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Iss Marginis/Borealis (appeal to all in the interests of the game)

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Lunamariea Hawke Gallente Combined industrial	Posted - 2006.10.16 20:54:00 - [1] D2 and Iron and Co. have set ISS to -10 and are in the process of camping attacking Marginis/Borealis. From various channels i gather that an incident down south has been used by D2 as an excuse for this, history shows from NFC, sparta and others that this is the normal D2 way of using/triggering a small matter to aid removing things that do not suit them. I and many others devote a lot of time to enjoying this game and we appreciate these outposts. Do not let D2 etc take and close off these. Despite what people say ISS have brought a new angle to the game that has opened up 00 space for everyone. If it falls then it will be closed off to everyone else and that would be a shame for the game as it is there are too many parts of the game that are closed off to most.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.16 20:56:00 - [2] ISS ** over anyone who doesn't suit them. I hope d2 takes borealis tbh. As for marg i hope they leave it so others my enjoy the oppurtunities it can bring In rust we trust!!!**
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:00:00 - [3] As far as I know, we have no intention of taking ISS outposts, several incidents during our operations in the south led command to set ISS to -10 shoot on sight. However some of our pilots have a personal disliking of ISS and will no doubt be blowing holes in ISS members around their outposts, and since it is 0.0 d2 (like many other alliances) operate an nbsi policy, don't take it personally the alliance as a whole isn't at war with ISS someone more senior may word my sentiments better sorry if you lost a ship, the way of unsecure space i guess
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:04:00 - [4] I think D2 are doing a tour of Eve at the moment visiting a different region everyday
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:05:00 - [5] Until you see cyno fields, D2 is just on a road trip. - Movie: 9UY - Got Fighters?
Assassin 2 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:20:00 - [6] looks like D2 are getting a little greedy. Let the fun and games begin
geewiz InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Assassin 2 looks like D2 are getting a little greedy. Let the fun and games begin What hugging EC/Torr gate and blowing up targets that are weak, ofc your alliance would never do that now would they? Gee
xbreaka Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:31:00 - [8] with the show your putting on in fade atm, i dont think you really have room to be complaining
Celine de'Fursac Amarr Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:33:00 - [9] well maybe u should stop collaborating with the hobbits :D and stay neutral as you are suppose to be. So stop whining and assume responsabiltiy
d4ve InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:38:00 - [10] what celine said.. and lol at trying to bring up the NFC/Sparta fiasco btw. ___
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:38:00 - [11] Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 16/10/2006 21:38:56 Thats funny, because D2 have been docking in ISS Cassini all day. Originally by: geewiz Originally by: Assassin 2 looks like D2 are getting a little greedy. Let the fun and games begin What hugging EC/Torr gate and blowing up targets that are weak, ofc your alliance would never do that now would they? Gee Pot, kettle....
Taralesk Inshani Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:56:00 - [12] . Originally by: Ashen Brarn Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
SaorAlba Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:58:00 - [13] Keep in mind these two things and then read the original lokal chat log below of the so called "forced incident. 1. ISS officially say they claim no space. 2. We had ISS deep blue at the time of the incident. --------------------------------------------------------------- Channel ID: (('solarsystemid2', 30002586),) Channel Name: Local Listener: SaorAlba Session started: 2006.10.15 07:37:26 --------------------------------------------------------------- [ 2006.10.15 07:44:38 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 4OIV-X Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:45:49 ] EVE System > Channel changed to TM-0P2 Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:46:55 ] EVE System > Channel changed to N-CREL Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:48:44 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 3-UCBF Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:49:50 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 1-7KWU Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:51:01 ] EVE System > Channel changed to H-HWQR Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:52:14 ] EVE System > Channel changed to D-9UEV Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:53:18 ] EVE System > Channel changed to RH0-EG Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:54:31 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 4-P4FE Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:54:55 ] Kithaca > you are entering restricted territory. [ 2006.10.15 07:55:04 ] SaorAlba > **** of fool [ 2006.10.15 07:55:39 ] SaorAlba > there is no iss teritory and don't make me mad [ 2006.10.15 07:56:11 ] Kithaca > you have been warned, and are marked KoS. [ 2006.10.15 07:56:18 ] SaorAlba > hahah [ 2006.10.15 07:56:23 ] Kithaca > this is not ISS territoriy, this is LV territory. [ 2006.10.15 07:56:38 ] SaorAlba > you are iss [ 2006.10.15 07:56:53 ] SaorAlba > are you a lapdancer of lv? [ 2006.10.15 07:57:16 ] SaorAlba > keep out of allaince policy or it drag you in to it [ 2006.10.15 07:57:29 ] Kithaca > i don't make the policy. [ 2006.10.15 07:57:32 ] Kithaca > i enforce it. [ 2006.10.15 07:57:37 ] SaorAlba > why don't you come to the gate and pod me? [ 2006.10.15 07:57:37 ] Kithaca > last chance. get out. [ 2006.10.15 07:58:05 ] SaorAlba > 3l3n gate m6 [ 2006.10.15 07:58:21 ] SaorAlba > come over and do me a favour [ 2006.10.15 07:58:27 ] SaorAlba > morron [ 2006.10.15 07:59:40 ] SaorAlba > come on [ 2006.10.15 07:59:50 ] SaorAlba > check scanner see pod [ 2006.10.15 07:59:55 ] Kithaca > i'm boarding my ship, dont' get your panties in a knot. [ 2006.10.15 07:59:56 ] SaorAlba > kill pod [ 2006.10.15 08:00:06 ] SaorAlba > and do us all a favour [ 2006.10.15 08:00:53 ] SaorAlba > what's keepin you? [ 2006.10.15 08:01:05 ] SaorAlba > I ma still in restricted space [ 2006.10.15 08:01:10 ] SaorAlba > I refuse to go [ 2006.10.15 08:01:18 ] SaorAlba > now kill me [ 2006.10.15 08:01:37 ] SaorAlba > 3lcn [ 2006.10.15 08:02:24 ] SaorAlba > Anotherfool with a wide mouth and no balls [ 2006.10.15 08:02:56 ] Elisa Day > Is it your wish to die horribly? [ 2006.10.15 08:03:17 ] SaorAlba > do it m8 [ 2006.10.15 08:03:28 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Agil Local Channel --------------------------------------------------------------- Judge for your self my audience. Does D2 not have every right to set ISS at -10?
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:08:00 - [14] Originally by: SaorAlba Judge for your self my audience. Does D2 not have every right to set ISS at -10? He was rather abrupt in the manner he meant about that, and I don't blame you for being angry. ISS rent the northern half of Tenerifis from LV. They are obliged to keep people out of the space as part of their deal with LV. I agree this should have been dealt with through a discreet convo rather than those obtuse threats in local. I'm sure ISS management will be horrified to read it. Unfortunately every alliance has the odd tard who ruins it for everyone else, and this is one such person. I know that ISS value their relationship with D2 very much, and indeed have worked with your full co-operation regarding both the Pure Blind outposts they have. Would be a shame to throw all that away because of one idiot. Hopefully they will kick him from the alliance for being a tard, and I'm sure an apology from their management will be forthcoming in your direction.
biggums	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:18:00 - [15] Edited by: biggums on 16/10/2006 22:18:45 lol
xbreaka Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: SaorAlba Judge for your self my audience. Does D2 not have every right to set ISS at -10? He was rather abrupt in the manner he meant about that, and I don't blame you for being angry. ISS rent the northern half of Tenerifis from LV. They are obliged to keep people out of the space as part of their deal with LV. I agree this should have been dealt with through a discreet convo rather than those obtuse threats in local. I'm sure ISS management will be horrified to read it. Unfortunately every alliance has the odd tard who ruins it for everyone else, and this is one such person. I know that ISS value their relationship with D2 very much, and indeed have worked with your full co-operation regarding both the Pure Blind outposts they have. Would be a shame to throw all that away because of one idiot. Hopefully they will kick him from the alliance for being a tard, and I'm sure an apology from their management will be forthcoming in your direction. you sir are misinformed, iss does not fully co-operate with d2 regarding their space in pure blind, they allow RISK who are d2 enemies to setup POS's and harass the resident traveling through there. ISS is a thorn in the north's side and should have been removed a long time ago. (My views are mine alone, and do not reflect my corp or alliance.)
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:21:00 - [17] Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/10/2006 22:25:32 Originally by: biggums you sir are misinformed, iss does not fully co-operate with d2 regarding their space in pure blind, they allow RISK who are d2 enemies to setup POS's and harass the resident traveling through there. ISS is a thorn in the north's side and should have been removed a long time ago. (My views are mine alone, and do not reflect my corp or alliance.) Well, its true to say ISS can't police the region for you, they are simply not that kind of alliance. I know they have fought RISK in the north, and TRI, and many others who are hostile to D2. Indeed ISS often camped the Torr/EC gate with D2/IRON before the standings change. The co-operation I talked about was more than just shooting people D2 doesnt like (ISS is under no obligation to do that after all), it goes back to co-operation regarding the outpost systems. Indeed, ISS Borealis was actually constructed at the request of G/IRON and the locals at the time. They also removed docking rights for The Five at G/IRONS request following The Five using the outpost as a stage for attacks against G/IRON. So there is a definate history of friendly co-operation.
Lunamariea Hawke Gallente Combined industrial	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:23:00 - [18] My point exactly, 1 or 2 idiots who were kicked before the standings change anyway, not that that bothers some people. look what happened when that nfc guy helped the goons. D2 didnt care that it was 1 idiot out of line they used it as an excuse to get rid of NFC and bring back Iron. I do seem to remember that when Iron (old Iron) used to rent out Dek to others they had similar rules.......
Scrofalitic One Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Butter Dog Unfortunately every alliance has the odd tard who ruins it for everyone else, and this is one such person. ... Hopefully they will kick him from the alliance for being a tard, and I'm sure an apology from their management will be forthcoming in your direction. Unfortunatly this was not the only incident that occured. There were other actions taken by ISS members that constituted valid reasons for the change to neg standing. Of course as I am a mere grunt I would not dream of speaking for the alliance, or on behalf of anyone but myself, but maybe a bit of shooty-shooty will make ISS reconsider acting as ASCN scouts in the future...
Third Down Hard Rock Cafe	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Butter Dog ISS rent the northern half of Tenerifis from LV. They are obliged to keep people out of the space as part of their deal with LV. If that is actually the whole deal, it's a really bad one for ISS.
Karina Harington Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Butter Dog Indeed ISS often camped the Torr/EC gate with D2/IRON before the standings change. Staring at the gate from 400km in a shuttle doesn't count.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Karina Harington Originally by: Butter Dog Indeed ISS often camped the Torr/EC gate with D2/IRON before the standings change. Staring at the gate from 400km in a shuttle doesn't count. lol, true... but when ISSN are up North they usually camp it pretty solidly :)
marcouk2 Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Butter Dog I know they have fought RISK in the north ISS have a nap with risk Originally by: Butter Dog Indeed ISS often camped the Torr/EC gate with D2/IRON before the standings change. The most common time we saw ISS in ec was in haulers when we were camping the gate.
Darko1107 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:33:00 - [24] Who really cares why anyway. Even so, the idea of ever creating a neutral alliance was a bold but stupid one. ------------------ Sig removed, please keep it under the 24,000 byte limit, if you have any questions please email [email protected] - Xorus
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:33:00 - [25] Originally by: marcouk2 Originally by: Butter Dog I know they have fought RISK in the north ISS have a nap with risk Yeah, they used to fight them I should have said. But read the ISS Charter, they are bound by neutrality and if they start shooting people because you don't like them... well it kind of goes against everything they should be about I guess. Its really tough trying to be neutral. You get a lot of suspicion. Most of its not really justified of course, but I can understand the paranoia, its human nature to be mis-trusting.
Lunamariea Hawke Gallente Combined industrial	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:34:00 - [26] "The most common time we saw ISS in ec was in haulers when we were camping the gate." Probably because ISS are mostly industrial corps.
marcouk2 Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: marcouk2 Originally by: Butter Dog I know they have fought RISK in the north ISS have a nap with risk Yeah, they used to fight them I should have said. But read the ISS Charter, they are bound by neutrality and if they start shooting people because you don't like them... well it kind of goes against everything they should be about I guess. Its really tough trying to be neutral. You get a lot of suspicion. Most of its not really justified of course, but I can understand the paranoia, its human nature to be mis-trusting. oh im sorry, i must be missing all of the iss kills on the risk killboard.
Azeroth Uluntil Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:44:00 - [28] Edited by: Azeroth Uluntil on 16/10/2006 22:44:18 Currently, I don't believe any station taking has been planned, however, that may change at any time. Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Darko1107 Who really cares why anyway. Even so, the idea of ever creating a neutral alliance was a bold but stupid one. I can see what you mean, but you know, ISS have lasted a long time, and are successful in their goals of opening up 0.0 - 7 outposts and counting. Also they have over 2000 members, so I think we can say the idea has worked better than anyone thought it would. I'm biased because I like ISS and what they stand for. Its unique. To all good things there comes an end. They may want to open up 0.0 to others, but they need to control their members a little more perhaps. Then again, it could be said that all alliances have this problem. :-) Either way, doesn't change the fact that ISS members were working with entities hostile to IRON/D2/FLA/Anyone else? and as such are now hostile. Hopefully we can see the ISSN in space to defend their interests. Also, can't say I don't love the idea of even more targets!
xbreaka Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:48:00 - [29] illegally mining, ratting, and setting up other devices in someone elses space isnt the greatest way to get cuddly with us northern residents either.
Kalissa D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:49:00 - [30] It's quite difficult for any alliance to stay friendly to everyone, at least in the long term. ISS really have done quite a good job being able to sit on the fence this long really. However I would expect that if D2 and friends go after ISS with all guns blazing that we'll see ISS being wiped off the northern map. We've fought ISS in the past many times and the only part of the alliance that can fight at all is the ISSN and even they are prone to making mistakes.
Aceris The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:59:00 - [31] Originally by: marcouk2 Originally by: Butter Dog I know they have fought RISK in the north ISS have a nap with risk Originally by: Butter Dog Indeed ISS often camped the Torr/EC gate with D2/IRON before the standings change. The most common time we saw ISS in ec was in haulers when we were camping the gate. Yeah well there's some truth in that. The fundamental problem with EC is that it's main value is in control of the gate, and ISS, with their limited rules of engagement, can't really control the gate, even if they had the ships and pilots to do so. As a result there hasn't been much ISS PvP presence in EC except when the navy pays a visit. (Not that ISS is noted for it's PvP power anyway). If you want to know what living in EC under a NRDS RoE is like, I'm sure your ex-TRUST friends can tell you all about it. This whole thing about ISS not fighting your enemies in Pure Blind is a bit of a red herring though, since as I understand it that was never the basis on which D2 encouraged them to be there. The real issue as I understand it is the various things that went on down south, which I know very little about. What I will say is it's very frustrating for those of us up north to be thrown into a war with people we had marked as friendlies, who heavily outgun and outnumber us, because of some things that went on on the other side of the cluster, but that's Eve I guess :)
thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:00:00 - [32] I cant say i really say i like the idea of neutral industrial groups in 0.0, for me they are pretty much like gank corps.. 0.0 is about team work.. industrial working with PVP and vice versa.. >: )
Asha Vividrin Vividrin Enterprises	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:10:00 - [33] Well over 2000 member yes or no, maybe it's time to get some quality members in who are staying in line. Now you pay. Renting space from LV is not really considered as being neutral as well. Further, considering Mr. Cyvok black and white world, how do you think they can survive that long in the south side? Neutrality is a game of behind scene diplomacy, now YOU PAY!!! ~ Sigs are lame ~
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:15:00 - [34] Such fluffy niceness, all in one thread. Did someone sneakily patch something when I wasn't looking to make all the servers stable and happy to support large concurrent fleet actions?
Metal Dude Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:24:00 - [35] Originally by: Butter Dog ... I'm biased because I like ISS and what they stand for. Its unique. Who are you kidding, bitter dog. Why would you be in an ISS thread when there's a perfectly good BoB thread going? Maybe because , em, you are an ISS alt? Kind of bad deal for your mains allince ticking off D2. It's nice to be all neutral when you can flame people from behind an alt. Too bad for ISS. Too bad one idiot can ruin it for the rest. The truth will set you free
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:25:00 - [36] Edited by: James Lyrus on 16/10/2006 23:25:58 Originally by: Metal Dude Originally by: Butter Dog ... I'm biased because I like ISS and what they stand for. Its unique. Who are you kidding, bitter dog. Why would you be in an ISS thread when there's a perfectly good BoB thread going? Maybe because , em, you are an ISS alt? Kind of bad deal for your mains allince ticking off D2. It's nice to be all neutral when you can flame people from behind an alt. Too bad for ISS. Too bad one idiot can ruin it for the rest. If this is an ISS thread, and ISS are all BoB alts, does it make it also a BoB thread, and thus redundant? I'm biased too, I rather like ISS as well.
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:28:00 - [37] If its true they rented space from LV, then this is just another proof they are not neutral: By renting from LV, they pay LV. which funds them against their enemies (RA etc), hence they are valid target in the south. Now lets move to the north: By making EC free to all hostiles of D2 etc to dock, they in essence, turned it into NPC station over which D2 (or whoever controls that area generally) has no control, and why should they put up with that, when they can simply siege the system and take it? and solve that problem. The idea of ISS is good, but they excution is a total failure. Too bad nobody has yet taken the ball of capturing their outposts.. with proper planning, MC wont help them! ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved!
Lilan Kahn Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:29:00 - [38] Originally by: Metal Dude Originally by: Butter Dog ... I'm biased because I like ISS and what they stand for. Its unique. Who are you kidding, bitter dog. Why would you be in an ISS thread when there's a perfectly good BoB thread going? Maybe because , em, you are an ISS alt? Kind of bad deal for your mains allince ticking off D2. It's nice to be all neutral when you can flame people from behind an alt. Too bad for ISS. Too bad one idiot can ruin it for the rest. Butter nub isnt in iss mains or alt, i know all his alts and they aint in iss Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Mark Weston Caldari The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 00:14:00 - [39] Edited by: Mark Weston on 17/10/2006 00:15:31 Edited by: Mark Weston on 17/10/2006 00:14:58 Originally by: Metal Dude Originally by: Butter Dog ... I'm biased because I like ISS and what they stand for. Its unique. Who are you kidding, bitter dog. Why would you be in an ISS thread when there's a perfectly good BoB thread going? Maybe because , em, you are an ISS alt? Kind of bad deal for your mains allince ticking off D2. It's nice to be all neutral when you can flame people from behind an alt. Too bad for ISS. Too bad one idiot can ruin it for the rest. So, er, D2 set ISS to -10 because Butter Dog was rude to BoB? Thought for the day: if you're going to call someone an alt, you might check their employment history first. New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Kayai Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.17 00:17:00 - [40] ISS crying for help makes me smile
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 00:23:00 - [41] From my direct observation, I have watched ISS pilots blatantly scouting D2 forces for hostile groups. They've even gone so far to boast about it in local to the effect of "nyah nyah, we're blue you can't touch me!" As charming as I'm sure this may be, it doesn't take terribly many of these sorts of incidents to flip the little switch that says "allow members to pod ISS nuisance".
