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 Wren    |
Posted - 2003.11.02 15:21:00 -
[1] This is for discussion on what sort of clan and tribal customs would survive in an urban and modern society. How does the actual social structure and government of the Minmatar traditionalist affect his or her daily life? Of course this is up to the individual, but for the sake of argument let us assume three things. The person has participated in the Voluval and has not received a banning or an exceptionally good mark. The person attends 80% of the tribal or clan social functions. The person is in a relatively large clan within the Sebeiestor or Brutor Tribes. I perceive a mostly eastern philosophy where clan leaders are born into their position, but not by their parents, instead, these positions are theirs by the act of the Voluval. The background information provided suggests that certain families frequently receive the same mark during the Voluval, but this is not guaranteed. This could mean someone outside of the usual leadership family could be the next to lead the Clan. Hmmm, I might as well explain my views on the way that the clan system works. Family û the smallest part of a Tribe. Clan û a collection of families who live together and provide certain services for the Tribe. Tribe û a collection of Clans that together provide all the services that one needs to survive. So, what we are looking at is not to far off from real life. If your father is a doctor, you might become a doctor. If your father is a mechanic, you might be a mechanic. However, if your mark received from the Voluval suggests that you should not be a mechanic and instead be a doctor, then the Tribe makes sure you receive the training to be a doctor. What I donÆt have a full grasp on is how ritualistic tribal gatherings would play a part. Is it just a form of recreation and entertainment mixed with religion sort of like football with a twist of baptism? Any suggestions or ideas here would be great. Thanks for any comments that might help round out the Minmatar people. -------------------------------------------------- |
 Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2003.11.02 15:21:00 -
[2] This is for discussion on what sort of clan and tribal customs would survive in an urban and modern society. How does the actual social structure and government of the Minmatar traditionalist affect his or her daily life? Of course this is up to the individual, but for the sake of argument let us assume three things. The person has participated in the Voluval and has not received a banning or an exceptionally good mark. The person attends 80% of the tribal or clan social functions. The person is in a relatively large clan within the Sebeiestor or Brutor Tribes. I perceive a mostly eastern philosophy where clan leaders are born into their position, but not by their parents, instead, these positions are theirs by the act of the Voluval. The background information provided suggests that certain families frequently receive the same mark during the Voluval, but this is not guaranteed. This could mean someone outside of the usual leadership family could be the next to lead the Clan. Hmmm, I might as well explain my views on the way that the clan system works. Family û the smallest part of a Tribe. Clan û a collection of families who live together and provide certain services for the Tribe. Tribe û a collection of Clans that together provide all the services that one needs to survive. So, what we are looking at is not to far off from real life. If your father is a doctor, you might become a doctor. If your father is a mechanic, you might be a mechanic. However, if your mark received from the Voluval suggests that you should not be a mechanic and instead be a doctor, then the Tribe makes sure you receive the training to be a doctor. What I donÆt have a full grasp on is how ritualistic tribal gatherings would play a part. Is it just a form of recreation and entertainment mixed with religion sort of like football with a twist of baptism? Any suggestions or ideas here would be great. Thanks for any comments that might help round out the Minmatar people. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Wren |
Posted - 2003.11.04 11:09:00 -
[3] I guess no one cares. >=/ -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2003.11.04 11:09:00 -
[4] I guess no one cares. >=/ ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Vel Kyri |
Posted - 2003.11.04 13:31:00 -
[5] Edited by: Vel Kyri on 04/11/2003 13:31:44 Sorry - yes i think its good that you are thinking about these things :) I have to say, i like the increasing RP - storytelling happenings. I have the same problem with my Amarr discussion... <shrug> ----- |
 Vel Kyri Carebears need to die |
Posted - 2003.11.04 13:31:00 -
[6] Edited by: Vel Kyri on 04/11/2003 13:31:44 Sorry - yes i think its good that you are thinking about these things :) I have to say, i like the increasing RP - storytelling happenings. I have the same problem with my Amarr discussion... <shrug> |
 Wren |
Posted - 2003.11.04 14:15:00 -
[7] It's my job in Oracle to "kick up" the RP dust and get things moving. This job is a rotating position often shared by many Oracle people. We have a few very strong rp minded folks in Oracle, and one of the best is Sarkos, next is Jubedei and Dirtybones. Maybe they just don't know about this one. Hopefully, Darodem or other "old school" rpers will see it soon. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2003.11.04 14:15:00 -
[8] It's my job in Oracle to "kick up" the RP dust and get things moving. This job is a rotating position often shared by many Oracle people. We have a few very strong rp minded folks in Oracle, and one of the best is Sarkos, next is Jubedei and Dirtybones. Maybe they just don't know about this one. Hopefully, Darodem or other "old school" rpers will see it soon. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Vel Kyri |
Posted - 2003.11.04 14:19:00 -
[9] Wren - and any other RPers - it would eb good if we could discuss things and get stories flowing out there again :) fleshing out the cultures of Eve ----- |
Vel Kyri Carebears need to die |
Posted - 2003.11.04 14:19:00 -
[10] Wren - and any other RPers - it would eb good if we could discuss things and get stories flowing out there again :) fleshing out the cultures of Eve |
Discorporation |
Posted - 2003.11.04 16:01:00 -
[11] Hm. Perhaps it would be good to look for documents on shamanism and neo-shamanisn, Wren. Perhaps they can help you further. (btw, Vel and wren, great initiatives) [Heterocephalus glaber] |
 Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2003.11.04 16:01:00 -
[12] Hm. Perhaps it would be good to look for documents on shamanism and neo-shamanisn, Wren. Perhaps they can help you further. (btw, Vel and wren, great initiatives) |
Wren |
Posted - 2003.11.05 06:42:00 -
[13] I just requested: Contemporary Shamanism Urban Paganism Complete guide to Runes Jeet Kun Do from the library. I expect that Minmatar religion is as varied and eclectic as our world. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2003.11.05 06:42:00 -
[14] I just requested: Contemporary Shamanism Urban Paganism Complete guide to Runes Jeet Kun Do from the library. I expect that Minmatar religion is as varied and eclectic as our world. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Discorporation |
Posted - 2003.11.05 09:25:00 -
[15] Reading works by Phil Hine (and to a lesser extent Liber Null & Psychonaut) would give you an insight how shamanistic rituals might 'evolve' over time. It's all very fluffy and 'occult', but it could help ya loads. (Don't go to the library for that, get the .pdfs online) [Heterocephalus glaber] |
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2003.11.05 09:25:00 -
[16] Reading works by Phil Hine (and to a lesser extent Liber Null & Psychonaut) would give you an insight how shamanistic rituals might 'evolve' over time. It's all very fluffy and 'occult', but it could help ya loads. (Don't go to the library for that, get the .pdfs online) |
Shintoko Akahoshi |
Posted - 2003.11.07 08:06:00 -
[17] Interesting topic, Wren. The interesting thing about the Minmatar is that the importance of the tribe is strong enough that tribal structure was retained all the way into the space age (it always amuses me when some people compare the Minmatars to savages, since they had achieved space flight on a scale that allowed them to colonize other planets before they encountered the Amarr). That suggests two things to me: tribal culture is important to the average Minmatar (and not just window dressing); and it is flexible enough that the seven very different major tribes were able to band together in spite of retaining their distinct tribal identity and government. There isn't really a RL equivalent of this. Most tribal and clannish cultures haven't survived well into the modern age. You can argue, though, that this has more to do with historical imperialism than cultural failings. While there are attempts to reconstruct this culture, all the examples of it are fairly artificial still (since they are still being "reconstructed"). Likewise I think it's a mistake to look at modern shamanism and neo-paganism because they're both artificially constructed and artificially concentrated. A modern day shaman knows that they live in a culture that isn't based on their beliefs, and doesn't really hold with them either. This makes their particular shamanistic culture behave like an enclave within an alien culture (which it is), where the members take pains to establish their own cultural identity because it is such a fragile thing in the larger world. I'm not sure how things would work within a tribe. Some are probably very ritualistic with distinct cultures, while others would probably be more concerned with preserving their own identity with regards to tribal history. Good examples would be American Indian tribes before European contact, when they were very culturally diverse, and modern day Scottish clans (which are culturally similar and mostly concerned with clan history - you could say that Scottish history is based on remembering old betrayals and vendettas). Between the tribes, however, you'd have to have some sort of periodical social contact to bond the tribes together. If the different tribes have different religions, those religions would have to be (at least somewhat) tolerant with each other. If they were tolerant, then the gatherings could have religious overtones. If they weren't, then the gatherings would probably not have religious aspects at all. These gatherings would have had to exist long before the Minmatar and the Amarr met. They would have had to exist long before the Minmatar developed space flight. From the background material, it seems that the Minmatar are blessed with a homeworld both large enough and rich enough that the tribes are able to coexist without having to compete very strongly. This probably eases contact and interaction between the tribes, but they still would have to have something to make them willing to trust each other and work together. Late as it is as I write this, and incoherent as my mind is right now, the most likely thing I can think of that would facilitate that sort of friendship and trust would be large scale, frequent parties. There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
 Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis |
Posted - 2003.11.07 08:06:00 -
[18] Interesting topic, Wren. The interesting thing about the Minmatar is that the importance of the tribe is strong enough that tribal structure was retained all the way into the space age (it always amuses me when some people compare the Minmatars to savages, since they had achieved space flight on a scale that allowed them to colonize other planets before they encountered the Amarr). That suggests two things to me: tribal culture is important to the average Minmatar (and not just window dressing); and it is flexible enough that the seven very different major tribes were able to band together in spite of retaining their distinct tribal identity and government. There isn't really a RL equivalent of this. Most tribal and clannish cultures haven't survived well into the modern age. You can argue, though, that this has more to do with historical imperialism than cultural failings. While there are attempts to reconstruct this culture, all the examples of it are fairly artificial still (since they are still being "reconstructed"). Likewise I think it's a mistake to look at modern shamanism and neo-paganism because they're both artificially constructed and artificially concentrated. A modern day shaman knows that they live in a culture that isn't based on their beliefs, and doesn't really hold with them either. This makes their particular shamanistic culture behave like an enclave within an alien culture (which it is), where the members take pains to establish their own cultural identity because it is such a fragile thing in the larger world. I'm not sure how things would work within a tribe. Some are probably very ritualistic with distinct cultures, while others would probably be more concerned with preserving their own identity with regards to tribal history. Good examples would be American Indian tribes before European contact, when they were very culturally diverse, and modern day Scottish clans (which are culturally similar and mostly concerned with clan history - you could say that Scottish history is based on remembering old betrayals and vendettas). Between the tribes, however, you'd have to have some sort of periodical social contact to bond the tribes together. If the different tribes have different religions, those religions would have to be (at least somewhat) tolerant with each other. If they were tolerant, then the gatherings could have religious overtones. If they weren't, then the gatherings would probably not have religious aspects at all. These gatherings would have had to exist long before the Minmatar and the Amarr met. They would have had to exist long before the Minmatar developed space flight. From the background material, it seems that the Minmatar are blessed with a homeworld both large enough and rich enough that the tribes are able to coexist without having to compete very strongly. This probably eases contact and interaction between the tribes, but they still would have to have something to make them willing to trust each other and work together. Late as it is as I write this, and incoherent as my mind is right now, the most likely thing I can think of that would facilitate that sort of friendship and trust would be large scale, frequent parties. Omerta Syndicate Biotechnical Research |
Hodokie Seek |
Posted - 2003.11.07 19:07:00 -
[19] This may be a little out of place here or possibly misread the post, but maybe the Mouslim society would be the closest example of what the Minmatar society may be like. These are modern cultures yet entrenched in deep religous and trible customs. Like I said, not sure if I read the post right or not. On the RP aspect, I sure with I met more RP'ers in game, really kind of miss that. __________________________________________
|
 Hodokie Seek Gallente Old Farts Drinking Club |
Posted - 2003.11.07 19:07:00 -
[20] This may be a little out of place here or possibly misread the post, but maybe the Mouslim society would be the closest example of what the Minmatar society may be like. These are modern cultures yet entrenched in deep religous and trible customs. Like I said, not sure if I read the post right or not. On the RP aspect, I sure with I met more RP'ers in game, really kind of miss that. __________________________________________
|
 Dar Torn |
Posted - 2003.11.07 23:47:00 -
[21] I view the Minmatar race to be like the Native Americans. I think it fits closely to want you see aswell, Wren. I also like the idea of a hunt to prove manhood or membership in our case. I would love to start Tourneys for minmatar to fight in. My only wall is dong it in high sec space. |
 Dar Torn Minmatar Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2003.11.07 23:47:00 -
[22] I view the Minmatar race to be like the Native Americans. I think it fits closely to want you see aswell, Wren. I also like the idea of a hunt to prove manhood or membership in our case. I would love to start Tourneys for minmatar to fight in. My only wall is dong it in high sec space. |
 Hodokie Seek |
Posted - 2003.11.08 03:16:00 -
[23] Think I am missing somthing, I still do not see how the religous aspect of the culture of the Native American parallels the Native American culture. Though I am Intaki, I am interested in the comparison. __________________________________________
|
Hodokie Seek Gallente Old Farts Drinking Club |
Posted - 2003.11.08 03:16:00 -
[24] Think I am missing somthing, I still do not see how the religous aspect of the culture of the Native American parallels the Native American culture. Though I am Intaki, I am interested in the comparison. __________________________________________
|
Shintoko Akahoshi |
Posted - 2003.11.08 07:29:00 -
[25] I think it's a mistake to over-generalize Minmatar culture that way, Dar. I don't think that the various tribes have similar rituals or religions. I don't think that they have blended that way. Look at the description of the tribes, and their appearances. It's obvious that there isn't a lot of interbreeding going on, and their tribal cultures are also pretty distinct. Instead of trying to find singular cultures or culture-types and assigning them to all Minmatar, why not try and come up with unique cultures for each tribe. Why not make them as different as Quilleute Indians are from Scots. Look at how different two cultures can be that are nestled right next to each other. Sure the Spanish and the Basque share some aspects of culture, just as the major Minmatar tribes share things like the Voluval. What makes them (Spanish and Basque) interesting is how many ways the cultures differ from one another. Minmatar tribes should be the same. After all, people have lived on Pator for millennia developing their own cultures. Minmatars have kept their tribal distinction through a long and tumultuous modern period. They're practically crying out to be made distinct. There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis |
Posted - 2003.11.08 07:29:00 -
[26] I think it's a mistake to over-generalize Minmatar culture that way, Dar. I don't think that the various tribes have similar rituals or religions. I don't think that they have blended that way. Look at the description of the tribes, and their appearances. It's obvious that there isn't a lot of interbreeding going on, and their tribal cultures are also pretty distinct. Instead of trying to find singular cultures or culture-types and assigning them to all Minmatar, why not try and come up with unique cultures for each tribe. Why not make them as different as Quilleute Indians are from Scots. Look at how different two cultures can be that are nestled right next to each other. Sure the Spanish and the Basque share some aspects of culture, just as the major Minmatar tribes share things like the Voluval. What makes them (Spanish and Basque) interesting is how many ways the cultures differ from one another. Minmatar tribes should be the same. After all, people have lived on Pator for millennia developing their own cultures. Minmatars have kept their tribal distinction through a long and tumultuous modern period. They're practically crying out to be made distinct. Omerta Syndicate Biotechnical Research |
Wren |
Posted - 2003.11.08 20:32:00 -
[27] Okay, thanks for the input all. Here is what I have so far. Shamanism is using trances to effect the spiritual world, or to investigate events in your personal life, or to find stuff out that might help or prevent danger for your tribe/clan. The use of hallucinogenic drugs may or may not be involved, but most shamans use and prescribe the drugs to the individuals in a ritualistic ceremony. This kind of practice could be as varied as the drugs involved, from simple, peaceful rituals to vicious and malignant. Well, when I read up on runes I will add my findings, but eventually, we just have to make a break and make the customs and religions EVE-like. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2003.11.08 20:32:00 -
