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Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.24 11:21:00 - [481] Originally by: Ithildin Oh, FRACK. I almost forgot! Superweapon damage is fine, Tuxford! Just reduce the time-to-damage by 50% instead! The problem with Superweapons is not that it can't kill the heavily buffered battleships and command ships in one shot (this is actually a rather ridiculous idea!), the problem is that the non-buffered ships sized battlecruiser and larger has time to get away from the blast! Of course, neither the damage nor the time-to-damage change is going to alter the fact that it's useless against an aligned ship, but a non-aligned still battleship takes about 12 seconds to align and warp away. I believe the current Superweapon build-up time is 15 seconds - change this to 7 seconds. that and let a titan fit 2 superweapons so they can get the pods too --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2006.10.24 11:56:00 - [482] Does this mean ratts will defend better as well? As my main income is L4 missions, and i fly tempest with arties.....i see a problem ahead if these ratts will tank better. I got all basic gunnery at L5...a few at L4, about to start advanced...and im only able to kill the hardest BS after a long strugle....cause im doing poor dps.... I dont post this to whine....dont take me wrong..... But if the ratts will tank 50% better....ill just adapt and convert to caldari / Raven... Wont take me that long to get skills enough to do L4 missions in a Raven...as i got good basic and learning skills :D But i so much want to stay with my minnie guns....if its possible....cause i really like them :) So...anyone....will this boost on tanking be implemented on the ratts as well?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.24 12:03:00 - [483] Originally by: Jones Maloy Originally by: Ithildin Oh, FRACK. I almost forgot! Superweapon damage is fine, Tuxford! Just reduce the time-to-damage by 50% instead! The problem with Superweapons is not that it can't kill the heavily buffered battleships and command ships in one shot (this is actually a rather ridiculous idea!), the problem is that the non-buffered ships sized battlecruiser and larger has time to get away from the blast! Of course, neither the damage nor the time-to-damage change is going to alter the fact that it's useless against an aligned ship, but a non-aligned still battleship takes about 12 seconds to align and warp away. I believe the current Superweapon build-up time is 15 seconds - change this to 7 seconds. that and let a titan fit 2 superweapons so they can get the pods too (Un)fortunately, the reactivation timer is a global timer on the player, not on the module. - What am I listening to?
Galen Silas Gallente Digital assassins	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:37:00 - [484] To the peoplecomplaining about pirates, get over it, i'm a pirate and i love it, and to the people who hunt pirates, your our favorite targets :)
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:31:00 - [485] increase to extenders and plates is bad because it hurts small gang fights. Example lets say you have a 1v1 fight. Now you have twice as long to drive to the gate and warp or hit that ecm module and break there lock so that you can warp off. 5 vs 9 fight.. That b.s. that jumps into a gate camp with friends gets called primary will just drive back to the gate, wait to the last moment posisble and jump back thorugh the gate. That cruiser vs cruiser fight now takes 4 minutes which is now plenty enophe time for friends to arrive. -------- WCS change... I could live with the range penality but the resolution pentality is a bit much. I fly a recon personaly and I keep one wcs on so that I can warp off when I get outnumbered 10vs1 which seems to happen alot these days. ------- This is goign to encorage blobs and its goign to encorage even more people to do focus fire attacks.
TuRtLe HeAd The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:18:00 - [486] As long as Sentry guns get increased damage out put as well, Sentry tanking easy enough as it is in a BS. (The last 25% HP increase, The Guns still didn't do more damage.)
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:24:00 - [487] With the adapting of artilleries and nerfing of TII ammo along with the ECM changes the HP boost is starting to look like something I could enjoy. Maby the problem of cruisers being one vollied is solved and maby ceptors get a bit more survivabillitie. I still belive cap ships need more hp but then again its a step in the right direction for them The HP boost doesnt look that dark. and the 50% hp wount affect help coming in the northern regions becasue of the huge systems so hit and run is still viable. Maby down south it might be a little short time to kill anything. Now after artillery is done have a look at amarr pls :P
Telebrian Wraith	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:03:00 - [488] Everything sounds great except the WCS nerf. I think it's unnecessary - the only people who would like it are the PvP'ers and pirates who pray on those who aren't. PvP aside, it also makes things more a lot more difficult in certain agent missions where a lot of warp scrammage goes on by NPC ships.
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.25 00:19:00 - [489] Originally by: Telebrian Wraith Everything sounds great except the WCS nerf. I think it's unnecessary - the only people who would like it are the PvP'ers and pirates who pray on those who aren't. PvP aside, it also makes things more a lot more difficult in certain agent missions where a lot of warp scrammage goes on by NPC ships. I used to ( a while back :) ) run a lot of lvl 4 missions - just kill the scramblers first and it's no problem. Considering the low risk and high rewards of mission running I don't see the problem tbh. It will add a bit of spice and there's no need to fit stabs to run missions.
Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 02:48:00 - [490] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Jones Maloy that and let a titan fit 2 superweapons so they can get the pods too (Un)fortunately, the reactivation timer is a global timer on the player, not on the module. well, change that too --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec
Janey Cale Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:14:00 - [491] Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships CPU of Anathema, Helios and Cheetah increased to 280tf, 290tf and 275tf respectively bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Ship hitpoint increase, about 50% for tech 1 and about 25% on tech 2. A bit more on battlecruises/command ships and destroyers/interdictors I didn't really check it but I'll probably increase shield recharge rate by about 50% as well just to be on the safe side Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius Warp Core Stabilizers now give penalty to targeting range and scan resolution, about 50% for tech 1 Super weapon damage increased by 50% as well Shield extenders and plates increased by 50% ECM changes - I'm blogging about that one, hopefully comes later today I think this all of the stuff that is not big enought to deserve its own post. Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later. I played this game VERY actively from August '05 to July '06 (won't say who I really am). I suspended my account do to a job relocation (no time to play). Recently, I created this account to see if I wanted to get back into things. From the looks of these changes (and others, like the ice mining changes), I am glad to see that I played the game back in its "hay-day". Deja Vu: SWG <a href="http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=413476" target="_blank">WCS Nerf</a> boycott low-sec.
Cycerin Strikebeam Gallente House of Tempers	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:07:00 - [492] Are we going to have to put plates on every single ship we fly again, now?
ZERO LIBERTY	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:11:00 - [493] A BIG thanks for ya efforts Tux !!
Tek'a Rain Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:25:00 - [494] then can I have your mystery account stuff, janey? bumpy patch of road right ahead, but ya roll over, ya move on, wheels keep turning. what else could ya do, stop? Blaque or Foiritan
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:22:00 - [495] Originally by: Janey Cale Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships CPU of Anathema, Helios and Cheetah increased to 280tf, 290tf and 275tf respectively bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Ship hitpoint increase, about 50% for tech 1 and about 25% on tech 2. A bit more on battlecruises/command ships and destroyers/interdictors I didn't really check it but I'll probably increase shield recharge rate by about 50% as well just to be on the safe side Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius Warp Core Stabilizers now give penalty to targeting range and scan resolution, about 50% for tech 1 Super weapon damage increased by 50% as well Shield extenders and plates increased by 50% ECM changes - I'm blogging about that one, hopefully comes later today I think this all of the stuff that is not big enought to deserve its own post. Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later. I played this game VERY actively from August '05 to July '06 (won't say who I really am). I suspended my account do to a job relocation (no time to play). Recently, I created this account to see if I wanted to get back into things. From the looks of these changes (and others, like the ice mining changes), I am glad to see that I played the game back in its "hay-day". Deja Vu: SWG Yes, indeed. EVE is in wowification/NGE period (when it comes to balancing races in PVP) and the devs responsible for it do not seem to care. Their loss, more whine threads soonÖ to come; post-patch. Originally by: Tuxford Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums. NGE act 2.
Sara Finn Amarr Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:48:00 - [496] Tux: May I make the following suggestions to offset the WCS changes for miners: -- Have the WCS penalties scale with diminishing returns exactly the same as the Sensor Booster, so these modules cancel each other out 1 for 1. -- +1 extra mid slot for all barges (both T1 and T2). -- 50% extra targetting range for all barges. -- 50% extra sig radius for all asteroids (assuming that they have radii). -- a small increase to PG/CPU for all barges. I think that will give miners a little more breathing room for low security mining and doesn't make the barges any more powerful than they already are.
Brem Watson Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:06:00 - [497] I'm diggin' the changes.
Elodos	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:02:00 - [498] Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships CPU of Anathema, Helios and Cheetah increased to 280tf, 290tf and 275tf respectively bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Ship hitpoint increase, about 50% for tech 1 and about 25% on tech 2. A bit more on battlecruises/command ships and destroyers/interdictors I didn't really check it but I'll probably increase shield recharge rate by about 50% as well just to be on the safe side Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius Warp Core Stabilizers now give penalty to targeting range and scan resolution, about 50% for tech 1 Super weapon damage increased by 50% as well Shield extenders and plates increased by 50% ECM changes - I'm blogging about that one, hopefully comes later today I think this all of the stuff that is not big enought to deserve its own post. Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later. I am new to the game, so, while training the skills, I do some agent missions (0.7 system). this happened to me yesterday: first mish i pull send me to a 0.4 system. ok, I want to be safe, so I decline mish. pull another one, did-it. next one was another 0.4 system mish. I had the choice to do-it or decline the mish. if I decline (because it is in the 4 hours limit) I loose standings so it is not advisable. ok. accepted the mish. now, because of my safety (gate campers) I fit 2 stabs to be able to warp to mish location (giving up some damage mod and some tank). in the situation where the stabs have those mods on them .... I belive that it will be ... imposible to "enjoy" the game. any advice for this ?
