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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
340
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Posted - 2015.05.06 22:03:34 -
[271] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Why not just nerf speed links now if they are admitted to be a key problem?
Finally some sense!! |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
34
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Posted - 2015.05.06 23:25:05 -
[272] - Quote
Any kind of link is a problem.
Why nerf link exclusivly and only for speed ?
The progression thing is quite awsome, just lower it for Velocity Bonus, like idk :
5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 495 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 500 5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 500 5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 500 5MN Microwarpdrive II : Velocity Bonus 505 5MN Digital Booster Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 505 Federation Navy 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 507 Shadow Serpentis 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 507 Republic Fleet 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 507 Domination 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 507 Coreli C-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 509 Gistii C-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 509 Coreli B-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 511 Gistii B-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 511 Coreli A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 513 Gistii A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive : Velocity Bonus 513
Or raise Activation Cost, lower Cycle.. idk. But links aren't the issue at all. |
Lug Muad'Dib
Wise Humans Sword
44
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Posted - 2015.05.06 23:43:34 -
[273] - Quote
Good job, i love this tiericide. And i don't unerstant what 2% speed buff for deadspace mwd will change it will almost make no diferrence in real combat situation..
D-Scan immunity is dumb.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3284
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Posted - 2015.05.07 00:23:41 -
[274] - Quote
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:Good job, i love this tiericide. And i don't unerstant what 2% speed buff for deadspace mwd will change it will almost make no diferrence in real combat situation..
you are looking at one number. all attributes combined make them the better module. if all you want is speed its probably not worth it
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Crimsons Storm
Pseudonym. Shadow Cartel
13
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Posted - 2015.05.07 03:39:56 -
[275] - Quote
Quote:Goals of Module Tiericide - Reduce unnecessary complexity
So increasing the amount of propulsion modules by way of giving us more modules with differing benefits and at the same time renaming some of the subtypes, you create less complexity ?
CCP logic at it finest
I applaud some of the changes...i however disagree to the notion that you are making it simpler |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2437
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Posted - 2015.05.07 05:58:28 -
[276] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote:1) Do not increase the top MWD speeds, if anything nerf the lower ends. I personally would like to see the whole scale dropped to make Afterburners more feasible.
or
1a) Buff Afterburners!!!!!! - However I second what many are saying about speed VS. Server ticks. I think grid speed should be dropped overall. IF you look at the impact of boosters, drugs, Wormhole effects, High-end modules/ships....we have enough speed. Kiting is the meta already just a tad too much. (ISHTARs online....HALF of that equation is speed versus....the other half was the sentries.) Just a thought!!! Howabout add something to close the gap a bit? Doesn't need to be a new module type, instead I propose prop mod scripts: Afterburner script: increases speed a lot but greatly increases capacitor consumption to an amount higher than MWD consumes MWD script: reduces speed a lot, but reduces sig penalty a lot more
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
618
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Posted - 2015.05.07 07:49:05 -
[277] - Quote
Thank you so much for making the deadspace ABs all the same speed. I am sure the other folks who chose them based on the speed bonus are all cheering. Really.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
669
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Posted - 2015.05.07 08:36:52 -
[278] - Quote
Why do the Gistii and Corellii MWD's have the same speed bonus? This is pure homogenization of those two lines of modules.
One should give very high speed with higher cap consumption
The other should give T2 speed with heavily reduced drawbacks (v.low sig penalty and capacitor penalty)
This way the Deadspace modules would have differentiation. |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
356
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Posted - 2015.05.07 08:57:13 -
[279] - Quote
Wait wut...
You want to Differentiate and OFFER CHOICE and the whole "fitting vs speed" thing was a valid choice and now it isnt? Seems eeehm, Counter productive... |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
618
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Posted - 2015.05.07 09:07:57 -
[280] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Why do the Gistii and Corellii MWD's have the same speed bonus? This is pure homogenization of those two lines of modules.
