[838] - Quote
I want
Being a CEO I do a lot of menue cruising and typing. Would be nice to do that from the local pub |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
95
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 10:02:42 -
[839] - Quote
Tyler Startide wrote:Why do people want this at all? I don't get it. It doesn't add any form of gameplay and it's just a worse interface than the standard station interface.
If the original ideas of casinos and bars would have been implemented it would have added some real new content and opened up new careers. While I don't think a Second Life-like EVE would really have worked, it would at least added another level to the game that it is lacking compared to other games.
I mostly miss an easy version of showing a newbie around. EVE is already rather harsh, and having an avatar to literally hand-hold someone around is a great way to recruit new players. Sure, once he is in his ship I can make a fleet and warp him around, but what does he learn from that? In other games he gets to WASD around and learns the controls while following my avatar (never mind that there is no relevant content to show then, contrary to "follow me and I show you where you need to kill the rats are"). I cannot hand him weapons or show him how to do something, it's literally me typing "now press F1".
Also when trying to show EVE to friends it usually became really awkward after they created their avatars and were trying to meet up with me. They spent a lot of time and effort to make their characters look like they want, and then they realize it's basically wasted time because no one is going to take the effort to look at them since its a bunch of clicks you have to do and there's no point in it.
IMO CCP should either scrap the CQ completely (AUR sales and clothes be damned) or expand them to something meaningful, if only to remove that awkward moment of "Hey, I told you all the time to just hurry through the generation process and get some skills into your queue!".
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11370
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 10:04:27 -
[840] - Quote
Darth Terona wrote:I want
Being a CEO I do a lot of menue cruising and typing. Would be nice to do that from the local pub Well maybe you guys should just raise all hell. Like when the jita riots happened. But since less people... maybe all hold hands, sit on your CQ couches and biomass all together. Yeah, that'll send CCP a message, don't mess with WiS development.
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
210
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 10:15:00 -
[841] - Quote
Walking In Stations.......
Techincally it wouldnt cause lag to system server if allowed to load like a seperate game.
Those crying about "space barbie" etc, why would you care if some paid CCP to log in and spend a large portion of their time as real merchants, bar owners, playing in actual approved in game gambling instead of 3rd party crap. If those players are paying a sub or plxing up some how.....well CCP would have more revenue for those that spend most of their time in space.
Overall WiS could potentially be the needed requirement for better immersion into the RP side of things, again a chance to bringing in those type of players.
Face it, EvE is a long way from dying off....but I would love WiS, the chance to occasionally walk hallways, visit stores, play a bit of poker or real slot machines, smoking and joking in a social enviorment, and maybe see the occasional shoot out between players or local station security.
Ive played many games like Final Fantasy 7 & 8, the entire line of Elder Scrolls, Phantasy Star, things like that....and besies the actual game value, yes it i thought it was cool both in graphics and immersion. I'm about to be 40, and i personally feel EvE needs to start being fleshed in more ways than just balancing ships. We need more ways to entice players of different styles an attitude to keep the revenue coming in.....or well, one day EvE will just close one day with or without warning, CCP will just flip the switch and it will be announced later on the Mittani or some other site why it happened after the fact.
Face it, those like me getting older. The younger generations need flashy. Dust514 maybe a key to getting some involved from the FPS realms.....but i have even heard some of them starting to ask why they can not integrate better with EvE. CCP most likely should of just not worked on WoD, pfft what a waste. But now they have a chance to invest only in the EvE universe and they should. Us veterans should not be knocking WiS, we should be asking for it, and asking for it to be done right. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11379
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 10:47:38 -
[842] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Ive played many games like Final Fantasy 7 & 8, the entire line of Elder Scrolls, Phantasy Star, things like that....and besies the actual game value, yes it i thought it was cool both in graphics and immersion. Well you have those games to play, don't you?! Why does EVE need to become like all those? Why cant EVE just be EVE? And all the other ones like WoW, and LoL, and SL, and SC, why can't they be just what they are? Like SWG, they wanted to just change everything to get new players in, and what happened?
Oh well, doesn't matter, CCP rightfully ditched WiS long ago. If it had been possible, they would have continued development. Oh... that's right, WoD
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
207
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 11:32:29 -
[843] - Quote
The real issue With EVE is that it just suits the pure fighterpilots. I would assume EVE would attract much more players if they had WiS..... and non the least, have planets where People could land on, visit settlements. Have spacewalk as a possibility, which give players ability to enter structures thats not dockable. And EVE's perspective on what "exploring" is, is completely screwed. Let player go inside unkown structures, explore dark strange systems, see strange planets With unknown anaomilies that screwes up ur view on reality and normality. EVE should been a much more allround game, and i think its strange in their 12-13 year existance, they have narrowed the window to expand and just developed useless skins and AddOns for pvp and pve.... the most borring part of eve. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2047
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 12:42:02 -
[844] - Quote
Webvan wrote:[quote=Darth Terona]... But since less people... maybe all hold hands, sit on your CQ couches and biomass all together. ... Come on guys, you can do it! ... We need a leader! You will have to be the example that we follow!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1713
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 14:25:40 -
[845] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ... CCP don't. They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only. Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds.
I can tell you with 100% certainty, as a lifelong Mac user, that the Mac client is not native. It's a Windows client running on a customized build of WINE called Cider, specifically optimized for game ports. You can even look inside the installation and find the P: "drive" (also a folder) and the whole set of top-level Windows folders inside.
This is industry standard practice by now.
It's true that they used to do that for Linux, too, but they don't anymore, so Linux users have to run it on WINE themselves.
Now, back to topic:
Webvan wrote:All that came later, after they quit playing with dolls
Nope. Here's just one example from 2011, following up on a dev blog from 2010. Or this, also from 2010. There are plenty more, that's just what I could find in 5 minutes.
The Incarna era has been badly mythologized.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11390
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 15:25:06 -
[846] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ... CCP don't. They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only. Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds. I can tell you with 100% certainty, as a lifelong Mac user, that the Mac client is not native. It's a Windows client running on a customized build of WINE called Cider, specifically optimized for game ports. You can even look inside the installation and find the P: "drive" (also a folder) and the whole set of top-level Windows folders inside. This is industry standard practice by now. It's true that they used to do that for Linux, too, but they don't anymore, so Linux users have to run it on WINE themselves. Now, back to topic: Webvan wrote:All that came later, after they quit playing with dolls Nope. Here's just one example from 2011, following up on a dev blog from 2010. Or this, also from 2010. There are plenty more, that's just what I could find in 5 minutes. The Incarna era has been badly mythologized. Tidi was released in 2012, dolls in 2011. Time usually goes in just one direction. Even your in development link is after incarna.
Is that your oldest character?
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2005
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Posted - 2015.07.22 16:21:57 -
[847] - Quote
Well...it's all pretty much moot points now, anyway. Let's just keep enjoying the EvE we have...
"Cats? I like them and I don't like them".
- Erwin Schrödinger
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Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1713
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Posted - 2015.07.22 16:34:11 -
[848] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Tidi was released in 2012, dolls in 2011. Time usually goes in just one direction. Even your in development link is after incarna.
And reading is fundamental. The work that made Time Dilation possible was done during Incarna.
Webvan wrote:Is that your oldest character?
Yes. Does it matter? Someone who goes back and voraciously devours all the technical dev blogs about CARBON out of professional curiosity (I'm a software developer) is going to know more about what happened than someone who just played the game through that period.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2049
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Posted - 2015.07.22 16:38:18 -
[849] - Quote
Theory. Experience.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11877
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 16:49:17 -
[850] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Max Deveron wrote:Ive played many games like Final Fantasy 7 & 8, the entire line of Elder Scrolls, Phantasy Star, things like that....and besies the actual game value, yes it i thought it was cool both in graphics and immersion. Well you have those games to play, don't you?! Why does EVE need to become like all those? Why cant EVE just be EVE? And all the other ones like WoW, and LoL, and SL, and SC, why can't they be just what they are? Like SWG, they wanted to just change everything to get new players in, and what happened? Oh well, doesn't matter, CCP rightfully ditched WiS long ago. If it had been possible, they would have continued development. Oh... that's right, WoD
Because for many people on this earth, good enough is never good enough lol. You and I both can probably remember many games (and other experiences, like movie sequels) that were originally great that turned into not so great as it's makers tried to force it "higher and higher" rather than trust in natural gradual evolution.
We've seen what happens when CCP bites off more than it can chew. We've seen (multiple times now) what happens when CCP tries to shoehorn 'revolutionary new' things into an EVE that wasn't built for it (which is why we don't have atmospheric flight, avatar play beyond a single room/EVA gameplay or useful DUST/EVE linkage).
And yet the unrealistically (read: delusional) optimistic types keep calling for CCP to over extend again in the non-existent hope that a single success among years of total failure will "draw in new players". I find the whole ting to be incredible.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2049
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Posted - 2015.07.22 16:52:52 -
[851] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:... I find the whole ting to be incredible. Avoid the ting.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Varg Euronymous
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2015.07.22 17:07:59 -
[852] - Quote
Station atmosphere not yet decontaminated for capsuleer consumption. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
1238
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 18:24:48 -
[853] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left.
they should have called it shooting in station and all would have been different
SpaceJunkys on YouTube - Harry Forever on the Forums
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Borascus
637
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Posted - 2015.07.22 18:47:58 -
[854] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Well you have those games to play, don't you?! Why does EVE need to become like all those? Why cant EVE just be EVE? And all the other ones like WoW, and LoL, and SL, and SC, why can't they be just what they are? Like SWG, they wanted to just change everything to get new players in, and what happened? Oh well, doesn't matter, CCP rightfully ditched WiS long ago. If it had been possible, they would have continued development. Oh... that's right, WoD
CCP should focus on putting in WiS and cross-platform porting DUST (as Defiance did) with the money they spend on peripheral development, Occulus:Valkyrie is more important right now.
Secondary should be EVE WiS.
Somewhere, during the Zombie development stage, the idea of a Vampire game came up, and it didn't materialise.
It would have been a hard judgement call to turn round and say "ok bloodsuckers you are all leaving EVE to play in this avatar-based game called WoD".
It really would have been easier to say "ok bloodsuckers, soon you'll be able to impress other players with clothes, monocles and chat in stations for 1hr a day - any longer and your clone dies, making you a 20mil permadeath shiptoon" |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32067
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Posted - 2015.07.22 19:28:26 -
[855] - Quote
Guys. And girls. Making characters walk around in a 3D environment is one of the hardest undertakings in the video game industry. The format isn't that great to begin with. There are one or two console games that feature a walking avatar, but that's it.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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captain skinback
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out. Ushra'Khan
6
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Posted - 2015.07.22 20:35:44 -
[856] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Guys. And girls. Making characters walk around in a 3D environment is one of the hardest undertakings in the video game industry. The format isn't that great to begin with. There are one or two console games that feature a walking avatar, but that's it.
Rigging skeletons is hard ok. well it might be for a 12 year old game thats cracking at the core. |
Marsha Mallow
2369
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Posted - 2015.07.22 20:58:04 -
[857] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Guys. And girls. Making characters walk around in a 3D environment is one of the hardest undertakings in the video game industry. The format isn't that great to begin with. There are one or two console games that feature a walking avatar, but that's it. What about 'ladies'? Btw I saw this the other day and thought of several people ingame and a few in this thread.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
ISD Ezwal wrote: Nope, no one will get banned for 'rubbing'
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Cydonia Meridian
Absolute Massive Destruction Massive Erectile Dysfunction
20
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Posted - 2015.07.22 21:02:11 -
[858] - Quote
I love WiS for two reasons: 1. Eve has an incredible character creator, and WiS lets you actually use the avatar, if only a little. I'm honestly surprised that the Character Creator is one of the best I've used, and this game is about spaceships, not bodies. 2. It gives me moments to pretend that this game isn't just a sequel to "Fun With Spreadsheets! Spaceship Edition."
That said, I don't think it needs improvement, but I would support some development effort going into it. I don't know the history beyond what's said in this post, but although freezing everything else seems way over the top, a few devs improving it would be nice.
The game engine is not based on body-body interactions so I would never expect more than a few characters, or in depth or even good animations, but just 2 players sitting down at a table and bringing up another spreadsheet, sorry, window, with a card game would be neat. Really, I would just like to see some things accessible by WiS that aren't available in the Hangar ('lateral benefits' only, of course) like maybe the Character Customization, or even minor new content. Hell, going up to the screen in CQ, and playing that card game remotely without being in the same CQ would be neat. I guess I'd just like a small reason to use it more often.
I wouldn't be too sad if it wasn't there, but I do enjoy using it every once in a while, and I bet there are a lot of players that share this view.
And yes, I would make a one time payment to enable CQ for my character, or even just upgrade/alter it. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
307
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 22:09:31 -
[859] - Quote
CCP Zulu wrote:
And we've seen a very positive trend coming out of the Incarna expansion, both in terms of subscribed users and in terms of trial users.
source: http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/guides/politics/micro-conference
Regards, a Freelancer
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11405
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Posted - 2015.07.22 23:44:38 -
[860] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Webvan wrote:Tidi was released in 2012, dolls in 2011. Time usually goes in just one direction. Even your in development link is after incarna. And reading is fundamental. The work that made Time Dilation possible was done during Incarna. Webvan wrote:Is that your oldest character? Yes. Does it matter? Someone who goes back and voraciously devours all the technical dev blogs about CARBON out of professional curiosity (I'm a software developer) is going to know more about what happened than someone who just played the game through that period. Again, tidi and all actual improvements to the game came after WiS, as I said after they quit playing with dolls. And your links only show this to be true, even if you don't understand what you posted, or anyone else has said. And yeah, it matters a lot about you actually being here or not when accusations of "mythologizing" are thrown around. At this point I doubt you were, probably just saw the controversy on some gamers blog and got fascinated with it all. Maybe not so much the game but just a platform to shitpost and do make believe tears all over etc. Well you always have those other EVE-killerGäó games you like so much, maybe in time they will be worthy of your trollings there.
Jenn aSide wrote: (read: delusional) ^^
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
210
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Posted - 2015.07.23 03:11:51 -
[861] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Max Deveron wrote:Ive played many games like Final Fantasy 7 & 8, the entire line of Elder Scrolls, Phantasy Star, things like that....and besies the actual game value, yes it i thought it was cool both in graphics and immersion. Well you have those games to play, don't you?! Why does EVE need to become like all those? Why cant EVE just be EVE? And all the other ones like WoW, and LoL, and SL, and SC, why can't they be just what they are? Like SWG, they wanted to just change everything to get new players in, and what happened? Oh well, doesn't matter, CCP rightfully ditched WiS long ago. If it had been possible, they would have continued development. Oh... that's right, WoD
Nobody said anything about changing anything, but adding to it. Btw the games you listed, never played them....whats is SL and SC anyway? and i assume SWG was star wars galaxies?
Also on a personal note, quit being a **** it just makes you sound like a blowhard and a moron. Been playing this game about as long as you have, but by your attitude it sounds like your more comfortable playing an FPS or combat flight sim. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11416
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 05:03:57 -
[862] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:
Nobody said anything about changing anything, but adding to it. -blah blah snip snip- Been playing this game about as long as you have, but by your attitude it sounds like your more comfortable playing an FPS or combat flight sim.
Hey cool, so you first logged into EVE around the time castor or exodus. OK then you should totally understand, no need to lecture you. You should already know how important it is to just fix stuff, not leave stuff broken for great periods of time to go create something else that'll be broken for great periods of time.
And since you were here while they worked on incarna, you know how even doing anything at all with the flight simula... er flight spaceship simulator (or submarine wars?) in regards to just fixing this game was more or less abandoned. But your theory that if they had kept working on the sims onlin... WiS, EVE would still be in it's better shape today compared to before they got called out on it all? This logic eludes me, to have experienced what you did and how you could suggest EVE would be just the same in the spaceship game if CCP had just gone on tooling with WiS to just add to this game. I'd give you a game suggestion to go off and play as well, but sorry, The SIMS Online closed long ago. Maybe angry birds?
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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The Mach
STEEL CITY. Illuminati Confirmed.
5
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Posted - 2015.07.23 05:04:00 -
[863] - Quote
I know we blew up the monument. Yes you listened *looks at CCP* Pretty good work so far Take another look at it It would create a more immersive game for new players and i like targets +1 to WIS now that you have a better game.
... and go |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2052
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 10:19:57 -
[864] - Quote
I keep seeing people writing, "EVE is about the people and the social networks you create," then I see all the people opposed to EVE players interacting in people shapes.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Wacktopia
Noir. No Not Believing
803
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Posted - 2015.07.23 11:10:32 -
[865] - Quote
The dichotomy of WIS:
- Vets don't want it because they get the game, enjoy it as-is and associate only pain with WIS.
- Perception is that new players expect it because the game feels one-dimensional without a serious human avatar experience.
You are never going to get these two points of view to line up. WIS had it's shot and there's really no point dragging back over the past. EVE is a much better game now than it ever was.
Personally I would have really liked to so WIS become what the prototypes suggested. It would have added depth to the game. But we don't have it so... yeah.
Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
34555
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Posted - 2015.07.23 11:28:43 -
[866] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:The dichotomy of WIS:
- Vets don't want it because they get the game, enjoy it as-is and associate only pain with WIS. Not really. Plenty of vets around that are into that kind of thing.
It's more to do with people being taken out of their comfort zone. Vets will whine about anything, just look at the Aegis threads, particularly in wormholes section. All that crying and discomfort for the loss of few nullsec wormholes.
So now imagine how much whining and discomfort the thought of an entire new platform within the game for social and meta-interaction would bring? Like any part of EVE where players interact, be it local chat, forums, fleets, whatever, an avatar based interaction platform would spew forth a ton of space content. But many Vets are not familiar with that format, they will no longer be the "vets" in that arena, and will have to learn a whole new style of interacting with other players if they want a piece of the content that comes from that platform.
That's all it is. But nobody will admit that, they just throw a ton of other ::reasons:: in why avatar interaction would be the end of the world. It's 100% cultural.
In Anoikis .. Bob Is Always Watching ...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
GÖ¬ -¦een -++¦-é w+¦-é a -ôew -ò-+ell-ò, -¦-à-é +¦ don'-é wal-+ w+¦-é a l+¦-+p
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2052
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Posted - 2015.07.23 11:34:49 -
[867] - Quote
Speaking of which, if they ever do sort the stations out, there needs to be some sort of way to leave notes to people who are not online.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11433
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 11:54:21 -
[868] - Quote
Candi LeMew wrote:
That's all it is. But nobody will admit that, they just throw a ton of other ::reasons:: in why avatar interaction would be the end of the world. It's 100% cultural.
It's just coding. CCP bit off more than they could chew, admitting to that. They disbanded the team. Ships + Avatars is just not something rational, not unless some multi-billion dollar company is going to tackle it, like M$ which for all that would be worth. If it were not so, it would have been done.
Whenever it's done, if it makes it in, one or the other suffers. EnB, SWG (historically speaking), both had ships+avatars, but one or the other sucked. In fact SWG had to do a whole source code rewrite, didn't even make ships at launch it was so hard, came in first expansion and was never really great. EVE is just another on that list, where it really didn't work out, and they were sane enough to realize it at some point rather than sacrificing the entire game. Even if the technology were there, it's a shitstorm of investment to ever do it right, if that is even possible.
I voter for saving jobs at CCP, because this game is about the best of pew pew in space rather than splitting the difference and winding up with something mediocre, for both ships+avatars. And for a game that is well into it's run, it's more than just doubly dangerous. But in the end, my vote doesn't matter, CCP left that intention long-long ago. These topics are just for giggles. About as straight as you'll get from me. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2052
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 12:01:14 -
[869] - Quote
Clear Skies is the inspiration to thinking that combining two games might be the way forward.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11885
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 12:42:31 -
[870] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:The dichotomy of WIS:
- Vets don't want it because they get the game, enjoy it as-is and associate only pain with WIS.
- Perception is that new players expect it because the game feels one-dimensional without a serious human avatar experience.
You are never going to get these two points of view to line up. WIS had it's shot and there's really no point dragging back over the past. EVE is a much better game now than it ever was.
Personally I would have really liked to so WIS become what the prototypes suggested. It would have added depth to the game. But we don't have it so... yeah.
IMO it's not vets vs new players (I'm sure some new players would want avatar play, but also notice it's a lot of veteran players keeping the WiS discussion alive). It's more complicated than that.
One one side you have people who (as you say) "get it" and enjoy what the game already offers and don't see how CCP spending time adding something to the game that almost all of us can already do in real life (walking around, most of us can do that unless you're wheelchair bound lol) would add a single thing of value. Personally, I was born with legs, I wasn't born with Warp Engines lol. 99% of available games offer some kind of walking avatar, walking avatars would add nothing to the game for people like me, and there are quite a few of us. Walkign on legs isn't going to make me able to kill NPCs faster or scan down sigs better.
On the other hand you have the "immersion" crowd. The people who would literally log into a video game with space ships and a player run market and instead of flying a spaceship or playing "spaceship market tycoon", they would activate their fake person, walk on fake legs to a fake bar on a fake space station, order a fake drink they can't even taste and sit at a fake window watching a fake planet slowly rotate around it's fake ass axis (lol). The desire for all that fake stuff demonstrates a need for some not so fake medicine (lol, just kidding).
More seriously, the immersion crowd sees the game as shallow without WiS, while people like me LOVE the rather 'spartan'/no nonsense nature of EVE online. That no-nonsense game has made it this far and it would be foolish for CCP to alter that in hopes of realizing some unrealistic dream of a 'complete sci-fi universe' with avatars and atmospheric flight ect, especially since every single past attempt has failed.
Every.single.one. |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3852
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Posted - 2015.07.23 13:17:45 -
[871] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:The dichotomy of WIS:
- Vets don't want it because they get the game, enjoy it as-is and associate only pain with WIS.
- Perception is that new players expect it because the game feels one-dimensional without a serious human avatar experience.
You are never going to get these two points of view to line up. WIS had it's shot and there's really no point dragging back over the past. EVE is a much better game now than it ever was.
Personally I would have really liked to so WIS become what the prototypes suggested. It would have added depth to the game. But we don't have it so... yeah.
Well, WiS was about the promise that EVE would be something more than what it was -not just a pew pew spaceships game, but a game where people would interact as unique individuals rarther than generic spaceships.
It would also open venues for new gameplay so people who started anew would be on equal footing to years old veterans. Even would have a chance to carve a niche and become King of Stations.
EVE Online needed the future promised by Ambulation and didn't got it. Now it is just repeating its past: Incursions Again come as a prelude to Apochrypha Again and right after Soverignty Again...
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
210
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Posted - 2015.07.23 17:24:03 -
[872] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Max Deveron wrote:
Nobody said anything about changing anything, but adding to it. -blah blah snip snip- Been playing this game about as long as you have, but by your attitude it sounds like your more comfortable playing an FPS or combat flight sim.
Hey cool, so you first logged into EVE around the time castor or exodus. OK then you should totally understand, no need to lecture you. You should already know how important it is to just fix stuff, not leave stuff broken for great periods of time to go create something else that'll be broken for great periods of time. And since you were here while they worked on incarna, you know how even doing anything at all with the flight simula... er flight spaceship simulator (or submarine wars?) in regards to just fixing this game was more or less abandoned. But your theory that if they had kept working on the sims onlin... WiS, EVE would still be in it's better shape today compared to before they got called out on it all? This logic eludes me, to have experienced what you did and how you could suggest EVE would be just the same in the spaceship game if CCP had just gone on tooling with WiS to just add to this game. I'd give you a game suggestion to go off and play as well, but sorry, The SIMS Online closed long ago. Maybe angry birds? Edit oooh as for your insult, what was that, some sort of British thing? Haha miners...
Nope nothing so much as specifically bettering the game....im only talking about the RL money aspects of CCP, i for one woldnt mind some graphics and things to do in station once in awhile. spend most of my time in space myself. but as to maybe a way of acquiring more accounts based on those people that would spend a lot of time in that enviorment.....well if they sub for a year...even 100 of those type of players would be like at least 13k into CCP's pocket....meaning more revenue for us to have a better space game. That is what I am talking about, adding the fluff to get those players to spend their cash here....and if they are still wow-ish like if they ever undock....well we get to awox, kill, pod, scam them which is what we would do anyway.
Edit: oh in retrospect of the way im thinking, i do not expect to EVER see it happen, but fantasy sake, lets say we somehow get 1 million such targets/players.....thats at least 130 million $ revenue for CCP to better our space gaming experience. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11886
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 17:41:25 -
[873] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:.well if they sub for a year...even 100 of those type of players would be like at least 13k into CCP's pocket....meaning more revenue for us to have a better space game.
There it is, the underlying (false) belief that drives not only a lot of "WiShful thinking" (I should copyright the phrase lol), but also a lot of the "EVE would be so much better if only it attracted lots of people who wouldn't like EVE without the useless fluff" thinking as well.
The problem is reality. The idea that a company making more money somehow translates to that company spending that money to make better products for you to enjoy is ridiculous. It's exactly like saying "If I buy 2 Big macs from McDonalds instead of one, tomorrow they will make better Big Macs". Show me one company, ANY COMPANY in any industry where more people giving them money resulted in a better product..
No they won't give you a better product, they (stakeholders/investors whatever) will pocket that money, OR the company will try use those extra funds to develop some other product that they can sell to people who aren't you (because they already have YOU) such as "McRockyMountain Oysters" or some such. This is what CCP was trying to do with WoD by the way, sure some EVe players would have played, but we weren't the target audience.
WHY would McDonalds (or any company) make you a Better Big Mac (or any product) after you just proved that you will buy the Product as it is already?
The above points to the irony of the fact that legions of people play EVE online, don't like it or at least like it some but think "it could be sooo much more" while continuing to pay for EVE as it is, signalling to CCP that they don't HAVE to make the game 'better' because "these smucks will already pay for a game they dislike/feel is incomplete anyways". |
Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1714
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 17:44:48 -
[874] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Again, tidi and all actual improvements to the game came after WiS, as I said after they quit playing with dolls.
So you're just getting into semantics. Because guess what? If they started working on that stuff after "playing with dolls," TiDi would be brand new.
Get it into your head that they were actively working on improving the engine of the game during Incarna. It's what the dev blogs show. It's true. TiDi would not have happened when it did otherwise.
And, speaking of mythologizing:
Webvan wrote:At this point I doubt you were, probably just saw the controversy on some gamers blog and got fascinated with it all. Maybe not so much the game but just a platform to shitpost and do make believe tears all over etc. Well you always have those other EVE-killerGäó games you like so much, maybe in time they will be worthy of your trollings there.
So making up a bunch of convenient fictions to support your argument is not shitposting or trolling? That's new.
For the record, I've been interested in this for years. I got interested with the first CCP Veritas dev blog I saw, and read everything from CCP that I could find. And "EVE killers" are a joke. There is no game like EVE, and there are no games in the pipeline like EVE. I have contributed $0 to Star Citizen, $0 to Elite:Dangerous, and so on, because they're not EVE. So please, try to stick to what you know. I know it's hard when you're used to comforting myths, but it's worth trying.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
34577
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 17:58:14 -
[875] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Candi LeMew wrote:
That's all it is. But nobody will admit that, they just throw a ton of other ::reasons:: in why avatar interaction would be the end of the world. It's 100% cultural.
It's just coding. CCP bit off more than they could chew, admitting to that. They disbanded the team. Ships + Avatars is just not something rational, not unless some multi-billion dollar company is going to tackle it, like M$ which for all that would be worth. If it were not so, it would have been done. I meant moreso the resistance to it is cultural.
CCP tried jumping in the deep end, made a ton of promises and then did a terrible job at implementing it all. Not a good way to attempt it, especially when (at the time) only a percentage of the playerbase were behind it. To see it dropped after that series of comedic errors doesn't surprise me at all. Now days those bad memories still linger, but I don't believe it's technically out of reach at all. The biggest hurdles are probably CCP themselves having now dumped the team for it, it's not something that can be implemented by a small or "part-time" crew. Supply and demand, and I don't think there's quite the "demand" from the community to lash out and put another whole team on the topic ... at this time.
But I still believe we'll see 'something' in the arena of avatar interaction here eventually. The community is slowly warming to the concept of avatar fun over the past few years. Just look at things in 2011/12 compared to now - you even mentioned avatars and you'd be trolled off the forums within the first couple posts. But now days it's a serious topic to all but a few.
That in itself is a victory and sign of significant cultural change in EVE.
In Anoikis .. Bob Is Always Watching ...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
GÖ¬ -¦een -++¦-é w+¦-é a -ôew -ò-+ell-ò, -¦-à-é +¦ don'-é wal-+ w+¦-é a l+¦-+p
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
210
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 19:24:09 -
[876] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Max Deveron wrote:.well if they sub for a year...even 100 of those type of players would be like at least 13k into CCP's pocket....meaning more revenue for us to have a better space game. There it is, the underlying (false) belief that drives not only a lot of "WiShful thinking" (I should copyright the phrase lol), but also a lot of the "EVE would be so much better if only it attracted lots of people who wouldn't like EVE without the useless fluff" thinking as well. The problem is reality. The idea that a company making more money somehow translates to that company spending that money to make better products for you to enjoy is ridiculous. It's exactly like saying "If I buy 2 Big macs from McDonalds instead of one, tomorrow they will make better Big Macs". Show me one company, ANY COMPANY in any industry where more people giving them money resulted in a better product.. No they won't give you a better product, they (stakeholders/investors whatever) will pocket that money, OR the company will try use those extra funds to develop some other product that they can sell to people who aren't you (because they already have YOU) such as "McRockyMountain Oysters" or some such. This is what CCP was trying to do with WoD by the way, sure some EVe players would have played, but we weren't the target audience. WHY would McDonalds (or any company) make you a Better Big Mac (or any product) after you just proved that you will buy the Product as it is already? The above points to the irony of the fact that legions of people play EVE online, don't like it or at least like it some but think "it could be sooo much more" while continuing to pay for EVE as it is, signalling to CCP that they don't HAVE to make the game 'better' because "these smucks will already pay for a game they dislike/feel is incomplete anyways".
and here I have to disagree with you on the sentiments your writing........ hmmm, why would a Mcdonalds try to make a better bigmac or increase its sales like 2 for 5......because the sales are dropping or nobody is buying it.
Now as to CCP....the already announced at fanfest last year basically to the world.....that CCP is only going to work on the EVE UNIVERSE from here on out. That entails that they are going to work on products only pertaining to the EvE Universe, whether thats hardware, integrating current gamelines together, creating new things for those games....ie WiS.
Now its true some of the money will be pocketed, CCP is not a public shares investors company so that means shareholders are basically internal or have been with the company as a owner or some high managment position. Of course they will pocket some of the money, the game belongs to them. Paychecks, overhead, better hardware....leaving a slim margine for eventually enlarging their ability to create more, even better, and maybe even faster things for the playerbase to utilize.
I am sure they are people that stay, but in my experience the ones that dont sub up, and the ones that sub up for a month and leave permenantly far out number the the ones that stay. Add my experience to the things i observe from listening to others 1 in 10 or 12 people actually stay in EvE for various reasons.....and thats on top of the growing number of veterans(2 or more yrs playing) leaving the game. Its not an epidemic....yet.
But it would behoove CCP and also us the players to support them in this to start doing something now, rather than wait till EvE is on the brink of shutdown because of fianicial concerns. And i beg to ask you the question....Why would you personally care if such fluff exsisted as long as it brought in paying customers? Personally i think it would be great to do that, if they dont undock who cares CCP has their money, if they do undock....Who Cares....we the player base already know how to deal with and train them to actually play. Im simply a proponent that watches the stalemate of null, and the listness of high....and both could be fixed....if we had more players for whatever reason.....there is not enough carrots, and im simply proposing that CCP make a garden full of them and watch the rabbits come to try and gorge themselves. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
403
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 22:38:20 -
[877] - Quote
About the argument of WIShfull thinking: every MMO game I played there were a lot of players that wished for more, if bigger the hype, than the things wished for were even more and bigger. Just after the game failed to deliver and their bubbles were popped, game quickly lost an appeal for them, subs dropped. EVE started as an underdog, then hype started on wormholes, then they had to implement planetary interaction and ambulation. Only worholes sticked as a fairly complete feature, maybe because it was the easiest one to implement. The planetary interaction was dissapointing, and WIS was a flop. Players were enraged, but as an underdog still, there was not big drop when I take into account other games I played.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
50777
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 03:22:07 -
[878] - Quote
WIS : Started out as a very nice daydream which eventually turned into a very bad nightmare.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Desslok VonReich
Acadia Investment Group
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 05:30:12 -
[879] - Quote
My issue with WiS is that I've yet to see any compelling gameplay for it.
What will WiS offer that just cant be added as a button to the Neocom?
WiS has to be something more than a terrible UI barrier. Poker? Gambling? There already exists far better and efficient interfaces for that via 3rd party sites. You don't want to spend 5 minutes navigating an avatar in order to do something you could do by just adding a button.
WiS has to add some "game" to the game that cannot be better served by adding an efficient interface. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2329
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 05:44:39 -
[880] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Candi LeMew wrote:
That's all it is. But nobody will admit that, they just throw a ton of other ::reasons:: in why avatar interaction would be the end of the world. It's 100% cultural.
It's just coding. CCP bit off more than they could chew, admitting to that. They disbanded the team. Ships + Avatars is just not something rational, not unless some multi-billion dollar company is going to tackle it, like M$ which for all that would be worth. If it were not so, it would have been done. Whenever it's done, if it makes it in, one or the other suffers. EnB, SWG (historically speaking), both had ships+avatars, but one or the other sucked. In fact SWG had to do a whole source code rewrite, didn't even make ships at launch it was so hard, came in first expansion and was never really great. EVE is just another on that list, where it really didn't work out, and they were sane enough to realize it at some point rather than sacrificing the entire game. Even if the technology were there, it's a shitstorm of investment to ever do it right, if that is even possible. I voter for saving jobs at CCP, because this game is about the best of pew pew in space rather than splitting the difference and winding up with something mediocre, for both ships+avatars. And for a game that is well into it's run, it's more than just doubly dangerous. But in the end, my vote doesn't matter, CCP left that intention long-long ago. These topics are just for giggles. About as straight as you'll get from me. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Coding is not really a problem. The WIS component would not even have to be a part of the EvE client. It could be written standalone and only need to pull and push data to and from market, wallets and chat channels. It could easily be based on an already established and tested game engine. Decent crowd sourcing and it could probably be done free with help from players contributing coding design and artwork.
Edit: one of the really beneficial things about such a change would be the ability to offload players onto the WIS system when docked up. Instead of jumping into Jita with 2k in local you could jump in with only those in system in local.
The docked, docked AFK and docked spammers would be in WIS. Could still camp stations, could still spam but you'd just have to be in space meaning killable which would be great.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
416
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 08:00:53 -
[881] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding is not really a problem. The WIS component would not even have to be a part of the EvE client. It could be written standalone and only need to pull and push data to and from market, wallets and chat channels. It could easily be based on an already established and tested game engine. Decent crowd sourcing and it could probably be done free with help from players contributing coding design and artwork.
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AvHBxUDEyY [Rockit Real Laugh]
The only people that would say such a thing is someone who has never done it. Never will do and has ZERO idea of what is needed for such a project.
You sound like a manager that wonders why your dev team hasn't written a better google in a week. In otherwords a PHB.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2332
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 10:15:02 -
[882] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding is not really a problem. The WIS component would not even have to be a part of the EvE client. It could be written standalone and only need to pull and push data to and from market, wallets and chat channels. It could easily be based on an already established and tested game engine. Decent crowd sourcing and it could probably be done free with help from players contributing coding design and artwork.
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AvHBxUDEyY [Rockit Real Laugh] The only people that would say such a thing is someone who has never done it. Never will do and has ZERO idea of what is needed for such a project. You sound like a manager that wonders why your dev team hasn't written a better google in a week. In otherwords a PHB. Except. You're wrong.
There's already a very good example of a standalone game that plugs into EvE Online market and chat channels. There are also many examples of independently produced software program's that pull data from EvE Online. It would be rather trivial to pass a pilot from EvE client to another application and vice versa.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
211
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 10:30:07 -
[883] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Edit: one of the really beneficial things about such a change would be the ability to offload players onto the WIS system when docked up. Instead of jumping into Jita with 2k in local you could jump in with only those in system in local.
The docked, docked AFK and docked spammers would be in WIS. Could still camp stations, could still spam but you'd just have to be in space meaning killable which would be great.
an these two points would or should be part of the basis of an argument for having WiS, vets should love the facts of having less lag or whatever from peeps being local etc....an if spammers want to be in space local, they would have to be undocked and therefore able to be killed if not cloaked up.
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
211
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 10:33:21 -
[884] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:My issue with WiS is that I've yet to see any compelling gameplay for it.
What will WiS offer that just cant be added as a button to the Neocom?
WiS has to be something more than a terrible UI barrier. Poker? Gambling? There already exists far better and efficient interfaces for that via 3rd party sites. You don't want to spend 5 minutes navigating an avatar in order to do something you could do by just adding a button.
WiS has to add some "game" to the game that cannot be better served by adding an efficient interface.
Actually I am opposed to 3rd party gambling sites, first of all is there a way to force an Audit of their activities. A Station side casino at least would be operated by CCP, wihtout need for 3r party to have access to my API in whatever form.
And there is plenty of "activity" that would be compelling for WiS to be avaible....even if you would prefer to never dock up and just do things remotely with your NeoCom buttons.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1176
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 10:36:23 -
[885] - Quote
-1 for ccp run gambling because it will just cause trouble when people lose, how exactly would adding wis help with server performance?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
212
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 10:40:22 -
[886] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:-1 for ccp run gambling because it will just cause trouble when people lose
Then maybe they shouldnt gamble. Or read the contracts better when scammed. Or not use autopilot Or not AFK mine. Or not AFK rat/mission Or not spend hundreds of cash on plex for purple ships on day 1 Or not use stabs in FW plexes or be the one crying about those that do Or not this or that or even this........list is infinite.....
Maybe they shouldnt log in play? Hmmm....is that what your suggesting?
Take your trolling and go home.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2068
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 11:47:21 -
[887] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:... What will WiS offer that just cant be added as a button to the Neocom? ... I quite liked the idea that people would start in a station, do missions and earn their rookie ship / first frigate then progress from there. I had hopes that WiS would expand to a Descent like game flying from the station to the planet surface, flying through the atmosphere and then playing a PC type version of Dust + PVE / habitation game. Players being moved in ships as passengers to other stations and launching in their shuttle craft from our ships to go down to planets that have no station. Players fighting over PI buildings, under mining operations, trying to intercept ships carrying troops to attack planet, moon facilities and stations.
I have always been sad that CCP fell on their face with WiS but worst of all, they never got up and tried again, even with help. From the way those WoD devs made the other CQs CCP maybe just needs people with a different skill set.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
25646
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 15:12:56 -
[888] - Quote
Hi everyone!
Do you guys remember when CSM corbexx helped a bunch of players talk to CCP about apparel?
One of the suggestions was to have "working overalls" or industrial type clothes for the industry PVE players. Well it's possible CCP was listening. I saw some 'Hephaestus' apparel on Sisi this morning. Look here: https://imgur.com/a/7aKAD
GÖÑ
Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
915
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 15:20:52 -
[889] - Quote
Beer can holster.....finaly! |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2080
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 15:22:34 -
[890] - Quote
The male and female manniquin seem to have the same bulge in the front of their pants.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
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Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
50
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 16:32:34 -
[891] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The male and female manniquin seem to have the same bulge in the front of their pants.
CCP scientifically calls this the "Caitlyn Effect"
To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.
...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
526
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 17:12:48 -
[892] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The male and female manniquin seem to have the same bulge in the front of their pants.
Well, to be fair, I've never seen a real mannequin with nipples. Then again, they are meant to be anatomically correct enough to see how clothing looks on a male/female figure, not whether your junk will be more...uh, noticeable.
Touche for catching that, though.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2082
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 17:15:25 -
[893] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:... not whether your junk will be more...uh, noticeable. ... Maybe it is a CCP joke about G.I.R.L.s?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
417
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 07:37:24 -
[894] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding is not really a problem. The WIS component would not even have to be a part of the EvE client. It could be written standalone and only need to pull and push data to and from market, wallets and chat channels. It could easily be based on an already established and tested game engine. Decent crowd sourcing and it could probably be done free with help from players contributing coding design and artwork.
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AvHBxUDEyY [Rockit Real Laugh] The only people that would say such a thing is someone who has never done it. Never will do and has ZERO idea of what is needed for such a project. You sound like a manager that wonders why your dev team hasn't written a better google in a week. In otherwords a PHB. Except. You're wrong. There's already a very good example of a standalone game that plugs into EvE Online market and chat channels. There are also many examples of independently produced software program's that pull data from EvE Online. It would be rather trivial to pass a pilot from EvE client to another application and vice versa. Then lets see your prototype already then.
Talk is cheap. And this IS my day job.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3862
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 08:54:42 -
[895] - Quote
Oh my, new clothes? Of a never seen before design? Cool!
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2335
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 09:52:28 -
[896] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding is not really a problem. The WIS component would not even have to be a part of the EvE client. It could be written standalone and only need to pull and push data to and from market, wallets and chat channels. It could easily be based on an already established and tested game engine. Decent crowd sourcing and it could probably be done free with help from players contributing coding design and artwork.
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AvHBxUDEyY [Rockit Real Laugh] The only people that would say such a thing is someone who has never done it. Never will do and has ZERO idea of what is needed for such a project. You sound like a manager that wonders why your dev team hasn't written a better google in a week. In otherwords a PHB. Except. You're wrong. There's already a very good example of a standalone game that plugs into EvE Online market and chat channels. There are also many examples of independently produced software program's that pull data from EvE Online. It would be rather trivial to pass a pilot from EvE client to another application and vice versa. Then lets see your prototype already then. Talk is cheap. And this IS my day job. Any prototype would require CCP to make the initial steps. Obviously.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13799
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 09:57:25 -
[897] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Any prototype would require CCP to make the initial steps. Obviously.
Translation: "I was making it up entirely".
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2337
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 10:08:02 -
[898] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Any prototype would require CCP to make the initial steps. Obviously.
Translation: "I was making it up entirely". Incorrect: it is entirely up to CCP as the owner of EvE as to whether such a project could go ahead or not.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2106
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 10:30:17 -
[899] - Quote
To put this to rest.
It is common practise to have different programs accessing the same database. Such as a data capture program and then a management program. They can be quite different. In some cases even written in different languages.
So, yes, it is entirely possible that two different games can access the same server and database so long as the database's integrity is maintainted is should not cause a problem.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3862
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 10:44:59 -
[900] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:To put this to rest.
It is common practise to have different programs accessing the same database. Such as a data capture program and then a management program. They can be quite different. In some cases even written in different languages.
So, yes, it is entirely possible that two different games can access the same server and database so long as the database's integrity is maintainted is should not cause a problem.
Also should bear in mind that CCP is already working in puting all player data in a single dedicated server from which the game servers (Tranqulity, DUST 514 and Valkyrie) will pull player data. Their aim is that a player can exist as three characters in all three games with a unique login.
Sharing data from player servers to the users server and back is one of the key functions of the system.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
|
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terzslave
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
190
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 12:40:04 -
[901] - Quote
As long as we're talking about dead features which were promised to be amazing but have been forgotten, I'd rather CCP work on making PI the way it was initially promised in Tyrannis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-kVv1q6uHM
Seems like sim city in space would have more content then WiS.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2109
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 12:42:06 -
[902] - Quote
terzslave wrote:... Seems like sim city in space would have more content then WiS. I think The Sims was more successful than Sim City.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
terzslave
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
190
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 13:15:05 -
[903] - Quote
Yeah but watch that video and tell me that doesn't sound better. |
Borascus
638
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 15:08:46 -
[904] - Quote
I like how the scope videos have several eve players in war rooms, even down to the clonejack points in the back.
This tells me that WiS is already a go, it's seems like a matter of movement freedoms and custom maps being the hurdle. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3862
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 17:35:41 -
[905] - Quote
Borascus wrote:I like how the scope videos have several eve players in war rooms, even down to the clonejack points in the back.
This tells me that WiS is already a go, it's seems like a matter of movement freedoms and custom maps being the hurdle.
You may have noticed too that all characters in the videos are generic Gallente...
The Scope videos are made out of game with specific CGI assets (not a lot o them since they're used only for CGI videos). There are no WiS assets in the Scope videos.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6282
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 18:15:17 -
[906] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding is not really a problem. The WIS component would not even have to be a part of the EvE client. It could be written standalone and only need to pull and push data to and from market, wallets and chat channels. It could easily be based on an already established and tested game engine. Decent crowd sourcing and it could probably be done free with help from players contributing coding design and artwork.
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AvHBxUDEyY [Rockit Real Laugh] The only people that would say such a thing is someone who has never done it. Never will do and has ZERO idea of what is needed for such a project. You sound like a manager that wonders why your dev team hasn't written a better google in a week. In otherwords a PHB. Except. You're wrong. There's already a very good example of a standalone game that plugs into EvE Online market and chat channels. There are also many examples of independently produced software program's that pull data from EvE Online. It would be rather trivial to pass a pilot from EvE client to another application and vice versa. Then lets see your prototype already then. Talk is cheap. And this IS my day job. For gods sake, don't make us go dig up the dev posts where they talk about plans to make the various EVE games share info so that your character exists inherently in each game. The search engine sucks.
DUST already shares info with EVE (and runs on the same servers), Legion apparently will follow suit, and interactions and information sharing being possible between the various games (and even gaming platforms) is already a fact (orbital bombardment). If they can do it between console and PC players both playing completely different games, they can certainly do it between PC players in different (yet related) games.
They've already proven it can be successfully done, now it's just a question of "do they still want to", and "do they consider it worth the effort".
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Gunn Yage
HC - Sec Offices
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 18:21:06 -
[907] - Quote
Just posted a threat named what edge does this game have over others...Im one of the old vets that actually wanted that feature in the game even if it sucked.. The player base would of exploded but sadly..Ppl didnt what that..now years later with other space games which imo are big threats to this one..This game has no edge whats so ever over them anymore.. Bob Scandale was CCP's First mistake. Abandoning that update was CCp's 2nd mistake..Taking away its last edge it had earlier this year was its 3nd, and sadly game companys only get to make so many big mistakes before they collapse. |
Morgan A'doulende
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 19:40:22 -
[908] - Quote
I always figured WiS would be akin to how Mass Effect or some MMOs are done with small hub sections of stations designed to reflect the station type itself. With NPC and PC owned shops and something like mini games or gambling parlors. Who knows... I'm just imagining. |
Herzyr
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 19:52:29 -
[909] - Quote
Wow this horse sure can stand a beating.
The way I look at it, we are in space, all you will see is the interior of a space station and even more space, it gets visually tiring fast.
Besides, what fun is sitting in a station? Everyone knows the fun is outside, unless you want minigames of minigames inside a station like other MMOs have done. A neat-o feature but definitely not on the to-do list of the devs. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3862
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 19:55:49 -
[910] - Quote
Morgan A'doulende wrote:I always figured WiS would be akin to how Mass Effect or some MMOs are done with small hub sections of stations designed to reflect the station type itself. With NPC and PC owned shops and something like mini games or gambling parlors. Who knows... I'm just imagining.
Those where the original Ambulation plans from 2007. Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
You can read it here: http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/previews/2611-EVE-Online-War-on-the-Impossible-Part-3-Ambulation
Be warned, that article from 2007 is a serious heartbreaker.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
|
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
417
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 20:01:25 -
[911] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding is not really a problem. The WIS component would not even have to be a part of the EvE client. It could be written standalone and only need to pull and push data to and from market, wallets and chat channels. It could easily be based on an already established and tested game engine. Decent crowd sourcing and it could probably be done free with help from players contributing coding design and artwork.
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AvHBxUDEyY [Rockit Real Laugh] The only people that would say such a thing is someone who has never done it. Never will do and has ZERO idea of what is needed for such a project. You sound like a manager that wonders why your dev team hasn't written a better google in a week. In otherwords a PHB. Except. You're wrong. There's already a very good example of a standalone game that plugs into EvE Online market and chat channels. There are also many examples of independently produced software program's that pull data from EvE Online. It would be rather trivial to pass a pilot from EvE client to another application and vice versa. Then lets see your prototype already then. Talk is cheap. And this IS my day job. For gods sake, don't make us go dig up the dev posts where they talk about plans to make the various EVE games share info so that your character exists inherently in each game. The search engine sucks. DUST already shares info with EVE (and runs on the same servers), Legion apparently will follow suit, and interactions and information sharing being possible between the various games (and even gaming platforms) is already a fact (orbital bombardment). If they can do it between console and PC players both playing completely different games, they can certainly do it between PC players in different (yet related) games. They've already proven it can be successfully done, now it's just a question of "do they still want to", and "do they consider it worth the effort".
It was stated that the whole thing would be *trivial* or easy.. and coding no problem at all. I assure you the only people that think such things are trivial are people who have never had the pleasure (displeasure) on working on such a project.
This is not trivial, easy or any of the above. Even with a toy database its far from trivial.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
405
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 20:21:23 -
[912] - Quote
Herzyr wrote:Wow this horse sure can stand a beating. Its EVE horse, when people beat it, it just gets tougher and tougher, HTFU he says.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11932
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 20:47:23 -
[913] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft?
|
Morgan A'doulende
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 20:57:19 -
[914] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft?
How does interstellar trade happen?
I understand EVE is a spaceship game, but is there really any harm is side stuff? With as much background there is to everything in this game, is there truly harm in allowing capsuleers to have something to do outside the ship during their downtime? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8847
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 21:08:05 -
[915] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft?
Nothing. But it has a whole lot to do with making EVE the complete science fiction simulator that is one of the reasons the game was created in the first place.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
527
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 21:24:29 -
[916] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft?
If you eat too much your warp speed is penalised. If you continue to eat too much you are unable to board frigates. If you don't eat enough your ships agility suffers and there is a ramdomized delay to module activations which increases until you black out. |
SheepChaser Woolhands
JoveNation Band of Boogers
9
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 00:00:23 -
[917] - Quote
Is it me, or has the forum trolls here got to much Liberty from the ISD and dragged this post so far away from the OP's "question" that we couldnt get back to the real question even tho a dwarf crawl out of a donkey's behind and gave it to ya....
I belive the question was, WHAT HAPPEND??
That question has been answerd so many times during the 44ish pages that it really really straight ******** that People twist and turn this just for fun... since the post has become a freezone for trolls.
On the otherhand, the ones that actually comes With pro and cons to WiS, should in reality be given a New post about deciding to ask or not ask CCP to get their fingers out and leave skins for awhile and make WiS reality... or keep making skins and other crap that have no game value at all.
So im gonna put my finger back in where it should be, in my nose, i firmly belive ill find some Gneiss up there..... and still be Reading the neverending moronity that keeps on going on this topic without no interferring from the ISD's
So kudos to the troll.... and the ISD for closing their eye while singing "im sitting in a tinpot" |
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13049
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 00:29:04 -
[918] - Quote
Necrotizing threadyitus!
If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg
But in purple, I'm stunning!
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3865
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 06:46:17 -
[919] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft? Nothing. But it has a whole lot to do with making EVE the complete science fiction simulator that is one of the reasons the game was created in the first place. Mr Epeen
It was just 4 years after launch. It was a part of a multithreaded effort called "War on the impossible".
Thread 1: the CSM Thread 2: new graphics engine (Trinity) Thread 3: Ambulation (avatar gameplay)
Obviously CCP had to dud the most important part of the plan and the only one from which depended the future of the game.
Since Ambulation became Incarna and Incarna crashed and burned, CCP has been pretending that they didn't really wanted that second leg and they're doing fine with a crutch in their one-leg-only videogame, thank you.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1212
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 08:12:23 -
[920] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft?
yeah this sounds sh!t, go play the sims
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1212
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 08:15:14 -
[921] - Quote
Gunn Yage wrote:Just posted a threat named what edge does this game have over others...Im one of the old vets that actually wanted that feature in the game even if it sucked.. The player base would of exploded but sadly..Ppl didnt what that..now years later with other space games which imo are big threats to this one..This game has no edge whats so ever over them anymore.. Bob Scandale was CCP's First mistake. Abandoning that update was CCp's 2nd mistake..Taking away its last edge it had earlier this year was its 3nd, and sadly game companys only get to make so many big mistakes before they collapse.
stop trolling it has plenty of edge over the other games you talk of...
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
213
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 10:22:18 -
[922] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft? yeah this sounds sh!t, go play the sims
To answer, sure it has nothing to do with spacecraft directly. As to the sims thing.....yep thats a good one, i would rather the one that might play sims spend their money here instead of on sims, but they need something to do first hmmm. |
Borascus
641
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 11:13:03 -
[923] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You may have noticed too that all characters in the videos are generic Gallente... The Scope videos are made out of game with specific CGI assets (not a lot o them since they're used only for CGI videos). There are no WiS assets in the Scope videos.
oh wait i meant this one at the 56 second mark |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2337
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 13:12:00 -
[924] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
It was stated that the whole thing would be *trivial* or easy.. and coding no problem at all. I assure you the only people that think such things are trivial are people who have never had the pleasure (displeasure) on working on such a project.
This is not trivial, easy or any of the above. Even with a toy database its far from trivial.
It was never stated that the coding would be trivial. I stated that passing the pilot(data) would be trivial since it's already being done (in Dust). The coding would be easy yes. There is already the ability to download engines that provide 3D environments , GUI and avatar functionality with minimal coding.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1219
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 13:14:30 -
[925] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:
It was stated that the whole thing would be *trivial* or easy.. and coding no problem at all. I assure you the only people that think such things are trivial are people who have never had the pleasure (displeasure) on working on such a project.
This is not trivial, easy or any of the above. Even with a toy database its far from trivial.
It was never stated that the coding would be trivial. I stated that passing the pilot(data) would be trivial since it's already being done (in Dust). The coding would be easy yes. There is already the ability to download engines that provide 3D environments , GUI and avatar functionality with minimal coding.
you should build us an example
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
418
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 13:36:17 -
[926] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft? yeah this sounds sh!t, go play the sims To answer, sure it has nothing to do with spacecraft directly. As to the sims thing.....yep thats a good one, i would rather the one that might play sims spend their money here instead of on sims, but they need something to do first hmmm. No we don't want lots of Sims or second life players here. Eve should be eve, not every game to every person.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
418
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 13:39:16 -
[927] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: The coding would be easy yes. There you go again. If its so easy SHOW US. Hack a prototype up in Unity and show us how easy it is. Make sure at least 100 ppl can interact.
As i said before. Talk is cheap. It is easy to say it is easy. But after being a dev for 20 years, i assure you it is not.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1222
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 13:40:53 -
[928] - Quote
next ill have my facebook newsfeed filled with "Ishtanchuk Fazmarai just bought a new cooker in EVE Online and needs help to fill it with magic beans, click here to help Ishtanchuk Fazmarai"
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2112
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 14:24:15 -
[929] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Gunn Yage wrote:Just posted a threat named what edge does this game have over others...Im one of the old vets that actually wanted that feature in the game even if it sucked.. The player base would of exploded but sadly.. Stop trolling baiting! It has plenty of edge over the other games you speak of ... Fixed.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
213
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 14:31:37 -
[930] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote: No we don't want lots of Sims or second life players here. Eve should be eve, not every game to every person.
Uhm all i can say here, is if WiS were to occur then dont DOCK UP, stay in space and you wont have to interact with those other players.
Simple really. |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2112
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 14:33:33 -
[931] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote: No we don't want lots of Sims or second life players here. Eve should be eve, not every game to every person. Uhm all i can say here, is if WiS were to occur then dont DOCK UP, stay in space and you wont have to interact with those other players. Simple really. ... or dock up but don't enable WiS. Keep spinning your ship.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
418
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 19:57:54 -
[932] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote: No we don't want lots of Sims or second life players here. Eve should be eve, not every game to every person.
Uhm all i can say here, is if WiS were to occur then dont DOCK UP, stay in space and you wont have to interact with those other players. Simple really. I don't. I am in WH space :P
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2117
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 20:01:39 -
[933] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:I don't. I am in WH space :P Is okay, in Dominion SOV I wanted WHs to be able to build stations.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
855
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 13:01:39 -
[934] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote: To answer, sure it has nothing to do with spacecraft directly. As to the sims thing.....yep thats a good one, i would rather the one that might play sims spend their money here instead of on sims, but they need something to do first hmmm.
We need a shooter in EVE also so shooter fans will give us their money. And a rockband type thing so people who like to play guitar will give us their money. We also need some medieval fantasy stuff so we can have the money of people who don't like sci fi.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2122
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 13:29:59 -
[935] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:We need a shooter in EVE also so shooter fans will give us their money. ... As ironically as you say it, I would love for them to port Dust to PC and integrate it with WiS and EVE properly.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13845
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 13:36:19 -
[936] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: The coding would be easy yes. There you go again. If its so easy SHOW US. Hack a prototype up in Unity and show us how easy it is. Make sure at least 100 ppl can interact. As i said before. Talk is cheap. It is easy to say it is easy. But after being a dev for 20 years, i assure you it is not.
Don't bother with that fool. He thinks computer code is a magic wand that you can just wave and fulfill all of his absurd ideas.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8879
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 16:22:40 -
[937] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: The coding would be easy yes. There you go again. If its so easy SHOW US. Hack a prototype up in Unity and show us how easy it is. Make sure at least 100 ppl can interact. As i said before. Talk is cheap. It is easy to say it is easy. But after being a dev for 20 years, i assure you it is not. Don't bother with that fool. He thinks computer code is a magic wand that you can just wave and fulfill all of his absurd ideas. Magic is real!
For proof, look at a helicopter. The only way they can stay in the air is by magic.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
213
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 17:21:47 -
[938] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:We need a shooter in EVE also so shooter fans will give us their money. ... As ironically as you say it, I would love for them to port Dust to PC and integrate it with WiS and EVE properly.
This i would love to see also, the proper integration. Now Valkyrie, i think will always be stand alone, no idea how that might be integrated with EvE outside of EvE indy players building stuff for it....its a flight sim, eve depends on 1 second ticks. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2129
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 17:32:49 -
[939] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:We need a shooter in EVE also so shooter fans will give us their money. ... As ironically as you say it, I would love for them to port Dust to PC and integrate it with WiS and EVE properly. This i would love to see also, the proper integration. Now Valkyrie, i think will always be stand alone, no idea how that might be integrated with EvE outside of EvE indy players building stuff for it....its a flight sim, eve depends on 1 second ticks. Relativity. The Valkyrie pilots can fight each other and drones and we basically get status reports. They can deliver Dust troops from ships to structures, planets and moons.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
3145
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 20:44:23 -
[940] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Max Deveron wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Stuff like: player A serves food to player B, which eats too much and grows fat and buys new clothes from player C or gets a clone resculpt from Player D.
WTF does any of that have to do with spacecraft? yeah this sounds sh!t, go play the sims To answer, sure it has nothing to do with spacecraft directly. As to the sims thing.....yep thats a good one, i would rather the one that might play sims spend their money here instead of on sims, but they need something to do first hmmm. No we don't want lots of Sims or second life players here. Eve should be eve, not every game to every person.
/me shivers ...
I played second life for a few days once just to see what all the fuzz was about.People talk about eve sociapaths but if you really want to get frightened by how people behave in a game then i suggest trying second life.The idea of that place still gives me the creeps ...
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2130
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 23:34:06 -
[941] - Quote
flakeys wrote:... I played second life for a few days once just to see what all the fuzz was about.People talk about eve sociapaths but if you really want to get frightened by how people behave in a game then i suggest trying second life.The idea of that place still gives me the creeps ... Did your dark and twisty nature scare you? Second Life is a virtual world, where you find what you search for in there. I play Go in 3D, do some sailing, hot air ballooning, walk around forests, hang around friends playing music from their collections, sit on a beach just chatting to friends and I have friends that even got married after meeting there (they are still together years later).
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Desslok VonReich
Acadia Investment Group
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 05:16:15 -
[942] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:As to gambling, I think it would be interesting if players could host the game. They either deal the cards in Black Jack, being the "house" or in poker games they can bet what ever is in station (this would have to be more intuitive than the contracts interface)
Gambling, etc, are all mini-games. The "game" is the mini-game, not WiS. It would be more efficient to just add a button to the Neocom to bring up the mini-game. Why would I want to walk an avatar 5 minutes just to start a mini-game I can start today with a single button click?
The "game" for WiS has to be intrinsic to WiS itself. WiS cannot be just a method to move between mini-games that are the actual "game".
Can anyone describe a compelling case for a WiS game play that does not involve a mini-game? A case where the game play is intrinsic to WiS itself.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I quite liked the idea that people would start in a station, do missions and earn their rookie ship / first frigate then progress from there. I had hopes that WiS would expand to a Descent like game flying from the station to the planet surface, flying through the atmosphere and then playing a PC type version of Dust + PVE / habitation game. Players being moved in ships as passengers to other stations and launching in their shuttle craft from our ships to go down to planets that have no station. Players fighting over PI buildings, under mining operations, trying to intercept ships carrying troops to attack planet, moon facilities and stations.
What you described is a loading screen.
|
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
368
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 05:17:32 -
[943] - Quote
I support SexInStations.
Everyone loved Wahoooimg on the Sims and banging. People use Second Life to bang. People used AIM and IM and IRQ and AOL all to cyber bang.
Just let us go to other peoples Captian Quarters. Say max 3-5 capsuller capacity at a time. Just let us get a little freaking is each others CQs and that all WiS ever needs to be.
Cant be that much coding seriously |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
368
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 05:19:30 -
[944] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:
The "game" for WiS has to be intrinsic to WiS itself. WiS cannot be just a method to move between mini-games that are the actual "game".
Can anyone describe a compelling case for a WiS game play that does not involve a mini-game? A case where the game play is intrinsic to WiS itself.
BangingInStations |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2343
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 05:27:23 -
[945] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: The coding would be easy yes. There you go again. If its so easy SHOW US. Hack a prototype up in Unity and show us how easy it is. Make sure at least 100 ppl can interact. As i said before. Talk is cheap. It is easy to say it is easy. But after being a dev for 20 years, i assure you it is not. Don't bother with that fool. He thinks computer code is a magic wand that you can just wave and fulfill all of his absurd ideas. The irony is that's exactly what computer code is. It's magic that can create entire worlds, a galaxy like EvE exists in, artificial intelligence or something more mundane like a calculator or a spreadsheet or this forum.
Coding for people like you may be difficult but for me, someone who started out in MS DOS BASiC, then inspired by the Dark Avenger getting into TSR viruses in TASM, then Turbo C, Borland C++ then VB, Java etc etc it became second nature.
You're limited by coding based on imagination and practical considerations of time and work. Take care of those things and you could create anything if you have the required talent and hardware.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Starbuck05
Pretty Hate Machine. Symmetric Symbiosis
271
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 06:58:28 -
[946] - Quote
Personaly i don't care much for WiS ... Cause i play eve for the ..u know..space ships..in space. But hey thats me, also doesnt help cause i live in w-space... Maybe when citadels are released :)
Still i woulndt waste time looking at female avatar asses or what ever...there's porn for that..cheaper, better..... I need to get out more...
-á- I am the commanding officer , u should adress me as sir !
-á- But if i call u sir , what would i call your wife then ??
|
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
419
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 07:54:47 -
[947] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: You're limited by coding based on imagination and practical considerations of time and work. Take care of those things and you could create anything if you have the required talent and hardware.
I hear a lot of talking and no coding. Where is this easy prototype ALREADY.
I started back when 8bits was a thing and 128kbytes (banked switched) was huge.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
3154
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 08:24:25 -
[948] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:flakeys wrote:... I played second life for a few days once just to see what all the fuzz was about.People talk about eve sociapaths but if you really want to get frightened by how people behave in a game then i suggest trying second life.The idea of that place still gives me the creeps ... Did your dark and twisty nature scare you?Second Life is a virtual world, where you find what you search for in there. I play Go in 3D, do some sailing, hot air ballooning, walk around forests, hang around friends playing music from their collections, sit on a beach just chatting to friends and I have friends that even got married after meeting there (they are still together years later).
Besides not having a dark and twisty nature to my knowledge i would not be ''shocked'' if i found out i had one and then expressed it in an online game.Expressing it in reall life , now that probably might be scary for me ...
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Desslok VonReich
Acadia Investment Group
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 08:38:27 -
[949] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Desslok VonReich wrote:
The "game" for WiS has to be intrinsic to WiS itself. WiS cannot be just a method to move between mini-games that are the actual "game".
Can anyone describe a compelling case for a WiS game play that does not involve a mini-game? A case where the game play is intrinsic to WiS itself.
BangingInStations
So the best the community can do is "sexting"?
This is the real reason there is no WiS. There's no game. It brings nothing to the table.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2132
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 08:51:59 -
[950] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:As to gambling, I think it would be interesting if players could host the game. They either deal the cards in Black Jack, being the "house" or in poker games they can bet what ever is in station (this would have to be more intuitive than the contracts interface) Gambling, etc, are all mini-games. The "game" is the mini-game, not WiS. It would be more efficient to just add a button to the Neocom to bring up the mini-game. Why would I want to walk an avatar 5 minutes just to start a mini-game I can start today with a single button click? Immersion. Same with gathering your corp / alliance and Dust troops into a meeting hall and giving them a speech.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1280
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 08:58:24 -
[951] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Desslok VonReich wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:As to gambling, I think it would be interesting if players could host the game. They either deal the cards in Black Jack, being the "house" or in poker games they can bet what ever is in station (this would have to be more intuitive than the contracts interface) Gambling, etc, are all mini-games. The "game" is the mini-game, not WiS. It would be more efficient to just add a button to the Neocom to bring up the mini-game. Why would I want to walk an avatar 5 minutes just to start a mini-game I can start today with a single button click? Immersion. Same with gathering your corp / alliance and Dust troops into a meeting hall and giving them a speech.
unless the whole alliance agree's with and follows rp its just a pointless operation, teamspeak works wonders and it will still be used more than this method
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Desslok VonReich
Acadia Investment Group
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 09:05:33 -
[952] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Desslok VonReich wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:As to gambling, I think it would be interesting if players could host the game. They either deal the cards in Black Jack, being the "house" or in poker games they can bet what ever is in station (this would have to be more intuitive than the contracts interface) Gambling, etc, are all mini-games. The "game" is the mini-game, not WiS. It would be more efficient to just add a button to the Neocom to bring up the mini-game. Why would I want to walk an avatar 5 minutes just to start a mini-game I can start today with a single button click? Immersion. Same with gathering your corp / alliance and Dust troops into a meeting hall and giving them a speech.
Immersion is something to strive for in your gameplay, but it is not gameplay. What you are calling immersion is an avatar chat lobby. Which is fine but would beban optional feature and doesn't justify the resources required well enough on its own.
Im not entirely sure i buy the avatar chat as immersion in EVE. Capsuleers are starship pilots encased in a capsule and a step removed from the rest of humanity. A bunch of dudes in a bar doesn't really feel like it captures that idea well.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2132
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 09:22:32 -
[953] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:unless the whole alliance agree's with and follows rp its just a pointless operation, teamspeak works wonders and it will still be used more than this method Why not both? Desslok VonReich wrote: Immersion is something to strive for in your gameplay, but it is not gameplay.
I can play Go on a 2D flat board, where there is only the board and chat down the side. Alternatively, I enjoy getting on Second Life and playing Go in 3D, it is much more social, I can spin the board around, see faces I recognise, etc. 3D avatar environment is more immersive than your mini-game window from the Neocom.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1220
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 09:54:07 -
[954] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Immersion. Same with gathering your corp / alliance and Dust troops into a meeting hall and giving them a speech.
Screw that, I'm 20 jumps away, and there is a roaming gang in the main pipe.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2132
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 10:19:57 -
[955] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Screw that, I'm 20 jumps away, and there is a roaming gang in the main pipe. Take it up with your CEO.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13852
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 11:34:22 -
[956] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding for people like you may be difficult but for me
You mean for you, who keeps talking about how easy you think something is without having a clue what you're talking about?
