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Confirm/Deny: All T1 Expanded Cargohold BPOs are now T2

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Sebastian Valance Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:23:00 - [181] well, what choice do we really have? want a tech 2 bpo? get into the r&d lotto like everyone else or go hunt down somebody that owns one and harass the living ** out of them til the surrender and give it up. seeing how the owners are prolly extremely well protected, that leaves the first option...do the r&d dance of joy oh well, there is no other way, and this being the best ** MMO on planet Earth, CCP knows they can pretty must run the universe of New Eden anyway they want. excuse me, time to go play with the r&d agent again...this is almost as much fun as spamming POS's... ______________________________________________ This is my new MAIN; give me a few days and I will get a Corp going...
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:30:00 - [182] Originally by: Bermag I really don't understand why people are so upset about this. Except for those who has been buying expanded cargo I bpcs. The only thing you might have lost is the very small chance to have won a T2 Expander BPO in the future. Becuase you are handing over someone who made billions on a rare bpo, another bpo that will indeed make their last billions look like pocket change. The bpos should of been released like they intended too... in the lottery. The same lottery we all whined about and the same lottery they (CCP) stood by... and the same lottery we all trusted and put our hopes into. We all know our chances are slim to none in getting any t2 bpo, but this is just a slap in the face. Little hope became NO hope... and in the end I'd rather have little hope and someone who deserves to make billions be rewared for putting in his time and effort. Not some hack who could of got his few bil from timecards or ebay, then bought an expanded bpo... time... effort... that is what Eve is about. Its not about logging in to toss in more runs on a bp and making billions. We were promised if we put in the time and effort to gain more RPS we'd have a better chance. Is that the case here? NO... and its simply wrong to decieve your members that way. CCP is wrong.
Scoundrelus Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:38:00 - [183] GRAB YOUR TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS! =============================================== We are Watching You.
Futuri Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:45:00 - [184] Originally by: Bermag Then there is a chance to win other T2 BPOS which use the same research pool. Lol where's the guarantee that CCP would distribute those BPOs according to the mechanic of the game (R&D) and not once again via some random rabbit-out-of-the-hat method.
Kazuo Ishiguro Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:50:00 - [185] This has actually worked out quite nicely for me- I just accepted a courier mission with a 150m collateral that I wouldn't quite have been able to complete without one. Once I'm done, I can resell it, so no great inconvenience. ---------- Racer in the ISGC Frigate League
Hockston Axe Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.10 23:01:00 - [186] Edited by: Hockston Axe on 10/11/2006 23:03:23 What follows concerns an overlooked aspect of Expanded Cargoholds: IÆm not going to complain that I may have wasted time in a research field I now might not want to be in (nanite eng). IÆm not going to complain that IÆve wasted the last few weeks of my game time to work up standings in another R&D corp to get into another field I now might not want to be in (molecular eng). IÆm not going to complain about the week of wasted skill training to get two now possibly unneeded and unwanted rank 5 skills to level 4. IÆm not going to complain about possibly wasting another week to train two other research skills to level 4. I wonÆt even complain about magical upgrades making the rich a whole lot richer (even if it is just in the short term). IÆll merely just mention these minor injustices. I will however complain about this: you rewarded the rich BPO owners by magically upgrading their T1 to T2, you rewarded Gallente characters who I have no doubt hold the vast majority of Basic BPOÆs since they are available only in Gallente space from two Gallente national extent corps. Who buys a worthless Basic BPO besides a noob? (We were all noobs once, but did you travel halfway across the galaxy to buy a Basic BPO back then? Did you even know how to find out where the Basic BPO sold if it wasnÆt in your area back when you thought a Basic spander BPO was worth buying?) So why did you screw the middleman? (Nothing new about that except it usually doesnÆt happen by the flick of a magic wand.) You upgraded Spander I BPOÆs to Spander II, fine. You upgraded Basic Spander BPOÆs to Spander I BPOÆs, fine. You left Spander I BPCÆs as Spander I BPCÆs. Why? Massive amounts of BPCÆs were sold for these items. In volumes as large as 30,000 units per order. At a price per unit 9 times the build cost of the item, just for the BPC, at the volume discount price. Add another multiple or two of the build cost for smaller BPC orders. So people who had/invested in the Spander BPO made bank off selling the units, made bank off selling huge numbers of BPCs at 9-12 times build cost get an even shinier T2 piggy bank. The people who had Basic BPOÆs can now make at least temporary bank by building Spander IÆs at cost. If the Spander I BPO gets seeded then everyone can make them at cost. The people who invested in BPCÆs are now stuck with a very large stock of units which cost them 10-13 times as much per unit as all these happy new owners of Spander I BPOÆs. I really donÆt know what to say. Where IÆm from the usual response to the perpetrator of such an injustice would and could only be, ôF*** You.ö
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.10 23:49:00 - [187] Originally by: Hockston Axe I really donÆt know what to say. Where IÆm from the usual response to the perpetrator of such an injustice would and could only be, ôF* You.ö No... the words "F* You" are too kind in this case.
