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Kingsman Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:24:00 - [271] My first post on this subject was in private on the KOS boards. My only response was I was banned from those forums. We, The Flying Tigers have been part of KOS for some time now and proud to be as well. We fought long and hard in N7, and were some of the last to pull out. We have kept two Large Pos up and fueled in WC since we were redeployed, to aid in holding WC, and assumed others were as well. At last weekends senate meeting we were presented with several options and told we could choose. One of those options included NAPing RAGOON to allow for the withdrawal of forces. We publicly declared this a bad idea. Voted against it. We told any one that would listen, inside the alliance, this was not going to sit well with our current allies. Once the vote was cast we posted on the forums we would not be leaving WC but would find some way to stay, most likely in curse, and continue the fight. We wished, and still do wish, safe flying to the many honorable pilots we have flown with over the previous months. But then something odd happened. WeÆve seen in this thread that it was KOS leadership plan to immediately inform the coalition of what was going to take place. That is what we were told also. We started making plans for a guerilla war. After all we had brought up ships, mods, ammo, towers etc for the defense of KOS. We might as well go out in a blaze of glory. Our private forums are filled with posts rallying the troops to defend F-E. We were going to fight to the last pod. Then all of sudden weÆre not KOS anymore. We are being called traitors, and told that all KOS will kill us. We canÆt dock at the stations we fought to defend to get the ships we brought to defend them with. But I look in my transaction history now and I see RAGOON members buying the ammo and mods I had built and put on the market at a loss for Alliance members to fight RAGOON with. Apparently our treachery is that we would not change sides in the middle of the battle and we believed the KOS leadership when they told us they were going to keep the coalition informed. I laugh at some of these posts. ItÆs LVs fault that we did not fuel our towers. We had to NAP RA to withdraw from the field. We donÆt know why they got mad at us for changing sides. Anyone with a clue knew that an LV war dec was going to follow a KOS nap like day follows night. When the sun came up this morning I wasnÆt surprised, and I didnÆt blame the moon for telling it was day time. Yet KOS blames us, the Tigers for LV being offended at them changing sides then trying to hide it to that last minute. Let me make our actions as a corp perfectly clear. 1.We will never change sides during battle know matter the cost. 2.We looked for a way to continue the fight and that included trying to arrange docking rights at certain coalition stations 3.We assumed the KOS leadership was telling the truth, (and the chat logs are in this thread) when they said the coalition was to be informed of the NAP immediately and even then it was only mentioned to certain high level individuals as the reason for our need for corp standings not in a look at what KOS is doing fashion 4.We vowed to defend KOS during their withdrawal and leave our POSs up as long as possible 5.We never told anyone that KOS was going to set any member of the coalition to neg standing and we honestly hoped that would not happen, (but honestly who was surprised by Chows post once you knew what happened?) When the sun came up this morning I wasnÆt surprised, and I didnÆt blame the moon for telling the sun it was morning. Yet KOS blames us, the Tigers for LV being offended at them changing sides then trying to hide it to that last minute. KOS leadership continues to cry foul and treachery, they should know. After what they did to us, they obviously understand what it means to stab some one in the back. "Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:27:00 - [272] [PJI] had a lot of fun flying with KOS, but as soon as this was suggested we decided it was time for us to leave. Honour is something we value above all else, and we just couldn't agree to take part in this. Was fun fighting RA and co, but i guess its back to piracy for us at least for now....
