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 Wren    |
Posted - 2003.11.09 11:06:00 -
[31] I am thinking there will be about 7 or 8 religions I can come up with, and out of those, perhaps provide about 20 total rituals in those religions. This would by no means mean that anything I say would be cannon, but instead might provide a foundation upon which others can build upon. I think of the ones I make up, 4 will be benevolent, 2 will be neutral, and 1 will be very malignant and evil. Each one will focus mostly with shamanism because in the Ray of Matar story, this seems to be the sort of dominant religion. So, wish me luck. I will be posting some of my ideas very soon. -------------------------------------------------- |
 Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2003.11.09 11:06:00 -
[32] I am thinking there will be about 7 or 8 religions I can come up with, and out of those, perhaps provide about 20 total rituals in those religions. This would by no means mean that anything I say would be cannon, but instead might provide a foundation upon which others can build upon. I think of the ones I make up, 4 will be benevolent, 2 will be neutral, and 1 will be very malignant and evil. Each one will focus mostly with shamanism because in the Ray of Matar story, this seems to be the sort of dominant religion. So, wish me luck. I will be posting some of my ideas very soon. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Kilhu Emmek |
Posted - 2003.11.19 10:53:00 -
[33] Hey Wren--VERY interested in this topic, feel free to hit me up in-game about this. I've been dying to develop something along these lines but have been hoping for "prime fiction" to come down from on high so we don't develop intricate backstories for our characters that we then need to change. You might want to look up animism as well--I know the existing fiction refers to the various tribal marks in animist ways (the bull, etc.). I imagine the Minmatar of different regions would have different beliefs ... well, if it weren't 6 AM, I'd go on and on and on. Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying. |
 Kilhu Emmek Minmatar Gradient |
Posted - 2003.11.19 10:53:00 -
[34] Hey Wren--VERY interested in this topic, feel free to hit me up in-game about this. I've been dying to develop something along these lines but have been hoping for "prime fiction" to come down from on high so we don't develop intricate backstories for our characters that we then need to change. You might want to look up animism as well--I know the existing fiction refers to the various tribal marks in animist ways (the bull, etc.). I imagine the Minmatar of different regions would have different beliefs ... well, if it weren't 6 AM, I'd go on and on and on. Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying. |
 Freekill |
Posted - 2003.12.17 14:59:00 -
[35] Edited by: Freekill on 17/12/2003 15:05:39 Family-clan-tribe you forgot the last part: Slave...We are still out there. ---------- Tomasz Zelazny Sabaoth representative to Metatron Incoporated "Honoring the past. Embracing the future" |
 Freekill Amarr Metatron Incorporated |
Posted - 2003.12.17 14:59:00 -
[36] Edited by: Freekill on 17/12/2003 15:05:39 Family-clan-tribe you forgot the last part: Slave...We are still out there. ---------- Tomasz Zelazny Sabaoth representative to Metatron Incoporated "Honoring the past. Embracing the future" |
 Tsual |
Posted - 2003.12.18 18:12:00 -
[37] For the religious part I would consider a mixture of a techno animisn (normal animism plus the mindset: "a mechanic doesn't repair a mashine he heals it"), totemism (reflecting in the tattoos), magic worldview (for example: Fetish, Warcries and superstition based on scientific facts - a pseudo scepticism) plus some Voodoo. But could be only my mistaking of the minmatars. -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
 Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2003.12.18 18:12:00 -
[38] For the religious part I would consider a mixture of a techno animisn (normal animism plus the mindset: "a mechanic doesn't repair a mashine he heals it"), totemism (reflecting in the tattoos), magic worldview (for example: Fetish, Warcries and superstition based on scientific facts - a pseudo scepticism) plus some Voodoo. But could be only my mistaking of the minmatars. Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
Hendrick |
Posted - 2003.12.19 20:37:00 -
