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[June] Module Teiracide - Afterburners & Microwarpdrives

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CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 24	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:18:18 - [91] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: For ABs, Gist ones are faster and require more cap. For mwds, gist ones though require less cap, are equally fast and have a bigger sigbloom. Is that intended or type? Because it doesn't make much sense that the coreli one is better suited for sigtanking compared to an angel mod. Hrm, good catch I think. Let me relook at this. Serenit Adoulin wrote: Gistum MWDs need more power to fit, more GJ for activation and are slower now compared to other one. Thats not really what I would consider fair. Slower? All modules of the same meta level should have the same speed bonus. Can you provide an example? Yuri Thorpe wrote: Can we expect to see officer MWDs being better than deadspace? As it stands now officer is just an expensive deadspace prop... The Officer modules receive a -10% CPU & Powergrid fitting requirements and a +10% overload speed bonus over the Deadspace mods. ArchAngael wrote: Love the 5/50/500 change. I'm less sold on the names. I would rather see more subtlety. Personally I would rather see a certain flavor tag, like cold-gas, mean something specific across all modules and use that to indicate its role. For example, players could learn that cold-gas on any module means less cap use and anytime you see it, you know it's the cap saver module. You could add something to the Show Info to explain it and serve as a reference if people forget, but it would become one more bit of knowledge that makes you a better Eve player. Thats what the Compact (Lower fitting requirements), Enduring (Lower capacitor usage) & Restrained (Lower drawbacks) parts of the name indicate. If you look at some of the other module groups we've Tiericided, you'll see its consistent. "Cold-Gas" is flavor only.

Bienator II madmen of the skies 3278	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:19:12 - [92] - Quote Gorski Car wrote: Nice to see that t2 mwds are actually faster now. But really do we need more speed creep in eve? it feels like ships are super fast right now and that creates some problems in my opinion. In a vacum they might be okish whats most important is what you guys are planning to do with links since they heavily affect this as well. For certain ships these changes might be terrifying though. Garmurs doing 10k m/s or stilettos burning 100km and tackeling you before you can lock them. i kinda want to see officer fit garmurs. because reasons. how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 190	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:21:23 - [93] - Quote Cold gas is fine, but remove the complicated Y-SR do dar crap
Ravcharas Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 400	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:21:25 - [94] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Q: Why have you changed the MWDs to 5/50/500MN? A: We want show there is a clear increase in power between Afterburners and Microwarpdrives. It also makes searching the market a little easier. I guess that depends on personal preference. I usually bring up the market window and enter 1mn, 10mn, or 100mn -- depending on if I'm fitting a frig, cruiser, or bs size hull, respectively. That's almost always quicker than browsing through the folder menu.
Renura Ostus Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:24:24 - [95] - Quote +1 for 5/50/500 mwd names. At least it now clearly understandable in talks is it '1mn svipul', '5mn svipul', '10mn svipul' and I don't have to carefully listen for 'ab'/'mwd' suffix. +1 for meta1 cleanup. As promised, all meta 1 gives the same main bonus - speed and different penalties, fitting, cap usage. And it's better then meta0 and worse then meta5. Thanks for that. Finally t2 mwd is worth to use on interceptor (but restrained variant have better sig/speed ratio. I wonder, how much will it cost) :) Now the last point - those vendor names. I assume that it's a part of our Lore and can't be removed, to not fall into kind of pure mathematical names without any soul. But there is also practical disadvantage - searching. If I want to quickly get "5MN [vendor] Restrained Microwarpdrive", I would like to have ability to enter just '5mn re' in search and get it without needing to remind all those vendor names. So kind of 'fuzzy string search' (like Ctrl-P in Sublime) in market and other places would be great to have with those new names.
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2068	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:24:37 - [96] - Quote Canenald wrote: Will t2 MWD finally be useful? well lets see: 5MN Microwarpdrive II [Meta Level 5; Powergrid 17; CPU 25; Activation 50; Cap Penalty -20 (-3); Signature Bonus 500%; Velocity Bonus 510 (+10)%; Overload Bonus 50%] yup thats an extra 5% now over all the other tech I metas... so yes tech II will actually be better. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 511	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:27:05 - [97] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Yuri Thorpe wrote: Can we expect to see officer MWDs being better than deadspace? As it stands now officer is just an expensive deadspace prop... The Officer modules receive [...] a +10% overload speed bonus over the Deadspace mods. Ohhh, you touche my tralala CCP Larrikin. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 231	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:30:23 - [98] - Quote Players almost exclusively just say 'microwarpdrive' or 'afterburner' when discussing propmods. They will do the same when talking to newbies. For a newbie, this clearly communicates 2 classes to them that are easy to distinguish by the relative speeds they get out of the mods. A 1mn vs 5mn name difference is not required for newbies and it is not required for established players. Its awkward and not used verbally or when typing in chat. It just muddies the waters. In fact, the flavor names that separate the class number distinguisher XMN from the "micro" or "afterburner" also contributes to confusion. The most important parts of the name is the XMN and the final word of the name. This is bad. The less middle-text there is, the more clear the name will be for newbies. Therefore, more flavor text is bad unless CCP figures out good SUFFIXES to put after 'Afterburner' or 'microwarpdrive'. I think the chance of that is low.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 339	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:32:01 - [99] - Quote Looks good to me at first glance. Most important, if I'm not mistaken, it will bot break my existing fits this time. I'm my own NPC alt.