[28] Okay, thanks for the input all. Here is what I have so far. Shamanism is using trances to effect the spiritual world, or to investigate events in your personal life, or to find stuff out that might help or prevent danger for your tribe/clan. The use of hallucinogenic drugs may or may not be involved, but most shamans use and prescribe the drugs to the individuals in a ritualistic ceremony. This kind of practice could be as varied as the drugs involved, from simple, peaceful rituals to vicious and malignant. Well, when I read up on runes I will add my findings, but eventually, we just have to make a break and make the customs and religions EVE-like. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Vel Kyri |
Posted - 2003.11.09 10:06:00 -
[29] I would tend to say that the path you are going is a good one. Eve seems to be "Through the looking glass" versions of today's world. take things from known cultures that seem close to what you want, and then mangle them to make them unique in Eve. If there is some familiarity then it becomes easier to roleplay and understand - build from what is known/familiar then play with it :) best of luck! ----- |
Vel Kyri Carebears need to die |
Posted - 2003.11.09 10:06:00 -
[30] I would tend to say that the path you are going is a good one. Eve seems to be "Through the looking glass" versions of today's world. take things from known cultures that seem close to what you want, and then mangle them to make them unique in Eve. If there is some familiarity then it becomes easier to roleplay and understand - build from what is known/familiar then play with it :) best of luck! |
 Wren |
Posted - 2003.11.09 11:06:00 -
[31] I am thinking there will be about 7 or 8 religions I can come up with, and out of those, perhaps provide about 20 total rituals in those religions. This would by no means mean that anything I say would be cannon, but instead might provide a foundation upon which others can build upon. I think of the ones I make up, 4 will be benevolent, 2 will be neutral, and 1 will be very malignant and evil. Each one will focus mostly with shamanism because in the Ray of Matar story, this seems to be the sort of dominant religion. So, wish me luck. I will be posting some of my ideas very soon. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2003.11.09 11:06:00 -
[32] I am thinking there will be about 7 or 8 religions I can come up with, and out of those, perhaps provide about 20 total rituals in those religions. This would by no means mean that anything I say would be cannon, but instead might provide a foundation upon which others can build upon. I think of the ones I make up, 4 will be benevolent, 2 will be neutral, and 1 will be very malignant and evil. Each one will focus mostly with shamanism because in the Ray of Matar story, this seems to be the sort of dominant religion. So, wish me luck. I will be posting some of my ideas very soon. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Kilhu Emmek |
Posted - 2003.11.19 10:53:00 -
[33] Hey Wren--VERY interested in this topic, feel free to hit me up in-game about this. I've been dying to develop something along these lines but have been hoping for "prime fiction" to come down from on high so we don't develop intricate backstories for our characters that we then need to change. You might want to look up animism as well--I know the existing fiction refers to the various tribal marks in animist ways (the bull, etc.). I imagine the Minmatar of different regions would have different beliefs ... well, if it weren't 6 AM, I'd go on and on and on. Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying. |
 Kilhu Emmek Minmatar Gradient |
Posted - 2003.11.19 10:53:00 -
[34] Hey Wren--VERY interested in this topic, feel free to hit me up in-game about this. I've been dying to develop something along these lines but have been hoping for "prime fiction" to come down from on high so we don't develop intricate backstories for our characters that we then need to change. You might want to look up animism as well--I know the existing fiction refers to the various tribal marks in animist ways (the bull, etc.). I imagine the Minmatar of different regions would have different beliefs ... well, if it weren't 6 AM, I'd go on and on and on. Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying. |
Freekill |
Posted - 2003.12.17 14:59:00 -
[35] Edited by: Freekill on 17/12/2003 15:05:39 Family-clan-tribe you forgot the last part: Slave...We are still out there. ---------- Tomasz Zelazny Sabaoth representative to Metatron Incoporated "Honoring the past. Embracing the future" |
 Freekill Amarr Metatron Incorporated |
Posted - 2003.12.17 14:59:00 -
[36] Edited by: Freekill on 17/12/2003 15:05:39 Family-clan-tribe you forgot the last part: Slave...We are still out there. ---------- Tomasz Zelazny Sabaoth representative to Metatron Incoporated "Honoring the past. Embracing the future" |
 Tsual |
Posted - 2003.12.18 18:12:00 -
[37] For the religious part I would consider a mixture of a techno animisn (normal animism plus the mindset: "a mechanic doesn't repair a mashine he heals it"), totemism (reflecting in the tattoos), magic worldview (for example: Fetish, Warcries and superstition based on scientific facts - a pseudo scepticism) plus some Voodoo. But could be only my mistaking of the minmatars. -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
 Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2003.12.18 18:12:00 -
[38] For the religious part I would consider a mixture of a techno animisn (normal animism plus the mindset: "a mechanic doesn't repair a mashine he heals it"), totemism (reflecting in the tattoos), magic worldview (for example: Fetish, Warcries and superstition based on scientific facts - a pseudo scepticism) plus some Voodoo. But could be only my mistaking of the minmatars. Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
Hendrick |
Posted - 2003.12.19 20:37:00 -
[39] Good stuff Wren. I would like to throw something at you to get your oppinion. I see myself as an escaped slave who has lived most of his life in the Amarr Empire as a slave and his only connection to the tribal society of his ancestors were his fellow slaves. What kind of adjustments would one of these people face if they escaped, like myself and had to reintergrate into Republic society. I myself imagine, that I have a great deal of anger and having been mistreated a rather large score to settle with The Empire. I perhaps would harbor more resentment towards the Empire then say the average free Republic citizen, hence my attraction to an extremist organization like Mishfahak. How do you think other Minmitar Republic citizens view people like us who were members of these groups, as heroes or as a criminal element? Just wanted to hear your oppinions and keep the post going, very good reading.  Join the Party, I can provide the Army |
 Hendrick Minmatar Doomheim |
Posted - 2003.12.19 20:37:00 -
[40] Good stuff Wren. I would like to throw something at you to get your oppinion. I see myself as an escaped slave who has lived most of his life in the Amarr Empire as a slave and his only connection to the tribal society of his ancestors were his fellow slaves. What kind of adjustments would one of these people face if they escaped, like myself and had to reintergrate into Republic society. I myself imagine, that I have a great deal of anger and having been mistreated a rather large score to settle with The Empire. I perhaps would harbor more resentment towards the Empire then say the average free Republic citizen, hence my attraction to an extremist organization like Mishfahak. How do you think other Minmitar Republic citizens view people like us who were members of these groups, as heroes or as a criminal element? Just wanted to hear your oppinions and keep the post going, very good reading. Join the Party, I can provide the Army |
Euthanasia |
Posted - 2003.12.23 15:40:00 -
[41] Thank you Wren for your thoughts. I happen to be a native and I can tell a few things. We manage quite well to keep our ways in the modern society. We dont make any difference between 'family' or 'clan' though - its all extended family. Choice of work does not follow the parents track any more than in any other society, but rank does - even if you choose a less attractive job. The standing of your father do affect the dealing versus other people. Well just a few words on how our tribal life works today. Someone mentioned neo-shamanism in this thread, we strongly dislike that. You friend Euthie |
 Euthanasia Borderline Industries |
Posted - 2003.12.23 15:40:00 -
[42] Thank you Wren for your thoughts. I happen to be a native and I can tell a few things. We manage quite well to keep our ways in the modern society. We dont make any difference between 'family' or 'clan' though - its all extended family. Choice of work does not follow the parents track any more than in any other society, but rank does - even if you choose a less attractive job. The standing of your father do affect the dealing versus other people. Well just a few words on how our tribal life works today. Someone mentioned neo-shamanism in this thread, we strongly dislike that. You friend Euthie |
Aran'gar |
Posted - 2003.12.27 20:05:00 -
[43] Hmm.. this is a great thread.. sorry to have not found it before. Like someone said before me, I was waiting for prime fiction to clear up some things. Then again, I hope that instead Wren and this post can help the prime fiction writers and give them some idea as to what the players that are involved in RP want and expect. The tattos of Minmatar seem to be in a certain way like the ... what's it called.. the fabric of Scottish clans uniforms, they are sometimes bound to a certain family at least. The mark you receive on the other hand is in some way random.. and caused by some sort of mixture that is seen as almost magical, at least very mystical. Another thing is that the tribes are not really living in any total harmony... there is a major struggle to just keep the Republic functioning as one body in CONCORD politics I think. In any case I think another short story is long over due from the CCP team!!! Freedom for all Join channel Minmatar for contacts. |
 Aran'gar Bleak Cabal |
Posted - 2003.12.27 20:05:00 -
[44] Hmm.. this is a great thread.. sorry to have not found it before. Like someone said before me, I was waiting for prime fiction to clear up some things. Then again, I hope that instead Wren and this post can help the prime fiction writers and give them some idea as to what the players that are involved in RP want and expect. The tattos of Minmatar seem to be in a certain way like the ... what's it called.. the fabric of Scottish clans uniforms, they are sometimes bound to a certain family at least. The mark you receive on the other hand is in some way random.. and caused by some sort of mixture that is seen as almost magical, at least very mystical. Another thing is that the tribes are not really living in any total harmony... there is a major struggle to just keep the Republic functioning as one body in CONCORD politics I think. In any case I think another short story is long over due from the CCP team!!! Freedom for all Join channel Minmatar for contacts. |
Hasek |
Posted - 2004.01.04 07:17:00 -
[45]
kinda off topic.... but after reading some of those books u find in stores plz dont think they have any truth about how us real pagans act and belive..... |
 Hasek Hive Minerals |
Posted - 2004.01.04 07:17:00 -
[46]
kinda off topic.... but after reading some of those books u find in stores plz dont think they have any truth about how us real pagans act and belive..... |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.01.07 08:14:00 -
[47] Edited by: Wren on 07/01/2004 08:15:43 Holy crap, I took a nap and this thread got posted on! Well, holistic mechanics does sound interesting. Mechanic A: "ooooooooaaaammmmmmmmm" *smacks his back with a leafy branch and drips a thick green liquid under his tongue* Gallente Customer: "What are you doing?" Mechanic A: "Going into a trance so I can see the wounded spirit of your Thorax, ooooooohhhhhmmmmmm." *Branch thwak, drip* ---------------------------------------------- Okay, maybe not so goofy, but still interesting. Anyway, I can see now that jobs wouldn't be handed down in families, and how clans would be seen as just a natural extention to the family unit. I will have to check out books on the middle east to check for parallels with that kind of society, but really, I pictured the Minmatar as a japanese mixed with scottish type of socitety. Crazy as that sounds. I figured the criminal people of the minmatar to be like the Yakuza mixed with the Irish mob! So, perhaps I just need to quit thinking in earth type of themes and expand my mind. Let's get more discussion please, so help me 'break open my skull'. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.01.07 08:14:00 -
[48] Edited by: Wren on 07/01/2004 08:15:43 Holy crap, I took a nap and this thread got posted on! Well, holistic mechanics does sound interesting. Mechanic A: "ooooooooaaaammmmmmmmm" *smacks his back with a leafy branch and drips a thick green liquid under his tongue* Gallente Customer: "What are you doing?" Mechanic A: "Going into a trance so I can see the wounded spirit of your Thorax, ooooooohhhhhmmmmmm." *Branch thwak, drip* ---------------------------------------------- Okay, maybe not so goofy, but still interesting. Anyway, I can see now that jobs wouldn't be handed down in families, and how clans would be seen as just a natural extention to the family unit. I will have to check out books on the middle east to check for parallels with that kind of society, but really, I pictured the Minmatar as a japanese mixed with scottish type of socitety. Crazy as that sounds. I figured the criminal people of the minmatar to be like the Yakuza mixed with the Irish mob! So, perhaps I just need to quit thinking in earth type of themes and expand my mind. Let's get more discussion please, so help me 'break open my skull'. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Darodem |
Posted - 2004.01.08 05:10:00 -
[49] /emote cringes at being called old school This is a huge topic because we need to deal with a whole bigger than global culture. So I am certain that we should discuss things in terms of a spectrum of behaviours and break off pieces. Keep in mind alot of overlap happens blending political organization with religious tradition tribal organization etc. Holistic is a concept that, for me, seems to resonate from the other replys. To take stuff from the real world and reflect it in the ideas of the Minmatar is a good way to approach things I think. There are certain things we need to accomplish: High tech - mechanistically understood and kept simple yet effective. Religious tradition - early white americans used to go to camp in the spring, each family keeping a small cabin in a grouping of cabins where folks would gather for two or three weeks a year to live the simple life, American indians had huge gatherings annually what comes to mind are the Cherokee and Chickasaw - the braves would meet and play a wicked game of lacrosse to decide who got first pick of shared farm land. Of course eastern traditions can inform us, the Shaolin tradition in China can be transmuted to technical school for a technical class. There is lots more than this and we should break it up into pieces. Organized crime - this is much more problematic to describe, since organizations like this are very dynamic and have echos in other facets of self organizing groups. Tribal - spectrum from simple legal designation all the way to a paternal cult like design Keep in mind that Minmatar are just as technically savvy, we are well fed and generally rich but we are also culturally beheaded, the Ammatars took the most educated and capitalized part of our society about 1000 years ago. The parallels can again be extended to post revolution American culture, we kicked out the royals, we organize into family clans, tribal clans, race oriented collectives or even corporate enclaves but we are urbanizing, education is largely vocational yet all or most possibilities exist, world spanning corporations (Dutch East India company as an example) can effect our politics and culture. |
 Darodem Minmatar STK Scientific |
Posted - 2004.01.08 05:10:00 -
[50] /emote cringes at being called old school This is a huge topic because we need to deal with a whole bigger than global culture. So I am certain that we should discuss things in terms of a spectrum of behaviours and break off pieces. Keep in mind alot of overlap happens blending political organization with religious tradition tribal organization etc. Holistic is a concept that, for me, seems to resonate from the other replys. To take stuff from the real world and reflect it in the ideas of the Minmatar is a good way to approach things I think. There are certain things we need to accomplish: High tech - mechanistically understood and kept simple yet effective. Religious tradition - early white americans used to go to camp in the spring, each family keeping a small cabin in a grouping of cabins where folks would gather for two or three weeks a year to live the simple life, American indians had huge gatherings annually what comes to mind are the Cherokee and Chickasaw - the braves would meet and play a wicked game of lacrosse to decide who got first pick of shared farm land. Of course eastern traditions can inform us, the Shaolin tradition in China can be transmuted to technical school for a technical class. There is lots more than this and we should break it up into pieces. Organized crime - this is much more problematic to describe, since organizations like this are very dynamic and have echos in other facets of self organizing groups. Tribal - spectrum from simple legal designation all the way to a paternal cult like design Keep in mind that Minmatar are just as technically savvy, we are well fed and generally rich but we are also culturally beheaded, the Ammatars took the most educated and capitalized part of our society about 1000 years ago. The parallels can again be extended to post revolution American culture, we kicked out the royals, we organize into family clans, tribal clans, race oriented collectives or even corporate enclaves but we are urbanizing, education is largely vocational yet all or most possibilities exist, world spanning corporations (Dutch East India company as an example) can effect our politics and culture. |
Shintoko Akahoshi |
Posted - 2004.01.08 07:54:00 -
[51]
I think you're on the right track here. Look into the way Arab extended families operate, for instance. I personally don't think it's crazy to adopt aspects of various cultures like you mention. We're talking about an entire planet, after all, with various distinct tribes living on it. What would be strange would be if they weren't very different from one another. As far as the organized crime thing goes, too, you might want to look at crime in scotland after the battle of Culloden. My RL in-laws clan in america, for instance, was formed almost entirely out of highway robbers who were given the choice between death and being sent to america. It wasn't a very organized sort of crime. Rather it was a bunch of like-minded people acting more or less independently. There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis |
Posted - 2004.01.08 07:54:00 -
[52]
I think you're on the right track here. Look into the way Arab extended families operate, for instance. I personally don't think it's crazy to adopt aspects of various cultures like you mention. We're talking about an entire planet, after all, with various distinct tribes living on it. What would be strange would be if they weren't very different from one another. As far as the organized crime thing goes, too, you might want to look at crime in scotland after the battle of Culloden. My RL in-laws clan in america, for instance, was formed almost entirely out of highway robbers who were given the choice between death and being sent to america. It wasn't a very organized sort of crime. Rather it was a bunch of like-minded people acting more or less independently. Omerta Syndicate Biotechnical Research |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.01.08 12:13:00 -
[53] Edited by: Wren on 08/01/2004 12:17:18 Edited by: Wren on 08/01/2004 12:14:28 Based on the not old school Darodem's suggestion, we will try and break this down into managable chunks. Further, I think we should only work on the Sebiestor and Brutor tribes. This is because it will simply things greatly.