Ibrich	Posted - 2006.10.26 13:51:00 - [499] Nooone will read this. But grid boost to deimos is too low. All it does is replace RCU with a PDS. Or let you fit a rig that increases grid usage. If you go with standard 5x ion, 1x nos, 1x mwd, 1x med rep setup.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.26 13:52:00 - [500] Originally by: Ibrich Nooone will read this. But grid boost to deimos is too low. All it does is replace RCU with a PDS. Or let you fit a rig that increases grid usage. If you go with standard 5x ion, 1x nos, 1x mwd, 1x med rep setup. Darn it, wrong character.
Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.27 14:44:00 - [501] Originally by: Tek'a Rain bumpy patch of road right ahead, but ya roll over, ya move on, wheels keep turning. what else could ya do, stop? if it's a cliff? yeah, you stop. wcs -> nerfed. low sec ratting -> stealth nerfed. low sec mishing -> stealthed nerfed. low sec mining -> stealth nerfed. gate sniping -> uscathed. why do people always complain about gate snipers using stabs when no-one can even get within 20km to scram them in the first place? --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.10.27 17:15:00 - [502] Originally by: Jones Maloy Originally by: Tek'a Rain bumpy patch of road right ahead, but ya roll over, ya move on, wheels keep turning. what else could ya do, stop? if it's a cliff? yeah, you stop. wcs -> nerfed. low sec ratting -> stealth nerfed. low sec mishing -> stealthed nerfed. low sec mining -> stealth nerfed. gate sniping -> uscathed. why do people always complain about gate snipers using stabs when no-one can even get within 20km to scram them in the first place? I take it you've never seen 5 stealth bombers decloak on top of a sniper and rip him to shreds. Or watched as your fleet's covert pilot sneaks close to a sniper and allows the rest of the gang to warp in at 15 from the sniper. Or seen an interdictor decloak, drop a bubble and then WMD out and recloak before the sniper knows whats going on. In low sec, snipers could run too easily, they no longer can. Because that can't fit stabs and still be able to snipe. So now it's even easier to get them. As if it wasn't easy enough already. Sure, if you are solo you aren't going to be able to engage a sniper. But if you have a few friends, it's not even hard. And the best part is, most snipers think they are safe. Because most players think like you and don't bother to use the tools that are in the game. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.27 18:32:00 - [503] Very true. I will also point out that part of the reason you have difficulty dealing with the stabbed long range sniper is the fact that it takes so long to get to him due to the distance that needs to be traveled and the extreme difficulty of getting enough ships (and points of scram) on him before he exits. With the nerf, he will have to decide if he still wants to operate at extreme range but if a single covert or stealth ship jumps him with even one 20km scram he is stuck... or if he wants the protection of the WCS but ends up being much closer (easier to get to) and has to stay on station longer to aquire lock and actually do any damage. Choices like that are what this game is all about. Its just a pleasant side effect that now mission runners and miners will have to make similar decisions when they consider the particulars of what they are trying to do and where it is.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.10.27 23:51:00 - [504] Originally by: Elodos I am new to the game, so, while training the skills, I do some agent missions (0.7 system). this happened to me yesterday: first mish i pull send me to a 0.4 system. ok, I want to be safe, so I decline mish. pull another one, did-it. next one was another 0.4 system mish. I had the choice to do-it or decline the mish. if I decline (because it is in the 4 hours limit) I loose standings so it is not advisable. ok. accepted the mish. now, because of my safety (gate campers) I fit 2 stabs to be able to warp to mish location (giving up some damage mod and some tank). in the situation where the stabs have those mods on them .... I belive that it will be ... imposible to "enjoy" the game. A few things that make running missions in LowSec pretty safe without stabs, at least for now, from somebody whose done a lot of it and never yet fitted a stab: - Make gate>>gate and safe>>gate instas in each LowSec system in your constellation with a fast ship. - Monitor Local and get to know the natives. - Use your map (ships active, ships destroyed, pods destroyed) but don't rely on it. - Move away from the deadspace beacon and watch your overview when in a mission, particularly if the area isn't "up" or "down" from the system plane. I don't think probing out missions is common yet, but it happens. - If you're flying something big, consider having a high agility travel setup with your PvE modules at a station in each LowSec system. - Consider using a smaller, more agile ship for some missions. I had huge fun running L2s in a frigate though it wasn't easy. Intys tear through L2s, and AFs do nearly as well as Battlecruisers at L3s. Also maybe you know this already, but the 4 hour restriction is based on the time between refusals. So you could have done something else for a while and then refused that mission without a standings hit. That's one of the reasons people prize stations and systems with multiple good agents. Hope some of that helps. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:17:00 - [505] "Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius" moooh... depends on the values though but considering we're sacrificing one of our biggest strengths (signature) for another lower one (speed), we frigate-preferring minnies don't really like the change. like shield extenders, it doesn't get us away from the general opinion "bigger == better" especially now, when the meager small turret damage is supposed to keep up with 50+% defenses: battles against armour tanks won't just last twice as long. instead the plain shield recharge rates throw us waaaay back