Oh, and now in addition to being a bar bouncer who rides a girl's motorcycle, and who is also a paralegal on the side, now you have invented a bunch of coding chops too? This is new. Are you going to be a marine biologist next?
What you are is a liar, and a fool.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2343
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:21:35 -
[957] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding for people like you may be difficult but for me
You mean for you, who keeps talking about how easy you think something is without having a clue what you're talking about? Oh, and now in addition to being a bar bouncer who rides a girl's motorcycle, and who is also a paralegal on the side, now you have invented a bunch of coding chops too? This is new. Are you going to be a marine biologist next? What you are is a liar, and a fool. No what I am is very talented however this thread is not about me so back to the topic.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6857
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:40:19 -
[958] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding for people like you may be difficult but for me
You mean for you, who keeps talking about how easy you think something is without having a clue what you're talking about? Oh, and now in addition to being a bar bouncer who rides a girl's motorcycle, and who is also a paralegal on the side, now you have invented a bunch of coding chops too? This is new. Are you going to be a marine biologist next? What you are is a liar, and a fool.
Hey sarge, what exactly is your skill set?
The root of the issue is not coding anyway, it's mixing these worlds. I have an OOP thread going on the issues that SC is having with their large collection of promises. They are running into considerable daunting challenges such that after reading the article I have less tendency to gripe about the unfinished WiS. It's not the coding, it's the construct of the game that's challenging and even worse, SC is not a legacy system, Eve Online is. So I don't think that we'll ever be looking out a window in the CQ and seeing actual ships piloted by other players anytime soon.
That the tactical ammo and orbital bombardment even works at all is a miracle worthy of entering any future textbooks on "total universe" game constructs. I have been writing code since 1983 and cannot see an easy way to do it. Yes it can be done, but the cost of getting it all to work together goes way beyond the value of the return.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
459
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:40:40 -
[959] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding for people like you may be difficult but for me
You mean for you, who keeps talking about how easy you think something is without having a clue what you're talking about? Oh, and now in addition to being a bar bouncer who rides a girl's motorcycle, and who is also a paralegal on the side, now you have invented a bunch of coding chops too? This is new. Are you going to be a marine biologist next? What you are is a liar, and a fool.
I am more interested in what you consider a girl's motorcycle! |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6446
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:43:05 -
[960] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:Gambling, etc, are all mini-games. The "game" is the mini-game, not WiS. It would be more efficient to just add a button to the Neocom to bring up the mini-game. Why would I want to walk an avatar 5 minutes just to start a mini-game I can start today with a single button click?
The "game" for WiS has to be intrinsic to WiS itself. WiS cannot be just a method to move between mini-games that are the actual "game".
Can anyone describe a compelling case for a WiS game play that does not involve a mini-game? A case where the game play is intrinsic to WiS itself. Why do we need stars, planet, moons, little asteroids in belts, gate effects, explosions, lasers. We could do all the same stuff with just a blank background, square boxes for ships and the overview.
The point is that it's fun to have stuff looking cool, and to walk through the station with capsuleers playing games, visiting markets and having meetings would be far more visually exciting than just clicking a button. We all know it would primarily be a vanity thing, but what's so bad about that?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
|
Marsha Mallow
2405
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:46:57 -
[961] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:No what I am is very talented however this thread is not about me so back to the topic. Going to need to see a picture of your dog again to prove these talents. And your bike.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
Jenn aSide wrote: does anyone have any assless chaps I could borrow?
|
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
462
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 16:51:55 -
[962] - Quote
Low expectations is what I love in a customer! |
ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
38
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 18:17:04 -
[963] - Quote
Removed some Off topic and Rule 4 offenders.
Quote:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 21:33:10 -
[964] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding for people like you may be difficult but for me
You mean for you, who keeps talking about how easy you think something is without having a clue what you're talking about? Oh, and now in addition to being a bar bouncer who rides a girl's motorcycle, and who is also a paralegal on the side, now you have invented a bunch of coding chops too? This is new. Are you going to be a marine biologist next? What you are is a liar, and a fool. I am more interested in what you consider a girl's motorcycle! Apparantly thinks these are girls bikes =ƒÿÅ
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Freya Sertan
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
587
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 21:48:05 -
[965] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding for people like you may be difficult but for me
You mean for you, who keeps talking about how easy you think something is without having a clue what you're talking about? Oh, and now in addition to being a bar bouncer who rides a girl's motorcycle, and who is also a paralegal on the side, now you have invented a bunch of coding chops too? This is new. Are you going to be a marine biologist next? What you are is a liar, and a fool. I am more interested in what you consider a girl's motorcycle! Apparantly thinks these are girls bikes =ƒÿÅ
That's not what you were in that picture with.
If that was even you.
Which it wasn't.
Because liar.
New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.
Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13859
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 22:20:58 -
[966] - Quote
Freya Sertan wrote: That's not what you were in that picture with.
If that was even you.
Which it wasn't.
Because liar.
Yep, his story just keeps on changing.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2138
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 22:25:47 -
[967] - Quote
Care? Stop feeding their need for attention and get back on topic, please.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Marsha Mallow
2411
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 22:35:26 -
[968] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Care? Stop feeding their need for attention and get back on topic, please. With all due respect, NO. To both points.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Apparantly thinks these are girls bikes =ƒÿÅ Are you trying to say something about girls here?
Sorry but I think I'm going to have to demand some credentials at this point. (We can totally do a thread all about you again btw, anytime).
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
Jenn aSide wrote: does anyone have any assless chaps I could borrow?
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 22:46:42 -
[969] - Quote
Freya Sertan wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Coding for people like you may be difficult but for me
You mean for you, who keeps talking about how easy you think something is without having a clue what you're talking about? Oh, and now in addition to being a bar bouncer who rides a girl's motorcycle, and who is also a paralegal on the side, now you have invented a bunch of coding chops too? This is new. Are you going to be a marine biologist next? What you are is a liar, and a fool. I am more interested in what you consider a girl's motorcycle! Apparantly thinks these are girls bikes =ƒÿÅ That's not what you were in that picture with. If that was even you. Which it wasn't. Because liar. It's a Harley Nighrod Special which is exactly what I was on. Lol. But I digress, stop derailing thread.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13860
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 23:05:08 -
[970] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:But I digress
Yes, and frequently at that.
Quote: stop derailing thread.
Okay. Walking in Stations is an inherently bad thing that is 100% not redeemable as a feature for this game. The Captains Quarters should be removed completely to save on the game's download size.
As the insertion of Walking in Stations into EVE Online almost killed the game, I submit that all of it's current proponents hate this game and are trying to engineer the death of EVE Online.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32107
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 23:10:57 -
[971] - Quote
Hahaha barbies of death. yes.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Desslok VonReich
Acadia Investment Group
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 02:46:33 -
[972] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Why do we need stars, planet, moons, little asteroids in belts, gate effects, explosions, lasers. We could do all the same stuff with just a blank background, square boxes for ships and the overview.
The point is that it's fun to have stuff looking cool, and to walk through the station with capsuleers playing games, visiting markets and having meetings would be far more visually exciting than just clicking a button. We all know it would primarily be a vanity thing, but what's so bad about that?
All those items listed add to the immersion of EVE. And fit within the context of a capsuleer experience.
WiS does not. A bunch of dudes in a bar playing poker does not.
The capsuleer experience is likely a very alien, uncomfortable, trans-humanistic one. The current EVE, minus the CQ, actually captures that experience well.
But as a true capuleer's trans-humanistic experience is alien and uncomfortable, people naturally want to move away from it and into the more relate-able and comfortable WiS experience.
As WiS cannot truely provide for an accurate immersive experience, I dont think immersion is a good enough reason. Instead what is needed is for WiS to bring the "game" to the table.
I would love to solved the WiS dilemma, and think of that must-have game play that justifies the development cost. |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
462
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 03:14:19 -
[973] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Why do we need stars, planet, moons, little asteroids in belts, gate effects, explosions, lasers. We could do all the same stuff with just a blank background, square boxes for ships and the overview.
The point is that it's fun to have stuff looking cool, and to walk through the station with capsuleers playing games, visiting markets and having meetings would be far more visually exciting than just clicking a button. We all know it would primarily be a vanity thing, but what's so bad about that? All those items listed add to the immersion of EVE. And fit within the context of a capsuleer experience. WiS does not. A bunch of dudes in a bar playing poker does not. The capsuleer experience is likely a very alien, uncomfortable, trans-humanistic one. The current EVE, minus the CQ, actually captures that experience well. But as a true capuleer's trans-humanistic experience is alien and uncomfortable, people naturally want to move away from it and into the more relate-able and comfortable WiS experience. As WiS cannot truely provide for an accurate immersive experience, I dont think immersion is a good enough reason. Instead what is needed is for WiS to bring the "game" to the table. I would love to solved the WiS dilemma, and think of that must-have game play that justifies the development cost.
TL:SR - super-advanced beings who live in bubble of their own poo and pee and sense the world through electronics make terrible card partners. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 07:26:16 -
[974] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Why do we need stars, planet, moons, little asteroids in belts, gate effects, explosions, lasers. We could do all the same stuff with just a blank background, square boxes for ships and the overview.
The point is that it's fun to have stuff looking cool, and to walk through the station with capsuleers playing games, visiting markets and having meetings would be far more visually exciting than just clicking a button. We all know it would primarily be a vanity thing, but what's so bad about that? All those items listed add to the immersion of EVE. And fit within the context of a capsuleer experience. WiS does not. A bunch of dudes in a bar playing poker does not. The capsuleer experience is likely a very alien, uncomfortable, trans-humanistic one. The current EVE, minus the CQ, actually captures that experience well. But as a true capuleer's trans-humanistic experience is alien and uncomfortable, people naturally want to move away from it and into the more relate-able and comfortable WiS experience. As WiS cannot truely provide for an accurate immersive experience, I dont think immersion is a good enough reason. Instead what is needed is for WiS to bring the "game" to the table. I would love to solved the WiS dilemma, and think of that must-have game play that justifies the development cost. What you and I think means very little. What matters is whether there is an opportunity for CCP to make money off WIS and more importantly whether someone at CCP is in a position to recognise that and make it happen. If no to any of those then you'll get your wish of stagnation.
MMO history says there's tons of money in it. People flock to avatar based play.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6678
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 07:51:04 -
[975] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
MMO history says there's tons of money in it.
EVE history says there isn't. EVE isn't every other MMO on the market, it's something different, so doing stuff for EVE just because it works for every other MMO does not guarantee it will work the same way. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, so I suggest you grasp it.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:00:23 -
[976] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:
MMO history says there's tons of money in it.
EVE history says there isn't. EVE isn't every other MMO on the market, it's something different, so doing stuff for EVE just because it works for every other MMO does not guarantee it will work the same way. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, so I suggest you grasp it. EvE history doesn't indicate yay or nay on WIS. The popular myth is the Summer of Nerd-Rage was about WIS but it was not, it was primarily about Greed is Good.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Borascus
646
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:00:37 -
[977] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:
MMO history says there's tons of money in it.
EVE history says there isn't. EVE isn't every other MMO on the market, it's something different, so doing stuff for EVE just because it works for every other MMO does not guarantee it will work the same way. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, so I suggest you grasp it.
The main selling point is that people who seek avatar based gameplay see there is a window of opportunity within the sandbox to diversify content consumption, it should be up to the vets to prize the new influx of avatar-baesd gameplayers from their stations and give them the content they deserve instead of those that see flying around safely in pod goo doing 'not so much' is all that can be achieved in the 'boss was in a deny phase so that entire month of new recruits got bored and left'
At the Nth term the retention of players in EVE is still coupled to the efforts to co-ordinate strangers effectively, thats a community game, not a sandbox. EVE should be both (there is a scale of acceptance we'll all appear on and most are happy if they post on forums). |
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6678
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:06:58 -
[978] - Quote
Borascus wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:
MMO history says there's tons of money in it.
EVE history says there isn't. EVE isn't every other MMO on the market, it's something different, so doing stuff for EVE just because it works for every other MMO does not guarantee it will work the same way. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, so I suggest you grasp it. The main selling point is that people who seek avatar based gameplay see there is a window of opportunity within the sandbox to diversify content consumption, it should be up to the vets to prize the new influx of avatar-baesd gameplayers from their stations and give them the content they deserve instead of those that see flying around safely in pod goo doing 'not so much' is all that can be achieved in the 'boss was in a deny phase so that entire month of new recruits got bored and left' At the Nth term the retention of players in EVE is still coupled to the efforts to co-ordinate strangers effectively, thats a community game, not a sandbox. EVE should be both (there is a scale of acceptance we'll all appear on and most are happy if they post on forums).
In EVE, your ship is your avatar. Once again, you like many others fail to grasp the nature of EVE - in EVE, avatar gameplay is spaceship gameplay. If people don't get that, then EVE is not for them. If we make EVE something else to accommodate them, instead of the people that want spaceship gameplay, then EVE becomes EVE in name only, and what it was and always has been is gone.
WIS was tried. It failed. That really is the bottom line.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6678
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:10:30 -
[979] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:
MMO history says there's tons of money in it.
EVE history says there isn't. EVE isn't every other MMO on the market, it's something different, so doing stuff for EVE just because it works for every other MMO does not guarantee it will work the same way. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, so I suggest you grasp it. EvE history doesn't indicate yay or nay on WIS. The popular myth is the Summer of Nerd-Rage was about WIS but it was not, it was primarily about Greed is Good.
IZ, you might be able to lie to yourself, but you can't bullshit me. The Jita monument included protest against developing unnecessary features for EVE at the expense of fixing existing problems as much as it included outrage at the ridiculous attempts to gauge money through a ****** MT system.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6678
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:14:05 -
[980] - Quote
I like 'avatar' gameplay as well, that's why I also play SWTOR when that's what I want. If you want to walk around with a character instead of flying a spaceship, there are other games for you already. EVE doesn't have to be like everything else on the market, it can be it's own thing. I wouldn't be playing it if it wasn't it's own thing.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:20:00 -
[981] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:
MMO history says there's tons of money in it.
EVE history says there isn't. EVE isn't every other MMO on the market, it's something different, so doing stuff for EVE just because it works for every other MMO does not guarantee it will work the same way. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, so I suggest you grasp it. EvE history doesn't indicate yay or nay on WIS. The popular myth is the Summer of Nerd-Rage was about WIS but it was not, it was primarily about Greed is Good. IZ, you might be able to lie to yourself, but you can't bullshit me. The Jita monument included protest against developing unnecessary features for EVE at the expense of fixing existing problems as much as it included outrage at the ridiculous attempts to gauge money through a ****** MT system. It was about Greed is Good. WIS had been announced prior to GiG but did not elicit the response that GiG did. Yes there were those who hijacked the GiG anger to scuttle WIS but the Summer of Nerd-Rage was not about WIS.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6682
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:35:35 -
[982] - Quote
It was as much about one as it was the other, and to belittle those that felt **** on by the unnecessary development at the expense of fixing existing problems is to be a **** person. That is all. Say no to drugs.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2347
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:47:38 -
[983] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:It was as much about one as it was the other, and to belittle those that felt **** on by the unnecessary development at the expense of fixing existing problems is to be a **** person. That is all. Say no to drugs. If you want to rewrite history go ahead. Some people like being delusional.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13875
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:53:24 -
[984] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: If you want to rewrite history go ahead. Some people like being delusional.
Don't talk to yourself.
The summer of rage was about the literal years of wasted dev time that CCP flushed down the drain playing Space Barbies every bit as much as it was about pay to win.
You're the one spinning, trying to draw a narrative more favorable to the agenda that you're trying to push, like the dishonest chav you are.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6688
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:05:09 -
[985] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:It was as much about one as it was the other, and to belittle those that felt **** on by the unnecessary development at the expense of fixing existing problems is to be a **** person. That is all. Say no to drugs. If you want to rewrite history go ahead. Some people like being delusional.
I'm not rewriting anything. Just read some of the articles about it, and Hilmar's apology, in which captain's quarters is the very first thing he subtitles, followed by virtual goods. Again, IZ, bullshit yourself all you like, but don't try to bullshit me. I have the evidence that proves what really happened, and it's easy enough to find with a simple google search that you have absolutely no excuse for your lying. None at all.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1221
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:10:05 -
[986] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: EvE history doesn't indicate yay or nay on WIS. The popular myth is the Summer of Nerd-Rage was about WIS but it was not, it was primarily about Greed is Good.
Greed is Good was about Walking in Stations. People now try to claim WiS and the NeX were all completely independant features which 'just happened' to get shipped in the same expansion, but thats misrepresenting the truth; they were shipped together because they were co-dependant. CCP came to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that the only mileage WiS had was as a window to a cash-shop. That was the reason for the rage, that after all that time wasted they baited-and-switched us, instead of a fully-functional gameplay expansion (that we were barely tolerating the neglect in order to recieve), all we got for a year and a half of complete neglect was microtransactions. Have you forgotten literal years of EvE WiS proponents discussing all the possibilities about player-made clothing? Hell, the idea of player stores still comes up to this day it was such a wanted feature within avatar-player circles. The NeX and microtransactions highjacked half the potential features WiS could have had, stillbirthing the whole concept.
We human beings have selective memories, and any recollections of those events are going to be selective "it was feature x I hated that caused the summer of rage, feature y I liked just got caught in the crossfire". But that's a lie, it was all to blame as it all contributed to the hilarious pile of garbage we got served called Incarna. Greed is Good wouldn't have even been noticed if not for the prices of the Nex items, which wouldn't have caused a ripple if player-made clothing had been an existing alternative, which might have been possible had Walking in Station had any gameplay element what so ever. But it didn't, and that's where we ended up. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
250
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:18:43 -
[987] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:It was as much about one as it was the other, and to belittle those that felt **** on by the unnecessary development at the expense of fixing existing problems is to be a **** person. That is all. Say no to drugs. If you want to rewrite history go ahead. Some people like being delusional. I'm not rewriting anything. Just read some of the articles about it, and Hilmar's apology, in which captain's quarters is the very first thing he subtitles, followed by virtual goods. Again, IZ, bullshit yourself all you like, but don't try to bullshit me. I have the evidence that proves what really happened, and it's easy enough to find with a simple google search that you have absolutely no excuse for your lying. None at all.
I wasn't here at the time. Reading Hilmar it seems as WiS never happened. Just maybe community feedback would have been different if there had been some content. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2347
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:22:42 -
[988] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: EvE history doesn't indicate yay or nay on WIS. The popular myth is the Summer of Nerd-Rage was about WIS but it was not, it was primarily about Greed is Good.
Greed is Good was about Walking in Stations. People now try to claim WiS and the NeX were all completely independant features which 'just happened' to get shipped in the same expansion, but thats misrepresenting the truth; they were shipped together because they were co-dependant. CCP came to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that the only mileage WiS had was as a window to a cash-shop. That was the reason for the rage, that after all that time wasted they baited-and-switched us, instead of a fully-functional gameplay expansion (that we were barely tolerating the neglect in order to recieve), all we got for a year and a half of complete neglect was microtransactions. Have you forgotten literal years of EvE WiS proponents discussing all the possibilities about player-made clothing? Hell, the idea of player stores still comes up to this day it was such a wanted feature within avatar-player circles. The NeX and microtransactions highjacked half the potential features WiS could have had, stillbirthing the whole concept. We human beings have selective memories, and any recollections of those events are going to be selective "it was feature x I hated that caused the summer of rage, feature y I liked just got caught in the crossfire". But that's a lie, it was all to blame as it all contributed to the hilarious pile of garbage we got served called Incarna. Greed is Good wouldn't have even been noticed if not for the prices of the Nex items, which wouldn't have caused a ripple if player-made clothing had been an existing alternative, which might have been possible had Walking in Station had any gameplay element what so ever. But it didn't, and that's where we ended up. It was more about golden ammo than about pointless avatar gear actually
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13876
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:28:00 -
[989] - Quote
embrel wrote: I wasn't here at the time. Reading Hilmar it seems as WiS never happened. Just maybe community feedback would have been different if there had been some content.
That's the part that always makes me laugh.
There will NEVER be any meaningful content arising from WiS. There could never be. It's the same problem they had with Captains Quarters, when they took away the old docking interface with it.
The only way that WiS will ever have meaningful content is if you attach an in game advantage to it. Without that, it is strictly inferior to the dock system. It's slower, clunky, lacking in useful menus, and the control scheme is put to shame by even a Commodore 64.
But if you give it an in game advantage, then you have locked that out for the people who just plain hate WiS, and that's even more unacceptable. You'd be punishing people merely for their preferred choice of interface, and that's not just bad game design, that's downright horrible game design.
Not only will it never have anything meaningful attached to it, it should never either. The only real choice is to kill the mechanic entirely. But CCP takes great delight in their sunken cost fallacies and unfinished features, so instead they're stringing it along until they are forced to face the inevitable. But refusal to face the truth does not change it. WiS is dead, and rightly so.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:39:30 -
[990] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:All those items listed add to the immersion of EVE. And fit within the context of a capsuleer experience.
WiS does not. A bunch of dudes in a bar playing poker does not. In your opinion is doesn't. In mine, a bunch of capsuleers meeting up in station drawing up battle plans with avatars and playing minigames within the station certainly does add to the immersion. Certainly more than the snazzy graphics which are usually turned down low and zoomed out too far to see, or the gripping music I've not heard since the day I unticked the "enable audio" box.
Desslok VonReich wrote:I would love to solved the WiS dilemma, and think of that must-have game play that justifies the development cost. Justification for the development cost only requires projected income. Whether it's "must-have" or not, if people are willing to pay for it or if it will bring more people in, it's justified.
Remiel Pollard wrote:WIS was tried. It failed. That really is the bottom line. No it wasn't and no it didn't. WiS barely got off the ground before the usual crowd started exploding with rage. Amusingly though, that same crowd whined about microtrans and those got cancelled too. But look at the game now, MT all over the place and growing. Clearly times change friend.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6689
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:39:49 -
[991] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: EvE history doesn't indicate yay or nay on WIS. The popular myth is the Summer of Nerd-Rage was about WIS but it was not, it was primarily about Greed is Good.
Greed is Good was about Walking in Stations. People now try to claim WiS and the NeX were all completely independant features which 'just happened' to get shipped in the same expansion, but thats misrepresenting the truth; they were shipped together because they were co-dependant. CCP came to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that the only mileage WiS had was as a window to a cash-shop. That was the reason for the rage, that after all that time wasted they baited-and-switched us, instead of a fully-functional gameplay expansion (that we were barely tolerating the neglect in order to recieve), all we got for a year and a half of complete neglect was microtransactions. Have you forgotten literal years of EvE WiS proponents discussing all the possibilities about player-made clothing? Hell, the idea of player stores still comes up to this day it was such a wanted feature within avatar-player circles. The NeX and microtransactions highjacked half the potential features WiS could have had, stillbirthing the whole concept. We human beings have selective memories, and any recollections of those events are going to be selective "it was feature x I hated that caused the summer of rage, feature y I liked just got caught in the crossfire". But that's a lie, it was all to blame as it all contributed to the hilarious pile of garbage we got served called Incarna. Greed is Good wouldn't have even been noticed if not for the prices of the Nex items, which wouldn't have caused a ripple if player-made clothing had been an existing alternative, which might have been possible had Walking in Station had any gameplay element what so ever. But it didn't, and that's where we ended up. It was more about golden ammo than about pointless avatar gear actually
Only one sentence this time? Your lies aren't getting the same effort as usual. I sense your resolve crumbling around you. Op success.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6689
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:42:08 -
[992] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:WIS was tried. It failed. That really is the bottom line. No it wasn't and no it didn't. WiS barely got off the ground before the usual crowd started exploding with rage. Amusingly though, that same crowd whined about microtrans and those got cancelled too. But look at the game now, MT all over the place and growing. Clearly times change friend.
Yes it was and yes it did. You even said so yourself in the same paragraph you tried to claim it didn't: "WiS barely got off the ground before the usual crowd started exploding with rage." It launched, and no one wanted it. I even posted links. Try keeping up, or keep failing, your choice. You're right, times change, and so too should EVE, but the very definition of insanity is trying the same thing and expecting different results. EVE needs to do things different from other MMOs, it needs to be unique. I don't mind new things, I just don't want the same things I can find elsewhere.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2347
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:47:27 -
[993] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:embrel wrote: I wasn't here at the time. Reading Hilmar it seems as WiS never happened. Just maybe community feedback would have been different if there had been some content.
That's the part that always makes me laugh. There will NEVER be any meaningful content arising from WiS. There could never be. It's the same problem they had with Captains Quarters, when they took away the old docking interface with it. The only way that WiS will ever have meaningful content is if you attach an in game advantage to it. Without that, it is strictly inferior to the dock system. It's slower, clunky, lacking in useful menus, and the control scheme is put to shame by even a Commodore 64. But if you give it an in game advantage, then you have locked that out for the people who just plain hate WiS, and that's even more unacceptable. You'd be punishing people merely for their preferred choice of interface, and that's not just bad game design, that's downright horrible game design. Not only will it never have anything meaningful attached to it, it should never either. The only real choice is to kill the mechanic entirely. But CCP takes great delight in their sunken cost fallacies and unfinished features, so instead they're stringing it along until they are forced to face the inevitable. But refusal to face the truth does not change it. WiS is dead, and rightly so. None sense. You could say the same about ship models or station art. EvE could be played with coloured dots and labels representing ships. All interfaces from stations could be accessed via space with ships becoming immune to in space interaction rather than docking. Fact is immersion is a huge part of any mmo.
You have no idea of human psychology as it relates to MMOs. I suggest you google Simlife and try to figure out some of that psychology before you post again in this thread. WIS does not need to provide EvE space benefits however a successful WIS will provide finances for in space development because people love a place to dock up and run around / chat / dance / trade that's not relate to the core gameplay of their MMOs.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6692
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:51:30 -
[994] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You have no idea of human psychology as it relates to MMOs.
And neither do you. Bottom line is, no one wanted it in EVE, as per the links provided already. Again, you talk about EVE as if it's just like every other MMO, and even if you do know psychology, what you don't know is EVE, so anything you think you know is irrelevant anyway.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13876
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:52:28 -
[995] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: None sense. You could say the same about ship models or station art.
First of all, nonsense is one word. Secondly, no, because those things contribute to the actual game. WiS does not, and never will.
Quote: You have no idea of human psychology as it relates to MMOs.
Look everyone, he's a psychologist now too. Any more made up credentials you'd like to try?
Quote: WIS does not need to provide EvE space benefits however a successful WIS will provide finances for in space development because people love a place to dock up and run around / chat / dance / trade that's not relate to the core gameplay of their MMOs.
Except that it's observably the opposite. CCP's having wasted time and development resources seriously hurt the game, and saddled them with a technical debt that they are still trying to pay off. It cost them tons of money, caused enormous layoffs, and was one of the biggest gaffes in the gaming industry until Star Scam, er I mean Star CItizen got started up.
WiS is a money hole, and you want CCP to throw some more down that hole. You are, as with everything, a fool.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
embrel
BamBam Inc.
250
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:52:29 -
[996] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:[quote=embrel] The only way that WiS will ever have meaningful content is if you attach an in game advantage to it. Without that, it is strictly inferior to the dock system. It's slower, clunky, lacking in useful menus, and the control scheme is put to shame by even a Commodore 64.
But if you give it an in game advantage, then you have locked that out for the people who just plain hate WiS, and that's even more unacceptable. You'd be punishing people merely for their preferred choice of interface, and that's not just bad game design, that's downright horrible game design.
Of course it'd need an in-game advantage. Some way to make ISK I guess; some content.
I always imagined it as sort of 2 games in one universe.
Not all players need to take part in all forms of content. I don't perceive it as punishment that I don't mine as an example.
However, it's quite academic. I seriously doubt that WiS is coming alive except in necrothreads. |
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6692
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 09:54:43 -
[997] - Quote
embrel wrote: I always imagined it as sort of 2 games in one universe.
That's part of the problem. I don't want my client bloated with content I'll never use. There are already games out there with what's being asked for, play them instead.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 10:21:09 -
[998] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Yes it was and yes it did. You even said so yourself in the same paragraph you tried to claim it didn't: "WiS barely got off the ground before the usual crowd started exploding with rage." lol, what they release was not WiS. It was one room and no involvement with other players. One room it's important to add that many people used. There were even people customising their video screens in there. To claim that what they got out was enough to prove that WiS didn't work is disingenuous.
Remiel Pollard wrote:It launched, and no one wanted it. Clearly that's not the case, otherwise these thread would not exist and wouldn't get so long when they appear.
Remiel Pollard wrote:EVE needs to do things different from other MMOs, it needs to be unique. I don't mind new things, I just don't want the same things I can find elsewhere. You are 100% correct, and mixing a tactical space shooter with a 3rd person RP heavy space station sim would be pretty different. At the moment it's just a bad attempt to mimic Elite, which with the release of the actual Elite sequel seems a bit silly. It's clear that the existing game elements are unlikely to become more immersive going forward and they already have half the tech needed for WiS in there, so I would have no issue with them pressing forward with it as long as development continued on the main mechanics too. Back when the originally looked at WiS that might have been a tough ask, but it's something they are more than capable of now they have they new development and release mechanism.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6696
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 10:27:50 -
[999] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Yes it was and yes it did. You even said so yourself in the same paragraph you tried to claim it didn't: "WiS barely got off the ground before the usual crowd started exploding with rage." lol, what they release was not WiS. It was one room and no involvement with other players. One room it's important to add that many people used. There were even people customising their video screens in there. To claim that what they got out was enough to prove that WiS didn't work is disingenuous. [/quote]
One room they used because they HAD to. It was FORCED, or did you leave that part out intentionally? The point is, it was done half-arsed at the expense of fixing existing problems, so everything you just said literally supports an argument AGAINST WiS.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13876
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 10:29:57 -
[1000] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: One room they used because they HAD to. It was FORCED, or did you leave that part out intentionally?
He also left out the part where it was frying graphics cards, overheating CPUs, crashing the client from memory leaks, and a bunch of other problems caused by some of the worst optimization ever seen in the industry.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 10:39:01 -
[1001] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Except that it's observably the opposite. CCP's having wasted time and development resources seriously hurt the game, and saddled them with a technical debt that they are still trying to pay off. It cost them tons of money, caused enormous layoffs, and was one of the biggest gaffes in the gaming industry until Star Scam, er I mean Star CItizen got started up.
WiS is a money hole, and you want CCP to throw some more down that hole. lol. That wasn't WiS, that was WoD, along with many other failings.
Remiel Pollard wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:lol, what they release was not WiS. It was one room and no involvement with other players. One room it's important to add that many people used. There were even people customising their video screens in there. To claim that what they got out was enough to prove that WiS didn't work is disingenuous. One room they used because they HAD to. It was FORCED, or did you leave that part out intentionally? The point is, it was done half-arsed at the expense of fixing existing problems, so everything you just said literally supports an argument AGAINST WiS. Even when they didn't HAVE to, people continued to use it. People still use it now. And it wasn't half-arsed, in itself it works very well. Half-arsed would be something like a partially untextured room and no interactive components. It works perfectly well, looks good and a lot of people do like it. It was simply stopped at one room because crybabies cried until they stopped developing it.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:One room they used because they HAD to. It was FORCED, or did you leave that part out intentionally? He also left out the part where it was frying graphics cards, overheating CPUs, crashing the client from memory leaks, and a bunch of other problems caused by some of the worst optimization ever seen in the industry. You mean like how nearly every big patch they release is followed by masses of fixes? The new UI pretty much killed the client for the first couple of patches. And no, it's was nowhere close to the worst optimization.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13877
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 10:50:07 -
[1002] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:lol. That wasn't WiS, that was WoD, along with many other failings.
No, it was outright ignoring the base game for years to focus development resources on WiS. Their having to play catch up to fix the game these past few years is that technical debt in action.
Quote: It was simply stopped at one room because crybabies cried until they stopped developing it.
It was revealed as one room. The crowning achievement of literally years of wasted dev time... one room.
It was one room because that's the best they could do.
Quote: The new UI pretty much killed the client for the first couple of patches.
And that was also a backflippingly bad idea. Notably, just like then, they don't bother listening to feedback, and they have to be screamed at before they backpedal on the bad idea.
Quote: And no, it's was nowhere close to the worst optimization.
I have played Bethesda games better optimized than that, and that's saying a lot.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 11:11:13 -
[1003] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:No, it was outright ignoring the base game for years to focus development resources on WiS. Their having to play catch up to fix the game these past few years is that technical debt in action. Lol, just no. Screenshots or it didn't happen. At this point you are just pulling "facts" out of your ass and acting like that's the way things are. I'm not going to say that WiS didn't contribute to the situation, but it certainly wasn't even a leading cause of the problems EVE had.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It was revealed as one room. The crowning achievement of literally years of wasted dev time... one room.
It was one room because that's the best they could do. It started as one room, and it ended because people lost their minds because for the most part people don't understand the work that goes into building the technology behind that room.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And that was also a backflippingly bad idea. Notably, just like then, they don't bother listening to feedback, and they have to be screamed at before they backpedal on the bad idea. Was it though? The new UI is now fine, and the improvements they've made to it make it much easier for them to expand on the UI than it ever was. You're simply too shortsighted to see the benefits. You want instant benefits.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I have played Bethesda games better optimized than that, and that's saying a lot. Not really, your claims of it being the worst optimization are simply unfounded. Did it have issues when it came out? Sure. Did it get rapidly fixed? Yes. There are games that are still unplayable because the level of bad in them. Then there's your classic examples, like Skyrim's insane loading times when you've played more than 20 hours or so, The Witches atrocious data access leading to constant delays in loading resources and Assassins Creed Unity with it being so bad at launch they gave away free DLC to make up for it.
I get it though, you hate WiS so you're going to have an unreasonably biased opinion. In your mind everything they did was terrible. Objectively that's not the case, it's simply not what a lot of the community at the time wanted and was a lot of work. Now with the community being quite different (MT are acceptable now, who knew?) the development processes being significantly improved as well as the fact that a lot of the groundwork is already done, it's far more reasonable to consider.
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Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
63
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 11:56:22 -
[1004] - Quote
WiS without meaningful gameplay (ie. making ISK) will always be a useless strain on videocards.
CCP can only make it work with a completely new gameplay that actually has the possibility to become a viable career. (Smuggling comes to mind).
That being said, Avatar gameplay could enhance the game as a whole big time. If it is done EVE style. Instead of the archeology minigame it would be way cooler to be able to dock and explore the wreckage yourself possibly fighting off rivals or pirates.
It is my opinion EVE needs this new content to survive in the long run. There will be other open ended, space sim sandboxgames that will implement space and avatar content. I don't think SC can pull it off but ED can.
This game urgently needs new content. (space and other) |
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6698
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 11:56:44 -
[1005] - Quote
1. that the development of WiS took place at the expense of existing problems with the game going unfixed is common knowledge. We don't need pics, I linked Hilmar's apology above. Read it before lying again.
2. Work that, as stated above, could have gone into fixing broken things that didn't get touched. Instead of fixing broken things, they gave us a room. No one lost their minds, they were righteously outraged at being given a new monorail with one station instead of getting the potholes in their roads fixed. That's an analogy, btw, in case you didn't figure it out.
3. It was disgusting, that's not a claim, it's a fact. It was forced, no more ship hangar, you had to load into CQ. So people who met the min requirements to fly spaceships in space suddenly couldn't meet the requirements to load CQ, and couldn't play because that's where you got logged in to. Forget the shoddy optimisation, let's talk about people who couldn't play the game at all when they'd been playing just fine the day before, and could be playing just fine if CQ wasn't forced on everyone
I've seen disingenuous from all walks of life, but you set one hell of a benchmark. Well done. Just when I thought scientologists couldn't get any more desperate to retain members, Lucas Kell comes along to show them how it's done.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2347
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 12:24:13 -
[1006] - Quote
Misconceptions here:
1 that CCP allocated resources from EvE to WIS depriving EvE of resources.
2 that a poor implementation on an idea means the idea was bad.
3 that the "majority of players didn't want WIS"
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 12:52:31 -
[1007] - Quote
Rewriting quotes like that is against the rules.
Remiel Pollard wrote:1. that the development of WiS took place at the expense of existing problems with the game going unfixed is common knowledge. We don't need pics, I linked Hilmar's apology above. Read it before lying again. I didn;t say it wasn't part of it, I simply disagree with your assertion that it was such a big and enduring impact, and certainly don't believe it would be the case should they choose to pick up WiS now.
Remiel Pollard wrote:2. Work that, as stated above, could have gone into fixing broken things that didn't get touched. Instead of fixing broken things, they gave us a room. No one lost their minds, they were righteously outraged at being given a new monorail with one station instead of getting the potholes in their roads fixed. That's an analogy, btw, in case you didn't figure it out. Some part may have done, sure. Others didn't. They still released other patches and fixes during that time. Even Incarna itself also came with NPE changes, the JB changes and a revamp to dogma among other things.
And yes, people lost their minds. I've never before and never since seen such disgraceful displays of entitlement as that. People freaked the **** out over their game not receiving as much content - for free - as they hoped for that expansion.
Remiel Pollard wrote:3. It was disgusting, that's not a claim, it's a fact. It was forced, no more ship hangar, you had to load into CQ. So people who met the min requirements to fly spaceships in space suddenly couldn't meet the requirements to load CQ, and couldn't play because that's where you got logged in to. Forget the shoddy optimisation, let's talk about people who couldn't play the game at all when they'd been playing just fine the day before, and could be playing just fine if CQ wasn't forced on everyone Oh boo ******* hoo. For a few days you had to look at a room when you docked and if you had a PC that was below the stated minimum requirements for the game you had trouble playing. There is always going to be a risk of that happening if you choose to try to squeeze an MMO onto a machine barely capable of handling it in low settings.
I bet you were one of those that went mental when they stopped you ship spinning too, right?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3876
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 13:03:30 -
[1008] - Quote
Solkara Starlock wrote:WiS without meaningful gameplay (ie. making ISK) will always be a useless strain on videocards.
CCP can only make it work with a completely new gameplay that actually has the possibility to become a viable career. (Smuggling comes to mind).
That being said, Avatar gameplay could enhance the game as a whole big time. If it is done EVE style. Instead of the archeology minigame it would be way cooler to be able to dock and explore the wreckage yourself possibly fighting off rivals or pirates.
It is my opinion EVE needs this new content to survive in the long run. There will be other open ended, space sim sandboxgames that will implement space and avatar content. I don't think SC can pull it off but ED can.
This game urgently needs new content. (space and other)
Agreed. And by "new content" it means "something never done before", not something that was done years ago and is being imitated.
Sovereignty 3.0 is useless to those who never played Sov. Incursions 2.0 are useless to those who never played Incursions. POSes 2.0 are useless to those who never owned a POS. Wormholes 2.0 are useless to those who never played WH.
And those above, are not just "uncool" veteran players. Those above are the definition of every future player of EVE Online.
Who wants to compete with 12 years old veterans doing some updated version of some sh*t they learned to do years ago when it was actually new?
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3876
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 13:14:51 -
[1009] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:(...) In EVE, your ship is your avatar (...)
False. EVE has always had humanoid avatars, unique and individual, to compensate for the fact that ships are impersonal tools and the average human being won't attach to them.
In Elite: Dangerous, your ship IS your avatar, and that sucks so badly that I haven't even downloaded the game yet. I can't convince msyelf to give up Ish or my other girls for a stupid Eagle that will look exactly like each other bloody Eagle in the universe...
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1223
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 13:18:40 -
[1010] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Yes it was and yes it did. You even said so yourself in the same paragraph you tried to claim it didn't: "WiS barely got off the ground before the usual crowd started exploding with rage." lol, what they release was not WiS. It was one room and no involvement with other players. One room it's important to add that many people used. There were even people customising their video screens in there. To claim that what they got out was enough to prove that WiS didn't work is disingenuous.
Not being able to produce something is pretty much the definition of it not working.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11986
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 13:28:33 -
[1011] - Quote
This thread about a dead topic is an example of why stupid and bad things keep happening in real life too.
It's because people stick to their beliefs rather than analkyse actual data and learn from history. In this particular case, many overly optimistic "Immersion gamer" type people who can't learn not only from CCP's past, but things like "PlayStation Home" and Cloud Imperium/Star Citizen's current problems with Star Marine. And because they can't learn, they advocate for a situation that would REPEAT FAILURE because CCP (as wonderful as they are) just isn't the company to deliver the kind of product these unrealistic people claim to want.
It's not unlike how in real life sometimes I've watch our friends go back into a bad relationship again, time after time "in hopes that it will be wonderful this time" despite year after year after year of evidence that it just doesn't work. And no it doesn't matter that you will "just do things a little different this time" lol,.
If CCP couldn't make this idea work at the height of it's power as a company, why do some of you think they can and should do so now? Have none of you ever entertained the idea that CCP could not survive another such major failure (which is why CCP decided to play it safe)? Have all of you failed to notice that EVERYTHING CCP tried that wasn't space ships failed or fizzled? Ambulation/EVA gameplay, planetary interaction (underwhelming), flying in atmosphere, DUST and the EVE-DUST link, WoD.
The smart thing for CCP is to say "ok, lets do spaceships" and leave the rest of it alone. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 13:43:16 -
[1012] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Yes it was and yes it did. You even said so yourself in the same paragraph you tried to claim it didn't: "WiS barely got off the ground before the usual crowd started exploding with rage." lol, what they release was not WiS. It was one room and no involvement with other players. One room it's important to add that many people used. There were even people customising their video screens in there. To claim that what they got out was enough to prove that WiS didn't work is disingenuous. Not being able to produce something is pretty much the definition of it not working. I'd agree, except that's not what happened here. Clearly the were able to produce it, they built the system behind it and the room itself with a nice view of your docked ship and interactive components, and all of that works very well. They didn't stop because they were unable to make a second room, they stopped because some of their overly entitled players threw a wobbly because it wasn't what they wanted. If they took a real shot at building WiS I think they'd do a good job of it and while some people wouldn't care about it's existence (like some don't care about asteroid fragments) a lot of people would like it and use it.
I liked the casino in TDU 2 too, even though it wasn't directly involving the racing of cars.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1295
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 13:43:35 -
[1013] - Quote
jenn hit it on the head.
Its sorta like fps's these days, take call of duty for example and compare it to battlefield, cod was if not still the biggest game of that kind, but you cant drive vehicles in cod, battlefield you can, and blow buildings up, this is a prime example that the game doesnt need that sort of thing to be successful, and for everyone to say "we need wis to compete" no we dont
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11990
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:04:36 -
[1014] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:jenn hit it on the head.
Its sorta like fps's these days, take call of duty for example and compare it to battlefield, cod was if not still the biggest game of that kind, but you cant drive vehicles in cod, battlefield you can, and blow buildings up, this is a prime example that the game doesnt need that sort of thing to be successful, and for everyone to say "we need wis to compete" no we dont.
Exactly. And CoD works so well for the same reason EVE (and Tanks and other games) do, they focus on what they are rather than trying to be all things to all people.
I mention Tanks and other games like Mechwarrior for a reason, because I saw the same things in both. When is infantry coming in tanks (this despite umpteen million infantry games on the market) and Why can't we have Elemental Infantry and Aerospace Fighters in Mechwarrior?!?!? lol.
EVe should always be squarely focused on spaceships. Sure a few "everything" type games work (like Battlefield), but they were designed that way from the start, EVE wasn't.
A comprehensive "World of New Eden" game with space ships and walking around and atmospheric flight etc would need to be start from scratch with that stuff in mind, trying to jury rig new crap on to an old game like (spaceships and spreadsheets) EVE is stupid, and we've seen his time and again for 12 years. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:09:18 -
[1015] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:If CCP couldn't make this idea work at the height of it's power as a company, why do some of you think they can and should do so now? There was a lot they couldn't (or wouldn't attempt to) achieve back then. Times change friend.
Jenn aSide wrote:The smart thing for CCP is to say "ok, lets do spaceships" and leave the rest of it alone. And yet they are still losing both players and devs and spaceship mechanics aren't progressing anywhere near as well as they should be.
Lan Wang wrote:for everyone to say "we need wis to compete" no we dont. Battlefield arguably does need vehicles to compete, since other than that there's little reason to choose it over CoD. That said I'm not saying it's needed to compete, but it certainly would be nice to have. I'd like EVE to get to a point where it's entertaining enough that I don't feel the need to play PS4 on the side whenever I'm playing EVE. When I play Elite, I play Elite and that's that.
Lan Wang wrote:@Lucas - being able to produce a small room looking at something static does not mean they can produce the rest of the interaction based stuff and content It doesn't mean they can't either. And consider how much ground work has to go into that one room. The rendering of the avatars, movement, collision, map rendering, interaction with the environment. A lot of that would be carried over to any new development they did for WiS.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1296
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Posted - 2015.07.30 14:18:32 -
[1016] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:If CCP couldn't make this idea work at the height of it's power as a company, why do some of you think they can and should do so now? There was a lot they couldn't (or wouldn't attempt to) achieve back then. Times change friend. Jenn aSide wrote:The smart thing for CCP is to say "ok, lets do spaceships" and leave the rest of it alone. And yet they are still losing both players and devs and spaceship mechanics aren't progressing anywhere near as well as they should be. Lan Wang wrote:for everyone to say "we need wis to compete" no we dont. Battlefield arguably does need vehicles to compete, since other than that there's little reason to choose it over CoD. That said I'm not saying it's needed to compete, but it certainly would be nice to have. I'd like EVE to get to a point where it's entertaining enough that I don't feel the need to play PS4 on the side whenever I'm playing EVE. When I play Elite, I play Elite and that's that. Lan Wang wrote:@Lucas - being able to produce a small room looking at something static does not mean they can produce the rest of the interaction based stuff and content It doesn't mean they can't either. And consider how much ground work has to go into that one room. The rendering of the avatars, movement, collision, map rendering, interaction with the environment. A lot of that would be carried over to any new development they did for WiS.
yeah it doesnt mean they cant but can they produce it to as high quality to the likes of similar games like mass effect, i pick mass effect because they done it right and it worked in which i would imagine most of the people in here would be expecting the wis route to go down, wis would be first, then walking in ships, then walking on planets, then fps mode where you can shoot stuff, it all gets very complex and turns into a massive game thats not about spaceships
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6699
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:25:57 -
[1017] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Another Epic Essay
Honestly, I feel like you're intentionally trying to miss the point now.
1. Read Hilmar's apology. If you've already read it, read it again, because I'm not asserting anything that isn't in that apology, or the numerous articles that came out about it all over the internet.
2. You are intentionally ignoring what I'm saying, so I'll put it in simple terms for your simple mind: no matter how you try to spin it, Incarna blew off **** the game needed for **** it didn't need. People are allowed to get outraged about that. You might be a doormat, but most people aren't walked over so easily. Deny this fact all you want, but again, it's in the apology, and the articles. CCP DIRECTLY ADMITTED that they dun goofed here.
3. Again, you aren't reading. You need to read, it's important. I didn't say people whose computer specs didn't meet the minimum, I said people whose computer specs DID meet the minimum now could no longer load the game because CQ was a resource hog, and you damn well know it. And don't stand there like some elitist ****-stain less precious than dried *** on bedsheets and pretend like people missing out on their PAID FOR ******* GAME TIME is something you can "boo hoo" at them about. I've seriously picked things more precious than you from my foreskin for that little bit of obnoxious stuck-up dismissal. And I'll remember it the next time you're on the forums complaining about something not working. Rest assured, I have excellent memory.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11992
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:28:55 -
[1018] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:There was a lot they couldn't (or wouldn't attempt to) achieve back then. Times change friend. - And yet they are still losing both players and devs and spaceship mechanics aren't progressing anywhere near as well as they should be.
I am not your friend, you don't have people like you for friends.
And spaceship mechanics are fine. I think is was some Gevlon article that suggested that any decline in EVe was from high sec, meaning mostly casual types to begin with, meaning no big loss.
But below is the main point:
Quote:Battlefield arguably does need vehicles to compete, since other than that there's little reason to choose it over CoD. That said I'm not saying it's needed to compete, but it certainly would be nice to have. I'd like EVE to get to a point where it's entertaining enough that I don't feel the need to play PS4 on the side whenever I'm playing EVE. When I play Elite, I play Elite and that's that.
While you are plainsong other games because you don't think EVE is entertaining enough, I'm playing 3 EVE accounts and a buddy with another 2 accounts at once. Like last night in wicked creek, I got an escalation, so we rolled out (me in my Tengu and Machariel) to go hit that will I left the 3rd toon 'at home' ratting Forsaken Rally Points and Hubs an FoF missile Raven.
While in the 10/10 a neutral guy comes in, and I notice combat scanner probe. The mach could get out easy because it had a MJD, but the tengu was scrammed so I had to switch to precision missiles to kill the scrams (and got a lucky hit on one elite frig from the mach) to get both ships out before the guy in the Confessor could track me down. I was able to cloak both ships and my buddy did the same with his 2 ships and the Confessor eventually F'd off for easier meat. We pulled an X-Type XL Shield Booster and some other knick-knacks out of that plex btw.
While I'm fighting to evade that confessor, i hear someone trying to lock my Raven I left ratting (this is why I use sound). I tab over to the Raven (i only have 2 monitors) and there is a freaking CROW coming at me, but I was 150 off the anom beacon (cruise missiles are great) and more than 75km so he had to burn, I MJD'd the raven out then warped and barely survived. Don't ask me why he tried to lock me form so far out, but I'm glad he did lol.
After it all my blood is really pumping, I didn't die, they didn't get any kills and I got nice loot and unlike you I had zero need or desire to be playing something else while playing EVE. And yet rather than understand that the lack of entertainment you experience from EVE is all about you (not the fact that CCP doesn't like you walk around in short shorts in a space station), you think CCP should do something for you because "it would be nice".
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24488
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:35:29 -
[1019] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Misconceptions here:
1 that CCP allocated resources from EvE to WIS depriving EvE of resources.
2 that a poor implementation on an idea means the idea was bad.
3 that the "majority of players didn't want WIS"
While you may be right on items 2 and 3, item 1 is not a misconception, CCP blew at least 18 months of development time on WIS which would have been far better spent to fix what was broken in the base game of FIS.
People wanted the WIS they had been promised, not what was delivered.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1297
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:36:30 -
[1020] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:End of the day, it doesn't matter how much work has to go into something, if it isn't released right, it ain't gonna work. This is the same bullshit excuse they keep coming out with for buggy and incomplete game releases, and I don't buy it, ever. If it needs more work, then put more work in before releasing it, simple as that.
slightly off topic, they sorted that whole situation out by ceasing to release demos and now all this "early access" bull so they can get away with releasing broken games/demos that you pay for. its a sad state these days
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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embrel
BamBam Inc.
250
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Posted - 2015.07.30 14:44:52 -
[1021] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: It's because people stick to their beliefs rather than analkyse actual data and learn from history.
a tad pessimistic it seems. one failure is not a sufficient basis to "learn from history" and contradicts the Batman quote "why do we fall...". However, whether or not CCP could deliver is something I have no idea about. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
476
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:47:13 -
[1022] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Hahaha barbies of death. yes. You would be surprised how accurate that statement is. Unfortunately.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11994
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:49:14 -
[1023] - Quote
embrel wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: It's because people stick to their beliefs rather than analkyse actual data and learn from history.
a tad pessimistic it seems. one failure is not a sufficient basis to "learn from history" and contradicts the Batman quote "why do we fall...". However, whether or not CCP could deliver is something I have no idea about.
One failure?
"Everything CCP has tried over 12 years failed except spaceships" is not one failure. Also, Batman is not a real person lol. Realism is often mistaken for pessimism by people with unrealistic expectations. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
476
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:58:12 -
[1024] - Quote
Its not about pesimism or realism, its about Hillmar not giving a **** about what you do in game as long as he can milk it. He have guys and gals who make everything for him meanwhile. Even write his official letters to us.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:09:02 -
[1025] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Honestly, I feel like you're intentionally trying to miss the point now. No, I simply disagree with you and you're arrogant enough to believe that what you are saying is gospel.
Remiel Pollard wrote:1. Read Hilmar's apology. If you've already read it, read it again, because I'm not asserting anything that isn't in that apology, or the numerous articles that came out about it all over the internet. I've read it. It's your bog standard PR apology trying to quell the raged masses. It even states "This is our vision for her, and we want so badly to take you there" linking to the walking in stations trailer.
Remiel Pollard wrote:2. You are intentionally ignoring what I'm saying, so I'll put it in simple terms for your simple mind: no matter how you try to spin it, Incarna blew off **** the game needed for **** it didn't need. People are allowed to get outraged about that. You might be a doormat, but most people aren't walked over so easily. Deny this fact all you want, but again, it's in the apology, and the articles. CCP DIRECTLY ADMITTED that they dun goofed here. Nice personal attack bro. And I'm not ignoring anything, I simply disagree. Development did not halt while they were working on WiS, and while yes, obviously some time got devoted to WiS, the main problem wasn;t that their development was on the wrong thing, it was that arrogant, overly entitled players like yourself freaked the **** out when they wanted to implement features you don't like.
Remiel Pollard wrote:3. Again, you aren't reading. You need to read, it's important. I didn't say people whose computer specs didn't meet the minimum, I said people whose computer specs DID meet the minimum now could no longer load the game because CQ was a resource hog, and you damn well know it. And don't stand there like some elitist ****-stain less precious than dried *** on bedsheets and pretend like people missing out on their PAID FOR ******* GAME TIME is something you can "boo hoo" at them about. I've seriously picked things more precious than you from my foreskin for that little bit of obnoxious stuck-up dismissal. And I'll remember it the next time you're on the forums complaining about something not working. Rest assured, I have excellent memory. Show me all these people who's specs met the advertised minimum requirements (not the ones who could just about lag along in the game with systems way under the minimum) yet couldn't play because the CQ was too much to handle. I had a laptop way under specced for it and that got me a couple of FPS in the station to undock.
Note: I'm not claiming that noone had issues loading the game, I'm simply stating that on a system free of malware above or at the minimum specs with up to date drivers, nearly all players would have been able to play, as is the case with the vast majority of games.
Remiel Pollard wrote:End of the day, it doesn't matter how much work has to go into something, if it isn't released right, it ain't gonna work. This is the same bullshit excuse they keep coming out with for buggy and incomplete game releases, and I don't buy it, ever. If it needs more work, then put more work in before releasing it, simple as that. And that's all we're saying here, CCP should put more work in WiS and do it right. Had they not had you over entitled lot screaming at them and shooting monuments, perhaps it would have been done long ago.
Please refrain from further personal attacks, screaming and misquoting my posts.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:17:47 -
[1026] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I am not your friend, you don't have people like you for friends. Sure you are friend.
Jenn aSide wrote:And spaceship mechanics are fine. I think is was some Gevlon article that suggested that any decline in EVe was from high sec, meaning mostly casual types to begin with, meaning no big loss. That it was on Gevlon's blog means it's worth less that nothing. Seriously, that guys usually manages to get things the complete opposite of right.
As for your elitist hate of casuals - *shrug* - they pay subs so who cares if they want to log in for 10 hours a day or not.
But below is the main point:
Jenn aSide wrote:While you are plainsong other games because you don't think EVE is entertaining enough, I'm playing 3 EVE accounts and a buddy with another 2 accounts at once. Like last night in wicked creek, I got an escalation, so we rolled out (me in my Tengu and Machariel) to go hit that will I left the 3rd toon 'at home' ratting Forsaken Rally Points and Hubs an FoF missile Raven.
While in the 10/10 a neutral guy comes in, and I notice combat scanner probe. The mach could get out easy because it had a MJD, but the tengu was scrammed so I had to switch to precision missiles to kill the scrams (and got a lucky hit on one elite frig from the mach) to get both ships out before the guy in the Confessor could track me down. I was able to cloak both ships and my buddy did the same with his 2 ships and the Confessor eventually F'd off for easier meat. We pulled an X-Type XL Shield Booster and some other knick-knacks out of that plex btw.
While I'm fighting to evade that confessor, i hear someone trying to lock my Raven I left ratting (this is why I use sound). I tab over to the Raven (i only have 2 monitors) and there is a freaking CROW coming at me, but I was 150 off the anom beacon (cruise missiles are great) and more than 75km so he had to burn, I MJD'd the raven out then warped and barely survived. Don't ask me why he tried to lock me form so far out, but I'm glad he did lol.
After it all my blood is really pumping, I didn't die, they didn't get any kills and I got nice loot and unlike you I had zero need or desire to be playing something else while playing EVE. And yet rather than understand that the lack of entertainment you experience from EVE is all about you (not the fact that CCP doesn't like you walk around in short shorts in a space station), you think CCP should do something for you because "it would be nice". So you are easily entertained, that's good to know. I generally have between 4 and 16 accounts logged on at any one time, usually with at least 2 different playstyles and don't find that as entertaining as it could be (though entertaining enough to stick about). The reason for that is that EVE is not immersive. Nothing drags you in and keeps you in, because nearly every mechanic is passive. There's a reason it's nicknamed "spreadsheets in space".
And no, I don't think CCP should do something for me because first off I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm important enough to drive dev direction and secondly they already have me as a paying customer so they don't need to appease me further. What I am saying though is this is one of the problem areas I see in this game from my perspective.
With enough info from enough players on what they legitimately see as areas of the game that aren't as entertaining or could be improved, CCP can make educated decisions on where to take the game. OTOH, saying "I don't like this idea which wouldn't affect me in the slightest cos :reasons: and if CCP try to put it in I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick" isn't helpful. It's entitlement. Like other people who like other things aren't good enough to come and play your game. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1298
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:25:00 -
[1027] - Quote
wis would affect everyone, if it didnt pull in millions of subscribers then people in game are just handed an excuse to stay docked, that alone is a bad thing for a space game such as eve
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6451
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:25:57 -
[1028] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:One failure?
"Everything CCP has tried over 12 years failed except spaceships" is not one failure. Arguably spaceships is also failing, so the problem may not be development direction.
Jenn aSide wrote:Also, Batman is not a real person lol. Realism is often mistaken for pessimism by people with unrealistic expectations. And that means that nothing said within films can be applied to real life?
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1224
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:27:53 -
[1029] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: slightly off topic, they sorted that whole situation out by ceasing to release demos and now all this "early access" bull so they can get away with releasing broken games/demos that you pay for. its a sad state these days
:Warning: I can rant for hours about this :Warning:
I think as gamers, we have let games developers get away with far too much crap. The genie is well out the bottle now, but Microtransactions, DLC (when has it even been right to release 80% of a game and demand more money for the rest!), paid for early-access, Beta releases, Alpha releases (and no, there is no such thing as a pre-Alpha - Star Citizen fans, show some goddamn self-respect and demand a game!) is all rubbish and cross the whole spectrum between cheeky to outright scamming. Bring back the days of paying your money, and getting a finished game :Rage:
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6452
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:28:31 -
[1030] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:wis would affect everyone, if it didnt pull in millions of subscribers then people in game are just handed an excuse to stay docked, that alone is a bad thing for a space game such as eve People already have an excuse to stay docked, that's why Jita has so many docked players.
And if you think about it, having different things at different stations and some stuff tied to corp office rental would encourage people to fly around to different stations rather than remotely doing everything.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1299
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:31:37 -
[1031] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Lan Wang wrote:wis would affect everyone, if it didnt pull in millions of subscribers then people in game are just handed an excuse to stay docked, that alone is a bad thing for a space game such as eve People already have an excuse to stay docked, that's why Jita has so many docked players. And if you think about it, having different things at different stations and some stuff tied to corp office rental would encourage people to fly around to different stations rather than remotely doing everything.
lazy players will want an unattackable bus to take them places :)
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11994
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:33:59 -
[1032] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So you are easily entertained, that's good to know. I generally have between 4 and 16 accounts logged on at any one time, usually with at least 2 different playstyles and don't find that as entertaining as it could be (though entertaining enough to stick about). The reason for that is that EVE is not immersive. Nothing drags you in and keeps you in, because nearly every mechanic is passive. There's a reason it's nicknamed "spreadsheets in space".
So, rather than understand that it's you, you blame 'the mechanics'.
EVE is immersive to the type of player that can be immersed by what it has to offer (people like me and unlike you and Isthanchuk). Even now away from home I'm sitting here thinking about how I can turn a ratting ishtar into something that can fight back against a ceptor gank (hmm, point plus gecko + web drone plus medium drones for extra dps hmmmm). I'm immersed and I'm not even playing...
What you are doing is common among people who blame external things rather than look inward, and it's annoying as hell because eyou types never understand that you unhappiness is internal and no amount of fixing extra l things can help.
Translation, you are more fit for Elite than EVE, but would rather see EVE change (which would kill the game for those of us who love it) rather than just F'ing off to play something you like.
Quote: And no, I don't think CCP should do something for me because first off I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm important enough to drive dev direction and secondly they already have me as a paying customer so they don't need to appease me further. What I am saying though is this is one of the problem areas I see in this game from my perspective.
And it is the very perspective that is wrong.
Quote: With enough info from enough players on what they legitimately see as areas of the game that aren't as entertaining or could be improved, CCP can make educated decisions on where to take the game. OTOH, saying "I don't like this idea which wouldn't affect me in the slightest cos :reasons: and if CCP try to put it in I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick" isn't helpful. It's entitlement. Like other people who like other things aren't good enough to come and play your game. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad.
There is that other thing that you do (it's just deflection btw). it's the idea that people care about this issue 'despite the fact that it would affect them'. It's a variation of the old "you just want me to platy your way" lie that people tell themselves when faced with an uncomfortable truth. Now one gives a damn about how you play, no one cares if you want to play space barbie, have at it.
However CCP wasting time affects everyone. CCP repeating past mistakes affects everyone. CCP taking finite resources away from something they do well (spaceships) trying to appease people who can't be made happy in the 1st place with non-spaceship fluff affects everyone. CCP is just not a good company when it divides it's attention. CCP is a good company when it focuses on what is important and what it is good at.
And if CCP gives you what you want, and it goes wrong, and they lose everything, you aren't going to take any of them in and feed them, now are you? This is why what you say and what you want are ultimately irresponsible.
What I'm saying to CCP is "keep doing what you know works, keep your jobs, your ability to feed your families, and ignore these massively entitled A-holes who think you should risk all that again so that they can pretend they are space pilots having a space meeting in a space hanger".
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11994
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:40:10 -
[1033] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Arguably spaceships is also failing, so the problem may not be development direction.
Can you log in to EVE right now? Have people been able to do so for more than a decade? How much money have people spent on EVE in 12 years. Is EVE providing a living to CCP workers?
That is not a failure, and your attempt to manipulate the situation by suggesting that EVE is dying when it is not is very transparent (and typical of one such as you).
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Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6700
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:59:30 -
[1034] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Honestly, I feel like you're intentionally trying to miss the point now. No, I simply disagree with facts.
Fixed that for you.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
477
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 16:07:10 -
[1035] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: However CCP wasting time affects everyone.
Wasting time like in CCP creating Skin for a ship I have no intend of flying? How is it affecting everyone beside me? Are all people like me? No. But what if they would be, copies of Nana flying the same ship over and over again. No, they would change it from time to time. Preferences can change, I know it because I know myself. People who dont know themselves think the world would look better when everything would be as they wish. There is one world and many people thinking that way. Let them have their small part of it, so they can live the way they want, in here. Dont force them, let them slip into their own cozy station, where they can emote themselves to death while sipping Quafe and talking about who have rounder ass.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6452
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 16:08:22 -
[1036] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:lazy players will want an unattackable bus to take them places :) I'm sure they will :) They probably won't get it.
Jenn aSide wrote:EVE is immersive to the type of player that can be immersed by what it has to offer (people like me and unlike you and Isthanchuk). Even now away from home I'm sitting here thinking about how I can turn a ratting ishtar into something that can fight back against a ceptor gank (hmm, point plus gecko + web drone plus medium drones for extra dps hmmmm). I'm immersed and I'm not even playing...
What you are doing is common among people who blame external things rather than look inward, and it's annoying as hell because you types never understand that your unhappiness is internal and no amount of fixing extra outside things can help.
Translation, you are more fit for Elite than EVE, but would rather see EVE change (which would kill the game for those of us who love it) rather than just F'ing off to play something you like. And you obviously like Elite better because you just demonstrated that. Actually, I like both, and so I play both. And remember, WiS was CCPs own vision for EVE. That's the vision I support. More immersion is what I've supported since I started in 05. What you're effectively saying is that EVE should only support players like you and everyone else should get ******, even if CCP want to branch out to more players. You seriously don't realise how arrogant and entitled that sounds?
Jenn aSide wrote:And it is the very perspective that is wrong. In your opinion... CCP need to hear opinions from all different types and decide what to do with all of them, not just yours because you said so.
Jenn aSide wrote:There is that other thing that you do (it's just deflection btw). it's the idea that people care about this issue 'despite the fact that it would affect them'. It's a variation of the old "you just want me to platy your way" lie that people tell themselves when faced with an uncomfortable truth. Now one gives a damn about how you play, no one cares if you want to play space barbie, have at it.
However CCP wasting time affects everyone. CCP repeating past mistakes affects everyone. CCP taking finite resources away from something they do well (spaceships) trying to appease people who can't be made happy in the 1st place with non-spaceship fluff affects everyone. CCP is just not a good company when it divides it's attention. CCP is a good company when it focuses on what is important and what it is good at. It really depends on what "wasting time" is, and that's subjective. To me, asteroid belt debris, skins, the entire new rendering system, all the new icons and anything they do to lowsec/wormhole space is "wasting time" because it's all things I don't care about.
What you're saying here is once again "What I don't like is bad, CCP shouldn't do that". Sorry friend, but that's not your decision. CCP should know that if they choose to push forward with their goal of having WiS, there are plenty of people that will support that. You want to put across that we are objectively wrong for supporting that, but we're not, it's simply a matter of taste.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6452
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 16:13:58 -
[1037] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Can you log in to EVE right now? Nope, I'm not at home.
Jenn aSide wrote:Have people been able to do so for more than a decade? For the most part.
Jenn aSide wrote:How much money have people spent on EVE in 12 years. Who knows, CCP haven't been publishing sub numbers since they started dropping.
Jenn aSide wrote:Is EVE providing a living to CCP workers? That really depends on the worker. I guess the answer is going to have to be "yes" because technically all the ones they laid off and so are no longer providing a living for aren't CCP workers anymore.
Jenn aSide wrote:That is not a failure, and your attempt to manipulate the situation by suggesting that EVE is dying when it is not is very transparent (and typical of one such as you). Their sub numbers peaked and they are now struggling to keep up with attrition. I logged on my guys the other day and was 0.11% of the logged in population on my own. So yes, to an extent I'd say that developing more spaceship mechanics yet losing players is a sign of failure.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11995
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 16:31:25 -
[1038] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Actually, I like both, and so I play both.
You just said you find EVE so uninteresting that you play other games while playing it.
Quote: And remember, WiS was CCPs own vision for EVE. That's the vision I support.
Microsoft had a vision called Zune once. How many times does a vision have to fail before you say "whelp, that wasn't a good idea?
Quote: More immersion is what I've supported since I started in 05. What you're effectively saying is that EVE should only support players like you and everyone else should get ******, even if CCP want to branch out to more players. You seriously don't realise how arrogant and entitled that sounds?
Being in (and wanting to maintain) a situation one is already fit for instead of watching that situation be perverted by unhappy incompatible people is not "arrogant and entitled". What is arrogant and entitled is expecting the world to change to suit you rather than you changing yourself to suit it.
EVE is not what you want it to be. It cannot be. Asking CCP to make it into something you'd like more when you already have options you like such as Elite (where as people like me have much more limited options, most of the gaming world is to panzy for us) is the definition of greed.
Quote: It really depends on what "wasting time" is, and that's subjective. To me, asteroid belt debris, skins, the entire new rendering system, all the new icons and anything they do to lowsec/wormhole space is "wasting time" because it's all things I don't care about.