Aziza Gallente Immobiliare	Posted - 2006.11.10 23:50:00 - [188] So, still no response from CCP? They probably think that this thread will go away out and everyone will forget about whole issue, right? ------------------------- Thank you
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:00:00 - [189] The basic issue here is extremely dodgy but I bet plenty of people have commented on that. Two particular outrages remain: 1) No announcement - it just happened and people had to find out the hard way. 2) BPOs got upgraded and not BPCs. What hint of sense can this make? On balance I think the old bpos should have been upgraded to long run bpcs of the higher tech and the tech 2 bpos released properly. This method was clearly unfair - but it's hard to see a solution that wouldn't be unfair to somebody so bleugh. But the two points above seem unarguably improper.
Alvara	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:09:00 - [190] All those that are *****ing, I join you. All my bloody research points for 1.5 yrs went to nanite engineering trying to get the CE2 BPO. I bought 1000's of runs of CE1 in case I won the CE2 BPO, since no more CE1 BPO's were seeded. Geez, you even promised last summer to release the CE2 BPO in RMR, but you didn't. Revert those CE2 BPO's back to CE1 BPO's and put CE1's on market. Release the bloody CE2 in the lotto and give those of us who invested in a sad research area a chance at getting what we put all that work into it for.

Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:22:00 - [191] Its good to know our amazing devs are partying it up at Fan Fast while not yet once responding to this issue. We now see their priorities.
Mazza	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:26:00 - [192] Originally by: Grinkur They don't seem to care about the comunity anymore. They don't even see us as customers. They don't understand that this is a game for us and things like this produce frustation and anger. If they don't show respect for the comunity soon this thing is going to fall faster than SWG. Originally by: Alvara All those that are ***ing, I join you. All my bloody research points for 1.5 yrs went to nanite engineering trying to get the CE2 BPO. I bought 1000's of runs of CE1 in case I won the CE2 BPO, since no more CE1 BPO's were seeded. Geez, you even promised last summer to release the CE2 BPO in RMR, but you didn't. Revert those CE2 BPO's back to CE1 BPO's and put CE1's on market. Release the bloody CE2 in the lotto and give those of us who invested in a sad research area a chance at getting what we put all that work into it for. Originally by:** Zhull Game is still the second highest ranked game in MMORPG.com. I suddendly feel the need to express my opininon Guys its time to let CCP know that they can't go on Fú$king us over like this. They misinform they lie and they cheat, as we all know its about the money and their happy that they get it and they just think they can ignore us all so we waste time and money playing their game its time to vote with our feet and wallets. cut their cash they have to listen..........
Hockston Axe Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:32:00 - [193] Originally by: Cabadrin True; though ours was in production so it's bugged. Petition time! A sample petition: Dear GM, my T1 BPO was in production and didnÆt magically upgrade to a T2 BPO. Please upgrade my T1 BPO to a T2 BPO. Thanks. _______________________ Sounds ridiculous doesnÆt it.
Demeck	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:42:00 - [194] sod it..if this game is number 2 rated mmorpg lets all sod off and play the number 1
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:42:00 - [195] Sometimes they just set themselves up for this.