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.17 00:27:00 - [42] Oh boo hoo ISS let MC dock there. They're a neutral party, they let everybody dock. IAC can dock there to attack whoever, MC can dock there to attack IAC, anybody can dock there to attack anybody, it's like a neutral NPC station run by players. All these big barking dogs "woof woof stay out of our space" have done is make asses out of themselves and reduce the quality of Eve. ISS is a breath of fresh air, they have done more to bring empire dwellers out to 0.0 than any other entity in the game. PS - This is my main and only character. I have plans to join a corp after the 28th.
Kespii Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.17 00:47:00 - [43] Originally by: SaorAlba Keep in mind these two things and then read the original lokal chat log below of the so called "forced incident. 1. ISS officially say they claim no space. 2. We had ISS deep blue at the time of the incident. --------------------------------------------------------------- Channel ID: (('solarsystemid2', 30002586),) Channel Name: Local Listener: SaorAlba Session started: 2006.10.15 07:37:26 --------------------------------------------------------------- [ 2006.10.15 07:44:38 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 4OIV-X Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:45:49 ] EVE System > Channel changed to TM-0P2 Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:46:55 ] EVE System > Channel changed to N-CREL Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:48:44 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 3-UCBF Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:49:50 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 1-7KWU Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:51:01 ] EVE System > Channel changed to H-HWQR Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:52:14 ] EVE System > Channel changed to D-9UEV Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:53:18 ] EVE System > Channel changed to RH0-EG Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:54:31 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 4-P4FE Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:54:55 ] Kithaca > you are entering restricted territory. [ 2006.10.15 07:55:04 ] SaorAlba > **** of fool [ 2006.10.15 07:55:39 ] SaorAlba > there is no iss teritory and don't make me mad [ 2006.10.15 07:56:11 ] Kithaca > you have been warned, and are marked KoS. [ 2006.10.15 07:56:18 ] SaorAlba > hahah [ 2006.10.15 07:56:23 ] Kithaca > this is not ISS territoriy, this is LV territory. [ 2006.10.15 07:56:38 ] SaorAlba > you are iss [ 2006.10.15 07:56:53 ] SaorAlba > are you a lapdancer of lv? [ 2006.10.15 07:57:16 ] SaorAlba > keep out of allaince policy or it drag you in to it [ 2006.10.15 07:57:29 ] Kithaca > i don't make the policy. [ 2006.10.15 07:57:32 ] Kithaca > i enforce it. [ 2006.10.15 07:57:37 ] SaorAlba > why don't you come to the gate and pod me? [ 2006.10.15 07:57:37 ] Kithaca > last chance. get out. [ 2006.10.15 07:58:05 ] SaorAlba > 3l3n gate m6 [ 2006.10.15 07:58:21 ] SaorAlba > come over and do me a favour [ 2006.10.15 07:58:27 ] SaorAlba > morron [ 2006.10.15 07:59:40 ] SaorAlba > come on [ 2006.10.15 07:59:50 ] SaorAlba > check scanner see pod [ 2006.10.15 07:59:55 ] Kithaca > i'm boarding my ship, dont' get your panties in a knot. [ 2006.10.15 07:59:56 ] SaorAlba > kill pod [ 2006.10.15 08:00:06 ] SaorAlba > and do us all a favour [ 2006.10.15 08:00:53 ] SaorAlba > what's keepin you? [ 2006.10.15 08:01:05 ] SaorAlba > I ma still in restricted space [ 2006.10.15 08:01:10 ] SaorAlba > I refuse to go [ 2006.10.15 08:01:18 ] SaorAlba > now kill me [ 2006.10.15 08:01:37 ] SaorAlba > 3lcn [ 2006.10.15 08:02:24 ] SaorAlba > Anotherfool with a wide mouth and no balls [ 2006.10.15 08:02:56 ] Elisa Day > Is it your wish to die horribly? [ 2006.10.15 08:03:17 ] SaorAlba > do it m8 [ 2006.10.15 08:03:28 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Agil Local Channel --------------------------------------------------------------- Judge for your self my audience. Does D2 not have every right to set ISS at -10? from the looks of the local, you are the one at fault. I laugh at you blaming ISS for doing anything wrong
n sx The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.17 00:57:00 - [44] In a similar incident, ISS pilots in LV space have threatened to shoot down IAC pilots, whom would also appear blue to them. ISS remains NAP'd with IAC regardless, though we're monitoring these threats closely.
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.10.17 01:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Torquemanda Corteaz As far as I know, we have no intention of taking ISS outposts, several incidents during our operations in the south led command to set ISS to -10 shoot on sight. Oh, that brings a smile to my face.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.17 01:16:00 - [46] ISS isn't nuetral they are quite far from nuetral. The day that sham of an organization is wipe from the galaxy i shall raise a toast to the chaos that will ensue around their outposts. In rust we trust!!!
Skeltek Caldari Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 01:19:00 - [47] hmm, ISS renting space from LV, promising to keep it clear from enemies in return? They should promise to kill all D2 enemies in EC, Pure Blind and surrounding space too then if they use our territory? ISS opens up 0.0 space for everyone, securing it with a stockpile of unselfish haulers. Imho they just occupy most central positions for sales and production at chokepoints between empire and 0.0. After the outpost was given to ISS, they failed to secure the space for neutrals and upkeep the good 0.0 access for empireresidents. ISS keeps neutrality. They¦ve even been pacifists ever from the start, they even prevent fights by giving D2 fleet intel to people in next system¦s localchat. ISS repeatedly provoking and colaborating with the enemy, giving intel, employing scouts and demanding accessrights to all of eve by stressing their neutrality. We had no plan to take ISS outposts or POSes and see no major reason to announce any epic news about ISS not marked with a "not dangerous to our pilots" any more. ISS simply is no longer been considered harmless to our members I guess. It¦s not even fun PvPing against averagely skilled enemies, not speaking about a non-PvP-alliance like ISS; so that can¦t be the reason either why we declared them non-blue. --->The only "advantage" D2 will get by the standingchange is the denial of stationaccess and worsening of our tech2 resupply.<--- kind regards, Skeltek ps: the above are my personal opinions and views(though ironical at some spots), I understand it might probably greatly differ from what my corp, alliance or alliance partners¦s views are.
Mynas Atoch Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 02:07:00 - [48] Originally by: Mistress Suffering From my direct observation, I have watched ISS pilots blatantly scouting D2 forces for hostile groups. They've even gone so far to boast about it in local to the effect of "nyah nyah, we're blue you can't touch me!" Independently of the ongoing incidents and political situation, I would appreciate the logs of such incidents you can supply. If I can verify them and they are from ISSN they won't be in it tomorrow. If they are from other ISS corps I expect a similar response. Mynas Atoch, XO, ISSN
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 02:19:00 - [49] Edited by: Louis DelaBlanche on 17/10/2006 02:22:55 Originally by: SaorAlba [ 2006.10.15 07:54:31 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 4-P4FE Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:54:55 ] Kithaca > you are entering restricted territory. [ 2006.10.15 07:55:04 ] SaorAlba > **** of fool [ 2006.10.15 07:55:39 ] SaorAlba > there is no iss teritory and don't make me mad [ 2006.10.15 07:56:11 ] Kithaca > you have been warned, and are marked KoS. [ 2006.10.15 07:56:18 ] SaorAlba > hahah [ 2006.10.15 07:56:23 ] Kithaca > this is not ISS territoriy, this is LV territory. [ 2006.10.15 07:56:38 ] SaorAlba > you are iss [ 2006.10.15 07:56:53 ] SaorAlba > are you a lapdancer of lv? [ 2006.10.15 07:57:16 ] SaorAlba > keep out of allaince policy or it drag you in to it [ 2006.10.15 07:57:29 ] Kithaca > i don't make the policy. [ 2006.10.15 07:57:32 ] Kithaca > i enforce it. [ 2006.10.15 07:57:37 ] SaorAlba > why don't you come to the gate and pod me? [ 2006.10.15 07:57:37 ] Kithaca > last chance. get out. [ 2006.10.15 07:58:05 ] SaorAlba > 3l3n gate m6 [ 2006.10.15 07:58:21 ] SaorAlba > come over and do me a favour [ 2006.10.15 07:58:27 ] SaorAlba > morron [ 2006.10.15 07:59:40 ] SaorAlba > come on [ 2006.10.15 07:59:50 ] SaorAlba > check scanner see pod [ 2006.10.15 07:59:55 ] Kithaca > i'm boarding my ship, dont' get your panties in a knot. [ 2006.10.15 07:59:56 ] SaorAlba > kill pod [ 2006.10.15 08:00:06 ] SaorAlba > and do us all a favour [ 2006.10.15 08:00:53 ] SaorAlba > what's keepin you? [ 2006.10.15 08:01:05 ] SaorAlba > I ma still in restricted space [ 2006.10.15 08:01:10 ] SaorAlba > I refuse to go [ 2006.10.15 08:01:18 ] SaorAlba > now kill me [ 2006.10.15 08:01:37 ] SaorAlba > 3lcn [ 2006.10.15 08:02:24 ] SaorAlba > Anotherfool with a wide mouth and no balls [ 2006.10.15 08:02:56 ] Elisa Day > Is it your wish to die horribly? [ 2006.10.15 08:03:17 ] SaorAlba > do it m8 [ 2006.10.15 08:03:28 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Agil Local Channel --------------------------------------------------------------- Judge for your self my audience. Does D2 not have every right to set ISS at -10? To me rather then a unprovoked attack by ISS upon an unsuspecting D2 traveller, this reads like after being asked you leave u smacked in local till they finally took the time to forcibly remove you. Maybe you were right to question the condratictory nature of their asking you to leave. But I fail to see how it alone justifies D2 setting ISS to -10, which is what you seem to be quoting it for. D2 setting ISS to -10 is interesting. Id be surprised if they currently plan to take the outposts as the EC outpost in paticular would be hell to police given its proximity to empire n pirates. Would draw them away from what sounds like a very enjoyable adventure down South. It is an accusation made by many (in private mostly) that certian ISS members do abuse their position of neutrality to aid one side against another in conflicts. A smart precaution i suppose to just set them all to red rather then have to pick n choose which ISS to shoot. -The above views, opinions & comments are those of an idividual & not of the corporation or alliance they are a member of-
Devian 666	Posted - 2006.10.17 02:29:00 - [50] ISS claim neutrality but I do not regard supplying enemies with ships, mods, ammunition and jump clones to be neutral. You sell one alliance 15 dreads and give the intel to another alliance so that they buy 16. ISS are out to make money by profiting from the wars they help to create. Economic imbalance creates war and ISS profit from war. Don't believe the ISS propaganda that it is actually possible to be neutral in this game. In response to the claim that they're providing access to 0.0 for many players that might well be true, but if you actually go and talk to new pilots they don't enter low sec and 0.0 because of fear, not because of a lack of station access.
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.17 02:29:00 - [51] Originally by: marcouk2 Originally by: Lunamariea Hawke "The most common time we saw ISS in ec was in haulers when we were camping the gate." Probably because ISS are mostly industrial corps. Originally by: Butter Dog Indeed ISS often camped the Torr/EC gate with D2/IRON before the standings change. Yeah haulers and barges make really good ships for camping. Actually, the Covetor has quite a high sensor resolution.. Couple of Sensor boosters and a 20k might do wonders for a JIP camp. 2 Sig amps in lows, woei! - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.10.17 02:31:00 - [52] Originally by: Devian 666 ISS claim neutrality but I do not regard supplying enemies with ships, mods, ammunition and jump clones to be neutral. You sell one alliance 15 dreads and give the intel to another alliance so that they buy 16. ISS are out to make money by profiting from the wars they help to create. Economic imbalance creates war and ISS profit from war. Don't believe the ISS propaganda that it is actually possible to be neutral in this game. In response to the claim that they're providing access to 0.0 for many players that might well be true, but if you actually go and talk to new pilots they don't enter low sec and 0.0 because of fear, not because of a lack of station access. Troll =/
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.17 03:00:00 - [53] Delicious Sweet Potato Pie Recipe To make a potato pie, you need: 4 large potatoes 2 cups sugar 1 stick butter 1 pinch cinnamon 1 pinch nutmeg 1 store-bought pie crust or your can just line a pan with vanilla wafers instead 1/2 cup milk Boil the potatoes until tender. When you stick a fork in them it should go in easy but you don't want them to fall apart. Let the potatoes cool and then peel them. Put the potatoes in a large mixing bowl and mash them thoroughly with a potatoe masher. Melt the butter and pour it and the other ingredients in the bowl of potatoes. Stir until well mixed. Whether you used a ready made pie crust or just cookies, pour the potatoes mixture into the crust. Put into an oven preheated to 375 degrees. Cook for about 35-40 minutes or until a toothpick inserted in the center comes out dry. Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
Maverick McDougel Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.17 03:05:00 - [54] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Originally by: marcouk2 Originally by: Lunamariea Hawke "The most common time we saw ISS in ec was in haulers when we were camping the gate." Probably because ISS are mostly industrial corps. Originally by: Butter Dog Indeed ISS often camped the Torr/EC gate with D2/IRON before the standings change. Yeah haulers and barges make really good ships for camping. Actually, the Covetor has quite a high sensor resolution.. Couple of Sensor boosters and a 20k might do wonders for a JIP camp. 2 Sig amps in lows, woei! they do get a nice scan resolution plus they would be nasty with 5 fighters assigned to them for gate camps. hmmm givses me an idea for next time i get bored. on another note the hulk gets instalock for anything less than 25km but it is a little expensive to use for gate camps, though that does bring to mind a few of my corp members who would try it if they had the chance. support BattleClinic buy gtc's from BattleClinic
Altar Mei Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.17 03:06:00 - [55] Funny, perhaps ISS was that last bit of red in Risk for D2. Nap or die!
Azeroth Uluntil Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 03:48:00 - [56] Actually, it is quite possible to be neutral in this game. You have to live in empire though. 0.0 neutrality is and will always be a myth until everyone stops operating under NBSI policy, which I can say with absolute certainty, will never happen. Also note that this change of standings is due to member of ISS/ISSN working with entities hostile to D2 and IRON. The chat log that SorAlba posted makes him look like a moron while making the pilot in question look like he may be breaching protocol.
Azeroth Uluntil Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 03:49:00 - [57] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Delicious Sweet Potato Pie Recipe To make a potato pie, you need: 4 large potatoes 2 cups sugar 1 stick butter 1 pinch cinnamon 1 pinch nutmeg 1 store-bought pie crust or your can just line a pan with vanilla wafers instead 1/2 cup milk Boil the potatoes until tender. When you stick a fork in them it should go in easy but you don't want them to fall apart. Let the potatoes cool and then peel them. Put the potatoes in a large mixing bowl and mash them thoroughly with a potatoe masher. Melt the butter and pour it and the other ingredients in the bowl of potatoes. Stir until well mixed. Whether you used a ready made pie crust or just cookies, pour the potatoes mixture into the crust. Put into an oven preheated to 375 degrees. Cook for about 35-40 minutes or until a toothpick inserted in the center comes out dry. Thanks FowlPlayChiken, I might actually try this later on tonight. :-) Looks like it might either turn out really well, or blow up in my face. :-) I hope for the latter tbh. :D
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.17 03:55:00 - [58] spreads hands BOOOOM Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
Shaala Caldari Singularity Services	Posted - 2006.10.17 04:07:00 - [59] Edited by: Shaala on 17/10/2006 04:08:22 To me it seems clearly SoarAlba smacktalked the guy into podding him after being aggressed with words himself. Even though most of the chat was smacktalk from SoarAlba, it doesn¦t change the fact that the ISS guy was ready and willing to remove LV enemy presence from space and admitting a 'military support in exchange for space' deal between LV and ISS. The conflict will not end prior to all not neutral behaving corps being removed from ISS I guess. The only neutral corp in EVE is probably mine :P
JINX HSC Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.17 04:15:00 - [60] its about time soneone kicks ISS in the ASS... - KLADDKAKA - Trig read the rulez m8!!!
Devian 666	Posted - 2006.10.17 04:27:00 - [61] Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Devian 666 ISS claim neutrality but I do not regard supplying enemies with ships, mods, ammunition and jump clones to be neutral. You sell one alliance 15 dreads and give the intel to another alliance so that they buy 16. ISS are out to make money by profiting from the wars they help to create. Economic imbalance creates war and ISS profit from war. Don't believe the ISS propaganda that it is actually possible to be neutral in this game. In response to the claim that they're providing access to 0.0 for many players that might well be true, but if you actually go and talk to new pilots they don't enter low sec and 0.0 because of fear, not because of a lack of station access. Troll =/ No, I'm afraid I'm not trolling. Every ISS hauler shot down has contained weapons, ammo, ships or mods, ummm except that one with pos fuel. They continue to make money at the expense of their "friends". I don't like D2D but I support any military action against ISS.
Dragerest Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 04:28:00 - [62] and going into deep D2 space in shuttles servers what? and when asked about it the ISS guy goes "just taking a road trip" i for one am glad ISS is -10. killed and podded a few d2 and than say "opps sorry" well now ISS is -10....opps sorry. and yes ISS member have scouted out D2 fleets. i was in local for such a wonderful act. some merc corps will get money now, as one ISS guy said "we don't fight we'll get someone to do that for us." nice... so lets have some nice fights than ISS please bring something other than t1 ________________________________________________________ For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
Dragerest Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 04:29:00 - [63] Originally by: Devian 666 Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Devian 666 ISS claim neutrality but I do not regard supplying enemies with ships, mods, ammunition and jump clones to be neutral. You sell one alliance 15 dreads and give the intel to another alliance so that they buy 16. ISS are out to make money by profiting from the wars they help to create. Economic imbalance creates war and ISS profit from war. Don't believe the ISS propaganda that it is actually possible to be neutral in this game. In response to the claim that they're providing access to 0.0 for many players that might well be true, but if you actually go and talk to new pilots they don't enter low sec and 0.0 because of fear, not because of a lack of station access. Troll =/ No, I'm afraid I'm not trolling. Every ISS hauler shot down has contained weapons, ammo, ships or mods, ummm except that one with pos fuel. They continue to make money at the expense of their "friends". I don't like D2D but I support any military action against ISS. die alt ________________________________________________________ For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
BiONetworks Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 04:29:00 - [64] Well see you on the battlefield ISS, hope you brought the tinfoil hats
Azeroth Uluntil Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 04:53:00 - [65] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken spreads hands BOOOOM It happened the last time I tried to cook anything. Ended up all over the walls and my face. Really wish I would've taken pictures... Originally by: Dragerest and going into deep D2 space in shuttles servers what? and when asked about it the ISS guy goes "just taking a road trip" i for one am glad ISS is -10. killed and podded a few d2 and than say "opps sorry" well now ISS is -10....opps sorry. and yes ISS member have scouted out D2 fleets. i was in local for such a wonderful act. some merc corps will get money now, as one ISS guy said "we don't fight we'll get someone to do that for us." nice... so lets have some nice fights than ISS please bring something other than t1 Points to Mercenary Coalition Cmon! Hire em! HIRE EM :D
Lavintol Immortalis Silens Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.10.17 05:03:00 - [66] Edited by: Lavintol on 17/10/2006 05:03:27 Heh, millitary support is not the only thing ISS provides LV from C3-. As a former resident, I can definitivly(sp?) state, ISS charges any ISS corp operating there 15m isk per member per week to live there. And that money they claim, goes to LV. Last I checked, the ore gained as refining tax goes to LV as well. Thats on top of the monthly membership fees. Conidering when I was there, that translated into a few bil a week going to LV...no telling what it is now.