-------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.01.08 12:13:00 -
[54] Edited by: Wren on 08/01/2004 12:17:18 Edited by: Wren on 08/01/2004 12:14:28 Based on the not old school Darodem's suggestion, we will try and break this down into managable chunks. Further, I think we should only work on the Sebiestor and Brutor tribes. This is because it will simply things greatly.
----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.01.08 12:30:00 -
[55]
Lets keep this going please, the more we do, the better we can role play i think. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.01.08 12:30:00 -
[56]
Lets keep this going please, the more we do, the better we can role play i think. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.01.20 10:32:00 -
[57] I was thinking last night, with help from someone I was talking to (you know who you are, don't ya?) and the subject of rituals came up, especially one which would serve a purpose in altering social patterns and structures. Say a tribe had rituals that would ensure that all children would be conceived in a few days apart from all the other children. This would then mean that they would be born close to the same time. In this way, the mothers could all share responsibilities as they raised the children communally. This would also lead to a more streamlined educational and training system, as all of the kids would be near the same age. This would help a small community; say a few hundred at the most, wouldn't you think? As an entire generation would be able to be trained at once, and then later train the next generation? Also, what about the drugs? What kinds of effects would, could and should have places within the tribal community? Don't you think that there would be conscious expanding drugs for creating visions that could be interpreted by wise men to learn things about the individual or about the community? What about aggression or alertness enhancing drugs which could be used before fights or hunts to further increase the effectiveness? Anyway, just a few more ideas thrown out to see what sticks on the wall. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.01.20 10:32:00 -
[58] I was thinking last night, with help from someone I was talking to (you know who you are, don't ya?) and the subject of rituals came up, especially one which would serve a purpose in altering social patterns and structures. Say a tribe had rituals that would ensure that all children would be conceived in a few days apart from all the other children. This would then mean that they would be born close to the same time. In this way, the mothers could all share responsibilities as they raised the children communally. This would also lead to a more streamlined educational and training system, as all of the kids would be near the same age. This would help a small community; say a few hundred at the most, wouldn't you think? As an entire generation would be able to be trained at once, and then later train the next generation? Also, what about the drugs? What kinds of effects would, could and should have places within the tribal community? Don't you think that there would be conscious expanding drugs for creating visions that could be interpreted by wise men to learn things about the individual or about the community? What about aggression or alertness enhancing drugs which could be used before fights or hunts to further increase the effectiveness? Anyway, just a few more ideas thrown out to see what sticks on the wall. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Tsual |
Posted - 2004.01.21 20:38:00 -
[59] Edited by: Tsual on 21/01/2004 21:02:20 I myself thought a bit about nomade society: I myself interpret it's body rather tribe - clan - pack - family. 1)Family is not to be said the smallest but genetical the closest unit of a society. 2)Pack several people traveling around in a more or lesss organized group, having several if not all proffesions among them to survive: Hunters, warriors, scouts, workers, builders, mechnanic, leader(,shaman). The smallest social unit of a nomade society. Packs can be divided into sub-packs(people with the same profession) every sub pack has a leader but every sub-pack leader is subordinate of the pack leader. A settled pack would become a village 3)A Family can be a pack, but a pack is not necessary a family. 4)Clan: a union of political like minded packs (more or less loosen) Maybe this is the reason why minmatar politic has a crucial problem with extending above the clan level: if a packs politic divergents from the clans politic the pack changes to a clan suiting their politic better. (Taking my definition we could say all the freedom fighter corporations form a clan and Oracle, PFM, Matari Backbone(to name some) are the packs of the clan.) 5)Tribe the union of several clans due to genetical, historical and local reason. The tribe however is not more then a very loosen political union. Maybe a great meeting of the tribes clan chiefs had been taking place once a year in ancient times. Then political problems would be discussed between the men leaders (and between the women leaders) and in the end several arrangments were made lasting till the next great meeting. Over the whole meeting, families would arrange marriage of there teenage childs. In the end shamans would perform a ritual or something like that. My two Isk cent. -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2004.01.21 20:38:00 -
[60] Edited by: Tsual on 21/01/2004 21:02:20 I myself thought a bit about nomade society: I myself interpret it's body rather tribe - clan - pack - family. 1)Family is not to be said the smallest but genetical the closest unit of a society. 2)Pack several people traveling around in a more or lesss organized group, having several if not all proffesions among them to survive: Hunters, warriors, scouts, workers, builders, mechnanic, leader(,shaman). The smallest social unit of a nomade society. Packs can be divided into sub-packs(people with the same profession) every sub pack has a leader but every sub-pack leader is subordinate of the pack leader. A settled pack would become a village 3)A Family can be a pack, but a pack is not necessary a family. 4)Clan: a union of political like minded packs (more or less loosen) Maybe this is the reason why minmatar politic has a crucial problem with extending above the clan level: if a packs politic divergents from the clans politic the pack changes to a clan suiting their politic better. (Taking my definition we could say all the freedom fighter corporations form a clan and Oracle, PFM, Matari Backbone(to name some) are the packs of the clan.) 5)Tribe the union of several clans due to genetical, historical and local reason. The tribe however is not more then a very loosen political union. Maybe a great meeting of the tribes clan chiefs had been taking place once a year in ancient times. Then political problems would be discussed between the men leaders (and between the women leaders) and in the end several arrangments were made lasting till the next great meeting. Over the whole meeting, families would arrange marriage of there teenage childs. In the end shamans would perform a ritual or something like that. My two Isk cent. Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
Seline |
Posted - 2004.01.23 13:22:00 -
[61] The whole Minmatar culture is probably very heterogen. All we know is that they have one common rite for the acceptance of individuals into adulthood. Compare to western civilization and Christmas celebration. The origins are lost and probably go back thousands of years. The christian version started during the 5th century as a christian ritual. Look at the diversities of it now. Some people go to church. Some drink a lot of beer. Some get a gifts from a man with a white beard. Some get presents in a sock the day after. Some says gifts are blasphemic and we are _really_ just supposed to pray and be thankful since JC is born. Some eats cod and potatoes - others eat turkey or gigantic smorgasbords. Some says it is a christian festivity others say its pagan. The only commoon thing is that its celebrated around 24th-25th december each year. Minmatar culture has developed in roughly the same period of time. Every part of society is probably just as diverse as the example above. The one thing that i think unify us above else is our common enemy - The Amarr Empire. my .02 isks /Seline |
 Seline |
Posted - 2004.01.23 13:22:00 -
[62] The whole Minmatar culture is probably very heterogen. All we know is that they have one common rite for the acceptance of individuals into adulthood. Compare to western civilization and Christmas celebration. The origins are lost and probably go back thousands of years. The christian version started during the 5th century as a christian ritual. Look at the diversities of it now. Some people go to church. Some drink a lot of beer. Some get a gifts from a man with a white beard. Some get presents in a sock the day after. Some says gifts are blasphemic and we are _really_ just supposed to pray and be thankful since JC is born. Some eats cod and potatoes - others eat turkey or gigantic smorgasbords. Some says it is a christian festivity others say its pagan. The only commoon thing is that its celebrated around 24th-25th december each year. Minmatar culture has developed in roughly the same period of time. Every part of society is probably just as diverse as the example above. The one thing that i think unify us above else is our common enemy - The Amarr Empire. my .02 isks /Seline |
 Wren |
Posted - 2004.04.20 08:39:00 -
[63] Hey, I was doing some research and found lots of info on tribal weddings. As always, it said that there are so many different customs that are specific to one tribe, that it is hard to generalize anything into just a 'tribal' custom. I wish we could get CCP to give us some examples of both Sebiestor customs as well as Brutor, Thukker, and anything else that they can. It's hard to play a fundamentalist/revivalist sorta spirital shaman wannabe dude when you don't know what you are doing! -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.20 08:39:00 -
[64] Hey, I was doing some research and found lots of info on tribal weddings. As always, it said that there are so many different customs that are specific to one tribe, that it is hard to generalize anything into just a 'tribal' custom. I wish we could get CCP to give us some examples of both Sebiestor customs as well as Brutor, Thukker, and anything else that they can. It's hard to play a fundamentalist/revivalist sorta spirital shaman wannabe dude when you don't know what you are doing! ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Ashka Neris |
Posted - 2004.04.20 10:04:00 -
[65] I am currently writing a history and background to the Raven Clan My first thesis will be on the enigmatic Neris Sisterhood we mention from time to time. I shall follow that with a history and hiearchy system shortly afterward. --------------------------- Proud to be half Brutor http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=69488&page=1R |
 Ashka Neris Neohazard Freelance Peace keeping Agency |
Posted - 2004.04.20 10:04:00 -
[66] I am currently writing a history and background to the Raven Clan My first thesis will be on the enigmatic Neris Sisterhood we mention from time to time. I shall follow that with a history and hiearchy system shortly afterward. --------------------------- Proud to be half Brutor http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=69488&page=1R |
 Wren |
Posted - 2004.04.20 11:01:00 -
[67] So, is there any chance that I can get like, 3-5 sebiestors players to help make a rough 'traditional' customs and a group of 4-6 brutor players do the same? I would like that the groups just add all ideas into one pot, and keep the sebiestor and the brutor pot seperate. I see the Sebiestor having similarities to the celtic and asian tribal cultures and the brutor more like the african, island, and native american customs. If that makes any sense. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.20 11:01:00 -
[68] So, is there any chance that I can get like, 3-5 sebiestors players to help make a rough 'traditional' customs and a group of 4-6 brutor players do the same? I would like that the groups just add all ideas into one pot, and keep the sebiestor and the brutor pot seperate. I see the Sebiestor having similarities to the celtic and asian tribal cultures and the brutor more like the african, island, and native american customs. If that makes any sense. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
AsheRaven |
Posted - 2004.04.20 11:57:00 -
[69] We've base our clan on the tribal structures like those laid our in Werewolf the Apocolypse. I'd be happy to assist on this project --------------------------------- |
 AsheRaven Minmatar Brutor tribe |
Posted - 2004.04.20 11:57:00 -
[70] We've base our clan on the tribal structures like those laid our in Werewolf the Apocolypse. I'd be happy to assist on this project --------------------------------- |
Kakita Jalaan |
Posted - 2004.04.20 12:52:00 -
[71] This thread is very interesting indeed... I hope no one would mind if the compiled background material would eventually find its way into the Eve pen & paper project I'm currently trying to get started? If you're generally interested, check my sig. |
 Kakita Jalaan Viriette Commerce and Holding |
Posted - 2004.04.20 12:52:00 -
[72] This thread is very interesting indeed... I hope no one would mind if the compiled background material would eventually find its way into the Eve pen & paper project I'm currently trying to get started? If you're generally interested, check my sig. ______________ Join the Family |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.04.20 13:19:00 -
[73] Ashe, Interesting idea. So would you consider possibly leading the Brutor group? -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.20 13:19:00 -
[74] Ashe, Interesting idea. So would you consider possibly leading the Brutor group? ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
AsheRaven |
Posted - 2004.04.20 13:23:00 -
[75] I'd be honoured, thanyou for asking. I'll print out this thread and consider al the points raised --------------------------------- |
AsheRaven Minmatar Brutor tribe |
Posted - 2004.04.20 13:23:00 -
[76] I'd be honoured, thanyou for asking. I'll print out this thread and consider al the points raised --------------------------------- |
Ashka Neris |
Posted - 2004.04.20 16:29:00 -
[77] Edited by: Ashka Neris on 20/04/2004 16:31:16 Edited by: Ashka Neris on 20/04/2004 16:30:09 Ashe and I are setting up an unofficial website for a Minmtar Encyclopedea. If any one wants to help towatrds it, please do. More details when I write it up :p --------------------------- Proud to be half Brutor http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=69488&page=1R |
Ashka Neris Neohazard Freelance Peace keeping Agency |
Posted - 2004.04.20 16:29:00 -
[78] Edited by: Ashka Neris on 20/04/2004 16:31:16 Edited by: Ashka Neris on 20/04/2004 16:30:09 Ashe and I are setting up an unofficial website for a Minmtar Encyclopedea. If any one wants to help towatrds it, please do. More details when I write it up :p --------------------------- Proud to be half Brutor http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=69488&page=1R |
 Tsual |
Posted - 2004.04.20 17:16:00 -
[79] Edited by: Tsual on 20/04/2004 18:49:26 Under the category unusual Minmatar sects/cults on pator you can add the Qua'nadhar.(more or less personally main RP project) I would also like to help in the sebiestor group. But don't await to much, my main quest ist thinking and pondering about what could be introduced to the game, coded by the developpers (however most ideas I have I throw away as either someone already posted them or I don't think that can be done) -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2004.04.20 17:16:00 -
[80] Edited by: Tsual on 20/04/2004 18:49:26 Under the category unusual Minmatar sects/cults on pator you can add the Qua'nadhar.(more or less personally main RP project) I would also like to help in the sebiestor group. But don't await to much, my main quest ist thinking and pondering about what could be introduced to the game, coded by the developpers (however most ideas I have I throw away as either someone already posted them or I don't think that can be done) Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
Zaphod Robotnik |
Posted - 2004.04.20 18:20:00 -
[81]
Might I suggest you have a word with Tih Ahh who does minmatar.net and see if you can't have your encycolpedia integrated there. It'd be something that I'd be very interested in - love anything that expands the RP and immersion in EVE. There is a similar sort of thing on amarr.net but it is a bit neglected... -- Zaphod "Zaprobo" Robotnik President, Royal Communication Department http://eve.britishspacecorps.co.uk/http://eve.britishspacecorps |