[39] Good stuff Wren. I would like to throw something at you to get your oppinion. I see myself as an escaped slave who has lived most of his life in the Amarr Empire as a slave and his only connection to the tribal society of his ancestors were his fellow slaves. What kind of adjustments would one of these people face if they escaped, like myself and had to reintergrate into Republic society. I myself imagine, that I have a great deal of anger and having been mistreated a rather large score to settle with The Empire. I perhaps would harbor more resentment towards the Empire then say the average free Republic citizen, hence my attraction to an extremist organization like Mishfahak. How do you think other Minmitar Republic citizens view people like us who were members of these groups, as heroes or as a criminal element? Just wanted to hear your oppinions and keep the post going, very good reading.  Join the Party, I can provide the Army |
 Hendrick Minmatar Doomheim |
Posted - 2003.12.19 20:37:00 -
[40] Good stuff Wren. I would like to throw something at you to get your oppinion. I see myself as an escaped slave who has lived most of his life in the Amarr Empire as a slave and his only connection to the tribal society of his ancestors were his fellow slaves. What kind of adjustments would one of these people face if they escaped, like myself and had to reintergrate into Republic society. I myself imagine, that I have a great deal of anger and having been mistreated a rather large score to settle with The Empire. I perhaps would harbor more resentment towards the Empire then say the average free Republic citizen, hence my attraction to an extremist organization like Mishfahak. How do you think other Minmitar Republic citizens view people like us who were members of these groups, as heroes or as a criminal element? Just wanted to hear your oppinions and keep the post going, very good reading. Join the Party, I can provide the Army |
 Euthanasia |
Posted - 2003.12.23 15:40:00 -
[41] Thank you Wren for your thoughts. I happen to be a native and I can tell a few things. We manage quite well to keep our ways in the modern society. We dont make any difference between 'family' or 'clan' though - its all extended family. Choice of work does not follow the parents track any more than in any other society, but rank does - even if you choose a less attractive job. The standing of your father do affect the dealing versus other people. Well just a few words on how our tribal life works today. Someone mentioned neo-shamanism in this thread, we strongly dislike that. You friend Euthie |
 Euthanasia Borderline Industries |
Posted - 2003.12.23 15:40:00 -
[42] Thank you Wren for your thoughts. I happen to be a native and I can tell a few things. We manage quite well to keep our ways in the modern society. We dont make any difference between 'family' or 'clan' though - its all extended family. Choice of work does not follow the parents track any more than in any other society, but rank does - even if you choose a less attractive job. The standing of your father do affect the dealing versus other people. Well just a few words on how our tribal life works today. Someone mentioned neo-shamanism in this thread, we strongly dislike that. You friend Euthie |
Aran'gar |
Posted - 2003.12.27 20:05:00 -
[43] Hmm.. this is a great thread.. sorry to have not found it before. Like someone said before me, I was waiting for prime fiction to clear up some things. Then again, I hope that instead Wren and this post can help the prime fiction writers and give them some idea as to what the players that are involved in RP want and expect. The tattos of Minmatar seem to be in a certain way like the ... what's it called.. the fabric of Scottish clans uniforms, they are sometimes bound to a certain family at least. The mark you receive on the other hand is in some way random.. and caused by some sort of mixture that is seen as almost magical, at least very mystical. Another thing is that the tribes are not really living in any total harmony... there is a major struggle to just keep the Republic functioning as one body in CONCORD politics I think. In any case I think another short story is long over due from the CCP team!!! Freedom for all Join channel Minmatar for contacts. |
 Aran'gar Bleak Cabal |
Posted - 2003.12.27 20:05:00 -
[44] Hmm.. this is a great thread.. sorry to have not found it before. Like someone said before me, I was waiting for prime fiction to clear up some things. Then again, I hope that instead Wren and this post can help the prime fiction writers and give them some idea as to what the players that are involved in RP want and expect. The tattos of Minmatar seem to be in a certain way like the ... what's it called.. the fabric of Scottish clans uniforms, they are sometimes bound to a certain family at least. The mark you receive on the other hand is in some way random.. and caused by some sort of mixture that is seen as almost magical, at least very mystical. Another thing is that the tribes are not really living in any total harmony... there is a major struggle to just keep the Republic functioning as one body in CONCORD politics I think. In any case I think another short story is long over due from the CCP team!!! Freedom for all Join channel Minmatar for contacts. |
 Hasek |
Posted - 2004.01.04 07:17:00 -