Caljiav Ocanon KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 35	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:33:39 - [100] - Quote 1) Ever since I started playing I wondered why AB and MWDs were both scaled as 1/10/100MN when obviously the MWDs are faster. I like the change to 5/50/500 for MWDs as it makes sense. 2) Adding "extra" names to the modules is superfluous even if they sound cool. Long names will just get shortened by the players anyway and in a few years CCP_Someone will want to rename them to "make things easier/simpler/noob friendlier" again. 3) If you are doing all this why not just go ahead and make Cap/SuperCap mods? They all (maybe not all but damn) pack around 100MN MWDs now so might as well make it "official". 4) At least attempt to differentiate officer/deadspace in a meaningful way. 5) Try to keep "power creep" to a minimum on this. One or two percent probably won't make much of a difference depending on how you do things and where you put it but don't just blanket buff everything. This will create more problems than it will fix. ideally I'd like to see a little extra cleverness by CCP here rather than just speed buffs.
BadAssMcKill ElitistOps 984	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:36:12 - [101] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: ArchAngael wrote: Love the 5/50/500 change. I'm less sold on the names. I would rather see more subtlety. Personally I would rather see a certain flavor tag, like cold-gas, mean something specific across all modules and use that to indicate its role. For example, players could learn that cold-gas on any module means less cap use and anytime you see it, you know it's the cap saver module. You could add something to the Show Info to explain it and serve as a reference if people forget, but it would become one more bit of knowledge that makes you a better Eve player. Thats what the Compact (Lower fitting requirements), Enduring (Lower capacitor usage) & Restrained (Lower drawbacks) parts of the name indicate. If you look at some of the other module groups we've Tiericided, you'll see its consistent. "Cold-Gas" is flavor only. The problem arises when you attempt to combine this with flavour names everything becomes too wordy
Nik Domar Acerbus Vindictum The Camel Empire 6	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:36:30 - [102] - Quote I really like most of the changes here, giving reason to fit T2 MWD:s and compact modules bringing alternative to expensive digital/analog storyline prop mods. Those might open some really good new fitting options in fitting oversized prop mods. I know there are some concern over buffing faction and deadspace mwd:s to give more speed, but I would believe in practice change might not be that bad. I did however notice one little thing on new stats Mizuro's Modified 500MN Microwarpdrive [Meta Level 11; Powergrid 1350 (-150); CPU 67 (-7); Activation 270; Cap Penalty -7 (+1); Signature Bonus 440 (-4)%; Velocity Bonus 514 (+14)%; Overload Bonus 60 (+10)%] Current TQ stats give mizuros mwd activation of 255 GJ, is this change intended to make it consume more per cycle?
SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 243	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:39:11 - [103] - Quote Restrict propulsion modules from being fit to capital ships. Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
fenistil Space-Brewery-Association Did he say Jump 110	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:48:57 - [104] - Quote I would keep at least one module at meta 3/4. Simple reason: increase chances of invention. Also: 10% increase in activation cost between T1 and T2 for 1% speed increase and terrible fitting penalties: not worth it. Please reconsider the fitting consts and the activation/speed bonus ratios. .
Tyr Dolorem Snuff Box Snuffed Out 46	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:56:12 - [105] - Quote Don't really see the need for swapping around stats on the republic fleet/domination afterburner VS the fed navy/shadow serp. Why not leave the faction meta level that was higher the same?
Deus lmperator Sick That Duck 2	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:58:24 - [106] - Quote no pls no

CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 25	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:05:40 - [107] - Quote Nik Domar wrote: I did however notice one little thing on new stats Mizuro's Modified 500MN Microwarpdrive [Meta Level 11; Powergrid 1350 (-150); CPU 67 (-7); Activation 270; Cap Penalty -7 (+1); Signature Bonus 440 (-4)%; Velocity Bonus 514 (+14)%; Overload Bonus 60 (+10)%] Current TQ stats give mizuros mwd activation of 255 GJ, is this change intended to make it consume more per cycle? Yeah, the Mizuro's Modified 500MN Microwarpdrive currently on TQ is an anomaly at 255 GJ. All other officer modules come in at 324 or 270. I suspect it was a typo. We decided to bring it back in line.

elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 659	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:06:05 - [108] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: ...On the other hand gameplay changes increased the effects of sigtanking, currently you can tank a RLM orthrus in an AB astero for extended periods of time (without exile or even links), arguably sick. Now go with some more FOTM and you suddenly got a 10mn astero making 4.0km/s cold with a 25m sig, and a few bombers with polarized torps making 3km/s cold with a 35m sig. Right now they aren'T that fast, but an AB velocity increase would clearly push them over the top. eeeek!! Actually I was thinking more in the line of making 1mn ab's more suiting for frigates and 10mn for cruisers and so on. Some of the things I don't consider right away escape me sometimes. Sorry for that. I thought that sig-tanking was more of a True Sansha trait, so the Succubus, Phantasm and the Nightmare can do it to some extent. I wasn't looking to make Asteros go 4km/s with an 10mn ab. I had my True Sanaha ships in mind with the 'right size' afterburner. Let's hope we can make do without module restrictions, the outcry.... CCP while we are at module tiericide, can you consider making some small armor plates and shield extenders viable again? When you introduced 'weapon grouping' the smaller armor plates and shield extenders kinda went extinct over night to account for the inceased damage that ships have to soak up at once. (Read with grandpa Simpson voice) Back in the day our turrets and launchers were operation like this, gun1 - tick, gun2 - tick and so on and now it's 2-8x gun -> splat - tick. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
ArchAngael SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart. 18	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:11:49 - [109] - Quote BadAssMcKill wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: ArchAngael wrote: Love the 5/50/500 change. I'm less sold on the names. I would rather see more subtlety. Personally I would rather see a certain flavor tag, like cold-gas, mean something specific across all modules and use that to indicate its role. For example, players could learn that cold-gas on any module means less cap use and anytime you see it, you know it's the cap saver module. You could add something to the Show Info to explain it and serve as a reference if people forget, but it would become one more bit of knowledge that makes you a better Eve player. Thats what the Compact (Lower fitting requirements), Enduring (Lower capacitor usage) & Restrained (Lower drawbacks) parts of the name indicate. If you look at some of the other module groups we've Tiericided, you'll see its consistent. "Cold-Gas" is flavor only. The problem arises when you attempt to combine this with flavour names everything becomes too wordy Exactly this. I get that the Enduring, etc indicate the niche they fill, but I find the flavor text both more subtle and more ~immersive~ than just prepending Enduring or whatever. Both of them make the name too long and wordy, but I think a lot of people like the flavor text, so why not use the flavor text itself as the niche definition. Recruiter/Director of Supreme Mathematics Take my Eve Online Ship identification quiz at http://fenjaylabs.com/EveShipIdQuiz
Kaeda Maxwell Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement 342	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:16:52 - [110] - Quote Any chance you could explain to us the reasoning behind buffing T2 mods speed instead of nerfing the tier beneath it? Things have already gotten really fast in EVE first after the T1 cruiser buff and more recently with propulsion mode on T3D's. The reason people currently often fit named MWD's is because they have no meaningful penalty compared to T2. I know developers don't like 'nerfing' stuff but I think it would genuinely be better to nerf the lower ends instead of buffing the higher ends in this case to create meaningful choice. Even more speed seems like a bad idea for the overall health of PvP gameplay atm. Brawling was pretty dead already in anything bigger then frigates in the small gang meta, it really doesn't need another kick in the proverbial nuts.