Stormhold FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:30:00 - [273] It's a completely normal "teh coalition" thread in EVE-o. Random smack from every corner of EVE spiced by RA propaganda. Without the spice it'd be a normal thread tho :/
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:40:00 - [274] Originally by: Kingsman ...... Then all of sudden weÆre not KOS anymore. We are being called traitors, and told that all KOS will kill us. We canÆt dock at the stations we fought to defend to get the ships we brought to defend them with. But I look in my transaction history now and I see RAGOON members buying the ammo and mods I had built and put on the market at a loss for Alliance members to fight RAGOON with. Apparently our treachery is that we would not change sides in the middle of the battle and we believed the KOS leadership when they told us they were going to keep the coalition informed. I laugh at some of these posts. ItÆs LVs fault that we did not fuel our towers. We had to NAP RA to withdraw from the field. We donÆt know why they got mad at us for changing sides. Anyone with a clue knew that an LV war dec was going to follow a KOS nap like day follows night. When the sun came up this morning I wasnÆt surprised, and I didnÆt blame the moon for telling it was day time. Yet KOS blames us, the Tigers for LV being offended at them changing sides then trying to hide it to that last minute. Let me make our actions as a corp perfectly clear. 1.We will never change sides during battle know matter the cost. 2.We looked for a way to continue the fight and that included trying to arrange docking rights at certain coalition stations 3.We assumed the KOS leadership was telling the truth, (and the chat logs are in this thread) when they said the coalition was to be informed of the NAP immediately and even then it was only mentioned to certain high level individuals as the reason for our need for corp standings not in a look at what KOS is doing fashion 4.We vowed to defend KOS during their withdrawal and leave our POSs up as long as possible 5.We never told anyone that KOS was going to set any member of the coalition to neg standing and we honestly hoped that would not happen, (but honestly who was surprised by Chows post once you knew what happened?)..... So Does this mean Demogod and Co think that the Intel to LV came from the Tigers? Well TBH I think that Demogod should look closer to his own Corp for leaky intel. I actually heard this was going to happen before the 'Senate/CEO' meeting happened. Demogods true motivation and true colours are beginning to show. I do feel for the KOS pilots caught up by bad leadership decisions as well as the Fleet Commanders that have tried to keep KOS on together. I feel you have all been let down by the actions of people above you. KOS fought well in N7- and in other area Operations against RAGOONS. I feel for you guys in the Alliance that have suddenly been sold out by the very people you put in place and trusted to lead you. For the Commanders as well who were stiffled and held back by those in positions above you. Especially Rhang and Shadoo who gave it their all to only be held back by certain leaders not willing to trust them in certain Chat channels. Best of Luck KOS pilots with leadership as it is you will need all you can get. See you on the Battlefield. KD has T H E K E Y! MT My comments are purely in character and should not be considered a personal attack especially if taken out of context. - awaiting mods reply via email.
Robet Katrix Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:45:00 - [275] Originally by: Guderian Once a great alliance leader said "there is always deniability". I guess that goes for KOS and the trick they tried to pull. Go join SMASH in Germinate, rebuild and come back and kill -V- and LV as you had planned before any of this happened. And RA, nice pull on the devide and conquer trick. Sadly you chose the weakest link. isn't that the whole point of divide and conquer? you remove the small and weaker links one by one? until all that remains is LV surrounded by Racoons on all sides with all their allies in empire or fighting other enemies?
EvilNate Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:46:00 - [276] I'd like to ask a couple questions if I may? 1.) Whats happening to the regoin KOS controlled, is it being handed over to RaGoons or are the Coalition Claiming it. 2.) If RaGoons claim, what are the chances of The Coalition recovering from this? The way it seems to me, if RaGoons keep up the charge, LV will be boxed in and RA could effectively bleed them to death. 3.) If the Coalition take controll of the regoin, will they have the man power to controll it? 4.) Would the coalition look at handing it over to another alliance if they do take the regoin? Thanks Nate.
LadyScarlet Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:46:00 - [277] Originally by: Guderian Edited by: Guderian on 24/10/2006 10:20:11 Originally by: Daroh Shinra +1 backstab (5 total: CA, -5-, RA, UCC, KOS) who will be next? Probably -V-... ) CA: We left and moved to another part of the EVE cluster. Hardly a backstab. -5-: We left on argueable terms, but never made them enemies. RA: I thought ATUK did the backstabbing there KOS: We didn't NAP RA/GOON to get out of the heat, KOS did. Where was the backstabbing again? If you rememeber all the forum drama From when snra left the five you will remember a certain log from chowdown approching RA for a nap when they planned on leaving us im sure those logs could eaisly resurface again so lets not get into the whole atuk backstab people bit, its so easy to forget the past and try to drag others names into a new war but you might want to stick to the curent topic and not relive all that again might make for soem good reading in this post