One should give very high speed with higher cap consumption
The other should give T2 speed with heavily reduced drawbacks (v.low sig penalty and capacitor penalty)
This way the Deadspace modules would have differentiation. Also the ABs are homogenized, when it was a much bigger range on ABs than MWDs before. It is like they went with the difference that most people cared least about as the major distinction. This aggravates me.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
538
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Posted - 2015.05.07 14:38:51 -
[281] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Ms Michigan wrote:1) Do not increase the top MWD speeds, if anything nerf the lower ends. I personally would like to see the whole scale dropped to make Afterburners more feasible.
or
1a) Buff Afterburners!!!!!! - However I second what many are saying about speed VS. Server ticks. I think grid speed should be dropped overall. IF you look at the impact of boosters, drugs, Wormhole effects, High-end modules/ships....we have enough speed. Kiting is the meta already just a tad too much. (ISHTARs online....HALF of that equation is speed versus....the other half was the sentries.) Just a thought!!! Howabout add something to close the gap a bit? Doesn't need to be a new module type, instead I propose prop mod scripts: Afterburner script: increases speed a lot but greatly increases capacitor consumption to an amount higher than MWD consumes MWD script: reduces speed a lot, but reduces sig penalty a lot more
The 3/5MN and 30/50MN mid-tier Afterburners - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=419044&find=unread
P workable soluation.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Arla Sarain
430
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:47:10 -
[282] - Quote
AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
229
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Posted - 2015.05.07 16:24:23 -
[283] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy.
Except, y'know, that removes the fitting decision. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1019
|
Posted - 2015.05.07 16:25:08 -
[284] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy.
ABs got a bunch of scenarios in which they are used, and they are by far not limited to FW. They're used for solo, for spidertanks, for Fleets. Bhaalgorns fit ABs to ensure speed tracking against dreads supported by not reliably jammed lokis. They are amazing for mirror matchups and are frequently used near gates/holes/stations or other points where an orthrus isn't autowin against pmuch anything.
There is no lack of need for ABs, but mwds scale a lot better for small gangs, especially in FW. 5 tanky tristans are bad compared to 5 very fast and ganky tristans, that though is not a sign that something with ABs is wrong. |
Arla Sarain
431
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Posted - 2015.05.07 16:28:04 -
[285] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy. Except, y'know, that removes the fitting decision. Fit X to win Fit Y to lose
Fitting decisions Hurrah. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
539
|
Posted - 2015.05.07 16:38:18 -
[286] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy. Except, y'know, that removes the fitting decision.
So two new types of charges to carry in the cargo hold.
/not sure
Then again, it could keep nanugaffers in check, and limit the length, and the number of such engagements that one can undertake if consumption is anything like the Entosis Link, yo.
Brawling paradise! pâ+a++a¦ê+ä-£a¦êa++n+ë
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2437
|
Posted - 2015.05.07 16:44:57 -
[287] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy. Howabout combine my script idea and your fuel idea, leave in fitting decisions but keep them broad so that one choice doesn't dramatically narrow a pilot's possibilities:
AB without fuel: +135% speed AB with fuel: +210% speed MWD without fuel: +325% speed, +325% sig radius MWD with fuel: +500% speed, +500% sig radius
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
539
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Posted - 2015.05.07 16:47:42 -
[288] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy. Howabout combine my script idea and your fuel idea, leave in fitting decisions but keep them broad so that one choice doesn't dramatically narrow a pilot's possibilities: AB without fuel: +135% speed AB with fuel: +210% speed MWD without fuel: +325% speed, +325% sig radius MWD with fuel: +500% speed, +500% sig radius
Fuel AB is OP.
AB script shouldn't consume fuel, while MWD scripts should only work with fuel under such a system.
Speed boost amounts for said scripts could be left as currently is. vOv
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Arla Sarain
433
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Posted - 2015.05.07 16:55:16 -
[289] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy. Except, y'know, that removes the fitting decision. So two new types of charges to carry in the cargo hold. Not if the fuel is strontium
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Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
41
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:05:04 -
[290] - Quote
What is the sence of adding new types of MWD's? Two t1 modofications of module were totally enought. Give -20% to cap to all standard (non-faction) MWD's, so there will no need in one extra module type. |
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Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
225
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:53:56 -
[291] - Quote
Some quick points about the changes I like:
- 5MN/50MN/500MN change is fine. Good to distinguish between MWD and AB, and faster to search for the size you want in the market.