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 05:29:00 - [67] I'm just a grunt so my understanding is limited. But I understand that ISS pilots have been scouting and warning hostile pilots. Seems to me that's reason enough to no longer consider them a neutral party.
Torshin Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 05:33:00 - [68] No offense if you can't bring any more evidence to the table about scouting and all this crap stop posting about it. The corps that did the scouting and or members have already been kicked from ISS. Taking off the tin foil hat, if yall only KOS for the duration of the Southern campagin and complain about us being poor pvp targets and using T1 then stop patrolling PB in your gank squads and camping gates left and right. I think these small incedents are being blown outta proportion just so D2 has someone to kill to make their killboards look pretty. Krin - forget the rest.
Taralesk Inshani Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 05:48:00 - [69] Originally by: Torshin No offense if you can't bring any more evidence to the table about scouting and all this crap stop posting about it Hold on, let me gather a bunch of logs for your amusement. Hell, we're under no requirement to even justify it. I think your green grass chicken pond feathers in the deli barked too loud, -10! Like that reason better? Beyond that, I'm sure your lead has requested and received all relevant information - ask them. Usual I don't rep lalala.. . Originally by: Ashen Brarn Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
Feterous Jolin Transcendency	Posted - 2006.10.17 05:52:00 - [70] It's really only a matter of time before someone tries to take one of the ISS outposts. One way or the other, good luck and happy hunting. -- Feterous Jolin (CEO)
Mar Drakar LDK Process of Elimination	Posted - 2006.10.17 06:05:00 - [71] gee... seems that northern nappers club got really bored and now they gonna shoot those ebil piwates... er iss... why dont you sign a nap for a change... oh thats what you do daily.. er... then go sign a nap ? ... omg again... for some reason I start to want give ISS a hand on this northern nappers club matter. -- Make your life worth dying. CEO LDK
Niranen Einar Loot	Posted - 2006.10.17 06:15:00 - [72] Can't say I'm dissapointed. The ISS crossed the line enough times, it's about time someome took the time to put them in their place. Good hunting Bored? Check out... LOOT's In-Game Site
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 06:22:00 - [73] Originally by: Mar Drakar gee... seems that northern nappers club got really bored and now they gonna shoot those ebil piwates... er iss... why dont you sign a nap for a change... oh thats what you do daily.. er... then go sign a nap ? ... omg again... for some reason I start to want give ISS a hand on this northern nappers club matter. You should do that. Couldn't hurt. "What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien".
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.17 06:26:00 - [74] Originally by: Mar Drakar why dont you sign a nap for a change... oh thats what you do daily.. er... then go sign a nap ? ... omg again... Yawn dude. We're on a roadtrip down south. And I see no friggin blues anywhere. Just because we managed to clear out space for ourselves and our allies in one swoop doesn't mean we have more naps than anyone else. Tell me what significant nap is new around the north from D2/IRON/RAWR/RZR/CDC perspective... We've all been napped for pretty much the whole year. All I hear is corps like yours whining because you can't get into the club because we are not looking at accepting willy nilly. And that makes you bitter and coming here whining about a napclub on forums lol.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.17 06:37:00 - [75] Edited by: Graalum on 17/10/2006 06:38:31 Originally by: Fred0 Originally by: Mar Drakar why dont you sign a nap for a change... oh thats what you do daily.. er... then go sign a nap ? ... omg again... Yawn dude. We're on a roadtrip down south. And I see no friggin blues anywhere. Just because we managed to clear out space for ourselves and our allies in one swoop doesn't mean we have more naps than anyone else. Tell me what significant nap is new around the north from D2/IRON/RAWR/RZR/CDC perspective... We've all been napped for pretty much the whole year. All I hear is corps like yours whining because you can't get into the club because we are not looking at accepting willy nilly. And that makes you bitter and coming here whining about a napclub on forums lol. Didn't pure move in to vale? Last i checked they were napped with at least cdc and most likely e-u.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 07:26:00 - [76] Originally by: Fred0 snip All I hear is corps like yours whining because you can't get into the club because we are not looking at accepting willy nilly. And that makes you bitter and coming here whining about a napclub on forums lol. The first rule of NapClub is - you do not talk about NapClub. The second rule of NapClub is - you DO NOT talk about NapClub. Third rule of NapClub, someone gets podded, the fight is over. Fourth rule, only enough pilots to crash a node, to a fight. Fifth rule, one gank at a time, fellas. Sixth rule, no stabs, no logoffski. Seventh rule, fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at NapClub, you have to fight.
Sypher313 VentureCorp CORE.	Posted - 2006.10.17 07:45:00 - [77] lol DIE ISS. see you out there in some form or "other" sounds like maybe some fun! and ISS using the "NAP" weapon to slander Northern enities is kinda "Ironic" innit, how many NAPS ISS have? yeah ok riiiight, stop whining already. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.17 07:46:00 - [78] Originally by: BiONetworks Well see you on the battlefield ISS, hope you brought the tinfoil hats Note : Tinfoil hats are available for sale in all BoB owned stations. Buy yours today ! .... Real men use blasters
Esaam DeVries Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 08:20:00 - [79] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Note : Tinfoil hats are available for sale in all BoB owned stations. Buy yours today ! It's a trap !!! -- TRUST Shop : from T2 to Captital ship(yard)s. Shop smart, shop T-shop.
Scarlet Pimpernel Clan Eshin	Posted - 2006.10.17 08:37:00 - [80] Edited by: Scarlet Pimpernel on 17/10/2006 08:37:32 Whats great about this thread is we have lots of D2 and their lapdogs screaming 'ISS control your members' yet, until D2 command post some kind of official statement, its just as likely that these posters are also 'out of control' Whats even better is that its pretty obvious from these posts that the entities that previously had ISS set to positive [have members that] dislike ISS/what ISS stand for etc etc for some time already so it comes as no surprise that, what seems to have started out as a [justified] standings change by D2 for operations in ths south has turn into a D2 & lapdog bandwagon for ganking ISS in the North Would appear that ISS controling its members is just one small factor in this whole mess. Makes you respect the pirates much more because at least their behaviour is consistent , just goes to show who you friends are[n't]/were[n't]
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 08:43:00 - [81] Edited by: Gyro DuAquin1 on 17/10/2006 08:45:40 so where is the problem here, we are having a trip down south, iss pilots report our camps, fleets and whatnot to the local alliances, while flying through the fleets without any danger, but with a big smile on there face. This ends now, and i dont think we are realy thinking about taking any iss station, yet. So everyone calm down, and lets njoy ourself on the server. Quote: Makes you respect the pirates much more because at least their behaviour is consistent Laughing, just goes to show who you friends are[n't]/were[n't] ISS wasnt too much of intrest, it became intresting as iss pilots started down south to give intel to hostile alliance, while they could have easily just flew through and njoy their neutral standing towards anyone.
Devian 666 Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.10.17 08:54:00 - [82] Originally by: Dragerest die alt Meh. It seems quite clear that ISS have a significant foothold in both the north and the south. I don't see how they can continue to claim to be neutral when they provide infrastructure to your enemies to support their ops in 0.0 That's not being neutral.
Hani EQ Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.17 09:45:00 - [83] Originally by: SaorAlba Keep in mind these two things and then read the original lokal chat log below of the so called "forced incident. 1. ISS officially say they claim no space. 2. We had ISS deep blue at the time of the incident. --------------------------------------------------------------- Channel ID: (('solarsystemid2', 30002586),) Channel Name: Local Listener: SaorAlba Session started: 2006.10.15 07:37:26 --------------------------------------------------------------- [ 2006.10.15 07:44:38 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 4OIV-X Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:45:49 ] EVE System > Channel changed to TM-0P2 Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:46:55 ] EVE System > Channel changed to N-CREL Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:48:44 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 3-UCBF Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:49:50 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 1-7KWU Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:51:01 ] EVE System > Channel changed to H-HWQR Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:52:14 ] EVE System > Channel changed to D-9UEV Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:53:18 ] EVE System > Channel changed to RH0-EG Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:54:31 ] EVE System > Channel changed to 4-P4FE Local Channel [ 2006.10.15 07:54:55 ] Kithaca > you are entering restricted territory. [ 2006.10.15 07:55:04 ] SaorAlba > **** of fool [ 2006.10.15 07:55:39 ] SaorAlba > there is no iss teritory and don't make me mad [ 2006.10.15 07:56:11 ] Kithaca > you have been warned, and are marked KoS. [ 2006.10.15 07:56:18 ] SaorAlba > hahah [ 2006.10.15 07:56:23 ] Kithaca > this is not ISS territoriy, this is LV territory. [ 2006.10.15 07:56:38 ] SaorAlba > you are iss [ 2006.10.15 07:56:53 ] SaorAlba > are you a lapdancer of lv? [ 2006.10.15 07:57:16 ] SaorAlba > keep out of allaince policy or it drag you in to it [ 2006.10.15 07:57:29 ] Kithaca > i don't make the policy. [ 2006.10.15 07:57:32 ] Kithaca > i enforce it. [ 2006.10.15 07:57:37 ] SaorAlba > why don't you come to the gate and pod me? [ 2006.10.15 07:57:37 ] Kithaca > last chance. get out. [ 2006.10.15 07:58:05 ] SaorAlba > 3l3n gate m6 [ 2006.10.15 07:58:21 ] SaorAlba > come over and do me a favour [ 2006.10.15 07:58:27 ] SaorAlba > morron [ 2006.10.15 07:59:40 ] SaorAlba > come on [ 2006.10.15 07:59:50 ] SaorAlba > check scanner see pod [ 2006.10.15 07:59:55 ] Kithaca > i'm boarding my ship, dont' get your panties in a knot. [ 2006.10.15 07:59:56 ] SaorAlba > kill pod [ 2006.10.15 08:00:06 ] SaorAlba > and do us all a favour [ 2006.10.15 08:00:53 ] SaorAlba > what's keepin you? [ 2006.10.15 08:01:05 ] SaorAlba > I ma still in restricted space [ 2006.10.15 08:01:10 ] SaorAlba > I refuse to go [ 2006.10.15 08:01:18 ] SaorAlba > now kill me [ 2006.10.15 08:01:37 ] SaorAlba > 3lcn [ 2006.10.15 08:02:24 ] SaorAlba > Anotherfool with a wide mouth and no balls [ 2006.10.15 08:02:56 ] Elisa Day > Is it your wish to die horribly? [ 2006.10.15 08:03:17 ] SaorAlba > do it m8 [ 2006.10.15 08:03:28 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Agil Local Channel --------------------------------------------------------------- Judge for your self my audience. Does D2 not have every right to set ISS at -10? From a Third Party point of view. I don't see how this convo assists you. The ISS guy RoS'd you in a profressional manner under the policies/orders he's working under.. You then continued to provokatively antagonise him until he responded in kind. I think you come out looking like a smarktard and him more of a professional enforcing his orders. So how does this show d2- has every right to set ISS to -10? Hani EQ - IT
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 09:52:00 - [84] Originally by: Metal Dude Originally by: Butter Dog ... I'm biased because I like ISS and what they stand for. Its unique. Who are you kidding, bitter dog. Why would you be in an ISS thread when there's a perfectly good BoB thread going? Maybe because , em, you are an ISS alt? Kind of bad deal for your mains allince ticking off D2. It's nice to be all neutral when you can flame people from behind an alt. Too bad for ISS. Too bad one idiot can ruin it for the rest. lol @ you Seriously, you just have to look at my corp history to see I used to be in ISS. I like the people there, ISS management is mature and focused. Any of the hundreds of people who have spoken with me on vent/ts will vouch that I am not an alt. Though I do have other characters, but BD is the main character on this account.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 09:59:00 - [85] Originally by: Liet Traep I'm just a grunt so my understanding is limited. But I understand that ISS pilots have been scouting and warning hostile pilots. Seems to me that's reason enough to no longer consider them a neutral party. Well, anyone who speaks with ISS management will understand how genuine they are in their desire to be neutral. There is no plot, no conspiracy. HOWEVER, and its a big 'however', because of the open nature of ISS, its pretty easy to get alt spies into the alliance. It is the actions of these few individuals on which you are judging the alliance. You are entitled to do this, but it is not ISS you are judging, it is alt spies. You could argue they should change membership criterea to make it tougher for corps to join, but that would go against what ISS is all about - opening up underused areas of 0.0 like Pure Blind and Providence to new corps who otherwise would not have 0.0 access. I guess you either believe in what ISS is trying to achieve, and respect them for being unique in this game, or you don't. If you don't, you'll look for a reason to justify shooting them, and it won't be hard to find because of all the paranoid consipiracy theories out there. ISS are a 90% industrial alliance who will be no match for d2 and friends militarily, but if you want some easy ganks, I guess you're about to get them.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 10:01:00 - [86] Originally by: Feterous Jolin It's really only a matter of time before someone tries to take one of the ISS outposts. One way or the other, good luck and happy hunting. None of them have any worth other than a neutral trade hub.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.17 10:03:00 - [87] Kill em all d2. Let the god sort bitter dog's alts out. Sig is not eve related Eve related? Copyright of ISD?
Mar Drakar LDK Process of Elimination	Posted - 2006.10.17 10:05:00 - [88] Originally by: Fred0 Originally by: Mar Drakar why dont you sign a nap for a change... oh thats what you do daily.. er... then go sign a nap ? ... omg again... Yawn dude. We're on a roadtrip down south. And I see no friggin blues anywhere. Just because we managed to clear out space for ourselves and our allies in one swoop doesn't mean we have more naps than anyone else. Tell me what significant nap is new around the north from D2/IRON/RAWR/RZR/CDC perspective... We've all been napped for pretty much the whole year. All I hear is corps like yours whining because you can't get into the club because we are not looking at accepting willy nilly. And that makes you bitter and coming here whining about a napclub on forums lol. well afaik there was an invitation to join the napclub but screw that we said and we didn't. And who is bitter? not me for sure. Corps like me? name at least one corp like me who would WANT to join... and insignificant nap you say? ... can we sign one? we just shoot ya up insignificantly and we can all be in one club -- Make your life worth dying. CEO LDK
Ricarda M Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 10:13:00 - [89] smack,smack Please ensure your signature is 24,000 bytes or less - Udat http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4706/rickopie1ol.jpg
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 10:15:00 - [90] Originally by: Ricarda M smack,smack generic questioning of credentials and inference of blame
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 10:48:00 - [91] Originally by: James Lyrus Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/10/2006 10:16:37 Originally by: Ricarda M smack,smack witty and well thought out retort accusation of BoB/MC/ASCN/LV (delete as applicable) alt-ness, and suggestion for the need of tinfoil in large quantities for millinery purposes Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Celine de'Fursac Amarr Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:06:00 - [92] Originally by: Scarlet Pimpernel Edited by: Scarlet Pimpernel on 17/10/2006 08:37:32 Whats great about this thread is we have lots of D2 and their lapdogs screaming 'ISS control your members' yet, until D2 command post some kind of official statement, its just as likely that these posters are also 'out of control' Whats even better is that its pretty obvious from these posts that the entities that previously had ISS set to positive [have members that] dislike ISS/what ISS stand for etc etc for some time already so it comes as no surprise that, what seems to have started out as a [justified] standings change by D2 for operations in ths south has turn into a D2 & lapdog bandwagon for ganking ISS in the North Would appear that ISS controling its members is just one small factor in this whole mess. Makes you respect the pirates much more because at least their behaviour is consistent , just goes to show who you friends are[n't]/were[n't] And you would be who?
