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Confirm/Deny: All T1 Expanded Cargohold BPOs are now T2

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Scorched Evil The Silent Rage YouWhat	Posted - 2006.11.14 17:28:00 - [331] Ping request could not find host ccp. Please check the name and try again. Ready for the RAGE? Join The Silent Rage Today! Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Alvara	Posted - 2006.11.14 19:27:00 - [332] Bounce Not going to let this issue die till there is a dev response.
Mazza	Posted - 2006.11.14 19:43:00 - [333] it'll get deleted or closed be4 that m8
Lothendra Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:20:00 - [334] Finally, I have just been able to look on SISI, and my Expander I BPO print (from the last mirror back in october 10th) has changed to a II: 2006.11.14.21.03.51.jpg I would like to know if the change happened on SISI before it hit TQ, and if so, the only people who would know about it are those who already had T1 BPOs, were able to negotiate the log-on queue on sisi, and be bothered to check them or notice that they'd changed by accident. They would then have the motive to try and get hold of as many of them as they could, or otherwise profit from this before the change hit TQ.
Metis AT	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:57:00 - [335] Originally by: Fubear Basically the bottom line is that those people who have a money printing machine are guaranteed to keep that money printing machine forever, since if it ever becomes 'baseline' CCP will upgrade you for free to the next level of money printing machine? I am a producer, and I hate the whole T2 production situation. The BPO's SHOULD be on the market (at 10x cost of T1 BPs), RP should be used for invention, and moon mining components will become the valuable commodity. With T2 prints publicly available, demand for POS components will go up while supply remains stable. The people who build, maintain, and defend mining POS's or have good supply contracts with others who do will be able to fill their supply of components and make maximum profit. Those who only buy T2 components from the market would suffer and forced to sell at near cost to make any profit at all. Reward for people who are prepared to put in the time and effort to production. Sadly, CCP seem to think that the lottery is a fantastic idea, particularly one that pays out over and over and over again if you win. this is actually a great idea. Unfortunately they have already put too much time into invention. They should seriously look at this. Yeah they put time into invention, but it doesnt make the game any more intersting. They should seed all tech 2 bpo's They should just treat the bpo like a patent. Limited run. Make it something like 1 year of monopoly on the product. Like this poster said, Prices would still stay high, as the price for moon minerals skyrockected.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:10:00 - [336] Just to point out that negative critics might not represent all of the players: I think upgrading existing BPOs was about the fairest thing to handle this transformation. - T1 BPO owners get to keep their valuable investment - T1 BPC speculators took the gamble, and should have known the risks knowing the risks - Alas, people who sought to get T2 Expander BPO from lottery got kind of nerf, which CCP could still fix by seeding another batch of these BPOs (so in the end we would have twice the normal amount of T2 Expander BPOs). Please, if you oppose a way some transition was handled, please also give your suggestions of fair method to all parties (including those rich BPO owners). -Lasse who also invested heavily on Nanite Engineering, but doesn't see the sky falling P.S. There are basicly two method to distribute 'rare' items: grind or luck. I prefer the luck based system, just like CCP has.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:16:00 - [337] Quote: Not going to let this issue die till there is a dev response That won't happen, they already look like idiots, showing their face here would not help that and they know it...
Hertford Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:33:00 - [338] Originally by: Metis AT Originally by: Fubear Basically the bottom line is that those people who have a money printing machine are guaranteed to keep that money printing machine forever, since if it ever becomes 'baseline' CCP will upgrade you for free to the next level of money printing machine? I am a producer, and I hate the whole T2 production situation. The BPO's SHOULD be on the market (at 10x cost of T1 BPs), RP should be used for invention, and moon mining components will become the valuable commodity. With T2 prints publicly available, demand for POS components will go up while supply remains stable. The people who build, maintain, and defend mining POS's or have good supply contracts with others who do will be able to fill their supply of components and make maximum profit. Those who only buy T2 components from the market would suffer and forced to sell at near cost to make any profit at all. Reward for people who are prepared to put in the time and effort to production. Sadly, CCP seem to think that the lottery is a fantastic idea, particularly one that pays out over and over and over again if you win. this is actually a great idea. Unfortunately they have already put too much time into invention. They should seriously look at this. Yeah they put time into invention, but it doesnt make the game any more intersting. They should seed all tech 2 bpo's They should just treat the bpo like a patent. Limited run. Make it something like 1 year of monopoly on the product. Like this poster said, Prices would still stay high, as the price for moon minerals skyrockected. I consider myself converted. Before reading the above, I would have said seeding T2 BPOs onto the market would be a bad idea.
