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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
784
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Posted - 2015.04.09 06:11:27 -
[211] - Quote
115,481 total Svipul kills 10,975total Svipul loses since release (mid-Feb) 20.2k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY HALF-MONTH
120,007 total Confessor kills 10,842 total Confessor losses Since release (December) 9.5k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY FULL MONTH
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Nagarythe Tinurandir
House of Freedom The Pursuit of Happiness
195
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Posted - 2015.04.09 06:39:46 -
[212] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:115,481 total Svipul kills 10,975total Svipul loses since release (mid-Feb) 20.2k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY HALF-MONTH
120,007 total Confessor kills 10,842 total Confessor losses Since release (December) 9.5k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY FULL MONTH
is it possible to split the Svipul kills between Arti- and Autocannon fits? because I have the feeling, that the low PG requirements of Autos is making the Svipul PG so powerful. wouldn't be the first time that a PG big enough to make Arties viable makes the ship being a too good of an Autocannon platform. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1050
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 09:06:34 -
[213] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:115,481 total Svipul kills 10,975total Svipul loses since release (mid-Feb) 20.2k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY HALF-MONTH
120,007 total Confessor kills 10,842 total Confessor losses Since release (December) 9.5k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY FULL MONTH
is it possible to split the Svipul kills between Arti- and Autocannon fits? because I have the feeling, that the low PG requirements of Autos is making the Svipul PG so powerful. wouldn't be the first time that a PG big enough to make Arties viable makes the ship being a too good of an Autocannon platform.
it would be if killmails weren't broken almost all the time, and if any of the killboards were any good |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2047
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 10:08:41 -
[214] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:115,481 total Svipul kills 10,975total Svipul loses since release (mid-Feb) 20.2k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY HALF-MONTH
120,007 total Confessor kills 10,842 total Confessor losses Since release (December) 9.5k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY FULL MONTH
That result is a bit skewed because of the min maxing behavior of players. If the svipul is 5% better than the confessor, that is enough for 90% of the high skilled and brain capable players to change to the svipul. That increases drastically its results. Because its win ratio is 2 times higher, does not mean it is MASSIVELY better than the confessor.
Also how many of those kills were frigates .. how many were battleships, hacs.. etc? I Would prefer a LOT a confessor to a svipul to fight against a vigilant for example. Raw numbers have useful info, but you need to analyse the effect on the player behavior to get a reasonable conclusion about them.
At end, the Arties needing TOO MUCH PG causes an issue where it is too easy to push a specific minmatar ship made to use arties into weird fittings.
The real problem is in the arties. They could all lose some 15% fittings and SOME of the ships then could lose a tad of PG (the ones that were clearly built to use arties and that are abused with AC (trashers and svipul basically) , others are already in hard place when using AC and there is no need to toucht heir PG (like tempest, munin)
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Chrisfighter
Gladdebacher's
0
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Posted - 2015.04.09 12:55:25 -
[215] - Quote
The -9 PG cut on the confessor is a little to much. A change in -8 or -7 pg would be ok, just my two cents :)
Nur die harten kommen innen Garten, eh .... Eve xD
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
194
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Posted - 2015.04.09 19:21:14 -
[216] - Quote
Chrisfighter wrote:The -9 PG cut on the confessor is a little to much. A change in -8 or -7 pg would be ok, just my two cents :)
[citation needed]
Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept //
Make BS & BC Worth the Warp!
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Nightfox BloodRaven
State Protectorate Caldari State
36
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Posted - 2015.04.09 19:32:42 -
[217] - Quote
-9 powergrig is too much. Confessor is not as op as ppl think cap is tight.
but hey to all folks here..
CCP has made decision.. the rest is semantics. They dont care what we think. |
Fird
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
5
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Posted - 2015.04.09 21:36:11 -
[218] - Quote
Don't poop on the Svipul. |
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc. Lasers Are Magic
22
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Posted - 2015.04.09 21:42:33 -
[219] - Quote
Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:
CCP has made decision.. the rest is semantics.