- Happy to see the old-school flavor names coming back (Cold-Gas ArcJets and Y-T8 Overcharged Hydocarbon especially) in some form.
Some concerns and things I'd like to see changed or looked at:
- I don't think the Meta level AB/MWD need any speed increase. I feel comfortable with a slight increase for the Faction and Deadspace level modules, but a general increase in speed for all prop mods seems unnecessary and definitely promotes speed creep. Fast ships are already extremely fast, and this will just compound it. When you look at weapon systems that have velocity in their damage formula like missiles, this change is basically another overall nerf to missile damage application, which is already extremely poor in some cases.
- I would very much like to see a general increase in the amount of cycles it is possible to overheat a Microwarpdrive before you risk burning it out. I can't tell from any of the updated stats in the Google Doc if this will be changed. In-game we only have the Heat Damage and Structure Hitpoints columns, but I'm not 100% sure on the formula for the damage - but a 1MN and 10MN Microwarp drive both have the same amount of Structure Hitpoints (40HP). I find that you can really overheat a 1MN MWD for 2-3 cycles at most before you risk burning it out, and that's with Thermodynamics 5. If you go into a cycle where you're already at 70% damage, you have a really high chance of burning it out after the cycle completes.
- I'd like to see more module HP added in general to give us more ability to heat, especially with lower skill levels; and either (or additionally) halve the module cycle time and the capacitor time, so we can shut the heat off faster when we don't need it, and better micromanage our heat. That way when we miss a cycle turning off the heat because we're doing so many other things, it won't be as catastrophic.
- In addition to the above, varying the HP and overheat levels could be another valuable choice when looking at the modules. The "Enduring" level could have more module HP and take less heat damage, for example. Or it could be a faction choice. Some ships like the T3 Destroyers already get a 5%/Level reduction in module heat damage so this would have to be balanced to not make this overpowered, but it would be a valuable choice when choosing modules.
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
542
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Posted - 2015.05.08 04:19:34 -
[292] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy. Except, y'know, that removes the fitting decision. So two new types of charges to carry in the cargo hold. Not if the fuel is strontium
Stront producer detected.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
948
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Posted - 2015.05.08 07:06:53 -
[293] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:AB and MWD should just be combined into 1 modules, you add fuel to the module and it behaves like an MWD, otherwise its an AB. Then you wouldn't need to rename anything, speed creep wouldn't be such a problem, the enormous disparity between the two modules would be gone and severe lack of a reason to actually use an AB for anything outside of FW plexs would be irrelevant.
The fuel wouldn't have to be a script and could actually be consumable which is more stuff out of the economy.
I have been advocating this for years. Too bad it won't ever happen.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
88
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Posted - 2015.05.08 10:16:33 -
[294] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Bring back some of the old school flavor names (Cold-Gas!) Why would you go from the old random system to the system we how now that's all streamlined on naming which helps new and old players work out what is what then decide its a cool idea to just be like... "hay guys you know when we made it easy to work out which is the best mod from its name.... well we just put all the names in a random number generator and this is what it is now... o but we are only changing it for MWD's"
******** change is ********. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2045
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Posted - 2015.05.08 11:16:37 -
[295] - Quote
Tappits wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:
Bring back some of the old school flavor names (Cold-Gas!) Why would you go from the old random system to the system we how now that's all streamlined on naming which helps new and old players work out what is what then decide its a cool idea to just be like... "hay guys you know when we made it easy to work out which is the best mod from its name.... well we just put all the names in a random number generator and this is what it is now... o but we are only changing it for MWD's" ******** change is ********. They are not only changing it for these modules. All module groups are being rebalanced and renamed.