Hockston Axe Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:50:00 - [339] Edited by: Hockston Axe on 14/11/2006 22:51:20 Originally by: Heikki Just to point out that negative critics might not represent all of the players: I think upgrading existing BPOs was about the fairest thing to handle this transformation. - T1 BPO owners get to keep their valuable investment - T1 BPC speculators took the gamble, and should have known the risks knowing the risks So it's perfectly fine to protect the BPO investment but not the BPC investment? Look at those two arguments and tell me with a straight face that you're not trying to tell me that 3+2 and 2+3 doesn't equal the same thing.
Katana Sengoku Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2006.11.14 23:05:00 - [340] Edited by: Katana Sengoku on 14/11/2006 23:05:31 Originally by: Heikki Just to point out that negative critics might not represent all of the players: I think upgrading existing BPOs was about the fairest thing to handle this transformation. - T1 BPO owners get to keep their valuable investment - T1 BPC speculators took the gamble, and should have known the risks knowing the risks - Alas, people who sought to get T2 Expander BPO from lottery got kind of nerf, which CCP could still fix by seeding another batch of these BPOs (so in the end we would have twice the normal amount of T2 Expander BPOs). So, after you say it was the fairest thing... you then say the research people got nerfed... that doesn't seem fair to me. And then giving a reason to make it better IF and ONLY if CCP seeds more bpos. Also, people make valuable investments everyday... some good some bad... some bpcs... some bpos... some t2 bpos... just cuz you buy a bpo for a player set price, doesn't mean CCP should consider that in their decisions. Doesn't make sense to all t2 owners who paid 40 bil for a HAC bpo, when t3 comes out... will CCP protect their invenstment? Its plain as the nose on your face... CCP totally misled and lied to its players, and shafted thousands. Heck, if I were them, I'd hide in a hole for eternity. ROFL.
Oolok	Posted - 2006.11.14 23:36:00 - [341] Originally by: Katana Sengoku ....... Doesn't make sense to all t2 owners who paid 40 bil for a HAC bpo, when t3 comes out... will CCP protect their invenstment? That's probably what we are goint to get, in case Tech 3 is coming. Same situation then. Only a few Tech 2 BPO's in the game. So if they wanna make everbody able to "invent" Tech 3, they need to seed Tech 2 in the market and upgrade the Tech 2 BPOs of those guys who already where lucky once and whom obviously CCP cares most. And by the way no answer is also an answer. That's even a greater dissappointment than making a mistake or just having another point of view than a lot of people that postet in this thread.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.14 23:41:00 - [342] no answer means they take the easy way out and just let it sit.
MindDragon	Posted - 2006.11.15 01:01:00 - [343] You know, this game is starting to get more frustrating the more I play it. CCP doesn't provide any response to this issue. Here's another issue. I'm sitting in a 0.0 sector and I have a bug and I try to open a petition for "Stuck". There is no opportunity for me to fill out my petition. So I fill out a technical support request. After all, I have a 300m isk bug right now and it's important. 3 days has gone by since it has started and I cannot play the game. How is this fair??? We're being ignored while CCP allows others to rake in billions of ISK on insider trading. If this is how it's going to be, I am seriously going to start encouraging people to leave this game as it is completely unplayable. CCP -> You need to respond now. MD ------ It's a very old problem. Allow me to explain. Jita has the best commercially available computer hardware in the world and it has its own node. Consider that for a moment. (Credit: Cmdr Sy)
Peri Helion Amarr Omega Whiskey Tango Foxtrot	Posted - 2006.11.15 02:11:00 - [344] Originally by: Heikki Just to point out that negative critics might not represent all of the players: I think upgrading existing BPOs was about the fairest thing to handle this transformation. - T1 BPO owners get to keep their valuable investment - T1 BPC speculators took the gamble, and should have known the risks knowing the risks - Alas, people who sought to get T2 Expander BPO from lottery got kind of nerf, which CCP could still fix by seeding another batch of these BPOs (so in the end we would have twice the normal amount of T2 Expander BPOs). Please, if you oppose a way some transition was handled, please also give your suggestions of fair method to all