Those things are about space ships or space, thus they are relevant. I do't care about them either, but they meet the "focuses on spaceships" requirement.
Things with legs sitting on furniture do not.
[/quote] What you're saying here is once again "What I don't like is bad, CCP shouldn't do that". Sorry friend, but that's not your decision. CCP should know that if they choose to push forward with their goal of having WiS, there are plenty of people that will support that. You want to put across that we are objectively wrong for supporting that, but we're not, it's simply a matter of taste.[/quote]
Your taste is wrong. You are literally the Vegan sitting in a steak house complaining. CCP used to be wrong as well, which is why they had so many failures. Now CCP is doing it right for the most part (focusing on what they know how to do). I know that burns y'all unrealistic types, but there it is.
My 'side' is winning, and has won the war, CCP has no plans for this crap. We're posting in this thread to remind CCP that your side was defeated (not by us, by reality....) for a damn good reason, so CCP does not repeat the failures of the past. Because doing so would put this game we play at real risk. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2060
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 16:54:38 -
[1039] - Quote
So far in life I've learned that things always stay the same and companies hate making money... Maybe CCP has learned and won't be destroying their main game but actually make it improve without trying to be all things to all people (hey, it could happen!)
In any case, adapt or die, I suppose.
Que sera, sera.
ITT: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6452
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:00:30 -
[1040] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You just said you find EVE so uninteresting that you play other games while playing it. Which doesn;t mean I get no enjoyment from it, it simply isn;t immersive or challenging enough to draw my complete attention.
Jenn aSide wrote:Microsoft had a vision called Zune once. How many times does a vision have to fail before you say "whelp, that wasn't a good idea? It's currently called Xbox Music and is soon to be called Groove, with the hardware and software now integrated into windows phones and xboxes. I've got an active subscription. I'd bet they have more subs than EVE.
Jenn aSide wrote:Being in (and wanting to maintain) a situation one is already fit for instead of watching that situation be perverted by unhappy incompatible people is not "arrogant and entitled". What is arrogant and entitled is expecting the world to change to suit you rather than you changing yourself to suit it.
EVE is not what you want it to be. It cannot be. Asking CCP to make it into something you'd like more when you already have options you like such as Elite (where as people like me have much more limited options, most of the gaming world is to panzy for us) is the definition of greed. That's not what's happening here though. You're saying that CCP should not develop WiS even if that's their vision of EVE and even if that would bring in more players and thus more revenue because you don't like it. That's entitlement whatever way you swing it.
And yes, it certainly can be something I'd like more. It's taken some steps in that direction already. The thing is what you are arguing against is what CCP have stated is their future vision for EVE, and yet somehow I'm terrible for supporting that.
Jenn aSide wrote:Those things are about space ships or space, thus they are relevant. I do't care about them either, but they meet the "focuses on spaceships" requirement.
Things with legs sitting on furniture do not. They aren't relevant at all. Mot of us will never see them and I don't care for their existence, therefore to me CCP have wasted their dev time making them when they could instead have been improving gameplay mechanics or releasing new ship types. Things like "making floating space rocks prettier" is no different from "making floating space buildings prettier".
Jenn aSide wrote:Your taste is wrong. You are literally the Vegan sitting in a steak house complaining. CCP used to be wrong as well, which is why they had so many failures. Now CCP is doing it right for the most part (focusing on what they know how to do). I know that burns y'all unrealistic "EVe could be great if" types, but there it is.
My 'side' is winning, and has won the war, CCP has no plans for this crap. We're posting in this thread to remind CCP that your side was defeated (not by us, by reality....) for a damn good reason, so CCP does not repeat the failures of the past. Because doing so would put this game we play at real risk. No, I'm the guy in the steak house eating steak and saying "If you did ribs too, that would be awesome". You seem to have this thing where you like to pretend that If I'm not like you and I don't love everything in EVE that I must be the complete opposite and unfit to play the game.
There are no "sides" in this mate, there's just people with their opinions and CCP making decisions. Like how they ruled out MT and yet have MT, just because it's not happening right now doesn't mean it never will. What puts this game at risk is toxic members of the community like you who feel they are entitled to have a say over who else is and isn't allowed to express their opinions.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
478
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:02:53 -
[1041] - Quote
Quote:My 'side' is winning, and has won the war, That does not mean you are fighting on the right side.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2348
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:09:16 -
[1042] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Misconceptions here:
1 that CCP allocated resources from EvE to WIS depriving EvE of resources.
2 that a poor implementation on an idea means the idea was bad.
3 that the "majority of players didn't want WIS"
While you may be right on items 2 and 3, item 1 is not a misconception, CCP blew at least 18 months of development time on WIS which would have been far better spent to fix what was broken in the base game of FIS. People wanted the WIS they had been promised, not what was delivered. Perhaps however that's dependent on 1 whether CCP allocated additional resources 2 whether those resources would hav been diverted to dust instead of WIS
My experience with project management would suggest it's likely additional resources were acquired to work on WIS and had WIS not been on the agenda those resources likely would not have been obtained in the first place. CCP might operate differently so I might be wrong.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Freya Sertan
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
611
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:12:56 -
[1043] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:My experience with project management would suggest it's likely additional resources were acquired to work on WIS and had WIS not been on the agenda those resources likely would not have been obtained in the first place. CCP might operate differently so I might be wrong.
*snort* Jesus, man. You're making yourself out to be a bigger polymath than da Vinci was. You're incredible. Please, never leave EvE; New Eden would be such a darker place without your special brand of content.
New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.
Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11997
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:14:33 -
[1044] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: What puts this game at risk is toxic members of the community like you who feel they are entitled to have a say over who else is and isn't allowed to express their opinions.
The rest is the standard Lucas kell BS. I'm familiar with it, I see it all the time, I call it "I don't get it because I don't want to get it" routine. It's wrong, but you have a right to be wrong.
But the above is just stupid. Telling someone what they believe and how they do things is wrong isn't the same thing as disallowing someone to express their opinions,. Hell, how could I stop you? You WiS people can live in whatever fantasy you wish, it's not hurting anyone. You can speak freely about what you want.
So can I, and I can also demonstrate that what you want is selfish and greedy and unrealistic.
Like I said, my function here (i won't speak for others, but I think some would agree) is to remind CCP that there is support for their focusing on the meat of EVE (spaceships, space and the player driven market). I like a focused game (and meat), not one that is all over the place. CCP used to be all over the place, now they aren't
Skins and asteroids as a sideline don't hurt and is skins make some extra cash, so be it. Doing Valkyrie doesn't hurt either, it's "Ribs" to EVE's steak (WiS isn't Ribs, it's Tofu, and you can shove that non-meat soy bean crap up your Elite Spaceships exhaust hole). But We've seen what happens when CCP overextends itself.
EVE isn't the right platform for adding non-spaceship "new" stuff to, and CCP knows that now, no matter how many of the rest of you don't.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11997
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:16:12 -
[1045] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:My 'side' is winning, and has won the war, That does not mean you are fighting on the right side.
Actually it does. War doesn't determine who is right, it determines who is left
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
478
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:27:26 -
[1046] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:My 'side' is winning, and has won the war, That does not mean you are fighting on the right side. Actually it does. War doesn't determine who is right, it determines who is left And who will be leaving too. Remember that.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2139
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:30:11 -
[1047] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Lan Wang wrote: slightly off topic, they sorted that whole situation out by ceasing to release demos and now all this "early access" bull so they can get away with releasing broken games/demos that you pay for. its a sad state these days
:Warning: I can rant for hours about this :Warning: I think as gamers, we have let games developers get away with far too much crap. The genie is well out the bottle now, but Microtransactions, DLC (when has it even been right to release 80% of a game and demand more money for the rest!), paid for early-access, Beta releases, Alpha releases (and no, there is no such thing as a pre-Alpha - Star Citizen fans, show some goddamn self-respect and demand a game!) is all rubbish and cross the whole spectrum between cheeky to outright scamming. Bring back the days of paying your money, and getting a finished game :Rage: I am still wondering why they keep adding new clothes and you can't actually stand around in a group and look at each other.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Borascus
649
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:53:09 -
[1048] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It was simply stopped at one room because crybabies cried until they stopped developing it.
quick to forget, quicker to repeat;
You see, there was a furtherance beyond the single room
What we end up seeing in the comments section of that video, that was delivered as a presentation outside of fanfest and forum, is further development of a project element.
When you measure the comments in that youtube video;
It was dead then too. For 2 guys.
As someone who is qualified in Psychology, EVE has been a melting pot of suggestion, with many many forgotten failures, and many many floggings of the dead horse.
World of Darkness should have proven categorically that CCP hf. develops what CCP hf. wants to develop. There really has been demand for WiS, and throughout the demands there have always been 'died last year' posts, most of which were wrong.
If CCP hf. aren't tempted by people saying 'every other game does it, it will bring new players who will also leave the station, it's practical, it would be fun,..... etc' that's CCP hf.'s prerogative.
Over time, that leads to the same playerbase having opinions generated by face-to-face marketing (like the linked video) which is harmful. Future newbros also read about past development cycles and opportunity.
Our opinion is we would like for CCP hf. to continue working on this. There is another group that says WiS should remain dead.
Eventually; the second group will be the only players, having lost the 1st group and the new players that would have been attracted to an avatar based element.
That is a diminishing player base / market.
With a door you do not need to go through in the Captain's quarters, you will have the same opportunity as people that do not want to gain standings: skip that part. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6452
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 18:04:04 -
[1049] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The rest is the standard Lucas kell BS. I accept your concession of defeat
Jenn aSide wrote:But the above is just stupid. Telling someone what they believe and how they do things is wrong isn't the same thing as disallowing someone to express their opinions,. Which would be fine if that's wh you did. Buy you don't. You attack people, not their arguments, you talk down to them and you act like what they say is objectively wrong because it doesn't match your opinion. You then proceed down your "THIS IS MY EVE GET OUT" route when that doesn't work. Your aim is to get them to simply give up. What annoys you is that it doesn't work on me because what some random thinks about me personally on the internet is irrelevant.
Jenn aSide wrote:I like a focused game (and meat), not one that is all over the place. CCP used to be all over the place, now they aren't So you'll support me if I rase an idea to get rid of lowsec and wormhole space and focus on just safety in highsec and just ownership in null? That way everything is nice and focused.
Jenn aSide wrote:Skins and asteroids as a sideline don't hurt and is skins make some extra cash, so be it. I don;t believe having extra asteroid particles really brought in much income. It probably just caused a few more people to drop their graphics settings a bit.
Jenn aSide wrote:Doing Valkyrie doesn't hurt either, it's "Ribs" to EVE's steak (WiS isn't Ribs, it's Tofu, and you can shove that non-meat soy bean crap up your Elite Spaceships exhaust hole). But We've seen what happens when CCP overextends itself. Whatever you want to pretend it is, the effect is the same. Bringing in rib eaters or tofu eaters alongside steak eaters brings in more total people. Hell, some of the tofu eaters might even bring along new steak eaters.
Much like skins, I have no problem with CCP adding things that don't directly impact me but aid them in making more income so that the game can continue to improve. At some point down the line they will have to embrace the next generation of gamers or they will cease to exist.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
12004
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 18:15:24 -
[1050] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Which would be fine if that's wh you did. Buy you don't. You attack people, not their arguments
You're supposedly a grown man, you ARE your arguments. Your arguments are wrong, and they come from your core beliefs...which are also wrong btw.
Quote:you talk down to them and you act like what they say is objectively wrong because it doesn't match your opinion. You then proceed down your "THIS IS MY EVE GET OUT" route when that doesn't work. Your aim is to get them to simply give up. What annoys you is that it doesn't work on me because what some random thinks about me personally on the internet is irrelevant.
If you dind't care, you wouldn't have mentioned it. I've said this before and i won't belabor the point beyond saying this: you won't ever be able to admit it, but you know my criticism of you is correct, and you've signaled that with your own posts.
Things aren't right or wrong because of what i want, they are right or wrong because they are right or wrong ie base don their own merits and history. The reason you can't see that is because you have a personal 'culture' of spinning things to match your core belief (instead of matching your core belief to the reality, no matter whether you agree with it or not). In other words, you're a natural politician, I just happen to despise most politicians.
Lastly, I don't care whether you get out or not...though to use your term, it would be nice lol. But that isn't going to stop my general opposition to your type (in game, and in life in gneral), the type willing to see a good thing that works ruined because of an unrealistic and greedy belief in 'what could be'.
I'll leave off here, as I understand that this isn't a difference of opinion but a difference of nature. Your nature is wrong |
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embrel
BamBam Inc.
250
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 18:27:04 -
[1051] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:the type willing to see a good thing that works ruined because of an unrealistic and greedy belief in 'what could be'.
sounds quite conservative.
why develop jets when we have propellers that work perfectly fine?
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
12004
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 18:30:00 -
[1052] - Quote
embrel wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:the type willing to see a good thing that works ruined because of an unrealistic and greedy belief in 'what could be'.
sounds quite conservative. why develop jets when we have propellers that work perfectly fine?
Why develop the jets when your spaceship already has warp engines?
And to keep it WiS related, why develop LEGS when you have warp engines? If you want to walk around, why not go outside lol? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6452
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 18:48:55 -
[1053] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You're supposedly a grown man, you ARE your arguments. Your arguments are wrong, and they come from your core beliefs...which are also wrong btw. Lol, my arguments are right to me, you just disagree with them. That doesn't make them wrong. And that's not where I mean you attack the person, I mean when you start on directly insulting people which on most occasions you do.
Jenn aSide wrote:If you dind't care, you wouldn't have mentioned it. Classic. I mentioned it in an attempt to get you back on topic, but it seems you've decided against that.
Jenn aSide wrote:Things aren't right or wrong because of what i want, they are right or wrong because they are right or wrong ie based on their own merits and history. The reason you can't see that is because you have a personal 'culture' of spinning things to match your core belief (instead of matching your core belief to the reality, no matter whether you agree with it or not). In other words, you're a natural politician, I just happen to despise most politicians. Yes, they are right and wrong based on their merits. Wrong is having an entire development team focussed on one feature for a long period of time. CCP learned that and now run shorter development cycles. You're extrapolating that to mean "Wrong is WiS" which it isn't. The existence and length of this thread and countless others on the subject shows that there's a real desire to see WiS continue. The fact that CCP haven't dropped the CQ out is a clear sign they aren't dropping the tech from the engine.
Jenn aSide wrote:Lastly, I don't care whether you get out or not...though to use your term, it would be nice lol. But that isn't going to stop my general opposition to your type (in game, and in life in gneral), the type willing to see a good thing that works ruined because of an unrealistic and greedy belief in 'what could be'. You don't even know what my type is. You know literally nothing about me. You've got your own ideas based on what you've made up thinking you are reading between the lines. You've stated before that you consider me a SJW for example, yet if you were to suggest that to anyone that actually knows me they'd laugh in your face. I don't have a general opposition to "people like you", I take each situation as it comes and I don't presume to know what people are like based on limited views from their forum posts.
And I don;t want a good thing ruined. I just see no problem with one good thing being added to another good thing to attract a more varied playerbase. You would seemingly be happy to see EVE restricted to it's current dwindling playerbase until it ceases to exist.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1226
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 18:54:49 -
[1054] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:My 'side' is winning, and has won the war, That does not mean you are fighting on the right side. Actually it does. War doesn't determine who is right, it determines who is left And who will be leaving too. Remember that.
However, you have to bear in mind that arguement cuts both ways. As much as your convinced that failing to move in this direction will kill EvE, others of us are convinced that it wont survive another attempt at something that very near killed it last time. You can't call Jenn out as "threatening the life of the game" when in his eyes thats exactly what you and Lucas are doing. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
250
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 19:20:18 -
[1055] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:embrel wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:the type willing to see a good thing that works ruined because of an unrealistic and greedy belief in 'what could be'.
sounds quite conservative. why develop jets when we have propellers that work perfectly fine? If you want to walk around, why not go outside lol?
because the door is closed, of course... |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
12005
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 19:21:18 -
[1056] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:My 'side' is winning, and has won the war, That does not mean you are fighting on the right side. Actually it does. War doesn't determine who is right, it determines who is left And who will be leaving too. Remember that. However, you have to bear in mind that arguement cuts both ways. As much as your convinced that failing to move in this direction will kill EvE, others of us are convinced that it wont survive another attempt at something that very near killed it last time. You can't call Jenn out as "threatening the life of the game" when in his eyes thats exactly what you and Lucas are doing.
Well said as usual.
To believe as they do, you have to ignore history. I'm not trying to be mean to the wonderful people at CCP when I say that almost EVERYTHING they've done that isn't spaceships has failed or fizzled, I'm simply stating an observable fact. CCP has had 2 successes, the Danger Game and EVE. WoD was cancelled , DUST has been lack luster, Legion isn't even mentioned and many in-EVE projects that deviated from the Core of EVE (Incarna including EVA exploration, Atmospheric Flight, Planetary interaction, the EVE Dust link) failed or fizzled.
But somehow these people believe that the key to success in this case is to do more and more of what failed? This is why I mention the word greed, because these people are so greedy for a certain entertainment experience that they cannot see the dangers inherent in what they are trying to manipulate CCP into reconsidering. CCP stopped doing this WiS stuff for good reasons.
It's irresponsible. If CCP does that and it's a big success against all odds, that's great , but unlikely. If it (a renewed push to tack on Avatar gameplay to this old game) fails and drags the company down, it's not Lucas Kell looking for another job. Side note, this is why in real life I tend to not suggest things about what other people should do, even if they ask, at least without the qualifier "This is why I would do, you ain't me though" |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
12005
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 19:22:06 -
[1057] - Quote
embrel wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:embrel wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:the type willing to see a good thing that works ruined because of an unrealistic and greedy belief in 'what could be'.
sounds quite conservative. why develop jets when we have propellers that work perfectly fine? If you want to walk around, why not go outside lol? because the door is closed, of course...
If you are being held prisoner in real life, get off the computer and dial 911 or whatever you country calls it
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2139
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 19:32:25 -
[1058] - Quote
No need to be melodramatic. CCP just needs some devs that are good at making interiors to work on the station. It doesn't have to be announced, there can be all the usual song and dance about the usual developments until one day, "Surprise! We made stuff!"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6452
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 20:51:10 -
[1059] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:To believe as they do, you have to ignore history. And to believe as you do you have to ignore the fact that CCP have changed their entire approach. With the new development processes there's no reason to assume that working towards WiS wouldn't be achievable, especially when you consider the only reason it didn't get off the ground last time was angry screaming overly entitled children.
I get it though. Other viewpoints aren't valid and what CCP should do is cater to just people like you, which they have done for years while their sub numbers continue to drop.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Borascus
649
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 21:10:34 -
[1060] - Quote
We're all here talking about what CCP hf. should do in relation to something they tabled as something they were doing.
It's their call, we're saying we want it.
Others are saying they own the direction CCP hf. wants to go, and any deviation will be the end, it wont be. If the content was possible with the steep climb to a VR game in Valkyrie, they'd work on two things at once.
We're still saying we want it, and others are still saying CCP wont.
CCP hf. should avoid the peaceful slumber and resting on laurels approach to dedication and divert some of their excess capital towards new features (drifter incursions are a new feature - one that was discussed openly amongst players and devs alike some time ago).
Hell, I'll probably let my subscription lapse resub and lapse again. When/If WiS is released a great number of people will rejoin to see what it's like. New players that are put off from EVE will also subscribe to see what it is like.
Telling us that it is not worth CCP hf attracting new players is like telling Starbucks to limit their number of customers per day, because coffee is special.
The more people CCP hf. can get into the game the more people there are to form coalitions, corps, fleets, sales on the ingame markets - Health! |
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 21:16:18 -
[1061] - Quote
I actually stood in the captains cabin on one occassion, then I went back to my ship. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
530
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 21:16:41 -
[1062] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Misconceptions here:
1 that CCP allocated resources from EvE to WIS depriving EvE of resources.
2 that a poor implementation on an idea means the idea was bad.
3 that the "majority of players didn't want WIS"
While you may be right on items 2 and 3, item 1 is not a misconception, CCP blew at least 18 months of development time on WIS which would have been far better spent to fix what was broken in the base game of FIS. People wanted the WIS they had been promised, not what was delivered. Perhaps however that's dependent on 1 whether CCP allocated additional resources 2 whether those resources would hav been diverted to dust instead of WIS My experience with project management would suggest it's likely additional resources were acquired to work on WIS and had WIS not been on the agenda those resources likely would not have been obtained in the first place. CCP might operate differently so I might be wrong.
You do not remember the 18 months thread naught? Soon tm. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 21:22:19 -
[1063] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:To believe as they do, you have to ignore history. And to believe as you do you have to ignore the fact that CCP have changed their entire approach. With the new development processes there's no reason to assume that working towards WiS wouldn't be achievable, especially when you consider the only reason it didn't get off the ground last time was angry screaming overly entitled children. I get it though. Other viewpoints aren't valid and what CCP should do is cater to just people like you, which they have done for years while their sub numbers continue to drop.
There seems to be a lot of work still needed to be done to it. Even the character movement didn't seem that great to me.
Real question is, is it really worth the effort. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6452
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 22:00:30 -
[1064] - Quote
I imagine there would be one for each station type, of which there aren't too many. With CCPs development cycle I imagine they would make one of each race for all stations of that race, iterate upon those until they are working well, then over time create different versions for different type and owners of station (with NPC corp ownership colours and logos applied dynamically much like skins).
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 22:19:51 -
[1065] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I imagine there would be one for each station type, of which there aren't too many. With CCPs development cycle I imagine they would make one of each race for all stations of that race, iterate upon those until they are working well, then over time create different versions for different type and owners of station (with NPC corp ownership colours and logos applied dynamically much like skins).
Ok, so likely to do it in phases. Which is possible spread the cost as long as people don't get too critical of it as it would be a work in progress.
What would the stations be used for, meeting place for clones, gambling maybe, maybe a bar as well.
How many would use the stations other than sitting in ships or the captains cabin?
I think the main point is, if they put all the effort into creating the station environments would enough people actually use them. Or is it a case of, seems like a good idea but might not actually be in practice.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3880
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 22:22:00 -
[1066] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:No need to be melodramatic. CCP just needs some devs that are good at making interiors to work on the station. It doesn't have to be announced, there can be all the usual song and dance about the usual developments until one day, "Surprise! We made stuff!"
I bet they know where they can find some, even with Carbon expertise...
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13886
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 22:59:40 -
[1067] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: My experience with project management
He's added a new skill, folks. Pretty diverse education for a bar bouncer. I have three college degrees now, and I don't have anything close to all the skills he's fabricated for himself.
Do you have your PMP (prounounced pimp) certificate? Which testing center did you get it at? Did you read the PMBOK, or take a class for it?
Oh, and you're hilariously wrong. Good project management experts don't think that you can just generate development resources and personnel out of thin air, like you're claiming. Your stakeholders would have shat themselves on the spot if you proposed such a thing.
Oh, and speaking of project management. You are an excellent argument for McGregor's Theory X. Just saying.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13886
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 23:02:53 -
[1068] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote: You do not remember the 18 months thread naught? Soon tm.
Of course he doesn't remember it. He might claim to be a launch player, but he's actually an illegal character sale from a little while ago. When he first popped up, he was such a noob that he was flying shield tanked Proteus ships so he could fit more mag stabs. I am not even kidding.
He doesn't remember it because he was never there.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2139
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 23:06:58 -
[1069] - Quote
Avvy wrote:... What would the stations be used for, ...? As I said a long way back in this thread, a relatively simple addition would be inviting people into your Captain's Quarters. Sure, you won't do much but at least you can "see" each other while talking. Some visual stimulus while you wait for someone to think, speak and or type.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 23:16:23 -
[1070] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... What would the stations be used for, ...? As I said a long way back in this thread, a relatively simple addition would be inviting people into your Captain's Quarters. Sure, you won't do much but at least you can "see" each other while talking. Some visual stimulus while you wait for someone to think, speak and or type.
Now at least that is something worth considering, certainly before the rest of it.
|
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2348
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 02:00:26 -
[1071] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: My experience with project management
He's added a new skill, folks. Pretty diverse education for a bar bouncer. I have three college degrees now, and I don't have anything close to all the skills he's fabricated for himself. Do you have your PMP (prounounced pimp) certificate? Which testing center did you get it at? Did you read the PMBOK, or take a class for it? Oh, and you're hilariously wrong. Good project management experts don't think that you can just generate development resources and personnel out of thin air, like you're claiming. Your stakeholders would have shat themselves on the spot if you proposed such a thing. Oh, and speaking of project management. You are an excellent argument for McGregor's Theory X. Just saying. Everyone should be a project manager. Useful life skill. One allocates and deallocates resources as they are needed / no longer required. Moving less than ideal staff and already allocated funds from one project to another is not good management.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
533
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 03:26:10 -
[1072] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: My experience with project management
He's added a new skill, folks. Pretty diverse education for a bar bouncer. I have three college degrees now, and I don't have anything close to all the skills he's fabricated for himself. Do you have your PMP (prounounced pimp) certificate? Which testing center did you get it at? Did you read the PMBOK, or take a class for it? Oh, and you're hilariously wrong. Good project management experts don't think that you can just generate development resources and personnel out of thin air, like you're claiming. Your stakeholders would have shat themselves on the spot if you proposed such a thing. Oh, and speaking of project management. You are an excellent argument for McGregor's Theory X. Just saying. Everyone should be a project manager. Useful life skill. One allocates and deallocates resources as they are needed / no longer required. Moving less than ideal staff and already allocated funds from one project to another is not good management.
Swimming is a life skill. Project management is a career path. Managing one's personal affairs does not qualify one to call themselves a project manager any more than managing my cash on a night out on the town qualifies me to call myself an accoutant, or when I cook dinner to call myself a chef, or when I cross the road a safety and health inspector.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13890
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 03:43:57 -
[1073] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: My experience with project management
He's added a new skill, folks. Pretty diverse education for a bar bouncer. I have three college degrees now, and I don't have anything close to all the skills he's fabricated for himself. Do you have your PMP (prounounced pimp) certificate? Which testing center did you get it at? Did you read the PMBOK, or take a class for it? Oh, and you're hilariously wrong. Good project management experts don't think that you can just generate development resources and personnel out of thin air, like you're claiming. Your stakeholders would have shat themselves on the spot if you proposed such a thing. Oh, and speaking of project management. You are an excellent argument for McGregor's Theory X. Just saying. Everyone should be a project manager. Useful life skill. One allocates and deallocates resources as they are needed / no longer required. Moving less than ideal staff and already allocated funds from one project to another is not good management. Swimming is a life skill. Project management is a career path. Managing one's personal affairs does not qualify one to call themselves a project manager any more than managing my cash on a night out on the town qualifies me to call myself an accoutant, or when I cook dinner to call myself a chef, or when I cross the road a safety and health inspector.
He'll tell us next that balancing his checkbook makes him the next best thing to a CPA.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2348
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 04:11:54 -
[1074] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: My experience with project management
He's added a new skill, folks. Pretty diverse education for a bar bouncer. I have three college degrees now, and I don't have anything close to all the skills he's fabricated for himself. Do you have your PMP (prounounced pimp) certificate? Which testing center did you get it at? Did you read the PMBOK, or take a class for it? Oh, and you're hilariously wrong. Good project management experts don't think that you can just generate development resources and personnel out of thin air, like you're claiming. Your stakeholders would have shat themselves on the spot if you proposed such a thing. Oh, and speaking of project management. You are an excellent argument for McGregor's Theory X. Just saying. Everyone should be a project manager. Useful life skill. One allocates and deallocates resources as they are needed / no longer required. Moving less than ideal staff and already allocated funds from one project to another is not good management. Swimming is a life skill. Project management is a career path. Managing one's personal affairs does not qualify one to call themselves a project manager any more than managing my cash on a night out on the town qualifies me to call myself an accoutant, or when I cook dinner to call myself a chef, or when I cross the road a safety and health inspector. He'll tell us next that balancing his checkbook makes him the next best thing to a CPA. This thread is not about my personal life. Having said that my philosophy is life long learning. I am multi-skilled because I believe studying should continue throughout your life. I have advanced qualifications in IT, which of course always includes courses in project management, as well as law (which also included a course of project management - had to plan a public event including using gant, flow and PERT charts and pm software) and education quals. I'm currently studying an associate degree in Islamic studies and intend on supplementing that with sociology.
However back to the topic. It's likely CCP had ongoing development planned and budgeted and additional projects such as WIS were also planned and budgeted on a needs basis. It would have been pretty stupid to transfer developers from EvE to WIS given the two projects are completely different. Would have been much more efficient and problem proofed had they contracted additional staff as required for each stage of the development process.
Maybe that wasn't how they did it but unless you can show a official CCP post stating they moved EvE developers from scheduled EvE development, didn't replace them with other developers and used them on WIS and also used EvE allocated funds for WIS funding then you're simply making up shite.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
534
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 05:19:54 -
[1075] - Quote
Quote:As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive.
That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
534
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 05:35:18 -
[1076] - Quote
The massive feature Zulu is talking up, got downplayed just prior to incarna's release. Like many things involving CCP it became phase one. Like many others when my graphics card running temperature climbed dramatically in that little room with a locked door to nowhere, I was bitterly disappointed with work that nine teams had done over a period of 18 months. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2348
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 05:41:39 -
[1077] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Quote:As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive. That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog WIS not Incarna. Aside from WIS Incarna included updates to graphics, ships, modules, UI, drones, missions.... it's a very long list
incarna patch notes
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
534
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 05:43:16 -
[1078] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Quote:As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive. That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog WIS not Incarna. Aside from WIS Incarna included updates to graphics, ships, modules, UI, drones, missions.... it's a very long list incarna patch notes
1. Surely you are trolling. The walking in stations expansion for Eve Online was named Incarna.
Quote:Captain's Quarters
A new 3D user interface has been built to support interaction with Captain's Quarters features. The station hangar has been replaced with Captain's Quarters. Capsuleers can now, for the first time, step out of their pod and stretch their legs in their personal quarters. Please check out this dev blog by CCP Zulu for more information. Captain's Quarters include the hangar balcony, where one can enjoy a gorgeous view of one's active ship in the hangar. The main screen provides information about things happening in the EVE universe, including sovereignty changes, the Interstellar Correspondents News Feed, incursions and more - stay tuned. The Captain's Quarters have tools that will make life for the capsuleer much easier, including the agent finder, corporation recruitment, planetary interaction, character re-customization and ship fitting. A new camera system was built from the ground up to support avatar movement and various state transitions. An extensive avatar movement scheme using Natural Motion's Morpheme has been developed to control your character. This includes an eight directional movement scheme accessible via keyboard controls, click-to-move and mouse movement. Separate keyboard shortcuts for Captain's Quarters and flying-inGÇôspace, as well as a number of options for customizing the walking-in-station camera, have been added to the ESC menu.
2. How did you miss that?
3. I don't like being trolled locator agents activated. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
873
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 05:50:11 -
[1079] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: However back to the topic. It's likely CCP had ongoing development planned and budgeted and additional projects such as WIS were also planned and budgeted on a needs basis. It would have been pretty stupid to transfer developers from EvE to WIS given the two projects are completely different. Would have been much more efficient and problem proofed had they contracted additional staff as required for each stage of the development process.
Maybe that wasn't how they did it but unless you can show a official CCP post stating they moved EvE developers from scheduled EvE development, didn't replace them with other developers and used them on WIS and also used EvE allocated funds for WIS funding then you're simply making up shite.
They did both. I believe it was Zulu who was in charge at the time and gave the figure of 18 months of very sparse development of FiS in favor of WiS. Obviously this means they had most of the company working on WiS.
They also hired on new employees specifically for WiS. They also pulled developers in Atlanta off of WoD to help work on WiS. Also, I believe the underlying tech for WiS was the same as for WoD and was developed by the Atlanta team.
What exactly the rest of the Icelandic team was contributing to WiS then, I have no idea... since the engine was developed by Atlanta and 3 of the 4 CQs were said to have been completed by Atlanta... but apparently the rest of the Iceland team was too busy working on it to get around to FiS issues. A couple ships were rebalanced I think, and some other smaller things were done, but other than that, :18 months:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Depends who all is left there. Might just be White Wolf publishing people now. With the WoD MMO cancelled they don't need game devs there anymore. And you know, there was that big lay off in 2011, a bigger lay off in 2014, with at least one smaller set of lay offs in between. Plus whoever decided to quit. None of those people are going to want to have anything to do with CCP again. There seems to be a lot of butthurt, judging from that hilarious "psshhhh!" article, and a conversation I had with someone who used to work there. There are the Glassdoor reviews as well. |
Raven Pirkibo
Jameco Industries The Big Dirty
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 05:51:34 -
[1080] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:We're getting WiS and it's called Legion. It's been sneaked under everyone's noses. Huzzah
To be honest Project Legion is going to have a hell of a lot more than just walking in stations for Eve players, it will be a full FPS game in it's own right that will be the successor to Dust and part of the greater Eve universe. |
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2348
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 06:01:39 -
[1081] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Quote:As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive. That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog WIS not Incarna. Aside from WIS Incarna included updates to graphics, ships, modules, UI, drones, missions.... it's a very long list incarna patch notes 1. Surely you are trolling. The walking in stations expansion for Eve Online was named Incarna. Quote:Captain's Quarters
A new 3D user interface has been built to support interaction with Captain's Quarters features. The station hangar has been replaced with Captain's Quarters. Capsuleers can now, for the first time, step out of their pod and stretch their legs in their personal quarters. Please check out this dev blog by CCP Zulu for more information. Captain's Quarters include the hangar balcony, where one can enjoy a gorgeous view of one's active ship in the hangar. The main screen provides information about things happening in the EVE universe, including sovereignty changes, the Interstellar Correspondents News Feed, incursions and more - stay tuned. The Captain's Quarters have tools that will make life for the capsuleer much easier, including the agent finder, corporation recruitment, planetary interaction, character re-customization and ship fitting. A new camera system was built from the ground up to support avatar movement and various state transitions. An extensive avatar movement scheme using Natural Motion's Morpheme has been developed to control your character. This includes an eight directional movement scheme accessible via keyboard controls, click-to-move and mouse movement. Separate keyboard shortcuts for Captain's Quarters and flying-inGÇôspace, as well as a number of options for customizing the walking-in-station camera, have been added to the ESC menu. 2. How did you miss that? 3. I don't like being trolled locator agents activated. Read the patch notes for Incarna. WIS was a major component however there was a crapload of EvE related stuff too. Which might explain the 3 teams of EvE dev being outnumbered by loaned teams from other projects
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
535
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 06:13:00 -
[1082] - Quote
I have read those notes numerous times. There was hardly anything FIS related stuff in there.
As you are a 2013 player who is used to the 6 week development and does not have experience with the winter/summer cycles. I can see how you think there was a "crapload of EvE related stuff. You should read the patch notes for Dominion, Apocraphya etc. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3881
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 06:53:52 -
[1083] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:(...) Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Depends who all is left there. Might just be White Wolf publishing people now. With the WoD MMO cancelled they don't need game devs there anymore. And you know, there was that big lay off in 2011, a bigger lay off in 2014, with at least one smaller set of lay offs in between. Plus whoever decided to quit. None of those people are going to want to have anything to do with CCP again. There seems to be a lot of butthurt, judging from that hilarious "psshhhh!" article, and a conversation I had with someone who used to work there. There are the Glassdoor reviews as well.
But, those people still exist. My point was that CCP used to have WiS expertise onboard, fired them all, but that expertise is still around. I've always been under the impression that the Reykjavik art team opposed avatar content and did their best to sabotage it. There's the famous quote about how Atlanta finished 3 CQs in less time than it took the Rek team to release the half assed Minmatar ghetto room...
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6459
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 06:59:55 -
[1084] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Quote:As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive. That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog WIS not Incarna. Aside from WIS Incarna included updates to graphics, ships, modules, UI, drones, missions.... it's a very long list incarna patch notes 1. Surely you are trolling. The walking in stations expansion for Eve Online was named Incarna. His point is that's not all Incarna was. You guys hear Incarna and think CQ. I hear it and think No more multi JBs! Travel is ruined! Somebody working on "Incarna" was doing things that didn't involve the CQ.
Unezka Turigahl wrote:They did both. I believe it was Zulu who was in charge at the time and gave the figure of 18 months of very sparse development of FiS in favor of WiS. Obviously this means they had most of the company working on WiS.
They also hired on new employees specifically for WiS. They also pulled developers in Atlanta off of WoD to help work on WiS. Also, I believe the underlying tech for WiS was the same as for WoD and was developed by the Atlanta team.
What exactly the rest of the Icelandic team was contributing to WiS then, I have no idea... since the engine was developed by Atlanta and 3 of the 4 CQs were said to have been completed by Atlanta... but apparently the rest of the Iceland team was too busy working on it to get around to FiS issues. A couple ships were rebalanced I think, and some other smaller things were done, but other than that, :18 months: Actually, if you read the quote that Cancel Align NOW put above, the vast majority of the teams working on the CQ were from "other projects" which I'd assume to be things like WoD with only 2 of the EVE teams on it. So no, not "most of the company" at all.
Apparently you didn't notice all of the changes going in over that 18 month period, like the Tyrannis and Incursion expansions. It's like 20 patches and 2 expansions within that timeframe, yet you people seem to think that the only thing that happened was WiS.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2140
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 07:12:39 -
[1085] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:This thread is not about my personal life. Right. However, you then go ahead and feed them more ammunition. Infinity Ziona wrote:Having said that my philosophy is life long learning. Your ego / need for attention won't let it go. Consider who you are talking with; no body. A bunch of handle on the Internet. They mean something to you. They mean next to nothing to me, which is why I do not value their opinion. Try taking on some of the same.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
421
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 07:15:22 -
[1086] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Lots of stuff, but no code Still waiting for the prototype. It is easy after all. At least show us your alpha prototype.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
381
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 07:32:36 -
[1087] - Quote
Sorry if this was posted already, but I figured I'd link it here as it humors me for a number of reasons. Also, because I like seeing Soraya get burned.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=209985&find=unread |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13895
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 07:39:27 -
[1088] - Quote
I like the part where he was directly contradicted by a CCP quote from Incarna, that apparently everyone already knew about but him. They outright say that the colossal failure of Incarna had resources directly drawn from the rest of the game, which 100% contradicts his statements.
And still he doubles down and claims he was right all along. The perils of intellectual dishonesty, ladies and gentlemen.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
540
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 07:45:12 -
[1089] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:His point is that's not all Incarna was. You guys hear Incarna and think CQ. I hear it and think No more multi JBs! Travel is ruined! Somebody working on "Incarna" was doing things that didn't involve the CQ.
Apparently you didn't notice all of the changes going in over that 18 month period, like the Tyrannis and Incursion expansions. It's like 20 patches and 2 expansions within that timeframe, yet you people seem to think that the only thing that happened was WiS.
Compared to Revelations, Trinity, Empyrean Age, Apocraphya and Dominion, Tyrannis and Incarna offered very little in the way of spaceship flight. CCP warned us that that would be the case, and promised that Incarna would be fantastic. They delivered on little for FIS pilots and failed to deliver the games, meeting rooms and chance for character conflict they talked up for WIS.
You can keep talking up Tyrannis and the other "20 patches", personally I was not very impressed with Eve Gate, these forums, ingame calendar or the charcater creater (which was prep work for Incarna) etc.
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
381
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 07:48:08 -
[1090] - Quote
Wasn't really a lack of content that killed Incarna as it was a lack of content, plus breaking the game, plus internal news letter threatening to break the game further.
Really, there was a lot of emotion going on in those times but it wasn't simply because flying content was taking a small break. That was merely the pebble that summoned the avalanche. |
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6459
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 07:54:39 -
[1091] - Quote
Actually the quote said that only 2 of the 9 teams were from EVE, and specifically said "So the resource cost from EVE is very contained". You guys seem to be trying to claim that EVE halted while the entire company focused on WiS, which is wrong. It's also blindingly obvious you have some personal dislike for the guy. Why don't you take your anger/butthurt/whatever to some other thread rather than attempting to derail this one with childish attacks?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6459
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 07:57:52 -
[1092] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Compared to Revelations, Trinity, Empyrean Age, Apocraphya and Dominion, Tyrannis and Incarna offered very little in the way of spaceship flight. CCP warned us that that would be the case, and promised that Incarna would be fantastic. They delivered on little for FIS pilots and failed to deliver the games, meeting rooms and chance for character conflict they talked up for WIS.
You can keep talking up Tyrannis and the other "20 patches", personally I was not very impressed with Eve Gate, these forums, ingame calendar or the charcater creater (which was prep work for Incarna) etc. I disagree, there were heaps of features. Less than some other expansions? Sure, significantly so? No.
Effectively what you're saying here is you didn't particularly like the features they added in those expansions, therefore they didn't exist.
Bear in mind that there are less people working on EVE FiS content now than there were during Incarna because they've laid loads of them off.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
540
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 08:04:35 -
[1093] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Wasn't really a lack of content that killed Incarna as it was a lack of content, plus breaking the game, plus internal news letter threatening to break the game further.
Really, there was a lot of emotion going on in those times but it wasn't simply because flying content was taking a small break. That was merely the pebble that summoned the avalanche.
Oh definitely. I completely agree. My posts over the last page have focused solely on one aspect that Infinity Ziona claimed an unvalidated level of expertise in.
I was personally disappointed with lack of FIS, but happy to see Eve develop WIS. I felt betrayed when the actuality was so divergent from their promises. I was very frustrated that the WIS they did deliver just detracted from ease of spaceship flight. I was confused by the monacle prices. The newsletter made me bitter. Would I mind if WIS was developed? No. I'd be happy to see something new along that line. Do I trust CCP to deliver WIS in a meaningful way. No ******* way. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
540
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 08:10:52 -
[1094] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Compared to Revelations, Trinity, Empyrean Age, Apocraphya and Dominion, Tyrannis and Incarna offered very little in the way of spaceship flight. CCP warned us that that would be the case, and promised that Incarna would be fantastic. They delivered on little for FIS pilots and failed to deliver the games, meeting rooms and chance for character conflict they talked up for WIS.
You can keep talking up Tyrannis and the other "20 patches", personally I was not very impressed with Eve Gate, these forums, ingame calendar or the charcater creater (which was prep work for Incarna) etc. I disagree, there were heaps of features. Less than some other expansions? Sure, significantly so? No. Effectively what you're saying here is you didn't particularly like the features they added in those expansions, therefore they didn't exist. Bear in mind that there are less people working on EVE FiS content now than there were during Incarna because they've laid loads of them off.
Name these Tyrannis features I have overlooked.
Yes there are a lot less CCP employees now because CCP borrowed money to make WoD, Dust and WIS along with future development of Eve Online. When things went pear shaped in 2011 it was assured that a large number would be laid off. Another reason not to trust them to attempt to do more WIS stuff now.
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
894
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 09:10:02 -
[1095] - Quote
Quote:2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster. I have removed a couple off topic posts and the ones quoting them. Please stay on topic, be respectful, and not make things personal.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1229
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 09:34:18 -
[1096] - Quote
Avvy wrote: Assuming each station has its own environment.
More than a 1000 in Jita, probably more than half never ever leave the ship or cabin except to look around once.
There would be other stations empty, some with 1 or 2 people in them others with 10 or 12 other with maybe 25 -30.
Each different station would require a different internal structure.
There really would be a lot of work involved to do it properly, of course this will depend upon how much they've already done if any.
I just find it hard to see that they can justify the cost of completing it, without drastically cutting corners. By doing so end up with a substandard addition to the game.
In all likelihood, CCP probably were planning a series of generic rooms, that would have appeared in an identical configuration in every single station, if we were lucky, in four racial skins.
I recommend people look up "orbital stations" in SWTOR. Half the planets you visit have a "spaceport" on the surface, and your ship goes to a hanger there. The other half, being worlds the faction is mid-invading (for example the Imperials have a Spaceport on Balmorra, the Republic use an Orbital Station, and visa-versa on Taris), or being inhospitable (Hoth being a prime example), your ship goes to an orbital space station, and you catch a shuttle from there to the surface. These orbital stations are identical - same layout, same hanger positions, just the NPC's are occasionally moved around, and sometimes the flags, piles of crates, and pot plants are in different places. There is one exception to this, and thats for Makeb, which is the main planet on their first expansion of the game, and even then, when you look you realise it is still the same base model with a couple of extra rooms added, and a few pillars and larger furniture pieces to break up some of the larger spaces. When you play SWTOR, by about the third orbital station you have stopped paying attension to a single feature of it - it has stopped being a location of any merit, its just a couple of corridors and transition points that are delaying you getting from your ship to the important location.
That is for a game that is entirely about avatars walking around; its the main feature. And that game has probably only got ~20 or so of these orbital stations - the Kimotoro Constellation in the Forge (Jita, Perimetre, Niyabainen, New Caldari, Maurasi, etc) has twice that number of stations alone. Even if they only did one matching internal layout for all stations of the same model, with 3-4 per race (as a massive under-estimate), Pirate faction stations, Outposts, there is still far more station types in EvE than there is orbital stations in the entirety of SWTOR). To expect a higher standard from CCP for a periphery element to the game, with multiple orders of magnitude more instances of them is insanity. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6459
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 09:35:33 -
[1097] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Name these Tyrannis features I have overlooked, I acknowledged the ones that I remember, so don't effectively say otherwise for me. Planetary Interaction for example. The ore rebalance was pretty big one for me. The thing is, whether you remember changes or liked the changes is irrelevant. FiS features were still being made, even as part of Incarna itself.
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Yes there are a lot less CCP employees now because CCP borrowed money to make WoD, Dust and WIS along with future development of Eve Online. When things went pear shaped in 2011 it was assured that a large number would be laid off. Another reason not to trust them to attempt to do more WIS stuff now. WoD was in development long before Incarna. It's not all down to Incarna that their business suffered. Most of the Incarna screeching was from the overly entitled players demanding more from their free expansions and from anger against microtransactions (which amusingly are now in exactly as they wanted them to be, and yet now everyone is fine with them).
The point I was making about the teams size though is that people keep complaining that not enough people were working on EVE and yet right now there are less people working on EVE than during Incarna, and that's seemingly fine. Their development processes have changed and there's no reason to believe that if they chose to work on WiS now that they'd have any trouble working on FiS features at the same time. Personally I hope they close the lid on DUST, get Valkyrie out, then move resource from those two teams into working on WiS features. Then again I've been hoping for a long time they'll look at making mining, missioning and salvaging more involving and interesting mechanics too and that's not happened either.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Borascus
651
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 10:59:24 -
[1098] - Quote
Union Over Internet : U O I (The self entitlement crowd, you owe I)
If you were present before and after the incarna debacle, you could sense the culture that a group or groups were attempting to display to CCP hf. that their union was capable of facilitating a profound change in the revenue stream through discussion of the finer things in EVE until people didn't like them, it was reductionist, brought to a head with the GiG moment.
(Reductionist; a term usually used in relation to 'race to the bottom' concessions)
We're all in the real world, there is a lot of opportunity in EVE and outside of EVE. Groups that constantly pander for simplicity are only capable of a disruptive conclusion. The ones that pledged to keep it interesting are the only members of these groups that form fleets / corps / chat topics with a view to keeping the game interesting while you play.
They do do more than me, they have my respect.
They do have a legacy of copycats that still want simple, there is still a need for interesting content. The game has a cult following, that draws crowds. MMO players like to see development before they join so they know they wont exhaust all the content, forever.
With all that said, time is precious. I feel it would be fitting for EVE Online to develop further, they are in the Museum of Modern Art after all.
The group that were against microtransactions likely have bling fits and ship SKINs now. When microtransactions were opposed the opposition used the topic as pub ammunition to incite a response, now it's just a necessary display of wealth.
CCP hf. did well there, as the microtransaction model was being rolled out in other games at the start of the f2p rush.
Walking in stations doesn't need 50 individual layouts for all the variations of station present in game, right now there is an opportunity for just 5 - boarding the Drifter Hives.
There is an opportunity for another 20, stations on the boundary of Empire space.
There is also an opportunity to have the same layout present in each station with a different overlay, due to the proximity of the environment to the Captains quarters.
It's not necessarily 'vague is best' in station design, and the practical implementation of SKINs proves that models can display various types of design with the same underlying dimensions.
How that would compare with SW:TOR is quite simple - context, the same corridors and rooms with different skins is the bread and butter WiS feel. The situational developments like tackling a hive, or a sleeper preservation conduit, can be bespoke in line with the development cycle of lore content.
SW:TOR wiki wrote:Although BioWare has not disclosed development costs, industry leaders and financial analysts have estimated it to be between $150 million and $200 million or more, making it, at the time, the most expensive video game ever made,[9][10] though if marketing costs are included, it is eclipsed by Grand Theft Auto V, with an estimated cost of $265 million.
...
but has remained profitable
This relates to a game that was entirely avatar driven, with the majority of player time spent amongst the, reportedly, stagnant scenery.
Yes it equates to 20 Months of EVE Online revenue, and is untenable, it shouldn't cost as much as it is a limited scope, it also does not require the planet environments, the ship coding, the extra details. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2140
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 11:11:47 -
[1099] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:... Most of the Incarna screeching was from the overly entitled players demanding more from their free expansions and from anger against microtransactions (which amusingly are now in exactly as they wanted them to be, and yet now everyone is fine with them). ... I have never used the NEX store. I might at some point to sell the free AUR. My anger was over my 8800 GTX card that Incarna melted along with a lot of other people's cards without so much as a "We are terribly sorry but the TOS means we are not liable and we can not be sure what we actually broke and would need to replace anyway. We do apologise and regret not doing deeper testing."
Then there was the whole thing where WoD developers made 3x Captain's Quarters in a fraction of the time that the EVE developers made one, so that indicates that wrong skill sets were applied to the job.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Scarlett Anstian
An My BLUE Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 11:15:58 -
[1100] - Quote
We have WiS already but we are limited to our captains quarters. So why anyone would be against working on it further is beyond me because its not going anywhere.
If you are against WiS you have already lost so why not help make suggestions to improve the crap we have currently. |
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Borascus
651
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:16:55 -
[1101] - Quote
The element discussed in this video as well; with respect to the player(s) / ship / ships boarding the environment is covered with the new structure shields for structures like citadels. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2349
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 11:24:59 -
[1102] - Quote
If we count the CQ related headings vs Non CQ headings in Incarna patch notes we find:
2 CQ (granted CQ is a big one) 37 Non CQ
Nuff Said :)
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:35:00 -
[1103] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote:We have WiS already but we are limited to our captains quarters. So why anyone would be against working on it further is beyond me because its not going anywhere.
If you are against WiS you have already lost so why not help make suggestions to improve the crap we have currently.
Personally I'm not against it or for it.
If it ended up as a substandard addition I could just avoid it, so that in itself wouldn't be much of an issue.
For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required.
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Borascus
651
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:50:05 -
[1104] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:If we count the CQ related headings vs Non CQ headings in Incarna patch notes we find:
2 CQ (granted CQ is a big one) 37 Non CQ
Nuff Said :)
That signature of yours made me smile, the survivors of the incarna debate being comfortable, then the incursion runners... |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39438
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:51:20 -
[1105] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote:We have WiS already but we are limited to our captains quarters. So why anyone would be against working on it further is beyond me because its not going anywhere.
If you are against WiS you have already lost so why not help make suggestions to improve the crap we have currently. I can only give my perspective on that, but I'm one of those that doesn't currently see benefit to further development of WiS.
My basic reason is that I haven't personally seen any suggestion for additions to WiS that provide any new meaningful gameplay that we can't already access from our ships.
From the existing CQ I can access my inventory, the fitting window, contracts, the market, mission agents, PI, Corporation, etc. using the UI of the CQ. However, the NEOCOM is still right there and provides quicker access to all of those things.
So aside from the one time, 'oh that's cool' immersion factor, the rest of the time the CQ interface just gets in the way and makes things slower compared to remaining in my ship/pod and accessing all of those things via the NEOCOM.
Some people might get a great kick out of sitting in a bar having a drink.
But for me, aside from just doing it once, there's no meaningful new gameplay in "Scipio sits down and has a drink" sort of additions. They are fluff with no value to the things I play the game for.
Great if others would find meaningful ways to use them. If they want to push for additional WiS features, I'm not going to argue against that, but neither am I going to argue to support it. Until something meaningful is proposed that we can't do from our ships, I'm totally agnostic to any additional WiS features.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2140
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:56:06 -
[1106] - Quote
Avvy wrote:... For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required. Well to start off, it could be a far more immersive way to kill off those 3rd party gambling websites.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:58:07 -
[1107] - Quote
There is another way of looking at this.
What do most people seem to do in this game, seems to me that the number 1 pastime in this game is collecting isk.
So for stations to be used more they have to have a way for players to make isk. If players are in stations making safe isk they're not outside stations engaged in other activities. |
Scarlett Anstian
An My BLUE Alliance
49
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:59:32 -
[1108] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Scarlett Anstian wrote:We have WiS already but we are limited to our captains quarters. So why anyone would be against working on it further is beyond me because its not going anywhere.
If you are against WiS you have already lost so why not help make suggestions to improve the crap we have currently. Personally I'm not against it or for it. If it ended up as a substandard addition I could just avoid it, so that in itself wouldn't be much of an issue. For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required. I think this is the real issue most people have. We love the game CCP has made, which is why we are all here, so I'd say let's see what they can do with WiS. It might not be pretty to start off with (currently its terrible) but in the future who knows how good it could be. They are the video game developers and I think we should all start trusting them a bit more with where they want to take EVE.
Let's face it we imagine what EVE Online could be like in an ideal world it would definitely involve some level of WiS that we don't currently have. I just want to see these changes sooner rather than later. If that means we don't get 100% of the devs working on space mechanics for 6 months, so be it. The game is great already, It's not perfect but it never will be. Someone will always have something that they want 'fixing'.
This just happens to be the thing in most need of fixing |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39438
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 12:04:47 -
[1109] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required. Well to start off, it could be a far more immersive way to kill off those 3rd party gambling websites. I doubt it.
That could occur two ways:
1. In game CCP developed gambling rooms; or 2. Removal of those 3rd party options from the game all together.
If CCP were to develop in game pokers rooms, lotteries, slot machines, etc. that would immediately classify Eve as a game that " encourage or teach gambling" under the PEGI system that CCP are already part of and legally, those aspects of the game may not be suitable to play in all countries, requiring CCP to comply with pieces of legislation that they might have no clue even exist.
In relaton to removing that options from the game all together, well that doesn't seem possible. They already operate within the existing game. Adding WiS won't remove them.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39438
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:07:48 -
[1110] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote: They are the video game developers and I think we should all start trusting them a bit more with where they want to take EVE. At the moment, CCP don't appear to want to add anything further to WiS.
I hate it when I remember something CCP Seagull has said, but can't find it immediately. She said something recently that made it clear that WiS is not a current or near future development direction.
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Scarlett Anstian
An My BLUE Alliance
49
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:10:17 -
[1111] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: If CCP were to develop in game pokers rooms, lotteries, slot machines, etc. that would immediately classify Eve as a game that " encourage or teach gambling" under the PEGI system that CCP are already part of and legally, those aspects of the game may not be suitable to play in all countries, requiring CCP to comply with pieces of legislation that they might have no clue even exist.
In relaton to removing that options from the game all together, well that doesn't seem possible. They already operate within the existing game. Adding WiS won't remove them.
It may not say it but EVE Online is a game where gambling is prominent, risk vs reward for any activity in EVE is a gamble. Buying something in Jita is a gamble, fleeting up with that random stranger a gamble, waiting for your drones to return whilst someone is warping in to tackle you is a gamble.
People spend a lot of money in this game and then see it destroyed or stolen. Is this not a game about gambling? To me it kinda is |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39438
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:16:02 -
[1112] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote:Is this not a game about gambling? To me it kinda is To you it kinda might be.
That's different to a legal classification, which do not currently apply to Eve.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6460
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:52:04 -
[1113] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:... Most of the Incarna screeching was from the overly entitled players demanding more from their free expansions and from anger against microtransactions (which amusingly are now in exactly as they wanted them to be, and yet now everyone is fine with them). ... I have never used the NEX store. I might at some point to sell the free AUR. My anger was over my 8800 GTX card that Incarna melted along with a lot of other people's cards without so much as a "We are terribly sorry but the TOS means we are not liable and we can not be sure what we actually broke and would need to replace anyway. We do apologise and regret not doing deeper testing." If you GFX card melted, it was a configuration issue your end. No matter what load it gets put under, a GFX card should never melt (or burn out). At worst your PC should shut off when the temperature reaches critical (way below the temperature that causes physical damage).
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Then there was the whole thing where WoD developers made 3x Captain's Quarters in a fraction of the time that the EVE developers made one, so that indicates that wrong skill sets were applied to the job. The first one is going to take longer though, since when that was created there was no framework to build on. The whole engine behind it needs to be built. To build the 3 further ones it's just models and textures. Besides, the WoD team was involved in the whole process. As shown by the quote on a previous page, only 2 of the 9 teams involved in WiS were EVE teams.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11847
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:57:01 -
[1114] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote: Is this not a game about gambling? To me it kinda is Nope, it's a game of skill. Lady luck and her RNG is a killer.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6460
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:57:33 -
[1115] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:But for me, aside from just doing it once, there's no meaningful new gameplay in "Scipio sits down and has a drink" sort of additions. They are fluff with no value to the things I play the game for. For me there's no meaningful gameplay in "this asteroid belt is surrounded by tiny rocks" or "these ships now look shinier and can have different colours", so perhaps they should just cease all graphical updates too then?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6460
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Posted - 2015.07.31 13:02:28 -
[1116] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required. Well to start off, it could be a far more immersive way to kill off those 3rd party gambling websites. I doubt it. That could occur two ways: 1. In game CCP developed gambling rooms; or 2. Removal of those 3rd party options from the game all together. If CCP were to develop in game pokers rooms, lotteries, slot machines, etc. that would immediately classify Eve as a game that " encourage or teach gambling" under the PEGI system that CCP are already part of and legally, those aspects of the game may not be suitable to play in all countries, requiring CCP to comply with pieces of legislation that they might have no clue even exist. In relation to removing that options from the game all together, well that doesn't seem possible. They already operate within the existing game. Adding WiS won't remove them. Actually, by adding the gambling classification on PEGI, it only means the game can't be lower than a 12, which it already is. It wouldn't require any legislation unless you were able to gamble for real money.
Technically speaking they should already have that classification though, as you engage in gambling through third party sites and through the Jita spammers. Sure, those are in almost every case scams, but it's still a promotion of gambling occurring within the game and being specifically allowed by the developers.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2141
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:10:37 -
[1117] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required. Well to start off, it could be a far more immersive way to kill off those 3rd party gambling websites. I doubt it.That could occur two ways: 1. In game CCP developed gambling rooms; or .... CCP can do it via a range of games, Monopoly, Go, Chess, gambling, et cetera. Just have it as a fact that they have more other games than gambling ones and the games are player run.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1231
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 14:20:47 -
[1118] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote:They are the video game developers and I think we should all start trusting them a bit more with where they want to take EVE.
And CCP have decided not to advance WiS beyond what we already have. That being the case perhaps you should follow your own advice. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39439
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 14:27:20 -
[1119] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required. Well to start off, it could be a far more immersive way to kill off those 3rd party gambling websites. I doubt it. That could occur two ways: 1. In game CCP developed gambling rooms; or 2. Removal of those 3rd party options from the game all together. If CCP were to develop in game pokers rooms, lotteries, slot machines, etc. that would immediately classify Eve as a game that " encourage or teach gambling" under the PEGI system that CCP are already part of and legally, those aspects of the game may not be suitable to play in all countries, requiring CCP to comply with pieces of legislation that they might have no clue even exist. In relation to removing that options from the game all together, well that doesn't seem possible. They already operate within the existing game. Adding WiS won't remove them. Actually, by adding the gambling classification on PEGI, it only means the game can't be lower than a 12, which it already is. It wouldn't require any legislation unless you were able to gamble for real money. Technically speaking they should already have that classification though, as you engage in gambling through third party sites and through the Jita spammers. Sure, those are in almost every case scams, but it's still a promotion of gambling occurring within the game and being specifically allowed by the developers. I didn't write that it required legislation.
I wrote that adding gambling, directly CCP developed means they could be exposed to legislation that they are not even aware of, but must comply with.
If you can 100% say that you understand all gaming legislation in place in every country Eve is played, then fair enough. If you can't though, then it's lucky that CCP have to take into account a whole range of issues when they develop features for the game and that includes considering the legal aspects.
For example, in the Territory I live in, if CCP were to include poker or slot machines or lotteries or other similar features even with ISK inside Eve, the game would be classified for 18+only because of the ability to exchange cash for ISK, even though it can't go the other way. The game would have to be licenced by the gaming commission.
CCP couldn't be expected to know that, yet if a parent or someone else reported it, they would be investigated for a breach of the law.
I don't see why CCP would want to expose themselves to those sorts of risk and restrictions, let alone the do-gooders and perpetual complainers if 12 y/o kids were beIng taught by the game how to gamble. That just doesn't seem worth it to me.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1311
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:29:10 -
[1120] - Quote
why would ccp want to create gambling when 3rd parties do it for them and ccp dont have to put up with the sh!t that iwantisk deals with
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39439
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:36:58 -
[1121] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:... so perhaps they should just cease all graphical updates too then? If you think they should then great for you.
Not what I think, but each to their own.
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Scarlett Anstian
An My BLUE Alliance
54
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:38:20 -
[1122] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Scarlett Anstian wrote:They are the video game developers and I think we should all start trusting them a bit more with where they want to take EVE.
And CCP have decided not to advance WiS beyond what we already have. That being the case perhaps you should follow your own advice. Actually they wanted to but there was such a **** storm from veteran players that they decided to bow under the pressure and work on more spaceships.
If they didnt want to why did they make it in the first place? >.> durrrr |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2141
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:38:32 -
[1123] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:... For example, in the Territory I live in, if CCP were to include poker or slot machines or lotteries or other similar features even with ISK inside Eve, the game would be classified for 18+only because of the ability to exchange cash for ISK, even though it can't go the other way. The game would have to be licenced by the gaming commission. .... Not the most difficult bit of code to disable your ability to gamble based on your location.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39439
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 14:46:54 -
[1124] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:... For example, in the Territory I live in, if CCP were to include poker or slot machines or lotteries or other similar features even with ISK inside Eve, the game would be classified for 18+only because of the ability to exchange cash for ISK, even though it can't go the other way. The game would have to be licenced by the gaming commission. .... Not the most difficult bit of code to disable your ability to gamble based on your location. Really?
Break it down for me so that Eve is compliant and remains compliant with changing legislation Workdwide associated with gambling.
If it's so easy, how do you achieve Worldwide compliance continuously?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6463
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:49:16 -
[1125] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:If you can 100% say that you understand all gaming legislation in place in every country Eve is played, then fair enough. If you can't though, then it's lucky that CCP have to take into account a whole range of issues when they develop features for the game and that includes considering the legal aspects. Obviously I can't say that, but I can say that I know of no game that has had to deal with legislation over purely in-game gambling systems with no real money gambling. As PEGI is an opt-in classification system, there's no reason to believe they would have to do anything more based on that classification changing, doubly so because the game already has significant elements of gambling within it.
Scipio Artelius wrote:For example, in the Territory I live in, if CCP were to include poker or slot machines or lotteries or other similar features even with ISK inside Eve, the game would be classified for 18+only because of the ability to exchange cash for ISK, even though it can't go the other way. The game would have to be licenced by the gaming commission. What territory would that be? The game should already be 18+ then because you can buy PLEX, trade it for ISK and pay it straight into the BIG lottery. I don't believe you are understanding that legislation correctly as it would make a huge number of games require 18+ certification and licensing. Generally that's only required if you can gamble cash for cash (or transfer them both ways through tokens to gamble with).
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39439
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:59:51 -
[1126] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:If you can 100% say that you understand all gaming legislation in place in every country Eve is played, then fair enough. If you can't though, then it's lucky that CCP have to take into account a whole range of issues when they develop features for the game and that includes considering the legal aspects. Obviously I can't say that, but I can say that I know of no game that has had to deal with legislation over purely in-game gambling systems with no real money gambling. As PEGI is an opt-in classification system, there's no reason to believe they would have to do anything more based on that classification changing, doubly so because the game already has significant elements of gambling within it. Scipio Artelius wrote:For example, in the Territory I live in, if CCP were to include poker or slot machines or lotteries or other similar features even with ISK inside Eve, the game would be classified for 18+only because of the ability to exchange cash for ISK, even though it can't go the other way. The game would have to be licenced by the gaming commission. What territory would that be? The game should already be 18+ then because you can buy PLEX, trade it for ISK and pay it straight into the BIG lottery. I don't believe you are understanding that legislation correctly as it would make a huge number of games require 18+ certification and licensing. Generally that's only required if you can gamble cash for cash (or transfer them both ways through tokens to gamble with). Australian Capital Territory and yes I'm understanding the legislation correctly. Whether you want to believe that or not.
CCP don't directly offer gambling in the game, nor do they offer it outside the game. 3rd parties do. So the risk isn't with CCP unless they directly offer it as mentioned as a possibility for WiS by Jenshae above. But the moment CCP decide to develop gambling options as features of Eve, then they would be accepting the responsibility to comply.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1312
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 15:02:26 -
[1127] - Quote
thing that bother me is everyone wants something which is already available but they seem to want it to a slow and more inconvenient way
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
12016
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:16:27 -
[1128] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:thing that bother me is everyone wants something which is already available but they seem to want it to a slow and more inconvenient way
But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS!
It works in real life too, instead of driving my car for 10 minutes to go the 8 miles to work, I immerse myself by getting out the old horse and buggy and taking 14 days to make the same trip lol. Can't wait till CCP gives us real WiS so I can watch people walk to talk to their agent while I click a single button to accomplish the same goal and make more isk per hour
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2141
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:17:49 -
[1129] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:... If it's so easy, how do you achieve Worldwide compliance continuously? Back bone IP addresses are static.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39439
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:24:12 -
[1130] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:... If it's so easy, how do you achieve Worldwide compliance continuously? Back bone IP addresses are static. That doesn't break it down. How does CCP keep track of which places it can be switched on for and which it can't?
You can block an IP from an aspect of the game, but how are you going to track which ones?
I keep track of legislative changes (in a completely different subject area, not gambling related) regionally to help keep the relevant countries compliant with treaty obligations. It's a nightmare just on a regional level of 34 countries, let alone Worldwide.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
480
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 15:40:08 -
[1131] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS!
Why we mine when we can have minerals from the market?
WIS should bring oportunities to use legs, to bring more content in EVE market also along with quarters to walk in. Else it woud be just another CQ room. That we have already.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1316
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:50:27 -
[1132] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS!
Why we mine when we can have minerals from the market? WIS should bring oportunities to use legs, to bring more content in EVE market also along with quarters to walk in. Else it woud be just another CQ room. That we have already.
well if nobody mined then there would be none on the market lol
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6463
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:56:09 -
[1133] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Australian Capital Territory and yes I'm understanding the legislation correctly. Whether you want to believe that or not. I can't find any mention anywhere of gambling for virtual currency being disallowed. The only references I can find are when it constitutes real money gambling, such as second life.
Scipio Artelius wrote:CCP don't directly offer gambling in the game, nor do they offer it outside the game. 3rd parties do. So the risk isn't with CCP unless they directly offer it as mentioned as a possibility for WiS by Jenshae above. But the moment CCP decide to develop gambling options as features of Eve, then they would be accepting the responsibility to comply. It's irrelevant how it's offered up, they actively allow it. They've even partnered with some of the 3rd party gambling corps for official events.