 Zaphod Robotnik Imperial Shipment |
Posted - 2004.04.20 18:20:00 -
[82]
Might I suggest you have a word with Tih Ahh who does minmatar.net and see if you can't have your encycolpedia integrated there. It'd be something that I'd be very interested in - love anything that expands the RP and immersion in EVE. There is a similar sort of thing on amarr.net but it is a bit neglected... -- Zaphod "Zaprobo" Robotnik Former President, Royal Communication Department http://eve.britishspacecorps.co.uk/ |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.04.25 05:45:00 -
[83] Okay, I just requested some more books, one about body modification including tattoos, piercings and brandings, and then some books oh holistic healing and runes. Adding this with the stuff I leaned about budo and bujitsu and the small amount of reading from native american and asian customs, I am begining to get ideas and inspiration. If some of the sebiestors who are heavy into rp could contact me ingame with an eve-mail or a convo at any time could, I would like to set up some serious rap sessions and brainstorming. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.25 05:45:00 -
[84] Okay, I just requested some more books, one about body modification including tattoos, piercings and brandings, and then some books oh holistic healing and runes. Adding this with the stuff I leaned about budo and bujitsu and the small amount of reading from native american and asian customs, I am begining to get ideas and inspiration. If some of the sebiestors who are heavy into rp could contact me ingame with an eve-mail or a convo at any time could, I would like to set up some serious rap sessions and brainstorming. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Darius Shakor |
Posted - 2004.04.26 09:45:00 -
[85] Edited by: Darius Shakor on 26/04/2004 09:50:22 Edited by: Darius Shakor on 26/04/2004 09:50:02 Wren, forgive me if this has been suggested before but I haven't time to read this whole thread today, though I will because it seems fairly interesting. I was watching a documentary on Hawaii tibes of old and how they would engage in show before battle to the other side to intimidate them. It was called Extreem Hawaii if you get chance to see it, and it was on the sky channel Discovery Civilisation. What struck me as particularly interesting was that they would engage in a show of ferocity to their enemy for two reasons. 1 to fire themselves up and try to intimidate the enemy so they would lose due to fear. 2, and the most interesting reason, so that they would not have to fight for a complex set of reasons. The show would do several things for the tribes. They would most often back away from combad from eachother after such a show as it was clear that both sides meant buusiness and would, even if they lost, inflict horific wounds and casualties on their enemy so that winning would not look much like it. They would also do it out of mutual respect for eachother if they had both put on a good show. This was also used as a ethod of first contact with unknown tribes too and after such a show, if satisfactory, the tribe leaders would clasp hands and touch foreheads with a scoul on their faces, but it was meant as a sign of respect to the other not to interfere with eachothers territory unless provoked. All in all rather facinating. I have long belived that such as the Brutors would have come from this kind background on earth as they settled on islands in the warmer south of matar akin to those in the south pacific areas and Hawaii. I just thought I should share that as it could be a nice part of Brutor history after the gate closed and technology regressed. *edit* I should also mention that such traditions are honoured on Hawaii on a regular basis on their old calender as decendants would meet eachother and perform the traditional war dances to decendants of other tribes as they do the same. Not entirely a public affair like Civil War Recreation, though local people do go and watch and maybe some tourists. But it is more of a memorial to important dates where great tribes would either declare peace or war. Given the heavy traditional ties on Matar that may still exist, I would imagine that such rituals on Matar would be honoured in memorial and people would train for years to be accepted into the recreation. ------ Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at |
 Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.26 09:45:00 -
[86] Edited by: Darius Shakor on 26/04/2004 09:50:22 Edited by: Darius Shakor on 26/04/2004 09:50:02 Wren, forgive me if this has been suggested before but I haven't time to read this whole thread today, though I will because it seems fairly interesting. I was watching a documentary on Hawaii tibes of old and how they would engage in show before battle to the other side to intimidate them. It was called Extreem Hawaii if you get chance to see it, and it was on the sky channel Discovery Civilisation. What struck me as particularly interesting was that they would engage in a show of ferocity to their enemy for two reasons. 1 to fire themselves up and try to intimidate the enemy so they would lose due to fear. 2, and the most interesting reason, so that they would not have to fight for a complex set of reasons. The show would do several things for the tribes. They would most often back away from combad from eachother after such a show as it was clear that both sides meant buusiness and would, even if they lost, inflict horific wounds and casualties on their enemy so that winning would not look much like it. They would also do it out of mutual respect for eachother if they had both put on a good show. This was also used as a ethod of first contact with unknown tribes too and after such a show, if satisfactory, the tribe leaders would clasp hands and touch foreheads with a scoul on their faces, but it was meant as a sign of respect to the other not to interfere with eachothers territory unless provoked. All in all rather facinating. I have long belived that such as the Brutors would have come from this kind background on earth as they settled on islands in the warmer south of matar akin to those in the south pacific areas and Hawaii. I just thought I should share that as it could be a nice part of Brutor history after the gate closed and technology regressed. *edit* I should also mention that such traditions are honoured on Hawaii on a regular basis on their old calender as decendants would meet eachother and perform the traditional war dances to decendants of other tribes as they do the same. Not entirely a public affair like Civil War Recreation, though local people do go and watch and maybe some tourists. But it is more of a memorial to important dates where great tribes would either declare peace or war. Given the heavy traditional ties on Matar that may still exist, I would imagine that such rituals on Matar would be honoured in memorial and people would train for years to be accepted into the recreation. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.04.26 12:20:00 -
[87] Very interesting. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.26 12:20:00 -
[88] Very interesting. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Discorporation |
Posted - 2004.04.26 15:21:00 -
[89] You need to start reading books on Technoshamanism. Minnies aren't old-school trbialists, like 1600 Native Americans. Try to think how the various Tribal cultures would integrate high-tech into their rituals, into their religious beliefs There's proof of Minmatar using technology in their Tribalism, from the nano-ink used in the Voluval, to the War Tattoo's. Also, don't forget that the Amarr are likely not to have allowed these 'customs' to persist during the occupation. Since most (read, all) of the Minnie race has been enslaved, most of their traditions would have been lost (think of the Maya or Inca's (can't remember which one) after the conquistadores massacred them all). [Heterocephalus glaber] |
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2004.04.26 15:21:00 -
[90] You need to start reading books on Technoshamanism. Minnies aren't old-school trbialists, like 1600 Native Americans. Try to think how the various Tribal cultures would integrate high-tech into their rituals, into their religious beliefs There's proof of Minmatar using technology in their Tribalism, from the nano-ink used in the Voluval, to the War Tattoo's. Also, don't forget that the Amarr are likely not to have allowed these 'customs' to persist during the occupation. Since most (read, all) of the Minnie race has been enslaved, most of their traditions would have been lost (think of the Maya or Inca's (can't remember which one) after the conquistadores massacred them all). |
Tsual |
Posted - 2004.04.26 15:44:00 -
[91] Edited by: Tsual on 26/04/2004 15:47:55 I remember something about germanic tribes while the emigration of nations/invasion of the barbarians epoch: Asfar as I understood it to find out what is the right direction to move on a holy woman pour animal blood on a stone and interpreted the resulting form. So what I want to say, I think this ritual or similar ritual to decide wouldn't or would hardly survive but maybe for political decisions of a clan the whole process might be started with a modified version. With regard to Discorporations posting: I would suggest that several of the old rituals might use Amarrian symbolics or are mixed with amarrian ritual rules as they were opressed with this "cultural meme complex" about 900 years, the Minmatars had to conceal their culture and perhaps they simply performed a ritual or mass that looked Amarrian but was actually after sebiestor/brutor/vherokior... tradition. As good real world example I'd suggest to take a look at the descedants of the mayans or ex-native cultures that were taught christian believes, they have learned to mix both and arange them in one world-view, simply telling you about their believes: "At day we are christians, at night we believe in the teachings of our ancestors." Or "Every sunday I'm a honest christian, the rest of the week I listen to the voodoo priest." (only exaggeration but help to explain what I mean.) This could also be a reason why the Amarrian Empire had problems of crushing the Minmatar culture, some or even a lot of slaves simply played the act of being "the brave and enlightende slave" when a person of the inquisiton watched them, and as soon as "big brother" was gone, they returned to their traditions. -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2004.04.26 15:44:00 -
[92] Edited by: Tsual on 26/04/2004 15:47:55 I remember something about germanic tribes while the emigration of nations/invasion of the barbarians epoch: Asfar as I understood it to find out what is the right direction to move on a holy woman pour animal blood on a stone and interpreted the resulting form. So what I want to say, I think this ritual or similar ritual to decide wouldn't or would hardly survive but maybe for political decisions of a clan the whole process might be started with a modified version. With regard to Discorporations posting: I would suggest that several of the old rituals might use Amarrian symbolics or are mixed with amarrian ritual rules as they were opressed with this "cultural meme complex" about 900 years, the Minmatars had to conceal their culture and perhaps they simply performed a ritual or mass that looked Amarrian but was actually after sebiestor/brutor/vherokior... tradition. As good real world example I'd suggest to take a look at the descedants of the mayans or ex-native cultures that were taught christian believes, they have learned to mix both and arange them in one world-view, simply telling you about their believes: "At day we are christians, at night we believe in the teachings of our ancestors." Or "Every sunday I'm a honest christian, the rest of the week I listen to the voodoo priest." (only exaggeration but help to explain what I mean.) This could also be a reason why the Amarrian Empire had problems of crushing the Minmatar culture, some or even a lot of slaves simply played the act of being "the brave and enlightende slave" when a person of the inquisiton watched them, and as soon as "big brother" was gone, they returned to their traditions. Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
Discorporation |
Posted - 2004.04.26 17:41:00 -
[93] The 'Education of slaves' was coined by old Sabaoth Incorporated and was a clever ruse to obscure the fact that slavery is quite horrible and that lots of slaves die every day in the Empire. No one truly believes in it, not even the Amarrians themselves. It's just a useful excuse to justify slavery other then the Prime Fiction one: "Our religion says it's OK, so it must be OK". I apologise for the off-topicness [Heterocephalus glaber] |
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2004.04.26 17:41:00 -
[94] The 'Education of slaves' was coined by old Sabaoth Incorporated and was a clever ruse to obscure the fact that slavery is quite horrible and that lots of slaves die every day in the Empire. No one truly believes in it, not even the Amarrians themselves. It's just a useful excuse to justify slavery other then the Prime Fiction one: "Our religion says it's OK, so it must be OK". I apologise for the off-topicness |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.04.27 05:53:00 -
[95] Disco, I was looking at chemicals introduced by injections into specific areas of the body. The amarrian overlords were probably very good at injecting the enslaved minmatar people. The chemicals they also intruduced was probably also very effective and so might have come off as magical. I was going to go for different sorts of rituals that would use injections that go into the fingers, back/spine, torso, arms, and neck. I was going to go for halucinagenic, mood altering, physical enhancement (increased strength or resistance to pain) and all other sorts of things, and all surrounded by a ritualistic covering. It's the coverings I am having trouble with. Maybe many injections would be used on certain tattooed areas? (to cover the tracks) Do more tattoos mean that you are more in tune with the rituals and practice them more often? I was starting to think maybe the shamans actually know what the gizmos do, how they do it, and play it up as magical for the masses. What has survived the occupation, and what is a product of the occupation? What are the voluval marks? Why haven't we ever gotten a list? My books will be in tomorrow at the public library. I will see if they have anything on technoshamanism, but I seriously doubt it. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.27 05:53:00 -
[96] Disco, I was looking at chemicals introduced by injections into specific areas of the body. The amarrian overlords were probably very good at injecting the enslaved minmatar people. The chemicals they also intruduced was probably also very effective and so might have come off as magical. I was going to go for different sorts of rituals that would use injections that go into the fingers, back/spine, torso, arms, and neck. I was going to go for halucinagenic, mood altering, physical enhancement (increased strength or resistance to pain) and all other sorts of things, and all surrounded by a ritualistic covering. It's the coverings I am having trouble with. Maybe many injections would be used on certain tattooed areas? (to cover the tracks) Do more tattoos mean that you are more in tune with the rituals and practice them more often? I was starting to think maybe the shamans actually know what the gizmos do, how they do it, and play it up as magical for the masses. What has survived the occupation, and what is a product of the occupation? What are the voluval marks? Why haven't we ever gotten a list? My books will be in tomorrow at the public library. I will see if they have anything on technoshamanism, but I seriously doubt it. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Discorporation |
Posted - 2004.04.27 10:18:00 -
[97] Edited by: Discorporation on 27/04/2004 10:21:49
Minnies aren't stupid, they'd know full well it were chemicals they were injected with  .
Kinda like Peyote, then? (only injected, not ingested. Ingestion is a better thing, imho, because it doesn't breaches the bodies' natural defenses, and injection can be seen as a way of 'defiling' the flesh). I was going to go for halucinagenic, mood altering, physical enhancement (increased strength or resistance to pain) and all other sorts of things, and all surrounded by a ritualistic covering.
