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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Alexis Nightwish
203
   |
Posted - 2015.05.21 18:39:01 -
[151] - Quote
To all of you who say sentries and heavies, being BS class weapons, should not be on these cruiser class hulls, let me tell you I've gone down that road and it leads to nowhere.
CCP Rise wrote:This "Ishtar has bonuses to battleship weapons" line that keeps coming up is interesting. We talked about it some earlier here. There's parts of it that we can agree about but it's also something that makes drones interesting across all drone using/bonused ships. You could use the same argument to say that Dominix's shouldn't get bonuses to light drones or that Vexors shouldn't be able to use lights or heavies or sentries.
We feel that in general it's an interesting and positive part of drone design that they aren't fixed to ship sizes nearly as strictly as other weapon types. We just need to find ways to have balanced ships as well.
I think the best course of action is to address the rediculous bandwidth cruisers have.
Logical progresssion of drone boat bandwidth maximums:
Frigate: 25mb
Destroyer: 40mb
Cruiser: 50mb
Battlecruiser: 100mb
Battleship: 125mb
Current, and fundementally flawed progresssion of drone boat bandwidth maximums:
Frigate: 25mb
Destroyer: 35mb
Cruiser: 125mb
Battlecruiser: 100mb
Battleship: 125mb
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
|
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
465
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 18:43:58 -
[152] - Quote
stop nerfing drones for god sake
the only problem with drones is Ishtar but not sentries , sentries are the only way drones can match guns or missiles because .. of speed and damage application
CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails
.... Open that damn door !!
you shall all bow and pray BoB
|
Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 18:44:39 -
[153] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Why does the double bonus on the problematic hulls are allowed to stay for so damn long on ship that even CCP acknowledge are problematic?
Is there any other weapon where a bonus to application and projection (tracking + optimal) in any form is present on the same bonus slot for a hull?
Looking at other HACs the Munnin gets rate of fire, damage, optimal, and tracking; which from a bonus only comparison is better than the Ishtar's.
Several other HACs get double damage bonuses and double range, some only get one range bonus. The fact that the Ishtar gets one for damage, one for optimal, and one for tracking is not out of line with other HACs. It is the weapon system that makes the bonuses more meaningful. |
punch monke
Spartan Industries
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 18:46:56 -
[154] - Quote
Kinda redicious that why you say your nerfing primarily bounces and curators, you still nerd the gardes range to 1/4 of the actual range. They already like 70% the range or bouncers, 60% the range of curators, and 40% the range or wardens.
After your proposed changes the optimal of gardes will be 50% of bouncers, 43% of curators, and 30% of wardens. Pretty sure the dps of these do not match the optimal ranges. Seems as though it was balanced with the current setup |
Desudes
Adversity.
Northern Coalition.
437
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 18:47:04 -
[155] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Except that you can have all of the above on the Ishtard, with yes, 50% more EHP and project to ranges where Zealot and Eagle are blown into stellar dust, hence they are not employed. Anymore.
I'll update this post with tracking metrics in a sec.
plz link a 120k+ ehp ishtar fit with DLAs in the highs and dmg in the lows.
Most fleet ishtars are going to be 40-65k ehp depending on their range/tracking mods, with 95ish to 115ish drone control range (1 DLA or 2)
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
|
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
Spaceship Bebop
502
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 18:55:51 -
[156] - Quote
Alexhandr Shkarov wrote:I hope one day the Ishtar loses any sentry bonuses, and instead is more tailored to heavy-drone platforms. It retains a lot of the power but no longer the range that sentries can project damage at.
That's called a Rattlesnake, Gila, Worm. Also, the damage multiplier on the Ishtar was already addressed.
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.
|
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
687
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 18:59:17 -
[157] - Quote
Desudes wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Except that you can have all of the above on the Ishtard, with yes, 50% more EHP and project to ranges where Zealot and Eagle are blown into stellar dust, hence they are not employed. Anymore.