This does seem to be the trend with these balancing threads. They are more early warning threads than actual feedback threads. |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
785
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Posted - 2015.04.10 00:04:08 -
[220] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:115,481 total Svipul kills 10,975total Svipul loses since release (mid-Feb) 20.2k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY HALF-MONTH
120,007 total Confessor kills 10,842 total Confessor losses Since release (December) 9.5k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY FULL MONTH
That result is a bit skewed because of the min maxing behavior of players. If the svipul is 5% better than the confessor, that is enough for 90% of the high skilled and brain capable players to change to the svipul. That increases drastically its results. Because its win ratio is 2 times higher, does not mean it is MASSIVELY better than the confessor. Also how many of those kills were frigates .. how many were battleships, hacs.. etc? I Would prefer a LOT a confessor to a svipul to fight against a vigilant for example. Raw numbers have useful info, but you need to analyse the effect on the player behavior to get a reasonable conclusion about them.
It doesn't take a genius to see that the Svipul is head and shoulders above the Confessor. If you want to break it down by ship type or weapon usage month by month help yourself
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
625
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Posted - 2015.04.10 05:38:59 -
[221] - Quote
I call the agility and capacitor gimp an overnerf. Yeah, we know CCP doesn't like Caldari or Amarr very much so they listen to outcries from folks that have no business calling themselves educated.
Dail those overnerfs back, the Confessor doesn't need them. The whine-matar need a tad more nerfs.
signature
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Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
162
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Posted - 2015.04.10 05:45:49 -
[222] - Quote
Torei Dutalis wrote:Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:
CCP has made decision.. the rest is semantics.
This does seem to be the trend with these balancing threads. They are more early warning threads than actual feedback threads.
Not really true in the very recent past. iHubs and the Entosis Module had changes or things implemented based on player feedback in forum threads. We haven't seen an example in rebalancing yet though. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
353
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 06:22:28 -
[223] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Torei Dutalis wrote:Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:
CCP has made decision.. the rest is semantics.
This does seem to be the trend with these balancing threads. They are more early warning threads than actual feedback threads. Not really true in the very recent past. iHubs and the Entosis Module had changes or things implemented based on player feedback in forum threads. We haven't seen an example in rebalancing yet though.
This actually goes back a lot further than that, but you need to bring up a glaring issue with something they're trying to fix, and proof to back it up, or make a very well supported argument with numbers and examples if you want to massively change what CCP is doing. Either that or pretty much everyone needs to be saying the same thing, if they're getting a mix of "too much" and "not enough" then they're going to figure this is a decent pass. |
Idame Isqua
Vipres' Templis CALSF
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 08:30:58 -
[224] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Nice changes.
Now if you would just block them from small plexes :)
That will happen with the Caldari release |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2050
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 10:11:18 -
[225] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:115,481 total Svipul kills 10,975total Svipul loses since release (mid-Feb) 20.2k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY HALF-MONTH
120,007 total Confessor kills 10,842 total Confessor losses Since release (December) 9.5k KILLS IN INTRODUCTORY FULL MONTH
That result is a bit skewed because of the min maxing behavior of players. If the svipul is 5% better than the confessor, that is enough for 90% of the high skilled and brain capable players to change to the svipul. That increases drastically its results. Because its win ratio is 2 times higher, does not mean it is MASSIVELY better than the confessor. Also how many of those kills were frigates .. how many were battleships, hacs.. etc? I Would prefer a LOT a confessor to a svipul to fight against a vigilant for example. Raw numbers have useful info, but you need to analyse the effect on the player behavior to get a reasonable conclusion about them. It doesn't take a genius to see that the Svipul is head and shoulders above the Confessor. If you want to break it down by ship type or weapon usage month by month help yourselfThe Confessor doesn't need help, and after the change it will be totally fine. The Svipul is what needs a nerf. If you want to keep its artillery ability then either nuke the cpu, the speed, or nuke the PG and boost the optimal bonus.
does not take a genius to read my sentences and see the truth. Just take playing the game.
If a ships is 10% better than the other, on same role, that ship will be used by 99% of the good players. That result in a MASSIVE bloating of its killboards stats. Simple example? The tempest, is among the weakest battleships, it is barely used at all, but the peopel that use it, mostly know very well the scenarios that they are good at.. a few scenarios that they excel, the result is that is among the highest win rate for ANY battleships. That means the tempest is excelent? NO.. it is horrible because it can do only a tiny number of things, so much that no one uses it most of time? ooo does that mean it is 40 times worse than a dominix because of the total number of kills made with them? NO.. it means that the dominix is better, and being better is enough to make the ship flown 10-20 times MORE then the other, even if it were only 10% better.