Not sure, but I don't like injections in the first place (Don't like needles :P)
How amarrian of you . that's how i always perceived the Empire to display the emperor's power to the people, a grand, festive lightshow, with buttloads of special effects, singers, dancers and lots of hallelujah brothers!Doesn't seem to be something for the Minnies. Shamans would likely be quite open with the rest of the people, to ensure they are still trusted (trust is important after the occupation, I'd imagine). Cant answer guesstimate all of the following Q's but here goes:
Same reason we dont have a list of festivals, or Saints, probably no time to list tem. You can also make your own, ofcourse :D
Ask Bad Harlequin or do a few searches on Google. There's some funky stuff out there. Also, you might want to take a few looks at the current modern primitive subcultures, and try enter their mind-set. See how they would ingrain cybernetics, nano-technology, etc in their daily lives and practices. 's all I can say, really 0_o [Heterocephalus glaber] |
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2004.04.27 10:18:00 -
[98] Edited by: Discorporation on 27/04/2004 10:21:49
Minnies aren't stupid, they'd know full well it were chemicals they were injected with .
Kinda like Peyote, then? (only injected, not ingested. Ingestion is a better thing, imho, because it doesn't breaches the bodies' natural defenses, and injection can be seen as a way of 'defiling' the flesh). I was going to go for halucinagenic, mood altering, physical enhancement (increased strength or resistance to pain) and all other sorts of things, and all surrounded by a ritualistic covering.
Not sure, but I don't like injections in the first place (Don't like needles :P)
How amarrian of you . that's how i always perceived the Empire to display the emperor's power to the people, a grand, festive lightshow, with buttloads of special effects, singers, dancers and lots of hallelujah brothers!Doesn't seem to be something for the Minnies. Shamans would likely be quite open with the rest of the people, to ensure they are still trusted (trust is important after the occupation, I'd imagine). Cant answer guesstimate all of the following Q's but here goes:
Same reason we dont have a list of festivals, or Saints, probably no time to list tem. You can also make your own, ofcourse :D
Ask Bad Harlequin or do a few searches on Google. There's some funky stuff out there. Also, you might want to take a few looks at the current modern primitive subcultures, and try enter their mind-set. See how they would ingrain cybernetics, nano-technology, etc in their daily lives and practices. 's all I can say, really 0_o |
 Wren |
Posted - 2004.04.27 13:16:00 -
[99] Okay, well if injection is in, then perhaps inhalers and pills would also be used? -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.27 13:16:00 -
[100] Okay, well if injection is in, then perhaps inhalers and pills would also be used? ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Tsual |
Posted - 2004.04.27 14:23:00 -
[101] Edited by: Tsual on 27/04/2004 14:27:14 Edited by: Tsual on 27/04/2004 14:24:47 I'm curious wether homeophathy would be a part of minmatar medicin? (Perhaps I find some time to read through the two 400 page thick documents my mother bought lately.) I found following about technoshamanism: her you can read it Following principels I quote from there:
Two spare informative but perhaps good introducing pages about Technoshamanism at http://www.hyperreal.org/raves/spirit/technoshamanism.html and http://www.geocities.com/firemoondancer/technoshamanism.html Some lengthier and rather scientific text about Technoshamanism here.(don't know if I should choose a more special attribute here) A Lexicon that that goes into the esoteric direction: http://www.fusionanomaly.net/TechNode.html -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2004.04.27 14:23:00 -
[102] Edited by: Tsual on 27/04/2004 14:27:14 Edited by: Tsual on 27/04/2004 14:24:47 I'm curious wether homeophathy would be a part of minmatar medicin? (Perhaps I find some time to read through the two 400 page thick documents my mother bought lately.) I found following about technoshamanism: her you can read it Following principels I quote from there:
Two spare informative but perhaps good introducing pages about Technoshamanism at http://www.hyperreal.org/raves/spirit/technoshamanism.html and http://www.geocities.com/firemoondancer/technoshamanism.html Some lengthier and rather scientific text about Technoshamanism here.(don't know if I should choose a more special attribute here) A Lexicon that that goes into the esoteric direction: http://www.fusionanomaly.net/TechNode.html Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.04.27 21:49:00 -
[103] Thanks Tsual! Lots of things for me to read at work tonight instead of scrolling through the Oracle, CA, Official and EVE P&P boards. Sometimes I drive myself crazy waiting for 'the next' post. heh. So, anyway, with this and the other stuff I have to read, expect a short break whilst I digest the info and let it perculate. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.04.27 21:49:00 -
[104] Thanks Tsual! Lots of things for me to read at work tonight instead of scrolling through the Oracle, CA, Official and EVE P&P boards. Sometimes I drive myself crazy waiting for 'the next' post. heh. So, anyway, with this and the other stuff I have to read, expect a short break whilst I digest the info and let it perculate. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Discorporation |
Posted - 2004.04.27 22:04:00 -
[105]
inhalers are geeky, m'kay [Heterocephalus glaber] |
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2004.04.27 22:04:00 -
[106]
inhalers are geeky, m'kay |
Gaius Kador |
Posted - 2004.04.27 22:59:00 -
[107] Wow! Very interesting thread, but I'll go back and lurk now ;) ---------------------------------------------- |
 Gaius Kador PIE Inc. |
Posted - 2004.04.27 22:59:00 -
[108] Wow! Very interesting thread, but I'll go back and lurk now ;) ---------------------------------------------- |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.05.02 06:48:00 -
[109] Edited by: Wren on 02/08/2004 07:46:37 Edited by: Wren on 02/08/2004 07:45:05 Here is what I am working on right now. A truely wise shaman would use basically 'tools' from any or all of the above. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.05.02 06:48:00 -
[110] Edited by: Wren on 02/08/2004 07:46:37 Edited by: Wren on 02/08/2004 07:45:05 Here is what I am working on right now. A truely wise shaman would use basically 'tools' from any or all of the above. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Darius Shakor |
Posted - 2004.05.02 11:55:00 -
[111] Interesting stuff wren. I also see the minmatar as being more of a black arts race too. However, it's not all as dark as it sounds. A main part of such as voodoo is the use of inhaled drugs as a medium to communicate with their ancestors and the gods of the earth etc. I might need to look that stuff up but I saw another documentary on the descovery channel about Haiti and the use of voodoo. Their main shaman would take all sorts of things and then claim to be posessed by such gods as those of the clouds (for rain) so the people of the village would ask for rain for their crops, and the gods of the earth for a good growing season. And it is still practiced today. Another interesting point that i see a parralell with minmatar culture (and something you touched upon with the temporary shrines you talked about once here) was that when Haiti was influenced by the Roman Catholoc church, their "heathen" religion was near dismantled. However, the true belivers would simply take the saints and other religious figures of the catholic church and use them to represent their own faith in their minds, and fool the catholic church into thinking that their prayers to a particular god of voodoo in the chaple was a prayer to the catholic saints and god. And traditional figures and carvings of voodoo were replaced by pot figures of the virgin mary, though their meaning to them was simply the same as the old figures. Another thing I want to ask is, have you concidered talking with CCP to make this more official? Maybe you could cooperate with their fiction writers with the information you have and they can bring their own into it that would keep in line with prime fiction. Then they could publish it as being the first piece of player contribution to prime fiction specific to the minmatar race players. People are always saying they want more official player shaping of the role play aspect of this game. This could be the first step. ------ Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at |
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.05.02 11:55:00 -
[112] Interesting stuff wren. I also see the minmatar as being more of a black arts race too. However, it's not all as dark as it sounds. A main part of such as voodoo is the use of inhaled drugs as a medium to communicate with their ancestors and the gods of the earth etc. I might need to look that stuff up but I saw another documentary on the descovery channel about Haiti and the use of voodoo. Their main shaman would take all sorts of things and then claim to be posessed by such gods as those of the clouds (for rain) so the people of the village would ask for rain for their crops, and the gods of the earth for a good growing season. And it is still practiced today. Another interesting point that i see a parralell with minmatar culture (and something you touched upon with the temporary shrines you talked about once here) was that when Haiti was influenced by the Roman Catholoc church, their "heathen" religion was near dismantled. However, the true belivers would simply take the saints and other religious figures of the catholic church and use them to represent their own faith in their minds, and fool the catholic church into thinking that their prayers to a particular god of voodoo in the chaple was a prayer to the catholic saints and god. And traditional figures and carvings of voodoo were replaced by pot figures of the virgin mary, though their meaning to them was simply the same as the old figures. Another thing I want to ask is, have you concidered talking with CCP to make this more official? Maybe you could cooperate with their fiction writers with the information you have and they can bring their own into it that would keep in line with prime fiction. Then they could publish it as being the first piece of player contribution to prime fiction specific to the minmatar race players. People are always saying they want more official player shaping of the role play aspect of this game. This could be the first step. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.05.03 05:29:00 -
[113] The tools of the TechnoShaman: Auditory and visual stimulus û The shaman can use lights and sounds to alter the mood, perceptions, and energy levels of individuals as well as groups. Dancing, singing, chanting, or performing can be involved. (think the Zion ôraveö during matrix 2). High tech sound systems, laser lights and holographic emission are some of the more common tools used. Random Icon/number generation û the shaman can use a number of means to randomly generate icons, symbols, numbers or letters, and then interprets them. Data pads, dice, lots, holographic emitters, magnetic pieces (which when tossed connect in random ways to generate icons or characters), or chemicals (making different colors and transparencies) can be used in this random generation. Spirit Wanderlust û This injected drug effects the brain. The injection is given through the jugular vein or the tear duct. The user experiences an almost immediate hallucination, the length of which is determined by the dose. Usually, this is kept to within an hour, as any longer the danger of permanent brain damage starts to increase dramatically. Side effects from the drug are inability to sleep, headaches, blurred vision and speech, temporary paralysis, and in some cases reduction of short term memory. Bio-luminescent chemicals û A new addition to the shaman tools is a chemical which when properly mixed with the combined blood of all the participants creates a colorless, odorless, and permanent ink which will glow in a variety of colors when pressed against an area of skin marked with the same batch of ink. This has been used in recent years for tattoos of brides and grooms, blood brothers, or adopted children and parents. Death Spikes û this line of chemical injections simulate near death symptoms. There are some that effect heart rate, breathing, blood pressure, and other vital life functions. Users are placed into a state near death where they can experience hallucinations or introspective journeys. These are very dangerous drugs, and many who use them never fully recover, some even die. The injections are given in different areas, from the heart, spine, throat, or arms. Stardust û This is an inhaled chemical powder which expands consciousness and causes hallucinations. The powder also affects the endorphin generators. This drug is highly addictive. The shaman will hold a fistful of the powder and blow it into the nose and mouth of the user, however abusers of the drug just snort it. Withdraw from this drug can lead to depression, confusion and disorientation, shakes, and in some cases bleeding tear ducts. Other drugs û many other drugs can be used to journey into the self consciousness or spiritual world. There are others used purely for their mood altering effects. Any chemical substance used on someone can be called a part of technoshamanism if the individual can learn more about himself or the spiritual world around him. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.05.03 05:29:00 -
[114] The tools of the TechnoShaman: Auditory and visual stimulus û The shaman can use lights and sounds to alter the mood, perceptions, and energy levels of individuals as well as groups. Dancing, singing, chanting, or performing can be involved. (think the Zion ôraveö during matrix 2). High tech sound systems, laser lights and holographic emission are some of the more common tools used. Random Icon/number generation û the shaman can use a number of means to randomly generate icons, symbols, numbers or letters, and then interprets them. Data pads, dice, lots, holographic emitters, magnetic pieces (which when tossed connect in random ways to generate icons or characters), or chemicals (making different colors and transparencies) can be used in this random generation. Spirit Wanderlust û This injected drug effects the brain. The injection is given through the jugular vein or the tear duct. The user experiences an almost immediate hallucination, the length of which is determined by the dose. Usually, this is kept to within an hour, as any longer the danger of permanent brain damage starts to increase dramatically. Side effects from the drug are inability to sleep, headaches, blurred vision and speech, temporary paralysis, and in some cases reduction of short term memory. Bio-luminescent chemicals û A new addition to the shaman tools is a chemical which when properly mixed with the combined blood of all the participants creates a colorless, odorless, and permanent ink which will glow in a variety of colors when pressed against an area of skin marked with the same batch of ink. This has been used in recent years for tattoos of brides and grooms, blood brothers, or adopted children and parents. Death Spikes û this line of chemical injections simulate near death symptoms. There are some that effect heart rate, breathing, blood pressure, and other vital life functions. Users are placed into a state near death where they can experience hallucinations or introspective journeys. These are very dangerous drugs, and many who use them never fully recover, some even die. The injections are given in different areas, from the heart, spine, throat, or arms. Stardust û This is an inhaled chemical powder which expands consciousness and causes hallucinations. The powder also affects the endorphin generators. This drug is highly addictive. The shaman will hold a fistful of the powder and blow it into the nose and mouth of the user, however abusers of the drug just snort it. Withdraw from this drug can lead to depression, confusion and disorientation, shakes, and in some cases bleeding tear ducts. Other drugs û many other drugs can be used to journey into the self consciousness or spiritual world. There are others used purely for their mood altering effects. Any chemical substance used on someone can be called a part of technoshamanism if the individual can learn more about himself or the spiritual world around him. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.05.03 09:07:00 -
[115] Elemental thoughts: Instead of the four elements we see used alot, Earth, Fire, Water and Wind/Air, I think it would be interesting to discuss a possibility that the Minmatar see seven, since seven appears to be a special number for the Minmatar. Heat Cold Solid Liquid Gas Light Darkness As you can see, you can still get anything by using one or a combination of elements. Any thoughts? -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.05.03 09:07:00 -
[116] Elemental thoughts: Instead of the four elements we see used alot, Earth, Fire, Water and Wind/Air, I think it would be interesting to discuss a possibility that the Minmatar see seven, since seven appears to be a special number for the Minmatar. Heat Cold Solid Liquid Gas Light Darkness As you can see, you can still get anything by using one or a combination of elements. Any thoughts? ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Tsual |
Posted - 2004.05.03 15:47:00 -
[117]
Interesting thought, so for every thing you either get a dual mixing system (a primary attribute element and secondary attribute element), or a triagonal classification system (one base element, an attribute element and an "flavour" element) -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2004.05.03 15:47:00 -
[118]
Interesting thought, so for every thing you either get a dual mixing system (a primary attribute element and secondary attribute element), or a triagonal classification system (one base element, an attribute element and an "flavour" element) Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.05.04 03:44:00 -
[119] Yeah, why make it simple. Any other comments on Elements or Technoshamanism? If not I will move to the next few classifications I have earlier up. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.05.04 03:44:00 -
[120] Yeah, why make it simple. Any other comments on Elements or Technoshamanism? If not I will move to the next few classifications I have earlier up. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Tsual |
Posted - 2004.05.05 07:54:00 -
[121]
So mainly we organized crime, tribal structure and educational procedure. About Tribal strcuture the back ground file tells us following:
Initial thought: Taking this out we would for example have a constellation sitting brutor family clan, divide into solar system or planet residing sub-clans. Additional two or three of the family clans of brutor or sebestior would be mainly space faring. just my 0.02 isk -------------------------------------- Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2004.05.05 07:54:00 -