I'll update this post with tracking metrics in a sec.
plz link a 120k+ ehp ishtar fit with DLAs in the highs and dmg in the lows.
Where do you get 120k from? A Zealot with a 800mm plate is 40k EHP with 50% more you get 60k for the Ishtar.
Sentry Tracking vs Heavy Beams as promised,
Tracking/Chance to hit AB HAC target: http://i.imgur.com/UV7IoZc.png
DPS: http://i.imgur.com/GzxCLYe.png
Tracking/Chance to hit MWD HAC target: http://i.imgur.com/84VLxdJ.png
DPS: http://i.imgur.com/JgzRSH1.png
Yes, the Zealot has 8.33 effective turrets and the 7.5 sentries - yet it still achieves 25% more DPS.
Balanced game, yo.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
|
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1255
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:01:41 -
[158] - Quote
Who puts 800s on a zealot...wtaf |
Desudes
Adversity.
Northern Coalition.
437
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:03:46 -
[159] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Desudes wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Except that you can have all of the above on the Ishtard, with yes, 50% more EHP and project to ranges where Zealot and Eagle are blown into stellar dust, hence they are not employed. Anymore.
I'll update this post with tracking metrics in a sec.
plz link a 120k+ ehp ishtar fit with DLAs in the highs and dmg in the lows. Where do you get 120k from? A Zealot with a 800mm plate is 40k EHP with 50% more you get 60k for the Ishtar. Sentry Tracking vs Heavy Beams as promised, Tracking/Chance to hit AB HAC target: http://i.imgur.com/UV7IoZc.png
DPS: http://i.imgur.com/GzxCLYe.png
Tracking/Chance to hit MWD HAC target: http://i.imgur.com/84VLxdJ.png
DPS: http://i.imgur.com/JgzRSH1.png
Yes, the Zealot has 8.33 effective turrets and the 7.5 sentries - yet it still achieves 25% more DPS. Balanced game, yo.
Thats why you put a 1600mm plate on it. 84km ehp and 83m sig radius with legion links.
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
|
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
687
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:05:42 -
[160] - Quote
Desudes wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Desudes wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Except that you can have all of the above on the Ishtard, with yes, 50% more EHP and project to ranges where Zealot and Eagle are blown into stellar dust, hence they are not employed. Anymore.
I'll update this post with tracking metrics in a sec.
plz link a 120k+ ehp ishtar fit with DLAs in the highs and dmg in the lows. Where do you get 120k from? A Zealot with a 800mm plate is 40k EHP with 50% more you get 60k for the Ishtar. Sentry Tracking vs Heavy Beams as promised, Tracking/Chance to hit AB HAC target: http://i.imgur.com/UV7IoZc.png
DPS: http://i.imgur.com/GzxCLYe.png
Tracking/Chance to hit MWD HAC target: http://i.imgur.com/84VLxdJ.png
DPS: http://i.imgur.com/JgzRSH1.png
Yes, the Zealot has 8.33 effective turrets and the 7.5 sentries - yet it still achieves 25% more DPS. Balanced game, yo. Thats why you put a 1600mm plate on it. 84km ehp and 83m sig radius with legion links.
And 45% less DPS than the Ishtar, which has the same EHP. 
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
|
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
Spaceship Bebop
502
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:06:30 -
[161] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Who puts 800s on a zealot...wtaf
Posting alts ? 
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.
|
Valterra Craven
545
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:08:21 -
[162] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:To all of you who say sentries and heavies, being BS class weapons, should not be on these cruiser class hulls, let me tell you I've gone down that road and it leads to nowhere. CCP Rise wrote:This "Ishtar has bonuses to battleship weapons" line that keeps coming up is interesting. We talked about it some earlier here. There's parts of it that we can agree about but it's also something that makes drones interesting across all drone using/bonused ships. You could use the same argument to say that Dominix's shouldn't get bonuses to light drones or that Vexors shouldn't be able to use lights or heavies or sentries.