[45]
kinda off topic.... but after reading some of those books u find in stores plz dont think they have any truth about how us real pagans act and belive..... |
 Hasek Hive Minerals |
Posted - 2004.01.04 07:17:00 -
[46]
kinda off topic.... but after reading some of those books u find in stores plz dont think they have any truth about how us real pagans act and belive..... |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.01.07 08:14:00 -
[47] Edited by: Wren on 07/01/2004 08:15:43 Holy crap, I took a nap and this thread got posted on! Well, holistic mechanics does sound interesting. Mechanic A: "ooooooooaaaammmmmmmmm" *smacks his back with a leafy branch and drips a thick green liquid under his tongue* Gallente Customer: "What are you doing?" Mechanic A: "Going into a trance so I can see the wounded spirit of your Thorax, ooooooohhhhhmmmmmm." *Branch thwak, drip* ---------------------------------------------- Okay, maybe not so goofy, but still interesting. Anyway, I can see now that jobs wouldn't be handed down in families, and how clans would be seen as just a natural extention to the family unit. I will have to check out books on the middle east to check for parallels with that kind of society, but really, I pictured the Minmatar as a japanese mixed with scottish type of socitety. Crazy as that sounds. I figured the criminal people of the minmatar to be like the Yakuza mixed with the Irish mob! So, perhaps I just need to quit thinking in earth type of themes and expand my mind. Let's get more discussion please, so help me 'break open my skull'. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.01.07 08:14:00 -
[48] Edited by: Wren on 07/01/2004 08:15:43 Holy crap, I took a nap and this thread got posted on! Well, holistic mechanics does sound interesting. Mechanic A: "ooooooooaaaammmmmmmmm" *smacks his back with a leafy branch and drips a thick green liquid under his tongue* Gallente Customer: "What are you doing?" Mechanic A: "Going into a trance so I can see the wounded spirit of your Thorax, ooooooohhhhhmmmmmm." *Branch thwak, drip* ---------------------------------------------- Okay, maybe not so goofy, but still interesting. Anyway, I can see now that jobs wouldn't be handed down in families, and how clans would be seen as just a natural extention to the family unit. I will have to check out books on the middle east to check for parallels with that kind of society, but really, I pictured the Minmatar as a japanese mixed with scottish type of socitety. Crazy as that sounds. I figured the criminal people of the minmatar to be like the Yakuza mixed with the Irish mob! So, perhaps I just need to quit thinking in earth type of themes and expand my mind. Let's get more discussion please, so help me 'break open my skull'. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Darodem |
Posted - 2004.01.08 05:10:00 -
[49] /emote cringes at being called old school This is a huge topic because we need to deal with a whole bigger than global culture. So I am certain that we should discuss things in terms of a spectrum of behaviours and break off pieces. Keep in mind alot of overlap happens blending political organization with religious tradition tribal organization etc. Holistic is a concept that, for me, seems to resonate from the other replys. To take stuff from the real world and reflect it in the ideas of the Minmatar is a good way to approach things I think. There are certain things we need to accomplish: High tech - mechanistically understood and kept simple yet effective. Religious tradition - early white americans used to go to camp in the spring, each family keeping a small cabin in a grouping of cabins where folks would gather for two or three weeks a year to live the simple life, American indians had huge gatherings annually what comes to mind are the Cherokee and Chickasaw - the braves would meet and play a wicked game of lacrosse to decide who got first pick of shared farm land. Of course eastern traditions can inform us, the Shaolin tradition in China can be transmuted to technical school for a technical class. There is lots more than this and we should break it up into pieces. Organized crime - this is much more problematic to describe, since organizations like this are very dynamic and have echos in other facets of self organizing groups. Tribal - spectrum from simple legal designation all the way to a paternal cult like design Keep in mind that Minmatar are just as technically savvy, we are well fed and generally rich but we are also culturally beheaded, the Ammatars took the most educated and capitalized part of our society about 1000 years ago. The parallels can again be extended to post revolution American culture, we kicked out the royals, we organize into family clans, tribal clans, race oriented collectives or even corporate enclaves but we are urbanizing, education is largely vocational yet all or most possibilities exist, world spanning corporations (Dutch East India company as an example) can effect our politics and culture. |