We for example had EXACTLY the same kill rate with the confessor and the sivpul. The sivpul is better at the most common scenarios ? Yes... 2 times better? lol no at all. if you REMOVE the sivpul and leave the confessor as it is, the confessor kill rate will increase up to a point that is not MUCH smaller than what the sivpul has now.
CCP is wise to see that. The amount of nerfing on both and the way is not something I agree, but that when you touch the best ship you need to evaluate the most likely ship to replace its place in the food chain, that is the wisest thing you can do in game balance.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Syrias Bizniz
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
399
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Posted - 2015.04.10 14:41:48 -
[226] - Quote
Dear CCP Fozzie,
I don't understand these changes. And i am just talking about the Svipul for now, not even in contrast to the Confessor.
The Svipul has a hull bonus that grants it 10% Damage and 10% Range on small projectile weapons. These are the 2 stats that make any minmatar hull viable to actually fit arties and not be horribly bad.
Arties have a horrible tracking, so you'd optimally want to use them while kiting. This is, using a mwd, and stay away from anything that tries to scram you, so you can keep the transversal low and defecate your artillery shells on their pretty little faces.
However, with the upcoming -10 PG nerf to the Svipul, fitting anything that is 280mms is already horrible as fock and will **** your fittingspace. Fitting 250mm Arties *and* a tank is going to be hard as fock even with maxed out skills.
Meanwhile, fitting a 10mn Afterburner and some autocannons and a good tank is ... oh look at that, perfectly viable.
Here's 2 fits.
[Svipul, 10mn]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Gyrostabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S [Empty High slot] 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator II Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
DPS: 352 with RF PP Tank: Sweet Speed: Awesome What happens when you get scrammed: You're in autocannon range, perfect piloting! Fitting: Tight, but sufficient.
---
[Svipul, Svipul fit]
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Warp Disruptor II
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S [Empty High slot] 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S
Small Projectile Locus Coordinator II Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Ancillary Current Router I
Quake S x2000 Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S x2000 Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S x2000 Nanite Repair Paste x200 Navy Cap Booster 50 x270
DPS: 192 with RF Depleted Uranium (Cause if you use PP or EMP or Fusion, you have to stay within 10-15km to properly outdamage Depleted Uranium. But you don't want to be there.) Tank: Sweet Speed: Awesome What happens when you get scrammed: You're not tracking **** and get your poophole stuffed, horrible piloting! Fitting: Holy, like, what, Fozzie, please, where am i going to pull the lacking CPU from without making the fit expensive or dropping mobility or dps or range( which is dps, basically). I already fit 250mms, REWARD ME!
TL;DR:
Don't nerf the Svipul, nerf 10mn ABs! Upp 10mn PG - Requirements to 100! Increase Cruiser and Battlecruiser PG by 50ish to compensate!
Results: No more ~nosig~ 10mn Frigs or Dessies, slighlty more competiitive MWD cruisers and Battlecruisers, still the 100mn stuff on T3s. Cause that's another bullet, seriously. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
213
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Posted - 2015.04.10 15:08:55 -
[227] - Quote
People these days.
I agree, AC fits with Dual MASB and 10MN have to go.
Cut the powergrid some more, Rise.
Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept //
Make BS & BC Worth the Warp!