We feel that in general it's an interesting and positive part of drone design that they aren't fixed to ship sizes nearly as strictly as other weapon types. We just need to find ways to have balanced ships as well. I think the best course of action is to address the rediculous bandwidth cruisers have. Logical progresssion of drone boat bandwidth maximums: Frigate: 25mb Destroyer: 40mb Cruiser: 50mb Battlecruiser: 100mb Battleship: 125mb Current, and fundementally flawed progresssion of drone boat bandwidth maximums: Frigate: 25mb Destroyer: 35mb Cruiser: 125mbBattlecruiser: 100mb Battleship: 125mb
But that still doesn't address the ridiculous amount of range the ishtar is able to achieve. Cruisers should NOT be able to shoot that far. |
Desudes
Adversity.
Northern Coalition.
437
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:08:38 -
[163] - Quote
link your ishtar fit that is getting these numbers.
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
|
Valterra Craven
545
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:11:46 -
[164] - Quote
link your
eagle
zealot
cerb
munnin fit. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1814
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:13:27 -
[165] - Quote
Terra Chrall wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Why does the double bonus on the problematic hulls are allowed to stay for so damn long on ship that even CCP acknowledge are problematic?
Is there any other weapon where a bonus to application and projection (tracking + optimal) in any form is present on the same bonus slot for a hull? Looking at other HACs the Munnin gets rate of fire, damage, optimal, and tracking; which from a bonus only comparison is better than the Ishtar's. Several other HACs get double damage bonuses and double range, some only get one range bonus. The fact that the Ishtar gets one for damage, one for optimal, and one for tracking is not out of line with other HACs. It is the weapon system that makes the bonuses more meaningful.
Ishtar sentries gets bonus to damage, optimal, tracking and range. That's 4 bonus just like other HAC gets on top of another bonus specifically targeted at heavy drones.
Drone control range is the same as missile flight time/max velocity. It's a projection bonus especially when it's possible to reach the normal drone control range with your primary weapon system (sentries).
Quad weapon bonus at the cost of 3 bonus slot. Scrap the tracking or optimal which occupy the same slot so it's like other ships. |
Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:13:58 -
[166] - Quote
Desudes wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Terra Chrall wrote:Taram Caldar wrote:Just my opinion but sentries aren't the problem, currently. The problem is the bonuses on the ishtar that push their drone damage, in general, so over and above the damage output of other ships in their peer group...
Ishtar Sentry damage is already in line with ships of their class. This happened the last balance pass on the hull when damage bonus was cut in half from 50% to 25%. They have maximal dps with Heavy Drones which have their own shortcomings. The tracking/optimal bonus of 25% on the Ishtar Sentries and 37.5% on the Domi ones are significant but not out of line with other ranged systems. Let's compare 3 HACs, bonuses only: An Eagle gets: 20% shield resists, 50% optimal, 50% optimal, 25% damage. A Zealot gets a 50% weapon cap use bonus, 25% RoF bonus, 50% optimal bonus, and 25% raw damage bonus. An Ishtar gets 25% drone HP, 25% damage, 25% optimal, and 25% tracking. The Eagle gets 1x tank bonus, 2x range, 1x damage, The Zealot gets 2x damage bonuses and 1x range bonus The Ishtar gets 1x damage, 1x range, and 1x applicaiton. The bonuses are all in line with each other. Still waiting for a Zealot setup that can do 420 dps at 160 km. Eagle can reach that with CN Plutonium at 58+20 km. Quote:It is the weapon system that then makes them stand apart. So just a battleship-sized weapons system.  Apples/oranges comparison. zealot will have half again the ehp of a fleet ishtar, a tiny signature, the zealots dps is where the ship is, not where he drops it, fleet zealots are typically AB brawlers, not shield kiters, even beam zealot has significantly more tracking... 160km drone control range is nigh impossible with any tank due to cpu. 120ish is feasible.