Rivr Luzade Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi 1400	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:19:24 - [111] - Quote ArchAngael wrote: Exactly this. I get that the Enduring, etc indicate the niche they fill, but I find the flavor text both more subtle and more ~immersive~ than just prepending Enduring or whatever. Both of them make the name too long and wordy, but I think a lot of people like the flavor text, so why not use the flavor text itself as the niche definition. You can't have a Cold-Gas Shield Extender or Heavy Missile Launcher, or an Arbalest Tachyon Beam Laser. CCP replaced the variety of naming flavors with this new pattern that is tailored to cater to the dense in the world because it is too hard to memorize some names. Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
Baron Wikkheiser Best Kept Frozen. 11	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:25:39 - [112] - Quote Galphii wrote: I think the current top speeds are fine, perhaps reduce the low end instead of increasing the top end. Flavour names are consistent with other tiericided modules I guess, though I don't think they were necessary either. If you want to keep things simple, adding nonsense text to a module name isn't going to help. Otherwise, things looking good in those numbers. We are going to be watching how the small speed buff affects TQ. We've done a bunch of internal testing and don't expect it to have a large impact on the meta. That said, give us your feedback! There are 4 weeks till release.[/quote] The thing is that the meta is already bad. All these high speed hulls do is to limit choice. People have been choosing hulls that ignore the little problem of projection and application against 4kms cruisers. And while Fozzie and Rise may think it's awesome that many of the best small gang ships are kiting RLML and drone ships, I think I can vouch for some people that it just gets mind numbing using these one-dimensional ships over and over because they are the best option right now
Charlie Firpol Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc. Monkeys with Guns. 311	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:26:33 - [113] - Quote A friend of mine that regulary flies boosted, snaked factionfit Garmurs just did the numbers. His Garmur will be 1440m/s faster after this, without heat. The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Phaade Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF 331	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:28:05 - [114] - Quote Please reduce MWD velocity bonus. 400% is still plenty fast. AB's are still relatively too slow, bordering on uselessness except for niche stuff like gate hugging or FW plex button fighting. Or even more niche, dual prop.
Oddsodz The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. 153	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:28:46 - [115] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: We are going to be watching how the small speed buff affects TQ. We've done a bunch of internal testing and don't expect it to have a large impact on the meta. That said, give us your feedback! There are 4 weeks till release. Yeh, Like We really needed that Garmar to have a speed boost with his unkillabe link ship sitting on a gate., The SPEED CREEP is real. Thanks for that. /walks away unhappy.
Masao Kurata Franchise Warfare 222	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:32:47 - [116] - Quote Hmm, an A-type mwd is now 3.35% faster than any mwd with these stats if my maths is right. I'm not sure whether to be concerned or not, ships are already very fast but that's not a big number. RIP explaining to people that the 1MN/10MN/100MN correspond to the ship mass at which the drive performs at specification. I don't see 5/50/500 as a simplification at all. On flavour names in general, I wonder if you've considered what this means for chat, ship scanners (which badly need usability enhancements but that's another topic) and cargo scanners? Longer names run off the window or get wrapped in chat very frequently. However I absolutely love the three different meta mwds, especially the addition of compact, and that there's a compelling reason to fit T2. Maybe just have all meta 5+ MWDs give 510% base speed boost? The cap penalty is already a strong reason to fit higher meta, it's not like these modules aren't in demand now.
prolix travail Blue Mountain Trails 29	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:34:41 - [117] - Quote It looks like a nice change. Having options for fitting mwds appeals to me in particular; Do I need flat out speed or better fitting? maybe i need to be cap stable today? yeah, I like it a lot. A few things: Having the type of mod (restrained/compact) directly after the class (1mn/5mn etc..) would make it easier to search for. Increasing speed is a little concerning, as others have said, particularly in the 5mn size bracket. and Will the new modules be made from bpcs or added to the loot table?
Soldarius Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 1264	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:35:07 - [118] - Quote SpaceSaft wrote: I too like the 1mn mwd to 5mn mwd change. I don't like much else about the naming though. Looks like obfuscating, nonhelpful fluff to me. Could you try saying those names 5 times from memory without messing something up or forgetting words? Because I don't think you can. 1MN Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters. 10MN Y-T8 Monopropellant Thrusters. 100MN Quad LiF Booster Rockets. 10MN Monopropellant Hydrazine Boosters. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=708244#post708244 :negative: Challenge Failed. Was fun trying though. I liked me some Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Phaade Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF 331	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:45:11 - [119] - Quote Ncc 1709 wrote: so some simple math your ship does 200m/s and you get a 500% speed boost, your ship now does 1200m/s your ship does 200m/s and you get a 518% speed boost, your ship now does 1236m/s is that really going to cause that much of an issue??? real ship example... Crow, base speed 637 and speed with mwd 4454 using a 518% and speed is 4762 so using a prop mod that's 4x the value of the ship gives you an extra 300m/s in an interceptor... every day players wont notice much change. only the extreme edge cases will any difference be noticed , ie snake sets with full links and faction nano's with quafe... its not going to change much at all Yes... it is a problem... because your ship might do 450m/s Then you add overheating and links and it's not just 36m/s.... CCP really should take their anvil off the gas and apply the brakes.

CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 29	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:50:00 - [120] - Quote Charlie Firpol wrote: A friend of mine that regulary flies boosted, snaked factionfit Garmurs just did the numbers. His Garmur will be 1440m/s faster after this, without heat. Hrm, Can I see you friends math? With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting - 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded prolix travail wrote: Will the new modules be made from bpcs or added to the loot table? Good question! They are added to the loot table.


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