Plazmalord Soban Amarr Hounds Of War Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:56:00 - [278] sakana youll be missed, as far as flying tygers go... Your CEO 15 min after our meeting in the senate to discuss our options and decide our future... which im am QUITE CERTAIN had nuthing to do with becoming "Allies" with RED alliance. It was a tactical decision to get our valuables out of the firing line. Your CEO and whoever your senator is misunderstodd this and then in turn went to LV and V and started running his mouth about something he aparently wasnt paying attention to in the senate meeting in the first place. We asked of all the corps leaders to keep this qiet until Demogod was able to explain fully was was taking place. Ive seen alot of mud tossing here... KOS didnt have any other options... Look at how LV states several times " oh yet again we had to come and save KOS" Exscuse us but it was you (LV)who forced us to leave Omist and put us in W.C. and we stayed and fought and defended it every night from raids with Snigg to Raids from Dusk til dawn and RA and IMP. You guys sit back and whine that u gotta help us out Excuse us for being the #1 target's 100% of the time. You formed this coalition and turned your back on us several times when we came to you for support. giving us nuthing but lame excuses as to why they cant mobilize their dreads. KOS gave their support to this Coalition til the very last. We had no intentions on bailing out of it we were "REGROUPING" I can remember being promised by LV after we took a large hit to our fleet that if we helped them in an op to take down some RA pos to wipe out some dreads they would replace our ships if lost. After the battle.... NOT ONE ship was ever replaced. the months following our leadership sent us into the meatgrinder for your cause to defend EGGS to hold off enemy incursions everything u can think of... the arrogance that LV handed us WC without KOS's help in securing it or the efforts of our pvp pilots is quite hilarious. drop the leetest attitudes. I admit with the way things have been running lately in KOS have lead to the downfall of kos but DEMO in fact ordered q-gq 6 weeks ago to POS up all of the station systems. the corporations in KOS were the ones who failed to get those towers up. They knew full well what was coming we told them. they didnt take down their pos's in non station systems due to GREED. Demo sat back and let em burn because the senate wanted demo to stand down as leader and allow the senate to control things. Our cabinet was disbanded and all of a sudden nuthing is getting done anymore. the Senate chopped off the head of Animal that is KOS. We decided in the senate meeting to Fall back and regroup and why on earth would we want to regroup in LV space that is about to get pounded even further by RED's Coalition. We took the NAP to remove our valuables and re-establish order within KOS regroup and if relations were smoothed over with LV and V about the lack of fleet support we were gonna come back and be refreshed and strong again and help with the war. As for not telling your alliance's V and LV we in the senate meeting were under the impression demo was in talks with you about it and we were assured you were informed about it and would be again after the meeting. Thus why we chose that path. Not once despite some growing utterances and feelings of being abandoned by our big brothers did we ever say we were goin to put LV to negative 10. as far as i remember and being the one who hosted that meeting it was said that there was a possibility that Chimp and KOS were to merge. As far as helping Smash.... its been known Smash is an ally to KOS we let u know that before we got in this with you. Unlike LV Smash has fielded Dreads to help KOS when we were younger in Omist they didnt come down and say hey we will help you remove SE but we will take control of your stations. Its always been LV's way or the highway. well the highway we ran into wasnt paved any longer.
Valkazm Amarr Cursed Spawn	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:59:00 - [279] Thats the thanks KOS gets for being the shield how about LV fight there own battles and go and kill RA no lets kick on KOS while there down Cursed Spawn recruitment
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:00:00 - [280] Originally by: LadyScarlet Originally by: Guderian Edited by: Guderian on 24/10/2006 10:20:11 Originally by: Daroh Shinra +1 backstab (5 total: CA, -5-, RA, UCC, KOS) who will be next? Probably -V-... ) CA: We left and moved to another part of the EVE cluster. Hardly a backstab. -5-: We left on argueable terms, but never made them enemies. RA: I thought ATUK did the backstabbing there KOS: We didn't NAP RA/GOON to get out of the heat, KOS did. Where was the backstabbing again? If you rememeber all the forum drama From when snra left the five you will remember a certain log from chowdown approching RA for a nap when they planned on leaving us im sure those logs could eaisly resurface again so lets not get into the whole atuk backstab people bit, its so easy to forget the past and try to drag others names into a new war but you might want to stick to the curent topic and not relive all that again might make for soem good reading in this post signed. i got them in my pocket. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...

Shadoo The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:01:00 - [281] Originally by: Major Tarsis I actually heard this was going to happen before the 'Senate/CEO' meeting happened. MJ my friend, the only thing I scratch my head for still is -- if you obviously knew what the plan was -- you surely knew that the plan didn not involve to regroup in empire and come fight -V- and LV nor to set them negative. Ah well, part of the mystery of 0.0 alliance politics I presume... It is fascinating to watch and observe.