 Darodem Minmatar STK Scientific |
Posted - 2004.01.08 05:10:00 -
[50] /emote cringes at being called old school This is a huge topic because we need to deal with a whole bigger than global culture. So I am certain that we should discuss things in terms of a spectrum of behaviours and break off pieces. Keep in mind alot of overlap happens blending political organization with religious tradition tribal organization etc. Holistic is a concept that, for me, seems to resonate from the other replys. To take stuff from the real world and reflect it in the ideas of the Minmatar is a good way to approach things I think. There are certain things we need to accomplish: High tech - mechanistically understood and kept simple yet effective. Religious tradition - early white americans used to go to camp in the spring, each family keeping a small cabin in a grouping of cabins where folks would gather for two or three weeks a year to live the simple life, American indians had huge gatherings annually what comes to mind are the Cherokee and Chickasaw - the braves would meet and play a wicked game of lacrosse to decide who got first pick of shared farm land. Of course eastern traditions can inform us, the Shaolin tradition in China can be transmuted to technical school for a technical class. There is lots more than this and we should break it up into pieces. Organized crime - this is much more problematic to describe, since organizations like this are very dynamic and have echos in other facets of self organizing groups. Tribal - spectrum from simple legal designation all the way to a paternal cult like design Keep in mind that Minmatar are just as technically savvy, we are well fed and generally rich but we are also culturally beheaded, the Ammatars took the most educated and capitalized part of our society about 1000 years ago. The parallels can again be extended to post revolution American culture, we kicked out the royals, we organize into family clans, tribal clans, race oriented collectives or even corporate enclaves but we are urbanizing, education is largely vocational yet all or most possibilities exist, world spanning corporations (Dutch East India company as an example) can effect our politics and culture. |
 Shintoko Akahoshi |
Posted - 2004.01.08 07:54:00 -
[51]
I think you're on the right track here. Look into the way Arab extended families operate, for instance. I personally don't think it's crazy to adopt aspects of various cultures like you mention. We're talking about an entire planet, after all, with various distinct tribes living on it. What would be strange would be if they weren't very different from one another. As far as the organized crime thing goes, too, you might want to look at crime in scotland after the battle of Culloden. My RL in-laws clan in america, for instance, was formed almost entirely out of highway robbers who were given the choice between death and being sent to america. It wasn't a very organized sort of crime. Rather it was a bunch of like-minded people acting more or less independently. There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
 Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis |
Posted - 2004.01.08 07:54:00 -
[52]
I think you're on the right track here. Look into the way Arab extended families operate, for instance. I personally don't think it's crazy to adopt aspects of various cultures like you mention. We're talking about an entire planet, after all, with various distinct tribes living on it. What would be strange would be if they weren't very different from one another. As far as the organized crime thing goes, too, you might want to look at crime in scotland after the battle of Culloden. My RL in-laws clan in america, for instance, was formed almost entirely out of highway robbers who were given the choice between death and being sent to america. It wasn't a very organized sort of crime. Rather it was a bunch of like-minded people acting more or less independently. Omerta Syndicate Biotechnical Research |
 Wren |
Posted - 2004.01.08 12:13:00 -
[53] Edited by: Wren on 08/01/2004 12:17:18 Edited by: Wren on 08/01/2004 12:14:28 Based on the not old school Darodem's suggestion, we will try and break this down into managable chunks. Further, I think we should only work on the Sebiestor and Brutor tribes. This is because it will simply things greatly.
-------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.01.08 12:13:00 -
[54] Edited by: Wren on 08/01/2004 12:17:18 Edited by: Wren on 08/01/2004 12:14:28 Based on the not old school Darodem's suggestion, we will try and break this down into managable chunks. Further, I think we should only work on the Sebiestor and Brutor tribes. This is because it will simply things greatly.