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:28:00 - [93] Originally by: Alex Tremayne Originally by: James Lyrus Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/10/2006 10:16:37 Originally by: Ricarda M smack,smack witty and well thought out retort accusation of BoB/MC/ASCN/LV (delete as applicable) alt-ness, and suggestion for the need of tinfoil in large quantities for millinery purposes Random statement about llama's
DANGEROUS Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:31:00 - [94] OMFG - we are -10 to ISS - - I AM COMING BACK TO THE GAME TONIGHT YEA YEA YEA
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:34:00 - [95] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Alex Tremayne Originally by: James Lyrus Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/10/2006 10:16:37 Originally by: Ricarda M smack,smack witty and well thought out retort accusation of BoB/MC/ASCN/LV (delete as applicable) alt-ness, and suggestion for the need of tinfoil in large quantities for millinery purposes Random statement about llama's questioning of motives and query relevance of large camelid quadradpeds, including insinuation of species proclivity
Deviana Sevidon Gallente easyCredits O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:34:00 - [96] Quote: D2 and Iron and Co. have set ISS to -10 and are in the process of camping attacking Marginis/Borealis. From various channels i gather that an incident down south has been used by D2 as an excuse for this, history shows from NFC, sparta and others that this is the normal D2 way of using/triggering a small matter to aid removing things that do not suit them. In fact there is no excuse needed to set ISS to -10. What I really want to know and what the ISS did not yet explain is why one of their member Corps is gatecamping and ganking with RISK in EC-P8R at the Torrinos-Gate. And why the same ISS corp is seen in territories they have no reason to be in, putting up a large, heavy armed POS. Others were marked KoS for even less. Maybe it is not machination of the ISS-Leadership planning an Invasion while they are still set to blue, but in the very least, they should take closer look at some of their member corps.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:40:00 - [97] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon What I really want to know and what the ISS did not yet explain is why one of their member Corps is gatecamping and ganking with RISK in EC-P8R at the Torrinos-Gate. Hang on, isn't there a post moaning about how the EC-P8R/Torrinos gate _isn't_ being secured properly elsewhere in this thread? Quote: And why the same ISS corp is seen in territories they have no reason to be in, putting up a large, heavy armed POS. And ... surely if there's some problem with an ISS corp, it's an idea to refer it to those running the show to deal with? It's not like alliances don't have pilots who do what they shouldn't occasionally, through ignorance or malice. Quote: Maybe it is not machination of the ISS-Leadership planning an Invasion while they are still set to blue, but in the very least, they should take closer look at some of their member corps. Conspiracy theory aside, seriously, has this particular concern been raised with the ISS management? Or has there just been an assumption that someone will notice a POS in a system where the well behaved fraction of the ISS won't have been?
boo3916 Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:41:00 - [98] hope someone takes over the outpost in ec cos iss wont let us dock for some reason then again probability of new owners letting us dock are also slim too
NOObbody Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:48:00 - [99] Originally by: DANGEROUS OMFG - we are -10 to ISS - - I AM COMING BACK TO THE GAME TONIGHT YEA YEA YEA All... is lost
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:55:00 - [100] politics are such fascinating things, anyways let me get this straight.... ISS Rents space for LV - no problem there ISS are NAP'd with LV - that Non aggressive pact not ally, no problem there. ISS sign a deal that stipulates they must protect the LV space they are renting from pilots hostile to LV - problem here!! Erm didnt anyone in ISS high command not realise the implications this could have, the simple fact they agreed to something like this states from a neutral alliance is somewhat absurd! "ISS renting space near you, shooting our friends near you" Sorry i do respect the intentions ISS have or initially had and what they have achieved ,just lately i have lost alot of respect for the ISS (navy aside)
Zylatis AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:56:00 - [101] Ah gotta love politics. thats what makes eve great, even if you wont admit it. it makes it more real. but not quite real enough for us to care if we kill the fluffy defenceless kittens that live in PB. I for one respect the general ISS...thing of lots of 'neutral' people pretty much everywhere, cool idea. really it is. But nobody can be completely neutral. the whole 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' works the other way too. whilst i appriciate that ISS, trying to be neutral, has probably let through who were red to us, they wouldnt be neutral if they didnt, but this is something that cannot be allowed. You cannot stand idly by, industrial power or not, and be an open door for hostiles and call yourself a 'friend' or have a 'relationship' that has any kind of credibility. Wether its D2 and co being greedy or time for a bit of culling i dont know and being yet another humble grunt i dont care, ill kill em all the same. that being said ISS has done something unique in eve and thus something great, and so will be remembered long after they are gone. but they will be gone. Damn share prices **** me off too... [Anything said above is probably crap and doesnt reflect ..ah hell you know the deal]
Deviana Sevidon Gallente easyCredits O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:01:00 - [102] Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 17/10/2006 12:02:21 James, I am not moaning about the general situation in EC-P8R. It has always been a chokepoint and everyone who lived some time in 0.0 knows how to live with it or deal with the matter. But it is one thing not having the forces to secure the gate and something else, activily camping with pilots from RISK. I am refering to a corp named AirHawk Alliance and a few of their members, who were also seen in Fade and have a direct a connection to the POS I mentioned before.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:04:00 - [103] ISS not 100% neutral everywhere ? Why am I not surprised ? Think it's common knowledge that ISS usually try to keep mainly a good relation with the local big alliances around their outposts. In LV space it will be LV of course. It's not really new that ISS don't/can't allow foreigners to attack local friends around an ISS outpost or even let them dock. It has already been like this with their first outpost. Not that I care much, if you like to go to war against ISS, have fun, but their policy and that they can't stay out of everything and be neutral at any time is really no surprise at all. Having a break from EVE until my broadband connection is working again.
SaorAlba Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:12:00 - [104] From a Third Party point of view. I don't see how this convo assists you. The ISS guy RoS'd you in a profressional manner under the policies/orders he's working under.. You then continued to provokatively antagonise him until he responded in kind. I think you come out looking like a smarktard and him more of a professional enforcing his orders. So how does this show d2- has every right to set ISS to -10? Simple to answer my friend. ISS is actively defending LV space (lokal shows sovereignity to LV) and is enforcing the law for them. Well this doesn't make ISS very neutral does it eh? On top of this I am in a killer pod being barked at for tresspasing. I did warn him not to stick his nose in political busniss but he ignored it. I also asked him not to make me mad but he still did so I am excused about being a little rude, sorry for that, ok? ISS navvy then podded me back to Agil while I am as as blue as you can get in this game to another. ISS was not immediatly put back to -10. They were asked by high officials to explain what had happend in their pov but failed in the attempt.
Lilan Kahn Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:12:00 - [105] Originally by: Khajit Smitty politics are such fascinating things, anyways let me get this straight.... ISS Rents space for LV - no problem there ISS are NAP'd with LV - that Non aggressive pact not ally, no problem there. ISS sign a deal that stipulates they must protect the LV space they are renting from pilots hostile to LV - problem here!! Erm didnt anyone in ISS high command not realise the implications this could have, the simple fact they agreed to something like this states from a neutral alliance is somewhat absurd! "ISS renting space near you, shooting our friends near you" Sorry i do respect the intentions ISS have or initially had and what they have achieved ,just lately i have lost alot of respect for the ISS (navy aside) If you realy where our "frind" you woud leave when asked too. Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Crovan Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:37:00 - [106] Originally by: Khajit Smitty ISS sign a deal that stipulates they must protect the LV space they are renting from pilots hostile to LV - problem here!! Erm didnt anyone in ISS high command not realise the implications this could have, the simple fact they agreed to something like this states from a neutral alliance is somewhat absurd! "ISS renting space near you, shooting our friends near you" Sorry i do respect the intentions ISS have or initially had and what they have achieved ,just lately i have lost alot of respect for the ISS (navy aside) You've read the agreement, have you? And know ISS RoE's, do you? Well, lucky for us all, I know both of these things (unless both have recently significantly changed). Fact is that the agreement states that everyone is to stay out of there except for LV and ISS. When I was in ISS, we had more than one instance where someone in an LV pet corp/alliance would set up a regional buy order in Tenerifis, or would simply somehow buy something in the ISS station. They would show up, couldn't dock, and then got all **y. They were usually asked to fly to Marginis, then escrow the gear to someone who could hand it to them, or something along those lines. Also, ISS RoE are pretty strict. However, someone blatantly refusing to leave space that ISS is to keep everyone out of (and has asked you to get out of) is pretty silly. The pilot who got shot tried to play the "lol I know t3h ISS polissee!" card, and got sent to a cloning bay for his trouble when he refused the repeated request to leave. Could the ISS pilot have been less abrasive in the request? Yes. Should he have? Probably. Does that forgive the returned wang-waving? No. Upgrade your clone and move on with life. Btw, welcome to Catch, D2. It's a freakin' mad house in here Originally by:** Seleene Client - "You smash them." MC - "Ooooh! Good! Like to smash!"
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:37:00 - [107] God damn, I state to my alliance that I am taking 'time out' to deal with work, and they go and declare war on one of our neighbours! Anyway, my 2ISK on this matter. As usual, this is just an observation from this thread and past experience, and in no way related to the views of my corp, alliace, or the HANSO foundation. It appears to me that ISS are in a "what goes around, comes around" situation. An ISS representative earlier stated that they cannot police EC-P8R (or indeed the systems surrounding their other outpost in Pure Blind) due to them being a neutral entity with limited powers. Yet from the words of my corpmates, and our close brothers in D2, the ISS alliance is doing just that in the south; policing the area saying who can and who can't enter the region. Whether this policing is in some way related to LV allowing their presence in the region, we don't know, as there has been no official word; however one would like to assume that ISS is open in its policies. On top of this, it appears that ISS are giving intel on our positions to our enemies. Whilst people comment that "we've been blue to ISS and held gatecamps with them in EC-P8R", we have simply not shot at their haulers making their way to and from empire. Let us not forget that ISS was placed in charge of the EC-P8R outpost, as it's previous owner the TRUST alliance was deemed 'too political' and so was removed fom the system by BoB and allies. Is it simply now that ISS themselves have become too political? I feel that ISS is not providing the security in Pure Blind that it offers to alliances in the south. We have such terrorists as D00M, YNC, and other running riot in the systems surrounding both ISS outposts; yet they do nothing to ensure the safety of pilots trying to reach their stations. I hear that the ISS Navy cannot even remove a D00M POS that is anchored by one of the moons in EC-P8R. To sound all SirMolle/CYVOK on you... "The pendulum has spent far to long in ISS' favour. It is time for that pendulum to head back towards equlibrium. Tick Tock." What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
EzSnake Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:44:00 - [108] It's always good to see two -10's going after each other... Wish D2 best of luck, and don't stop comin to Immensia during this campaign... You D2 lots always put on a good fight and bring a new setup to counter each time...very fun battles
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:11:00 - [109] Edited by: Audrea on 17/10/2006 13:12:19 Originally by: Crovan Originally by: Khajit Smitty ISS sign a deal that stipulates they must protect the LV space they are renting from pilots hostile to LV - problem here!! Erm didnt anyone in ISS high command not realise the implications this could have, the simple fact they agreed to something like this states from a neutral alliance is somewhat absurd! "ISS renting space near you, shooting our friends near you" Sorry i do respect the intentions ISS have or initially had and what they have achieved ,just lately i have lost alot of respect for the ISS (navy aside) You've read the agreement, have you? And know ISS RoE's, do you? Well, lucky for us all, I know both of these things (unless both have recently significantly changed). Fact is that the agreement states that everyone is to stay out of there except for LV and ISS. When I was in ISS, we had more than one instance where someone in an LV pet corp/alliance would set up a regional buy order in Tenerifis, or would simply somehow buy something in the ISS station. They would show up, couldn't dock, and then got all ****y. They were usually asked to fly to Marginis, then escrow the gear to someone who could hand it to them, or something along those lines. Also, ISS RoE are pretty strict. However, someone blatantly refusing to leave space that ISS is to keep everyone out of (and has asked you to get out of) is pretty silly. The pilot who got shot tried to play the "lol I know t3h ISS polissee!" card, and got sent to a cloning bay for his trouble when he refused the repeated request to leave. Could the ISS pilot have been less abrasive in the request? Yes. Should he have? Probably. Does that forgive the returned wang-waving? No. Upgrade your clone and move on with life. Btw, welcome to Catch, D2. It's a freakin' mad house in here And what gives ISS the right to kill LV's enemies in LV space, and still claim to be neutral? EDIT: Its same thing as ISS would say IAC cant dock in our outposts to louch a counter attack against MC. ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved!
Kira Knightly Caldari Health and Beauty Spa	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:12:00 - [110] Edited by: Kira Knightly on 17/10/2006 13:14:33 Regional contract Tenerifis Background The Calico project is a refinery outpost set up in C3-0YD. It's financed by LV, and the arrangement is that we provide them with fees and refining tax. It also serves as a proof of concept. We're hoping that once we can demonstrate this model as successful, we will be able to persuade other alliances. There are 70 or so belts in the immeditate vicinity, and an ice belt 3 jumps away. Local ice is Minmatar. One of the systems has mercoxit. (3 belts) the rest have Arkonor, Bistot, Spodumain and Gniess. (And other stuff thats less exciting). Access to this region is NOT automatic. Only ISS corporations who have been granted by the ISS Regional Coordinator, James Lyrus, can enter Tenerifis. Preliminary conditions for entering Tenerifis Your corporation have to go through an evaluation process which takes into account the length of your membership in ISS, your history of observance of the ISS Charter and a number of other things. The ISS Regional Coordinator have the right to refuse entry to Tenerifis without explanation. The background for these rules is that ISS want to ensure the partnership with LV becomes a long and happy one. We will not tolerate æincidentsÆ with pilots who donÆt play by rules. All ænegotiationsÆ from ISS corporations to be granted access to Tenerifis go through the ISS Regional Coordinator and individual corporations may be asked to observed to undisclosed special rules and regulations in order to preserve the peace and stability of the region. Once you have been granted access there are a number of rules and regulations that needs to be observed by all ISS pilots. What we get + The entire northern part of Tenerifis is accessible to ISS, but ISS ships are not allowed 'south' of the X-1QGA system (create map) + Unlimited npc hunting in this area + Unlimited mining in this area (subject to ground rules by the ISS Regional Coordinator) * The refining station in the E-IFSA constellation is managed by ISS, and surrounding the station, within 3 jumps, are 72 asteroid belts with highend ore. It is a very rich area. + Unlimited access to complexes in this area + Unlimited access to moon resources * We can survey and setup starbases everywhere we want in this area * We can claim sovereignty everywhere we want in this area + The refining station: ISS member corporations are also allowed to setup (sovereignty claiming) starbases in the station system for the duration of their stay in Tenerifis. * This allows for starbase factories, labs etc. to be constructed.
Kira Knightly Caldari Health and Beauty Spa	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:16:00 - [111] Terms and conditions + ISS ships are not allowed into regions surrounding Tenerifis. This is to assure that diplomatic incidents will be kept to a minimum. + ISS Regional Coordinator James Lyrus is responsible for fees and docking rights. ONLY James Lyrus or ISS Management act as a go-between with Lotka Volterra (LV) about fees, docking rights, access, diplomacy, and incidents. We want to keep misunderstandings to a minimum. + ISS will pay a weekly fee of 15M Isk pr. pilot per corporation operating in the region (calculated pr. corp, not on a pilot pr pilot basis) * Example: if members of one ISS corporation of 60 members operate in the region, ISS will pay LV 900M each week pilots for this corp to be allowed to operate in Tenerifis * The ISS member corporations transfer fees to the æISS OutpostÆ corporation (CEO: Duchess deGulia) for their pass to Tenerifis for the following week, and this corp then transfers the collective fees to LV. * Corporations with less than 20 members pay a fixed fee of 300M pr week. + Refining: All refining of loot and ore must take place in the outpost refinery. The refining tax there is 10% (may be subject to change). No POS refineries are permitted anywhere in the region. ISS will regularly inspect starbases in the region, and if any refineries are detected, the consequences will be immediate. + Access to the station: ISS is the exclusive channel through which potential LV 'pet' corps are allowed by LV to operate in the E-IFSA constellation. This improves ISS's ability to attract sufficient corporations to the region and reduces LV's administrative burden. + Docking rights: Only ISS corporations who have paid the fees to LV may dock. All LV corporations may dock at any time. + In the interest of regional defense, LV member corporation will always have docking rights to the station. + LV member corporations will not mine in the E-IFSA constellation without prior consent from ISS. This is to ensure that ISS corps have enough roids to make good on their fees. + LV will not establish any POS in the constellation and the neighbouring constellations without prior agreement by the ISS. Living in Tenerifis Belts are allocated to corps. This list is published on this forum. There will be 1 belt per 10 members (rounded down) in the outpost system. Additional allocations will be made as necessary, however it is likely these will be in systems around C3-0YD. Claim jumping may result in a fine, and for repeated offenses additional action may be take. Each corp is entitled to manage 'their' belts how they wish. If you have empirical evidence to confirm (or deny) some of the more common mining myths, then we're keen to hear about it. Corps are required to plonk a secure can at their belt to remind everyone, however it's expected that residents will keep up to date with claimed belts. Any unclaimed belts are general access for 'casual' mining, however we expect local corps to prioritise 'their' belts. At the current time, this includes the Mercoxit belts. If we appear to have difficulty managing this, then we'll review the situation. Ratting is a free for all, with the caveat that if mining is in progress, or someone is already fighting a rat, you ask permission before engaging. It's not uncommon to tank a particular spawn for the duration of a mining op. Security and military + ISS will assume responsability of patrolling the northern part of the region. ISS will pursue and suppress pirate incursions into the region. ISS will keep LV central space command informed of all foreign alliance movements in Tenerifis and as such act as border guards and reconnaissance for LV. + The official channel for the area is called "Calico". If you are operating in the area, then you are required to join it. This is to serve similar purposes as other regional channels, namely sharing of information, intel, and general heckling. + To preserve its neutrality in inter-alliance conflicts, ISS will not participate in joint fleet operations with LV, but ISS Navy and local ISS corporations inhabiting the region will nonetheless assist LV to the best of their ability in the defense of the region in case of invasion by brigand forces. + ISS is responsible for maintaining sovereignty of the system with a militarily credible starbase network. + If someone attempts to assault the station system, LV will respond as per normal procedures in the defense of Tenerifis and dispatch a fleet to defend the station. + All ISS corporations are responsible for their own day to day security in Tenerifis. Transgressions of any one of these, all in all, very simple rules will lead to immediate expulsion from ISS.
Kira Knightly Caldari Health and Beauty Spa	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:18:00 - [112] + ISS will assume responsability of patrolling the northern part of the region. ISS will pursue and suppress pirate incursions into the region. ISS will keep LV central space command informed of all foreign alliance movements in Tenerifis and as such act as border guards and reconnaissance for LV. Transgressions of any one of these, all in all, very simple rules will lead to immediate expulsion from ISS. Did D2 become pirates or are ISS breaking their own contract rules?
Rei Toai Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:26:00 - [113] what some people seem to forget are some rules of diplomacy. ISS wants/needs neutrality to prosper in a quite hostile enviroment, that 0.0 is. so they have certain needs. on the other hands are entities that not necessarily need something from ISS - it's more like a luxury than like something substantial. yeah - it's definitly not a disadvantage to have ISS on blue (and the other way round) - but it's as i said a bit of a luxus. now it seems there were some incidents - if ISS now thinks that those incidents are only minor mistakes of single members or corps doesn't matter. ISS has to enforce their rules on their corps BEFORE such "accidents" happen - remember ISS needs the good standings to the major entities. in the moment those major entities see that ISS is not able to enforce such rules, they don't have any reason NOT to reset their standings - remember ISS is in someways a luxury - and who wants someone close to them that is a chaotic bunch which can cause some security issues (for example spies) those major entities don't need ISS to survive in 0.0 .. but ISS needs them to do so. it all boils down to: don't make those people angry you depend on. __________________________________ I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:27:00 - [114] Yay for forum copy and paste.
grizouh Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:29:00 - [115] Originally by: Kira Knightly + ISS will assume responsability of patrolling the northern part of the region. ISS will pursue and suppress pirate incursions into the region. ISS will keep LV central space command informed of all foreign alliance movements in Tenerifis and as such act as border guards and reconnaissance for LV. Transgressions of any one of these, all in all, very simple rules will lead to immediate expulsion from ISS. Did D2 become pirates or are ISS breaking their own contract rules? I always knew kalok (soaralba) is a pirate at heart seriously, with a contract like stated above you can not maintain neutrality...