[122]
So mainly we organized crime, tribal structure and educational procedure. About Tribal strcuture the back ground file tells us following:
Initial thought: Taking this out we would for example have a constellation sitting brutor family clan, divide into solar system or planet residing sub-clans. Additional two or three of the family clans of brutor or sebestior would be mainly space faring. just my 0.02 isk Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.05.10 08:19:00 -
[123] Runes: Runes are symbols that are used to discribe not only a sound, but something physical as well as spritual or beyond the physical. Runes can be spoken, written, or visualized. Combinations of runes can be used to record knowlege. This knowlege is dynamic, and as the universe changes, so too does the meaning of the combined runes. There are probably several different sets of runes spread out amounst the Minmatar. Probably two distinct sets, one for the Sebiestor and one for the Brutor, and then sub-sets of these, however, a true runemaster would have knowlege of as many runes as he can. The runes can impart power to items (if only percieved by the practitioners of runic arts), or ward the user or his companions. ----------------------------------------------------------- Body or self: This catagory can be known as physical adepts. These are people who delve into the mysteries and energies of the human body. They percieve themselves as energy as well as matter, and tap into this energy to shape their perceptions, thoughts and feelings. This can be anyone who achieves a level of supreme or professional knowlege in a physical activity. Miners who split rocks all day might experience a piece of mind and clarity where every strike with the pick hits the exact area they want. Maybe a farmer whose plow sinks to the perfect depth repeatedly. Most cases however, it takes years of training in a way that emphisizes the relationship of the physical affecting the spiritual and emotional aspects of the self. Usually, these sort of people discribe an energy that connects all life. There are probably many types of religions or schools for this training. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.05.10 08:19:00 -
[124] Runes: Runes are symbols that are used to discribe not only a sound, but something physical as well as spritual or beyond the physical. Runes can be spoken, written, or visualized. Combinations of runes can be used to record knowlege. This knowlege is dynamic, and as the universe changes, so too does the meaning of the combined runes. There are probably several different sets of runes spread out amounst the Minmatar. Probably two distinct sets, one for the Sebiestor and one for the Brutor, and then sub-sets of these, however, a true runemaster would have knowlege of as many runes as he can. The runes can impart power to items (if only percieved by the practitioners of runic arts), or ward the user or his companions. ----------------------------------------------------------- Body or self: This catagory can be known as physical adepts. These are people who delve into the mysteries and energies of the human body. They percieve themselves as energy as well as matter, and tap into this energy to shape their perceptions, thoughts and feelings. This can be anyone who achieves a level of supreme or professional knowlege in a physical activity. Miners who split rocks all day might experience a piece of mind and clarity where every strike with the pick hits the exact area they want. Maybe a farmer whose plow sinks to the perfect depth repeatedly. Most cases however, it takes years of training in a way that emphisizes the relationship of the physical affecting the spiritual and emotional aspects of the self. Usually, these sort of people discribe an energy that connects all life. There are probably many types of religions or schools for this training. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Kakita Jalaan |
Posted - 2004.05.12 18:14:00 -
[125] Just want to say, I'm still watching this thread, and there is some very good material in it. I really like the background you're providing, Wren. By the way, the p&p is nearing a stage where playtests could conceivably be conducted by people familiar with the World of Eve. |
Kakita Jalaan Viriette Commerce and Holding |
Posted - 2004.05.12 18:14:00 -
[126] Just want to say, I'm still watching this thread, and there is some very good material in it. I really like the background you're providing, Wren. By the way, the p&p is nearing a stage where playtests could conceivably be conducted by people familiar with the World of Eve. ______________ Join the Family |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.05.20 11:45:00 -
[127] Okay, I am going to write up some examples of several of the different kinds of rituals. If any of the others want to help, eve-mail me or convo me at any time. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.05.20 11:45:00 -
[128] Okay, I am going to write up some examples of several of the different kinds of rituals. If any of the others want to help, eve-mail me or convo me at any time. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.08.02 07:47:00 -
[129] I uh, basically haven't done anything in the last few weeks with this stuff. Let me know if I should reread all of this and continue work. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.08.02 07:47:00 -
[130] I uh, basically haven't done anything in the last few weeks with this stuff. Let me know if I should reread all of this and continue work. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.08.02 07:47:00 -
[131] I uh, basically haven't done anything in the last few weeks with this stuff. Let me know if I should reread all of this and continue work. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Darius Shakor |
Posted - 2004.08.02 09:00:00 -
[132] I am still interested in this. It would be a valuable refference for anyone making their own stories on Minmatar interactions. ------ Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at |
Darius Shakor |
Posted - 2004.08.02 09:00:00 -
[133] I am still interested in this. It would be a valuable refference for anyone making their own stories on Minmatar interactions. ------ Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at |
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.08.02 09:00:00 -
[134] I am still interested in this. It would be a valuable refference for anyone making their own stories on Minmatar interactions. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.08.03 07:25:00 -
[135] So what is needed, a sort of encyclopedia with rituals or ritualistic basics, or... Going back and reading from the front, the original idea was to see how involved the average Minmatar was in the ritualistic/tribal practices while still being a member of a modern and techno savvy culture. I still don't have any clue or frame of refrence on how any of this ritualistic stuff plays a part in day to day life. Is it regulated? Are there appointed or elected or whatever people who sponser, mediate, or preside over public rituals? Elders? Do they carry as much clout as say, a successful business man/woman? Scientist? Blargh. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.08.03 07:25:00 -
[136] So what is needed, a sort of encyclopedia with rituals or ritualistic basics, or... Going back and reading from the front, the original idea was to see how involved the average Minmatar was in the ritualistic/tribal practices while still being a member of a modern and techno savvy culture. I still don't have any clue or frame of refrence on how any of this ritualistic stuff plays a part in day to day life. Is it regulated? Are there appointed or elected or whatever people who sponser, mediate, or preside over public rituals? Elders? Do they carry as much clout as say, a successful business man/woman? Scientist? Blargh. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.08.03 07:25:00 -
[137] So what is needed, a sort of encyclopedia with rituals or ritualistic basics, or... Going back and reading from the front, the original idea was to see how involved the average Minmatar was in the ritualistic/tribal practices while still being a member of a modern and techno savvy culture. I still don't have any clue or frame of refrence on how any of this ritualistic stuff plays a part in day to day life. Is it regulated? Are there appointed or elected or whatever people who sponser, mediate, or preside over public rituals? Elders? Do they carry as much clout as say, a successful business man/woman? Scientist? Blargh. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Makkar |
Posted - 2004.08.03 11:54:00 -
[138] I suppose if you're talking about how a shamanistic culture could manifest in the cities of Matar, you've only to look at FASA's Shadowrunÿ, and the street shamans in that. You could also consider voodoun, and such elements of Haitian tradition. Voodoun's got elements of Catholicism and African tribal beliefs, melded together during centuries of enslavement. Not too dissimilar to the Minmatar's situation. The practitioners of such ritualistic arts are, (especially, but not exclusively in rural areas,) held in very high regard, and with a certain amount of fear. The thing to bear in mind is that most of the Minmatar culture is gone. What remains has been rebuilt from memories and stories passed down through generations of slaves. Memories and stories are not immutable. One's only got to play Chinese Whispers to realise that. Each generation, and each storyteller, will add their own embelishment and view on the story, and which bits are most noteworthy. The distinction between Brutor and Sebiestor must also, therefore, be a racial thing primarily, and a cultural thing as a secondary factor. After all, after generations of working side by side in slavery, it must be assumed that cultural stories from Brutor ethnics were passed on to Sebiestor, and vice versa. The same for the other tribal ethnic groups. These stories would be so intertwined by the time of the rebellion as to be inseperable. The reforging of the tribes and individual cultures could only have been guesswork, to my mind. It's therefore very likely that some of the tales told to Brutor children in modern Minmatar society will actually be of Sebiestor or Thukker or Krusal or whatever origin. So perhaps the question should be; How does one rebuild a culture one knows very little about? Are Minmatar living a self-perpetuated lie of their own making? It's likely. |
Makkar |
Posted - 2004.08.03 11:54:00 -
[139] I suppose if you're talking about how a shamanistic culture could manifest in the cities of Matar, you've only to look at FASA's Shadowrunÿ, and the street shamans in that. You could also consider voodoun, and such elements of Haitian tradition. Voodoun's got elements of Catholicism and African tribal beliefs, melded together during centuries of enslavement. Not too dissimilar to the Minmatar's situation. The practitioners of such ritualistic arts are, (especially, but not exclusively in rural areas,) held in very high regard, and with a certain amount of fear. The thing to bear in mind is that most of the Minmatar culture is gone. What remains has been rebuilt from memories and stories passed down through generations of slaves. Memories and stories are not immutable. One's only got to play Chinese Whispers to realise that. Each generation, and each storyteller, will add their own embelishment and view on the story, and which bits are most noteworthy. The distinction between Brutor and Sebiestor must also, therefore, be a racial thing primarily, and a cultural thing as a secondary factor. After all, after generations of working side by side in slavery, it must be assumed that cultural stories from Brutor ethnics were passed on to Sebiestor, and vice versa. The same for the other tribal ethnic groups. These stories would be so intertwined by the time of the rebellion as to be inseperable. The reforging of the tribes and individual cultures could only have been guesswork, to my mind. It's therefore very likely that some of the tales told to Brutor children in modern Minmatar society will actually be of Sebiestor or Thukker or Krusal or whatever origin. So perhaps the question should be; How does one rebuild a culture one knows very little about? Are Minmatar living a self-perpetuated lie of their own making? It's likely. |
 Makkar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.08.03 11:54:00 -
[140] I suppose if you're talking about how a shamanistic culture could manifest in the cities of Matar, you've only to look at FASA's Shadowrunÿ, and the street shamans in that. You could also consider voodoun, and such elements of Haitian tradition. Voodoun's got elements of Catholicism and African tribal beliefs, melded together during centuries of enslavement. Not too dissimilar to the Minmatar's situation. The practitioners of such ritualistic arts are, (especially, but not exclusively in rural areas,) held in very high regard, and with a certain amount of fear. The thing to bear in mind is that most of the Minmatar culture is gone. What remains has been rebuilt from memories and stories passed down through generations of slaves. Memories and stories are not immutable. One's only got to play Chinese Whispers to realise that. Each generation, and each storyteller, will add their own embelishment and view on the story, and which bits are most noteworthy. The distinction between Brutor and Sebiestor must also, therefore, be a racial thing primarily, and a cultural thing as a secondary factor. After all, after generations of working side by side in slavery, it must be assumed that cultural stories from Brutor ethnics were passed on to Sebiestor, and vice versa. The same for the other tribal ethnic groups. These stories would be so intertwined by the time of the rebellion as to be inseperable. The reforging of the tribes and individual cultures could only have been guesswork, to my mind. It's therefore very likely that some of the tales told to Brutor children in modern Minmatar society will actually be of Sebiestor or Thukker or Krusal or whatever origin. So perhaps the question should be; How does one rebuild a culture one knows very little about? Are Minmatar living a self-perpetuated lie of their own making? It's likely. |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.08.03 12:12:00 -
[141] It's not only likely, but more like assuredly. Also, I wonder how many elements in current Minmatar rituals/rites/practices have other race's roots, learned or snatched from the other peoples enslaved by the Amarrians. How do you rebuild a culture? It looks like certain fragments of the culture that escaped Amarrian squeltching are important, but one wonders if there was even more important or widely accepted or used pieces that were totally wiped out through systematic means from the Amarrian holders/propagandists. Maybe orginally all Brutors were vegetarians. Maybe all Thukkers used to wear kilts/skirts. Maybe maybe maybe, but all that stuff was lost. So I guess we would have to see what is actually left. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.08.03 12:12:00 -
[142] It's not only likely, but more like assuredly. Also, I wonder how many elements in current Minmatar rituals/rites/practices have other race's roots, learned or snatched from the other peoples enslaved by the Amarrians. How do you rebuild a culture? It looks like certain fragments of the culture that escaped Amarrian squeltching are important, but one wonders if there was even more important or widely accepted or used pieces that were totally wiped out through systematic means from the Amarrian holders/propagandists. Maybe orginally all Brutors were vegetarians. Maybe all Thukkers used to wear kilts/skirts. Maybe maybe maybe, but all that stuff was lost. So I guess we would have to see what is actually left. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.08.03 12:12:00 -
[143] It's not only likely, but more like assuredly. Also, I wonder how many elements in current Minmatar rituals/rites/practices have other race's roots, learned or snatched from the other peoples enslaved by the Amarrians. How do you rebuild a culture? It looks like certain fragments of the culture that escaped Amarrian squeltching are important, but one wonders if there was even more important or widely accepted or used pieces that were totally wiped out through systematic means from the Amarrian holders/propagandists. Maybe orginally all Brutors were vegetarians. Maybe all Thukkers used to wear kilts/skirts. Maybe maybe maybe, but all that stuff was lost. So I guess we would have to see what is actually left. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Gaelbhan Wulf |
Posted - 2004.08.03 16:39:00 -
[144]
I agree with that Shintoko. The modern age has even enveloped the Aborigines of Australia, a people with over 50,000 years of collective, remembered history. In many cases, the only way we will be able to 'relate' what has happened to humans here on Earth and what we think would happen to humans in Eve is through symbolism. ______________________ . . . a devouring fever runs in flame through every vein within me . . ." |
Gaelbhan Wulf |
Posted - 2004.08.03 16:39:00 -
[145]
I agree with that Shintoko. The modern age has even enveloped the Aborigines of Australia, a people with over 50,000 years of collective, remembered history. In many cases, the only way we will be able to 'relate' what has happened to humans here on Earth and what we think would happen to humans in Eve is through symbolism. ______________________ . . . a devouring fever runs in flame through every vein within me . . ." |
 Gaelbhan Wulf Minmatar Doomheim |
Posted - 2004.08.03 16:39:00 -
[146]
I agree with that Shintoko. The modern age has even enveloped the Aborigines of Australia, a people with over 50,000 years of collective, remembered history. In many cases, the only way we will be able to 'relate' what has happened to humans here on Earth and what we think would happen to humans in Eve is through symbolism. ______________________ . . . a devouring fever runs in flame through every vein within me . . ." |
Darius Shakor |
Posted - 2004.08.04 22:08:00 -
[147]
it doesn't really have to play a part, just to be there. Compulsary? Not really. Look as the muslim religion. I know and work with people from Pakistan and the U.A.E. Some are heavily religious and practice regularly and take part in the religious ceremonies, others do not, but their faith is there. They just belive in going about it in a different, and more laid back way.
I want to tackle this issue with the last part of my first character bio book. He becomes the head of the clan. In the clan there is a lot of in-fighting between eldars who are heavy on ritual and tradition, and the modernists of the clan. To give you an idea, watch the film, "The Last Samurai" with Tom Cruise in it. The last of the samurai mount a revolt over the emperors plans to modernise Japan. What I am getting at is that this is on a case by case basis. Some clans will be ardent traditionalist, others a lose association of modern thinkers such as business men. And you will always get the occasional mixed bag too.