----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.01.08 12:30:00 -
[55]
Lets keep this going please, the more we do, the better we can role play i think. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.01.08 12:30:00 -
[56]
Lets keep this going please, the more we do, the better we can role play i think. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Wren |
Posted - 2004.01.20 10:32:00 -
[57] I was thinking last night, with help from someone I was talking to (you know who you are, don't ya?) and the subject of rituals came up, especially one which would serve a purpose in altering social patterns and structures. Say a tribe had rituals that would ensure that all children would be conceived in a few days apart from all the other children. This would then mean that they would be born close to the same time. In this way, the mothers could all share responsibilities as they raised the children communally. This would also lead to a more streamlined educational and training system, as all of the kids would be near the same age. This would help a small community; say a few hundred at the most, wouldn't you think? As an entire generation would be able to be trained at once, and then later train the next generation? Also, what about the drugs? What kinds of effects would, could and should have places within the tribal community? Don't you think that there would be conscious expanding drugs for creating visions that could be interpreted by wise men to learn things about the individual or about the community? What about aggression or alertness enhancing drugs which could be used before fights or hunts to further increase the effectiveness? Anyway, just a few more ideas thrown out to see what sticks on the wall. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.01.20 10:32:00 -
[58] I was thinking last night, with help from someone I was talking to (you know who you are, don't ya?) and the subject of rituals came up, especially one which would serve a purpose in altering social patterns and structures. Say a tribe had rituals that would ensure that all children would be conceived in a few days apart from all the other children. This would then mean that they would be born close to the same time. In this way, the mothers could all share responsibilities as they raised the children communally. This would also lead to a more streamlined educational and training system, as all of the kids would be near the same age. This would help a small community; say a few hundred at the most, wouldn't you think? As an entire generation would be able to be trained at once, and then later train the next generation? Also, what about the drugs? What kinds of effects would, could and should have places within the tribal community? Don't you think that there would be conscious expanding drugs for creating visions that could be interpreted by wise men to learn things about the individual or about the community? What about aggression or alertness enhancing drugs which could be used before fights or hunts to further increase the effectiveness? Anyway, just a few more ideas thrown out to see what sticks on the wall. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Tsual |
Posted - 2004.01.21 20:38:00 -
[59] Edited by: Tsual on 21/01/2004 21:02:20 I myself thought a bit about nomade society: I myself interpret it's body rather tribe - clan - pack - family. 1)Family is not to be said the smallest but genetical the closest unit of a society. 2)Pack several people traveling around in a more or lesss organized group, having several if not all proffesions among them to survive: Hunters, warriors, scouts, workers, builders, mechnanic, leader(,shaman). The smallest social unit of a nomade society. Packs can be divided into sub-packs(people with the same profession) every sub pack has a leader but every sub-pack leader is subordinate of the pack leader. A settled pack would become a village 3)A Family can be a pack, but a pack is not necessary a family. 4)Clan: a union of political like minded packs (more or less loosen) Maybe this is the reason why minmatar politic has a crucial problem with extending above the clan level: if a packs politic divergents from the clans politic the pack changes to a clan suiting their politic better. (Taking my definition we could say all the freedom fighter corporations form a clan and Oracle, PFM, Matari Backbone(to name some) are the packs of the clan.) 5)Tribe the union of several clans due to genetical, historical and local reason. The tribe however is not more then a very loosen political union. Maybe a great meeting of the tribes clan chiefs had been taking place once a year in ancient times. Then political problems would be discussed between the men leaders (and between the women leaders) and in the end several arrangments were made lasting till the next great meeting. Over the whole meeting, families would arrange marriage of there teenage childs. In the end shamans would perform a ritual or something like that. My two Isk cent. -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2004.01.21 20:38:00 -
[60] Edited by: Tsual on 21/01/2004 21:02:20 I myself thought a bit about nomade society: I myself interpret it's body rather tribe - clan - pack - family. 1)Family is not to be said the smallest but genetical the closest unit of a society. 2)Pack several people traveling around in a more or lesss organized group, having several if not all proffesions among them to survive: Hunters, warriors, scouts, workers, builders, mechnanic, leader(,shaman). The smallest social unit of a nomade society. Packs can be divided into sub-packs(people with the same profession) every sub pack has a leader but every sub-pack leader is subordinate of the pack leader. A settled pack would become a village 3)A Family can be a pack, but a pack is not necessary a family. 4)Clan: a union of political like minded packs (more or less loosen) Maybe this is the reason why minmatar politic has a crucial problem with extending above the clan level: if a packs politic divergents from the clans politic the pack changes to a clan suiting their politic better. (Taking my definition we could say all the freedom fighter corporations form a clan and Oracle, PFM, Matari Backbone(to name some) are the packs of the clan.) 5)Tribe the union of several clans due to genetical, historical and local reason. The tribe however is not more then a very loosen political union. Maybe a great meeting of the tribes clan chiefs had been taking place once a year in ancient times. Then political problems would be discussed between the men leaders (and between the women leaders) and in the end several arrangments were made lasting till the next great meeting. Over the whole meeting, families would arrange marriage of there teenage childs. In the end shamans would perform a ritual or something like that. My two Isk cent. Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
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