Crovan Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:32:00 - [116] Originally by: Audrea And what gives ISS the right to kill LV's enemies in LV space, and still claim to be neutral? EDIT: Its same thing as ISS would say IAC cant dock in our outposts to louch a counter attack against MC. ZOMG ISS isn't neutral! lollercopters! Well, someone posted the text of the agreement. At least I that looks like what I remember having as the agreement. Fact is that not even all of ISS is allowed in there. The standard procedure is, unless the person presents an imminent threat, is to inform them that the space is restricted, and ask them to leave. If they refuse, then they could be interpreted as presenting an imminent threat. As to your edited comment, I don't get it. It's actually nothing at all like that. That conversation was threads ago. Marginis, Tycho, etc. are open to everyone who isn't going to cause trouble for trade or shoot at ISS. Calico is completely closed off, even to some ISS. Is that not allowed? Is a neutral entity not allowed to have an agreement to gain access space under reasonable terms? The ISS neutrality argument is always such fun. Originally by: Seleene Client - "You smash them." MC - "Ooooh! Good! Like to smash!"
Kay Han Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:32:00 - [117] Originally by: Kira Knightly snip This is priceless. just another reason why ISS must Die. all this 'we are neutral, don¦t shot us' bull**** all the time... LOL ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:35:00 - [118] is that cream filling I detect? :-d bawk Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
Amadeus Brasky True Prominence	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:41:00 - [119] Just a side note, Is this the reason why D2 was camping the empire gate in Kerberz to Catch last night? Just curious. Cheers.
Hans Rex Gallente Federation of Traders and Miners	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:44:00 - [120] D2 Pirates? Lets see camping the Esa pipe, popping haulers. Camping the HED pipe, popping haulers. Roaming through Catch, popping haulers. Sounds like pirates to me. I've been podded in a hauler several times by D2. Now I know as a one man trader corp, I present a major threat to the mighty D2. Why are they gate camping in Providence anyway? Simple pirates running around the South, spouting off.
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:52:00 - [121] Originally by: Crovan Originally by: Audrea And what gives ISS the right to kill LV's enemies in LV space, and still claim to be neutral? EDIT: Its same thing as ISS would say IAC cant dock in our outposts to louch a counter attack against MC. ZOMG ISS isn't neutral! lollercopters! Well, someone posted the text of the agreement. At least I that looks like what I remember having as the agreement. Fact is that not even all of ISS is allowed in there. The standard procedure is, unless the person presents an imminent threat, is to inform them that the space is restricted, and ask them to leave. If they refuse, then they could be interpreted as presenting an imminent threat. As to your edited comment, I don't get it. It's actually nothing at all like that. That conversation was threads ago. Marginis, Tycho, etc. are open to everyone who isn't going to cause trouble for trade or shoot at ISS. Calico is completely closed off, even to some ISS. Is that not allowed? Is a neutral entity not allowed to have an agreement to gain access space under reasonable terms? The ISS neutrality argument is always such fun. Ok lets take a hypothetic case: I am in alliance X, which is in war with LV, but respects the ISS neutrality and what they try to do in eve. Now I go to tenerifis to shoot any LV; ISS tells me to leave its restricted space, I dont leave, but I dont aggro ISS either. Now they will (according to that agreement and what you said), fire at me to protect LV. So much for the neutrality. The issue of how many corps allowed, does not matter! what matters is their actions. ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved!
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:54:00 - [122] Originally by: Kira Belts are allocated to corps. This list is published on this forum. There will be 1 belt per 10 members (rounded down) in the outpost system. Additional allocations will be made as necessary, however it is likely these will be in systems around C3-0YD. Claim jumping may result in a fine, and for repeated offenses additional action may be take. Each corp is entitled to manage 'their' belts how they wish. LOL at that belt allocation!! funniest thing I ever saw so far! ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved!
Rei Toai Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:57:00 - [123] Originally by: Crovan Well, someone posted the text of the agreement. At least I that looks like what I remember having as the agreement. Fact is that not even all of ISS is allowed in there. The standard procedure is, unless the person presents an imminent threat, is to inform them that the space is restricted, and ask them to leave. If they refuse, then they could be interpreted as presenting an imminent threat. so ISS sees a floating pod as an imminent threat? interesting regarding piracy - if i'm not mistaken D¦ has LV on -10 .. this means it's not the common "piracy" where unsuspecting people get shot (as LV has likely D¦ also on -10 - only newbs and n00bs think they are safe when something with a red "-" shows up on overview) .. so in fact ISS is enforcing LV's policy and negating it's own (if i remember correct ISS retaliates piracy but not regular conflicts between entities that are known .. though some "adjustments of station services" seem to be inside the ISS charta) regarding neutrality - well there are two things to mention in this case - first of all ISS HAS TO DO deals with neighbouring entities - it don't see a problem with it in regards to neutrality - but ISS also has to stay OUT OF A CONFLICT between friendly (to ISS) entities. taking side (in the means of combat) WILL cause harm to ISS. __________________________________ I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know.
NOObbody Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:58:00 - [124] Originally by: Hans Rex Why are they gate camping in Providence anyway? Holidays from months of pos wars...
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:11:00 - [125] Originally by: Rei Toai so ISS sees a floating pod as an imminent threat? interesting Pods are the ideal tools for scouting out POS and POS defences. Also, whilst not ideal, they are perfectly servicable for making deep safespots. So perhaps not an imminent threat, but a potentially serious one nevertheless. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:12:00 - [126] 5 pages long? am i in a bob thread? ... rabble rabble rabble ... ------------ - All Hail, Leader of The Pod Brigade
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:14:00 - [127] It's funny to read how some want to 'build things' and some others just want to 'pop things'. When it becomes hilarious is when you have both kinds of pilots in a same alliance, and even in a same corp. So you have the PvPers trying their best to provoke incidents and the carebears trying their best to nap everything in sight. Hence the posts from PA, IRON or Razor going from 'as much as we regret it, we have evidence that we can't keep you +10 anymore' to 'die morons, about time!' I hate to say it, but IMHO there's only one coherent alliance in the game, and it's BoB. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
MacDuncan Minmatar Unknown Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:14:00 - [128] Originally by: Alex Tremayne Pods are the ideal tools for scouting out POS and POS defences. Also, whilst not ideal, they are perfectly servicable for making deep safespots. So perhaps not an imminent threat, but a potentially serious one nevertheless. ROFLCOTPER...pods are sooooo ebil...beware of the fleet of pod...they might be pod of doom...gg --
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:16:00 - [129] Edited by: NATMav on 17/10/2006 14:17:13 Just to give ISS a heads up, we have you -10 as well. The only way to truely stay neutral in this universe is to not shoot anyone or supply one single entity. When you make a deal, such as the one outlined above, you have aligned yourselves against all enemies of LV, while at the same time lining their pockets to feed their war machine against your other "friends". LTS: Borealis shares FREEE is Recruiting
Scrofalitic One Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:19:00 - [130] Originally by: Sorja Hence the posts from PA, IRON or Razor going from 'as much as we regret it, we have evidence that we can't keep you +10 anymore' to 'die morons, about time!' Ummm, its D2 not PA, and to be honest the only difference between those two statements is the amount of politeness the posters choose to express. In 0.0 politics as you should well know, not being +ive basically means you're a podding waiting to happen. So, it would seem that there IS consistency to the posts after all, in content if not in politeness.
Rei Toai Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:28:00 - [131] Originally by: Alex Tremayne Originally by: Rei Toai so ISS sees a floating pod as an imminent threat? interesting Pods are the ideal tools for scouting out POS and POS defences. Also, whilst not ideal, they are perfectly servicable for making deep safespots. So perhaps not an imminent threat, but a potentially serious one nevertheless. i doubt that a D¦ pod will be a serious threat to any ISS installation (before the incident that is) as D¦ has you on blue and no reason to shoot you. it might be a threat to LV installations ... but LV and ISS aren't napped in the sense of "we shoot all baddies" - if the deal with LV says so ... well the ISS leadership should have maybe invested a bit more time to consider all possibilities. having a deal with one entitie is one thing - shooting a friendly entitie because there's a deal with another entitie is another thing. __________________________________ I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know.
Martini20 Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:29:00 - [132] Edited by: Martini20 on 17/10/2006 14:31:02 Edited by: Martini20 on 17/10/2006 14:30:09 Hey ISS Guys you have killed 2 of our freinds. They want only dock on your outpost and repair their ships. You say you are neutral to all but this is not neutral. Sure sometime we killed one from you but it was a mistake and we have payed you all your losses by us. So bee neutral to all or not.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:36:00 - [133] Originally by: Sorja It's funny to read how some want to 'build things' and some others just want to 'pop things'. When it becomes hilarious is when you have both kinds of pilots in a same alliance, and even in a same corp. So you have the PvPers trying their best to provoke incidents and the carebears trying their best to nap everything in sight. Hence the posts from PA, IRON or Razor going from 'as much as we regret it, we have evidence that we can't keep you +10 anymore' to 'die morons, about time!' I hate to say it, but IMHO there's only one coherent alliance in the game, and it's BoB. Now that is getting saved for posterity.
Skeltek Caldari Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:42:00 - [134] Originally by: Kira Knightly Security and military + ISS will assume responsability of patrolling the northern part of the region. ISS will pursue and suppress pirate incursions into the region. ISS will keep LV central space command informed of all foreign alliance movements in Tenerifis and as such act as border guards and reconnaissance for LV. So this shows it is not single members trespassing. ISS has cut their own head off making such an agreement. It is absolutely normal for the greater 0.0 alliances to weaken the enemy¦s infrastructure by disturbing and attacking their space. If you want a piece of the riches of 0.0 space, you have to be able to claim/defend the space and also provide docking possibilities and limited protection for the people who want to participate in your established infrastructure. It is not normal to be able to enter 0.0 space and harvest it¦s riches without any competition or without need of defence. That is a luxury ISS had so far. Their neutrality gives them the possibility to harvest and trade almost everywhere with the major alliances tollerating them and allowing them to grab a part of the riches of someone else¦s 0.0 space. By agreeing to help defend one 0.0 alliance¦s space, they theoreticaly join in the competition of one side. It is not possible to "join" Lotka Voltera alliance and it¦s interests and still demand free passage and not being agressed on the other. kind regards, Skeltek ps: why isn¦t my noobcorp-alt allowed snooping around everywhere?
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:48:00 - [135] Originally by: Hans Rex D2 Pirates? Lets see camping the Esa pipe, popping haulers. Camping the HED pipe, popping haulers. Roaming through Catch, popping haulers. Sounds like pirates to me. I've been podded in a hauler several times by D2. Now I know as a one man trader corp, I present a major threat to the mighty D2. Why are they gate camping in Providence anyway? Simple pirates running around the South, spouting off. If we shoot you in our space, it's because we are defending our territory. If we shoot you in someone else's territory, it's because we are trying to dmaage our enemies. If we take a pop at you in 0.1-0.4, and we aren't at war. Then yeah, we could be pirating. Oh, and WTF on ISS neutrality? In this case you chouls have certainly created another alliance with a different set of RoE. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:06:00 - [136] Originally by: Alex Tremayne Originally by: Rei Toai so ISS sees a floating pod as an imminent threat? interesting Pods are the ideal tools for scouting out POS and POS defences. Also, whilst not ideal, they are perfectly servicable for making deep safespots. So perhaps not an imminent threat, but a potentially serious one nevertheless. If someone that ISS is +10 to wants to scout out the space of their enemy...then ISS should let them. That is neutrality.
Dingus Rx	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:10:00 - [137] Welcome to the party Burn Eden. If ISS hired you, then they spent their money wisely. EC- area is going to be interesting for awhile. I see from your kill board that your also killing our enemies (RISK and Co.)as well, ty. I will work hard to help counter your one proven tactic, uncloak - drop bubble - warp in Ravens at 200k - Sensor Dampen - hit with Tech II torps. Dingus Out
Scrofalitic One Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:12:00 - [138] Originally by: Serapis Aote If someone that ISS is +10 to wants to scout out the space of their enemy...then ISS should let them. That is neutrality. Exactly. In the case in point the ISS chappy should have ignored the passing of the D2 chap, as equally if he had been travelling through (for instance) Deklein and had seen a LV pod floating by he should ignore that. To be neutral they must not engage in combat, spy on or otherwise compromise ANY activity that the other alliance is up to. Is that possible? Probably not, and therein lies the problem.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:13:00 - [139] D2 you will find that shooting ISS is quite fun. They have a severe lack of knowledge of what to do in a fight and their haulers usually drop decent loot. What is also fun is that they usually dig themselves into these holes and then whine about how they are nuetral when the shovel appears above them to bury them. Kill them all D2! In rust we trust!!!
Torshin Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:16:00 - [140] To reply to an earlier post, ISS does camp the Torrinos gate along side members of Northern Alliances. The thing about these camps is the ISS members only engage targets that are KOS and do not engage those who are neutral. While this technically is perfectly legal it looks very poor have ISS sit at gate camps where neutrals or even blues are blown out of the sky. Krin - forget the rest.
Tribunal FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:20:00 - [141] Originally by: Butter Dog HOWEVER, and its a big 'however', because of the open nature of ISS, its pretty easy to get alt spies into the alliance. It is the actions of these few individuals on which you are judging the alliance. You are entitled to do this, but it is not ISS you are judging, it is alt spies. You could argue they should change membership criterea to make it tougher for corps to join, but that would go against what ISS is all about - opening up underused areas of 0.0 like Pure Blind and Providence to new corps who otherwise would not have 0.0 access. The alt issue IS the main reason people have a problem with ISS. When IAC has set up a gate camp and the same ISS shuttle: enters the gate, warps off, comes right back to the gate at 100km, warps off, comes back to the gate, warps off... over and over it is a problem. There is no other reason for actions like that to be happening unless the ISS in question is passing along intel. If you think that people doing such acts aren't going to tarnish the neutral stance of an alliance then you are delusional. P.S. There is a reason that the Northern alliances are down South fighting, it's because the North NAPs way too much. It's the same retarded, lets NAP everyone, act that certain alliances down South are trying to do. I thought I was moving out of carebear land when I left empire space, now I see the only change is that the NPCs are bigger. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
Skull Digger Minmatar ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:20:00 - [142] Originally by: Mar Drakar Originally by: Fred0 Originally by: Mar Drakar why dont you sign a nap for a change... oh thats what you do daily.. er... then go sign a nap ? ... omg again... Yawn dude. We're on a roadtrip down south. And I see no friggin blues anywhere. Just because we managed to clear out space for ourselves and our allies in one swoop doesn't mean we have more naps than anyone else. Tell me what significant nap is new around the north from D2/IRON/RAWR/RZR/CDC perspective... We've all been napped for pretty much the whole year. All I hear is corps like yours whining because you can't get into the club because we are not looking at accepting willy nilly. And that makes you bitter and coming here whining about a napclub on forums lol. well afaik there was an invitation to join the napclub but screw that we said and we didn't. And who is bitter? not me for sure. Corps like me? name at least one corp like me who would WANT to join... and insignificant nap you say? ... can we sign one? we just shoot ya up insignificantly and we can all be in one club Goto ZD4 its a nice zyztem. What system you guys in now H-PA? __________ Death is about 1.2 sec away. Have you updated your clone recently. . Death to Pods
Yodaron Ballsithor Gallente Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:38:00 - [143] (cont.) I truely wish that ISS would reevaluate it's position and strive towards the neutrality that it supposedly aspires to ensure. The development of 0.0 space for players that are not aligned with the major alliances in Eve is a laudable goal, one worth preserving if at all possible.
Yodaron Ballsithor Gallente Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:38:00 - [144] I have read all the posts defending ISS neutrality and they seem to miss the most important point. I have included the quote below as an example of what is important in this discussion and have highlighted the relevant language. Originally by: Scrofalitic One Originally by: Butter Dog Unfortunately every alliance has the odd tard who ruins it for everyone else, and this is one such person. ... Hopefully they will kick him from the alliance for being a tard, and I'm sure an apology from their management will be forthcoming in your direction. Unfortunatly this was not the only incident that occured. There were other actions taken by ISS members that constituted valid reasons for the change to neg standing. Of course as I am a mere grunt I would not dream of speaking for the alliance, or on behalf of anyone but myself, but maybe a bit of shooty-shooty will make ISS reconsider acting as ASCN scouts in the future... I have also read in this thread that ISS rent some space from LV and the contract has apparently been posted as well. The contract requires some normal, but interesting provisions that end the inquiry into the neutrality of ISS: Originally by: Kira Knightly + Docking rights: Only ISS corporations who have paid the fees to LV may dock. All LV corporations may dock at any time. + Docking rights: Only ISS corporations who have paid the fees to LV may dock. All LV corporations may dock at any time. + ISS will assume responsability of patrolling the northern part of the region. ISS will pursue and suppress pirate incursions into the region. ISS will keep LV central space command informed of all foreign alliance movements in Tenerifis and as such act as border guards and reconnaissance for LV. I think D2 is starting to learn what we learned in FIX when small HF and ASCN gangs were incurring into Q space on a reqular basis. ISS has POS'es in the A2 pipe and ISS members consistently gave ASCN and HF intel on FIX (and presumably BOB) military movements. Those POS'es have been removed and ISS is no longer permitted in Q for obvious reasons. ROS'ing a D2 member when D2 was either positive or neutral to ISS (in either event, they were not threatening ISS assets and were allowed to dock and use ISS facilities) is not an act of neutrality. Providing intel to enemies is not an act of neutrality. Attempting to spin it in any other fashion is honestly bad form. I do not pretend to speak to D2 policy, nor shall I try. I can state, however, when faced with an "obvious" lack of neutrality (the supposed hallmark of ISS) I believe it is quite normal to expect the offended party to respond in an appropriate fashion. ISS tried to bring a wonderful concept to Eve with it's neutrality based infrastructure building in 0.0. Sadly, they have begun to trap themselves into little compartments that erode their position, the LV lease being a prime example. To resolve this problem it would appear that ISS needs to remove from rented space and thereby eliminate the requirements built into it's contract with LV that: (1) it only allow LV approved corps., etc. to dock at an ISS outpost, (2) it's own corporations pay LV a rental fee to dock at an ISS outpost, and (3) it provide intel on any alliance movements in the space it rents to LV. To do otherwise will simply leave ISS in an untenable position regarding it's neutrality. One final note: I am not sure how ISS justify providing intel to one set of hostiles over another. In other words, if ASCN is hostile to D2, and assuming that ISS is providing intel to ASCN of D2 ship movements, then is ISS "taking sides" in the conflict between the parties, thereby showing "preference" (i.e., non-neutrality) towards one customer over another? Given FIX'es experiences and those of D2, and in light of the LV contract, it would appear that ISS neutrality is nothing but a conveniently spoken concept not practiced by ISS in the world of Eve. (cont.)
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:42:00 - [145] Quote: One final note: I am not sure how ISS justify providing intel to one set of hostiles over another. In other words, if ASCN is hostile to D2, and assuming that ISS is providing intel to ASCN of D2 ship movements, then is ISS "taking sides" in the conflict between the parties, thereby showing "preference" (i.e., non-neutrality) towards one customer over another? It doesn't. A corp has been kicked from ISS quite recently for doing exactly this.