I'm addressing people that have issue with the Ishtar bonuses as being far and above all other HACs. I went through and looked at the the bonuses on all the HACs and the Ishtar bonuses are in line with all the other HACs so it is not a bonuses issue.
That is why you see CCP now adjusting the weapon system and not the one hull. My point is that they are on the right track but it is probably a better solution to create a ranged weapon for drone ships below Battleship class and adjust accordingly.
|
Desudes
Adversity.
Northern Coalition.
437
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:15:30 -
[167] - Quote
been forever since ive run a zealot but from what i remember: http://i.imgur.com/QP1mWJp.png basic fit. mids, ammo, and tank changed around as needed.
Plz show me an ishtar with 50% more tank that is pushing these super dupes range numbers
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
|
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1256
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:16:14 -
[168] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:afkalt wrote:Who puts 800s on a zealot...wtaf Posting alts ?
No, we have our dignity. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1816
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:17:57 -
[169] - Quote
Terra Chrall wrote:
I'm addressing people that have issue with the Ishtar bonuses as being far and above all other HACs. I went through and looked at the the bonuses on all the HACs and the Ishtar bonuses are in line with all the other HACs so it is not a bonuses issue.
That is why you see CCP now adjusting the weapon system and not the one hull. My point is that they are on the right track but it is probably a better solution to create a ranged weapon for drone ships below Battleship class and adjust accordingly.
Too bad out of 3 ship you messed your count on 2 of them... |
Maxi Dap
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:21:21 -
[170] - Quote
The best solution would be to limit the number of ships that can target the same ship, a built in Target Spectrum breaker in to the mechanics of EvE, one that takes drones in to account as well. |
Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
540
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:21:58 -
[171] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Current plan is:
Gardes: -25% Optimal, +33% Falloff, -3% Damage, -6.67% Tracking
Curators: -3.1% Damage, -13% Tracking
Bouncers: -3.3% Damage, -12.5% Tracking
We welcome feedback as always!
I think what you need to do is compare these drones to what they are supposed to be competing with. So for example, is the garde supposed to be competitive with blasters or rails? If blasters, then gardes need high damage, high tracking, low range. If rails, then gardes need moderate damage, low tracking, high range. From there you just compare how many drones a player has and find dps profiles that match ships, So for example a blaster mega compared to a garde wielding domi. Given you keep nuking the optimal of the garde it seems to me you want to compare it to blasters, so why are you still nuking the tracking and damage on it?
Because sentry drones are battleship weapons, and modifying them to behave more like them is a step in the right direction. |
Alexis Nightwish
204
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:22:35 -
[172] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Alexis Nightwish wrote:To all of you who say sentries and heavies, being BS class weapons, should not be on these cruiser class hulls, let me tell you I've gone down that road and it leads to nowhere. CCP Rise wrote:This "Ishtar has bonuses to battleship weapons" line that keeps coming up is interesting. We talked about it some earlier here. There's parts of it that we can agree about but it's also something that makes drones interesting across all drone using/bonused ships. You could use the same argument to say that Dominix's shouldn't get bonuses to light drones or that Vexors shouldn't be able to use lights or heavies or sentries.
We feel that in general it's an interesting and positive part of drone design that they aren't fixed to ship sizes nearly as strictly as other weapon types. We just need to find ways to have balanced ships as well. I think the best course of action is to address the rediculous bandwidth cruisers have. Logical progresssion of drone boat bandwidth maximums: Frigate: 25mb Destroyer: 40mb Cruiser: 50mb Battlecruiser: 100mb Battleship: 125mb Current, and fundementally flawed progresssion of drone boat bandwidth maximums: Frigate: 25mb Destroyer: 35mb Cruiser: 125mbBattlecruiser: 100mb Battleship: 125mb But that still doesn't address the ridiculous amount of range the ishtar is able to achieve. Cruisers should NOT be able to shoot that far.