parties (including those rich BPO owners). -Lasse who also invested heavily on Nanite Engineering, but doesn't see the sky falling P.S. There are basicly two method to distribute 'rare' items: grind or luck. I prefer the luck based system, just like CCP has. Heikki, I really don't think you are being constructive to imply that nobody has provided a good alternative. Specifically the key alternative centers arround the fact that not a single person who owned one of these BPOs previously who sold it before the conversion has chimed in here to say "yeah, we thought our T1 BPO was a mistake all along and we are glad that CCP converted it finally" so what makes you think ANY holders of T1 BPOs thought they would get a free upgrade? Therefore how would the seeding of T2 BPOs through the lottery be a nerf to them? They also expected T2 BPOs to become available through the lottery based on their silence in this matter. However, every R&D player had an expectation that the BPO Lottery would be the means by which this was distributed. Nobody from CCP has yet posted why it was not possible to distribute these via the stated game mechanic rather than a magic wand of changing. And as a further rebuttal, and I would love for somebody to refute this; if this magic wand of changing method was designed to protect the "investment" of those BPO holders, why the hell did they magic wand change the Micro BPOs to Small BPOS and nerf those people? Where is the investment protection there? However, the root issue isn't simply who got what, but rather integrity. When a large population of your player base is unhappy/concerned about a stealth change then an explanatory post is surely warranted. If CCP were Blizzard I could understand the silence, but CCP prides themselves on open communication. So to me this is the greatest sin of all for this episode.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:35:00 - [345] I think the players need to take the proper steps here. EVERYONE disgusted with this needs to do the following... (for entertainment purposes only) :-) 1. File a petition in-game under 'reimbursement' for your time. 2. File an email petition through the website with tech support asking if this was a technical glitch. 3. Email kieron in-game with your questions, comments, and concerns. 4. Cancel your account until a worthy explanation is given. 5. Activly post on other gaming sites the situation CCP has put you in. 6. Play out the remainder of you gaming subscription sitting at a Jita gate of your choosing. If my calculations are correct... this would be indeed a few thousand people. Hahaha... who's laughing now?
Nathanial Victor	Posted - 2006.11.15 04:07:00 - [346] this seems like a VERY hot topic. I think i would like to comment. SEED ALL BPO's. SCREW TEH LOTTERY, SCREW INVENTION You can fight all you want in this game, but no amount of combat will ever result in you 'getting lucky' and becoming a perma-billionaire. No, not even killing the top NPC officer and getting his best loot will you come close to the FREE isk that a BPO gives you. To all the boo-hoo's in here: you deserve it. To the ppl that make out better than the boo-hoo's getting free t2 stuff: status quo How about we come up with something to provide our 'researchers' that doesn't involve permanent wealth forever? How about batches of BPC's? We'll even be nice and for a year of research you can have 50 HAC BPCs!!! Thats roughly middle-of-the-road worth 12 and a half billion! Yeah i know, not the 100 billion you were hoping for, but time for a bit of fairness in the gametime/isk gap between the professions
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.11.15 04:56:00 - [347] Originally by: Nathanial Victor this seems like a VERY hot topic. I think i would like to comment. SEED ALL BPO's. SCREW TEH LOTTERY, SCREW INVENTION You can fight all you want in this game, but no amount of combat will ever result in you 'getting lucky' and becoming a perma-billionaire. No, not even killing the top NPC officer and getting his best loot will you come close to the FREE isk that a BPO gives you. To all the boo-hoo's in here: you deserve it. To the ppl that make out better than the boo-hoo's getting free t2 stuff: status quo How about we come up with something to provide our 'researchers' that doesn't involve permanent wealth forever? How about batches of BPC's? We'll even be nice and for a year of research you can have 50 HAC BPCs!!! Thats roughly middle-of-the-road worth 12 and a half billion! Yeah i know, not the 100 billion you were hoping for, but time for a bit of fairness in the gametime/isk gap between the professions Umm... why would anyone use T1 ever again?