Scipio Artelius wrote:While we can both see that it is all in game currency, so might seem just the same as any other free online games and apps, the law isn't always so straight forward. The ability to purchase PLEX for cash, sell that for ISK and then gamble exposes problem gamblers to the potential of substantial real cash loss in game. Problem gambling has had a significant focus from the community in Australia over the last few years and being the nanny State we are, legislation to protect people from themselves has been implemented in recent years. They already are at risk. They could buy 1000 plex, convert it all to isk and throw it all into iwantisk. There's no reason that wouldn't cause as much grief for CCP as a system the built themselves. In fact a system they built themselves would more easily be able to handle limits on the amount you can put in.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6463
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:06:13 -
[1134] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It works in real life too, instead of driving my car for 10 minutes to go the 8 miles to work, I immerse myself by getting out the old horse and buggy and taking 14 days to make the same trip lol. Can't wait till CCP gives us real WiS so I can watch people walk to talk to their agent while I click a single button to accomplish the same goal and make more isk per hour Instead of going to the shop and just buying some fish to take home and eat tomorrow, I'm going to go to the shop, buy some fish and worms, go to a pier, spend 8 hours fishing and catch some fish to take home and eat. Sometimes it can be fun to take your time.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2141
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:08:53 -
[1135] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:... If it's so easy, how do you achieve Worldwide compliance continuously? Back bone IP addresses are static. You can block an IP from an aspect of the game, but how are you going to track which ones? I thought you would be able to see it easily enough but I will give a basic run down (there are work arounds for this basic one, however, it would probably be sufficient measures for rating purposes) - Table of states / countries that have a problem with gambling. - Backbone IP address list for those places. - Tracert. - Compare results. - If they are using a problem IP for routing then turn off the gambling games.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39439
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:10:40 -
[1136] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Australian Capital Territory and yes I'm understanding the legislation correctly. Whether you want to believe that or not. I can't find any mention anywhere of gambling for virtual currency being disallowed. The only references I can find are when it constitutes real money gambling, such as second life. Scipio Artelius wrote:CCP don't directly offer gambling in the game, nor do they offer it outside the game. 3rd parties do. So the risk isn't with CCP unless they directly offer it as mentioned as a possibility for WiS by Jenshae above. But the moment CCP decide to develop gambling options as features of Eve, then they would be accepting the responsibility to comply. It's irrelevant how it's offered up, they actively allow it. They've even partnered with some of the 3rd party gambling corps for official events. Scipio Artelius wrote:While we can both see that it is all in game currency, so might seem just the same as any other free online games and apps, the law isn't always so straight forward. The ability to purchase PLEX for cash, sell that for ISK and then gamble exposes problem gamblers to the potential of substantial real cash loss in game. Problem gambling has had a significant focus from the community in Australia over the last few years and being the nanny State we are, legislation to protect people from themselves has been implemented in recent years. They already are at risk. They could buy 1000 plex, convert it all to isk and throw it all into iwantisk. There's no reason that wouldn't cause as much grief for CCP as a system the built themselves. In fact a system they built themselves would more easily be able to handle limits on the amount you can put in. That you can't find the relevant legislation is exactly the sort of problem that CCP would face.
You can argue all you want that it's all the same. We are both space lawyering here and not from any solid foundation to do so. What both of us are talking about are based on our layman views. Trying to suggest anything more is stupid.
I know the things I am aware of in relation to my country, but I'm not a lawyer and I certainly don't know the finer details of how responsibility for different aspects falls under the law. Until something is actually tested in a court then any position is just opinion.
So arguing this is just stupid. It's not as simple as CCP could replace all 3rd party gambling by including it in WiS. it's more complex then that. How much more complex. **** knows but I certainly don't take confidence just because you say so. That would be the last thing I would ever do, since most discussions with you are just circular arguments that go nowhere.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2141
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 16:16:33 -
[1137] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:... Until something is actually tested in a court then any position is just opinion. ... Look up the specific cases and legislation. There are already games with gambling in them. Who ever put pressure on Second Life (servers in California) ruled that all gambling must be "skill" based (like poker and they have slot machines that have little tile puzzles on them) as their currency directly translates into real money. There are many gambling web sites that would have had similar problems regarding ratings.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
481
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:19:08 -
[1138] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: well if nobody mined then there would be none on the market lol
So true. Now leave and close the door using only spaceship with warp drive. Not even with legs. Hands. We have hands. Dont use them. You could make something useful.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39439
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:23:55 -
[1139] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:... Until something is actually tested in a court then any position is just opinion. ... Look up the specific cases and legislation. There are already games with gambling in them. Who ever put pressure on Second Life (servers in California) ruled that all gambling must be "skill" based (like poker and they have slot machines that have little tile puzzles on them) as their currency directly translates into real money. There are many gambling web sites that would have had similar problems regarding ratings. We're just going off topic here and for that I apologise.
I've said my piece and don't want to take the thread fetcher off topic by discussing where rulings of any court apply.
So back to WiS.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1234
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:56:54 -
[1140] - Quote
Its also worth noting the fuss over corporate logos. It's not sufficient to say a given law does or doesn't effect a given situation - what matters is whether CCP's lawyers (the people paid to ensure they comply with all relevant laws) is satisfied that everything has been complied with. Like the corp-logo internet lawyers, you can provide whatever evidence you like to claim whatever you like til your blue in the face, but if CCP's lawyers aren't 100%, its just noise, and CCP wont risk massive law-suits on say so from laymen (or even the say-so of fully qualified experts in the field - if you are not their paid fully-qualified experts in the field your word means less than nothing on the subject). |
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1234
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Posted - 2015.07.31 17:00:14 -
[1141] - Quote
Doublepost |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6463
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Posted - 2015.07.31 17:00:15 -
[1142] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:So arguing this is just stupid. It's not as simple as CCP could replace all 3rd party gambling by including it in WiS. it's more complex then that. How much more complex. **** knows but I certainly don't take confidence just because you say so. That would be the last thing I would ever do, since most discussions with you are just circular arguments that go nowhere. It is that simple. CCP already have gambling in their game. It's already possible to do and even supported by them at official events. But like how games like clicker heroes allows you to buy in game tokens then gamble them for in game items, paying for a game service then playing that game is in itself not gambling. Consider how many games you play that allow you to buy in-game currency or items then use that in games of chances within that game. Are they all 18+ with gambling licenses? Doubt it. If them adding it as part of WiS were somehow limited by legislation that nobody seems to have documented, then it would already be limited by that legislation in it's current form.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2350
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Posted - 2015.07.31 17:19:56 -
[1143] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Lan Wang wrote:thing that bother me is everyone wants something which is already available but they seem to want it to a slow and more inconvenient way But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS! It works in real life too, instead of driving my car for 10 minutes to go the 8 miles to work, I immerse myself by getting out the old horse and buggy and taking 14 days to make the same trip lol. Can't wait till CCP gives us real WiS so I can watch people walk to talk to their agent while I click a single button to accomplish the same goal and make more isk per hour Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right?
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Freya Sertan
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
614
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Posted - 2015.07.31 21:46:37 -
[1144] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Lan Wang wrote:thing that bother me is everyone wants something which is already available but they seem to want it to a slow and more inconvenient way But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS! It works in real life too, instead of driving my car for 10 minutes to go the 8 miles to work, I immerse myself by getting out the old horse and buggy and taking 14 days to make the same trip lol. Can't wait till CCP gives us real WiS so I can watch people walk to talk to their agent while I click a single button to accomplish the same goal and make more isk per hour Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right?
LOL. Because, context in situations.
You really need to get some perspective.
New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.
Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13900
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:06:41 -
[1145] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them.
And now he's a photographer too.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
545
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:25:09 -
[1146] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them.
And now he's a photographer too.
Now, now he never said that, he just said he takes photos.
Not very good ones though as one normally dedicates more than "less than a second" to composition, light metering and exposure selection.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13900
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:29:04 -
[1147] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them.
And now he's a photographer too. Now, now he never said that, he just said he takes photos. Not very good ones though as one normally dedicates more than "less than a second" to composition, light metering and exposure selection.
I once had the very great pleasure of seeing the entire works of Ansel Adams on display. Purportedly, he would stand in the same place sometimes for days at a time just to get a good shot.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2144
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Posted - 2015.08.01 01:58:44 -
[1148] - Quote
Freya Sertan wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:.... Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right? LOL. Because, context in situations. You really need to get some perspective. Quote:analogy +Ö-ênal+Öd-Æi/ noun noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification. You are welcome.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
546
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 02:22:33 -
[1149] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Freya Sertan wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:.... Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right? LOL. Because, context in situations. You really need to get some perspective. Quote:analogy +Ö-ênal+Öd-Æi/ noun noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification. You are welcome.
Think that was understood. His point was the particular analogy chosen was so far removed it did nothing to clarify or explain. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2149
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 02:29:10 -
[1150] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:... His point was the particular analogy chosen was so far removed it did nothing to clarify or explain. The divide was a dainty skip. If you think that is far removed then you have not been in the company of truly intelligent people. (I have had the experience with only one group, consistently, where by the time I have made the connections between two things that were said and then the third, the conversation had moved on so far that I was multiple topics behind. (Certainly not these forums, hurr hurr.))
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
546
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 03:03:35 -
[1151] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:... His point was the particular analogy chosen was so far removed it did nothing to clarify or explain. The divide was a dainty skip. If you think that is far removed then you have not been in the company of truly intelligent people. (I have had the experience with only one group, consistently, where by the time I have made the connections between two things that were said and then the third, the conversation had moved on so far that I was multiple topics behind. (Certainly not these forums, hurr hurr.))
A personal insult that misses the mark. It is great to see the Jenshae I remember from 2011 resurfacing. For the record cognitive association in general conversation is not the measure of true intelligence. It can be used as a measure of a type of intelligence, although those measures become some what skewed when one compares control subjects to those who are under the effects of LSD. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2149
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 03:05:21 -
[1152] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:... For the record cognitive association in general conversation is not the measure of true intelligence.... Wrong granny to start teaching to suck eggs.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
546
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 03:14:44 -
[1153] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:... For the record cognitive association in general conversation is not the measure of true intelligence.... Wrong granny to start teaching to suck eggs.
I am merely replying in kind.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3896
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 06:48:53 -
[1154] - Quote
Sugar Kyle has made an *awesome* work in putting Incarna in context as a part of her blog series "A Look at the History of Expansions".
Here's Part twenty-three
I think it puts WiS in its context, and Incarna too. It was a massive expansion and it shaped the game as we know it now. It was 95% successful, but the 5% that misfired did it so horribly that it shaped the game as we know it, too... for bad.
You bet I'm eager to read part twenty-four as Sugar recaps Incarnaggeddon.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
482
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 07:02:28 -
[1155] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Sugar Kyle has made an *awesome* work in putting Incarna in context as a part of her blog series "A Look at the History of Expansions". Here's Part twenty-threeI think it puts WiS in its context, and Incarna too. It was a massive expansion and it shaped the game as we know it now. It was 95% successful, but the 5% that misfired did it so horribly that it shaped the game as we know it, too... for bad. You bet I'm eager to read part twenty-four as Sugar recaps Incarnaggeddon. The 5% was not there to read about unfortunately, CCP have done that with premeditation so players took offence and reacted with rage.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2351
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Posted - 2015.08.01 08:44:38 -
[1156] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Freya Sertan wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:.... Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right? LOL. Because, context in situations. You really need to get some perspective. Quote:analogy +Ö-ênal+Öd-Æi/ noun noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification. You are welcome. Think that was understood. His point was the particular analogy chosen was so far removed it did nothing to clarify or explain. The analogy was apt. I'm glad some enjoy making isk however many people play for reasons other than isk generation and attempting to place a better / superior label on the subjective value of recreation is nonsense. This really should not have to be explained at the primary school level like this on these forums.
The only tangible value that could be applied to WIS is whether it would generate sufficient real life cash for CCP which is purely opinion at this stage.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1236
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 10:29:17 -
[1157] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Sugar Kyle has made an *awesome* work in putting Incarna in context as a part of her blog series "A Look at the History of Expansions". Here's Part twenty-threeI think it puts WiS in its context, and Incarna too. It was a massive expansion and it shaped the game as we know it now. It was 95% successful, but the 5% that misfired did it so horribly that it shaped the game as we know it, too... for bad. You bet I'm eager to read part twenty-four as Sugar recaps Incarnaggeddon.
Yep, the opinion of a player who joined 6 months after the events is sure to be 100% accurate and objective.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
484
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 10:41:50 -
[1158] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Sugar Kyle has made an *awesome* work in putting Incarna in context as a part of her blog series "A Look at the History of Expansions". Here's Part twenty-threeI think it puts WiS in its context, and Incarna too. It was a massive expansion and it shaped the game as we know it now. It was 95% successful, but the 5% that misfired did it so horribly that it shaped the game as we know it, too... for bad. You bet I'm eager to read part twenty-four as Sugar recaps Incarnaggeddon. Yep, the opinion of a player who joined 6 months after the events is sure to be 100% accurate and objective. https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Indahmawar%20Fazmarai Research before you post.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Borascus
653
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 10:44:31 -
[1159] - Quote
Please use the likert scale to rate the following (we'll use the 1-5 scale for this, with 1 being useless, 5 being OP CCPyespls):
Retrospective:-
EVE Voice: Captains Quarters: Anomalies: DED complexes: Belt Rats: FozzieSov: Icons: Radial Menu: SKINs: FW: Incursions: Drone Compound removal: Industry Teams: Invention (post change): Hacking/Analyzing minigame: Hacking/Analyzing loot: Hacking/Analyzing lootspew mechanic: Ship rebalancing: Criminal system (crimewatch): Bounty/Killrights system: Killmail accuracy: Storyline Development: Fiction Portal: War Declaration mechanics: WarDec Allies: CONCORD responses in hi-sec: Mineral Rebalance: WH changes: Insurance: Ship model retuning: Website redesign: New Faction Ships:
Prospective:-
Something new on the horizon: The game receives UI changes:
Chances are you've already left a mark on these topics with your ingame/browser behaviour, they've all happened.
In my defense and to CCP hf.'s credit, I only offer a mark lower than 3 for: Storyline Development and The game receives UI changes.
(I've likely missed some, please feel free to include your own choices amongst this grouping)
CCP hf. have been developing what you like, whether you like it or not.
None of this has any significant impact on the thread other than the choice for something new on the horizon, the proposal in general discussion for WiS content is designed to indicate that: it's been proposed, It's been worked on, It's still in our memories, It's still an avenue they could take.
It does provide context to the thread by indicating that near everything else has been done since 2009, and 6 years later the production cycle brings us back round to storyline with Drifters, we would still like WiS.
tl:dr: CCP listened, there is now a development cycle that will include vanity or content, we would like to put forward WiS for another round of CCP hf.'s consideration. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2150
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 12:13:00 -
[1160] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:... The only tangible value that could be applied to WIS is whether it would generate sufficient real life cash for CCP which is purely opinion at this stage. Not entirely. - We know that social games do make money. - We know that EVE is, "about the people / community." - We know from CCP stats that despite lack of catering, we have a fairly healthy social player group.
What we can not say for absolute certainty is whether CCP would flesh WiS out sufficiently and in the right ways in order to extend the, "life" / subscription time of current social players and attract a substantial number of other social players.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
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Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6716
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 12:22:11 -
[1161] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: The analogy was apt. I'm glad some enjoy making isk however many people play for reasons other than isk generation and attempting to place a better / superior label on the subjective value of recreation is nonsense. This really should not have to be explained at the primary school level like this on these forums.
The only tangible value that could be applied to WIS is whether it would generate sufficient real life cash for CCP which is purely opinion at this stage.
This is literally the first rational thing I've ever seen you say. Did you finally find your frontal lobe or..... I don't know, who are you and what have you done with IZ?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3899
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 13:31:12 -
[1162] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Sugar Kyle has made an *awesome* work in putting Incarna in context as a part of her blog series "A Look at the History of Expansions". Here's Part twenty-threeI think it puts WiS in its context, and Incarna too. It was a massive expansion and it shaped the game as we know it now. It was 95% successful, but the 5% that misfired did it so horribly that it shaped the game as we know it, too... for bad. You bet I'm eager to read part twenty-four as Sugar recaps Incarnaggeddon. Yep, the opinion of a player who joined 6 months after the events is sure to be 100% accurate and objective.
OK, you did it, you showed us how your mom gave not birth to a genius.
First, the blog entry haves no opinions, only facts. You would know if you had read it. Second, those facts are taken from devblogs and other original sources. You would know if you had followed the links in the blog entry.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2351
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 05:00:08 -
[1163] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:... The only tangible value that could be applied to WIS is whether it would generate sufficient real life cash for CCP which is purely opinion at this stage. Not entirely. - We know that social games do make money. - We know that EVE is, "about the people / community." - We know from CCP stats that despite lack of catering, we have a fairly healthy social player group. What we can not say for absolute certainty is whether CCP would flesh WiS out sufficiently and in the right ways in order to extend the, "life" / subscription time of current social players and attract a substantial number of other social players. Yeah tangible basically means of real life value. The rest is subjective. One can't say WIS sucks because walking takes too long or being able to click a button rather than walking to visit an agent is stupid. Individuals will have opinions which conflict and two with opposing views might think they're right while both are right.
I believe WIS is a great idea and a worthy project but sometimes I'd prefer to click a button. I think WIS should not intrude upon established gameplay. I believe it should add functionality and provide opportunities for additional profit that isn't entirely generated in station.
Social games absolutely do make money. WIS IMO will make lots of money.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2154
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 05:19:10 -
[1164] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:... Individuals will have opinions which conflict and two with opposing views might think they're right while both are right. ... I agree that ship spinning should remain. If people do not have the computers to walk around or want nothing to do with WiS incase they catch space cooties then they should not have it forced upon them.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3919
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 13:10:32 -
[1165] - Quote
Well well well... coming 2016, and as CCP will allow us to man turrets against hordes of VR NPCs (on a Samsung phone), other players who are not so lucky are gonna experience in their other game the horrors of landing on real scale planets and exploring them, both from the ground and flying over them. Go figure.
Poor devils, I pity them. They will never enjoy Apochrypha 2.0 like us the +¬lite of space MMOs will do...
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Desslok VonReich
Acadia Investment Group
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 04:18:34 -
[1166] - Quote
Wow. Pages of "WiS is good/bad", "Burn Jita was about this/that", and lots of personal attacks.
And not a single post with new, compelling, solid gameplay for WiS. And absolutely nothing that would actually be an immersive capsuleer experience.
Capsuleers have all the promise that trans-humanism can offer and the best you all come up with is sitting at a bar for a drink or playing cards?
You have the ability to transfer consciousness at will, and the psychological ability to feel comfortable in non-humanoid bodies (ie, giant metal space death machines). And your game play is sitting on a bar stool. Sad. More than that, it's the small thinking of small people.
Since capusleers are no longer bound by the limitations, or even the very form of human flesh, how about this as an example. Dinosaurs. Or tanks. Actually, make them dinosaur tanks. Deathmatch dinosaur tanks. That would be a lot more interesting to gamble on than blackjack.
Now stop thinking like planet bound peasants and start thinking like the god machines you are.
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Salvos Rhoska
1404
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 04:28:23 -
[1167] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:Capsuleers have all the promise that trans-humanism can offer and the best you all come up with is sitting at a bar for a drink or playing cards?
PvE players have a very limited imagination.
Also nice necro. (or however that translates to reversed biomassing)
PvE v PvP
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2312
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 05:50:24 -
[1168] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Also nice necro. (or whatever term refers to resurrected biomass) "Nice Sansha job."
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
643
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 06:40:11 -
[1169] - Quote
A strong case exists for things like casinos which really benefit from having a good atmosphere. That would be my absolute first WIS implementation. Provided that CCP are smart about players nit being able to use plex as a currency then they should circumvent relevant legislation regarding gambling laws. If the only commodity is ISK then it's just a simulation with no REAL value, only extrapolated value.
I think things like bars would be a low priority. Encouraging the player to actually use their money is a good thing.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1503
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 06:47:41 -
[1170] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:A strong case exists for things like casinos which really benefit from having a good atmosphere. That would be my absolute first WIS implementation. Provided that CCP are smart about players nit being able to use plex as a currency then they should circumvent relevant legislation regarding gambling laws. If the only commodity is ISK then it's just a simulation with no REAL value, only extrapolated value.
I think things like bars would be a low priority. Encouraging the player to actually use their money is a good thing.
hmmm iwantisk dont use plex and look at the backlash they get from the service they provide, ccp is doing it right by letting 3rd parties do this sort of thing because it removes ccp's involvement in gambling
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Boom Laison
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 06:48:03 -
[1171] - Quote
This game is a very nice real life simulator, IMHO. With real economy and so. Walking in stations could be a nice and logical extension. Even if there would be no direct combat experience (poison someone in bar so he could not use clone and die with result of losing all/part skills could be nice and could be awefull, depends on point of view.) |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
643
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 06:56:25 -
[1172] - Quote
Boom Laison wrote:This game is a very nice real life simulator, IMHO. With real economy and so. Walking in stations could be a nice and logical extension. Even if there would be no direct combat experience (poison someone in bar so he could not use clone and die with result of losing all/part skills could be nice and could be awefull, depends on point of view.)
Game of alts.
CCP have probably abandoned the concept of WIS entirely because it straight up doesn't mesh well with the rest of the game. How completely lame would it be to have your 3bil hg clone get killed while you were logged off asleep?
Yes I know that a form of this is coming in terms of station destruction in null but that's not the same as say getting assassinated by a plant who quit corp a day after settling in to your staging station.
Combat related WIS is simply not a good idea.
That's not to say WIS has no place its just that you're going to face an uphill battle from the sabre rattlers still cooing the doom call of incarna.
I really wish those guys would just **** off and get out of the way. CCP could never pull another incarna and survive we don't need the incessant nay saying of the myopic trolls.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
409
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 07:44:27 -
[1173] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Boom Laison wrote:This game is a very nice real life simulator, IMHO. With real economy and so. Walking in stations could be a nice and logical extension. Even if there would be no direct combat experience (poison someone in bar so he could not use clone and die with result of losing all/part skills could be nice and could be awefull, depends on point of view.) Game of alts. CCP have probably abandoned the concept of WIS entirely because it straight up doesn't mesh well with the rest of the game.
All the more reason to implement it.
The games content needs a side-grade.
Plenty of people (I would argue most) who don't really care for what EVE offers in terms of gameplay, but appreciate the universe itself and would be happy to do other stuff in it which doesn't involve being a spaceship or playing a laggy FPS. |
Flynn Fetladral
Alekhine's Gun Decayed Orbit
557
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 07:48:34 -
[1174] - Quote
I did really like the in station mini-game they showed off before. They should release that as a standalone iOS game.
Oh and we used a little officer mods. KIDDING! We used a lot of officers mods, A LOT! Because we donGÇÖt :censored: around in low-sec.
@flynnfetladral on #tweetfleet
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
409
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 07:52:49 -
[1175] - Quote
At this point it would probably be best if ruin-exploration was kept on the eve client, but massive station environments had its own independent client that could be used to access character data from any of the eve related games. Best way to get everyone interacting imo. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
4101
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 08:41:36 -
[1176] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:Wow. Pages of "WiS is good/bad", "Burn Jita was about this/that", and lots of personal attacks.
And not a single post with new, compelling, solid gameplay for WiS. And absolutely nothing that would actually be an immersive capsuleer experience.
Capsuleers have all the promise that trans-humanism can offer and the best you all come up with is sitting at a bar for a drink or playing cards?
You have the ability to transfer consciousness at will, and the psychological ability to feel comfortable in non-humanoid bodies (ie, giant metal space death machines). And your game play is sitting on a bar stool. Sad. More than that, it's the small thinking of small people.
Since capusleers are no longer bound by the limitations, or even the very form of human flesh, how about this as an example. Dinosaurs. Or tanks. Actually, make them dinosaur tanks. Deathmatch dinosaur tanks. That would be a lot more interesting to gamble on than blackjack.
Now stop thinking like planet bound peasants and start thinking like the god machines you are.
Welcome, noob. You don't know what was discussed when it was the time to discuss ways in which CCP could save Incarna. More importantly, you weren't here taking a endless barrage of flak form every troll in the forums for two years, until it was made evident that CCP had abandoned WiS forever.
We don't care about your megalomania. I personally have dreams so big that you'd squint the eyes if you realized what they involve...
But so far, CCP doesn't wants to let us share our CQ with another character, despite how that code exists and was being tested 3 years ago.
Capsuleers as dinosaurs, you say. CCP is not willing not even to release a few clothes...
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
|
Cancel Align NOW
Maas Industries
587
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 09:23:42 -
[1177] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Desslok VonReich wrote:Wow. Pages of "WiS is good/bad", "Burn Jita was about this/that", and lots of personal attacks.
And not a single post with new, compelling, solid gameplay for WiS. And absolutely nothing that would actually be an immersive capsuleer experience.
Capsuleers have all the promise that trans-humanism can offer and the best you all come up with is sitting at a bar for a drink or playing cards?
You have the ability to transfer consciousness at will, and the psychological ability to feel comfortable in non-humanoid bodies (ie, giant metal space death machines). And your game play is sitting on a bar stool. Sad. More than that, it's the small thinking of small people.
Since capusleers are no longer bound by the limitations, or even the very form of human flesh, how about this as an example. Dinosaurs. Or tanks. Actually, make them dinosaur tanks. Deathmatch dinosaur tanks. That would be a lot more interesting to gamble on than blackjack.
Now stop thinking like planet bound peasants and start thinking like the god machines you are.
Welcome, noob. You don't know what was discussed when it was the time to discuss ways in which CCP could save Incarna. More importantly, you weren't here taking a endless barrage of flak form every troll in the forums for two years, until it was made evident that CCP had abandoned WiS forever. We don't care about your megalomania. I personally have dreams so big that you'd squint the eyes if you realized what they involve... But so far, CCP doesn't wants to let us share our CQ with another character, despite how that code exists and was being tested 3 years ago. Capsuleers as dinosaurs, you say. CCP is not willing not even to release a few clothes...
Quoting for posterity. Loving the lore.
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
410
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 09:27:42 -
[1178] - Quote
CCP policy is once-burned, twice shy. Hilmar is terrified to let anyone do anything with WiS because the big nasty forum trolls might call him names. He was very clearly traumatized in the aftermath of the riots.
On a side note, work was actually done for Dust that involved casually walking around the mercenary warbarge and going into different areas. Some of this has been shown before, and a lot of it hasn't been. Dust reached the memory limit on PS3 however, so implementing those new areas would involve sacrificing other content. Something not likely to happen.
At the rate things are currently going, however, it is very likely we will see a port to a better system and in the process finally get that content in Dust long before EVE achieves anything comparable. Still a good ways away, but that goal at least seems achievable compared to this one. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
4101
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 09:50:40 -
[1179] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:CCP policy is once-burned, twice shy. Hilmar is terrified to let anyone do anything with WiS because the big nasty forum trolls might call him names. He was very clearly traumatized in the aftermath of the riots.
On a side note, work was actually done for Dust that involved casually walking around the mercenary warbarge and going into different areas. Some of this has been shown before, and a lot of it hasn't been. Dust reached the memory limit on PS3 however, so implementing those new areas would involve sacrificing other content. Something not likely to happen.
At the rate things are currently going, however, it is very likely we will see a port to a better system and in the process finally get that content in Dust long before EVE achieves anything comparable. Still a good ways away, but that goal at least seems achievable compared to this one.
From what we know through interviews, it is likely that Hilmar was very very disappointed with EVE's failure to carry the weight of WiS. His ideas about VR are quite bold and his best personal chance to forward them was Incarna.
He may now build VR arcades for mobiles and VR shooters for PC, but the real deal for him would be VR human interaction. So maybe that is coming some day, just not in EVE, whose playerbase and realities are not up to Hilmar's dreams.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
411
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 10:08:05 -
[1180] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Kuronaga wrote:CCP policy is once-burned, twice shy. Hilmar is terrified to let anyone do anything with WiS because the big nasty forum trolls might call him names. He was very clearly traumatized in the aftermath of the riots.
On a side note, work was actually done for Dust that involved casually walking around the mercenary warbarge and going into different areas. Some of this has been shown before, and a lot of it hasn't been. Dust reached the memory limit on PS3 however, so implementing those new areas would involve sacrificing other content. Something not likely to happen.
At the rate things are currently going, however, it is very likely we will see a port to a better system and in the process finally get that content in Dust long before EVE achieves anything comparable. Still a good ways away, but that goal at least seems achievable compared to this one. From what we know through interviews, it is likely that Hilmar was very very disappointed with EVE's failure to carry the weight of WiS. His ideas about VR are quite bold and his best personal chance to forward them was Incarna. He may now build VR arcades for mobiles and VR shooters for PC, but the real deal for him would be VR human interaction. So maybe that is coming some day, just not in EVE, whose playerbase and realities are not up to Hilmar's dreams.
If he couldn't even get WiS to work there is no way in hell he has a proper vision for anything beyond man-in-machine VR. |
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Avanda Redblade
SL33P3R C3LL
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 11:33:41 -
[1181] - Quote
Yes I would like this please. |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
51889
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 11:47:03 -
[1182] - Quote
Everyday we be walkin'.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Gû+ -¦-âss
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
4101
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 11:59:18 -
[1183] - Quote
Oh, but nobody walks in LA.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
51889
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 12:09:22 -
[1184] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: My characters enjoy walking in stations all the time. Host friends, socialise, drink, enjoy dinners. You name it.
Nothing quite like coffee with friends after dunking that T3 fleet or ganking some caps.
Four channels alone dedicated to our family's palatial Amarr quarters home-away-from-home.
Would be nice though if more of it could be seen and shared beyond imagination and an MOTD.
But meanwhile there's no salt ... only suga.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Gû+ -¦-âss
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9403
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 16:16:51 -
[1185] - Quote
If I have 3 prostitutes, I would like to have a brothel to use them like they are supposed to.
Witcher 3 have them, why we cant?
And think about multiplayer options.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
433
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 21:28:50 -
[1186] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:If I have 3 prostitutes, I would like to have a brothel to use them like they are supposed to.
Witcher 3 have them, why we cant?
And think about multiplayer options. I prefer real prostitutes to cheap porn sold as "content"
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
383
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 18:09:02 -
[1187] - Quote
I wanted to open a bar in Amamake and name it "Amagankme Bar" ... now I will never be able to fulfill that dream.
Maybe we'll get a VR character-posing tool ... add some music and alcohol ...
In the mean time I hope Legion doesn't bite the Dust
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26044
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 18:12:33 -
[1188] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:CCP policy is once-burned, twice shy. Hilmar is terrified to let anyone do anything with WiS because the big nasty forum trolls might call him names. He was very clearly traumatized in the aftermath of the riots. Funnily enough, the riots weren't even really about WiS.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1507
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 18:25:15 -
[1189] - Quote
try p0rnhub, its much more staisfying ;)
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Johan Civire
Flux Technologies Inc Gentlemen's.Parlor
968
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 18:49:40 -
[1190] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:try p0rnhub, its much more staisfying ;)
You are thinking lets troll its more funny than the topic? some people want answer not troll if you have nothing to say then trolling stfu and let those people talk. Sick of those kind of people posting this nonsense every time just for stupid thumbs up.
DEV remove my post and that post. Thank you. |
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
384
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 19:23:43 -
[1191] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Lan Wang wrote:try p0rnhub, its much more staisfying ;) You are thinking lets troll its more funny than the topic? some people want answer not troll if you have nothing to say then trolling stfu and let those people talk. Sick of those kind of people posting this nonsense every time just for stupid thumbs up. DEV remove my post and that post. Thank you.
Please don't.
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26047
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 19:31:56 -
[1192] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote: You are thinking lets troll its more funny than the topic? some people want answer not troll if you have nothing to say then trolling stfu and let those people talk.
Answer to what? There haven't been any new developments, including any new and unanswered questions, on this topic for many years now.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
52069
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 19:32:39 -
[1193] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:I wanted to open a bar in Amamake and name it "Amagankme Bar" ... now I will never be able to fulfill that dream. Why not? I have a restaurant in Matari space.
It doesn't have a witty or edgy name, though the lobster is unparalleled.
Just poke if you and your special someone ever wish to utilize the channel sometime.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Gû+ -¦-âss
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Amber Starview
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 21:03:12 -
[1194] - Quote
They have station interior for dust I think can't we just have that ? |
Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1995
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 09:50:51 -
[1195] - Quote
I hope that CCP start development of avatar base gameplay soon, seeing how they have almost fixed every ship based issue that needed fixing back when CQ was introduced.
I'm not interested in WIS as a social area, I would rather CCP focus on some meaningful gameplay. It could be used to revitalise PVE and exploration... Imagain traveling into a wormhole, docking with a sleeper structure and exploring what is hidden inside.
I strongly believe avatar gamplay is vital if EVE is to survive another 5-10 years.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Salvos Rhoska
1431
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 10:35:12 -
[1196] - Quote
Its chance came and went when all that time, effort and money invested came up with nothing.
Too bad. Too sad.
PvE v PvP
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Hal Morsh
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
408
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 00:25:44 -
[1197] - Quote
Amber Starview wrote:They have station interior for dust I think can't we just have that ?
I said the same damn thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58UeNWldAaI&index=35&list=FLWZW72v-IYwPH5IC-mg_U7g
The reason this one existed was for the playstation avatar lobby thing, which no longer exists entirely i'm pretty sure.
It's pretty old, but here's what progress they had 2008 or previous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E&list=FLWZW72v-IYwPH5IC-mg_U7g&index=9
I thought of it as a waste to have finished it THAT far then quit. They had actual pod bays.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Desslok VonReich
Acadia Investment Group
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 04:19:49 -
[1198] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Welcome, noob. You don't know what was discussed when it was the time to discuss ways in which CCP could save Incarna. More importantly, you weren't here taking a endless barrage of flak form every troll in the forums for two years, until it was made evident that CCP had abandoned WiS forever.
Cripes, I have alts older than your character...
Its hard to tell between your attacks on myself and CCP, but I think you'd agree then there there has not been shown any compelling game play presented that has a hope of being implemented? |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
434
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 10:03:36 -
[1199] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I hope that CCP start development of avatar base gameplay soon, seeing how they have almost fixed every ship based issue that needed fixing back when CQ was introduced.
You don't undock much do you.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
404929
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 16:05:03 -
[1200] - Quote
Walking in stations already exists. All we need to add is guns, blood and more rooms.
-k8
My Fanclub
|
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9513
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 17:43:00 -
[1201] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Rek Seven wrote:I hope that CCP start development of avatar base gameplay soon, seeing how they have almost fixed every ship based issue that needed fixing back when CQ was introduced.
You don't undock much do you. http://i.imgur.com/2Pcaf3G.jpg
You cant satisfy everyone.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9513
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 17:51:05 -
[1202] - Quote
I remember the video from fanfest where they presented Ambulation and it was fully interactive. There were some bugs, but, I subscribed because of that video also.
CCP I am still waiting. 5 years was not enough to fix this game?
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Erin Crawford
485
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 18:20:21 -
[1203] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:I remember the video from fanfest where they presented Ambulation and it was fully interactive. There were some bugs, but, I subscribed because of that video also. CCP I am still waiting. 5 years was not enough to fix this game? Could an Icelandic thing... Maybe they should give it to the Germans? They may have it all done in a week or two..?
"Those who talk donGÇÖt know. Those who know donGÇÖt talk. "
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12360
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 18:51:41 -
[1204] - Quote
Desslok VonReich wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Welcome, noob. You don't know what was discussed when it was the time to discuss ways in which CCP could save Incarna. More importantly, you weren't here taking a endless barrage of flak form every troll in the forums for two years, until it was made evident that CCP had abandoned WiS forever.
Cripes, I have alts older than your character... Its hard to tell between your attacks on myself and CCP, but I think you'd agree then there there has not been shown any compelling game play presented that has a hope of being implemented?
A person with a realistic way of looking at things would surely agree with you. I don't think you would get much of that from your average WiS advocates. Not trying to be mean to them, they just aren't the realistic sort.
If they were they would understand that not only is CCP not the company to undertake such an endeavor (God love em, but super complicated projects aren't their forte, see WoD), but EVE is the wrong platform for it. It's an old game still plagued with legacy issues so deep it takes a major effort to do relatively minor things (like letting you return to the account lobby instead of having to log completely out and restart the client). A game needs to be created for the ground up for something like integrated WiS, and even when you do that you run into problems, as the makers of Star Citizen/Star Marine are finding out.
Continually trying to tack things on to a game with a Code Base from the late 90s is stupid. If the WiS types were asking for EVE II that would make more sense than what they are actually asking for. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9520
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:05:58 -
[1205] - Quote
Quote:super complicated projects aren't their forte, see WoD Are we talking about a company that is making EVE?
They only tried a new model of pshhhhh management technique on them. It failed.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
|
Salvos Rhoska
1446
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:15:50 -
[1206] - Quote
I dont think WiS would ever have contributed or produced anything meaningful or productive in EVE.
You need to be out in space to do everything that matters in EVE.
Station trading is an exception, but even then you are looking at the market interface, and not a WiS environment.
Its an alternative to ship spinning, but really, is it? A player who is shipspinning is already bored with the space content of EVE. Him walking around the station with other likewise bored people is not likely to result in anything constructive. Just a huge amount of tickets sent for inappropriate behavior, especially by "kalsarik+ñnni" (meaning "underwear drunks" in Finnish) players on a weekend.
Corps meetings in station to plan things might have been interesting, but this is already facilitated through forums, ingame chat and voice comms.
WiS seemed to feature some playable "chess" rendition minigame, and some latent potential for gambling systems (enormously frought with legal liabilities). I dont think either of these would improve retention or interest.
It was a failed concept from the start, barring actual FPS style content elsewhere than in a standard station. Underdstandable they pursued it, due to the remarkable character creation customisation system that, really weirdly, accompanied EVE development, and the forays into various avatar options explored and developed in the WoD effort. Some of that was implemented in DUST, but that too is now fail.
PvE v PvP
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9521
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:26:04 -
[1207] - Quote
Quote:You need to be out in space to do everything that matters in EVE. Or in chat. Jita local.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
|
Salvos Rhoska
1446
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:32:14 -
[1208] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Quote:You need to be out in space to do everything that matters in EVE. Or in chat. Jita local. Nothing matters in Jita local.
Its just endless streams of spam.
And as I said, ingame chat already provides that. You don't need a WiS station for it. You can do it while ship-spinning or standing idly in your Captains Quarters.
PvE v PvP
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
52231
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:43:26 -
[1209] - Quote
Everywhere that you have social interaction you have space content being generated as a result.
Forums. Local. Convos. Teamspeak. Slack. Off-game forums/sites. You name it.
To say providing more social platforms tied within the game won't produce any space content is kinda naive tbh.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Gû+ -¦-âss
|
Salvos Rhoska
1447
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:48:57 -
[1210] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Everywhere that you have social interaction you have space content being generated as a result.
Forums. Local. Convos. Teamspeak. Slack. Off-game forums/sites. You name it.
To say providing more social platforms tied within the game won't produce any space content is kinda naive tbh.
Its naive that you dont realize that exact same social content is already provided by exactly the forums, local, convos, teamspeak,mslack, offgame forums/sites that you mention.
Being able to walk around in a station while doing so does not add anything to those existing formats of social interaction.
It just means you can walk, while you talk. Who cares? You really think people give a damn about your avatar except for the first 1 second impression?
Furthermore, WiS station content systemically REDUCES space content, because you cant do both at once. Either you are trying to catfish desperate nerds with your sexy avatar in a station bar (!?) (and yours isnt attractive, btw), or you are out in space, making space content.
PvE v PvP
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
52231
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:50:51 -
[1211] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Everywhere that you have social interaction you have space content being generated as a result.
Forums. Local. Convos. Teamspeak. Slack. Off-game forums/sites. You name it.
To say providing more social platforms tied within the game won't produce any space content is kinda naive tbh. Its naive that you dont realize that exact same social content is already provided by exactly the forums, local, convos, teamspeak,mslack, offgame forums/sites that you mention. Being able to walk around in a station while doing so does not add anything to those existing formats of social interaction. It just means you can walk, while you talk. Who cares? You really think people give a damn about your avatar exceot for the first 1 second impression? We already have everything we need here for a kickass game of blowing up spaceships too.
So why are we asking for more or asking for improvements?
The "but we can already.." argument is equally naive.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Gû+ -¦-âss
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Salvos Rhoska
1447
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:03:21 -
[1212] - Quote
Is there supposed to be a point in there somewhere? I aint seeing it.
PvE v PvP
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9521
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:29:34 -
[1213] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Tbh Id be creeped the HELL out by people who choose to hang around in a station bar on their avatars. Id more or less assume they are some extremely lonely individuals looking for someone to engage in extremely weird cybering that I dont even want to think about,
Oh look I am spaceship! I have wings! I can fly! I am invincible! Oh no, what is this flash! Crap, CODE again, I need to grow a new pair....
#creepy
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
52232
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:47:05 -
[1214] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Is there supposed to be a point in there somewhere? I dont see it. Absolutely, sir. I'll show you ...
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tbh Id be creeped the HELL out by people who choose to hang around in a station bar on their avatars. Boom. And here it is, ladies and gentlemen. You only ever need dig a little under the surface.
This is the actual source of resistance to such a feature. Nothing to do with practicality, content, dev hours, etc. Those are just the superficial arguments that a lot of folks will try to peddle (and try rather hard for that matter).
It's all social resistance.
The perfect example to show exactly what I mean is ship skins. Here's a feature that adds absolutely nothing to any aspect of the game in any form. Yet as I write this post Devs are toiling in graphical interfaces to make more and more ship skins. They don't add content, they don't add immersion. They look the same every time you see them, it's not like John's Quafe Merlin or something will look any different to Matthew's Quafe Merlin, for example. People don't care if your ship is skinned or not, they won't pause on a gate and go "ohhh nice skin", in fact nobody will even know you have one unless you're on grid with a capital.
Take all the technical arguments against avatar-features and apply them to ship skins. Suddenly skins seem like the most ridiculous thing ever added to the game.
Yet here are hundreds of players pumping thousands of dollars into the game for these skins which don't even qualify as a vanity item. Little different to buying a custom colour for your EVE interface really. And sure, a lot of players actually feel like this and won't spend the money on skins.
But because skins may seem pointless to one person, just like an avatar feature may, doesn't mean those who do find it meaningful somehow should be prevented from enjoying it. Overall it's good for the game anyway: $$.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Gû+ -¦-âss
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Salvos Rhoska
1447
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:51:40 -
[1215] - Quote
Except you use those ship skins while doing EVE space stuff.
There have been, and are, EVE clothing options that also have some success. Those have not required WiS to happen, or have that success. People buy em to doll up their space barbie. Has no connection to WiS (because WiS DOES NOT EVEN EXIST).
You still haven't made a point.
PS: JESUS CHRIST. I just checked your blog.
"Modelling Career
Despite discharging from State Militia service, Erica didn't leave before being noticed by a prominent State Military propaganda officer who saw potential in the young woman to serve as a promotional and recruitment model for Caldari Navy. Erica's natural beauty, along with her with unusually long legs, made her ideal for the role and her images would go on to grace numerous military recruitment posters and several holo-magazine publications."
-http://mewmew.webnode.com/biographies/erica-dusette/
WTF AM I READING
PvE v PvP
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
52232
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 20:59:53 -
[1216] - Quote
Hello sir, I'm a roleplayer and it's nice to meet you.
You've maybe seen some of my other characters around. They all have character bios on that site too.
I've been kinda busy lately commissioning some lovely arts for them.
And, I made my point perfectly I think. You just don't want to see it because you're too busy being creeped out and trying your best to make yourself feel better about that by trolling. Not gonna work on this old camel, sir.
Edit: And please link my bio and blog properly if you're going to give it free plugs for me. GÖÑ
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Gû+ -¦-âss
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9521
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:00:35 -
[1217] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
PS: JESUS CHRIST. I just checked your blog.
You should have checked the killboard. Its where all the magick happens for you, right?
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
|
Salvos Rhoska
1447
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:02:34 -
[1218] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:And, I made my point perfectly I think. You just don't want to see it because you're too busy being creeped out
Yes.
You have made your point.
Yes.
I am DEEPLY and EXTREMELY creeped out.
PvE v PvP
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
52232
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:04:27 -
[1219] - Quote
*Gives you creepy-eyed stare*
!!!
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Gû+ -¦-âss
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Cassius Marcellus
BRG Corp
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:05:18 -
[1220] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
PS: JESUS CHRIST. I just checked your blog.
You should have checked the killboard. Its where all the magick happens for you, right?
Why would he do that? She has tons and tons more kills, and excellent efficiency, compared to his NPC Corp alt?
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mr roadkill
O G R E S Azgoths of Kria
25
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 21:17:31 -
[1221] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Is there supposed to be a point in there somewhere? I dont see it.
What does walking around in a station bar with your avatar offer, that Forums. Local. Convos. Teamspeak. Slack. Off-game forums/sites, dont already offer?
Walking in stations always seemed a bit pointless. Fighting on stations now that something else.
CCP answered their own point in regards to this in my opinion. The design issue was that we are immortal podpilots but we can be killed when outside the pod.
They then invented the clone soldier which for all the lore reasons are supposed to be different to us... a primative version for all intents and purposes.
But they could just as easily said 'pods are now obsolete you plug your ship directly into the sleeper implant that is in your brain (this is the new pod and it is in your head) when you get shot the implant registers your death and transmitts your conciousness to your new clone'.
And there you have it.... fighting in stations stations is now possible... once a 0.0 system has been entosises the station is vulnerable during the set timer you (the attacker) can land your ships unplug from it and go shoot people to take their stationservices. Once this is done you hack the main computer and the enemy has x hours to take it back.
Anyone? |
Dani Dusette
Isogen 5
8023
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:31:47 -
[1222] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: "with Dani attempting to seduce a former partner of Erica's while drunk one evening in station." Wow thanks, Erica. You put that in my public bio??
I'm never drinking again ...
AND JUST FYI .... I'm not used to drinking and fell asleep. Thus nothing happened. Okay?
<.<
d+¦ní
pàñpàñ
pàñ
-â-+l-â +¦-+ d+¦-Å-¦-+-ö-ò-ò c+¦-+ -â-â-à -ò-ö-ö -é-+-ö -ò-é+¦-Å-ò
ISD Ezwal: "Might I inform you that I am as real as it gets?"
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
694
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 03:48:27 -
[1223] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:CCP management has underestimated importance of RPG elements (avatars) while strategy/PvP part obviously isn't enough to keep players in EVE having 3+ competing spaceship games on the market. Each competitor either has avatars already or will add them during 2015 - EVE will be the only WiS-less spaceship game in 2016. And only one with mandatory subscription.. You forgot, "Eve is the best of the spaceship games" ...even if you are referring to that mythical star-ship game, citizen star commander or what ever it's called..
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
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Cfern Arsten
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 05:22:55 -
[1224] - Quote
WiP should be the framework for a completely separate, but EVE-related, game. An adventure game. Strategy game. Shooter. Etc. I hope to see that in the future. |
Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1999
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 05:57:41 -
[1225] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Rek Seven wrote:I hope that CCP start development of avatar base gameplay soon, seeing how they have almost fixed every ship based issue that needed fixing back when CQ was introduced.
You don't undock much do you.
I don't dock at all because I live in wormhole space...
Do you have a point to you stupid little comment? Or are you going to sit there and tell me that eve is going to be fine as long as it keeps doing the same old stuff it has been doing for years?
Eve has improved but sooner or later games live star citizen will offer everything eve does and more, while you guys are still posting in the "eve is dying" threads wondering what's happening
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
414
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 09:29:00 -
[1226] - Quote
Cfern Arsten wrote:WiP should be the framework for a completely separate, but EVE-related, game. An adventure game. Strategy game. Shooter. Etc. I hope to see that in the future.
Oh, you mean Dust.
Yes, yes it should. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
923
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 09:53:26 -
[1227] - Quote
CCP should have made a single player/limited coop FPS/RPG along the likes of Mass Effect or Deus Ex. Play a lowly normo human space pirate, explore seedy space stations and various planet environs, come across some freaky capsuleer demigods every now and then... Wanna be one of those freaky capsuleers you saw? Subscribe to EVE Online!
CCP would get to do a bunch of stuff with the EVE universe that would be problematic in EVE itself. CCP doesn't seem to want to do anything other than "service" style games though. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
458
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 12:31:06 -
[1228] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:CCP should have made a single player/limited coop FPS/RPG along the likes of Mass Effect or Deus Ex. Play a lowly normo human space pirate, explore seedy space stations and various planet environs, come across some freaky capsuleer demigods every now and then... Wanna be one of those freaky capsuleers you saw? Subscribe to EVE Online!
CCP would get to do a bunch of stuff with the EVE universe that would be problematic in EVE itself. CCP doesn't seem to want to do anything other than "service" style games though. Yeah, that sort of game would have been good. They could have made it indeed free to play, with option of subscribing. If player chose to subscribe, they would get access to cloning facilities (without which dying would be permanent - and thus could be seen as hard mode). Player would also geet access to EVE, though they would have to train EVE skills to be able to fly the ships.
As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting".
-CCP Aporia
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Kinroi Alari
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno
40
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:07:58 -
[1229] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I don't dock at all because I live in wormhole space...
Heh. I keep a clone in Thera just because it amuses me to be able to dock in w-space / Anoikis.
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Kinroi Alari
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno
40
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Posted - 2015.09.15 14:11:58 -
[1230] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:CCP should have made a single player/limited coop FPS/RPG along the likes of Mass Effect or Deus Ex. Play a lowly normo human space pirate, explore seedy space stations and various planet environs, come across some freaky capsuleer demigods every now and then... Wanna be one of those freaky capsuleers you saw? Subscribe to EVE Online!
I'd love to see something like this as a feeder game (it might also give some of my corpmates who have bailed for kids or jobs a way to keep his or her hand in New Eden in a lower pressure way than as a capsuleer).
But then I am silly and hope that CCP revives the idea of meatspace exploration of abandoned relic stations, etc., by capsuleers, cloned infantry, and the like.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9563
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:04:05 -
[1231] - Quote
"Slay" was a strategic take on the EVE universe, and you know what? It was showed in this Ambulation demo we never got our hands on. We had Incarna.
Playstation players got it.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Lethal Intent.
4466
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:27:00 -
[1232] - Quote
wis was added to third-person time-wasting simulator warframe recently. a player hub was added with stores and npcs not available in the captain's quarters. emotes are also included. the only time i saw it being used for social interaction was during an event. all the rest of the time, it's just a tedious walk through to talk to an npc
the emotes for some awful reason can be activated by mistake inside a dungeon, which is a great way to get shot to death, because the emote menu is right next to the item menu. i have not seen a player use the emotes intentionally except inside the dungeon exit room, where there's nothing else to do while you wait for other players to catch up
on the other hand, the player characters in warframe don't talk in the lore which has obvious restrictions on roleplay |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9563
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 16:52:41 -
[1233] - Quote
Do you RP in Warframe? How deep does the rabbit hole go?
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Lethal Intent.
4467
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:14:45 -
[1234] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Do you RP in Warframe? How deep does the rabbit hole go? me, no. others, yes, but as far as i'm aware it's not a big thing. warframe's protagonists look cool but don't appear to have any character. compare that to something like city of heroes which really let you create a personality
i wanted to talk about the hubs and wis, though. i see them as having the functions of social interaction, rp and gameplay. warframe's version of wis doesn't have the first two going on and the third is pretty limited. i mean, i'd consider a wis project a success if the gameplay inside is entertaining or players actually begin to congregate there to chat/roleplay in meaningful numbers
the hub is pretty, though
e: you know, i just realised i play on the oceania server which in any game tends to be underpopulated. i doubt there's much more going on in the hubs on the usa or eu servers but i really can't say for sure |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
458
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 17:43:56 -
[1235] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:[quote=Bagrat Skalski] e: you know, i just realised i play on the oceania server which in any game tends to be underpopulated. i doubt there's much more going on in the hubs on the usa or eu servers but i really can't say for sure Roleplayers in most games tend to designate one server as RP server and gather there, so I would not be surprised if they had done that in Warframe as well.
As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting".
-CCP Aporia
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
418
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:33:15 -
[1236] - Quote
mr roadkill wrote: And there you have it.... fighting in stations stations is now possible... once a 0.0 system has been entosises the station is vulnerable during the set timer you (the attacker) can land your ships unplug from it and go shoot people to take their stationservices. Once this is done you hack the main computer and the enemy has x hours to take it back.
Anyone?
As long as we can hang out afterwards in the newly conquered station bar, why not?
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9575
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 18:44:25 -
[1237] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:mr roadkill wrote: And there you have it.... fighting in stations stations is now possible... once a 0.0 system has been entosises the station is vulnerable during the set timer you (the attacker) can land your ships unplug from it and go shoot people to take their stationservices. Once this is done you hack the main computer and the enemy has x hours to take it back.
Anyone?
As long as we can hang out afterwards in the newly conquered station bar, why not?
And if the station could be customized and would retain the design after the conquest, we could see some tourism going on.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Lethal Intent.
4467
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 19:34:22 -
[1238] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Roleplayers in most games tend to designate one server as RP server and gather there, so I would not be surprised if they had done that in Warframe as well.
i don't think that's the case here. it's really a regional setting rather than server selection, anyway - warframe does not provide servers except for the hubs and games are limited to four people. this does limit comparison between warframe's hubs and what wis eve might have had - the games and communities are pretty different, and warframe's far less social. but both'd pretty much be tack-ons to the 'main' game |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9581
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 20:59:16 -
[1239] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:'main' game You are forgetting that WIS, done right, would be a part of a game as much as every other part they added earlier. What we could talk about would be main activities then. You have seen probably that with Ambulation we could have got that right setting.
Conflict between players with this board game "Slay". Interactions between avatars and NPC in bars. Customizability with player establishments and clothes.
Expand on these three key features and you will have better experience.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
|
Salvos Rhoska
1454
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 21:22:07 -
[1240] - Quote
Wishful, wistful, thinking.
Time, money, effort came and went, to no result expect loss.
EVE II could promise it, but apparently that is not in CCP plans.
PvE v PvP
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9583
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 21:48:27 -
[1241] - Quote
Yeah, they would rather blow all money on games for 3D googles, recreating Space Invaders and Star Wars: TIE Fighter games, but with EVE artwork and background.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 07:42:09 -
[1242] - Quote
I support implementing WIS. |
erg cz
Aligned Fleet CZ-SK
341
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 07:58:09 -
[1243] - Quote
As long as walking in station will not be displayed on killboards it is a perfect feature to dump ISK without ruining game balance. It would make game more interesting, cause of strong social context of the game itself.
Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra 2 weeks of Eve for free!
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Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
649
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 10:09:39 -
[1244] - Quote
erg cz wrote:As long as walking in station will not be displayed on killboards it is a perfect feature to dump ISK without ruining game balance. It would make game more interesting, cause of strong social context of the game itself. "Walking in stations" is already displayed on killboards - WiS clothes are ingame items with ISK value that can be hauled, lost and/or drop just like any other cargo.
Of course, i'd still like a sidearm and a possibility to walk up to a random Jita local spammer and blap him/her/it right in the polygonal head. And a killmail as if it was a pod kill, with implants and all.
Pity that isn't going to happen. |
Chocolate Mooses
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 14:53:19 -
[1245] - Quote
This poor horse is already dead due to massive beating and it's time we bury it. |
Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
25670
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 15:17:32 -
[1246] - Quote
Chocolate Mooses wrote:This poor horse is already dead due to massive beating and it's time we bury it. Don't be so hard on yourself.
And I wish I could shout you out
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9785
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 16:56:43 -
[1247] - Quote
Contrary to popular belief WIS idea is not a horse, and it cant die.
Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
|
Red Teufel
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
445
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:05:41 -
[1248] - Quote
WIS created one of the biggest spikes in eve activity in its entire history. Too much revenue for ccp to completely ignore expanding. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9787
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:07:23 -
[1249] - Quote
Actually the biggest spike was when they made new character creator, Incarna have seen dropping numbers because there was so so little WIS in there, its a shame.
Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
|
Cahir Ceallach
The Raza. RUCA Emperor
23
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 23:34:13 -
[1250] - Quote
CCP,
You deploy ship skinks, you deploy clothes.
Why do you don't relase you can get new customers from star citizen players.
They are fascinate about walking on stations, walking on ship, and walkings of planets. We wanna real sandbox. |
|
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
446
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 08:07:46 -
[1251] - Quote
the last thing we need is Star Citizen fan boys and girls. Also Eve and Star Citizen are like polar opposites in what they are. SC isn't even really an MMO.
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17107
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 12:45:26 -
[1252] - Quote
Cahir Ceallach wrote:CCP,
You deploy ship skinks, you deploy clothes.
Why do you don't relase you can get new customers from star citizen players.
They are fascinate about walking on stations, walking on ship, and walkings of planets. We wanna real sandbox.
BECAUSE
THEY
CAN'T
Why is this so hard for people to accept?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25258
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 13:46:08 -
[1253] - Quote
Cahir Ceallach wrote:CCP,
You deploy ship skinks, you deploy clothes.
Why do you don't relase you can get new customers from star citizen players.
They are fascinate about walking on stations, walking on ship, and walkings of planets. We wanna real sandbox. Most of the players that it would theoretically attract would rage quit when they undock and eventually get ganked. Lack of walking somewhere is not what puts most people off of Eve, the very nature of the game does that, and that is by design; hence the term niche game.
Star Citizen is burning money and achieving little by trying to be all of things for all of the people, Half Life 3 is more likely to be released than Star Citizen is to be a "finished" game that lives up to the promises that have been made.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Aina Aideron
Night Raven Task Force Eternal Pretorian Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 15:56:33 -
[1254] - Quote
Been trying to figure out how avatar gameplay could be tried out in eve in a way that would:
- Make sense to the eve universe - Help to improve the experience in other parts of the gameplay that have been requested - Allow for more and a different way of of collaboration and interaction between players - Be possible to implement without being very costly or a risk for CCP - Relevant and meaningful for a large part of the eve players. A well-prepared concept is something CCP could get feedback on in a survey. - Not affect other parts of eve or players that don't want to engage in it, negatively. - Can be used to determine if more avatar gameplay can be developed
Here is the idea:
When out scanning for exploration sites, the idea is to be able to dock at some of the exploration structures, like it was a station, and have the possibility to enter it together with maybe up to three others in your fleet, and that the gameplay would be avatar related and involve investigating the structure. Either alone or with others there could be several different aspects to this gameplay in order to be successful at the exploring. There are challenges like repairing, hacking, decrypting, salvaging and obstacles. Possibly npc combat too. It would be possible but hard to take on all the roles yourself, encouraging to bring someone with you. Each role could require specialization on a level similar to Dust.
Here are the reasons I have for how this idea could fulfill the points:
It would stay true to the lore and fiction, and would make sense in eve, because it is likely that in some of the structures you find, the items are not only in the cargo bay. They may be deeper into the structure, only accessible by entering the structure. There could also be challenges like repairing the cargo bay doors and getting the power up on the structure, in order to be able to pick up the items when you undock. In order to enter the structure, there is perhaps most realistically a jump clone you use when you dock at this structure.
I think this would add something to the experience of exploring, which has been asked for on many forum threads. You can also decide if you want to do it alone or with someone, it is just easier and faster if there are more people and possible to get more loot.
Since you could be a group that investigate the exploration structure together, it allows for collaboration between people in a different way in eve.
For costs, maybe it wouldn't be too costly as the designs of the backgrounds and interior bits could be similar to the (hopefully) upcoming Legion and so a lot of the work could be used again. There is no need for these areas to be huge either, as it is mainly the tasks that could be the focus in this setting. When docking at a relic or data structure, it would obviously be necessary to have a suit, regardless of if it is the capsuleer or a jump clone. So that means that the characters would be similar to those in Legion, which could mean another save in development. Though, given that explorer suits often favour mobility rather than armour, the suit shapes would not be as generic as in Legion and so they should adapt the characters apperance more like other apparel in eve. It would make the avatar gameplay more compelling if it is possible to recognize your character among the others. Though for those wanting to take the role of combat, identical suits to those in Legion would be obvious. I imagine a lot of different suit designs, made specifically for the task you focus on. Modifications and skins for the suits could be relevant as well. From the technical side, it would be easier to make high end graphics since four characters could be max. In short, something similar to Legion, but where the focus is on exploration. Unlike Legion though, these areas should generally be third person, like in CQ.
If it is relevant and meaningful for a large part of the eve players, it is impossible to say. If there is a concrete design idea made, maybe a survey among the eve players could answer that. You would have to use a longer time on each exploration structure, but that could be balanced by higher rewards from the extra items you could find within the structure. In order to make exploration something more, independent on of if you want avatar gameplay or not, I had a suggestion in another thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6082884#post6082884
For the moment I don't think if this was implemented, that it would affect the gameplay in other parts of eve. The avatar gameplay doesn't directly affect something in eve, you just find the items inside the structure or solve the puzzles and tasks so that the structure becomes accessible for the relic and data scanner after you undock. But I must think more about this.
The last thing is that it would allow CCP to find out how avatar gameplay works in eve and guage the interest of avatar related gameplay that's directly related to eve, since this would be directly connected to eve.
Problems I see with the idea: I have to think about some reasonable answers, don't have for all yet. why max four people, it seems artificial to have a limitation how can you prevent other non fleet ships from docking how do you find out if a certain exploration site is available for avatar gamaplay? I imagine at every exploration site, there are several different structures. Some are possible to do alone, others need collaboration outside and some requires that you dock Is it possible technically - this I won't have an answer to, hopefully someone does
Hope to get feedback on this idea! |
Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
670
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 16:08:29 -
[1255] - Quote
This is dumb.
No thanks. Delete thread please we don't need people talking about this anymore.
If you really want to walk around and talk to people, step up away from your computer and go "walk in station" outside or something.
The nerve of some people . . . . |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4471
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 21:25:36 -
[1256] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:'main' game You are forgetting that WIS, done right, would be a part of a game as much as every other part they added earlier. Conflict between players with this board game "Slay". Interactions between avatars and NPC in bars. Customizability with player establishments and clothes. yeah i don't think a facebook game is going to knit wis into eve online
Malcanis wrote:BECAUSE
THEY
CAN'T what if they believe in themselves cos the power of belief can overcome all obstacles and friendship is the greatest treasure |
W33b3l
Wolf-Monkey Bastards
18
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 15:27:31 -
[1257] - Quote
The real question is why CCP is still designing new cloths and putting it up for sale for aurum when you can't even leave your outer space hotel room. They should either finish WIS or completely remove the captain's quarters. Going on the way they are doesn't really make much sense.
Sure walking around the station would be an interesting distraction, but it would get old quick since it would be pointless. |
Terenius Neo
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 16:56:08 -
[1258] - Quote
There will always be a drawing feeling about to face a sleeper or a true slave face to face with my character and point a assault rifle on them after docking a station of named folk, right after my ship turned the defenses into dust or hunting a augmented Serpentis crime lord in high sec stations, lower level.
I imagine doing this while taking a walk in the park dome before, watching the stars above and eavesdrop someone talking about drugs. What was demanded by the local agent or something.
Really, the Eve Universe is everything possible in sci-fi to date. You know when you read the novels. I remember the chapter in The Burning Life about cosmetic changes. Sick but I loved it. |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
419
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 05:23:37 -
[1259] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:CCP,
You deploy ship skinks, you deploy clothes.
Why do you don't relase you can get new customers from star citizen players.
They are fascinate about walking on stations, walking on ship, and walkings of planets. We wanna real sandbox. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T Why is this so hard for people to accept?
Probably because nobody with even a shred of sense believes them when they say that.
Optimizations were certainly necessary, but it could be done. Graphic card tech has also advanced quite a bit since the summer of rage. The stress can be handled much better for most users. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
446
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 07:10:24 -
[1260] - Quote
W33b3l wrote:The real question is why CCP is still designing new cloths and putting it up for sale for aurum when you can't even leave your outer space hotel room. They should either finish WIS or completely remove the captain's quarters. Going on the way they are doesn't really make much sense.
Sure walking around the station would be an interesting distraction, but it would get old quick since it would be pointless. Wait you have captain quarters on? I do have captain quarters removed. At lot of people do! One of the reasons they don't bother with WiS is they have data on how many people really give a ****. Oh and as has been said about a billion times before. They people that want WiS or would pay for it, won't play eve. They already play the different WoW in space games out there. You won't capture that audience by doing more of the same.
Seriously who wants a ******* space toilet. What 5% chance per hour you go "afk" for a dump. 10% chance of fecal matter in mouth during combat for each subsequent dump? Need to train take space ***** to lvl 5.
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
|
Hecatanidi
Eridu Productions
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 15:01:31 -
[1261] - Quote
I want WiS
Sorry if it annoys ppl.
EvE is the most beautifully designes space game available by far. Why not just walk around corridors and enjoy the view. @CCP: Just make sure you don't forget portholes. |
LancashireUK
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
4
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 15:26:52 -
[1262] - Quote
Hecatanidi wrote:I want WiS
Sorry if it annoys ppl.
EvE is the most beautifully designes space game available by far. Why not just walk around corridors and enjoy the view. @CCP: Just make sure you don't forget portholes.
So do I. I was looking forward to WIS, and I was hoping in the future we would be able to land on planets and take a look around. I understand though that WIS was a tester for their WoD MMO that they gave up on.
IMO CCP has the best space MMO at the moment, they just need to add more to attract new people and keep current subscribers entertained. I can see SC taking a few EVE players as it seems to be offering quite a wide variety of gameplay options in a space sim, ie. Pilot, FPS, crafting, trading, exploring, landing on planets, etc. with the option of viewing your character or not.
talkGEEK || The Volition Cult
|
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12866
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 15:30:10 -
[1263] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:CCP,
You deploy ship skinks, you deploy clothes.
Why do you don't relase you can get new customers from star citizen players.
They are fascinate about walking on stations, walking on ship, and walkings of planets. We wanna real sandbox. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T Why is this so hard for people to accept?
I too used to bang my head against the same brick wall . I don't know all WiS advocates and don't claim to, this is just an observation, something i see in the ones that post in these forums: They just aren't the pragmatic type. They are 'dreamer' types and when you are a dreamer, anything is possible for you (don't let objective reality tell you otherwise!).
People who feel that way about themselves (again, regardless of any evidence to the contrary, notice all the 'dreamers' who claim to be actors despite their 15 year tenure at this fine and totally high class eating establishment) , they think it's also true of everyone else, including CCP. So to them, all CCP has to do is just believe in themselves really really hard and BAM, next thing you know, WiS.
TL;DR, it's no use telling them what you told them even though it's actually true. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2369
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 17:57:22 -
[1264] - Quote
Why hasn't Dust been better integrated with WiS? There is already all that code there that we could be using.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1008
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 18:21:14 -
[1265] - Quote
dust? o god here we go again. Wis holy ****. Thats was the old stuff now. The want it pay to win sp isk game. Rage there please do not reopen a old threat is a dead topic. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2369
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 18:49:43 -
[1266] - Quote
Dust is officially profitable. Not a huge success but they are in the green now.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
ReptilesBlade
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
73
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 23:39:55 -
[1267] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Malcanis wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:CCP,
You deploy ship skinks, you deploy clothes.
Why do you don't relase you can get new customers from star citizen players.
They are fascinate about walking on stations, walking on ship, and walkings of planets. We wanna real sandbox. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T Why is this so hard for people to accept? Probably because nobody with even a shred of sense believes them when they say that. Optimizations were certainly necessary, but it could be done. Graphic card tech has also advanced quite a bit since the summer of rage. The stress can be handled much better for most users. The reason it hasn't been done is because it became not a priority, not because it was an unsolvable dilemma. Hilmar got burned in a big way and he was terrified of even approaching the subject again.