The prop mods names were just awful. Far too bland compared to the old goodness.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
41
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Posted - 2015.05.08 12:05:01 -
[296] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:Some quick points about the changes I like:
I don't think the Meta level AB/MWD need any speed increase. I feel comfortable with a slight increase for the Faction and Deadspace level modules, but a general increase in speed for all prop mods seems unnecessary and definitely promotes speed creep. Fast ships are already extremely fast, and this will just compound it. When you look at weapon systems that have velocity in their damage formula like missiles, this change is basically another overall nerf to missile damage application, which is already extremely poor in some cases.
Agree, speed creep ia already too big. On a caldary ship 5% will give nothing, but on minmatar interceptor it will a big bonus under boosts.
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Mystical Might
V0LTA Triumvirate.
186
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Posted - 2015.05.08 12:55:55 -
[297] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Ransu Asanari wrote:Some quick points about the changes I like:
I don't think the Meta level AB/MWD need any speed increase. I feel comfortable with a slight increase for the Faction and Deadspace level modules, but a general increase in speed for all prop mods seems unnecessary and definitely promotes speed creep. Fast ships are already extremely fast, and this will just compound it. When you look at weapon systems that have velocity in their damage formula like missiles, this change is basically another overall nerf to missile damage application, which is already extremely poor in some cases. Agree, speed creep ia already too big. On a caldary ship 5% will give nothing, but on minmatar interceptor it will a big bonus under boosts.
So nerf the minmatar interceptor downwards just a tad bit, to keep the speeds the same? |
Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
41
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Posted - 2015.05.08 12:56:33 -
[298] - Quote
Mystical Might wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:Ransu Asanari wrote:Some quick points about the changes I like:
I don't think the Meta level AB/MWD need any speed increase. I feel comfortable with a slight increase for the Faction and Deadspace level modules, but a general increase in speed for all prop mods seems unnecessary and definitely promotes speed creep. Fast ships are already extremely fast, and this will just compound it. When you look at weapon systems that have velocity in their damage formula like missiles, this change is basically another overall nerf to missile damage application, which is already extremely poor in some cases. Agree, speed creep ia already too big. On a caldary ship 5% will give nothing, but on minmatar interceptor it will a big bonus under boosts. So nerf the minmatar interceptor downwards just a tad bit, to keep the speeds the same? What if I have AB fit? |
Sieonigh
Rim Collection RC Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
46
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Posted - 2015.05.08 19:29:16 -
[299] - Quote
i feel the republic fleet, domination and the gist ABs are getting a RAW deal here
Module..................................................type..............meta......PG......CPU.....CAP cost......speed boost.....overload Federation Navy 100MN Afterburner.......Faction........8 (+1)...625......55........240 (-80)............145 (+4).............50 Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner...Faction..........8 (+1)...625......55........240 (-80)............145 (+4).............50 Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner..........Faction..........8.........688......50........320 (+79)...........145 (+1).............50 Domination 100MN Afterburner...............Faction..........8.........688......50........320 (+79)...........145 (+1).............50 Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner.........Deadspace.....10 (-1)....625......58........240 (-1)...............150.....................50 Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner...........Deadspace.....10 (-1)....750......50........320......................150 (-3).............50
this pattern is consistent with all higher meta ABs and all sizes as you can see here the cap cost for the RF, domi and gist have been majorly nerfed while the galeti equivalent has been buffed, both are now the same speed with the RF/ Domi one only being 5 less CPU benifit.
so now its gonna be a no brainer when it comes to choosing faction and deadspace ABs
make RF/domi/ gist AB faster to their meta counterparts for it to be worth the cap cost, otherwise they will not be worth it. |
Little Kicks
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2015.05.08 21:52:18 -
[300] - Quote
Lochiel wrote:How about having the order of the name be nMN [Modifier Name] [Flavor Name] [MWD|AB]
So that when I search for "5MN Restrained" I get exactly the module I was looking for?
I agree with moving flavor names towards the back. They seem unnecessary, but at least keep them out of the way.
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