Yodaron Ballsithor Gallente Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:48:00 - [146] Originally by: James Lyrus Quote: One final note: I am not sure how ISS justify providing intel to one set of hostiles over another. In other words, if ASCN is hostile to D2, and assuming that ISS is providing intel to ASCN of D2 ship movements, then is ISS "taking sides" in the conflict between the parties, thereby showing "preference" (i.e., non-neutrality) towards one customer over another? It doesn't. A corp has been kicked from ISS quite recently for doing exactly this. While this is laudable, you are contractually obligated to provide that information to LV in the rented space. Do you not see the internal conflict with your stated policies?
Lunamariea Hawke Gallente Combined industrial	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:50:00 - [147] D2 are very skilled at some things it is a pity that diplomacy is not one of them, it would be nice for once if they tried to solve this through diplomatic channels. Being probably the second most looked to Alliance in the game you would have thought that they would be good at this. Without being a fangirl BOB are very good, more people hate them than D2, however they have respect as they use diplomacy and fighting to solve problems. D2 so far have mostly resorted to treachery whereas if BoB say something thats what they mean. I do seem to remember 3 weeks ago D2 ganked 2 ISS pilots in x70 for no reason, this caused a local outcry at the time and preceeds all of this.How soon people forget. D2 play the injured party very well but thats normally how they set people up for a stab in the back. It is nice to see from some postings above that some guys are coming back to the game now that D2 have set ISS to -10, these must be very special pvpers indeed to want such a challenge....
Manas The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:56:00 - [148] The ISS members and corporations who keep the stations running do so not out of profit (it isnÆt really profitable with the shares distributed), but because it opens up interesting gameplay. Running an open outpost and market in 0.0 space is an interesting and difficult challenge. With a large and open alliance like ISS, there will always be loose cannons, but the ISS leadership does a fine job of kicking troublemakers, smoothing ruffled feathers, and making policy adjustments where necessary. Hopefully aggrieved parties will give the ISS leadership a chance to work. I wish to give thanks to ISS for giving many small corporations and newer players the opportunity to experience 0.0 space without giving up their identity. They are an incubator for many future great 0.0 space corps. Thanks to the ISS diplomats and pilots who are trying to keep places like Cassini/EC-P8R even halfway sane. And thanks for making Eve more interesting by adding some variety in 0.0 space alliances. Now back to the hating.. About TGRAD
Taralesk Inshani Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 15:56:00 - [149] Originally by: Hans Rex D2 Pirates? Lets see camping the Esa pipe, popping haulers. Camping the HED pipe, popping haulers. Roaming through Catch, popping haulers. Sounds like pirates to me. I've been podded in a hauler several times by D2. Now I know as a one man trader corp, I present a major threat to the mighty D2. Why are they gate camping in Providence anyway? Simple pirates running around the South, spouting off. Ok, so I'm an evil pirate, so what? Are you really complaining about being shot in low sec / 0.0 by us? NBSI, ever heard of it? . Originally by: Ashen Brarn Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
Snodgey2004 Mega Modal M0nkeys	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:00:00 - [150] Never liked ISS myself , so more people shooting them is cool ...KILL EM' ALL !!!
Taralesk Inshani Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:00:00 - [151] Originally by: DANGEROUS OMFG - we are -10 to ISS - - I AM COMING BACK TO THE GAME TONIGHT YEA YEA YEA Woot! Dangerous! . Originally by: Ashen Brarn Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
BenjaminBarker	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:17:00 - [152] Originally by: Audrea Ok lets take a hypothetic case: I am in alliance X, which is in war with LV, but respects the ISS neutrality and what they try to do in eve. Now I go to tenerifis to shoot any LV; ISS tells me to leave its restricted space, I dont leave, but I dont aggro ISS either. Now they will (according to that agreement and what you said), fire at me to protect LV. So much for the neutrality. The issue of how many corps allowed, does not matter! what matters is their actions. Take a look at the area in question... it's like 8 systems on a dead end chain. There isn't a single LV pilot or LV asset (save the outpost that's under ISS control). It isn't LV sovereignty (ISS claims sovereignty to reduce POS fuel costs). The ONLY reason for a non-iss pilot to enter that area is to attack ISS. Neutrality IS NOT Pacifism, do you really expect ISS to eject and let you pod them instead of protecting their assets? If you want to ***** about a neutral alliance paying your enemy for use of their space, you're an idiot. How about selling ships or modules to your enemy on an open market, is that not neutral? What about buying from them in empire, is that a breach of neutrality? Are you going to go wardec empire corps that mine ice that ends up in your enemies POS's? Just because your LV is smart enough to make the most out of their space doesn't mean ISS is not neutral. You want to make billions off of ISS as well - then offer them a secure portion of profitable space and charge them for it's use. I doubt they'll pass on the offer. If they did, then you can question their neutrality. A post back a ways sums it up nicely - something along the lines of 'D2 doesn't need to justify their reasons'. And they're right - they can go to war for any reason they want, but the moment they try to claim that ISS isn't neutral they better back that up. So far all I've seen is unsupported claims of ISS reporting D2 movements to their enemies, and a smacktard who got his ass kicked, after asking for it mind you, and then complaining to his betters. You're just a bunch of pirates looking for more blinky - and not surprisingly you're using their same arguments. Neutrality != Pacifism
Beringe Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:19:00 - [153] Will the diplomats step in, allready? I wouldn't normally comment on this sort of pond scum thread, but as I recall, ISS actually has some fairly intelligent people running things. ------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
d4ve InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:29:00 - [154] Originally by: BenjaminBarker ...but the moment they try to claim that ISS isn't neutral they better back that up. So far all I've seen is unsupported claims of ISS reporting D2 movements to their enemies actually.. lots of pilots not connected to D2 in any other way than a mutual -10 standing on alliance level is backing this up. ___
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:31:00 - [155] Originally by: Sorja I hate to say it, but IMHO there's only one coherent alliance in the game, and it's BoB. Agreed. Alliances should all pitch in and stop being so damn selfish and fight and die as one the way it should be. Just look at military history: wars and battles are won not by numbers, but by cohesion and a common goal.
Torshin Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:35:00 - [156] ISS is not trying to deny that reports were made on D2 fleet movements. This thread wasn't even started by ISS crying it was started by a player who enjoyed ISS 0.0 access and then D2 decided to flame it. SAS did report on Razors fleet movements against ASCN and their corp was kicked instantly. Any other reports of these acts that have been made clear to Count have been dealt with in a similar manor. D2 did have reason to break the NAP, but it isn't like ISS hasn't also had reason to break the nap. D2 pilots have on several occasions killed ISS pilots while the NAP was in effect and they remain in the alliance. I don't feel that D2 should be so hypocritcal about something like this. Krin - forget the rest.
Taralesk Inshani Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:38:00 - [157] Edited by: Taralesk Inshani on 17/10/2006 16:41:04 Originally by: BenjaminBarker A post back a ways sums it up nicely - something along the lines of 'D2 doesn't need to justify their reasons'.... You're just a bunch of pirates looking for more blinky - and not surprisingly you're using their same arguments.... Yarrrrr Also, you're going to get modded if you don't show corp. . Quote: Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
BenjaminBarker Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:42:00 - [158] Originally by: d4ve Originally by: BenjaminBarker ...but the moment they try to claim that ISS isn't neutral they better back that up. So far all I've seen is unsupported claims of ISS reporting D2 movements to their enemies actually.. lots of pilots not connected to D2 in any other way than a mutual -10 standing on alliance level is backing this up. The shared desire to shoot a neutral, industrial alliance doesn't change the fact that the alliance is neutral, it makes everyone shooting them pirates. Thing is, a neutral alliance can help your enemy and still be neutral (buying/sell on an open market, etc). If those other corps don't like it, they can offer ISS a similar deal, or they can attack ISS to reduce LV profits. Obviously they're attacking ISS, but they're using lame excuses and claiming ISS isn't neutral instead of the truth: They've got every reason to attack ISS - ISS is providing LV with a lot of ISK, but that doesn't change their neutrality. What they're asking for is for ISS to sit in empire and not interact with anyone - no buying, no selling, no deals, no working with friendly pilots, no nothing... that's not neutrality, that's going AFK. If ISS is really neutral, they'll offer the same deal up to anyone who wants it, and I've seen no one say that they were rejected by ISS because ISS didn't like them.
eXtas Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:44:00 - [159] ohh this topic is really funny :) I really understand d2/iron... neutrals giving intel to enemys :( wish I could join the fun.. oh wait we arent + to iss :)
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:49:00 - [160] Originally by: BenjaminBarker Originally by: Audrea Ok lets take a hypothetic case: I am in alliance X, which is in war with LV, but respects the ISS neutrality and what they try to do in eve. Now I go to tenerifis to shoot any LV; ISS tells me to leave its restricted space, I dont leave, but I dont aggro ISS either. Now they will (according to that agreement and what you said), fire at me to protect LV. So much for the neutrality. The issue of how many corps allowed, does not matter! what matters is their actions. Take a look at the area in question... it's like 8 systems on a dead end chain. There isn't a single LV pilot or LV asset (save the outpost that's under ISS control). It isn't LV sovereignty (ISS claims sovereignty to reduce POS fuel costs). The ONLY reason for a non-iss pilot to enter that area is to attack ISS. Neutrality IS NOT Pacifism, do you really expect ISS to eject and let you pod them instead of protecting their assets? If you want to ***** about a neutral alliance paying your enemy for use of their space, you're an idiot. How about selling ships or modules to your enemy on an open market, is that not neutral? What about buying from them in empire, is that a breach of neutrality? Are you going to go wardec empire corps that mine ice that ends up in your enemies POS's? Just because your LV is smart enough to make the most out of their space doesn't mean ISS is not neutral. You want to make billions off of ISS as well - then offer them a secure portion of profitable space and charge them for it's use. I doubt they'll pass on the offer. If they did, then you can question their neutrality. A post back a ways sums it up nicely - something along the lines of 'D2 doesn't need to justify their reasons'. And they're right - they can go to war for any reason they want, but the moment they try to claim that ISS isn't neutral they better back that up. So far all I've seen is unsupported claims of ISS reporting D2 movements to their enemies, and a smacktard who got his ass kicked, after asking for it mind you, and then complaining to his betters. You're just a bunch of pirates looking for more blinky - and not surprisingly you're using their same arguments. Neutrality != Pacifism The problem is not teh fact they are living in LV space, and lets ignore for a moment that indeed paying rent for high end ore systems is unavoidable.. and they jsut chose the best deal they got. Now, if my alliance X comes to one of those 8 systems on a dead end chain, which is comfortable capital jump point to attack LV, and erect large deathstar in that system. What will ISS do? if they stand back and do nothing all is good, but if they do as much as give intel to LV, here lies the problem. And according to that contract, they must. ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved!
d4ve InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:49:00 - [161] Originally by: BenjaminBarker What they're asking for is for ISS to sit in empire and not interact with anyone - no buying, no selling, no deals, no working with friendly pilots, no nothing... hahah.. no they/we are not. we just dont want them helping entitys hostile to us in a combat situation. Originally by: BenjaminBarker Thing is, a neutral alliance can help your enemy and still be neutral nope.. they cant. at least not as directly as iss has been caught doing like half a dozen times down south lately. ___
Taralesk Inshani Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:53:00 - [162] Originally by: BenjaminBarker The shared desire to shoot a neutral, industrial alliance doesn't change the fact that the alliance is neutral, it makes everyone shooting them pirates. Nothing in Eve is neutral, safe, or otherwise not considered as a target. This should be obvious by now. This isn't a tinfoil hat party. Most of us don't care. Red = shoot. PVP is fun. Since you apparently consider NBSI policy piracy, I guess we're all just ebil pirate scum. This changes what? So we're all pirates according to you, so what? Now, go away alt. . Quote: Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
copicus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:04:00 - [163] ISS want to review the 'deals' they do to get access to 0.0 That deal stated above totally revokes all neutrality.You are standing up and saying that you are LV's allies. In a nutshell..... thats my opinion only and not that of my corp or alliance ..... etc,etc,etc. P.S. have a nice day ISS
DeadDuck Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:06:00 - [164] Originally by: Audrea And according to that contract, they must. Well there are good contracts and bad contracts .... seems to me that this was a good contract for LV and a bad one to ISS. What keeps ISS alive is the neutrality status. By the looks this ISS situation down south is very similar to the FIX situation in Querious, the region is under BOB control and they let FIX live there and protect the area for them... is FIX neutral ? Make some jumps there and they will offer you a nice "bath of neutrality" with a pod express ticket For a few more isks you have put in danger your neutrality status ... nice move
Yodaron Ballsithor Gallente Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:11:00 - [165] Originally by: Serapis Aote Originally by: James Lyrus Quote: One final note: I am not sure how ISS justify providing intel to one set of hostiles over another. In other words, if ASCN is hostile to D2, and assuming that ISS is providing intel to ASCN of D2 ship movements, then is ISS "taking sides" in the conflict between the parties, thereby showing "preference" (i.e., non-neutrality) towards one customer over another? It doesn't. A corp has been kicked from ISS quite recently for doing exactly this. ISS passes info about fleet movements in intel channels all the time in catch and providence. Just check the channels and you will see ISS reporting fleet movements of more then just pirates. I assume this is a correct statement, although I wonder which of the alliances fleet movements are reported and which alliances fleet movements are not. Back on point though, ISS provided intel to both HF and ASCN in Q space (i.e., A2 pipe), not Catch or Providence. Heck, ISS pilots used to camp the A2 gate on occasion as well, although this is an area far from ISS space. Further, given that ISS has no interests in the lower part of Catch, why would ISS also pass info to HF and ASCN there back when HF was in control of FAT, V2, etc.? This occurred also. It is these situations, together with rental agreements, etc., that compromise your neutrality.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:27:00 - [166] Originally by: Taralesk Inshani Ok, so I'm an evil pirate, so what? Are you really complaining about being shot in low sec / 0.0 by us? To explain what he was refering to, and to feed the need for paranoia and conspiracy theorists, D2 seemed to be trying to put a stranglehold on trade/manufacturing activities on the southern route leading to ISS Fabrica already by doing a near 24/7 camp on the 0.0 side of the Kari gate in Providence long before that chat log made. D2 simply jump to high sec space when things get too hot from other Providence locals who try to stop them and then D2 goes back to ganking people when things cool down. ISSN has not put up a resistance to that gate camping due to the blue standings. Originally by: Taralesk Inshani NBSI, ever heard of it? I have. It is the acronym used by 0.0 alliances to justify ganking helpless pilots and so their pilots can be jackasses and bullies.
Acwron Minmatar Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:30:00 - [167] Originally by: Lunamariea Hawke [...] This Thread should be closed anyway. It's started by an obvious alt who according to his posting history has continously posted flamebaits against D¦. Somebody who is posting blatent lies and spreads false information should at least have to use a main to do it.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:32:00 - [168] Originally by: FireFoxx80 I feel that ISS is not providing the security in Pure Blind that it offers to alliances in the south. We have such terrorists as D00M, YNC, and other running riot in the systems surrounding both ISS outposts; yet they do nothing to ensure the safety of pilots trying to reach their stations. I hear that the ISS Navy cannot even remove a D00M POS that is anchored by one of the moons in EC-P8R. I'm sorry, at what point did ISS state they would police Pure Blind for you?
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:37:00 - [169] Originally by: grizouh Originally by: Kira Knightly + ISS will assume responsability of patrolling the northern part of the region. ISS will pursue and suppress pirate incursions into the region. ISS will keep LV central space command informed of all foreign alliance movements in Tenerifis and as such act as border guards and reconnaissance for LV. Transgressions of any one of these, all in all, very simple rules will lead to immediate expulsion from ISS. Did D2 become pirates or are ISS breaking their own contract rules? I always knew kalok (soaralba) is a pirate at heart seriously, with a contract like stated above you can not maintain neutrality... They are simply buying a service, in this case access to some mining and NPCing. What 'neutrality' means, is that you can buy the service off any other alliance, including yours. If ISS set up a similar mutually profitable agreement with D2, maybe you guys might think differently. I understand LV make a very nice profit from the arrangement, so it would seem to be potentially a very good idea to implement something similar.
Yodaron Ballsithor Gallente Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:40:00 - [170] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: grizouh Originally by: Kira Knightly + ISS will assume responsability of patrolling the northern part of the region. ISS will pursue and suppress pirate incursions into the region. ISS will keep LV central space command informed of all foreign alliance movements in Tenerifis and as such act as border guards and reconnaissance for LV. Transgressions of any one of these, all in all, very simple rules will lead to immediate expulsion from ISS. Did D2 become pirates or are ISS breaking their own contract rules? I always knew kalok (soaralba) is a pirate at heart seriously, with a contract like stated above you can not maintain neutrality... They are simply buying a service, in this case access to some mining and NPCing. What 'neutrality' means, is that you can buy the service off any other alliance, including yours. If ISS set up a similar mutually profitable agreement with D2, maybe you guys might think differently. I understand LV make a very nice profit from the arrangement, so it would seem to be potentially a very good idea to implement something similar. Butter, you really have no clue or you are simply ignoring the point. It is not the fact that two (2) alliances are making profit in a mutual way. It is the fact that ISS is obligated to report movements of hostiles to LV when ISS is supposedly neutral. Comprehension for the win!