As someone who fully participated in the summer of rage it is as it should be. Hilmar needs to be terrified of us, because if he does something like that again we wont be just calling for his head we will be mounting it outside the keeps wall.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2369
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 23:45:44 -
[1268] - Quote
ReptilesBlade wrote: As someone who fully participated in the summer of rage it is as it should be. Hilmar needs to be terrified of us, because if he does something like that again we wont be just calling for his head we will be mounting it outside the keeps wall. I was there. WiS was disappointing but potential of "gold ammo" / "gold ships" and monocles where the real rage.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Hal Morsh
Hmmzor. Battlecruisin' Space Goats
437
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 12:32:12 -
[1269] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:ReptilesBlade wrote: As someone who fully participated in the summer of rage it is as it should be. Hilmar needs to be terrified of us, because if he does something like that again we wont be just calling for his head we will be mounting it outside the keeps wall. I was there. WiS was disappointing but potential of "gold ammo" / "gold ships" and monocles where the real rage. I was pretty pissed off that my 8800 GTX seemed fine, I AFK with the Captain's Quarters running (you couldn't chose ship spinning at that point), come back later and it was fried.
Don't worry. I had an 8800gtx (the one with the massive fan?) and one day I started up my computer and the fan didn't spin, thing ******* melted.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
|
Persifonne
The Scope Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 21:59:38 -
[1270] - Quote
I think if we had WiS the player count wouldnt be in the low 20ks today |
|
Lulu Lunette
Blue Aurochs United Systems of Aridia
116
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 22:03:14 -
[1271] - Quote
Persifonne wrote:I think if we had WiS the player count wouldnt be in the low 20ks today
Dunno why these guys wouldn't want us in their captain's quarters.
@lunettelulu7
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
228
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 23:10:23 -
[1272] - Quote
I doubt WIS would have made that much difference.
But if you extended it to walking on other planets then it would.
But then of course you have DUST. |
01101989
Regnum Satanae
20
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 00:31:28 -
[1273] - Quote
Yes. Please implement this. Don't mind the fanboys. Most people would enjoy such features. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1652
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 00:38:36 -
[1274] - Quote
WIS back then ...
Badly implemented and a waste of resources, no obvious point to it and generally a bad plan. As a result a huge backlash from players.
WIS now ...
PRO The tech is there with Dust and the failed but functional WoD IP . Player hardware generally is a lot more WIS friendly .
CON Still no obvious ingame purpose other than showing off your avatar. Bad Blood from previous attempt will make it hard to implement unless its done in very small increments.
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40852
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 05:07:12 -
[1275] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:CON Still no obvious ingame purpose other than showing off your avatar. Bad Blood from previous attempt will make it hard to implement unless its done in very small increments.
One more con;
CON: CCP no longer own the WoD IP
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4162
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 07:39:10 -
[1276] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:CON Still no obvious ingame purpose other than showing off your avatar. Bad Blood from previous attempt will make it hard to implement unless its done in very small increments.
One more con (assuming the WoD development would be useful for a potential WiS implementation); CON: CCP no longer own the WoD IP
They still own the assets and technology used in the game, assuming they weren't scrapped as the Ambulation assets.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Aldur Vaako
Order of the Imperial Knights
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 08:53:42 -
[1277] - Quote
Walking in station, would certainly be cool to have at some point but I would rather they add support for joystick over walk in station. (Yes I am aware of the likely hood of that happening is around the same as me winning the lottery) |
Valeska Vasile
Pinard Industries
6
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 10:03:40 -
[1278] - Quote
i think WIS could be a part of the new gameplay brought by citadels.
Multiple docking bay = natural lobbies and hangars to walk in.
Oh, and it would be amazing to see some room-scale citadel fittings, and even maybe run to get inside a defense turret.
But hey, maybe in 10 years when dust for Pc will release. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1658
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 23:10:41 -
[1279] - Quote
What might work is if in station WIS is based on the GTA4 franchise. |
Terminal Insanity
Pwn 'N Play SpaceMonkey's Alliance
820
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 23:14:09 -
[1280] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left.
they stopped working on it to work on better things, like fozziesov! CCP knows you like timers, so they put a timer on your timer so you can watch the timer countdown until you put a timer on it
Oh, and siphons. Because requiring you to run thirdparty software to detect ingame item theft is cool too
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
|
|
Raven Null
BRETHREN MOONS
4
|
Posted - 2015.12.14 13:35:59 -
[1281] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Yes. Please implement this. Don't mind the fanboys. Most people would enjoy such features. I know CCP would make some money from me for getting to redesign some of my characters |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
27577
|
Posted - 2015.12.14 13:56:10 -
[1282] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left. they stopped working on it to work on better things, like fozziesov! CCP knows you like timers, so they put a timer on your timer so you can watch the timer countdown until you put a timer on it Oh, and siphons. Because requiring you to run thirdparty software to detect ingame item theft is cool too That was a funny read, thanks. :D
CCP stopped working on in Incarna five years ago ... ... because they needed the devs for FozzySov five years later.
Brilliant. :D
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
|
Demica Diaz
SE-1
150
|
Posted - 2015.12.14 14:34:48 -
[1283] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Contrary to popular belief WIS idea is not a horse, and it cant die.
"What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere." - Cobb
Damn it CCP, look what your Inception did to us!
Here's a thought for brain though. Once Star Citizen flops you will have a lot of players hungry for WiS, could be opportunity for CCP, ay?... ay? Altough if SC will not flop...
|
Kaska Iskalar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2015.12.14 14:41:06 -
[1284] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left. The TL;DR version is that they focused almost exclusively on it and ignored the space game. People got pissed and rioted. There's a memorial in Jita. CCP has been terrified to touch walking in stations ever since. |
Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
525
|
Posted - 2015.12.14 15:00:54 -
[1285] - Quote
most people...everybody but...all the folks I play with...anyone with any intelligence...the cool kids....
(Let's keep padding this thread. It's half as thick as the EVE Is Dying thread, though it has twice the bilge!)
There just isn't anything that can be said!
|
Kimyko Achuka
Mons Olympus Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.28 18:59:31 -
[1286] - Quote
No walking on station -> waiting for SC . End of Story |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4455
|
Posted - 2015.12.28 21:10:28 -
[1287] - Quote
Kaska Iskalar wrote:Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left. The TL;DR version is that they focused almost exclusively on it and ignored the space game. People got pissed and rioted. There's a memorial in Jita. CCP has been terrified to touch walking in stations ever since. Avvy wrote:I doubt WIS would have made that much difference.
But if you extended it to walking on other planets then it would.
But then of course you have DUST. That's what baffled me about Dust. Why make it a console game when it had so much potential for Eve integration? Imagine docking and ending up in Dust when you get out of your ship. That would have been awesome. But no they'd apparently rather waste the effort for a console that can't be integrated tightly with Eve and that will need to be ported to new generation consoles about every 5 years. It was a massive waste of potential.
Abridged version: They didn't had the PC developers to build DUST for PC so they hired PS3 developers in China. DUST is developed on Unreal engine, quite a different beast than EVE's propietary technologies.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
sirxazor
B-T-G
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 10:21:45 -
[1288] - Quote
lul, you want eve to stay up when other upcoming games (2016) will be released with full walkable ships planets stations insert anything else?
it will only get worse from here (2016) on. Atmospheric flight says hello too.
shoulda though about this when you still had a chance (2012) 4 years of planning...
oh well, good luck with your declining players online game :D |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7224
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 10:42:19 -
[1289] - Quote
sirxazor wrote:lul, you want eve to stay up when other upcoming games (2016) will be released with full walkable ships planets stations insert anything else?
it will only get worse from here (2016) on. Atmospheric flight says hello too.
shoulda though about this when you still had a chance (2012) 4 years of planning...
oh well, good luck with your declining players online game :D
Best estimates of this years decline are around 18% total, and it's a trend that looks to be possibly reversing. The only people that are going to leave are those easily distracted by shiny things with fancy logos, and it's always been that way; EVE's existing spaceship gameplay, the kind of gameplay that's intended for a game about spaceships, is doing just fine, and there are still new people joining it on a daily basis. Seriously, hang out in help chat in game, come meet some of 'em. The game obviously holds interest without WiS, and given how much development actually needs to go into that, and how much of the game has been and still is borked, CCP have their priorities straight when it comes to fixing the game first, and saving such extravagantly large client-bloating features for later.
Which, frankly, I'm not interested in and will never use. See how I speak for myself and don't assume that other people think the way I do, or that the few people I've talked to who agree with me are an accurate representation of EVE's entire player base? Anyway, if WiS is done, I'm not against it, as long as it has to be its own platform, it's own game, that can tie into EVE like DUST does but doesn't bloat the EVE client. You can use it with your EVE toon but you have to be logged off of EVE to use WiS because it will be a different program, which shouldn't matter because you won't be using your ship walking around a station anyway. This is going to be the best way to do it not just for the players, but the developers as well, because EVE's code would need a huge overhaul to support extensive gameplay changes like that. Sure, what you could call a foundation is there, but it's shaky at best.
All of those things though that you think are going to 'compete' with EVE - they are different kinds of games. I don't know why it's such a hard concept to grasp, but EVE is not a space flight combat simulation, it's more of an RTS if it's anything, and it's also a single-shard player-driven environment unlike anything that's coming out or been announced for the near or distant future. That uniqueness alone is enough to keep it going just fine. Just because you don't like it, and can't imagine why other people do, doesn't mean they don't and have no reason to.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7224
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 10:45:41 -
[1290] - Quote
Demica Diaz wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Contrary to popular belief WIS idea is not a horse, and it cant die. "What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere." - CobbDamn it CCP, look what your Inception did to us! Here's a thought for brain though. Once Star Citizen flops you will have a lot of players hungry for WiS, could be opportunity for CCP, ay?... ay? Altough if SC will not flop...
It won't, of course, but that doesn't mean anything. In it's own way, EVE has become another WoW, and everyone is calling the next big thing an "EVE killer" because they think fear mongering will get them the features they want if they stomp their feet hard enough and tune their tinfoil hats to the correct frequency.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6991
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 11:10:03 -
[1291] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:SC will probably be a game I'll enjoy, but it's not EVE, it's not like EVE, and I'll never not have time for EVE. Even when CCP turn it into a game for carebears?
Remiel Pollard wrote:If you make them both the same by giving them the same things and making them the same game well.... I already know and understand EVE, why would I bother with SC? That right there is a good reason for CCP to implement WiS. If they can do everything SC does nad more they have a better chance or retaining existing players, ensuring existing players don't split time with a competitor and gaining new players from SC that want what SC offers but would get more out of EVE with WiS.
Remiel Pollard wrote:Stand out and be your own thing, focus on the things that make your game unique, not just like everything else on the market. They are already focusing on VR, just like Elite.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2857
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 11:27:29 -
[1292] - Quote
WiS needs a purpose. No-one has yet given it an actual gameplay purpose that is sensible and fits in with the rest of the universe. The closest that ever came was the idea about exploring wrecks, but then there is the hugely awkward question about what happens to your ship in the mean time.
Frankly the 'single character, multiple games' idea they floated ages back tied in with a PC port of Dust is by far and away the best way forward for 'WiS' that allows meaningful gameplay if Dust was then expanded with additional PvE layers involving more than quick death matches. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28989
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 11:38:39 -
[1293] - Quote
If WiS ever sees the light of day ... ... you will see me with an army of short dressed alts ... ... raking in billions of ISK from happily paying victims!
Bring it!
Alex Grison > If there was a bipartisan bill supporting cannabis use for arthritic pain, it would be Joint support for Joint support for joint support
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6991
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 11:38:54 -
[1294] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:WiS needs a purpose. No-one has yet given it an actual gameplay purpose that is sensible and fits in with the rest of the universe. What's the gameplay purpose of skins?
The benefit to WiS is immersion. EVE lacks that and is rapidly slipping further into the realms of a casual game. When I play EVE, I'm rarely just playing EVE because it doesn't command enough attention or push for full immersion. Let's face it, many people don't even have sound enabled. On the other hand, when I play Elite it's full screen (and will be VR once Vive comes out), headphones on, full attention. Having WiS would allow you to do more in the same world without breaking the immersion.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Frankly the 'single character, multiple games' idea they floated ages back tied in with a PC port of Dust is by far and away the best way forward for 'WiS' that allows meaningful gameplay if Dust was then expanded with additional PvE layers involving more than quick death matches. This could be the solution if they get the transition between the games right. In essence though other than the executable being different there would be no difference between a separate game that allows you to walk about in a station on the same character and a the same functionality being developed as part of the same game.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4456
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 14:46:32 -
[1295] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:(...)
Frankly the 'single character, multiple games' idea they floated ages back tied in with a PC port of Dust is by far and away the best way forward for 'WiS' that allows meaningful gameplay if Dust was then expanded with additional PvE layers involving more than quick death matches.
That idea is probably backburned since the C-level executive behind it left CCP for nVidia last year. Incidentally he was also responsible for the CARBON framework and its associated technologies, which means that the current ingame avatar content is dead but the memo hasn't been released to us yet. If CCP ever wanted to add avatars to EVE gameplay, they would do it from scratch, with yet another engine...
...but then we know that CCP no longer wants avatar gameplay in EVE. What we got now is a beautifully crafted dead limb. Kudos to anyone still in CCP who was a part of it.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
119
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 15:03:24 -
[1296] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. It's a little more complicated than that. The rundown... - CCP spent more than a year developing it - While developing it, CCP basically ignored a whole bunch of "little" problems and imbalances throughout the game - the half-joking phrase " in 18 months" was coined from the above points (because that was how long we were told before CCP would get back to working on "other things") - CCP kept praising and hyping up WiS (Walking in Station) - Everyone hated the Dramiel. - The Captain's Quarters was finally released. ------ We got one room (Minmatar) and no access to the rest of the station (because no content had actually been made). ------ It was both buggy and a major resource hog (some video cards overheated) ------ The Captain's Quarters was "not optional." In fact... the original station view was removed entirely. If you disabled the Captains Quarters you would be given a static image of your ship in the hanger (see: no station spinning). ------ The Captain's Quarters was revealed mostly to be a R&D thing for the future... and players were all being used as "beta-testers." - Microtransactions were introduced. ------ The Microtransaction items costed way more than "micro-amounts" (there was a Monocle that costed about $70 USD in PLEX... shirts and pants were no better). - A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game). - Players revolted. ------ The forums were filled with flames and rage and ranting. ------ A "substantial" amount of players threatened to unsubscribe (I think it was 10% of the total playerbase) ------ Players went to Jita and began to shoot at a monument indefinitely to show their discontent. - CCP stayed stubbornly (and infuriatingly) silent about the whole thing. ------ The CSM was requested by CCP to come to Iceland and talk about the situation. - When CCP made their first public statement about the whole thing they attempted to rationalize it. ------ Players got angrier. - CCP acquiesced. ------- An apology was written by CCP's CEO himself (though, there are rumors that it may have been ghostwritten). ------- Players were promised that "gold ammo" type items would never become a thing. Microtransactions would be limited strictly to "vanity" stuff or things that were already available in some form (basically, "lateral benefits") ------- A new hanger view was made... just like the old one. ------- Captains Quarters view was made "optional." ------- CCP promised to refocus their efforts on space related stuff and work on all the "little things" that players had been basically begging for for almost 2 years. - CCP silently put WiS on the backburner. - The Crucible Expansion was released 6 months later. - Players rejoice. - Many "little" things are fixed and/or polished. - Some interesting things are introduced (i.e. Attack Battlecruisers) - Some old favorites were brought back (i.e. engine trails) - The current ship rebalancing efforts more or less started here. - Subscriptions hit an all time high (at the time). - Today... ------ WiS still brings up some bad memories. ------ It probably IS being worked on... somewhere in the background. ------ the biggest problem (that I see) is making it fit into the larger EVE universe without taking away from the space part of it. TLDR; Walking in Station was delayed/shelved due to a whole combination of events (poor planning, poor investments, poor execution, poor public relations) that led to an explosion of frustration among the playerbase (which had been building for some time). People are still sensitive about the whole thing. Someone may have mentioned this already, but if you look in the EVE: Universe art book it says they cancelled WiS completely and mentions the work they did may be used in another future game.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Action Nerd
Petulant Luddite GmbH
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 15:09:56 -
[1297] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:WiS needs a purpose. No-one has yet given it an actual gameplay purpose that is sensible and fits in with the rest of the universe. The closest that ever came was the idea about exploring wrecks, but then there is the hugely awkward question about what happens to your ship in the mean time.
Frankly the 'single character, multiple games' idea they floated ages back tied in with a PC port of Dust is by far and away the best way forward for 'WiS' that allows meaningful gameplay if Dust was then expanded with additional PvE layers involving more than quick death matches.
Pub brawls! So that we can get at the folks that hide in station during wardecs.
Other than that.... I got nothing.
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
119
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 15:11:42 -
[1298] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:WiS needs a purpose. No-one has yet given it an actual gameplay purpose that is sensible and fits in with the rest of the universe. The closest that ever came was the idea about exploring wrecks, but then there is the hugely awkward question about what happens to your ship in the mean time.
Frankly the 'single character, multiple games' idea they floated ages back tied in with a PC port of Dust is by far and away the best way forward for 'WiS' that allows meaningful gameplay if Dust was then expanded with additional PvE layers involving more than quick death matches. Given that we haven't heard anything about that since then, and that this year the "EVE: Legion" copyright was dropped without any statement from the company, it seems likely that isn't the direction they're planning to head anymore.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3871
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 15:14:23 -
[1299] - Quote
Legion died?
Oh god.
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
119
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 15:18:34 -
[1300] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Legion died? That's what it appears.
It's actually something we found a while back and have discussed to death on the Dust 514 forums by this point. It was at least 4-5 months ago, maybe more.
It's part of why we started #portDust514 in an attempt to try and get them to talk about what they're doing right now.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29060
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 15:38:51 -
[1301] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Legion died? That's what it appears. It's actually something we found a while back and have discussed to death on the Dust 514 forums by this point. It was at least 4-5 months ago, maybe more. It's part of why we started #portDust514 in an attempt to try and get them to talk about what they're doing right now. Dare I say that was rather half assed work you did there...
Not you, personally, but in general.
Alex Grison > If there was a bipartisan bill supporting cannabis use for arthritic pain, it would be Joint support for Joint support for joint support
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3727
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 15:58:12 -
[1302] - Quote
Long ago, before we got the incarna expansion, CCP had several threads going:
A new generation of drugs. The first ( and, as it turned out the only) was Quafe zero. A way for players to make said drugs, that required buying contraband items while off the grid. The chronicle "Jita 4-4" shows the idea. A way for other players to enforce the law against those who are trying to transport contraband. The current Crimewatch system is the result.
The entire system was never described. But here is my guess of how it might work. One player runs a bar. That player pays bribes to the station personel to look the other way. As a result, the bar becomes frequented by an NPC. Other players can buy contraband form this NPC. The bar owner gets a kickback. All of this would be done with our avatars.
The player with the contraband would then have to transport it to a special facility, in space, for making the new drugs. CONCORD, saying they are overextended with all this new activity, allows players to enforce the laws against the contraband via ship to ship combat.
Result: A way and reason for players to have establishments, avatars walking about and interacting, and a tie-in to spaceships.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29065
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 16:02:49 -
[1303] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Long ago, before we got the incarna expansion, CCP had several threads going:
A new generation of drugs. The first ( and, as it turned out the only) was Quafe zero. A way for players to make said drugs, that required buying contraband items while off the grid. The chronicle "Jita 4-4" shows the idea. A way for other players to enforce the law against those who are trying to transport contraband. The current Crimewatch system is the result.
The entire system was never described. But here is my guess of how it might work. One player runs a bar. That player pays bribes to the station personel to look the other way. As a result, the bar becomes frequented by an NPC. Other players can buy contraband form this NPC. The bar owner gets a kickback. All of this would be done with our avatars.
The player with the contraband would then have to transport it to a special facility, in space, for making the new drugs. CONCORD, saying they are overextended with all this new activity, allows players to enforce the laws against the contraband via ship to ship combat.
Result: A way and reason for players to have establishments, avatars walking about and interacting, and a tie-in to spaceships. And the most bought drug in such a scenario would be .......
... space viagra.
No kidding.
Alex Grison > If there was a bipartisan bill supporting cannabis use for arthritic pain, it would be Joint support for Joint support for joint support
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7230
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 16:07:09 -
[1304] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Long ago, before we got the incarna expansion, CCP had several threads going:
A new generation of drugs. The first ( and, as it turned out the only) was Quafe zero. A way for players to make said drugs, that required buying contraband items while off the grid. The chronicle "Jita 4-4" shows the idea. A way for other players to enforce the law against those who are trying to transport contraband. The current Crimewatch system is the result.
The entire system was never described. But here is my guess of how it might work. One player runs a bar. That player pays bribes to the station personel to look the other way. As a result, the bar becomes frequented by an NPC. Other players can buy contraband form this NPC. The bar owner gets a kickback. All of this would be done with our avatars.
The player with the contraband would then have to transport it to a special facility, in space, for making the new drugs. CONCORD, saying they are overextended with all this new activity, allows players to enforce the laws against the contraband via ship to ship combat.
Result: A way and reason for players to have establishments, avatars walking about and interacting, and a tie-in to spaceships.
Now see, personally, for me, this kind of well thought out content sells me on it. If it's just because someone wants to show of their outfit, and outfit that literally everyone else has access to, then I just don't care enough for that. But actual immersive gameplay allowing for player-generated emergent content, that I can get on board for.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7230
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 16:13:14 -
[1305] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. It's a little more complicated than that. The rundown... - CCP spent more than a year developing it - While developing it, CCP basically ignored a whole bunch of "little" problems and imbalances throughout the game - the half-joking phrase " in 18 months" was coined from the above points (because that was how long we were told before CCP would get back to working on "other things") - CCP kept praising and hyping up WiS (Walking in Station) - Everyone hated the Dramiel. - The Captain's Quarters was finally released. ------ We got one room (Minmatar) and no access to the rest of the station (because no content had actually been made). ------ It was both buggy and a major resource hog (some video cards overheated) ------ The Captain's Quarters was "not optional." In fact... the original station view was removed entirely. If you disabled the Captains Quarters you would be given a static image of your ship in the hanger (see: no station spinning). ------ The Captain's Quarters was revealed mostly to be a R&D thing for the future... and players were all being used as "beta-testers." - Microtransactions were introduced. ------ The Microtransaction items costed way more than "micro-amounts" (there was a Monocle that costed about $70 USD in PLEX... shirts and pants were no better). - A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game). - Players revolted. ------ The forums were filled with flames and rage and ranting. ------ A "substantial" amount of players threatened to unsubscribe (I think it was 10% of the total playerbase) ------ Players went to Jita and began to shoot at a monument indefinitely to show their discontent. - CCP stayed stubbornly (and infuriatingly) silent about the whole thing. ------ The CSM was requested by CCP to come to Iceland and talk about the situation. - When CCP made their first public statement about the whole thing they attempted to rationalize it. ------ Players got angrier. - CCP acquiesced. ------- An apology was written by CCP's CEO himself (though, there are rumors that it may have been ghostwritten). ------- Players were promised that "gold ammo" type items would never become a thing. Microtransactions would be limited strictly to "vanity" stuff or things that were already available in some form (basically, "lateral benefits") ------- A new hanger view was made... just like the old one. ------- Captains Quarters view was made "optional." ------- CCP promised to refocus their efforts on space related stuff and work on all the "little things" that players had been basically begging for for almost 2 years. - CCP silently put WiS on the backburner. - The Crucible Expansion was released 6 months later. - Players rejoice. - Many "little" things are fixed and/or polished. - Some interesting things are introduced (i.e. Attack Battlecruisers) - Some old favorites were brought back (i.e. engine trails) - The current ship rebalancing efforts more or less started here. - Subscriptions hit an all time high (at the time). - Today... ------ WiS still brings up some bad memories. ------ It probably IS being worked on... somewhere in the background. ------ the biggest problem (that I see) is making it fit into the larger EVE universe without taking away from the space part of it. TLDR; Walking in Station was delayed/shelved due to a whole combination of events (poor planning, poor investments, poor execution, poor public relations) that led to an explosion of frustration among the playerbase (which had been building for some time). People are still sensitive about the whole thing.
Your post reminded me that this exists. Sounds can be a bit meh in some places, but overall it's quite well-made and worth watching.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
121
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 16:28:46 -
[1306] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Legion died? That's what it appears. It's actually something we found a while back and have discussed to death on the Dust 514 forums by this point. It was at least 4-5 months ago, maybe more. It's part of why we started #portDust514 in an attempt to try and get them to talk about what they're doing right now. Dare I say that was rather half assed work you did there... Not you, personally, but in general. The social media campaign or the check of the US Patent Office?
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
sirxazor
B-T-G
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 20:40:22 -
[1307] - Quote
lul, you want eve to stay up when other upcoming games (2016) will be released with full walkable ships planets stations insert anything else?
it will only get worse from here (2016) on. Atmospheric flight says hello too.
shoulda though about this when you still had a chance (2012) 4 years of planning...
oh well, good luck with your declining players online game :D |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29147
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 20:49:40 -
[1308] - Quote
sirxazor wrote:lul, you want eve to stay up when other upcoming games (2016) will be released with full walkable ships planets stations insert anything else?
it will only get worse from here (2016) on. Atmospheric flight says hello too.
shoulda though about this when you still had a chance (2012) 4 years of planning...
oh well, good luck with your declining players online game :D I'm not sure you really are how you pretend to be ... ... but that doesn't matter.
What you don't get is that if EVE had these features as well ... ... the other games wouldn't actually get very far.
I doubt you understand what our game is actually about ... ... and rate games based on "WOAH LOOK AT THAT".
Until you get bored, because it's all generic gameplay anyway.
And then you come back.
And keep bitching.
Alex Grison > If there was a bipartisan bill supporting cannabis use for arthritic pain, it would be Joint support for Joint support for joint support
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29147
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 20:54:21 -
[1309] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Solecist Project wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Legion died? That's what it appears. It's actually something we found a while back and have discussed to death on the Dust 514 forums by this point. It was at least 4-5 months ago, maybe more. It's part of why we started #portDust514 in an attempt to try and get them to talk about what they're doing right now. Dare I say that was rather half assed work you did there... Not you, personally, but in general. The social media campaign or the check of the US Patent Office? The former. I'd like take a deeper look at this.
Do you have any links for me to check what you guys have been doing? :D
Alex Grison > If there was a bipartisan bill supporting cannabis use for arthritic pain, it would be Joint support for Joint support for joint support
|
sirxazor
B-T-G
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 20:55:56 -
[1310] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:sirxazor wrote:lul, you want eve to stay up when other upcoming games (2016) will be released with full walkable ships planets stations insert anything else?
it will only get worse from here (2016) on. Atmospheric flight says hello too.
shoulda though about this when you still had a chance (2012) 4 years of planning...
oh well, good luck with your declining players online game :D I'm not sure you really are how you pretend to be ... ... but that doesn't matter. What you don't get is that if EVE had these features as well ... ... the other games wouldn't actually get very far. I doubt you understand what our game is actually about ... ... and rate games based on "WOAH LOOK AT THAT". Until you get bored, because it's all generic gameplay anyway. And then you come back. And keep bitching. Keep being in denial, I am sure when you only see 1000 players online at all times because everyone else is playing a game in which you can actually move around inside your ship, planets, stations, SPACE, shoot each other with guns, board other players / steal their **** you too will eventually leave :D
|
|
Khergit Deserters
Garoun Investment Bank
4309
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 21:09:53 -
[1311] - Quote
Action Nerd wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:WiS needs a purpose. No-one has yet given it an actual gameplay purpose that is sensible and fits in with the rest of the universe. The closest that ever came was the idea about exploring wrecks, but then there is the hugely awkward question about what happens to your ship in the mean time.
Frankly the 'single character, multiple games' idea they floated ages back tied in with a PC port of Dust is by far and away the best way forward for 'WiS' that allows meaningful gameplay if Dust was then expanded with additional PvE layers involving more than quick death matches. Pub brawls! So that we can get at the folks that hide in station during wardecs. Other than that.... I got nothing. Problem is, you can't punch them if they hide out in the high sec section of the station. Well, you can get a couple of punches in, but then the station police will come beat you down. The only other way is to try to taunt or shame the avatar into accepting a duel request. Then you can brawl all you want.
You're trying to conquer me
You never will conquer me
-Delroy Wilson
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
1704
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 21:49:06 -
[1312] - Quote
Why brawls? WIS initially was planned as glorified lobby, with CQ, bars, shops and some kind of strategic table game and meeting room. At least all of that was in trailers and demos.
Avatar exploration demo was later. It was planned to make it dangerous, sites with open PvP.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
265
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 04:22:13 -
[1313] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls?
So they can get to those that don't leave the station.
Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that.
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42469
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 04:30:57 -
[1314] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? So they can get to those that don't leave the station. Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that. If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else.
That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33139
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:10:01 -
[1315] - Quote
I'm just proud to be on page 1 of this thread.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
122
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:20:48 -
[1316] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? So they can get to those that don't leave the station. Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that. If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else. That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development. Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait.
I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
265
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:22:16 -
[1317] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? So they can get to those that don't leave the station. Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that. If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else. That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development. Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait. I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation.
Forum bug, one character can be red, grey and blue all on the same day. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42474
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:25:02 -
[1318] - Quote
Avvy wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? So they can get to those that don't leave the station. Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that. If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else. That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development. Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait. I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation. Forum bug, one character can be red, grey and blue all on the same day. I'm sometimes red to myself.
That's probably correct though.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
122
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:27:52 -
[1319] - Quote
Avvy wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? So they can get to those that don't leave the station. Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that. If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else. That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development. Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait. I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation. Forum bug, one character can be red, grey and blue all on the same day. Ah, thank you. It actually seems to have gone away now.
Back on the topic of the thread, as a long-time Dust 514 player and someone who got into it back in the second wave of the Closed Beta, I always hoped Walking-in-Stations would eventually be the means where EVE and Dust characters could share social areas and directly interact.
Obviously the gameplay of both games would always be rather divorced considering one involves being on the ground and the other in space, but I was always hopeful I'd one day be able to drop some orbital strikes for some Dust 514 players and then meet up with them in a bar in a station for after-battle drinks.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33140
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:39:46 -
[1320] - Quote
This thread is group therapy where everyone shares their disappointment to get it out.
Welcome, MidnightWyvern.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42476
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:41:35 -
[1321] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:This thread is group therapy where everyone shares their disappointment to get it out.
Welcome, MidnightWyvern. Yeah I'm disappointed he no longer has me blue.
What did I do to be reset?
I hope the door opens one day. I'll go find him.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
122
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:51:33 -
[1322] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:This thread is group therapy where everyone shares their disappointment to get it out.
Welcome, MidnightWyvern. Yeah, this thread is basically the entirety of General Discussion on the Dust 514 forums right now.
I think what really gets me is hanging out with friends on campus and showing them the Future Vision trailer and all the work-in-progress WiS stuff and how many people said they were excited to get into the game. And then it never actually happened.
It seems like Valkyrie is going to have some kind of avatar-based social spaces, though, based on the artwork in the EVE: Universe art book. I'm just hoping they eventually decide to revisit their decision to cancel WiS and bring it back as a social area for all their games to intermingle.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33141
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 07:14:10 -
[1323] - Quote
The best chance at winning hearts and minds are other games that feature avatar gameplay. I want to be as nice as possible buuut sometimes it's fear and competition that's needed. EVE would have been a frontrunner if it happened the first time around.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2451
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 07:15:34 -
[1324] - Quote
I have a dream
It would be so cool if we could leave our CQ and then walk into Dust social areas. If we have a Dust account we could "swop" games and just go out shooting with them.
After that, then we have things like deploying them against people's PI, towers, stations and defending those things. Them needing our ships to move systems ... (and the ability to jettison them)
... and just imagine if we could invite some dude into our CQ then turn our ship around and blow them away?!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33141
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 07:16:39 -
[1325] - Quote
I would prefer stuffing them down the trash compactor chute
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2451
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 07:17:42 -
[1326] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I would prefer stuffing them down the trash compactor chute Fire them out as "flares", ignite their power backs and take out approaching bombs or missiles!!!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33141
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 08:40:53 -
[1327] - Quote
power backs is actually my signature move in bed
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29259
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 11:59:05 -
[1328] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:power backs is actually my signature move in bed Could you elaborate on that?
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29259
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 12:07:05 -
[1329] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? WIS initially was planned as glorified lobby, with CQ, bars, shops and some kind of strategic table game and meeting room. At least all of that was in trailers and demos.
Avatar exploration demo was later. It was planned to make it dangerous, sites with open PvP. And a girl pulling a gun.
See that EVE trailer... Forever? Future visions? I don't even recall, but it was right at the end.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
126
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 14:43:33 -
[1330] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? WIS initially was planned as glorified lobby, with CQ, bars, shops and some kind of strategic table game and meeting room. At least all of that was in trailers and demos.
Avatar exploration demo was later. It was planned to make it dangerous, sites with open PvP. And a girl pulling a gun. See that EVE trailer... Forever? Future visions? I don't even recall, but it was right at the end. I always imagined it kind of like DeusEx: Human Revolution or something. The ability to shoot people in the face, but without being focused on that. Mainly a social/spy type experience.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29271
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 15:21:55 -
[1331] - Quote
Never played that.
WiS would be useless without combat elements. They're needed, to keep the weak in check.
Just imagine the hoardS of cowards chestbeating from the safety of their station. Yeah we have that now already, but only with limited gameplay options.
And now imagine what happens when these bears ever undock...
The outcry would be marvellous!
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Hauler Joe
Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union
4
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 15:35:15 -
[1332] - Quote
Cahir Ceallach wrote:Maybe WIS is back, in this year we have 10 expansion in the year :)
the expansion is call Star Citizen
Capitals are dead
Battleships are dead
CCP killed them.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
1713
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 15:42:16 -
[1333] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? WIS initially was planned as glorified lobby, with CQ, bars, shops and some kind of strategic table game and meeting room. At least all of that was in trailers and demos.
Avatar exploration demo was later. It was planned to make it dangerous, sites with open PvP. And a girl pulling a gun. See that EVE trailer... Forever? Future visions? I don't even recall, but it was right at the end. Yes, it was in station. But it was exception like this Raven with laser guns shooting a planet. I actually recall CCP Torfifrans explaining that these station environments would be without agression mechanics. Amd ;ater he wrote on the forums that Avatar exploration had been imagined as dangerous with pvp mechanics.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
7923
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 15:53:13 -
[1334] - Quote
Le Sigh.. 'Tis this thread again.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
126
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 15:57:43 -
[1335] - Quote
Hauler Joe wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:Maybe WIS is back, in this year we have 10 expansion in the year :) the expansion is call Star Citizen When they finally finish it, maybe.
It should be kept in mind that they've stated earlier their instancing cap will likely still be around 100 players, so I'd hardly say that game is a threat to EVE Online.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29277
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 16:20:15 -
[1336] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Hauler Joe wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:Maybe WIS is back, in this year we have 10 expansion in the year :) the expansion is call Star Citizen When they finally finish it, maybe. It should be kept in mind that they've stated earlier their instancing cap will likely still be around 100 players, so I'd hardly say that game is a threat to EVE Online. ONE HUNDRED! All at the same place! That's INSANE! What a technological achievement!
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33146
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 18:09:21 -
[1337] - Quote
It totally sucks that only 100 people can show up and board each other's ships and have firefights on board.
Or we could be honest and say damn, that's pretty cool they can board each other's ships and have firefights.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33146
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 18:10:20 -
[1338] - Quote
Valkyrie arenas only have what, 20 players max so does that mean valkyrie sucks too?
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29287
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 18:30:47 -
[1339] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Valkyrie arenas only have what, 20 players max so does that mean valkyrie sucks too? No, because the comparison is invalid. SC is a completely different type of game.
The point is that people here somehow believe SC is comparable to EVE, which it isn't really either. It is in no way or form even close and only shares the fact that it's in ******* space.
I take the invalid comparison and make fun of it.
Thanks for ruining it, Rain. :P
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2202
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 18:33:29 -
[1340] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Valkyrie arenas only have what, 20 players max so does that mean valkyrie sucks too? No, because the comparison is invalid. SC is a completely different type of game. The point is that people here somehow believe SC is comparable to EVE, which it isn't really either. It is in no way or form even close and only shares the fact that it's in ******* space. I take the invalid comparison and make fun of it. Thanks for ruining it, Rain. :P
That signature though...
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29290
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 18:38:50 -
[1341] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Valkyrie arenas only have what, 20 players max so does that mean valkyrie sucks too? No, because the comparison is invalid. SC is a completely different type of game. The point is that people here somehow believe SC is comparable to EVE, which it isn't really either. It is in no way or form even close and only shares the fact that it's in ******* space. I take the invalid comparison and make fun of it. Thanks for ruining it, Rain. :P That signature though...
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Tristan Agion
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 18:41:18 -
[1342] - Quote
I've read only the first 25 pages of this thread... so excuse me if I repeat a suggestion already made.
But why not simply crowdfund WiS development?
Set a target of US$1M, or whatever would be enough to get something meaningful done, and see whether it flies on kickstarter.
WiS supporters could put their money where their mouth is. And those disinterested in WiS would not need to worry about it cannibalising other EVE development. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29293
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 19:00:20 -
[1343] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:I've read only the first 25 pages of this thread... so excuse me if I repeat a suggestion already made.
But why not simply crowdfund WiS development?
Set a target of US$1M, or whatever would be enough to get something meaningful done, and see whether it flies on kickstarter.
WiS supporters could put their money where their mouth is. And those disinterested in WiS would not need to worry about it cannibalising other EVE development. But but but they can't pay kickstarter with ISK...
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4510
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 19:06:52 -
[1344] - Quote
i wonder how well a crowdfunding campaign for a product a company has previously bungled and written off would go |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4510
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 19:12:26 -
[1345] - Quote
in seriousness i imagine there's a lack of capability and willingness on ccp's part. it's not just a matter of cash |
Tristan Agion
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 19:29:29 -
[1346] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:in seriousness i imagine there's a lack of capability and willingness on ccp's part. it's not just a matter of cash If you have the cash, then you can hire the capability and willingness.
This stuff isn't exactly cutting edge nowadays, isn't it? In particular not if you start with non-combat, social interactions where you do not have to worry about millisecond timings, rag doll physics, etc. I have a hard time believing that CCP would struggle finding relevant talent to hire.
It seems to me that crowdfunding would largely take away the financial risk for CCP, and it would legitimise such development in view of the past - since obviously it then would be a development wanted by the all those EVE players chipping in.
And we could finally gauge just how many EVE players find this important enough to pay a significant amount of money for it. If such a kickstarter over-funds to several million dollars, then that's a clear sign. If it fails with just a few thousand dollars, then that is also a clear sign. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29295
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 19:33:32 -
[1347] - Quote
Ha! I know the perfect name for such a crowdfunded expansion!
.... wait for it ...
EVE ONLINE: Star Citizen.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13239
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 19:57:48 -
[1348] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:in seriousness i imagine there's a lack of capability and willingness on ccp's part. it's not just a matter of cash
Along with the fact that EVE is old and full of 'spaghetti code' and thus a really bad candidate for 'rigging stuff onto'.
That being said, I'd love to see a kickstarter for this. It would shut up the WiS fringe one way or another.
It won't happen, the kinds of people who want to see WiS (or other 'mass appeal' type things to 'bring in more people') are the kind of folks who think "well, that's CCPs job to give us stuff, not mine".
|
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
220
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 20:11:50 -
[1349] - Quote
I belive that CCP might begin thinking of making EVE 2.0 and transfer all players assest to the New game... then apply WiS there.
As now, EVE is now a old game....which aint attracting new players in nearly same amount as before. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9746
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 20:27:28 -
[1350] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Just imagine the hoardS of cowards chestbeating from the safety of their station.
Seems like EVE as usual, to me.
At any given time in any area of space, you'll find thousands of cowards chestbeating from the safety of their station. The only difference is they're sitting just inside docking range instead of in the actual station. Even then, there are thousands more harassing in local that will never undock and engage in combat.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike WIS but what you said is not one of them.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
|
Tristan Agion
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 20:45:22 -
[1351] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:That being said, I'd love to see a kickstarter for this. It would shut up the WiS fringe one way or another. It won't happen, the kinds of people who want to see WiS (or other 'mass appeal' type things to 'bring in more people') are the kind of folks who think "well, that's CCPs job to give us stuff, not mine".
To be fair, I don't think anybody but CCP could actually kickstart a direct software expansion of EVE. Even if there were no legal issues (and unless CCP grants explicit permission, there very much would be), then it would still make no sense to have development for EVE with no connection to CCP. And nobody is going to cowdfund a campaign which says "if successful, we will take this money to CCP and ask nicely whether they would be willing to do something with it."
However, CCP could easily run a very nice kickstarter campaign. They certainly know how to make a nice advertisement trailer, they could easily offer a range of game-related or even game-internal rewards, and they obviously have all the necessary rights to the software assets.
In fact, quite apart from this particular case WiS, I think semi-regular kickstarter campaigns might be a nice way for CCP to develop specific side projects that players request. I'm sure people can think of other things in EVE that "need to be done"... |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29325
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 20:52:04 -
[1352] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:That being said, I'd love to see a kickstarter for this. It would shut up the WiS fringe one way or another. It won't happen, the kinds of people who want to see WiS (or other 'mass appeal' type things to 'bring in more people') are the kind of folks who think "well, that's CCPs job to give us stuff, not mine".
To be fair, I don't think anybody but CCP could actually kickstart a direct software expansion of EVE. Even if there were no legal issues (and unless CCP grants explicit permission, there very much would be), then it would still make no sense to have development for EVE with no connection to CCP. And nobody is going to cowdfund a campaign which says "if successful, we will take this money to CCP and ask nicely whether they would be willing to do something with it." However, CCP could easily run a very nice kickstarter campaign. They certainly know how to make a nice advertisement trailer, they could easily offer a range of game-related or even game-internal rewards, and they obviously have all the necessary rights to the software assets. In fact, quite apart from this particular case WiS, I think semi-regular kickstarter campaigns might be a nice way for CCP to develop specific side projects that players request. I'm sure people can think of other things in EVE that "need to be done"... They could hire Chris Roberts to do it for them. Last I've heard he's pretty good at collecting money from idiots people.
Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly ...
Imagine a world in that people pay for a game that doesn't even exist yet. They throw all the money at the developer before, not after the product is finished. Imagine that! It would be ideal! No more wasted resources! People always only ever get what they want and no developer would have to be afraid of risking spending months/millions on something no one wants.
That sounds too good to be true, if you ask me....
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2451
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 21:08:31 -
[1353] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:If you have the cash, then you can hire the capability and willingness.
This stuff isn't exactly cutting edge nowadays, isn't it? In particular not if you start with non-combat, social interactions where you do not have to worry about millisecond timings, rag doll physics, etc. .... They are beyond that.
Dust is there.
All it needs is porting and adapting so that we can transition between EVE and Dust via Captain's Quarter's door.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Tristan Agion
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 21:52:38 -
[1354] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly .... FWIW, I have opened a dedicated thread for the general idea of kickstarting special developments over in the ideas section. I suggest to move the discussion there unless it's about something specific to kickstarting WiS. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2203
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 22:37:23 -
[1355] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly .... FWIW, I have opened a dedicated thread for the general idea of kickstarting special developments over in the ideas section. I suggest to move the discussion there unless it's about something specific to kickstarting WiS.
why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want? just because they dont do something that you want doesnt mean they are poor
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29366
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 22:55:49 -
[1356] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly .... FWIW, I have opened a dedicated thread for the general idea of kickstarting special developments over in the ideas section. I suggest to move the discussion there unless it's about something specific to kickstarting WiS. why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want? just because they dont do something that you want doesnt mean they are poor Irrelevant to his valid attempt, though. Critisize the idea, not the attempt...
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33147
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 23:03:44 -
[1357] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:I've read only the first 25 pages of this thread... so excuse me if I repeat a suggestion already made.
But why not simply crowdfund WiS development?
Set a target of US$1M, or whatever would be enough to get something meaningful done, and see whether it flies on kickstarter.
WiS supporters could put their money where their mouth is. And those disinterested in WiS would not need to worry about it cannibalising other EVE development. I made a Features and Ideas thread about this, and it was quickly locked for trolling.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17296
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 23:08:34 -
[1358] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:in seriousness i imagine there's a lack of capability and willingness on ccp's part. it's not just a matter of cash Along with the fact that EVE is old and full of 'spaghetti code' and thus a really bad candidate for 'rigging stuff onto'. That being said, I'd love to see a kickstarter for this. It would shut up the WiS fringe one way or another. It won't happen, the kinds of people who want to see WiS (or other 'mass appeal' type things to 'bring in more people') are the kind of folks who think "well, that's CCPs job to give us stuff, not mine".
EVE is much less full of spaghetti code than it used to be. The refactoring project started in 2011, and each expansion after Crucible was based around refactoring a feature code block; Crimewatch, Faction Warfare, Science & Industry, Structures etc. The latest refactoring was or is the Dogma code (headlined with the Brain In A Box project). There are still some very big bowls of pasta left, I think (eg: NPCs, the Corp/Alliance code), but more has been done than remains to do.
But which features would a hypothetical WiS project need to interect with? Well existing NPCs, not so much, sure. But the Corp/alliance code? Yeah quite probably.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29366
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 23:09:32 -
[1359] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:I've read only the first 25 pages of this thread... so excuse me if I repeat a suggestion already made.
But why not simply crowdfund WiS development?
Set a target of US$1M, or whatever would be enough to get something meaningful done, and see whether it flies on kickstarter.
WiS supporters could put their money where their mouth is. And those disinterested in WiS would not need to worry about it cannibalising other EVE development. I made a Features and Ideas thread about this, and it was quickly locked for trolling. *takes glasses off*
One could say, they've ...
*puts glasses back on*
... rained upon you.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33149
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 23:25:14 -
[1360] - Quote
It's good to have you back sol
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
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Khergit Deserters
Garoun Investment Bank
4317
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 23:41:36 -
[1361] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? So they can get to those that don't leave the station. Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that. If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else. That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development. Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait. I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation. I'm seeing some mysterious Excellent tags on portraits too. Bug thing?
By the way, if we get WiS, will our contacts' standings with us show over their heads? Blue plus sign over this guy, red minus sign over that one? Sort of like in FPSs? We need some kind of intel. I'd hate to accidentally buy a drink for a Goon. (JJ)
You're trying to conquer me
You never will conquer me
-Delroy Wilson
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33153
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 23:47:36 -
[1362] - Quote
as if we wouldn't create a hangout called the greater fool bar in some buttcrack corner of EVE.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29370
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 23:49:41 -
[1363] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:It's good to have you back sol I don't believe that, though I appreciate the good will behind the lie... :)
I've resubbed for thirty days ... ... twenty-seven days ago.
Unlike Indah can't I be hooked by generic content and hauling isn't my thing either ... ... but as of tomorrow can I fly a Sabre ... ... so maybe I will add another 30 days.
Ya know ... we sell children magazines with crap in them and ... and once I've found one with a soap bubble thingy. So l took it, went outside onto the street and filled the air ... and the streets ... the whole crossing with a bus driving through ... with shiny little bubbles everyone admired and smiled at, because people love soap bubbles! They make people happy! :D
And not a single car crash happened either. ^_^
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Pix Severus
Mew Age Outpaws
1698
|
Posted - 2015.12.31 00:19:18 -
[1364] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote: Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait.
I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation.
I'm seeing some mysterious Excellent tags on portraits too. Bug thing?
Known bug, at least it was when I first noticed it years ago.
I swear I was once blue to myself on these forums too, must mean I was being excellent to myself.
My lord.
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Tristan Agion
Viziam Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2015.12.31 01:39:29 -
[1365] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want? I don't really know, but yes, it all seems a bit understaffed and under-resourced to me. And in consequence of that, I wouldn't be surprised if some technical know-how was also lacking here or there. (That's not meant a an insult to any of these professionals, but would simply be a consequence of the level of specialisation typical in software creation.)
Mind you, for me that's all based on anecdotal data. For example, it seems like there is one guy only working on the new probe scanner. Or I hear someone mentioning that there are only two artists now working on apparel (and skins?). That sort of thing... |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7285
|
Posted - 2015.12.31 22:14:00 -
[1366] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:Lan Wang wrote:why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want? I don't really know, but yes, it all seems a bit understaffed and under-resourced to me. And in consequence of that, I wouldn't be surprised if some technical know-how was also lacking here or there. (That's not meant a an insult to any of these professionals, but would simply be a consequence of the level of specialisation typical in software creation.) Mind you, for me that's all based on anecdotal data. For example, it seems like there is one guy only working on the new probe scanner. Or I hear someone mentioning that there are only two artists now working on apparel (and skins?). That sort of thing...
Do you know who it was that developed Carbon technology in the first place? The tragic irony of Incarna was that it was exceptional technology, but poorly implemented, and as a result, it's technology that's largely fallen by the wayside. They have the technical expertise already. They just got done making a FPS a few years ago, you know that right?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2204
|
Posted - 2015.12.31 22:35:55 -
[1367] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:Lan Wang wrote:why do you want to kickstart things? do you think ccp dont have the knowledge and money to make the game how they want? I don't really know, but yes, it all seems a bit understaffed and under-resourced to me. And in consequence of that, I wouldn't be surprised if some technical know-how was also lacking here or there. (That's not meant a an insult to any of these professionals, but would simply be a consequence of the level of specialisation typical in software creation.) Mind you, for me that's all based on anecdotal data. For example, it seems like there is one guy only working on the new probe scanner. Or I hear someone mentioning that there are only two artists now working on apparel (and skins?). That sort of thing...
how many people do you think they need to be working on things like this, do they need 10 people to work on a probe scanner?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
1729
|
Posted - 2015.12.31 23:54:42 -
[1368] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:I've read only the first 25 pages of this thread... so excuse me if I repeat a suggestion already made.
But why not simply crowdfund WiS development?
Set a target of US$1M, or whatever would be enough to get something meaningful done, and see whether it flies on kickstarter.
WiS supporters could put their money where their mouth is. And those disinterested in WiS would not need to worry about it cannibalising other EVE development. I made a Features and Ideas thread about this, and it was quickly locked for trolling. They obviously dont want to go into that river second time, even when the river isnt the same and first time only their ankles were wet.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
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Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 00:58:37 -
[1369] - Quote
The question about walking in stations is not about if it can be made, or if it should be made instead of something else, but what kind of gameplay can it offer to people who mostly play EvE to shoot each other in space ships.
At this moment the captain quarters are nothing more than a gloried side menu, as everything you can do in it can be done already with a few click in the ship hangar.
And what if you could do see the other pilot docked in your station? In which way would you interact with them? Would you build station interiors and re optimize the old code just to /wave at your corp mates and do a /rude gesture at someone from an opposing corp? Or make your character run to the market interface while you can simply click it in the ship hangar?
I think all of us signed up for a game where spaceships kill other spaceships, loot other spaceships, build spaceships, mine asteroid and gas with spaceships and harvest tears thanks to the spaceships. No one signed up for second life in space.
However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others.
Sorry for my usual long posts, but I've some people in contact list I keep only to see how their avatar will look today, people like solecist at example. |
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1042
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 01:54:32 -
[1370] - Quote
Please people stop digging up old threats. The issue is already been solve long time ago. Stop debating on subjects there are no interesting in its current state. |
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Pix Severus
Mew Age Outpaws
1737
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 04:04:38 -
[1371] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others.
Many of us feel that since there has been so much work put into the avatar system and captains quarters already, a push towards towards a single, communal room in each station isn't so much to ask.
We could use it to show off our avatars and roleplay, and the benefits to CCP as the demand for apparel increases would be very much worth it financially.
This is a very contestious issue, however, and it likely will never happen, that I admit, and concede to, reluctantly.
My lord.
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3735
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 04:37:01 -
[1372] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others. Many of us feel that since there has been so much work put into the avatar system and captains quarters already, a push towards towards a single, communal room in each station isn't so much to ask. We could use it to show off our avatars and roleplay, and the benefits to CCP as the demand for apparel increases would be very much worth it financially. This is a very contentious issue, however, and it likely will never happen, that I admit, and concede to, reluctantly. At one time, CCP said that a communal room is almost as much work as something with relevant gameplay attached. My guess is there is quite a bit of coding needed before there can be multiple avatars in one area. So CCP will not do it, until there is a big reason to do so.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Asura Vajrarupa
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
62
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 04:42:53 -
[1373] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others. Many of us feel that since there has been so much work put into the avatar system and captains quarters already, a push towards towards a single, communal room in each station isn't so much to ask. We could use it to show off our avatars and roleplay, and the benefits to CCP as the demand for apparel increases would be very much worth it financially. This is a very contestious issue, however, and it likely will never happen, that I admit, and concede to, reluctantly.
My guess is that they are waiting for meat memories to fade and machine performance to increase.
Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
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Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
793
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 06:43:44 -
[1374] - Quote
It is a shame; [My Avatar] Standing there looking out at my Rattlesnake in the hangar is pretty nice. Just a shame it is such a resource hog and takes so long to load.
In "Ship Hangar" view, I can dock reship check ammo and drones and undock - All before a 2nd character loads Captains Quarters.
One day, maybe
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29531
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 10:09:18 -
[1375] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others. Many of us feel that since there has been so much work put into the avatar system and captains quarters already, a push towards towards a single, communal room in each station isn't so much to ask. We could use it to show off our avatars and roleplay, and the benefits to CCP as the demand for apparel increases would be very much worth it financially. This is a very contestious issue, however, and it likely will never happen, that I admit, and concede to, reluctantly. Awww come on, no one wants more clothes anyway. It's all about redditfags and skins now.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 11:00:52 -
[1376] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: Though, you *are* right. The idea is interesting. Has that actually been done before? I mean, a company having a running product, starting a kickstarter for a specific expansion of it. I do wonder if that'll make their lawyers jump out of the window, though. Not sure this wouldn't set some very odd precedent and suddenly ...
Imagine a world in that people pay for a game that doesn't even exist yet. They throw all the money at the developer before, not after the product is finished. Imagine that! It would be ideal! No more wasted resources! People always only ever get what they want and no developer would have to be afraid of risking spending months/millions on something no one wants.
That sounds too good to be true, if you ask me....
Something like it has been done for at least one single player games I have played and know of. People wanted an old school RPG (Baldur-¦s gate , iceind dale style). Obsidian did not think that it was worth the money. So some of the people at Obsidian started a kickstarter campaign and made "Pillars of Eternity". A game where the development were paid for by the people who wanted to play it. Otherwise it would never have been made. It was a candidate for best RPG in 2015 at the gaming awards, so it was largely succesful. I don't see why this could not be adapted to MMOs (outsie of the " I am already paying for EVE" argument) and WIS in EVE specifically. One could of course fear what slippery slope this might start if one were so inclined (you want new ships? donate to our kickstarter). |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29533
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 11:23:32 -
[1377] - Quote
That's a seperate game, though, and not an addition to an already running one...
A game were the people decide what gets done next ... ... simply by throwing money at the developer ... ... won't last long at all.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Tristan Agion
Viziam Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 12:03:17 -
[1378] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:I think all of us signed up for a game where spaceships kill other spaceships, loot other spaceships, build spaceships, mine asteroid and gas with spaceships and harvest tears thanks to the spaceships. No one signed up for second life in space. This dichotomy is often repeated here, but remains simply false! A game can have more than one aspect to it, and people can play games for more than one reason. In fact, EVE is already more a fusion of several games than just a space shooter. Personally, what I really like about EVE is that it feels largely "real", believable as an alternate SF reality. For example, that there is a production chain for space ships, and a player-driven market for it, is just great. That feels much more "realistic" then say a menu where you can unlock a spaceship if you have enough "points", or the like.
Likewise, I really like having highly detailed avatars. My avatar is to me not just some random placeholder, for all intents and purposes I identify with that avatar - not for example with the ship I'm flying. If someone asked me "where are you in the game?", I would not point to my Anathema, I would load up the captain's quarter and point at my avatar. That is "me", the ship is - when all is said and done - just what I fly around in game.
I disagree with people who claim that EVE is not about "immersion". It very much is about immersion, just so far mostly with regards to "game mechanics". Every EVE player builds up this large network in their head of how this world works. For example, to decide whether it is worth buying those Sister's probes and transporting them to a trade hub, you need to know all sorts of things - how these are used, where they would be bought, how you would get there without dying, how this compares with other things you could do in ISK/hour, etc. That is immersion. EVE is very much not just a "PVP for spaceships" simulator - and players who are mainly look for that (fine with me, by the way) still have to deal with other aspects of the game regularly in order to do that. They will then say that they have a mining or trading alt to finance their PVP habit.
So building up more "social mechanics" around the avatar is to me simply a straightforward extension of what EVE already is. It will make the world more believable, and for some it may even become their main deal (and that's perfectly fine, just like some people just trade in EVE). Some others may avoid this almost completely (and that's perfectly fine, just like some people never mine in EVE). For most of us, it would become another thing to have fun with in EVE. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17298
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 14:00:41 -
[1379] - Quote
CCP starting, or at least partnering with, a kickstarter project is the only realistic chance of any extension of WiS IMO.
It addresses 2 of the biggest obstacles in the path of WiS: (1) CCP don't have the resources to spare and (2) even if they did, they could reasonably expect a lot of customer opposition to putting EVE dev resources into WiS instead of any of a number of other compelling priorities. The opportunity cost of a WIS project is very high.
A kickstarter or (kickstarter style) project would avoid both of those obstacles. No one can reasonably complain about resources being used to develop WiS if they're being paid for by the people that want it.
And as a final benefit, we would be able to see whether there really is substantial demand for WiS. At the moment, for all we know, it could be nothing more than a few argumentative diehards making a lot of noise. Or there could be a huge submerged iceberg of invisible demand. A Kickstarter would allow CCP (and us) to quantify that demand in real money terms. If it raises 3 million dollars in a fortnight, then great, CCP will certainly start at least looking at ways it might happen. If it only raises 3000 dollars then they can release special edition sandproof 'Kickstart' panties into the AUR store.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2206
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 14:06:22 -
[1380] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:CCP starting, or at least partnering with, a kickstarter project is the only realistic chance of any extension of WiS IMO.
It addresses 2 of the biggest obstacles in the path of WiS: (1) CCP don't have the resources to spare and (2) even if they did, they could reasonably expect a lot of customer opposition to putting EVE dev resources into WiS instead of any of a number of other compelling priorities. The opportunity cost of a WIS project is very high.
A kickstarter or (kickstarter style) project would avoid both of those obstacles. No one can reasonably complain about resources being used to develop WiS if they're being paid for by the people that want it.
And as a final benefit, we would be able to see whether there really is substantial demand for WiS. At the moment, for all we know, it could be nothing more than a few argumentative diehards making a lot of noise. Or there could be a huge submerged iceberg of invisible demand. A Kickstarter would allow CCP (and us) to quantify that demand in real money terms. If it raises 3 million dollars in a fortnight, then great, CCP will certainly start at least looking at ways it might happen. If it only raises 3000 dollars then they can release special edition sandproof 'Kickstart' panties into the AUR store.
it also releases another problem, if developers know they can get money from players to fund projects then where does it end? we will be funding lots of silly things and players will just get angry when they dont get what they want and have paid money towards it, kickstarters and early access are just cancer
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17298
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 14:19:26 -
[1381] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Malcanis wrote:CCP starting, or at least partnering with, a kickstarter project is the only realistic chance of any extension of WiS IMO.
It addresses 2 of the biggest obstacles in the path of WiS: (1) CCP don't have the resources to spare and (2) even if they did, they could reasonably expect a lot of customer opposition to putting EVE dev resources into WiS instead of any of a number of other compelling priorities. The opportunity cost of a WIS project is very high.
A kickstarter or (kickstarter style) project would avoid both of those obstacles. No one can reasonably complain about resources being used to develop WiS if they're being paid for by the people that want it.
And as a final benefit, we would be able to see whether there really is substantial demand for WiS. At the moment, for all we know, it could be nothing more than a few argumentative diehards making a lot of noise. Or there could be a huge submerged iceberg of invisible demand. A Kickstarter would allow CCP (and us) to quantify that demand in real money terms. If it raises 3 million dollars in a fortnight, then great, CCP will certainly start at least looking at ways it might happen. If it only raises 3000 dollars then they can release special edition sandproof 'Kickstart' panties into the AUR store. it also releases another problem, if developers know they can get money from players to fund projects then where does it end? we will be funding lots of silly things and players will just get angry when they dont get what they want and have paid money towards it, kickstarters and early access are just cancer
Uh that ship sailed years ago. Developers already know that.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 15:25:48 -
[1382] - Quote
People speak of Kickstarers so lightheartedly, but kickstarters are a very dangerous tool for enstabilished developers as CCP, while for the same reason they can be the only hope of new developers.
First of all, Kickstarters have no obligation to deliver the final product, you are financing an idea. Of course if the developer created a kickstarter just to scam people, the backers can ask for their money back so if they took your money to buy a ferrari instead you can sue them.
But, taken from kickstarer terms of use
Quote: If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, theyGÇÖve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned; they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe thatGÇÖs communicated to backers; theyGÇÖre able to demonstrate that theyGÇÖve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised; theyGÇÖve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
In short, if CCP make a kickstarter promising walk in station, with everything and more people wished for, and at the end of the project you get anything less what they promised, you have an edge to ask for a refound, and assuming their reason for not reaching all the goals was satisfing enough to not go into a refound, they will lose their face to the gaming world.
Even worse, for incarna they got a true uprising of the gamers, and the monocle gate and subsequent dev blog about someone's 150 dollars pants is something very hard to forget, do you think they want to add a kickstarter gate now after almost two years of hard work to put their name back on track? I've to give something to CCP, i've seen more things done in the last years with ccp seagull on top than in the last 12, but those stains on their reputation are going to stay for good.
I trust them in their work, I want to trust them with the Citadel expansion, I've high hopes, but on the other side I'm not totally sure we are going to get those awesome "castles in the skyes" the dev blog promised. With this in mind I'm very cautious in talking about WiS, as you either plan it properly in terms of gameplay impact and value, or you are just wasting proper dev time.
Honestly, the best I'm hoping for EvE is a station like the one in X-Com, and that could go well along with the citadels, since you have just three kind of looks (M-L-XL, no faction variants, with modular interiors you just design the rooms and compose them on top of each others), you can give that kind of WiS a gameplay value by using the NPC we looted from wrecks for years instead of simply plugging in Rigs for doing stuff, you can see your character in it doing stuff and since they have a limit in how many are docked at once maybe you can see other avatar docked without risking to have 1500 docked people to render, like Jita 4-4. So yes, no WiS in npc stations but only in player owned citadels, call it... WiC? Walk in Citadels? Could be a thing. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17300
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 16:25:34 -
[1383] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:People speak of Kickstarers so lightheartedly, but kickstarters are a very dangerous tool for enstabilished developers as CCP, while for the same reason they can be the only hope of new developers. First of all, Kickstarters have no obligation to deliver the final product, you are financing an idea. Of course if the developer created a kickstarter just to scam people, the backers can ask for their money back so if they took your money to buy a ferrari instead you can sue them. But, taken from kickstarer terms of use Quote: If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, theyGÇÖve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned; they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe thatGÇÖs communicated to backers; theyGÇÖre able to demonstrate that theyGÇÖve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised; theyGÇÖve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form. In short, if CCP make a kickstarter promising walk in station, with everything and more people wished for, and at the end of the project you get anything less what they promised, you have an edge to ask for a refound, and assuming their reason for not reaching all the goals was satisfing enough to not go into a refound, they will lose their face to the gaming world. Even worse, for incarna they got a true uprising of the gamers, and the monocle gate and subsequent dev blog about someone's 150 dollars pants is something very hard to forget, do you think they want to add a kickstarter gate now after almost two years of hard work to put their name back on track? I've to give something to CCP, i've seen more things done in the last years with ccp seagull on top than in the last 12, but those stains on their reputation are going to stay for good. I trust them in their work, I want to trust them with the Citadel expansion, I've high hopes, but on the other side I'm not totally sure we are going to get those awesome "castles in the skyes" the dev blog promised. With this in mind I'm very cautious in talking about WiS, as you either plan it properly in terms of gameplay impact and value, or you are just wasting proper dev time. Honestly, the best I'm hoping for EvE is a station like the one in X-Com, and that could go well along with the citadels, since you have just three kind of looks (M-L-XL, no faction variants, with modular interiors you just design the rooms and compose them on top of each others), you can give that kind of WiS a gameplay value by using the NPC we looted from wrecks for years instead of simply plugging in Rigs for doing stuff, you can see your character in it doing stuff and since they have a limit in how many are docked at once maybe you can see other avatar docked without risking to have 1500 docked people to render, like Jita 4-4. So yes, no WiS in npc stations but only in player owned citadels, call it... WiC? Walk in Citadels? Could be a thing.
The highlighted section is an unfounded a priori. The hypothetical WiS kickstarter doesn't have to promise "everything and more people wished for". The core goal can be as straightforward as 'Update or create a working multiplayer avatar engine for EVE online', with everything else being a stretch goal for future expansion projects.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
7925
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 16:59:26 -
[1384] - Quote
LOL at those who think a keckstarter is going to fix anything.
CCP had plenty of money and plenty of Dev resources to deliver a meaningful WiS.
What they did not (and still do not) have is the vision or the proper management resources to pull it off. Suddenly having a bunch more "donated" money to throw around will not solve either fundamental problem.
What they needed was more pssssht, and project managers and leads who could actually articulate what that means while actually being in touch with their Dev teams.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
478
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 17:17:17 -
[1385] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Pix Severus wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others. Many of us feel that since there has been so much work put into the avatar system and captains quarters already, a push towards towards a single, communal room in each station isn't so much to ask. We could use it to show off our avatars and roleplay, and the benefits to CCP as the demand for apparel increases would be very much worth it financially. This is a very contentious issue, however, and it likely will never happen, that I admit, and concede to, reluctantly. At one time, CCP said that a communal room is almost as much work as something with relevant gameplay attached. My guess is there is quite a bit of coding needed before there can be multiple avatars in one area. So CCP will not do it, until there is a big reason to do so.
The problem is CCP's mentality that social areas are not relevant gameplay. It's a social game, or at least, its supposed to be.
Until the stick is removed from the ass regarding this issue being "relevant", we are probably stuck as we are. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29615
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 17:22:24 -
[1386] - Quote
Well... CCP is right in believing that it doesn't add anything ... ... simply because all the tools to be social are there already.
Anyone who NEEDS a specific environment to be social ... ... most likely is a bad asset to have around anyway.
Alwayw consider thetype of people it would attract. I do not kid when I say that I would gather billions of isk in WiS just by talking ... ... and an army of good looking alts, of course.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
131
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 17:33:49 -
[1387] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Pix Severus wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others. Many of us feel that since there has been so much work put into the avatar system and captains quarters already, a push towards towards a single, communal room in each station isn't so much to ask. We could use it to show off our avatars and roleplay, and the benefits to CCP as the demand for apparel increases would be very much worth it financially. This is a very contentious issue, however, and it likely will never happen, that I admit, and concede to, reluctantly. At one time, CCP said that a communal room is almost as much work as something with relevant gameplay attached. My guess is there is quite a bit of coding needed before there can be multiple avatars in one area. So CCP will not do it, until there is a big reason to do so. The problem is CCP's mentality that social areas are not relevant gameplay. It's a social game, or at least, its supposed to be. Until the stick is removed from the ass regarding this issue being "relevant", we are probably stuck as we are. I guess I can understand that viewpoint when it comes to EVE Online itself. Social areas for avatars would be neat, but doesn't really add anything to the important aspects of gameplay.
However, if you think about it as a means for players of Dust and EVE and maybe eventually all three games to mingle, it may not add gameplay to any of those but it deepens the interactions between the three.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
478
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 17:38:38 -
[1388] - Quote
People socialize differently in different situations. Competitively, facelessly via text, face-to-face (or even to a virtual face), or in what is considered a low-stress competitive environment (playing a game of slay in a virtual bar, etc). Watching a couple of people playing Mind Clash if that was ever a thing would also be great.
Different environments bring out different moods and interactions. You don't need a specific environment to be social, but you do need a specific environment for it to be enjoyable. I'm not sitting in my hangar all day talking in local about the prices going up and down in market. There is no face to face (even virtually), and there are no fun distractions or comforts. A good social area has plenty of both.