digitalwanderer Gallente The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.30 00:47:00 - [506] Edited by: digitalwanderer on 30/10/2006 00:50:29 Personally,i don't see any real problems with these changes,and this is coming from a char that does fly Amarr ships for the most part,since even with my Apoc fitted with 7 T2 mega beams,with a siege launcher and a Large armour rep with 4 hardeners and a plate,and only using the mids for 4 T2 cap rechargers,using all of those at the same time,i've never ran out of cap,ever.(stays at 40% constant in fact). The argument that they'll run out of cap is based solely that people have learned to rely on crutches,such as always having 2~3 extra damage mods fitted,even on ships that already give a rof or damage bonus to begin with,to get that fast kill,and avoid having to really train their gunnery skills high enough....Those are the only situations where cap issues on lasers can arise with the boost to HP... Can't really say anything about Arties,but i'd probably just increase the cargo bay on Minnie ships and add larger clip sizes for the guns,so there's less time wasted on reloading guns,and allows them to close in on the DOT of other comparable guns,and leave it at that.... The larger blob size argument to blow up ships isn't a convincing argument,since there's only so many that can be fielded on a fight anyhow,and most aliances don't have unlimited amounts of PvP players to commit a fight at any given time,even if the nodes could handle it without crashing...Not to say that ships won't get destroyed fast no matter what in large blobs,because they will,but the overall battle will last longer than it does now,and that's the whole point of the changes... The only difference is that each individual ship involved will sacrifice some range and overall damage,in order to make changes that allow for longer capacitor duration,no matter how long each ship actually ends up contributing to the overall battle...Missile ships still suck in larger fleet battles at longer ranges,despite the boosts to missile speeds,so they're not much of a factor in these types on engagements.
Hinik Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.30 17:01:00 - [507] Originally by: Digitix cry baby You're only saying this because you got an Eos print, if you had a Nighthawk print, like me, you wouldn't be complaining at all....
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.30 18:05:00 - [508] Quote: (Un)fortunately, the reactivation timer is a global timer on the player, not on the module. Really? So if you have 5 titan capable pilots and a titan they can just fire superweapon, jump out, next pilot hops in and fires again? That'd be really silly no?
KaMnEpo3o BENTUSI - Sons of Light	Posted - 2006.10.31 10:29:00 - [509] Originally by: Tuxford Warp Core Stabilizers now give penalty to targeting range and scan resolution, about 50% for tech 1 Bad idea for mission runners
Maximalist Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.31 15:46:00 - [510] All carebears in EVE universe praising Tuxford On a serious side: 1. WCS nerf - pretty bad solution. It still leaves possibility to fit WCS and overcome penalty for ships that have "extra" mid slots (mostly recons and some battleships). If you really want to make armed and intended to shoot at somebody ships not to fit WCS's (WCS's are for travel and not for fight) make penalty for WCS's real. Something like 40-50% penalty on effectiveness of turrets/launchers/drones/smartbombs/EW-modules for first WCS, 64-75% for second and so on and so forth. Also, in this spirit, it would be very useful to make WCS's and warp scramblers "incompatible" to fit in one ship. Another good solution is to raise fitting constraints for WCS's. Make them consume more CPU, and everybody will be happy. Industrial and transport ships still be able to fit WCS's. Fit WCS's on a warship and be ready to give up on tank/turrets/launchers. 2. 50% added hitpoints as few stated in this topic before, will simply encourage more blobbing. 3. IMO 20% agility improvement for commandships with only 25% hitpoints increase for tech2 ships makes most (if not all) HAC's obsolete. Not that I have something against this, but it seems not good to simply throw away whole class of ships. With coming EW nerf all those changes looks as intended to greatly simplify PvP. You dont need any tacklers anymore (1 warp-scrambler on a battleship will be enough), so no need for support ships, no more variations in fit for ships, no variations in tactics, just field more battleships and be happy. Hope that new features of Kali will address those issues.

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