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:41:00 - [171] Edited by: NATMav on 17/10/2006 17:42:00 Originally by: Lunamariea Hawke D2 are very skilled at some things it is a pity that diplomacy is not one of them, it would be nice for once if they tried to solve this through diplomatic channels. Being probably the second most looked to Alliance in the game you would have thought that they would be good at this. Without being a fangirl BOB are very good, more people hate them than D2, however they have respect as they use diplomacy and fighting to solve problems. D2 so far have mostly resorted to treachery whereas if BoB say something thats what they mean. I do seem to remember 3 weeks ago D2 ganked 2 ISS pilots in x70 for no reason, this caused a local outcry at the time and preceeds all of this.How soon people forget. D2 play the injured party very well but thats normally how they set people up for a stab in the back. It is nice to see from some postings above that some guys are coming back to the game now that D2 have set ISS to -10, these must be very special pvpers indeed to want such a challenge.... If you think all of this is over a few destroyed ships, you are sadly mistaken. FREEE is Recruiting
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:44:00 - [172] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Taralesk Inshani Ok, so I'm an evil pirate, so what? Are you really complaining about being shot in low sec / 0.0 by us? To explain what he was refering to, and to feed the need for paranoia and conspiracy theorists, D2 seemed to be trying to put a stranglehold on trade/manufacturing activities on the southern route leading to ISS Fabrica already by doing a near 24/7 camp on the 0.0 side of the Kari gate in Providence long before that chat log made. D2 simply jump to high sec space when things get too hot from other Providence locals who try to stop them and then D2 goes back to ganking people when things cool down. ISSN has not put up a resistance to that gate camping due to the blue standings. Originally by: Taralesk Inshani NBSI, ever heard of it? I have. It is the acronym used by 0.0 alliances to justify ganking helpless pilots and so their pilots can be jackasses and bullies. Yes, and it happens at every 0.0 chokepoint. Can we move on now? FREEE is Recruiting
Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:45:00 - [173] Originally by: Audrea Originally by: Kira Belts are allocated to corps. This list is published on this forum. There will be 1 belt per 10 members (rounded down) in the outpost system. Additional allocations will be made as necessary, however it is likely these will be in systems around C3-0YD. Claim jumping may result in a fine, and for repeated offenses additional action may be take. Each corp is entitled to manage 'their' belts how they wish. LOL at that belt allocation!! funniest thing I ever saw so far! First; mods please note that I'm not an alt. I'm member of Karjala Inc/Freelancer alliance. I am posting this just because I've been under the Tenerifis contract and want to clarify a few things for this person. I was a member of ISS a few months ago, in fact I was under the Tenerifis contract. While it had a few points I didn't like (for example 15M/week/person rent) the thing was that the constellation that is/was under the contract was actually very well managed. The fact that we actually divided all the available resources -like asteroid belts allocated by corp member amount- gave us all a rare opportunity to really gain ISK in a fast and steady pace. With some management we managed to have very high income just by having three belts and one system reserved to us. Heck, I even know a guy who made 300M just from ratting each week in there. The whole Tenerifis contract is a pioneer project of ISS but the problem which is also shown in this thread is that such project can't be seen as neutral from any point of view. By renting space from LV for such a specific project it is clearly a siding move with an alliance ISS sees as "good guys" and while the actual system works, it just doesn't fit to what ISS represents. This is of course just my own personal opinion. Okay, that's all. Now I shall never post here again...
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:45:00 - [174] Originally by: Scrofalitic One Originally by: Serapis Aote If someone that ISS is +10 to wants to scout out the space of their enemy...then ISS should let them. That is neutrality. Exactly. In the case in point the ISS chappy should have ignored the passing of the D2 chap, as equally if he had been travelling through (for instance) Deklein and had seen a LV pod floating by he should ignore that. To be neutral they must not engage in combat, spy on or otherwise compromise ANY activity that the other alliance is up to. Is that possible? Probably not, and therein lies the problem. I agree with this completely. They should have left that D2 pod alone. When I was in ISS I argued that we should leave people in northern Tenerifis alone unless they were actually -10 to us. I'm sure this event will cause them to think about the details of their agreement with LV, and I'm even more certain that ISS management will come up with a solution which works for all parties. They are good like that.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:46:00 - [175] Originally by: Yodaron Ballsithor Butter, you really have no clue or you are simply ignoring the point. It is not the fact that two (2) alliances are making profit in a mutual way. It is the fact that ISS is obligated to report movements of hostiles to LV when ISS is supposedly neutral. Comprehension for the win! Yes, sorry, I'm not ignoring the issue... I just forgot to cover it. That part of the agreement needs removing in my opinion.
Skeltek Caldari Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:49:00 - [176] I hope ISS does kick the responsible person for dealing out the LV contract. I hope ISS does not kick a corporation because they just did what ISS management contracted out. Ohh, yeah, too late, the few "loose canons/troublemakers" were kicked already? One day,I will found a neutral alliance myself, operating out of branch and building the industrial arm of D2. BoB should be prohibited to attack them, they are neutral, have nothing to do with us and just give us intel once in a while while shooting our enemies =D We don¦t care wether or not ISS gives fees for using their own outpost in a deadend arm of LV space or if they sell stuff to LV too, the only thing which matters is that ISS management dealed out a contract and gives military intel to our enemies(not only in LV space). ->We decide the logical consequence to prevent damage to ourselves and are threatened by ISS that our reputation will get flamed if we do not proove the facts. ->The only possibility of "proving" "fact" would be to post chatloggs. ->If we post various chatloggs every single one gets reduced to "exceptions or troublemakers". ->If we show that ISS management has contracted an official deal to pass on military intel, the involved corps get kicked(which only did what was demanded by the leader¦s contract). kind regards, Skel ps: about D2 being incompetent in terms of diplomacy: Diplomacy is usualy being made ingame and in voicecoms between usualy the leaders of the alliances. Decisions are made and the reasons told to the opposite parties. There is no reason to discuss every BS on the official forums. The fact you do not see any diplomatic discussions or agreements on the forums does not mean there are none. G and in the beginning also D2 were one of the very few trying to not practise NBSI-policy(not blue, shoot it). Time has proven that enemy altchars, spy-alts and enemy industrial alts cannot be distinguished(there are simply too many corps in EVE), thus it is neccessary to shoot neutrals in most cases. If you ask for standings with the major corporations, you should never have a problem with getting shot. Of course, the number of standing slots is limited, so it might happen that not every 5-man corp will get a standing set towards them.
Taralesk Inshani Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:54:00 - [177] Originally by: Derran I have. It is the acronym used by 0.0 alliances to justify ganking helpless pilots and so their pilots can be jackasses and bullies. It's a pvp game, people get shot. I need no justification to fly around and shoot people. If a person doesn't want PVP, they should avoid situations where it may occur. No one is helpless unless they choose to be. . Quote: Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:54:00 - [178] neu‧tral /ˈnutrəl, ˈnyu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[noo-truhl, nyoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation ûadjective 1. not taking part or giving assistance in a dispute or war between others: a neutral nation during World War II. 2. not aligned with or supporting any side or position in a controversy: The arbitrator was absolutely neutral. 3. of or belonging to a neutral state or party: neutral territory. 4. of no particular kind, characteristics, etc.; indefinite: a neutral personality that made no impression whatever; a sex-neutral job title. 5. (of a color or shade) a. gray; without hue; of zero chroma; achromatic. b. matching well with many or most other colors or shades, as white or beige. 6. Botany, Zoology. neuter. 7. not causing or reflecting a change in something: It is believed that the new tax law will be revenue neutral. 8. Chemistry. exhibiting neither acid nor alkaline qualities: neutral salts. 9. Physics. a. (of a particle) having no charge. b. (of an atom, molecule, collection of particles, fluid, or solid) having no net charge; electroneutral; not electrified. c. not magnetized. 10. Phonetics. (of a vowel) pronounced with the tongue relaxed in a central position, as the a in alive; reduced. ûnoun 11. a person or a nation that remains neutral, as in a controversy or war. 12. a citizen of a neutral nation during a war. 13. Machinery, Automotive. the position or state of disengaged gears or other interconnecting parts: in neutral. 14. a neutral color. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin: 1400û50; late ME < L neutrālis grammatically neuter. See neuter, -al1] ùRelated forms neu‧tral‧ly, adverb ùSynonyms 2. impartial, disinterested, dispassionate, uninvolved, unbiased. FREEE is Recruiting
Rei Toai Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:57:00 - [179] Originally by: Lunamariea Hawke D2 play the injured party very well but thats normally how they set people up for a stab in the back. uhm .. if i'm not mistaken YOU made the initial post regarding this topic so your ranting on the forums might caused the actual situation - you know ... during diplomatic talks it's always bad to see something on the E-O happening in a dubious thread. Originally by: Torshin ISS is not trying to deny that reports were made on D2 fleet movements. This thread wasn't even started by ISS crying it was started by a player who enjoyed ISS 0.0 access and then D2 decided to flame it. SAS did report on Razors fleet movements against ASCN and their corp was kicked instantly. Any other reports of these acts that have been made clear to Count have been dealt with in a similar manor. D2 did have reason to break the NAP, but it isn't like ISS hasn't also had reason to break the nap. D2 pilots have on several occasions killed ISS pilots while the NAP was in effect and they remain in the alliance. I don't feel that D2 should be so hypocritcal about something like this. i think it's two different situations - you HAVE to please the surrounding entities to stay convenient and safe in 0.0 - D¦ doesn't have to do this to defend their space ... so don't complain about hypocrisy - you'd better complain about your leadership, the actual concept of ISS diplomatics ... even if you don't want to hear it: ISS HAS NO POWER - while others have. and it has nothing to do with the neighbours beeing pirates, tyrans and so on - it has only to do with flaws in the concept of ISS. Originally by: BenjaminBarker The shared desire to shoot a neutral, industrial alliance doesn't change the fact that the alliance is neutral, it makes everyone shooting them pirates. Thing is, a neutral alliance can help your enemy and still be neutral (buying/sell on an open market, etc). i thought this topic was allready cleared with the EC-P event __________________________________ I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.17 18:03:00 - [180] Originally by: Rei Toai i thought this topic was allready cleared with the EC-P event Yeah that event where one industrial alliance was believed to not be neutral and aiding another alliance, so they were removed in favor of another industrial alliance that was believed to not be neutral and aiding another alliance. FREEE is Recruiting
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 18:05:00 - [181] Going diplomatic for a second.... ISS state that they have a specific list of corporations operating in LV space. How about this: - D2/IRON set any ISS corp related to intel logs to -10 - D2/IRON set any ISS corp operating from LV space to -10 - Any other ISS corp is set to +5 What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 18:15:00 - [182] Originally by: Rei Toai ISS HAS NO POWER - while others have. and it has nothing to do with the neighbours beeing pirates, tyrans and so on - it has only to do with flaws in the concept of ISS. This sort of ill-informed rant irritates me, and I'll tell you why. ISS set out with clear goals: Develop empty areas of 0.0, so that a new generation of EVE players outside the traditional territorial alliances can experience 0.0 life. 7 outposts and 2,000 members later, they have been REMARKABLY successful in these simple and honest goals. They have changed EVE forever, in fact, more so than almost ANY territorial alliance ever has, or ever will. And they have done all this, whilst tip-toeing around the egos of the territorial alliances with remarkable diplomatic success (for the most part). ISS required tact, intelligence, and dedication for relatively little reward. But what a success they have been. So by saying what you have said, you only show yourself up, as someone who doesnt have the first clue about what ISS is actually about, what its goals where, or what it has achieved.
Lunamariea Hawke Gallente Combined industrial	Posted - 2006.10.17 18:30:00 - [183] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Going diplomatic for a second.... ISS state that they have a specific list of corporations operating in LV space. How about this: - D2/IRON set any ISS corp related to intel logs to -10 - D2/IRON set any ISS corp operating from LV space to -10 - Any other ISS corp is set to +5 Now we are getting somewhere.However maybe ammend the first line so that any corps giving intel are kicked. I think perhaps the main problem of all this is the fact that ISS are in both the North and South at once. Maybe Iss should have different divisions I.e Northern Division. Despite the bravado coming from some pilots here many ISS/d2/fla/iron are friends and often work together in the north. Iss pilots become friends with whoever is local thus Northern ISS would be unlikely to cause harm to D2. Southern ISS pilots however would be friendly with enemies of D2.
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.17 18:31:00 - [184] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Rei Toai ISS HAS NO POWER - while others have. and it has nothing to do with the neighbours beeing pirates, tyrans and so on - it has only to do with flaws in the concept of ISS. This sort of ill-informed rant irritates me, and I'll tell you why. ISS set out with clear goals: Develop empty areas of 0.0, so that a new generation of EVE players outside the traditional territorial alliances can experience 0.0 life. 7 outposts and 2,000 members later, they have been REMARKABLY successful in these simple and honest goals. They have changed EVE forever, in fact, more so than almost ANY territorial alliance ever has, or ever will. And they have done all this, whilst tip-toeing around the egos of the territorial alliances with remarkable diplomatic success (for the most part). ISS required tact, intelligence, and dedication for relatively little reward. But what a success they have been. They may have been, until they agreed to take EC- over.. this is when few began to doubt their neutrality. Now living in LV space? lol its not developing unclaimed space, its helping to develop of certain alliance's space, nothing else, as it doesnt open the space/station to neutrals/n00bs! ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved!
Devian 666 Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.10.17 19:22:00 - [185] Originally by: Manas The ISS members and corporations who keep the stations running do so not out of profit (it isn’t really profitable with the shares distributed), but because it opens up interesting gameplay. Running an open outpost and market in 0.0 space is an interesting and difficult challenge. With a large and open alliance like ISS, there will always be loose cannons, but the ISS leadership does a fine job of kicking troublemakers, smoothing ruffled feathers, and making policy adjustments where necessary. Hopefully aggrieved parties will give the ISS leadership a chance to work. I wish to give thanks to ISS for giving many small corporations and newer players the opportunity to experience 0.0 space without giving up their identity. They are an incubator for many future great 0.0 space corps. Thanks to the ISS diplomats and pilots who are trying to keep places like Cassini/EC-P8R even halfway sane. And thanks for making Eve more interesting by adding some variety in 0.0 space alliances. Now back to the hating.. No a station isn't really profitable when the shares are distributed. It's only profitable to the share holders. Hang on the station is profitable and the profits are paid out. Simply if it wasn't profitable you wouldn't be there. This is ISS propaganda. Oh yes you kick out those loose cannon alts from ISS. What a shame. Smooth ruffled feathers = lying Policy adjustments = moving away from neutrality Give the ISS leadership a chance to work(?) = to make more isk for themselves while you've pulled the wool over the eyes of the neighbouring alliances. You wish to thank ISS for allowing smacktalking carebears into 0.0 where they should be more polite to those who pod them? Enough ISS propaganda! You are a hostile entity in the north and the south. Alt post removed - post with your main! If this is your main, see the rules for details on how to stop your posts getting removed - Ductoris Er, you believed the people saying that I'm an alt? St
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 19:35:00 - [186] Originally by: Lunamariea Hawke Now we are getting somewhere.However maybe ammend the first line so that any corps giving intel are kicked. I think perhaps the main problem of all this is the fact that ISS are in both the North and South at once. Maybe Iss should have different divisions I.e Northern Division. Despite the bravado coming from some pilots here many ISS/d2/fla/iron are friends and often work together in the north. Iss pilots become friends with whoever is local thus Northern ISS would be unlikely to cause harm to D2. Southern ISS pilots however would be friendly with enemies of D2. If you can get over the political backstoy, then that has the potential to work. How about taking it to the next level? Each ISS station (or stations in some cases where they are 1j apart) has it's own alliance. ISS can set +10 to its other entities; but allows for regional differences. It would certainly make standings easier, allow ISS to remain a potentially 'neutral' entity, but also encourage other alliances to have more faith. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.17 19:39:00 - [187] Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/10/2006 19:40:02 Originally by: Devian 666 No a station isn't really profitable when the shares are distributed. It's only profitable to the share holders. Hang on the station is profitable and the profits are paid out. Simply if it wasn't profitable you wouldn't be there. This is ISS propaganda. Hmmm. I'm going to keep this simple for you, I think you need it. Monthy revenue from the outpost = circa 1bn ISK. Monthly cost of 12 large sov keeping POS to ISS = circa 500m ISK Revenue from outpost goes ENTIRELY to shareholders, the majority of whom are outside ISS. Total profit from running EC-P outpost = nothing. It COSTS ISS 500m a month to manage and this expense is NOT recovered from revenue which is paid directly to shareholders. Now, given this new information, do you now see why his post had merit, wheras yours is just an ill-informed rant?
Rei Toai Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.10.17 21:07:00 - [188] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Rei Toai ISS HAS NO POWER - while others have. and it has nothing to do with the neighbours beeing pirates, tyrans and so on - it has only to do with flaws in the concept of ISS. This sort of ill-informed rant irritates me, and I'll tell you why. ISS set out with clear goals: Develop empty areas of 0.0, so that a new generation of EVE players outside the traditional territorial alliances can experience 0.0 life. 7 outposts and 2,000 members later, they have been REMARKABLY successful in these simple and honest goals. They have changed EVE forever, in fact, more so than almost ANY territorial alliance ever has, or ever will. And they have done all this, whilst tip-toeing around the egos of the territorial alliances with remarkable diplomatic success (for the most part). ISS required tact, intelligence, and dedication for relatively little reward. But what a success they have been. So by saying what you have said, you only show yourself up, as someone who doesnt have the first clue about what ISS is actually about, what its goals where, or what it has achieved. i don't doubt the success of ISS - tbh ... i appreciate what ISS achieved in 0.0 ... but my point is imho still valid - ISS and its success relies essentially on it's neighbours good will. as you said by yourself - "tip-toeing around the egos of the territorial alliances with remarkable diplomatic success" - and i doubt you mean with this something like persuasion to play those "egos" against each other (if so - well .. then good luck that they never will find it out ) .. so don't see my "rant" as a critic on the idea behind ISS .. you should see it as a critic at those who think ISS got "victimized" by their neighbours. ISS had success with such a "underdog role" - but don't expect others to be nice to ISS if someone of the members ****s up - as ISS is no real threat to it's neighbours, it doesn't have any power in the sense of "equilibrium of fear" regarding other alliances. this is the flaw in the concept i mentioned. you had success with this concept so far - but don't expect it will necessarily work in the future - ISS has no real ability to act, more like the need to react to demands of it's neighbours. maybe i'm wrong, but that's way i perceive it, with the informations i got. so stop telling me i have no clue and better give me some good reasons not to think this way about ISS. __________________________________ I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know.
Devian 666 Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.10.17 21:27:00 - [189] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/10/2006 19:40:02 Originally by: Devian 666 No a station isn't really profitable when the shares are distributed. It's only profitable to the share holders. Hang on the station is profitable and the profits are paid out. Simply if it wasn't profitable you wouldn't be there. This is ISS propaganda. Hmmm. I'm going to keep this simple for you, I think you need it. Monthy revenue from the outpost = circa 1bn ISK. Monthly cost of 12 large sov keeping POS to ISS = circa 500m ISK Revenue from outpost goes ENTIRELY to shareholders, the majority of whom are outside ISS. Total profit from running EC-P outpost = nothing. It COSTS ISS 500m a month to manage and this expense is NOT recovered from revenue which is paid directly to shareholders. Now, given this new information, do you now see why his post had merit, wheras yours is just an ill-informed rant? That allows for the station accounting. Now if what you were saying was the entire picture then ISS would be losing 500m per month and would soon be liquidated due to having no funds. Hmmm, I don't see that happening any time soon. The spin off benefits of having the station include mining, ratting and industrial sales. No one will fork out 500m isk and not expect some benefit either currently or in the future. Selling the shares to the stations is just a risk mitigation measure which releases ISS isk for other uses. You can now continue to add more spin to the ISS propaganda machine. Alt post removed - post with your main! If this is your main, see the rules for details on how to stop your posts getting removed - Ductoris Er, you believed the people saying that I'm an alt? St
Manas The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 21:55:00 - [190] Quote: The spin off benefits of having the station include mining, ratting and industrial sales. No one will fork out 500m isk and not expect some benefit either currently or in the future. Many play styles donÆt revolve around ISK, but ôrole-playö for the want of a better word. ôThe Graduatesö (my corp) was formed out of ôEve Universityö as a way to help corporations and players to gain experience with life in 0.0 space, and new players to learn a little about PvP. So far ISS & management of ISS Cassini has indeed rewarded me in this fashion, although my wallet has seen better days. I am sure the other station managers can tell similar stories. About TGRAD
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.17 23:47:00 - [191] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh Originally by: BiONetworks Well see you on the battlefield ISS, hope you brought the tinfoil hats Note : Tinfoil hats are available for sale in all BoB owned stations. Buy yours today ! hmm, im trying to dock to pick mine up but i keep getting a message about BoB not likeing me or something, wtf??!!?