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
176
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Posted - 2015.04.10 16:36:56 -
[228] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Dear CCP Fozzie, I don't understand these changes. And i am just talking about the Svipul for now, not even in contrast to the Confessor. The Svipul has a hull bonus that grants it 10% Damage and 10% Range on small projectile weapons. These are the 2 stats that make any minmatar hull viable to actually fit arties and not be horribly bad. Arties have a horrible tracking, so you'd optimally want to use them while kiting. This is, using a mwd, and stay away from anything that tries to scram you, so you can keep the transversal low and defecate your artillery shells on their pretty little faces. However, with the upcoming -10 PG nerf to the Svipul, fitting anything that is 280mms is already horrible as fock and will **** your fittingspace. Fitting 250mm Arties *and* a tank is going to be hard as fock even with maxed out skills. Meanwhile, fitting a 10mn Afterburner and some autocannons and a good tank is ... oh look at that, perfectly viable. Here's 2 fits. [Svipul, 10mn] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Gyrostabilizer II Internal Force Field Array I Nanofiber Internal Structure II Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S [Empty High slot] 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S Small Projectile Collision Accelerator II Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I DPS: 352 with RF PP Tank: Sweet Speed: Awesome What happens when you get scrammed: You're in autocannon range, perfect piloting! Fitting: Tight, but sufficient. (THIS IS AFTER 10 PG NERF) --- [Svipul, Svipul fit] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Warp Disruptor II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S [Empty High slot] 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S Small Projectile Locus Coordinator II Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Small Ancillary Current Router I Quake S x2000 Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S x2000 Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium S x2000 Nanite Repair Paste x200 Navy Cap Booster 50 x270 DPS: 192 with RF Depleted Uranium (Cause if you use PP or EMP or Fusion, you have to stay within 10-15km to properly outdamage Depleted Uranium. But you don't want to be there.) Tank: Sweet Speed: Awesome What happens when you get scrammed: You're not tracking **** and get your poophole stuffed, horrible piloting! Fitting: Holy, like, what, Fozzie, please, where am i going to pull the lacking CPU from without making the fit expensive or dropping mobility or dps or range( which is dps, basically). I already fit 250mms, REWARD ME! TL;DR: Don't nerf the Svipul, nerf 10mn ABs! Upp 10mn PG - Requirements to 100! Increase Cruiser and Battlecruiser PG by 50ish to compensate! Results: No more ~nosig~ 10mn Frigs or Dessies, slighlty more competiitive MWD cruisers and Battlecruisers, still the 100mn stuff on T3s. Cause that's another bullet, seriously.
Dual MASB arty with x2 gyro? Lol. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
Arty boats are always skimpy on tank. Some worse than others (no tank arty wolf). They require SKILL, and speed as the primary way to survive. You cant have max tank, gank, speed and projection. That is the definition of overpowered.
Drop a MASB, replace with web. Drop a nano and add MAPC (navy one for max PG), that might free up enough grid for 280s to work. Try this:
x6 280s
fleeting web t2 point Limited 1mn mwd
Nano x2 tracking enhancer gyro
ACR polycarb burst aerator
That was my svipul fit before nerf. With sabot shot out to 40km, went 3400ish (cold, 5k hot) in prop mode and still had great tracking. Could easily kill garms/tackle. Did 190-290dps depending on ammo.
I might have to drop a poly or nano for another grid mod. Guess we will see.
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Syrias Bizniz
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
399
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Posted - 2015.04.10 18:39:44 -
[229] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote: stuff
The whole point was actually to show how ******* ******** the proposed changes are. ******* over arties while still maintaining 10mn dual asb fits (that are scram immune!) on an arty hull is kinda horrible design.
Fun fact, if you drop one of the Nanos, you're just BARELY faster than a 10mn Svipul. While having all the disadvantages: Lower DPS, Sigbloom, lower tracking, less range control.
Edit: The first step to change the svipul is to take away it's ability to 10mn it. And THEN you can start balancing it properly. |
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc. Lasers Are Magic
23
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Posted - 2015.04.10 20:44:30 -
[230] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Torei Dutalis wrote:Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:
CCP has made decision.. the rest is semantics.
This does seem to be the trend with these balancing threads. They are more early warning threads than actual feedback threads. Not really true in the very recent past. iHubs and the Entosis Module had changes or things implemented based on player feedback in forum threads. We haven't seen an example in rebalancing yet though.
Perhaps I should have said ship balancing threads. To be fair, in your example they were planning on iterating on the very loose sov presentation (which still may not be done) and they had how many hundred pages of tears about interceptors? And the t2 link still has a 250km range....what? I'd like to see responses to some of the actual, reasonable, number filled posts from people who actually fly in and against these ships. Those are the posts that seem to be ignored. There have been a lot of unnecessary nerfs to things like light missiles and tracking enhancers, or balancing passes on ships where they give a ship +3 CPU when it needs a completely different weapon bonus to not be overlapping with multiple other ships. Anyway, rant over. |
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Murkelost
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2015.04.11 09:31:33 -
[231] - Quote
Your powergrid decrease is to much.
Read: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=418061&find=unread |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
224
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Posted - 2015.04.11 11:01:13 -
[232] - Quote
No.
Fit more MAPCs.
Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept //
Make BS & BC Worth the Warp!