KingKenny	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:44:00 - [196] Originally by: Demeck sod it..if this game is number 2 rated mmorpg lets all sod off and play the number 1 LMFAO
Draca Longen	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:46:00 - [197] Originally by: Mazza Guys its time to let CCP know that they can't go on Fú$king us over like this. They misinform they lie and they cheat, as we all know its about the money and their happy that they get it and they just think they can ignore us all so we waste time and money playing their game its time to vote with our feet and wallets. cut their cash they have to listen.......... I for one have already decided to leave, im voting with the 3 paying accounts I have. This is the last T2 straw for me. Hate the game, not the players.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:48:00 - [198] Originally by: Draca Longen Originally by: Mazza Guys its time to let CCP know that they can't go on Fú$king us over like this. They misinform they lie and they cheat, as we all know its about the money and their happy that they get it and they just think they can ignore us all so we waste time and money playing their game its time to vote with our feet and wallets. cut their cash they have to listen.......... I for one have already decided to leave, im voting with the 3 paying accounts I have. This is the last T2 straw for me. Hate the game, not the players. I'm right behind you... unless I get banned first! Muwahahahaa
Driven Caldari Mass Produced Venturi Starea	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:51:00 - [199] There is a better way than quitting. Boycott their idiotic collector cards. I can't imagine anyone buys them anyways, but it must cost something to make them and convince god knows who to buy them. Its just such a shame that seemingly smart creative people would do something so obviously stupid like this.
Southern Kros	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:06:00 - [200] Autorenew of subs on 3 accounts stopped as from today. I am hoping CCP screwed up, accidents happen and maybe thats what it is. I simply can't imagine they are so ***** stupid to deliberatly do what they have done. However in the past CCP have admitted they made a mistake and have put it right, problem is they are all **ed at the fan fest so it could take a few days for them to realise what they done. However if they have done it on purpose then 3 subs will simply lapse over the next few months. ----------------------------------------- Just a forum alt for a 38mil SP carebear character. Hey, its safer this way.

MindDragon	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:12:00 - [201] Funny, the CCP seems to be taking a page from the American Republican Party. Let the super rich get richer and screw over all those NOOBS that signed on later. This is almost serious enough for me to want to quit the game and to get everyone I know to quit too. I can see people leaving in droves and voting with their pocket books over such a bone head move as to allow the super rich to make another 100 billion dollars while those that worked hard to win the so called lottery over this last year get so utterly and completely screwed over by CCP. Those guys are now all ready to leave. I know at least 40 people that have been working at the lottery. If my survey represents a good 1% of the eve population, then that's about 5,000 people right now ready to bail over the stupidity of CCP at the moment. That's 200k of REAL DOLLARS over trying to allow folks that have made TRILLIONS of ISK make MORE TRILLIONS of ISK. When is CCP going to figure out that they need to make this system far more fair for players? Something like this should be far more rewards based and far less SUPER FILTHY RICH based. Just my $0.00002 (now devalued even more). ------ It's a very old problem. Allow me to explain. Jita has the best commercially available computer hardware in the world and it has its own node. Consider that for a moment. (Credit: Cmdr Sy)
Berry Blue	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:18:00 - [202] I don't see what the problem is. The people who won the CE1 BPO put in the skill training, did the missions, and put in the effort to get them in the T2 lottery. Why should they have that effort and work reduced to nothing? In the market fix,to finally seed all T1 BPO. They get an upgrade to the CE2 BPO, and everyone gets access to a CE1 BPO in Kali. So they get the CE2 BPO which they should have had in the first place had the market been correct, and everyone gets access to a T1 BPO. As has been pointed out before, in Kali everyone who does not have a T2 BPO, can make their own T2 BPC using invention (which uses the T1 BPC last time I checked). So the people who invested in T1 BPC's should be able to get something out of it, and Lord Frost (if he redirects the considerable energy he uses in rabidly spamming this thread) can use his research points to help him get a T2 BPC too.
Sultry Wench	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:19:00 - [203] Originally by: Lord Frost Becuase you are handing over someone who made billions on a rare bpo, another bpo that will indeed make their last billions look like pocket change. The bpos should of been released like they intended too... in the lottery. The same lottery we all whined about and the same lottery they (CCP) stood by... and the same lottery we all trusted and put our hopes into. We all know our chances are slim to none in getting any t2 bpo, but this is just a slap in the face. Little hope became NO hope... and in the end I'd rather have little hope and someone who deserves to make billions be rewared for putting in his time and effort. Not some hack who could of got his few bil from timecards or ebay, then bought an expanded bpo... time... effort... that is what Eve is about. Its not about logging in to toss in more runs on a bp and making billions. We were promised if we put in the time and effort to gain more RPS we'd have a better chance. Is that the case here? NO... and its simply wrong to decieve your members that way. CCP is wrong. I agree with this 100%. I feel ripped off by CCP. I think it was a very short sighted and bad decision.