Krongo FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:09:00 - [282] I'm sorry that this had to happen, i liked KOS and always have been u ugys have alot of nice pilots. All i can say is god luck in the future and i hope i se u all again preferably on my side. Krongo
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:15:00 - [283] Originally by: Shadoo Originally by: Major Tarsis I actually heard this was going to happen before the 'Senate/CEO' meeting happened. MJ my friend, the only thing I scratch my head for still is -- if you obviously knew what the plan was -- you surely knew that the plan didn not involve to regroup in empire and come fight -V- and LV nor to set them negative. Ah well, part of the mystery of 0.0 alliance politics I presume... It is fascinating to watch and observe. Sorry I have re-read my posts and they are not fully clear. The intel I heard was KOS were planning on moving out of 'The Creek' and back to Empire to assist SMASH, this is being done by forming an Alliance or NAP with RA and this had already been setup to happen after the meeting (This was just before the Senate meeting so I presumed this was the only meeting of significance to be held). This information was passed to me 45 minutes before the meeting had started. If you want anymore infomation Evemail me in game as the above is public information now. But I will not go into anything else on these public boards. I did not approach any of LV with this info at this time as I had yet to confirm it (I hear alot of rumours many turn out to be complete makebelief). However this was confirmed after the meeting but by that time I was just confirming intel LV had already got from our enemies. MT My comments are purely in character and should not be considered a personal attack especially if taken out of context. - awaiting mods reply via email.
Plazmalord Soban Amarr Hounds Of War Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:31:00 - [284] So its true u were informed before the meeting like demo said.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:32:00 - [285] Originally by: Plazmalord Soban So its true u were informed before the meeting like demo said. So its true it was decided before the meeting like we said? It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:35:00 - [286] Originally by: Plazmalord Soban So its true u were informed before the meeting like demo said. This was in no way an official informing and was definately not done with Demogods approval. Therefore this can in no way be considered as informing us. If he had done then why did he outright lie about it later to LD? MT My comments are purely in character and should not be considered a personal attack especially if taken out of context. - awaiting mods reply via email.
Mallick Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:42:00 - [287] Admiral IceBlock says, Welcome. ;)
Murph Dog The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:44:00 - [288] Edited by: Murph Dog on 24/10/2006 14:48:20 Personally I can assure you that we [FT.C] are not to blame for your fall <KOS> . Poor planning, and inconsistent leadership were your biggest threats. FT.C didn't "Cry to LV" as you seem to think, but if you want a scapegoat then sure we make a great one, the only corp to vote against napping RA, who wanted to fight to the last system and last ship. Really though whats a council vote in a dictatorship mean anyway? I've still got hundreds of millions in ships locked in F-E because you didnt want to fight and decided to lay blame on a corp that dared to speak out against you. Those were ships to fight for Wicked Creek as I fought for and Lost Insmother due to the exact same POS strategy "let them have the moons we'll keep soverinity on hopes and dreams alone!!!" You decided these things behind your members backs while telling them the opposite until the eleventh hour, What did you think <LV> & <-V-> would do once they found out you were handing the region over to RA without a fight? Really guys, i bet they wouldn't send cake... Respect to those in <KOS> who tried so hard to hold N7- & QGQ, and to those who stood side by side in our gangs. Let it be a lesson, small towers and empty wallets do not hold soverinity... <KOS> is full of spies and agents, i'm positive you can look a little harder for your informant. Respect & Luck to those corps who've gone their ways, Best of luck to those who've stayed, you have a lot of good people. I will not, however stand idly by and watch you slander my corp and my honor with false accusations fabricated to shift focus from the real problem. An alliance run by egos will not last forever. I'd love to know what became of the billions of fees and costs but like the rest of what goes on in KOS Command, no one will ever know. And to remove any confusion, I was informed I am Kill on sight to KOS... so welcome to my crosshairs. -Murph Everyone's Favorite Canadian I apologize in advance if my comments bother you... you see the problem is... I don't give a damn.
Tuonela Rautamieli FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:00:00 - [289] Edited by: Tuonela Rautamieli on 24/10/2006 15:01:57 T H E G A Y Originally by: Ediz Daxx Mommie. Yes i am here.