I personally don't have issue with a cruiser being able to hit that far when it's DPS is <200. And if it is an issue, remove the optimal range bonus too.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
|
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
687
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:23:18 -
[173] - Quote
Desudes wrote:link your ishtar fit
Standard fit,
Quote:[Universal Taggof]
Internal Force Field Array I
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
EM Ward Field II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Without the DLAs, or if you deploy w/ ABs you can fit LSE IIs and get 62k EHP unlinked.
So what of that sentry tracking?
It is a 400 m resolution weapons system, must be bad, right?
Right.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
|
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1816
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:24:17 -
[174] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Alexis Nightwish wrote:To all of you who say sentries and heavies, being BS class weapons, should not be on these cruiser class hulls, let me tell you I've gone down that road and it leads to nowhere. CCP Rise wrote:This "Ishtar has bonuses to battleship weapons" line that keeps coming up is interesting. We talked about it some earlier here. There's parts of it that we can agree about but it's also something that makes drones interesting across all drone using/bonused ships. You could use the same argument to say that Dominix's shouldn't get bonuses to light drones or that Vexors shouldn't be able to use lights or heavies or sentries.
We feel that in general it's an interesting and positive part of drone design that they aren't fixed to ship sizes nearly as strictly as other weapon types. We just need to find ways to have balanced ships as well. I think the best course of action is to address the rediculous bandwidth cruisers have. Logical progresssion of drone boat bandwidth maximums: Frigate: 25mb Destroyer: 40mb Cruiser: 50mb Battlecruiser: 100mb Battleship: 125mb Current, and fundementally flawed progresssion of drone boat bandwidth maximums: Frigate: 25mb Destroyer: 35mb Cruiser: 125mbBattlecruiser: 100mb Battleship: 125mb But that still doesn't address the ridiculous amount of range the ishtar is able to achieve. Cruisers should NOT be able to shoot that far. I personally don't have issue with a cruiser being able to hit that far when it's DPS is <200.
Until a medium sized organisation bring 100 of them and you now deal with 20k dps... |
Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:26:15 -
[175] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Terra Chrall wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Why does the double bonus on the problematic hulls are allowed to stay for so damn long on ship that even CCP acknowledge are problematic?
Is there any other weapon where a bonus to application and projection (tracking + optimal) in any form is present on the same bonus slot for a hull? Looking at other HACs the Munnin gets rate of fire, damage, optimal, and tracking; which from a bonus only comparison is better than the Ishtar's. Several other HACs get double damage bonuses and double range, some only get one range bonus. The fact that the Ishtar gets one for damage, one for optimal, and one for tracking is not out of line with other HACs. It is the weapon system that makes the bonuses more meaningful. Ishtar sentries gets bonus to damage, optimal, tracking and range. That's 4 bonus just like other HAC gets on top of another bonus specifically targeted at heavy drones. Drone control range is the same as missile flight time/max velocity. It's a projection bonus especially when it's possible to reach the normal drone control range with your primary weapon system (sentries). Quad weapon bonus at the cost of 3 bonus slot. Scrap the tracking or optimal which occupy the same slot so it's like other ships.
People keep confusing control range as a range bonus when it is comparable to a targeting computer. It lets you lock farther out and start shooting, but if you are outside falloff you are not going to hit anything. Using a Garde with 50 control range vs one with 120 control range is not going to let the drone hit a target any better.
Yes I missed the control range bonus since I was mainly looking at Sentries wich is what this thread is about. It helps mobile drones but due to travel time and not being as disposable as missiles, it is not really a good comparison to missile flight time/velocity. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1816
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:27:30 -
[176] - Quote
Maxi Dap wrote:The best solution would be to limit the number of ships that can target the same ship, a built in Target Spectrum breaker in to the mechanics of EvE, one that takes drones in to account as well.