MidnightWyvern wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Pix Severus wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:However, let face it, don't we want to see more of our avatars? I'll give you a practical example... look at most of the people on this forums, they all made avatars that should represent them, both here and in game, while they spam and they gank. This game does not need walk in station, need better avatar customization and better avatar representations, or way to show them to the others. Many of us feel that since there has been so much work put into the avatar system and captains quarters already, a push towards towards a single, communal room in each station isn't so much to ask. We could use it to show off our avatars and roleplay, and the benefits to CCP as the demand for apparel increases would be very much worth it financially. This is a very contentious issue, however, and it likely will never happen, that I admit, and concede to, reluctantly. At one time, CCP said that a communal room is almost as much work as something with relevant gameplay attached. My guess is there is quite a bit of coding needed before there can be multiple avatars in one area. So CCP will not do it, until there is a big reason to do so. The problem is CCP's mentality that social areas are not relevant gameplay. It's a social game, or at least, its supposed to be. Until the stick is removed from the ass regarding this issue being "relevant", we are probably stuck as we are. I guess I can understand that viewpoint when it comes to EVE Online itself. Social areas for avatars would be neat, but doesn't really add anything to the important aspects of gameplay. However, if you think about it as a means for players of Dust and EVE and maybe eventually all three games to mingle, it may not add gameplay to any of those but it deepens the interactions between the three.
What exactly qualifies as important aspects of gameplay though? See, there's the disconnect. I have all the money I would ever need for anything and none of it means anything. Killing people gains me nothing either. Importance is subjective. If you're poor, maybe you want to go out and do things to be less poor. If you're not, you want something else. I want something else.
Some people may not "get it" and that's fine, but to think its unimportant is folly. If it was truly unimportant to most people there wouldn't a massive thread about it to talk in. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29621
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 17:55:20 -
[1389] - Quote
Social areas gain you nothing either, because all the tools are there already anyway. Itmchanges nothing, except for the worst kind of players... the escapists.
Most people are clueless about what they want. They just want, with no understanding why they want it.
WiS has absolutely no additional value for the game itself. It will only create more seperation, make more irrelevant carebears join the game, brings more clueless victims demanding more safety ...
... and will help people like me to make use of these victims all day ... every day ... forever.
You think WiS is a great idea. Yeah it is... just like the canflipping flag was. It. Will. Backfire!
In the end it will be people like you who will just turn into victims ... ... and who will whine at CCP about people like me who will crush your horrible reality bubbles.
And I will show no mercy whatsoever...
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
479
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:02:49 -
[1390] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Social areas gain you nothing either, because all the tools are there already anyway.
If they were, I would have nothing to ask for. Clearly that is not the case.
|
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29626
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:10:39 -
[1391] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Social areas gain you nothing either, because all the tools are there already anyway.
If they were, I would have nothing to ask for. Clearly that is not the case. You just refuse to accept that you already can talk to anyone you want. The issue is with you. Graphical bling changes nothing about the fact ... ... that it's iust bling changing nothing at all.
All the social tools already exist. Communication is easy and unlimited. WiS would add NOTHING to that at all.
Try Second Life. It's made specifically for you kind of victims.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
479
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:14:40 -
[1392] - Quote
It's funny you brought up Second Life. You know I've never played the game, but a lot of people have. It's more popular than this game, even.
But here's something to consider. What exactly do you think the people playing that game were looking to get out of it? Just the ability to talk to people? If so, they only needed a text chat room.. after all, that supplied everything they could have wanted, according to you. And yet, someone went the extra mile and it got really popular... huh.
So, why do you think that is? Take your time. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29626
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:20:49 -
[1393] - Quote
Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? Do you understand what quality means and that quantity doesn't automatically mean better?
Or do you believe that the vast majority of people who play such games have a higher intellect?
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
479
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:29:53 -
[1394] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? Do you understand what quality means and that quantity doesn't automatically mean better?
Or do you believe that the vast majority of people who play such games have a higher intellect?
I'm not entirely convinced you really know who those people are yourself. You seem to think its a this vs that thing, without recognizing that this thread was conceived by the very players who play the same game as you do.
Any idea of some sort of super intelligent spaceship pilot master race seems... fictional, at best. People are not automatically smarter or more desirable to be around simply because they play spaceships at 32. If they were, we wouldn't have the term neckbeard.
This idea that you are somehow of a superior breed seems arrogant at best... and thats putting it kindly. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
1783
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:31:36 -
[1395] - Quote
I dont think all is about playing second life, but creating in those games. They are really a sandboxes ideal for RPGs, In sense that you can play "Vampire - The Masquerade" there. As a Star Trek or even Star Wars.
All of that in environments encompassing avatars and machines, all you are able to create in a sandbox. But we would not have such freedom here no matter the cost but by principle of defined already world.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
479
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:34:22 -
[1396] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I dont think all is about playing second life, but creating in those games. They are really a sandboxes ideal for RPGs, In sense that you can play "Vampire - The Masquerade" there. As a Star Trek or even Star Wars.
All of that in environments encompassing avatars and machines, all you are able to create in a sandbox. But we would not have such freedom here no matter the cost but by principle of defined already world.
Ah, too true. You are very right that this is an important ingredient. But do remember that the original UE vision for WiS gave us the ability to own property in stations and customize them. There was indeed a degree of creativity implied about the process. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
1783
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:41:04 -
[1397] - Quote
Yes, I remember that. I also remember what I saw in SL and EVE would have to allow you build a whole level with media linked to rooms, to be competitive in this field.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29626
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:46:20 -
[1398] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? Do you understand what quality means and that quantity doesn't automatically mean better?
Or do you believe that the vast majority of people who play such games have a higher intellect? I'm not entirely convinced you really know who those people are yourself. You seem to think its a this vs that thing, without recognizing that this thread was conceived by the very players who play the same game as you do. Any idea of some sort of super intelligent spaceship pilot master race seems... fictional, at best. People are not automatically smarter or more desirable to be around simply because they play spaceships at 32. If they were, we wouldn't have the term neckbeard. This idea that you are somehow of a superior breed seems arrogant at best... and thats putting it kindly. It takes no intellect whatsoever to play Second Life.
There's nothing more I need to add.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Savnire Jacitu
Abysmal Gentlemen We Didn't Mean It
315
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 18:58:37 -
[1399] - Quote
As much as I would love a novelty like WIS, right now ccp can't afford to work on novelties. This is a strategy space ship game, the nailing on of a 3d social chat room/ micro transaction machine wouldn't seem very in line with the current needs of the game. But then again maybe I'm wrong.
|
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
54127
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 19:09:22 -
[1400] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? I'm pretty happy with my Hatsune Miku outfit.
Was only like $2.50 or something.
Could really use some cute boots though and oh yeah, a mouth!
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò Gû+ -¦-âss
|
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29630
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 19:44:38 -
[1401] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? I'm pretty happy with my Hatsune Miku outfit. Was only like $2.50 or something. Could really use some cute boots though and oh yeah, a mouth! You play EVE. I'm talking specifically about people who only play SL ... ... and would only join EVE for SLinSpace!
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
481
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 21:19:41 -
[1402] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? Do you understand what quality means and that quantity doesn't automatically mean better?
Or do you believe that the vast majority of people who play such games have a higher intellect? I'm not entirely convinced you really know who those people are yourself. You seem to think its a this vs that thing, without recognizing that this thread was conceived by the very players who play the same game as you do. Any idea of some sort of super intelligent spaceship pilot master race seems... fictional, at best. People are not automatically smarter or more desirable to be around simply because they play spaceships at 32. If they were, we wouldn't have the term neckbeard. This idea that you are somehow of a superior breed seems arrogant at best... and thats putting it kindly. It takes no intellect whatsoever to play Second Life. There's nothing more I need to add.
It takes no intelligence to play EVE, either. If it did, we wouldn't have successful scammers.
So what is your point? |
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 00:50:45 -
[1403] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:It takes no intelligence to play EVE, either. If it did, we wouldn't have successful scammers.
So what is your point?
Because it seems to me your real problem with the situation is that you believe yourself to be elevated above others, and don't want anyone else in your game who shares deviating interests.
All I can say to that is, you're not above anyone. The mere fact that you're so entirely emotionally driven to "protect" your game from these people shows that you are, if anything, a very flawed person that wants to elevate himself above others due to some kind of insecurity. Sorry to go all Dr. Phil on you, but this is a fairly sad situation. You really should try to learn how to mingle with other crowds better.
Solecist point is not about the quality of intellect you can find in SL or in EvE, as smart people and not so smart ones are objectively anywhere.
Solecist's point about WiS is it wouldn't add anything to the game you cannot already do, which is also totally my point in the previous posts. While it's clear people would love to see their avatar do more, it's also somewhat clear their walk in station is nothing else that a Second Life in space.
Before continuing, I want to say I've nothing against Second Life nor the people who play it, I don't play it, it doesn't interest me and I'm totally neutral about it and its player base.
That said, a game need to specialize in something, EvE online is a game about space, capsuleers, their space ships and how they interact with each other, be it in producing wealth or in destroying wealth. Wealth can be read as raw isk, trade goods, structures and/or sov. To keep people hooked it needs to continue in that direction, see the Dev effort in making citadels, in how they improved by miles the look of the spaceship or... just read the annual report from CCP phantom and EvE updates.
Did you like the mobile depot or the mobile tractor beam? Sure you did, or at least I did, both changed my gameplay by miles. What if they made some new animation or interface for our avatars instead of those two things? In the industry the monetary resources are a finite thing, money is use to pay workers, workers produce some goods, and it's up to the industry decide which good is the best. Wis is not the best thing to produce, ship related "stuff" is.
I would be totally happy to see our avatar animate a bit, like they do when you customize them, to make them feel more alive, but as solecist said walking in a station wont make you more social, you have already a local chat, a corp chat, various thematic channels in game (rookie help, broadcast for rep and so on), if you see someone in space you can also right click his name and "start conversation". I do, often even if we had a conflict our convo ends up in a "GF" or a "GL", sometimes with insults or mocking remarks, yet walking in station wont change the way people behave.
TL;DR Think about how WiS would benefit the whole spaceship sandbox thing, beyond the "it would be cool".
P.s. Btw I tried, the best I could think is an x-com base type interface, but even so, unless you add more to it, like station crew to manage, it has no real gameplay point. |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
54190
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 03:55:40 -
[1404] - Quote
The thing is EVE is already full of stuff that adds nothing to gameplay in a direct sense, stuff that's merely aesthetic or vanity related, and people continue to pay for it and demand/suggest more such additions. Ship skins, graphical improvements, engine trails, the list goes on and on. Including yes, even more avatar items too.
Stuff doesn't have to add anything to gameplay directly, it just needs to add to a person's experience. By doing so it adds to gameplay for that person. See? We can't make swathing comments like "a WiS feature wouldn't add anything to the social dynamic" just because it wouldn't for you.
There are plenty of people who think ship skins are a waste of time too.
If we're running off the philosophy of "we can already do a thing so why add more ways to do it" then really we should just take EVE back to dots on a map or spreadsheets because every other part of the game is merely aesthetically related - we don't "need" any of it. And we all know that would be silly, so really the argument just doesn't stack up.
Years ago EVE had the goal of being the 'Ultimate Sci-Fi simulator', not just a space ship simulator. I think that's an awesome concept and I still do today.
Solecist Project wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? I'm pretty happy with my Hatsune Miku outfit. Was only like $2.50 or something. Could really use some cute boots though and oh yeah, a mouth! You play EVE. I'm talking specifically about people who only play SL ... ... and would only join EVE for SLinSpace! Honestly I never really liked SL. Don't find the interface intuitive enough and the avatars just aren't pretty enough.
But I dunno, can we really box people like that?
I've played EVE now for around 6 years, I've played avatar based stuff (and simple text based mmo's) for much, much longer. Most people move and shift between the games they play over time regularly. I don't think there's a dedicated crowd of "strange" people who would suddenly emerge from the shadows of SL, abandon it and surge into EVE and ruin the game should an avatar based form of gameplay or interaction be added.
That's a strange thing to be worried about honestly.
More players is always awesome, whether they bring space and/or social content. Both are very important aspects of EVE's content imo. Personally I login and enjoy my own playstyle, and that's not effected at all by the thousands of other players who may be simultaneously enjoying a completely different playstyle while I'm doing so.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò Gû+ -¦-âss
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4511
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 07:33:55 -
[1405] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:TL;DR Think about how WiS would benefit the whole spaceship sandbox thing, beyond the "it would be cool". before team avatar were entirely disbanded they were doing experiments in making gameplay for avatars, like exploring abandoned stations
i've played games where the social hub was just a space mostly abandoned by the players, but i've also played games where the social hub was a fun place to hang around. i don't know what the magic element is. and eve can have a lot of bumming around in stations. if the social hub was made a place people want to be, it's an improvement on our experience ingame
also, suggesting that people who enjoy spaceships and people who enjoy avatars are different is silly - we have no idea how many spaceship-likers are also avatar-likers
finally, human sociality is incredibly complex. i don't think the ability to communicate produces the same experience every time. the method and circumstances of our interaction can produce a completely different experience
Remiel Pollard wrote:Do you know who it was that developed Carbon technology in the first place? The tragic irony of Incarna was that it was exceptional technology, but poorly implemented, and as a result, it's technology that's largely fallen by the wayside. They have the technical expertise already. They just got done making a FPS a few years ago, you know that right? the graphical carbon element's animation work along with most of the captain's quarters were done in atlanta, and dust's graphical rendering is unreal 3. i have no idea which office worked on building the graphical part of carbon (it was heavily associated with the wod project right? that was atlanta), but why would they keep talent around for a project noone is working on?
the poster you were quoting was on about specialist skills, and i don't think ccp has those skills around anymore. i mean obviously there's someone around able to work on clothes, but that doesn't mean they have the number of skilled people to work on a whole wis project, does it? |
Nachtengel von Rothschild
13
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 09:56:07 -
[1406] - Quote
sol always mentions how above others he is in almost every thread, besides that he mentions how bored of the game he is and in most threads that want to ADD aka not remove anything, such as adding some pve or wis... he gets upset at those who post for it.
not sure why eve players care whether wis was added in or not, their pvp territorial conquest would still be there, while the social animals would chat in stations.
now they all claim that this addition would require dev time which could be worked on eve... the fact is eve is 13 years old or so and the game is still about territorial conquest, most additions made in the past 3 updates is just skins.
the other thing about wis is it does not have to be a place for simply just conversation, it can be a place where you shop for skins for your ships and avatar, it can be a place where there is casinos... where you could play slot machines with different isk amounts... just like i want isk... but in a station next to others. the best part of adding a casino is having the ability to play eve poker and then one day adding in tournaments...
you guys don't have to conquer pvp all day every day, most of you are bored with that or upset at the changes ccp made, a lot of you say null is boring... a lot of others say pve is boring... the fact is people are bored... adding (and not removing anything else from the game) would draw in more players who could for 4 hours play in a poker tournament, then hop on his ship and go kill people.
what about clubs/bars? what if someone could DJ inside eve with his own apps and play us some tunes while we chat... what if we could have bar fights? i dunno i'm just talking random things. you might dislike the ideas, doesn't mean they are awful for others.
you should welcome additions, not hate on them regardless of what they are... rather than complain about additional things added to a game, you should complain about stuff being removed.
---
now if they brought dust into said "project legion" and gave us a CCP game launcher where we could login one of our characters to either log into dust/legion or eve... that would be a welcomed addition... fight in space or planets... and if you dislike the idea of wis so much, all the stuff i said about wis above could be added to dust/legion rather than eve, so you'd never ever see it if you were strictly an eve player.
a business exists to make money... especially profit, so you should all be for ccp giving us more stuff to do, rather than be bored with the same 13 year old gameplay.
bottom line is, you should welcome additions to a game, regardless whether they appeal to you or not and you should only complain if they removed stuff rather than a company trying to expand. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2452
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 13:38:14 -
[1407] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? Do you understand what quality means and that quantity doesn't automatically mean better?
Or do you believe that the vast majority of people who play such games have a higher intellect? I suspect that you would be more than a little surprised. Sure there are a majority of people that sit in "clubs" gesture spamming each other but then a majority of players are going solo ratting and mining mindlessly in High Sec.
However, I know a solid number of coders, builders and other designers in there. Almost all of the things in SL are user made. SL is not a game. It is a virtual world with games IN it.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29722
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 14:03:07 -
[1408] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Of course it's more popular! Do you EVER actually think about what kind of people play these games?? Do you understand what quality means and that quantity doesn't automatically mean better?
Or do you believe that the vast majority of people who play such games have a higher intellect? I suspect that you would be more than a little surprised. Sure there are a majority of people that sit in "clubs" gesture spamming each other but then a majority of players are going solo ratting and mining mindlessly in High Sec. However, I know a solid number of coders, builders and other designers in there. Almost all of the things in SL are user made. SL is not a game. It is a virtual world with games IN it. The majority of people are mindless, dumb robots with no creative thought. I'm glad we agree on that one.
Do we really need more Indahs in this game?
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2453
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 14:06:38 -
[1409] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:...Do we really need more Indahs in this game? If we can shoot them, kick them from our groups and they pay subscriptions then - YES
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29722
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 14:13:19 -
[1410] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:...Do we really need more Indahs in this game? If we can shoot them, kick them from our groups and they pay subscriptions then - YES But we can't. That's the point.
All she can do is hide behind her butthurtedness ... ... which she has quite a lot of.
All WE can do is block her.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2453
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 14:28:03 -
[1411] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:All WE can do is block her. That is fine too. Still paying a subscription and can't interfere with me directly.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29724
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 14:32:41 -
[1412] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:All WE can do is block her. That is fine too. Still paying a subscription and can't interfere with me directly. No, that's incorrect Jen. They grow. With WiS, they'd grow even further. What do you think happens when there's tens of thousands more little Indahs around?
You think they'll stay silent after being scammed, bumed or ganked? No, they will scream bloody murder and how they're a significant part of the paying customers and they will demand that the game is being changed for them, which will kill it.
Because that's what carebears always do.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
133
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 14:53:53 -
[1413] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote: Because it seems to me your real problem with the situation is that you believe yourself to be elevated above others, and don't want anyone else in your game who shares deviating interests.
So you mean kind of like the people that laughed at the Dust 514 community while spamming "PC MASTER RACE" in the Twitch chat during the infamous unveil of Project Legion back in 2014?
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2453
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 15:00:07 -
[1414] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:All WE can do is block her. That is fine too. Still paying a subscription and can't interfere with me directly. No, that's incorrect Jen. They grow. With WiS, they'd grow even further. What do you think happens when there's tens of thousands more little Indahs around? You think they'll stay silent after being scammed, bumed or ganked? No, they will scream bloody murder and how they're a significant part of the paying customers and they will demand that the game is being changed for them, which will kill it. Because that's what carebears always do. Engrave it on the wall and the monument. Put it on the front page.
"Make EVE deep and make it difficult."
(Suck up the carebear money but use it as a bonus revenue stream that you can throw away if need be.)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29726
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 15:11:35 -
[1415] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:All WE can do is block her. That is fine too. Still paying a subscription and can't interfere with me directly. No, that's incorrect Jen. They grow. With WiS, they'd grow even further. What do you think happens when there's tens of thousands more little Indahs around? You think they'll stay silent after being scammed, bumed or ganked? No, they will scream bloody murder and how they're a significant part of the paying customers and they will demand that the game is being changed for them, which will kill it. Because that's what carebears always do. Engrave it on the wall and the monument. Put it on the front page. "Make EVE deep and make it difficult." (Suck up the carebear money but use it as a bonus revenue stream that you can throw away if need be.) Hey I'm all for people throwing money at the game, even if it's little Indahs ... ... but this will backfire if the game caters to them too much.
That's simply a risk not worth taking, because these people never shut up. WiS would work around natural selection and I'm sure you understand what that means.
Funnily enough has this game proven to work much better by not catering to the weak ... ... and by being complicated, hardcore and cutthroat. So not for these people.
Why not instead take the other route and make it a game for elitists again ... ?
Give us WiS ... yeah ... let us have guns, knifes and baseball bats. Let us have anarchy and groups that control stations! Let them demand a fee to be allowed to enter certain establishments!
This "everyone is equal" bullshit needs to go away. Not everyone in this game should have the right to speak up as he sees fit. No one should be allowed to hide from consequences.
No one should be able to hide behind alts AND have the right to an opinion!
It completely erodes natural selection and promotes the weak far too much!
*adds pepper for flavour*
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2453
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 15:22:44 -
[1416] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:... but this will backfire IF the game caters to them too much. ... *adds pepper for flavour* Notice how I talk about doing the avatar stuff by patching us into Dust. Sandwich them between a FPS and EVE. Hardly a romantic setting for their love of bunnies to bloom.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Tamiroth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
260
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 15:25:37 -
[1417] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Give us WiS ... yeah ... let us have guns, knifes and baseball bats. Let us have anarchy and groups that control stations! Let them demand a fee to be allowed to enter certain establishments! My alt would totally agree with you! Pity she is now unsubbed. Otherwise, she'd demand a sidearm again.
But you had her last likes! :P
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29726
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 15:41:04 -
[1418] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:... but this will backfire IF the game caters to them too much. ... *adds pepper for flavour* Notice how I talk about doing the avatar stuff by patching us into Dust. Sandwich them between a FPS and EVE. Hardly a romantic setting for their love of bunnies to bloom.
I like that idea. Everything that gives us the tools to make sure the pest is kept in check.
Tamiroth wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Give us WiS ... yeah ... let us have guns, knifes and baseball bats. Let us have anarchy and groups that control stations! Let them demand a fee to be allowed to enter certain establishments! My alt would totally agree with you! Pity she is now unsubbed. Otherwise, she'd demand a sidearm again. But you had her last likes! :P That's nice! I will keep them in honour, as soon as I find out who your alt was! :)
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
134
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 16:58:32 -
[1419] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:... but this will backfire IF the game caters to them too much. ... *adds pepper for flavour* Notice how I talk about doing the avatar stuff by patching us into Dust. Sandwich them between a FPS and EVE. Hardly a romantic setting for their love of bunnies to bloom. I think I can speak for the majority of the Dust 514 community when I say I would be glad to be part of efforts to "keep the pest in check".
Honestly we have some of that same issue with people whining about how the game isn't easy enough for them.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2454
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 17:00:48 -
[1420] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:... but this will backfire IF the game caters to them too much. ... *adds pepper for flavour* Notice how I talk about doing the avatar stuff by patching us into Dust. Sandwich them between a FPS and EVE. Hardly a romantic setting for their love of bunnies to bloom. I think I can speak for the majority of the Dust 514 community when I say I would be glad to be part of efforts to "keep the pest in check". Honestly we have some of that same issue with people whining about how the game isn't easy enough for them. I will be glad to jettison your pests into space or fire them out as ammo if that becomes an option o7
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29752
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 17:55:57 -
[1421] - Quote
Hey Jen, I've been talking in local in the system! Suddenly people started talking!
Some people are in eRP, really interesting! ^_^
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 19:37:28 -
[1422] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Hey Jen, I've been talking in local in the system! Suddenly people started talking!
Some people are in eRP, really interesting! ^_^
A Solecist Project walks into a Local chat |
Amber Starview
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 21:41:00 -
[1423] - Quote
It is a good feature that should be added already ...and although may not add directly to some peoples play style for others it may add lots
I'm for diverse player base |
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
398
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 01:04:46 -
[1424] - Quote
Walking in stations?
Its hard enough already to get people to undock.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
Vertinox
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 06:45:27 -
[1425] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:All WE can do is block her. That is fine too. Still paying a subscription and can't interfere with me directly. No, that's incorrect Jen. They grow. With WiS, they'd grow even further. What do you think happens when there's tens of thousands more little Indahs around? You think they'll stay silent after being scammed, bumed or ganked? No, they will scream bloody murder and how they're a significant part of the paying customers and they will demand that the game is being changed for them, which will kill it. Because that's what carebears always do.
Maybe you should just message all the care bears and tell them to invest in Star Citizen and leave EVE alone.
I mean they already have working walking in stations that you can play now. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29767
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 10:24:33 -
[1426] - Quote
So what? Go there and stop paying our sub here. Stop wasting isk or plex for something you don't want.
You don't do that, though. You don't go to your friends and post on the SC forums, no, you post here. You lack any believability whatsoever, just like every single one of you folks who declare they leave for any other game.
Except Indah. Indah doesn't attempt to bullshit us about leaving for other games. I guess she got that going for herself... which is actually nice.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29767
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 10:25:52 -
[1427] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Hey Jen, I've been talking in local in the system! Suddenly people started talking!
Some people are in eRP, really interesting! ^_^ A Solecist Project walks into a Local chat Even in WHs people start talking when I'm around. XD
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Sharise Dragonstar
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
36
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 12:04:48 -
[1428] - Quote
I am all up for walking in stations.It would be a good addition to the game. Our avatars do look great and it would be great to have somewhere to show them off and to customise them even more. Player owned shops and other novelties could be added etc.
However it still must remain true to the eve traditions so the ability to destroy, hinder or manipulate another avatar must be included. Eve has always been about PvP in every different way possible. If someone can blow up another players ship simply because they are bored (or any other reason) then someone should be able to destroy another players avatar for any conceivable reason. If WiS were just going to be for non combatant content primarily aimed at care bears then the time invested in it would be better spent developing the game as it was originally intended. |
Amber Starview
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 12:19:29 -
[1429] - Quote
It is funny the people complaining about wis and avatar customisation are usually the ones most heavily customised with all the stuff they argue is not important - it's crazy funny to read them complain avatars are pointless and nobody cares then to see s heavily customised char photo lol
So much salt from anti wis Crowd its funny - pretty much the most lame thing to tell someone to go play something else if they disagree with you = you lost the argument and have nothing else lol |
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 13:34:01 -
[1430] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:So what? Go there and stop paying our sub here. Stop wasting isk or plex for something you don't want.
You don't do that, though. You don't go to your friends and post on the SC forums, no, you post here. You lack any believability whatsoever, just like every single one of you folks who declare they leave for any other game.
Except Indah. Indah doesn't attempt to bullshit us about leaving for other games. I guess she got that going for herself... which is actually nice.
You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.
If you go on a wow forums, it's full of naysayers calling for its imminent death and how they are going to quit, or even worse, they actually don't play it anymore but they feel the need to tell everybody how the game is bad and they should leave it.
Then you move on EvE forums, and it's the same.
Even worse are the people who wish to turn a game into another, because they loved that other game, but they don't play it anymore, but they would love to see it here, in the new game. This basically summarize this thread.
People wish to have aspects of Second Life, Star Citizen and even WoW into EvE, but they don't actually play anymore (or ever played) those games. And the more a game survive over the time, the less it's going to be like other games, because clones have a short lifespan.
Don't be denial people, all the WoW clones died, all, every single one from Wildstar to SW:ToR passing from Elder Scrolls online and its hundred of bugs (yes, hundreds, it's not a made up number, at the release it was unplayable), and you wish to have a clone feature of some other game, without any real benefit to the real EvE gameplay implemented instead of other gameplay changes or additions? You guys really want to return shooting the jita monument, don't you?
I'll leave an old school, iconic and ironic photoshop of the original EvE poster:
EvE Poster
And a relevant reddit post:
Reddit - 2006 EvE
This is the spirit of EvE, this is the vision of the game and this is the game most of us signed for. When I'll want to walk into a ship hangar, I'll go donate 50 euros to Chris Roberts.
P.s. Now that I think about it, I should probably make a corp called Robertas Space Industries and have a RSI. tag |
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30011
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 13:58:53 -
[1431] - Quote
We should play together.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
490
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 07:13:30 -
[1432] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:Solecist Project wrote:So what? Go there and stop paying our sub here. Stop wasting isk or plex for something you don't want.
You don't do that, though. You don't go to your friends and post on the SC forums, no, you post here. You lack any believability whatsoever, just like every single one of you folks who declare they leave for any other game.
Except Indah. Indah doesn't attempt to bullshit us about leaving for other games. I guess she got that going for herself... which is actually nice. You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same. If you go on a wow forums, it's full of naysayers calling for its imminent death and how they are going to quit, or even worse, they actually don't play it anymore but they feel the need to tell everybody how the game is bad and they should leave it. Then you move on EvE forums, and it's the same. Even worse are the people who wish to turn a game into another, because they loved that other game, but they don't play it anymore, but they would love to see it here, in the new game. This basically summarize this thread. People wish to have aspects of Second Life, Star Citizen and even WoW into EvE, but they don't actually play anymore (or ever played) those games. And the more a game survive over the time, the less it's going to be like other games, because clones have a short lifespan. Don't be denial people, all the WoW clones died, all, every single one from Wildstar to SW:ToR passing from Elder Scrolls online and its hundred of bugs (yes, hundreds, it's not a made up number, at the release it was unplayable), and you wish to have a clone feature of some other game, without any real benefit to the real EvE gameplay implemented instead of other gameplay changes or additions? You guys really want to return shooting the jita monument, don't you? I'll leave an old school, iconic and ironic photoshop of the original EvE poster: EvE PosterAnd a relevant reddit post: Reddit - 2006 EvEThis is the spirit of EvE, this is the vision of the game and this is the game most of us signed for. When I'll want to walk into a ship hangar, I'll go donate 50 euros to Chris Roberts. P.s. Now that I think about it, I should probably make a corp called Robertas Space Industries and have a RSI. tag
Generally when you get into such a game there is a certain time commitment if you want to make it worth your while. And if the range of activities in that game is limited, of course you begin to feel bored and begin questioning whether or not the game has any kind of lasting future. The majority of EVE's most lucrative activities are fairly passive, so even when incredibly successful its easy to get that feeling as I have.
That said, the wider the range of activities available the less likely one is to become bored and go elsewhere. They need only distract themselves with a different corner of the game, rather than a different game. For that reason, yes, I do support an entirely different style of gameplay for WiS content. Whether its entirely social, is a glorified housing/trophy room, involves smuggling, or is simply loaded with minigame distractions... whatever. More activities are better and there is only so much you can do with a space ship. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
137
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 13:58:17 -
[1433] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:Solecist Project wrote:So what? Go there and stop paying our sub here. Stop wasting isk or plex for something you don't want.
You don't do that, though. You don't go to your friends and post on the SC forums, no, you post here. You lack any believability whatsoever, just like every single one of you folks who declare they leave for any other game.
Except Indah. Indah doesn't attempt to bullshit us about leaving for other games. I guess she got that going for herself... which is actually nice. You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same. If you go on a wow forums, it's full of naysayers calling for its imminent death and how they are going to quit, or even worse, they actually don't play it anymore but they feel the need to tell everybody how the game is bad and they should leave it. Then you move on EvE forums, and it's the same. Even worse are the people who wish to turn a game into another, because they loved that other game, but they don't play it anymore, but they would love to see it here, in the new game. This basically summarize this thread. People wish to have aspects of Second Life, Star Citizen and even WoW into EvE, but they don't actually play anymore (or ever played) those games. And the more a game survive over the time, the less it's going to be like other games, because clones have a short lifespan. Don't be denial people, all the WoW clones died, all, every single one from Wildstar to SW:ToR passing from Elder Scrolls online and its hundred of bugs (yes, hundreds, it's not a made up number, at the release it was unplayable), and you wish to have a clone feature of some other game, without any real benefit to the real EvE gameplay implemented instead of other gameplay changes or additions? You guys really want to return shooting the jita monument, don't you? I'll leave an old school, iconic and ironic photoshop of the original EvE poster: EvE PosterAnd a relevant reddit post: Reddit - 2006 EvEThis is the spirit of EvE, this is the vision of the game and this is the game most of us signed for. When I'll want to walk into a ship hangar, I'll go donate 50 euros to Chris Roberts. P.s. Now that I think about it, I should probably make a corp called Robertas Space Industries and have a RSI. tag Generally when you get into such a game there is a certain time commitment if you want to make it worth your while. And if the range of activities in that game is limited, of course you begin to feel bored and begin questioning whether or not the game has any kind of lasting future. The majority of EVE's most lucrative activities are fairly passive, so even when incredibly successful its easy to get that feeling as I have. That said, the wider the range of activities available the less likely one is to become bored and go elsewhere. They need only distract themselves with a different corner of the game, rather than a different game. Too much focus on a certain thing results in feelings of exodus. For that reason, yes, I do support an entirely different style of gameplay for WiS content. Whether its entirely social, is a glorified housing/trophy room, involves smuggling, or is simply loaded with minigame distractions... whatever. More activities are better and there is only so much you can do with a space ship. None of the content we've gotten in the last three years has meant anything to me because at the end of the day its all the same stuff. No matter how many different ships CCP adds all they really do is fly, mine, shoot, and explode. I'm over it, really. Is that to suggest that with those new, alternate experiences you'd eventually be attracted back to ship Combat? That is the point of this game after all.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30023
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 14:05:53 -
[1434] - Quote
You're the only other I recognize who calls it ship combat. I've given up on it ... everyone just wrongly keeps calling it PvP.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
138
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 15:22:39 -
[1435] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:You're the only other I recognize who calls it ship combat. I've given up on it ... everyone just wrongly keeps calling it PvP.
Well whether you are fighting other players or NPCs, it's still technically ship combat.
I guess I'm making the assumption that that's the kind of gameplay he would be looking for since we both are "Slayers" in Dust 514, though he is FAR better at it than I am.
I mostly stick to flying Caldari Assault Dropships and occasionally ragequitting when some seeker missiles randomly detonate with too much kinetic impulse and flip me upside down in midair.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13249
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 15:55:34 -
[1436] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.
This is because the common denominator is 'people' lol. 'People' are almost never satisfied with anything. That's ok, that's them. What I tend to find annoying isn't that these 'people' exist, it's that they look at those of us who aren't like them, who can actually be satisfied with a thing (probably because we don't believe the universe owe us everything just because we want it)....) like we're the ones with the problem lol.
If you go back in this very thread you can find where I linked some posts from World of Tanks forums where people plead for and demand INFANTRY....in a game called "World of TANKS". This despite the plethora of other , more complete war games that have infantry that they could be playing.
They expect the world to cater to them, rather than them having to adapt to the world. My problem with the WiS crowd doesn't come from the fact that some dude sitting in front of a computer wants to have avatar stuff in EVE so that they can sit at a bar that doesn't exist and drink beverages they can't taste while staring out a window at an imaginary planet. To each his own. The problem comes from their constant nattering about how easy it would all be for someone (who isn't them) to add that kind of stuff to EVE despite CCP's track record with such things.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30075
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 16:02:44 -
[1437] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:My problem with the WiS crowd doesn't come from the fact that some dude sitting in front of a computer wants to have avatar stuff in EVE so that they can sit at a bar that doesn't exist and drink beverages they can't taste while staring out a window at an imaginary planet. That felt like a stream of soft caramel... <3
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
492
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 17:44:25 -
[1438] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:Solecist Project wrote:So what? Go there and stop paying our sub here. Stop wasting isk or plex for something you don't want.
You don't do that, though. You don't go to your friends and post on the SC forums, no, you post here. You lack any believability whatsoever, just like every single one of you folks who declare they leave for any other game.
Except Indah. Indah doesn't attempt to bullshit us about leaving for other games. I guess she got that going for herself... which is actually nice. You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same. If you go on a wow forums, it's full of naysayers calling for its imminent death and how they are going to quit, or even worse, they actually don't play it anymore but they feel the need to tell everybody how the game is bad and they should leave it. Then you move on EvE forums, and it's the same. Even worse are the people who wish to turn a game into another, because they loved that other game, but they don't play it anymore, but they would love to see it here, in the new game. This basically summarize this thread. People wish to have aspects of Second Life, Star Citizen and even WoW into EvE, but they don't actually play anymore (or ever played) those games. And the more a game survive over the time, the less it's going to be like other games, because clones have a short lifespan. Don't be denial people, all the WoW clones died, all, every single one from Wildstar to SW:ToR passing from Elder Scrolls online and its hundred of bugs (yes, hundreds, it's not a made up number, at the release it was unplayable), and you wish to have a clone feature of some other game, without any real benefit to the real EvE gameplay implemented instead of other gameplay changes or additions? You guys really want to return shooting the jita monument, don't you? I'll leave an old school, iconic and ironic photoshop of the original EvE poster: EvE PosterAnd a relevant reddit post: Reddit - 2006 EvEThis is the spirit of EvE, this is the vision of the game and this is the game most of us signed for. When I'll want to walk into a ship hangar, I'll go donate 50 euros to Chris Roberts. P.s. Now that I think about it, I should probably make a corp called Robertas Space Industries and have a RSI. tag Generally when you get into such a game there is a certain time commitment if you want to make it worth your while. And if the range of activities in that game is limited, of course you begin to feel bored and begin questioning whether or not the game has any kind of lasting future. The majority of EVE's most lucrative activities are fairly passive, so even when incredibly successful its easy to get that feeling as I have. That said, the wider the range of activities available the less likely one is to become bored and go elsewhere. They need only distract themselves with a different corner of the game, rather than a different game. Too much focus on a certain thing results in feelings of exodus. For that reason, yes, I do support an entirely different style of gameplay for WiS content. Whether its entirely social, is a glorified housing/trophy room, involves smuggling, or is simply loaded with minigame distractions... whatever. More activities are better and there is only so much you can do with a space ship. None of the content we've gotten in the last three years has meant anything to me because at the end of the day its all the same stuff. No matter how many different ships CCP adds all they really do is fly, mine, shoot, and explode. I'm over it, really. Is that to suggest that with those new, alternate experiences you'd eventually be attracted back to ship Combat? That is the point of this game after all.
I simply want a one-package game universe that gives me everything. Given the fact its been marketed to do exactly that in the past, I don't feel its an unreasonable expectation. Whether or not its technically under the EVE client seems a rather moot point now that Dust is its own thing, though it would certainly be more convenient if it was actually operable. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
139
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 17:47:47 -
[1439] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:
You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.
This is because the common denominator is 'people' lol. 'People' are almost never satisfied with anything. That's ok, that's them. What I tend to find annoying isn't that these 'people' exist, it's that they look at those of us who aren't like them, who can actually be satisfied with a thing (probably because we don't believe the universe owe us everything just because we want it)....) like we're the ones with the problem lol. If you go back in this very thread you can find where I linked some posts from World of Tanks forums where people plead for and demand INFANTRY....in a game called "World of TANKS". This despite the plethora of other , more complete war games that have infantry that they could be playing. They expect the world to cater to them, rather than them having to adapt to the world. My problem with the WiS crowd doesn't come from the fact that some dude sitting in front of a computer wants to have avatar stuff in EVE so that they can sit at a bar that doesn't exist and drink beverages they can't taste while staring out a window at an imaginary planet. To each his own. The problem comes from their constant nattering about how easy it would all be for someone (who isn't them) to add that kind of stuff to EVE despite CCP's track record with such things. Well you realize part of the reason we still talk about this is they were almost done? They had a buggy but functional working prototype set up for FanFest back in 2009, and they mentioned on several occasions in 2011 before the big ruckus that they were on track to have station interiors ready before the end of the year.
It's not like we're asking them to drop spaceship development and focus only on WiS, it's that we want them to finish the work they'd almost completed and release it.
Kuronaga wrote: I simply want a one-package game universe that gives me everything. Given the fact its been marketed to do exactly that in the past, I don't feel its an unreasonable expectation.
I want that as well, and it's part of why I always thought WiS was cool even if it was just "Multiplayer Barbie Dress-Up" and additional content wouldn't be coming till later.
I still think it would be an excellent tool for mingling of player communities between their three games.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Arya Ikahrus
7
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 18:01:06 -
[1440] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:I want that as well, and it's part of why I always thought WiS was cool even if it was just "Multiplayer Barbie Dress-Up" and additional content wouldn't be coming till later.
I still think it would be an excellent tool for mingling of player communities between their three games.
Some places for Capsuleers, Dusties and Valkyries to mingle would be nice. A bar with some mini-games and betting, a command room with maps that can have notes and such scribbled on them, maybe invite some people to my hangar to look at my latest pointless & expensive ship that I daren't undock.
I also hope they follow through on that vague plan they had to let this one character I'm using be the one I use in all 3 games. |
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
492
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 18:07:19 -
[1441] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:
You know, regardless of the game, everywhere is the same.
This is because the common denominator is 'people' lol. 'People' are almost never satisfied with anything. That's ok, that's them. What I tend to find annoying isn't that these 'people' exist, it's that they look at those of us who aren't like them, who can actually be satisfied with a thing (probably because we don't believe the universe owe us everything just because we want it)....) like we're the ones with the problem lol. If you go back in this very thread you can find where I linked some posts from World of Tanks forums where people plead for and demand INFANTRY....in a game called "World of TANKS". This despite the plethora of other , more complete war games that have infantry that they could be playing. They expect the world to cater to them, rather than them having to adapt to the world. My problem with the WiS crowd doesn't come from the fact that some dude sitting in front of a computer wants to have avatar stuff in EVE so that they can sit at a bar that doesn't exist and drink beverages they can't taste while staring out a window at an imaginary planet. To each his own. The problem comes from their constant nattering about how easy it would all be for someone (who isn't them) to add that kind of stuff to EVE despite CCP's track record with such things.
It's not easy at all. But it was marketed as going to happen for years, it was developed for years. EVE was never called world of spaceships. Assets are there. Some usable, some dated. Concepts are there. Some usable, some not.
Easy to implement? Well, clearly not. It took them months to do a single room, though word from ex-employees was that particular team was fairly incompetent. Ultimately its a thing thats wanted and whether or not its part of the eve client is fairly moot as long as its done well.
The biggest roadblock isn't whether or not it adds anything to the game, technical limitations or whether or not the players want it. The biggest roadblock is whether or not CCP can stop being bad at anything that isn't a numbers tweak long enough for new content to actually become good. That, really, is the problem. If it's not a spaceship CCP tends to screw it up. Took a long time before we got ourselves a Rattati for Dust, and they had to pull him out of some financial office or something. Talk about an unlikely savior. |
Arya Ikahrus
8
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 18:22:40 -
[1442] - Quote
They could start small. Create a room to represent the Corp offices we rent, a fancy table that can show various maps in the middle, big window of space, bar in the back corner with a few tables with poker and chess on them. No official in-game gambling, if it's corp mates you could just trust each other (which of course could lead to stealing, which at some point in the future could lead to shooting! I'm getting carried away...) |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
492
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 18:28:48 -
[1443] - Quote
Problem with starting small is one side of the fence criticizes them for using it as an excuse to drag out development and get nothing done, and on the other side you get people whining that the small thing "adds nothing to gameplay" and "takes away from spaceship development".
So the only way both sides are content is if CCP suddenly and magically releases a bunch of "meaningful content" all at once so it cant get in the way of anything and doesn't feel like a slow bleedout.... which is obviously impossible. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30163
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 19:30:50 -
[1444] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Problem with starting small is one side of the fence criticizes them for using it as an excuse to drag out development and get nothing done, and on the other side you get people whining that the small thing "adds nothing to gameplay" and "takes away from spaceship development".
So the only way both sides are content is if CCP suddenly and magically releases a bunch of "meaningful content" all at once so it cant get in the way of anything and doesn't feel like a slow bleedout.... which is obviously impossible.
I mean they might be able to pull something like that off with a really big additional dev team, but seeing as how we've got them working on throwaway VR fads that doesn't seem to be the reality right now. Errr ... no.
When CCP tells them "We start small" then people will accept that "they start small".
PLUS: There will ALWAYS be whining, so you have no argument in that direction.
RoAnnon wrote:
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
I just scanned for sites and I found a C3
The fleet is now forming, FC wants T3s
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
|
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 20:04:29 -
[1445] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:I mean they might be able to pull something like that off with a really big additional dev team, but seeing as how we've got them working on throwaway VR fads that doesn't seem to be the reality right now.
The VR stuff they are pulling out with valkyre is quite different, as Valkyre is going to be bundled with the Oculus Rift headset.
Now, when you bundle a software with a hardware, the company selling the hardware makes a deal with the software company saying "we buy you XXX licenses of the game for a special price" where XXX is the number of hardware pieces they wish to bundle.
In the case of EvE: Valkyre the hardware company much likely bought a certain number of copies while the game was in the developing status or simply gave a certain amount of money in exchange of having a game tailored for their hardware. I admit, I'm not really into this, so details may vary, but it's basically what the consoles do every day, and CCP has done it already with dust.
My point is making a game for an hardware piece or console has it's monetary upsides and it's going to be a positive revenue for the company making it, but the size of its dev team is probably totally not influent to EvE. At best we might end up with some high render model of ships used in Valkyre ported into EvE.
And as a last note, most companies (and videogame ones are no exeption) hire workers "per project", meaning you get hired to work on a certain thing / project / part of project, and once your job is done the contract is resolved, so you also risk to not have Valkyre devs working on EvE once the project is done. Probably the dev team is going to be downsized to keep the game updated and patched over time.
So stop look at valkyre as something that's stealing dev power from EvE as the project as most likely parallels and not tangential to each other. |
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 20:10:38 -
[1446] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: Errr ... no.
When CCP tells them "We start small" then people will accept that "they start small".
PLUS: There will ALWAYS be whining, so you have no argument in that direction.
Actually it's better to not even say anything to the people until you have something in your hands, because "we start small" multiplied by the "hype train" can have disastrous effects.
Look at this thread, WiS was hyped to insane levels, failed to meet even the lowest expectation and ended up... like we see it now: A blue arrow near "undock" to enter the "avatar and spaceship screenshot mode".
Very nice ones I've to say, thanks to the GTX 980 I've on. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30175
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 20:32:23 -
[1447] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:Solecist Project wrote: Errr ... no.
When CCP tells them "We start small" then people will accept that "they start small".
PLUS: There will ALWAYS be whining, so you have no argument in that direction.
Actually it's better to not even say anything to the people until you have something in your hands, because "we start small" multiplied by the "hype train" can have disastrous effects. Look at this thread, WiS was hyped to insane levels, failed to meet even the lowest expectation and ended up... like we see it now: A blue arrow near "undock" to enter the "avatar and spaceship screenshot mode". Very nice ones I've to say, thanks to the GTX 980 I've on. Uhm ... my GTX765m produces the exact same result ... ... just as my last generation notebook ... ... and tbh image quality in that room isn't the best. :p
And you're right ... they should just say nothing at all. ^_^
RoAnnon wrote:
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
I just scanned for sites and I found a C3
The fleet is now forming, FC wants T3s
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
|
Arya Ikahrus
8
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 21:36:07 -
[1448] - Quote
Next patch notes:
- Surprise WiS! Corp office plus minigames chumps! |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
494
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 22:10:24 -
[1449] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Problem with starting small is one side of the fence criticizes them for using it as an excuse to drag out development and get nothing done, and on the other side you get people whining that the small thing "adds nothing to gameplay" and "takes away from spaceship development".
So the only way both sides are content is if CCP suddenly and magically releases a bunch of "meaningful content" all at once so it cant get in the way of anything and doesn't feel like a slow bleedout.... which is obviously impossible.
I mean they might be able to pull something like that off with a really big additional dev team, but seeing as how we've got them working on throwaway VR fads that doesn't seem to be the reality right now. Errr ... no. When CCP tells them "We start small" then people will accept that "they start small".
And then immediately get shelved afterwards, thereby staying small.
Pretty sure most of us have been around the block a few times by now.
What big project by CCP has ever reached its planned, climactic conclusion? In the history of ever? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42843
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 22:26:24 -
[1450] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:What big project by CCP has ever reached its planned, climactic conclusion? In the history of ever? I guess the good thing about Eve as a whole is there is no major climatic conclusion.
It's been in continuous development for more than 15 years now and playable for 13 of those.
Lot's of smaller projects along the way in the overall big project that is Eve, but it's hard to look past the game itself as a major success for CCP.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2464
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 00:13:23 -
[1451] - Quote
Uh-huh.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Scitor Nantom
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
8
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 05:00:37 -
[1452] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:You and your files spying mastery. Please never change. Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:everyone's hopping on the train outright and it's very strange Well, maybe not everyone, but yeah isn't it beautiful. I think EVE's sociology regarding this topic has shifted dramatically over the past two years. There are still some die hard haters, but by and large much of the stigma attatched to things avatar-related has gone. Things are being fed to us slowly and gently, and it's evolving naturally as a result of growing interest. These days it's become okay to enjoy avatars a bit, whereas three years ago you'd be driven from the forums with torches and pitchforks for even mentioning it.
I did mention it on a podcast where I was the guest once, that we want it back (this was right after the Jira riots, etc) :) I never feared the pitchforks back then, I just liked the idea of being able to go "dry walk" somewhere. And look, now there's Star Citizen and many other space based games being developed that will allow all of it. In ship, out of ship, in other vehicles, etc.
I'm hoping to see healthy competition among all of the space games. Wow I hardly speak Out of Character.. *goes back to the mysterious mists of roleplaying* |
Scitor Nantom
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
8
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 05:04:43 -
[1453] - Quote
Wow just noticed this was a topic going all year, and so much great discussion :D |
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
38669
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 06:05:49 -
[1454] - Quote
Scitor Nantom wrote:Wow I hardly speak Out of Character.. *goes back to the mysterious mists of roleplaying* Boss has that effect on people sometimes.
Usually the opposite happens though.
Anyway, The Banana supports walking in stations. Or moonwalking in my case.
n-â fruít-¦-âwl lík-ö h-âm-ö =ƒìî
Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
|
Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 17:26:58 -
[1455] - Quote
I remember the riots in Amarr...it was glorious
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. -Edgar Allan Poe
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2464
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 17:53:48 -
[1456] - Quote
Ginnie wrote:I remember the riots in Amarr...it was glorious There was disappointment about WiS at the time but the riots were about "Greed is good" and all the gold Scorpion / ammo ideas. Despite graphics cards melting left and right, the riots weren't even about that.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Cahir Ceallach
The Raza. RUCA Emperor
27
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:58:58 -
[1457] - Quote
I join EVE becasue i watch trailer Incarna "ooo walking in station i need to play this" but its 5 years and i wait and wait... :( |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2237
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:17:48 -
[1458] - Quote
Cahir Ceallach wrote:I join EVE becasue i watch trailer Incarna "ooo walking in station i need to play this" but its 5 years and i wait and wait... :(
even though they have already said they do not intend to be looking at it again you are still here?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30400
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:41:37 -
[1459] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:I join EVE becasue i watch trailer Incarna "ooo walking in station i need to play this" but its 5 years and i wait and wait... :( even though they have already said they do not intend to be looking at it again you are still here? Our sexyness keeps him hooked. ;)
RoAnnon wrote:
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
I just scanned for sites and I found a C3
The fleet is now forming, FC wants T3s
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
|
Gravemind GER
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 22:35:49 -
[1460] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:
- A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game).
- Players revolted. ------ The forums were filled with flames and rage and ranting. ------ A "substantial" amount of players threatened to unsubscribe (I think it was 10% of the total playerbase)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-5u5JdaBaY
His name was John Turbefield!
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2012/01/eveeeee.jpg |
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
500
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 23:15:25 -
[1461] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:I join EVE becasue i watch trailer Incarna "ooo walking in station i need to play this" but its 5 years and i wait and wait... :( even though they have already said they do not intend to be looking at it again you are still here?
CCP's intentions are rarely backed up with hard results. He may be hoping the same applies as a reverse benefit. |
Arya Ikahrus
12
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 00:17:48 -
[1462] - Quote
The competitors are offering some alluring stuff that CCP will eventually have to take notice of, but they aren't offering the main key. This is a world, they're making games. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
139
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 03:11:50 -
[1463] - Quote
Arya Ikahrus wrote:The competitors are offering some alluring stuff that CCP will eventually have to take notice of, but they aren't offering the main key. This is a world, they're making games. Part of why even though I pledged for Star Citizen and look forward to playing it with my girlfriend, when I want a world to play in I'll still be coming to EVE Online.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
2030
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 07:54:05 -
[1464] - Quote
The world.
A long term vision. What is there after the gates and supposed new colonization? What will be the vision with new producer? CCP will make only SKINs and dresses? I dont think so, and i dont think CCP Seagull will be forever a producer for CCP. Already new vision must be developed, that comes after this one in realization.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Cahir Ceallach
The Raza. RUCA Emperor
27
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 14:51:44 -
[1465] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:I join EVE becasue i watch trailer Incarna "ooo walking in station i need to play this" but its 5 years and i wait and wait... :( even though they have already said they do not intend to be looking at it again you are still here? Our sexyness keeps him hooked. ;)
Im be in here because for now in MMO, EVE is only mature MMO.
But i still wait to play space poker in station lose and win itemes and isk ;) |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30484
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 14:53:04 -
[1466] - Quote
Cahir Ceallach wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:I join EVE becasue i watch trailer Incarna "ooo walking in station i need to play this" but its 5 years and i wait and wait... :( even though they have already said they do not intend to be looking at it again you are still here? Our sexyness keeps him hooked. ;) Im be in here because for now in MMO, EVE is only mature MMO. But i still wait to play space poker in station lose and win itemes and isk ;) Technically speaking it's the *only* MMO.
RoAnnon wrote:
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
I just scanned for sites and I found a C3
The fleet is now forming, FC wants T3s
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
140
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 15:15:48 -
[1467] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:The world.
A long term vision. What is there after the gates and supposed new colonization? What will be the vision with new producer? CCP will make only SKINs and dresses? I dont think so, and i dont think CCP Seagull will be forever a producer for CCP. Already new vision must be developed, that comes after this one in realization. So we haven't even reached the current Future Vision and you're already suggesting we need to be looking beyond it?
I mean, just as an example, Elite: Dangerous just came out with landing on planets with no atmosphere. Most of that gameplay involves just flying around over the surface or driving your rover to look for resources.
One need only go to Twitch to watch people doing that and enjoying themselves for hours. And that's only the first release of landing functionality.
I don't think finding new solar systems and building gates out to them to colonize them is in any danger of getting boring soon after release.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30496
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 15:30:47 -
[1468] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:The world.
A long term vision. What is there after the gates and supposed new colonization? What will be the vision with new producer? CCP will make only SKINs and dresses? I dont think so, and i dont think CCP Seagull will be forever a producer for CCP. Already new vision must be developed, that comes after this one in realization. So we haven't even reached the current Future Vision and you're already suggesting we need to be looking beyond it? I mean, just as an example, Elite: Dangerous just came out with landing on planets with no atmosphere. Most of that gameplay involves just flying around over the surface or driving your rover to look for resources. One need only go to Twitch to watch people doing that and enjoying themselves for hours. And that's only the first release of landing functionality. I don't think finding new solar systems and building gates out to them to colonize them is in any danger of getting boring soon after release. In EVE, someone will come and blow that rover away, declaring ...
THIS IS MY HOUSE!!!!!
E:D is a game, while EVE is a world. (I need to bio that eventually... thanks Nana, I think)
*noms cake*
RoAnnon wrote:
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
I just scanned for sites and I found a C3
The fleet is now forming, FC wants T3s
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
140
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 18:00:19 -
[1469] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:The world.
A long term vision. What is there after the gates and supposed new colonization? What will be the vision with new producer? CCP will make only SKINs and dresses? I dont think so, and i dont think CCP Seagull will be forever a producer for CCP. Already new vision must be developed, that comes after this one in realization. So we haven't even reached the current Future Vision and you're already suggesting we need to be looking beyond it? I mean, just as an example, Elite: Dangerous just came out with landing on planets with no atmosphere. Most of that gameplay involves just flying around over the surface or driving your rover to look for resources. One need only go to Twitch to watch people doing that and enjoying themselves for hours. And that's only the first release of landing functionality. I don't think finding new solar systems and building gates out to them to colonize them is in any danger of getting boring soon after release. In EVE, someone will come and blow that rover away, declaring ... THIS IS MY HOUSE!!!!! E:D is a game, while EVE is a world. (I need to bio that eventually... thanks Nana, I think) *noms cake* That's part of my point, Solecist.
If a "game" can occupy people to that extent, imagine how long it'll take for people to grow tired of exploring a completely unknown world and building empires in entirely new systems.
I mean, if it's even possible to grow tired of that.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30527
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 19:23:14 -
[1470] - Quote
Not sure I follow... you can't grow empires playing solo ...
RoAnnon wrote:
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
I just scanned for sites and I found a C3
The fleet is now forming, FC wants T3s
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
|
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4482
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 14:22:55 -
[1471] - Quote
Meanwhile in other news...
CCP Games Careers wrote:
3D Character Animator
CCP Games is searching for an super skilled 3D Character Animator to build out the visual direction for our new games project. The ideal candidate has experience animating both human and non-humanoid characters. A strong knowledge of animation and rigging, as well as a great grasp of body movement principles, anticipation, timing, spacing, forward / inverse kinematics, and other facets of 2D and 3D animation are highly desirable. We are looking for someone capable of working in a team of highly motivated and driven individuals, animating creatures and characters for both science fiction and fantasy settings.
Responsibilities
Collaborate closely with the Production Lead, Concept Artist and Technical Artist to bring characters to life Animate dynamic, believable, and epic characters Ability to develop and maintain character motion and deformation systems Seeing through an animation from conceptual phase to implementation in a timely manner to the highest quality
Required
Experience working in the Unreal Engine 4 Experience in games development using 3ds Max, Maya or an equivalent 3D program Great skillset capable of tackling creature animation, character animation and everything in-between Highly motivated, self-directed and a great team-player attitude Passion for video games Excellent verbal and written communication skills The ability to bring an idea from conceptual phase to final production Ability to work under pressure and to deadline A thorough understanding of the development process for video game art from concept to implementation
Plus
Strong knowledge of the games industry Strong skills in one or more of the following character creation tasks GÇô modelling, illustration or texturing Have shipped a PC or console title as a character animator Experience in FX and particle animation Art, Design, or equivalent degree
All candidates should include a portfolio or supporting samples of previous work, together with a cover letter in English.
Bolds are mine. New game to be developed by Reykjavik office, will require humanoid and non-humanoid animation on Unreal 4 for SF and Fantasy settings.
I foresee the coming of...
...EVE Online: Space Dragons!
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Angel T Hunter
Forever Winter
36
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 14:28:38 -
[1472] - Quote
I dont think I've ever posted here.. And if I did, I dont remember it. Now.. since I'm a bit drunk I will give y'all my two cents about the subject. This game is about spaceships... why do we need to walk in stations? would it be copl? yes it would.. do we need it? no we do not.. |
Biffa Buttocks
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 00:14:28 -
[1473] - Quote
If they're still fixing the Armageddon (see patch notes) then what chance did anything new like WiS really ever have in the first place? |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
502
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 03:42:19 -
[1474] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Meanwhile in other news...CCP Games Careers wrote:
3D Character Animator
CCP Games is searching for an super skilled 3D Character Animator to build out the visual direction for our new games project. The ideal candidate has experience animating both human and non-humanoid characters. A strong knowledge of animation and rigging, as well as a great grasp of body movement principles, anticipation, timing, spacing, forward / inverse kinematics, and other facets of 2D and 3D animation are highly desirable. We are looking for someone capable of working in a team of highly motivated and driven individuals, animating creatures and characters for both science fiction and fantasy settings.
Responsibilities
Collaborate closely with the Production Lead, Concept Artist and Technical Artist to bring characters to life Animate dynamic, believable, and epic characters Ability to develop and maintain character motion and deformation systems Seeing through an animation from conceptual phase to implementation in a timely manner to the highest quality
Required
Experience working in the Unreal Engine 4 Experience in games development using 3ds Max, Maya or an equivalent 3D program Great skillset capable of tackling creature animation, character animation and everything in-between Highly motivated, self-directed and a great team-player attitude Passion for video games Excellent verbal and written communication skills The ability to bring an idea from conceptual phase to final production Ability to work under pressure and to deadline A thorough understanding of the development process for video game art from concept to implementation
Plus
Strong knowledge of the games industry Strong skills in one or more of the following character creation tasks GÇô modelling, illustration or texturing Have shipped a PC or console title as a character animator Experience in FX and particle animation Art, Design, or equivalent degree
All candidates should include a portfolio or supporting samples of previous work, together with a cover letter in English.
Bolds are mine. New game to be developed by Reykjavik office, will require humanoid and non-humanoid animation on Unreal 4 for SF and Fantasy settings. I foresee the coming of... ...EVE Online: Space Dragons!
At the very least hired and potentially paid by the Reykjavik office. They transfer people around all the time within the company, for example Rattati running the show for Dust despite it being a Shanghai thing.
Could be we're finally getting an independent ambulation client. Could also be foreshadowing of continued Dust work.
Could be both. Could be neither. Could be more VR stupidity.
The world may never know. A lot of CCP's ideas never take root. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
144
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 15:01:06 -
[1475] - Quote
Interesting description for the job offer. Sadly it's probably unlikely we'd hear anything about who they've hired or what the project is until a year from now at least.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2470
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 03:28:14 -
[1476] - Quote
Angel T Hunter wrote:... This game is about spaceships... why do we need to walk in stations? ... Bored newbies who are station camped might want something to do, for example.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Pix Severus
Mew Age Outpaws
2025
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 03:38:02 -
[1477] - Quote
CCP Games Careers wrote:and non-humanoid characters
Animated Fedos confirmed.
My lord.
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
144
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 15:17:36 -
[1478] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:CCP Games Careers wrote:and non-humanoid characters Animated Fedos confirmed. Waste disposal simulation confirmed.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Paladin Genghis Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 06:21:26 -
[1479] - Quote
Walking in stations should be their #1 priority. I'm sure we all agree on this one fact.
And an actual animation to get inside the pod (naked or in underwear) and have a gantry put it inside the ship. And we absolutely must be able to buy furniture and other useless crap to decorate the rooms. And have little underpaid workers placing the items into the rooms every time we dock.
But wait THERE'S MORE!!!
Let's not stop there. We need walking in ships as well. We should be able to exit the capsule while it's in the ship and fraternize with the crew. Go to engineering, the bridge and all that stuff. And when your ship goes boom some of the crew may or may not make it to the escape pods in time and die. And then you'll be all like, "Damn, I was just playing poker with that guy".
And for capital ships other players should be able to come aboard. Obviously, titans will be like stations.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2472
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 06:30:58 -
[1480] - Quote
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:... Let's not stop there. ... So much sarcasm and yet, such a convoluted scenario you paint there. Makes me think you really wanted this stuff and now you are bitter because you are unlikely to ever get it.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
|
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
863
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 06:36:18 -
[1481] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Angel T Hunter wrote:... This game is about spaceships... why do we need to walk in stations? ... Bored newbies who are station camped might want something to do, for example.
EVE has never been about space ships. Spaceships are just the tool to play actual social game EVE is.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2472
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 06:49:21 -
[1482] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:EVE has never been about space ships. Spaceships are just the tool to play actual social game EVE is. Well, let us get out asteroids and IRC then, shall we?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Scitor Nantom
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
12
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 06:58:56 -
[1483] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ginnie wrote:I remember the riots in Amarr...it was glorious There was disappointment about WiS at the time but the riots were about "Greed is good" and all the gold Scorpion / ammo ideas. Despite graphics cards melting left and right, the riots weren't even about that.
Yes, but at that time there was also the WiS and all that came with it.. Incarna, our new character creation, monocles :) , and all the clothing items, etc.
I also recall a corp mate at the time, going with a few others and smart bombing Jita, heh, saw it on video!
We were from NullSec, we didn't care about our security status. |
Scitor Nantom
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
12
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 07:01:02 -
[1484] - Quote
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Walking in stations should be their #1 priority. I'm sure we all agree on this one fact.
And an actual animation to get inside the pod (naked or in underwear) and have a gantry put it inside the ship. And we absolutely must be able to buy furniture and other useless crap to decorate the rooms. And have little underpaid workers placing the items into the rooms every time we dock.
But wait THERE'S MORE!!!
Let's not stop there. We need walking in ships as well. We should be able to exit the capsule while it's in the ship and fraternize with the crew. Go to engineering, the bridge and all that stuff. And when your ship goes boom some of the crew may or may not make it to the escape pods in time and die. And then you'll be all like, "Damn, I was just playing poker with that guy".
And for capital ships other players should be able to come aboard. Obviously, titans will be like stations.
There you go! You caught the spirit ;) |
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
863
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 07:01:48 -
[1485] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:EVE has never been about space ships. Spaceships are just the tool to play actual social game EVE is. Well, let us get out asteroids and IRC then, shall we?
you can not shoot your IRC partner in asteroids to make your point valid |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
503
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 08:09:58 -
[1486] - Quote
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Walking in stations should be their #1 priority. I'm sure we all agree on this one fact.
Not so much, no.
Solecist Project wrote:Not sure I follow... you can't grow empires playing solo ...
Done it. |
Paladin Genghis Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 09:38:01 -
[1487] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:... Let's not stop there. ... So much sarcasm and yet, such a convoluted scenario you paint there. Makes me think you really wanted this stuff and now you are bitter because you are unlikely to ever get it.
You bet your sweet sweet cloned ass I want that. Also, weren't we promised hardcore sexual intercourse on stations?!?! I wants meh space poon!!! Artemis Tyrannos is asking for it!!!
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
148
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 13:24:46 -
[1488] - Quote
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:... Let's not stop there. ... So much sarcasm and yet, such a convoluted scenario you paint there. Makes me think you really wanted this stuff and now you are bitter because you are unlikely to ever get it. You bet your sweet sweet cloned ass I want that. Also, weren't we promised hardcore sexual intercourse on stations?!?! I wants meh space poon!!! Artemis Tyrannos is asking for it!!! inb4 Age Gate pops up and asks for your birthday when hitting the "Go To Quarters" button.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
|
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
264
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 14:06:07 -
[1489] - Quote
@lunettelulu7
Call me for your combat booster needs.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2475
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 18:39:51 -
[1490] - Quote
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:... Let's not stop there. ... So much sarcasm and yet, such a convoluted scenario you paint there. Makes me think you really wanted this stuff and now you are bitter because you are unlikely to ever get it. You bet your sweet sweet cloned ass I want that. Also, weren't we promised hardcore sexual intercourse on stations?!?! I wants meh space poon!!! Artemis Tyrannos is asking for it!!! Tinder meets EVE and WiS becomes incredibly profitable.
"See you at Evesterdam sweetie, I will be the 500lb indeterminate gender with the plastic models of space ships hung from me like I am a Christmas tree."
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
|
Solecist Project
Little Fat Mexican Appreciation Society
31331
|
Posted - 2016.01.12 00:10:51 -
[1491] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Walking in stations should be their #1 priority. I'm sure we all agree on this one fact.
Not so much, no. Solecist Project wrote:Not sure I follow... you can't grow empires playing solo ... Done it. Nope, you didn't. That would be a one-man-empire, which is none. You needed help and people around you.
Dismissed. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1836
|
Posted - 2016.01.12 03:50:38 -
[1492] - Quote
If they do WIS I want a hover board. Walking around some of those stations will take longer than flying from Ren to Jita in a freighter on autopilot, without the excitement of CODE. |
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
38906
|
Posted - 2016.01.12 04:40:14 -
[1493] - Quote
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:... Let's not stop there. ... So much sarcasm and yet, such a convoluted scenario you paint there. Makes me think you really wanted this stuff and now you are bitter because you are unlikely to ever get it. You bet your sweet sweet cloned ass I want that. Also, weren't we promised hardcore sexual intercourse on stations?!?! I wants meh space poon!!! Artemis Tyrannos is asking for it!!! Hot.
n-â fruít-¦-âwl lík-ö h-âm-ö =ƒìî
Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
2737
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 12:34:59 -
[1494] - Quote
I really dont know what to think. Part of me would like to see other players avatars in station environment, and when I saw this new CCP career offers, it rekindled a small candle of hope. But then it immediately started to flutter, as I know CCP have other plans for future, for EVE.
Maybe completely other game, in a world of EVE, something what can acompany Valkyrie on Oculus.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9784
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 18:31:45 -
[1495] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I really dont know what to think. Part of me would like to see other players avatars in station environment, and when I saw this new CCP career offers, it rekindled a small candle of hope. But then it immediately started to flutter, as I know CCP have other plans for future, for EVE. Maybe completely other game, in a world of EVE, something what can acompany Valkyrie on Oculus. WIS + Oculus + Adults Only areas in stations = doubling of the player base in a few weeks.