Skyy Caldari Veni-Vidi-Vici	Posted - 2006.11.15 05:43:00 - [348] Edited by: Skyy on 15/11/2006 05:45:22 Originally by: Nathanial Victor this seems like a VERY hot topic. I think i would like to comment. SEED ALL BPO's. SCREW TEH LOTTERY, SCREW INVENTION You can fight all you want in this game, but no amount of combat will ever result in you 'getting lucky' and becoming a perma-billionaire. No, not even killing the top NPC officer and getting his best loot will you come close to the FREE isk that a BPO gives you. To all the boo-hoo's in here: you deserve it. To the ppl that make out better than the boo-hoo's getting free t2 stuff: status quo How about we come up with something to provide our 'researchers' that doesn't involve permanent wealth forever? How about batches of BPC's? We'll even be nice and for a year of research you can have 50 HAC BPCs!!! Thats roughly middle-of-the-road worth 12 and a half billion! Yeah i know, not the 100 billion you were hoping for, but time for a bit of fairness in the gametime/isk gap between the professions His delievery isn't the best.. but a very good and valid point did come up. Why are these ONE players and corps getting all the wealth? Perhaps all these t2 bpos should become bpcs... limited runs. Then just reseed more every couple of months. I mean the way we're going here, it'll be 2 more years until t3 and by then we'll still have the same greedy bunch hanging on to all the t2 bpos. Not to mention who knows how many more CCP ** ups there will be. This is a game... and people play to make it to be uber. Yes, its unlike any other game out there where you can have monopolies, but perhaps thats a hidden downfall to all this. Make t2 bpos limited licensed copies... and spread the wealth.** I'm sure I'll get heat, but I mean come on... once you get your first 50 bil, I think its time to move on to a bigger challenge other than raking in other's isk like nothing. This also will keep the research market open and get what CCP wants... more people playing longer if they get more chances to get their hands on a rare item. it won't change the supply or demand... but just the wealth and direction of where its all going.
Aziza Gallente Immobiliare	Posted - 2006.11.15 08:28:00 - [349] How we can trust CCP now? ------------------------- Thank you
Selena Ramone	Posted - 2006.11.15 09:25:00 - [350] I also would like to hear a comment on this issue by CCP. I doubt that we get one though
Laendra	Posted - 2006.11.15 11:35:00 - [351] Re: Seeding BPOs. Players use T1/Faction until they have skills to use T2. Players will use T2 until they have skills to use T3, etc. At most, the exclusive right to own the BPOs should remain for 3-6 months...in which time the BPO owners will make a nice amount of ISK (because we all know that there are players out there that MUST buy the latest and greatest)...but won't become insanely wealthy (i.e. no ISK printing machines). The BPOs get seeded on the market, then other people can come into the T2 production business. This serves a multiple purpose. 1) It prevents the lucky few from getting insane amounts of ISK perpetually...2) It drives up the demand for T2 construction components, which drives up the cost of T2 construction components 3) Because T2 construction component prices are going up, more people will want to move to low sec/0.0 space to produce these goods to meet the demand, which will cause more conflict over areas of space, which will cause more ships to be lost, which will drive up demand for T2 items, which will increase the price of T2 construction components, etc. I say this as an owner of several T2 BPOs, and producer of several others for other people. -------------------
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.15 11:37:00 - [352] it also prevents RL $$$ from ebay buying up all the t2 BPOs in gme as well. CCP need to do invention right as a anti farming measure
Steven Dynahir Gallente Avaruuslaivanrakentajat Oyj	Posted - 2006.11.15 13:07:00 - [353] Originally by: Aziza How we can trust CCP now? We can't. --- Sell orders Recruitment
Laendra	Posted - 2006.11.15 13:41:00 - [354] Originally by: Steven Dynahir Originally by: Aziza How we can trust CCP now? We can't. Trust could be restored if they respond to the community and then fix this ****up. -------------------
Mazza	Posted - 2006.11.15 13:50:00 - [355] oh look they've not responded too busy counting all their cash no doubt

Tirg Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.11.15 13:58:00 - [356] click this thread has degenerated into bumps. All that anyone wants to discuss, obviously already has. If you have any questions, email us at [email protected]. Now your sig is mine MUAHAHAHAHAHA - Xorus


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