Drone being the best counter to logi is a good idea... |
GREYBOBSASS
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:29:04 -
[177] - Quote
one question since i have a deja-vu,
why are you nerfing sentries instead of ishtar?
you basicly trashing all sentry fits on every 125m3 dronebay boat except ishtar and dominix,
same as you did with heavy missile launchers and drakes a couple of years ago, instead of nerfing an overpowered ship you nerfed the weapon system. dont remember using heavy missiles since then well except my tengu which i flown more for the looks and sentiment than its **** performance.
gues on battlehsips its just geckos all the way now and sentries for the two dedicated ships ishtar/domi
im not complaining i just dont get the reasoning behind amount of nerfs. From sales perspective it just looks like the product youre selling is unbalanced and not worth engaing in, then again see player numbers its like half of what it used to be 4 years ago and still you guys telling us eve is growing, dont get me wron i love the game but some changes are just so full of **** i just dont get them |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1817
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:29:39 -
[178] - Quote
Terra Chrall wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Terra Chrall wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Why does the double bonus on the problematic hulls are allowed to stay for so damn long on ship that even CCP acknowledge are problematic?
Is there any other weapon where a bonus to application and projection (tracking + optimal) in any form is present on the same bonus slot for a hull? Looking at other HACs the Munnin gets rate of fire, damage, optimal, and tracking; which from a bonus only comparison is better than the Ishtar's. Several other HACs get double damage bonuses and double range, some only get one range bonus. The fact that the Ishtar gets one for damage, one for optimal, and one for tracking is not out of line with other HACs. It is the weapon system that makes the bonuses more meaningful. Ishtar sentries gets bonus to damage, optimal, tracking and range. That's 4 bonus just like other HAC gets on top of another bonus specifically targeted at heavy drones. Drone control range is the same as missile flight time/max velocity. It's a projection bonus especially when it's possible to reach the normal drone control range with your primary weapon system (sentries). Quad weapon bonus at the cost of 3 bonus slot. Scrap the tracking or optimal which occupy the same slot so it's like other ships. People keep confusing control range as a range bonus when it is comparable to a targeting computer. It lets you lock farther out and start shooting, but if you are outside falloff you are not going to hit anything. Using a Garde with 50 control range vs one with 120 control range is not going to let the drone hit a target any better. Yes I missed the control range bonus since I was mainly looking at Sentries wich is what this thread is about. It helps mobile drones but due to travel time and not being as disposable as missiles, it is not really a good comparison to missile flight time/velocity.
The sentries range cap out much shorter if not for this projection bonus. This is why it needs to be counted as projection. Normal drone boat range cap out much closer to ishtar because of that. If you don't see it as a projection bonus, you are delusional. People fit DLAs to their but a bonus to drone range does not count because :reasons:... |
Vandarra Deneroth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:31:32 -
[179] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Current plan is:
Gardes: -25% Optimal, +33% Falloff, -3% Damage, -6.67% Tracking
Curators: -3.1% Damage, -13% Tracking
Bouncers: -3.3% Damage, -12.5% Tracking
We welcome feedback as always!
While these changes are all good dealing with the Domi and Archon meta's what also needs to be done is to increase the bandwidth of sentrey drones so Ishtar's simply cant use them.
Give the Navy Vexor the sentry role bonus - at least they dont rock T2 resists. |
Desudes
Adversity.
Northern Coalition.
437
|
Posted - 2015.05.21 19:31:44 -
[180] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Desudes wrote:link your ishtar fit Standard fit, Quote:[Universal Taggof]
Internal Force Field Array I
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
EM Ward Field II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Without the DLAs, or if you deploy w/ ABs you can fit LSE IIs and get 62k EHP unlinked. So what of that sentry tracking? It is a 400 m resolution weapons system, must be bad, right? Right.
Without DLAs, you'll be staying within dps range. You lose that race against AB zealots. Without mwd, you'll be kept in brawling range of zealots, so you'll lose that race even faster. Plz bring an ishtar fleet with these tactics on down to provi, I like fragging ishtars.
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
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