Just sayin'
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
505
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 21:15:14 -
[1496] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Walking in stations should be their #1 priority. I'm sure we all agree on this one fact.
Not so much, no. Solecist Project wrote:Not sure I follow... you can't grow empires playing solo ... Done it. Nope, you didn't. That would be a one-man-empire, which is none. You needed help and people around you. Dismissed.
No, you simply need people to do what you tell them to do. That doesn't mean playing with them.
You have much to learn about efficiency. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
2818
|
Posted - 2016.01.16 08:37:11 -
[1497] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Walking in stations should be their #1 priority. I'm sure we all agree on this one fact.
Not so much, no. Solecist Project wrote:Not sure I follow... you can't grow empires playing solo ... Done it. Nope, you didn't. That would be a one-man-empire, which is none. You needed help and people around you. Dismissed. No, you simply need people to do what you tell them to do. That doesn't mean playing with them. You have much to learn about efficiency. Its still not one man empire. I dont see how it would be if you dont need people that listen to you. Empire is not about one man telling others what to do. Its about all these people listening.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
505
|
Posted - 2016.01.16 09:57:58 -
[1498] - Quote
Never said anything about a one man empire.
I said one man can build an empire without having to play with others, and that holds true to this day.
It's all about how you choose to delegate.
Now granted, I can choose to get involved when I'm really bored but its hardly necessary. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
2826
|
Posted - 2016.01.16 11:06:10 -
[1499] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote: I said one man can build an empire without having to play with others, and that holds true to this day.
Listening and telling is interaction with others. You can say its not playing, but there you have it, you need others to have empire. Else its just a crazy man talking to himself. I think this is not solo building. One can say he build it himself, but in fact they built it together. He just take claim for something other people do. Just like Steve Jobs.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
77
|
Posted - 2016.01.16 11:22:39 -
[1500] - Quote
I firmly believe that establishing 'Walking in Stations' is one of those things that has the potential to capture a whole new audience and increasea our subs. This is of course dependent upon being able to "live" in stations and have a lot of stuff to do, as in it being a whole new game, where don't necessarily need to fly space ships. |
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5697
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 17:49:43 -
[1501] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Cahir Ceallach wrote:I join EVE becasue i watch trailer Incarna "ooo walking in station i need to play this" but its 5 years and i wait and wait... :( even though they have already said they do not intend to be looking at it again you are still here? Our sexyness keeps him hooked. ;) Im be in here because for now in MMO, EVE is only mature MMO. But i still wait to play space poker in station lose and win itemes and isk ;) Technically speaking it's the *only* MMO.
Project Entropia is out since a long time, it's not some 3k online indie stuff. It's also an harsher PvP MMO than EvE is (yes I have played it).
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5697
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 17:51:33 -
[1502] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:The world.
A long term vision. What is there after the gates and supposed new colonization? What will be the vision with new producer? CCP will make only SKINs and dresses? I dont think so, and i dont think CCP Seagull will be forever a producer for CCP. Already new vision must be developed, that comes after this one in realization. So we haven't even reached the current Future Vision and you're already suggesting we need to be looking beyond it? I mean, just as an example, Elite: Dangerous just came out with landing on planets with no atmosphere. Most of that gameplay involves just flying around over the surface or driving your rover to look for resources. One need only go to Twitch to watch people doing that and enjoying themselves for hours. And that's only the first release of landing functionality. I don't think finding new solar systems and building gates out to them to colonize them is in any danger of getting boring soon after release.
This is quite false, there are plenty of missions to do on planets, save / salvage / rescue / attack bases, shut down generators in bases and so on.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
8
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 18:25:25 -
[1503] - Quote
I hope for WiS one day. I may have posted in here before but don't feel like looking up past posts at work.
I'd like our CQ to be something like Playstation Home was supposed to be, minus the ungodly prices for items. A majority of stuff should be obtainable through ISK, with premium stuff for NES. I see a reason for in station environments to be a place to chill and do mini activities. Sure, it's not space or a spaceship but who cares?itd be optional content anyway As long as long standing in game problems get fixed by CCP first.
Yes, I may be an outlier who thinks is possible and feasible. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2481
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 22:27:31 -
[1504] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Kuronaga wrote: I said one man can build an empire without having to play with others, and that holds true to this day.
Listening and telling is interaction with others. If they are being delegated to then they are working for him and not necessarily with him as, "with," can mean an equal relationship.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
2996
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 23:37:51 -
[1505] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Kuronaga wrote: I said one man can build an empire without having to play with others, and that holds true to this day.
Listening and telling is interaction with others. If they are being delegated to then they are working for him and not necessarily with him as, "with," can mean an equal relationship. Are you implying these are brainless automatons? Since when lobotomized monkeys form empires?
If he is doing everything himself, its for sure a zoo or a farm, not empire.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2481
|
Posted - 2016.01.18 00:03:38 -
[1506] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Are you implying these are brainless automatons? Since when lobotomized monkeys form empires? Have you met any Goons? Perhaps you need to do so in a WiS environment to fully comprehend this phenomenon!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4337
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 01:15:54 -
[1507] - Quote
Remember Sid Meier's Pirates! ? The ship combat and the fencing action were kind of hard, but nothing compared to the dance floor action. One derp, and you were kaput with the Governor's Beautiful Daughter, go back to Go. WIS has to be like that.
You're trying to conquer me
You never will conquer me
-Delroy Wilson
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3067
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 13:06:23 -
[1508] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Remember Sid Meier's Pirates! ? The ship combat and the fencing action were kind of hard, but nothing compared to the dance floor action. One derp, and you were kaput with the Governor's Beautiful Daughter, go back to Go. WIS has to be like that. But with exotic dancers.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
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Djsaeu
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 13:36:15 -
[1509] - Quote
Beats me, WIS would be ok, it was used in Earth & Beyond although there were no private quarters, there were multiple places to go. There was a bar, and trade center along with processing stations, mission stations, with the NPC's you could kinda sorta talk to, production stations, even a news center where you could hear the latest news around the universe.
I have no idea how Westwood managed it but it worked really great. The engine to drive it was sold and used to create the Sims. When E & B shut down I was given a months sub to EVE but did not get to use it.
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Aina Aideron
Night Raven Task Force United Interests
41
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 18:09:46 -
[1510] - Quote
A way to have some wis features, would be to add them to some Legion areas, rather than a separate expansion. You have a central hub and market place before missions, meeting up with your corp and others in your faction, change gear with others, planning missions, journey to other planets together. Maybe one could think of wis like Dust with more opportunities to do what you want and more possibilities for interaction. |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2485
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 19:41:04 -
[1511] - Quote
Just imagine how immersive the role play could be, Caldari gathered for a board meeting, the Gallente having a wild night, Amarr all at an auction for sl-
I don't see how it could harm the game to better integrate it with Dust.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
50
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 23:38:20 -
[1512] - Quote
1501 - Kill this subject already.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Captain Tardbar
Interstellar Incorporated
1139
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 00:10:55 -
[1513] - Quote
If you had Star Citizen, you'd be walking in stations right now!
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
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Rico Sabezan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 04:07:39 -
[1514] - Quote
star citizen is horrible. Just uninstalled the game and deleted, then sold my account for isk. get out now while you can. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
43634
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 04:23:28 -
[1515] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:If you had Star Citizen, you'd be walking in stations right now! I've seen the videos. Looks interesting.
How many people are on one server together?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3323
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 06:02:35 -
[1516] - Quote
ell oh ell I just logged on to see if there was a WIS thread in GD after all this time and THERE IS! Wow. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2486
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 17:32:35 -
[1517] - Quote
Gogela wrote:ell oh ell I just logged on to see if there was a WIS thread in GD after all this time and THERE IS! Wow. We are the stalwart guard.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Rico Sabezan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 23:17:54 -
[1518] - Quote
after they get all these other side projects and balancing done, will they resume the walking in station stuff? or is this officially dead? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2487
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 23:32:38 -
[1519] - Quote
Rico Sabezan wrote:... or is this officially dead? Probably unless they better integrate with Dust.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
DaReaper
Net 7
2738
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 00:27:30 -
[1520] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:If you had Star Citizen, you'd be walking in stations right now! I've seen the videos. Looks interesting. How many people are on one server together?
like 16 in an instance if you are lucky
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
|
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Whambot
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 03:01:46 -
[1521] - Quote
Quote:.A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game).
...fast forward to now and they finally succeed with skill injections |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4524
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 03:05:06 -
[1522] - Quote
Rico Sabezan wrote:after they get all these other side projects and balancing done, will they resume the walking in station stuff? or is this officially dead? dead, buried and cremated |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1855
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 03:25:42 -
[1523] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:If you had Star Citizen, you'd be walking in stations right now! I've seen the videos. Looks interesting. How many people are on one server together? like 16 in an instance if you are lucky
My impression was that unlike EVE (and the still struggling to get off the ground fantasy single shard game PFO) they intend to divide any battle into smaller instances. Hence if you board a ship it will be a single entity in the fleet battle and the internal FPS battle will be a separate instance. Never been tempted to actually try it and see how this works in practice but it sounds messy.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3303
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 13:47:30 -
[1524] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:DaReaper wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:If you had Star Citizen, you'd be walking in stations right now! I've seen the videos. Looks interesting. How many people are on one server together? like 16 in an instance if you are lucky My impression was that unlike EVE (and the still struggling to get off the ground fantasy single shard game PFO) they intend to divide any battle into smaller instances. Hence if you board a ship it will be a single entity in the fleet battle and the internal FPS battle will be a separate instance. Never been tempted to actually try it and see how this works in practice but it sounds messy. Already they are talking about making precautions to block the people from boarding other's ships, because of "griefing".
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2488
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 18:02:06 -
[1525] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:... Already they are talking about making precautions to block the people from boarding other's ships, because of "griefing". ... and this is why I push for nice things like WiS in EVE
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Aina Aideron
Night Raven Task Force United Interests
43
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 19:28:48 -
[1526] - Quote
If it is possible to have the result of what's happening in an instanced area affect eve, then it could be a way to have a connection between wis and eve. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4347
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 21:44:06 -
[1527] - Quote
This might possibly have been discussed somewhere in the first 1,050 posts, butGǪ
Would a single shard server be able to handle: -Many human figures, with many animated moving parts. Spaceship models are rigid, relatively simple models. Some do have a few simple stock animation sequences. But the server doesnGÇÖt have to deal with animating complex human figures, in response to live twitch-control by live players.
-Also rendering 3D station interiors, on the fly. Not background textures off in the distance, as in many MMOs, and not space nebula backdrops. 3D structures, with detailed skins or whatever the details are called, plus lighting.
-And at the same time, handle all of the regular EVE things that go on outside of WIS.
Other MMOs with animated Player Character figures handle the rendering job by using multiple servers/game worlds. If, say, 10% of EVE players are WIS at once, could the server handle it? Would WIS in Jita have to be TiDi?
I suppose CCP considered all of this before they announced GÇ£Ambulation.GÇ¥ But IGÇÖm curious about the server load issues that would be involved in WIS.
You're trying to conquer me
You never will conquer me
-Delroy Wilson
|
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
21
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 21:54:38 -
[1528] - Quote
Ok the stuff I'm going to say is probably wrong in places as I know absolutely nothing about the server architecture, so these are just best guesses - and nobody apart from a handful of CCP programmers can do more than answer your questions with anything other than guesses...but nonetheless here I go...
Khergit Deserters wrote:This might possibly have been discussed somewhere in the first 1,050 posts, butGǪ
Would a single shard server be able to handle: -Many human figures, with many animated moving parts. Spaceship models are rigid, relatively simple models. Some do have a few simple stock animation sequences. But the server doesnGÇÖt have to deal with animating complex human figures, in response to live twitch-control by live players.
The server itself would probably only track the position/direction, it would be down to the client to track the animations. So maybe not a massive issue.
Khergit Deserters wrote: -Also rendering 3D station interiors, on the fly. Not background textures off in the distance, as in many MMOs, and not space nebula backdrops. 3D structures, with detailed skins or whatever the details are called, plus lighting.
-And at the same time, handle all of the regular EVE things that go on outside of WIS.
Its mainly the client that has to worry about 3d station interiors, not the server. So it might not be a big deal.
Khergit Deserters wrote: Other MMOs with animated Player Character figures handle the rendering job by using multiple servers/game worlds. If, say, 10% of EVE players are WIS at once, could the server handle it? Would WIS in Jita have to be TiDi?
I suppose CCP considered all of this before they announced GÇ£Ambulation.GÇ¥ But IGÇÖm curious about the server load issues that would be involved in WIS.
Bearing in mind each player can control one avatar or one ship, in the best case, with one-second WIS ticks the load would be barely different to the load from the character controlling a spaceship. In actual fact for walking around you would probably want ticks at closer to 10 per second so as not to look jerky. So there might be a higher load from players moving around. On the other hand, station interiors might well run on a different server to solar systems, so the load might not affect the solar system.
Anyway, I think WIS would be cool. And what would be even cooler would be if you could dock up in a station, then join a DUST or Valkyrie battle from that station!
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3742
|
Posted - 2016.01.21 21:54:45 -
[1529] - Quote
The server would, but our graphics cards? That is not clear. CCP said they had multi-avatars working in test setups, but they never said how much graphics horsepower was needed. They also said the avatar engine turns down the detail as needed to get reasonable performance. But even after all that, would it work? We don't know.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
508
|
Posted - 2016.01.22 04:46:31 -
[1530] - Quote
Graphics cards are a good bit stronger now than they were when Incarna first launched.
Of course, not in everyone's case... but some people are stubborn as hell and you just can't do a thing for them when they refuse to upgrade. |
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Pix Severus
Empty You
2382
|
Posted - 2016.01.22 04:52:26 -
[1531] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Just imagine how immersive the role play could be, Caldari gathered for a board meeting, the Gallente having a wild night, Amarr all at an auction for sl-
I don't see how it could harm the game to better integrate it with Dust.
I'd be the creepy guy sat in the shadowy corner touching myself during the whole thing.
My lord.
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Drammie Askold
The Senate and People of Rome Kids With Guns Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2016.01.22 11:12:06 -
[1532] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:I'd be the creepy guy sat in the shadowy corner touching myself during the whole thing.
This is the most insightful post in the entire thread. It's EVE for crying out loud, if there's a mechanic that hasn't been twisted/warped/perverted into something illegal/immoral/fattening (delete as appropriate) it's because CCP hasn't released it yet.
Face it, there would a rush to see who could be first to get their toon to walk around naked or be replaced by a giant penis! While this might be sorta interesting, I doubt CCP would agree. Leave the dead horse alone.
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Kellie Dusette
Isogen 5
11603
|
Posted - 2016.01.22 11:18:35 -
[1533] - Quote
Drammie Askold wrote: Leave the dead horse alone.
What for it matter if is a dead?
Is for not like can make feel it.
GÖÑ -¦-öGäôGäô+¦-ö
pàñ
pàñ
-öGäô+¦-é-ö -ü++-ü-ò || dus-ött-ö squ+¦dGäó || -¦-â-â-ü
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Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
140
|
Posted - 2016.01.22 12:06:30 -
[1534] - Quote
Kellie Dusette wrote:What for it matter if is a dead?
Is for not like can make feel it.
I agree with whatever this says. |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
521
|
Posted - 2016.01.22 12:47:42 -
[1535] - Quote
Poddington Bare wrote:Kellie Dusette wrote:What for it matter if is a dead?
Is for not like can make feel it.
I agree with whatever this says.
Did I ever tell you that I started out bald like you (before we got the fancy character creator) ?
I carefully listened to what the voice said in this intro movie:
Quote:What you dare to become rests on your will to be bald. Dare to be bald pilot.
Anyway, I rather beat a dead horse than a live one ... I dislike animal cruelty. So I join your sentiment to agree with whatever K.D. said.
Mmh ... Kellie, are you the one behind the KD ratio that is so important in FPS games ?
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2491
|
Posted - 2016.01.24 17:47:36 -
[1536] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote: ...Mmh ... Kellie, are you the one behind the KD ratio that is so important in FPS games ? I remember Kill / Death ratios being something in Quake 1. I used to make sure to target the top killer and not care how many times I died.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17414
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 14:23:15 -
[1537] - Quote
In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13454
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 14:26:35 -
[1538] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming?
Silly Silly Malcanis, you can't kill even the most unrealistic dream with logic and observable reality. If you cold there would be no politicians or wedding chapels |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2492
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 14:30:42 -
[1539] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming? I can be told with absolutely certainty, face to face by Hilmar that CCP will make it their policy to never, ever add any more code to Walking in Stations and it will not stop me asking for more and supporting ideas that would add to it.
Your detractive effort are futile.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4590
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 14:44:30 -
[1540] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Malcanis wrote:In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming? I can be told with absolutely certainty, face to face by Hilmar that CCP will make it their policy to never, ever add any more code to Walking in Stations and it will not stop me asking for more and supporting ideas that would add to it. Your detractive effort are futile.
Nasrudin was caught in the act and sentenced to die. Hauled up before the king, he was asked by the Royal Presence: "Is there any reason at all why I shouldn't have your head off right now?" To which he replied: "Oh, King, live forever! Know that I, the mullah Nasrudin, am the greatest teacher in your kingdom, and it would surely be a waste to kill such a great teacher. So skilled am I that I could even teach your favorite horse to sing, given a year to work on it." The king was amused, and said: "Very well then, you move into the stable immediately, and if the horse isn't singing a year from now, we'll think of something interesting to do with you."
As he was returning to his cell to pick up his spare rags, his cellmate remonstrated with him: "Now that was really stupid. You know you can't teach that horse to sing, no matter how long you try." Nasrudin's response: "Not at all. I have a year now that I didn't have before. And a lot of things can happen in a year. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die.
"And, who knows? Maybe the horse will sing."
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13454
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 14:48:11 -
[1541] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Malcanis wrote:In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming? I can be told with absolutely certainty, face to face by Hilmar that CCP will make it their policy to never, ever add any more code to Walking in Stations and it will not stop me asking for more and supporting ideas that would add to it. Your detractive effort are futile.
It's your life to waste in futility. Have at it.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2492
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 15:24:44 -
[1542] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's your life to waste in futility. Have at it. Unless humanity shifts drastically, both in social constructs and specie's objectives then most of our lives are futile and a waste. You are welcome to believe that the fruit of your loins will somehow achieve something that billions are failing to do and once they are an adults you can end your futile existence. So, yeah, we all while away our time on this mud ball in different ways.Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:"And, who knows? Maybe the horse will sing." (The horse may also be a method of escape).
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17414
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 15:46:12 -
[1543] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Malcanis wrote:In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming? I can be told with absolutely certainty, face to face by Hilmar that CCP will make it their policy to never, ever add any more code to Walking in Stations and it will not stop me asking for more and supporting ideas that would add to it. Your detractive effort are futile.
I had no such hope for you, but perhaps there might be one or two posters in the thread who can still see reality in the far horizon.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
523
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 15:57:05 -
[1544] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Malcanis wrote:In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming? I can be told with absolutely certainty, face to face by Hilmar that CCP will make it their policy to never, ever add any more code to Walking in Stations and it will not stop me asking for more and supporting ideas that would add to it. Your detractive effort are futile. I had no such hope for you, but perhaps there might be one or two posters in the thread who can still see reality in the far horizon.
Actually, the only reality is that the future has not been written yet.
I'd like to add, that it isn't always about how far you can see, but also about how wide your perspective is.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Nadja Hawk
Out of Pod Exploration
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 19:42:11 -
[1545] - Quote
in case noone els said it, welcome back |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2493
|
Posted - 2016.01.26 22:22:04 -
[1546] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I had no such hope for you, but perhaps there might be one or two posters in the thread who can still see reality in the far horizon. The reality is that WiS looks highly unlikely. The reality is that there will always be people that will want it finished.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
|
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1052
|
Posted - 2016.01.26 23:50:04 -
[1547] - Quote
I think if the put it for a release it will give the player base a very big boost. If there is something you can do in WiS. But the problem is, do we need it? We as eve players? i guess not. But it is cool to walk to other "avatar" and say hi. |
Captain IQ
Innocent Traders Ltd
70
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 13:59:46 -
[1548] - Quote
Of course it would be great it would be a massive hit.
In another 5 years when there's only a couple of thousand playing this game, Planetary Bombardments will be regarded as the high point and the dropping of WiS will be regarded as the tipping point.
Imagine an EVE2 without it, for todays gamers it would regarded as a basic requirement. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 14:20:13 -
[1549] - Quote
Captain IQ wrote:Of course it would be great it would be a massive hit.
In another 5 years when there's only a couple of thousand playing this game, Planetary Bombardments will be regarded as the high point and the dropping of WiS will be regarded as the tipping point.
Imagine an EVE2 without it, for todays gamers it would regarded as a basic requirement.
I think it would be a flop.
Mainly because there's a lot of stations and a lot of those station have very few visitors if any. So instead of WiS it would be WiaBCC (walking in a bigger captain's cabin).
Only way to even get it to remotely useful would be to have a portal that sends you to another station one that is used by many other stations. Which would have to be at least 1 per region due to the markets
But if it's just WiS then it is most likely not worth the invested time or resources. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 15:08:10 -
[1550] - Quote
Maybe WiS isn't the way to go.
Instead use the portal from your captain's cabin (once one is installed) to go to pleasure hubs (no market trading as that's regional). That way you can still meet other player characters and do some gambling or whatever else is available. |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2497
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 22:45:31 -
[1551] - Quote
Avvy wrote:I think it would be a flop. Mainly because there's a lot of stations and a lot of those stations have very few visitors if any. .... - Trade hubs, - Mining / ratting systems - Staging systems.
Does the average social players really dock consistently in anything else?
Dust being right there, it feels like the social overlap is right through the door.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
|
Amber Starview
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 00:00:33 -
[1552] - Quote
People talk about time and resources like its a major thing to make a bigger room than what we already have |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
524
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 00:11:00 -
[1553] - Quote
Amber Starview wrote:People talk about time and resources like its a major thing to make a bigger room than what we already have
Or put a pet in it.
A cat that always runs right in front of your legs while you walk, to get your attention. Or maybe a dog that leaps on the couch whenever you sit down.
... and you need to refill the automated food dispenser with player made pet food charges to tie WIS into the economy.
Yeah, I could see that: Buy pet for AUR but keep it alive with ISK. Catfood for the cat, dogfood for the dog.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
|
Pix Severus
Empty You
2537
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 00:54:16 -
[1554] - Quote
I will now interrupt this thread to bring you the obligatory Walken in Stations pun.
My lord.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2363
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 07:06:57 -
[1555] - Quote
I'm a bit of a litmus test for great ideas. If I like or support it probably eventually going to be implemented. That's not trolling or arrogance either.
Remember way back when I complained about not being able to refit in null as a soloer - we shortly thereafter got the ability to do that with mobile depots.
Remember when I complained and was flamed for suggesting jump drive fatigue and was told it'd never happen and a year later...
Remember when I complained about no docking rights in most of null. Everyone flamed me and told me they'd never change... You get the idea.
Other things I was flamed and ridiculed over:
Capital docking Small gangs affecting sov Capital force projection
The list is long. Fact. If you make enough noise and you're ideas are articulated coherently and logically anything is possible.
In relation to WIS it doesn't matter at all if you like or dislike the idea. The only thing that matters is a) it'll increase subscriptions significantly over those it loses and make CCP enough money to make implementing worthwhile and ( b) there is someone in charge at CCP who recognises (a). If those two things exist then yes WIS will happen. If not then it won't.
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it's a bad idea it could just be a lack of (b) existing but that may change.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3918
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 11:07:04 -
[1556] - Quote
But the WIS has already happened. Well... kinda. You have your door. You cant even kick it and cry all day standing in front of it.
"Implementation" is of the essence.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2497
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 12:26:00 -
[1557] - Quote
Amber Starview wrote:People talk about time and resources like its a major thing to make a bigger room than what we already have We could have a tool to submit player designed assets. Then CCP can request improvements (That can be done with notes attached to reference points from the asset) or discard it with a short reason. Then it is a matter of putting the pieces together and scripting some stuff (again though, most of that can be put onto Dust's architecture.)
So, even if one guy was putting in two days of work every week or two, assembling some stuff and looking through the submissions, it would be taking us a lot further forward than the locked door.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Tenebria Gallentis
Whitewash Holdings
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 13:25:50 -
[1558] - Quote
WIS is a cool idea but something that would probably get old really quick. What would be nice to see however, is not "walking" but something to give the stations (and other structures) some depth. Right now, the station is just a big model floating in space (that you can occasionally see through). I think stations should be more grand than it currently is.
just a few ideas:
- docking/undocking should be a big deal. Realistically, you would need to be provisioned a CQ and parking space when you dock. Something feels wrong about letting you dock/undock 10 times in a row within a span of a minute. a good docking animation would also be nice (imagine shooting a docking ship while the gates close and your missiles hit the gate).
- it just makes sense for stations to have finite capacity. You need parking space for all those ships (most players have multiple ships too). Same goes for personal/corp hangars/cargo. I think space should be rented out to players (subject to availability) and make a time limited guest hangar where people can do repairs etc. This would make some stations more favorable than others (considering space, location, services, inhabitants etc). This will also prevent some systems from having too many residents.
- Have simulators in stations so we can practice flying our ships against NPC targets without risking our ship.
- I don't see the reason why we have the guest list in the station. Unless you own the station, it doesn't make sense to have access to this information (I also don't believe local should list all people in system for the same reasons). A video feed or "window" to the outside of the station would make more sense.
- I agree that windows and menus are quicker and make tasks/chores easier. However, they don't need to look ugly or dated. One idea is to make aura to be more like jarvis and accessible through some sort of interface (like a visor?). We can connect to station services or open contextual menus depending on what we are looking at (useful for combat too!). I know, its essentially asking for a revamp in the UI (which I think eve badly needs).
- phyiscal bodies are of little significance to capsuleers IMHO. We change bodies just like we change clothes and there is no real incentive for players to see each other face to face (aside taking photos and throwing potshots at the ******* who blew your ship). So while I think the idea of a common area or inviting people to your CQ is cool, a personal CQ is good enough. I do like the idea of gambling out my ISK, but doesn't mean I want to walk down to the casino every time I have the urge. but...
- What would be cool is have important events in eve be in some sort of in game auditorium (limited seats, hence limited tickets - limit 1 per account or representatives by player vote or lucky draw). Players can do "whatever they want" inside the auditorium but must obey some rules (cannot enter stage unless called or cannot interrupt speaker) or be shoved out by guards (creating a scene... content?). Video feed can also be streamed in youtube. point of this is making players more involved in releases/announcements so they can react on the spot.
- not related to structures but... more cockpit like flight controls please!! also, would be nice if there isn't any concept of up or down in eve - in space there is no "right way up"
- have some space radio station (player or ccp operated)
- employ a real person as concord police director. So he can make a campaign against evil, at least what he thinks evil - CONCORDE may have its own agenda... players can also call in and report suspicious activity so the police can be ready (at their discretion). Of course, to balance this out, police should have limited resources and not be invincible (at least in low sec).. it just feels dumb that pirates can perform the same offense over and over again in the same area. They should be more creative (or in low sec, use overwhelming force, to scare the police away) to continue operating. For example, police could be waiting to ambush a small gate camp in low sec and strike as soon as they pounce. Of course this needs a lot of thinking to balance things out but I think everyone can agree that CONCORDE is really dumb and useless in preventing crimes - some level of competency will keep pirates on their toes.
sorry if my english is bad and for the wall of text. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3948
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 14:18:29 -
[1559] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Amber Starview wrote:People talk about time and resources like its a major thing to make a bigger room than what we already have We could have a tool to submit player designed assets. Then CCP can request improvements (That can be done with notes attached to reference points from the asset) or discard it with a short reason. Then it is a matter of putting the pieces together and scripting some stuff (again though, most of that can be put onto Dust's architecture.) So, even if one guy was putting in two days of work every week or two, assembling some stuff and looking through the submissions, it would be taking us a lot further forward than the locked door.
I am not a game designer or developer, so bare with me, but I know few things (just common sense and watching here and there how games are made). Lets see about implementing a bar into what we have now. Together with developing a tools for more WIS levels in future, when they are at it.
THE TECHNOLOGY: We know CCP used quick prototyping earlier. When actually commiting to something they use their own "homemade" CARBON framework to work on things.
THE IDEA: One lead/concept artist working together closely with one game/level designer could form a frame to the team. When their concept is prepared and thought out, they have testing engine, and could quick prototype in it with the help of 1 programmer. That is 3 people on the concept, design phase. As we seen CCP can do that. With bar there is not much to do really. They have done that in the past.
THE COMMITMENT: But then is the craziest part and most dificult, to commit to implement something. How to do that? Lets for a moment assume someone gave them "Green Light". They think it will be done in the engine, with money CCP have and they will acquire new people to do that.
EXPANDING: They would need to add to the team (already consisting of 3 people, 2 if you exclude prototypist) at least:
- one modeler, - one character animator/rigger, - one artist arranging textures and texturing UI, 3D tiles, - five engine programmers (graphic, script, sound, UI, structure) (To modify existing ones (if they exist) and implement new features to CARBON framework, like buying/selling stuff from NPC, affecting/arranging player owned locations, multicharacter environment, media streaming, opening/closing doors, interactions between players. They would have to actually learn to make/modify all tools for creating bar/other levels in future.) - one text scripter to work out how game would communicate with player thru messages, - one level designer to work with levels and tools. - one tester to test it all and debug. - one QA guy.
...so at least 14-15 people core team. And some auxiliary guys also, sound and video guys could work as auxiliaries and constantly make content when the rest is created, and after it is all created. We have seen SCOPE videos. Auxiliary would have to work constantly, even after all is created.
THE SOON(tm): A lot of stuff happening, while the team is working on the framework and design of the levels. But then, days, months, years(?) later...
THE DELIVERY, AND AFTERMATCH: After shipping all structures designed into actual game build that team could be reduced to:
- one game designer - one level designer acting also as tester, - one main programmer to work on occasional bugs in the framework code, repairing stuff.
The rest fired, working on different game.
We would have our bar, and even more in future.
But would they have our money?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2497
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 14:18:48 -
[1560] - Quote
Tenebria Gallentis wrote: ... simulators .. Basically. A lot of what you suggest would make EVE more realistic but far more tedious.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
|
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3948
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 14:36:03 -
[1561] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Tenebria Gallentis wrote: ... simulators .. Basically. A lot of what you suggest would make EVE more realistic but far more tedious. Nana Skalski wrote:...so at least 14-15 people core team. Okay, I am going to have to use Second Life as an example, because it is the only one I know of where there is use submitted assets and tools for the players to implement them. Here is the basic avatar.This is an example, of what one looks like with a set of new textures and a hair object attached. That is all user generated (it is possible to strip it all off and get back to the basic AV) and does not include any of the new meshes that can just completely overwrite everything in appearance. Now ... tell me again just how many CCP staff would be needed to tie some stuff together and put it into a Dust setting? Ah, and this textures come from where? Models from where? Poses from where? Interactions and technology to bind it all from where? Do you think CCP would allow players to make it all? Silly you...
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2497
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 14:47:09 -
[1562] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Ah, and this textures come from where? Models from where? Poses from where? Interactions and technology to bind it all from where? Do you think CCP would allow players to make it all? Silly you... Textures - players. Model (mesh) - same default one. Poses - players Interactions and technology (guessing you mean scripts) - players.
Now, how can it be:
Textures -> uploaded to an album for CCP by categories and different sort criteria. Models -> same as above Poses / animations -> they can be done in a series of numbers with a code, **
** Such as (right hand and right foot) "rh-9.5.6,10.7.7,11.9.8 rf-3.2.4,3.2.5,4.2.6", which would describe the hand moving in three directions but faster in one and the foot moving upward. Time can also be added to that. The point being is that it would be a plain text file that is uploaded and can be run on either end to see the animations that it makes to the avatar.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3950
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 15:08:46 -
[1563] - Quote
CCP would rather commit a team to work, than create a system when players would write obscene things on the textures, post them for review and CCP would need to still reviev them constantly.
And this character animation with numbers, wouldnt that be similar to stic animation?
And to add all features that would affect their framework would need a lot of work also.
Sooo, its not so easy, and that is not actually a hard part, the hard part is the upper management and marketing guys, they actually would need to make it and make cash on it.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2497
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 15:15:04 -
[1564] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:... than create a system when players would write obscene things on the textures, ... If they got no response out of CCP, the joke would wear thin quickly and it is pretty easy to check that the same image isn't uploaded repeatedly. Optical Character Recognition can go some way to automatically highlighting anything that looks like writing.Nana Skalski wrote: And this character animation with numbers, wouldnt that be similar to stic animation? That is the general idea of how the skeleton in avatars works. Nana Skalski wrote:And to add all features that would affect their framework would need a lot of work also. Nope, most game assets are built in third party software, such as Blender.
As to cash, someone is still making clothes that no one really looks at for micro-transactions, a boost in those type of sales would no doubt be desired.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Captain IQ
Innocent Traders Ltd
71
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 15:53:02 -
[1565] - Quote
WiS through something like Steam Workshop, obviously closely moderated since this is Eve full of Eve players.
Love the portal idea too, just another instance. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3953
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 17:14:50 -
[1566] - Quote
If you would like it to be implemented and integrated with framework, this gallery of sorts, stil these around 16 people would need to work on it sufficiently long, from concept to the integration into framework and engine. And all these pattern recognitions, all these moderations, rewievs, it does not make itself if CCP will not do that, and I dont really know how much really people would need to work on it constantly after shipping. And you know that CCP would like to do rewievs and moderation of everything because they tell a story of EVE online, not sims online.
Maybe you have made one 3D model in your life, one animation, maybe more. I made few models, I painted textures for few mods that I created for myself in GTA3, Models were awfully not optimized for any game, textures were too silly, animation that I made was awful, and I would never post something that to CCP because it would not be worth it. But, I know a lot of people who would make something awful and still post it. Jesus, you sshould have seen SL cities, some character models, And I know there are few skilled players in the community, but they would need still work in correct setting. Not like this.
Or, assuming that you, potenitial EVE influencing player artist would really want to see some "great" models, like premium quality big breasted shemale Sansha slaves with swollen penile "attachments", or maybe some bestality action with Fedos, then I dont judge you my fellow gamer, but EVE is not a place for it. This way please ( -á-¦ -ƒ-û -í-¦)/---> SL
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2501
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 20:38:14 -
[1567] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:.... still these around 16 people would ... You do know how development work is often split, right? This week I worked on four different projects. Different skills are required at different times.
There is also the simple principle that 1 person is 16x slower than 16 people but 1 person doing a day this week and another person doing a day next week and so on is one hell of a lot more development than has been going on for the past 5 years.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3978
|
Posted - 2016.01.28 23:24:10 -
[1568] - Quote
1 person will not do everything. There are no workers who would do and do well a job for 16 different people with different specialized skills.
New people because I considered not to affect other development teams too much.
I know some people dont need to work from beginning to the end on this, but their work timespan should overlap in some point, to allow some degree of flexibility in project, for unexpected problems with framework for example, but that flexibility should rather be in technical field, nowhere else, all should be realised with a certain scheme and to the point, as to not make it another WoD. No feature creep, no rethinking everything from scrap, fast prototyping is for elimination of flawed ideas, and prototyper should know what framework is capable of.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2505
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 00:13:11 -
[1569] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:1 person will not do everything. There are no workers who would do and do well a job for 16 different people with different specialized skills. ..f. Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:... 1 person doing a day this week and another person doing a day next week and so on ... Are you just arguing for the sake of it now?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4361
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 00:24:59 -
[1570] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Amber Starview wrote:People talk about time and resources like its a major thing to make a bigger room than what we already have We could have a tool to submit player designed assets. Then CCP can request improvements (That can be done with notes attached to reference points from the asset) or discard it with a short reason. Then it is a matter of putting the pieces together and scripting some stuff (again though, most of that can be put onto Dust's architecture.) So, even if one guy was putting in two days of work every week or two, assembling some stuff and looking through the submissions, it would be taking us a lot further forward than the locked door. Actually that sounds like a really good idea that could work. People would do it, too. Look how many 3rd party tools Eve players have independently developed already.
Neil Young and Crazy Horse - Harsher and tougher than punk
|
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Glathull
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1238
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 00:32:49 -
[1571] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:.... still these around 16 people would ... You do know how development work is often split, right? This week I worked on four different projects. Different skills are required at different times. There is also the simple principle that 1 person is 16x slower than 16 people but 1 person doing a day this week and another person doing a day next week and so on is one hell of a lot more development than has been going on for the past 5 years.
Your "simple principle" is either not simple or not true. I'll explain why with an analogy that I know you've heard before because you really need to understand this before anyone ever lets you get near a management position.
Let's say your project is to make a baby. It takes one woman 9 months to make a baby under ideal circumstances. According to the simple (read: false) principle, if you put 9 women to the task of making a baby, then you should have a baby in 1 month, right? (In case you don't know, the answer to that is no. Not right.)
The blind application of your "simple principle" ends in a result that is entirely unpredictable. You might end up with 9 different babies. You might end up with none. It depends on how many of the women actually want to have a baby and how many just want to f*** around. Even if the stars align perfectly, you are 8 months behind schedule because you didn't understand the nature of the task, you didn't understand how to appropriately manage the team, everyone hates you because you promised a miracle that didn't happen, and--to top it all off--now you have 9 babies to take care of instead of 1.
*********************
The complicated version of your principle is that more people can be faster than one person in the sense that some concepts are too large in scope for a single person to track. There's more information that's more specialized than any single person can deal with effectively. In that sense, a group is as much faster than a single person as something eventually happening is faster than something never happening.
If I understand what Nana is saying, I think it's this: WiS is the complicated/true version of your principle, not the simple/false version. WiS needs a dedicated team for some time. It's not one dev here and there, and one designer here or there. It's a big challenge that needs front and backend devs, designers, management, leadership, and probably some people I'm forgetting. Accounting and Legal could probably just drop in. I could see it needing a dedicated team of 12 easily. I don't know the internal politics of CCP. It could be more. Probably not less.
It's not the point that having that many people makes it happen reasonably fast. Or faster than if it were just one or two people. It's that having that many people is the difference between it happening at all instead of never.
P.S. While we're all aware that dev work is sometimes split in the ways you are talking about, that is by no means the only way to divide labor in dev work. Some people can concentrate on a hard problem for more than 8 hours at a time. Indeed, some problems are so difficult they require it.
P.P.S. There are also situations where one person is incredibly faster than 16. One person, doing what he or she is best at, can be 16x as fast as a team of 16 people working on the same thing. Because one person working alone doesn't have to waste time dealing with people who are not domain experts, building consensus, or negotiating with stakeholders.
So your simple principle is wrong on both ends. Just FYI.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
3990
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 00:53:08 -
[1572] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Amber Starview wrote:People talk about time and resources like its a major thing to make a bigger room than what we already have We could have a tool to submit player designed assets. Then CCP can request improvements (That can be done with notes attached to reference points from the asset) or discard it with a short reason. Then it is a matter of putting the pieces together and scripting some stuff (again though, most of that can be put onto Dust's architecture.) So, even if one guy was putting in two days of work every week or two, assembling some stuff and looking through the submissions, it would be taking us a lot further forward than the locked door. Actually that sounds like a really good idea that could work. People would do it, too. Look how many 3rd party tools Eve players have independently developed already. Yes, we have, but they are nothimg like WIS, even a text version of it. And these tools are not an aplications integral to the game. They only use this.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
727
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 04:27:16 -
[1573] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.
Ironically this thread is now about an abandoned feature. True enough that it's hard to rationalise but yeah - someone approved this idea misguided or not.
I personally would like to see it but perhaps just for xl citadels as those will be relatively few in number and have the highest populations. As for npc stations etc there's just no point as the technical hurdles wouldn't justify the payoff.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2363
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 05:56:04 -
[1574] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. Ironically this thread is now about an abandoned feature. True enough that it's hard to rationalise but yeah - someone approved this idea misguided or not. I personally would like to see it but perhaps just for xl citadels as those will be relatively few in number and have the highest populations. As for npc stations etc there's just no point as the technical hurdles wouldn't justify the payoff. The Summer of Whining was not about WIS. it was about, even more ironically, pay to win and the greed is good memo. WIS was unfortunately a casualty of those two things.
In regards to previous posters talking about development costs, development tools there are plenty of first / third person tools available that already have the functionality to build a space station interior. One person could do it quite easily and it would not have to be dependent / built into EvE. All it would need is access to the database channels and market much like Dust is independent but has EvE connectivity.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
morion
Lighting Build
59
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 09:06:29 -
[1575] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. Ironically this thread is now about an abandoned feature. True enough that it's hard to rationalise but yeah - someone approved this idea misguided or not. I personally would like to see it but perhaps just for xl citadels as those will be relatively few in number and have the highest populations. As for npc stations etc there's just no point as the technical hurdles wouldn't justify the payoff.
xl citadels as those will be relatively few in number ... same was said about Titans
Time will tell |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2363
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 11:54:08 -
[1576] - Quote
There's not much difference between the different stations. Programming is very modular and scalable, I can create a room class once and send it room data and that class will create as many rooms as I like adjusting each one dependent on the data. A single class can be used to create a shack, a house, mansion or palace.
Not technical at all. EvE already does it with stations I'd imagine.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4051
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 12:21:23 -
[1577] - Quote
Quote:One person could do it quite easily and it would not have to be dependent / built into EvE.
JUST DO IT.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2510
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 13:33:40 -
[1578] - Quote
Glathull wrote:Your "simple principle" is either not simple or not true. I'll explain why with an analogy that I know you've heard before because you really need to understand this before anyone ever lets you get near a management position.
Let's say your project is to make a baby. It takes one woman 9 months to make a baby under ideal circumstances. According to the simple ... I stopped reading at this point. When I say, "simple," I do that as I have dumbed it down. The same way one can say that a rocket is a cylinder with fuel, that is ignited and launches it up into the air.
Now immediately, someone like you will over complicate it, talking about velocity, about mass to weight ratio, how some might not even get off the ground, how if the fuel mixture is not correct it won't ignite, so forth and so on. It is pointless hot air. By simple, read "simplified" and yes, quite possibly, "over simplified".
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Glathull
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1239
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 14:24:03 -
[1579] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Glathull wrote:Your "simple principle" is either not simple or not true. I'll explain why with an analogy that I know you've heard before because you really need to understand this before anyone ever lets you get near a management position.
Let's say your project is to make a baby. It takes one woman 9 months to make a baby under ideal circumstances. According to the simple ... I stopped reading at this point. When I say, "simple," I do that as I have dumbed it down. The same way one can say that a rocket is a cylinder with fuel, that is ignited and launches it up into the air. Now immediately, someone like you will over complicate it, talking about velocity, about mass to weight ratio, how some might not even get off the ground, how if the fuel mixture is not correct it won't ignite, so forth and so on. It is pointless hot air. By simple, read "simplified" and yes, quite possibly, "over simplified".
Oh, my bad. Apparently you think putting rockets in space is easy! Hell for those who actually want to have a practical conversation about making it happen! Damned overcomplications that people keep bringing up about the realities of how difficult things really are.
Too bad you stopped reading. You might have learned something. But that wouldn't be very much like you, now would it?
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2510
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 15:30:38 -
[1580] - Quote
Glathull wrote:... Hell for those who actually want to have a practical conversation about making it happen! ... When it appears that someone does not understand you then you don't make your answers more complex. Context, you might want to learn about that.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Glathull
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1240
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 16:16:31 -
[1581] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Glathull wrote:... Hell for those who actually want to have a practical conversation about making it happen! ... When it appears that someone does not understand you then you don't make your answers more complex. Context, you might want to learn about that.
Or when it appears that someone doesn't understand you, you might question your opinions and gather new facts.
Humility. Check it out some time.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2510
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 16:36:54 -
[1582] - Quote
Glathull wrote:Humility. Check it out some time. This from you? Thanks for the laugh!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4065
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 16:57:35 -
[1583] - Quote
What is there to understand in first place? Everyone should get it, its simple. You give one man a chair and deask, and he magically makes WIS happen. Wait, he doesnt have some kind of magic lamp. Read it to the end.
Seriously, when You want to strain development time, basically giving the job to the one worker, he would need to make lengthy instructions whats done and whats not, for the next one. But that is not everything:
Situation (a): You have 16 people on team 1, they all work simultanously, communicating when they need. All are working at 100% speed. They would demand 100% salary. They end project in one year, you can start earning money after one year. 3 072 000 $ all salaries. You can start profiting after one year.
Situation (b): You have 16 people and they all work on the same stuff, but one at a time, for 8 years, Every guy should work with a 200% speed with that timespan, comunication is impaired. You need to pay their salaries, one man at a time, they would demand 200% salary for 200% work speed. After 8 years project is completed and you can start earning money. 3 072 000 $ all salaries, you can start profiting after 8 years.
Situation (c): "Simple" soulution when someone is working on the feature himself, doesnt get money for it, and cuts his veins because he cant affor to pay the rent after few months. Everyone around is thinking: "Why? That was really simple", because he have done that himself and everyone else did not get an idea how hard it was.
Q: What situation is better for the team and for the company?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Laken Starr
Mining and Munitions Ltd SpaceMonkey's Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 17:27:48 -
[1584] - Quote
Explosions in space are fine. They've gotten more than enough development. Eve needs to look to what will draw new folks, not just keep the long term vets happy. And the #1 complaint I hear from friends (granted, mostly RPers) who've tried the game is the lack of a true avatar. |
Remiel Pollard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7500
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 17:54:36 -
[1585] - Quote
Laken Starr wrote:Explosions in space are fine. They've gotten more than enough development. Eve needs to look to what will draw new folks, not just keep the long term vets happy. And the #1 complaint I hear from friends (granted, mostly RPers) who've tried the game is the lack of a true avatar.
Um, I hate to break it to you and your friends, but EVE isn't every other MMO out there. Your ship is your avatar.
The space game is the developmental focus for a number of reasons, not the least of which was Incarna, but also because you're asking for something that would take from the development time of the spaceship game, which is what the majority of players are here for. This is advertised as a spaceship game, and I cannot understand why people come here demanding it 'adapt' to their needs when their needs are filled just fine by a thousand other games.
If you think 'explosions in space' is the only development that will suffer, think again. But I'm detecting some hyperbole on that one.
As I've said before, WiS would be fine if it 1. does not detract from development time of the spaceships game, and 2. we're not all forced to use it, meaning it would have to be its own game with its own client, not bloating my client with stuff that I will simply never ever use.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Aina Aideron
Night Raven Task Force United Interests
44
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 19:47:08 -
[1586] - Quote
Wis was planned as early as 2006. People are still asking for it because it was planned to be a part of eve and still share that vision. It maybe isn't anymore. I don't think it was the idea of wis that is the problem, there was a lot of positivity in the early threads, it just hasn't been found good way to make it work within or alongside eve,maybe new technologies and ideas can change that,maybe not. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2511
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 22:31:01 -
[1587] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:... You give one man a chair and deask, and he magically makes WIS happen. ... Except that he and the others who are putting in some time are not making WiS from scratch.
They have a code base. EVE's WiS + Dust to copy, paste and alter. Not such a big job as before.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 00:28:00 -
[1588] - Quote
I think the core of all this is a confusion based on a few concepts that are actually diametrically opposed to each other:
You have this great character designer to build your 'avatar'. You can clothe your toon with in game customization. Then what? Ooops, clothing is horrifically expensive (sometimes more than a decent warship) and you can't 'make' it, or at least I haven't found a blueprint for it. So there's nothing there. It gives rise to what was likely the original concept of "Your starship is your avatar" and if that were the current case, none of the character customization would exist. Right now it's really just for a good looking profile picture... yay! The existence is in opposition to the reality.
Next, you have this 'storyline' feature that screams to have real interactions with it but in practice are actually worse than WoW quest pick ups. The most fun I get out of them is the agents constantly insulting me then complimenting me. It's hilarious. The concept of deep and meaningful storylines are lost in the mechanism of delivery, being dehumanized and unemotional. Again, the reality is the opposite of the apparent design.
So, the idea of parallel production of a toon based universe by an entirely different team of programmers creating a parallel world (probably both in station and on planet) is a good one but it might not be financially feasible for a company like CCP to shell out and do. It would have to be a very polished product out of the gate as it would be immediately competing with other space MMO's like SWTOR that do this switch over really well. Then it's the sandbox vs. semi-scripted environment argument for the popularity of the game.
So, knowing enough about development like this, no, it's not cheap or easy unless you want output that looks cheap and like a room of monkeys coded it. However, doing a good job would eliminate the apparent opposition of what the implied design is vs. what we actually have to work with in the game. It would be a win-win, but probably more than they want to pay at the moment.
Personally, they should probably ask us players to donate to a fund to build the toon realm and when it reached enough donations, they'd hire the team and move forward with it. That would really show how much interest there was in it. They could pay back the early donators by giving them PLEX amounts based on their early donations once it exists. Those that didn't donate get to play in the new feature but don't get the PLEX boost. |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
303
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 00:58:26 -
[1589] - Quote
Fact = there are alot of people who like the idea of multiple avatar interaction WIS.
Fact = It would be bring new people into the game
Also Fact = CCP can t build multiple avatar WIS into the game.. technicaly they cant do it. They tried and after a huge amount of development and cost all they were able to do was a single avatar room that in the intial release overheated peoples graphics cards.
What they could do.... and I would be happy with this.
Expand on the single room.
- Add fishtanks, stripper poles etc for purchase
- Add a in character tv news show to the CQ screens talking about latest SOV politics / battles, big ganks, Economy, high sec / low sec / null / wh news, how to find a corp etc etc. Would help new/old players get excited about new possibilities.
- Add tropheys on wall which are displayed for x number of PVE / PVP kills / Missions Run
- Add display cabinet or pedistals for heads of a limited amount of podded enemys with small plaque showing info on the battle. (player to select which pod kills were significant enough to display)
CQ could be a great way for players to memoralise their eve experience, have a memento of their greatest triumphs.
All above = no large time/ money sink and technically unfeasible (for eve code) multple avatar interaction.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2365
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 02:43:12 -
[1590] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:Fact = there are alot of people who like the idea of multiple avatar interaction WIS.
Fact = It would bring new people into the game
Also Fact = CCP can't build multiple avatar WIS into the game.. technically they cant do it. They tried and after a huge amount of development and cost all they were able to do was a single avatar room that in the initial release overheated peoples graphics cards.
What they could do.... and I would be happy with this.
Expand on the single room.
- Add fish-tanks, stripper poles etc for purchase
- Add a in character tv news show to the CQ screens talking about latest SOV politics / battles, big ganks, Economy, high sec / low sec / null / wh news, how to find a corp etc etc. Would help new/old players get excited about new possibilities.
- Add trophies on wall which are displayed for x number of PVE / PVP kills / Missions Run
- Add display cabinet or pedestals for heads of a limited amount of podded enemy's with small plaque showing info on the battle. (player to select which pod kills were significant enough to display)
CQ could be a great way for players to memorialize their eve experience, have a memento of their greatest triumphs.
All above = no large time/ money sink and technically unfeasible (for eve code) multiple avatar interaction. Your conclusion is probably not accurate.
Graphics are not what draws subscriptions. There are plenty of games that have competitive graphics and fail due to lack of content. Games like mine craft with terrible graphics are making billions because they provide content.
WIS needs to provide content which would be provided by players primarily. Was recently in the old EQ 1 tunnel on Project1999 could barely move for the number of players. Terrible graphics, lots of content.
The benefits of WIS could be like perks. Get rid of magic customs and allow trade in WIS to include contraband.
When you enter WIS remove players from EVE local, shunt them over to WIS server temporarily, just solved hub congestion.
Create gambling opportunities with mini games like slots run by players.
Allow players to create clothing, upgrade weapons etc through player owned shops.
There are plenty of reasons to do it and it does not go against the spirit of EvE. EvE has never been PvP ship combat only. The very first thing I did in EvE as suggested by the EvE tutorial at the time was mine for ISK and learn to make stuff and player to player trade is as old in EvE as player v player fights.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4082
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 07:28:07 -
[1591] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:Also Fact = CCP can't build multiple avatar WIS into the game.. technically they cant do it. They tried and after a huge amount of development and cost all they were able to do was a single avatar room that in the initial release overheated peoples graphics cards. Can you provide a source that says it is impossible? CCP said that? And it is not a lie? I dont believe that to be true. In multiplayer game where you have many players playing simultanously, the company that makes it, suddenly forgot how to write a multiplayer game?
That just dont make any sense to me.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2511
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 09:58:33 -
[1592] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:... Next, you have this 'storyline' feature that screams to have real interactions with it but in practice are actually worse than WoW quest pick ups. The most fun I get out of them is the agents constantly insulting me then complimenting me. It's hilarious. The concept of deep and meaningful storylines are lost in the mechanism of delivery, being dehumanized and unemotional. Again, the reality is the opposite of the apparent design. .... You might like this
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.02 01:46:45 -
[1593] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: You might like this [/quote]
I did enjoy that and it echos a larger discussion I had with some popular GM's in a hallway at a game convention many, many years ago... pre-internet era. ( I think we had 300 baud BBS sites back then...)
We we bemoaning the AD&D concepts of adventuring (much like the 'quests' of most MMO's which AD&D predated by a long, long time). The discussion turned to how to prevent that. We discussed how Traveller felt like it had an openness to it, go places, discover things, but that too also got repetitive. So the idea was to make the characters (NPC's) that surround the PC's not flat and vibrant. Each person around them should have some way of getting the players engaged.
I started using that concept a lot in my own RPG worlds and it worked out well, but work is the operative word. It was like I had to have 100 characters on hand for players to interact with... that's a lot of character thought and design!
Thanks for the video, it was great. It makes me want to play that game... reminds me of the old text based RPG games...
By the way, SWTOR seems to have taken this to heart with the new expasions. It's about the stories for the most part. Sure you can grind, but I pretty much play the storylines. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4315
|
Posted - 2016.02.02 14:28:22 -
[1594] - Quote
A lot of fun is interaction between player characters, their personalities, social aspects of the game. For example in Warhammer 40K people personalize their figures to give them some character, and even they give them names, and those figures that survived many battles or have achieved something heroic have many personalizations.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2513
|
Posted - 2016.02.02 23:06:00 -
[1595] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:... We we bemoaning the AD&D concepts of adventuring (much like the 'quests' of most MMO's which AD&D predated by a long, long time). ... Speaking of questions, a lot of the basic designs for a quest could be tested in the stations, see how the players respond and then adapt and tweak it to put out into the main game.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4394
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 00:26:20 -
[1596] - Quote
Have you played Neverwinter Nights, the first, original? It had nice creator/editor in which you could build a lot of stuff and completely use it for multiplayer quest experience for creating your own adventures. If you can, look it up. It can be made for sure in EVE, but there would be a cost involved, mainly what I posted earlier. Still the amount of created assets and modules would need to be very high, and I dont know if amount of roleplayers in EVE would justify creation of such a tool for WIS, but maybe it would bring new ones to it. For sure it would be sandbox environment. REAL sandbox, where people are creating a content for others in the world of EVE.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Dyllan Ma'tar
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 01:36:20 -
[1597] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I've bugged CCP Explorer on Twitter about making Aura an entity in CQ, who walks around and answers questions, perhaps narrates show info text. I think the talking head version of Aura is under developed. Obviously CCP intended to use that trope, of a holographic info-woman.
Without rehashing the WiS debate, would a physical Aura be acceptable to you?
Absolutely not, I want a damn disembodied head floating around and an omnipresent voice, the way Glob intended.
> You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". ~ Miyamoto Musashi
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Dyllan Ma'tar
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 01:38:21 -
[1598] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Have you played Neverwinter Nights, the first, original? It had nice creator/editor called Aurora toolset and DM client in which you could build a lot of stuff and completely use it for multiplayer quest experience for creating your own adventures. If you can, look it up. It can be made for sure in EVE, but there would be a cost involved, mainly what I posted earlier. Still the amount of created assets and modules would need to be very high, and I dont know if amount of roleplayers in EVE would justify creation of such a tool for WIS, but maybe it would bring new ones to it. For sure it would be sandbox environment. REAL sandbox, where people are creating a content for others in the world of EVE.
I remember. Don't think this would be cost effective with the current WiS engine, but that situation would be preferable to other knavery we'd get.
> You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". ~ Miyamoto Musashi
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W33b3l
The Scope Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 02:33:03 -
[1599] - Quote
You know I thought of something.. Forgetting for the moment that this thread is old as sin and kind of pointless.
CCP has been experimenting with micro transactions. Be it through Aurum or the skill trading system. You can argue skill trading being what you think it is all you want.. weather im right or you are doesn't matter. Its a way to make some money and get people into the game. (if it works or not).
What if they did go along with WIS and just AURUM the living crap out of it? Do it less for the space ship stuff since it agitates a lot of us old guys, and focus on the Avatars. I know they have a baseline down.. Ive seen the videos of an avatar actually walking in a station with in development art. It would give us psychopath space pilots something to shoot at when they do undock and not effect us otherwise while giving the people that dont understand eve and are used to other MMO's a map to get used to it and draw them in.
I know it sounds like blasphemy. But it makes sense and would be better then forcing us that never leave our ships to adapt to things we dont like. It would just be a question if it would be worth the resources needed to do it being moved that are currently working on the current game in space.
Just a thought. not sure if good or bad... but its a thought.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2367
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 07:10:01 -
[1600] - Quote
W33b3l wrote:You know I thought of something.. Forgetting for the moment that this thread is old as sin and kind of pointless.
CCP has been experimenting with micro transactions. Be it through Aurum or the skill trading system. You can argue skill trading being what you think it is all you want.. weather im right or you are doesn't matter. Its a way to make some money and get people into the game. (if it works or not).
What if they did go along with WIS and just AURUM the living crap out of it? Do it less for the space ship stuff since it agitates a lot of us old guys, and focus on the Avatars. I know they have a baseline down.. Ive seen the videos of an avatar actually walking in a station with in development art. It would give us psychopath space pilots something to shoot at when they do undock and not effect us otherwise while giving the people that dont understand eve and are used to other MMO's a map to get used to it and draw them in.
I know it sounds like blasphemy. But it makes sense and would be better then forcing us that never leave our ships to adapt to things we dont like. It would just be a question if it would be worth the resources needed to do it being moved that are currently working on the current game in space.
Just a thought. not sure if good or bad... but its a thought.
Wouldn't really be necessary to do that and could be counterproductive. The profitability of avatar based social games far outstrips any free for all PvP game. WIS doesn't hurt anyone who likes PvP rather on the contrary if the popularity of WIS matched traditional ratios you'd likely see the WIS income supplementing development of PvP.
Recalling nearly every online game I've ever played you'd have around 100 to 200 on PvP server and 800 to 1000 on non-PvP, or a similar ratio.
That's the thing that doesn't make a lot of sense when PvPrs are getting on here saying the majority don't want it. The ones who would benefit the most.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
80
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:52:59 -
[1601] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:Also Fact = CCP can't build multiple avatar WIS into the game.. technically they cant do it. They tried and after a huge amount of development and cost all they were able to do was a single avatar room that in the initial release overheated peoples graphics cards.
Fact:
Nothing is impossible in software. It's just a question of how much trouble you're willing to go through. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4371
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 02:20:54 -
[1602] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:... We we bemoaning the AD&D concepts of adventuring (much like the 'quests' of most MMO's which AD&D predated by a long, long time). ... Speaking of questions, a lot of the basic designs for a quest could be tested in the stations, see how the players respond and then adapt and tweak it to put out into the main game. The idea of giving the human toon itself a personality and identity could turn into something huge. As Eve is now, the character at the moment is really the ship you're flying. If you invite someone who might like the game to join, what do they usually say? -"Why can't I ever see my character?" -"What, I can't fly my ship around in space [like a flight sim/arcardey shooter]?" -"Why can't I land on the planets?"
Those questions might seem absurd to us as EVE players, but they don't seem silly to people coming from other good MMOs. I think the biggest one is, "Why can't I get out of my ship and see my character?" Not being able to be a controllable human in the game sometimes makes it too abstract for many people to get into. (Examples: Wives and girlfriends of friends of hardcore male EVE players. Many of whom were brilliant and very intense players of other MMOs. But in the end, EVE didn't appeal to them for whatever reason. I suspect it was because of the idea of building a social identity around.... what? Your Thrasher flying from here to there? Your jockstrap KB, that only you really ever look at?)
Anyway, Eve has the char animations already built for WIS. Also DUST on-planet builds all done. Seems doing some game design thinking to integrate built technologies into something that provides player incentives and enjoyment could be done? The Eve ship v. ship part is already finely tuned, of course. If a few ideals about making back and forth between WIS and DUST toons happen with that, it could brilliant. Hugely immersive, and so also hugely profitable.
"I am always ready for anything you may say. I am an Eveready battery."
'I have the wisdom of Solomon, the strength of Samson, and the patience of Job."
-A couple of random rural Liberian b.s. artists, on any weeknight palaver hut b.s. session
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4624
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 07:54:10 -
[1603] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:... We we bemoaning the AD&D concepts of adventuring (much like the 'quests' of most MMO's which AD&D predated by a long, long time). ... Speaking of questions, a lot of the basic designs for a quest could be tested in the stations, see how the players respond and then adapt and tweak it to put out into the main game. The idea of giving the human toon itself a personality and identity could turn into something huge. As Eve is now, the character at the moment is really the ship you're flying. If you invite someone who might like the game to join, what do they usually say? -"Why can't I ever see my character?" -"What, I can't fly my ship around in space [like a flight sim/arcardey shooter]?" -"Why can't I land on the planets?" Those questions might seem absurd to us as EVE players, but they don't seem silly to people coming from other good MMOs. I think the biggest one is, "Why can't I get out of my ship and see my character?" Not being able to be a controllable human in the game sometimes makes it too abstract for many people to get into. (Examples: Wives and girlfriends of friends of hardcore male EVE players. Many of whom were brilliant and very intense players of other MMOs. But in the end, EVE didn't appeal to them for whatever reason. I suspect it was because of the idea of building a social identity around.... what? Your Thrasher flying from here to there? Your jockstrap KB, that only you really ever look at?) Anyway, Eve has the char animations already built for WIS. And DUST already has on-planet environments built. A lot of the New Eden world is already built and ready for players to go into. The EVE Online systems and spaceships world is already extremely developed and constantly tuned, of course. If with a few game design decisions, CCP could create real incentives to go between EVE ships and WIS characters-- (and also DUST planetside guys)-- how addictive could that be? TL;DR version: CCP has already done the hard tech development part. After that, it's just some game design things to put in. ("Mysterious Stranger in the corner of the bar"). ("Take the space elevator to the planet surface"). Could add dimensions to the game, and make it more than just a very clever shooter/ISK-gathering/higher-level shooting thing. With only a few design ideas needed.
CCP already had ideas for avatar gameplay during the "war on impossible" stage of Ambulation. Avatar gameplay was to be in EVE from the start as a part of the "Elite with friends" original inception of the game. So just 3 years after launch, EVE was already being developed in the avatar direction. Avatars were, or are, very important to Hilmar and his ideas on what VR could mean for mankind and the environment: don't build steel into a car and burn fuel, rather experience that as electrons on the move in VR for a fraction of the environmental cost.
Trying to explain how Ambulation became Incarnageddon 5 years later would require a book, and probably would be a depressing read.
EVE needed Incarna to succeed. Since then, EVE has been "reinvented" and CCP has evolved as a company, so now CCP is the best CCP ever and their development process for EVE is the best ever.
And yet EVE is only a fraction of the game it could have been with Incarna. And this fraction is slowly cannibalizing itself as players leave, new blood is turned away and development focuses on splitting the player base into niches within niches rather than expanding it into unexplored niches.
I said it back then and still think it. When someone in the future looks at why did EVE die, the failure of Incarna will be deemed the first nail in the coffin. Like a father eating his children, after Incarna CCP saved the present by sacrificing the future.
You or CCP can lie to yourselves as much as you want. Everything from the Rubicon Plan is aimed at providing content to a fraction of the current playerbase, with no appeal nor gateways for new players nor the players invested in the areas being backburned. Citadels mean literally sh*t to new players:
"See! Massive space stations! And we owe one!" "Woahh! Can I meet you inside?" "Huh... there's no interiors... only the outside as a background image for your screen..." "WTF??? It's effin two thousand and effin sixteen dude! Mass Effect! Star Citizen! Elite Dangerous! in what year are you living??" "Err... HTFU? Go back to WoW? This! Is! EVE!? And, have you seen my Capital Force Auxiliary?"
And then, Citadels are the most widely appealing feature in Rubicon! Everything else will be structures for specific uses by fractions of the population interested (or capable) to own a Citadel.
So CCP takes EVE players, removes non PvPrs, then takes PvPrs and remove soloers and small people not interested to settle anything nor anywhere, then they take away those who are afraid of wormholes and will never go to New Space, then take away those who can't be interested to use Specialyzed Structure A, B, C or D... Thus CCP ends up developing 80% of the new game content for 0.2% of the population.
And as Jester said, "etiher you buy it or not much will be coming your way".
All because CCP had to manage WiS as good as they managed WoD or DUST 514...
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13530
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 13:33:34 -
[1604] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So CCP takes EVE players, removes non PvPrs, then takes PvPrs and remove soloers and small people not interested to settle anything nor anywhere, then they take away those who are afraid of wormholes and will never go to New Space, then take away those who can't be interested to use Specialyzed Structure A, B, C or D... Thus CCP ends up developing 80% of the new game content for 0.2% of the population.
The above post is almost everything I dislike about the WiS crowd rolled into one thing. The main theme is "CCP is against people who don't exclusivly pvp". Every time i read something like that I am almost always in game, shooting NPCs and wonder "WTF is this person going on about??". Somehow, you will never see much of this same poster in any of the actual PVE Sections.
It's not pve vs pvp.I'm PVE focused myself and have no feeling that CCP is somehow victimizing me. IMO CCP has spent too much time on PVE, and this can be seen by the fact that most of us who do PVE are doign the same PVE we had in the past, where as relatively few are using these newer PVE venues. ie despite people begging for 'co-op pve', people are still running pre-2006 missions, anomalies and explorations content more than incursions or ghost sites or burners or whatever else.
I find it ironic that the people who say "I want more new stuff" eventually end up just playing the same old stuff, it reminds me of how people rage quitted saying they were going to play SWG then Black prophecy, then SWTOR, then Star Trek Online then Elite Dangerous then (perhap soon) SC or No man's sky ....but end up right back in EVE because their preferences don't match their rhetoric...
I like the old stuff, which is why I'm not complaining about the fact that the 2 DED 10/10s I did last night were created before either of my grandchildren were born.
What actually happened in the past is that CCP learned the lesson that these other game makers and developers are learning (especially SC and Elite): You can't give everyone everything they want and still have a thing worth calling a game. You have to make choices. And any choice you make is going to turn off someone. EVE is a turn off to some people not because it's a bad game, but because it's a game that caters to certain mindsets. Not just pvp mindsets either, as the above poster is fond of saying, more EVE players don't even actively seek pvp.
That suggests to me that there are at least a few folks like me in EVE: people who don't care about avatars, who don't love pvp but don't hate it either, that love the thrill of "contested PVE" and who enjoy the minimalist nature of EVE Online. My opposition to Incarna like stuff has nothing do with not wating others to enjoy something, it has everything to do with not wanting the company that makes my favorite game fall into the trap of over-extending itself for the sake of people who claim to want WiS but (like the "Playstation Home" people) probably won't use it much even if it existed.
I think CCP learned that their original vision (of some kind of all encompassing, all immersing sci-fi universe) was competently unrealistic. Incarna taught CCP that the game's current more 'minimalist' approach was better. It's that approach that many of us like, as opposed to the "Star Citizen" vision of some complete space world that you can totally lose yourself in.