Your answer...
I saw a prog about Haiti and modern voodoo and how the people there in the past under a strong catholoc rule used to take the deities of the Catholics and prey to their own spirits or gods through them. After all, a statue of christ on the cross is just a lump of wood and gold representing the essence. All they did was to change the essence of what it meant to them.
God forbid. I love my steaks too much to go veggie.  ------ Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at |
Darius Shakor |
Posted - 2004.08.04 22:08:00 -
[148]
it doesn't really have to play a part, just to be there. Compulsary? Not really. Look as the muslim religion. I know and work with people from Pakistan and the U.A.E. Some are heavily religious and practice regularly and take part in the religious ceremonies, others do not, but their faith is there. They just belive in going about it in a different, and more laid back way.
I want to tackle this issue with the last part of my first character bio book. He becomes the head of the clan. In the clan there is a lot of in-fighting between eldars who are heavy on ritual and tradition, and the modernists of the clan. To give you an idea, watch the film, "The Last Samurai" with Tom Cruise in it. The last of the samurai mount a revolt over the emperors plans to modernise Japan. What I am getting at is that this is on a case by case basis. Some clans will be ardent traditionalist, others a lose association of modern thinkers such as business men. And you will always get the occasional mixed bag too.
Your answer...
I saw a prog about Haiti and modern voodoo and how the people there in the past under a strong catholoc rule used to take the deities of the Catholics and prey to their own spirits or gods through them. After all, a statue of christ on the cross is just a lump of wood and gold representing the essence. All they did was to change the essence of what it meant to them.
God forbid. I love my steaks too much to go veggie. ------ Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at |
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.08.04 22:08:00 -
[149]
it doesn't really have to play a part, just to be there. Compulsary? Not really. Look as the muslim religion. I know and work with people from Pakistan and the U.A.E. Some are heavily religious and practice regularly and take part in the religious ceremonies, others do not, but their faith is there. They just belive in going about it in a different, and more laid back way.
I want to tackle this issue with the last part of my first character bio book. He becomes the head of the clan. In the clan there is a lot of in-fighting between eldars who are heavy on ritual and tradition, and the modernists of the clan. To give you an idea, watch the film, "The Last Samurai" with Tom Cruise in it. The last of the samurai mount a revolt over the emperors plans to modernise Japan. What I am getting at is that this is on a case by case basis. Some clans will be ardent traditionalist, others a lose association of modern thinkers such as business men. And you will always get the occasional mixed bag too.
Your answer...
I saw a prog about Haiti and modern voodoo and how the people there in the past under a strong catholoc rule used to take the deities of the Catholics and prey to their own spirits or gods through them. After all, a statue of christ on the cross is just a lump of wood and gold representing the essence. All they did was to change the essence of what it meant to them.
God forbid. I love my steaks too much to go veggie. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal |
SaH TohRI |
Posted - 2004.08.05 09:20:00 -
[150] Very interesting and ispiring thread  I suggest this site for some further inspiration.on shamanism, holism and other interesting readings. my 2 isks |
SaH TohRI |
Posted - 2004.08.05 09:20:00 -
[151] Very interesting and ispiring thread I suggest this site for some further inspiration.on shamanism, holism and other interesting readings. my 2 isks |
 SaH TohRI Minmatar Dark Horizon inc. |
Posted - 2004.08.05 09:20:00 -
[152] Very interesting and ispiring thread I suggest this site for some further inspiration.on shamanism, holism and other interesting readings. my 2 isks |
Calisto Lockhart |
Posted - 2004.08.09 13:15:00 -
[153] i agree with what Darius Shakor said about all the clans being different, i mean look at all the faith etc on earth and then imagine this multiplyed by the amount of space that the minmatar occupy. the diversity is almost infinate. some good ideas though guys |
Calisto Lockhart |
Posted - 2004.08.09 13:15:00 -
[154] i agree with what Darius Shakor said about all the clans being different, i mean look at all the faith etc on earth and then imagine this multiplyed by the amount of space that the minmatar occupy. the diversity is almost infinate. some good ideas though guys |
 Calisto Lockhart Minmatar Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2004.08.09 13:15:00 -
[155] i agree with what Darius Shakor said about all the clans being different, i mean look at all the faith etc on earth and then imagine this multiplyed by the amount of space that the minmatar occupy. the diversity is almost infinate. some good ideas though guys Stormriders |
Calisto Lockhart |
Posted - 2004.08.09 13:18:00 -
[156] Edited by: Calisto Lockhart on 09/08/2004 13:20:32 Edited by: Calisto Lockhart on 09/08/2004 13:20:17 plus multiply by the amount of time that this space has been occupied |
Calisto Lockhart |
Posted - 2004.08.09 13:18:00 -
[157] Edited by: Calisto Lockhart on 09/08/2004 13:20:32 Edited by: Calisto Lockhart on 09/08/2004 13:20:17 plus multiply by the amount of time that this space has been occupied |
Calisto Lockhart Minmatar Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2004.08.09 13:18:00 -
[158] Edited by: Calisto Lockhart on 09/08/2004 13:20:32 Edited by: Calisto Lockhart on 09/08/2004 13:20:17 plus multiply by the amount of time that this space has been occupied Stormriders |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.08.17 10:41:00 -
[159] So I guess after rereading all of this, I have to think that the culture is just a mixed bag of different things thrown together and haphazzardly, using broken/fragmented stories from before the occupation as well as actual but probably distorted and evolved traditions and customs. So what can one do? Well, I guess I can sit down and write some sort of short discription of the general idea of each type of ritualistic root, kinda what I have been doing, except not so specific on the actual pieces inside each group, so yeah, Shamanism, but this can cover Animal totems, techno, hollistic, and so on and so on. Individual clans could, and probably would have their own distinct and varied customs and traditions, even if it meant break away clans. Basically, you are looking at a near infinate amount of choices here, but maybe with a little foundation of ideas, these choices and backgrounds for characters can be fleshed out a bit. I wish CCP would give us a list of the effects of say, a dozen voluval markings are. That would help a bunch, but it doesn't seem like it will happen. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren |
Posted - 2004.08.17 10:41:00 -
[160] So I guess after rereading all of this, I have to think that the culture is just a mixed bag of different things thrown together and haphazzardly, using broken/fragmented stories from before the occupation as well as actual but probably distorted and evolved traditions and customs. So what can one do? Well, I guess I can sit down and write some sort of short discription of the general idea of each type of ritualistic root, kinda what I have been doing, except not so specific on the actual pieces inside each group, so yeah, Shamanism, but this can cover Animal totems, techno, hollistic, and so on and so on. Individual clans could, and probably would have their own distinct and varied customs and traditions, even if it meant break away clans. Basically, you are looking at a near infinate amount of choices here, but maybe with a little foundation of ideas, these choices and backgrounds for characters can be fleshed out a bit. I wish CCP would give us a list of the effects of say, a dozen voluval markings are. That would help a bunch, but it doesn't seem like it will happen. -------------------------------------------------- |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2004.08.17 10:41:00 -
[161] So I guess after rereading all of this, I have to think that the culture is just a mixed bag of different things thrown together and haphazzardly, using broken/fragmented stories from before the occupation as well as actual but probably distorted and evolved traditions and customs. So what can one do? Well, I guess I can sit down and write some sort of short discription of the general idea of each type of ritualistic root, kinda what I have been doing, except not so specific on the actual pieces inside each group, so yeah, Shamanism, but this can cover Animal totems, techno, hollistic, and so on and so on. Individual clans could, and probably would have their own distinct and varied customs and traditions, even if it meant break away clans. Basically, you are looking at a near infinate amount of choices here, but maybe with a little foundation of ideas, these choices and backgrounds for characters can be fleshed out a bit. I wish CCP would give us a list of the effects of say, a dozen voluval markings are. That would help a bunch, but it doesn't seem like it will happen. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Gaelbhan Wulf |
Posted - 2004.08.17 17:12:00 -
[162] As previously mentioned in other posts of this thread, we cannot forget that clans sometimes grow from an event rather than connection to family or tribe. I'm speaking of those who are 'banned', mainly Matari whose Voluval Destiny Marks were less than desireable. For the sake of nomenclature, I am calling them the Degraded in my stories that I write. The stigma of not looking like the 'rest of us', of having scars or marks or other 'imperfections' and being ridiculed or even banned is a sad commentary on our current times, and so it is with the Matari whose Destiny Mark isn't favorable. These particular Matari are prevented from joining their family/tribe activities because of shame. They are really a microcosm of what happened to Matari during the Amarr occupation, with the exception that it is now their own family that treats them shamefully. What do they do after they are run 'out on a rail'? Do they continue to trust and believe in the traditions and rituals since it was a ritual that just turned their life upside down? Do they truly wander a solitary life, perhaps even mentally geared toward murder and other sociopathic tendencies? In my opinion, as stated in the Ray of Matar, there is a great stigma associated (with generous dose of unrealized fear) from seeing another Matari banned because of the degrading mark. Just as Karin was sitting away from the ceremony for a time, pondering her problems and emotional issues, I think I see another Matari on the opposite hill -- watching the Voluval as it progresses, watching in case a Matari should receive a ''wrong' kind of mark, ready to snatch up the poor soul and bring them into the Clan of the Degraded. ______________________ . . . a devouring fever runs in flame through every vein within me . . ." |
Gaelbhan Wulf |
Posted - 2004.08.17 17:12:00 -
[163] As previously mentioned in other posts of this thread, we cannot forget that clans sometimes grow from an event rather than connection to family or tribe. I'm speaking of those who are 'banned', mainly Matari whose Voluval Destiny Marks were less than desireable. For the sake of nomenclature, I am calling them the Degraded in my stories that I write. The stigma of not looking like the 'rest of us', of having scars or marks or other 'imperfections' and being ridiculed or even banned is a sad commentary on our current times, and so it is with the Matari whose Destiny Mark isn't favorable. These particular Matari are prevented from joining their family/tribe activities because of shame. They are really a microcosm of what happened to Matari during the Amarr occupation, with the exception that it is now their own family that treats them shamefully. What do they do after they are run 'out on a rail'? Do they continue to trust and believe in the traditions and rituals since it was a ritual that just turned their life upside down? Do they truly wander a solitary life, perhaps even mentally geared toward murder and other sociopathic tendencies? In my opinion, as stated in the Ray of Matar, there is a great stigma associated (with generous dose of unrealized fear) from seeing another Matari banned because of the degrading mark. Just as Karin was sitting away from the ceremony for a time, pondering her problems and emotional issues, I think I see another Matari on the opposite hill -- watching the Voluval as it progresses, watching in case a Matari should receive a ''wrong' kind of mark, ready to snatch up the poor soul and bring them into the Clan of the Degraded. ______________________ . . . a devouring fever runs in flame through every vein within me . . ." |
Gaelbhan Wulf Minmatar Doomheim |
Posted - 2004.08.17 17:12:00 -
[164] As previously mentioned in other posts of this thread, we cannot forget that clans sometimes grow from an event rather than connection to family or tribe. I'm speaking of those who are 'banned', mainly Matari whose Voluval Destiny Marks were less than desireable. For the sake of nomenclature, I am calling them the Degraded in my stories that I write. The stigma of not looking like the 'rest of us', of having scars or marks or other 'imperfections' and being ridiculed or even banned is a sad commentary on our current times, and so it is with the Matari whose Destiny Mark isn't favorable. These particular Matari are prevented from joining their family/tribe activities because of shame. They are really a microcosm of what happened to Matari during the Amarr occupation, with the exception that it is now their own family that treats them shamefully. What do they do after they are run 'out on a rail'? Do they continue to trust and believe in the traditions and rituals since it was a ritual that just turned their life upside down? Do they truly wander a solitary life, perhaps even mentally geared toward murder and other sociopathic tendencies? In my opinion, as stated in the Ray of Matar, there is a great stigma associated (with generous dose of unrealized fear) from seeing another Matari banned because of the degrading mark. Just as Karin was sitting away from the ceremony for a time, pondering her problems and emotional issues, I think I see another Matari on the opposite hill -- watching the Voluval as it progresses, watching in case a Matari should receive a ''wrong' kind of mark, ready to snatch up the poor soul and bring them into the Clan of the Degraded. ______________________ . . . a devouring fever runs in flame through every vein within me . . ." |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.03.23 15:56:00 -
[165] Brining this back for people who have too much time on their hands. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2007.03.24 14:58:00 -
[166] Tribal gatherings would prolly be the same as they are in tribal cultures, they get together, have some ceremonial food, tribal chanting, the witch doctor says a few words followed by food and celebration and dancing, then everybody takes the party to their hut. If you think about it, not real different from a Sunday church picnic. |
 Dag Nabbitt |
Posted - 2007.03.24 19:13:00 -
[167] Wow, Lot of interesting stuff in this thread. To get back to the whole "tribal" thing (and away from mysticism and technoshamanism)... here are a few of "tribal" type situations that might be familiar to Americans, at least. If you go back a couple of generations, you have the Irish, Italians, Jews, and so on viewed as distinct, different groups in a way that's much stronger than it is today. The notion of an Irish neighborhood, filled with policemen and firemen, for example, with a common ethnic and community identity... that's a tribal concept. Things like the Mafia, or Tongs... these are groups that are based on tribal identities of their communities. They support, say, Italian businesses, but also prey on them. At some level, what the Amarr are trying to do is to destroy the cultures of these other groups and assimilate them, as lower class citizens, into their society. One can look at the American black experience for this... descendants of slaves, as a people, they now have more identification with America than with Africa, culturally. For examples of inter-tribal conflict, you can look at Rwanda, or Yugoslavia, or Northern Ireland, or the Basque people. Tribal doesn't have to mean primitive and animistic. It doesn't have to mean hand-holding and singing kum-ba-yah, or calling each other "friend" instead of "dude". Another example of the same kind of thing... Sports team loyalty. North Side vs West Side in Chicago-- Gangs. If you watch Battlestar Galactica (and everyone who likes this game should) there are subplots about deep class divisions between the different tribes there-- Capricans vs Sagittarans, and so on. They have tribes, they have a polytheistic religion, but they're very much like us in behavior. Dag |
 Taurevanime |
Posted - 2007.03.25 01:45:00 -
[168] Well a lot of interesting stuff to read. I haven't read everything yet since it's really late (3:30 in the morning) and I'd like to get a word in before I go to bed. I might not be playing EVE for long but as with everything I love and enjoy I immerse myself in it quite deeply and I seek to really do some proper roleplaying as I start meeting all the various roleplayers and getting to know them. Being Brutor (The Tribe that's most interested in reviving old traditions) my character and I myself am very keen to get involved in this. So Wren send me an eve-mail if you like to talk more and I'll give you my e-mail adress there. You'll understand that I won't post it on the forums. From my observations of the stories and names of the Minmatar ships and such. I have to say there seems to be a heavy Nordic influence with the Minmatar. However I don't know much about nordic shamans and their traditions, I think that's an entirely lost part of history in fact. But generally speaking I look at the Nordic religion to inspire me for names for my ships for example. I am greatly surprised that in relation to shamanism nobody suggested looking at two groups of well studied and still living people with shamans. The zulus of South-Africa and the Aboriginals in Australia. Both tend to as already described use trance like states in their rituals. Either through drugs or just dance. Since it's rather late my thoughts are a bit incoherent. And I'd really like to discuss this matter in a more instant messenger based enviroment if possible. On a side note I have a friend who composes music, and as I learn (/help develop) more of Matari culture, he might be interested in creating some music. Anyway I go sleep now. |
 Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in |
Posted - 2007.03.25 06:20:00 -
[169] What I have read about the Voluval bears a strong resemblance to certain Native American coming-of-age rituals. The difference is that instead of being injected to create a mark, one goes into the forest for a few days - fasting during this time - and discovers what their 'spirit' is. I suppose that the Native Americans might be a pretty good analogue - wait, I've got it! The Iroquois were a league of seven Native American tribes. They coexisted, not only with each other, but with the Europeans for a time - enough that the Iroquois League influenced the form of the US government. Perhaps someone should do some research on the Iroquois. They could make a really good analogue, both for culture and for government. ___ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom of Freedom |
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2007.03.25 10:48:00 -
[170] Well the empires are not really trying to represent ethnic groups or nationalities, they are trying to represent cultures. Minmatar is Tribal culture. Could apply to Germanic tribes, African tribes, American-Indian tribes, Jewish Tribes etc. The backstory is purposely ambiguous so people can project their own tribal views and experiences on their character. |
 Arnulf Ogunkoya Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari |
Posted - 2007.03.25 11:43:00 -
[171] Some thoughts. On religion. A lot of Norse deities are referenced in Matari ship names. This would seem to imply that at least one of the more technical tribes worship them in some fashion. As I recall there is a strong Norse shamanic tradition so that need not be contradictory to what has gone before in this thread. I would agree with the notion that some Amarrian symbols and practices might have been adopted to camouflage slaves trying to retain their own beliefs. What about interactions between the tribes on a day to day basis? My backstory has me as the child of a Brutor father and a Sebiestor mother. The idea is that I was raised under Sebiestor traditions after they divorced. How common would this sort of thing be? Regards, State of the Art Bang-Bang. |
Taurevanime |
Posted - 2007.03.25 16:02:00 -
[172] Well speaking of hiding tribal traditions in other faith symbols and such. I am from Curatao, an island in the Caribbean which used to be the centre of slave trade in the area. Most of the poeple that live there now are descended of former slaves and the local traditions are filled with African influences. I can look into getting some books on it all to provide a closer study. |
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in |
Posted - 2007.03.25 18:52:00 -
[173] My character, well, he's a recent immigrant, so he didn't undergo the Voluval. This brings up another question - what role do immigrants play in Matari society? Nachshon is among a small handful of people who joined the Republic for a variety of reasons - his are ideological. ___ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom of Freedom |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.03.26 17:50:00 -
[174] Edited by: Wren on 26/03/2007 17:50:05 Well, unfortunately, I would bet people who try to immigrate into Minmatar society would be looked at as second class, first you don't belong to the families (unless you marry in) and secondly you haven't participated in all the status rituals. I talked to Taurevanime last night and we thought of a few ideas. One would be to set up a basic foundation for each tribe in tribal terms, pulling from real world cultures to fix characteristics to them so then we could pull from that and make individual tribe rituals and a basis for judging how involved a character is in relation to the standard level of ritualisitc participation. I hope that made sense. What I am saying is we say for instance, Sebiestor are like X, the usual Sebiestor traditional participates in X hours a week. We would do this for the 4 major Republic tribes, and probably skip the Nefantar, Thukker and Starkmanir. Thukker don't even consider themselves tribal anymore, I don't think. On this foundation we could pound holes in it that the Amarrians would definately want removed to make each tribe managable, and then pull in aspects from the Amarrian religion that might make sense to be adapted/adopted. I also am going to read up on that island. Sounds interesting. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Taurevanime |
Posted - 2007.03.27 02:11:00 -
[175] Okay I'm going to start writing a Minmatar religion as religion is one of the most defining aspects of a culture. I have set myself two important goals with this religion. One I will try to incorperate the names of Norse Gods and mythological beings into it as well as work up a reason for their names even have such a clear relation with our own. Secondly I will make slightly altered version for the different tribes. So that while the names remain the same, the world and universe are different and suit that tribe more, as well as the acts committed. I will start with the Brutor as I know them and their ideals best and they seem to have the closest ideal to that of the ancient Norse. The first version of this is going to look a lot like the actuall Norse religion but I will attempt to make changes where possible to make it suit EVE a lot more. |
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in |
Posted - 2007.03.27 23:59:00 -
[176] I guess - though Nachshon's status as a capsuleer overrides his status as an immigrant. ___ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom of Freedom |
Taurevanime |
Posted - 2007.03.28 13:20:00 -
[177] Well immigration might be something where my island can prove for some nice experiences. Immigrants are generally loathed by the majority of the population and they will be insulted with racist remarks and such, but they won't be denied a job for being an immigrant. But you'll have to prove that your tough and can take the verbal abuse. And after a while after you've proven to be a good person, the people that know you will treat you with respect. Strangers might still occasionally call you some racist things. Of course you'll never be considered Matari unless you go through the voluval and other rituals that every Matari has gone through. But it's only like you're barred from attaining the highest positions and positions in the public light untill you do. What say you? |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:54:00 -
[178] What I would really like is two things: That book that Karin is reading with all the tattoo meanings A list of Destiny Marks, and the importance of where these Marks are. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Taurevanime |
Posted - 2007.03.28 23:25:00 -
[179] Okay I wrote a bit on Brutor Cosmology (This is how the universe is percieved by religion) It's a slight edit of the Norse cosmology which I used as a basis and you'll see some familiar names appears. In the Brutor cosmology the emptiness of the Gunningagap was filled by the sweat of Ymir creating a vast ocean of the universe. And the different 'planes' of existance are represented by islands in this vast and dangerous ocean. With the humans living on Midgard, an island made out of the remainder of the giant Ymir's body. It used to be a vast open plane but the fence the God's built started showing *****s and the vast ocean poured into Midgard, flooding most of it apart from a few islands. The icy world of Niflheim is represented as an island of ice. From time to time great chunks of ice break off and float across the ocean of the universe, these icebergs are the reason for the fence protecting Midgard to begin showing *****s. The hot world of Muspelheim is represented as a volcanic island filled with volcanos which constantly erupt, the heat of Muspelheim constantly fighting against the universal sea to hold it back. Vast collumns of steam forming were the Muspelheim meats the sea, the steam forming clouds. Upon the collumns of steam the Odin and the Gods created an island of clouds which they named Asgard and where they live. Where the sea meets Muspelheim the the three Norns live, weaving the winds of destiny to keep the collumns of steam from dispersing outward lest Asgard fall from the sky. At the base of the collumn of steam lies the dragon Nidhugger who sucks in the steam constantly, keeping the Norns at work. In Muspelheim below the many volcanos lies the hall of Hel, which is named after him. This is the hall where the dead without honour or those who died of disease and old age go to, to live forever in shame. While in Asgard is the Hall named Valhalla, where those whom have fought bravely and with honour and died in battle stay. So that they may fight and practice untill Ragnarok (The time of Chaos) comes, when they will fight alongside the Gods against the giants and Loki's offspring. And these are what I figure are the morals and ideals of the Brutor from reading prime fiction and looking at the religion I'm shaping. Please note that these are the ideals, not everyone is perfect. The ideal of the Brutor both men and women is to be strong of body and will. So that they may fight and conquer all challenges that life throws at them. Brutor hold honour and bravery in great regard. These morals and ideals were greatly upheld in their beliefs, for those who were brave and died with honour would go to Valhalla. While cowards, cheats and others would go to Hel and face torment for all eternity. As for the different marks well there's a few in the prime fiction, but I figure that the good people at CCP want us to make up our own. Wren also asked me to explain why blindness was considered a sign of wisdom by the Brutor. I'd say this would be because they don't belief a blind man is wholly blind, he is just blind to this world filled with deceptions and illusions (placed there by Loki?) and is thusly unefected by them. He also looks in on himself and others and untaps a great wisdom as a result. Finally some of you may be worried that making a 'religion' will take away from shamans and tribal beliefs. But even the Norse had shamans and lived in clans and formed tribes. The position of a shaman is to cure ailments and most importantly, foretell the future, as well as give thanks to the Gods. Well that's all I've got for today. Do please tell me your thoughts and ideas. |
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in |
Posted - 2007.03.28 23:51:00 -
[180] Perhaps my character should consider undergoing the Voluval ritual. That would be an interesting short story - a non-Minmatar, already an adult, undergoes the Voluval. He doesn't have quite the same fear of recieving a bad mark - he can leave the Republic if that happens - but he knows little of the ritual. ___ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom of Freedom |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.03.29 14:28:00 -
[181] Even with this religion, it isn't a straight deity worship system. Praying wouldn't help much I don't think. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
 Bastion Modros Minmatar Digital Roar |
Posted - 2007.03.29 15:32:00 -
[182] Wow! This is truly an amazing thread. Keep up the good work all! I especially liked the elements idea, and your interpretations of the rituals/chemical use. |
Taurevanime |
Posted - 2007.03.29 18:37:00 -
[183] Oh not at all straight worship like going to church. There's not even special buildings of worship, areas of reverence yes. It's more that it's an explenation why things happen. Like thunder is the result of Thor smashing his hammer and stuff like that. Do only straight worship that is done would be sacrificing an animal to a certain diety before setting out on a journey on sea, lest their ship be wrecked and they all drown. |
 Mori Felding Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers |
Posted - 2007.03.30 11:43:00 -
[184] Edited by: Mori Felding on 30/03/2007 11:45:47 Edited by: Mori Felding on 30/03/2007 11:45:01 Edited by: Mori Felding on 30/03/2007 11:41:46
While this is an interesting idea, I think the answer might be much more down to earth. According the nordic tales, Odin the king of gods in valhalla, sacrificed one of his eyes to drink from the well of wisdom. Of course it could be interpretated onto Brutor philosophy differently, just giving some info on norse mythology that it seems based on. Wren, I'm presently dealing with a lot of these aspects at university, so if you want to have a chat about how things as culture, history, religious experience/mysticism are seen from some scientific lines of study, just poke me ingame or send an evemail. Else I can post a longer post at a later time (presently drunk ^^) ___ Memento Mori |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.03.30 12:05:00 -
[185] Alas, I can never turn down an offer of in game poking. Expect a convo/mail soon. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.03.30 17:34:00 -
[186] How would everyone feel if I sketched up a few marks? ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Taurevanime |
Posted - 2007.03.30 23:09:00 -
[187] Go ahead with it I'd say. |
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in |
Posted - 2007.03.31 19:27:00 -
[188] I'd like to see that. I also had an idea for a mark, which I wrote into a first draft story about my character undergoing the Voluval. The mark is normally displayed on the hand, and takes the form of a crooked line starting at the wrist, ultimately branchng into five lines that reach the fingers. It is called the Mark of Lightning, since it resembles a lightning bolt. It signifies that the wearer is to participate in forming a storm of some kind. ___ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom of Freedom |
Arnulf Ogunkoya Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari |
Posted - 2007.04.02 00:01:00 -
[189]
You might want to convo or eve-mail Meklon about this as he has already played through undergoing the ritual. Regards, State of the Art Bang-Bang. |
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in |
Posted - 2007.04.02 06:02:00 -
[190] I will probably talk to him IC, especially since my corp is likely to join EM in the near future. ___ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom of Freedom |
Taurevanime |
Posted - 2007.04.04 01:42:00 -
[191] Okay I had a crazy idea going for the strong affinity the Minmatar seem to have with sails and I figured that there were no strong beasts of burden like horses or oxen on the Matari homeworld, apart from maybe the Brutor but I'll get to that later. So lets take the Sebiestor as an example they live on vast open steppes and of course they can walk across it, but with the invention of the wheel they have carts. But nobody wants to pull a heavy cart all day so they started putting sails on them to at least reduce the workload a little when they could. And in the artic lands they simply fitted skis to them. Now the Verhioker took it a step beyond being the nomadic people that they are. They created large land sailing ships to traverse the dangerous deserts where they lived, transporting themselves and all their belongings at once from oasis to oasis. The Brutor living on small tropical islands used sailing ships of course to move about. I did some thinking and well cities and villages couldn't really be developed to larger levels because of the lack of beasts of burden. So the Sebiestor started building their towns on hillslopes and creating two markets as it were on them. On the crest was the market were goods would be bought and on the bottom the market where they'd be sold. This made ease of transporting goods throughout the cities easier at least. it also resulted in the first planned cities on Minmatar. Because of their city planning and overall cunning the Sebiestor tribe grew larger and larger untill it eventually got in contact with the sea. After a course of decades maybe centuries a Sebiestor or Brutor ship got in contact with each other and after some initial misunderstanding (The sebiestor thinking the Brutor to be giants) the Brutor traded their oxen to the Sebiestor for other valluables of a kind, marking the start of true progress on the Matari mainland now that they would no longer be constraint by where their sailing carts could go, nor did they have to found cities on hills anymore. However the oxen were strong and made the smaller land sailing vessels obsolete, the larger ones were still able to transport more goods quicker over larger distances. And so the sail holds a special place in all Matari hearts and traditions? |
Arnulf Ogunkoya Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari |
Posted - 2007.04.04 10:48:00 -
[192]
Nice idea. A decent bit of colour for the background. |
Wren Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.04.06 19:30:00 -
[193]
Brilliant. Also, remember that Minmatar "displayed a level of mechanical technology that has never been seen before or after the enslavement" I always pictured them as having all sorts of wind, water, beast or other sources of energy that protected the environment (but after the occupation that love for 'green' energy was destroyed and now the planet is slowly being polluted). The mountain tribes (Vhrekor) might have built massive windmills that powered elevators and maybe even huge underground hydroponic farms (with shafts to let in light and mirros to diffuse this light and the power from the windmills kept water pumped into these areas). I have a feeling that the potential for neat stuff is limitless here. As far as my sketches of marks, I haven't had much progress, I can't actually draw well. I'll keep at it however and try to at least make a few. ----------------------------------- Wren says: "Chirpy Chirp Chirp.... DAMNIT!" |
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Electus Matari |
Posted - 2007.04.18 07:01:00 -
[194] OK, Voluval update. My character is soon to be adopted by a family (NPCs). He is taking the place of his fallen weapons tech in the family, and he will undergo the Voluval. Story will come after the Voluval takes place. ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom |
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