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.18 00:43:00 - [192] Originally by: FireFoxx80 We have such terrorists as D00M, YNC.... Who you calling a terrorist? How is what we do, any different to what you do?
Dragerest Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.18 02:39:00 - [193] just shooty shooty have fun and .. yeah thats it ________________________________________________________ For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.18 04:34:00 - [194] Lol Luna cry more. Their diplomacy sucks lol? Yah it usually does but in this instance i think d2's diplos finally got it right. It's best to let your guns do your negotiations tbh. In rust we trust!!!
Nixda Caldari The Red Rage	Posted - 2006.10.18 07:27:00 - [195] Originally by: BenjaminBarker Originally by: Audrea Ok lets take a hypothetic case: I am in alliance X, which is in war with LV, but respects the ISS neutrality and what they try to do in eve. Now I go to tenerifis to shoot any LV; ISS tells me to leave its restricted space, I dont leave, but I dont aggro ISS either. Now they will (according to that agreement and what you said), fire at me to protect LV. So much for the neutrality. The issue of how many corps allowed, does not matter! what matters is their actions. Take a look at the area in question... it's like 8 systems on a dead end chain. There isn't a single LV pilot or LV asset (save the outpost that's under ISS control). It isn't LV sovereignty (ISS claims sovereignty to reduce POS fuel costs). The ONLY reason for a non-iss pilot to enter that area is to attack ISS. Neutrality IS NOT Pacifism, do you really expect ISS to eject and let you pod them instead of protecting their assets? If you want to * about a neutral alliance paying your enemy for use of their space, you're an idiot. How about selling ships or modules to your enemy on an open market, is that not neutral? What about buying from them in empire, is that a breach of neutrality? Are you going to go wardec empire corps that mine ice that ends up in your enemies POS's? Just because your LV is smart enough to make the most out of their space doesn't mean ISS is not neutral. You want to make billions off of ISS as well - then offer them a secure portion of profitable space and charge them for it's use. I doubt they'll pass on the offer. If they did, then you can question their neutrality. A post back a ways sums it up nicely - something along the lines of 'D2 doesn't need to justify their reasons'. And they're right - they can go to war for any reason they want, but the moment they try to claim that ISS isn't neutral they better back that up. So far all I've seen is unsupported claims of ISS reporting D2 movements to their enemies, and a smacktard who got his ass kicked, after asking for it mind you, and then complaining to his betters. You're just a bunch of pirates looking for more blinky - and not surprisingly you're using their same arguments. Neutrality != Pacifism Wow, its the perfect solution. Just rent out your space to a supposedly neutral party and have them make money from it for you and your space cant be attacked anymore because its "neutral". You can make money from it, finance your wars against your enemies with the money, and it cant be attacked because its "neutral". Surely everyone must agree on this idea of great common sense. /sarcasm
Zooish	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:59:00 - [196] Edited by: Zooish on 18/10/2006 15:59:11 Stop acting like turds .. Either attack ISS or move on but anyone who disputes they have help "us" new players need to be put down. Yeah its hard being neutral but there again all you "drip****s" just go "shooty shooty" and then whine on the forums. Do something, nothing or move on but get off the forms.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.18 18:10:00 - [197] Originally by: Devian 666 Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/10/2006 19:40:02 Originally by: Devian 666 No a station isn't really profitable when the shares are distributed. It's only profitable to the share holders. Hang on the station is profitable and the profits are paid out. Simply if it wasn't profitable you wouldn't be there. This is ISS propaganda. Hmmm. I'm going to keep this simple for you, I think you need it. Monthy revenue from the outpost = circa 1bn ISK. Monthly cost of 12 large sov keeping POS to ISS = circa 500m ISK Revenue from outpost goes ENTIRELY to shareholders, the majority of whom are outside ISS. Total profit from running EC-P outpost = nothing. It COSTS ISS 500m a month to manage and this expense is NOT recovered from revenue which is paid directly to shareholders. Now, given this new information, do you now see why his post had merit, wheras yours is just an ill-informed rant? That allows for the station accounting. Now if what you were saying was the entire picture then ISS would be losing 500m per month and would soon be liquidated due to having no funds. Hmmm, I don't see that happening any time soon. The spin off benefits of having the station include mining, ratting and industrial sales. No one will fork out 500m isk and not expect some benefit either currently or in the future. Selling the shares to the stations is just a risk mitigation measure which releases ISS isk for other uses. You can now continue to add more spin to the ISS propaganda machine. You havent a clue what you are talking about, let me explain why. ISS have not just sunk 500m ISK a month into the EC-P outpost, they have spent BILLIONS defending the system. For no ISK gain. Why do they do this? Because they have goals and ideals which you clearly don't understand, but which the alliance holds dear. They do it because they wish to realise their goals of opening up 0.0 to new generations of EVE players. Your point about ratting and mining is frankly rubbish. That area of Pure Blind is not claimed, ANYONE can rat in it. Also their stations do not have refinery facilities so mining is out the question. As for why they havent gone bankrupt - ISS make enough money from POS and Industrial activity to more than cover the COSTS (and they are costs) associated with running a neutral trading outpost on behalf of their shareholders. Do you understand now?
Devian 666 Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.10.18 21:18:00 - [198] Yes I understand from what you have said is that I am correct. I think the ISS strategy is effectively executed and presents a significant military threat. Alt post removed - post with your main! If this is your main, see the rules for details on how to stop your posts getting removed - Ductoris Er, you believed the people saying that I'm an alt? St
Boukharine Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.20 00:18:00 - [199] Well , that confirms what an ISS member told me yesterday - this diplomatic situation is a terrible mess no wonder ISS lets me dock in some places and shoots me in others. Please , in the interest of wandering newbies... stop messing with their minds so much.
Darth Maule Pitch Black Incorporated Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:18:00 - [200] I noticed that during my stay down in imensia region that ppl would use iss stations as a base for agressive opps.That dosent sound very neutral does it ?
Paktieth Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:12:00 - [201] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: FireFoxx80 We have such terrorists as D00M, YNC.... quite right too....EXAN are the refined,cultured members of Triumvirate.....
Xavier Cardde DarkStar 1 Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:17:00 - [202] to me this is just showing how relations in 0.0 are going to hell in a freighter sized hand-basket. its quite fascinating although I do sympathize with ISS's mission and purpose in EVE.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:35:00 - [203] Originally by: Darth Maule I noticed that during my stay down in imensia region that ppl would use iss stations as a base for agressive opps.That dosent sound very neutral does it ? If you looked up the word 'neutral' in a dictionary, you would see that it does.
Rainbow Jesus Minmatar Grief Tactics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:39:00 - [204] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Darth Maule I noticed that during my stay down in imensia region that ppl would use iss stations as a base for agressive opps.That dosent sound very neutral does it ? If you looked up the word 'neutral' in a dictionary, you would see that it does. Bitter Dog, you listen up.... WRONG! He's not stupid; he's possessed by a retarded ghost people, so pay him no mind.
splattercat Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:41:00 - [205] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Darth Maule I noticed that during my stay down in imensia region that ppl would use iss stations as a base for agressive opps.That dosent sound very neutral does it ? If you looked up the word 'neutral' in a dictionary, you would see that it does. Butter you are 100% correct on that, but haveing supplied a base of ops for hostile ppl only 4 jumps say form the allanes that run a area you ARE going to get a certan amout of bad will..... and tbh this is the min problem IMO ISS are faceing. ShadowDragon > LOL i never said "we dont log"
insanebe Caldari carebear Corp	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:20:00 - [206] to behonest this reminds me of the Bob attack on Trust because they sold capital ships to G, its a bit hypocritical for D2 to do the same to iss cos they have a buisiness deal with LV knowledge is power.... guard it well
D75485 Underworld Zombies	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:06:00 - [207] well LV gets a lot of isk of them so why not have ISS work for LV
Dutarro Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:32:00 - [208] Forgive my ignorance, but how does LV present any threat to the northern alliances? It is on the completely opposite side of the galaxy from D2, IRON, etc. How does ISS working with LV have anything to do with the North? The North's complaints against ISS to date have been rather half-baked, as if they are not being completely honest about what they want from ISS and why. Or perhaps they aren't being honest to themselves about what they want. Either way, the North would be better off formulating some specific demands and asking for them directly. ISS leadership has shown enormous flexibility and willingness to listen and accommodate. D2 and company should spell out exactly what they want and work with ISS to make it happen. *opinions stated are not necessarily those of my corporation or alliance
ace	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:32:00 - [209] I have followed this thread with interest and dissapointment especially with the current situation, I generally do not post on these topics as invariably it turns out a flamefest for all the anti ISS players who doubt our motives. I have no hidden agendas and cannot be bothered with " ISS SPIN" as some people would like to call it I say it as I see it. My remit for me since joining ISS has been to develop relationships with our local alliances and help provide 0.0 access to players so that they to can experience life out of the empire nursery Unfortunately there are a few ISS who choose to make up their own rules out of the terms agreed and with it ensure the whole organisation suffers. In all fairness D2 and IRON have not contacted me with specific problems with "rogue" members. If found guilty would be kicked. One post earlier in the thread mentioned that ISS knew RISK were setting up in Pure Blind, to you I say yes we did however, they like any other corp were given the same response as per the charter. We do not claim space and cannot prevent you from setting up operations. What you do here is your business. Another post was with regards to Outpost docking, all piots are welcome to dock but understandibly the ones who continually shoot ISS or other pilots in and around the outpost systems have docking rights revoked. Thank you for your time ACE ISS Regional Co-ordinator Pure Blind
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:58:00 - [210] Originally by: Butter Dog If you looked up the word 'neutral' in a dictionary, you would see that it does. That's bull****. One of the Hague conventions quite clearly states that neutrality means no use of the neutral parties land or facilities. Dunno where you digged your info up but there's only one authority on neutrality in armed conflicts really. IF we want to use RL analogies.
Sgt Napalm ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:53:00 - [211] Originally by: ace I have followed this thread with interest and dissapointment especially with the current situation, I generally do not post on these topics as invariably it turns out a flamefest for all the anti ISS players who doubt our motives. I have no hidden agendas and cannot be bothered with " ISS SPIN" as some people would like to call it I say it as I see it. My remit for me since joining ISS has been to develop relationships with our local alliances and help provide 0.0 access to players so that they to can experience life out of the empire nursery Unfortunately there are a few ISS who choose to make up their own rules out of the terms agreed and with it ensure the whole organisation suffers. In all fairness D2 and IRON have not contacted me with specific problems with "rogue" members. If found guilty would be kicked. One post earlier in the thread mentioned that ISS knew RISK were setting up in Pure Blind, to you I say yes we did however, they like any other corp were given the same response as per the charter. We do not claim space and cannot prevent you from setting up operations. What you do here is your business. Another post was with regards to Outpost docking, all piots are welcome to dock but understandibly the ones who continually shoot ISS or other pilots in and around the outpost systems have docking rights revoked. Thank you for your time ACE ISS Regional Co-ordinator Pure Blind /signed ace is a class-act
Metathron	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:55:00 - [212] Alt post removed - post with your main! If this is your main, see the rules for details on how to stop your posts getting removed - Serathu ([email protected])
Quetzalcoatle Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:56:00 - [213] Edited by: Quetzalcoatle on 24/10/2006 20:58:08 I'm a noob in RL Metathron's post is mine
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:19:00 - [214] Originally by: Fred0 Originally by: Butter Dog If you looked up the word 'neutral' in a dictionary, you would see that it does. That's bull****. One of the Hague conventions quite clearly states that neutrality means no use of the neutral parties land or facilities. Dunno where you digged your info up but there's only one authority on neutrality in armed conflicts really. IF we want to use RL analogies. I'm certainly NOT drawing RL analogies. You are. They do not work. I'm talking about the pure definition of the word.
El'Presedante Alcoholic White Trash	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:39:00 - [215] Originally by: Dutarro Forgive my ignorance, but how does LV present any threat to the northern alliances? It is on the completely opposite side of the galaxy from D2, IRON, etc. How does ISS working with LV have anything to do with the North? other then most of the North are enemies of LV and vice versa. I guess you are missing the whole friend of my enemy thing? or the other analogy of "thy enemy of mine enemy is mine frined." Waiting for the Next Big Target
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.10.24 23:15:00 - [216] Originally by: El'Presedante Originally by: Dutarro Forgive my ignorance, but how does LV present any threat to the northern alliances? It is on the completely opposite side of the galaxy from D2, IRON, etc. How does ISS working with LV have anything to do with the North? other then most of the North are enemies of LV and vice versa. I guess you are missing the whole friend of my enemy thing? or the other analogy of "thy enemy of mine enemy is mine frined." And they certainly do pose some kind of threat. They pirate the North fairly regularly. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Dutarro Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 23:33:00 - [217] Originally by: Verite Rendition .. they [LV] certainly do pose some kind of threat. They pirate the North fairly regularly. OK, this is a grievance that I can at least understand, you don't want to be pirated by people based out of ISS outposts in the north. Hopefully you are already in talks with ISS leaders about how this specific problem can be addressed; if not, perhaps it's time to start talking to them. *opinions stated are not necessarily those of my corporation or alliance
splattercat Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.25 01:09:00 - [218] Originally by: Dutarro Originally by: Verite Rendition .. they [LV] certainly do pose some kind of threat. They pirate the North fairly regularly. OK, this is a grievance that I can at least understand, you don't want to be pirated by people based out of ISS outposts in the north. Hopefully you are already in talks with ISS leaders about how this specific problem can be addressed; if not, perhaps it's time to start talking to them. Ok lets talk about that ( talkings good sometimes). You base in p-2 in pure blind seams to make most of its cash from hostiles attack ppl not 4 jumps away... there no good rats close, no good ore, no reasion to put it there apart from a base for ppl to use as forward ops v us. Thats where a LOT of bad ISS press comes from... things like this, i know you try to keep every one at 0 standings but you must see this makes you look bad, and when you camp with known hostiles ( ie RISK) then its going to get worse... Rightly of wrongly this will give you bad press and im pritty certan other arears in sapce have the same problems.. Address this with area standings and maybe things will get bettter. ShadowDragon > LOL i never said "we dont log"
insanebe Caldari carebear Corp	Posted - 2006.10.25 01:29:00 - [219] Edited by: insanebe on 25/10/2006 01:31:42 Edited by: insanebe on 25/10/2006 01:31:09 did you ask them not to ? probably not they don't read minds you know lol everyone should know by now iss are pos miners and as such the money the stations make comes from haulers/freighters docking at the station knowledge is power.... guard it well
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.10.25 02:31:00 - [220] Paranoid dumbasses. ---------------------------------- Real Gangsta
DeadProphet Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 03:36:00 - [221] Originally by: SaorAlba Judge for your self my audience. Does D2 not have every right to set ISS at -10? tbh for the way you spoke to him in local i'd of podded you too :)
Dutarro Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 03:57:00 - [222] You should really talk to the ISS leadership, I am just sounding off with my own opinion, but anyway here it is: Originally by: splattercat Ok lets talk about that ( talkings good sometimes). You base in p-2 in pure blind seams to make most of its cash from hostiles attack ppl not 4 jumps away... there no good rats close, no good ore, no reasion to put it there apart from a base for ppl to use as forward ops v us. Most people who use Borealis, the P-2 outpost, are ISS members members who run POSs. Yes, the ore and rats in that area are lousy compared to other 0.0 space, but the moons and ice are good enough, which are the two things most important to a POS operator. It's why our corp (KRIN) chose to move to Pure Blind. The minerals and reaction products made by POSs are bulky, which means lots of hauler trips to Borealis. Just today I've docked my hauler 5 times at Borealis, and my corp recently docked our freighter there for a fee around 3m. It's not a huge amount, but its much more ISK than the odd pirate docking his HAC once in a while. Ideally, Borealis would earn its income from ISS member corps and from northern alliance pilots coming to buy equipment, not from pirates. I have no idea how standings were determined for the pilots who are hostile to you. Again, that's something you should take up with ISS leadership, and they have shown that they are very responsive to alliance concerns, so your talks are likely to be productive. *opinions stated are not necessarily those of my corporation or alliance
arjun Viziam	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:17:00 - [223] splattercat maybe it would be good for you to think before hitting the keyboard? sometimes at least. the outpost in western pure blind is the base for the extensive pos network there.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:30:00 - [224] Originally by: Butter Dog I'm certainly NOT drawing RL analogies. You are. They do not work. I'm talking about the pure definition of the word. Elaborate, hopefully you should be able to prove how we can disregard social and linguistic conventions because we are now playing a space mmo set in a distant universe along way from here. Or just give me a reference. I'm honestly interested in finding this out even though to me it's pretty obvious the Hague Convention is the place to go to in this instance. You just took the RL analogy way out because I provided you with it.
ace Gallente angels of darkness LTD	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:26:00 - [225] I have followed this topic with interest and dissapointment with the current situation in Pure Blind. I just want to say before I comment further that I have no time for "ISS SPIN" as someone mentioned and have no hidden agenda. My remit within ISS has always been to develop relations with host alliances, assist corps to gain 0.0 access and with it experience living in low sec space. Unfortunately we like any other alliances have a minority of members who choose to work outside of the agreed rules laid down in specific regions and consequently ensure the whole of the organisation is affected, in all fairness D2,IRON,etc have not informed me of issues they have with our member corps, any that have arisen have been dealt with swiftly with the ultimate consequence to the ISS corp being kicked. I would like to extend the invitation to all Northern entities to inform me of any further "ISS" issues which you feel compromises your security. Another comment posted was that ISS knew about RISK setting up in Pure Blind, this is true and dealt with like any other corp who have asked to set up in the area which was to respond in the following manner as per our charter:- :- We do not claim space and cannot prevent you setting up operations where ISS operate. :- What you do in these systems are your business. :- Do not involve ISS in any of your activities without approval from ISS management. Another topic mentioned outpost docking rights I will say that all eve pilots are welcome to dock unles they consistantly attack ISS/non ISS pilots in and around the outpost systems. All of your comments have been noted and where relevant will be implemented in an effort to regain a working relationship in the North Thank you for your time ACE ISS Regional Co-ordinator Pure Blind ISS Regional Co-ordinator Pure Blind

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