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1682
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Posted - 2015.04.11 18:35:37 -
[233] - Quote
Make arty not take over 3 time as much PWG per gun as autos and then re-babalce ships using these around. How can you hope to balance the tank/prop mod of a ship when one of the largest PWG requirement is 3 time as much as the other available option? |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
226
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Posted - 2015.04.11 19:46:57 -
[234] - Quote
With these changes, Arty fits are balanced PG-wise, it is the ACs that have disproportionately low PG requirements and need to be looked at.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Murkelost
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2015.04.11 19:51:21 -
[235] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Make arty not take over 3 time as much PWG per gun as autos and then re-babalce ships using these around. How can you hope to balance the tank/prop mod of a ship when one of the largest PWG requirement is 3 time as much as the other available option?
The PWR grid nerf is not gonna prevent people from fitting a 10mn AB from what I've learned (atleast what it seems like at this point). Basically this means that the nerf is for nothing PWR grid wise, which is why I think the only solution would be to limit propulsion mods size wise toward specific ship sizes... Just saying |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
227
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Posted - 2015.04.11 20:06:47 -
[236] - Quote
Murkelost wrote:Basically this means that the nerf is for nothing PWR grid wise, which is why I think the only solution would be to limit propulsion mods size wise toward specific ship sizes... Just saying
A rather drastic change because of one ship. One ship and its ACs to be exact.
AC PG needs to be looked at, nothing more.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Kaede Hita
K.H. Holding
1
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Posted - 2015.04.11 21:51:52 -
[237] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. As we mentioned on the o7 show today, we're making some balance changes to the Material Requirements: +1 to each of Electromechanical Interface Nexus, Fullerene Intercalated Sheets, Optimized Nano-engines, Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator, Self-Assembling Nanolattice, Warfare Computation Core
These changes are intentionally limited in scope as we want to take advantage of our rapid release cadence to make small changes and observe effects. We are very interested in hearing your feedback!
Pure speculation, but are you sure the prices are not going down just because more people are dwelling/looting in WH space ? I suppose T3 prices are not dropping as fast because people are used to pay top ISK for the hull. I am not a market specialist, I just want to make sure there is not barking at the wrong tree going on. Maybe someone well-versed in eve market could enlightened us please ?
One thing I find a bit annoying, when there is nerfing/balancing coming, I have to scroll down after the dev post to know specifically what kind of abuse is going with the ship. I would prefer straightforward reason on the opening post, so I can know what is going on and why. Some people are not that familiar with forums and/or latest patches might find some of the changes a bit cryptic. And it may increases troll detection as well.
10mn destroyers with good range and damage and tanking is a bad idea, I believe the change is needed. |
Murkelost
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
2
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Posted - 2015.04.12 08:10:57 -
[238] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Murkelost wrote:Basically this means that the nerf is for nothing PWR grid wise, which is why I think the only solution would be to limit propulsion mods size wise toward specific ship sizes... Just saying A rather drastic change because of one ship. One ship and its ACs to be exact. AC PG needs to be looked at, nothing more.
You are totally right on the fact that it is a drastic change, but if it's wrong to fit a 10MN AB to a t3 destroyer, why would it then still be possible to fit it to such a vessel, or any other small vessel for that matter. With this said it is just not only about one ship but all. propulsion size mods vs ship size. It just happened to be the awesomeness of a t3 destroyer that surfaced the very dilemma
This is only why I found it to be a better problemsolver to do this instead of nerfing ships in themselves. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
237
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Posted - 2015.04.12 09:32:04 -
[239] - Quote
It is more reasonable to drop base speed of the hulls, or even reduce bonuses given in (each) tacticool mode.
This game has history with oversized, extreme, often broken setups that work super good if only for a time, as the hull in question gets nerfbatted. I don't recall a change that put artificial restrictions just because of 1-2 boats.
In the nanu era stacking penalty was introduced, so battleships couldn't reach 5 km/speeds with inty acceleration. Likewise for damage mods - stacking penalty faded the 8 Heatsink Geddon.
Very early in the game, multiple prob mode and their simultaneous activation prompted a restriction of the number of active propulsion modules to 1. You can still fit AB + MWD
Yes, T3Ds with 10MNs are cancel.
Yes, there will be less of it.
Yes, there will be some drawbacks now to fitting one now.
Yes, it may require further review of the specific hulls in question.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
924
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Posted - 2015.04.13 03:32:06 -
[240] - Quote
Face it, whether it was Tengus with 100mn Afterburners or T3D's with 10mn Afterburners, they are both cancerous. Get rid of that fitting option, then balance the ships.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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