Fwuffy Wabbit	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:23:00 - [204] I sincerely hope a batch of Expander II bpos will be seeded in the lottery come Kali. That is all.
Sally Va	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:32:00 - [205] I'm not even a industry char, but I do agree this is one of the stupidest things CCP have ever pulled off.
Hockston Axe Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:34:00 - [206] Edited by: Hockston Axe on 11/11/2006 01:35:08 Originally by: Berry Blue I don't see what the problem is. . As has been pointed out before, in Kali everyone who does not have a T2 BPO, can make their own T2 BPC using invention (which uses the T1 BPC last time I checked). So the people who invested in T1 BPC's should be able to get something out of it, and Lord Frost (if he redirects the considerable energy he uses in rabidly spamming this thread) can use his research points to help him get a T2 BPC too. 1. Invention so far looks to be as useful as a two legged donkey. 2. Everyone can make their own BPC from BPO's that started life as a less than 10000 isk Basic BPO, while those with purchased BPC's from when the item was still rare must sacrifice a BPC that cost 5000000 isk a piece. 3. Those who invested in the BPC's did get something... a magic wand inserted far up into...
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:37:00 - [207] Originally by: Berry Blue I don't see what the problem is. The people who won the CE1 BPO put in the skill training, did the missions, and put in the effort to get them in the T2 lottery. Why should they have that effort and work reduced to nothing? In the market fix,to finally seed all T1 BPO. They get an upgrade to the CE2 BPO, and everyone gets access to a CE1 BPO in Kali. So they get the CE2 BPO which they should have had in the first place had the market been correct, and everyone gets access to a T1 BPO. As has been pointed out before, in Kali everyone who does not have a T2 BPO, can make their own T2 BPC using invention (which uses the T1 BPC last time I checked). So the people who invested in T1 BPC's should be able to get something out of it, and Lord Frost (if he redirects the considerable energy he uses in rabidly spamming this thread) can use his research points to help him get a T2 BPC too. We were promised if we put in the time and effort to gain more RPS we'd have a better chance. Is that the case here? NO... and its simply wrong to decieve your members that way. CCP is wrong. Yes, t2 expanders can be researched, in a yet to be proven tactic... where does this lead us now? Many who have t2 worked hard and long for them... so whats to happen when t3 comes out? Are you telling me the t2 owners will whine their t2 wont be profitable anymore? I suppose CCP will just feel bad and hand them all the t3 versions. All good things come to an end... sorry if their bpos would be useless. I'm sure they made plenty already on them. CCP told us to do something and we did. We all expected these bpos to be in the lottery... and now they are not. THAT IS WRONG.
Ekscalybur	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:50:00 - [208] Originally by: Grash Freedom Edited by: Grash Freedom on 10/11/2006 14:20:12 Originally by: Cez Simple... release t1 on market... hand t2 thru lottery, LIKE INTENDED!!!!! No its not simple because people have already spent 5-10 bils for expander I prints and SBA print even before exodus hit the server, its not fair to screw them up ( i have non of those prints btw ) This idea I've seen a few times in this thread. I'm baffled by it, absurdly baffled. How in the hell is it not fair for people who were speculating to not get screwed over? That's the very nature of speculation, huge risk of getting royally screwed out of large sums of money versus the chance of seeing your investment growing nearly exponentially. Its completely fair, not to mention completely expected, for investments requiring a long time to pay out to blow up in your face from time to time. It happens, and IRL, it happens quite a bit. There is nothing wrong with those people getting screwed.
Futuri Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:54:00 - [209] Edited by: Futuri on 11/11/2006 01:54:02
JaffaCake	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:57:00 - [210] I AM EVER SO SORRY! :( http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=417270&page=4#94 ps. for the hard of reading, see last two lines in post.



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