Some of us just want a good, engaging but not overbearing game (which is what EVE is), we don't necessarily need to find ourselves 'lost' in the experience, as we'd have to be while wearing some VR helmet while drinking imaginary booze in a fictional Jita bar. This is why I hope and pray Star Citizen is a smashing success (and/or Elite gets it's act together), so that the "I need more immersion" people will have something they like finally without needing to think CCP needs to devote resources to flipping EVE on it's ear to get it.. |
Demica Diaz
SE-1
193
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 15:13:05 -
[1605] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Laken Starr wrote:Explosions in space are fine. They've gotten more than enough development. Eve needs to look to what will draw new folks, not just keep the long term vets happy. And the #1 complaint I hear from friends (granted, mostly RPers) who've tried the game is the lack of a true avatar. Um, I hate to break it to you and your friends, but EVE isn't every other MMO out there. Your ship is your avatar. The space game is the developmental focus for a number of reasons, not the least of which was Incarna, but also because you're asking for something that would take from the development time of the spaceship game, which is what the majority of players are here for. This is advertised as a spaceship game, and I cannot understand why people come here demanding it 'adapt' to their needs when their needs are filled just fine by a thousand other games. If you think 'explosions in space' is the only development that will suffer, think again. But I'm detecting some hyperbole on that one. As I've said before, WiS would be fine if it 1. does not detract from development time of the spaceships game, and 2. we're not all forced to use it, meaning it would have to be its own game with its own client, not bloating my client with stuff that I will simply never ever use.
We all have different views. In my view my ships are not my avatar in EVE. My character is. Ships are just class or gear that my true avatar uses to achieve goals.
EVE also is hardly different from other mmo's here. You have avatar, you "dress up" avatar in gear (ships in case of EVE), upgrate gear with enchants (modules) and off you go pew pew. Only big difference is that you lose your gear when you lose. But even that is not unique to EVE. EVE was born in era where losing stuff when you die was OK to have in mmo. Also if you want to be really picky if EVE is truly advertised as spaceship game then why do I feel like I am controlling submarine?
People asking for new things because they want to experience something new. WiS is just one suggestion of that "something new". Many players share the wish of seeing WiS come true and some players like myself welcome it if it does and not lose their sleep if it does not. |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
529
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 16:00:04 -
[1606] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: What actually happened in the past is that CCP learned the lesson that these other game makers and developers are learning (especially SC and Elite): You can't give everyone everything they want and still have a thing worth calling a game. You have to make choices. And any choice you make is going to turn off someone. EVE is a turn off to some people not because it's a bad game, but because it's a game that caters to certain mindsets. Not just pvp mindsets either, as the above poster is fond of saying, more EVE players don't even actively seek pvp.
What you say is correct: you can't have a cake and eat it ! But you're trying to apply this case to a scenario where you can bake multiple cakes. When Indah says "Let's have different flavoured cakes.", you say "we can't mix flavours, that would taste horrible" barring the possibility that each cake can have one flavour different from the other cakes.
I never played SWG (Star Wars Galaxies), but what I read about it says that the pre-NGE version allowed players to freely choose professions ranging from musicians / performers to combat specialists. Now I'm not going to compare apples and oranges, I'm just saying that on principle it is possible to have variety in a game (aka catering to different tastes) as long as the different components don't step on each others feet. Because if they do, it hurts. Your argument is basically saying that different components will necessarily step on each others feet.
In 2006 I held similar opinions as you Jenn, but mainly because the arguments in favour of ambulation were ridiculous imo. The proponents (both players and some CCP staff) argued and I shall paraphrase here with a slight comedic undertone:
- We have 95% male subscribers and only 5% female, yet the MMO market has on average a 50% female to male ratio. How do we tap into that market to increase overall subscriptions ? Well of course, women don't like to identify themselves with things such as starships. Ergo, we need to create avatars so that women can identify with a human character. This way more women will start playing EvE ... it will be awesome and soon we will have as many subscriptions as WoW !!!11!!1
I had to facepalm really hard at this logic. 1) This arguments totally failed to include that SciFi is generally a niche genre that also happens to be more popular with men than with women. 2) In 2006 EvE had active role-players that had no problem whatsoever with EvE for the 2.5 years of its existence. Neither of them even tried to identify themselves with their ship as their avatar. I think that they all identified with the character they had named, whose picture was forever looking the same way as it did when they first created him/her, and for whom some even created elaborate background stories. None of those role-players failed to understand that their avatar was sitting in a goo filled pod, which in turn was contained inside the spaceship they were currently looking at. 3) When was the last time anybody would not play a racing game because they couldn't identify with "the car being their avatar" ... seriously: facepalm, facepalm, facepalm.
-> so in essence: adding avatar gameplay to EvE would not magically attract players that are not interested in the space setting or who are to dumb to imagine their character sitting inside a pod inside a spaceship.
I was against ambulation because the arguments brought forward were simply stupid.
But then came the prototypes shown at Fanfest and the footage made by nVidia in cooperation with CCP demonstrating cloth and hair movement which was truely stunning at the time. - We saw footage of a pod pilot being decanted from his pod in a separate room much like Neo in The Matrix after taking the red pill. Oh yes, the rage is still strong in me over CCP putting the pod straight into the ship hangar ... it's so wrong and not gritty and dark at all. Definately not what was shown at Fanfest. - We saw footage of empty sockets in stations where players would be able to set up a shop after renting the socket. (rage) - We saw exotic dancers moving around strip poles. Didn't happen ... (rage) - We saw a game supposedly playable at the bar. It looked so cool, but never happened ... (rage, rage, rage) - We were told that we'd get NPCs for hire, like bartenders for example which could be possibly set up to deliver specific dialog. - We were told of meeting rooms for corporations / alliances. (ok, didn't care so much about that)
I bought into that vision for EvE. CCP made me change my opinion from contra ambulation to pro ambulation. Ambulation was renamed WiS and the specific expansion Incarna.
... and all we ******* got was - 1 (one !) Captains Quarter that doesn't have a door between the place I'm supposed to feel at home and the ******* ship hangar, seriously ? - The pod from which I'm supposed to emerge from all wet and scantily clothed in the middle of the ship hangar, wtf happened to decantation room ? - a micro-transaction store that nobody asked for instead of player built items (ok, we can live with that). Except that the prices were all macro-transaction like. That the initial free AUR was just enough to buy one single item out of all available items ... and that item are boots which I can't see on the character portrait and are not available to male avatars and I can't pool or trade my AUR to maybe get something else instead ??? WTF ? - Oh yeah the "greed is good" and "people would buy $1000 Jeans in RL" leaks
... and all of this happened at a time when other MMOs turned from subscription based to F2P microtransaction blood-letting devices. But EvE players didn't worry about a cash-shop in EvE because "EvE will stay subscription based. There are no plans for micro-transactions".
(oopsie, ran out of characters)
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
529
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 16:13:30 -
[1607] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote: (oopsie, ran out of characters)
(part 2)
Personally I just want to see the original design turn into reality. I don't care if CCP wants to use the UE4 engine and tie the WiS design into whatever the new "Dust51 4PC" will be.
I didn't and don't care about the redesigned and canned version of WiS, that Torfi and his team worked on ... the one with picking up guns and explore remote abandoned stations. Because apparently "meaningful gameplay" only happens if I can pick up a gun (sigh, nay facepalm ... god my head hurts from facepalming).
I will stop here, allthough I could go on with plenty of good arguments why WiS as imagined initially would not mean the end of the world for EvE. I'm not saying it's a solution to any existing or perceived problem. I'm saying "It looks cool, make it happen !" Basically exactly the same argument as for ship skins, ship damage modelling, kill marks on hull ... the same argument that was also valid when the planet textures were redesigned several years ago ... the same argument used when ship hulls were redesigned (allthough I still think that the Trasher got literally butchered).
I support WiS (the original).
Ah, yeah ... I said I would stop.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13531
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 16:19:25 -
[1608] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:
What you say is correct: you can't have a cake and eat it ! But you're trying to apply this case to a scenario where you can bake multiple cakes. When Indah says "Let's have different flavoured cakes.", you say "we can't mix flavours, that would taste horrible" barring the possibility that each cake can have one flavour different from the other cakes.
CCP baked different cakes. There were called Incarna, WoD and DUST (and they thought up other cakes, like atmospheric flight, EVA exploration and Legion). Those cakes fell a bit flat lol. one had it's ingredients sold before it ever got into an oven, one got half baked (It's a "one room" cake lol) and the last one is literally about to bite the DUST.
The one cake that didn't fall flat is called EVE. I don't think it's terribly outlandish to say to the Baker that you should keep doing the thing that works and leave the rest alone.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
529
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 16:53:49 -
[1609] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:
What you say is correct: you can't have a cake and eat it ! But you're trying to apply this case to a scenario where you can bake multiple cakes. When Indah says "Let's have different flavoured cakes.", you say "we can't mix flavours, that would taste horrible" barring the possibility that each cake can have one flavour different from the other cakes.
CCP baked different cakes. There were called Incarna, WoD and DUST (and they thought up other cakes, like atmospheric flight, EVA exploration and Legion). Those cakes fell a bit flat lol. one had it's ingredients sold before it ever got into an oven, one got half baked (It's a "one room" cake lol) and the last one is literally about to bite the DUST. The one cake that didn't fall flat is called EVE. I don't think it's terribly outlandish to say to the Baker that you should keep doing the thing that works and leave the rest alone.
You're ignoring my argument. Valkyrie, Gunjack, Dust are separate games and I'm not argueing for further integration with the EvE client. Again, I was against ambulation as the arguments presented in favour were highly illogical. Still we got more than just a new character creator. We got a human avatar, with exchangable clothing and a small room to walk up and down. It's the most feature incomplete side of EvE. What I want is iteration on this feature. It's here, it's not going away, let's add some functionality to it. Make it worthwhile, polish this part of the game. Oh, and industry needs some polish too. I am not the only one who gets tired of new features being again new ships and again new ships and again new ships ....
F new ships for a while please. I mean finish up caps and those new logistic ships (auxilliairy whatever), take your time to rebalance them after launch and then please, please, please revisit some things that haven't been touched for years, are broken or feature incomplete and are not ships.
EvE is not one cake ! EvE is a collection of bigger and smaller cakes which all should smell good and taste nice. WiS is part of that collection it looks so good, smells delicious but the taste ... oh god ... I think I have to throw up.
You feel me ? Or still obstinate on pretending all is well and everyone should be all smiles and giggles or gtfo.
Oh, and hugs ... I still like you Jenn.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13531
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 18:17:45 -
[1610] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote: What I want is iteration on this feature.
That feature is dead.
Quote: F new ships for a while please.
That's the thing that isn't dead.
Quote: EvE is not one cake ! EvE is a collection of bigger and smaller cakes which all should smell good and taste nice. WiS is part of that collection it looks so good, smells delicious but the taste ... oh god ... I think I have to throw up.
The WiS that exist is a relic of a broken way of thinking. Not much different from COSMOS (or any other abandoned feature) when you get right down to it. I'd rather they not revisit it, not because the feature itself is a terrible idea (it is, it stands to detract from the main aspect of the game, which is putting spacecraft in space), but also because it feeds the unrealistic hopes of the dreamer types that CCP will (or even can) deliver the kind of all encompassing "Immersive Space Universe" that is at the heart of the whole thing.
They can't. They tried, they failed.I love CCP, but they've done one thing right and that's EVE (the flying in space part). Everything else they've tried failed. Like I said earlier, it's not a pvp vs pve thing, it's more a "I like EVE pretty much how it's built now" side vs a "EVE would be so wonderful if it were a more immersive experience" side. I think CCPs history has shown that they can deliver a good niche game, but not a good 'super immersive' experience.
Gonna attempt another food anaology here lol . CCP is like a person who can make one hell-fire lovely Hamburger but screws up every other dish. The WiS crowd is composed of people who don't much like hamburger (or like hamburger some but think it could be better) and keeps asking CCP to fry up some chicken....while ignoring the charred carcases of 12 years worth of burned to a crisp chicken parts lol.
Good thing is, that a new KFC (Star Citizen) is opening up down the street in about 5 more years (lol) so you'll get your yard-bird fix then.... Maybe
Quote: You feel me ? Or still obstinate on pretending all is well and everyone should be all smiles and giggles or gtfo.
Oh, and hugs ... I still like you Jenn.
Pretending? Who exactly is pretending? All is well for me and I'd hazard to say people like me. We have this niche game where the developers are focusing on that which we think is important (space ships and flying in space) while ingoring the fantasy stuff the WiS people want.
They may even be making a 'leg based' stand alone PC shooter game , which ideally would satisfy the desire of some to walk around New Eden a bit. And as long as they keep that sort of thing where it belongs outside of EVE Online, I'll keep being happy about it.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4626
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Posted - 2016.02.04 21:39:08 -
[1611] - Quote
(Off topic)
One of my pet peeves is that some day the videogame industry will find the way to exploit the feminine take on competition. Everybody wants to be a winner, but entertainment industry is led by males and they don't even imagine that women are competing 24/7 right under their noses and would gladly pay for the chance to feel like winners... even if it was just a videogame.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
14
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Posted - 2016.02.05 01:19:58 -
[1612] - Quote
Hmmm... looks like we are talking about extremes again...
PVP vs PVE, CCP can't do this vs CCP can easily do this...
It seems to me that talking in extremes is what is contributing to nothing being done either way and it gets to be lines in the sand that people debate about and aren't really in concrete to begin with so to me, we should be trying to work together toward a solution that is win-win for everyone and doesn't end up as lose-lose for everyone.
Those that think that development of expanding the game to include avatar interaction will detract from resources that are currently driving the direction the game is headed in have a point. However, would you support an effort that DIDN'T take away from those resources, even if you think that isn't possible right now, if it could be possible, would you support the effort?
Those that feel that it can't be done in stages and has to rival all the other space MMO's that already do this (and you might color me in this group) right out of the gate, would you support some kind of staged deployment concept where the avatar universe expands more slowly and incrementally? (I would if done well, has to be a little less buggy than CQ currently is.)
To those that think that this will kill PvP or PvE in some fashion, what if it introduces PvP or PvE on a different level? Maybe two characters that duke it out in space meet up on planet and become buddies, or face each other in the street 'high noon' style, or extend a rivalry that ends up drawing entire corps and alliances into the mix. Would that be okay with you?
What I'm looking for is what people are willing to do to achieve a goal. I personally think that with enough backing, we could see a fully developed avatar world that is an extension of New Eden that we all could enjoy, and new players also would have places to even perhaps run in simulators before they embark in their rookie ships, any idea is possible.
My thinking is centered around the idea of, as humans, we tend to attach ourselves to object, human objects even more. If we attach ourselves to human looking avatars that have human interaction, then wouldn't that be more of an incentive to stay playing than ditching a few starships and a skill tree where we are always paranoid about interacting with other ships that aren't our corp buddies?
I, speaking only for myself, will stop wanting it if someone from CCP management says it's too expensive and dead forever. Then EVE will forever be what it is right now. Otherwise, I'll hold out hope for the expansion concept. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2368
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 01:29:44 -
[1613] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:
What you say is correct: you can't have a cake and eat it ! But you're trying to apply this case to a scenario where you can bake multiple cakes. When Indah says "Let's have different flavoured cakes.", you say "we can't mix flavours, that would taste horrible" barring the possibility that each cake can have one flavour different from the other cakes.
CCP baked different cakes. There were called Incarna, WoD and DUST (and they thought up other cakes, like atmospheric flight, EVA exploration and Legion). Those cakes fell a bit flat lol. one had it's ingredients sold before it ever got into an oven, one got half baked (It's a "one room" cake lol) and the last one is literally about to bite the DUST. The one cake that didn't fall flat is called EVE. I don't think it's terribly outlandish to say to the Baker that you should keep doing the thing that works and leave the rest alone. CCP baked a cake, they went off doing other things, they failed. In the meantime EvE got stale. The EvE cake is full of worms all crying out that EvE was made for worms to eat which is not true. Eve was made for miners missioners pvp'rs and any other group that wanted to join up and create content. Not for worms who can't adapt.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2518
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Posted - 2016.02.06 02:09:55 -
[1614] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:... In the meantime EvE (cake) got stale. .. So last year, they blew up some of the cake and put cardboard in another part for flavour. Next week they sell the secret ingredient and offer to smear it over their bodies for you to lick off.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2368
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Posted - 2016.02.06 06:37:04 -
[1615] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:... In the meantime EvE (cake) got stale. .. So last year, they blew up some of the cake and put cardboard in another part for flavour. Next week they sell the secret ingredient and offer to smear it over their bodies for you to lick off. That sounds pretty awesome
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4644
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Posted - 2016.02.06 10:49:57 -
[1616] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:... In the meantime EvE (cake) got stale. .. So last year, they blew up some of the cake and put cardboard in another part for flavour. Next week they sell the secret ingredient and offer to smear it over their bodies for you to lick off.
If I had the means, I would like to learn how has inflation impacted CCP's financials. 15 Gé¼/ $ buy you now less stuff than they could 12 years ago. My guess is that inflation's impact on CCP's income would be related to Iceland's inflation but then we must factor the evolution of ISK versus EUR, GBP and USD... and that really flies over my head.
Houm... guess I'll start a thread with this. Nothing could be lost.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 13:29:38 -
[1617] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:... In the meantime EvE (cake) got stale. .. So last year, they blew up some of the cake and put cardboard in another part for flavour. Next week they sell the secret ingredient and offer to smear it over their bodies for you to lick off. If I had the means, I would like to learn how has inflation impacted CCP's financials. 15 Gé¼/ $ buy you now less stuff than they could 12 years ago. My guess is that inflation's impact on CCP's income would be related to Iceland's inflation but then we must factor the evolution of ISK versus EUR, GBP and USD... and that really flies over my head. Houm... guess I'll start a thread with this. Nothing could be lost.
Well factor in there are more players playing MMOs these days and more MMOs to choose from. There's also a lot of failed MMOs that survived by going F2P. So games to remain competitive have to have a lower subscription rate than they used to. Which is why you see more in-game shops and other services on offer.
Wouldn't mind betting that CCP make a tidy sum from the sale of PLEX and Aurum, although mainly PLEX.
So in relation to the game, what you are considering is kind of pointless. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
409
|
Posted - 2016.02.08 23:21:22 -
[1618] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming?
Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate- Inception (2010)
Regards, a Freelancer
ps: the idea was Ambulation (2007)
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games pay More to win at skill training time, now with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2377
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 08:46:47 -
[1619] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:Malcanis wrote:In a few months, we'll be at the 5th anniversary of incarna. Will 5 full years of no significant updates suffice to convince any of you that nothing is coming?
Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate- Inception (2010) Regards, a Freelancer ps: the idea was Ambulation (2007) If CCP dont do it someone will. Not Star Citizen, an EvE like game that caters to everyone. The nonsense that you cant please everyone is just that.
Using EvE as an example the game has PvP, Mining, Trading, Manufacturing, Missions, Exploration... where it falls down other than PvP is quality. Even so it still managed around 40k+ at one time.
If the devs concentrated less on ships, theres a nonsensical amount of them now, and brought the rest of the game up to par including finishing the promised WIS they would make a fortune.
Likely theyll go broke one day relying on 15 year old EvE and non flagship startups and Sony will snap it up and make it terrible though.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4931
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 09:30:25 -
[1620] - Quote
If you really want WIS to happen, you should really stop talking things like this:
Quote:If the devs concentrated less on ships, theres a nonsensical amount of them now, and brought the rest of the game up to par including finishing the promised WIS they would make a fortune. Its EVE and core gameplay is build around reasons to fly spaceships here, at least until there is a reason to go on your own feet somewhere.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2378
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:16:07 -
[1621] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:If you really want WIS to happen, you should really stop talking things like this: Quote:If the devs concentrated less on ships, theres a nonsensical amount of them now, and brought the rest of the game up to par including finishing the promised WIS they would make a fortune. Its EVE and core gameplay is build around reasons to fly spaceships here, at least until there is a reason to go on your own feet somewhere. Ships exist in EvE to accomplish tasks. Tasks dont exist so you can fly ships. theres not a single thing you can do in EvE that diesnt already have multiple ships available for doing that thing. on the other hand there are plenty of things to do that are subpar that have very well designed ships. why add more. balance them and work on content. ships are not content.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2520
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 11:44:39 -
[1622] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:... there's not a single thing you can do in EvE that doesn't already have multiple ships available for doing that ... Speaking of which, I hoped to wake up in a station and then get in my one ship. That we could have longer fights and escape, that systems and regions were not so easy to cross. I dreamt of plotting a course that would sling shot around planets, which I had mapped out to get somewhere quicker than others, that I might have a crew to talk with (as avatars) and they would do things, like one manage a range of ewar modules, another the repair systems and another would be using the guns, while I over saw the strategy and controlled ship movements (roles interchangeable)
Having a different ship for each task and having whole sets of them always struck me as a bit weird. (Now obviously, EVE is completely different from that and won't be like that). However, via the tools I mentioned, players could generate ship interiors, so you could one day go from CQ to ship and have friends walking around in it with you or hanging out and chatting while attached to a citadel.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Amber Kurvora
233
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 12:42:59 -
[1623] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:[quote=Infinity Ziona].
I dreamt of plotting a course that would sling shot around planets, which I had mapped out to get somewhere quicker than others, that I might have a crew to talk with (as avatars) and they would do things, like one manage a range of ewar modules, another the repair systems and another would be using the guns, while I over saw the strategy and controlled ship movements (roles interchangeable)
Having a different ship for each task and having whole sets of them always struck me as a bit weird. (Now obviously, EVE is completely different from that and won't be like that). However, via the tools I mentioned, players could generate ship interiors, so you could one day go from CQ to ship and have friends walking around in it with you or hanging out and chatting while attached to a citadel.
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe...
Sadly that level of immersion is being left to Star Citizen for the time being. I'm not even sure Eve would be capable of that level of detail, purely because of how large the really big battles are.
I shall now do an impression of the CCP serves in such a scenario:
"Oh, hello there battle... ACK! I...AM...DYING...tell them....worth.....it."
Maybe if they ever develop quantum servers it'll be a thing, but till that point I think we'll have to live with our ships as our space bound avatars. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5036
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 12:51:38 -
[1624] - Quote
Amber Kurvora wrote:"Oh, hello there battle... ACK! I...AM...DYING...tell them....worth.....it."
Still better experience than Scam Citizen.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Amber Kurvora
233
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 13:13:52 -
[1625] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Amber Kurvora wrote:"Oh, hello there battle... ACK! I...AM...DYING...tell them....worth.....it." Still better experience than Scam Citizen.
Not going to argue that. I've got a friend who thinks it's the second coming of Jesus, which is laughable considering how many time the Devs have moved the goalposts. If it collapses under it's own weight/wait, I shall do my best to act surprised. |
Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
119
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 13:19:14 -
[1626] - Quote
62,400+ views and it all started with..."I was away from EVE for a while...."
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:34:50 -
[1627] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.
Oh come on, players were butt hurt because of the $80 monocle but they didn't want to come out and say they were too poor to get one so they took out their rage on Jita |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 17:31:10 -
[1628] - Quote
Frank Truck wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. Oh come on, players were butt hurt because of the $80 monocle but they didn't want to come out and say they were too poor to get one so they took out their rage on Jita
The high price of the monocle was the excuse, it was more of an anti in-game shop thing. |
Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 18:23:01 -
[1629] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:If you really want WIS to happen, you should really stop talking things like this: Quote:If the devs concentrated less on ships, theres a nonsensical amount of them now, and brought the rest of the game up to par including finishing the promised WIS they would make a fortune. Its EVE and core gameplay is build around reasons to fly spaceships here, at least until there is a reason to go on your own feet somewhere.
A reason to WiS??
I thought all gamers knew the answer to this?
Online Sex |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2520
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 04:19:33 -
[1630] - Quote
Amber Kurvora wrote:... Sadly that level of immersion is being left ... I don't expect it of EVE. The very core of the game would not support it.
Walking through the CQ door and into a Dust social environment is entirely possible, however. Having them hitching rides on our ships and us being able to eject them, again possible.
Selecting a, "Board ship" object and loading inside your ship as any change zone happens, is also entirely possible. Choosing a station camera and looking outside the station or citadel (only visual) as if you are piloting it like a ship is also possible.
There are so many directions that EVE can go but we keep getting more new ships and shiny baubles that put us further away from a newbie start point in either time or cost.
EVE could have more ways to play instead of more stuff to play with.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 08:49:12 -
[1631] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Frank Truck wrote:Abrazzar wrote:We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features. Oh come on, players were butt hurt because of the $80 monocle but they didn't want to come out and say they were too poor to get one so they took out their rage on Jita The high price of the monocle was the excuse, it was more of an anti in-game shop thing. Yes it was gold ammo and "greed is good". WIS was a bystander that got caught in the stampede.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
530
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 09:40:10 -
[1632] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Yes it was gold ammo and "greed is good". WIS was a bystander that got caught in the stampede.
Also the fact that CCP:
- killed the ship view and replaced it with a static low-res ugly wallpaper for everyone
- some users couldn't run the CQ or at least not without considerable strain on their GPU, which wouldn't have been so much of a problem if the alternative wasn't an ugly wallpaper.
- the way CCP communicated with their players:
-- huge hype The Fanfast presentations / prototypes showed much more than we ever got.
-- almost nothing to show for (1 very badly lit Minmatar CQ) after 18 months and iirc one dropped expansion out of the usual 6 month expansions
-- marketing going overboard Remember how project ambulation was renamed Incarna and how CCP celebrated the release of Incarna ... and then see the point above, where "Incarna" is one CQ (or wallpaper) and a closed door ... then go back to the demoed prototypes ... and back to what the Incarna expansion actually looked like ...
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4718
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 10:05:34 -
[1633] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Yes it was gold ammo and "greed is good". WIS was a bystander that got caught in the stampede.
Also the fact that CCP: - killed the ship view and replaced it with a static low-res ugly wallpaper for everyone - some users couldn't run the CQ or at least not without considerable strain on their GPU, which wouldn't have been so much of a problem if the alternative wasn't an ugly wallpaper. - the way CCP communicated with their players: -- huge hype The Fanfast presentations / prototypes showed much more than we ever got. -- almost nothing to show for (1 very badly lit Minmatar CQ) after 18 months and iirc one dropped expansion out of the usual 6 month expansions -- marketing going overboard Remember how project ambulation was renamed Incarna and how CCP celebrated the release of Incarna ... and then see the point above, where "Incarna" is one CQ (or wallpaper) and a closed door ... then go back to the demoed prototypes ... and back to what the Incarna expansion actually looked like ...
After reading the latest devblogs on the Citadel expansion, I am having a new feeling.
Incarna was a good concept that was implemented horribly. Now with the Rubicon plan CCP is implementing perfectly a bad concept.
Seriously, read the devblogs. The amount of work put behind citadels and the new structures is amazing. Incarna would have rocked the place with only 1/3rd of the work behind Citadel alone!
But then read my signature. Who is going to use structures whose only real purpose is to fight over them anyhting between 3 to 21 hours a week? As in, how many people plays EVE only for the PvP?
Discussing this yesterday, I was told "meh, PLH shows you're a carebear!" Yes I am. So are 2/3rds of the game population. And Rubicon brings absolutely nothing for us.
But 5 years after Incarnageddon, Rubicon is being implemented perfectly...
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 11:24:56 -
[1634] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Yes it was gold ammo and "greed is good". WIS was a bystander that got caught in the stampede.
Also the fact that CCP: - killed the ship view and replaced it with a static low-res ugly wallpaper for everyone - some users couldn't run the CQ or at least not without considerable strain on their GPU, which wouldn't have been so much of a problem if the alternative wasn't an ugly wallpaper. - the way CCP communicated with their players: -- huge hype The Fanfast presentations / prototypes showed much more than we ever got. -- almost nothing to show for (1 very badly lit Minmatar CQ) after 18 months and iirc one dropped expansion out of the usual 6 month expansions -- marketing going overboard Remember how project ambulation was renamed Incarna and how CCP celebrated the release of Incarna ... and then see the point above, where "Incarna" is one CQ (or wallpaper) and a closed door ... then go back to the demoed prototypes ... and back to what the Incarna expansion actually looked like ... After reading the latest devblogs on the Citadel expansion, I am having a new feeling. Incarna was a good concept that was implemented horribly. Now with the Rubicon plan CCP is implementing perfectly a bad concept. Seriously, read the devblogs. The amount of work put behind citadels and the new structures is amazing. Incarna would have rocked the place with only 1/3rd of the work behind Citadel alone! But then read my signature. Who is going to use structures whose only real purpose is to fight over them anyhting between 3 to 21 hours a week? As in, how many people plays EVE only for the PvP? Discussing this yesterday, I was told "meh, PLH shows you're a carebear!" Yes I am. So are 2/3rds of the game population. And Rubicon brings absolutely nothing for us. But 5 years after Incarnageddon, Rubicon is being implemented perfectly... Sad but true :) 2/3rds of their customers fund the toys for the one third. i love private games companies but their management can sometimes be a little wack. can hear the cries of "EvE is a PvP game and we wont change" as their ideoillogical ship starts sinking soon
the irony of course is its always been primarily PvE funded
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2522
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 03:31:35 -
[1635] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:... - some users couldn't run the CQ or at least not without considerable strain on their GPU, which wouldn't have been so much of a problem if the alternative wasn't an ugly wallpaper. ... For a short time there was no opt out of CQ option. My computer temperatures looking fine. AFK an hour and RIP my 8800GTX.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
530
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 06:38:00 -
[1636] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:... - some users couldn't run the CQ or at least not without considerable strain on their GPU, which wouldn't have been so much of a problem if the alternative wasn't an ugly wallpaper. ... For a short time there was no opt out of CQ option. My computer temperatures looking fine. AFK an hour and RIP my 8800GTX.
Wow ... even worse than I remembered. Thanks for correcting me.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
354
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 07:16:29 -
[1637] - Quote
People recalling the summer of rage often forget about the Golden Scorpion.
There were clear signs that CCP was willing to damage the market in order to make themselves more money.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5137
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 07:32:52 -
[1638] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:... - some users couldn't run the CQ or at least not without considerable strain on their GPU, which wouldn't have been so much of a problem if the alternative wasn't an ugly wallpaper. ... For a short time there was no opt out of CQ option. My computer temperatures looking fine. AFK an hour and RIP my 8800GTX. What i remember is Ball Grid Array technology not up to peoples expectations and failing connections from many cycles of overheating cards. I have one of those, but it works to this day thanks to.... magic. It was resurected.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
531
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 08:12:14 -
[1639] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: But then read my signature. Who is going to use structures whose only real purpose is to fight over them anyhting between 3 to 21 hours a week? As in, how many people plays EVE only for the PvP?
Discussing this yesterday, I was told "meh, PLH shows you're a carebear!" Yes I am. So are 2/3rds of the game population. And Rubicon brings absolutely nothing for us.
But 5 years after Incarnageddon, Rubicon is being implemented perfectly...
I have played many online games where you fought over static control points on a map designed by a level designer. Being able to fight over player built structures which on top of that are 100% destructible is a wet dream turning into reality. It's an important step for EvE because:
1) It's in the spirit of EvE being player controlled with no or little interference outside of the playerbase. (sandbox)
2) It's in the spirit of "everything that can be built can also be destroyed"
3) It's in line with "EvE is a dark and harsh universe"
4) Other games are starting to take cues from EvE (and Minecraft) and create sandbox experiences of their own.
That being said, I still feel that some more fleshed-out avatar gameplay would benefit EvE. Basically the core idea behind EvE as described on the old drawing board was that EvE is a SciFi simulator, a complete world bringing every aspect alive even though just space was modelled back then (2005/2006 and earlier years). Avatar gameplay belongs in EvE as much as PI, DUST 514 and EvE:Valkyrie do, because it would expand the EvE universe that we can interact with. It is 100% in line with the originl concept: New Eden is actually out there and every aspect of the game EvE is a part that has become available to players to interact with. The things that we cannot do or see yet are still there: We have crews on our ships, there are people living in the staions and on the planets ... it just hasn't been opened to interaction with the players.
Now concerning the PVE vs PVP discussion. They describe activities and perhaps to some degree how players want to play EvE at a given time. Since almost every PvP player engages in some PvE activity to fund his playstyle, the PvE numbers reflect mainly "current activity" over "preferred playstyle". I find that throwing percentages around, based on some artificial notion of what is and what isn't a PvE player, is not helpful to the discussion.
Generally labelling people as RP, PvE, WIS crowd .... has only served people who want to dismiss all your arguments with a single wipe. "Oh, you RP ... so you have no sense of reality and all your arguments are invalid." People who engaged in FW in the early days can attest to the fact that we were not taken seriously as people had large misconceptions of what FW actually is. All the while FW saw more PvP activity than many other places or playstyles.
So yeah, don't label me as PvE player just because I enjoy doing level 4 missions in high-sec. Don't label me as WIS crowd just because I support the original concept of ambulation -> Incarna -> walking in stations. Label me as EvE player, for that I am.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 08:47:14 -
[1640] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: But then read my signature. Who is going to use structures whose only real purpose is to fight over them anyhting between 3 to 21 hours a week? As in, how many people plays EVE only for the PvP?
Discussing this yesterday, I was told "meh, PLH shows you're a carebear!" Yes I am. So are 2/3rds of the game population. And Rubicon brings absolutely nothing for us.
But 5 years after Incarnageddon, Rubicon is being implemented perfectly...
I have played many online games where you fought over static control points on a map designed by a level designer. Being able to fight over player built structures which on top of that are 100% destructible is a wet dream turning into reality. It's an important step for EvE because: 1) It's in the spirit of EvE being player controlled with no or little interference outside of the playerbase. (sandbox) 2) It's in the spirit of "everything that can be built can also be destroyed" 3) It's in line with "EvE is a dark and harsh universe" 4) Other games are starting to take cues from EvE (and Minecraft) and create sandbox experiences of their own. That being said, I still feel that some more fleshed-out avatar gameplay would benefit EvE. Basically the core idea behind EvE as described on the old drawing board was that EvE is a SciFi simulator, a complete world bringing every aspect alive even though just space was modelled back then (2005/2006 and earlier years). Avatar gameplay belongs in EvE as much as PI, DUST 514 and EvE:Valkyrie do, because it would expand the EvE universe that we can interact with. It is 100% in line with the originl concept: New Eden is actually out there and every aspect of the game EvE is a part that has become available to players to interact with. The things that we cannot do or see yet are still there: We have crews on our ships, there are people living in the staions and on the planets ... it just hasn't been opened to interaction with the players. Now concerning the PVE vs PVP discussion. They describe activities and perhaps to some degree how players want to play EvE at a given time. Since almost every PvP player engages in some PvE activity to fund his playstyle, the PvE numbers reflect mainly "current activity" over "preferred playstyle". I find that throwing percentages around, based on some artificial notion of what is and what isn't a PvE player, is not helpful to the discussion. Generally labelling people as RP, PvE, WIS crowd .... has only served people who want to dismiss all your arguments with a single wipe. "Oh, you RP ... so you have no sense of reality and all your arguments are invalid." People who engaged in FW in the early days can attest to the fact that we were not taken seriously as people had large misconceptions of what FW actually is. All the while FW saw more PvP activity than many other places or playstyles. So yeah, don't label me as PvE player just because I enjoy doing level 4 missions in high-sec. Don't label me as WIS crowd just because I support the original concept of ambulation -> Incarna -> walking in stations. Label me as EvE player, for that I am. The stats came from CCP if I recall. While ago but they released data showing % of people engaging in activities, entering null etc. Irrespective of whether PvErs also sometimes engage in PvP if the vast majority primarily engage in PvE then its an illogical and incompetent business decision to ignore PvE development.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5140
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 08:53:10 -
[1641] - Quote
Quote:People who engaged in FW in the early days can attest to the fact that we were not taken seriously as people had large misconceptions of what FW actually is. On one of my characters I once singlehandedly denied Gallente pilot farming of complexes in Caldari FW system. I had this unarmed, stabbed and kiting merlin and he was in catalyst. Tried chasing me for a moment , then he went elsewhere. I felt like "mission accomplished" and "for the state" and "everyone counts". It was good. I was even promoted.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4723
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:49:23 -
[1642] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:(...)
Now concerning the PVE vs PVP discussion. They describe activities and perhaps to some degree how players want to play EvE at a given time. Since almost every PvP player engages in some PvE activity to fund his playstyle, the PvE numbers reflect mainly "current activity" over "preferred playstyle". I find that throwing percentages around, based on some artificial notion of what is and what isn't a PvE player, is not helpful to the discussion.
Generally labelling people as RP, PvE, WIS crowd .... has only served people who want to dismiss all your arguments with a single wipe. "Oh, you RP ... so you have no sense of reality and all your arguments are invalid." People who engaged in FW in the early days can attest to the fact that we were not taken seriously as people had large misconceptions of what FW actually is. All the while FW saw more PvP activity than many other places or playstyles.
So yeah, don't label me as PvE player just because I enjoy doing level 4 missions in high-sec. Don't label me as WIS crowd just because I support the original concept of ambulation -> Incarna -> walking in stations. Label me as EvE player, for that I am.
The issues is that we know (have known for years) that PvE is the only actiivity for a majority of players whereas players engaging in PvP at all are in a minority. We even have data from CCP on that respect.
See, my experience with what does people do ingame comes from a lucky coincidence. I am a native Spanish speaker, and Spanish chat channel was the place where Spanish speaking players gathered. Each one with his own trade and endeavor in EVE. So by looking at who did what in Spanish cannel, that was a good cross section of who does what in EVE at all.
Even now, when the channel is smaller since CCP killed the non-supported official channels, PvPrs pun at how "all guys in channel are carebears". Of course we are. PvPrs have always been a noisy but small minority. You see their killmails, their quarrels, their discussions... but as soon as you mention anything relevant to PvE, other voices start speaking. And they outnumber PvPrs.
See, EVE does not have a "general discussion" chat channel spanning all the sever. That would be unbearable. So language channels are a good test ground for the actual composition of the population. And the fact is that most people don't pay CCP for the PvP.
The "complete subscribers" who do everything in the game are 30%. Then there's an 8% who do lots of PvP and little more. The rest do little to no PvP; with fleet and assist being the top PvP actions (probably through specialyzed alts, not mains), and not doing any PvP at all is what 25+12% of subscribers do.
Now, these data are posterior to the inception of the Rubicon Plan. So the Rubicon Plan was built based on what CCP figured about players without actually looking at what they did ingame.
This is very important to understand. CCP Seagull's footprint in EVE will be to conceive the Rubicon Plan based on Customer oriented design and the tools to measure what do subscribers do exactly when they play the game. And both things happened simultaneously.
So there is a very real chance that the Rubiocn plan was aimed at the subscribers as CCP imagined them in 2014, plus a dose of "vision", whereas the real susbcribers as CCP is knowing them in 2016 are a different demographic. One that does a lot less PvP than PvP loud mouths could make believe, and a crowd that does a lot more PvE than "EVE is a PvP game and PvE is just a grind for the PvP" fantasies say.
Incarna aimed at every player. Everybody could, potentially, engage in avatar activities, much as 92% of the subscribers do PvE one way or another, even as a minor activity.
Whereas Rubicon is aimed at PvP, and PvP is a minoritary acitvity no matter how you measure it.
When Incarna busted, the minority of PvPrs asked more PvP. CCP obliged and 5 years later EVE is going to get more PvP than ever. And yet most subscribers neither do PvP nor care for PvP, and very certainly don't give money to CCP for the PvP. It's like when Coca Cola made it a sweeter drink to please some customers, and found to their horror that most people would rather go to buy Coke in Canada than drink the new formulation. The "New Coke" fiasco is a paradygm in marketing failures based on wrong information.
Knowing your customers is the key part of "customer oriented design", but likely CCP didn't knew their customers as well as they thought when in 2014 they greenlighted the Rubicon Plan. Probably as better and better data on what do customers actually do has been learned, there's been a lot of finger crossing and spindoctoring going on at CCP to keep everybody focused in succesfully implementing New EVE and hoping that most customers will buy the PvP flavored expansions to come rather than grow bored of the stale PvE and quit.
I could be wrong. That's something I can afford. But CCP will be in serious trouble unless Citadel reverts the trend for server population and starts a second age of sustained growth. Because failing that, the only way up will be F2P and that's going to kill EVE even if CCP can pick their poison. Or, as Plan B, CCP may just let EVE decay and die in peace as other projects become cash cows.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
531
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:13:28 -
[1643] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:(snip) Now concerning the PVE vs PVP discussion. They describe activities and perhaps to some degree how players want to play EvE at a given time. Since almost every PvP player engages in some PvE activity to fund his playstyle, the PvE numbers reflect mainly "current activity" over "preferred playstyle". I find that throwing percentages around, based on some artificial notion of what is and what isn't a PvE player, is not helpful to the discussion. (snip)
The stats came from CCP if I recall. While ago but they released data showing % of people engaging in activities, entering null etc. Irrespective of whether PvErs also sometimes engage in PvP if the vast majority primarily engage in PvE then its an illogical and incompetent business decision to ignore PvE development.
Yes, that is correct and I support your argument fully. What Inda does, is saying that 2/3 of people are PvE only players ... that is hard to confirm or deny because that's not what CCPs numbers say. What you say on the other hand seems to me the correct interpretation of CCPs numbers.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
|
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
531
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:20:43 -
[1644] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: See, my experience with what does people do ingame comes from a lucky coincidence. I am a native Spanish speaker, and Spanish chat channel was the place where Spanish speaking players gathered. Each one with his own trade and endeavor in EVE. So by looking at who did what in Spanish cannel, that was a good cross section of who does what in EVE at all.
Even now, when the channel is smaller since CCP killed the non-supported official channels, PvPrs pun at how "all guys in channel are carebears". Of course we are. PvPrs have always been a noisy but small minority. You see their killmails, their quarrels, their discussions... but as soon as you mention anything relevant to PvE, other voices start speaking. And they outnumber PvPrs.
See, EVE does not have a "general discussion" chat channel spanning all the sever. That would be unbearable. So language channels are a good test ground for the actual composition of the population. And the fact is that most people don't pay CCP for the PvP.
TIL Spanish players lack cojones ... explains why I only ever met 1 Spaniard in my time in the MinMil aka Minmatar militia. ok, ok, I'm joking. I know that some people don't speak english well. We once had a guy translate FC commands in real time to his french mates ... on the same voice channel !!! Utter chaos.
But seriously, your argument doesn't stand. This fallacy is taking a small group as representative for the whole [Pars per toto]. In statistics you're taught to model the group you're observing after the whole population in order to limit skewed results. It's very simple though: you can destroy billions worth of isk in a matter of minutes, creating the same amount of isk will take much longer.
Also, while pvp'ing you have less time for idle chat. Compare that to the thrilling life of miners ...
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: The "complete subscribers" who do everything in the game are 30%. Then there's an 8% who do lots of PvP and little more. The rest do little to no PvP; with fleet and assist being the top PvP actions (probably through specialyzed alts, not mains), and not doing any PvP at all is what 25+12% of subscribers do.
Now, these data are posterior to the inception of the Rubicon Plan. So the Rubicon Plan was built based on what CCP figured about players without actually looking at what they did ingame.
This is very important to understand. CCP Seagull's footprint in EVE will be to conceive the Rubicon Plan based on Customer oriented design and the tools to measure what do subscribers do exactly when they play the game. And both things happened simultaneously.
So there is a very real chance that the Rubiocn plan was aimed at the subscribers as CCP imagined them in 2014, plus a dose of "vision", whereas the real susbcribers as CCP is knowing them in 2016 are a different demographic. One that does a lot less PvP than PvP loud mouths could make believe, and a crowd that does a lot more PvE than "EVE is a PvP game and PvE is just a grind for the PvP" fantasies say.
I agree that CCP has a skewed view of their playerbase. It's in the nature of the beast.
1997-2003: CCP builds a sandbox game with a vision behind and releases it to the public 2003-20xx: Players turn everything upside down, find and exploit bugs, distort game mechanics ...
Also CCP hires from the playerbase, usually from people who had been active in larger alliances. The CSM gets most of its members from larger alliance because of blockvoting. Sometimes reddit users get a different treatment than this very forum ... and even here, what is the predominant opinion in GD may not reflect what people think in F&I, C&P, MD, OOPE .... Who should CCP listen to ?
And lastly: Who is CCP ? They themselves are a diverse group of people with different opinions, goals, powers ... Reminds me of ex-employee (CCP) Soundwave "I don't get RP ... I thought everyone RPs all the time." ... lead game-designer, my behind too.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Incarna aimed at every player. Everybody could, potentially, engage in avatar activities, much as 92% of the subscribers do PvE one way or another, even as a minor activity.
Whereas Rubicon is aimed at PvP, and PvP is a minoritary acitvity no matter how you measure it.
When Incarna busted, the minority of PvPrs asked more PvP. CCP obliged and 5 years later EVE is going to get more PvP than ever. And yet most subscribers neither do PvP nor care for PvP, and very certainly don't give money to CCP for the PvP.
The appeasement period right after Incarnagate was horrible indeed. "You don't want avatars in EvE, we got the message. Here are 10 new ships, we good now ? Here 10 more ships and next year we'll add many more ships"
I think we have moved on since, but indeed some facet of EvE are not getting enough attention at this time. I think that industry and trading need some dev love too. But honestly: revamping the sov system and rebalancing the ships was badly needed. I just hope that after citadels and cap ships we can get CCP to focus on non-spaceship parts again.
Minority, majority doesn't really matter in all of this. A vision for the whole of EvE is what counts ... for the benefit of all of us even if specific expansions just target a small group. CCP Seagul seems to have that vision.
Yin and Yang ... we need both for perfect harmony ... life and death ... PvE and PvP ...
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2522
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:07:39 -
[1645] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote: I know that some people don't speak english well. We once had a guy translate FC commands in real time to his french mates ... on the same voice channel !!! Utter chaos. ... On comms have language specific sub-channels with a priority speaker who translates, just like for logistics and such. Jill Xelitras wrote:Generally labelling people as RP, PvE, WIS crowd .... has only served people who want to dismiss all your arguments with a single wipe. "Oh, you RP ... so you have no sense of reality and all your arguments are invalid." Further support of this, is that I am a big old carebear.
I don't RP much. Haven't made many friends in this city because I move so often. Online feels so constrained by the tools at hand.
... and yet, I support WiS because it gives people options and other ways to play.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4749
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:45:08 -
[1646] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:(...)
But seriously, your argument doesn't stand. This fallacy is taking a small group as representative for the whole [Pars per toto]. In statistics you're taught to model the group you're observing after the whole population in order to limit skewed results. It's very simple though: you can destroy billions worth of isk in a matter of minutes, creating the same amount of isk will take much longer.
Also, while pvp'ing you have less time for idle chat. Compare that to the thrilling life of miners ...
Oh, come on... Speaking Spanish doesn't favors certain ingame acitvities over others. Thus people who speak Spanish will roughly do the same as people who speak English -everything in the game. That's why the Spanish community (or any language comunity) is a good cross section of the game population.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2540
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:47:11 -
[1647] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Oh, come on... Don't care. Get back on topic.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
537
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:03:08 -
[1648] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:(...) fallacy Oh, come on... Speaking Spanish doesn't favors certain ingame acitvities over others. Thus people who speak Spanish will roughly do the same as people who speak English -everything in the game. That's why the Spanish community (or any language comunity) is a good cross section of the game population.
There are different temperaments, tastes, preferences between groups from different countries, social backgrounds, education levels, genders ...
If Spanish speaking people were distributed equally around the globe from Canada to Japan and from Chile to Russia things would look differently than they do with the way Spanish people are actually distributed over the world map.
Just look at how different South Corea, Japan, China are from Europe or the USA. Look at how different the UK, USA, Canada and Australia are from each other despite the common language. If you still think that Spanish speaking people are the perfect representation of all the afformentioned people, I can't help you.
As a fellow EU citizen (yes I know there is no EU citizenship) you should know how diverse people can be.
Reminds me of this cartoon, when EU had 12 member states.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
|
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
537
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:44:19 -
[1649] - Quote
Indahttp://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~stark/SticiGui/Text/sampling.htm
Do a ctrl + F and search the page for "hite". Then read from the first match on.
TL;DR version:
In the 1950 two separate studies in the US found largely different results. The McKinsey report found that 26% of women had extra-marital affairs. The Hite report found that number to be 70%. Both numbers could not be right of course. So, who was closer to the truth and what went wrong at the other report ? Turns out Hite was wrong because she completely dismissed the questionnaires that hadn't been filled out and returned. So the (probably happily married) women that didn't have extra-marital affairs and didn't bother to answer the questionnaires didn't get counted.
Also:
Quote:Hite also says that the following is representative of women in the US:
Feminists have raised a cry against the many injustices of marriageGÇöexploitation of women financially, physically, sexually, and emotionally. This outcry has been just and accurate.
Sounds familiar ? The vocal minority that cries louder than the satisfied EvE players ? Hmm ... ?
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4749
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:51:21 -
[1650] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:(...) fallacy Oh, come on... Speaking Spanish doesn't favors certain ingame acitvities over others. Thus people who speak Spanish will roughly do the same as people who speak English -everything in the game. That's why the Spanish community (or any language comunity) is a good cross section of the game population. There are different temperaments, tastes, preferences between groups from different countries, social backgrounds, education levels, genders ... If Spanish speaking people were distributed equally around the globe from Canada to Japan and from Chile to Russia things would look differently than they do with the way Spanish people are actually distributed over the world map. Just look at how different South Corea, Japan, China are from Europe or the USA. Look at how different the UK, USA, Canada and Australia are from each other despite the common language. If you still think that Spanish speaking people are the perfect representation of all the afformentioned people, I can't help you. As a fellow EU citizen (yes I know there is no EU citizenship) you should know how diverse people can be. Reminds me of this cartoon, when EU had 12 member states.
Now you're being utterly silly. We are talking about EVE players. If you think that being from a certain country changes what a EVE player does in EVE, you'd better bring some evidence. But be warned: CCP already stated that there are no meaningful player trends by nationality.
Language doesn't affects the ingame activities of a EVE player. Specially when there's 26 nationalities and 500 million people behind that language.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
|
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
538
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 00:43:11 -
[1651] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:(...) fallacy Oh, come on... Speaking Spanish doesn't favors certain ingame acitvities over others. Thus people who speak Spanish will roughly do the same as people who speak English -everything in the game. That's why the Spanish community (or any language comunity) is a good cross section of the game population. There are different temperaments, tastes, preferences between groups from different countries (snip) Now you're being utterly silly. We are talking about EVE players. If you think that being from a certain country changes what a EVE player does in EVE, you'd better bring some evidence.
Another strong finding in this study is that cities from Latin America (Brazil, Costa Rica, Mexico, El Salvador) and Spain were all above the mean in overall helping, and on average were more helpful than the other international cities. This difference can be attributed to the importance of the cultural script of simpatia (in Spanish) or simpatico (in Portuguese) in Latin American and Hispanic cultures (Rodrigues & Assmar, 1988; Triandis et al., 1984). These terms, which have no equivalent in English, refer to a range of amiable social quali- tiesGÇöto be friendly, nice, agreeable, and good-natured (i.e., a person who is fun to be with and pleasant to deal with). Helping strangers is also part of this script. Simpatia and simpa- tico emphasize prioritizing amiable social behaviors as compared with, for example, empha- sizing achievement and productivity. This explanation in terms of simpatia is of course merely suggestive in that it is correlational. Other explanations are possible. All the simpatia cultures have primarily Roman Catholic populations. Furthermore, these are societies that are cultures of honor. It is plausible that cultural traits associated with Roman Catholicism or the friendliness deriva- tive of honor cultures may be the crucial variable that accounts for the higher rates of helping among Hispanic cultures. source: http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~ara/Manuscripts/Levine%2520et%2520al%2520helping.pdf
We conducted a Procrustes Factors Analysis for all scales, including prevention focus (cautiousness, dutifulness), self-regulation strength (impulse control), need for structure, and self-monitoring ability. For the personal need for structure scale, the normative EFA revealed that, as expected, the 8 items loaded cleanly onto two factors: desire for structure and response to lack of structure. When the cultural samples were subjected to procrustes rotation, the identity coefficient for the desire for structure factor exceeded the .90 cutoff for all 33 countries, but the identity coefficient for the response to lack of structure factor only met the .90 cutoff for 17 countries.
The data showed that Southern Asian and Confucian Asian nations are the tightest (M = 11.69, SD = 0.62 and M = 8.64, SD = 1.84 respectively) and Eastern European nations are loosest (M = 3.60, SD = 1.65). Nordic/Germanic European (M = 6.04, SD = 2.21), Latin European (M = 5.87, SD = 1.80), Anglo (M = 5.09, SD = 1.30), and Latin American (M = 4.78, SD = 2.11) nations are in the mid-range.
source: http://server1.tepper.cmu.edu/Seminars/docs/Gelfand_paper.pdf
No, there are truly no cultural differences ....
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33351
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 03:17:55 -
[1652] - Quote
oh **** walking in stations
I thought it said walking like egyptians.
nevermind.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2557
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 03:23:18 -
[1653] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:oh **** walking in stations I thought it said walking like egyptians. nevermind. Just how drunk are you today?
So:
Jill Xelitras wrote:Sounds familiar ? The vocal minority that cries louder than the satisfied EvE players ? Hmm ... ? Jill X says something that supports Chunk's argument and that blows right past and they continue arguing about something irrelevant.
*Sigh*
Get a convo you two.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4751
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 07:59:15 -
[1654] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:(...) fallacy Oh, come on... Speaking Spanish doesn't favors certain ingame acitvities over others. Thus people who speak Spanish will roughly do the same as people who speak English -everything in the game. That's why the Spanish community (or any language comunity) is a good cross section of the game population. There are different temperaments, tastes, preferences between groups from different countries (snip) Now you're being utterly silly. We are talking about EVE players. If you think that being from a certain country changes what a EVE player does in EVE, you'd better bring some evidence. Another strong finding in this study is that cities from Latin America (Brazil, Costa Rica, Mexico, El Salvador) and Spain were all above the mean in overall helping, and on average were more helpful than the other international cities. This difference can be attributed to the importance of the cultural script of simpatia (in Spanish) or simpatico (in Portuguese) in Latin American and Hispanic cultures (Rodrigues & Assmar, 1988; Triandis et al., 1984). These terms, which have no equivalent in English, refer to a range of amiable social quali- tiesGÇöto be friendly, nice, agreeable, and good-natured (i.e., a person who is fun to be with and pleasant to deal with). Helping strangers is also part of this script. Simpatia and simpa- tico emphasize prioritizing amiable social behaviors as compared with, for example, empha- sizing achievement and productivity. This explanation in terms of simpatia is of course merely suggestive in that it is correlational. Other explanations are possible. All the simpatia cultures have primarily Roman Catholic populations. Furthermore, these are societies that are cultures of honor. It is plausible that cultural traits associated with Roman Catholicism or the friendliness deriva- tive of honor cultures may be the crucial variable that accounts for the higher rates of helping among Hispanic cultures. source: http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~ara/Manuscripts/Levine%2520et%2520al%2520helping.pdf We conducted a Procrustes Factors Analysis for all scales, including prevention focus (cautiousness, dutifulness), self-regulation strength (impulse control), need for structure, and self-monitoring ability. For the personal need for structure scale, the normative EFA revealed that, as expected, the 8 items loaded cleanly onto two factors: desire for structure and response to lack of structure. When the cultural samples were subjected to procrustes rotation, the identity coefficient for the desire for structure factor exceeded the .90 cutoff for all 33 countries, but the identity coefficient for the response to lack of structure factor only met the .90 cutoff for 17 countries. The data showed that Southern Asian and Confucian Asian nations are the tightest (M = 11.69, SD = 0.62 and M = 8.64, SD = 1.84 respectively) and Eastern European nations are loosest (M = 3.60, SD = 1.65). Nordic/Germanic European (M = 6.04, SD = 2.21), Latin European (M = 5.87, SD = 1.80), Anglo (M = 5.09, SD = 1.30), and Latin American (M = 4.78, SD = 2.11) nations are in the mid-range. source: http://server1.tepper.cmu.edu/Seminars/docs/Gelfand_paper.pdf No, there are truly no cultural differences ....
And there you go again. Still no evidence that nationality impacts how does a EVE player play EVE (hint: in no meaningful way, according to CCP).
Cultural impacts may mean that the individual chance to become a EVE plaeyr is different in Spain than Russia or the USA. Certainly different nations pick their games in different ways. But there is a long stretch at proving that different natioanlities play the same game in different ways, and let alone when it's a game as open as EVE.
I shall repeat: according to CCP, there are no meaningful national patterns in what players do.
Cultural impacts exist, certainly. This is why there is not, and will never be, a Spanish uberalliance based on language, like "the Russians". Yet that's very different than saying that being Spanish in language means that a player (a individual) will not go to nullsec or there will not be smaller Spanish alliances or Spanish players in non-Spanish alliances. Also language impacts the chances of playing EVE: most people don't speak enough English to bother with unlocalized games. Yet for people who speak Spanish and play EVE, that means no difference: they all feel comfortable enough with English as to wade through the available resources, with help from Spanish speaking veterans.
That is, once anyone from any culture becomes a EVE player, chances are that he does so because of the individual he is, not because of the nation he is.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5255
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 08:13:25 -
[1655] - Quote
Cultural differences are nothing. We have people in the same country murdering themselves for a dime, like in Mexico, like in Syria, like in a bunch of other countries, everyday someone there cant stand other people so much they must destroy them.
And on this accent I hope we will end this dispute about cultural and other differences and get back to pondering about the WIS, and when it will happen, and in what form.
I think the closest we will come will be with the new supposed PC game replacing DUST.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33357
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 08:15:38 -
[1656] - Quote
That's what I'm looking forward to.
Rain6637 wrote:We're getting WiS and it's called Legion. It's been sneaked under everyone's noses. Huzzah
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
538
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 09:57:20 -
[1657] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Cultural impacts may mean that the individual chance to become a EVE plaeyr is different in Spain than Russia or the USA. Certainly different nations pick their games in different ways.
... and then suddenly, flick of the switch, once EvE is running we shed our cultural and individual differences and behave all exactly in the same way.
Except:
Cultural impacts exist, certainly. This is why there is not, and will never be, a Spanish uberalliance based on language, like "the Russians".
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: But there is a long stretch at proving that different natioanlities play the same game in different ways, and let alone when it's a game as open as EVE.
Americans, Germans, Japanese, French ... all of them have car manufacturers. Cars are all the same: some wheels, an engine, steering wheel ... right ? No different design philosophies, engineering habits ... right ? People all over the world have the same tastes and buying habits ... right ? No Italian design fluff, no american love for pick-up trucks ... right ?
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: I shall repeat: according to CCP, there are no meaningful national patterns in what players do.
Sure a miner is a miner, a mission runner is a mission runner and so on.
But does this automatically mean that they don't use different tactics or react the same to outside stimuli ?
Have you ever driven a car in Italy, where red lights are just a suggestion ? Have you driven a car in Paris, where you better give way to cars with visible scratches ? Have you driven a car in the Netherlands, where priority is given to bicycles ?
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: That is, once anyone from any culture becomes a EVE player, chances are that he does so because of the individual he is, not because of the nation he is.
And the point of the linked studies was that you find more individuals of one kind in one country than in another country. They found helpful people all over the world, but more of them in some countries ...
Do you think that a person who loves interacting with people and another person who hates interacting with people, both change how they react to people whe they start playing EvE ? Even if both start let's say mining ... Don't you think that the first one will end up socializing in some way and the second one isolating himself ?
You now pick one of them at random and say he's the model for how all miners are. But he's not because the other miner is the exact opposite. That's my point: your empirical evidence is skewed. ... and that is before we consider the other statistical fallacy that I pointed out in my other post that you ignored so far (see the Hite vs McKinsey example).
To make it clearer: In the case of this sociable and isolating miners, CCP says that they didn't find more sociable or more isolating miners. Therefore the degree of sociability doesn't play a role in choice of profession (mining). It says nothing about how one may prefer mining fleets. It says nothing about how one uses more voice-comms. It says nothing about how one writes more to the forum. It says nothing about how much either of them reads the forum. It says nothing about how each miner reacts to getting ganked. ... etc.
Statistics: They don't have to be made up or even wrong to be misleading. Statistics: Where interpretation is as much of a science as actually creating them. Statistics: They don't lie, but they don't tell all of the truth either. Statistics: How can you not love statistics ?
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33361
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 10:16:45 -
[1658] - Quote
I see way too many countries listed for this to not get shut down for politics
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
538
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Posted - 2016.02.16 10:17:45 -
[1659] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:That's what I'm looking forward to. Rain6637 wrote:We're getting WiS and it's called Legion. It's been sneaked under everyone's noses. Huzzah
That would be *** (walking on planets) or RoP (running on planets) ... possibly GoP (gunning on planets)
edit: Now I'm curious to know why that specific order of letters warrants being censored.
edit2: "...pejorative slur used to describe..." Ok, I get it.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5259
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 10:19:51 -
[1660] - Quote
In DUST They have lobby in space. So it is walking in stations. At least partially.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2559
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:45:08 -
[1661] - Quote
Jill Xelitras and Indahmawar Fazmarai
Please, can you two just wipe your posts and mail each other? We are not interested and rather you two don't get this thread locked.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:52:22 -
[1662] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Yes it was gold ammo and "greed is good". WIS was a bystander that got caught in the stampede.
Also the fact that CCP: - killed the ship view and replaced it with a static low-res ugly wallpaper for everyone - some users couldn't run the CQ or at least not without considerable strain on their GPU, which wouldn't have been so much of a problem if the alternative wasn't an ugly wallpaper. - the way CCP communicated with their players: -- huge hype The Fanfast presentations / prototypes showed much more than we ever got. -- almost nothing to show for (1 very badly lit Minmatar CQ) after 18 months and iirc one dropped expansion out of the usual 6 month expansions -- marketing going overboard Remember how project ambulation was renamed Incarna and how CCP celebrated the release of Incarna ... and then see the point above, where "Incarna" is one CQ (or wallpaper) and a closed door ... then go back to the demoed prototypes ... and back to what the Incarna expansion actually looked like ... Yeah its odd they developed it from scratch. so many tried n tested engines out there. they did a decent job of animation and internals but could have done much more using a proper engine.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2559
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Posted - 2016.02.16 12:23:14 -
[1663] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah its odd they developed it from scratch. so many tried n tested engines out there. they did a decent job of animation and internals but could have done much more using a proper engine. Probably wanted outright ownership and I don't blame them for that.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4751
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Posted - 2016.02.16 14:14:32 -
[1664] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah its odd they developed it from scratch. so many tried n tested engines out there. they did a decent job of animation and internals but could have done much more using a proper engine. Probably wanted outright ownership and I don't blame them for that.
Well, CCP haves a long standing career/habit of reinventing the wheel; probably is a legacy from the Hero Times when they couldn't afford to buy commercial code so they had to code everything themselves in any way they could... giving birth to the Undocumented Python Spaghetti Code Of Doom that used to lie behind most of the game. UPSCOD is the reason why we can't just log out back to the login screen and why POSes are being phased out rather than be modified.
What is sad is that the curent avatar engine in EVE is really good. EVE's avatars are of incredible quality 5 years after being released. Yet this engine is dead; WoD's evolved version was abandoned and EVE's part of the code is just legacy, and probably nobody who worked on it is still in the company.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
33
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Posted - 2016.02.16 20:32:36 -
[1665] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Sad but true :) 2/3rds of their customers fund the toys for the one third. i love private games companies but their management can sometimes be a little wack. can hear the cries of "EvE is a PvP game and we wont change" as their ideoillogical ship starts sinking soon
the irony of course is its always been primarily PvE funded
What you are calling PvE is input PvP (resources and corps) which has a friendly edge and nobody dies very often for it, but all the large fleet battles are actually done in contest for those input resources and control, which is PvP at the largest concept. CCP Falcon was pretty clear on this but I had to have that pointed out to me before I got that. It was a learning experience so I'm passing it on here.
I like your breaking it up into thirds, because that is probably fairly close to the truth, but it's really: gathering, creation, destruction. In game terms this is: Mining/Salvage, Industry/Research, Combat (read: ships blowing up... lots of them).
When you look at the game this way, and realize that competition exists across that entire spectrum, it's far easier to understand why things are built the way they are and where the balance headaches come into play. CCP is trying to maintain that balance for everyone and one change in on place, especially at the front end or back end can have dramatic issues on the other aspects.
Give them some credit, they are trying to keep the balance and I know from personal game design experience, it's really, really hard and you will never please everyone. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27175
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Posted - 2016.02.16 22:53:15 -
[1666] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:The issues is that we know (have known for years) that PvE is the only actiivity for a majority of players whereas players engaging in PvP at all are in a minority. We even have data from CCP on that respect. We really don't.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2582
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 02:59:57 -
[1667] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:The issues is that we know (have known for years) that PvE is the only actiivity for a majority of players whereas players engaging in PvP at all are in a minority. We even have data from CCP on that respect. We really don't. What we have is you wilfully misrepresenting a categorisation of players and their activities that CCP has done specifically to disprove your distorted and falsely dichotomised view of those groups. CCP's data tells pretty much the exact opposite to what you want the data to say. Assuming Chunks is right, that still wouldn't matter too much. Yes, High Sec needs improvement, if only because it is the first impression that new players have of EVE.
However, the dreams are to one day fly a Titan or lead fleet in Null or own a Class 6 worm hole and such. PVP dreams in a PVP centric sandbox. The people that are here for PVE will never have enough content to keep them happy for more than a few years. Null already has an average account life span of five years. Just look at how people burn through content on other games.
We could throw in some randomisation and some procedurally created content. Modularise mission components and shuffle them. There are ways to spice things up.
However, I would start by putting new players in a Null Sec like system for an hour or two with a variety of frigates that have modules and the skills to fly them. Mission 1: Go fight another new player. No penalties, no losses, nothing goes out to kill boards but for a few hours it is like they are on the test server and can just shoot people.
After that they get teleported to their starting system.
Give them a big juicy bite of the pie so they will want to bake one and get that back again.
@Chunks, try the test server, lose 50 ships. If you mail me I will even give you some half decent fits to try. You might find you have been keeping pure for nothing.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
448
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Posted - 2016.02.18 09:18:43 -
[1668] - Quote
Woodman2 wrote:I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left. Here is some great info from the CSM assembly hall forums source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5079977#post5079977
Regards, a Freelancer
ps: my posts on there are on page 10
Freelancer117 wrote: Eve online is a game about meta politics, the null sec shite-lords saw that the company did the following and changed the perception of Ambulation, now known as Walking in Stattions (WiS) to further their cause for Flying in Space (FiS).
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2587
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 12:05:00 -
[1669] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:But that's not all...
In the past few years, the game hasn't been receiving the love it really needed. In fact, I feel it's been rather neglected in favour of shiny new toys and projects.
Incarna
Think about it. Since the 2011 riots, what has ACTUALLY been done with the game? Systems have been overhauled, revisions have been done, iterations have been made. But how did the game actually evolve? All the core systems still work almost exactly the same as before. We got some polish, but not much else. The game has remained stagnant ever since CCP decided to put Incarna on ice. Go ahead, take a look at the 'expansions' and patches for EVE since 2011. We haven't actually seen any game-changing content after Apocrypha hit, unless you count Dominion as well.
Player rioted because CCP was ignoring existing content and focusing only on new 'Jesus features'. Rather than find a balance between new features and iterating existing ones, CCP downsized the staff actually working on EVE and is now focusing almost solely on iteration instead. I hope I don't have to explain how this is also a bad thing.
Stagnation follows as a result. Rather than take a chance and completely overhaul sovereignty, CCP elected to make what pretty much boils down to an incredibly minor change. Wormhole systems were basically ignored after Apocrypha to begin with. Industry works almost exactly the same as it did 13 years ago, albeit with a new coat of paint. Missions are still incredibly boring as PvE content, including burner missions. PvP still comes down to mostly 'who brings the most caps and the most stable internetconnection'. ... From here
More ways to play EVE
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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