Shyalud Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:03:00 - [290] Any of you that think alliance politics is as cut and dry as many of you think are fooling yourselves. Things move fast in eve, and if you slack you miss the boat. Leaders have to make decisions based on the best possible information. Sometimes lack of information from a key party is something to be considered as well. Alliances are tricky enough to run "fairly" Try compounding that with a coalition and the burden of leadership becomes intense. The first responsibility of a leader is to be true to his own. An alliance leader has to be true to their alliance, while a corp leader has to be true to their corp. Quite simply, I'd rather be known as the type that looks after her own, and puts her real friends and corpmates in front of her "associates". One of the biggest things that kills a corp is when it's leadership is more concerned with the welfare of their alliance mates over their own corp members and the same goes for alliance leaders. Look after your own first then your associates. If you can look after everyone at the same time, then great. If not you have to prioritize. If a member of a coalition or alliance fails to live up to their "end of the deal" then decisions need to be made to rectify the situation. This whole LV and -V- vs. KOS is just anpther example of how things move fast in eve. There needs not be such emotion involved. LV and -V- are what remains of the coalition and we have to look after our own interests. KOS made their decisions and now we make ours. And just to head off the flames (yeah right), along with negotiating our way out of Tribute when D2 wtfpwned us, we also managed to get a ceasefire for a few other corps. Namely corps that D2 (the agressor and victor)recognized as deserving of a ceasfire. Such as Wigns of Turul (The Huns) who lost more then ANYONE in the conflict , Ragex and a few others. CHSN High Council Chosen Path Recruitment

Ace Frehley Minmatar The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:05:00 - [291] Peepz outside LV -V- and the "old" Chimps can just put their stupid speculations and ideas how LV and -V- is usin alliances as meatshield. You dont know what some us did to "install" KOS in WC and all the curses some did on ts alliance chat about some of KOS incompetence. Their were a few KOS you can trust and it is sad those get dragged in to this. And as an old member I waasent supprised about this, and RA please stop with your worthless propaganda cuz even if I not in this conflict i seem to know more then your useless spies. Plus what happend to your all meatshield alliances when we first came?? Don¦t wanna drag up what happend to them etc etc, so with your screaming about chow is a yadda yadda, you as much yadda yadda. But i still hope i get some vodka when i get to Russia next time. Becauze I a very bad person with ladies I skip that part with ladies and take a dual ransom of vodka Girljerms is more lethal then a fleet of 1000 Tempests Yeah I¦m nude, I¦m a swede and I¦m armed with bad jokes
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:05:00 - [292] Plazma, you acuse my CEO and my Senator (who is/was me btw, but another director was standing in that on sunday as I had no mic) of running off and telling LV/-V-. however i would like to see your evidence for this. [PJI] is a corp who make their decisions AS A CORP, so while the senate meeting was going on, we were discussing what you were discussing. Just the day before we had decided to fight til the bitter end, we put a weeks worth of fuel in our Q-GQ deathstar and moved all our ships/mods there to make our last stand for the alliance we had so much fun flying with. But as the news of the proposed NAP with RAGOON came in we began to lose faith. Our Ceo and Senator asked what me and the other directors thought, we asked what the other members though, and everyone came to the same conclusion. We would leave KOS asap and have nothing to do with the new plans. It was a decision many of us made with sorrow, our CEO especially, and to have you acuse him of leaking anything is shameful. TBH if i was RAGOON i would have used one of my many alts i KOS to leak it to LV... sak
Plazmalord Soban Amarr Hounds Of War Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:06:00 - [293] sakana i never accused you of this. I was told and still believe that it was Zilla of Flying tygers. I never accused u ... i just said i would miss you as you were a great gamer in kos and u had my respect.
Jim Linger	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:08:00 - [294] was it so bad you had to hit the self destruct button? Meh, more targets for me _____________________________________________
k1Lz Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:09:00 - [295] Good luck KOS and remember is nothing personal. PS: " T H E K E Y "
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:12:00 - [296] Originally by: Plazmalord Soban sakana i never accused you of this. I was told and still believe that it was Zilla of Flying tygers. I never accused u ... i just said i would miss you as you were a great gamer in kos and u had my respect. in that case, i apologise and remove my post. and as i said on our own boards, GL in the future.
Plazmalord Soban Amarr Hounds Of War Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:20:00 - [297] Peace
Shadoo The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:22:00 - [298] Originally by: LV RANK AND FILE " T H E K E Y " No matter how many times you say it, it will not unlock my Chastity Belt. Only Nebba has the R E A L K E Y.
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:23:00 - [299] Originally by: Shadoo Originally by: LV RANK AND FILE " T H E K E Y " No matter how many times you say it, it will not unlock my Chastity Belt. Only Nebba has the R E A L K E Y.
Robet Katrix Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:24:00 - [300] Originally by: k1Lz Good luck KOS and remember is nothing personal. PS: " T H E K E Y " is the whole point of the war dec that IT IS personal?



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